Latest / Show, don't Tell Writing with Suzy Vadori / 118. Using Local Places and Settings to Wordbuild Across Genres

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118. Using Local Places and Settings to Wordbuild Across Genres · Show, don't Tell Writing with Suzy Vadori

• 0:05
  Welcome to the Show Don't Tell writing podcast with me, Suzy Vadori, where I peel back the layers of how to wow your readers with your fiction, your nonfiction.
• 0:13
  Anybody can bang out a first draft, but it takes a little more work to make your book as amazing as it can be.
• 0:20
  Join me as I share the step-by-step writing techniques you could apply to your writing right away as I host successful writers who share a behind-the-scenes look at their own writing lives and as I live coach writers on their pages, giving practical writing examples that will make your own writing stronger.
• 0:38
  Nobody is born knowing how to write an engaging book.
• 0:42
  There are real and important skills that you need to learn.
• 0:45
  On this show, I cut through the noise and get you all the info you need.
• 0:49
  I can't wait to see how this information is going to transform your writing I had the absolute pleasure of meeting Elise when I was a book coach in residence at a conference in Wisconsin recently, and we had the opportunity to work on her urban fantasy book that's forthcoming, and it was such a pleasure to work with her because she learned so quickly and was just so keen to amp her magic, to amp all of the things, and her book was set in Wisconsin.
• 1:22
  And then I learned that she had other books that were set in her home state as well, and Wisconsin becomes this theme through all of her writing, even though they are in different genres and whatnot.
• 1:33
  She's got a book coming out this fall, and I just wanted you guys to have her on the podcast to listen to how enthusiastic she is about setting things that you wouldn't necessarily expect in her home state.
• 1:47
  And so if you are looking at creating setting for whether it's in your hometown or whether it's somewhere that you've been or somewhere that you've never been, there are tons and tons of tips about setting different genres of books in real-world situations in this episode.
• 2:07
  We geek out about it, and I hope you're gonna have a ton of fun.
• 2:11
  Elise Post Ledney's love for writing started at a young age when she wrote a retelling of The Lord of the Rings through the point of view of Bill the Pony.
• 2:20
  Talk about an ambitious first fan fiction.
• 2:23
  From there, writing just became second nature.
• 2:25
  Elise is currently a bookkeeper by day and writer on the weekends and very early mornings.
• 2:31
  She has short stories featured in the Creative Wisconsin Magazine and a Wisconsin Harvest of Horror anthology.
• 2:37
  A New Witch in the Northwoods is Elise's debut novel and the one that we're gonna talk about today.
• 2:42
  Having lived in Wisconsin for most of her life, she loves incorporating the lifestyles of the small towns and truly spectacular natural areas into her writing.
• 2:51
  Elise enjoys hiking with her two rescue dogs, working with horses, gardening, and snowboarding.
• 2:57
  Elise writes under the pen name Elise, but her true name is Jenna Letzer-Dixon, and that is how I met her, and she goes by both in her writing life.
• 3:05
  Book awards include top 10 winner of the 2021 Launchpad Prose Competition, and she's a proud member of the Wisconsin Writers Association and the Chicago Writers Association, and she has a really cool blog that you should check out called Fantasy in Real Life.
• 3:19
  We'll drop the link to get that in the show notes Welcome to the podcast, Elise.
• 3:26
  So good to see you and to be talking to you today.
• 3:30
  Yeah, thanks for having me.
• 3:31
  I'm so excited.
• 3:33
  Today, we discussed talking about this and, and you were, like, lit up just by the prospect of talking about writing local and writing in your community.
• 3:41
  What makes you wanna write about where you live?
• 3:45
  Yeah.
• 3:45
  You know, it's so funny.
• 3:46
  Um, I definitely, living in Wisconsin, I've always been just a nature addict.
• 3:54
  Like, I just love hiking and camping and exploring, and it's always somewhere in Wisconsin.
• 4:00
  Like, you know, growing up as a kid, that's where we went on vacation, and that's where I still go and do stuff today.
• 4:07
  And I don't know, I think it just always inspired me, and the more I… It's such a good place to, like, let your mind just wander and think, and the more I hiked or camped or was in nature, it just inspired me and got me thinking.
• 4:23
  So when I started writing fantasy stories, it was almost second nature to then just write these amazing places into my stories.
• 4:32
  Yeah.
• 4:32
  I love that you don't shy away from that then, and I can see where that works.
• 4:36
  My own series, the Fountain Series, is set in New England, and I live in Canada now, and people are like,"Well, why is it set in New England?" Like, "Well, why?" And the answer is because I actually grew up there.
