Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / BOMBSHELL OVERNIGHT ARREST after high school football star, Ahmaud Arbery, unarmed, shot dead: shooter claims citizens arrest.

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BOMBSHELL OVERNIGHT ARREST after high school football star, Ahmaud Arbery, unarmed, shot dead: shooter claims citizens arrest. · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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  Speaker 1: Hi guys, Nancy Grace. Here, at a time when we
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  Speaker 1: cons that will not only take advantage of you, but
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  Speaker 1: the virus. I hope you go to crime online dot
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  Speaker 1: com and download this. It's been highly researched and presented
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  Speaker 1: for you for free. Goodbye, friend, keep the faith. A
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  Speaker 1: shooting death has wrought not only a community, but a
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  Speaker 1: state and a nation. Of course, I am talking about
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  Speaker 1: the shooting death of a young twenty five year old
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  Speaker 1: man which is now spurned incredible activity amongst local law enforcement.
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  Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. How did
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  Speaker 1: a young man go from jogging in a neighborhood to
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  Speaker 1: suddenly ending up dead on the ground shot twice? What happened?
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  Speaker 1: With me an all star panel to figure it out?
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  Speaker 1: Of course, again, I'm talking about twenty five year old
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  Speaker 1: Ahmad Aubrey with me, civil rights lawyer. You know him
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: well from the Trayvon Martin case, Ben Crump on the case.
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  Speaker 1: You can find him at being Crump dot com. Another
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  Speaker 1: special guest is joining me is Amad Aubrey's high school
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  Speaker 1: football coach, a native of Brunswick, Georgia. Jason Vaughan, doctor
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  Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall, psycho Allens to the Stars, joining me out
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  Speaker 1: of Beverly Hills at Instagram. Doctor Bethany Marshall, James Shelnutt,
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  Speaker 1: twenty seven years metro major case swat now lawyer, the
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  Speaker 1: medical examiner for the entire state All Florida, doctor Tim Gallagher,
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  Speaker 1: and Crime online dot Com investigator and reporter Levi Page.
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  Speaker 1: In the last hours we learn charges and arrests have
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  Speaker 1: gone down. Take a listen now to the GBI. We
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  Speaker 1: were officially requested to become involved late Tuesday evening, when
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  Speaker 1: mister Durten and I had a conversation, probably about nine
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  Speaker 1: thirty or so that evening, he graciously requested us to
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  Speaker 1: come in and we immediately accepted that request. I advised
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  Speaker 1: him that we would hit the ground running very hard
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  Speaker 1: Wednesday morning. So about ten o'clock Tuesday night, I relayed
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  Speaker 1: that request down the chain of command to the Deputy
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  Speaker 1: Director of Investigations, Scott Dutton, who was standing up here
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  Speaker 1: with me to my left, and then Deputy Director Dutton
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  Speaker 1: began putting together a team to begin the investigation. From
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  Speaker 1: my perspective, early Wednesday morning, sometime during the morning hours
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  Speaker 1: of Wednesday, we were able to secure our hands on
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  Speaker 1: the file, the investigative file, which had been done previously,
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  Speaker 1: and the agent spent the rest of that day pouring
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  Speaker 1: through that file to make sure they understood what had
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  Speaker 1: been done in the case and what they thought needed
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  Speaker 1: to be done in the case, reviewing interviews and things
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  Speaker 1: of that nature, and they spent the remainder of Wednesday
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  Speaker 1: until very very late Wednesday night. Oh no, that voice anywhere,
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  Speaker 1: That is the voice of a longtime colleague, Vic Reynolds,
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  Speaker 1: who prosecuted with me in the Inner City Atlanta District
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  Speaker 1: Attorney's office for many, many years. An excellent trial lawyer
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  Speaker 1: and an excellent investigator. What a relief when the GBI
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  Speaker 1: took over this case. But why did it come to that.
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  Speaker 1: Let's just start at the beginning, how this whole thing
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  Speaker 1: started brewing until it boiled over. Take a listen to
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  Speaker 1: the nine one one calls breaks out here, there's a
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  Speaker 1: guy in the house right and now the house under constructions.
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  Speaker 1: You have your address or the other add house of
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  Speaker 1: the address, uh right at two nineteen or two twenty.
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  Speaker 1: Stuila drives and he said, someone them breaking into it
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  Speaker 1: right now. No, it's it's all open. It's under construction.
