Latest / The Overland Journal Podcast / Principles of Overlanding: Traveling the PanAmerican Highway on a budget

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Principles of Overlanding: Traveling the PanAmerican Highway on a budget · The Overland Journal Podcast

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Overlandural podcast. I'm your host
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Scott Brady. I'm joined today by my co host Matt Scott.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Now for today's episode, we go into the principles of
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: overlanding driving the Pan American and the goal of this
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: particular conversation is to really talk through how you do
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: a trip like the Pan American, which is nearly twenty
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: thousand miles, How do you do it on a budget,
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: how do you do it in a reasonable amount of time,
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: or how do you minimize your cost per day for
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: a trip like this. We really want to start to
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: discuss the opportunities that are around traveling less expensive, ways
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: to cut costs, the kinds of vehicles you want to
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: use for the trip, the places you should consider going,
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: and overall how to reduce the expenses for doing the
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: entire Pan American. So please enjoy this conversation with Matt
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: Scott and a special thanks to on x for their
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: support of this week's podcast. Going further on your adventures
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: is about having the right tools. The on x off
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: road apps Intuitive maps make it easy to find trails
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: and disperse camping, and their offline maps give you full
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: GPS navigation capabilities even without cell coverage. Personally, I use
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: on X for every trip in North America because I
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: always know who owns or manages the land that I'm
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: traveling on. On my most recent trip, I use the
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: on X to find trails near where I was staying
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: in Joshua Tree. I use the difficulty rating and the
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: elevation to determine which trails are best suited to the
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: vehicle and the weather. Thanks again, on X for your
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: support of the Ovalangeural podcast. All right, Matt, Well, this
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: is an exciting one for us to go through here.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: I mean, we do have a lot of variety on
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: the show, and some times things can get pretty expensive,
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: like yeah, vehicle.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: I think if I was to critique myself, I would
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: say that I probably focus on the expensive stuff too much.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: We're talking about how to do the Pan American Highway
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: in its entirety for under twenty five thousand US dollars,
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: including buying a car.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: And Matt, you know your your overland vehicles have not
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: always had a wine wreck. I remember even when you
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: first started working with Expedition Portal, I mean you had
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: just come off of an eighty series that you bought. Yeah,
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: you know with all the pendents from Panama running a hospital.
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: That's right, Yeah, that's right.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: I mean I definitely did travel cheap. Like I remember
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: having like this Pelican case that had everything I needed,
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: a little jet boil, I had my Nemo tent, my
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: sleeping pad, like everything that I would need to be
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: like self sufficient, and I would just like bum rides
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: off of people, get a plane and go.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: That's awesome. I think back too, when I first became
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: an adult. I went into the military, and I remember
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: remember my salary as when I was an E four,
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: but it was like nine hundred and sixty dollars a month. Yeah,
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: I did a lot of sleeping in the back of
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: my vehicles. I look back on it too, and you've
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: mentioned this, and this is part of the reason why
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: I think it's so important for us to cover it.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: But I remember Laura and you telling me how that
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: trip that you guys did around Australia in an old
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: seventy series that you saved your money for and you
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: were doing a lot of camping because you were on
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: a tight budget, those are some of the best times
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: of your life. Yeah, it was great.
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: I mean I've never really there's folks that will travel
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: and they keep spreadsheets of what they're saving it to
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: really dial it in. I've always tried to have some
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: kind of income coming in.
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: While I travel.
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: Sure when I was younger, being a full time writer
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: photographer in this space, doing the trips generated some money.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: For me and new content.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: Being in the remote places of the world was really
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: cheap because you always have to feed yourself. And then
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: the slower you travel, the slower you drive, the less
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  Speaker 2: expensive the vehicle aspect comes. As far as fuel.
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: There are people who travel full time and they travel
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: very slow, which is how they keep their expenses down.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: And then there are other people who travel very They
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: travel actively, but they travel cheaply. So the one that
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: comes to mind for me is on the first example
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: would be like the bells. So the bells were able
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: to cause we've talked about this on the podcast before,
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: but they traveled on about two thousand dollars a month,
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: and that was for a family of four in a
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  Speaker 1: land Rover, and they camped out in the vehicle essentially
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: every night. I remember when they first came to the
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: United States, so this would have been probably twenty sixteen
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: or so. Somewhere around there twenty fifteen. They actually stayed
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: with me at my house for the very first night
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: that they had in America on their way up through
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: the Americas, and they had told me that they had
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: not slept outside of the roof tent in almost sixty nights.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: So that is that's an incredible amount of discipline to
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: keep their expenses down. Another one that comes to mind,
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: and I've used this as an example several times, is
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: Stefano Melgrotti, good friend of mine, Italian. He's an architect.
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: He works really really hard, he saves his money, and
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: then he goes off and he sees the world. And
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: when I first met him, it was in Baja and
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: he had just completed riding across Europe, writing the length
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: of Africa and then coming up the entire length of
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: the Americas. And I bumped into him in Baja, and
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: since then I've talked to him about his trip. He's
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: even been on the podcast. And his daily budget averaged
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: out to be twenty two dollars a day.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a significant effort.
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  Speaker 1: So he had a WR two point fifty, which is
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: the Yamaha fuel in Jat did kind of long travel,
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: but it gets incredibly good gasmology. He would get like
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: seventy plus sometimes eighty miles of the gallon with you know,
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: some gear on there, and he would camp out almost
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: every single night. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: I think one of the things I really want to
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: stress for this podcast is that the twenty five k
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: it's a guideline, not a rule. It can be done,
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  Speaker 2: but it would require sacrifice. You're not staying at the
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: Hilton every night, You're not going out to eat every night.
