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NICK REINER'S "TELL-ALL" BOOK, TRIPLE SHACKLED, NO REMORSE IN COURT · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Nick Reiner, the son of Hollywood icon Rob Reiner, and
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Speaker 1: court on double murder charges in the last hours. This
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Speaker 1: as we learn, he is writing a tell all book
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Speaker 1: about his parents, deep dark Hollywood secrets, writing it from
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Speaker 1: behind bars. What well he's in court chiples, shackled and
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Speaker 1: showing no remorse. Good evening, I Nancy Grace, this is
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Speaker 1: Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us.
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Speaker 2: He struggled with mental health issues most of his life.
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Speaker 2: He struggled with a lot, and there were times when
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Speaker 2: some things that he said were just a little odd.
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Speaker 2: It's just unthinkable. It's unfathomable. These are two parents that
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Speaker 2: were absolutely fantastic. We're loving, compassionate.
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Speaker 1: Joining us Life at the courthouse. Crime Stories investigative reporter
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Speaker 1: Alexis Terreschuk. Alexis, what happened? First of all? Was Nick
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Speaker 1: Reiner behind a glass cage or was he seated flanked
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Speaker 1: by his lawyers in court?
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Speaker 3: He was seated flanked by his lawyer in court. This
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Speaker 3: is the first hearing that he's had where he was
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Speaker 3: not behind protective glass. A sheriff put gloves on, went
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Speaker 3: in the back, escorted him out. He was wearing a
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Speaker 3: yellow prison shirt. Very baggy yellow prison shirt, blue prison pants,
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Speaker 3: and then his arms were shackled round the wrist to
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Speaker 3: his waist. He walked to the seat next to his
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Speaker 3: attorney and sat down there facing the judge.
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Speaker 1: Tell me which attorneys were flanking him in court.
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Speaker 3: He actually sat next to Kimberly Green, his public defender.
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Speaker 1: Guys joining us to the courthouse, Alexis Terrezchuk with the
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Speaker 1: latest on Nick Reiner in court. We're going to get
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Speaker 1: to his tell all book that he is peeling behind
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Speaker 1: bars about his dead parents that he reportedly murdered in
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Speaker 1: their sleep, slitting their throats. This sounds like a Holly
2:00
Speaker 1: would screenplay. We have a preliminary hearing to set up
2:03
Speaker 1: a preliminary hearing. That's how they talked to each other.
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Speaker 1: I'll have my agent call your agent, My people call
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Speaker 1: your people, will have a call to set up a call.
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Speaker 1: Why did we have a preliminary hearing to set up
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Speaker 1: a preliminary hearing, Alexis Tereschuk, what happened?
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Speaker 3: So what happened was the defense says they are still
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Speaker 3: waiting on discovery from the prosecution. They said they still
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Speaker 3: are waiting for this and they therefore could not set
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Speaker 3: up to the preliminary hearing today because they don't have
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Speaker 3: all of the evidence yet.
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Speaker 1: Alexis Tereschuk. Who else was in the courtroom? Did Reiner's
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Speaker 1: family show up?
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Speaker 3: There were no family members in the courtroom today, with
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Speaker 3: just reporters, the spokesperson from the district's attorney's office.
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Speaker 4: That was it. He had no family support there today.
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Speaker 1: Did he look around to see if family was there?
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Speaker 3: What was his demeanor when he walked into the courtroom.
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Speaker 3: He looked out into the gallery. He looked to see
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Speaker 3: who was there, see if anybody. He then sat down
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Speaker 3: with his attorney. He looked straightforward the entire time. At
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Speaker 3: one point he leaned over to whisper to his attorney
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Speaker 3: and then he sort of looked back behind him into
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Speaker 3: the courtroom. But the rest of the time he was
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Speaker 3: facing forward, very stoic look on his face, no emotion whatsoever.
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Speaker 1: Okay, does that include remorse?
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Speaker 4: Correct?
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Speaker 3: When the judge asked him if he understood what was
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Speaker 3: going on, he said yeah. Then he asked him again,
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Speaker 3: do you agree that this is what's going on? The
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Speaker 3: judge explained that it's part of the legal system that
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Speaker 3: he has to agree to postpone the preliminary hearing, and
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Speaker 3: it enters into certain times, and it was a bit
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Speaker 3: of a complicated discussion, and so he leaned over to
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Speaker 3: his attorney who kind of whispered him and explained basically
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Speaker 3: that we're not doing the preliminary hearing today. We're moving
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Speaker 3: the date to another date in September. Even then, that's
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Speaker 3: not the preliminary hearing. That's when we're going to set
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Speaker 3: a date for the preliminary hearing.
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Speaker 4: And then he said yeah, back to the.
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Speaker 3: Judge and one more time. The judge said, okay, so
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Speaker 3: do you understand everything?
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Speaker 1: And he said, yeah, so clearly understanding what was going on.
4:02
Speaker 1: Philip du Bay joining me from this jurisdiction of La
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Speaker 1: He is a former quart appointing Council there in La
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Speaker 1: County Public Defender's Office, which means he has tried a
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Speaker 1: lot of cases, all of them as a defense attorney,
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Speaker 1: including homicide cases. Debate. Thank you for being with us tonight.
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Speaker 1: This is significant. It's got to be on the record.
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Speaker 1: There has to be a court reporter writing it all down,
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Speaker 1: every single word, precisely for appellate reasons if there ever
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Speaker 1: is a conviction, because in our jurisprudence under American law,
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Speaker 1: you have a right to a hearing, and in court
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Speaker 1: hearing before an impartial magistrate where you are kept apprized
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Speaker 1: of everything that's happening in your case. In this case,
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Speaker 1: there is a delay in the preliminary hearing, and in
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Speaker 1: our system, you have a right to be read your indictment,
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Speaker 1: know what you're being charged with, confront witnesses against you
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Speaker 1: have a right to cross examine them. You have a
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Speaker 1: right to review scientific evidence such as the audio reports,
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Speaker 1: and you get to find out all about the witnesses
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Speaker 1: and their locations in case you want to interview them.