• 4:45
  I went to elementary school there in Boston, and then near Boston, and when I went to set that fantasy series that was in my head where I live now, I was like, "But the trees are wrong, and the buildings aren't old enough," and, like, nothing was right until I set it there.
• 5:00
  And so I can totally relate to wanting to do that.
• 5:04
  Okay, what snags, if any, did you encounter by using a real setting and using Wisconsin?
• 5:11
  Yeah, so it wasn't surprisingly easy to weave fantasy into these places that you think you know so well, and then you kind of, the more you learn with… Once I kind of started writing and had ideas in mind, like, I did a lighthouse tour on, like, Lake Michigan and learned about all these sunken ships in the lakes.
• 5:32
  And, like, it just- Oh, wow … had so many ideas 'cause I'm like, I didn't know that was really a thing, and it just, the more you learn, the easier it was for me to come up with ideas.
• 5:42
  But there is that slight nervous sense of, like, I better write this as well as I can because I know wherever I write, like, I'm writing one in Milwaukee right now, and I'm like, people from Milwaukee are going to know all these places.
• 5:56
  I better really do my research before I put my characters into these spots.
• 6:01
  It was really cool though.
• 6:02
  The one in Milwaukee is the one that we had the opportunity to work on together this year, and I learned so much.
• 6:08
  I've never been to Milwaukee, and I was near- Me neither … Milwaukee for that conference, but we weren't in Milwaukee.
• 6:13
  Yeah.
• 6:14
  And I learned, for example, that there's a really strong German heritage there.
• 6:18
  Right.
• 6:18
  I didn't know.
• 6:20
  And, like, just there's so many, there's so much history, like the history of the breweries, and just the downtown.
• 6:26
  And, you know, we were, besides Milwaukee, we were, like, camping outside of the city one day, and there's, like- A whole ancient sandstone mound with like petroglyphs on it from like, you know, the first inhabitants that was then like vandalized during the Civil War, and just like the history you don't really know is all around you.
• 6:47
  Probably true for wherever you live, but Wisconsin for sure just- Oh … yeah, with- Yeah, so fascinating, and you can go kind of a level deeper.
• 6:57
  Okay, so you keep the real names of places.
• 7:00
  Do you keep the names of like streets and buildings, or are you changing some of that?
• 7:07
  Like, would a, would the brewery that you are writing about, would that be real, or would you make that up?
• 7:12
  I kind of base it off like a conglomeration of a couple real places.
• 7:17
  Yeah, I try to like not be too specific, like w- you know, when I'm actually naming the h- you know, like for example, the warehouse like in my book, I don't wanna like just pick a one specific place, so it's usually like a mixture.
• 7:32
  Like I did a lot of brewery tours before I wrote the book just to get a sense- Of course, as you do, right?
• 7:37
  Yeah, on what they look like and how they function, and just to get some ideas, and then like mash them all together a little bit.
• 7:45
  I love that.
• 7:45
  I love that.
• 7:46
  Okay, so your book that's coming out this September that we're here to talk about today, I know that you've got lots of other writing, and we'll get there, but it's cozy fantasy.
• 7:55
  How did you define cozy fantasy?
• 7:59
  You know, it was a learning curve, for sure, and I ended up defining it that way mostly because a lot of the early readers were like, "This is such a cozy fantasy," and I'm like,"Okay." But it's definitely, like, it's set in the Wisconsin Northwoods, and it follows a woman who moves up, up there and to run a coffee shop.
• 8:17
  So a lot of the book is just her day-to-day running a coffee shop, very just normal day, low stakes kind of thing.
• 8:24
  And then as the book develops, then she learns she's a witch, and she starts to learn all these powers, and she learns about, you know, this evil creature that's s- stalking in the woods, and it kind of escalates from there.
• 8:38
  But the basic is, like, we wanna learn about her day in the coffee shop, and we wanna hear about her hike in the woods, and more cozy, simple themes.
• 8:48
  Yeah, and so is it, is it cozy mystery with speculative elements, or it's not a mystery?
• 8:54
  It's a mashup, for sure.
• 8:55
  It does- Yeah … hints of mystery.
• 8:58
  It has some hints of paranormal and romance.
• 9:01
  I would say mostly, like, if you're talking about it, like, in contemporary fantasy.
• 9:06
  Like, it's still set in Wisconsin, it just has all these other elements that go with it.
• 9:11
  Set in Wisconsin, in the woods- Yeah … where Elise went camping, right?
• 9:16
  It is.
• 9:16
  I love it.
• 9:17
  It, yep.
• 9:18
  And the coffee shop, I assume that's not a real coffee shop.