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: You are driving the speed limit because that is going
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: to make a difference, the difference between twenty five miles
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: to the gallon and twenty three and it actually affects
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: your budget on this. So I think that if you
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: have the value mindset, it can be done.
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: But although in some ways it is because the experiences
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: are so rich. I think about like Stefano telling me
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: the number of people who invite him into their home
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: because they would see him trying to set up a
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: little tent on the side of the road and they'd
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: be like, come stay with us. And the experiences that
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: he had even in Sudan, and the generosity of people,
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: I do think it's really important to make sure you're
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: not taking advantage of families, because there are some travelers
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: that have done that.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: People like I've traveled done two dollars a day through whatever,
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: and you know, you do kind of wonder that they
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: go back to their apartment in London.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, they just kind of make the effort,
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: make the effort. It is important to remember, Like I
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: know for myself, when I get the chance to host
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: a traveler, it's so rewarding for me. It brings me
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: so much joy, and it's the same for some family
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: in another country having a visitor.
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: It's it's important to build up those travel karma credits.
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: So let's go through your start. I want to start
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: with the vehicle. Yeah, let's do that.
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  Speaker 2: So Scott and I kind of went through this and
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  Speaker 2: we're like, okay, fuel economy is really paramount on this adventure.
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  Speaker 2: This is not a trip that it's going to be
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  Speaker 2: done in a lifted four wheel drive yep.
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  Speaker 1: Like it just can't be done.
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  Speaker 2: I mean you would double your fuel expenditure by taking
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: something like a Forerunner with a rooftop tent. You can't
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: really even do a rooftop tent, to be honest, Like
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  Speaker 2: that is a pretty significant dock in fuel economy. So
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: we started looking at wagons and.
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  Speaker 1: Expense of the car to begin with, like, look at
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: a two thousand and one forour runner, Like they're expensive exactly.
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  Speaker 1: So my mind first went to the Subaru Outback, which
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: is a good choice. It's all wheel drive, it's pretty long,
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  Speaker 1: you can easily sleep inside, and with all of these
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: wagons that I'm talking about, the sleeping system is plywooden
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: and two by four is that you're getting from a buddy, Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: and that can be done. You can just throw a
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: mattress in the back. Take the mattress from your house
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: and throw it in the back.
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: Yep, you're done. You're actually gonna be pretty comfortable. The
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: superrews are kind of interesting because they actually have a
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: lot of ground clearance. For this, you're going to want
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: to make sure that you're leaving with your tires in
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  Speaker 2: good condition and that the vehicles and relatively good service.
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: But we've budgeted seventy five hundred dollars for a vehicle,
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  Speaker 2: so that is like squarely.
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: And like the outback, maybe a cross track.
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  Speaker 2: But for the romance of it, we're going to talk
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  Speaker 2: about the W one two three Mercedes station.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: Wagon, which I love because it's just.
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: A little classier, it's a little more fun. These things
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: are built like brick shit houses. They are you can
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: get parts from them. I mean they are verging on
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: a classic car.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: And they were sold in all of these countries. I mean,
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: if you go to Northern Africa, these cars are everywhere.
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: So while we're going to talk about this W one
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: two three Mercedes, just know that if a classic car
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: isn't really your scene, take a look at like a
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: super outback across track, something that you can sleep inside
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  Speaker 2: that gets really good fuel economy.
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: Over the length of six months of driving.
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  Speaker 2: And you know the other thing that I'll give to
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: the outback and just the subers in general, is parts
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: are cheaper. If something does break.
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  Speaker 1: They're sold everywhere as well.
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  Speaker 2: They get a little bit better fuel economy than the
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: W one two three, and then they run on gasoline,
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: which is oftentimes cheaper than diesel.
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: And they also are fairly capable. I mean most roads
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: eight inches of ground clearance.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: Maybe the Suberu is for you, because the Mercedes is
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: not all we'll drive.
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the new two point fifty land Cruiser has the
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: same ground clearance as a cross treck, so Honestly, my
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: wife drives a cross Trek and yeah, they're rad little cars.
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: It works, so totally.
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: We allocated seventy five hundred dollars for a W one
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: two three from looking whether we were looking on like
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: cars and bids. There are collector versions of these, but
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: this is a budget trip.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: You're looking for something that has faded paint, that maybe
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: has a crack in the seats or whatever.
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: That means.
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: It's not going to be a collector car. You want
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: something that has been maintained because it's all like that
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: maintenance that somebody has done to a vehicle doesn't necessarily
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: add value. Yes, so I would not even be looking
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: at these auction sites. I would not be looking at
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: a dealership. I would be looking on Facebook, Marketplace, and
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: I would look at several of them because this is
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: going to be your lifeline. So you can get these
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: things for between five and seventy five hundred dollars. To
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: be a little generous, we just put seventy five hundred
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: on this because that will allow you to change the belts,
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: get a couple air.
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: Filters, get the fluids changed, all the fluids.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: You don't really want to be doing this when you're there,
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: you're going to have to change the oil while you're traveling,
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: but that should really.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: Be about it. If you buy the right one.
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: These cars can run for half a million miles totally.
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: So if you see one that has one hundred and
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: fifty that's low two hundred, two hundred and fifty, I
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: would not be concerned.
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: Especially if it's like if you find those single owner
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: cars are the ones that have really been cared for.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: Like I mean, I remember when I was in software.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: The vehicle that I drove was a W one two three.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: They had had it at the at the software company.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: They brought me on board. They wanted to give me this,
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: like I Paula knew, and Paula and I was like, hey,
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: what about that old Mercedes over there? So like the
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: everybody won, like I got to drive something quirky and
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: the and the manager got to drive the brand new car.
