Latest / The Group Chat / Ep. 19 Breaking the Stigma: Compassionate Psychiatry with Dr. Franca

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Ep. 19 Breaking the Stigma: Compassionate Psychiatry with Dr. Franca · The Group Chat

• The Group Chat: I can imagine just like going to Franca's office, you know, and just like chatting shit with her and just like you know, being like Franca, like I need help with this and her telling me like, yeah, well, you know, you gotta go out there and be a ho. Like some third of advice like that. Or she's like, You could take the red pill, you could take the blue pill, or you can take this Hello Kitty mug. Exactly. This show is for entertainment only. We are not professionals and nothing said here counts as real advice. Beyond this point, what you do with the information we discuss is solely your responsibility. Please do your own research before making decisions based on anything mentioned in our chats. What is up everybody? We are the group chat. I'm Carson. I'm Paulina. I'm Frankie. Frankie? you might be. Hey Frankie. You can say Frankie. Doesn't matter. Nice to meet you. Good to have you on. And yeah, so here we are. What are we doing here, guys? I'm just happy to be here. That's what I'm doing. Well, we're happy to have you here. And I'm not saying nice to meet you because I know Franca for many years, so Yeah, true. But how did you all meet? 'Cause I don't know the backstory. Yeah. Jesus Christ. How how PG thirteen do you guys want it? Well, this is rated R generally on our platform, so we have a disclaimer and all the all that jazz, so you don't have to Yeah. So no basically we were both young and dumb. And in a foreign country, which means stupid decisions were made in the form of probably the most embarrassing guy for both of us that we've ever been involved with. And then like basically I tried to warn her. She thought I was like jealous and full of shit. Yeah. And she learned Things the hard way, and then we became friends. Exactly. Yeah. And first time I think I met you was I was traveling back from from Germany, funny enough. I was coming back from Germany and I I think I was still with my luggage. Or it was the opposite, or you were going to Germany or something like that. I was think you were going. And I was there hanging out with this guy and a whole bunch of other people and you just appeared there like you were there as well and we had like a bit of like exchange but we didn't really like w we weren't really friends and then you realized that was actually seeing that guy. Uh-huh that it it just became like a whole thing after that. Like, yeah, you tried to warn me. You're trying to be a good girls girl and I ignored the the fucking red flags. I had just gotten done seeing him basically and Yeah. You. I think we've all had something like that going on with friends of, you know, we're sloppy seconds or whatever. Yeah. Make like dumb decisions when you don't really know what's what yet when you're young. Yeah. And yeah. And you just think, it's not gonna happen to me. It happened to her, but it's gonna be different this time. there's no way You know. That's not gonna happen. Probably what's countless episodes of Sex in the City and went, bitch, what the fuck are you doing? And then I did it too. So yeah. Happen. Yeah. Some things you just gotta live on your own. You gotta experience it yourself. Sure. Yeah. So that that's how we met. So I know Franca since I think it was two thousand eighteen. Yeah. Yeah, sometime. That was the winter semester, and then I babysat your cat for a while. Yes. That is true, indeed. And because of Franca. And because of Franca, I met my my current partner. I met Tony. Right. I was probably drunk when you guys met. You were okay, we were bow drunk, first of all, because you told me we're on Tinder. You're like that I should get back into dating again because I came back from Germany and what happened was that I went back on Tinder and I started at her house. I stayed the night at her house and I was like drunk because there was like some sort of party happening and I just started swiping left and right on Tinder and I swiped right on Tony. So Yeah, right. Hey she's your good luck charm. For sure. Yeah. Your guardian angel looking out for you at the the first guy and then being by your side when you found the right guy. Like the fairy godmother, only I can't can't do this and you have a cunty outfit, unfortunately. That would be the trailer thought. I can't the outfit. my goodness. So Franka, why wouldn't you tell us a little bit about yourself? What what's going on with you? Who who are you? Like we go way too Who even are you? Yeah. Sometimes I have no idea who I actually am, but I'm trying to I will I will try to describe it. So I am twenty-eight years old and I met Paulina when I was studying medicine in Biawystok, Poland. I think back then I was 20. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. and I am just about to start residency in psychiatry, which is the whole fucking reason I went to Poland to study medicine anyway. Because I just kinda like fell in love with the department of psychiatry and decided that's what I need to pursue and If that means going to Poland, then so be it. You make it sound like Poland is like a w your worst neighbor. Like if that means I have to go to Poland. No, no, I love Poland, but you know, as a German citizen, you kinda have your cliches in your head that are still like pretty post-Soviet era and pretty antiquated and You kinda think Poland is a third world country from all of the Polish people jokes and whatnot, and then you find out that it's actually really beautiful and that the people are lovely and that the food is really good. And then you kind of fall in love with the whole thing. And so why Poland? I mean, couldn't you study medicine elsewhere? Couldn't study medicine in Germany. But I was brought you to Poland. I was really, really lazy in high school. 'Cause I kinda only figured out what I really wanted to do after graduation. And whenever I don't really have like an immediate goal I want to achieve, I kinda start bumbling around a little bit. especially back then. And the well, how how would you say like the the average of grades that you need in order to get into med school in Germany is quite high. And I know that I'm fairly smart, but I'm not really disciplined at all. And I knew that I kinda wouldn't be able to reach that first try. Mm then I really kinda gave up and did nothing. And graduated fairly well, but not well enough to, you know, go to medical school in Germany and then I kinda picked out the cheapest country for my parents to like to foot the tuition bill, you know, and yeah. Sure, sure, sure. That's considerable. Yeah. I'm German, we're stingy like that. Very practical. You gotta think. Okay, bottom line is if I want them to say yes and help me, I gotta do this right. Yeah. Basically. Well I could I could fully relate. I too wasn't very disciplined when I was in high school and I had a I had a decent grade point average. I graduated with a decent one, I think it was like a three point three, but nothing to get me out of state. So it was the o actually the opposite result for me is that I had to stay in state and go to a state school. I couldn't go to one of the you know, the more advanced schools and yeah. Again, it was scholarships like what scholarships can I get with this grade point average? So I feel you. Yeah it's I have actually no idea how the American education system works. Even though I watched so many high school movies and so many like college movies, but yeah, no idea. For me it's just like I know that there's jocks and cheerleaders and nerds. And that's it. You have the goths, you have yeah, the the misfits. I mean there's lots of clicks, it's true. Yeah. I'm happy to say I was friends with everybody. I wasn't just I was a jock, yes. On paper I was a jock. I played basketball the whole time. I was in well, since middle school I I was playing for the school team. But you know, outside of school and I hung out I try to hang out with everybody 'cause yeah. I don't know. I was just always fascinated by different people of different interests. I always hung out with people from the other schools. I don't know why my school was kinda like boring. Yeah. Yeah. Gotta do what you gotta do. Yeah. You know? I hung out with a lot of like Eastern Europeans. Well, not just Eastern Europeans, but like our crew was very mixed. We had a lot of Serbians in that crew. We had another Polish girl in the crew. And we also had like a random Australian in the crew as well. But I mean we got along and it was nice and it was fun. cool. But yeah, when thinking about like high school days, I I was quite the opposite. I I was very nerdy. I I like petting. I passed like with amazing results. But I don't know. It's just like for me it's like that was a part of my life and now I'm sort of just like, yes, I n I know a lot of things, you know, I became a teacher, so to say, but in reality, I don't think I don't think grades should necessarily determine your life, you know? Yeah, I agree. I think when you're like eighteen you're way too young to really know yourself and to know your talents and to kinda like force people into one lane when they're so young. I mean