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  Speaker 1: And he's running right now, Terry good, he's right now. Okay,
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  Speaker 1: what is he doing? He's running down the streets Hope, okay, exactly, Okay,
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  Speaker 1: that's fine, I'll getting them out there. I didn't even
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  Speaker 1: know what he was doing wrong. Was he just on
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  Speaker 1: the premisesn't not supposed to be the week and stuff
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  Speaker 1: on her. And he's been caught on the camera a
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  Speaker 1: bunch before at night kind of an one thing out here.
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  Speaker 1: The man is building a house. He got part. Easy's
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  Speaker 1: up there. You're not going to finish. Okay, that's fine,
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  Speaker 1: white T shirt, black guy, and he's done back, un done,
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  Speaker 1: run back, rich of negative. Okay, you're hearing the nine
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  Speaker 1: on and call that started this whole thing. Now we
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  Speaker 1: know charges have been brought by the GBI Georgia Berry
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  Speaker 1: of investigation of murder and aggravated assault. In the jurisdiction
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  Speaker 1: of Georgia, murder carries life behind bars, life without parole,
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  Speaker 1: or the death penalty. Aggravated assault intentionally causing serious fear
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  Speaker 1: of death or bodily injury carries the penalty of one
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  Speaker 1: to twenty years repeat. Georgia is a death penalty state.
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: What an all star panel joining me straight out to
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  Speaker 1: Ben Crump, civil rights lawyer on the case. You will
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  Speaker 1: remember him from the Trayvon Martin defense. Ben Crump, It's
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  Speaker 1: just so hard for me to take in the series
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  Speaker 1: of events and then to claim citizens arrest. That is
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  Speaker 1: what we understand. Sixty four year old Gregory McMichael and
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  Speaker 1: son thirty four year old Travis McMichael are claiming, Yeah, Nancy,
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  Speaker 1: it's just asinine. And I know we've covered many cases,
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  Speaker 1: and this is one of the most shocking ones when
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  Speaker 1: you think about you have that horrific video that literally
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  Speaker 1: has them like a lynch mob almost chasing this young
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  Speaker 1: black man through the community where he is just jogging
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  Speaker 1: minding his business and these two vehicles are chasing him.
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  Speaker 1: You imagine what is he thinking, Are they trying to
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  Speaker 1: kill me? What did I do? And they're running after
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  Speaker 1: him and they say they believe he burglarives at home now.
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  Speaker 1: He has t shirts and shots and jogging shoes on.
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  Speaker 1: He doesn't have a burglary's mask, he doesn't have a
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  Speaker 1: burglar's bag or burglars too, any of that stuff. And
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  Speaker 1: so it begs the question. When the police got there,
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  Speaker 1: the first police on the sea, they just took their
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  Speaker 1: word as the gospel. They didn't do any count investigation,
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  Speaker 1: apparently because they let the killers go home and sleep
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  Speaker 1: in their beds at night. And when everybody, whether us
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  Speaker 1: at the day New York Times seeing in, they said, well,
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  Speaker 1: we've called everybody in. There have been no calls for
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  Speaker 1: burglar burglaries in this community, hud one thing at a time,
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  Speaker 1: being cromped you. You're right. I've investigated the number of
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  Speaker 1: burglaries in that community. There's only been one that has
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  Speaker 1: been reported to police, and it was the burglary of
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  Speaker 1: a vehicle party down on the street and a gun
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  Speaker 1: was taken out of it. So I want to get
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  Speaker 1: back to the claim of citizens around That is what
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  Speaker 1: we understand Gregory and Travis McMichael are claiming in their defense.
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  Speaker 1: You said something being crump that I want to follow
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  Speaker 1: up on. You said that Ahmad Aubrey was being chased
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  Speaker 1: by two vehicles. Now I think he may be right,
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  Speaker 1: because somebody was taking that video. The Michael's weren't taking it.
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  Speaker 1: Aubrey wasn't taking it. Tell me what you can shed
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  Speaker 1: light on regarding two vehicles facing Ahmad Aubrey. Yes, ma'am.
