Latest / The Mound Visit / How to Handle Injuries

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How to Handle Injuries · The Mound Visit

0:00
So because if you look at like a high school kill, let's just say
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you're the best kid. You know, you're the best kid in the state
0:04
of Arizona. For example, I'll use the example Cam Camminetty. He's going
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to be a first rounder of this year out of a high school here in
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Arizona. He throws ninety four to ninety seven from the left side. He
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could throw eighty eight to ninety one and he's probably still going to dominate.
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But eighty eight to ninety one compared to his mid nineties is a huge drop
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off and that would be a red flag for me as a coach. But
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if you're not ever radar in your guys, you're not ever tracking these things,
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it can be tough and you can let those things slip through the cracks.
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Because if you're the best player on the team, even at your B
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or C game, you're probably still going to be a good good enough to
0:37
perform well. So it can be blinding in a way to just go off
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of performance at the lower levels when a player is just clearly above everybody else.
1:00
All right, guys, we are live today. We are going to
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dive into injuries. This is obviously something that has been going on a lot
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this year in the Major League, specifically early on in the year, and
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you know, truth be told, I think it's become more popular or more
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popular topic because of the types of players that were getting hurt, like Spencer
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Strider, Garrick Cole, really big household names, so it kind of alerts
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you a little bit more and injuries are happening. But with that said,
1:23
you know, me and Josh both have experiences with injuries that we've been able
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to overcome and work through. So we thought this would be a valuable,
1:30
valuable episode just to walk through some of those things and you know, from
1:34
every aspect, just the rehab journey, the mental side of it, overcoming
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it, and many things along with a couple of stories. So Josh,
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I'm gonna kick it straight to you. Let's just jump right into it.
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You know, you've made it known that you have had some back issues in
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the past. You know, walk us through that journey a little bit about
1:49
when it first started, and you know, wherever the story takes, you
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lead us, lead us down that path. Yeah, for sure. So
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it started in twenty twenty one. I started getting some like nerve pain in
2:04
my left leg and it was just kind of like pain running down my leg
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and I was like, oh, that's weird. And I always thought it
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was more of a hamsterring issue. So I was telling the trainers like,
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hey, like I think my hamsterring is kind of like sore. It's it's
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not feeling too good. And then they keep working on it. They're doing
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soft tissue and stuff like that, but it wouldn't get better. And then
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a couple of months go by and I was doing a backsquad and back then
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I loved like, you know, the powerlifting ti ust style lifting, so
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like heavy dead lifts, heavy backsquatting, and I could backslat a lot.
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So I think at that time I was squatting like four or five. I
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was going for like a heavy set of five something like that. And then
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I go down and I just feel something just like I want to say,
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pop, but it kind of just like started burning and I come up and
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I'm like, oh my god, that didn't feel right. And then right
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after that, I couldn't I couldn't bend over. I was like trying to
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bend over, but my back was like it was like a wooden plank and
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like it just wouldn't want to go. So I was like, oh my
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god, that's that's not good. I told the trainers. They're like,
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yeah, just take a day. What happened that night was it started getting
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really bad, Like the pain was excruciating and any type of pressure on that
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leg would just be like the most excruciating pain ever. And so the trainers
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were there trying to help me. They're like poking me with acupuncture needles and
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stuff, trying to like do something, but nothing really helped. And I
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was just like, I'm in so much pain. So they're like, all
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right, we're gonna have to call an ambulance. And so it was like
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midnight and then we call an ambulance. They come, and I go to
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the to the hospital, and what they told me was like, yeah,
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you have a it's probably a herniated disc. We can't really do much about
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it. You're just gonna have to get like an MRI and go from there.
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And so they pretty much just kicked me out. I was selling so
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much pain and I was waiting for my trainers and I was like just lying
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on the floor while I was waiting for my trainer, and everyone was like
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are you okay? Are you okay? I'm like yeah, but they said
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they can't do anything. So yeah, I was just lying on the floor
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and then we get back and get an MRI and it was just a fully
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herniated this so that this was just like poking way out and just all around
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my nerve and the doctor said, yeah, you're gonna need surgery. So
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yeah, that's what I did. I flew into Dallas and then got that
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surgery done. An yeah, after that the pain went went straight away.
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But that was a that was pretty that was like a two month process.
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Sou's bedbound full about two months prior to getting that surgery. Real quick,
5:06
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5:10
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5:29
If you're interested, check out the link in the show notes. All right
5:31
back to the show. Yeah, how did it feel so how old are
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you? You were, what nineteen twenty? Yeah, I was twenty.