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Speaker 1: That is why it was very important that he be
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Speaker 1: advised there was going to be a delay in that
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Speaker 1: preliminary hearing.
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Speaker 5: That's exactly right, Nancy. In California, every criminal defendant charge
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Speaker 5: with a felony has a statutory right to a speedy
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Speaker 5: preliminary hearing, and that ultimately means that the defendant has
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Speaker 5: the right to have his prelim within ten court days
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Speaker 5: of arraignment. However, the defendant can waive that statutory period
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Speaker 5: and ask for more time. So when he was arraigned
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Speaker 5: in February, through his council, they asked for a preliminary
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Speaker 5: hearing setting, which is a fancy way of saying a
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Speaker 5: pre prelim hearing almost like a pre trial hearing for
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Speaker 5: today as a zero of thirty, meaning he has thirty
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Speaker 5: court days from today to have his preliminary hearing unless
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Speaker 5: he again wishes more for more time, and through his counsel,
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Speaker 5: they ask for yet another continuance because they don't have everything,
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Speaker 5: and Nancy, I can tell you just historically, nobody goes
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Speaker 5: to prelim so quickly from the date of arrangement in
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Speaker 5: a murder. It usually takes almost a year before the
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Speaker 5: both sides have everything and are ready to proceed.
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Speaker 6: Two.
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Speaker 1: Alexis Terrastak joining us at the courthouse Investigative report Crime stories.
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Speaker 1: Had his appearance changed since the last time you observed him.
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Speaker 3: He still has very sunken eyes. He looks very and
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Speaker 3: he's very, very, very pale, But he has the same
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Speaker 3: shaved head every time he's been in court since the
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Speaker 3: first time. He has a shaved head. He's a bit
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Speaker 3: of facial hair on his chin or the mum dash.
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Speaker 3: And when he looks the same, he kind of he
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Speaker 3: looks brown. He doesn't look muscular. He's a very big
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Speaker 3: guy and he walks very you know, stoically into the room.
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Speaker 3: He got shovels in or walks in and then, but
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Speaker 3: he just has these very dark circles under his eyes.
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Speaker 1: You stated that he looked round.
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Speaker 3: He doesn't look like he's been working out.
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Speaker 4: He just looks sort of like he's a round.
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Speaker 3: Guy, kind of a puffy a little bit is a
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Speaker 3: puffy skin, just a bigger guy.
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Speaker 1: So needless to say, he has not missed a meal
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Speaker 1: behind bars. Okay, I'm glad to hear that, because I
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Speaker 1: don't want to hear any whining about the jailhouse food,
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Speaker 1: especially when you're used to having a private chef and
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Speaker 1: raiding your parents' sub zero fridge anytime you feel like it.
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Speaker 1: So his appetite is good. You stated he looked like
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Speaker 1: a big guy.
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Speaker 5: You know.
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Speaker 1: Two special guests joining us, Heather Michaels. She is a
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Speaker 1: Reiner family friend and neighbor. She is also an investigative reporter,
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Speaker 1: a producer, and she is a social justice advocate. A
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Speaker 1: big guy, round, not the kind of face, not the
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Speaker 1: kind of guy you want to see standing over your
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Speaker 1: bed at three a m. In the dark. I take
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Speaker 1: it correct. How does this strike you that all this
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Speaker 1: fuss is made about Nick Reiner. What is he wearing?
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Speaker 1: If you look at practically any article online about what
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Speaker 1: happened today in the last hours, we hear a fashion review,
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Speaker 1: what he's wearing, how does he look? What was his demeanor?
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Speaker 1: It's all about him. Nothing, nothing about Rob Reiner or
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Speaker 1: Michelle Singer. Nothing right.
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Speaker 2: And you can imagine the living nightmare the siblings are
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Speaker 2: going through every moment of every day, and every time
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Speaker 2: that this gets continued and you know this is drawn
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Speaker 2: out and then the talk about this tell All book.
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Speaker 2: It's a living nightmare. It's so traumatic for the other siblings.
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Speaker 1: You know Heather Michael's guys joining us. You can find
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Speaker 1: her a Heather Michael's TV neighbor of the Rhiners. I
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Speaker 1: know that you read brother Jay Reiner's essay and it
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Speaker 1: just broke my heart when I read the part where
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Speaker 1: he said, well, I'll quote it, the forty five minute
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Speaker 1: lift right from downtown to the West Side was unendurable.
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Speaker 1: My world as I knew it collapsed. I was in
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Speaker 1: a trance. The only thing I could focus on was
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Speaker 1: that I needed to get to my childhood home. I
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Speaker 1: needed to get to my sister. I needed to figure
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Speaker 1: out what the hell just happened. He was in hell
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Speaker 1: in the back, belted into the back of a lift car,
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Speaker 1: having been told his parents had their throat slit. And
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Speaker 1: the sister Romy comes in and finds them and their
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Speaker 1: bodies were in such disfigurement. She I guess thought her
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Speaker 1: mother was a lump of sheets or a pillow. She
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Speaker 1: didn't even know her mum that was her mother in
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Speaker 1: the bed. And then she backed out of the room
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Speaker 1: in shock. And then you have the brother Jake, coming
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Speaker 1: across town trapped in the back of a car, his
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Speaker 1: world just exploding.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, the shock and disorientation that you know, just weighs
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Speaker 2: so heavy on Jake, and then having to explain all
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Speaker 2: this in real time and come forward and just talk
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Speaker 2: about his grief that they live every single day. Is
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Speaker 2: It's unreal, It's traumatic.
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Speaker 1: It just strikes me as wrong. Heather that no mention
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Speaker 1: is made of Rob and Michelle. This whole hearing goes by,
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Speaker 1: and it's all about his rights. Is he getting enough food?
