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'Astonishing' Astra Vaccine Reduces Asymptomatic Cases · Bloomberg Intelligence

0:01
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney, along
0:04
Speaker 1: with my co host of Bonnie Quinn. Every business day
0:06
Speaker 1: we bring you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts,
0:10
Speaker 1: along with essential market moving news. Kind of Bloomberg Markets
0:13
Speaker 1: Podcast on Apple podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts,
0:17
Speaker 1: and on Bloomberg dot com. We have some breaking vaccine news.
0:21
Speaker 1: The Astro Oxford vaccine efficacy has been confirmed now in
0:26
Speaker 1: peer reviewed data. Apparently the Astro Oxford vaccine prevents the
0:30
Speaker 1: worst COVID symptoms in this particular study. It's effective, but
0:34
Speaker 1: it does leave questions in older ages. This is all
0:38
Speaker 1: according to a peer review study at ten hospitalization cases
0:43
Speaker 1: seen in the trial. All occurred among those given a placebo.
0:46
Speaker 1: Let's bring in somebody who knows a little bit more
0:48
Speaker 1: about the background to this particular vaccine and has been
0:51
Speaker 1: looking at the results and is looking at these headlines
0:53
Speaker 1: as they come out. Now. Michelle Court has Health science
0:56
Speaker 1: and medical technology reporter for Bloomberg. So Michelle, this is good,
1:01
Speaker 1: but rossively speaking, is it as good as the other
1:03
Speaker 1: vaccine news we've been hearing? You know, Vanni is a
1:07
Speaker 1: great question, and it actually is not appearing to be
1:10
Speaker 1: as effective as the Visor and Maderna trials. That being said,
1:14
Speaker 1: there was a little bit of a hiccup with this trial.
1:17
Speaker 1: In fact, there were there were a couple which is
1:19
Speaker 1: really to be expected given the pace of development here.
1:22
Speaker 1: They originally were only going to be using one dose
1:25
Speaker 1: of the vaccine. Then they realized it would be more
1:28
Speaker 1: effective if they did too, so they added that second
1:31
Speaker 1: dose in later. And of course there was an issue
1:33
Speaker 1: where some of the patients or some of the volunteers
1:35
Speaker 1: in the trial got actually half of the dose in
1:38
Speaker 1: that first injection than they were expected to get, and
1:41
Speaker 1: that unexpectedly turned out to be much more effective vaccination
1:47
Speaker 1: efficacy rate with that smaller first dose with only a
1:51
Speaker 1: you know, six efficacy race in the people who got
1:55
Speaker 1: both full doses. So that's unexpected. They're going to have
1:58
Speaker 1: to be more research here. So Michelle, kind of have
2:02
Speaker 1: we got anywhere clarity on that, uh, you know, that
2:05
Speaker 1: half dose issue that we learned about a couple of
2:08
Speaker 1: weeks ago that seemed to surprise a lot of people
2:11
Speaker 1: in the community, right, it is inexplicable. I mean, we
2:15
Speaker 1: do know that the people who got that half does
2:18
Speaker 1: were actually a younger group of patients, and so they
2:21
Speaker 1: are less likely to get severe disease, they're less likely
2:25
Speaker 1: to become infected. So there could be some explanation that
2:27
Speaker 1: happening there, but indeed we don't exactly know what's going
2:31
Speaker 1: on here. The company has said that they do plan
2:33
Speaker 1: to do another trial to look at this specific effect.
2:36
Speaker 1: That should not take as long to do because you're
2:39
Speaker 1: just looking at how the body responds to the vaccine,
2:41
Speaker 1: so we should be able to get through that pretty quickly.
2:44
Speaker 1: But even when you're looking at the higher efficuity rates,
2:46
Speaker 1: it's not quite reaching than levels that we're seeing with
2:48
Speaker 1: sisor in the journal. It does appear that less is
2:51
Speaker 1: more in this case, but that may not be the
2:53
Speaker 1: full story. What does Astra do next? I mean, is
2:56
Speaker 1: this good enough data to release the vaccine into the
3:00
Speaker 1: wild as Fiser has already done, or do they have
3:02
Speaker 1: to do more well. They have said that they're going
3:06
Speaker 1: to be doing more as well, and of course the
3:08
Speaker 1: fact is is that we're not going to have enough
3:10
Speaker 1: vaccine to protect the entire world for some time to come.
3:14
Speaker 1: So when you're looking at an epicacy rate with this
3:18
Speaker 1: lower first dose, I mean that is still extraordinary. It
3:21
Speaker 1: is absolutely unbelievable that they were able to get this effect.
3:25
Speaker 1: This trial was done in some very high risk areas.
3:28
Speaker 1: A lot of these patients were in Brazil, which is
3:30
Speaker 1: having a massive outbreak, and the idea that you can
3:34
Speaker 1: be getting this vaccine to people across the world who
3:37
Speaker 1: would otherwise have no no protection against the virus is
3:41
Speaker 1: really breath taking. Is you can't and you can't overestimate
3:45
Speaker 1: how important it is. It is really important to be
3:48
Speaker 1: getting all of these vaccines. Yeah, So Michelle, it seems
3:53
Speaker 1: like again, you know, we were started this process when
3:55
Speaker 1: we started talking about vaccines and we were kind of
3:58
Speaker 1: told that if you get a fifty your efficacy rate, uh,
4:02
Speaker 1: that's good. And obviously now we're getting much much higher rates.