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: But what was so funny about it is it had
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: about two hundred and eighty thousand miles on the clock.
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: And I said, how many is this accurate? He's like,
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: oh no, that that odometer broke ten years ago. So
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: like we had no idea how many miles were on
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: that car, and it just continued to drive, and I
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: would drive it from Arizona to southern California and back.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: I mean, it was great. The only things there's a
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: couple things that come to mind. You know, the rear suspension.
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: It is independent in the rear, which actually it does
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: a lot of good for you, but if it's not
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: been maintained, it can get expensive. Like all of those
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: links and bushings and all that other stuff. You want
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: to make sure that that's been done. A limited slip
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: in there, and that could be something that could add
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: kind of a little bit of backroad traction. Go with
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: a little bit larger diameter tire. They had fourteen inch
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: wheels on them, so they actually had fairly decent floatation,
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: So don't be afraid to air them down. Make sure
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: you got an air compressor with you in a tire
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: repair kit. The other thing that becomes problematic is the
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: vacuum locking system on these cars. So like, spend the
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: time to understand how that system works, work on it,
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: and then be a little bit more vigilant, like when
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: you're traveling with a W one two three, because you
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: turn the key in the door and like you see
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: the lock go down, but did all of the locks
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: go down? So make sure the car is actually locking
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: itself properly. I also like.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: On these they're just they're just pretty low key, super much.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: I mean, honestly even with the Subaru too, They're just
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: not going to gather a lot of attention none. You know,
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: we had talked about doing a roof box, but you know,
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: like that's an option. A ton of people, got a
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: ton of people that want to Anyone that does raise
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: concerns with security and what's in there. But if you're
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: keeping but that's what the sleeping platform comes in.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: Because if you like, for example, if you get a
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: wagon version, then you build it up a little bit.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: You can have some simple boxes that you slide underneath,
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: and all people see when they look inside is some
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: homeless persons like bedding. You know, there is just not
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: going to make it a priority.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: Think for me, I'm not saying it hinges on a wagon,
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: but it's just the ability to be able to sleep
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: inside sucking. You're kind of safe, you're secure, you're comfortable.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: You know, it's easy. There are also things like old
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: rav fours and crvs you can look at, depending on
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: your heype you might be able to sleep in those,
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: but I think that you'll be a little more comfortable
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: with the wagon. So twenty five thousand miles is what
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: we're kind of allocating. So the Pan American Highway is
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: about nineteen thousand miles, we're allocating twenty five and that's
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: to get up to Alaska. That's like some side trips
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: and all of that. So that's forty thousand kilometers. We're
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: allocating twenty five miles to the gallon, that's one thousand
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: gallons of fuel thirty eight hundred liters. That's about four
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: grand you're going to spend on fuel, because we're allocating
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: four dollars a gallon for fuel. In some countries, it
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: may be higher. In some countries it may be lower.
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: But four is the number that I'm at least using
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: in my planning, and when I look at what things cost,
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: that seems to be roughly the average.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: Would be the thing that can be a budget buster,
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: like if something happens, like a war in the Middle
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: East or whatever. Fuel prices can really be effected in
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: these countries. But for the most part, you're looking in
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: that four to four and a half dollars a gallon
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: range when you're going through the America.
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: So yeah, and I think that if you're on a
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: budget and this is all you have, if you have
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: access to credit, you can get a credit card. I'm
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: not saying go in credit card debt for this, but
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: the things that you can pay for on the credit
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: card do so they have the fuel on the credit card.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: Preserve your cash, you know, high yield savings account. I'm
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: not a financial advisor, but a high yield savings account
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: is pretty passive. You can usually pull money in and
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: out of those. If you have investments in money markets
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: sometimes depending on the interest rates, can be a good
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: thing and you can actually stretch that money a little
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: bit more like keep you know, there's sacrifice to do
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: it on this budget, but it can be done. So
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: you have to be financially savvy.
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: If you look at it. Sometimes people have saved their
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: whole life. They're in their fifties or whatever, and maybe
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: they've got one hundred and twenty grand in their investments.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: That isn't their retirement. Like if you've got one hundred
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: and twenty grand in the bank and you're in something
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: like SPYI or some kind of higher yielding ETF, then
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: you can cover most of these or at least half
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: of this expense just off of the income. Yeah.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: I mean not everybody's going to be in that position,
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: but if you are, you could probably do this and
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: not necessarily like really set yourself back.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: It cash flows enough to afford full time travel at
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: this kind of travel.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: I think that stuff like relevant for people later in life,
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: like I in my mind, which is me, the person
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: that's doing this, Like I'm thinking of like twenty two
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: year old.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: Matt, Yeah, trying to do this trip. You twenty two
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: year old Scotts no mine zero.
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: Maybe a little bit of credit card to dead isn't bad,
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: But you know, figure that out later because in a
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: lot of these places, you know, bank transfers are going
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: to be more the standard of doing businessp or it's
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: going to be a cash economy. So you're going to
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: you know, you don't want to get to the end
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: of the trip or the middle or wherever and all
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: of a sudden like oh, you've got to ship your
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: car home or sell.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: Your car, or you have an unexpected canical expense.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: That probably not going to be able to put the
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: repair from a local mechanic in Honduras.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: On a credit card. That's right.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: So that's where I'm saying, preserve the cash. If you
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: have the option, put it on the card. The other
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: big expense for this is going to be the shipping
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: from Panama to Colombia.
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: There's no way around it. You cannot drive it. There's
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: not a ferry scenario.
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: I reached out to Overland Embassy and just this morning
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: they got me a quote for a shared container. It's
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: two thousand to ship from Panama to Columbia. I would
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: have to also add on there that there's going to
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: be some ancillary expenses. You're losing your place to stay, yep.