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Speaker 1: Does he have a good lawyer? It's all about them,
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Speaker 1: And I'm just yeah, yes, And I'm just wondering, Alexis
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Speaker 1: Tereschuk at any point in this hearing. Did we even
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Speaker 1: hear the names Michelle or Rob Ever.
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Speaker 4: No, they were never said.
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Speaker 3: They were not said by the judge, they were not
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Speaker 3: said by the defense attorney, they were not said by
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Speaker 3: the prosecutors, and they.
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Speaker 4: Were not said by Nick. Never once.
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Speaker 1: Alexis Tereschuk, I'm very curious because it's always an important
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Speaker 1: moment to me in court when I, the prosecutor at
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Speaker 1: that time, would read the indictment in a murder case,
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Speaker 1: and I would look square at the defendant and name out,
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Speaker 1: say out loud the victims' names and see the defendants
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Speaker 1: reaction if any. Did Nick Reiner have any reaction in
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Speaker 1: the courtroom today.
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Speaker 4: No reaction at all.
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Speaker 3: Even when the judge asked him, do you understand and
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Speaker 3: he responded to him, he just simply said yeah.
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Speaker 4: He didn't even say.
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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, your honor, just yeah. That was his only response.
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Speaker 3: His face did.
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Speaker 4: Move, He wasn't smiling, who wasn't crying.
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Speaker 3: He wasn't laughing, he wasn't nervously picking at anything. He
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Speaker 3: just said yeah in a very monotone voice.
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Speaker 1: Doctor Thomas Cone is joining us. He is the Chief
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Speaker 1: Medical Examiner District to Medical Examiner's Office in Florida. Never
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Speaker 1: lack of business there. He's a forensic pathologist, a toxicologist,
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Speaker 1: a neuropathologist. Doctor Coin, thank you for being with us.
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Speaker 1: We have not obtained the full medical examiner's report yet.
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Speaker 1: In fact, that's one of the reasons the defense wants
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Speaker 1: a delay. They state that they don't have the medical
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Speaker 1: examiner's report. Well, all they have to do is get
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Speaker 1: in their car and go over to the medical examiner's
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Speaker 1: office and speak to the medical examiner. They will talk
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Speaker 1: to you. The doctor that performed the autopsy, will speak
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Speaker 1: to the defendant's council as long as they want to
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Speaker 1: ask questions. But no, they want another delay. Based on
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Speaker 1: what we know tonight, doctor Coin, could you describe the
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Speaker 1: injuries to Rob and Michelle Reiner, including the slitting of
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Speaker 1: both of their throats?
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Speaker 6: Sure? Well, well, the uh the injuries were known immediately
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Speaker 6: after you know, their death, and so the autopsy report,
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Speaker 6: or at least the preliminary report, was available within days
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Speaker 6: and that's why they were able to release the actual
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Speaker 6: cause of death and the manner of death. And and
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Speaker 6: those were you know, sharp injuries. So they were both uh,
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Speaker 6: stab wounds and cut wounds to the body. Uh, that
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Speaker 6: you know, of course, uh, led to their death. My
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Speaker 6: only my only belief year is that there is any
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Speaker 6: additional tests that remain. It would be potentially toxicology.
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Speaker 7: Uh.
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Speaker 6: That is delaying. Uh you know, the finalized report, but
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Speaker 6: all the details are readily available.
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Speaker 1: Doctor Thomas Coin, could you explain what are defensive injuries?
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Speaker 6: Sure? So, we called defensive injuries wounds that appear on
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Speaker 6: the backs of the hands and the arms. Generally, if
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Speaker 6: a person's trying to parry a blow from someone and
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Speaker 6: they put their arm up to block a blow, whether
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Speaker 6: it's from a fist or a foot or from a knife,
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Speaker 6: and those wounds tend to occur on the backs of
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Speaker 6: our arms and hands as we're trying to protect ourselves.
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Speaker 1: For instance, Doctor Thomas Coin, a defensive injury can be
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Speaker 1: found in multiple parts of the body. For instance, we
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Speaker 1: know that Robin Michelle Reiner were attacked in their sleep,
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Speaker 1: in their beds in the early morning hours, in the
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Speaker 1: dark of night. Defensive wounds, as if they were lying
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Speaker 1: on their backs, would be, for instance, on the back
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Speaker 1: of their arms. If they turned away, it could be
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Speaker 1: on the back of their shoulders. It could be on
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Speaker 1: their back going down their side if they curled up
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Speaker 1: in a fetal position, as I've seen many many times,
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Speaker 1: there could be defensive wound stab wounds on their knees,
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Speaker 1: their legs where they curled up. That's what I mean
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Speaker 1: by defensive wounds. Even if they turned their head and
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Speaker 1: the knife hits the side of their head, that could,
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Speaker 1: under certain circumstances, be considered a defensive wound. They're trying
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Speaker 1: to defend themselves, as you said, on the hands. It
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Speaker 1: could be like this on the back of the hands,
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Speaker 1: or it could be like that on the inside of
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Speaker 1: the hands if they tried to grab the knife away
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Speaker 1: from their killer. They could even have knife wounds on
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Speaker 1: the insights of their fingers. And a medical examiner will
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Speaker 1: be able to tell that very often defensive wounds are
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Speaker 1: shallow in nature as opposed to stab wounds. Is there
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Speaker 1: any way, doctor Thomas Coin, that you can determine which
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Speaker 1: wounds were first? Can you date them?
15:49
Speaker 6: You could do your best base upon the amount of
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Speaker 6: hemorrhage that's present within a wound, So, for instance, on
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Speaker 6: stab wounds or in size wounds, it could be difficult
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Speaker 6: at the altar. Around the same time, but let's say,
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Speaker 6: for instance, one of the first wounds strikes a vital
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Speaker 6: organ like the heart, causing the heart to stop pumping blood.
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Speaker 6: All the additional wounds that occurred after that first wound,
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Speaker 6: you'd expect not to have as much hemorrhage or bleeding
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Speaker 6: into those wounds because the heart isn't physically pumping blood anymore.