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Yeah. I mean, what did it feel like to have to have a
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back surgery at twenty years old? You know, obviously it's not the most
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common thing for you know, people your age to have done athletes. Maybe
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it's a little more common, but obviously still very rare. I'm curious,
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you know, with arm injuries, sometimes there can be a mental hurdle to
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overcome. Just with truck seen it that you can actually throw the ball,
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let it go. Was it a similar feeling with the back to where like
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you were hesitant at first when you started building up or like what was the
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process like when you started throwing? Yeah, it was really weird because I
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was bedbound for like a month, and so my whole body like atropheed,
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and so like the thing that I realized the most was like running running was
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really tough. Like my coves usually you can do like a like a cophrase
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like that pretty easily. I couldn't do them like one leg. It was
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just like impossible to do. And so like I just felt heavy and it
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wasn't too much of a hurdle to go back and throw, but there was
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definitely a like I didn't like lifting anymore. That was just like I was
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kind of scared of it. I was just kept remembering like the feeling I
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got from perniating that disc, and even now, like lifting isn't really the
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same. I don't deadlift anymore. I don't squat anymore. I just do
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belt squats and types of lunges and stuff like that. But yeah, the
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back's a really tough one. It's like every single year after that I had
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a back issue. So it's not like you get surgery and you good.
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It's the back is a constant process for sure. Yeah. I coached a
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guy with the Twins that had a back surgery I think when he was in
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high school or college one or the other, and then he ended up hurting
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it again when he was in pro ball with us and had to have another
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back surgery, and it just seemed like for him, he just said he
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always had to constantly be moving around doing stretches for keeping it loose. And
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he was a relief pitcher, so like in the bullpen, he would just
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constantly be having to move around to keep it moving otherwise it would just stiffen
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up. Is that similar with you? With throwing even to this day.
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Yeah, so relieving was really tough. Like I would see the other relievers
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and how they would just be able to sit down for seven innings and get
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that name cold and they're ready to go, and I'd be so jealous.
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I feel like, jeezus, how can you do that? Like for me,
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my mom would be fine, I'll throw a couple of platos and then
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I'm ready. But my like my back just wasn't ready. It was just
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like tight, and as you said, like I need I needed to keep
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moving, like rolling it out, and so yeah, as soon as I
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got converted into a relief pitch on it, it got really tough for sure.
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Yeah. I actually had a back issue myself the last year I was
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playing, and it happened at the very beginning of the season. It was
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like a week before my first start of the season, I was deadlifting,
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similar situation, except I actually didn't feel it immediately, Like I think I
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might have felt something that just felt a little off, but it wasn't really
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anything bad. And the next day I woke up and like I could feel
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it really starting to tighten up, and kept going along with my normal routine,
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and then that night when I threw in the first game, it just
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started to tighten up like crazy the first inning, and it just got worse
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and worse as the game went on. And then when I woke up the
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next day of the day after, it was like I literally couldn't even move
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and I don't know, I never like got it diagnosed to know exactly what
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it was. I ended up trying to start again the following week and I
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was down like five or six miles an hour just because I literally could not
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rotate, because if I got any extension at all, it just grabbed that
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like the low right part of my back and I just couldn't move. So
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at that point I went on the IL for a couple weeks and did PT
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and what notot for it, but like I never had an MRI or anything
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done, and it did linger pretty much the rest of the season, like
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if I wasn't stretching it or doing things like constantly or even taking taking advil
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or whatever, it was like it would just bother me and it never really
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got better the rest of the season, and then it'd be my last season,
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so I never overcame it again. But I was able to work through
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it. But man, just having a small dose of what you've gone through
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with the back, Like the back is not fun, Like you don't realize
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how important your back is for pitching or for doing any sort of training until
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you injure it, because it literally is at the center of everything, Like
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any sort of rotation you're going to feel and it's gonna limit you. And
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then the issue with injuries in general, when you try to throw through them
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is usually you create compensations that lead to other issues. And you know,
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I've seen that, you know, with myself and with other players, but
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you know, it sounds like for you you basically were shut down immediately,
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right, Like you didn't try to throw through this and it got worse.
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Correct, Yeah, there was no chance. Like as soon as I did
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it, it was I had to have the Yeah, I couldn't walk,
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it was any kind of pressure. It was just like excruciating pain. What
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about any other injuries have you had any You haven't had any surgeries besides the
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back, right, Like, have you ever had an elbow or a shoulder
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issue? So I've never had any surgeries except on my back. I've had
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a couple of my back. But in twenty twenty three, I had an
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elbow issue, a four arm strain. And this one was kind of an
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interesting one because I came into spring training with a little bit of soreness,
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that's what I thought it was, and all throughout spring training I was fine,
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like it felt good. Actually I did shut down for like a week
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in spring training, and then I came back and it felt good. I
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was ready. And then the very last day of spring training, I felt
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it just like grab and it's kind of a scary area because it's like right
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here, like where you know, like you would think the UCL is.