• 9:21
  Did you make that up?
• 9:22
  I did make that up.
• 9:23
  This book particularly was inspired, I spent a week at the Nicolet State Forest, which is like northern woods Wisconsin, and it's just such a remote, beautiful area, and it's got all these history of, like, logging towns that are now since abandoned.
• 9:40
  This area we camped in was very remote but had, like, these cute little coffee shops every now and then, and it was just such a great place to stay and visit, and I, I kind of wanted to live there, so I just wrote a book that let me pretend to be there.
• 9:53
  You get to live there while you're writing.
• 9:55
  Yeah.
• 9:55
  I love that.
• 9:56
  Okay, in a coffee shop setting, there's so much that works about this as a setting for gossip in a small town, right?
• 10:05
  Because you've got this small town, you've got this cozy idea.
• 10:08
  How did you use that coffee shop?
• 10:10
  I mean, yes, it's about her day-to-day in the coffee shop, but, and don't mistake this dear listeners, dear writers, don't mistake this for that third place that you're creating where they go and get a coffee every day, and then you just show me s- them standing in line and getting their coffee every day.
• 10:24
  That is not interesting, right?
• 10:26
  Think more Grey's Anatomy, which was inspired by the fact that doctors actually talk about their love life and other things while they're working on patients, right?
• 10:35
  So it's the setting.
• 10:37
  How do you use that in the story to keep- the town keep coming together?
• 10:42
  What, what is that role of that coffee shop?
• 10:46
  Yeah, and I really used the coffee shop as a great place 'cause my main character, Mary, is living in two worlds.
• 10:52
  She's in the normal human world, and then becomes involved in the supernatural other world, and the coffee shop became kind of like the mixture for those two worlds to combine.
• 11:03
  So it was, like, her dilemma, 'cause she's trying to keep them separate, and she's got her friends and her neighbors and, you know, she hosts book events for children at the coffee shop in her normal world.
• 11:15
  But then later in the book, you know, her demon boyfriend stops by, the monster starts stalking her through the window.
• 11:21
  Like, they start to converge'cause that's her place.
• 11:24
  It was really fun kind of using the shop as, like, a, a, a pinpoint for her to kind of have to deal with these different elements in her life as they, like, as things escalated.
• 11:36
  Yeah, and sort of a natural point of tension, right?
• 11:39
  You talk about worlds colliding.
• 11:41
  Okay, I have to ask this, 'cause I asked it for the other elements; the woods are real, the coffee shop is like a coffee shop.
• 11:48
  The witches and demons are real?
• 11:51
  Oh, wouldn't it be cool?
• 11:53
  From, from the woods in Wisconsin?
• 11:56
  It was.
• 11:56
  It was like you're just camping in these woods, and we were there for a week, and, like, they're old woods and it's very remote.
• 12:03
  And I don't know, my brain was just… You could just imagine, like, what is out there?
• 12:08
  Like, probably way more than we think, you know?
• 12:10
  You don't know.
• 12:11
  And it just- Hmm … got my imagination- Are there local legends, or are they just in camping Elise's mind?
• 12:18
  I think these were mostly from my brain on this one.
• 12:21
  Okay.
• 12:21
  Um, I will say the, I thought it was very interesting, like, all the abandoned logging towns, and that kind of spawned the idea of, like, oh, there's maybe this other world that's been there for longer and kind of forgotten by the humans.
• 12:35
  But I just kind of spun it to make it supernatural instead of abandoned.
• 12:40
  Absolutely.
• 12:41
  Okay, so there's also a veil in her backyard which leads to another world.
• 12:46
  Is this specific to Wisconsin?
• 12:48
  Like, is any of this… What you've done is really cool.
• 12:51
  I, I think your next book that we were talking about is urban fantasy, and this is, like, not quite urban fantasy, 'cause it's not urban.
• 12:58
  It's rural fantasy, maybe, if that were a category.
• 13:01
  But how much of that is specific to Wisconsin, and where does the veil lead?
• 13:07
  Well- Or is that a spoiler?
• 13:09
  Um, not really.
• 13:10
  I mean, that, I wouldn't say anything specific to Wisconsin on that.
• 13:14
  I think the veil, like, in my mind, was just kind of born of, like- Thinking of the what ifs or what could be, and like what else is out there, and just like the history of these places I visit.
• 13:25
  But I actually created the veil, um, like the idea of the supernatural difference, like a supernatural world that's still within our own world- Mm-hmm … through, I actually took a class on quantum physics.
• 13:39
  Ooh, cool.
• 13:41
  It was just the perception of like- As it relates to writing or, or just unrelated to writing?