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Speaker 6: So sometimes you could try to determine the order of
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Speaker 6: injury based upon if a significant organ was hit first,
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Speaker 6: so for instance, the brain or the heart. If you
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Speaker 6: have those wounds and all the additional wounds have minimal hemorrhage,
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Speaker 6: it would suggest that one of those other vital organs
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Speaker 6: were hit first. Otherwise, you're limited in acute, meaning injury
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Speaker 6: that just happened right away, and looking at them either
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Speaker 6: with their eyes or the microscope to tell how long
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Speaker 6: a wound was present for If a womb was there
16:51
Speaker 6: for days, you have a better opportunity of determining that
16:54
Speaker 6: age range. But acute or fresh injuries are sometimes very
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Speaker 6: difficult to sort of group in terms of their order
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Speaker 6: of occurrence.
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Speaker 1: Let me make sure that we all understand what you're saying.
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Speaker 1: For instance, the first wound would bleed more if an
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Speaker 1: organ was struck such as the heart, and there was
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Speaker 1: internal bleeding or bleeding, the subsequent wounds would bleed less,
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Speaker 1: and if the person is already dead, those stab wounds
17:28
Speaker 1: would bleed not at all. Is that correct?
17:33
Speaker 6: Correct? Correct? Yes? So let's say you know a person
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Speaker 6: first gets stabbed in the heart and that causes them
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Speaker 6: to lose a large volume of blood or the heart
17:43
Speaker 6: stops beating. Any wounds that occur after that would have
17:48
Speaker 6: less blood than no blood at all, because again, the
17:51
Speaker 6: heart isn't pumping blood sending blood to those new wounds.
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Speaker 1: And that is how doctor Thomas Coin, we determine if
17:58
Speaker 1: a wound is post mortem after death, after the heart
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Speaker 1: stops beating. Go with me on this, doctor Thomas Coin,
18:06
Speaker 1: and tell me if I'm right or wrong. Wouldn't you
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Speaker 1: think that the slits to the throats of Rob and
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Speaker 1: Michelle Reiner came last, because if they had come first,
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Speaker 1: I don't see how Michelle or Rob could have fought back.
18:28
Speaker 6: Yeah. So, if you have a significant cut to the
18:32
Speaker 6: neck where you hit the carotid artery or the jugular artery,
18:35
Speaker 6: I would expect in less than two minutes, especially the
18:39
Speaker 6: corotid artery, less than a minute, you would be rendered unconscious.
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Speaker 6: Because the blood loss would be so fast and so yes,
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Speaker 6: I agree with you that if there were a lot
18:48
Speaker 6: of defensive wounds that showed evidence of injury that occurred
18:51
Speaker 6: before death, I would imagine that the injuries to the
18:55
Speaker 6: neck came last.
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Speaker 1: Joining us now a renowned forensic psychologist, TV radio trauma
19:04
Speaker 1: expert consultant, Karen Stark, joining us from the New York jurisdiction.
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Speaker 1: You can find her at Karenstark dot com. Karen, thank
19:13
Speaker 1: you for being with us tonight. I know you were
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Speaker 1: watching your monitor as doctor Thomas Coin was describing the
19:19
Speaker 1: injuries to Rob and Michelle and the dichotomy. It's just
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Speaker 1: as I was looking at Rob Reiner, who actually got
19:29
Speaker 1: to meet during Dancing with the Stars and he was
19:31
Speaker 1: very very kind to me. Didn't have to be that's
19:35
Speaker 1: my memory of him, Karen, looking at them in life
19:39
Speaker 1: those videos, as I was listening to doctor Coin describe
19:43
Speaker 1: their injuries, the dichotomy was overwhelming to me.
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Speaker 8: And just imagining what it was like for their daughter
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Speaker 8: to find in like that. Nancy, this is so much rage.
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Speaker 8: When you see someone being stabbed over and over and
20:02
Speaker 8: over again, that's a personal it's personal anger, it's rage
20:07
Speaker 8: and clearly, I mean this to me shows that he
20:13
Speaker 8: wanted them dead and was furious and knew what he
20:17
Speaker 8: was doing because he just kept going.
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Speaker 1: You know, you mentioned rage Karen Stark occurring to sources,
20:23
Speaker 1: he had gotten into a violent argument with his parents
20:29
Speaker 1: at Kennan O'Brien's holiday party that night and stormed out
20:33
Speaker 1: of the party. The parents left after him to go
20:37
Speaker 1: try to take care of him. So the anger was there,
20:41
Speaker 1: and a parent, in fact, someone said you better call
20:43
Speaker 1: nine one one, it was that bad. So you're right.
20:48
Speaker 1: These wounds, as you tell it, depict rage, and there
20:53
Speaker 1: had been a horrible argument in front of everyone at
20:56
Speaker 1: the party, not anything behind closed doors. So if that
21:00
Speaker 1: happens at a party, then what happens behind closed doors?
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Speaker 1: So I think you're right. I wanted to ask you
21:08
Speaker 1: about his demeanor because I got to tell you something.
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Speaker 1: If you were in a stupid let's just pretend you're
21:16
Speaker 1: in a stupor and you don't remember anything, and now
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Speaker 1: you have evidence that you murdered your parents. I can't
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Speaker 1: imagine getting through that without crying, without yelling out I'm sorry,
21:29
Speaker 1: I don't remember it, I don't know what happened. I
21:31
Speaker 1: would never murder my parents. I can't believe I did
21:34
Speaker 1: this thing something anything, No remorse, Karen Stark.
21:41
Speaker 8: Well, it certainly. I would say that. Just looking at
21:45
Speaker 8: the video after he killed them and going to take
21:48
Speaker 8: a shower, and the hotel and everything that he did,
21:51
Speaker 8: I don't see any remorse there at all. He's walled off.
21:55
Speaker 8: Now though this is different. He's detached and I'm not
21:59
Speaker 8: sure who are what that's about. But he's not showing
22:03
Speaker 8: any emotion at all, blank, And that's a detachment.
