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The Truth Behind 20 Years of Fame - Jake Owen · The Stephan Hogan Podcast

0:00
SPEAKER_03: What is, if you could think of think back about it, one of the best pieces of advice you were ever given?
0:06
SPEAKER_01: Uh it's from my granddad for sure.
0:08
SPEAKER_01: My granddad's 103.
0:09
SPEAKER_01: He'll be 104 this this year.
0:12
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
0:13
SPEAKER_01: A few years he'll probably be 110.
0:15
SPEAKER_01: Centurion.
0:16
SPEAKER_01: He's this well, yeah.
0:17
SPEAKER_01: Centurion would definitely be in that 100 year mark.
0:20
SPEAKER_01: So he has high LDL numbers, which I just learned the other day from a is that cholesterol?
0:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's cholesterol.
0:27
SPEAKER_01: Because I have high LDL.
0:29
SPEAKER_01: Oh.
0:29
SPEAKER_01: Doctor was telling me, like, it's dangerous.
0:31
SPEAKER_01: We need to get that down.
0:31
SPEAKER_01: But this guy, the other guy was telling me he's never seen a centurion that had low LDL numbers.
0:38
SPEAKER_01: The LDL.
0:40
SPEAKER_01: We could get on medical talk all we want here.
0:41
SPEAKER_01: But my granddad is a centurion.
0:44
SPEAKER_01: And uh so is my grandma.
0:45
SPEAKER_01: She's 102.
0:47
SPEAKER_01: But he said the advice that you said, the best advice I ever had.
0:51
SPEAKER_01: And it's something I have to remember a lot, that you can't be truly grateful with a bitter heart.
1:00
SPEAKER_01: And being grateful, I think, is the key to life.
1:06
SPEAKER_01: But there's also a key to forgetting all the things that make you bitter.
1:11
SPEAKER_01: And uh I've that's been my like path, I think, over the last few years is to figure out how to remove bitterness in order to truly be grateful because I do harness a lot of bitterness that I can't necessarily easily chuck in the trash can sometimes.
1:35
SPEAKER_01: Over the last few years, I've had quite a few things happen in my life where I would humanly, normally, the reaction is to be bitter about it, you know.
1:46
SPEAKER_01: And uh so I guess I was just being a normal human until my granddad, who I consider a 103-year-old man, is not really human.
1:53
SPEAKER_01: That doesn't seem that human.
1:54
SPEAKER_01: And so I'm like, what is he doing that I'm not?
1:57
SPEAKER_01: And it's that it's relieving the bitterness.
2:01
SPEAKER_01: And so, for instance, like I work, you know, I've had people I work with that like have like genuinely like hurt my feelings in ways that I didn't feel at the time I deserved.
2:13
SPEAKER_01: And when you think you don't deserve something that's happened to you, you can hold on to bitterness.
2:19
SPEAKER_01: And uh, and so I did for a long time until I realized that like I don't necessarily deserve the health that I have.
2:29
SPEAKER_01: I don't deserve two beautiful children, probably.
2:32
SPEAKER_01: I don't deserve a lot of things that come my way.
2:35
SPEAKER_01: And so if you realize that and and realize that there is really no such thing as bitterness other than what you like exude or like harness and hold on to, like it gets a lot easier when you can get rid of that shit.
2:50
SPEAKER_01: Because uh, for instance, like a friend of mine that I that I went south with working with, um, that was a best friend of mine for a long time, still is, but we just don't talk.
3:02
SPEAKER_01: Um and uh I saw him at a gas station one day.
3:07
SPEAKER_03: Was that was that awkward?
3:09
SPEAKER_01: No, well, I see him all the time.
3:11
SPEAKER_01: I'd pass him in his truck, and every time I pass him, it'd piss me off.
3:15
SPEAKER_01: I'd see him and it'd piss me off.
3:17
SPEAKER_01: Like, and I just like like and then for the rest of like the next two hours, I would just be thinking about it.
3:24
SPEAKER_01: And then one day, in the same area that I would pass him a lot, I saw him getting gas at a gas station.
3:31
SPEAKER_01: I was like, I'm pulling in.
3:33
SPEAKER_01: And I whipped in right behind him, and he didn't see me.
3:36
SPEAKER_01: I had a different car than I did when we stopped working together.
3:40
SPEAKER_01: And I got out and word for word, I said, Hey bitch.
3:45
SPEAKER_01: And he looked at me, he's like, Whoa.
3:48
SPEAKER_01: I said, Give me a hug.
3:50
SPEAKER_01: And I gave him a hug.
3:52
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I just I'm sorry, man.
3:55
SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm sorry that I've been holding this like bitterness and resentment towards you, because I don't really need to.
4:01
SPEAKER_01: And I think like we just need to be humans and accept that we both were have our opinions and whatever.
4:07
SPEAKER_01: And he like hugged me and he was like, dude, oh my god, like this feels so good to hear you say that.
4:13
SPEAKER_01: He's like, I like like I've like, he's like, I've been wanting to tell you that same thing, and like sometimes like humanity, you you just gotta like face to face do this, what you said.
4:24
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes you gotta get in front of someone and just be like, Yeah, man, like let's figure this out.
4:27
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes you just need to look at your buddy and be like, hey, bitch, like what are we doing here?
4:31
SPEAKER_01: You know, yeah.
4:32
SPEAKER_01: Uh, and so that helps like getting rid of that bitterness.
4:35
SPEAKER_01: So that's a long answer to your question of what's the best advice I ever got.
4:39
SPEAKER_01: It was like, it's from my granddad.
4:41
SPEAKER_01: It's the constant reminder that like what you think you deserve, you're probably not gonna get most of the time.
4:49
SPEAKER_01: And then we also get things that we don't deserve at all that are beautiful, yeah.
4:53
SPEAKER_01: Like the children, like the like the health, like the hap, like happiness that sometimes others don't get that you're wondering why you get this happiness that someone else probably deserves more than you do.
5:04
SPEAKER_01: It's like just take what you get and enjoy it.
5:07
SPEAKER_01: And that's kind of the best advice that I feel like I've been trying to harness, like, is what it is.
5:12
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
5:13
SPEAKER_03: Say that quote one more time from grand granddad.
5:16
SPEAKER_01: You can't be truly grateful if you have any bitterness in your heart.
5:21
SPEAKER_01: Like you have to get rid of bitterness.
5:23
SPEAKER_01: So it's basically you can't truly be grateful if you have bitterness in your heart.
5:28
SPEAKER_01: As you're a man of faith?
5:29
SPEAKER_01: Major, major.
5:30
SPEAKER_01: I mean, every I've got you know, my granddad is uh He's a hundred and and and almost four, and I I love to keep his his messages on my cell phone here, and these are every time.
5:47
SPEAKER_01: This is it, like stuff like this.
5:51
SPEAKER_00: Good morning, Jake.
5:56
SPEAKER_00: I just want to say hello, see where you are, and remind you take time to talk to God today, every day.
6:07
SPEAKER_00: Today always goes well if you do that.
6:11
SPEAKER_00: Olivia, hope everything is going well for you.
6:15
SPEAKER_00: I'll talk to you later.
6:17
SPEAKER_00: Bye.
6:19
SPEAKER_01: It's pretty awesome, right?
6:20
SPEAKER_01: Like a 103-year-old guy calling you.
6:23
SPEAKER_01: He calls me every day.
6:24
SPEAKER_01: The other day, he calls all of his grandkids, he touches me.
6:27
SPEAKER_01: I'm not special.
6:28
SPEAKER_01: Like, he just is a man of faith, a man of love, a man without bitterness in his heart.
6:34
SPEAKER_01: He's a man of God.
6:35
SPEAKER_01: And it's easy.
6:37
SPEAKER_01: I'm not a I'm not a God.
6:38
SPEAKER_01: Like, I love faith.
6:40
SPEAKER_01: I'm a very Christian guy, but I'm not like, I don't talk to my friends a lot about, you know, God and church and whatever.
6:46
SPEAKER_01: I grew up going to church pretty much each Sunday and you know, and doing all that.
6:51
SPEAKER_01: But like there's something too about country music and this world of like Tennessee's Southern Bible Belt.
6:58
SPEAKER_01: You have like people that are like, Do you go to church?
