Latest / Nightmare Success In and Out / Wall Street Hedge Fund Founder/Prison to Passion - The Chip Skowron Story

Transcript

Wall Street Hedge Fund Founder/Prison to Passion - The Chip Skowron Story · Nightmare Success In and Out

0:01
What happens when your worst fear becomes your reality?
0:04
Hi, I'm Brent Cassidy, welcome to the Nightmare Success In and
0:07
Out podcast where we explore how to overcome your fears and
0:11
nightmares that set yourself free.
0:13
We're going to be exploring this topic with guys that was in
0:15
Leavenworth with and others who survived their own nightmare.
0:20
These stories can be inspiring, sometimes sad, there's some
0:24
humor, but hopefully you can come away with a nugget of
0:27
something that'll help you knock down some of the prisons you
0:30
built up in your own mind. All right, welcome back
0:35
nightmare success. And now, listeners, this is
0:38
where you come from. What happens when your worst
0:39
fear becomes your reality? How do you adapt, survive,
0:41
overcome, set yourself free. Don't forget to follow,
0:44
subscribe, share, like do all that stuff that helps the show.
0:48
OK, folks, I've got, I've got a guy here that he's real smart
0:53
and he's an inspiring guy and he's really doing good stuff.
0:57
His name's Chip Skoron and he's got a fascinating story and
1:02
we've been talking for last couple of months.
1:04
I'm really glad that we've been able to connect because he's
1:07
just doing really good work in this, this re entry space.
1:11
And, and I'm all about the whole re entry world and, and seeing
1:14
how we can make it better for the people trying to get back
1:17
into society. But a little bit about Chip,
1:21
he's meaning he's a smart guy. He attended and graduated from
1:25
Yale Medical School. He did it.
1:27
He did his residency in orthopedic surgery at Harvard.
1:32
And then he just totally switched gears.
1:34
I think he got a little bit frustrated with some of the
1:36
things and we could probably maybe talk about a little bit of
1:38
that. But he became a portfolio
1:41
manager at Front Point Partners healthcare funds.
1:44
And as I read it was one of the largest funds on Wall Street.
1:47
It was a big deal. It was it was big time.
1:51
Things got wacky and crazy and and Chip ended up getting
1:56
convicted of insider trading and was sentenced to A5 year federal
1:59
sentence. Chip since then and this guy has
2:03
dedicated himself to giving back, using his experience to
2:07
help others through their re entry journey back into society.
2:11
He's now the CEO of Prison entrepreneurship program, whose
2:15
mission is to transform inmates and executives by unlocking
2:18
human potential through entrepreneurial passion,
2:21
education, mentoring. PE PS groundbreaking results.
2:25
Listen to these results. This isn't really these are
2:27
results that you don't hear about include a return to prison
2:31
rate of less than 5%. So for those out there that
2:34
follow news and and hear the bad narrative, that's that number's
2:38
usually 75%. So this is less than 5%.
2:42
What PE PS doing employment 100% within 90 days.
2:47
That's almost, I mean that when I read that it's unheard of.
2:51
It's, it's incredible and there's been over 100 businesses
2:55
launched. These results are incredible.
2:59
I can't wait to jump into all this with chip.
3:01
Before we do, I want to recognize our show sponsor, Auto
3:04
Plaza Direct. You know, who likes spending a
3:06
couple of weekends walking car lots looking for a car and then
3:10
you, you spend four or five hours in the dealership to buy
3:12
the car. It's kind of like a root canal
3:14
appointment. Well, there's a better way to
3:16
take away all that pain and hassle getting a car.
3:18
It's called auto Plaza direct. They are your personal car
3:21
concierge. Just tell them the car you want,
3:23
what you can pay, and they'll go find that car for you.
3:25
Negotiate your best price. They also offer your warranties
3:28
and financing. It's awful service.
3:29
Go to autoplazadirect.com to get started with your personal car
3:33
concierge the new hassle freeway the carbine experience you
3:36
deserve Auto Plaza direct. Tell them Brent from Nightmare
3:39
Success sent you Chip. Welcome him, my man.
3:42
How are you? Brent, you are pro man that was.
3:45
Really good but what anybody did this chip I.
3:48
Am I am? It's good to be here, Brent.
3:52
Thanks for having me. Well, you know, we were just
3:55
talking. I wish we would sometimes record
3:57
this stuff before we get on because you're in a new position
4:01
and, and I, I couldn't be more excited for you because we're
4:05
going to get into all of your background stuff.
4:07
But you are the right man at the right time in the right spot to
4:11
be doing what you're doing. And, and you've got that
4:14
passion, man. You've got that, that thing.
4:16
When I start talking to you, I thought, man, I want to stay
4:19
connected to Chip because he's got whatever that is.
4:22
You know, when somebody walks into a room, whatever that is,
4:25
you've got that passion vibe and that's, you know, I'm sure
4:28
that's what was your driving force getting you through all
4:32
your stuff as you were growing and doing in your world.
4:35
But take us back a little bit, Jeff.
4:38
I, I've read your background story.
4:41
Tell us about little chip growing up.
4:43
I think you were down in Florida.
4:45
What, what was life like? What was happening in your
4:47
world? I mean, I I grew up in actually
4:51
comparatively very good circumstances.
4:53
My my dad was a rocket scientist.
4:56
You know who's who's? Dad's a rocket scientist.
4:58
No, for the, for real, he moved down to, he moved down to Cocoa
5:03
Beach, FL because he got recruited to, you know, build
5:06
rockets. And my mom and a whole bunch of
5:09
other women were recruited to come down there because they
5:12
needed secretaries and school teachers and all of that.
5:15
So they kind of, you know, the government built this, this
5:18
community out of nothing in a swamp.
5:20
And that's Cape Canaveral and Kennedy Space Center.
5:23
So I grew up, I grew up there and my dad turns out was an
5:25
entrepreneur and, and after 25 years in the space business
5:29
working on Apollo and Minuteman and Beaumark and Atlas and
5:34
Mercury and even the shuttle missions, he left and started
5:40
his own business. He would.
5:41
He became a Long John Silver's franchise.
5:45
How about that? I used to love Long John
5:47
Silvers, the chicken planks and the fries.
5:49
Well. Listen, I used to cook them for
5:50
you. I mean, I put them for guys like
5:52
you because, you know, my dad decided I needed to learn how to
5:55
work. And so when I was 16 years old,
5:58
you know, I had to work in the restaurants and I was a first
6:02
mate dropping hush puppies and chicken planks and fish and all
6:07
of that. And, you know, eventually got to
6:11
the point where he had to fire me.