don't think that's really good. And in Germany we actually have like a three tier school system. Like we have Depending on what grades you get in elementary, they will like literally sort you into smart, medium, and not so smart. Wow. And I actually think that's a little bit inhumane. Cause obviously your like social situation also plays a role. Like if you can afford a tutor or not, if you speak German as your first language and if you're like challenged in that way whether your parents can help you with homework, like all of those things. So that's I don't know, it's kind of sad. You can when you really try and get good grades in one form of school, you can assent. But it's definitely difficult and yeah, you're kind of like at the mercy of what your teacher thinks of you, I guess. That's I've never heard of anything like that. That's kind of wild. Kind of, yeah. That's kinda awful, but it is what it is, you know. Sh for sure. For sure. just trying to think. I don't think I mean obviously that that doesn't exist in the US where they're so open about this is what we're doing. We're classifying you as stupid, medium, or smart. Like it's kinda kinda ballsy. but no, I wanna say Well, we definitely have different tracks that you can take while in high school. You can choose to take AP courses, which are the advanced. I forgot what the a the acronym stands for. Advanced partnering. Perhaps. I think so. I don't know. I didn't take it It looks good. Right? It looks good if you are applying when you're applying to college, you have a high GPA and they look at your transcript, they saw that you took A P classes and you have a good score on the SAT or the A C T, which is the standardized like college entrance exam. and so definitely there is a way to make yourself more competitive to get higher you know, better scholarships at better schools, but it's not just from when you said when you're when they're in you're in elementary school, they start classifying you. After you get done with fourth grade, basically, yeah. Wow. That's like yeah. That's pretty harsh. Carson, I wanna circle back to that idea because in New York, actually, funny enough, in my middle school, it wasn't very obvious that they did that, but it was. they did something similar where I don't I don't remember if we had to take some sort of exam before we entered the school. Like it was right before sixth grade or something like that. and They had four different lines. So like four groups. And I remember there was like six one, six two, three and four. And generally like six one was the class that had like different teachers. Mm-hmm. Like their own like special teachers. because they were get they they got taught on a slightly higher level. Technically, you know, it's It shouldn't have been like that, you know, it should have been a little bit different. But in reality, it wasn't so noticeable until the the kids from six one would be like, Well, I'm in the smart class. my god. But kids will be kids. But in reality then, like you actually would look at the grades of the different groups and yeah, there was a difference. Like I wasn't in six two the first year, but The second year they wanted to put me in the one class. And I said, I don't want to be with the fucking nerds. they had a whole conversation. I didn't say it exactly that way. I wish I I did, but you know, but they they had a conversation with me, and you know, they were trying to tell my mom, like, hey, we can put her in the in the better class with you know, the assignments and whatever, like with different assignments, it's a little bit more creative, a little bit more intellectual. And I was like, already have enough homework as I do, you know? And I'm like, I don't want to do extra work. Like, it wasn't just me being lazy, but I also had friends in my class. I already made friends. I felt comfortable. And I was like, I'm not gonna change my group just because to to be in a smart class. Yeah. You know? but yeah, you would look at the results from different groups and like the test grades, and you would see that like in the three or four class. a lot of the kids would constantly fail their exams. They had the same teachers are as the kids in O two, but they would fail their exams. very often their like socioeconomic situation was the wasn't the best. Like they had troubles at home. So it's crappy that they separated those kids because those kids could have definitely thrived in a different class in a so to say higher level class. because they would be given the resources. But you know, I don't run the school, so I thought like sorry, you go first. No, no no no, please. Okay, thank you. I thought like the different levels would maybe be so you can give more more special attention to the kids that need a little bit of help. and not to like just separate them out. That seems kind of fucked up to me. Like I mean, what's the point then anyway? I think the point is even with the system in Germany and the same in the US is pro the the intentions are probably good, right? The intentions they would tr probably defend it by saying this, like you just said, gives the the students who need more resources more time and attention and You know, also they can assimilate better in a classroom where kids are more like-minded and that they're not feeling this overwhelming sense of competition with kids who are much smarter than them. Right. You can frame it any way if you're convincing enough with your argument. And so maybe maybe there's I mean, there's definitely good to this system of competition. We need to challenge students to accept challenges and to understand that. That's how you improve. And so it is like kind of a building block for the future. The the whole sense of like, you know, maybe they are smarter than me, but if I work hard enough, maybe I can maybe I can level up, maybe I can ascend. I don't know. So there's like are you always fucked? Or is it really hard for you? But there's a chance for you. I guess that's really where you need to know Yeah. I'm guessing we just don't have nearly enough teachers to give every child the care that they need. Yeah. Seems seems like it. Like in elementary, I actually kinda hated that when you were like one of the more well-behaved kids that got better grades than others, they would like kind of sit the problem child next to you and make it like your task to like help them and manage them. And looking back at Pokemon Fucked up because I don't get money for this job. Like I'm not getting paid for this. I'm not getting paid. You were the teacher. What what the hell? Maybe I should build them the It's all wastroll thinking. Build them to what? Maybe I should like bill them in hindsight. Remember that time you sat me next to so and so? Yeah, I wasn't getting paid for that and I need on like the twentieth of March two thousand and six, you sat me next to Timmy and help asked me to help him with mathematics for thirty minutes. That's like ten euros fifty. man. Well. But all of this aside, you still chose medicine, like right? Yeah. And that that that can be easy to study. I mean, I saw how you were how you were when you have to study and I would call you and be like, hey, we're going out. I would be like, You know, I have exams to study for tomorrow. I have to study for this and this. And then after you actually pass the exams, you're like out there, you know? Yeah. Yeah. It was play hard. Yeah. my god. Yeah. No, I was losing so much hair in the first semester. I think I lost like ten kilograms or something. Like I was out there. And also it was a really harsh winter, so there was like snow up to my knee. And they gave us like classes in the evening or afternoon also. So I was like running back and forth between lectures and classes and then went to the afternoon classes classes when it was already really dark. And like I was like walking through knee high snow and I was like walking at least twenty K steps a day. 'Cause I was also too shy to take the bus to the gym. So I was like being stubborn about it and just walking and I don't know how I was how I survived that, like that sounds grueling in hindsight. With lots of hot beers, that's how we survived it. Yeah. Remember those good hot beers? They went straight to your bloodstream. yeah. Also the poly tolerance, like how the hell did I manage to drink that much? Maybe I'm just getting old, but give me one drink and I'm done for the night. For real. Like now the hangovers last for like a full evening, you know, full afternoon like fuck, like Yeah. After thirty, yeah. I mean Paulina, welcome. Yeah. But I've I've definitely slowed down. When I first moved to Spain, I was Yeah, we were going hard. But nowadays it's yeah, it's like in one sitting, two, if it's a special occasion, three drinks, okay, that's manageable, but you know, beyond three or four drinks and one in one sitting or in one night or whatever, the next day, you definitely notice that. Maybe you're not maybe you don't have a headache. What? After after three or four drinks, you're just on the on the dance floor with everybody. So Yeah, and plus, like, I don't know, I can't speak for anybody else, but I get to a point where there's no more drunkerness. Like I can't get drunker. I just get to this point where it's like there's no point of continuing. The only point of continuing is the socializing aspect. So you get caught up in the moment. It's something you learn when you get older, you're just like, I'm just getting caught up in the moment after moment after moment after moment when I'm out with my friends having a good time. And therefore I drank five more drinks because I was like, this is another moment I have to take advantage of. But you're not getting more drunk. You're just screwing yourself tomorrow. I will just fall asleep when I've had too much drink, like out like a light. I will sleep at the club. I don't care. Just put your head down on the fucking table and just be like, take a little nap nap, you know? Because I will sleep on a friend. Yeah. And then they can't get up because I'm there. Yeah. So tell me a little bit about so you said the drinking culture in Poland, but also like what was good or maybe bad about your time living in Poland? How how long were you living in Poland for? Well, technically six years, but I was at home a lot during the pandemic. So I would say it was maybe five years. If you add up the time. Well. I have to say it was kind of a culture shock compared to Germany. 