7:01
SPEAKER_01: They're like, we should go.
7:02
SPEAKER_01: And then you got other people that are like, man, I don't.
7:04
SPEAKER_01: There's like really no in-between.
7:06
SPEAKER_01: And uh, and when I moved to Nashville, I remember the first person I met on Broadway was back when Broadway had like t-shirt shops and stuff down there.
7:13
SPEAKER_01: Uh we walked in this place and I bought a uh Eli Western wear shirt that had roses on it.
7:18
SPEAKER_01: Figured I needed one moving to Nashville.
7:20
SPEAKER_01: And uh I'll remember, I'll never forget that guy.
7:23
SPEAKER_01: It was like, I was with my mom.
7:25
SPEAKER_01: This old man said, Son, did you just move to town?
7:28
SPEAKER_01: And my mom said, Yeah, I'm just dropping him off.
7:30
SPEAKER_01: You know, probably like every all these other kids coming to town too.
7:33
SPEAKER_01: And he said, Well, make sure you find yourself a good church.
7:36
SPEAKER_01: He said, There's plenty of them here, and uh, I'll never forget that.
7:40
SPEAKER_01: And uh he's right, man.
7:42
SPEAKER_01: Like it's taken me all this time because I did not find a church for 18 of the 20 years I've been here.
7:50
SPEAKER_01: You know, my church has been like a tour bus on Sunday morning, getting home, and then going to once I, you know, after a Saturday night show, you wake up Sunday morning at wherever bus drop-off is, and you're just like so excited to get home that it seems like the last thing on earth you're doing is rushing to church at you know 9 45 in the morning when you get home or something.
8:11
SPEAKER_01: So uh it took me a lot of years to realize that like the remove, not I didn't remove it from my life, I just didn't prioritize it.
8:19
SPEAKER_01: And I think that there's a lot of reasons why things that have happened in my life have happened because I've just got away from my faith.
8:26
SPEAKER_01: Like I allowed myself to think that I was like I was strong enough to walk this walk alone, and uh about the time that I would probably get cocky enough to think that I could do it by myself is when like shit would start to crumble.
8:41
SPEAKER_01: And uh what do you do when shit crumbles?
8:46
SPEAKER_01: You look back you look to the one person that you know can put the pieces back together, yeah.
8:51
SPEAKER_01: And so that's what I've I figured the last few years for me has been putting a lot of pieces back together.
9:01
SPEAKER_03: It's so easy to when things are going good, I feel like it's so easy to not really feel like you need to rely on God, and then when things aren't going good, it's like you do go back to your the one thing that you know where you're like, oh god, I can't control the situation.
9:20
SPEAKER_03: Like for me, I've had a lot of those the last few years.
9:23
SPEAKER_03: I can't control the outcome of this, but you know, so I'm gonna have faith and trust.
9:31
SPEAKER_03: And I think that's probably a lot of why your granddad has said what he's had, because you said how grateful he is and how loving he is and all those things.
9:43
SPEAKER_03: But I feel like that's probably because he's so connected from that message where he's like, make sure to spend some time with God today.
9:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, his his whole thing's always been like we were given this life for the reason to enjoy it, like like this gift we are given is what he's constantly reminding.
10:01
SPEAKER_01: Like, what are you so worried about?
10:03
SPEAKER_01: Like, this is meant to be spent enjoying it, not worrying about it.
10:08
SPEAKER_01: And uh the more worries that you have, like he's always told me, like, you can't do anything about the things you're worrying about.
10:16
SPEAKER_01: I've heard Willie Nelson say that too.
10:18
SPEAKER_01: Like he said, one thing that's and look at Willie all these years, like all of his buddies are gone, man.
10:23
SPEAKER_01: You know, but Willie's somehow still trucking.
10:25
SPEAKER_01: And he's always said that he's like, I just didn't tend to pay attention to or worry about things I can't control.
10:32
SPEAKER_01: And I will say that I've gotten a lot older in the last two years because I've worried about too many things that I can't control.
10:41
SPEAKER_01: And I've found myself resorting to things uh that I thought would help me not worry about things that I can't control.
10:51
SPEAKER_01: And that's not a good route to go either.
10:53
SPEAKER_01: So the constant reminder, whether it's from your granddad or whether it's looking at yourself in the mirror, just to remind yourself, like, why am I worried about this shit?
11:01
SPEAKER_01: Like, I can't, I can't control it.
11:04
SPEAKER_01: And all it's doing by worrying about it is is pushing you deeper down into a hole of stuff that doesn't feel good, you know.
11:12
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11:17
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12:32
SPEAKER_03: I'm curious because like the Willie stuff, I I see people like him and I'm like, man, I wish I could, and I think a lot of people feel this way when you see a guy like him.
12:42
SPEAKER_03: I wish I could be that carefree.
12:44
SPEAKER_03: I wish I could care less about the stupid stuff that circles in my brain and I get into thought looping.
12:53
SPEAKER_03: And I think a lot of people just want to be like, can't do anything about it, so I'm not gonna worry about it.
13:00
SPEAKER_03: And in theory, it's great, but in practice, I feel like it's very hard.
13:05
SPEAKER_03: It's like something you have to almost train yourself to do.
13:10
SPEAKER_03: Do you feel that way?
13:11
SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, you just said something pretty uh important to acknowledge that I think would help you.
13:18
SPEAKER_01: Like I mean, you just said, I wish sometimes I could do this and do that and whatever, and I'll just tell you as your new friend that you can't stop wishing.
13:28
SPEAKER_01: Stop wishing for it.
13:29
SPEAKER_01: Just fucking do it.
13:31
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
13:32
SPEAKER_01: Like I think people spend too much time wishing for things instead of just going like my grandad said, like, you're here to do it.
13:39
SPEAKER_01: Like it was the life was given for you to do this, so you have the option to worry about it, or you have the option to do the things that you that you think is what's best for you.
13:50
SPEAKER_01: And getting back to the Willie Nelson thing, something I think is a beautiful example, is like Willie has found his own way to be happy, be Willie Nelson, have people admire Willie for who he is outside of songwriting, just his who him as a human, him as how he carries himself, right?
14:07
SPEAKER_01: Well, uh, I've been really fortunate and lucky enough and been able to play music with and and jam with Lucas, Nelson, his son.
14:14
SPEAKER_01: And I've got to tell you, man, I find Lucas to be one of the most like bright lights of people to talk to, like this, like one-on-one.
14:25
SPEAKER_01: Like you feel connected to him in ways because he's really in tune with what you're saying, he cares about what you're saying, but he I think that stems from him fully understanding himself because he's gone through a lot too.
14:38
SPEAKER_01: But what he told me one time about like he he cut all his hair off, he's super fit, he looks awesome, like he feels awesome, like and you can see it in him.
14:47
SPEAKER_01: And instead of like, like he said to me, he's like being Willie's son, everybody wanted wants me to be like have braids and smoke weed, and that was my whole life, you know.
14:59
SPEAKER_01: And he's like, I want to be Lucas Nelson, I want to be who I'm meant to be, I want to live this life, and I can see that in him.
15:05
SPEAKER_01: And when you see people doing what they say they're gonna do, like it's inspiring, man.
15:10
SPEAKER_01: Like he wasn't like, and I I wasn't to knock you by saying, like, I wish sometimes I didn't.
15:14
SPEAKER_01: Like, we all use that term.
15:15
SPEAKER_01: I like wish, but sometimes if you can switch the word wish, like, I'm not gonna do that anymore.
15:20
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna do this.
15:21
SPEAKER_01: Like, when I do that, I get way better at it.
15:25
SPEAKER_01: When I wish for things, takes way longer for it to happen.
15:28
SPEAKER_01: Because sometimes wishes don't come true.
15:30
SPEAKER_01: But like, but knowing you're gonna do it, that's that's usually like I like I I like if I look back at my life when I was in Tallahassee and I was like, I wish one day I would make it to I wish I could get to Nashville.
15:41
SPEAKER_01: Like, that was a different conversation, that'd be a different conversation than myself with myself than when I called my parents and was like, I'm hey guys, like you're probably not expecting this, but I'm going to Nashville.
15:52
SPEAKER_01: And I think that gets back to the whole granddad living life, it's given to you.