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And so I did that and then I didn't really want to tell anyone because
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we were breaking the next day, you know, and I wanted to go
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and break with the team, and so I didn't tell anyone. I was
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like, oh, just rehabit like what we did in Arizona will be good.
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And then I go to North Carolina and pitched through it. I was
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starting every every week, and starting helped it so much, just because I
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was in a throwing program where I would start and then take a day fully
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fully off, and then the next day only throw plios and then the next
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day I'm doing light catch and so like I had a I had like pretty
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much three days of recovery, and so starting helps so much. If I
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was really about I would have been toasted. But yeah, I did that
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for I think two months, and then there was one game where it just
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became kind of like unbearable and so I had to tell them and be like,
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hey, like I think I need to go in the io. But
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yeah, I think it was just that the back and the forum and that's
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about it. Yeah, dude, that you made me think of something that
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I think could be valuable for a lot of kids or even pro guys.
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Really, But like, the fine line of knowing when to say something about
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an injury is so tough because you want to play, obviously, and you're
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afraid that if you say something, even if it's something minor, that they're
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going to shut you down and you're not going to pitch for weeks on end,
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when it might just be something simple that needs you know, you just
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need a little bit of time and you're gonna be fine. But it's you.
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I don't know if I don't know if ego is the word, but
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it's just it's really tough sometimes to say that you're injured, Like I've I
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got to experience that a lot as a coach, just knowing players and not
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being that far removed from playing, Like I could tell when guys were hurting
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and when they weren't saying something, and getting a player to build that trust
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with you, to share that something doesn't feel right, even if it's just
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like a minor thing, to where they tell you, hey, I need
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to be down today, Like I you know, I can't pitch tonight if
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you really need me to, but like I probably need another day just to
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recover. Like even little things like that. If you can build that trust
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with a coach, that's going to be really valuable. But you know,
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at the amateur levels it's different because usually, you know, let's just say
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you're the best pitcher on your high school team. You're the guy that they're
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going to ride, you know, in every big game, and it's really
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tough to say something when you're the one that they're relying on. Or if
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you're in college and you know you're you are the closer and you're expected to
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throw on Fridays and Sundays and sometimes on Saturdays as well, and you're a
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little beat up, it's it's tough to know when to say something and when
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not to. Do you have any And I know it's such a great area,
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but do you have any advice for guys that are feeling something and you
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know, debating whether they should say something to a coach or just keep throwing.
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Yeah, I know that's such a fine line for sure, And yeah,
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I experienced it a couple of times. Yeah, I'm not sure.
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I think as soon as like, if you're really hurting and then uh,
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performance starts to decline, then you should start telling them because you don't want
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them to be like all right, like he's just like sucking right now,
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you want to tell them, Okay, Like if if you're doing really bad
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and you're hurting, then you probably want to say something. But I don't
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know. I think it's just really you just got to kind of know yourself.
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I think like everyone's going through some type of like soulness, and so
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if it's similar to that, then you know, you don't have to say
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anything. But if it's something that you really think that something might be wrong,
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then you probably want to tell someone. The same with my with my
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forum, like MRIs everything, it showed that it was like pretty much nothing
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was wrong. Maybe like a tiny like tail or whatever. But at the
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time, I was like, look like something is wrong, like my elbow
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hood's so bad, and so I had to tell them. But yeah,
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I'm interested to see to hear what you have to say about it. Well,
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I think, like me, I think about it through the coaches lens
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now and I think like, this is just another reason why it's so valuable
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to have a radar gun on all of your pictures, because that can be
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one of the biggest red flags that a guy is either getting fatigued in an
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outing or they're just they're or they're injured. They're getting injured is if you're
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seeing a big velocity drop off. So, because if you look at like
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Ahigh School, Ki, let's just say you're the best kid. You know,
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you're the best kid in the state of Arizona. For example, I'll
16:04
use the example Cam Camminetty. He's going to be a first rounder this year
16:07
out of a high school here in Arizona. He throws ninety four to ninety
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seven from the left side. He could throw eighty eight to ninety one and
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he's probably still going to dominate. But eighty eight to ninety one compared to
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his mid nineties is a huge drop off, and that would be a red
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flag for me as a coach. But if you're not ever radar in your
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guys, you're not ever tracking these things, it can be tough and you
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can let those things slip through the cracks. Because if you're the best player
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of the team, even at your B or C game, you're probably still
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going to be a good good enough to perform well. So it can be
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blinding in a way to just go off of performance at the lower levels when
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a player is just clearly above everybody else. So that would be like my
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number one recommendation as a coach is you know, kids, especially younger kids,
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like they're going to want to throw there. In most cases they're not
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going to say something, So like, as a coach, you need to
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be paying attention and being aware doing the things that you have control over when
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it comes to tracking things. Another thing that I've been using recently is the
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Armcare app. I'm not sure if you're familiar with it, but it just
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measures their shoulder range of motion, their grip strength, it measures internal extra
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rotation, it measures everything with the arm. That can be a really helpful
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tool just for measuring fatigue. So like for my guys, I have them
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use it on their high intensity day, so like on a bullpen day or
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a VLO day. We'll do it on those days when they're the freshest.