4:05
Speaker 1: So it seems to me that while the astro Zenka
4:07
Speaker 1: perhaps is not on par with some of its competitors
4:10
Speaker 1: or peers, it's still very good. Is that the expectation
4:14
Speaker 1: that this is still a good uh number. It is
4:17
Speaker 1: a good uh, it's good science, it's a good the vaccine,
4:21
Speaker 1: and that it will be effective in the marketplace. Absolutely
4:25
Speaker 1: it is. It's an astonishing vaccine. We're even seeing you know,
4:28
Speaker 1: some some data coming out of this trial that we
4:30
Speaker 1: haven't seen as much with the other trials. For example,
4:33
Speaker 1: we know that the astro vaccine is preventing asymptomatic cases.
4:37
Speaker 1: So for people who didn't show any signs or symptoms
4:41
Speaker 1: of the disease but might still be infected, this vaccine
4:44
Speaker 1: is actually protecting against that. That's very important to know
4:48
Speaker 1: that there's not some latent level of vaccine circulating among
4:52
Speaker 1: the people who got this vaccine. And you have to
4:55
Speaker 1: remember the numbers are astonishing in this low dose group
4:59
Speaker 1: of people. There were seven cases out of over a
5:02
Speaker 1: thousand people who were treated with the vaccine, and that's
5:06
Speaker 1: just amazing to think that you can get that kind
5:09
Speaker 1: of efficacy, even if it's not, you know, in it.
5:13
Speaker 1: In comparison, there was one in the Fiser trial. But still,
5:17
Speaker 1: and we're talking about seven people. One people, it's a
5:19
Speaker 1: handful of people. It's remarkable, no matter which way you
5:22
Speaker 1: look at Yeah, that's amazing. Also, the fact that you
5:25
Speaker 1: can prevent it, you know, in people who might otherwise
5:28
Speaker 1: be asymptomatic, that's really important because it's the people who
5:31
Speaker 1: don't have it that are that that you don't know,
5:33
Speaker 1: have a that are dangerous. I mean, if somebody is
5:35
Speaker 1: coughing in front of you, you're obviously not going to,
5:37
Speaker 1: you know, go near them. But if there's somebody looking
5:39
Speaker 1: completely healthy who may have the virus, you wouldn't know
5:42
Speaker 1: that necessarily. So how is this different to the m
5:46
Speaker 1: r N A platform. How are Oxford and Astra approaching
5:52
Speaker 1: this differently to say Fiser and the others. Right, Well,
5:56
Speaker 1: there are different technologies. The m RNA. Uh, the RNA
6:00
Speaker 1: vaccines are brand new. There are no vaccines like this
6:04
Speaker 1: out there in the world. This will be the first
6:06
Speaker 1: vaccine using this technology ever developed. It is again, I mean,
6:10
Speaker 1: it keeps staying remarkable, but it's just like, how do
6:13
Speaker 1: you do that. It's a vaccine that we've never even
6:15
Speaker 1: tried before, and they're like, well, let's try it, and
6:16
Speaker 1: not only let's try it, but in less than ten months,
6:19
Speaker 1: we're going to start from zero and actually get it
6:21
Speaker 1: into people's arms. Um. The way that vaccine works is
6:24
Speaker 1: it actually delivers a little bit of the genetic seapoint,
6:27
Speaker 1: so yoursels are producing of the like protein showing your
6:31
Speaker 1: immune system what they should be going after. The after
6:33
Speaker 1: vaccine is a little bit different. It actually developed it
6:37
Speaker 1: delivers the virus itself to inactivated version of it into
6:42
Speaker 1: the cells themselves, and so then they are producing that
6:45
Speaker 1: protein and so they know what to go after. It's
6:48
Speaker 1: a different approach the same idea in terms of exposing
6:51
Speaker 1: the immune system to the virus so that it will
6:53
Speaker 1: know what to look at. The after vaccine will be
6:56
Speaker 1: easier to deliver. It doesn't require this super cold gain
6:59
Speaker 1: deliver a system that the Fiser and Maderna vaccines do need.
7:03
Speaker 1: So there are different different approaches here. Each one has
7:07
Speaker 1: different benefits and risks. You know, if you are a
7:10
Speaker 1: country that is very hot that doesn't have great consistent electricity,
7:14
Speaker 1: you're probably not going to want the Visor and Maderna
7:16
Speaker 1: vaccine anyway, you might not have the technology to deliver that.
7:19
Speaker 1: So having the ASTRA version would be helpful for these areas.
7:24
Speaker 1: And Michelle, what do we know about the timing of
7:28
Speaker 1: getting approval for this vaccine across the world. We're seeing
7:30
Speaker 1: it almost daily, including today with the FDA and and
7:32
Speaker 1: the Fiser news. What do we know about the ASTRA timeline. Well,
7:37
Speaker 1: it's interesting because ASTRA was on hold longer in the
7:41
Speaker 1: US than it was in other places, specifically in Europe
7:45
Speaker 1: that is very cautious when it comes to reviewing all
7:49
Speaker 1: of these vaccines, making sure that they're dotting every ion
7:51
Speaker 1: cross in every two So when it looks like for
7:54
Speaker 1: the US, ASTRA is going to be a wild delayed
7:57
Speaker 1: here is probably going to take a you know, a
7:59
Speaker 1: couple of months at least to get this additional trial
8:02
Speaker 1: underway and to figure out exactly where we're going. Certainly
8:05
Speaker 1: there are other countries where we will most likely see
8:08
Speaker 1: AFTRA going much more quickly and getting their vaccine onto
8:12
Speaker 1: the market in other areas more quickly. That could happen
8:15
Speaker 1: within the next month or two. Michelle, this idea that
8:18
Speaker 1: was out that the Trump administration didn't put in a
8:22
Speaker 1: big enough order with Fiser, how is that being received? Well.