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: You're going to have to stay in a hotel, and
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: this budget, you're staying at a hostel. Maybe look at
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: a private room. But hostiles are also really cool because
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: you may be able to find other travelers that are
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: willing to go with you for sections and share some
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: mixed fences rather than them spending money on a bus
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: ticket in Central America or South America or a plane ticket.
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: Maybe they'll split the gas with you.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: Yep, right, and.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: Then maybe that's somebody that you could share a hotel
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: room with. You have to be you know, crafty with
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: these things, and it's very common. You're going to notice
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: as you do this trip that there's kind of a
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: well worn path of the Pan American Highway for these travelers.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: And a lot of times at these places you're also
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: kind of getting like the backpacker crowd, you know, like
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: I don't think actually like Americans necessarily backpack that route,
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: but it's very common with Europeans.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: Israelis you see a lot of them.
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: So you know, by like, those hostels are going to
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: be a lifeline for you because you're going to have
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: other people who are also on a budget. Oftentimes they
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: have kitchens where you can cook your own food and
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: they'll have things like soy sauce, catchup, you know, your
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: seasonings whatever that you know, then you're just buying your
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: protein and your vegetable or whatever. But you know, the
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: motorcycle thing, I'd like to kind of transition because it's
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: nine hundred fifty dollars to air freight a motorcycle with
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: overland embassy across the Darien Gap, so that's less than
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: half the price.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: And there is the guy that does the sailboat.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: Thing or be the stall rot and then and.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: He was only like three four hundred bucks for the bike.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: Maybe you do spend the money on the sailboat. Thinks
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: that is a route that you do. Usually they'll either
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: going to Cartana or they're going to Turbo, and they'll
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: always kind of leave out of Cologne. They'll stop in
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: the Sandballs Islands, which is really cool. Again, you know
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: you're going to be with like minded people that are
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: traveling on a budget, and like, what a cool experience.
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: You're not saying at the airport Hilton while you're waiting
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: for your flight. So all of that, between the gas,
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: the vehicle, the shared container, and the budget for the
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: vehicle at seventy five, that's just under fourteen grand thirteen
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: seven nine five. Obviously this is not a it's a guideline,
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: not a rule, but that leaves about eleven thousand dollars
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: left over for your day to day expenses. We then figured, okay, like,
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: but is a realistic daily expenditure for this trip that
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: includes things like fuel, food, you're trying to economize, and
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: your lodging as much as possible. So that's sixty dollars
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: a day, and you have one hundred and eighty days
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: to do the trip. Like that's great, but you know,
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: time is money literally when you're not working and you're traveling, and.
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: It's that important distinction between traveling and being homeless. You know,
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: like there are people who that is where they live
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: is on the road, so they can travel at a
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: much slower pace, whereas you think about someone who is
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: maybe in a gap year or you know, they just
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: graduated from college and they want to go see the
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: they do have a bit of a backstop on time. Yeah.
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: And you know the other thing with this trip when
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: we start talking about that one hundred and eighty days,
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: this is assuming the Pan American Highway in its entirety,
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: which is dead Horse Alaska on the Arctic Ocean to
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: Tier de Fuego.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right to Ushuaia.
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: If you're young and you're on a budget, don't do Alaska.
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: Skip it. Like you know, you're going to.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: Be in the campground with wealthy retirees that you know
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: they're going to do it, and they're going to tell
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: you it's great. Yeah, it's cool, but it's also really expensive.
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: There's not a lot of service providers, it has a
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: very limited window of travel. It's very expensive. I would
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: do that in a class A motor home when I
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: was near retired.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because that's true.
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's the majority of the people that you
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: meet on that trip. You know, you have your European overlanders,
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: you do have you know, kind of your American overlanders
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: that are going up there, younger people that are doing
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: the whole thing. But you know, sometimes people think it's
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: a badge of honor to be like, I did it
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: all at once, and you'll do it eventually. I mean,
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: you just make that a future trip. Fuel is more
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: expensive there, You're housing is more expensive there. You're going
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: to be so driven crazy by bugs that you're going
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: to spending money on a hotel, like you know, you're
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: going to be in Alaska where you're competing with people
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: on oil wages. It's maybe not where I would spend
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: my money. And what that does for you is that
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: cuts down on your fuel budget. Yeah, and then you
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: think of all those days of sixty dollars that you
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: can either spend more and you know, if that's roughly
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: forty percent of the trip, well you could spend forty
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: percent more per.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: Day and go for fewer days.
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: Realistically, one hundred and eighty days to go from like
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: the border of America to Ushuaia. I mean, that's that's
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: enough time to really.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: Not or shit or you just take the one hundred
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: and eighty days and you get to slow down a
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: little bit. Just from having done Central America and South
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: America myself, Central America was wonderful. I didn't feel like
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: it required a whole lot of time, Like I took
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: about two months. I did not drive back. I shipped
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: back from Panama. That six to eight weeks is about
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: all you need to spend in Central America and then
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: really allocate the time to South America.
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: And there's countries to be cheaper that you're going to
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: have to consider. Costa Rica is effectively the same price
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: as America's things.
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's expensive, maybe not.
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: America post inflation, but it's it's the most expensive in
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: that region. Panama is pretty expensive as well, especially Panama,
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: so their currency is paired to the US dollar. But
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: places like Guatemala, Nicaragua, I mean, even like there's places
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: in Honduras that are pretty interesting.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: And great little camp spots like That's one thing that
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: is nice about the pan America is it's so well
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: established that you can find like little overlander camps. Pretty
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: much the whole way, or a hotel that'll be willing
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: to let you camp out in the parking lot and
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: have access to a shower for five bucks. You have
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: to be thrifty, spread out your money.
