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Women want men, women most affected | Maintaining Frame 165 · Honey Badger Radio

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: All right, hello everybody, and welcome to Honey Badger Radio.
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: My name is Brian with Alison. This is maintaining Frame
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: number two forty six Women want Men, Women most Affected.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Sorry for the late start. It was Alison, not me.
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: Yes, no, I had a progression of things, like we
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: have dental appointments today, so I had a bunch of
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: stuff I needed to get ready for and everything took longer,
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: and then we had a little bit of a doggo
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: emergency and then the camera crapped out. So yeah, it's
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: it's it's it's on my end, as it usually is.
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: And but I do want to point out that this
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: is rant Zirker, not maintaining frame. Oh yeah, you put
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: the title in as rant Zirker.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: Hello a second, you're right, Yeah, yeah, I gotta change
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: the number. It's okay, I'll change it to maintain a frame.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Not a big deal for a moment.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: For a moment, I wasn't the worst thing about Bunny
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: Badger Radio.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: But yeah, but I'm figuring that right now, and I've
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: apologized and acknowledged it too, so you are still the
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: worst thing. Yeah, okay, So uh one sixty five.
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: All right, and once we okay, well, while Brian is
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: fixing that, why don't I do the things. Feed the
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: Badger dot com slash just the tip if you want
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: to send us a tip and a message. Feed the
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: Badger dot com slash support if you want to support
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: the show. And once again, we are having a meetup
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: in Calgary, Alberta, Canada, September thirteenth of this year. So
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: if you're interested in finding out more about that, it's
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: feed the Badger dot com slash events. To keep track
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: of all the details, you will have to send a
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: email if you want to know the venue, because I
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: don't want the usual suspects to catch wind of this
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: and turn it into spects. The usual suspects would be
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: the you know, the the feminists and other narra.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: They don't like.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like again, like for the third time. First time
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: was successful. Second time I'm not so successful. But you know,
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: a pinch of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: So feed the Badger dot calm slash event or events
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: if you want to keep track of our meetup. It
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: looks like it looks like it might be uh, it
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: might be a lot of fun and uh, you know,
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: fair amount of people are seem to be joining up,
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: seem are are joining up. So once again, feed the
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: Badger dot Yeah, feed the Badger dot com slash. I mean,
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: it's not gonna be huge, right, but it'll be. It'll be,
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: it'll be, it'll be fun. The last one was fun.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: It was a very it was very relaxing. Everyone was calm.
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: It was nice to be around people who weren't insane
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: like the rest of the world. And so feed the
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: Badger dot com slash just the tip to send us
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: a message, Feed the Badger dot com slash support, to
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: support us, Feed the Badger dot com slash events. There's
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: a theme here to uh find out more about our event,
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: and that also has a link to our online us
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: to our discord community if you're interested in that. It's
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: all in the low bar as well. So I'm done.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: Shall we begin?
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: Sure, So we're gonna be looking at the article that's
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: been making the rounds called the Trouble with Wanting Men.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: Let me display it really quick. Hold on a second
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: here so you guys in the vertical can see it.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: And I was written by Jeane Garnett. It is painfully long,
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: but again I'll just give you you didn't know you
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: didn't know.
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: I actually I listened to the whole thing, Like when
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: I was doing my little respondable animation, I listened. I
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: listened to all of it. I'm like, what is this drivel?
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: This is?
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's it's like, this is what this
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: is where we are now, this is how feminine everything
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: has become. There has to be a massive like story,
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: even when you're trying to make some kind of social, political,
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: or cultural point, instead of just making that point. Huh.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: Even on the level of story, this fails. Well, sure,
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: but it doesn't ejaculating atmosphere.
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah. But I mean, like, if I wanted to learn
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: something about the world, like mechanically speaking, I don't want
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: a story. Just tell me what's going on. I don't
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: care if it's really well written. I feel like there's
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: something deceptive happening inherently if you're telling me a story,
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: you know, if you're giving me like this, this weaving,
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: this tale that's an anecdote of something that you've experienced,
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna think that you're lying to me. That's just
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: the way I work. Maybe that's a man thing. Just
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: give me the data. That's all I care about. So
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: here's the title. It's called the Trouble with wanting men.
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: Women are so fed up with dating men that the
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: phenomenon even has a name, hetero fatalism. So what do
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: we do with our desire? Totally made up word? By
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: the way, guys, have you noticed step feminists like making
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: up words? I think I've said this a few times.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: They take this word, this thing that they put it together,
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: call it a new word, and then all of a
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: sudden it makes their crazy ass beliefs academic.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: So yeah, no, I did get it in. Yeah, certainly
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: it is a thing that they do like they're they're
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: delivering the patina of academic authority to their to their
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: emotions about things, which is not how it's supposed to work,
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: but apparently it does because academia refuses to actually call
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: feminists out on anything. All right, let's uh, all right,
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: we shall we do the animation or yeah, we're.
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: Gonna listen to Yeah, we're gonna listen to this.
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: Good. I didn't do it in vain?
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I mean it's like I said, it's like
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: a half hour long video. Yeah, so I don't know
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: how much of this is run to get through, but
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: it's done in a narrative style, and like I said,
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: it's very long, but there is like a final sort
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: of conclusion, So if we need to like cut to
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: the chase, we can do that too.
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: So yeah, we'll give them a sense of the absolute
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: state of I mean, I know that she won't care
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: that she has zero seems to have zero understanding of men,
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: but she's also a terrible writer.
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm.
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: Just just pondered, you know what. I actually was reading
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: this and listening to this, and there's certain points of like,
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: is this AI? Is this AI?
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: No, it's just NPCs.
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: Oh are you sure? Because there's some phrasing here that's
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: so okay, Well, let's she might.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: She might. I think it's a human person that might
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: have used AI to help her write this.
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: That's yeah, Yeah, that's probably That's probably the way it went.
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: That's my guess. All right, So let's.
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: See, let's go trouble with wanting men. Women are so
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: fair up with dating men that the phenomenon even has
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: a name, hetero fatalism. So what do we do with
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: our desire? By Jean Garnett, July twenty first, twenty twenty five.
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: The stranger arrived at the bar before I did as
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: I intended him to and was waiting for me at
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: a table and back. He had the kind of face
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: I like, and he had been a little difficult to
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: pin down delayed in his responses, which I also like.
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: The place was loud with the having fun sounds people
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: make when they expect to have fun.
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: What is aphrazing? The place was loud with the having
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: fun sounds.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: I think she's clever. Is this sounds like an alien
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: observing human behavior? But I think that she thinks it's
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: really funny to right yourself as something completely divorced from
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: the rest of the world. Like you're like, well, I'm
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: here with the weird humans and they're doing human things,
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: but they don't understand me. It's like the guy standing
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: in the corner at the party, you know, little do
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: they know that? I yeah, that the meme, Yeah that's
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: and there's a bit of a let's say, vanity in that,
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: but I do think that's what it is. Yeah, okay, okay,
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: back to this.
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: So we were leaning in to hear each other his hair.
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: I thought would be good to put my hands in.
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: There comes a time usually when it eats, the beats
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: of eye contact are enough. We passed through these beats,
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: took each other's wrists and met across the table, which
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: was wide enough to frustrate kissing in the right way,
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: keeping the rest of us well apart. Back at my place,
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: he was a little shy, I thought, or a little
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: out of practice, but I felt he wanted me, which
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: was what I wanted. To be organized and oriented by
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: his desire, as though it were a point on the
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: dark horizon, strobing. I was really looking forward to seeing
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: you again, he texted me the following week around lunchtime.
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: But I'm going through some intense anxiety today and need
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: to lay low. Totally understand, I replied, But I didn't
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: feeble fallible. Looking forward is not longing. A man should
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: want me urgently or not at all.
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, all right. So the guy has anxiety disorder
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: of some kind, presumably, or at least thinks he does,
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: and she's judging him because he's not her romantic ideal
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: of the constantly ready stud. Oh, he's a human being, Like,
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: all right, This is the problem. These women do not
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: realize or or can't handle the fact that there is
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: a human being attached to the penis. Can't handle it,
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: They just they just they just they just it blows
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: their mind because they objectify men to that degree. And
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: everything in her sentence is all about how, you know,
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: he made her feel, nothing about any kind of how
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: her physical desire, not just how he feels. No emotional compatibility,
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: no compatibility in terms of ethics or hobbies or anything.
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: Everything was just reduced down to the purely physical. And
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: then the moment she realized, oh hey, there's a there's
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: an actual human being attached to this potential sexual experience.
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: Do not want it? Jact like, you know, her problem
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: is she is a sexual predator. Well, I mean maybe
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: she's she's consented. I don't even know how she could
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: conceive of consent because she doesn't conceive of her sex
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: male sexual partners as human beings, right, They're just sexual outlets.
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: And she probably wonders why she doesn't have relationships.
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: Because she does she's well they we'll get into it later.
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: But she's in. She's in. She's married or was she's
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: in the midst of a divorce, and this is like
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: a date she's having after the divorce or like while
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: the divorce is in progress. But the thing that that
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: struck me when I when I read this was that
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: her whole way of, let's say, evaluating her date was
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: all based on this kind of like airy, fairy, blurry
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: stuff that's happening that she liked because it's so vague
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: and obscure, like where she says, you know, we pass
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: through these beats, look at each look at each others,
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: took each other's wrists, and met across the table, which
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: was wide enough to frustrate kissing in the right way,
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: so to frustrate engagement in a way that is to
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: her right, keeping the rest of us well apart. Back
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: at my place. Was he was a little shy, I thought,
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: or a little out of practice, but I felt he
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: wanted me, which is what I wanted. To be organized
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: and oriented by his desire as though it were a
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: point on the dark horizon stroving. So there's like this,
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: I want him to want me, but not do anything,
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: but I want to feel like it could, something could happen.
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: It's incredibly frustrating. And then she's like, oh, you know,
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: his hair, it'd be nice to put my hand in
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: his hair, but she's not gonna do it. So it's
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: like there's all of this like waiting for him to
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: take some initiative, but not too much. And that's like
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: in that's throughout the whole thing. So no wonder he's anxious,
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: you know, like, well, yeah, if he like oversteps, what happens.