'Cause you know, we're like very egalitarian and very like practical and people do stuff like sometimes they wear functional hiking clothing in the middle of the day when they're just out and about. And personally In Poland. In Germany. in Germany, okay. In and Personally, I think that's disgusting. Always thought that was disgusting. But like especially the women in in Poland would never ever do that. No. They're always pretty glam. I personally love that. I think it's a way of celebrating life. Girl, you're always glammed up. I mean, even today with your little thing that you're wearing, the little dress hoodie type of thing. But come on, you have lipstick on, you have your nails done, you have your glasses, makeup like always glammed up. No, all I wa all I did was go to the gym today and my gym outfit also kinda slays. It's just getting a bit chilly in here, which is why I am in the glamorous sushi hoodie. So yeah. so I love that about Poland and I kinda kept the habit of always dressing up and becoming a little fashionista. So that really brings me a lot of joy. And when you kinda only wear scrubs or gym clothes, you need to go all out when you actually have a day off. For sure. So yeah. That makes sense. And makes sense. I guess the dating culture is also really different. Like I was most in relationships during my studies and always with like guys that I met in the summer in Germany. But I went on a couple of dates with Polish guys. And like one of the nice things is that they're like really gentlemanly and they pay for everything and all of that. But the downside is that they are like really traditional. So When you're just in uni and you're pursuing your studies, you really can't work with someone who wants to get married and have kids right away. That was that actually that was a bit off putting back then. So I don't know. But maybe if you're a girl and you want to get married, go to Poland. You will find someone there. For sure. Yeah. That's sort of a similar opinion that I have. I mean, I've dated I went on like a couple of dates with some Polish guys and similar idea. Like they wanna wife you up like after one or two dates and you're like, bro, like slow down. Like Yeah. Like I appreciate the gesture that you're that interested in me. Like that's flattering, but I feel like you would do that also to any other woman, you know? Yeah, and I hate that. Like I want to be liked for who I am as a person and not for the social role that I can fulfill. And I don't know, I feel like this moving the relationship forward so fast kinda gave me avoidant attachment style. Like I was like running and ghosting and looking back, that's really not not very nice of me. We're young and stupid. Yeah. All right. Some kind of hyper compensation when you're yeah, when you just really don't agree with something or you you're off you said it was off putting, like you use that term and maybe You know, they they can't help it. The guys just grow up in their culture and their and their environment and this is normal for them. definitely. But right. Like like you said, so many women are nowadays like I don't need a man to make me feel complete. I don't need a man to take care of me. And so maybe but yeah, just what you were experiencing was this sh this shift in mentality of women, right? And that's normal. Yeah. I mean Germany's a very like getting married late and there's like a joke about Germans always being single out there. So it's kind of like a the cultural thing to like postpone those things. And the two Polish girls from my English division class already are married and have kids and the rest of us doesn't, so I think that's kind of telling. and like I think we do need men, but The life circumstances that you have as a woman are different. Like you can really make the choice to have someone, but you don't need to commit pr by default to like, you know, have a roof over your head or something. Right. For sure. Don't need to settle while you're still in college. Like having fun and trying to not let all your hair fall out while walking knee through knee deep snow. stressing about getting to class and all this right? Yeah. I think that I wouldn't even have had the emotional availability with all that stress to like really focus on the part the way they deserve. So yeah. For sure. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. I mean that actually made dating long distance easier for me, which was the thing that I did most of the time. like The first one and a half years with my boyfriend, I was just long distance with him. And thankfully both of us are people who can like keep themselves busy. so that worked, but I think if we actually had day to day life together, we might have fought a lot because I was so stressed. Yeah. No, that makes sense. I mean, we we know something a little bit about you know, long distance relationships as well. And I feel like when I was in university, because I did my masters in in Poland and in the South of Poland, and I can't really imagine having Tony there living there with me full time. As nice, you know, maybe as nice and ideal it would be, but you really sit down and think about it and you're like, Yeah, but I was so stress then the pandemic hit. Like there was a also a lot of like scare and stress with the pandemic. and just I don't know how I would navigate through with having him being there on top of all the other things, like working part-time, studying full time. And maybe it would be easier, but maybe it would be more difficult. I don't know. But definitely would have been a different type of stress. So No, I get what you're saying. I hear ya. I also get so lazy when my partner's around, like I think just staying half an hour more and cuddling turns into like, I don't know, five more hours and then I don't know, you watch a movie and then you order pizza and then yeah. I don't know. When you're just alone and laser focused on studying, you get a lot more shit done. Yeah. Yeah. You you talked about the the similarity sorry, the differences between Poland and Germany. what about the similarities? Are there any similarities that you found? Mm. Liking beer. Okay. Fair. Yeah. Deer culture, drinking culture. Yeah, that kind of thing. The party culture is really quite similar. Then there's a few foods that are really like crossover dishes. Like they basically have their version of schnitzel. They also have a lot of foods that contain mayo, so that's kind of similar with us. And in terms of mentality, I think both are really like hardworking and diligent people. So that kinda fit really well with with the professors and most of the German students because the cooperation was quite seamless. Similar with the Norwegians. The Spanish, on the other hand, they were a bit more relaxed, let's say. Yeah, disastrous. Yeah. They are friendly suggestions. Yeah. Yes. That sounds about right. It's true. I think with that, I think Polish people are in a way in that s same way similar to to the German that but Polish people have their little attitude if it doesn't work out this way, I'll do it another way, you know? And it's like even if I have to like stop really hard, like I will make it work, you know? So like this type of mindset is definitely definitely there, you know. With German people, I I definitely see German people very as like hardworking and very focused. Mm. Yeah, we kind of I don't know. We're a country of collective autism, I guess. Very like rule based. There's even a book, Am I Autistic or Just German? Like Did you read a Franca? Did you read that? It's on my list. I need to buy it. that's great. Yeah. That's great. Yeah, Polish people even have this word like Kombinowac, you know? It's one of my favorite words. Same, but I have no idea how to translate. Yeah, it's it doesn't really exist in English because I feel like Americans don't do that. thinkering or something? It's like thinkering, but not really. Similar or tinkering? Yeah. Tinkering with the ideas. With ideas or with I don't know, with tools or just I don't know. It's so really complex. Like it would be something like, okay, let's say I don't know, I'm