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  Speaker 1: It was the pickup truck well for Gregory Michael's in
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  Speaker 1: the back, will for gun and his son driving and
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  Speaker 1: another gentleman who we believe name is William Bryant, who
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  Speaker 1: we believe will be arrested as an accomplice. But he's
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  Speaker 1: the one who was trying to make sure he cut
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  Speaker 1: off amand Aubrey. He's the one who video takes the
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  Speaker 1: execution of this young man and broad daylight and I'll
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  Speaker 1: follow j out to mister Bib. I know he knows
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  Speaker 1: Mom personally, but it's just that's what it was. Are
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  Speaker 1: you saying, William Bryant be Is and brother r y
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  Speaker 1: A N t r Bes and brother r I A
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  Speaker 1: N Brian b r y A N. I believe gotcha
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  Speaker 1: William Brian. Now let me understand this. I'm chasing him
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  Speaker 1: two vehicles. How did the second vehicle get involved? I
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  Speaker 1: believe the Michael's whether Gregory of Travis called him and said, hey,
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  Speaker 1: we we see this black man running and let's go
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  Speaker 1: get him. We think he's burglar rising our community, is
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  Speaker 1: what they said. But you know, you go back and
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  Speaker 1: you ask yourself, now, I say, why do you have
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  Speaker 1: a shotgun and a three fifty seven magnum pistol to go?
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  Speaker 1: Who has a T shirt and short song juggons? Well,
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  Speaker 1: you're right, but I guarantee you at trial because this
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  Speaker 1: is head of Detroital right now, these are just GBI
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  Speaker 1: charges Georgia Bureau Investigation. There's gonna be an indictment. I
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  Speaker 1: guarantee you one way or the other, come hell or
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  Speaker 1: high water, and they will have a right to explain
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  Speaker 1: this on the stand Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The guys,
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  Speaker 1: we are talking about the arrest of Gregory and Travis McMichael,
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  Speaker 1: age sixty four and thirty four, respectively in the night.
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  Speaker 1: Why why did it take so long? Joining me Crimoline
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  Speaker 1: dot Com investigative reporter Levi Page, Levi, what took so long?
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  Speaker 1: So Nancy, the gLing County District Attorney's office active, and
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  Speaker 1: because Gregory McMichael had been an investigator there for decades,
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  Speaker 1: they wiped their hands of this case. And a special
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  Speaker 1: prosecutor was brought in, Prosecutor George E. Barnhill, Georgia's Waycross
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  Speaker 1: Judicial Circuit, and he claimed that miss start carrying. Yes,
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  Speaker 1: they claimed that they were carrying their weapons legally under
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  Speaker 1: Georgia law, that they were right to make a citizen's arrest,
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  Speaker 1: and that this was in self defense and there was
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  Speaker 1: insufficient stop stop right there because they got to go
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  Speaker 1: to James Shell not twenty seven years Atlanta Metro major case.
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  Speaker 1: Swat Now, lawyer, did you hear what he just said?
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  Speaker 1: What Levi Page just said, citizens arrest? That is not
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  Speaker 1: the citizens arrest statute in the state of Georgia. It's
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  Speaker 1: just like saying, oh, I just saw Jackie Howard's shoplift,
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  Speaker 1: I'm going to go shoot her in the parking lot.
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  Speaker 1: That is not what citizens arrest is. Explain James Sheldon,
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  Speaker 1: why this is so wrong. This will never stand up
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  Speaker 1: in a court of law. It's wrong on a couple
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  Speaker 1: of different levels. Number One, the citizens arrest statute in
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  Speaker 1: Georgia says that in order to make a citizens arrest
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  Speaker 1: privacism must have a warrant. However, there are exceptions to that.
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  Speaker 1: One is if the private citizen witnesses a violation of
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  Speaker 1: state law that is committed that they witness or is
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  Speaker 1: committed in their immediate presence. Okay, based off everything that
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  Speaker 1: I've seen on the report, they can't even get past
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  Speaker 1: the first hurdle, which is they didn't see this young
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  Speaker 1: man commit any type of offense. Okay, I'm not just
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  Speaker 1: jumping on the bandwagon. I am saying what I believe
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  Speaker 1: to be true citizens arrest, and everybody's screaming about Georgia
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  Speaker 1: citizens arrest. There are citizens arrest statutes all across the country.
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  Speaker 1: None of them allow a citizen to apply deadly force,
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  Speaker 1: in other words, kill somebody to apprehend a fleeing felon,
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  Speaker 1: and even if it is a felon, you have to
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  Speaker 1: see the felon committed crime. To Ben Crump, civil rights lawyer,
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  Speaker 1: you know him from the Trayvon Martin trial. If you
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  Speaker 1: take the McMichaels by their own words, they say, he
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  Speaker 1: looks like a guy we think broke in before. And
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  Speaker 1: we see him coming out of a house under constructions,
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: which means there's no walls or doors. He's coming from
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  Speaker 1: that area jogging. That's how I read the police report.