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: I don't think he's got an anxiety disorder. I think
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: it's a normal guy. I think this woman is a
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: fucking lunatic, That's what. I think. That guy's just normal.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: He's like aware of what what what year is in
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty five? Me too, still going on what happened
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: to that guy that said something to that girl in
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: the office and lost his job? Yeah, I'm not fucking
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: doing that. I'm gonna be very very protective of myself.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean, this woman's writing just says it all.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: It's all about like she wants to have a degree
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: of control over the chaos of whatever the moment is.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: Like there's you know, the chaos of when you're on
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: a date with someone and you don't know like where
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: the boundaries are at. She likes that. She likes that
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: the boundaries are undefined and that like the men are
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: like trying to figure them out, but she's also ready
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: if they go too far. So this is like an
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: impossible situation. It's an impossible It's like some kind of
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: Greek punishment by the gods. You know, It's like having
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: your guts eaten out by a vulture every day and
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: then they grow back that it's it's impossible, but this
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: is what she wants. These are the people you should avoid,
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: like the place. That's all I'm saying. He's nothing but relax.
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: But the other thing is that he again I would
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: like to reiterate, she reduces him down to a sexual
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: object in her passion play. And you're right, it's it's this.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: He is expected to desire her, but there's no consideration
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: for any aspect of who he is as a person,
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: not at all.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: No, no, not, none of that comes up, I don't think.
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, all right, into a ritual of frustrated horniness
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: fantasy masturbation snacks. When a friend urged me to join
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: her and two other women for dinner. Of course he
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: has anxiety, said one of them, a therapist who sat
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: across from me at the restaurant. That's life, that's being
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: alive and going to meet someone you don't know. Well, yeah, okay,
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: said the woman.
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: Maybe increase the speed so we get through this today
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: at some time, I'm this universe before the heat death
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: of the universe.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, all right. So she has a friend who's a
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: therapist that says anxiety is just life, which is basically
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: another way of saying, just deal with the guys. Yeah,
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: you might offend her and lose your job or go
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: to jail, get beat up by police or like you know,
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: white knights that are in the vicinity, But fuck it,
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: you know, be a man, suck it up, take the risk,
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: and it's you know, that's life. Man. This is a therapist.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: By the way, according to her, this is why men
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: don't go to therapy.
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: A historian, it's called sexual tension. Stay with it for
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: a minute and you might get some They can't, said
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: my friend with triumphant disgust. She told us about a
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: woman she knew who was dating a man from another city.
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: After weeks of saying I can't wait to see you,
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: the man ghosted her during his actual visit. His explanation later,
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: he'd been too anxious. Ah, poor baby, cried the historian,
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: and we all coued and moaned for the poor wittle
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: Freddie cat booboo, working ourselves into a fire.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: You guys, are absolute assholes like, uh, you you three
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: or four or however many and then and this is
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: a therapist too, You're just reprehensible human beings. And I
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: can tell you what actually happened with that guy. He
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: sensed that you are a reprehensible human being and he
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: ghosted you because he didn't want to spend any time
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: with you. And he said, oh, I was too anxious
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: because he's trying to flatter You're gigantic, uh like Jabba
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: the hot sized ego. Probably so he didn't avoid any
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: kind of blowback. That's the other thing. Like these these
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: women are like volcanoes ready to explode all over a man,
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: and they wonder why men are anxious? Like there you
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: know that there's this new app called he.
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: Did you talk about?
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: Essentially it was created by a gay man whose mother
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: somehow always ended up texting criminals m and he said
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: he created he has created an app. And this is
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: probably the re the iteration of the where women can
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: rate their dates anonymous. Just let's facilitate.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: More to play the field.
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: But no, but seriously, Brian, what we need today in
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: this world is another instrument of women's relational aggression. Surely
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: that will make dating better, good grief. And actually, as
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: a result of finding out out about that app, I
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: learned about west End Caleb. Did you hear about west
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: End Caleb?
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: A pairent?
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: He was a man who had sex with the woman
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: and didn't give her a relationship, and then she spread
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: rumors through like a TikTok video and then it went
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: viral and this poor dude's like being doxed and and
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: all for having sex with the woman and not having
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: the relationship she wanted with him playing the field, which
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: I thought was okay, Like I thought that was that
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: I thought hookup culture was the way to go. I
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: guess it is for women. But on the other hand,
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: if they want to take somebody that they've hooked up
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: with and turn it into a relationship, the man shouldn't
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: have an opinion on that. He should just go with
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: what the woman wants. And if he doesn't, he's gonna
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: be socially ostracized and have his name smeared. They were
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: even discussed, like there was a Slate article they were
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: discussing about what kind of punishment he should have, and
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: then the Slate article concluded by saying the women that
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: he hurt by having sex with them and not having
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: a relationship with the women that they hurt. Because of
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: the public nature of this vilification of this man, they
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: were once again victimized by not being able to choose
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: his punishment. Punishment for what having consensual sex with you? Like, uh,
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: and so this and now these men are being socially
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: smeared in this article for not having sex, for being like, no,
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: I'm not interested. You're right, Brian, This is like a
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: This is like some kind of horribly tragic Greek torture,
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: enactive forever and ever and ever. And women won't take
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: any responsibility for the absolute crusty mess they've made of dating.
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: Yes, it's all men.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: Oh honey, boo boo.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: You're afraid.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: You're afraid of of all of the ship we can
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: do to you if you if you disappoint us. You're
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: afraid of the fact that we'll smear your name, gets
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: you fired and docked. You're afraid of the fact that
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: we could get you jailed. Oh, these women, they they
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: haven't done anything illegal, but the world would be a
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: better place if they were forced to remain indoors at
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: all times and not allowed to speak in public. And
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: yet what happens here. The Times gives them a platform,
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: a platform for this woman's unbelievable drivel. So now it's
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: not just morally reprehensible, it's also terrible writing. It's drivel. Okay,
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: I don't know what else we can say about this.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: But let's keep going. Let's see how deep the rabbit
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: hole goes.
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: Wity to man up and exploit of us. We were
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: four women at a vegan restaurant in downtown men.
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: Okay, I'll read that again. So all poor baby, cried
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: the historian, and we all coued and moaned for the
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: poor widow, Freddy cat Booboo, working ourselves into a frenzy
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: of laughter over men's inability to quote, man up and
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: fuck us end quote. We were four women at a
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: vegan restaurant in downtown Manhattan. There's your problem right there.
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: We knew that what show we were in, and we
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: couldn't help. But wonder, in a smug, chauvinistic way, where
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: were the men who could handle the hard stuff, like
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: leaving the house for sex. So it's the master Caleb.
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: That was west End Caleb, and west End Caleb. He
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: caught his name smeared. He he became a viral sensation
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: condemnation by a bunch of harassing women. Right and maybe
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: west End Caleb decided it wasn't worth it anymore.
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: Men all over are deciding that, yeah, really, this is.
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: This is Richard, this is what's freaking hilarious. These women
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: want to have more and more and more powered, punish
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: men for getting it wrong, and then shame men for
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: being anxious about getting it wrong. They deserved the sociopaths.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: They deserve the Wade Wilson's.
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: Yep, Okay, all right, Manhattan, We knew what show we
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: were in, and we couldn't help but wonder, in a smug,
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: chauvinistic way, where were the men who could handle hard
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: stuff like leaving the house for sex. The therapist mused
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: about the anxiety of needing to justify the phallus he knows,
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: She said, from the child's point of view, it's like,
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: I get what mom is for, but what are you for?
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: What's the point of your thing? This sent us miming
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: confrontations with imaginary members who invited you? What's your deal?
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: Are you lost, which led to wisecracks about the not
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: so precision scull of the surgeon. The therapist was seeing privately.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: I hope you left her. You are disgusting people. And
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: the fact is that you feel free to say this.
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: Ship in public just says volumes about our society.
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: Can imagine women we just dog on men anywhere and
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: people will just be okay, Yeah.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: Can you imagine a group that.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: We live in, a patriarchy that oppresses women.
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: Just dogging on women in public? I don't think I've
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: ever seen that.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: Uh, women dogging men in public?
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: No, men dogging women in public?
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: This, Yeah, not not unless it's deserved, and even then
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: I think it's usually just like a private matter. But
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: I think that, like gossiping about people, men don't generally
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: do that. Some do, but I don't think it's popular
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: with men. But anyway, let's Yeah. So when she said
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: we know a show we're in, she's referring to Sex
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: in the City. Yeah, so let me.
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: Tell you something. I actually watched the original Sex in
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: the City. And I know this is gonna sound horrible,
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: but it wasn't. It wasn't that bad, especially compared to
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: writing today. Have you ever watched Sex in the City.
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: No, it's of no interest to me.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Well I watched it because once again, Richard Bierres
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: made a request, and so I'm watching it with the
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: writers group because we can glean stuff from bad writing
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: and what to avoid. It's actually, it's actually pretty uh,
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: it's pretty useful to look at stuff that failed more
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: than stuff that succeeds in order to know what to avoid.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: But the original Sex in the City, the characters in
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: Sex and the City they had they didn't necessarily have
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: self awareness, but the writer did so, and there was
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: moments of self awareness. So it was like almost like
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: a a less mean spirited ab fab. So these these
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: women would be saying things and then doing the opposite
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: like that, they'd be doing the opposite and it would
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: so they would they would show off the hypocrisy of
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: it a lot of their attitudes. So it had this
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: kind of subtle critique to it, which I'm sure flew
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: over the head of many of the women watching it,
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: and most certainly the women of this generation who have
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: the media literacy of a piece of lint. But so it's, uh,
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: it's not as bad as people think, because it does
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: have a critique of the shallowness of female culture in it,
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: and the reboot does not. Though it's completely flattened.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: Well maybe the point because like, when did that show
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: come on?
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: It came out in the nineties, right.
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: So what was what was our society like in the
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: nineties when it comes to women compared to today. I'm
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: willing I can tell you women are way, way, way
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: crazier than they were. Not that they weren't crazy in
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: the nineties, but they're way crazier now than they were.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: And I think that the nudging it was about the nudging.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: It wasn't about explic explicitly saying that men are trash, yeah,
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: because you couldn't do that and be successful. But you
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: had to nudge. You had to do little, tiny baby steps,
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: and that's what they did. That's why Sex and the
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: City looks like freaking awesome TV compared to TV today,
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: because well.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: Okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna because I actually watched it.
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: I don't know what later seasons because I only watched
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: the first two episodes, But the women were just as
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: bad as the men, if not worse, because they were
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: hypocritical right in Sex and the City, So I mean, and.
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: Uh, but then but then, but okay, they were just
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: as bad, but they remained likable characters right, because you
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: had to keep going back to the show to watch
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: it over and over. For sure some of them.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: Were likable, Like, uh, I don't know if there's likable,
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: I guess, I guess about it.