• 13:45
  Unrelated.
• 13:46
  Okay.
• 13:47
  But it's kind of fun learning new things,'cause then it's just the idea of like how your brain perceives things, and what we perceive as real, and just the idea of like what is a normal world, and I don't know.
• 14:00
  Creativity took hold after that I love it.
• 14:03
  And okay, so, so we've got, don't wanna give too many spoilers, but does anybody come through the veil and experience Wisconsin from a different place?
• 14:12
  Yes.
• 14:13
  Yeah.
• 14:13
  Yes.
• 14:14
  And it is very fun.
• 14:15
  And there's, it was fun making up, you know, like the rules for the world because there's a cost for a supernatural creature to come through, and… But it was kind of fun also to tie into, like, maybe some of the town's mysteries, like why some of these strange things have been happening, and what's been going on, and kind of give it everything a supernatural twist.
• 14:37
  Amazing.
• 14:37
  And what do they think of Wisconsin?
• 14:40
  Honestly, what does anybody think of, of when they go somewhere new?
• 14:44
  And that, that's part of what writing is.
• 14:46
  They say that there's only two stories in this world, right?
• 14:49
  Mm-hmm.
• 14:49
  Somebody goes on a journey or somebody new comes to town, and in both cases, we're exploring something new, and that's an amazing construct for a story because it allows you to draw the readers in to really pull them into that setting.
• 15:03
  And so what would you say if, w- I was just there, but what would you say if we were to drop somebody from a different world into Wisconsin?
• 15:13
  What would they notice?
• 15:15
  Yeah.
• 15:15
  Oof.
• 15:16
  That's, yeah.
• 15:16
  And what do they notice?
• 15:18
  I g- I guess for me, probably 'cause I'm biased, it's the nature that everyone notices, and it's the people.
• 15:25
  I mean, I'm sure everyone knows the Midwest Wisconsin stereotypes, but it, everyone here is very friendly and open and generally very kind.
• 15:36
  So yeah, definitely the Midwest nice kind of is really a thing, so I did have fun, like, kind of playing with just the characters and friendly nature of people.
• 15:47
  But definitely just the scenery and the scenic nature of things, and I feel like, especially a lot of the places we go, like, people really do enjoy nature here, and I do try to write that in and share that with the book.
• 15:59
  'Cause there's just so much history tied to it as well throughout the state, so it was fun to write in those things and, but I do also like to, like, add in the little quirks.
• 16:09
  Like we were talking about, like, I would love to add in just a little scene, like, where there's people surfing in Lake Michigan, 'cause no one really knows that's a thing.
• 16:17
  And there's just so many different things you don't think of that happen in Wisconsin that do.
• 16:23
  I mean, like, the Wisconsin Northwoods are a whole different world practically.
• 16:27
  I mean, 'cause like especially in the winter, people are snowmobiling and snowboarding and skiing and ice fishing, and it's just a, a whole different little community that not everyone- Sounds like Canada.
• 16:39
  Amazing.
• 16:40
  Okay.
• 16:41
  Witches, vampires, demon.
• 16:44
  Yep.
• 16:44
  These are all making a comeback, by the way.
• 16:46
  In that conference that we shared, um, a- last month was actually most of the agents were really excited about that, that paranormal was coming back What made you put all of these creatures in?
• 16:58
  What's your connection and- Oh gosh.
• 17:01
  That's just, I- those are my favorite kinds of books.
• 17:03
  Those are my favorite kinds of stories.
• 17:05
  I grew up reading all that stuff, so it's just almost second nature.
• 17:10
  Like, I just love the idea that, like, something else could be out there that we don't know about.
• 17:16
  And I also th- think using, like, creatures like vampires or demons or something that's not, like, labeled human, but then using them to explore human nature is, like, such a cool way to, to do that and, like, kinda explore humanity, like, with a supernatural element.
• 17:37
  I don't know.
• 17:38
  I think it's a good- Yeah, no, that, that makes a lot of sense.
• 17:40
  It's the contrast, right?
• 17:41
  Like, you're able- Yeah … to show the differences, much like we were talking about.
• 17:44
  You've got this veil to the other world, and then they step into Wisconsin, and that's how you actually show what makes Wisconsin, show it through the, the eyes of an outsider.
• 17:54
  I, I mean, it's the same thing when you use a creature.
• 17:58
  You're exploring humanity by showing what it isn't- Mm-hmm … um, or what maybe those creatures love about humanity, what attracts them to humans.
• 18:07
  What's different about vampires and demons in Wisconsin?