15:57
SPEAKER_01: What are you gonna do with it?
15:58
SPEAKER_01: Like, I look back on that part of my life too, and I'm like, I took the initiative on something I could have wished upon, but I just did it.
16:06
SPEAKER_01: And by doing it is what opened up Pandora's box.
16:10
SPEAKER_01: Wishing doesn't anyway.
16:12
SPEAKER_01: Getting back to that, I just think that that's something cool to think about.
16:15
SPEAKER_03: I it it is cool that you said that because well it's dude, I appreciate it, honestly.
16:23
SPEAKER_03: Now that we're just bros, uh yeah, I think it's easier to like have these negative like wish like I wish or like um we I don't know, like if a bunch of things went wrong in life, it's like my life's been so hard lately, and the more you say my life so hard, the harder life gets.
16:45
SPEAKER_03: Versus like, even if I didn't feel a certain way and I started to say, like, I'm great, I'm great, I'm great.
16:52
SPEAKER_03: Like eventually you start to kind of believe it.
16:55
SPEAKER_03: I watched this Tony Robbins thing once, and he and he basically remembers a point like you were just saying, where he removed a word from his vocabulary.
17:05
SPEAKER_03: I don't remember what it was, but it was one of those self-deprecating words, and he's like, I'm never gonna say like this to myself again.
17:13
SPEAKER_03: And he drew a line in the sand, and for him, it was just like even if he feels that way, I'm never gonna like say that over myself.
17:23
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, which I think is what you're kind of saying too, with the wish thing.
17:27
SPEAKER_03: I'm not gonna like wish things over myself.
17:29
SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna do it, take action.
17:32
SPEAKER_01: And even if it's not a feeling that I feel yet, I'm not gonna Well, like getting back to my friend, you know, I could have wished that one day magically we became friends again.
17:41
SPEAKER_01: I could have wished that one day he came to me and he said sorry, you know?
17:47
SPEAKER_01: Or you pull out.
17:49
SPEAKER_01: You have the beautiful gift of the sun coming up one morning, you have the gift of health, you have the gift of I, you know, the gift of a car that works that I'm driving down the road.
18:00
SPEAKER_01: Like nothing's wrong.
18:02
SPEAKER_01: But there it there he was.
18:03
SPEAKER_01: There was that thing, and I could have passed by it that day too.
18:06
SPEAKER_01: I could have passed by him again and been pissed for the next two hours about why he why this happened.
18:12
SPEAKER_01: But for some reason, in me, and maybe it was me finally accepting him talking to me, like, dude, pull the car over.
18:19
SPEAKER_01: Go in this today.
18:20
SPEAKER_01: And I did.
18:21
SPEAKER_01: I was just like, I don't even know what happened.
18:22
SPEAKER_01: Just like I like, I wasn't, it was like less time for me to think, should I, should I not?
18:26
SPEAKER_01: Should I like just instinctively, I just went poof and pulled over and I got out and I looked back at that day and I'm like, I'm so glad I did that.
18:34
SPEAKER_01: Like it was like it was removing, it removed thousands of pounds of a weighted blanket that felt like it was on top of me.
18:42
SPEAKER_01: And uh I'm sure it felt good for him too, you know?
18:44
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
18:45
SPEAKER_01: And it doesn't mean like we haven't, we're not like we haven't got back to like we're not like barbecuing and stuff together, but like it felt good to like to take the gift that you know our greater faith has and has given us to live this life, and it felt good to make the most of it that day, then taking it the opposite direction and and thinking that I, you know, why is this happening to me?
19:09
SPEAKER_01: Like I you're we're in charge of our day.
19:11
SPEAKER_01: Make it the most you want.
19:13
SPEAKER_03: I'm curious about in your career, like there's this huge hockey stick upswing when fame happens.
19:21
SPEAKER_03: And like you had this dream came to Nashville and you you took action and came, and then you've had all the success.
19:31
SPEAKER_03: Did you we talked about enjoying enjoying the enjoying life.
19:37
SPEAKER_03: Was it enjoyable for you or was it always wanting more?
19:44
SPEAKER_03: I don't want any more, I don't need anything more.
19:47
SPEAKER_03: I remember watching some award show one year and you were outside in front of us it was uh Bridgestone and there was like beach balls and like they were going around.
19:56
SPEAKER_03: It's back when you had long hair.
19:59
SPEAKER_03: And um like in though in those seasons of your life, were you just very present in those moments?
20:05
SPEAKER_03: Or did you always did you feel because I talked to some folks on this podcast that feel like they get to a mountaintop and then they just see a higher one?
20:17
SPEAKER_01: I'm 44 now.
20:19
SPEAKER_01: So when I was 34 10 years ago, it was right about uh at 30 Barefoot Blue Jean Knight came out.
20:26
SPEAKER_01: Okay, I got my record deal at 23.
20:28
SPEAKER_01: So seven years into my career, I had a song that people finally like were like, I know who this guy is.
20:33
SPEAKER_01: You know, I had songs before that were hits, but they weren't like they weren't um like massive, and that song kind of changed my life, and all of a sudden I became the beach guy, like like seriously, like even now, like I'll play a show with my boots on, people are like, Why do you have shoes on?
20:51
SPEAKER_01: You know, and like because I felt like wearing them today.
20:53
SPEAKER_01: But people all of a sudden started establishing me as like the barefoot guy that had long hair, and um at that point, like it was cool that I had had some success, but I'd already felt like when I moved to Nashville, I was successful.
21:07
SPEAKER_01: Like, I felt like I was successful when I was on a bar stool in Tallahassee and people were giving me money and free beer.
21:13
SPEAKER_01: Like that I felt just as much as a rock star then as I feel right now.
21:18
SPEAKER_01: There's never been a time in my life where I've been like, holy shit, I've made it.
21:23
SPEAKER_01: Like, I've just done what I like to do, and I and I set off to do it.
21:29
SPEAKER_01: Uh, and I guess I should feel like I feel bad sometimes in moments where people are like, dude, aren't you more excited about this?
21:40
SPEAKER_01: And uh and I'm like, Yeah, I I'm excited, but like I I wanted to do this.
21:46
SPEAKER_01: Like, I this is it wasn't like I it sounds like a messed up thing to say.
21:50
SPEAKER_01: Like, you're not like I feel guilty.
21:52
SPEAKER_01: My mom always says it's not what you say, it's how you say it.
21:54
SPEAKER_01: So I think sometimes the way I say things gives others the thought that I'm not grateful or I'm not.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: Happy about it.
22:01
SPEAKER_01: Like, I have been more fulfilled through music than and what I've done more than anything else in life.
22:08
SPEAKER_01: Um, but there's also a time that I think it's okay when people are like I got enough of this, I got everything I needed out of this.
22:16
SPEAKER_01: So, like, what's the big deal?
22:18
SPEAKER_01: What's next?
22:18
SPEAKER_01: The whole what's next, there's a bigger mountain to climb.
22:20
SPEAKER_01: Like, where is it?
22:21
SPEAKER_01: Like, so my life's always been like, I don't know what's next, but what's next usually comes from what my heart tells me it is.
22:30
SPEAKER_01: Like, it's not my brain telling me what it is.
22:32
SPEAKER_01: It's like my heart leads me to things that I should be doing, and then my brain tells me whether or not it's the right thing or not.
22:41
SPEAKER_01: Like, but the heart is what leads, and uh, so that answer of like what's next, or did I feel like it was like all everything it was meant to be?
22:50
SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm still figuring that out.
22:52
SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't yeah, I've just never put like the only reason I moved to Nashville, I think, in the first place was because I just wanted to be with other people that understood the same thing I did.
23:04
SPEAKER_01: Like in college, I was a guy who wanted to play music, I wanted to wanted people to like it, but I got tired of playing The Joker in Sweet Home, Alabama.
23:12
SPEAKER_01: I want to play my own music, so I'm like, I can get to Nashville and play with people that do want to do the same thing I do.
23:17
SPEAKER_01: I won't feel like an outcast there.
23:18
SPEAKER_01: And that's and once I got here, I was here and I felt successful.
23:22
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, damn, this is it.
23:24
SPEAKER_01: And I got a record deal, and I was like, oh, this is cool too.