8:27
Speaker 1: The Trump administration is saying that they have ordered enough
8:30
Speaker 1: vaccine to cover the entire US population. Anybody who's interested
8:34
Speaker 1: in getting vaccinated should be able to have access to
8:37
Speaker 1: that by the end of the summer. What their approach was,
8:42
Speaker 1: they were ordering a hundred million doses from each of
8:46
Speaker 1: the different vaccine companies so that they would be broadening
8:49
Speaker 1: out their exposure level. So if one doesn't work, then
8:53
Speaker 1: they haven't already purchased an awful lot of that and
8:55
Speaker 1: and not enough of something else, so they didn't broadly,
8:59
Speaker 1: you know, order six hundred million doses across various vaccines.
9:02
Speaker 1: Of course, now we know that there's one or two
9:05
Speaker 1: that are highly effective, you want to get all of
9:07
Speaker 1: that as much as you possibly can. And as you
9:10
Speaker 1: point out, they have already sold that vaccine to other places,
9:14
Speaker 1: so it's going to be yet until the summer before
9:16
Speaker 1: they can start delivering more of those doses to the
9:19
Speaker 1: US government. We'll have to see if we if we're
9:21
Speaker 1: going to need those doses or not. At this point,
9:24
Speaker 1: we're still getting results from the other vaccine manufacturers, and
9:27
Speaker 1: there could be additional benefits. Maybe you only need one
9:30
Speaker 1: shot from some of these vaccines. Those side effects they're
9:34
Speaker 1: very mild, but they do occur, and they occur in
9:37
Speaker 1: more than half of people in some cases. So there
9:39
Speaker 1: are other vaccines that are being developed still that might
9:42
Speaker 1: have less of those sort of issues, or maybe they're
9:45
Speaker 1: more effective than older people. So there's still details to
9:48
Speaker 1: be teased out here. It does look like, you know,
9:51
Speaker 1: a little bit of a setback that the US isn't
9:53
Speaker 1: going to get as much of this first sisor vaccine
9:56
Speaker 1: as they want, but ultimately it's going to be hard
9:58
Speaker 1: to get it into everybody, and so we have to
10:00
Speaker 1: see how it plays out. Michelle, thank you so much
10:03
Speaker 1: for joining us. We really appreciate your reporting there. Michelle Cortez,
10:06
Speaker 1: Health science and medical technology reporter for Bloomberg News. Let's
10:13
Speaker 1: move to Tesla. Paul, you mentioned it earlier on speaking
10:16
Speaker 1: with Dave Wilson. It's up at six ninety five now,
10:20
Speaker 1: and you know, it just continues to move on up.
10:22
Speaker 1: It's going to sell shares as the proceeds of up
10:24
Speaker 1: to five billion dollars. That just doesn't seem to be
10:26
Speaker 1: any stopping the investors in this company. Let's bring in
10:30
Speaker 1: Don Eves of web Bush, analyst on Tesla. So Don
10:35
Speaker 1: talk to us about this share price isn't warranted? Should
10:38
Speaker 1: we throw another five billion dollars at this company? Look,
10:42
Speaker 1: it's a great question. I mean, we are books is
10:45
Speaker 1: a thousand dollars and we continue to view this right
10:48
Speaker 1: now as just a transformational market in terms of ev demand.
10:53
Speaker 1: And if you look at evening market right now, Houselow's
10:57
Speaker 1: World and everyone else, Pam Rent and I think that's
10:59
Speaker 1: when that's what they're looking at they're looking at what
11:01
Speaker 1: this market is going to be the next three to
11:03
Speaker 1: four years. Obviously stock to continue to devout, but in
11:07
Speaker 1: terms of playing the E V space when you look
11:10
Speaker 1: out and I think that right now is why this
11:13
Speaker 1: stock continues to move higher. They're just given the supply demand.
11:16
Speaker 1: I'm sure you d please, so Dan, give us a
11:20
Speaker 1: sense here of use of proceeds. Here is just simply
11:22
Speaker 1: let's shore up the balance sheet, raised capital when we can,
11:26
Speaker 1: not necessarily when we need it. But that's exactly a pole.
11:30
Speaker 1: I mean, this is a twelve billion in countering in
11:32
Speaker 1: terms of what they have raised. Go back a year ago,
11:34
Speaker 1: that was the biggest Bara thesis in terms of shoring
11:37
Speaker 1: up the balance sheet. They were not profitable. Now you've
11:40
Speaker 1: got profitability. They're hitting when the iron is hot in
11:44
Speaker 1: terms of raising capital, and it really throws that bare
11:47
Speaker 1: thesis out the window. And naturally the key when you
11:50
Speaker 1: go forward in terms of the tests of story. Now
11:53
Speaker 1: you don't have any baluncari issues. So in until he
11:59
Speaker 1: spends it, I mean, he seems to have an unlimited
12:02
Speaker 1: ability to spend the money that he gets in so
12:05
Speaker 1: how for how long will there be no balancy to
12:07
Speaker 1: issues even with capital deployment in Berwin as well as
12:14
Speaker 1: in Austin. I mean this really shures him up for
12:16
Speaker 1: the next few years in terms of those capital issues. Now, investors,
12:21
Speaker 1: you and is what's the growth opportunity going forward? And
12:24
Speaker 1: right now if you look at ev especially in China,
12:27
Speaker 1: you know, test has really seen an inflection of them
12:29
Speaker 1: and profitable. That speaks of the S and P five
12:32
Speaker 1: hundred inclusion, which is different from a year ago. Hey, Dan,
12:37
Speaker 1: give us a censor. Let's take a step back here.