• 18:10
  I guess, can you see my, see my j- I'm kind of stuck on this.
• 18:13
  They're in Wisconsin.
• 18:14
  Do they sparkle?
• 18:16
  They don't sparkle, no.
• 18:17
  No, I actually wrote in vampires into this one book because I was like, "I would like to see an evil vampire again." But I guess nothing so different in Wisconsin, but I did have some fun.
• 18:28
  I mean, most of the main characters are witches, demons, um, but I had some really fun side characters and side creatures that were based on, like, um, Wisconsin wildlife or, you know, like, there's a Wisconsin dairy farmer who's also supernatural, um, and his cows are supernatural, and it was just kind of fun to add some of those little things in there to make the story a little more local and a little more Wisconsin.
• 18:53
  Yeah, and I love that, and, I mean, having read some of your work, I can say it's not cheesy, and, and I- pun intended for Wisconsin But I- But, you know, it's not obvious that… It's not obvious that you're doing this Wisconsin thing.
• 19:08
  It's just kind of woven into the story, which is what is so successful about it.
• 19:14
  Right, I just… Yeah, you don't wanna shove it in people's faces, but I want to share what I love about it.
• 19:20
  Absolutely, and you know, it, it's a real classic way to exper- you know, to actually execute write what you know.
• 19:27
  Mm-hmm.
• 19:27
  It doesn't mean… Well, unless you know some vampires, and demons, and witches.
• 19:31
  I'm not sure.
• 19:32
  Maybe that's for a different podcast.
• 19:34
  Yeah, that's a secret podcast.
• 19:36
  Secret podcast.
• 19:38
  Okay.
• 19:38
  There's hereditary magic in this book.
• 19:40
  Tell me more about that.
• 19:42
  So I guess same thing, kind of going along the terms of, like, write what you know, I like to learn lots of things and kind of build off of that, so like, I built off, like, I took a quantum physics class and used that to build the veil, and the hereditary magic, I had a lot of fun writing.
• 19:58
  I did a lot of Tai Chi and loved the idea of, like, how Tai Chi worked and, like, how you interacted with different elements, and kind of built the whole magic system based off of that.
• 20:12
  And then I tied it, I made it like a hereditary thing, just we were talking earlier as well, like, I just love family history and kind of like that whole aspect, so I thought it'd be fun to kind of weave the two together and bring, like, a family theme to it as well.
• 20:29
  Yeah, absolutely, and I think we were talking about that before we started recording, but also, right?
• 20:33
  But, but that you and your dad have been tracing your heritage from Wisconsin all the way back and, and what you've discovered, so that's the family history piece.
• 20:43
  I love that.
• 20:44
  Okay, so that was my next question, kind of goes right into there, but how do you actually research your setting when you're writing?
• 20:50
  So we're talking a lot about Wisconsin today, but for the listeners, the writers here who are wondering, how do I incorporate a particular setting, or how do I write about my localness, what, what kind of research do you do?
• 21:02
  You've mentioned a few things along the way as we've been talking, but just give us a hint.
• 21:07
  Yeah, especially if you're trying to write local, I would say go do, like it sounds silly, but like go do the tours in your hometown.
• 21:15
  Like g- I did the lighthouse tour.
• 21:17
  Go do a … I did the brewery tours.
• 21:19
  Like, I just go to, like, your local historical society.
• 21:23
  Like, there's way more close to home than you think there is, and it's so easy.
• 21:29
  Like, oh, I drive past that building every day, but like have you actually stopped to think about, like what is the history of that building?
• 21:35
  Like, what could be there?
• 21:37
  What used to be there?
• 21:39
  I think it's more just, like, being aware of your surroundings and taking the time to actually notice and think about things, and then, um, definitely just taking advantage of learning about your hometown Yeah, I love that.
• 21:55
  And you know, when you got people come visit, go do the tours with them.
• 21:59
  Yeah.
• 21:59
  You know?
• 21:59
  Take them out.
• 21:59
  Yeah.
• 22:00
  Um, on my way to, uh, where we met in Wisconsin at that conference, I actually flew into Chicago 'cause it was easier for me to get to than Milwaukee from where I was going and where we were headed.
• 22:11
  And yeah, my girlfriend in, in Chicago was amazing 'cause she to- she's like, "We're doing Chicago.
• 22:17
  I'm gonna pick you up and we're going for hot dogs, and then we're, you know, we're doing deep dish pizza, and we're doing the river tour." And I was like, "That sounds amazing.
• 22:25
  Let's do all of that." To have somebody that's super enthusiastic about, about their setting.