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And if their numbers are super low in certain areas or like their score is
17:32
well below where we want it to be, then I have that information where
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I can adjust the plan because they're clearly not recovered enough for what we're about
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to do that day. So like, using tools like that can be really
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valuable for guys. So I just think as a coach it comes down to
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being objective, so radar gun tracking things like with an armcare app, but
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also having a relationship with your players where they feel safe that they can say
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something and that if they say something, you're not going to a blow it
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off and tell them they still need play through it or be you know,
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go the other route to where if they say the tiniest thing is bothering them,
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you shut them down for weeks on end. Like, you have to
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build that trust with a player, and it can be really tough at the
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lower levels because players sometimes you know, high school and even college guys like
18:15
knowing the difference between fatigue, soreness, and like an actual injury is is
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a great area and it can be tough for a coach to kind of sift
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through that, but that's where like, as a player, I feel like
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it's just really valuable to where if you're feeling a little beat up and a
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little fatigued, and it really feels like, you know, if you have
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one day off, you're going to feel much better. Like being able to
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say that, having that trust with a coach I think goes a long ways.
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Have you ever felt like that trust with a coach before to where like
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you've been able to tell me even this year, right, you're a reliever
18:42
this year. Has there been any days where you tell the pitching coach like,
18:47
hey, I need an extra day today? Yeah? You know,
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I think I've had that trust with a coach. It's just a little bit
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different in pro bol, just because any little thing that you tell a coach,
19:02
they're gonna record it. And so it was funny though, is one
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time where the athletic trainer came over to me and he was like, hey,
19:11
man, how's your back? And then I was like, yeah,
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it feels good. And then we go in and then we go into the
19:18
athletic training room and I see his laptop and it says my name up there
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and it says Josh Gesler and he says back feels quote unquote good. So
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they record everything. So it's a little bit different for sure in Pro Bowl,
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just because you know, they have the luxury of being like, all
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right, this guy's down, he's a little beat up. Okay, we
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can give him a day he or like, let's just put him on the
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iel for a little bit. But yeah, for high school college guys,
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especially, like when it becomes like recruiting time, draft time, it's so
19:56
hot to be able to take time off, and yeah, it's such a
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great area. But I think just knowing yourself and being like, if there's
20:03
really something wrong, then you're got to look at it like it just might
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not be worth it to push through, because that could be a couple like
20:12
one year versus you know, a couple weeks off. So yeah, for
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sure, And you know, in a lot of cases, injuries gradually build
20:23
up to happening to where maybe you slowly get fatigued and then something happens where
20:27
you get hurt. But there are other times where it kind of comes out
20:30
of nowhere. And that was actually the case with me when I blew out
20:33
my elbow, I actually felt perfectly fine leading up to it. It was
20:37
during the off season of twenty seventeen, so between the twenty seventeen twenty eighteen
20:42
season, I was training and doing a pretty intensive velo program because I was
20:48
in independent ball at the time. And you know, even though I was
20:52
left handed, I still did not throw nearly hard enough that previous season.
20:56
I touched ninety one, but I sat like eighty seven to eighty nine with
21:00
not amazing numbers. So it's like, if you're gonna throw eighty seven to
21:03
eighty nine touching ninety one, like your stats have to be off the charts.
21:07
And so I knew to take the next step and to have an opportunity
21:11
and affiliated ball, like, I had to do whatever it took, and
21:14
it had to be maybe more aggressive with my training then I would recommend,
21:18
you know, a seventeen or an eighteen year old to do. And I
21:22
was doing a poll down. It was a full on running gown with a
21:25
three ounce ball, and leading up to it felt perfectly fine, and I
21:29
made a throw and like felt like a pop in my elbow and like it
21:33
felt really uncomfortable. It wasn't like a horrible pain, but it definitely did
21:37
not feel right, and like I got a little bit of a tingle in
21:38
my fingers, and I was like, that was weird. Like I'm gonna
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make one more throw and just see, just see what this next one feels
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like. And I was about to make another throw, and like something told
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me, don't throw this ball, so I stopped, stopped it, shut
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it down for the day. I knew something didn't feel right, but I
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thought, you know, I'll see how it feels tomorrow and then try to
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throw again and kindind of go from there. And it would feel fine up
22:03
until I got to about like eighty eighty five percent intensity under that, like
22:07
I could throw all day, felt perfectly fine, but the second I tried
22:10
to put a little bit of effort into it, it would grab, like
22:12
on the inside of my elbow. So after about three to four weeks of
22:15
that, I decided to get an MRI. And it came back and the
22:22
UCL was torn and there was like a bunch of bone chips in there as
22:25
well, So you know, I thought about whether I wanted the surgery or
22:29
not, and at the time I definitely wanted to still play, and then
22:33
in the back of mind, I was like, even if I'm not going
22:34
to play again after this, like I want to have an elbow that can
22:37
function and that I can still train or not train, but I can still
22:41
you know, throw and not throw with pain. So I had the surgery
22:45
and you know, came back and recovered really well. I didn't play again.