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: Like who who gets to continue to have their story
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: told when these are when this is going on, and
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: even when they make you know, they do terrible things
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: or they make big mistakes, there's a bit of redemption
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: and then it moves on. But then that thing that
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: they did that's really bad loses a little bit of
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: its sting over time because the people watching their conditioned
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: to think of them as decent people anyway, and then like,
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: they can do it a little bit more, and they
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: can do it a little bit more, and they can
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: do a little bit more, and we normalize this a
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: little bit more over time, so that today you can
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: You said that when they did the remake, it was bad,
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: but like if you were someone who was conditioned with this,
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: you're gonna see more of the oh so so and
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: so is just up to her old shenanigans.
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, even even the female the female fans
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: of the original thought this was bad. And it was
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: bad because none of the there was none of the
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: subtlety subtle critique there was there was. It was unbelievably
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: bland and choc, a bloc with woke crap. Like then,
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: one of the characters in the first in the reboot
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: was a gender fluid lesbian of some kind, and.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: It was just that.
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was just it was. It lost any of
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: its social critique, and honestly, if I were to I
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: can only make this statement on the first two episodes.
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: If there was any social critique going on, it was
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: social critique of women, maybe a little bit of men,
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: but much more of women. And for whatever reason, that
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: had an audience in the nineties. But in the reboot
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: everything is so weirdly sexual at the same time as
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: about as like hallmarky, Like everything is like a Hallmark card.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: Everybody talks in Hallmark card ease, and it's just like
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: any merit of the original is gone. And there are
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: a lot of the original female audience that is really
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: upset over that because it's just terrible writing and they're
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: hate watching it because it's terrible writing. And it's just
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: good to know that the general loss of quality in
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: writing craft is also harming women's intellectual properties as well.
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: They're suffering too, Brian. It's not just men, yeah, because
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: they're suffering from a lack of Yeah, they're suffering from
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: a lack of merit in writing craft.
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: Everyone is I got a couple of super Child's. I
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: should read one at the beginning of the show, but
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: I just got another one. So Richard Bierre gave us
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: five dollars and said this was yesterday at nine twenty two.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: It was after Alison or Hannah show. Given how many
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: parents so willingly hopped on board the gender ideology bandwagon,
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: I would say that some adults are either more vulnerable
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: to the brainwashing tactics or perhaps due to marketing, they
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: are pursuing the latest fashionable trend. Just like a redneck
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: can't just walk past the bass boats at the bass
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: pre shops stores because the boats have the glitterfish and
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: clearcoat on the hull, and it being a marketed huh.
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: It's he says, glitter. I guess glitter fish.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: Glitter finish, clearcoat on the hull. Yeah, like uh, and
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: it and it being a marketed fashionable trend means that
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: those on this path are in for a brutal rug pull.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: When a marketing meeting decides that the gender ideology is
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: no longer the hip, hot and happening thing anymore. It
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: comes up with something else to replace it with. Part
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: of that will be how those lifetime patients are so
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: yesterday and no longer worthy of attention and affirmation. Okay,
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: that was I know, completely out of context. It was yesterday.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: I don't really have the full context either, because despite
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: managing the stream, I wasn't listening to what the conversation was.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: So I'm sorry. Then Richard Viere gives us five dollars
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: today and says this, the way this is opening is
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: reminding me about the interview that Alison had with that
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: one particular columnist in Saskatoon. The article sounds like the
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: writer is trying to write a novel or a chapter
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: of a novel as an article.
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: Yep, that's exactly what she's trying to be the next
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: sex in the city, except she has doesn't have the
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: self awareness to write at least the original, and she
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: doesn't have the blandness to write this the new one.
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: Well, that's the thing to a lot of these aspiring
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: journalists and editorial writers. They want to be right, they
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: want to be fiction writers, so they try to use
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: every opportunity to, you know, to write an opinion piece
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: and make it into something of a piece of literature.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: And of course they're not good at it. So all
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: right back to this, I am.
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: Quite susceptible to penis like. I worry that in some
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: hobbsey and state of nature, I might just automatically kneel
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: to the prettiest one. But lately I have been bruised
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: by the ambivalence of men, how they can first want
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: and then become confused about what they want. And this
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: body diminishing humor soothed me, made me feel more powerful,
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: more in control. When do the men get so anxious
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: about desire, asked the therapist, and I said I didn't know,
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: Yes you do. My friend said it was when they
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: were put on notice that they can't just get drunk
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: and grope us. I haven't been dating long. Just the
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: other day my ex husband and I received our judgment
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: of divorce as an email attachment, but long enough to
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: discover that I have a type.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: He's I'm pausing it there for a second, so so
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: her friend said it when, Yeah, the me too movement
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: is why she knows that the me too movement is
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: why men are not approaching women, And there's no sympathy
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: for that because they should do it anyway.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: So yep, well, well they're not going to it's done.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: They shouldn't. I think they should stay far away.
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, especially jet.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: But the thing I wanted to point out is where
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: is like there? They said, Oh, men are unnoticed that
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: they can't just get drunk and grope you. Well, then
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: why are you complaining that they aren't getting drunk and
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: drunk and groping you. These four women are saying, we
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: told men they can no longer get drunk and grope us.
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: Why aren't they getting drunk and groping us?
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Like, are you to put them on notice? All
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: the power we put.
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: Them on notice to stop doing the thing. Why have
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: they stopped doing the thing that we put them on
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: notice to stop doing?
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: Yes, okay, goofy self deprecating rather deferential. A passionate humanist,
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: a sweet guy, a good guy. He tends to signal
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: in various ways his exemption from the tainted category of men.
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: And it is perfect.
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: Okay, So I want to this is important, I think.
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: So she says that she has a type. I'm reading it.
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: So you guys can hear it better because sometimes the
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: ai reading of it it pauses in places that make
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: the sentence sound weird. She says, I have a type.
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: He is gentle, goofy, self deprecating rather deferential, a passionate humanist,
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: a sweet guy, a good guy, so basically a simp Okay.
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: He tends to signal in various ways his exemption from
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: the tainted category of men, and it is perfectly understandable
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: that he would wish to do so. So. She wants
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: a man who basically doesn't like who he is, or
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: at least wants to distance himself from what people think
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: of when they think of men. Yeah.
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: She wants a penis without the man attached. Yeah, or
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: a penis that and the man attached is as small
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: as possible, because she is a predator.
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: Perfectly understandable that he would wish to do so. It
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: must be mildly embarrassing to be a straight man, and
• 34:59
  Speaker 3: it is income and upon each of them to mitigate
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: this embarrassment in a way that feels authentic to him.
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: One of the reasons my marriage.
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: And you know what, why is it incumbent on these
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: men to do this? In order to have relationships with
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: women like you, like I'm going to sell men you don't. Yeah,
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: just you know, you know, you one of these things
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: you can get rid of. And why do why do
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: you have to invite these women into your life? And
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: it sounds like the men that these women are engaging
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: with or are coming to the correct conclusion, they're looking
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: at them and they're saying no, no. And I don't
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: know how old this woman is. I think she's in
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: her forties. But sure, yeah.
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: She's a loser. She's a loser.
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: She's a loser. Yeah, yeah, she's a loser.
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: But we'll get into it more. I didn't finish the article,
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: but I can tell you right now she's a loser.
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: Like, yeah, I did finish the article.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: Tell you she is essentially the female equivalent of an inceel,
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: but like one that is so defiantly sure that she isn't.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: She's like, you know, defiantly confident in her like her
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: let's say her worth, her quality as a person. She
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: is doomed. She has done this.
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: She's not just a female inceel. She's like and many
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: women enter this particular category. She's a female Elliott Roger.
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she's a spinster.
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: You no, No, it's because the thing is that she's
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: not just she's not just incapable of getting a man
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: interested in her sexually. Apparently, she is also self righteous
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: about her actual desirability.
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: Though she can't get a man to commit, because that's
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: what she really wants, but she keeps acting like she doesn't.
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: Are you sure like.
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: I think so? Yeah, we're getting into it later, but uh, okay,
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: I'll belave all right.
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: With another man, whom I'll refer to by his first
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: initial Jay. Spontaneously graceful, with a soft voice and an
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: inordinate sad eyed smile, Jay made me laugh, stopping my breath.
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: Being a good guy, he intimated from the jump that
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: he did not know how to do relationships, giving me
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: to understand that if I expected one with him, or
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: as he may have conceptualized it from him, I did
• 37:22
  Speaker 3: so at my peril, which was his peril too, since
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: he would hate to hurt me. Still, he pursued me.
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: We seem to be doing something together. I keep encountering
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: and hearing about men who can't have These men not
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: heard of, don't want to Editor's picks the twenty three best.
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: Oh I got a jump?
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's that's that's just Ai slaughter. Yeah, we
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: can skip about thirty you about fifteen seconds ahead.
• 37:49
  Speaker 3: My husband and I had an open relationship at the
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: time that Jay and I met.
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: So so here's another thing. Okay, So she's she's got
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: a husband, she's in an open relationship with him husband,
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: so she's obviously like getting laid. That's not seems to
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: be an issue. And she's also in the midst of
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: a divorce with her husband when she starts seeing this
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: other guy.
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: Jay who No, I think she saw Jay before she
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: got divorced.
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: I think she will meet Well, they're so overlaped. Yeah,
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: my husband and I had an open relationship at the time,
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: and that Jay and I met yep, so go, yeah,
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: so she met him while she was like but now
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: she's in the midst of a divorce and she's getting
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: ghosted by dudes. I mean, she's like walking a walking
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: red flag.
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: But anyway, yeah, gigantic at first, limited and although Jay
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: exerted a pleasant pressure against these limitations, ultimately they suited him.
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: I was the one who violated the terms by finding
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: it intolerable after a while to care that much in
• 38:48
  Speaker 3: that way for one person while being married to another.
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: I could not disambiguate sex from love nor love from devotion, futurity,
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: family integration, things I wanted with from Jay, even as
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: throughout the year and a half or so that we
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: saw each other.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: So she said, this is what I'm saying, Like I
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: think she's she's obviously really confused. She said, let me
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: see if I can find it in the written version
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: so I can read it. I could not disambiguate sex
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: from love, nor love from devotion, futurity, family integration, things
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: I wanted with or from Jay, even as throughout the
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: year and a half or so that we saw each other.