• 22:32
  I live in Calgary, Canada, and when people come here and ask me,"What should we do in Calgary?" I say, "You should go to Banff" Yeah … which is not in Calgary, but it's very close.
• 22:40
  I live about 45, probably an hour from Banff.
• 22:43
  I live about 45 minutes from Canmore.
• 22:45
  And so we're right in, like, the cusp of this amazing place.
• 22:50
  But yeah, I, I never bring people on tours of Calgary unless they come during the Stampede.
• 22:55
  But definitely writing about yourself because it, or your own setting is, is probably something not everybody thinks about, right?
• 23:03
  Yeah.
• 23:03
  You know, it's fun, like, everyone's like, "Oh, I get so much inspiration from travel and going to all these places," and that is very inspirational as well and very cool, but I'm like, there's still so much local that, you know- Yeah if you know about it, it's all pretty amazing stuff.
• 23:20
  Okay, so ruby bright blood speckles in the snow.
• 23:23
  Is that something you actually saw in Wisconsin?
• 23:26
  What?
• 23:26
  It's in, it's on the book.
• 23:28
  Yeah, that's what I know of.
• 23:29
  No.
• 23:29
  So lots of it is also made up.
• 23:31
  Okay.
• 23:31
  So as you said, you know, when you go and you travel and you see different things, you do notice more things.
• 23:37
  I've always played a game with my kids, and we still play it now even though they're, you know, my oldest is 20.
• 23:43
  But when we used to travel when they were younger, also to, you know, when they're crabby and they're just getting off the plane and you're in a cab somewhere, and you say, "What's different about here?" And they say, "Well, the, the traffic lights are different," and, "Well, the trees are different," and they just start to notice everything that's different, and it's something that we still do.
• 24:00
  Writer games.
• 24:01
  If you're a writer, maybe it's a game that you wanna play with your children.
• 24:04
  Um, but where is Mary?
• 24:05
  So Mary's the main character in this book that's just coming out now.
• 24:08
  Where is she from?
• 24:09
  Um- 'Cause she just moves to this small town, right?
• 24:12
  Yes.
• 24:12
  I actually had her from Milwaukee moving up from Milwaukee.
• 24:16
  So, so she's actually local.
• 24:19
  She's a local girl, but she's moving to the small town.
• 24:21
  So what, what does she notice that's different for her?
• 24:23
  Like, how is her life different in the small town?
• 24:26
  'Cause that's a big thing, too.
• 24:27
  Like, is if, if you live in the city and are writing about a small town or vice versa.
• 24:32
  Um, I think the main thing, it was just the pace of things, and the neighbor.
• 24:39
  You know, it's a small town, so you think you'd have more space, but usually, like, the neighbors, everyone knows everyone, so it's dealing with the local gossip and the local judgments, and trying to keep your life private even though you see everyone all the time.
• 24:56
  And then you add her secrets on top of things, and it makes it tricky.
• 25:00
  But it's also, like, just the pace of, you know, like, you move from a city and, you know, it's, everything's, like, fast-paced and jam-packed, and then you kind of go to these Northwoods places where everything's a lot slower.
• 25:13
  A lot of stuff depends on the weather and the season, and it's, it's, I mean, it is really a whole different world, and it's only, I wanna say, three, four hours north.
• 25:24
  So it was kind of fun working through her journey of, like, she thinks this is what she wants, but she's gotta also figure out how to live it.
• 25:33
  Yeah.
• 25:33
  Well, she thinks that's what she wants.
• 25:34
  I'm not sure she bargained for the witches and demons, but- Yeah, that was a surprise.
• 25:39
  Yeah, those are also a surprise.
• 25:40
  There's gotta be a cost to going to the small town life, right?
• 25:43
  It's not all good.
• 25:45
  Okay, we've reached the quick-fire portion of our interview, where I'm gonna ask you how long did it… This is your debut novel.
• 25:53
  Congratulations, by the way.
• 25:55
  Over the moon for you.
• 25:56
  How long did it take from the time that you first went to those Northwoods, the coffee shop, you thought of the idea, to publication?
• 26:07
  It was a journey.
• 26:08
  I think- We did that trip in 2017, and I came home and just started… I was just inspired, and I just started writing it.
• 26:20
  And I just kept writing and writing, and I just loved it.
• 26:23
  I think my first draft was, like, 400,000 words.
• 26:27
  Like, I just wanted to write a story.
• 26:30
  And then it sat for a while, um, and then COVID hit, and I pulled it out again and did some editing, and was like,"Well, maybe this is a real story, and maybe I should do something with it." So that's when I started to look at maybe publishing it, and that was a whole journey in itself, 'cause I knew absolutely nothing about anything.