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  Speaker 1: Ben absolutely nasty, and it's so hard when I talk
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  Speaker 1: to my clients, especially his father, to say why they
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  Speaker 1: didn't arrest him on day one, because if the roads
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  Speaker 1: were reversed, he says, he doesn't have any doubt that
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: if this was a mine in him, who got him
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  Speaker 1: a pickup truck with this shotgun in this three fifth
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  Speaker 1: and seven magnum and they chased Greg McMichael's son, a
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  Speaker 1: young white man, and killed him in broad daylight. They
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  Speaker 1: would have been arrested for day one. They could have
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  Speaker 1: said citizens arrest. They could have said self defense, stand
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  Speaker 1: your ground. It said, we cannot have two justice systems
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  Speaker 1: in America, one for black American, one for white America,
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  Speaker 1: and that is underscored in this case over and over again.
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  Speaker 1: Been I'm gonna say, you're absolutely right. If the roles
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  Speaker 1: were reversed and two black males chase down a white
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  Speaker 1: twenty five year old football star and shot him dead
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  Speaker 1: and they claimed citizens arrest, oh no, they would have
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: been laughed out of the court. You're right about that,
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: and nobody wants a two tiered justice system. Guys, in
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  Speaker 1: the last hours, we know that the GBI, headed by
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: Vick Reynolds, longtime colleague of mine, has made an arrest
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  Speaker 1: and an announcement. These are GBI charges which I believe
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: will be followed by a formal grand jury indictment. Take
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: a listen to this early Thursday morning, yesterday morning, running
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  Speaker 1: a plan of operation and what they thought needed to
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: be done regarding the remainder of the investigation. They hit
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  Speaker 1: that pavement hard yesterday doing neighborhood canvases, talking to other
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  Speaker 1: individuals who had already been spoken to, some individuals who
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  Speaker 1: had not. And then after the course of that investigation
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  Speaker 1: yesterday about five PM, we had a command staff level
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  Speaker 1: conference call with the boots on the ground agents here
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  Speaker 1: in Glen County, and we were advised at the Command
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  Speaker 1: staff conference call that they had established and the facts
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  Speaker 1: had established sufficient probable calls to seek arrest war it's
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  Speaker 1: against both Greg and Travis McMichael for felony, murder and
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: aggive at assault. Guys, you're hearing the voice of Vick
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  Speaker 1: Reynolds now running the GBI George Bureau of Investigation. But
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: how did the whole thing start? Listen to this nine
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  Speaker 1: one one call, because I'm learning a lot by listening
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  Speaker 1: to the mc michael's own words before they took off
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  Speaker 1: in that pickup truck with the addressing emergency. I'm not
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: hearing Till shorts as a black male running down the
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  Speaker 1: steer where we're at Steller's Shorts. I don't know what
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: three world about? That? Is it? Grevick? Sir? Hello, sir, sir,
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: where are you at? Hello? Hello? I just hate to
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: hear it. I hate to hear it. Those are the
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  Speaker 1: last things that I'm Arebrey just twenty five heard, And
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: I think of my children, my little boy, my little girl, John,
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  Speaker 1: David and Lucy, they're not that much younger running down
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  Speaker 1: the road and suddenly finding out they're being pursued by
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  Speaker 1: a pickup truck with two guys with guns, and then
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  Speaker 1: dying right there on the pavement. Just think about that
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  Speaker 1: for a moment, hold that thought, and then for the
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  Speaker 1: McMichaels and I would not be saying this judging the
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  Speaker 1: evidence this way if I had not seen the video
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  Speaker 1: of myself, and you can see it at crime online
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  Speaker 1: dot com. They are now saying that this twenty five
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  Speaker 1: year old football star, Ahmad Arebury thought violently. Well, I
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: guess he did. You see a guy jump down of
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: a pickup choke with a shotgun? You do ive right,
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: You're gonna fight for your life? Why did this have
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: to happen? I want to go to another special guest
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: joining us. It's Jason Vaughan. This is a Mad Aubrey's
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: high school football defensive line coach, a Brunswick native. You know,
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: Jason Vaughan. I spent so much time in Brunswick, Georgia.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: I've written a book about the area in one of
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: my murder mysteries. Because of the mephist Center which is
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: there at Saint Simon's and we'd take off every summer
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: and the church bus about forty five miles an hour
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: down Old forty one to get to your hometown. And
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: it's beautiful, the Live Oaks, the Georgia Coast, largely untouched Pristaine,
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  Speaker 1: now marred by a crime that has torn the country apart.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: Can you tell me about Ahmad Aarbury. Ahmad Aarbury was
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: just a specially young man. I was a coaching teacher
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: and he just had this smile that when you've seen him,
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: it lit up a room. Many teachers can relate that.