short of 500 euros to pay my rent. Okay. Right? Let's say. And then I'll start like Thinking of different ways, different methods, you know, of like, okay, let me go message this person. But at the same time as I'm messaging this person and waiting for the answer, I'll I don't know, send an email to get a job just for the weekend to see what I can do. And if I don't get that job, then I'll do something else, like trying in different ways to find a solution. But in English, that That word doesn't really exist. There's not one word for it, I don't think. Yeah. There is a one once the closest the one that's coming to me is multitasking, but that doesn't cover what you're talking about. Improvising. Yeah. Sort of. Like you you improvise, yeah. But I think like Kambinovac is a skill you either have or you don't. Yeah. I like to think I do have it. Maybe it's from my time in Poland, but like you get very like adaptable, very like improvise adapt overcome type thing. Yeah. Maybe the meme actually explains it best. Huh. You'll have to share. Yeah. Don't you guys know this improvise adapt overcome meme with the guy in like tactical clothes or something? No. I feel so old. Or maybe no, maybe you you guys are the old ones that you don't know that. Maybe you're the old one. I love the double fingers. Maybe you guys are the old ones. Wait a second, it's not me, it's you guys. Yeah, man. So go ahead. Fire away. Combined. sounds like what you were saying Sounds like just extreme resource like resourcefulness. Yeah. Yeah. Adaptability, improvising, not taking no for an answer, like putting you know, planting seeds everywhere and seeing which one grows the fastest, or maybe yeah. Let's put it this way, if you would translate that into into like movies, that would be like Tony Soprano type of thing. That like you'll find your own fucking way of doing something. That's what it would be. In my opinion. Okay. Yeah. Just Tony Soprano it. Yeah, exactly. We have to we have to put a what ch what you may call that trademark on that. But let's Tony Soprano it. Yeah, anyway, one of the most beautiful aspects of the Polish spirit, I think. Is that? Yeah, that definitely. Or like general survival skills, I would say, 'cause the polls have been through shit. Like so many occupations and I'm laughing for tears, but yes. Yeah. That shit was traumatizing, like reading Polish history on Wikipedia. Cause I I read the entire Poland article on Wikipedia because I thought I was gonna get a quiz about Poland for my interview to get into university. I love that. You see the level of German autism in this? Yeah. In nineteen thirty-eight. They're gonna give you like a full on citizenship at the moment you come in, you know. It's like all right, hear out you know, the questions, fill out this form. Let's see if she's German or autistic. Congratulations, you're German. Yeah, I also felt really bad as a German coming to Poland because I thought they were gonna be like, you know what you did. No. And yeah, my god. No. You will never be accepted here. I mean my my grandparents were probably fucking turning in their graves after, you know, the shit that happened with that guy. They were probably like My my grandpa from Wrocław, the German minority grandpa there, he would have been turning in his grave that I went to Poland at all. Because he wanted the western part back pretty much until his death, and I was like, Grandpa, calm down, we lost it it happened less Yeah. my god. Wow. Wow. And we hold on to things. Yeah. It's true, right? But did you actually feel that from Polish people when you were actually there? Like was there some sort of weird feeling about it or Only animosity from like older drunk guys at Pop Fiction. Interesting. Okay. But then probably very nationalistic guys. Sorry, like, but like Typical probably little skinheads, as we call them in Poland. Yeah, you know the type or like, yeah. Would they have known that you were German? yeah. When when I went out with my other German friends, and of course we don't speak English in public, but we speak German, so it kinda was a little bit obvious, you know, sometimes. You said of course we don't speak English in public. Wha why not? I guess. Well, if if there's people from other in other groups, like the Norwegians or the Spanish or other like Polish people, then of course we speak English, but I think it's just easier to switch to German when you're just Germans amongst yourself. So Yes that makes sense. Yeah, you feel most comfortable. Yeah, it's like you're not trying to hide it. Yeah, Carson. It's like us when we go out for a beer is like, you know, we speak to each other in English, not in Spanish. I mean we throw in a couple of Spanish words, but Feels more comfortable. Yeah. For sure, for sure, for sure. I wasn't considering, yeah, that you were with other German speakers, I guess. Yeah. You just revert to your mother tongue if if you can, you do. It's just what we all do. Yeah. There was like this one old guy who was like harassing us that we weren't speaking Polish. Really? But like he was really old and really drunk and probably not the most fortunate in life, so I don't See that as a representation of Polish people at all. I think the younger generations just like some Nazi jokes and that's it. So it's chill like that. Mm-hmm. It's chill like that. Just make some Nazi jokes chill like that. If you're Nazi jokes, just chill. It's not good. That's too bad that. Any other comments or questions, Carson, that you might have? I know you have a list. Well yeah. I mean we've kinda I guess before well, would you do it all again? I mean, I know you met Paulina. Would you do it all again? Go to Poland, study there, learn, you know, study medicine and walk through the snow and Yeah. Definitely. I would I would do it all again. Like now I'm too tired And I was like, what the fuck were you thinking moving abroad and stuff? But I would definitely do it again. I met so many amazing people and I grew so much and I got my degree out of it and yeah, I wouldn't wanna change that time for the world. I have so much nostalgia about it actually. I Yeah. That's great. Yeah. That's great. Yeah, you made the most of it. And yeah. It takes a lot to move to a new place and where you don't know anybody and different language, different customs, old guys skipping you shit for speaking your your own language, like Yeah. These little things they add up and and sometimes I don't know about you, but I mean I guess I could probably imagine for everybody there's moments where you're just like, What am I doing here? Who am I? You started this episode by saying, I don't even know who I am sometimes and I think that's That's like the truest thing for anybody living abroad. Yeah. I was panicking all the way to Poland in the car with my dad. Cause like you sign up being like super motivated and being so happy that you got in and whatnot, and then you pack your bags and you move and it all gets real and shit hits the fan and then you kinda like I don't know, I had like one week before moving to Poland I had like this regret spiral, like what the hell did I do? And but yeah, it's pretty much sink or swim from then on. And Sure. Yeah. I I think w we've all been there. I mean definitely. I mean I would do it all over again. I don't see myself, you know, living in the States full time or in Poland right now full time. But it is scary. Right? It's like you definitely have those thoughts, you know, that you miss your family, you miss your friends. Yeah. And then you think about, fuck, like, why did I move? Whether for me was whether it was back to Poland or, you know, here to Spain. But then you really start to also appreciate the little things. Carson and I just recently had a conversation about like, fuck, like, why did I move to Spain? Like, this is shitty about Spain, this is another shitty thing about Spain, just like complaining. Yeah. But then at the end of the day, it's like Would it really be better in another place? There would be a different set of problems wherever we move. So true. That's right. That's right. So what would you say life in Spain is like? What would I say life is like in Spain? Louder. Yeah, I I noticed that. I noticed that much. my God. I don't know. I I guess at this point it's hard for me to distinguish and and and just have a comparison to what life was like there because now after being here for seven years, it's just the norm for me. Like I consider it my home. When I go to the US, I'm like I want to go home. I kind of miss being home. is Spain now. So home has changed and I feel a little bit more like a like a a foreigner when I visit the United States. So I guess it's louder. communication it's weird that communication can be all sometimes more effective in Spanish and it culturally as well, not just the language, but the way they communicate. but also sometimes it's just this complete lack of communication. Like it's completely looked over. There they're like I'll give you a situation where I you so in the United States you're eating at a restaurant, you have really good customer service. they're they're very attentive. They're gonna come to the table five hundred times and that's annoying now. so annoying. Is everything okay? Is it still okay? And they're always food in your mouth and