• 26:51
  And, um, actually my very first query letter, I was writing grants at the time, so my first query letter was basically, like, a nonfiction query letter,'cause I thought that would look right.
• 27:03
  Um, it was, like, way off the mark.
• 27:05
  And, um, I- A nonfiction query letter being like- A proposal … like a marketing proposal.
• 27:12
  I'm like, "This, this seems right. I'll send that in. Should it be…" And it- It didn't work, needless to say.
• 27:16
  It didn't work.
• 27:17
  Yeah.
• 27:17
  It didn't work.
• 27:18
  And then I finally, I was like, whatever I think I'm doing, whatever I'm learning is not getting me anywhere, and I tried to hire a local editor, who of course was like, "I don't really do fantasy." Um, but she was very helpful, and she was like, "Have you heard of the Wisconsin Writers Association?" And I was like, "No." And she gave me the info to join that, and that was what changed everything, because they had resources and classes, and I actually was able to, like, educate myself on how book publishing works, and what the industry is like.
• 27:51
  And when I finally learned and was like,"This is what needs to happen I'd say then I finally ended up signing with a local publisher in Wisconsin, um- Perfect for a local book, right?
• 28:05
  Yeah.
• 28:05
  It was great.
• 28:06
  Like, that's ideal.
• 28:06
  Yeah.
• 28:07
  Yeah.
• 28:07
  And I think that was about, like, two years after I finally got serious about, like, I wanna- Yes, but the first idea, 2017 you said, right?
• 28:15
  To 2026.
• 28:17
  Yep.
• 28:17
  Yeah.
• 28:18
  Nine- Yeah … nine years, and but that's, but that's usual, right?
• 28:21
  It takes a long time- But it's-… before we learn these things, and nobody's born knowing how to write a book, although Hollywood tells us otherwise, that you can just do it.
• 28:31
  Elise's journey is very typical, where she reached out and found that there is this amazing writing community.
• 28:38
  You're listening to this podcast right now.
• 28:40
  You're learning from Elise, who learned those things before.
• 28:44
  Go reach out to your local writer's association and find out, and that also, Elise, led you to the book camp where we met, correct?
• 28:53
  Yeah.
• 28:53
  And you had workshopped this book last year at that camp as well, and now it's being published, and you're working on something else.
• 29:00
  Yeah.
• 29:00
  So.
• 29:00
  Definitely find your local writing groups and join them because I will always recommend that after, like, struggling with, like, all these various resources.
• 29:11
  It's so hard to know, like, what's legitimate or not, and finding local and actually connecting with real people, like, I know it's hard for introvert writers, but, like, it really has made a difference, like, the human connection.
• 29:25
  Yeah, definitely.
• 29:26
  Okay, so I think you may have just answered this, but my second quick-fire question is what was your first big break?
• 29:32
  What was the big thing that shifted that allowed you to see the path to get this book published?
• 29:38
  Yeah, um, it was actually probably the first writing conference I attended.
• 29:43
  It was the Wisconsin Writer's Conference, and, um, I actually brought the first 20 pages of this book that's coming out now for, like, a review session, and got a taste of, like, what the industry was, and learned about all these things.
• 29:59
  So then I actually submitted to, um, the Creative Wisconsin Magazine, and got my first short story published, and then I was like, "Okay, I can do this." Yeah.
• 30:10
  It's amazing how validating it is to have your first thing be accepted.
• 30:15
  Yeah.
• 30:15
  Because you go through this period of time where you're like, "Hey, is my writing any good? I don't really know." Yep.
• 30:19
  When I read it, I see the northwoods of Wisconsin, and I feel amazing, right?
• 30:24
  Um, but will other people get that?
• 30:26
  And yeah, sometimes it takes a minute, but once you sort of get that acceptance, then go, go, go, and you're on to y- you're publishing book one, and on to book two, and you have some short story credits under your belt.
• 30:39
  That's amazing.
• 30:40
  Elise, what is your best advice for writers listening to the podcast today who are considering setting something, whether it's science fiction, fantasy, mystery, romance, anything- In their hometown Ooh, okay.
• 30:56
  Like, I guess like I said before, don't be afraid to do the research and ask the questions, especially if you're, like, looking for ideas because it- when you actually take a deeper look at whatever's around you, you're bound to get ideas for something.
• 31:11
  Like, whatever, like you said, whatever genre you're writing in, I think that plays a huge part.
• 31:18
  And also, like, do your research when you're writing this.
• 31:22
  Make sure the brick color on the buildings is correct.
• 31:24
  Milwaukee's known for Cream City because it is cream-colored brick.