23:26
SPEAKER_01: But it wasn't like the record deal was didn't feel any cooler or better than just getting to Nashville did.
23:32
SPEAKER_01: Like all those things feel the same to me.
23:34
SPEAKER_01: They they're just things that you accomplish.
23:36
SPEAKER_01: They're not like if you walk around my house, I would challenge anyone to see like I've had like lots of success, but like you won't see like J Gowen plaques on the wall.
23:48
SPEAKER_01: I don't give a shit about that.
23:50
SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't like you'll see tons of pictures though that I've taken of of like my friends and my family, the cool black and whites, like because those are the on the Leica?
24:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, uh yeah.
24:02
SPEAKER_01: And those are the those are the things that to me are like where I stop amongst walking through my house and I'll stop and be like, whoa, that was a cool picture from stagecoach and whatever, you know.
24:16
SPEAKER_01: But I'm not like gonna stop by a plaque that says there was so many sales or streams or whatever.
24:23
SPEAKER_01: Like those isn't it does it because it doesn't matter.
24:25
SPEAKER_01: No one cares, like other than yourself, no one's it's self-engrandizing in a way.
24:31
SPEAKER_03: I could see why people would do it, but I also get why you wouldn't do it.
24:33
SPEAKER_03: John Mayer doesn't do it, he's talked about it, and um I wouldn't I don't think I would do it either, because it's not defining who you are.
24:43
SPEAKER_01: I have a 2009 top memale vocalist award for the Academy of Country Music.
24:51
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
24:52
SPEAKER_01: And every now and then like I see it like sitting down below like this little shelf in my like barn and uh it's got dust on it.
25:01
SPEAKER_01: It's like and I and I think about like in that moment, like it was I guess it was cool, you know, to win that.
25:09
SPEAKER_01: But like I wanted at the same time that I was talking to m male vocalists, Zach Brown band was the the top new group, and uh perfect story.
25:29
SPEAKER_01: Julianne Huff was the top new female vocalist, and then they voted on who was the top new artist for that year for the ACM Award, and you know who won?
25:42
SPEAKER_01: Julianne Huff.
25:44
SPEAKER_01: My point is Zach Brown's playing the sphere Jake's doing what Jake's doing, whatever, but like what's Julianne Huff doing?
25:52
SPEAKER_01: Like, is she in country music?
25:53
SPEAKER_01: Is she like is she no, it's not, and it's not to knock her, whatever she was at that time, but like does that define like was her winning the top new artist of that year in 2009 for the Academy of Country Music Awards like define country music?
26:09
SPEAKER_01: Does it like do people look back on that and go like, man, I remember the year, like no, like there's the same reason like when I look at that trophy, like it doesn't no disrespect to the Academy or anything like that, but like it doesn't matter.
26:26
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't like make you any like win that award that Julianne Huff won that year has not furthered her country music career, nor has it, you know, maybe furthered others.
26:38
SPEAKER_01: I don't know that means other than like the idea that there's always something bigger and better that's gonna make your life better by winning that award or getting that number one song or whatever.
26:48
SPEAKER_01: Your happiness is just gonna come from you and what you find to like makes you happy.
26:55
SPEAKER_01: And certain people put their happiness in places that like it's never gonna be fulfilling.
27:00
SPEAKER_01: So I I will say that like most of my guys that I work with and stuff, they I'm they'll tell you, like, I'm I can sound unhappy a lot of times.
27:08
SPEAKER_01: My unhappiness is just usually stems from frustration of like just things not not happening fast enough.
27:15
SPEAKER_01: It's more like impatience than an unhappiness.
27:18
SPEAKER_03: I'm pretty so you like speed because you'll get an idea and you'll be like, let's go.
27:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
27:24
SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm uh let's do it now.
27:27
SPEAKER_01: Like I'm not waiting, I don't like to plan things.
27:29
SPEAKER_01: People are always like, bro, you should have told me you were gonna do this.
27:31
SPEAKER_01: I was like, I didn't even know I was gonna do this like a week ago.
27:34
SPEAKER_01: So don't be offended.
27:36
SPEAKER_03: I just got not too long ago, I got diagnosed with adult ADHD, and it explains a lot because I didn't graduate high school and I did terrible in school.
27:44
SPEAKER_03: But uh is that something do you know if you have ADHD or not?
27:49
SPEAKER_03: Because one of the things I found out about it is like people with it, it might be like unorganized or whatever, and their kitchen is dirty, but like if there's something that they get an idea about and they go, they just go full flex 100%.
28:02
SPEAKER_01: I've never been, I don't never cared to go get diagnosed.
28:06
SPEAKER_01: I mean, yeah, I'd probably figure I am, but I don't need somebody to tell me that I am.
28:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
28:10
SPEAKER_01: Like what's it gonna do?
28:11
SPEAKER_03: We're gonna give you some medicine and yeah, they were well, no, man.
28:15
SPEAKER_03: They were talking about the traits of the those folks and how successful they are, and how many people that are successful have that, and that's one of the reasons for their ability to do things.
28:25
SPEAKER_03: But what's success?
28:26
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, what is it?
28:28
SPEAKER_03: I don't know, but I think the world defines it as fame, I think it defines it as money, I think it defines it as notoriety, and it's optics, it's all just optics.
28:38
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but I I But for me, for my my definition of success, it would be that I am healthy, that I can be with my family, and that we could pay our bills, and that we can do quality things together, and I can be with the people that I love.
28:56
SPEAKER_03: That's success, that I can raise my three-year-old son to be a good man, you know, that I can be a good dad.
29:03
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
29:04
SPEAKER_03: Those are success for me.
29:06
SPEAKER_03: But I also struggle with the outside thing that you said you don't struggle with, which is the um like I need to reach this point, or I need to get this many subscribers on the thing.
29:18
SPEAKER_03: And when that happens, then I'll feel this way.
29:20
SPEAKER_03: And so I also struggle with that side, you know, it's kind of a juxtaposing definition.
29:27
SPEAKER_01: Makes sense.
29:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I think that's why my granddad said, like, don't be bitter about things, like just be grateful for the opportunities you do have, because there's been times I've been bitter, like that ACM thing I'm talking about, like won the top new male vocalist in 2009.
29:40
SPEAKER_01: I've had 10 number one songs, but I've never in my life been on the ACM awards.
29:45
SPEAKER_01: I've never performed on the awards, I've never performed on the CMA awards.
29:49
SPEAKER_01: Never, ever, once.
29:52
SPEAKER_01: And you know, they were like, Well, you gotta get nominated.
29:55
SPEAKER_01: Because if you're nominated, they'll let you play on the show.
29:57
SPEAKER_01: Well, I've been nominated for both shows.
30:01
SPEAKER_01: Never played on the show.
30:02
SPEAKER_01: They just fucking moved the goalpost.
30:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah and uh and so those kind of things, if you're an artist that's done, I mean, it's not just like doing the work as far as being a songwriter or an artist or touring and being on a bus and sleeping on it for 20 years, driving on the road.
30:18
SPEAKER_01: Like for me, it wasn't like I don't want the I didn't want to be on the stage because I wanted the attention.
30:24
SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't need any more attention.
30:26
SPEAKER_01: I wanted to be on the stage because I wanted to feel like the town, like like finally said, like, like, welcome to the club, welcome to the party, you know.
30:36
SPEAKER_01: When you constantly feel like you're outside of it, or uh you can find yourself being bitter about it, but like I finally got to the point where I was like, none of this, I haven't like like my friend, like uh I've got lots of friends, I don't even need to name them, but like great other artists that I look at too, and I'm like, oh, they're getting shafted too.
30:53
SPEAKER_01: Like, but they don't care, like they're still making money, they're making it, and that's that bitterness you just have to release.
30:58
SPEAKER_01: Like, I realized for too long I kept holding on to it, and it affected the people around me, and it affected myself.
31:03
SPEAKER_03: It affects so was it the comparison thing?
31:07
SPEAKER_03: Like, is that what people struggle with?
31:10
SPEAKER_03: You think most?
31:12
SPEAKER_01: When you say people, you mean others or meaning you were talking about your buddies, like they got shafted, but they're making money, but they're like like not getting the when I say shafted, I just mean like it's it's just like there's obvious reasons people should be acknowledged for the things that they're doing on a great level within the industry, within the industry, and then like then they don't.