12:39
Speaker 1: It just feels like we're starting to hear more and
12:42
Speaker 1: more out of the traditional automakers in terms of maybe
12:47
Speaker 1: some product introductions, some ev products in particular, How do
12:52
Speaker 1: you think the traditional auto manufacturers over the next five
12:57
Speaker 1: years are going to move on e V And how
13:00
Speaker 1: do you think that to what extent is at a
13:03
Speaker 1: risk to Tesla? Well, I think if you look at
13:06
Speaker 1: GM spending twenty billion the next five years on EVY,
13:11
Speaker 1: and I think it speaks to what's happening, is this
13:13
Speaker 1: is really gonna be Today it's three overall automotive sales worldwide.
13:18
Speaker 1: I think that goes at ten percent by two thou
13:21
Speaker 1: I think traditional automakers of you and this, you're gonna
13:24
Speaker 1: have tax incentives. Of course, you have it in Europe.
13:26
Speaker 1: I think with the Biden administration doubling down tax incentives
13:30
Speaker 1: in the US, and ultimately from a multiple perspective, remember,
13:34
Speaker 1: Tesla doesn't get treated as an automotive company. It's a
13:37
Speaker 1: technology disruptive technology means and I think automotives and the boards.
13:42
Speaker 1: They also recognize that. More and more success on evy,
13:45
Speaker 1: you can start to see names like GM Forward get
13:48
Speaker 1: rerated on that success. A couple of questions done you
13:52
Speaker 1: don't mind. One is you've ben underperformer on Nicolas. You
13:56
Speaker 1: obviously feel like that's a whole different type of story.
13:58
Speaker 1: And the similarities that we see between the Nicolas story
14:01
Speaker 1: and the Tesla story really maybe we shouldn't be seeing them.
14:04
Speaker 1: So I want to ask you about that. I also
14:06
Speaker 1: want to ask you if elon Muska is spread too
14:08
Speaker 1: thin and white people have stopped complaining about that. They
14:10
Speaker 1: used to complain about that when it came to Dr
14:12
Speaker 1: Dorsey all the time. Yeah. In terms of Nicol, I mean,
14:16
Speaker 1: our cautious stands has been just some of the company's
14:19
Speaker 1: specific issues going on, you know, especially with GM and
14:23
Speaker 1: others I do think that they will start to clear
14:26
Speaker 1: over the next three to six months. But that's why
14:28
Speaker 1: we've been more cautious on Nicola, even though they still
14:31
Speaker 1: have great prototype and opportunity. I think, look, it's not
14:34
Speaker 1: a campaign every company with the same brush. And I
14:38
Speaker 1: think in terms of e V, you know, going to
14:41
Speaker 1: to the Musk question, I mean, he's kind of had
14:43
Speaker 1: that red tape. He's been able to do Superman like things,
14:48
Speaker 1: not just with Tessa, but of course with SpaceX, and
14:50
Speaker 1: I think that's not as much of a concern for
14:53
Speaker 1: investors just given what you've seen, more maturity, more profitability.
14:58
Speaker 1: They've scaled across US the globe and must continue to
15:02
Speaker 1: kind of navigate, as well as a strong bene that
15:06
Speaker 1: they've started to develop over ex three months. So you know,
15:11
Speaker 1: it's interesting down as we think about the test of story,
15:13
Speaker 1: it's always just what's the next catalyst? What's the next catalyst?
15:16
Speaker 1: You know, um, is it to take a look at
15:18
Speaker 1: the test of story? Is that new products? Is that
15:20
Speaker 1: manufacturing numbers? What investors really focusing on in terms of
15:24
Speaker 1: metrics these days? Yeah, metrics right now, leaves are focused
15:28
Speaker 1: on China. I'm not think China could be worth a
15:31
Speaker 1: hundred hours per share. That's the focus looking at what
15:34
Speaker 1: we see. We've always seen strength in terms of this
15:37
Speaker 1: quarter going into next year. You know, can they get
15:39
Speaker 1: the two hundred fifty thousand units potentially in China from
15:44
Speaker 1: one fifty first year out, That's gonna be the key.
15:46
Speaker 1: And then it's the drum roll to the cyber truck.
15:48
Speaker 1: I mean, that's gonna be the next, you know, really
15:51
Speaker 1: potential game changer model. And you're seeing that pickup truck market.
15:55
Speaker 1: It's not just test, it's for GM now obviously Rivian.
