Latest / Through the Sh#t with Jen McDowell / Angel Garcia | Part 2: Turning Survival Skills Into Leadership
Transcript
- speaker-0: Welcome, I'm Jen McDowell, and you're listening to Through the Shit, a podcast for anyone going through the shit and the people who love them. And every episode we'll hear a new story of loss, hope, and resilience, and how going through the shit led to something greater. So if you're in the shit now and feeling lost or alone, disconnected from your badass self, or in need of an ember of hope to keep putting one foot in front of the other, you're in the right place. So settle in, prepare to be moved and inspired, and welcome. To the shit. Welcome back to Through the Shit. I'm your host, Jen McDowell, and this is part two of my conversation with my fellow TEDx Albuquerque speaker, Angel Garcia. If you haven't listened to part one yet, I recommend starting there. Angel shares what it was like growing up in an environment shaped by gangs, violence, and limited possibilities, spending years in prison. And eventually moving from Los Angeles to Albuquerque to begin building a different life. We ended part one with Angel facing a question that changed the direction of his story. Who am I now? If you're joining us here first, don't worry, you can follow the conversation from this point. And I'd encourage you to go back to part one afterward to hear more of the story that brought him here. Angel's story isn't just about leaving a difficult past behind. It's about what happens when you begin to question an identity you've carried for years, and discover that some of the very things you learn to survive can become strengths you use to lead, connect, and make a difference. In part two of our conversation, we talk about how Angel found a new sense of purpose, how imposter syndrome can make us question whether we belong even when we've earned our place, and how the right people in an unexpected opportunity showed up. When he was close to making a very different choice. There's something here for anyone who has made it through a shitty chapter but is still figuring out what comes next. Our experiences aren't all the same, and neither are the challenges we face. But the stories of identity, belonging, and rebuilding resonate far beyond any one person's story. So let's pick up where we left off, with Angel trying to figure out who he was going to become. speaker-1: move married to Albuquerque, I lost my sense of identity. Like I was a gang member from Los Angeles with homeboys, a whole criminal network, a whole nother network of drug trafficking. Like, okay, now I'm an Albuquerque, who the fuck am I? Yeah. Who am I? What am I to do? And also then being able to sit with that and kinda just evolve this new portion that needs to come out out of necessity 'cause else the old one is gonna be emerged and then this was all for nothing. So yeah being at CNM and you know I've I've been fortunate. I've always met people I think during key parts of my life where I've needed to meet them. I kept I kept getting invited, PTK Pfight Theatre Capo, it's the Honor Society for two year colleges. I kept getting invited and after class one Wednesday, I didn't want to go home, I didn't have to go to work that day. So I was bored and I saw that at T PM there was gonna be a meeting. So I was like, you know what, let me go check this out. And this was like my third turn running. But I still haven't hadn't really had a whole a new developed sense of identity. It was still that gang member who was just from Tyler to now. So I went to that meeting and I walk in, you know all the they're mostly kids in there, eighteen, nineteen, some of do credit students, sixteen, seventeen. I just felt out of place and then they're all living like all nerd meeting out like, I don't belong here. So as I walking out. speaker-0: Who is this old guy? speaker-1: Yeah. So as I'm walking up noticing this earlier gentleman, his name is Tim Nice. Timothy Nice. I'll never forget him, you know, and and we're still friends to this day. I didn't see him sitting in the back of the room and he he was already in his forties. and at that time I was like thirty thirty four. So as I'm walking out, he walks out behind me, puts his his arm on my shoulder and he He tells Hey man, where you going? And I looked at him like well I I feel weird in there. I don't I don't belong, you know, I'm not like them. And you know, like I'm heavily tattooed, so he just kept looking at all my tattoos and he's like, Hey man, look, why don't you do yourself a favor? So go back in here, sit with me. Forget about your past, man, and just concentrate on your future as one of us. You know, just do me that favor, just sit through this meeting with me. So then I went back under, I sat with him, and there's you know her discussion began and him and I kinda you know we we got to talking and I went back to the next meeting, went back to the next meeting, and I ended up getting involved and doing things we used to have like food drives for students who were experiencing food insecurity. So just fun. I