6:14
What do you mean? Well, you know, look, I mean,
6:19
you know, I was, I was a kid who was, you know, although I was a
6:24
good student and I was, you know, very focused at
6:29
performing. You know, I was also kind of a
6:32
mess inside and, you know, after work let my friends in the back
6:38
door. And you know, in those days,
6:40
Long John Silver had a keg of beer.
6:43
That's great. Beer and.
6:44
Keg of beer for teenagers can go a long ways.
6:47
And and hot grease. And hot grease, Keg of beer and
6:51
hot grease. But I was a, you know, I was AI
6:53
was a troubled kid. So again, on the one hand,
6:56
straight A's and captain of the soccer team and number one on
6:59
the tennis team and all that stuff.
7:00
And on the other hand, severe drug addiction, you know.
7:07
And where did that, where did that come from Chip, like how
7:09
did you find your way into that? Well, I'll tell you I was.
7:13
Because I mean, you almost have to, because I, you know, we both
7:17
played sports in high school and that and, and, and you almost,
7:21
because you have to dedicate yourself to so much time to it
7:24
that you, you almost have to have somebody that pulls you out
7:27
of that. You live 2 separate lives.
7:29
Almost. How did you how'd that happen?
7:32
So, you know, I was aware that I was different in a lot of ways
7:36
and I didn't feel like I fit in. And what I found after that
7:40
first, you know, smoke of a joint was I was accepted.
7:46
And so I started down that journey of just, you know, being
7:51
one of the cool kids trying to fit in and, you know, was able
7:56
to for a long time walk that very, very scary line of
8:02
continuing to keep up the facade and appear to be the guy that
8:06
had it all together while I was falling apart.
8:09
And that was something that would, that's something that
8:10
would echo in my life years later.
8:12
So. My mom hadn't found out.
8:14
No, I was. That's what I was just going to
8:16
ask you, Chip did did was that something that you, you kept so
8:20
secret that your parents didn't know about it?
8:22
Or were they aware of it and they they were trying to help
8:25
you through it? And no, listen, I was.
8:27
I was stealing money from my parents.
8:30
OK, I was. I was, you know, hiding.
8:33
I was living a double life. Yeah.
8:35
And scary that even at that age I was good at it.
8:39
And how old would you been? Well, that it really got bad
8:42
when I was 15. OK.
8:44
And by the time I was 16, that's when my mom found out.
8:49
OK. And then what happened with
8:50
that? Well, I'll tell you, my mom was
8:54
a a born again believer and she did what the Bible said she
8:59
should do. She's she called the elders of
9:00
the church and we went to the church at 10:00 at night, the
9:04
night she found out. And these men laid hands on me
9:07
and prayed for me, and the addiction left.
9:11
I. Never.
9:12
I never touched. I never touched cocaine again.
9:16
I never touched crack again. So what was the next step for
9:21
you? If that was out of your life and
9:23
you were living this double life, how did you take the next
9:28
step forward? So I, you know, although those
9:31
things left me, I was not ready to surrender my life to anybody.
9:37
I needed to be in control because I had to prove to
9:40
everyone, including my dad, that, you know, I could, you
9:45
know, I could be worthy of praise.
9:47
And so for me, that looked like going to medical school.
9:49
And that had been my kind of my life, my guiding post for my
9:53
whole life. It had been the thing that had
9:56
allowed me to endure and propel myself through a whole bunch of
10:00
adversity. But you know, that was the thing
10:04
that kept me going. So, and I think your dad, you
10:08
know, reading about this, you, your dad would have been a tough
10:10
guy to follow. I mean, he, he was, he was a
10:12
doer and, and an entrepreneur and, and a rocket scientist.
10:18
Still isn't. There was a thing that happened,
10:20
and I don't forget where I read it, Chip, where your dad had a
10:24
fall. How old were you when that
10:28
happened? Because that would have been
10:29
pretty. I think that would have really
10:31
shaken up a kid at that, whatever age you would have
10:34
been. My dad was power cleaning the
10:36
second floor of the house and he fell and he was working with my
10:40
older cousin at the time and my older cousin, you know, how to
10:44
look a panic on his face. And I ran outside.
10:46
They were going to call 911 and to get help from my dad.
10:51
And he had fallen between the house and A and a a flight of
10:56
stairs. And so I, I was looking down
10:58
into kind of this pit and seeing my dad crumpled, you know, in
11:03
the bottom of that pit just terrified me.
11:07
You know? You know, I think like many
11:09
kids, you know, my dad was bigger than life.
11:11
I mean, he was a bigger than life guy.
11:14
You know, he was a rocket scientist and he was a
11:16
businessman. And he had people working for
11:19
him and people saluting him. And, you know, he's bigger than
11:22
life. And to see him like that and to
11:26
be helpless, you know, brought me to the place at that moment
11:31
where I made a vow. And I didn't recognize this
11:33
until decades later. But I made a vow that I would
11:36
never be helpless again. And that vow led me to decide to
11:41
go to medical school where I would be equipped and I would
11:45
learn how to manage any situation so that I wouldn't be
11:49
helpless ever again. Wow, it's interesting.
11:52
And were you were you an only child or did you have siblings?
11:58
I had an older sister who was ten years older.
12:01
Oh wow, that's a lot older. Than my mom had from another
12:03
marriage and then a younger sister who was two years
12:07
younger. OK.
12:07
So we're both of them and they're amazing.
12:09
And you were the middle, OK. Well, I kind of grow up as the
12:12
old old. Well, I would think so with 10
12:14
years difference. I mean that's that's a lot
12:16
different. I mean, when you're in school,
12:17
they're way out and you know, that would be different.
12:21
Yeah, I was the typical, you know, oldest child kind of
12:26
performing and, you know, trying to measure up the prodigal son
12:29
child, you know. So what was you like with with,
12:33
you know, your mom going through that?
12:36
You go to medical school. You do.
12:37
Well, I mean, you, you go to Yale.
12:40
You know that that's one of those things where where did you
12:42
go to medical? Oh, I went to Yale.
12:44
I mean, that's a big deal. What was did you feel like that
12:49
that was a climb to the top of the peak there that you had
12:54
conquered whatever this is in your head, that I'm that guy.
13:00
Well, I got a So the entry into that season of my life came
13:05
quite traumatically on the day that the Dean of the medical
13:09
school called to personally welcome me into what they called
13:15
the medical scientist training program, which was in a full
13:17
ride to the medical school. I sat with that information
13:22
that, that phone call, I sat with that for about 20 minutes
13:25
alone. Just as you said, you know, wow,
13:29
this is, this is the pinnacle, this is, this is the my life's
13:32
achievement. Next phone call, 20 minutes
13:36
later was my father telling me my mom had been killed in a car
13:39
accident. Oh my.
13:41
Gosh, and that kind of sent me spinning.