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: He continued to gesture to his incapacity to commit, as
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: if it were a separate being an unfortunate child who
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: followed and replied upon him or relied upon him, maybe
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: or a physical restraint. So she wanted commitment. She's like,
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: I can't separate these things. She wants to be able
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: to separate these things. She wants to be able to
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: just have, like you know, sex with guys and have
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: an open relationship. But she said, I'm unable to disambiguate
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: sex from love, nor love from devotion, futurity, family integration.
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: So he wants that, but she's trying to have her
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: cake and eat it. To surprise, surprise, a woman wants
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: to have their cake and eat it too. And this
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: isn't working out. And I think that Jay probably doesn't
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: like this arrangement at all, but that but we are
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: not going to know what his opinion is.
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: So well, he obviously is willing to have sex with
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: this woman but not have a relationship with her. And Lady,
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: the way you treated your husband probably gave Jay a
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: very big window into the kind of person you actually were.
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: And also, he said repeatedly, I'm not the relationship type, right, yeah,
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: and she just ignored that. And then I guess she
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: left her husband in order to pursue Jay, And Jay
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: was like, yeah, no, yeah, wow.
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: He continued to gesture to his incapacity too.
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: Right, she's a loser, hit, That's what I'm saying.
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: She's a loser, but being an unfortunate child who followed
• 41:04
  Speaker 3: and relied upon him, maybe or a physical constraint. I
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: stood there reaching for him while he sat faced back
• 41:09
  Speaker 3: at me like a boxed mime. He couldn't talk about it.
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: He wished things were different. Maybe someday the child would mature,
• 41:15
  Speaker 3: the glass would break, but for now there was really
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: nothing to be done.
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: It seems so now this j guy is a child.
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: That's not No, he's a child, even though he was
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: honest with you from the start and you were not
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: honest with him. He gave you the terms from the start,
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: and you did not accept them. You just got lost
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: in your own high school fantasy of the world while
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: the men around you were explaining how it worked. And
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: then you pursued your high school fantasy around the world.
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: And then Jay said, nope, terms haven't changed, and he's
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: the child you are all. You're right, Brian, This is
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: like she's just a loser. She's a loser with a
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: platform on New York Times.
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: That's right. When women are losers, the New York Times
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: gives them a platform. With men when men struggle, we
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: basically have the FBI monitor them. So yeah, we put
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: them on watch lists.
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: Makes makes perfect sense, makes perfect completely legitimate. Adds nothing
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: to human society nothing. She has a net liability. Jay
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: probably has a job that's entirely possible that has necessity
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: as a part of it.
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, this.
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: Woman, she probably got an avocatta toast job.
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm guessing it's some job that's going to be
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: replaced by ai uh okay I got another super chow
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: Sean Mao gives us five dollars and says, maturity wall
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: in women usually after thirty years old. I've noticed women
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: frequently realize the selfishness and immaturity in fictions such as
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: Gilmore Girl and Sex and the City sometime after young adulthood.
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: Upon realizing this, they are horrified. Yeah, I think this
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: woman's like middle aged though. I think that the delusion
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: can go for for far past their twenties. You hope
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: that women grow out of this stuff, but a lot
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: of them don't.
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: In my experience, my experience, there are women who can
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: see through this crap and there are women who get
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: lost in it. And yeah, it's just age doesn't necessarily matter.
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: Maybe some of these women will grow up when they
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: go through menopause. But you know, I wouldn't put I
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: wouldn't put stock in it. It's not it's not it's
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: not fool proof because there's no incentive for these women
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: to wake up to reality. There's none. I mean, they
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: this is real, like they are being presented with reality.
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: But women have the psychological trick of being presented with
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: reality and then blaming men. Instead of saying, oh, hey,
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: I have to deal with reality as it stands, they're saying, oh,
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: poor boo by boo boo. These men are afraid because
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: of me too. They're stopped doing the things that we
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: told them to stop doing as a result of me.
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: Do they're anxious. Oh poor poor little men, and they
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: have As long as women embrace shaming men instead of
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: taking accountability, they don't grow. They remain perpetual children. I mean,
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: even the whole thing about oh, you know what your
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: mother's for, but what's your dad for? My dad was
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: the one who when I was really struggling in school
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: with literacy. He's the one who taught me to read
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: and write, right, He's the one who encouraged my writing
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: and my drawing and help me do crafts. You know,
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: a father is for developing you as a person. And
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: if you had a father who did that, you know.
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: Okay, all right, I got a super chat from Albatross
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: for five and he says crocodiles, Dang, why aren't those
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: wildebeest and antelopes not crossing the river. They seriously need
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: to man up and just jump in. Yeah, thank you,
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: all right.
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: Things to me surveying the field as a dating novice
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: that this kind of studiously irreproachable male helplessness abounds. I
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: keep encountering and hearing about men who can't have These
• 45:34
  Speaker 3: men not heard of don't want to. Maybe my friend
• 45:37
  Speaker 3: was right about male anxiety at this moment, Yeah, because you.
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: Know why they don't do that, because women our social landminds.
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: When men start saying like Jay, I'm not going to
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: do that, that is not what I want, you ignore
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: him and you attempt to force him into your box
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: literally and metaphorically against his express wishes of how he
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: wants to conduct himself. So I totally understand why these
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: men are like, oh, I have anxiety and then ghost.
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: You know what that is. It's sort of like a
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: lizard ejecting its tail and then running like they are trying. Literally,
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: they are managing you, ladies. They are giving off a
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: vibe that they know will cut off attraction. You know,
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: if a guy wants to ghost a woman and he
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: doesn't want her to go bunny boiler on his ass,
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: what does he do?
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: Oh?
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: I was crying at the latest episode of Whatever, Oh,
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: I just have anxiety, you know. That's what they're doing.
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: They're cutting off their your attraction to them so that
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: they don't have to deal with the crazy anymore. I've
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: heard guys who deal with who handle women, that they
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: do this. They have tricks for nullifying women's attraction so
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: they can eject them from their life, and that's what
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: these men are doing. It has nothing that they are
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: You're right, Brian, these men are probably don't have anxiety,
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: and if they did, these women are absolutely reprehensible for shaming.
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: Isn't this ableism with shaming men who have psychological issues?
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: Like that's disgusting. But regardless, it sounds more like these
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: men have figured out how to become the gray men
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: in these women's lives and then just disappear. They sensed
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: the crazy, they eject their tail and disappear.
• 47:50
  Speaker 3: Like yeah, oh men, okay, let's keep going hell unsure
• 47:58
  Speaker 3: of how to want, how to talk, how to Maybe
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: they are punishing us for the confusion. There are many
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: roots to the species I am circling here, But however.
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: Maybe they are punishing us for the confusion. So like,
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: man don't feel Maybe they're punishing women by avoiding them
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: because she's suggesting. Uh, she apparently thinks, so all right,
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: all right, let's keep going.
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: However we get there, the complaint is so common, such
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: a cultural and narrative staple, that the Academy is weighing in.
• 48:35
  Speaker 3: We now have a fancy word, heteropessimism to describe the
• 48:38
  Speaker 3: outlook of straight women fed up with the mating behavior
• 48:41
  Speaker 3: of men. Coined by the sexuality scholar Asa Saracen, who
• 48:44
  Speaker 3: later amended it to hetero fatalism. The term seems at
• 48:47
  Speaker 3: first glance to distill a mood that is no less
• 48:50
  Speaker 3: timely for being timeless.
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: So heteropessimism coined by the sexuality scholar ass As Sarah
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: Sin who I'm going to look up right now. University
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: of Pennsylvania, Department of English, works and lives in London.
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: Writer and researcher, Oh It's a dude whose work focuses
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: on issues of gender and sexuality, particularly heterosexuality, as well comedy, art, genre,
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: and psychoanalysis. He's a PhD candidate in English at the
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: University of Pennsylvania and is concurrently writing a non academic
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: book about divorce. He holds a BA in Comparative Literature
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: and Gender and sexuality studies from Harvard and an mp
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: M phil. I guess in English from Cambridge.
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: Uh okay, I'm gonna apologize. I have to get an.
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: Ass Yeah it's fine, so I'm ass Sarasin wrote about it.
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: Therefore it's it's real. And apparently this person is invested
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: in divorce and heteropessimism. So I guess he's getting what
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: he needs out of this. You know, let's see what else,
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: what else I can dig up? Whileson's getting some some
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: some stuff here, so uh yeah, asra assa Saracen. Why
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: is gen Z so sex negative? He has a Twitter,
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: so let's see what his ex is. Oh, his accounts
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: go on never mind? Uh yeah, So anyway, a sex apologist.
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: Gonna like get us yeated off of YouTube? Me taking
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: an ashburn on Eric? Really ah, who knows.
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: Well anyway? So uh yeah, this person coined a term
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: and now it's real.
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: So you know, I am twenty seven years married. I
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: am never going to be in the dating sphere and
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: this is giving me a sympathetic headache for men like
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: god grief, Like the only thing you can do is this,
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: The only thing you can do is ghost if you
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: want play the game ghost learn the tricks. Another trick
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: is uh offer them a relationship or or become really needy,
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: and they will cut you out. They just want the
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: opportunity to say no to having a relationship. That's what
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: this woman probably is at too. It wasn't necessarily that
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: she wanted a relationship with Jay. She just wanted the
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: opportunity to uh say no to having a relationship. That
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: that's a possibility because some some women operate that way too.
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: All right, let's uh all right, let's keep them.
• 51:55
  Speaker 3: It was we're all lie nice. A close friend texted
• 51:58
  Speaker 3: me recently, reporting on her third date with a lawyer.
• 52:01
  Speaker 3: He's really really sweet and nice to me and good
• 52:03
  Speaker 3: at sex. No doubt something humiliating in Nightmarish will occur soon.
• 52:08
  Speaker 3: On more than one occasion, when my friend checked in
• 52:10
  Speaker 3: with a lawyer to confirm tentative plans, he did not
• 52:12
  Speaker 3: respond to her for many hours or even a day.
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: Granted I remember this, my friend reasoned, it takes ninety
• 52:19
  Speaker 3: seconds to send a quick reply. The dissonance O I
• 52:22
  Speaker 3: just remember, Oh yeah, yeh.
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: So we have this like high flying lawyer. He does
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: everything right, but he's not responding to this. Chicks text
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: fast enough. My god, ladies, yes, and she says that
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: sabotage yourselves all the time.
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: Something horrible is going to happen. This woman is like,
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: I'm in this relationship with the high flying lawyer. This
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: sex is great, he's very attentive, but something horrible is
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: going to happen. Yes, you, you are going to happen
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: to you. You are going to find a reason to
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: reject this guy or to make him extremely nervous about you.
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: All right, you are going to construct your own destruction.