could say this is the first time in my life where I was doing backlog in a positive way. You know, like and it's it felt good. Through being part of them, I I got I got the opportunity to become the president of the Executive Council Students, which is a CNN student government. And one of the random one of the one of my approaches was I get to meet with a a college president once a month. So A lot of my peers and a lot of the faculty wouldn't understand that if they have to go see a probation officer, they have to go or else they're gonna end it back in jail. So they would get hard times. they would get a hard time at times about turning in assignments or if we have an exam at the unwillingness for the faculty to work with the students. So I blocked that up with with the the school president, which at the time was Kathy Winograd. And she told me about this faculty committee that we're meeting to try to mitigate these issues, and she allowed me to be the only student on that committee, and six months later we implemented first formerly inculcerated the integration success team at CNN. And that's where I got my first taste of actually working with people. And that's when I found my new identity agent. I was like, okay. So this is what I'm supposed to be doing. I got my associate's degree like in electrical trades with the concentration on the photovoltaic solar panels, but I haven't worked in that a day in my life. And now I'm working on my bachelor's degree. But just that's when I found out, like, okay, this is what I'm supposed to be doing. I'm supposed to be helping people. Like this is why I I'm not religious, I'm spiritual. So like to me it made total sense. This is why the creator has spared me this whole time. To use my evil experience to help somebody else with a current experience, you know? And it just after that, like just the world is my oyster, you know, like I finally found I have purpose. I found my new identity and now just Fuck it, you know. And thing that I have learned as well is that You know, Tupac was my favorite rapper growing up in state to this day. And there's a a s at the end of one of the songs, he said like he would talk at the end of the song and this one time he said, You know, it's okay if you take a few red lights but you always have to watch the signs. And I finally understood that, you know, in my lifetime well at least in my lifetime there has always been a person. who has came in has taught me something or has pointed me in a direction. and I I just personally believe these are divine signs that are guiding us through our lives to towards our purpose. You know, and I'm just I'm pretty sure it's happened in LA too that was so closed minded, closed off. and just immersed in what I was doing that then I didn't have the foresight to actually pay attention to them. But here now with this new lease on large like I s taken direction and it's it's gotten me, it's served me well, you know? speaker-0: Yeah, that's a really cool sort of metaphor that I want to try and come back to is this idea of your lived experiences have sort of lifted the veil so that you can see the divine signs when they're placed in front of you. But before we do that, I want to kind of touch base on this idea of environment because it's come up a couple of times. And I and I I think you've posed sort of this interesting contrast between the environment you had growing up and the environment you had when you moved to Albuquerque. And I think. that both of those environments taught you a lot. And I think the invitation to belong to a different environment, that invitation that you got from the the the guy at the five beta campa meeting was really instrumental in kind of helping you pivot into a new path. So I'm curious as you kind of reflect on these different environments that you've been exposed to, what lessons from each environment have shaped how you think about leadership? speaker-1: Yeah, d definitely. So Back in Los Angeles, you know, making decisions under pressure. Every day was a pressure a pressure test. every there's not a day, especially when I was a little bit older, where I didn't walk out of my house knowing that today I could get killed, today I could go to prison for the rest of my life. So making decisions under pressure, navigating conflict, de escalating, and Integrity, believe it or not. I I used to deal with a lot of drugs, a lot of money, making sure the money goes to where it needs to be. Logistics, how am I gonna get this from Los Angeles all the way up to Northern New Mexico? You know, like just planning and all these skills that I learned back then, but then now fast forward to now in Albuquerque, how do I leverage the skills that I already metal from back here to being used here. So there's a lot of time here in Albuquerque where even the fair news here, I told a children friend I'm moving to Albuquerque in the first place they told me all you they were already kinda misguiding me. They're like, look, the person that you were you could go make a lot of money right there in the war zone. And That