13:45
It kept it, it sent me emotionally into a place that I,
13:49
I had no idea how to recover from.
13:52
And I had already, you know, I'd already largely left home, was
13:57
not really connected to home much anymore.
14:00
And now I was being sent out with this just feeling of
14:05
abandonment, feeling of, you know, betrayal, that God hadn't
14:10
allowed me to share this incredible news with my mom that
14:15
she'd been my biggest cheerleader.
14:16
So yeah, it was a that's. Amazing that that that that
14:21
happened in the in that time sequence.
14:23
That's incredible. Yeah, You know, I was talking
14:25
about it today at lunch. You know it.
14:27
It's the kind of thing, though, that set me up so that every
14:29
good thing that happened to me subsequent to that, I was
14:33
conditioned by that wound to always be expecting the other
14:37
shoe to drop. Something else to happen?
14:39
So I never got I I would, I never really fully enjoyed any
14:42
good thing and. That's because of that.
14:45
You know, innate wound, that fear.
14:49
Well, let's talk about because you, you, you go into not just
14:54
being a doctor, but going overseas and doing surgeries.
14:59
And how did that, how did that even come about?
15:04
Well, I met this. I met this girl who became my
15:08
wife, but her father, my father-in-law had been
15:13
affiliated with a group called Americares in Connecticut, which
15:16
at the time was one of the largest disaster private
15:20
disaster relief organizations in the world.
15:22
And, you know, at the time I was training to be a surgeon and the
15:27
idea of traveling around the world and showing up just in the
15:31
nick of time and, you know, making a difference.
15:34
I mean, it was a, it was a really attractive thing to me.
15:38
So I went on my first trip with them in 1994 and just fell in
15:45
love with people that were hurting and, and so grateful to
15:51
see us show up. It was, I mean, it wasn't, it
15:54
was a really amazing part of my life.
15:58
But you're looking back on it, I will say this, it was, it was
16:04
largely a selfish thing that I was doing.
16:06
I wasn't really doing it for them.
16:10
It was really about me. And I did have amazing
16:14
experiences. I met amazing people and became
16:17
a America has became a very important part of my whole life
16:21
journey. I stayed with them and worked
16:23
with them. I later joined the board and,
16:27
you know, just loved the people and, and they were an amazing
16:33
group of people that loved me when my life fell apart.
16:38
That's interesting. I didn't know that.
16:41
So you take a you take a life turn.
16:46
But it's when I say that is it wasn't outside of your field
16:49
that which is interesting. It was, it was a, you know,
16:53
billion dollar healthcare fund. So it was you had and knew and
16:58
and your history was it, but you had an interest in those fields
17:02
of research. So it wasn't like you just went
17:06
from being a doctor to, you know, a San Francisco tech guy.
17:11
This, this was this was moving into a world where you're there
17:17
was some familiarity, but what made you what made you make that
17:19
jump? You know, there medicine was in
17:23
a state of transition and where I was, where I was training, I
17:29
was looking at these incredible men, these captains of
17:34
healthcare technology. They were developing, pushing
17:36
the boundaries of what was happening in orthopaedics and
17:40
and yet almost to a man. So there weren't, I had no
17:45
female attending surgeons. They were all men.
17:50
I don't I don't know of any that were at the time really happy,
17:55
that seemed happy in their life, in their family life.
18:00
Most of them, you know, their marriages have fallen apart.
18:03
I mean, these were men that were really passionate, committed,
18:07
maybe beyond healthy boundaries to, to the practice of medicine.
18:12
Anyway, So it, it came to the point where I was trying to
18:14
decide, OK, so with the, for the rest of my life, I'm going to be
18:18
a reconstruction guy, a joint reconstruction guy.
18:20
I'm ready to be a spine guy or I'm going to be a trauma guy,
18:22
or, you know, I'm going to start to put myself into a bucket.
18:25
And the prospect of that rest of my life idea really became
18:30
daunting. And, you know, there was a,
18:33
there was a morning when, you know, I was in the hospital and
18:37
I was on call and it was my, my wife and I had had our first
18:41
child and Carly was, we were, they were celebrating Easter and
18:47
I was on call and I couldn't, I couldn't go be with them on
18:51
Easter morning and go to church with them.
18:53
And so, you know, it was kind of one of those moments where I
18:56
said, is this really what I want?
18:57
Am I going to go down this road and, and become one of these
19:00
guys who I can see what this has done to their lives, how it's
19:04
consumed them? And so I didn't know what I was
19:06
going to do. And so I just said, I just
19:08
basically told my, my chairman, who was an amazing guy, doctor,
19:14
Doctor Herndon. And I said, listen, I, you know,
19:16
I don't know what I'm going to do, but I, I need to, I need to
19:19
go figure something out. And he said, listen, we're going
19:22
to give you, we're going to give you a sabbatical.
19:23
We'll give you a year. And I told him, I said, listen,
19:26
I don't, I don't need that. I know I'm, I'm making a change
19:30
here. And so I began to look at other
19:32
industries and, and it just so happened that, you know, I
19:35
didn't know anything about the hedge fund World Zero.
19:37
And I walked into an office in New York and just things went so
19:46
right. I couldn't possibly say no.
19:48
I mean, they made it. They made me an offer I couldn't
19:51
refuse. And they were, and they were
19:54
looking for guys like you. At the time they were yeah, I
19:57
mean and and that, you know, I had no idea what SAC Capital
20:01
was. I had no idea and.
20:05
And so I would moved, moved from Boston down to Connecticut and
20:09
began commuting into New York and went to work way, way over
20:16
my head. But you got really good at it.
20:21
I got good at parts of it and the parts that I wasn't good at,
20:25
I was really, I was really keen on finding people that could do
20:30
those parts. And so a couple years later,
20:33
when the opportunity presented itself, that's when I reached
20:37
out to the people that could plug those holes in my own life
20:42
and my own capability. And we created Front Point
20:45
Healthcare fund. And I mean, I was really good at
20:49
telling the story. And as a group, we were really
20:51
good at managing a portfolio, managing risk and, and it
20:55
resonated and we had, you know, way more success than I could
21:01
have ever dreamed of. And that's the crazy thing about
21:05
your story. You have this incredible success
21:09
and you, you know, you're in a great community.
21:14
It's it's community of success. I mean, there's, there's, you
21:17
know, I, when I, when I was in Nantucket, you know, I was there
21:20
for 18 years. You know, there's there's so
21:22
many layers of and in Connecticut and Greenwich is is
21:26
it's that world, but you moved around in that world and became
21:32
part of that world. When when was it, Chip, that you
21:38
felt like something wasn't right that that or did was it a
21:43
surprise that someone was coming down on you in a way that could
21:49
change your life? Well, I, I was certainly
21:52
intoxicated by the world I was in for sure.