31:32
SPEAKER_01: And like, I'm not talking me, I'm talking like I haven't been on any of these award shows or anything in a couple of years, like I haven't even gone to them.
31:39
SPEAKER_01: But I see others that are going to them that are nominated that should win easily that aren't.
31:44
SPEAKER_01: Um and it's just it's it's something that that person could probably be like, What the hell, man?
31:50
SPEAKER_01: Why am I or their team or anything?
31:53
SPEAKER_01: But when you realize the grand scheme of things, like they're still winning, they're still doing the winning, meaning the big game, like that's just a night on TV that quite frankly, a few few weeks later, people you know don't even remember.
32:06
SPEAKER_01: And uh, so I think the people that uh have had have done a good job at like just not caring about that kind of stuff and doing like those are those seem to be the happiest, you know, those or the ones that are winning.
32:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
32:23
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33:03
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, the Will and Nelsons of the world, bad attitude, or the Vince Gill thing.
33:07
SPEAKER_03: Like Vin, when I first moved here, I got to know him and Vince is the best.
33:12
SPEAKER_03: He is, dude.
33:13
SPEAKER_03: He's like I learned in my career that I could release a record that I thought was awesome, but I couldn't control if it was gonna be a number one, if it was gonna have a number one.
33:24
SPEAKER_03: But I find something interesting in talking to you that that those things at the highs or the lows, you there's almost a neutrality um line where you're like this at the top of whatever mountain or stadium or wherever the biggest thing you ever played was, or the smallest place where you ever played and you said, I'm winning, you were winning here, and you were winning here.
33:52
SPEAKER_03: And when you were winning in both of those places, it seems like your emotional EQ from what I'm hearing is kind of like the same.
34:02
SPEAKER_01: Is that well pretty accurate?
34:05
SPEAKER_01: Like, I know you said you can't control the outcome, like that's what Vince Gills said.
34:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
34:10
SPEAKER_01: I mean, maybe in music, whatever, but like I feel like you kind of can.
34:13
SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm not I'm respectfully disagreeing with Vince because he's like the greatest of all time when it comes to not just being a paid, you know, patriarch for country music and and someone that you can really model yourself after as far as like uh like kindness and and and he's really that way.
34:32
SPEAKER_01: Um the way I've always drifted is I guess the best way I could put this is this past year I played I played golf too.
34:41
SPEAKER_01: So I I played this late Tahoe.
34:42
SPEAKER_03: You're a big golfer, right?
34:44
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I grew up in Northern California, by the way.
34:46
SPEAKER_03: I'm an hour from Tahoe.
34:48
SPEAKER_01: All right.
34:48
SPEAKER_01: Well, so Tahoe the last few years, I've been lucky enough to get that invite.
34:51
SPEAKER_01: And this year, um, it was funny.
34:54
SPEAKER_01: Like first couple years, I wanted to do well is my first time out there.
34:58
SPEAKER_01: My best friend Marty has won it a couple times, and we grew up playing together, and I used to we'd battle it out as kids and I'd beat him, he beat me.
35:04
SPEAKER_01: So like I knew I knew that I was good enough to go out there and play.
35:07
SPEAKER_01: Um, first couple years I played okay, finished like top 10.
35:11
SPEAKER_01: And this year, um, the last day, I was leading it, I was in the lead.
35:15
SPEAKER_01: And so, therefore, like getting back to like it was up to me.
35:19
SPEAKER_01: Whatever I was doing in that moment, I granted it's different than music, but like it was up to me.
35:24
SPEAKER_01: And in that mindset, why I was leading this year was I didn't care.
35:30
SPEAKER_01: That sounds so weird to think, right?
35:32
SPEAKER_01: Like the first two years I cared so much, and I didn't, I did I could not make it happen.
35:37
SPEAKER_01: But getting back to like the Vince thing, like once I let go this year and was like, I'm good enough in my mind.
35:42
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I'm good enough to be here, I'm good enough to beat every one of these guys out here.
35:47
SPEAKER_01: I just got to go do it and let it happen.
35:49
SPEAKER_01: And I did like I was letting it happen, and I was all of a sudden, my my caddy looked at me and goes, Dude, you're leading, you're you're gonna you can win this tournament.
35:57
SPEAKER_01: And I said, Why did you tell me that?
35:59
SPEAKER_01: Why did you just tell me that?
36:01
SPEAKER_01: And uh, and so when he told me that, I got all up in my head, and I tried to start like for the next like holes, I was trying to guide my golf game.
36:12
SPEAKER_01: No different than like if you're trying to guide your music career instead of just playing it, yeah, just believing you're good enough to do it, just letting it live.
36:22
SPEAKER_01: Uh, I find that I I live way better in letting things happen than I do when I'm trying to like trying to to micromanage it.
36:32
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I learned a lot this year at the top of that.
36:34
SPEAKER_01: I I use that as a related.
36:36
SPEAKER_03: So, what happened on the I finished third.
36:37
SPEAKER_01: I finished third.
36:38
SPEAKER_01: And because you got in your head from knowing that you're made some mistakes because I started getting in my head thinking that oh, I do have a chance.
36:45
SPEAKER_01: Oh man, I better start dialing this in.
36:47
SPEAKER_01: Let's play more careful.
36:48
SPEAKER_01: Let's not let's let's in and then when you start overthinking things is when things become overthought.
36:54
SPEAKER_03: So when you'll see a like a dude miss a two-foot putt and like some high pressure.
37:00
SPEAKER_03: He was overthinking it.
37:01
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, US open thing.
37:03
SPEAKER_01: Because he's that's that's overthinking.
37:04
SPEAKER_01: He closes his eyes and make that same putt a hundred times in a row.
37:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
37:08
SPEAKER_01: But like when you think about you let your mind, there's a book I read called Golf's Not a Game of Perfect.
37:13
SPEAKER_01: I think it relates a lot to life, but he spoke about if you put a two by four on the ground and you ask every guy, every person in the surrounding area, a hundred people around here to walk across that two by four that's laying on the ground, 10 foot, everybody'd be like, No problem.
37:27
SPEAKER_01: Take the same two by four and put it 20 feet in the air and tell people to walk across it.
37:32
SPEAKER_01: And a lot of like people would be like, No way, I'm not because they're because their thought is I'm gonna fall, but you're not, it's the same two by four you just walked on, but it's just 20 feet in the air now.
37:41
SPEAKER_01: But the power of the mind can make you feel off balance, right?
37:46
SPEAKER_01: And so getting back to everything we've talked about today, it's like not wishing things, not whatever, like believing that this can happen and just doing it.
37:55
SPEAKER_01: And when I go back to the most successful parts of my life, whether it's moving to Nashville, whatever, I just believed that it would happen.
38:01
SPEAKER_01: And those times that I believed and fully believed, shit happened.
38:05
SPEAKER_01: And the times that I was like, oh no, like I can win this tournament, I'm worried now.
38:10
SPEAKER_01: Like, how do I do it?
38:11
SPEAKER_01: Is when it all came crashing down.
38:13
SPEAKER_01: So I just think we gotta how what are we talking about right now?
38:17
SPEAKER_01: How do we get all around this?
38:19
SPEAKER_03: Belief is when things happen.
38:21
SPEAKER_03: It is.
38:22
SPEAKER_03: These are the things that like these are my curiosities, you know.
38:26
SPEAKER_03: Because the I wish I could go back and talk to the younger me sometimes.
38:32
SPEAKER_03: Because uh and that's the ethos of this podcast as well, is like, what's the advice that I would have given a younger me?
38:38
SPEAKER_03: There's a lot of principles I take out of conversations like this that I think help other people and just hearing us talk about it, you know?
38:46
SPEAKER_01: I think it's important too, though, to do the reverse.
38:49
SPEAKER_01: I think it's important to have your younger self remind your older self of who you were then, too, though.
38:55
SPEAKER_01: Because everybody talks about like, what would everyone always asks that question?
38:58
SPEAKER_01: What would you tell your younger self?
38:59
SPEAKER_01: Dude, there's days I wish my younger self would smack me across the face as a 44-year-old guy and be like, what are you doing, dude?
39:07
SPEAKER_01: Like, you're not old.