15:59
Speaker 1: You know, that's a whole another opportunity in terms of
16:01
Speaker 1: easy and it speaks to what you're seeing in these
16:03
Speaker 1: stocks not just in the US, but even in China
16:06
Speaker 1: and Neo and others. Just you know, really in the
16:09
Speaker 1: early days of this market breaking out, what's your your
16:13
Speaker 1: favorite company or your most ferry company. I suppose in
16:17
Speaker 1: your coverage universe you cover a lot of companies that
16:19
Speaker 1: are relevant to the current period, including docu sign and
16:22
Speaker 1: companies like that. Yeah, with doctor Sign has been our
16:25
Speaker 1: favorite work from home name along with z Scale. I
16:28
Speaker 1: think you've got to play cloud and cyber securities core themes,
16:32
Speaker 1: and there are favorite large cap continues to be Apple,
16:35
Speaker 1: I think going into a supercycle, demand looks very strong
16:39
Speaker 1: going into next year, and that continues to be our
16:41
Speaker 1: favorite large company. And along with Microsoft to play the cloud,
16:45
Speaker 1: and those are the keys cloud, cyber security and these
16:48
Speaker 1: large tech names. We still think tex Stox a year
16:51
Speaker 1: from now or thirty percent higher. Dan Apples had a
16:54
Speaker 1: bunch of news out today, some new products and headphones,
16:57
Speaker 1: some chips. What's the takeaway from what you've heard from
16:59
Speaker 1: Apple over the last twenty four hours. Yeah, it's just
17:03
Speaker 1: further solidifying not just the supercycle in terms of iPhone,
17:07
Speaker 1: but the broader products cycle that's happened across Max, across
17:10
Speaker 1: air pods. I mean, we think air pods this year
17:13
Speaker 1: ninety million units sold, that's up from sixty million a
17:17
Speaker 1: year ago. That's gonna be five percent of South. So
17:19
Speaker 1: when you're starting to seek not just on services, which
17:22
Speaker 1: is a big part of the re rating, but Apple
17:25
Speaker 1: right now is in the biggest product cycle, not just
17:27
Speaker 1: an iPhone, but if you could cross the board billion,
17:31
Speaker 1: it's history, and I think that speaks to why this
17:33
Speaker 1: stock has a lot more fuel on the engine. You know,
17:36
Speaker 1: right now we see hundred fifty price target. I think
17:39
Speaker 1: potentially bull Case could start to get you towards two hundred. Dan.
17:43
Speaker 1: Thanks as always, we like to just kind of go
17:45
Speaker 1: across the board tech with you, and you're always able
17:48
Speaker 1: to give us some great insights. Dan i'ves Managing director
17:52
Speaker 1: Equity Research web Bush Securities giving his thoughts on Tesla,
17:56
Speaker 1: Apple and some of the stay at home stocks. Dan
17:59
Speaker 1: I was a big, big ball on technology. He's been
18:01
Speaker 1: absolutely on top of these names, and he's been absolutely
18:05
Speaker 1: right writing this technology ballmarket that we've seen really since
18:10
Speaker 1: uh the end of the financial crisis isn't really come
18:12
Speaker 1: into play really just over the last twelve months as well,
18:15
Speaker 1: So we appreciate dance thoughts. Let's bring in Daniel Master,
18:19
Speaker 1: who is chairman of coin Shares Group at one point
18:22
Speaker 1: eight billion dollar platform and as you can imagine, how's
18:24
Speaker 1: a little bit to do with cryptocurrency. So Danny, thank
18:27
Speaker 1: you for joining. Very happy to have you chat with us.
18:31
Speaker 1: I'm very interested in coin shares and how it inhabits
18:35
Speaker 1: the ecosystem that is crypto and cryptocurrencies and platforms. Can
18:38
Speaker 1: you explain a little bit about it to us? Yeah, um,
18:44
Speaker 1: coin shares, we make it easy for institutions and other
18:49
Speaker 1: investors to own bitcoin. Um. We see this demand reflected
18:53
Speaker 1: in our a U M the figures which have been
18:56
Speaker 1: rising as you just mentioned. UM. The second thing we've
19:00
Speaker 1: do as we provide liquidity. We've done about eight billion
19:03
Speaker 1: dollars in cryptocurrency trading volume this year, which is up
19:06
Speaker 1: about four times on last. And we're helping to build
19:11
Speaker 1: and shape the infrastructure of the cryptocurrency ecosystem with other
19:17
Speaker 1: global banks like Namura creating products, investing in innovative companies,
19:22
Speaker 1: and building this new financial system. So, Danny, give us
19:26
Speaker 1: a sense of kind of what you're seeing just in
19:28
Speaker 1: the marketplace as to the adoption of just cryptocurrencies in general.
19:33
Speaker 1: We hear a lot about fintech, a lot about cryptocurrencies,
19:36
Speaker 1: but give me some sense of the applications you're seeing
19:39
Speaker 1: out there in the marketplace. Well, that's one of the
19:43
Speaker 1: most fascinating aspects of my job day to day. I
19:47
Speaker 1: think we've think back to in the last peak cycle
19:51
Speaker 1: of crypto prices, one of the criticisms, which I think
19:55
Speaker 1: was valid, was that not much of the infrastructure had
19:58
Speaker 1: been built, not much of the software and new applications
20:01
Speaker 1: had been developed. But now We're seeing some fantastic companies,
20:06
Speaker 1: companies like unite Swap, companies like Compound Finance, d y
20:11
Speaker 1: p X, Leverage and many other names who are delivering
20:15
Speaker 1: essentially banking services. They're borrowing, lending, hypoblication, trading, custody and
20:21
Speaker 1: derivatives all on the blockchain. So where do you fit
20:27
Speaker 1: into that, Danny, I mean coin shares. You're not a
20:30
Speaker 1: You're not a currency, right, You're a platform. Yeah, I
20:35
Speaker 1: mean we we we issue eight securities that list on
20:39
Speaker 1: nasdaimexans dot com. This makes it easy to buy and
20:43
Speaker 1: own cryptocountcy exposure through your normal bank of broker um.