21:56
I was certainly enjoying all of the comforts and the pleasures
22:01
of it. And it was an, a very unhealthy
22:04
place to be. And to a certain extent I was
22:06
aware of it, but I was definitely not going to be able
22:09
to save myself from it. There was no way I would I could
22:11
rescue myself. And when I was, you know, pretty
22:15
far along the road, probably back I'm, I'm going to say
22:19
probably a year and a half before everything blew up, I was
22:24
having a conversation with my older sister.
22:26
And I remember very clearly telling her, So I've, you know,
22:30
I'm married. I have the children, I have the
22:32
house, I have the cars, I have the vacation house.
22:35
I have all these things. Is this all there is to life?
22:40
So all of these things that I've been trying to accumulate, to
22:44
try to satisfy, you know, some vacancy in my soul, none of it
22:51
was meeting that desire, that need.
22:55
I didn't, I didn't know what would.
22:57
And, and yet my sister had a very clear picture at that
23:01
point. And, you know, Cindy began to
23:03
pray for me and she had been praying for me, but now she knew
23:08
things were coming to a head. And, and it wasn't that much
23:12
long longer after that that, you know, was November 4th, 2010,
23:19
that everything came to a stop. I mean a sudden stop.
23:26
So when it came to a sudden stop, was did your wife know
23:31
anything about it, Did the kids know anything about it?
23:34
Or was it one of those things that just hit?
23:37
Well, remember, remember back when I was 15, I was really good
23:41
at living a secret life. So I, I had a secret life.
23:46
And so while there were headlines about a criminal
23:50
investigation, perhaps front point was involved, perhaps this
23:53
guy who was a portfolio manager had been involved.
23:59
Those headlines were certainly daunting, very scary.
24:02
Front page of Wall Street Journal was a big deal.
24:04
There was a lot of embarrassment, a lot of very,
24:09
very uncomfortable. No one had any idea up until
24:12
that day that there was anything criminal going on.
24:16
I knew that it was just the tip of the iceberg, that there was a
24:21
whole bunch more behind that about my life that was really
24:26
rotten. And and so unraveling all of
24:31
that was a process that took months.
24:36
And it was the New Canaan society, this group of men, this
24:43
group of Christian men who I was introduced to, that came around
24:48
me. I did not know them.
24:50
I didn't even know they existed until this had happened.
24:54
And they loved me. And they gave me the room and
24:59
the space to really be real about what was going on.
25:04
Not the headlines, but the real stuff that was going on.
25:09
Because I, I was a mess. You know, I, I was not the
25:13
husband that my thought that my wife thought I was.
25:15
I was not a good father. I was, you know, I was a
25:19
deceiver and a manipulator. And you know, it was, it was not
25:23
pretty. And Chip, how did these guys
25:26
find you? I mean what?
25:27
What was the? Connection.
25:28
To be clear, I didn't even find them.
25:30
I mean, so I was sitting in a meeting one day and at the
25:33
Greenwich Leadership Forum and it was a Friday morning and I'd
25:37
heard about this group and I'm sitting there and the guy next
25:39
to me said, I mean, he just whispers and he had no idea who
25:42
I was. He said, listen, if you think
25:44
this is good, you ought to check out the New Canaan Society.
25:46
And I was like, all right, thanks.
25:48
Appreciate the heads up. I walked out of the door and my
25:51
sister from California calls me. It's 5:00 in the morning, her
25:54
time. And she says, I know where you
25:56
need to go, the New Canaan Society.
25:59
And I said to myself, well, I. Probably ought to check this
26:04
out. Weird enough that I need to go
26:06
figure that out. And when I showed up, I found
26:10
something that I didn't even know.
26:11
I didn't even know it could exist.
26:13
A group of men that gather together on a regular basis and
26:16
are actually authentic, that are are actually real.
26:20
That is not something that was part of my life at all.
26:22
You know, you go to work and you have to put on a front.
26:25
It doesn't matter what's going on at home.
26:27
You have to show up and be the captain.
26:29
And then, you know, if you're out with your buddies and you
26:32
know you're doing that, you're not, you're not sharing the
26:36
trouble in your life or your business with them.
26:38
It's, you know, you just go from one.
26:40
I was going from one basically performance to another.
26:45
How long? How long did the nightmare part
26:48
of getting noticed, being indicted to figuring out being
26:54
sentenced? How long did that take?
26:56
Well, so November was the awareness of the criminal
27:00
investigation. It was August.
27:04
So from November to August was the journey of coming to faith,
27:11
confessing everything, and then pleading guilty.
27:15
Being indicted and pleading pleading guilty, which you know
27:18
in in federal indictment land, is like the shortest time ever.
27:23
I was I was just going to say that's I went six years.
27:26
That's the short. Those are months in that year,
27:29
But you know the IT doesn't it doesn't change anything.
27:33
You know, the the fight is the same.
27:36
You wake up with it, you go to bed with it and then you've
27:40
you've finally realized it. OK, then I'm going to do this
27:42
plea. How, how did that all handle out
27:48
and with your, your wife and kids and all that was going on?
27:54
Because obviously it affects you.
27:55
But when I, when somebody goes to prison, their family
27:58
basically goes to prison because everybody has to handle that in
28:01
their own way. And I'm just saying that from
28:02
experience. I have, you know, three
28:04
daughters and a wife and, and we all had to go through it in our
28:07
own way. I went to prison, but they were
28:09
on prison on the outside. And it, how was it for you and
28:12
your family? Because you guys took you,
28:15
you're one of the small percentage where you guys stayed
28:19
together. Yeah, and, and by the way,
28:22
that's all God and my wife. I mean, I get no credit in that.
28:30
The credit I get is burning the marriage to the ground.
28:33
And the time frame is one where, you know, the New Canaan society
28:39
becomes a part of my life. I, I come to a, a completely new
28:47
relationship with God. I, I mean, I had no idea how
28:52
religious religiousness had basically, you know, shackled me
28:57
from my whole life and, and suddenly I come into a, a saving
29:01
relationship with Jesus. That was in April that led me to
29:06
really a profound month of really being able to see just
29:13
how at least a glimpse of how broken my life really was, of
29:18
the lies and the deceit and the just the the mess that my life
29:23
was and then confessing that. Then it came to the point where,
29:29
OK, you have to make a decision. Everybody who goes through this
29:31
has to make a decision. The decision is very simple.
29:33
Are you going to cooperate the government and get other people
29:36
in trouble? Are you going to plead guilty or
29:38
are you going to fight and plead innocent and try to get a trial?
29:42
Everybody who goes through this has to make that decision.