then you kind of answer. Yeah. Well So it's all dressed up, it's all for the show. It's how can I welcome, thank you for coming in today. I'll be your server. I hope you remember my name. And then in Spain it's like, What do you want? What can I put for you? They're like looking around, kinda distracted while you're telling them they're ordered like, Are you getting this? Are you writing this down? And most of the time they're pretty good about that. They get it all. Yeah. And so there's just a little like, hey, you don't need to talk too much to communicate what you need on a simple in like a simple exchange, right? Yeah. And then sometimes I guess maybe the over the certain things are overlooked. And I I can't k think of an example right now, but maybe Paulina could try. I think in Spain life is a little bit slower. I mean, coming from New York, I that's a completely drastic change, you know? But I definitely feel like everything, even though my life is very busy, you know, like I teach and whatever, but it just feels like the days for some reason, or like not just the days, but also like bureaucracy, like all of those type of things, paperwork, it's so fucking slow. Like I would have to go to the town hall. Yeah, sorry. The the word paperwork triggers me because like my last Six months of existing were just nonstop paperwork. Yeah. And last two weeks for me have been nonstop paperwork. Yeah. For me, with getting getting like all of the things for for like getting married and certificate and whatever, like going there. I had to go there four fucking times and they were still like, but I don't know if you need this stamp. I'm like, I don't need this stamp. And I told them, like, I don't need it. Then finally we got our fucking interview. And now like we need to do another thing. And it's like, bro, like. So much fucking paperwork just to get fucking married. Like it's just like a lot of ridiculous things with and it it all is like processed super slow. And one other thing that really irks me is this aspect of like when with job process, they're not very good at saying yes or no. I feel like they beat around a bush very often and they say Yeah, we'll give you an answer in about a and you're like, okay, great. You'll wait that week and you still don't hear from them and you're like in that awkward limbo, like, do I send him a message? Do I follow up? Like, should I be the one sending a message? Like, I feel like in the States it's more clear, like you finish a job interview and they say, Okay, yes or no? Whether they give you the answer the day or two later, but they give you an answer in Poland similar way. Like they will send you an email, sorry, but you're n you're now going to your next stage. That was stressful. Or you hear nothing. Wow. Yeah, or or you hear nothing at all. I had an interview, I don't even know how long it's been. It's been over a week. Not a you didn't make it to next round or anything. That's awful. That would piss me off so much. Yeah. But I don't know if that's a Spain thing as much as it is like a job thing. Nowadays, with so many people applying to the same job, I think they're just overwhelmed and they're not, you know, auto replying to everybody. They're just there's too many people. I don't know. I heard that Spain kinda has issues with unemployment, but that was years ago, so I don't know how true that still is, statistically speaking. I think There are jobs, but they require like stupid little things of that you you're thinking like how would I even have ten years of experience in this with five years of experience in that for this type of position, which like I don't know, it's something that is completely new. Yeah. Or they would have like really crazy requirements, like you need to speak Italian, French. Spanish, English, and German, if if that if you would speak German, that also would be great. I need you to have three years of experience as a secretary, and you're not even applying as a secretary, you're applying for something else, and you're like Yeah, no. Who who the fuck was that? Yeah. So I can't speak to that specifically for Spain. I've what you what Paulina just described, I've had with jobs I'm applying to in all of Europe, because I'm applying to like IT cybersecurity jobs, entry level. And that's the same thing. It's entry level, junior, like you don't need experience and then you start reading the job description, it's like we want you to have At least two or three years experience. Like you just said it's entry level. What are you like what are we saying here? they're getting better. Those the listings are getting more realistic, but one thing is true about Spain in that is that the salaries are super low in comparison to Germany, Ireland, Netherlands, France even. Yeah. Belgium. Like, I mean when I can I I I filter out those jobs, those roles. But then I'm also kind of at a disadvantage because I'm not a y EU citizen. So I I wouldn't probably need a sponsor in order to work for one of those countries, even as a remote employee, possibly. It's like all this bureaucracy, like we've kind of been touching on now, it's just it adds up. It's like, dude, I'm a resident, I'm a legal resident, I'm married to a Spanish person, I got all my papers, I'm here working legally, and Spain is part of the EU, but you're telling me I might need a sponsor to work for another country. my god, like How like feasible is it for you to get the citizenship? Yeah, I can, but I have to verbally denounce my US citizenship. I don't like So you can't do duels. You can't, but you can. Apparently, and I don't know if this has changed, but you can the US doesn't recognize a verbal denunciation of your citizenship while in Spain as like a legal process. They don't they don't just say, you said it in Spain, so we're taking away your passport, you're not Poland is same way. Poland is the same thing. It's pain. It's it's so dumb. It's like why make me sweat? Yeah. You know, why make me even question I could lose my birthright citizenship? Yeah. Are you serious? Yes, they just want you to prove that you're submissive to them or something. You've gotta be some weird thing. You're me you're their bitch. You're like, Yes, we're gonna make this little ginger our bitch. I mean if you pay me If the price is right. man. Well that that took a turn for the Wow are we joking out? Thank God. So but anyways, you can do it. but it it's kind of a weird feeling and I'm if you know me, you know I'm like I'm a citizen of the world type of person. Like this is dumb. Why do I have to do this? You know, and so I I I haven't I I have been considering it only for the fact that I want to earn a salary that actually lets me live a a pretty decent life. I want to earn twenty, twenty sometimes twenty thousand for in a year for a full time job. Are you kidding me? I wouldn't even it's too much it's too little. Yeah. Yeah. I wouldn't get out of bed for that. Definitely. It's it's ridiculous. We're back on track. You are what kind of doctor? Is your doctor, right? yeah. First you kinda like you study medicine in general and then you pick your specialization later. So I'm just starting my residency, I guess that's what you call it in America, in psychiatry. And yeah, I'm I'm excited. Okay. That's amazing. Why why did you choose psychiatry? Yeah. Cause I always kind of had an interest in why people are the way they are and wanted to understand them. And sort of the topics that other people might find scary or off putting or don't understand have always intrigued me. So I was kinda like being a bit nerdy about like neuroscience and psychiatry and I guess also criminal psychology in a sense. and then I didn't really know how to like redirect my life after graduation. So I was like fucking around and finding out and did that in the form of doing one year of volunteer work at the psych psychiatric hospital. And I kinda saw a need for good doctors there and kinda fell in love with the job. And basically I saw a bunch of idiots at work and how they were failing people and I just I don't know. I had trouble like watching that and not doing something about it even if it like has been almost a decade now of like dedicating myself to becoming what I'm becoming professionally, but yeah. Hey, respect. Good. Thank you. That's awesome. Really cool. That's great that you were yeah, you put yourself in their shoes, like you did the volunteering and you saw firsthand. Like, you know what? This this is me. I can see it. That's that's really cool. Yeah. 