22:09
Speaker 1: You know, you mentioned, Karen Starr the video in the
22:13
Speaker 1: seven to eleven. Let's take a look at that, because
22:16
Speaker 1: you're saying that even then, there was no emotion, nothing,
22:22
Speaker 1: he was just business as usual.
22:23
Speaker 8: Look look think about it, Nancy. He just kills his parents.
22:28
Speaker 8: He just killed his parents. Look at him.
22:32
Speaker 1: The only people that had stuck by him from the
22:36
Speaker 1: beginning all the way through footed the bill for him
22:39
Speaker 1: at which leads me to his tell all memoir that
22:45
Speaker 1: he is writing behind bars. Are you kidding me? That
22:48
Speaker 1: is a prosecutor's dream come true. Bye bye insanity defense.
22:52
Speaker 1: This guy is writing manifesto, He is writing a book,
22:56
Speaker 1: and he has quote settling old scores about how badly
23:00
Speaker 1: he's been treated in Hollywood. Hold on, Karen Stark and
23:05
Speaker 1: correct me if I'm wrong, Heather Michaels. Nick Reiner lived
23:09
Speaker 1: in his parents' poolhouse, a multi million dollars setup. He
23:14
Speaker 1: had a car given to him by his parents, a
23:16
Speaker 1: credit card given to him by his parents. They filled
23:18
Speaker 1: up his gas, they paid for his food, his restaurants, everything,
23:22
Speaker 1: No job, no responsibility. When he felt like it, he
23:25
Speaker 1: could just saunter over to their kitchen and raid the
23:28
Speaker 1: sub zero. Isn't that true, Heather Michaels.
23:32
Speaker 2: It is true. He had the dream life. He had
23:36
Speaker 2: the dream life, and he threw it all away.
23:39
Speaker 1: So, Karen Stark, what about this? Tell all where he
23:42
Speaker 1: is quote settling old scores? What scores? What does he
23:47
Speaker 1: have to be angry about.
23:51
Speaker 8: It's very interesting if you compare him to his brother
23:54
Speaker 8: Jake and what he wrote, because this guy Nick wants
23:57
Speaker 8: you to know exactly how things went for him. His
24:01
Speaker 8: side of the story, his defense. He was ron, he
24:06
Speaker 8: was hurt, he was whatever he's saying. He doesn't mention
24:10
Speaker 8: that something horrendous has gone on. That is wonderful. Parents,
24:14
Speaker 8: the victims are dead. That's not what it's about. It's
24:18
Speaker 8: about defending himself.
24:21
Speaker 1: The brother writes in his essay, I still wake up
24:24
Speaker 1: every morning having to convince myself that this has really happened,
24:29
Speaker 1: that it's not a dream. This truly is my living nightmare.
24:35
Speaker 1: And Karen Stark, you are a trauma expert, a forensic psychologist.
24:42
Speaker 1: I've heard that from so many people that they wake
24:47
Speaker 1: up in the morning and they think, oh, my stars,
24:49
Speaker 1: that was awful that dream, and then it hits them
24:52
Speaker 1: like a ton of bricks. It's real. And meantime, we
24:56
Speaker 1: saw in that video from CBS Nick Reiners acting like
25:00
Speaker 1: nothing happened.
25:03
Speaker 8: And talk about a dichotomy. That's the most incredible thing, Nancy,
25:08
Speaker 8: the way I mean evidence showing that this guy absolutely
25:13
Speaker 8: knows what he's doing, where he's going, and not a
25:17
Speaker 8: hint of anxiety, remorse, nothing, And when you think about
25:23
Speaker 8: what it did to the family, because they will never
25:25
Speaker 8: ever get over it. That's the kind of trauma that
25:28
Speaker 8: will get better over time with help, but they will
25:32
Speaker 8: never ever resolve that.
25:34
Speaker 1: And you know, Karen Stark, I know that these siblings
25:38
Speaker 1: nightmare is really just beginning because every time there's the
25:43
Speaker 1: court hearing, they have to relive it and relive it
25:46
Speaker 1: and relive it until the case is over, and really
25:50
Speaker 1: then they might start to heal. But when he Jake
25:55
Speaker 1: Reiner was describing that ride over in the lift and
26:00
Speaker 1: it reminds me of moments like that in my life.
26:03
Speaker 1: And I've heard witnesses described when they learn about the
26:07
Speaker 1: murder and then trying frantically to get to the scene.
26:11
Speaker 1: Can I fix it? Did I hear it wrong? Was
26:14
Speaker 1: that real? I don't believe it? And they start trying
26:17
Speaker 1: to rationalize everything so that it's it's not real. There's
26:23
Speaker 1: been a mistake. I hear that over and over and over.
26:26
Speaker 1: And he's strapped in in the back of this lift car,
26:30
Speaker 1: and I can only imagine wanting to just jump out
26:32
Speaker 1: of the window.
26:35
Speaker 2: And think about it.
26:37
Speaker 8: Nancy, it takes so long to really accept that someone's dead,
26:42
Speaker 8: and a person who's aging and you know that they're dying.
26:46
Speaker 8: It's hard. And this is a sudden incident where both
26:51
Speaker 8: parents both at once are killed. They're dead and by
26:56
Speaker 8: supposedly allegedly his brother. So he's stuck in the car
27:01
Speaker 8: and trying to make sense to something that he will
27:03
Speaker 8: not make sense of for the rest of his life.
27:07
Speaker 1: Joining us Karen Stark, renowned TV radio trauma expert and
27:11
Speaker 1: consultant forensic psychologist. Back to Alexis to Raschuk. How many
27:15
Speaker 1: times did the court address Nick Reiner?
27:20
Speaker 4: Three times? Three times?
27:21
Speaker 3: The judge asked him, do you understand do you agree
27:25
Speaker 3: to continue this case? To continue that this is not
27:28
Speaker 3: setting a date for the preliminary hearing today, removing it forward.