29:45
The decision was being made by me at a meeting in the Bank of
29:51
America building in New York on the day that the earthquake
29:55
struck Washington, DC and damaged the Washington Monument.
30:00
That was the day they evacuated the building we were in.
30:05
And I was in the midst of making the decision.
30:09
And they evacuated the building. We were the only ones left in
30:11
the building. Our lawyer said just stay here,
30:13
it'll be fine. And I said, I'll do it.
30:17
I'll plead guilty. I'll go to prison.
30:20
And that was, that was the beginning of then they go back
30:24
to the prosecutors, they make the they have the conversation,
30:27
OK, we're willing to plead guilty to this.
30:29
And, and that set up everything that follows.
30:33
So that's the the plea. And then you go through the pre
30:37
sentencing report and, and that portion of it.
30:40
And then you have the sentencing and then you report to prison.
30:43
And that took from August until January 6th, OK.
30:48
And I reported to prison after Christmas and New Year's
30:50
January. Yeah, yours, yours is like my I
30:52
got five years and I reported January 14th of 2014.
30:55
So I went through the whole, you know, almost like dead man
30:58
walking through Thanksgiving and Christmas, and it's just a a
31:03
really strange. Thing and no one would ever
31:05
listen to us, but I guarantee you would give the same advice.
31:08
Listen, just go in, yeah? Get started.
31:13
Get us started. Well, I want to talk about, I
31:16
want to talk about the getting in and before we do, I want to
31:20
recognize Nightmare Success Podcast is sponsored by the
31:23
White Collar Support Group, the world's first support group
31:26
devoted to people navigating the white collar criminal justice
31:30
system. I'm a member of the White Collar
31:32
Support Group and I can tell you there's a bunch of people who
31:35
help each other through the criminal justice journey for
31:37
free. Whether you're just starting
31:39
your journey or you've made it through to the other side, this
31:42
is a great space for you. You can join us on Zoom Mondays,
31:46
7:00 PM Eastern, 4:00 PM Pacific.
31:49
For information, go to prisonist.org.
31:52
That's prisonist.org. Start here.
31:54
So you're, it's so true. You feel like, you know, once
31:59
you're sentenced, you just want to start, you just want to get
32:01
going, to get, you know, time clock, start, go.
32:07
Well, for me, that was in retrospect, yeah.
32:10
At the time I wanted to stay out.
32:11
Well, sure. Exactly.
32:13
No, that's and and the you, well, I mean, tell me a little
32:17
bit like leading up to like the night before you went, what,
32:21
what was that like for you? So, I mean, certainly one of the
32:24
scariest seasons was in the days and weeks before the indictment,
32:30
right? Because you didn't know if they
32:31
were going to rappel down off the roof and come in with TV
32:35
cameras and SWAT teams and hold your children at gunpoint,
32:39
right? I mean, that was a real concern.
32:43
But in the in the, in the weeks before reporting, you know, I
32:48
was feeling very, I was aware that there was a huge transition
32:53
about to happen in my life. And I didn't know how prison was
32:56
going to affect me. I had no clue.
32:58
But I knew it was going to be profound.
33:00
So I was in a mode of really sending messages to my future
33:05
self and to my children. My, my kids were young, right?
33:08
My, my oldest was 12, my youngest was 5.
33:12
And I was basically abandoning them for, for what would amount
33:18
to four or five years. And so I was writing letters,
33:23
making videos for them, telling them how much I love them and
33:27
really spending a lot of time on my knees praying about what
33:32
would what would be coming and that it wouldn't be for a wasted
33:36
season. You know, I, I, the way I was
33:39
looking at this, I, I gone to college for four years.
33:41
I had done seven years getting my medical degree and my PHDI
33:45
had done four years of orthopedic residency.
33:48
You know, I could do four years. Like I, I know what those blocks
33:52
of time look like. And this is just another season
33:55
of growth, maturity and an opportunity to do something that
34:00
I do not want to do, but I'm going to have to do it.
34:04
So I may as well buck up and, you know, go do it.
34:07
And and my goodness, those four years were the best education of
34:12
my life. And I got to tell you because
34:16
you and I have talked about this and I've read about what you've
34:19
said. It is that's probably one of the
34:21
biggest surprises about going into prison is that you find
34:23
that there's some really good people in there.
34:26
You know, my thought was what you see is I was standing at the
34:29
gates of Leavenworth thinking, OK, I'll get a I'm probably get
34:32
in a fight maybe, you know, do I get raped?
34:35
Do I mean you, you think all these crazy things?
34:38
Am I going to get stabbed? And.
34:40
You know you are a handsome man, Brent.
34:45
But when I get down to the camp, though, it's like immediately
34:48
I've got this buck mate, that's, you know, he's helping me clean
34:54
my locker and show me how to make my bed.
34:56
And he's, it's like 100 percent, 180° different than what I had
35:01
even thought within the first hour.
35:04
And you know, that's, I think one of the greatest things that
35:07
stays with me is the perspective I gained from that, that I
35:12
always want to hear the story because, you know, these people
35:16
who had were in there have these incredible background stories
35:20
that hardly ever get told. And and the judgement part of
35:25
things is I always just want to, you know, hear what's your
35:28
story, because his story is so interesting and and the
35:31
background and the environment and everything of how somebody
35:34
gets to where they are. But anyway, you you walk in and
35:38
I something interesting happens is the guy comes up to you and
35:42
says I'm Chip. Yeah, now that's to me blows my
35:46
mind because. Because.
35:48
There's lots of us in the world. Yeah.
35:51
And I meet Chip. So.
35:53
So this guy, Chip Trimble, who remains a very dear friend of
35:56
mine, but yeah, he was the guy. And what?
35:58
As I said, hey, I'm Chip and he go oh he puts his hand out first
36:02
and said I'm Chip and I said oh I'm Chip too and he goes,
36:06
remember that? Remember your chip too.
36:08
I'm chip 1 immediately his head goes, but then he looked at my
36:13
Bible Brent and he said just remember all things work
36:17
together for the good and I said back to him for those who love
36:22
God and are called according to his purpose and he said my
36:24
brother and he embraced me and that's how I was welcomed as you
36:29
were by a brother who was showing you and taking care of
36:32
you. And that's what I found largely
36:35
throughout my entire journey there.
36:37
I was involved and cared. For Chip, here's the thing that
36:39
I find fascinated about your experience and I wanted to talk
36:42
to you about it because when you started pulling guys into your
36:49
world orbit of, of them being vulnerable, that's not something
36:53
that's very common in prison. I mean, I, I noticed in RDAP
36:56
that there was some vulnerability that happened and,
36:58
and it didn't leave, you know, after that it didn't leave the
37:01
room, but you were doing it at the bunt side area where, you
37:07
know, these guys were totally voluntary.