22:49
I ended up having coaching opportunities that just were open. There was more
22:55
doors opening for coaching the plane. It's pretty clear that it was time to
22:56
move in that direction. So I never came back and play competitively again.
23:00
But I did still train. I still did a full rehab program and you
23:04
know, did through off the mount and whatnot. I was still able to
23:07
get back up to ninety which was great after about fourteen fifteen months post surgery.
23:12
And I actually made my own rehab program because what happened was I was
23:19
in Arizona when I had the surgery. I had the surgery in March of
23:22
twenty eighteen, and I was doing rehab here for like the first couple months,
23:27
but after that I was actually going to Lima, Ohio to be the
23:32
head coach for a summer collegiate team. So I was going to go out
23:36
there and I was going to do physical just continue physical therapy there. But
23:40
I was in a pretty small town and there wasn't a lot of options for
23:44
like baseball specific trainers. But I did find a pet still and I did
23:48
like they helped me with my regular you know, massage therapy and helping me
23:52
with my strength exercise and all that. But I got the throwing program from
23:56
my original surgeon that did it, and I was like, you know what,
24:00
this program honestly is pretty outdated. Like at that time, people were
24:04
talking quite a bit how return to throwing programs just weren't very good. There
24:08
was just a ton of volume. There wasn't intensity considered in the throwing program.
24:14
And I was like, you know what, I'm like, I'm not
24:15
with an organization, I'm not the team, Like I can do whatever I
24:18
want. So I'm like, I'm going to make my own rehab throwing program.
24:22
And I thought about it, thought it through, talked to some other
24:25
people that have had experience with making rehabpers So I talked to some pts,
24:29
I talked to some coaches, and I decided to just formulate my own plan
24:33
and when they when the return of throwing program tells you to start throwing after
24:38
TJ, it's like four and a half months, I want to say,
24:41
post surgery're supposed to throw. Well, when I got to four and a
24:44
half months, I didn't feel anywhere near ready to play catch. I was
24:47
like, I can't even do a poll up without it hurting my elbow.
24:48
Like, if I can't do a pull up without it hurting my elbow,
24:51
I probably shouldn't be throwing at baseball. So I'm like, my main focus
24:55
was I need to get my strength numbers up high enough to where I feel
25:00
like I am close to being back to where I was pre surgery from a
25:02
strength perspective, because once again, if I'm doing exercises where I'm not even
25:07
externally rotating my shoulder and I'm feeling tension to my elbow when I flexed my
25:11
forearm or I'm doing a pull up or I'm doing some sort of polling exercise,
25:15
then I'm not ready. So I really committed to doing that until I
25:18
started my throwing program. So it ended up being what would have been.
25:23
It was August, so six months after surgery or five and a half months
25:26
after surgery, and I didn't do a baseball throw right away. I actually
25:30
made a PLO throw for my first throw. So for the first like four
25:33
weeks, I only did plioballs. I was doing like kneeling throw, so
25:37
I was on one knee, just doing a constrained like ninety ninety droll where
25:41
I'd counter rotate and then make a throw. Did that, I progressed to
25:45
standing up to where I did like a staggered stance throw and pivot picks.
25:49
Then I eventually worked up to doing just like an abbreviated role in where I
25:53
just took like one step forward into a throw and then built up to like
25:56
a regular delivery throw at APPLYO. So this all progressed over about three to
26:02
four weeks before I actually moved on to throwing the baseball. And I actually,
26:07
I'll have to pull up the programs. I wrote it down what I
26:10
was doing, but I actually think I made weighted baseball throws before I actually
26:14
threw a baseball as well. Once again, this was super low intensity,
26:17
like I'm not letting it rip. But the idea was that the lighter implements,
26:21
my arm speed's going to be higher, the peak force is potentially going
26:23
to be higher on the arm, so I was using heavier implements at the
26:26
lower intensities until I felt like I was in a place where I could throw
26:30
the baseball and actually felt like I wasn't going to be pushy, I wasn't
26:33
going to change my delivery, and something pretty amazing happened. It was like
26:37
the first time I threw the baseball, it felt pretty darn normal for it
26:44
being six months post TJ surgery. Most guys when they have surgery or their
26:48
first throw after surgery, it looks awful, right. They're like their elbows
26:51
down here, they're pushing the ball, they're throwing darts when they're throwing it,
26:55
And it's just because they haven't built that trust with the arm yet,
26:57
which makes sense, and the arm's not to go at crazy high speeds.