27:32
Speaker 3: He explained sort of the legalies about it. Three times.
27:35
Speaker 3: Do you understand? Nick said yeah, yeah, yeah. You never
27:39
Speaker 3: said yes, your honor, Yes, I understand. He just said yeah.
27:46
Speaker 1: You know, Philip du Bay, you're a veteran defense attorney.
27:48
Speaker 1: There have been many times in court when a defendant
27:52
Speaker 1: would speak like that to the judge and I would
27:55
Speaker 1: turn to them and say stand up and say yes,
27:58
Speaker 1: your honor or yes or yes ma'am. You will not
28:02
Speaker 1: speak to the court that way. He's pretty casual.
28:06
Speaker 5: You cannot expect every criminal defendant to speaking's English and
28:10
Speaker 5: open court, particularly when they're as mentally ill as Nick is.
28:14
Speaker 5: He is probably heavily medicated on antipsychotic medication as a
28:19
Speaker 5: flat affect. It can barely say his name, let alone
28:23
Speaker 5: answer pointed questions that he's being peppered with but the
28:26
Speaker 5: bottom line is he did answer the questions, and whether
28:29
Speaker 5: or not you view it as being respectful or not,
28:32
Speaker 5: at least he answered. I don't think the court felt
28:34
Speaker 5: offended because the court did not respond to his affect
28:37
Speaker 5: or his responses in any negative way or fashion. So
28:43
Speaker 5: I think it's to be expected.
28:45
Speaker 1: I cannot believe that you just said, do you expect
28:51
Speaker 1: him to speak the King's English? I assume you're referring
28:55
Speaker 1: to King current King Charles in Great Britain. Actually, yeah,
29:00
Speaker 1: I do expect him to articulate in proper English because
29:05
Speaker 1: he had a job as a film producer and director
29:09
Speaker 1: and writing a screenplay. Hello. He lived in a multimillion
29:14
Speaker 1: dollar home and was surrounded by college grads and was
29:17
Speaker 1: put through one school after the next by his parents.
29:21
Speaker 1: So yes, I expect him to stand up and say yes,
29:25
Speaker 1: your honor or yes sir in court. Yes I do,
29:29
Speaker 1: and I think it was disrespectful. But he's got a
29:31
Speaker 1: whole bunch of more problems than disrespect in the courtroom.
29:35
Speaker 1: He had three opportunities to speak out in court, three
29:39
Speaker 1: opportunities to say I'm sorry, I'm sorry I missed my parents,
29:46
Speaker 1: and he said nothing, not one tier not one apology, nothing,
29:51
Speaker 1: not even a sad look for Pete's saint, Dubay.
29:55
Speaker 5: It's not a monologue, Nancy. The court is asking you
29:58
Speaker 5: a very specific question, answer the questions propounded. It's not
30:02
Speaker 5: your opportunity to just get up there and expatiate and
30:05
Speaker 5: talk about everything under the sun so that the world
30:08
Speaker 5: of public opinion has a different opinion of you. Remember,
30:11
Speaker 5: we're at a summary proceeding, and the nature of the
30:14
Speaker 5: proceeding is set forth by statute, and it says what
30:18
Speaker 5: if anything goes on. It's not a time for him
30:21
Speaker 5: to show remorse, for him to apologize to the world,
30:24
Speaker 5: for him to address the victims, or even to address
30:27
Speaker 5: the court with his true sentient feelings if you will.
30:31
Speaker 5: It's just not the purpose of the hearing. And in fact,
30:34
Speaker 5: that could be contemptuous.
30:36
Speaker 1: Philip Dubay, are you contesting reports that he, when he
30:43
Speaker 1: does have time to express himself and is not limited
30:47
Speaker 1: to judicial query, is writing a tell all book about
30:53
Speaker 1: how badly he's been mistreated. If he can write a
30:57
Speaker 1: book and a screenplay, he can speak in court.
31:03
Speaker 5: I need to see it first. Remember we saw.
31:05
Speaker 1: Thisfor Lord in heaven.
31:07
Speaker 5: I need to see it. I don't want to hear
31:09
Speaker 5: his second and third hand hearsay about some manuscript that
31:12
Speaker 5: they're finding in a jail cell, because, believe me, if
31:16
Speaker 5: that were the case, then I think the Public Defender's
31:18
Speaker 5: office may have to revamp their defense. But unless and
31:22
Speaker 5: until it is made public, I have to assume it
31:24
Speaker 5: is hearsay. Well, let's just pretend it's true. If it
31:28
Speaker 5: is true, the test, Nancy, is whether or not he
31:32
Speaker 5: was NGI or insane at the time of the crime,
31:35
Speaker 5: not at the time he penned his memoir. So if
31:38
Speaker 5: at the time of the crime he could not appreciate
31:41
Speaker 5: the nature or quality of his criminal act or distinguish
31:44
Speaker 5: right from wrong, he could still meet the monoton insanity
31:48
Speaker 5: defense and not walk, but go to a state locked
31:52
Speaker 5: hospital rather than to maximum security locked prison for life.
31:57
Speaker 1: Pillow Dubey just refer to the rule, which is typically
32:01
Speaker 1: called the old McNaughton rule. It is the litmus test
32:05
Speaker 1: as to whether you are insane, and that is, did
32:09
Speaker 1: you know right from wrong at the time of the incident,
32:13
Speaker 1: not today when you claim you're incompetent and cannot assist
32:17
Speaker 1: your attorney at court, not at some other time some
32:21
Speaker 1: previous lockdown rehab. But at the time of the incident,
32:26
Speaker 1: let's review I'm so glad you brought that up, Philip,
32:32
Speaker 1: thank you. Let's review his behavior at the time of
32:36
Speaker 1: the incident. The evening started and Alexis jump in if
32:40
Speaker 1: I'm wrong. The evening started with a grand party at
32:45
Speaker 1: Codin O'Brien's home, a holiday party around Christmas time. Everyone
32:50
Speaker 1: was having a good time when he Nick Reiner got
32:54
Speaker 1: into an argument with his parents. Isn't that true, Alexis
32:58
Speaker 1: it is true.