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: Yep. She sounds like a bunny boiler.
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 53:11
  Speaker 3: All right, let's keep going in person behavior and these
• 53:13
  Speaker 3: silences confused her, and she mentioned this to him. The
• 53:17
  Speaker 3: lawyer was sorry he had kept her waiting. He hadn't
• 53:19
  Speaker 3: meant to, but he said her complaint had got him thinking.
• 53:23
  Speaker 3: He unfortunately wasn't able to escalate whatever was happening between
• 53:26
  Speaker 3: them into a relationship. My friend clarified that he was
• 53:29
  Speaker 3: on to escalate anything, merely expressing a need for clarity
• 53:32
  Speaker 3: about plans he understood.
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: Oh god, you you those.
• 53:35
  Speaker 3: Skills were obviously too different for them to continue dating.
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: Well, you you fucked up, You fucked yourself up. Yep.
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: And this dude was like, yeah, I don't need this
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: in my life, Like okay. He he's attentive in person,
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: but he doesn't text like I on my phone. I
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: think the last text I've received from Jonathan was like
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: ten years ago. Okay, it doesn't matter if he doesn't text.
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: In your little woman's squirrel brain, what you do is
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: you say, Okay, I gotta step through his day. He's
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: extremely busy. He's probably responding to all kinds of stuff.
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: If he's a high powered lawyer, he's gonna have periods
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: where he cannot respond to me, but he sets aside
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: time where he's very attentive to me. I need to
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: do my own thing when he's busy. I need to
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: occupy my time with something other than grooming my sexual identity, right,
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: I need to do so. I needed a hobbies or
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: maybe a job. Like obviously, her job doesn't really keep
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: her that busy. If she can be hysterical about this
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: guy not texting her while he's at work like this
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: is this is the most you sabotaged yourself. And I'm
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: glad that man realized it. I'm glad that then sense
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: that this was the first control freak behavior from you
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: and then he jettisoned you. Ooh gone, and this is great.
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: I'm glad guys are starting to act like this. Yet,
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: get rid of these women before you get into serious
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: relationships with them. Just get rid of them. Like every
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: single woman described in this article needs to go back
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: into the oven and bake for another eighteen years before
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: she's ready to engage in any kind of sexual romantic
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: relationship with another human being. They're all losers.
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Albatross gave us two dollars super chat and says
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: girls are annoyed guys that are adopting their tactics. Well,
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: I think there are men who don't have to put
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: up with that stuff. Like if you're like a lawyer
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: and you're making good money, probably a good looking guy,
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: you know, and a woman and starting to get clinging
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: or act weird. I think that it's he's in a
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: position where he can just be like, nah, this isn't working.
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: And and it's it's ironic because these women also claim
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: they want men that are like you could say, easier
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: to control, which is what's oh self deprecating and kind
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: of you know, humanistic, and but like this guy is
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: not that, Like he he works hard, he probably like
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: plays hard, and maybe at some point he'll settle down.
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: But he's not in a hurry. And this woman wanted
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: to be that. She wanted to be the one. That's
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: really all it is. But they don't have the humility
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: to look at them, you know, to look at themselves
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: and say, you know what, I'm the one who did this,
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: I'm a failure. Yes, I should get my shit together.
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Instead they say things like, I know something horrible
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: is going to happen the meeting.
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And they'll blame him. They'll blame him. They'll say, oh,
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: he he just didn't He wasn't ready for a woman
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: like me. That's all it is. He wasn't ready to
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: want I'm intimidating.
• 56:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, let's keeping the humiliating and nightmarish part, she explained
• 57:00
  Speaker 3: to me was not so much the rejection as being
• 57:02
  Speaker 3: cast against her will as woman eager for relationship. In
• 57:05
  Speaker 3: her memoir Fierce Attachments, Vivian Gornick described, you know what's.
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: Really interesting.
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: Is it is an elaboration of something like a theory
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: that I've been or conjecture that I've been working on,
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: that women take an identity from being the ones who
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: reject being the ones who are desired in being the
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: ones who reject. And what happened there is she ended
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: up being the one she was rejecting it. And the
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: thing is that it's not the loss of the relationship
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: that bothers her, it's the fact that she was framed
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: as the one who was rejected. Isn't that fascinating?
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: Where will girls will be in a relationship and the
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: entirety of the relationship becomes defined by which whether she
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: or the other guy has more power in said relationship,
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: so that that will be like one of the And
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: that's like bad news, like bad news. Get out of there.
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: But I've seen that. Well, oh I got him wrapped
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: from my finger, I got him doing whatever. And you
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: know that it's like a self affirming thing. And if
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: and if it comes down to it, and that guy says,
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: I don't want to see you anymore, that like, despite
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: all of the shaming, they can't stand the idea that
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: they're the ones that got dumped. You know, they want
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: to be the one that dumps.
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: So okay, yep, male friend.
• 58:25
  Speaker 3: What I couldn't absorb, she writes, was his plunging us
• 58:28
  Speaker 3: back into the cruelty of old fashioned man woman stuff,
• 58:32
  Speaker 3: turning me into a woman who waits for a phone
• 58:34
  Speaker 3: call that never came himself.
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: Okay, wait, wait that way, so men can't reject you
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: without being somehow immoral. God damn, these these women are not.
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: There has to be a new word for creatures like this.
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: They're genetically dysfunctional. Like she not only is a loser
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: because she cannot conceive of another human being and how
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: they do. She also is like an extra loser because
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: if that human being rejects her somehow, that is the patriarchy,
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: which is immoral. Did you hear what she just said?
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: Women being rejected by men is patriarchy. I guess we'll
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: need a government program to end that. Put those men
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: who reject women on a watch list. Maybe some drone
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: strikes will help it out, help the situation out. The
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: freaking hell he rejected you, get over it, And he
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: rejected you for good reason because you started to act
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: like a control freak.
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 59:57
  Speaker 3: Image credit illustration by Christina Tsikova. I'm really done. My
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 3: friend said, I can't keep doing this. I don't want
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 3: to be hurt and misunderstood constantly. I need to find
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 3: some other way to live. I agreed, without thinking about it.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 3: This is part of the pessimism, right, the feeling that
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 3: further thinking about all of this is feudal. Surely we
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 3: have done enough thinking by now. I wish I could
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 3: just be gay with you, she said, And I said,
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 3: I wish that too.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: Oh man, you would be a lesbian people killing each other.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: I wish I could be gay with you. Wow. Wow,
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: that's but you know what the ultimate periods narcissism. I
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: want I want to be I want to be valued
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: by someone. It's so important to me, even if it's
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: in like a relationship that I'm normally not for. I mean,
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: you know, because if she was gay, then she would
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: just be gad.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: But it's worse than that, I think. Yeah, they want
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: to get stuff from men but give nothing. Like they
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: do not want men to have the ability to choose.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: They don't want men to have the ability to consent
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: because they find men's consent itself to be an act
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: of oppression. These are predators. Like I said at the beginning,
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: that these are predators, I think at this point it
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: is confirmed. These are predators. These people are they people?
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: Because I don't think they have a human understanding of
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: theory of mind, at least when it applies to men.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: Maybe that's what that whole thing is, what is men?
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: For I understand what mom is, but what Dad guess?
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: Because you don't have a theory of mind when it
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: comes to men. You don't even see them as people,
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: which means you're not people. But this is just this
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: is just awful, Like these are terrifying creatures. This is
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: like the freakin' I don't know the dimension of the
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: elder gods. Just belch something up in these creatures slithered out.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: All right, right, let's let's keep going.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 3: Sarahson might call our performative disaffiliation with heterosexuality our spin on.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 3: Take my wife, please take my straightness, please take my
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 3: attraction to men. Is hetero fatalism a useful concept? I
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 3: took it up for a while, considered the positions. The
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 3: writer and gender scholar Sarah Ahmed has advanced the idea
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 3: of complaint as feminist pedagogy, arguing that to bitch is
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 3: inherently transgressive, a form of resistance philosophy.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: Not bitching is is a feminist act. Yes, I agree,
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: feminism is right about something complaining. Complaining is A is
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: a feminist act of defiances, tranggressive, and if you don't
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: like it, then you're a misogynist. Okay, yeah, I mean
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: you guys are really running out of ideas, Like.
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I hear ideas justifications for rape and abuse when
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: it when a woman does it?
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, complaining, bitching. Uh, it's trends. It's a it's
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: a feminist superpower. We know that, and it's and I
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: like how they think it's unique because like, no women
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: have been doing it since Eve huh.
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: In the special chat, says I wondered if you all
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: would cover this article's ny T the trouble with wanding.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: Men first saw it on Raymond thoughts it so long,
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: makes no sense and just makes women look awful. Yeah.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: I've been thinking about that because the thing is, periodically
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: I get accused of radicalizing men, you know, like Honey
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: Badger Radio gets accused of radicalizing men. I'm like, I
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: don't think we're what's radicalizing men. I mean, if you.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: Don't want, I don't even think. No, I don't really
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: don't think men have it under control. They haven't. They
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: haven't risen up just yet. No.
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, okay, radical acording to their definition of yeah,
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: definitely being I don't think I don't think that okay,
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: essentially being disenchanted, criticized, aritize. Is this being blamed by women?
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: Constantly being disenchanted by women? This doesn't like that's not
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: really radical by any stretch of the imagination, but they
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: consider it radical. I don't think we are the ones
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: who are disenchanting men with women, are causing men to
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: be disenchanted with women. I don't think it's us. I
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: don't think it is. I think if you want men
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: to remain enchanted with women, maybe you should listen to
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: Paul telling women not to speak in public because more
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: women speak in public.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: That was wisdom, Allison. I don't care what anybody says,
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: but like, there's a reason why that was written, and
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: like you know, nobody said we should probably amend this Bible. No, no,
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: leave that in.
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: That's important and that's important.
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: Sorry, why they always go after like Afghanistan and ship like,
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: well what about the women that get Well, maybe they
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: got something right. Maybe Islam is right about women too,
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: and maybe you don't want to confront that. Like I'm
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: not for their methods, but there's probably a philosophical backing
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: to what they do there that yeah, you know you
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: can look at and say, oh, yeah, I get it. Guys,
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't do it, but I understand where you're coming from.
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: So I'm just saying, like.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, sympathetic. It's a society that constantly gets invaded,
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: so they pretty much reframed around women produce and provide
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: logistics and men fight. So maybe stop invading them if
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: you want them to relax into a more uh relaxed
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: form of Islam, shall we say, Okay, let's uh, let's
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: let's go mm hmmm.