27:00
But by doing this like four week build up of where I was doing just
27:03
plows, building up to weighted baseballs of light catch, and then into the
27:07
baseball, like when I actually started throwing the baseball, it felt really really
27:11
good. It felt like I was able to progress quicker after that, so
27:15
I ended up still being like on the same time scale as a regular return
27:18
to moundwork or to being at full intensity. I just went a different way
27:22
about doing it. And because I took more time early on to actually make
27:27
sure I was strong enough and in a good place, I was able to
27:30
progress a little bit faster. So I'm not, by any means suggesting that
27:34
anyone listening to this does what I did. Like, I'm not a doctor.
27:38
I used myself essentially as a guinea pig, but it worked for me,
27:42
and I felt like it put me in a much better position to where
27:47
I was able to recover faster. I didn't feel like I had to change
27:51
my mechanics into you know, I didn't feel like I was putting extra stress
27:55
in my elbowe and having to repattern things at that point. But we dive
27:57
into that in a second. But I actually one positive of surgeries or of
28:03
just injuries in general, is there is extra downtime, so there's time for
28:08
you to think through what you actually need to improve. And then from a
28:11
throwing standpoint, like I was able to slowly build up my delivery into the
28:18
areas that I thought I needed to improve. Like so for me, my
28:19
back leg was really poor. I had a bad loading pattern. I was
28:22
super pushy, so I was like, you know what, as I'm building
28:25
back up, I am going to focus on that a lot while I'm at
28:27
these lower intensities with all these reps and basically repatter myself, reteach myself how
28:33
to throw as I'm coming back from surgery. Since I don't have to rush
28:34
back and be ready to go in game action, I can really remap this.
28:41
What are your thoughts on that, Like, you know, with the
28:42
back, maybe that's a little bit different. I don't know how slow of
28:45
a progression it was for throwing, but like, did you have a similar
28:48
approach to focusing on something mechanical when you were building back up since you had
28:52
more time and you're at a lower intensity. For me, I'm trying to
29:00
think back, but I'm pretty sure I didn't work on any kind of mechanical
29:04
stuff at the time because I was in a really good spot pre surgery.
29:11
I was like throwing the hardest I'd ever been up to ninety eight, and
29:15
so I was just hoping, I'll, you know, I think what I
29:18
was saying, I was all right, like I'm gonna take this downtime to
29:22
really improve and then I'm gonna throw a hundred when I come back. But
29:25
obviously that didn't happen at my Velo just tanked. But yeah, no,
29:30
that's a that's what Spencer Strada did, right, So he got TJ right
29:37
after he got drafted, and then he took that time to really build up.
29:41
I think what he was focusing on was like his mechanics. He wanted
29:45
to look like Trevor Bauer and just is lifting, and he just took that
29:52
valuable time and really developed himself into you know who he is today. So
29:57
yeah, I think one of the good things is that all that downtime you
30:00
can put into lifting and repatterning and like coming back way better than you went
30:07
before. But yeah, I think I think the biggest thing is like to
30:12
note rush it. Uh. It's pretty hot though. Like when I when
30:15
I was down, I was like, all right, I need to come
30:18
back as soon as possible. But you know, I want to say I
30:22
regret anything because it's just how it played out. But I think if I
30:27
had put more time into just lifting and just really building back then I could
30:33
have made a little bit more progress. But yeah, that's kind of what
30:37
I think. Yeah, No, that's that's a good point of people.
30:41
They want to rush back especially if it's like in season as different if it's
30:45
the off season, it makes it a little bit easier to take your time,
30:47
or if it's a you know, a TJ or surgery where you're out
30:51
for six plus months, like kind of have no choice but to go slow.
30:55
But I'd be curious, you know, for you you know that we
30:57
talked about a little bit with the mental side, but like injuries are very
31:02
much mental when you're coming back from it, Like you know, I know
31:04
for me personally, I didn't struggle with it too much. I would say
31:08
when I first let it go like one hundred percent, it definitely took a
31:11
while to like trust that, Okay, I can actually step on it and
31:14
let it go. I could get to like eighty five ninety percent and felt
31:17
good like that extra ten percent, It was like there was a little bit
31:19
of hesitation to truly let it go. And you know, many players that
31:25
I've coached that have had injuries, like there's been a similar feeling, and
31:30
it just takes a while to build back that confidence and to know that you
31:34
can let it go and that your arm is safe and that you can trust
31:37
it. Do you think there's been a similar process for you with the back
31:41
or not. Really do you feel like the throwing kind of just you picked
31:44
up where you left off with the throwing, uh throwing wise, Yeah,
31:49
I don't remember it being too difficult. It was. Yeah, No,
31:57
it was pretty smooth sailing. I mean I thought I was sing how you
32:01
know, like but you know, the villa gum wasn't showing that. But
32:05
it felt fine coming back. I didn't have any issues with it, but
32:09
I definitely have heard stories about like especially TJ guys. It's just like if
32:15
you come back throwing and like you're creating bad patterns you know, as you
32:20
said, like pushing and like stuff like that, that can really set you
32:23
back. So another thing is like a lot of people get into the heads
32:28
when they come back, and so they get a little yipped up and stuff
32:31
like that. So yeah, it's yeah, I think it's super important to
32:37
be able to yeah, just trust you. But I don't know how you
32:43
get around that though, Like you know, you probably just have to trust
32:45
it and just have like just know that you're put in the time to let
32:52
it heal and then you're just gonna like just trust it let it rip.