37:10
But you were creating a society within a Society of people who
37:14
were giving and taking and being very vulnerable in a space that,
37:21
you know, people try to put on a face in prison that, you know,
37:26
don't bother me, I won't bother you.
37:28
It's about respect, all that kind of stuff.
37:30
But how did how did that evolve? Well, I mean, it started before
37:35
I went in. It started with the New Canaan
37:37
society, with these men modeling what that could look like.
37:41
And like I said, I'd never seen men do that before.
37:44
I'd never seen a man get up and start to talk about his life and
37:47
then begin to weep in front of other men and have men come
37:50
around him and, and hug him and pray for I mean, that's not
37:54
that's not the model of manhood that I was shown, right.
37:57
And. We see that as weakness as what
38:00
we're taught. Yeah, in in the society that
38:03
we've grown up in as men can't weep.
38:05
We've men have to stand strong and and vulnerability is is a
38:08
weak thing. And all those things that, that
38:11
you roll around in your head and, and, and we're grown up
38:14
that way. Well, Brett, your, I mean, and
38:17
so this is just one of many things that I learned how in the
38:22
Kingdom of heaven, almost almost everything I'm, I, I mean, I, it
38:27
could be everything, but almost everything so far that I've,
38:30
I've seen is turned upside down. And so, yes, I was taught that
38:36
being strong meant, you know, stiff up her lip, keep marching
38:39
forward, you know, put a smile on your face.
38:43
And where now I have come to learn that it actually takes an
38:46
extraordinary strength to be able to stand there and and weep
38:51
and bury your soul in front of a man.
38:54
Anyway, So in prison, what happened was, you know, despite
38:58
the fact that I was going to church now in prison and I was
39:01
participating in Bible studies and I was, you know, I was part
39:04
of the praise and worship team. I was doing all these things.
39:07
I didn't have the kind of relational intimacy, the
39:12
closeness with other people there yet that I was really,
39:15
really missing that I, I felt I needed in my soul.
39:19
And so I was lonely despite all those things that I was doing.
39:23
And I was praying about that. I was actually asking God to
39:27
send me a friend. And one night a man walked into
39:30
my cell. His name was Biggs.
39:32
And and I was not evangelizing or proselytizing.
39:37
I was, I was depleted. I was depressed and the only,
39:42
the only thing I had the energy to really talk about was how
39:45
Jesus was my hope. And I don't even remember what
39:48
the conversation was like, but it lasted for four hours.
39:50
And when they called count, you know, you know, the bridge
39:53
between dinner and count time is like, you know, three hours.
39:56
And that time went by so fast that when they called count, it
40:01
was like we both came out of a trance and we were like, whoa,
40:04
what just happened? He left.
40:07
And the next morning when I saw him, he came up to me and he
40:10
was. And he's now if.
40:12
I remember right ship he he was the record producer.
40:17
I can't remember the record label.
40:21
Rockefeller Record. Jay-Z Yeah, yeah, yeah.
40:23
So I mean, I didn't know who that was either.
40:25
And I didn't know him. Everyone else knew him, but I
40:28
didn't, right? But he came up to me the next
40:30
morning and said, what did you do to me?
40:32
I was like, no bigs. I mean, what do you mean?
40:36
He said, listen, you know, I've been floating around all night.
40:40
My body feels like it's tingling and I can't stop thinking about
40:43
Jesus. And I said, well, that's, that
40:47
wasn't me. That's the Holy Spirit and we
40:49
should probably talk. And that was that was the that
40:52
became the, that friendship became the nucleus of this
40:55
relational fellowship. That was, I mean, we were two.
41:01
Guys on the opposite side of the world.
41:03
We were so excited, all of us, everyone who joined that group
41:07
and we still communicate. In fact, I just hired my my
41:10
bunkie from that group to work with us here and.
41:14
I love that. We were just, we were so excited
41:19
to be together, whether it was, you know, breakfast in the gym
41:24
and work out, you know, whatever it was, we, we just wanted to be
41:28
together and, and people began to notice and pretty soon, you
41:34
know, some crazy things started to happen in the prison.
41:39
And, and that was not, none of that was intentional.
41:42
It was just the joy of being together.
41:45
And that was all born out of the New Canaan society.
41:49
It's just, it's just that, that almost that spark in prison
41:52
lights a fire. It's like there's dry kindling
41:54
in prison, whereas out here it's kind of damp.
41:57
So it takes more. Yeah, because everybody's right
42:00
here. You know, that's why it can be
42:03
easily triggered in prison. You know, the people are just
42:05
right there. And, and, and if you can throw
42:07
something good in that arena, then then then it's a, it's a,
42:12
it's something that can really attach itself, which is so it's
42:17
this thing grows when you're getting, when you're getting
42:21
close to getting out, getting released.
42:24
You've had all this experience with this prison world that has
42:27
really actually been something that I can tell by the way you
42:30
talk about it. If it filled you up, what were
42:34
you thinking as you were stepping out?
42:35
What were you thinking? This is going to be something in
42:38
my world that I'm going to do or what was what was Chip thinking
42:44
as you were getting close to the door?
42:45
Cause a lot of weird things happen when you're getting close
42:47
to the door. You know, it's like, Oh my God,
42:49
I'm going back out. I hope I didn't turn into
42:51
prison, Brett. But but I mean, what?
42:54
What were you thinking? I was, so I was focused on, you
43:01
know #1 figuring out how I could love my wife and, and begin to
43:06
repair that damage. Being reconnected with my family
43:11
was important. But yes, so in terms of like
43:14
what I was going to do, my only thought was no matter what I do,
43:22
being with and, and being a part of prison ministry is going to
43:27
be right there with me that that is always going to be something
43:31
no matter what. And what happened was I, I came
43:35
out and it was just so much worse than I could ever have
43:41
imagined. And, and I didn't understand, I
43:43
guess how dependent and I don't know, connected I was to the
43:52
fellowship on the inside. And so when I came out and I
43:55
didn't have that, I mean, I had some semblance of it.
43:57
I started going to Bible study and, and even the New Canaan
44:00
society, although it was good, it was just a dim shadow of what
44:05
I had had on the inside. So it felt like a very dry
44:08
place. And, you know, things at home
44:10
were very challenging. So, you know, life was hard man.
44:13
And, and that, that's what led me, you know, in my mind.
44:17
And I know it leads many, many guys who come home 'cause I, I
44:20
talk with them all the time, everyday to say I'd just be
44:24
better off back inside. Yeah, 'cause you know, the fact
44:27
of the matter is I at least know there I'm known and loved and
44:31
yes, I don't have freedoms and I don't have all these other
44:32
things that you. Felt you felt alienated on the
44:35
outside, you felt shunned and and the re entry was a lot
44:38
harder than anybody can ever explain.