'Cause I mean those are extremely vulnerable people and they're in crisis situations when they arrive at your ward and Therefore a good psychiatrist can really make or break you. both in terms of how they talk to you, what kind of therapy they give you and what kind of medications. cause you know, there's a couple of medications that can be detrimental to a certain group of people. Like mm, for example, if you give someone who is in a depressive episode but is actually bipolar SSRIs, then you can make them manic and then they could potentially do a bunch of impulsive things and fuck their whole life up. Or if you have someone who previously had addiction issues and you put them on medication that can like kinda trigger their cravings and they relapse that can also fuck their life up. So this and also just talking in a respectful way to people and not stigmatizing them and that has happened quite a few times. Like when we had our psych class in Poland, for the most part our professors were really great. but there was this one younger guy who had us interviewed a s thirteen year old girl who had like divorced parents and the father had a new family and therefore she kinda got really neglected. And then she turned to like older guys and selling news for pocket money and for some like attention and there was a situation where she got taken advantage of by some older teenagers pretty badly. And yeah, sorry for turning it so serious, but like the whole situation infuriated all of us back then. And this feature was like, go on, tell them what you did, tell them what you did. Like in a really like slut shamey manner and it's a 13 year old kid that just desperately wants attention. Like, how can you not see that? And yeah. Wow. So that was the most infuriating example of someone probably piling trauma upon the poor patient for the rest of their life and yeah, I know. Wow, wow, wow. Yeah. That's having That's why we need good psych psychiatrists and therapists. Ones that can actually listen and not not judge. I mean, their job is not really there to judge you. Definitely that's not their job. Their job is to help you. Yeah. And I think mm, psychiatry is kinda treated like the stepchild of medicine. Cause A lot of doctors who are in somatic disciplines, so like things that only concern the body devalue the brain as an organ and kinda don't understand that it can have imbalances and yes, it's all in your head, but that's the fucking problem about it. So yeah. Right. Everything you're saying makes me well brings me back to this kind of I don't know. simplistic mindset I have of psychiatry versus psychology. And I guess I've always thought that psychiatry is so much psychology and then you give them drugs. Like can you maybe, you know, for my for myself and our listeners explain what are kind of like the stark differences between psychology and psychiatry? first of all, I think a good psychiatric evaluation actually starts with excluding physical causes of mental illness cause a lot of hormonal imbalances, a lot of intoxications, a lot of organ dysfunction can actually have psychiatr psychiatric symptoms. So you need to like be smart enough in the somatic sense for you to actually detect that and for patients not to be undiagnosed. And well a Bad psychiatrist just prescribes some medication according to, you know, the guidelines and calls it a day. But really it's difficult to figure out what works from person to person and you really need to know the drugs like a virtuoso to find the right combination and the right dosage. And it can actually take quite a bit of time. And you need to really have a good pharmacological understanding of all the side effects and maybe the off label uses. To actually find the right combination for your patient. And then also we work pretty closely with psychologists. And you can also specialize in psychotherapy when you're a psychiatrist. And then it's really a skill how you talk to the patient and if you find the right therapy modality. and there's so many different modes of therapy that you can actually apply. And then also there's a social component for it. Like you can decide if you need to link up your patient with a social worker or not. Or if they maybe need a guardianship, or if they need some special housing, and you can kinda like mediate between these different worlds. And so I think it's really it's a lot more complex than what people think it is. For sure. Yeah. I like that. I hear I mean, if we're looking back the give COVID as an example. I mean, I know this isn't like psychiatric in practice, but the idea behind people you experimenting with ivermectin and maybe other drugs to right to to get better to get better, right? When they had COVID. And some would say but this whole like you said, when you when you mentioned the off label uses of of medicine, that kind of triggered that thought in my brain. It's just that sometimes the intention and the actual results or the effect of a drug that maybe he doesn't have a lot of research or aren't a lot of studies that have been done. Sounds like you kinda have to go and and investigate and Yeah. And be aware. Just be aware of the other effects of these drugs that aren't maybe the main effects but can can affect affect affect these people because of their situation. Definitely like you kinda need to always stay on top of new studies that come out, both for psychiatric medication, for somatic medications and also for different supplements. Cause a lot of people underestimate what plant supplements can actually cause. Like for example, if you combine ashwagandha with antidepressants, you can get serotonin syndrome. Like few people actually know that. Or that actually immunosuppressants, like Corticosteroids can give you psychosis or make you manic, like Wow. That a lot of people underestimate that. And like I do like holistic medicine a lot. Like I try to consider every part of my patient, like their social settings, their nutrition, all of that. And you can well, I'm definitely not one of those people who says, Well just eat better and go outside mode and you wouldn't be depressed, like no. Fuck that, that's too simplistic. But it does have an effect on us, definitely. And I think you can work with supplements and I well, it's always difficult to get off label use for medication authorized, but we're finding out so many new things that Ozempic, for example, kinda helps with addiction issues and Right. There's always something new to discover and I think that's really beautiful. But on the other hand During the pandemic there was so much conspiracy tinfoil had shit coming up that still pisses me off to this day. And it just it increased exponentially, and I sometimes feel like half of my work is just like discussing these theories and kinda like barking someone down and explaining the basics of stuff that yeah. I don't know. I think if you don't have like basic understanding of physiology, then you can fall for so much bullshit and I don't blame the people at all. For sure. But yeah. I don't know. It kinda it kinda saddens me, stresses me out a lot that yeah. Yeah, but as you said, you can't really blame the people, right? Because somebody like me, you know, who literally like I remember I had my ankle really bruised like one time when I was living in in South Poland and Alpola. And I literally send you a message being like, my God, Frank, how am I going to die? Is this sprained? Is this broken? Is this what? Right? because people don't really know, right? We don't we know so little about our own body, right? Like we freak out about the smallest thing because we think, my god, it's cancer, right? my god, it's this. I think that every fucking day. Worst case scenario, everything. Right. And so obviously you can't blame people because I feel like we also don't get enough of that type of education in schools, right? So it sort of goes back to this topic of like, if you don't go to medical school, you're not really gonna know that. Plus, there's this whole thing of pseudo doctors on Instagram and TikTok, and you listen to their advice and you think if I eat lemon mixed with this with ginger and do this and blah blah blah, I won't ever have any gut problems. And it's like, I don't know. There was a time in my life when I would take the time to like go through the points properly, read up on them again so I don't get caught in any mistakes, like ever. And it would quote studies and would like explain it and try to like debunk those posts. But it's like you know, it's like a hydra every time you take your sword and decapitate one to new arise. And these bitch ass influencers always have the audacity to be like, wow, that's a long text. I must have really triggered you. Like yes, you have triggered me, but you're also wrong for the reason that you think. Like my God. It's because it's one of my questions for you was what's keeping you from being an influencer? You know, spreading the good word, the the sound of mind, like, you know, real somebody on the inside sharing her expertise. Whoa. Would you ever do that? I guess so. Hmm I maybe after a couple of years of work and like more experience. Because right now I feel like I don't have the credentials because in terms of my medical career I'm a baby. And I yeah, but and I also guess that as an influencer I wouldn't really know what to focus on because apart from psychiatry of so many different interests. even in terms of health. Like I'm really into nutritional science. I'm really into like sports medicine or however you call that in English. like hydro medicine is super interesting to me. And so I wouldn't wouldn't really know. And then I also love fashion and Hello Kitty and all of these things. So it kinda really varies You can be the fashionista doctor with a Hello Kitty on the side and just talk about things. Talk about the things that you know and have learned. I mean, put it to good use, you know? Yeah, maybe I could invent Hello Kitty therapy, like heal people with the power of friendship or something. I feel like that would be cute. Let's trademark it right