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 3: That women in venting their dating woes constitutes a kind
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 3: of negativity as rebellion. Was that what my friends and
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 3: I were doing over dinner, rebelling. The humiliating and nightmarish
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 3: part was not so much no, no, you're not reship.
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: What are you rebelling against the fact that men are
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: saying no to you. That's the act of rebellion.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: Patriarchy.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 2: Smash the patriarchy, takeaway men's ability to consent, put them
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: on the list. Drune strikes men like, what what is
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: this nonsense that I'm listening to? I don't even think
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: in cells get this weird, like.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: No, I don't know, I don't know.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I haven't really gone on many in
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: cell forums, but this is truly deranged. They are literally
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: saying it is immoral for men not to consent to them.
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: What are you fucking mental? You're rebelling against men having
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: opinions about what they do with their penises, So you're
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: a bunch of rapists. Mm hmm. You know, we really
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: need to start getting the idea that men should be
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 2: able to consent to stuff, you know what I mean,
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: like men should be able to consent or not consent
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: to things. We need to stop being a society that
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: just assumes that men consent to whatever we tell them
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 2: to do, because this, this is disturbing. What these women
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 2: are doing is disturbing. Okay, all right, let's keep going. Yeah,
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: I got the.
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 3: Experts say my romantic letdowns have some larger social significance.
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 3: I am not going to argue the men I want
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 3: are not wanting me badly enough, not communicating with me
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 3: clearly enough, not devoting themselves to me. All this certainly
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 3: seems calamitous enough to warranton ism, and if it isn't,
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 3: what the talk cannot be me.
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: The problem cannot be me. It's impossible. Guys, the yeah conceivable.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: You were married and you fucked it up, right, that's
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: what happened. And now you are never going to get
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 2: a man to commit to you the way that your
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: husband was willing to commit to you. Never he was
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 2: willing to commit to you for life. Now you'll probably
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 2: get a man who will commit to you for a
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 2: week a night. Good luck. You fucked your life up.
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 2: And no, you aren't owed anything from men. You're not
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 2: owed their sexuality, you aren't owed their relationships. You're not
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 2: owed their attention, you're not owed their desire. And it
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 2: is freaking weird that you think that you can dictate
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 2: how much they desire you. You are an utter control freak.
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 2: These these these women are beyond losers. There's some kind
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 2: of mental criminals.
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: Okay, you can't be me. It can't be. It can't be.
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: See this is why. This is how you know she's
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: going to keep failing.
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 3: It must be men, right? Men are what is rotten
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 3: in the state of straightness, And why shouldn't we have
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 3: an all inclusive byword for our various pessimisms about them,
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 3: domestic pessimism. They still do less of the housework and childcare.
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 3: Partner violence pessimism femicide is still gruesomely routine, erotically.
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: No, it isn't perties Oh good lord, oh somebody gave
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 2: a really uh, it is a hundred times more likely
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 2: for a kid to be born transgender than for a
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: woman to be murdered by her by a family member.
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 2: Really like, yes, this is this is perishingly rare. The
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 2: rate at which women are murdered by family rivers is
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: perishingly rare.
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, I believe it, but it And also the
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: the chores thing.
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 2: Men are still doing more of the earning right, and
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: they still like in relationships. Men's do more work overall
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 2: between earning and chores than women do, so let it go.
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 2: But they won't. They want more and more reasons to
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 2: reject men because it makes them feel good, while defining
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 2: themselves by men's desire and then calling women like me,
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 2: you pick me.
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 3: Okay, still elude many of them, and the petulantly proud
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 3: masculinist subcultures that have arisen at least in part as
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 3: reactions to these pessimisms keep coughing up new reasons to fear,
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 3: rage against and complain about men, but those men aren't.
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 2: How did this escalate here? We went from men saying
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 2: no to you to a domestic violence done by men?
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 2: Is that domestic violence done by men? How are they?
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 2: How does this relate to that? You had a bunch
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 2: of men who said no, oh, I'm not interested well,
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 2: or or various ways of saying no that put it
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 2: back on them so they don't have to deal with
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 2: the obvious crazy that you you women represent, right, and
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 2: now we're talking about all of this other shit that
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 2: has does not apply to men saying no to you, Like,
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 2: how does this apply?
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: Well, she's trying to justify her being a loser by saying, oh,
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: I see, it's a systemic problem. It's out of my control.
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: It's men are bad everywhere, that's why they're not calling
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: me back. And here's a bunk bullshit I'm gonna spew
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: to help support my claim. But she's not. She's not
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: trying to convince anybody but herself. I think, like, no
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: one's gonna read this shit like I'm surprised we're reading
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: it sort of really what we do. But she's not
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: trying to change my mind. She's trying to convince herself like,
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: I'm not a loser. You got a point.
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 2: She's trying to convince yourself.
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: She'd you have to let your ego die, and like rebuild,
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: you have to rebuild your You're.
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 2: Rebuilt from the problem is that she'd have to face
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 2: how much she destroyed it herself.
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: Yes, she would, she would. That is hard and it hurts,
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: but it's the only way. It's the only way.
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 2: But I just I just astound it. Yeah, men are
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 2: saying no to you. It must be patriarchy. It must
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: be part of a systemic is men saying no to
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 2: me sexually? It must be part of a systemic oppression
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 2: of women. Good God, we the government needs to stop that.
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 2: They need to stop the government needs to stop men
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 2: from saying no to me. Again, I'm not sure I've
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 2: ever heard an incelt say that. I guess this is
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 2: what sexual frustration paired with terminal entitlement looks like. The
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 2: government needs to stop men from saying no to me,
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 2: because that's where she's going. Like, we've had government interventions
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 2: on all of these other heteropessimisms, right, so now we
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 2: need a government intervention to force men to choose women.
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 2: It's a draft, it's a new draft. Yeah you're yeah.
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: Well okay, oh I got another superchild, another super child.
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: Richard Bierre gives us five and says, remember when there
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: were these writers that would be hanging around in coffee
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: shops with their laptops occupying a table because they needed
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: an audience to see that they were writing, instead of
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: doing any writing of any actual quality. Now these products
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: have been accepted for publication. Well, yes, it's been that
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: way for the last like ten years, though at least,
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: if not longer. Okay, let's keep going.
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 3: I'm bleak about it's the sweet good ones, damn it.
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 3: I would like to believe there is something purposeful, resistant
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 3: even radical, in the hetero fatalist mode. But the more
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 3: I voice it, the more I am inclined to agree
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 3: with Saracen that it can produce nothing but more of itself.
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 3: Heterosexuality is nobody's personal problem, he writes. It doesn't make
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 3: sense to extricate your own straight experience from straightness as
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 3: an institution. It isn't that my friend needs to find
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 3: some other way to live. It's that we all do.
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: Straightness as an institution, so she's a victim.
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 2: Of being straight.
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: I don't know, no straightness is a system that oppresses
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: women like her. That's why she's a failure at dating.
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 1: That's why she can't keep a man because straightness is
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: keeping her down. Like this is what losers do. They
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: look at their situation and instead of saying, how can
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: I improve? How can I? Like? You know, what is
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: it that I have to learn about myself that will
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: help me navigate the world so that I can again
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: that will require introspection and again I know it can
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: be painful. And the longer you invest in these bad
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: ideas of this bad way of living, the harder it
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 1: is to undo because you've been living this way for
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: so long and you could do that, but it's worth it.
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 1: It's gonna be it's gonna suck, but it's worth it.
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: Or or you can just construct this idea that there's
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 1: this there's this thing, this system, and the system is
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: what's hurting you. It's an abstract thing. It's society. When
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: we should go to society's house and arrest society and
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 1: throw society in jail because it's keeping me from finding
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: a good man. That's what she's This is what this is.
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 1: And there are people who are paid a lot of
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: money to write books about this. They have like pieces
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: of paper on their wall and they write books about
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 1: these systems of abstractions that control people and keep them
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: from achieving happiness. And fortunately, the best that part about
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: all this is that you don't have to take responsibility.
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: You can just blame the system. She is saying that
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 1: straightness is a system of oppression, not the way that
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: we've just lived as as a species that you know,
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 1: mates with other people and like makes more people. No, no, no, no,
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: that's a system, guys. It's keeping us down.
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 2: Okay, And how what's the solution? Because she's also saying
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 2: she's also set up this victimhood that she is a
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 2: victim of her straightness, that she can't change it. So
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 2: what's the solution? Government mandated draft of marriageable men, I guess.
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 2: And they there, these men shouldn't be able to say
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 2: no to her, Like all of this, all of this
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 2: bullshit is inspired by men saying no to her. That's it,
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 2: and her friends, that's it. So the problem with straightness
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 2: is that men can stay no. Do you see the logic, Brian?
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 2: The problem with the hetero, this hetero negativity or whatever,
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 2: is because straight men have an opinion about who they
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 2: get to have sex with that, and that that's part
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 2: of a system of oppressing her. This is sick. This
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 2: is flipping sick.
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: Here's my prediction. I'm gonna get prediction because I haven't
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: finished this article. My prediction is she doesn't propose a
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 1: solution at all, because like all feminist articles or these
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: op eds, it's not about solving any problems. It's just
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 1: about the act of complaining, and the purpose of that
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: is to essentially make It's like we got to have
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: a conversation about having a conversation, and it's just meant
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 1: to demoralize whoever reads it, because you are supposed to
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 1: think nothing can be done. That's what I think.
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 3: But instead of looking for it, we disaffected women perform
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 3: for one another, this mutually enabling kind of maintenance, periodically
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 3: off gassing some of the shame and frustration of dating men,
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 3: and then chugging along with whatever Saracen's vision is. Most
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 3: of us can neither renounce our heterosexuality nor realize a
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 3: significant renegotiation of its terms. What we can do, at
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 3: least for.
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 2: The significant renovaltiation of its terms, is the obligation to
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 2: actually get your partners consent, even if he's a man.
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 2: That's what this is all about. Fundamentally, they are in
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 2: a death battle with the fact that men aren't consenting
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 2: to them.
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: Well, they want men to pursue them, but they want
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: men to pursue them on their terms, which they don't
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 1: want to have to tell men what those things are.
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: They want men to say.