44:41
Yeah. Yeah, crazy, crazy hard.
44:43
And you know that, you know, these, these conversations and,
44:45
and however you want to measure recidivism aside, whatever you
44:50
think the number is, we always frame the question in terms of,
44:53
you know, oh, how, how can we get the, the recidivism rate is
44:56
so high at 70%. And you and I talked about this.
44:59
My, my view is that actually it's 70%.
45:02
And considering what these guys come home to, that's actually
45:06
remarkably low. It's pretty, it's pretty
45:08
incredible and and you know, it kind of leads you back to the,
45:11
the, the always brings me to when we're talking about re
45:14
entry, that whole thing's with Brooks and Red and Shawshank.
45:17
You know, Brooks, you know, he just decided it wasn't for him.
45:23
And and, you know, he checked out and the difference with Red
45:27
was is he had Andy Dufrane who had given him hope.
45:31
And instead of, you know, he looked up with that, you know,
45:34
the beam that Brooks hung himself from.
45:38
And he decided that he was going to go check out what Andy talked
45:42
about. And you know, Andy said, if
45:43
you've made it this far, then then you got to go further.
45:47
And, and the whole thing from that point on red is all about I
45:50
hope, I hope, I hope. And I think, I think that's the
45:55
biggest piece of, of re entry is, is that a lot of people just
46:00
lose hope. They don't have a, a reason to
46:04
take that next step because there's so many barriers.
46:07
So they just turn back around and or worse or worse.
46:11
Things I've learned about hope is Brent, you know, if you and I
46:14
had come out together, there are days where I could borrow your
46:17
hope. Sure, absolutely.
46:19
And that's the beauty of that community, right?
46:22
I mean that community, if, if somebody falls, I mean, that
46:26
community is not going to let you stay on the ground.
46:28
We're going to pick you up. And I didn't have that.
46:31
And what I found in this journey of prison ministry is that
46:37
they're actually a whole bunch of organizations that are really
46:41
committed and determined to picking guys up when they come
46:44
out. And unfortunately, the
46:47
institutional barriers are so profound and there are so many
46:51
guys that there are literally hundreds of thousands that are
46:54
still completely abandoned. Or they just don't know where to
46:57
go. And I, I think that's really
47:01
part of your inspiring journey is, is that you recognize that
47:06
you started going back in because you, you were feeling
47:09
like you were missing something and you started going back into
47:11
the prison. Yeah, within, within two.
47:14
Well, I, I tried to go back in. So I started a prison ministry
47:18
and everyone was approved to go in except me, including other
47:23
guys who were on probation by the way.
47:25
So. What was the deal?
47:26
I didn't know this story. Don't we still don't know?
47:30
We don't. Know, but I can say this, that
47:34
that season of not being able to go in as hard as it was gave me
47:41
the focus of praying over the ministry.
47:45
So I would show up at the prison, I would pray over
47:48
everyone and then they would go in and then they would come out
47:51
and they would share with me what happened.
47:53
So my only participation was my prayer participation.
47:59
And the fact of the matter is by faith, I know this, that my
48:04
prayerful participation with anything, including raising my
48:07
children, my marriage, all of those things, my prayerful
48:10
participation is in fact the most important thing I could do.
48:14
So that year and a half, two years of not being able to
48:18
physically participate on the inside was actually very
48:20
instructive to me, as hard as it was.
48:23
I mean, I would leave after praying and and literally weep
48:26
as I walked in my car in the parking lot because those guys
48:29
were getting to go be with my brothers and I couldn't go.
48:31
Did people around you in your world on the outside think you
48:34
were crazy, That you're. Still do, did they?
48:40
Come on, nobody thinks you're crazy, but yeah, you're fried,
48:46
dude. You've got a you've got a guy.
48:48
What I mean, though, Jip is a guy that, you know, live in the
48:53
way that you were living in a, in the, in the place that you
48:56
were living and you're, you do your time and then you want to
49:02
go back in. And I'm sure people just didn't
49:05
understand that in a way that you could probably explain it,
49:11
that they could understand. I, I, I, I'm thinking that those
49:14
people became an outside bubble of your world, and this world
49:19
became your, your real world. I think that's I think that's
49:22
true, although, you know, we're often called to go be in those
49:27
places that are outside our bubble and I spend a lot of time
49:30
there. But you know, in the same way
49:32
that, you know, a a fighting man you know, signs up to go back to
49:37
the front line after his tour is over.
49:39
Doesn't make any sense, right? In the same way that we know
49:43
there are stories of rescued women from brothels who get put
49:48
up into a hotel but they go back to the brothel, it is.
49:51
It is not about my physical safety that determines where I'm
49:54
safe. I feel safe where I'm known and
49:57
loved. And for me, that place, more
49:59
than any is prison. Yeah, well, the thing of it is,
50:04
is that what I what's so encouraging is, is that I'm not
50:09
sure how how PEP and you found each other, but what they're
50:15
doing and what you're doing and how you guys came together seems
50:18
like a match made in heaven. Because the, the all the
50:22
experiences that you had over these years.
50:24
And then you you get into an organization that has the real
50:28
purpose of mentoring and showing people how to to take it to the
50:32
next step or build a business or all these things that are so, so
50:36
important to re entry. And you already understand that.
50:42
How did that all happen? Well, I, I can't say exactly any
50:47
of us know how the original contact was made.
50:49
So honestly, nobody really remembers.
50:51
It was five years ago. They asked me to come speak and
50:54
at the time they, they presented me obviously with an opportunity
50:58
to speak, which you know, about guys who were coming home from
51:01
prison that and entrepreneurship.
51:02
That's an interesting topic. But the thing that really
51:05
intrigued me, the thing that really grabbed me was they had
51:08
started a community development financial institution called
51:13
Entree Capital. And I said, well, what is that?
51:17
And they said, listen, we understand that guys coming home
51:19
are basically prevented institutionally from having
51:23
access to the banking sector. And I had Brent I the week
51:29
before. I'd just been kicked out of my
51:31
third bank. You knew it real well.
51:35
And you know, all of the fear and all of the ideas, well, how
51:38
am I ever going to fill in the blank if I can't have a bank
51:42
account? And suddenly these guys had a,
51:44
an institution ACDFI that was going to only loan money to men
51:49
who would come home from prison, who wanted to start businesses
51:51
huge. I so I immediately said I'm
51:54
going to be your first investor and I'm coming.
51:58
Well, that was, I mean, that was five years ago and now.
52:03
The. Entree Capital reports.
52:05
To me, it's crazy how this works, and it is.
52:09
It is an institution that, among other things that are happening
52:13
across the country, has been created because of a an
52:17
institutional problem with our society.