20:48
Speaker 1: That's a big part of our business. We are investors
20:51
Speaker 1: in early stage equity for companies in the ecosystem that
20:56
Speaker 1: are building exchanges, data companies, wallets, lock chains. We have
21:02
Speaker 1: produced a gold back to Swiss gold back to stable
21:06
Speaker 1: coin which is issued across Europe. And we're also put
21:10
Speaker 1: forward a very interesting indexation strategy called the coin Shares
21:14
Speaker 1: Gold and Cryptocurrency Index, which pairs gold and a basket
21:19
Speaker 1: of cryptocurrency in a risk managed way for institutional investors.
21:23
Speaker 1: So we do a number of things well, Daniel, just
21:26
Speaker 1: on my blueber terminal. Here I kicked in xpt U
21:29
Speaker 1: s D the bitcoin ticker and what a chart that is.
21:34
Speaker 1: Give us your thoughts on bitcoin. The mood is electric.
21:39
Speaker 1: At the momentum, we've seen a transformation due to COVID.
21:46
Speaker 1: Bitcoin was created as a reaction to the twenty oh
21:49
Speaker 1: a quantitative easy program. Obviously with a situation we've all
21:54
Speaker 1: been facing in the last nine ten months, this quantitative
21:58
Speaker 1: easing h end has only magnified probably three or four folds.
22:03
Speaker 1: So at the moment the markets driven by the narrative
22:07
Speaker 1: for inflation resistance investments, it's driven by digitization. Bitcoin is
22:12
Speaker 1: a store of digital value which people want. And interestingly,
22:17
Speaker 1: investors are becoming less spooked by the characteristic volatility of bitcoin,
22:22
Speaker 1: which has been dropping over the last few years. And
22:26
Speaker 1: while other investments we know the drama in the oil
22:30
Speaker 1: market earlier this year, other investments are becoming more volatile,
22:33
Speaker 1: so that volatility profile is becoming a bit more palatable. Danny,
22:38
Speaker 1: is it still a land grab? So, I know, you know,
22:41
Speaker 1: for the platforms in particular, it was a bit of
22:43
Speaker 1: a land grab for a long time. Is it still
22:47
Speaker 1: the case who is emerging the winner when it comes
22:51
Speaker 1: to when it came to sort of taking the bets
22:53
Speaker 1: on the infrastructure of it all. You say, you do
22:57
Speaker 1: many things. You obviously placed bets in a lot of
22:59
Speaker 1: different calces, and now that central links are starting to
23:02
Speaker 1: talk about it, I imagine it's becoming a little bit
23:04
Speaker 1: more mainstream. But where where are the places where people want? Yeah,
23:10
Speaker 1: that's a great question. Um, I'll even wind the clock
23:14
Speaker 1: forward a little bit. I think we are contemplating a
23:17
Speaker 1: new environment, maybe two to four years forward, where central
23:22
Speaker 1: bank digital currencies are the norm, and there are huge
23:27
Speaker 1: advantages for central banks for issuing such digital currencies. Um.
23:31
Speaker 1: Now when we see that, we're going to be asking
23:35
Speaker 1: the question who's going to perform those banking services in
23:40
Speaker 1: the intermediate layer, the borrowing lending as I mentioned before,
23:43
Speaker 1: And those are interesting companies that I think are winning
23:46
Speaker 1: great mindshare and great market cap at the moment. But
23:50
Speaker 1: perhaps the most interesting land grab opportunity is for the
23:56
Speaker 1: end points for those digital wallets, these sort of Amazon
24:00
Speaker 1: dot com a digital assets. So when your gold is digital,
24:03
Speaker 1: your stocks are digital, your bonds of digital. Whereas though,
24:06
Speaker 1: where are those digital assets going to be held? And
24:08
Speaker 1: it's that wallet infrastructure that is the most interesting land grabs.
24:12
Speaker 1: So you've seen Facebook and Libra and Calibra trying to
24:18
Speaker 1: take take the advantage in that space. You've got the
24:22
Speaker 1: big exchanges like coin based and Finance and maybe bitfin x,
24:27
Speaker 1: who are also quite strong in the wallet infrastructure. You've
24:31
Speaker 1: got native blockchain infrastructure companies like blockchain dot Com one
24:36
Speaker 1: of our partners, fantastic company, sixty million wallets already. And
24:41
Speaker 1: then you have newcomers like Samsung's who are putting hardware
24:45
Speaker 1: security devices in phones that can then act like digital wallets.
24:50
Speaker 1: So it could be a phone provider. And we've yet
24:52
Speaker 1: to see what other companies like Amazon, like Google may
24:56
Speaker 1: do in reaction to the moves that some of their
24:59
Speaker 1: competitors are making. Hey Danny, just real quick twenty seconds.