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 2: They are in a death battle with the idea that
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 2: men are their own entity that makes choices that they
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 2: do not approve of. And the biggest demonstration of men
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 2: being an entity that makes choices that they don't approve
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 2: of is men rejecting them. That is like it they
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 2: they these individuals cannot conceive of men as people, as
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 2: having thoughts and minds, and this hetero negativity is the
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 2: recognition that men can say no, because I think that's
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 2: the biggest thing, because they identify with rejecting men. So
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 2: if a man rejects them, it's like an existential being
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 2: plunged into existential horror for them. So that is that
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 2: is the that is the pinch point, because think about
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 2: what all of these women have been talking about. I
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 2: was rejected by men. I was rejected by men. I
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 2: was rejected by a man. I was rejected by a man. Oh,
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 2: this is heteronegativity. It's the recognition that men can reject us.
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 1: Yea to renegotiate.
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 2: Well, I can't see how we can renegotiate terms. Yeah. Yeah,
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 2: because maybe there's a little little light of freaking humanity
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 2: in you that recognizes that taking away men's ability to
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 2: reject you is wrong, even though even though you seem
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 2: to want to frame it as some kind of violation
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 2: of you. Oh, men are rejecting me. That's patriarchal oppression.
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 2: That's a violation. This is like the anti me too. Okay,
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 2: I really have to get I'm gonna have to cut
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 2: this off pretty soon.
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 1: So okay, well we'll just listen to a bit more.
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: We could also do a part two on this if
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 1: you wanted to, or I can jump I can jump
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 1: ahead to like the conclusion.
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, let's I don't remember, Oh god, yes, I mean no,
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 2: let's let's let's keep going. Let's do as much as
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 2: we can because I remember this. It was astounding dribble.
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 3: We can try to dodge old fashioned man woman stuff
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 3: by acting hopeless about relationships rather than eager for them.
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 3: Maybe this is the utility of hetero fatalism.
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 2: Wait, she when she says old man woman stuff, what
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 2: she means is women being rejected by men. So women
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 2: seeking something from men and being rejected. But wasn't the
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 2: men's company too, Yeah, wasn't the old man woman's stuff.
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 2: Men pursuing women and and all the me too thing
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 2: was like, don't do that, don't get drunk and grope
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 2: us anymore, don't pursue us anymore. You know, we don't
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 2: like that. Leave us alone. But now that men women
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 2: have to pursue men, it's the old man woman stuff,
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 2: and it's bad. It's almost like you did something to
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 2: the dynamic. You got a new dynamic in which you
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 2: have to put yourself out there more or get nothing.
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 2: And you're not liking it because you're finding that men
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 2: can say no, that you can pursue, which is what
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 2: each of these women has said. I pursued a man.
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 2: I wanted something from a man. He said no, but
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 2: two and got rid of me. Right, So they're doing
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 2: the pursuing. But that you've changed the dynamics, so you
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 2: have to pursue. And now it's some sort of gigantic crisis.
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 2: Do you get do you're picking that up.
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that the terms have to be.
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 2: Changed because now you're finding out that men can reach you,
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 2: and you're calling it old man woman stuff, while I
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 2: thought the old man woman's stuff was men pursuing, and
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 2: he didn't like that, so he got rid of it.
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 2: But I don't know, It's just it's disingenuous. It's self serving.
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 2: Everything that comes out of this woman's mouth is self serving.
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 3: Yep, okay, swallow it and put on a care free smile.
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 3: Nice to meet you, good guy. I am woman who
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 3: expects nothing. I was doubled over, laughing, briefly tasting the
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 3: knee of my jeans while the man next to me
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 3: on the sectional couch strummed a guitar and did a
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 3: spot on imitation of Bruce Springsteen. He had that lifting
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 3: something heavy, moan down cold, and he was improvising a
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 3: song about work, American work in the American heartland, hyperbolically
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 3: tough and tragic mail work. Because I was losing it,
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 3: he kept going and I kept losing it, and at
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 3: a certain point I wasn't sure if I was overpowered
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 3: by amusement or just overpowered by him. On the way
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 3: to his place, I had been texting with my aunt.
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 3: Word from an expert, she wrote, wait till he wants
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 3: it so bad. He's nutsy kook who sounds facile, but
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 3: man Truer words were never spoken. Make him suffer is
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 3: my mantra.
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 1: So basically, make him like want it, but like make
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: him wait. Keep him you know, I guess he's gonna
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: leave her, but anyway, let's keep going.
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 3: I kept catching myself staring at his mouth.
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 2: His boss is really working for you, though.
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 3: Slow down. He needed time to get a better sense
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 3: of how I worked.
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 2: To murmur.
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 3: Let him try stuff, and he warms to his own control,
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 3: putting his mouth right up to mine, then pulling away
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 3: when I tried to engage his tongue. I see what
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 3: you are, he said, finally, pinning my forearms. You're a
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 3: braddy sub. He held himself there, just out of reach,
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 3: breathing on me. I like to make you wait, he said.
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 3: He did make me wait. I stood at the slot machine,
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 3: watching those cherries and fat yellow coins blur by, and
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 3: they didn't stop. He was sweet with me in person,
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 3: impulsive about biting my nose, but for stretches I wouldn't
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 3: hear from heavy. I would but only perfunctorily. And then
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 3: suddenly he would pop up requesting clarification on what a
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 3: man feels or wants or sees happening. Here has gotten
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 3: me burned before, as it has many women I know.
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 3: I have learned to regard such demands as demanding in
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 3: a feminized way simultaneous. This is entirely a reinscribing of
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 3: the bratty sense. This is entirely your construction, ladies. Yeah,
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 3: this is entirely your construction. You asked for more and
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 3: more power over men because you were scared of them
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 3: or whatever reason. And now the honest to God truth
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 3: is that men know that once they become available to you,
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 3: they are screwed. Once they settle down, they are screwed.
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 3: This this is what you have incentivized. This kind of
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 3: pop goes the weasel behavior that men won't be pinned down.
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 3: You've incentivized situationships. And part of it is because women
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 3: take an identity from rejecting men. So as soon as
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 3: he commits, he puts himself in a position to be rejected,
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 3: which you know, it's like it's like putting a gigantic
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 3: roast rare mass of red meat in front of a tiger.
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 3: So as soon as a man commits to a woman,
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 3: it's like he's thrown a he's thrown a bleeding meat
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 3: into a tiger cage. It's only a matter of time
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 3: before she gets that itch to reject, which is what
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 3: you did to your husband. Like, the one man in
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 3: all of this that committed to her.
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 2: She left. Do you notice that she rejected the one
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 2: man who made a solid commitment to her she walked
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 2: away from. And then all of these other men who
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 2: are just dangling the carrot being like, oh well, pop
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 2: goes the waisel. Maybe you'll see me, maybe you won't.
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 2: All of these other men she is trying to pursue.
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 2: But you know, women think that men are stupider than
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 2: they are, then then they think men are stupid. Men
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 2: are not stupid. At least a lot of men aren't stupid.
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 2: They know you, they know who you are. They know
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 2: that once you they commit to you, you are going
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 2: to the clock is going to start ticking down on
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 2: that irresistible desire to reject, and eventually you're gonna do it.
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 2: So they play these these these peek a boo games
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 2: with you because they know they can't commit to you,
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 2: and lots of women are like this now, are giving
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 2: this impression to men, and men know they can't commit
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 2: to them because the the clock is ticking down for
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 2: when she is going to start the process of rejecting. Right,
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 2: And you don't even have to have a divorce in
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 2: order to reject a man. You know, it could be
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 2: dead bedroom, you know, it could be constant nagging, taking
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 2: away his autonomy, that kind of thing, those forms of rejection, right, Okay,
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 2: I just wanted to get that out because no, it's.
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 1: All right, she this Okay, let me, I got a
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 1: super child. I'm or read it. Zarius gave us five
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 1: and says, regarding the fact that the woman's husband intended
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 1: to commit to her for life, the oaths of a
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 1: woman I inscribe on water Sophocles four ninety six pc
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 1: four six pc. That such a quote predates Jesus is amazing.
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 1: That and the fact that I'm often able to reference
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 1: as good as it gets quote I think of a
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 1: man I take away reason and accountability is incredibly disheartening.
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 1: I've referenced Aaron Clary's book and the conclusion he made
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 1: in it about the number of good women available before
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 1: the good women are apparently outliers, and the fact that
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 1: the already of men will attempt to rise to the
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 1: occasion to meet those outlier women for a chance to
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 1: create families suggests to me that humanity's existence is a
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 1: miracle rather than a given. This sounds like it's a
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 1: black pill observation, but I consider it a white pill.
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 1: Thank you for the superchow. We close that out. And
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 1: uh yeah. So the reason why I think this article
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 1: is so long is because this woman is kind of
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 1: like she's going to tell us a bunch of different
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 1: anecdotes of like the men that she's been with, and
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 1: it gets a little bit like, I don't know, pornographic,
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 1: I guess, or she comes close to it. It gets
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 1: really like steamy, And I think that's kind of a
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 1: flex on other women that might read it, like, look
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 1: at how all these men I could have had but
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 1: I didn't. But guess what, it's not my fault because heteropessimism,
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 1: But I could have had them. So this is more,
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 1: I think, more female intersexual competition. It's just a really
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 1: pathetic version in my opinion.
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 3: Anyway, I stayed mostly quiet. Call it communication pessimism. On
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 3: the bed the female demand. Male withdraw pattern pulses with
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 3: sensuality in life. It sometimes feels like it will drive
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 3: me out of my senses. When my friend complained about
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 3: the lawyer, I expressed you.
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 2: But wait, a second worked my way, So now it's reversed.
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 2: She just reversed her position. Okay, it's yeah, I think
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 2: this guy's got her number. She is a bratty. Well,
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 2: actually he's's being very fair to her. Braddy sub No,
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 2: she's a psycho. She's a psycho. A psycho hoosebast Yeah
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 2: for sure. No, that's okay, right, but she's she.
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 1: Stopped talking about that guy apparently, so who knows what
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 1: happened there. He probably just stopped.
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 3: Calling her quite naturally and along a well Warren groove
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 3: to a condemnation of all. Okay, most men is incapable
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 3: of upholding basic standards of communication and care. I was thinking,
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 3: of course, about Jay, and I am not proud that
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 3: my instinctive response to the shame of being gender stereotyped
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 3: by life is to pay another stereotype forward. Men suck
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 3: groundbreaking that said, men struggle to communicate.
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 2: It old you he didn't want a relationship with you.
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 2: He was clear and every single step, and you are
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 2: making him out to be the bad guy. Yeah, like, okay,
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 2: all right, I should keep my mouth.
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 3: Chut, right, who have earned a psychological designation normative male alexithymia,
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 3: or the condition of being unable to put words to emotions.