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: I think twenty five thousand is about the absolute bare
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: minimum you need to do this trip, including a vehicle
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: if you already have a vehicle.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: That changes things yep, and a special thanks to Real
• 24:54
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• 25:33
  Speaker 2: You still may want to look at something that gets
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: better fuel economy, because if you have a Forerunner, let's say,
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: and it's paid for, that's great, but maybe it's getting
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: you know, what does a fifth gen four Runner get
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: once you do the typical overland guy stuff to it?
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: Ten twelve Yeah, yeah, and you know I always and
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: maybe this is more general advice, but my wife and
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: I have always traveled under the concept of do the
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: hard stuff and the furthest stuff first in your life.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: So you know places like, you know, there's a lot
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: to see in Mexico, there's a lot to see in
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: Costa Rica, but those places are actually pretty easy to
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: get back to later in life. Spend the time in Columbia,
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: spend the time in Perus, total time in totally you know,
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: crera stral like, do that stuff and allocate more time
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: there because not only are you on a budget with
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: your finances, you are inherently then on a budget with
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: your time.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: So yeah, like it.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: It's funny though, Like it can be done, and.
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: It's impressively cheap if you just stay away from like
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: if you're trying to travel, if you're trying to first
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: world travel in the third world country, it gets very
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: expensive if you're just willing to stay in And there's
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: nothing wrong with these places. I've stayed in lots of
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: these hotels and motels, like in South America, for example,
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: and they can be like eighty bucks a night. Yeah,
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: they can be fourteen bucks a night. You just don't
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: if you stay at the one that gets the best
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: Yelp review and they say like their cappuccinos are amazing,
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: Like you're gonna spend one hundred bucks a night on that? Yeah, exactly.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: Those conveniences do come at a cost.
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: I like this concept because a lot of people have
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: a twenty five thousand dollars budget outfit their vehicle.
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: To do this trip.
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah right, I mean you don't really realize. You're like, oh,
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: the fuel for that trip would be so expensive, and
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: then you realize that's the cost of a good roof tent.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: Four thousand dollars is what? Oh yeah, a good roof tent.
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: Cost fancy long travel suspension.
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you can blow that on King coilovers or I
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: mean you can spend you can spend your shipping budget
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: onlike Baha designs lights.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: Yep, no one cares the money. Then of course, get
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: all the cool stuff and do it in a fancy car.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: But like I took the lights off of my earth
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: Rommer because I'm always drinking beer at night, not driving,
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: I'm jimping any and in a lot of these places
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: you really shouldn't be driving at.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: Night as well. You really do want to avoid it.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: Time have been pulled over in Mexico by the Federals.
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah was, I mean I was.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: I was like.
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: Fifteen miles south of San Felipe, driving at night, trying
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: to make it to Pete's Beach camp, and then like
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: all of a sudden, like a cop pulls out and
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I mean there's not even a house for miles, right, Yeah,
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: And you typically have to have the covers on them
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: in these countries because you're not allowed to have those
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: kind of driving lights, so then you're stopping and getting out.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: I mean, just go with maybe upgrade your fog lights
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: that are in the bumper so nobody really sees them.
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: It's going to be enough. But again, like that's where
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: the wagon really comes into this. I almost just don't
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: see how it could be done outside of like a car. Yeah,
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: it's because it really is that fuel economy and the
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: ability to sleep inside easily.
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: But you had some good examples, like rab fours are
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: very inexpensive, they're incredibly reliable. You know, there's a woman
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: that was in her eighties that drove the length of
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: Africa in a all wheel drive Toyota Tercell and it
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: was a wagon. She's slept inside of it and had
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: all of her gear in there. She was in her
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: eighties and just drove the entire length of Africa.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: I'm Honda Odyssey, Toyota Siena.
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: I think we got to draw the line at the minivan.
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: But like, think about it, a mini van is so practical, right,
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: I mean, one, they're actually nice to drive, they have
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: a good driving position. They generally have that sliding door. Yeah,
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: they depreciate faster than like cash lid on fire.
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: You could put a.
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: Little fridge with a goal zero yeah, yeah, and fridges
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: are something that I would personally spend the money on.
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: I don't know these days, if you need to buy
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: it's a very expensive fridge.
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: They've definitely come down.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: And we're trying to have really good luck with like
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: the cheap Amazon ones. I mean we're talking budget here.
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: It might break and then you're screwed. You just go
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: back to like, yeah, canned meals instead at the to
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: save food, you know, leftovers, Yeah, for sure, Like that's big,
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: Like oftentimes you know your dinner can be your lunch
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: the next days.
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: No, you're right, I'm going to admit that a van
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: would probably be like the most comfortable way to do
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: it it just like but then for the rest of
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: your life. That is the You're like, hey, this is
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: my cool trip to This is me and Ushuaia with
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: my Sienna video Menia.
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: But do you remember Zach's minivan Pack Dennison that used
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: to he had a lifted Toyota Sienna A wheel drive. Yeah,
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: he wheeled the pistol.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: He did not care.
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: He literally I mean, you can get one of these
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: things for like twenty five hundred three thousand dollars. Maybe
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: not like a Toyota Sienna O wheel drive, but like
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: I mean, no, you're not wrong.
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: I mean you're getting.