39:09
SPEAKER_01: You're you are good.
39:12
SPEAKER_01: You moved here.
39:13
SPEAKER_01: Remember, I told you to move here when you probably shouldn't have, but you just believed you could, and that's why shit happened.
39:18
SPEAKER_01: So what are you doing now, that 44-year-old worrying about stuff not happening?
39:23
SPEAKER_01: Like, that's why it's not happening because you're worried about it.
39:26
SPEAKER_01: That's what my younger self would tell me.
39:28
SPEAKER_01: Like, because as you get older, you start protecting.
39:31
SPEAKER_01: You have more things.
39:32
SPEAKER_01: I didn't have kids when I was 23 and moved up here.
39:35
SPEAKER_01: I didn't have, you know, people to take care of and bills to pay and all that.
39:39
SPEAKER_01: I all I had to take care of was me.
39:41
SPEAKER_01: So you it's a little easier to believe in yourself.
39:43
SPEAKER_01: You don't have those things, so it's obvious as you get older to have responsibilities.
39:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
39:47
SPEAKER_01: But you definitely need your younger self to remind you sometimes just as much as you need your older self to give your younger for self uh advice.
39:54
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
39:55
SPEAKER_01: Does that make sense?
39:56
SPEAKER_03: I love that inverse.
39:58
SPEAKER_03: That's something um what's his name?
40:03
SPEAKER_03: Uh Amazon owner.
40:05
SPEAKER_03: Why can't I think about it?
40:06
SPEAKER_01: Bezos.
40:06
SPEAKER_03: Bezos, Jeff Bezos said people always ask me what's gonna happen in the next 10 years, but they ask me, they never ask me what's not gonna change in the next 10 years.
40:15
SPEAKER_03: They always ask me what's gonna change, not what's not gonna change.
40:19
SPEAKER_03: And it's like that inverse thing, you just pulled on me, and now I'm gonna have to think about that.
40:23
SPEAKER_03: Because that's a great, great question.
40:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because I'm sure there's amazing parts of your life when you were 20 to 22 years old that you wish you kind of still had that tenacity that you don't have now.
40:34
SPEAKER_01: And that's part of you needs that younger self to tell you, like, it's still in you.
40:38
SPEAKER_01: You just you've shoved it back in the back closet.
40:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, go pull it out.
40:41
SPEAKER_01: We had a place called vinyl, uh, vinyl fever that sold sold records, and you could trade stuff in, you know, and like you could trade some CDs in and get some new ones.
40:52
SPEAKER_01: And I didn't have any money in college, so when Napster hit, like everyone hates on Napster and Limewire and all that, but that was what changed my musical journey was oh my god, like I now can download an entire sorry, Merle, but thanks for the music.
41:10
SPEAKER_01: Like, I mean, I remember downloading Merle Haggard's entire catalog and listening to it, and I'd never heard Merle Haggard, like I'd never heard songs from Merle Haggard that I got to hear all of a sudden in an instant that changed my path of like my my career.
41:25
SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, the like some of the only old stuff that I'd heard was like when my dad I was I could take the boat fishing, and then my dad would let me borrow his truck.
41:35
SPEAKER_01: And I remember the first time I opened up my dad's console and he had like a Keith Whitley album in there, and he had this old Vern Gosden super hits album.
41:43
SPEAKER_01: And uh I remember putting Vern Gosden on for the first time when I was like 14, 15.
41:49
SPEAKER_01: I was like, this dude's voice is amazing, and I always had a low voice, so like I loved singing along with him, and that's what got me into all those old songs.
41:57
SPEAKER_03: I love that.
41:59
SPEAKER_03: You know that good-hearted woman in love with a good timing man?
42:02
SPEAKER_03: Wayland?
42:03
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that song that always has been uh kind of a cornerstone for me of the feel that I love musically.
42:12
SPEAKER_03: Um, that like I don't know what you would describe that, that like one five kind of like bass thing, you know?
42:20
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
42:21
SPEAKER_01: Um it's like Mamas Don't Let Your Babies Grow to Be Cows.
42:23
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, exactly.
42:25
SPEAKER_03: And even um Glenn Campbell had a song.
42:28
SPEAKER_03: What was the famous one?
42:30
SPEAKER_03: About the couch.
42:31
SPEAKER_03: General in my mind.
42:32
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, general.
42:34
SPEAKER_01: About the couch.
42:35
SPEAKER_01: That's interesting.
42:36
SPEAKER_01: That entire song, that's that's the part you like the song that had the thing about the couch and the sleeping bag behind it.
42:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, such a visual.
42:44
SPEAKER_01: I know it's really interesting.
42:45
SPEAKER_01: It's cool to hear how people reference songs.
42:48
SPEAKER_01: Like that was your like Yeah.
42:50
SPEAKER_03: You went out to LA during the fires, the Palisades.
42:53
SPEAKER_03: I remember being that I was me and Haley were there.
42:56
SPEAKER_03: What was the process of making that record like?
43:00
SPEAKER_03: But more than that, what was the most special part about it for you?
43:04
SPEAKER_01: We all need people to believe in us.
43:06
SPEAKER_01: Like, you can't, I don't care who you are, like I'm a confident guy.
43:09
SPEAKER_01: Most people would tell you that.
43:10
SPEAKER_01: But I'm also like, I'm also a human.
43:13
SPEAKER_01: I'm also like, when I don't feel like people are believing in what I'm doing, like, then I don't feel like I have like some fuel in my tank that I need.
43:22
SPEAKER_01: But when you have someone that comes up and goes, dude, like I don't care like what anyone else thinks.
43:28
SPEAKER_01: Like, I think you could do this.
43:30
SPEAKER_01: Here's some gasoline to your tank.
43:32
SPEAKER_01: Let's go put the pedal to the metal.
43:34
SPEAKER_01: And that was what felt cool about making that record with Shooter.
43:37
SPEAKER_03: And there was uh it was you and like five guys, right?
43:40
SPEAKER_03: Well, it was me and his guys, like shooter.
43:42
SPEAKER_03: I didn't even know his guys.
43:43
SPEAKER_01: I literally brought out there were some songs, my buddy Kendall Marvel, who's an incredible songwriter, uh, a friend of mine who I also met through Jimmy Richie, thank God.
43:52
SPEAKER_01: Ah, Jimmy, yeah, come on.
43:54
SPEAKER_01: Um, but Kendall just said to me too, he believed in me.
43:57
SPEAKER_01: I called Kendall, I was like, dude, would you go to LA with me?
44:00
SPEAKER_01: Make a record with Shooter Jennings and he was like, Hell yeah.
44:02
SPEAKER_01: And uh he has his own artistry going on, he has his own songwriting life going on.
44:08
SPEAKER_01: Like he took his little family, daughters, grandkids, and Kendall took time out of his life to go to LA and believe in me and told everyone.
44:18
SPEAKER_01: It wasn't even about believing in me.
44:20
SPEAKER_01: He was telling people, but Kendall Marvel's going around Nashville telling the cool kids, the cool, you know, the cool people he makes records with that the record that Jake's making is badass.
44:31
SPEAKER_01: And like I don't think he knows like what that what that means to me.
44:39
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
44:40
SPEAKER_03: It's cool.
44:41
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, man.
44:42
SPEAKER_03: The power of belief is uh I I run on the insecurity side of things and need someone to like reassure me that hey uh you're you're good at whatever, because that inner critical just be loud sometimes for me.
44:59
SPEAKER_03: And it comes from probably childhood being performance-based on different things where you're judged on your performance, therefore, if you're not performing well, then your identity's tied to it, and if you're not performing well, then you're a failure.
45:16
SPEAKER_03: And it's very binary.
45:18
SPEAKER_03: It's like you either are doing great or you're stuck.
45:21
SPEAKER_03: And uh when I have people, or even I go back to some of the conversations or Vince talking about me, or this guitar competition that I was a finalist in.
45:32
SPEAKER_03: Um, those things that I'll remind myself of like someone who believed in me when I didn't believe in myself because I feel like it's so hard.
45:42
SPEAKER_03: I can't imagine being told there were no good songs on your record.
45:47
SPEAKER_01: But especially from people that helped you curate it.
45:51
SPEAKER_01: That's the best part.