25:03
Speaker 1: Do you need the big big banks, the JP Morgans
25:05
Speaker 1: in the world to come into this market? I think
25:08
Speaker 1: that this intermediate layer of banking services that are now
25:12
Speaker 1: emerging on Shane. You know, these are big proof of
25:15
Speaker 1: concept companies, but they're growing, you know, two billion dollar
25:18
Speaker 1: status very quickly. Um. It seems to me that a
25:22
Speaker 1: lot of the traditional banks, the Morgan's Chases and so on,
25:25
Speaker 1: are quite far behind everybody's got an initiative, but they
25:29
Speaker 1: seem to be stalling and they seem to be quite
25:33
Speaker 1: far behind the rest of the pack. Yeah, certainly it
25:35
Speaker 1: seems to be the case. Danny Masters, thanks so much
25:38
Speaker 1: for joining us year. We always appreciate getting your thoughts
25:40
Speaker 1: on all things crypto. Danny Masters, chairman coin Shares a
25:44
Speaker 1: group based in London, with some thoughts on the crypto market,
25:47
Speaker 1: and uh, it's a fast growing market. But you know,
25:50
Speaker 1: one of the questions is do you need the validation
25:53
Speaker 1: of some of these large global banks to really kind
25:56
Speaker 1: of propel that market forward or can they be driven
25:59
Speaker 1: simply by the technologies. Well, as we all think about
26:03
Speaker 1: how to best manage our day to day activities amid
26:07
Speaker 1: the pandemic, one of the areas that's really taken a
26:09
Speaker 1: hit has been mass transportation. People just don't feel comfortable
26:13
Speaker 1: getting on subways and busses and so on. But a
26:16
Speaker 1: new report from n YU suggest that they met that
26:19
Speaker 1: may not be as big an issue as people may
26:21
Speaker 1: be thinking. Professor Mitchell Ross, I'm sorry, Mitchell Moss, Director
26:25
Speaker 1: of the Root and Center for Transportation Policy and Management,
26:28
Speaker 1: also the Henry Hart Rice Professor of Urban Policy, and
26:31
Speaker 1: Planning at n y U joins US Professor Moss, thanks
26:33
Speaker 1: so much for joining us here. When I saw this report,
26:36
Speaker 1: it really piqued my interest because as someone like most
26:38
Speaker 1: New Yorkers, we arrived the subway multiple times every day,
26:41
Speaker 1: and the assumption was that was just a breeding ground
26:45
Speaker 1: for all types of viruses, including COVID. What did your
26:49
Speaker 1: research tell you? So the study we have done shows
26:56
Speaker 1: that influenza debts, which is not the same as coronavirus,
27:00
Speaker 1: over a ten year period, have no relationship to mass
27:02
Speaker 1: transit ridership, and we believe since the spread of the
27:06
Speaker 1: virus has some similarities. This is a very important study
27:09
Speaker 1: because it confirms what has been reached in other areas
27:12
Speaker 1: of science, which is that it's sustained social interaction, which
27:17
Speaker 1: is the area of highest risk for the spread of
27:19
Speaker 1: this coronavirus. So, when you say influenza deaths, what about
27:25
Speaker 1: influenza hospitalizations or just contracting influenza? Were you able to
27:30
Speaker 1: get data on that? Well, we relied on death because
27:33
Speaker 1: there's one thing it's very high to do is to
27:35
Speaker 1: hide a body and the diagnosis. We didn't really go
27:38
Speaker 1: for the kind of number of diagnosis of influenza, which
27:41
Speaker 1: as you know, can be quite common, especially among older people,
27:44
Speaker 1: but influenza death is a very specific category. I think
27:49
Speaker 1: the key part which we want to highlight here is
27:51
Speaker 1: that the subway in New York especially, but also in
27:55
Speaker 1: Hong Kong and in Paris and in certain cases soul
27:58
Speaker 1: in Tokyo has been manageable. In other words, people are
28:02
Speaker 1: wearing masks in some places, they're cleaning the subway cars
28:05
Speaker 1: multiple times. In New York, the air it's filtered more
28:08
Speaker 1: often you know, in a subway car that it is
28:11
Speaker 1: in most office buildings. So we believe, and it's very
28:14
Speaker 1: important here, that the subway, where most people don't talk
28:17
Speaker 1: to each other, they don't look at each other, they
28:19
Speaker 1: can't hear each other because the train wheels are so loud,
28:23
Speaker 1: they're focusing on their phones or their iPads, actually produces
28:26
Speaker 1: very atomistic behavior. People stick to themselves, and so the
28:30
Speaker 1: actual subway ride is not the source we believe of
28:34
Speaker 1: the virus compared to other settings. And how do we
28:37
Speaker 1: know this, Well, look in at the state of New York.
28:40
Speaker 1: Buffalo has an infection rate three times higher than the
28:42
Speaker 1: city of New York. Buffalo is not a major subway city.
28:45
Speaker 1: They have a bus system. Los Angeles and southern California,
28:49
Speaker 1: which is having a vast surge, as you know of cases,
28:52
Speaker 1: is an automobile city. In fact, people cannot figure out
28:55
Speaker 1: how l A could have so many cases, given how
28:57
Speaker 1: low density some of the living is and how out
29:00
Speaker 1: doors it is, and so the virus spreads when people
29:03
Speaker 1: are together with each other for sustained periods of time,
29:06
Speaker 1: especially indoors. The subway tends to be a managed ride,
29:11
Speaker 1: tends to have very little interaction, and the air itself
29:14
Speaker 1: there it's filtered so often that it tends to present
29:17
Speaker 1: less of a risk than in many cases. I would
29:19
Speaker 1: like going to the Oval Office. I mean, we have
29:22
Speaker 1: a chart in the media and the number of people
29:24
Speaker 1: who have been with the President who have contracted the virus.