here. You don't have the idea. and yeah. Any other questions, Carson? like Franca, you have a question or comment? Hello Kitty is like significant for my own mental health. Okay. Cause you know what dopamine decor is? What is it? It's like, you know how the world's like getting considerably grayer and like more depressing and less elaborate in terms of design? Mm-hmm. Basically, when you buy a bunch of kawaii shit and you decorate your house with it, it makes you so happy and so much more resistant to stress. That yeah. It kinda stabilizes you. So that's all this Hello Kitty stuff. Yeah. Like this cute mug where she has all her friends. Uh-huh. Except for Pompompurin because he always shows his butthole and I guess that's not wanted here. You can just draw him in, you know? Yeah I might. I might. I think it's mean to exclude him just 'cause he likes to show hole, you know, it's a bit slut shamey. man. man. Yeah, we're r we really need more doctors like Franca, come on. Like I can imagine just like going to Franca's office, you know, and just like chatting shit with her and just like, you know, being like Franca, like, I need help with this. And her telling me like, yeah, well, you know, you gotta go out there and be a hoe. Like some sort of advice like that, you know? she's like, you could take the red pill, you could take the blue pill, or you can take this Hello Kitty mug. Exactly. Have you tried it? Then you don't know it doesn't work. Come on. I think I'm gonna have Hello Kitty mugs in my office and make tea and like offer a Hello Kitty mug to the patients. I think that would be a great conversation starter. That be super cute. I don't see why not. No. Well, I encourage you if at some point you feel the need to spread the good word, share some knowledge with people on Instagram or whatever social media platform you you choose. I personally don't like social media. I I have I've I was I was Personal trainer, I studied extra life science. I used to think that maybe this is something I could do. I want to, you know, connect with people. I want people to have good information. Because it's like we've been discussing, there's so much bad information. People just jump on this train and they assume, it works, you know, taking everybody as the expert, as the authority. But really, I mean, the people who are the authorities, people who do have experience who are who are passionate and actively learning in their field. Those are the ones I love to see on it on Instagram specifically. And I follow them when I when I feel like they're genuinely into what they're preaching. Same. And you know, that's that's awesome. That's cool to see. And whether we like it or not, we that's our news. That's our CNN. That's our NBC. That's our your news networks. Like we that's how we get our information. So Yeah. On one hand, I kind of enjoy the communal spirit of like exchanging information or opinions with people. like, for example, I have scoliosis, which I mean it's fairly mild, but it still kinda like impacts my day-to-day living, like the way I need to adjust my lift at the gym or something like that. Like focus on unilateral training to equalize the imbalances and stuff like that. Or You know, sometimes pain management when I'm really stressed and really helps me to like talk to other people who also have it, to like feel less alone, to get some tips, you know. Definitely. But on the other hand, sometimes there's quite a few asphalts out there. And you really need to just learn to just hit the block button and know that it's not worth engaging because I used to get in in into fights with people. Like I have a pretty strong sense of justice if you couldn't tell. So when some I appreciate that. When someone is being, you know, bullying someone online or being racist or being homophobic, I felt the need to like give them an attitude adjustment. And it's kinda like Because you can't actually bitch slap them, it goes on and on But they will probably never change their mind and you kinda have to learn to like accept that and I think a lot of Maybe they're not even real people. There's so many bots. Yeah, right. It's always the faceless profiles. Like whenever someone doesn't have a profile picture, I'm like, Okay, a red flag. Like what are you hiding, bro? Especially when they're like calling some fitness influenza girl ugly or mid or fat or whatever. And I'm like, show yourself, bro. But yeah, come out and show yourself. Yeah. Show some hole, bro. Show some hole. There's one thing I learned from this episode. Gotta show hole. Women don't show hole, yeah. man. Carson is over there like, my god, what what am I dealing with? Who am I dealing with here? I don't know. Maybe that's why I'm not getting the jobs. I don't know. Not showing up corn holes. You know, just when you send the C V throws all. Yeah. man. I don't have it more questions. Franca, I think you c covered a lot of what I actually had here. the holistic remedies, you know, the sort of natural remedies as well. the pseudo doctors and everything. Carson, I don't know if you have any questions or Franca, if you have any questions. I mean, I have a question here, but I think I need to modify. I won't. We're not gonna go there. Alrighty. So So no. Do you have any natural remedies for people who just constantly want to show their hole? Like do you have you tried anything that works? Can you recommend some? I don't know. I'm like really at my last leg here, probably the restraints and like heavy sedation. Yeah, Brandon, good luck with this one. Brandon is gonna have a fucking throwing hole in habitation. You should come to Berlin. man. man. Alrighty. Franka, do you have any questions? Yeah. Just wanna say, please don't cancel me for being a psychiatrist and making autism jokes. Like That would be considered unprofessional. But yeah. But no, you you were making a reference to to the book, which is right. I mean it's also like literally a meme about our entire nation. And yeah. I think most of us in Germany might have had the thought that maybe they're on the spectrum at some point. Like Yeah. And and that's the thing. I mean, it's also one of those things where people with autism very often don't get especially with that sort of lower level on the spectrum of autism, don't get diagnosed in the proper time, you know? I mean, what is the proper time? But like they normally don't get diagnosed at a younger age. especially women from what I have heard. I don't know if that's true, but women generally get diagnosed much later because They mask very well. So it's it's not, you know, we're not over here making fun of people with with autism or anything like that. It's just this aspect of, well, you we never know, right? There's so many different components to it. Like I definitely think my whole gang is somewhat neurodivergent. Like two of my close female friends. got diagnosed with ADHD in adulthood. And my best friend is kinda like getting her diagnostic workup done for autism. So it is really more common than people think, especially in women. And yeah, a lot of conditions only get studied in men. So I have to say that also psychiatry is a little bit sexist by default because we just don't know all of the things that you know present in the in the female form or of neurodivergence like so many women just get borderline slapped on them as a label without much second thought and then later it turns out that it's like chronic PTSD from just like never receiving their autism or ADHD diagnosis and of course that accumulates trauma because people will cross your boundaries and stigmatize you and yeah. Yeah. Of course that's traumatizing. I have a I have a bit of a problem with labels and autism is no exception. Somebody with ADHD, O C D all this, I don't see people as needing so many diagnoses. I don't really agree with you have this syndrome, you have this situation. I think people are different and we're meant to be different. And we can not feel the same way about the same thing. And if most people do, that's great. Okay, maybe more people fit in that, you know, bubble. But we're all somewhere on the spectrum of being weird to somebody else. Yeah. But maybe we're just how we're supposed to be, and that's part of it all. I mean, yeah, we can all get help and we need help, like, but to say you are this, this is your situation, like, okay, don't put me in that category. Like, I I mean maybe that works for those people, like you've similar people you've seen with the thing going on with me, but label, label, label, I just like a couple bullshit. Like, in terms of symptoms, there's so much overlap between different psychiatric conditions anyway. And I think a label is good in terms of maybe giving me some kind of idea what the my like the right treatment would be. How the given condition can be managed, you know? But for a lot of people it's just awfully stigmatizing where it feels like a life sentence almost. Yeah. That's that's kind of what I'm getting at. Yeah. Yeah, that's definitely where it mm becomes problematic to say the least. Yeah fresh. I mean we're already self limiting enough. Yeah. You know, we're already harder hard on ourselves way way harder than we should be. we're our own worst critics. And then we ha we have the outside world telling us we're different, labeling us