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: We just love on some kids a little extra harder.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: And Maud was just one of those kids who he
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: was so shy, but once you can get him, you know, talking,
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: you can get that smile from him, and he can
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: sense when you were having a bad day. And he
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: would stand beside me, you know, if I'm having a
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: bad day, and he'll mimit me and saying, hey, I'm
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: coach round the day, y'all get the class. And he
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: was just getting me smiling and literally changed my whole
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: entire move. It was just that bright night. In our
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: Community Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Guys, we are talking
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: about the death of a young man, a high school
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: football star and now two adult males former lawmen charged
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: with murder an aggravated assault. The Georgia Bureau of Investigations
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: has now stepped in, headed by longtime colleague Vic Reynolds.
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: Take a listen to this. Those agents then immediately yesterday evening,
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: sometime around the six o'clock hour or so, began securing
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: the warrants through the assistance of a spear court judge
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: in the Glen County area. Of those warrants were secured,
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: they went came back to their command center staff and
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: began putting together a plan of operation to effectuate the
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: arrest at about seven forty five. That was in fact
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: done yesterday evening without any instant. No one was hurt
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: and neither the defendants nor any of the agents, and
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: so that was done properly and safely, and we were
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: very thankful of that. Those individuals were then turned over
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: to the Glen County Sheriff's Department and have been placed
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: in custody at that particular jail. So that's where we're
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: at today. You're hearing a longtime colleague, Vic Renolds nar
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: running the GBI Georgia Bureau Investigations, who stepped in as
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: he should have to take control of this case and
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: make something happen. When I look at Ahmad Aubrey's mother,
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: she speaks very calmly, very calmly, but it really struck
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: me Ben Crump, lawyer on the case, civil rights attorney,
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: that she said she hasn't been able to bring herself
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: to look at the video. Did you hear her say that, Ben, Yes, Nancy,
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: and I don't think anybody in his family have been
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: able to watch the video except the sustance. And when
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: she watched it, she was so outraised that it killed
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: her mother and father over again because she was trying
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: to describe to them how Amad was executed and the
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: fact that a MOD was running from them. You know,
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: they say flight a fight where he tried to take
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: flight and today cut them off. And then at that
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: point you fighting for your life, like these guys got
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: a shotgun. They're yelling at me, and it's just unbelievable
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: when you think, what was Amad thinking? Why these guys
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: chasing me? What did I do wrong? I'm just exercising
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: and jogging. I know Coach Bonum probably knows that everybody
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: has said in that community, a MOD was physically fitting
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: he pried himself on standing in shape. He would run
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: four or five miles every day, so it wasn't incoming
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: for him to be jogging, and so for him to
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: be chased by you know, Nancy, it's hard to look
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: at that video and not HARKing back to yesteryears when
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: you did see, you know, these images of lynch mobs
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: chasing young black men and killing them and then not
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: having any accountability, going home and sleep in their bed
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: at night, as if their life didn't matter at all.
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: And that's what his mother and father and his family
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: have to deal with. And I think that's why they
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: can't bring themselves to watch that video, you know. Dodtor
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall psychoanalysts join me from Beverly Hills on insta
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: at Dodtor Bethany Marshall, Doctor Bethany, I think that there's
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: also a psychological reason that they can't look at that video. Nancy.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: It would be too traumatizing to know what happened to
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: their son, a nephew, a cousin, a brother, a family member,
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: a member of the community, a student, a star athlete,
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: all these things that are being described about Aubrey. To
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: see what he experienced to put themselves in his mind. Nancy,
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: that would be too traumatic. You know, some things we
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: just cannot digest, especially if it's a family member. We
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: can't think it, we can't know it. It would completely
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: overwhelm our ability to cope. The nation is outraged. The
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: nation can't stand to see this. The nation cannot stand
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: to know that this happened to this beautiful star athlete.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: How could his own parents look here, see and witness
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: and bear witness to such a horrifying, tragic ending to
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: their sun's life. It's unthinkable. And you know, doctor Bethany, i'
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: pop all my love, my emotion, my energy into the
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: twins and to just see all those dreams, not just mine,
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: but there's end. And you know, Bethany, I've told you
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: many times I've never brought myself to go to the
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: sin of the crime where my fiancee was murdered shortly
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: before our wedding. I just don't want to see it.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: I don't want that in my head. There's already enough
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: there regarding his murder. And Bethany, I remember when Lucy
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: and John David were born so premature, they originally thought
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: Lucy was blind and at one juncture, they had to
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: inject a needle into her eye area and I just
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: didn't think I could stand it. And my husband said,
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: you can leave, I'll stay. I'm like, no, I'm staying here.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: I'm staying with her. And I stayed with her and
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: held her little little bitty baby. He know, she's born
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: at two pounds, and that nearly killed me watching that.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: Can you imagine AMoD Urby's parents having to watch this video? Nancy,
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: I remember on Court TV after you had the twins,
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: you were so worried that something would happen to them,
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: something bad, that I would be on set with you
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: and you would write me notes about the dreams you
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: had that bad things have. You know that somebody would
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: kidnap the twins, that some harm would befall them, and
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: you couldn't even bear to say it. You didn't want
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: to say it on a hot mic, you didn't want
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: people in the control room to hear it. But you
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: just had to say it to somebody to get reassurance.