32:57
Yeah, at some point you just have to say SCREWT I'm gonna throw it.
33:00
I'm just gonna go for it. I mean, because if you don't,
33:02
if you live in that that timid range for too long, like your
33:06
performance is going to deteriorate, and then you're gonna have more mental struggles of
33:10
trying to get back to the old version of you. And there's one story
33:15
I have about Daniel Hudson who's still pitching for the Dodgers, and I don't
33:17
know, like this the crazy details. I don't know what he was going
33:20
through mentally, but back you know, shoot, it's probably been twelve years
33:23
ago. Now he's playing for the Diamondbacks. And this is how I knew
33:25
him well because growing up in Arizona, went to dineback games all the time,
33:29
and he was like a He was a really good pitcher for the Diamondbacks.
33:31
He was a starting pitcher, came up as a starter, did really
33:35
well, ended up having TJ rehabbed. During his last rehab outing before he
33:42
was gonna come back to the big leagues, he blew out again and had
33:45
to have another surgery, like literally, you know, twelve months or whatever
33:50
it was after the other one, had another surgery and came back and still
33:54
made it back to the big leagues. I think they moved into the bullpen
33:58
at that point, and he's been a lever ever since. But he's still
34:00
he's like mid thirties now, he's like thirty five at least, and he's
34:05
still throwing mid to high nineties. And I'm just like, if there was
34:07
ever a situation where it'd be tough to come back mentally, to me,
34:10
it would be in a situation like that where you're almost at the end of
34:15
your rehab and then bam, it happens again. And to me, at
34:19
least, all I'd be thinking about is like, Okay, I'm getting through
34:22
this rehab process again, is it going to happen again, or like,
34:23
at what point is it going to go? And that's just a really tough
34:27
thing. So, like, you know, once again, I don't know
34:29
the details of his story of like what he dealt with mentally, but from
34:31
the outside looking in, it looked like it was smooth sailing for him,
34:36
and that like there was really no extended period of time off other than the
34:39
standard rehab process, which is just absolutely incredible, and that he's been in
34:43
the big league still for the last you know, ten years, or whatever
34:46
it's been since then. So pretty cool. But are you familiar with Daniel
34:49
Hudson. No, I'm not. I don't know his story, but it
34:54
sounds really similar to co Reagan's. Reagan's is dominating the MLB right now,
35:02
and you know he had two Tommy Jones as well. I think I think
35:07
back to back like similar story was like he was just out of rehab and
35:10
then he just he blows out again, and so yeah, there definitely have
35:15
been a ton of guys who have gone through a lot of injuries and came
35:20
back better than before. So I think that's inspiring. I think, you
35:24
know, all these comeback stories I've been reading have been super inspiring. So
35:31
yeah, no, that's good. Do you know Brock Stewart at all from
35:35
when you were at tread? I watched him throw, and I know that
35:40
he's nasty because he's throwing like mid ninety cutters and high ninety FoST walls.
35:45
But other than that, I really don't really know his story or anything.
35:50
Yeah, he's he's ridiculous. If you look at his stuff now, it's
35:52
just like literally every pitch is an above average pitch, and I got to
35:57
I've got to see him up close and gotten to know him a little bit
36:00
over the years, just with him being in the Twins organization, and he
36:02
rehabbed with us in single A a couple of years ago, so I got
36:07
to know him a little bit then. But I don't know his exact surgeries
36:09
that he's had, but I do know that, like he was in the
36:10
big leagues with the Dodgers for a little bit, I think he was like
36:14
a low nineties guy, like ninety to ninety two. Maybe he would touch
36:16
a three or four. And I want to say he had shoulder issues.