29:26
Speaker 1: We think the subway car is safer than in the
29:28
Speaker 1: Oval Office. Yeah, but I wouldn't have wanted to ride
29:30
Speaker 1: in a subway car with the President at that time either. Well.
29:33
Speaker 1: I think that what we've seen is that the initial
29:36
Speaker 1: pandemic was so concentrated in New York. The people said
29:39
Speaker 1: it must be due to mass transit, And now we
29:42
Speaker 1: see if you look at a map of the US.
29:44
Speaker 1: You know, you know, there are states in the Upper
29:47
Speaker 1: Midwest where they wouldn't know a subway car from a
29:49
Speaker 1: limousine because in fact, you know, they're really driving trucks
29:52
Speaker 1: and the factors in South Dakota and North Dakota and
29:55
Speaker 1: some of those states have had serious outbreaks from a
29:58
Speaker 1: motorcycle rally. So what we would argue is that our
30:01
Speaker 1: research shows that mass transit by itself is not really
30:06
Speaker 1: tied to the spread of virus. Now, over time, we're
30:09
Speaker 1: going to learn more about the coronavirus. But wait, professor,
30:12
Speaker 1: can I just can I just clarify? Are you basing
30:14
Speaker 1: that on the fact that the people who died from
30:17
Speaker 1: influenza across the country didn't increase in areas for the
30:22
Speaker 1: renomas transit? Is that? Is that? No? I think, well,
30:25
Speaker 1: there's a great question. I appreciate. Remember this is a
30:28
Speaker 1: study of collective death, so it's no one individual case.
30:31
Speaker 1: But we haven't looked at where there were you know,
30:34
Speaker 1: influenza deaths and where there were mass transit systems, and
30:37
Speaker 1: this is over a hundred cities that there's no relationship
30:40
Speaker 1: to between mass transit use and the death from influenza.
30:44
Speaker 1: So we really can't talk about anyone individual. We can
30:47
Speaker 1: say that the ridership of mass transit does not connect
30:50
Speaker 1: in any form to the youth to the death by influenza, right,
30:54
Speaker 1: because it's people's immune system and it's how they react,
30:57
Speaker 1: and it's how influenza influences one person versus another person.
31:01
Speaker 1: Wouldn't that be the same for COVID? Well, I think
31:04
Speaker 1: this is a great question for which you know, our
31:06
Speaker 1: knowledge of COVID is one year old. You know, last spring,
31:09
Speaker 1: everybody though it with surfaces. Now we're finding out it's
31:12
Speaker 1: much more air, so I think you know, and every
31:15
Speaker 1: human being, I think it's your point out is affected
31:17
Speaker 1: by the COVID very differently. If they ask any of
31:20
Speaker 1: the emergency room doctors, they will be the first to
31:22
Speaker 1: tell you that patients experience the virus and their different
31:26
Speaker 1: parts of their systems. Sometimes it's breathing, sometimes it's hard,
31:29
Speaker 1: you know, it's very It affects people so differently that
31:32
Speaker 1: I'm not sure we can make a judgment and stuff.
31:34
Speaker 1: You know, how actually people are going to be affected
31:37
Speaker 1: by any one particular a bout of the virus because
31:40
Speaker 1: their own composition, remember their age, their underlying conditions affect
31:43
Speaker 1: how it affects them. So, professor, just the next thirty seconds, Um,
31:47
Speaker 1: have you discussed this with the city and what's the
31:50
Speaker 1: as mt A had any response to the study. Well,
31:52
Speaker 1: the m t A has taken a very aggressive approach
31:55
Speaker 1: to having masks being required, and the ridership shows wearing
31:59
Speaker 1: the I think the mt is very familiar with the
32:02
Speaker 1: study because they have actually been very aggressive not only
32:05
Speaker 1: enforcing the mass requirement but in sanitizing. That's why the
32:08
Speaker 1: stations are closed at night and the cars are cleaned,
32:11
Speaker 1: and so they're doing what they can do. Now. They've
32:13
Speaker 1: had a lot of loss of death of some of
32:15
Speaker 1: them people who work in the transit union, because they
32:18
Speaker 1: have been in vulnerable situations where they're interacting with people.
32:21
Speaker 1: But I think what's amazing is that the m t
32:23
Speaker 1: A has recognized this is why they've aggressively spend a
32:27
Speaker 1: lot of money and the continuity including stations and the
32:30
Speaker 1: cars the mask requirement that has been the best example
32:34
Speaker 1: of their success. The the amount of use of the
32:37
Speaker 1: mask is greater than that on the sidewalks of New
32:39
Speaker 1: York City. Yeah, it's fascinating. We have to thank you
32:43
Speaker 1: for us or I hope you come back. I would
32:44
Speaker 1: love to continue to chat with you as this progressive professor.
32:48
Speaker 1: Mitchell Mass, Director of the n y U Rooten Center
32:50
Speaker 1: for Transportation and Policy Management. Thanks for listening to the
32:55
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Markets podcast. You can subscribe and listen to interviews
32:59
Speaker 1: at Apple, Old Podcasts, or whatever a podcast platform you prefer.
33:03
Speaker 1: I'm Bonnie Quinn. I'm on Twitter at Bonnie Quinn, and
33:06
Speaker 1: I'm Paul Sweeney. I'm on Twitter at pt Sweeney. Before
33:08
Speaker 1: the podcast, you can always catch us worldwide at Bloomberg
33:11
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