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: You know, in the DSM, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: of Mental Disorders, when you look at trauma and post
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: traumatic stress, one of the things that causes trauma is
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: witnessing a traumatic scene. You don't have to be in
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: it to be traumatized. Witnessing it is traumatic. So I
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: think even people listening to the show, people who have
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: seen the video, it's important for them to process with
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: their friends, loved ones, with a therapist what we're all
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: seeing and talking about, so that we, as in the
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: mom and dad, are going to look at that video.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: To doctor Tim Gallagher, the medical examiner for the entire
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: state of Georgia, excuse me off Florida, dotor Gallagher, what
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: exactly were the wounds that we know of as of
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: right now? To Ahmad Aurbury, Well, we know that Ahmad
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: Aubury were shot two times with a shotgun, and a
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: shotgun is one of the most powerful weapons that you
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: can have in your hands. For those of the listeners
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: who are unfamiliar with the shotgun, a single bullet comes
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: out of a regular handgun, but out of a shotgun
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: comes many, many projectiles. At the pull of the trigger.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: A close range shotgun injury is almost fatal. Having two
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: shotgun injuries is certainly going to be fatal of anyone
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: who leaves their vehicle carrying a shotgun and a three
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: fifty seven magnum is up to no good, doctor gall.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: Let me clarify in my own on and for the
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: listeners and viewers, what does a shotgun blast wound look
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: like as supposed to Let's just say at twenty two. Well,
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: a twenty two is a very small gun. Is probably
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: one of the least powerful handguns or rifles that you
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: can carry. Typically, what we find is that a twenty
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: two projectile, a twenty two bullet will enter into the body,
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: it will cause damage, but it is too weak to
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: exit the body. There's no there's typically no exit wound
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: with a twenty two, A very small entry wound, a
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: very small entry when sometimes you really have to look
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: for them, they're just that small. But if you can
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: compare that with a shotgun, and I'm going to just
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: try to not be as a detailed for the listeners,
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: but there's a there's a very tell me the truth.
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: I don't care what the truth is, Just hit me
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: all righty, Well, the entrance of a shotgun is extremely large.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: It's probably the size of a half dollar or even
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: greater than that. There are many projectiles that enter the
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: body and go off in different directions, and then those
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: projectiles actually exit the body in a very large pattern,
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: maybe though sometimes it's the size of say a teacup saucer.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: And when they exit the body, they exit with a
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: lot of blood. They exit, they push all some of
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: the organs out of the entrance wound, as well as
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: some of the bones and blood vessels. So it's a
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: very devastating, very fatal injury. We don't have many people
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: that survive a close range shotgun blast of any type.
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: Plod stories with Nancy Grace with me doctor Tim Gallagher,
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: the medical examiner for the State of Florida. You are
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: hearing what happened to Ahmad Aubrey. We are talking about
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: the death of a twenty five year old young man
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: in the last hours. The GBI has handed down information
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: regarding and arrest on two charges murder and agassolt. I
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: just heard Ben Crump, civil rights lawyer, also on the case.