45:53
SPEAKER_03: Is that is that just the music business?
45:55
SPEAKER_01: Oh man, it's just like it it's it wasn't that there weren't good songs on it, man.
46:00
SPEAKER_01: It was just they didn't have the balls to tell me they just didn't have the bandwidth at the time to to put into my me.
46:06
SPEAKER_01: They like as they were putting into the others that they managed at the label, they had more of a return business on.
46:12
SPEAKER_01: Like it just came down to business.
46:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
46:14
SPEAKER_01: Because at the end of the day, uh and Seth and Joey and all the guys at Big Loud, they know this.
46:21
SPEAKER_01: Like, we all have a mutual, we've done a lot, we did a lot for each other.
46:23
SPEAKER_01: Like, we helped, they helped raise my bar and my my persona as a musician more than I could have ever dreamed of.
46:31
SPEAKER_01: Um, and at the same time, too, I think Joey would tell you that like I fought for him.
46:36
SPEAKER_01: Like, I remember walking in to Tony Brown, uh, who's obviously iconic producer, Vince Gill, Steve Earl, you name it, right?
46:46
SPEAKER_01: Uh played with Elvis, Country Music Hall of Famer.
46:50
SPEAKER_01: Um I literally I remember going and telling Tony Brown, hey man, I hope you don't mind.
46:55
SPEAKER_01: I love these songs we've cut.
46:57
SPEAKER_01: Uh, but is it cool if I get this guy that produced Nickelback to produce my country album?
47:02
SPEAKER_01: And I'll never forget that's why I love Tony Brown.
47:06
SPEAKER_01: And that's why I think there's people like that in this town that, you know, they're great at what they do, is because they believe in artists when they see an artist believing in what they're doing.
47:15
SPEAKER_01: And Tony said to me without hesitation, Jake, I think that's a cool idea.
47:19
SPEAKER_01: And if you believe in that, I can't wait to hear what you guys do.
47:22
SPEAKER_01: I was like, damn, I was scared to tell Tony Brown that because I thought he was gonna be like, Do you realize you're talking to Tony Brown?
47:28
SPEAKER_01: Right?
47:29
SPEAKER_01: But he didn't, and that's what makes Tony Brown great is Tony Brown has always done what's he thinks best for that artist.
47:36
SPEAKER_01: If that artist believes that that's what's best for them, Tony Brown just helps them get to that point.
47:41
SPEAKER_01: Like he made Steve Rill sound like Steve Earl, he makes Vince Gill sound like Vince Gill.
47:44
SPEAKER_01: They don't all sound the same.
47:45
SPEAKER_01: Like, if you look at all the stuff Tony Brown's done, it's all different, but it's because he believed in that artist.
47:49
SPEAKER_01: And I heard Vince Gill say that at the Hall of Fame induction for him.
47:53
SPEAKER_01: So, anyways, I wouldn't be where I am without the belief of Seth and Joey and and and uh you know obviously Craig Wiseman and that whole crew over there, they changed my life.
48:06
SPEAKER_01: And I still talk to like Stacy and the whole crew over the promo team over there.
48:10
SPEAKER_01: That I mean, they got me five number ones in a row, or four.
48:14
SPEAKER_01: Felt like down to the honky tonk with this big number one, but I only went to number five.
48:18
SPEAKER_03: But it goes to show you felt like a number one.
48:20
SPEAKER_03: It was a great song.
48:20
SPEAKER_01: This is the biggest song like I play in my set, but it goes to show you too that like we all put emphasis on songs hitting number one.
48:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and if they don't, like you can get down on yourself or think, why didn't it happen?
48:30
SPEAKER_01: But like they still they they're still slapping out on the road, like there's the people love it.
48:35
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
48:36
SPEAKER_03: The America's the ultimate AR.
48:39
SPEAKER_03: I think that's a Craig Wiseman quote.
48:44
SPEAKER_03: He's got a lot of them.
48:44
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, is have you and Keith been together for a long time?
48:48
SPEAKER_03: I'm just curious.
48:49
SPEAKER_03: I can cut this out.
48:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, no.
48:50
SPEAKER_01: Keith, I met Keith when I got a record deal at RCA, so 22 years ago.
48:54
SPEAKER_01: How important is like I'm curious about 21 years ago.
48:58
SPEAKER_03: 21 years ago?
49:00
SPEAKER_01: Well, 2005, 2026 right now.
49:03
SPEAKER_01: You do the math.
49:04
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
49:05
SPEAKER_03: Dude, so a manager, like I'm curious about the manager artist relationship when on the long term.
49:11
SPEAKER_01: Well, Keith was my promo guy at RCA Records for 13 or 14 years.
49:17
SPEAKER_01: So I was managed by Clint Hyam and Dale Morris, and I was like uh the Kenny Chesney like underling for a long time, which thank God because Kenny.
49:26
SPEAKER_03: You were out with Dirk's, right?
49:28
SPEAKER_03: Dirks can't be able to do that.
49:29
SPEAKER_01: The first tour I ever went out on was with uh Kenny Chesney and Dirk Spentley, and then um I quickly went out with uh after that, I was out with like Brooks and Dunn, Alan Jackson, you know, Little Big Towns, Sugarland, Carrie Underwood, Brad Paisley.
49:46
SPEAKER_01: I was like out, it seemed like I was out with everybody in those early years.
49:49
SPEAKER_01: Um but uh I was managed by by Clint and those guys who managed Alabama, who were heroes of Mile Randy Owen.
49:57
SPEAKER_01: And um, and so it was like 13, 14 years there with Joe, like uh Joe Galani and and and Renee Bell signing over at RCA, and that's when I met Keith, uh, who was my promo guy.
50:08
SPEAKER_01: And then when it was time, like the chapter just hit in life, where it was time to uh go my separate ways from Clinton and Hyam or Clinton Dale Morris and those guys, which I really I still love them too.
50:19
SPEAKER_01: Um I asked Keith, I was like, Hey, why don't you just manage me?
50:23
SPEAKER_01: You've always been my like in my corner and you believe in me.
50:26
SPEAKER_01: Uh and he said, I'll leave, I'll leave my desk job today.
50:29
SPEAKER_01: And he did.
50:30
SPEAKER_01: He walked in, quit his job after 20 something years at RCA, just quit and said, I believe in this guy.
50:37
SPEAKER_01: And uh this is pretty awesome, man.
50:39
SPEAKER_01: That's what like and again, like goes back to people believing in you.
50:42
SPEAKER_01: Like it's made me feel incredible.
50:44
SPEAKER_01: There's been times obviously you work with anybody for long enough times, like it's not always, especially in a business where you want what's best for yourself, but you're trying to do it as a partnership, like it's not always easy, but it goes back to the belief, like in a time where like certain people maybe weren't believing in what my belief was and what I where I thought I should be going, uh like he did, you know.
51:06
SPEAKER_01: And so that's and that's what I tend to be uh drawn to.
51:10
SPEAKER_03: So you guys had a prior existing relationship because he was in promo, so you got to know him but uh before he ever became your manager.
51:20
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
51:20
SPEAKER_01: So I actually used to have a lot more conversations with Keith, like sometimes about my life and career at the time, more than I was having conversations with my own management at the time.
51:30
SPEAKER_01: But we're doing things in hand in hand in partnership.
51:33
SPEAKER_01: You know, when you have a record deal on a major label, you're talking to your promo guy a lot about like promotional things you're gonna be doing with radio stations, and so he'd call me a lot and say, Hey Jake, we gotta go to San Antonio and go do this thing.
51:47
SPEAKER_01: So and he'd explain.
51:48
SPEAKER_01: And then you'd go with it, and I'd be like, Okay, cool.
51:51
SPEAKER_01: And you know, everything that I did like seemed to work out.
51:56
SPEAKER_03: I'm intrigued by those relationships.
51:58
SPEAKER_03: Um, I forget the short guy that managed the eagles.
52:00
SPEAKER_03: What was his name?
52:02
SPEAKER_03: Irving Azol.
52:03
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
52:03
SPEAKER_03: Like his how how big his impact was, you know, in that relationship.
52:09
SPEAKER_03: Um it's cool to hear those stories.
52:11
SPEAKER_03: That you didn't jump around, but y'all stuck it out together.