32:59
Speaker 3: They brought him to the party. They ask Conan, we
33:03
Speaker 3: bring him. We've been having a lot of trouble with him.
33:04
Speaker 3: He comes to the party and he starts acting so weird.
33:07
Speaker 3: He's going up to the other celebrities that they're.
33:09
Speaker 4: Saying, why are you famous? Are you famous? What are
33:11
Speaker 4: you doing?
33:12
Speaker 3: Everybody was so creeped out by him that they started
33:14
Speaker 3: talking telling his parents, Hey, you know what's going on here.
33:18
Speaker 4: So Rob confronts Nick and he says, you're cutting out?
33:21
Speaker 4: What are you doing? Has a big loud fight with him.
33:25
Speaker 4: People at the party were like, maybe we should call
33:27
Speaker 4: nine one one? Is this okay? And they all storm
33:30
Speaker 4: out of the party.
33:31
Speaker 1: They leave the party and then that very same night
33:35
Speaker 1: with Nick Reiner in a rage. He waits until the
33:40
Speaker 1: cover of darkness while his parents are asleep, leaves his
33:45
Speaker 1: poolhouse that the parents allow him to inhabit, crosses across
33:50
Speaker 1: the backyard, and every part of this is critical because
33:54
Speaker 1: it shows intent time to form intent. He gets a
33:58
Speaker 1: weapon a knife, from either his place or he procured
34:02
Speaker 1: it elsewhere, or from his parents' kitchen, then goes creeps
34:07
Speaker 1: into their bedroom they're asleep, and begins stabbing them to
34:13
Speaker 1: death in their bed. He then packs a backpack of
34:19
Speaker 1: clean clothes, leaves the home. Leaves his home in the
34:24
Speaker 1: middle of the night, and goes and checks in at
34:28
Speaker 1: a water front hotel with a waterfront view. Expensive signs
34:34
Speaker 1: his name in, uses a credit card, does not arouse
34:38
Speaker 1: suspicion of any sort. Goes to the correct room, unlocks
34:43
Speaker 1: the door, goes in, has the wherewithal to black out
34:47
Speaker 1: the windows so no one can see him or identify him.
34:52
Speaker 1: There's the inside of a room. Then takes a shower,
34:58
Speaker 1: gets all his parents' blood off, body, out of his hair,
35:01
Speaker 1: changes into clean clothes. We know this because blood was
35:05
Speaker 1: found in the shower stall. Then leaves the room with
35:10
Speaker 1: the backpack, walks to a seven to eleven by now
35:13
Speaker 1: he's worked up an appetite, goes to the refrigerated area,
35:19
Speaker 1: gets a drink, checks out, and leaves Listen.
35:24
Speaker 7: Michelle and Rob Reiner leave Connan's party without their son
35:27
Speaker 7: after his off putting behavior like wearing a hoodie to
35:30
Speaker 7: a formal event and interrupting Bill Hayter's private conversation leads
35:34
Speaker 7: to an embarrassing public row. Reiner popping up in Santa
35:37
Speaker 7: Monica at four am Sunday morning. Checking into the peer
35:40
Speaker 7: Side hotel. Desk staff doesn't notice anything off about Renner's appearance,
35:44
Speaker 7: but the next morning, housekeepers find sheets covering the windows
35:47
Speaker 7: and blood all over Rner's bedding and shower.
35:51
Speaker 1: That video of the seven eleven is from our friends
35:54
Speaker 1: at CBS. Are those facts accurate, Alexis Terestchruck.
36:00
Speaker 4: Yes they are.
36:01
Speaker 3: This is exactly what has been recorded, and he actually
36:03
Speaker 3: we have video of the.
36:04
Speaker 1: Follow So to Philip Dubay joining US defense attorney out
36:09
Speaker 1: of this jurisdiction, LA why else? Let me just ask you,
36:14
Speaker 1: Philip debate, did you sleep in your bed last night
36:18
Speaker 1: or did you have reason to leave around two or
36:21
Speaker 1: three o'clock in the morning, go check into a hotel.
36:24
Speaker 5: No. No, I swept comfortably in my own.
36:29
Speaker 1: Did you sleep with a knife under your pillow?
36:32
Speaker 6: No? Knife?
36:35
Speaker 1: Would you agree that leaving his own home, checking into motel,
36:40
Speaker 1: watching off blood, putting on new clothes, thinking to take
36:42
Speaker 1: a backpack, and most importantly, getting rid of the murder
36:46
Speaker 1: weapon police still haven't found, it would indicate he knew
36:51
Speaker 1: what he did was wrong.
36:53
Speaker 5: I think after the fact, I believe the evidence shows
36:56
Speaker 5: that he knew what he did was wrong. And that's
37:01
Speaker 5: the criminal act that your reporter just presented to your audience.
37:06
Speaker 5: But the truth be told, you have to also present
37:09
Speaker 5: the criminal mind. And I believe the evidence is going
37:12
Speaker 5: to show that he had multiple comorbidities co occurring disorders,
37:16
Speaker 5: namely some type of psychiatric disorder name and like schizophrenia,
37:21
Speaker 5: schizoeffective disorder, bipolar disorder. He probably also suffers from a
37:26
Speaker 5: personality disorder, not to mention poly's substance abuse commonly referred
37:31
Speaker 5: to as addiction. He may be developmentally disabled, and he
37:36
Speaker 5: may have been exhibiting signs of the contraindications of mixing
37:41
Speaker 5: all his meds together. So if you have somebody who
37:44
Speaker 5: is loaded mixing their meds and psychiatrically disabled, it could
37:49
Speaker 5: give rise to an insanity defense. And I think what
37:52
Speaker 5: probably happened here is he went through some type of
37:56
Speaker 5: frenzied meth induce psychosis on top of the mental illness,
38:00
Speaker 5: and he began to crash, come down and withdraw off
38:03
Speaker 5: the drug. And then suddenly he came to his senses
38:06
Speaker 5: and he realized what he had done. But during the
38:09
Speaker 5: act itself, I do believe he was in the throes
38:11
Speaker 5: of psychosis. The question for a jury is going to
38:15
Speaker 5: be does it rise to the level of insanity or
38:18
Speaker 5: will he not need that? Legal definition In California, drug
38:23
Speaker 5: addiction and personality before its can never form the basis
38:27
Speaker 5: of the type of mental illness needed to be insane
38:30
Speaker 5: at the time of the crime. While you can have
38:33
Speaker 5: a settlement.