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: Ben was that you it was Nasa. I just want
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: to interject, and I'm going to have to leave in
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: a minute, Nat, because I understand AMA's birthday and his
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: family has something dispatcher that they're going to try to
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: do memory um and it underscores how difficult of a day.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: This is the arrest was a small birthday gift, but
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: as my client, his father Marcus said, we would just
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: much rather to have our son back. We wish we
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: had him on his twenty sixth birthday, he said. We
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: spent every birthday his whole life with him. This is
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: the first one they won't have with him. And if
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: I listened to the medical examine to explain the trauma
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: that his body must have endured from those shotguns bullets,
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: it's just so tragic that his life had to end
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: that way. And you heard Coach Bond and everybody who
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: has talked about a mind just say he was a
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: wonderful young man. He was a given karen person. His
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: father said, if he had his last dollars in his
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: pocket and you needed it, a mom was the counter
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: guy who would give it to you. Well, Benrump, you
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: better buckle your seatbelt because you know what's coming next,
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: all right. Just like with Trayvon Martin, Mahmad Rbury is
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: gonna be dragged through the mud. Do I like it?
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: H double L n O, But it's gonna happen. So
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: after you get through this day with Ahmad Aarbrey's family,
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: when they're ready. You better sit them down and tell
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: them what's gonna happen. And they're gonna have to endure
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: it and stay strong with the eye on the prize.
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: And that is justice justice in this case. And it's
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: gonna hurt awful, it's gonna be terrible on them, but
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: they've got to keep their eye on the prize. And
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: let me tell you something else, Crump, it is cold
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: comfort to get justice when you want your son back,
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: when you want your love of your life back. But
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: that's what we've got, that's what they that's what they have.
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: That's all they've got to look forward to. Right now.
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: To Jason Vaughan, I was just telling Being Crump civil
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: rights lawyer, a lawyer on this case. You can find
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: them at being crump dot com. Jason on with me.
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: I'm out Albury's high school football defensive line coach. I
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: know Albury's gonna get jagged through the mud. Everything he's
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: ever done wrong is going to be pulled out of
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: the closet and put on the front page. I'm ready
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: for it, but I want you to tell me why
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: was he a football star? I know he was one
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: of the MVA MVPs and played in the All Star Game.
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: Tell me about him. He told me about a smile.
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: What mar can you tell me? I just want to
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: tell you about his character. He was a leader on
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: the team. I'm just just one of the most vivid
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: stories I can remember about Mad. At the end of practice,
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: we're running these sprints. We got these guys running these
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: sprints because they didn't have a good practice, And the
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: whole time mine is just so encouraging killing those guys. Hey,
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: we gotta keep going. Keep your head of us, you know,
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: stand up tall. We had one guy who couldn't quite
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: make the time, mid spread all the way across the field.
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: Winna grabbed that man, Adam, and just took the man
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: arm and threw it around his shoulder and literally started
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: to jog and pull him in with him over the
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: line so that young man could finish that sprint on time.
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: And that's the kind of guy a Mad was. He
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: was always running out and looking out for others, trying
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: to do it for us, using his strength to make
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: other people strong. And that's why I say I don't
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: run this race. I run with Mad. A young man
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: who had great endurance, a young man who was loved
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: in our community. He would run all around our community,
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: and he would take the time to stop and play
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: basketball with the kids. And he'll play three or four
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: games with the kids into the neighborhood, kids got tired,
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: and then as soon as they got tired and went in,
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: he would go right back on his run. Because that's
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: the kind of guy he was. That running outside of
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: this beautiful area and there is a beach, it gets
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: you so much clarity with the wind and everything blowing,
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: and he could just literally just free his mind and
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: just and run and just forget about all the problems
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: of the day, and just forget about all the problems
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: of the week. And so he was out doing something
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: he loved, something he enjoyed. Our whole community is saying
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: the same thing. The mod was a runner in our community.
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: The kids Newman level, neighbor's normal level. They would speak
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: to him as he went down the road. He was
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: a son to our community. That breaks mouth and our
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: community and we know that the rules of justice is
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: going to be lone. But once again, I'm not using
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: my strength. I run with mad and this community does
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: his will. Let me tell you you're right about that.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: The road to justice is going to be long, rough
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: and rocky, and nobody can walk it. For Ahmad Aubrey's parents,
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: they got to walk it alone until they get to
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: the end of the road. What you just said breaks
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: my heart. That he said, keep your head up, Keep
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: your head up. Guys, we are talking about the death
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: of a young twenty five year old man, Ahmad Aubrey,
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: and he, like every other twenty five year old man,
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: was not always an angel. But for the most part,
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, this was a great kid that
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: was growing into a great man by all accounts. Now,
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: how did this happen? According to these two defendants, Gregory
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: and Travis McMichael, there have been a rash of break
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: ins in the area, and I know the area very well,
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: a lot of construction going on there. But when you
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: compare what they said to the reality, only one police report,
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: that's all we've been able to find in that neighborhood,
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: and it was of a car parked out on the
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: street and a gun was taken out of the car.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: What rash of burglaries? Michaels as I understand it. Levi
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: Page also said that Ahmad Aubrey looked like the guy
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: in the surveillance video. Hold on just a moment too,
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: Jason Vaughan, are being crump. I believe I'm getting background
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: noise from you. If you can meet yourselves, that'd be great. Leage.