wasn't the purpose of me coming out here, but I did get to work in the war zone years later, a band international, too strict. I ended up getting a job with the city of Albuquerque. They wanted me to implement the first of its kind in New Mexico violence intervention program because homicides were skyrocketing. So All the skills that I had back in Los Angeles knowing how to navigate those environments, those dangerous environments, I would just go walk over there and talk to people. And it allowed me to do my job well, knowing, okay, well, the violence happening in Albuquerque isn't because of gangs, it's because of the drug trade. You know? And being able for me to tell leadership that. And I felt comfortable there, you know? Like I tell people all the time, the streets don't change, only the zip codes. If you get in Los Angeles, you all want to make a gangster. But the pain and suffering is all the same. But money choice, the drugs and everything is all the same. Now fast forward to Albuquerque, there may not be organized gangs here, but the pain and suffering, the loneliness, the the addiction, it's all the same. So the skills navigating one environment now navigating this one but with a with a with a positive purpose was very easily transferable, you know? So also knowing how to talk to them, knowing what would what would kind of pique their interest or just getting to know the community and the resources that they were really needing, you know. That allowed me to kind of build a network of community resources where I can help an individual. But that and the other thing like from being in prison and networking the people in prison, I've brought that over to this life. I have a network all across the country. I I know people doing substances, violence intervention, or reentry work all across the country. I sit on the board of directors for a national organization. It's called the National S National Association of Reentry Professionals. And Like my whole goal 'cause I'm honestly historically a lot of these programs they walk at silos because of the grant funding or whatever it may be, but I'm trying now I'm trying to take it a step further where I'm creating this national network of organizations where we could just send people to one another. Cause I know what it took for me to really succeed. was to get out of my element and get out of my environment and I got placed here. So if I could do that for other folks, if I could send somebody to Pensacola, Florida, to a program over there, but if we wake up everywhere, they look out the wind on the oceans right there. Somebody from our country has never even seen an ocean. I think that would go a long way for helping that person in their life, you know? But yeah, just like you know like I like I said, leadership skills In Los Angeles I didn't know there were leadership skills. I just thought these were survival skills. But now in this context, there are leadership skills. So how am I gonna use them all to help the community? And that's what I've been pushing myself to do. especially these last like six or seven years that I started that I got into the field. speaker-0: Yeah. You know, I think it's interesting. It's almost like your your prison experience was like a lens. in that you had all of these skills that you had learned, making decisions under pressure, acting with integrity, supply chain logistics, building networks. And so through your lived experience in prison, it's a lens and it allowed you to channel them in a new way that is in service to other people. And allowing other people to benefit from the same shift in environment and shift in perspective that you got when you moved to Albuquerque. speaker-1: Yeah, definitely. 'Cause I you know, it's not lost on me that I'm very fortunate sourced a to have an uncle who's a PhD professor who had the ability to give me that opportunity. That's not lost on me, you know, not everybody has that. So if I could be a little bit of a guiding life, or he was for me to anybody, I'm willing to take on that world, you know. 'Cause not everybody has that someone in their levels. You know, a lot a lot of a lot of the struggles too in in Bohia in those environments, it's generational, you know. You grow up, your f family's all in it. How do you break out of that? It's hard, you know? speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you're touching on something else that I think is really kind of interesting that a lot of people will probably relate to is this idea of imposter syndrome. and you talked about this when you when you said you had to sort of let go of your old identity when you moved and you know, you were no longer the gang member from LA. Who the fuck are you now? And so as you're wrestling with these questions, you get these invitations to participate. You get this invitation to participate in Phi Beta Kappa. You get this invitation from your professors at UNM to be part of this committee to support students who are who were incarcerated navigating the education system. How do you get the cojones to say yes to