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: You know, eighty percent of the room of a sprinter
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: for twenty percent of the price. Yeah, maybe even less,
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: and you're gonna.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: Be able to sit up in it. So go in
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: the old Mercedes. The one thing that you don't want
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: to try to be super saveror on is the shipping
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: between Panama and Columbia. You want to get a customs
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: broker on both ends of the transaction. The theme in
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: all of the years that I've been doing this when
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: people talk about their trips is going it's like the
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: people that try to save you know, one hundred and
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: eighty bucks and they try to do everything themselves, and
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: they're going back and forth, you know, to the police
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: station and they're doing that, and the next thing you know,
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: you're in a hotel for four or five six nights
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: and you're eating out every meal and you're in a
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: big city, like you can smoke any savings. So there
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: are a reason why customs brokers are ubiqerous around over
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: abous and their reputation matters to them.
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: I was down in Panama and we were doing with
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: Christian the Panama Passage, which just kind of the precursor.
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, you know to this.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: It was like a hostel. You could stay there. People
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: could kind of joined together.
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: Uh. I think I had an eighty series sitting there.
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, don't don't step over dollars to save dimes like
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: that's I can't tell you, like how many people like
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: you know, we had like a broker that we worked with,
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: I be his name was like Bruno or something, and
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: people would be like, no, I'm not using this broker,
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: he's more expensive, and.
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: Then they'd be there for like two weeks like don't
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: do it. Figure it out. And it can be the
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: day that you like most people aren't going to speak
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: the local language. They're not going to have local contacts.
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: These customs brokers it's their job to make the process.
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: And there's people who get so possessive over their vehicles
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: that they like won't let the they'll try to not
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: let the port drive them, and then they like have
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: to go to the port and then that to get
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: clearance for the like like like nobody nobody wants your ships.
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: It's true. I mean it's true.
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: If you're driving a nine to eighteen spider across the
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: Pan American Highway. Yeah, maybe like.
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: Maybe there's you're going to air freate it.
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: Maybe there's certain things that I would do air free
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: if I had an expedition truck.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: But yeah, air freight.
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: Like I kind of want to I want to go
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: switch to the motorcycles things because a while ago we
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: priced out taking two bikes down the PanAm My wife
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: there's she's a better rider than me, so there's no
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: way that she's going to ride on the back or
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: I'm going to ride on the back. We were at
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: a stalemate. We had to have two bikes, and I
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: like expensive bikes. So anyways, you do have to like
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: bikes do have different maintenance requirements.
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: Chains aren't cheap these days, Tires don't last as long,
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: you know, particularly if you're going to do kind of
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: a dual sport altering tire like, those are things that
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: you do have to factor in. And I just don't
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: see any way around it that you're going to end
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: up spending like your your accommodation budget, which we're kind
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: of taking out of this this per diem, it's gonna.
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: Be higher unless you travel like Steffano and he had
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: a little tent and he spent twenty something nights a
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: month in his tent and that's how he got down
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: to like twenty two bucks a day. Man. He said,
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: it was challenging, But aren't we supposed to do hard things.
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: I know, if you were.
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: On principle trying to stick to a budget, but you
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: still have that credit limit or you've got some money
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: tucked away. When you ride two hundred, three hundred and
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: four hundred miles a day and you're like out in
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: the environment, you're in the elements, there's gonna be days
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: where you're just gonna tap out and you're gonna go.
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: For the hotel. And it depends on the person. Yeah,
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: I mean Stefano enjoys the challenge of it. He would
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: eat once a day. It's got very thin. It's kind
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: of like an ultram mindset, like he just like really
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: focused on like the experience to him and the cultural
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: interactions was more important than anything else. So he made
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: all of these other sacrifices to be able to ride
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: around the world and pretty amazing. Yeah, I mean, your
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: fuel gets cut.
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: I mean, jeez, these days, a motorcycle that gets fifty
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: miles to the gallon is inefficient. You know, you can
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: get motorcycles that are comfortably in the smaller bikes that
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: are in the seventy five miles of the gallon range
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: all day long. You can for seventy five hundred bucks,
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: you can go buy one of those brand new I mean,
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: like that little KTM three ninety adventure.
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: And that kind of stuff. I mean, I think they're
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: like seventy five hundred bucks, aren't they Right now? They're
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: really cheap, But they have a new one. I'm going
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: to do the BDR, the Idaho BDR later this year,
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: and I'm going to get this new KTM three ninety
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: adventure R or something equivalent to it. It doesn't have
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: to be that bike, but I want something that is
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: super small. And then the reason why I want to
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: do that is I want to have a bike that
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: on a Wednesday I can be like, I'm shipping this
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: thing to add Abbaba or where. Yeah, so they're not
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: that expensive.
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: And I think that if you haven't looked at motorcycles
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: in a while, it's important to note that you're like, oh,
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: I'm not running a three ninety. That the the horsepower
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: per leader on motorcycles just like cars. Now it's completely different, right,
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: they're a lot more efficient. They can still make like
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: pretty considerable power. Oh yeah, you know. Anyway, so you
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: know you can get away with a smaller bike you
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: do have then costs like your you're not only for
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: you mean, your life is going to pretend on the
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: same not pretend your life is going to depend on
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: the safety gear that you have. So helmet, you know
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: you're going to spend maybe you're going to spend a
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: thousand bucks on a helmet. You know, there's some good options,
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: probably in the five hundred dollars range, but you're probably
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: gonna want something that maybe you're gonna want to do
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: a little Bluetooth thing, because you're otherwise just going to
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: be listening to a motor for twenty five thousand miles,
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: and these items aren't cheap.
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: You probably would budget two grand for unless you hop
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: on eBay and you get some stuff used. I mean
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: there are options that help. You don't want to buy
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: a used helmet, use.
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: Your head Deil that's going right now for used motorcycle
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: gear is being the same size as Scott.
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: It's like all my gear for friend. Now, that's great, But.