and then yeah, how is how are we not supposed to be stigmatized? I mean, how do we expect there you go again with the psychology of it, the connecting with the person and and seeing how they think and I mean really caring about how you say things to them. I think that's so often overlooked and we just get to the cold prescription. But I like where you're going with this. I like your mindset. I think you have the right right mindset. Yeah. I would also say that because we live in a capitalistic society, we kinda get like measured against what the most productive human being would be and how you would behave in a way that is least complicated to work with and that generates the most amount of productivity. Yeah. and I mean if ADHD and autism didn't have some kind of purpose, some kind of, you know, maybe even an evolutionary reason, they wouldn't exist. and you know I think a lot of people could get away with being unmedicated if we didn't try to like squeeze them into some kind of routine that is, you know, easy to handle for everybody else. And psychiatry kind of has really dirty roots, considering that we like used to lobotomize people just so they wouldn't be a bother anymore. Which definitely didn't provide the patient with much comfort, but it Yeah. Yeah. That's why we are we are crazy species. I wouldn't invade us. The aliens saw what we did to our own kind. Wait. Things we do to each other. Things we say to each other. I wouldn't want to be our friend either. Wow. You guys touched upon so many good like ideas and topics that my brain is like processing right now. But yeah. I could definitely see this aspect with with labels, how it could be good, but it can sometimes also be problematic. But also this aspect of just yeah, like we're so obsessed with having like this perfect human that as Franca as you said, is so productive, right? This capitalistic society that we live in that it's just constantly on the go, right? Like we need to be the best version of ourselves. We need to do everything much more like efficiently, much better. And maybe, yeah, the people who who are on the spectrum or maybe people who have AD ADHD or ADD or all of you know different types of disorders or conditions, maybe they're the ones who in reality can be more productive than us typical people, you know? Like not in a way that we need to find something that is wrong with us. You know? Because obviously I don't want people wa running around thinking like, I need to get diagnosed for this and this and this and the other thing. because that's also not healthy, but just this aspect of we need to stop mm seeing people who have those certain diagnoses as that they can't reach the same things that so to say normal I'm gonna put it in quotation because nobody is fucking normal in this world anymore. that normal people can achieve, you know, or certain goals that I don't know, a person cannot achieve. Of course, everyone has their limitations, but a normal person has their limitations as well. Yeah. So And I mean you can also kind of use neurodivergence as a strength in terms of, for example, making your special interest, your profession. Yeah. Not a lot of people get that lucky, but it's certainly a possibility. For sure. Yeah. I keep thinking I actually have a friend who goes to law school and She's really one of the most intelligent people that I know. But she has ADHD, so in Germany she cannot become a judge. Cause there's something about not being appropriate for the job due to attention span or some bullshit paragraph. And I actually think that's unconstitutional. yeah, but it's a thing. Well, tough. Heavy. I think the best person to get the job should have the job, regardless of their medical situation. If you can perform better at these tasks and you, you know, take a practical interview and you maybe do two or three 'cause you have to be sure you have ten good candidates, then you do that. But you don't in your screening know anything about this person's medical history. You take them at face value, like they come in, they do the job or n or not. Maybe you give them a trial, maybe you give a six month trial, or you you you s I mean there's a way to do it, but to discriminate based on that, I mean, we're just that's no different from discriminating based on the color of your skin. I mean Yeah. And in Germany there's like multiple jobs that you can do when you have mental health diagnosis. I think I actually lack the English terminology to like precisely explain what it is, but It's definitely a thing. And in my opinion, it just leads to people with certain career aspirations or life dreams to not get the help that they need and deserve. And that's also something that needs to change, I think. I mean the medical field is definitely changing in general. I'm I'm hoping, you know, and I assume, I mean, there are so many different discoveries that are made constantly, but there still needs to be a lot of groundwork that is done. You know, like a lot of groundwork that needs to be done, let's put it this way. And kind of circling back to the health influencer points, I think as physicians it's kind of a little bit of our fault too, because w we have kind of gambled the trust of some patients by being dismissive and not giving them the care that they need or by being like really unempathetic in the way that we talk to them. And then it Only understandable that they go to an alternative health practitioner who can take more time for them, who actually listens to them, and then of course they build better rapport and then they have more trust in those people. Like I'm not even gonna judge them for it to be honest. Sure. Well we are all sensitive to our experiences and if yeah. It just takes one one moment of, you know. Just where you say something wrong as as a practitioner. You say something wrong, you give bad advice. It can be so damaging to the to the person that they just they lose all trust. They lose trust in you and the establishment. They like you said, they outsource, they get a damn social media for advice. All right. These people this person has a hundred thousand followers. they must be they must be right. They must be saying everything truthfully and everything's backed by research. You know, like you said. It's people who care about what they do who who care to continue to you know you know, participate in continuous learning and show passion and love. I mean it's also kind of easy to lose your motivation or your passion for your field when you're really overworked, which is another issue that are that people are struggling with increasingly. Like one of my friends is basically on the verge of burnout 'cause she works in the emergency department. And like does one shift after another and my other friend has a reduced kidney function now 'cause she was so busy at her new medical department. that she barely had time to drink and also didn't get much sleep, so so if she was drinking something it was energy drink. So yeah. So that's true. I would like to see humans working fewer hours and giving more quality. Yeah. Yeah. Cause we we know what happens. Quantity goes up, quality goes down. That's true for just anything. That's why I'm actually only working eighty percent at my new job, so I have one day off extra a week. Because I yeah. Thankfully I can afford to do that. but like I know not everybody can. Yeah, I definitely know that when I'm overworked, the quality of work that I go do goes down the drain and when your social batteries run empty, you literally like get empathy for fatigue and kinda get like I guess mad at people for requiring the attention from you that you would need to give to yourself. And I just don't wanna become that person 'cause I've seen so many people burn out and become like really bitter and then become that harmful healthcare provider that I never wanna be. So yeah. Well, you gotta take care of yourself, right? In in order to provide good service to others. Right? And the service that they need. The help that they need. Sure. For sure. So my phone is at twelve percent now. Yeah. I was just going to say we should do a we should do this as our wrap. Yeah. Yeah. I have a feeling we're gonna need a part two at some point if you're if you're up for it. Yeah. I'm up for it. Cool. I really enjoyed the evening program of talking to you guys. That was really cool. Yeah, this was great. We enjoyed and relaxing at the same time. Happy to hear that. We're well, I really enjoyed having you here. I don't know about Carson, but I'm sure he did as well. I did too, yes. I felt the same way. Yeah. There were it was like this this wave. Good wave. Yeah. Just at the right time, I think everything flowed naturally. Yeah, we had funding, we had traumatizing, we had serious, we had informative. I think that's pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's what we're that's what we're going for. So thanks for keeping it real. Yeah. thank you so much, Franka, for For being here and for talking to us. Yeah, thank you. And yeah. be aware of mental health and don't forget to show some whole. And on that note, thank you for watching everybody. We're on all channels, all forms of social media. Give us a follow, like, share, subscribe, all that jazz. And we'll catch you on the next one. Bye. Thanks so good. Bye.