those opportunities? Because I imagine as you're wrestling with these identity questions, you're like, can I I would be, can I do this? Can I rise to the occasion? So what gave you the guts to do it? speaker-1: I I think that's post it for a circle moment to how we opened and about you and I being Ted X ABQ speakers. I let moral support we gave one another and we all did amazing. On delivery day we all did amazing. So like with Fight Peter Catfather was Timothy Nice, he gave me that support for me to be able to see beyond myself and beyond who I used to be to maybe get a glimpse of who I could be. And and and and and that's happened. You know, Tom just as I'm do I've always been the type of person where like I would I wasn't really scared of much. So now that skill transferred into this life, so why not try it? Yeah, why not try it and see what happens. and I I think that really allowed me to give myself the opportunity to see beyond Who I always thought I used to be. But hey, look, I'm I'm imposter syndrome is rule. I had to do therapy. I went to therapy. 'cause I honestly, you know, survivors survivors guilt imposter syndrome. I remember my first meeting at the mayor's office. all the deputy chiefs from Albuquerque Police Department were there and there was a social worker there. So actually she saw how nervous I was that she pulled me to the side. She took me outside. And she told me straight out, she's like, There's no Fuck everybody in there. You're more important than all of them because of you, because without you, this program doesn't work. She was a no rule about you trying to impress them. You're giving this job for a reason. Just you go do go do what you gotta do in the community and and you'll be fine. And up until that point, you know. I was dressing business casual and all that. Her the dress code. After that meeting she's right, you know what? She's right. Started wearing my fucking LA hats, my jersey, my jeans, my shoes. And I it was I it was even more well received within community 'cause I looked like one of them. I felt like one of them. I was talking like one of them. And and the the program became successful so much so that I expanded. so yeah, like just that's that's a big thing, you know, for for a lot of us. I I mean I don't experience that anymore, but in that beginning that could have took me out. You know, that sense of not belonging or not you don't belong here, that could have took me out. So I always tell people if you're in a space, you deserve to be there. You know, you're If you're in a space, whether you got invited or you were asked to come, or you just find yourself there where wherever you trust me, you belong there. Mm-hmm. You know, I wrote a book and the title of the book is The Hood's Curriculum Turning Lived Experience into Political Power. My whole messaging in that book those closest to the pain are closest to the solution. So when it comes to politics when it comes to allocating fans for programming and all that, we should be given those shots. We should be given those opportunities because like myself right now him out of New Mexico from the southern the southern tip to the n most northern tip. I know a whole community is doing the actual work, you know. So I always tell people just look, if you're there, you belong, just embrace it. And don't let your insecurities take you out of an opportunity that could have changed your whole life. one person could change the whole dynamic for the rest of our family retreat to come, you know? So I tell people don't give up before that happens. speaker-0: Yeah. You know, I think it's interesting again because I hear this theme from a lot of the guests on the podcast is that that s external support that they got at the very beginning was really instrumental in helping them see the possibilities that they can't yet see for themselves. And now that's something that you do for other people. The other thing that is a theme is that they get help, they get therapy, they go to AA, they go to whatever support and resources are needed to help them. figure out a new identity, figure out a new possibility, figure out whatever it is that they need to figure out and heal, quite frankly. speaker-1: Yeah, definitely. 'cause if we're still holding on to all of our own shit. If we're still holding on to all that old shit, how can we help somebody move on from their shit if we haven't moved on from our own? Yep. Yeah. It's like and this is all you know, all the trainings I've taken and all that they always say, you know, before you pour into somebody else, you gotta pour into yourself. Meaning you have to vote on yourself first before you're able to help anybody else. And and yeah, you know, and I'm not I'm not I'm not cured, you know, like sometimes I there's certain places where I won't go, like overly crowded places, 'cause of my anxiety. And one of my biggest things in the in in being in that lawyer was just like being disrespected and and and stuff like that. So like just being suffered well enough to know what what's gonna trigger you and then not just