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like the motorcycle thing I find to be
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: more challenging, maybe more authentic, Like I definitely like when
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: I'm traveling and you find an international Overlander on a bike,
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: do you need water?
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: You beer? Do you want to come over for dinner?
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: I think that it opens people up a little more
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: because they realize that you're not doing it the easiest way.
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: You know, there's a there's a difference in the way
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: someone will perceive me doing this trip in my earth
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: versus somebody on a budget doing it on a small motorcycle.
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: And even the locals view it that way too, because
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: most locals like the first vehicle that they've probably that
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: they probably experienced was a motorcycle. Their family probably at
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: least owns a motorcycle. That's true in Africa and it's
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: true throughout the Americas. So motorcycles don't come across as
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: intimidating or as intimidating. And when you do get a helmet,
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: consider getting one with a flip up face shield, so
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: that way people can see your face and they can
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: see your smile, and they can see dust and water
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: and stuff all all over your beard and everything else
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: like that. They're just so much more demanding. But I
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: look back at them with such like so many positive
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: feelings around that. Like when I was traveling solo in Peru,
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: like through the Andes, just all by myself on a motorcycle,
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: camping out at night at high elevation, and I was
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: really cold and like put my jacket over the top
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: of me just to make it through the night. Those
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: memories are very vivid for me. And the interactions in
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: the little towns, like when you finally get the chance
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: to take the helmet off and the jacket off, and
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: you're sitting at the little cafe and you're looking down
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: at your BMW and you're like this is like there's
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: something about it it's very different, and it feels romantic
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: like it isn't just romanticized, like it not only felt
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: that way at the time because I was so connected
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: in with the entire experience. I mean, it was life
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: changing for me. But even when I look back at it,
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: like I think about like the trip that Sinwe and
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: Mitcho and I did across Columbia's up on the on
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: the wall behind me. That was really hard.
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe this is a wake up call for him.
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: But I don't know if I could do it. I
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: don't know if I could do the PanAm.
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: On a bike. It's hard, really hard. I think it
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: would be hard to do it too up.
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: She would just like eventually, you know, I'd have penises
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: drawn on my.
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: Back or something. She'd be so bored.
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: But I guess maybe we should talk about kind of
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: the end of this trip, so you know, you drive this,
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: Do we want to just touch base on the motorcycle
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: concept real quick? I mean as far as like my
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: example would be probably like a WR two fifty. It
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: would be there is the new like three ten Honda.
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: It's like a little rally that these are these are
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: bikes that you can find used in the three and
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: a half to five and a half thousand dollars range,
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: and they were sold in a lot of these markets,
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: so they and they're super reliable, you know. I think
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: about Stefano's WR two fifty R that he the Yamaha
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: that he rode and crazy enough, like he made it
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: all the way to Fairbanks and the thing broke down,
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: like I had a wiring harness issue, but like he
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: made it through Europe, all the way across Africa, the
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: entire length of the Americas and then the thing canned
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: out on them way up there. But you know, the bike.
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: It is a good idea. I think it's a good
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: idea to get something with abs. It's a good idea
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: to get something with fuel injection because they are much
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: more efficient, and fuel injection is very reliable anymore. Yeah, And.
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: I mean it's higher technology but arguably simpler. You have
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: a fuel pump on a carbureted motorcycle. Either way, I
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: like carbs. I find them fun to rebuild. Finding a
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: rebuild kit for an older motorcycle versus a fuel injector
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: that may be an off the shelf part.
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: The one exception might be a KLR KLRS now but
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: they were carbureted up until very recently. So a KLR
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: it is a rest of the world bike. They it's
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: probably the most traveled on adventure bike in the world,
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: much more so than a BMW. Despite what we see
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: in the media, klrs are just like they have a
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: five plus gallon fuel tank, almost a six gallon fuel tank,
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: so they have a lot of things right out of
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: the gate. You got to do the dow Hickey mod
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: but really they're kind of ready to go. They're very upright.
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: You have a lot of road presence on them, and
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: you can find a KLR for twenty five hundred bucks.
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: I will.
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: You know, we're kind of going towards budget and we're
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: going towards fuel economy and all of these things because
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: you want the savings and the fuel economy because my opinion,
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: you're going to be spending more on hostile Yeah, you're
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: not just going to park in somebody's yard that you
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: met and sleep in the back of your car.
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: You know, you sleep in your tent in your yard.
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: That's fine.
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: But even some of the bmwgs stuff obviously, like you know,
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: the eleven fifty that we got for like twenty five
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: hundred bucks yahk Bomber to work. But you can get
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: like these, you know. I'm not saying that the adventure
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: bike thing has kind of faded. I know, I generally
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: do think motorcycles becoming less and less popular in the
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: United States. But you can get a twelve hundred GS
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: for like considerably less than like this Mercedes Wagon, and
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: then you have you know, but then the fuel economy
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: is not as good. You're thinking forty miles to the gallon,
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: which is not much of a savings as compared to
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: like a out back yeah or whatever. No chains, you know,
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: so a little bit better on maintenance. But if you're
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: a bigger person, yeah, some of these smaller bikes may
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: not be the best choice for you.
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: The only downside I see two downsides of the smaller
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: bikes from having ridden them in other countries, is there
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: is something about looking different than everyone else on the
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: road that's riding a motorcycle. So when you're on a GS,
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: you end up with this road presence that everybody knows
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: you're tall, you're different, you stand out as being different.
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: You're not just another local on a bike that they're
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: going to try to push towards the shoulder. When they
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: go around you, they're going to be like hmm.
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: Equivalent of like the big truck thing in America.