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 3: This incapacity, Ellie Anderson argues, often forces women who date
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 3: men to become relationship maintenance experts, solidifying what she cites
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 3: as the most common communication pattern among heterosexual dating couples,
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 3: the female demand male withdraw pattern. Woman approaches man to
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 3: discuss something, man removes himself on the bed. The female
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 3: demand male with draw pattern pulses with sensuality in life.
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 3: It sometimes feels like it will drive me out of
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 3: my senses, and it creates work, tough, tragic female work.
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 3: In the nineteen eighties, the sociologist Arley Russell Houkschild coined
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 3: the term.
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 2: Let me tell you something that that lawyer example, she
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 2: wasn't doing any fucking work. She was demanding he do work,
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 2: doing work in that circumstance, doing emotional labor. In that circumstances.
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 2: You are your little your little girl self. You're sitting
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 2: and you're like, oh, he hasn't texted me, and you
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 2: take your little girl self and you use your little
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 2: girl brain and you imagine, oh, he must be busy.
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 2: It's not something he's doing intentionally. He's just busy. He's
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 2: a high powered lawyer with lots of clients. And he
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 2: pays attention to me when he gives, when he sets
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 2: time aside, he makes me the center of his attention. Therefore,
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 2: I should just put my phone down and go do
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 2: something else. That is emotional strength, That is emotional awareness.
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 2: That is emotional regulation. Not oh my god, he's not
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 2: texting me. Oh, what's the horrible things that they're happy?
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 1: Oh?
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 2: She she, he's having an affair. No, that is emotional dysregulation.
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 2: It is not emotional And you are not doing any
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 2: kind of emotional labor for him. You are doing the reverse.
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 2: You are forcing him to do emotional labor. Texting. Demanding
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 2: that a man texts you is not emotional labor you're
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 2: doing for him. That is a demand that he do
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 2: emotional labor for you. What the hell is wrong with
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 2: these women. It's like their brains don't work, are on backwards,
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 2: upside down and inside out.
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 1: Yep, all right, let's put some.
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 3: More emotional labor. To describe paid work that involves trying
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 3: to feel the right feeling for the job that is
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 3: service work, healthcare education. It must be an indication of
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 3: our need for more ways to talk about the invisible
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 3: affective labor that often falls to women. That the term
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 3: has suffered from concept creep stretching far past that original
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 3: meaning to crop up in everyday conversations about unequal divisions
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 3: of labor in our love lives. Anderson gives us a
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 3: new term related to, but distinct from, emotional labor, and
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 3: more useful in parsing what we might call the micropolitics
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 3: of dating. She calls the work women do.
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 1: God micropolitics of dating. Holy shit. Hmm, yeah, dating should
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 1: not be political. Micropolitics sounds like micromanagement. This is insane watching.
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 2: We're watching women consume the very concept of human reproduction,
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 2: but they're just consuming it and fucking shitting it out
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 2: in an unrecognizable and completely useless form.
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 3: The good Lord mystifying male cues hermeneutic labor.
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 2: Someone needs to write a book about this.
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 3: And intimate religious what.
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 2: Someone needs to write a book like a like a
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 2: you know, a book, the book. We'll call it the
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 2: book and it should have in it all of the
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 2: descript of this shitty female behavior and how destructive it is.
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 2: And we should make sure that generations upon generations learn
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 2: from the book about how shitty female behavior is when
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 2: it has no standards?
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 1: Can we put? Can we as long as we put
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 1: the word codex in the title. I just want to
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 1: use the word codex.
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 2: That's fine.
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 1: If anybody has any suggestion.
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 2: Okay, relationships.
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 3: The guy dating my friend may have been too busy
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 3: lawyering to confirm his plans with her. But meanwhile, Anderson
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 3: might say, my friend was working two jobs, one to
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 3: earn her living, the other as sole manager of an
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 3: emotional entanglement that was also his hetero fatalism. Is partly
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 3: just burnout.
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 2: No, it wasn't his. It wasn't his texting him to
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 2: demand that she do the emotional labor that he doesn't
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 2: have time for. Is not his emotional entanglement. And quite honestly,
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 2: this whatever this ball of fuck these women represented, And
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 2: the thing is like, these women are like a what
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 2: is that call to get kata the ball that that
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 2: gathers up more things? Yes, this is the Katamari ball
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 2: of female fuck mm because it just gets bigger and
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 2: bigger and bigger. These women grab more women in and
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 2: they were just like this fucking high pitched, squirrely chatter.
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, these are Oh he's not texting.
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 1: Oh he spent?
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 2: Oh he did he did? He fail to TikTok charge
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 2: More and more of it gets sucked in, more of
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 2: our society gets sucked into the Katamari ball of female fuck.
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 3: Stranger waiting at my usual back corner table looked a
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 3: bit squarer than my average date. His hair appeared recently
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 3: washed and cut, and he wore a button down shirt,
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 3: but some restless mischief played in his face, bearing itself
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 3: fully in his laugh. Our conversation was brisk and jesting.
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 2: I try the writer then.
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 3: Criterion for him. He was partnered already, he had told me,
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 3: and seeking only companion at sex. His dating profile referenced
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 3: this clearly below a picture of him wearing a blue
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 3: blazer and petting a donkey's head.
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 1: So she's he walking around with dudes that are already
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 1: involved with other people. And I think that she's a
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 1: loser because she thinks they're going to leave their partners
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 1: for her, and they say up front what they expect
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 1: and she goes along with it anyway, and then doesn't
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 1: get Then she gets catches feelings, and uh, maybe you're
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 1: not Maybe you're just not cut out for this. Maybe
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 1: that's just not good for you.
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 2: Maybe you should just like, no, no, no, this this
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 2: is not feelings. This is just egotistical, narcissistic control vibes.
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah too.
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 2: But yeah, well yeah, they're they're psycho feelings of a reptile.
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 2: But I don't I don't think these are mammalian feelings
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 2: that she's finding. Yeah, I honestly think that she. Uh,
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 2: I don't. She might be a home wrecker, maybe because
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 2: it does seem to be like she's uniquely attracted to
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 2: men who are attached or men who say upfront were
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 2: not having a relationship. So it's almost like she she's
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 2: like a woman who wants to turn the gaze straight,
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 2: except she wants to turn these guys into husband material.
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 2: But she's not gonna do that. Oh man, Okay, all right.
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 3: He turned eventually to the subject of erotic temperament. He
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 3: was interested in the possibilities that arise between people when
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 3: any eventuality of marriage, procreation, or fidelity was, so to speak,
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 3: taken off the bed. What might then happen in that bed,
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 3: in that community, in that world, watching his clean cut,
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 3: boyish form and listening to him speak with the eloquent
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 3: enthusiasm of a connoisseur, The phrase that occurred to me
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 3: was sex nerd. Many dabblers in non monogamy were not, really,
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 3: he noted with a laugh, quoting the rapper pusha t
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 3: about dot life. He was, I meet this type around
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 3: sometimes fluent in the language of polyamory, waving his respectful
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 3: desire around like a plastic lightsaber, a pew pew. Why
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 3: would you play with just one toy when you can
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 3: take turns with all the toys while at the same
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 3: time you are.
• 1:39:26
  Speaker 2: Polyamorous or some shit right, and you have contempt for
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 2: the men in the in the land in don't be
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 2: this like, lady, if you're gonna be polyamorous, don't have
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 2: contempt for the people, for the men who take part
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 2: in your lifestyle, because it sounds more like you want
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 2: to be able to do whatever the hell you want
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 2: and control your male partners at the same time. Mm hmm, Okay, how.
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 1: Much time do we have before you need to go?
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 2: Uh? I probably should get going in about three minutes.
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 1: Okay, do you want do you want to listen to
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 1: more of this or do you mean to jump to
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 1: the end of this? Try to find the last because
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 1: like she just goes into like basically there's more anecdotes.
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, maybe we could just pick this up again.
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 2: Maybe we could do it, finish it up before the
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 2: Beat Saber on the Sunday or something. Sure, I think
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 2: we can get through it faster because the Okay, yeah, sorry, guys,
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 2: I gotta go because my husband has a dental appointment
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 2: and I should have probably gone half an hour ago,
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 2: so I need to get ready. H if he hasn't
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 2: taken off already, which he might have done, So we'll
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 2: try to pick this up again.
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 1: Well, do you think without you, like, if I was being.
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 2: Too much of an asshole and I was making it
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 2: so it was difficult for him to get to his appointment. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 2: but he probably would come and say hey, are you
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 2: are you gonna.
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 1: Are Yeah, I'm going to finish up. Then finish up
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 1: all right.
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 2: So we'll finish this up. We'll try for Sunday. We
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 2: are gonna be doing a beat Saver, so look forward
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 2: to that. I'm gonna ask Brian to set it up
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 2: a day early so I can send it out to
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 2: the ones who really like that, and maybe we could
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 2: send it out early to to the general subscribers. But anyway,
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 2: look forward to that. We'll try to get this done.
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 2: We'll go through her entire drivel. I don't know what
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 2: else to call it like this, this absolute lack of
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 2: any kind of self awareness. She's trying to be sex
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 2: in the City with no self awareness. But what was
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 2: good about sex and the City was the self awareness,
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 2: if there was anything good at about it at all.
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 2: So anyway, feed the Badger dot com slash just the tip.
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 2: If you want to comment on anything, we will be
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 2: talking about it when we pick this up and finish
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 2: it off, so definitely get those comments out there. Feed
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 2: the Badger dot com slash just the tip, And if
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 2: you want to support the show, feed the badgert upm
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 2: slash support. We are doing a meet up Calgary, Alberta, Canada,
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 2: September thirteenth of this year. If you're interested in information
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 2: of that, Feed the Badgery dot com slash events and
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 2: be sure to take a look if you're interested or
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 2: if you're going to go at all, because I won't
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 2: be necessarily making the venue public. You'll have to actually
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 2: email me. Email me, not anybody else. Nobody else is
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 2: going to give it out, all right, So feed the
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 2: Badgery dot com slash events if you're interested in that.
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 2: Everything is in the low bar and I will hand
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 2: it back to Brian to do the things.
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 1: All right. Well, if you guys like this video, please
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 1: hit like subscribe if you're not already subscribed to the
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 1: BELF notifications, leave us a comment, let us know you
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 1: guys think about what we discussed on the show today,
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 1: and please please please share this video because share is caring.
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 1: Thank you guys so much for coming on today's episode
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 1: of Maintaining Frame, which I changed the title up to match,
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 1: and we'll talk to you guys in the next one.