do it. You know, like I'm at home all the time. Like people say you you're isolating yourself and no I'm not. There's just not news for me to be out there. Yeah. So I'll sit at home, watch the film night work 'cause it relaxes me. I'll read a book. I'll do my coursework for my for my classes and and I'm come I'm content. I'm happy 'cause there was a point in time in my life where none of this was a possibility for me and now that it is, I enjoy it. speaker-0: So Angel, you said a couple of things that I think are standing out to me at this point. and it's this tension between you gotta let go of the old shit, but yet you talked about the anxiety and crowded spaces, and there's still some shit that lingers. And so I think the question that I have for you is how do you carry your past without let it dictating your future? speaker-1: Yeah. I think for me is An easy way to an easy way to put it is Knowing who I was, but having a clear vision of who I wanna be. Knowing what I'm capable of. So knowing what or not to do so that those other doubt capabilities don't come out anymore. You know? I think that's for me, that's what keeps me grounded. knowing the impact that I wanna create and knowing the state, the steps I get it it takes to get there keeps me grounded and keeps me focused. But like I said, look, you mentioned it earlier, Well then a well that a piece too. So what I'll just take you back real quick. Just a funny story. twenty twenty one, a friend of mine had got killed and Life had been accumulating and like I was seriously thinking of going back to Los Angeles. the excuse for the funeral, but I kinda knew what I was gonna go do. cause this friend that they killed, he he was younger than me and I felt responsible for him because I'm the one that brought him into the gang. So he then I had entered this contest that I had completely forgotten about. And it was filming yourself of five minutes universe talking about your journey of reentry. And I had submitted that video like four months prior, I had completely forgotten about it. On the day I decided to buy myself a train ticket, go back to Lac Los Angeles, I got an email from that organization that I won the contest and they were gonna fly me out to Pentacola, Florida to be keynote speaker at a conference. At the first annual conference. So That that was a defining moment in my life where that got me focused in there on my true purpose. And then once I got there I met Rosetta. I've been involved with this organization for the past five years now. And they're just amazing. You know, like the the support that this group gives me and I have open doors in Florida if I ever wanna move to Florida, you know, and have actually even thinking about it, you know, change of scenery. but is just you know having that support. It goes a long way, you know, having somebody that you could talk to, especially when they're going through shit. That's all the difference between doing something stupid or getting back on track, you know? Mm. So speaker-0: Yeah. I mean, that's a hell of a divine sign. You talked about those earlier, right? So your choices were go back to LA and do something stupid, or you get this invitation to go to the opposite side of the country and build a different network with a different group of people that that keeps you on this path. speaker-1: Yeah, definitely. speaker-0: Hmm. Okay. Well, before I ask you the final question, w what if anything feels unsaid at this point? Anything else that you feel like is worth reflecting on? speaker-1: You know, it it takes a while. Like if any of your listeners have a family member who has been incarcerated, building that trust takes time. You know, like it it wasn't to like after two years that I was in Albuquerque when my family f finally saw, like, my god, he's actually doing it But also just like Being the support for that person and give themselves a chance. to actually you know kind of display out I think will make a world difference for somebody who has struggled with incarceration or addiction or whatever 'cause society at large will put us down and they'll take opportunities from us. You know, I don't know if you notice, but suddenly incarcerated people are we're not enough we're not a protected class. Which means we could get discriminated against for jobs, housing, anything. and so just being there for someone could make or break somebody's future, you know. I think just listening to them, see what they're going through and it's hard at times, you know. I I have an aunt who just got out of federal prison again. And sometimes my family members are asking me, Well, why do you still talk to her? Why do you take the phone call? 