52:21
And is it national? It is right now.
52:23
It's in Texas. OK, because everything that
52:26
you're doing, Chip, I want to be national.
52:32
And the reason I say that, Chip is because I I have the
52:37
opportunity it with this show that I get so many people that
52:41
are doing so many great things, but it's all like in silos.
52:44
You know, there's, there's really good stuff going over
52:46
here in Michigan, and then there's Jay Jordan over in
52:48
California and then there's Tara Simmons, who I interviewed.
52:53
She's doing incredible things up in Washington.
52:56
I would love to see something like this of what you're doing
53:00
to be able to spread out and become a national thing because
53:04
it's needed everywhere. It's it's, it's important.
53:07
The fact of the matter what you just said, Brent, is absolutely
53:10
true. There are great people doing
53:13
great work around, but what there has not been yet is that
53:17
critical, that tipping point where we get together and begin
53:21
to have a collective voice. One voice.
53:23
And really learn from each other and that collaborative kind of
53:28
spirit that, you know, we look to foster here.
53:31
Yeah, it's going to happen. I, I, I feel a momentum.
53:34
I know you do too. Well, and I think that, you
53:36
know, there's just too many out there.
53:38
You know, it's 26,000,000, some say 70 million.
53:41
There's there's a huge number, you know, we're talking about
53:43
330 million in the United States.
53:45
So it's a big number. If it could come as A1 voice
53:48
thing somehow, one umbrella under and everybody can get what
53:52
they need, it would be big And but I it's people like you Chip,
53:56
that are doing what you're doing that makes that idea possible
54:00
and and. Hopefully.
54:02
You don't run out of gas because, well, we need you out
54:05
there doing it. I I have food that you do not
54:08
know of no, I, I will say this and I and I know you are my
54:13
brother about this. I am convinced that the great
54:17
leadership that is going to be forged and is being forged in
54:23
those dark places, in those prison cells, those men and
54:28
women that come out will be the ones that lead our society into
54:32
that next great place where where men and women are willing
54:36
to sacrifice for each other. Where it is not about my
54:39
well-being, it's about the well-being of my neighbor, you
54:43
know, and welcoming home and loving those on the margins of
54:47
our society becomes the hallmark of our society.
54:51
Amen. That's so true.
54:54
Well, Chip, after everything that you've been through and I
54:58
mean it's been a journey for the listeners out there, what do you
55:02
think is your greatest take away through all this?
55:07
My greatest take away is that as a believer, as a follower of
55:12
Jesus, the good news that I have received means that I am
55:19
empowered, enabled, actually mandated to go and actually
55:25
enjoy and promote the prospering of everyone around me.
55:30
It is not contingent on whether they, you know, believe what I
55:33
believe or not or see things the way I see it or not.
55:37
It is my privilege to go and to love people regardless of where
55:42
they've come from, how they speak, what their traditions
55:45
are. You know, I just get to go and,
55:48
and actually promote their thriving.
55:52
And you know, if there's anything here at the Prison
55:54
Entrepreneurship program that we're focused on, it's upward
55:58
economic mobility, right? We don't like to measure metrics
56:02
of, of failure. We want to see thriving.
56:05
And, and I really do think that, you know, as believers, we
56:11
should be keenly interested in human thriving.
56:14
Yes. I mean, that's what it is and
56:16
and that. Becomes everything better.
56:18
Right. That becomes the attraction.
56:19
There's there's no, there's no. But you have to do this first.
56:25
That's. Right.
56:28
It's just come as you are. I love it.
56:31
It's a great answer. I knew you'd give me a great
56:33
answer on that chip. Well.
56:36
You didn't. You didn't give me a.
56:39
Moment to bring you on the spot so with PEP, how what's the best
56:46
way that somebody who's listening to this how can how
56:49
can they reach out and help? What's pep.org?
56:52
It's yeah go to the best. Way to do it?
56:53
Yeah, 100%. We have you know, the the thing
56:57
that I love about being here is that we have a staff that is
57:01
almost to a person, We have two staff members I believe that
57:05
have not done time. So we have about 35 staff
57:09
members and anyone who calls and is interested in being a part of
57:16
this community, look, this is a staff that knows how precious
57:20
that is. So we welcome anyone who wants
57:24
to. Whether it's time, treasure or
57:25
talent doesn't matter. I love it.
57:27
We value it all. Well, you just said your, your
57:29
bunkmate is coming on board, which is, is, is awesome.
57:35
And, and, and I think that we just hit on something to chip
57:38
that I think is one of the things that's missing in a lot
57:40
of these organizations. It's a lot of people that
57:42
haven't experienced that getting some of those people around the
57:45
table that have walked in all these places and they're they're
57:49
talking about the solutions because they know what the
57:52
issues are. That also speeds things up.
57:56
It really does, yeah. It helps us be wise.
57:59
It helps us be wise. We, we do things and, and you
58:03
know, I, we, we both seen the government try to take
58:07
affirmative steps and because they are not wise, they wind up
58:11
hurting. Yeah, well, as opposed to
58:14
actually helping. A lot of the barriers are there.
58:17
I mean, a lot of the barriers that are there for reentry have
58:19
been created through legislation.
58:21
And, and, and it's, it's, it's a, it's one of those things.
58:25
I remember interviewing Jay Jordan and he, he brought in
58:28
California a whole wall and up to Sacramento and it was a huge
58:32
wall. And it was all the barriers of
58:35
statutes for re entry. And the legislators came out to
58:38
look at the wall and they said, I just can't believe that this
58:40
is right. How could we have this many laws
58:43
that, that, that stop you from getting back into society?
58:46
But he, you know, in the course of things, Jay Jordan is, is one
58:49
of the doers and you know, 44 laws have been changed because
58:53
of him. But Chip, thanks so much for
58:58
being on the show. It's it's I appreciate you
59:00
taking your time. I want to also think Homestead
59:03
Financial lets me use all this fancy stuff in here.
59:06
If if you've got home mortgage needs, Greg Aftiev is your guy.
59:09
He knows all that stuff. I know it's a hassle, but if you
59:13
got time, the reviews on Apple and I love it when you guys go
59:17
do it and we've got a bunch of them on there, but it puts the
59:19
show on steroids. If you want to know anything
59:21
more about me, go to Brent Cassidy dot dot com.
59:24
I spell it wrong. I spelled with a Ty instead of a
59:27
DY. Yeah, I was growing up.
59:29
I wanted to be shot in David. And then there's there's no
59:32
relation at all, as I used to say when I was writing my emails
59:39
back and forth from Leavenworth. Stay strong.
59:41
I'll do the same, Chip. Thanks, my man.
59:44
I love your mission. Keep it going, man.
59:46
Thanks brother. Nine more success, in and out.