• 31:29
  You don't wanna write about all Milwaukee's red brick buildings, you know?
• 31:33
  You, you do wanna be aware of what you're diving into.
• 31:36
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 31:37
  And if you don't live there, I mean, there's other ways to do, you know, you, you don't have to write stories where you live.
• 31:43
  There's, there's definitely video evidence or anything that you can do, or have those sections of your book where you're describing things looked at by a local because they might pick up something like Jenna just said.
• 31:55
  You assume people talk about brick buildings, we might assume it's red brick, and then it automatically flags you as an outsider.
• 32:03
  I know when I had an employee many years ago when I worked corporate that moved to my town, where I live now, Calgary, Alberta, and it's an oil and gas town, and she was talking about something about the gas and oil, and I was like, it just sounded so wrong.
• 32:18
  And she's like, "What?" She's from the Southern states, and she's like, "What?" Why is that wrong?
• 32:24
  And I'm like, I don't know.
• 32:25
  It just is, right?
• 32:26
  Like, there's just things that will make you sound not like a local that you don't know.
• 32:30
  Um, you don't know what you don't know.
• 32:32
  So yeah, if you're not writ- if you're writing about your own town, do it.
• 32:35
  Do it unapologetically.
• 32:37
  Demon Hunters in Milwaukee, like, what a great tagline, right?
• 32:41
  Elise's next book that she's working on.
• 32:43
  But all of those things, but, but it doesn't have to feel cheesy.
• 32:47
  It can absolutely work.
• 32:48
  But make sure that you get a local to look at it if you are not local, okay?
• 32:54
  What's next for you?
• 32:55
  What are you writing next?
• 32:56
  We just kind of alluded to the next book, and I only talk about that 'cause we worked on it recently together.
• 33:01
  But what's next set in Wisconsin?
• 33:05
  Yes.
• 33:05
  Um, so I love writing stories.
• 33:08
  Um, so I am working on the Demon Hunters in Milwaukee.
• 33:11
  Working on our edits that we've worked on, so it's coming along.
• 33:15
  Um- It'll take a minute.
• 33:16
  I give a lot of edits.
• 33:18
  It's gonna be a minute.
• 33:19
  Um, but I'm also trying to work on, um, another story also tying with my love of family history.
• 33:26
  Um, it's a Slovenian folktale retelling set in, um, another area of Wisconsin that I'm trying to tie some things in.
• 33:35
  So just, I just… And it started out not that way, and now everything I write just kind of gravitates back to Wisconsin, so I'm leaning into it and really enjoying it now.
• 33:46
  Hey, you gotta write what lights you up, and you gotta write where the muse is coming from.
• 33:51
  And, uh, so I hope for your sake that you don't move.
• 33:54
  Uh, maybe you could keep writing about it.
• 33:56
  Where can we find you and your books, Elise?
• 33:59
  Sure.
• 34:00
  Um, yeah.
• 34:00
  My website is just epwrites.com.
• 34:03
  Um, and it's got links.
• 34:05
  I'm on Instagram and TikTok and Facebook and all the social- Awesome.
• 34:10
  And all those links will be in the show notes.
• 34:13
  Go find Elise.
• 34:14
  Go find her amazing book.
• 34:16
  And if you are writing local, let us know in the comments, 'cause we'd love to support you on it.
• 34:22
  Thanks for coming on the show today, Elise.
• 34:24
  Thank you so much.
• 34:25
  I had a great time talking with you.
• 34:34
  Thanks for tuning in to the Show, Don't Tell writing podcast with me, Suzy Vadori.
• 34:38
  It is my absolute honor to bring you the straight goods for that book you're writing or the book that you're planning to write.
• 34:44
  Please help me keep the podcast going by helping people find us.
• 34:48
  You can subscribe to the podcast and leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever else you're listening to show how much you enjoy the show.
• 34:57
  That's how other listeners will find us.
• 35:00
  Also, visit Suzyvadori.com/newsletter to hop on my weekly inspired writing newsletter list, where you'll stay inspired and be the first to know about all the upcoming training events and writing courses that happen in my community.
• 35:14
  Want my eyes on your writing?
• 35:16
  Submit a page in your current draft for a chance to come on the podcast at the link in the show notes.
• 35:21
  I'd love to chat with you about your writing in my always positive, incredibly supportive way so that you can make great strides towards your writing goals.
• 35:31
  I'm here to cheer you on.
• 35:33
  Remember, that book you're writing is gonna open doors that you haven't even thought of yet, and I can't wait to help you make that it the absolute best it can be.
• 35:43
  See you again right here next week