38:33
Speaker 1: Bottom line, the voluntary use of drugs or alcohol, even
38:39
Speaker 1: if you are an addict, is not a defense. Voluntary
38:44
Speaker 1: use of drugs or alcohol is not a defense. And
38:47
Speaker 1: in fact, if the defense tries to suggest he has
38:50
Speaker 1: some sort of psychosis, the state, I predict is going
38:54
Speaker 1: to argue back. Based on many, many scientific experiments and
38:58
Speaker 1: studies that continued voluntary use of drugs or alcohol can
39:03
Speaker 1: induce psychosis, so it's kind of on you if you
39:08
Speaker 1: continue abusing drugs and alcohol then commit a murder. Your
39:13
Speaker 1: voluntary use of drugs or alcohol is not going to
39:17
Speaker 1: be a defense at trial. So we'll see, And wouldn't
39:21
Speaker 1: you agree Philip Dubay that the judge will instruct a
39:25
Speaker 1: jury that they can consider act before, during, and after
39:31
Speaker 1: the crime to determine intent.
39:34
Speaker 5: Of course they can. But the first thing you can
39:37
Speaker 5: bets that the public defender did is by being locked
39:40
Speaker 5: up at Twin Towers, is that he's off all street drugs.
39:44
Speaker 5: And if you're not being treated psychiatrically, we'll see if
39:47
Speaker 5: the symptoms of mental illness emerge, and that'll show the
39:50
Speaker 5: jury at least that he was mentally to do.
39:52
Speaker 1: That's a whole lot of ifs. Philip Dubay, Alexi Tirschuk.
39:57
Speaker 1: Bottom line, we had a preliminary hearing to set up
40:01
Speaker 1: a preliminary.
40:02
Speaker 3: Hearing, correct, and there is going to be another preliminary
40:07
Speaker 3: hearing to set up the preliminary hearing.
40:10
Speaker 4: So Nick has the whole summer.
40:12
Speaker 3: He has until September to decide with his attorney when
40:16
Speaker 3: they're going to set the preliminary hearing.
40:19
Speaker 1: Well, I'm sure that will give him plenty of time
40:21
Speaker 1: to write his tail all memoir sattling scores, telling all
40:27
Speaker 1: of his parents deep dark secrets to Heather, Michael's the family,
40:31
Speaker 1: friend of the winers, the whiners, neighbor. What deep dark secrets?
40:35
Speaker 1: What scores does he have to settle? That is infuriating
40:39
Speaker 1: that he's trying to drag his parents through the mud
40:41
Speaker 1: so he can sell a book.
40:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, the attention is back on him rather than the
40:48
Speaker 2: loss of two beautiful souls, his parents that were murdered
40:52
Speaker 2: in cold blood. The smug and arrogant and lack of remorse.
40:59
Speaker 2: It is just a stud you know, not any mention
41:03
Speaker 2: in the courtroom or at any time that you know
41:06
Speaker 2: he's rethought this was a horrible situation that unraveled. He
41:12
Speaker 2: It just that's the conversation, that's the discussion around, you know,
41:18
Speaker 2: the people are saying that there's just such a lack
41:21
Speaker 2: of remorse and almost also a talk of resentment by him.
41:26
Speaker 2: I mean, what's up with this book, a tell all
41:28
Speaker 2: book really of his parents and so called secrets.
41:33
Speaker 1: You know, it's just upsetting to me, Heather that somehow
41:37
Speaker 1: lost in the sauce are Rob and Michelle. They weren't
41:41
Speaker 1: even mentioned in court today.
41:43
Speaker 2: Nobody's mentioned them. It's just all about Nick. And the
41:47
Speaker 2: only reason why Jake is being mentioned right now is
41:50
Speaker 2: because Jake poured his heart out into the substack piece
41:53
Speaker 2: that he just wanted to express his sadness and the
41:56
Speaker 2: love he had for his parents and how they're just
41:59
Speaker 2: the siblings are trying to process this on the daily.
42:02
Speaker 1: Heather Michaels is joining us rhind our family friend, a
42:05
Speaker 1: neighbor social justice advocate who has watched this train wreck
42:12
Speaker 1: unfold ever since the night that Rob and Michelle Reiner
42:16
Speaker 1: were murdered. Heather Michaels, thank you for being with us. Everyone.
42:21
Speaker 1: If you know or think you know anything about this case,
42:26
Speaker 1: about that evening, about the motel, anything, please call toll free.
42:32
Speaker 1: Eight hundred two two two eight four seven seven repeat
42:36
Speaker 1: eight hundred two two two eight four seven seven. We
42:41
Speaker 1: remember an American hero, Sergeant George Brown, Florida Highway Patrol
42:46
Speaker 1: killed in the line of duty after thirty three years
42:50
Speaker 1: on the force, leaving behind a son sentenced to life
42:55
Speaker 1: without their father. That son, Tucker. American hero Sergeant George Brown.
43:02
Speaker 1: Thank you to our guests for being with us, but
43:03
Speaker 1: especially to you being with us tonight. Nancy Gray signing
43:06
Speaker 1: off for tonight, and I'll see you tomorrow night, and
43:08
Speaker 1: until then, good night friend, Okay,