52:16
SPEAKER_03: If we were both gone tomorrow, if we both died tomorrow, but you could leave one piece of advice to the next generation, what would it be?
52:26
SPEAKER_01: Um probably what my granddad told me.
52:31
SPEAKER_01: You know, just be grateful and you can't be grateful without with bitterness, right?
52:36
SPEAKER_01: Like be grateful for every step along the way and not looking forward to what's next all the time.
52:46
SPEAKER_01: You know?
52:47
SPEAKER_01: Just like be happy for what you have in that moment.
52:51
SPEAKER_01: Um because sometimes we're always worried about what's next when we're not even guaranteed tomorrow.
52:58
SPEAKER_01: So how can you be worried about something or longing for something?
53:02
SPEAKER_01: Like I told this to my friend the other day who's the son of a best friend of mine.
53:07
SPEAKER_01: He's recently getting married, and he's got a little wife, they're getting ready, a little fiance, and they're building a house.
53:15
SPEAKER_01: And I just finished building a house, it took me like three years to build, and during the last three years of building this house, I also was going through like a separation, part of my personal life, and like my daughter not living with me anymore, and all this happening.
53:34
SPEAKER_01: Uh, and I learned a lot during that.
53:36
SPEAKER_01: I learned that what my buddy said to me the other day was, I said, Hey man, uh what do you you know?
53:44
SPEAKER_01: I'm excited for you guys to get married and whatever.
53:47
SPEAKER_01: And he goes, Man, I just want to get this house done.
53:50
SPEAKER_01: I just can't wait to get this house done.
53:52
SPEAKER_01: And when he said that, I go, let me give you a reminder of something that I learned along the way, this this house build, is that I remember going to London last year or whatever it was, and all I could think about was like I didn't want to go, is because I was afraid something was gonna happen to me.
54:09
SPEAKER_01: And I was all I wanted to do was get home to see the finality of this house that I've been building for three years.
54:19
SPEAKER_01: And I kept somehow in my mind telling myself that like if something happened to me, like I'm not gonna be back to see this house that I've built that I've been spending so much of my time, energy, money, everything on.
54:32
SPEAKER_01: And in that moment, it like hit me.
54:34
SPEAKER_01: It was like God shook me.
54:36
SPEAKER_01: It was like, don't you see what you have right now?
54:40
SPEAKER_01: Why are you so concerned with what you will have?
54:44
SPEAKER_01: Like, that's the wrong way to look at life.
54:46
SPEAKER_01: Like, like, why don't you look at the fact that like you're able to go to London, you're able to go play for people that will enjoy you, you're able to have a healthy daughter, and like, why is the one thing you're focusing on that is the house down the road?
54:59
SPEAKER_01: Like, and in that moment, like it started recurring to me that like I gotta start spending more time being excited for the things that are like right here, right now, as opposed to worrying about the things that are gonna happen.
55:12
SPEAKER_01: And uh, that's the advice that I would give to anyone is that like you can find so much more pleasure in things that are right in front of you than you can in the the pleasure that shall come from things that you're longing for.
55:26
SPEAKER_01: And uh that's what I told my buddy the other day.
55:29
SPEAKER_01: I was like, dude, look at the wife or the fiance you have right now, and your health and your 20-something years old building a house.
55:37
SPEAKER_01: Like, like look forward to getting home later today and kissing her on the cheek.
55:42
SPEAKER_01: Like, that's what you should look forward to.
55:43
SPEAKER_01: Don't look forward to he he understood what I was saying, but uh I think it's like you gotta remind yourself that.
55:48
SPEAKER_01: And so that's I'm I'm only saying it out loud because I'm still to this day like trying to remind myself of that.
55:54
SPEAKER_01: Like just stop worrying about the things long term and just handle what's like right here right now.
56:02
SPEAKER_03: I love that, man.
56:04
SPEAKER_03: Don't worry about tomorrow because tomorrow's got enough worries of its own.
56:08
SPEAKER_01: I wrote a song of my friend Bob Regan a long time ago, and I actually just played it a few weeks ago on tour because someone yelled it out, and I haven't played it in like 15 years.
56:16
SPEAKER_01: Somebody's like, play green bananas.
56:18
SPEAKER_01: And I wrote this song called Green Bananas, where it's about you know, I don't buy green bananas, um, I don't play the lottery.
56:26
SPEAKER_01: Right now is pretty much all I got going, and much just fine for me.
56:30
SPEAKER_01: And I don't own an umbrella.
56:32
SPEAKER_01: I guess if it rains, I'm gonna get wet.
56:34
SPEAKER_01: And I definitely don't buy green bananas because I don't plan that far ahead.
56:37
SPEAKER_01: And uh that's always been my kind of life's mantra.
56:41
SPEAKER_01: I think most people would tell you that know me, like I don't really plan things.
56:46
SPEAKER_01: I kind of fly by the seat of my pants.
56:48
SPEAKER_01: I like, and that's been why I think I've been successful is because in those moments I'm not thinking about it, I'm just doing it.
56:55
SPEAKER_01: And uh that's why I say don't don't worry about tomorrow because it's not guaranteed.
57:03
SPEAKER_01: And the reason I wrote that song is my buddy that I used to fish with as a kid had a boat called Green Bananas, and he named it after his buddy that passed away from cancer.
57:11
SPEAKER_01: And his buddy told him in the hospital, he said, I'll give you a new piece of advice, man.
57:15
SPEAKER_01: Don't buy green bananas, you don't know what tomorrow's gonna bring.
57:18
SPEAKER_01: And uh I think that's a good way to live.
57:22
SPEAKER_01: Like live for today, man.
57:24
SPEAKER_01: Make the most of it.
57:25
SPEAKER_03: Jake, that's really cool.
57:28
SPEAKER_03: It's another really cool uh visual.
57:31
SPEAKER_03: I appreciate you being on the podcast.
57:33
SPEAKER_03: I I'm thinking now about the green banana analogy.
57:37
SPEAKER_03: Every time I'm in the grocery store, I'm probably gonna think different about bananas.
57:41
SPEAKER_03: I'm thinking about talking my younger self talking to me.
57:46
SPEAKER_03: Instead of flipping it like we always do.
57:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
57:49
SPEAKER_03: Uh these are some paradigm shifts for me going on in this conversation.
57:54
SPEAKER_03: And what your grandpa said, you can't be truly grateful if you have bitterness in your heart.
58:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
58:02
SPEAKER_01: Stop wishing and start doing, man.
58:04
SPEAKER_03: I love that.
58:07
SPEAKER_03: You've been awesome.
58:08
SPEAKER_01: Likewise.
58:09
SPEAKER_03: I appreciate you being so honest and open.
58:12
SPEAKER_03: Well, that's what this is for, man.
58:14
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, dude.
58:15
SPEAKER_03: I appreciate it.
58:16
SPEAKER_03: Because you never know that I I mean it's different with everybody, but you've been really chill and honest and challenged me that you're the first person to like do that on a pod on a podcast.
58:28
SPEAKER_03: What do you mean?
58:29
SPEAKER_03: Like, like push back on me a little bit to um help me be better.
58:35
SPEAKER_03: Um, I don't mean to do that, but I think I I think I do that to everyone.
58:38
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes I talk to them and like I like conversation that seems like it's uh we're not agreeing on everything, but like as I was saying earlier, like it's so cool to find an agreement long term with two people that may not see it the same way, but then you're like, Oh, I see where you're coming from, you see where I'm coming from, and that we reach a resolve, which is like beautiful for both of us.
58:57
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, man.
58:58
SPEAKER_03: Guys, if you enjoyed this, please subscribe.
59:01
SPEAKER_03: It's your free gift to the podcast, it really helps us out a lot.
59:05
SPEAKER_03: Over half of you aren't subscribed.
59:07
SPEAKER_03: And um, I think it's really cool when someone can release music and they own the masters because it's a huge thing for an artist to be able to have that ownership over their music.
59:18
SPEAKER_03: And so again, thanks for tuning in and go check out Jake's stuff.
59:25
SPEAKER_03: And if you learned something from this or if something stood out to you, leave it in the comments.
59:30
SPEAKER_03: And I'll see you guys back next week.
59:31
SPEAKER_03: Peace.