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: And then the other thing is on a motorcycle, you
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: tend to gain efficiency during the day because you got
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: to stop more often because you get a little fatigue,
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: you need a break. But you gain that efficiency back
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: by being able to pass quickly. So that's the one
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: thing that worries me about a little bike. Like I
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: think about when I was in Columbia and Ecuador and
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: Peru and all that with that GS it's like that
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: thing you thought about passing and you were already around
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: the truck, And if you're on something like a three
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: ninety and you're making forty horsepower, like you know, it's
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: kind of a lot of it's just not going to
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: rip around somebody, which that can be an advantage. So
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: I mean, those are just the things that it's like
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: anything that you're balancing. But you know, like I think
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: about back to Steffano, he just slowed down. He just
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: wasn't in a rush. He'd parked behind the truck and
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: just you know, until he got to the top of
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: the mountain or found a really safe place to pass,
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: and then he would pass. If you enjoy the podcast,
• 44:39
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• 44:42
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• 45:17
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of different ways that I think you
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: can do it, but I think the point being like,
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: you can do this trip on a budget. We had
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: we talked a little before the podcast about you know,
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: a lot of folks talk to us, Oh, well, I
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: wish I could do that.
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: But my career have the money.
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, if you're a capable, smart person that's
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: willing to make sacrifices in your day to day life,
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: you know, this trip would be like saving five hundred dollars. Yeah, no,
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: I guess it would be. You'd have to save one
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: thousand dollars a month for like two years to do it.
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: You know, that's what a lot of people have, like
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: a car payment or yeah, I mean like what is
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: that a day? Like I don't have my phone. But
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: like you know, people god, like I'm on a millennial
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: and people like would always give us shit like stop
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: spending money on lattes and avocado toasts and then you
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: can buy a million dollar house. But like, there is
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: actually something to it.
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: If you're spending there's two hundred and fifteen bucks a
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: month just on lattes most people spend. So you know,
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: you figure that in your gym membership and at the
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: fancy car payment, you can get there if you want.
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: It's just priorities. It's reasonable, right.
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: And now on the career thing, we've been around for
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: a bit and we've met so many people that have
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: done this and it life just sometimes takes them in
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: a different way. But they always seem happier after they
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: do some kind of transformative travel. Yeah, if they are
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: in corporate America and they're like, oh, well, I'm you know,
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: I got to climb the ladder, be on Microsoft teams
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: all day. Like sometimes being an exceptional person is the
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: thing that gets you to the next level.
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it makes you less afraid, makes you
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: less anxious, makes you better able to solve problems, makes
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: you more likely to take the risk as an entrepreneur.
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: The number of people that we see come back that
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: then create their own career path like look at you know,
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: you know, dirt Sunrise and take your pick. A lot
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: of them they came back and they found their own path.
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: I have friends that I traveled with when I was younger.
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: It was at the age where most people would have
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: been really focused on their career. These people are all
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: entrepreneurs now. They were really most of these people were
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: pretty intelligent to begin with. Just remember that, just do it. Yeah. Well,
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: and also like, nobody escapes this ride alive, Like it's
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: like we have an expiration date, every single one of us.
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: So I think the remembering that we don't get to
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: escape this ride alive is it helps us make decisions
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: like this, because if it's important to you, you'll find
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: a way when a lot of people do it. If
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: you've got an example of you doing trips on a
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: low cost per day, we'd love to hear about it.
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: We'd love to share that with others. To encourage them,
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: you know, and then you know, I just want to
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: roll out there. Like if someone is going to take
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: either Matt's example, if someone is going to drive the
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: length of the America's in a W one two three,
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: or they're gonna pick up, you know, an inexpensive motorcycle
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: and they're gonna go do the same thing. Will help
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: you when you get to the other end of it,
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: when you get to ushwaya reach out to Matt or
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: I on Instagram and I'm gonna send you five hundred bucks,
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: and We're gonna only do it. We're only gonna do
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: it once. It's not like we're everybody who does it,
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: but the first person who either does it in a
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: Classic Mercedes or in a Sanra Minivana has been able
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: to get do an entire trip across the Pan America
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: for less than twenty five thousand bucks. Please let us
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: know we'd love to be a part of helping you
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: having achieved that, get you on the podcast and will
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: help you out with some cash too cool.
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: I think the last thing I wanted to just chat
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: about is you know, you're obviously getting to the end
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: of the Pan American Highway. You're in Argentina. You can't
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: just light your car on fire, right, so you are
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: going to have to figure out are you gonna ship it?
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: But I think the interesting thing to do is if
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: you're looking at the vehicle more as a tool. You know,
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: some people get emotionally attached to their vehicle. You can
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: sell your vehicle to another traveler, like I see it
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: on the PanAm Facebook groups. I see it on overland
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: travel groups. There's almost always a vehicle that somebody has
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: completed their trip and they're selling it. In the United States,
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: for example, in Arizona, it's really simple to transfer that registration.
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: There are things that you then have to do in
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: country with the registration of the vehicle locally, and if
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: you're willing to do the trip, like I always romantically
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: think riding from the north to the south. But if
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: you're willing to go from the south to the north,
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: but you can have a proven vehicle flying to USHWAYA
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: and start heading north.
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: Yep, that's right, and then you can get it that
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: much closer to home, you know, like roll on roll
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: off from Panama into Houston is like a thousand bucks
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: or so. It's just not that expensive.
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm excited to see if people can do this.
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and we'd love to hear your stories for those
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: that have done it, because we don't want people to
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: feel like overlanding is too expensive. We want there to
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: be lots of great stories out there of people doing
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: it even with their family and affording it so awesome. Well,
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: we thank you all for listening and we'll talk to
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: you next time.