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: Go ahead. You're correct, Nancy. The McMichaels had said that
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: there was a man outside the area near this home
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: that was under construction that matched the description of Ahmed
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: are Bury. But Nancy, they said that he matched the description,
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: how could they be sure that it was You know what,
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: Let's just take him at their word. And this is
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: why I'm doing that, James Shell not twenty seven years
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: metro major case swat now lawyer, because even if what
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: they said is true that he looked like somebody that
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: they thought was a burglar, if that's true, that still
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: does not justify deadly force, because when somebody's running from
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: you and you go after them, there's no claim of
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: self defense. Even cops are not entitled now to shoot
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: a fleeing felon unless they're presenting a danger. Yeah, you're
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: hundred percent correct. And what they did was illegal in
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: the first place, and then now Georgia law is going
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: to prevent them from arguing, and common sense prevents them
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: from argument that hey, we did something illegal. Now this
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: guy attacked us and we were acting in self defense. BS,
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: That's not what happened. And number two, even if you're
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: looking at this statute that the citizens rest statute, you
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: can only use deadly force if you were lawful or
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: you're preventing a forcible felony. None of those things apply.
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: This statute doesn't apply. And even taking on their face,
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: they have no claim under citizens arrest, they are going
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: to be prosecuted. You know, James Shelnutt, everybody's on fire
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: about the citizens or a statute. There's a citizens are
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: a statute and almost every jurisdiction in the country. But
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: what happened with Ahmad Aurbrey is not a citizens arrest.
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: Number one, citizens arrest is very akin to vigilante justice
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: or as I call it, vigilante injustice. In this case,
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: you have to see the person committing a felony and
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: then you are to pursue them if you're doing a
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: citizens arrest, but not with a gun. And no statute
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: is a citizen allowed to shoot down another citizen. Yeah,
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: I agree. The only way that they're going to be
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: justified in this and they're not, by the way, But
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: the only argument that they can make is that, hey,
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: we were acting lawfully under this citizens arrest statute and
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: this guy attacked us. Well, they're going to be prevented
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: from making an effective argument on that because what they
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: were doing in the first place was illegal, and you
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: can't be doing something illegal and then claim that you're
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: attacked and that you're justified in using deadly force. And also,
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: when you're the aggressor you kick, claim self defense when
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: your prey turns around and fights back. Guys, we are
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: waiting as justice unfalls. Right now, they're EBI charges and
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: we are waiting for a grand jury. True Bill Nancy
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: Grace's Crime Story signing off. Goodbye friend guys. Before we
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: sign off, let me tell you about an incredible new
• 41:17
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• 42:16
  Speaker 1: in this nightmare. I'm back in the autopsy suite and
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: her teeth unstick from her lips and she gurgles at me,
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  Speaker 1: the ground. Oh my God, tell me exactly what happened.
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  Speaker 1: just someone with stories to tell. Stories of victims you've
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: likely never heard of, and the emotional toll that working
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: around death and destruction has on the people tasked with
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: finding the answers to what happened to them. There are
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: things about it that are deeply rooted. There's just too
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: much blood for that, and sometimes you just can't get
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: over it. I was scared to death. We had a
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: really worst case scenario. None of it made innocence and
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: when we rolled her body over. When you see something
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: like that, you get angry or you just shut it down.
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: Detectives taped a wire to Jimmy Jackson's chest. That is
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: the voice of a terrified man. We had an unidentified
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: victim who done it murder and that's a little bit unusual.
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: It was a really forcible crash. This truck looked like
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: it could have been a crack rental. We have a
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: dead retired cop. Whoever did it was savvy enough to
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: pick the casings up and take them with them. And
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: she put her finger in my chest and she said,
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: you find out who did this. Follow along each week
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: as I dig into my journals and relive the emotions,
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: the pain, and the triumph of these hard won victories
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: for the victims and the shattered souls of their loved
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: ones left behind. Subscribe to Crime con Presents Shattered Souls,
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: a forensic detective's diary on your favorite podcast platform, Available
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: on May ninth. This is the no reel