'Cause Everybody else has rolled off 'cause for the past thirty years that's what she has shown. She's not gonna change. But what if this is the time? What if one ten minute conversation where I'm lending in my ear makes a difference for her? You know? So that's where my perspective kinda differs from theirs. Because You know if people do it for me, why wouldn't I do it for somebody else? speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think I think you're raising a really tough question that people struggle with is wanting to give people the benefit of the doubt, wanting to support people, but also, you know, having been burned in the past or not feeling comfortable taking that risk because, you know, the more times you take the risk and you fall flat on your face, your tolerance for taking the risk going forward is is smaller. but I'm hearing you say that. notwithstanding all of your experiences, you're still willing to take the risk. speaker-1: Yeah, I mean well we knew definitely. Like even if any of your listeners, if they have any way to communicate with you, there's ever somebody in their life that they would want me to talk to, I'm I'd be totally willing to. 'Cause Yeah. You know. speaker-0: There are experiences where you say, Yeah, it's not worth the risk right now. Can you sort of tease that out based on your people reading skills, based on all of the skills that you learn from being in prison? speaker-1: Well, in the three early on when I started on this path on on this on this career trajectory for myself and working with people, I pulled more into them that they were willing to point to themselves. So I learned early on and that's when I went from I'm gonna save the world to where I'm gonna plant seeds. 'Cause now it's not for me no more. I'm giving you the little speaker-0: Risk is different. speaker-1: Yeah. And that's how I approach everything now, so that's why I'm willing to talk to anybody. And if I could plant a seed that it's gonna help five, six months, a year from now, eventually everybody that changes has to do it because they wanna do it. Not because they're talking to somebody who has an inspirational life story. It has to come from them. So I give people the opportunity to come to that decision on the world later on, 'cause we've all we've all hold the same. You can eat a host of walls but you can't make a jacket. And that's very true, you know? So I just try to plant seeds, try to put little ideas in their head. I'll try to get to know people to see what they what they really like, you know. I've met people who love drawing, who I've recommended, whoa, graphic design, you know, like just little things like that, you know, because if you can help somebody find their life's purpose, first of all for them, they're gonna love their life at that point. it's not really gonna feel like they're working or anything. 'Cause that's how I feel. When I work with people it doesn't feel like work. It just feels like something I get to wake up and do every day, you know? speaker-0: Amazing. Okay. All right. so plant the seeds without expectation, which is a little punny based on, you know, one of our fellow TED Talk speakers or TEDx talk speakers. But okay, so final question. what would you say to someone who's out of the shit? They're out of their crisis, out of whatever, but they're still rebuilding. speaker-1: Find yourself a support group. It it could be one person, it could be ten people, profine yourself y I want to say light minded but like a lot of my support and you know I've had a lot of mentors I've had I've had politicians as mentors and all that and and you find somebody who's compassionate, caring and empathetic. And if you do have the amazing chance of finding somebody who has gone through it. I always say there's nobody better to help somebody out of the shit who has been through that same shit themselves. You want but or just having very kind, compassionate, empathetic people around you is gonna make a world of difference, you know. speaker-0: Okay. All right. So, Angel, I got a lot out of our conversation. I'm just gonna roll through what I what I'm taking away here. The importance of finding support, because they will hold the belief for you in the moments when you can't, because that belief and others can make a world of difference. Say yes to the opportunities, even if you feel like you don't belong. I think it's this idea of perseverance, embracing change. Reframing your views on failure. And I think the other thing that you talked about was gotta let go of the old shit to move forward. And then the last thing that you talked about was really about the loved ones who are supporting and being patient because rebuilding trust both in them and their own trust in themselves takes time. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: Okay. Excellent. All right, well, Angel, thank you again for your time. I'm so glad you were here with me today. Listeners as always, thanks for listening. That's it for this episode of Through the Shit. Thanks for listening. If you liked this podcast, like, share, and subscribe, and maybe send it to someone who needs a boost because they're going through the shit. While you're at it, tell them how important they are to you. If you have a story of shit to share or you're in the shit now, I'd love to hear from you. Email me at through the shitpodcast at gmail.com or go to our website at through the shit.com. I'll see you on the flip side.