36:21
I don't know if it was a shoulder surgery or what it was, but
36:24
had some sort of arm surgery and had really battled some injuries for a while
36:29
and is now throwing you know, high nineties, just throwing absolute gas,
36:35
and is you know, he's thirty three, maybe thirty four, and he's
36:38
throwing you know, three four miles an hour, harder on average than he
36:42
did before all of his injuries. And you know, I know he's done
36:45
a lot of really good work with tread and they've helped him, you know,
36:46
along the way. But it's just pretty incredible to just see it and
36:50
to see it in person he's like I said, I've been able to see
36:52
some of that process develop and it's just really incredible, And like you said,
36:55
it's just inspiring to see these guys overcome things. And I think regardless
37:00
whether you're overcoming an injury or anything outside of baseball, like you're always going
37:07
to there's always going to be some area in your life that you're going to
37:10
have to overcome an obstacle. And I think hearing stories like this is really
37:15
cool and just you can see people at the lowest of lows in whatever area
37:19
of their life it is and seeing them overcome it, whether it took a
37:22
year to come back or it took five years to come back, like the
37:25
story's still being written if you just keep pushing and keep trying to take it
37:30
one day at a time and be as good as you can that next day.
37:34
Yeah, for sure. And I think another part of the rehab process
37:37
that's really tough is that I know what the ranges we're in Surprise, Arizona,
37:44
and so all the rehabers stay at the complex, and so every single
37:50
one of their days become so monotonous. They go in nine am, do
37:54
rehab. They can't throw, they can't lift, they go back and then
38:00
they got nothing to do for like the rest of the day, you know,
38:02
five six hours. And so I think just having a hobby is so
38:07
important. And when I was going through rehab, I learned how to code.
38:12
So I was like, all right, I want to learn how to
38:15
code. And there was like a period of three to six months where I
38:21
literally just went in and two hours and I was done, and I was
38:25
done by eleven am, and I was like, all right, like what
38:29
am I going to do now? And so yeah, I just I just
38:32
immersed myself into coding and doing that. But yeah, I think having a
38:37
hobby, especially during your rehab process, is so important. Just having something
38:42
to do, preferably outside of just grinding call duty, which I've done as
38:49
well. But yeah, finding something like a little bit more productive to do,
38:52
I think would really help the mental side as well. For sure.
38:58
I want to go back to the coding. So well, number one,
39:00
what type of coding do you do? And then what are you what are
39:04
you using it for? Because I've wanted to learn how to code, but
39:07
the second I start looking at it, I'm like, Okay, I don't
39:08
have time to to learn this, right, now, but i'd love to
39:12
be able to so what what programming are you using and what are you using
39:15
it for. So at the time, from twenty twenty to twenty twenty three,
39:27
I was a big trade on So I would trade stocks every single day.
39:31
I'd wake up nine thirty am sometimes so Arizona would be like six thirty
39:37
and I'd be trading that every single day. And that was something that I
39:42
just loved doing and I was pretty good at and so I don't do it
39:45
as much right now, but back then it was like it was like trade
39:50
and then baseball, like that was my life. So something that I got
39:53
to interested in was algorithmic trading. And so trading is stressful and there's so
40:00
much emotions involved, and so I was like, maybe I can make the
40:05
computer do it and I'll code it and then he can do it for me.
40:08
And so that's kind of what I wanted to get to. And that
40:12
was like my angle. And so I learned Python and I went on You
40:17
to Me and it was a one hundred days Python challenge or something like that,
40:23
and so I did that. It was a really good course actually,
40:27
but yeah, I completed that and off of that, like I can pretty
40:31
much code whatever I want now, especially with chat GPT, So yeah,
40:37
that's cool. Yeah, I was just going to say that actually chat GPT
40:40
probably could expedite that learning process now. But that's great. I know.
40:46
It's another story to thought about, actually, because I was thinking about the
40:50
Rangers. Is Tyler Zombro. He has an incredible story. For those that
40:53
don't know, he was with the Rays in twenty twenty one in Triple A
40:59
and was with a line drive in the head, had a seizure on the
41:02
mound. I don't know all the details of exactly what happened, so I'm
41:07
sure you can look up the story online to know exactly what happened. But
41:10
it was scary, it was really, really, really bad, and he
41:15
managed to come back. I want to say it was the next season.
41:19
By the end of the next season, he was pitching in a professional game
41:22
again. And you know, he hasn't made it to the major leagues.
41:24
But like the fact that he came back after that and still played in a
41:29
game, Just like you want to talk about the mental side of overcoming something
41:31
of getting hit with a line drive where you almost lost your life to be
41:35
able to come back and still play like that was truly remarkable inspiring to me.
41:39
And you know, I'm inspired by him constantly when I talk to him
41:43
and think about that story. But if you haven't heard that one, I
41:45
definitely would recommend looking it up. I'm sure there's plenty of write ups on
41:51
his story, or maybe he's even been on a podcast talking about it.
41:53
But really cool and inspiring stuff, Yeah, for sure. And I think
41:59
his pretty famous now because of the especially in the baseball world because of Tred
42:04
and everything. But yeah, I was. I was in the clubhouse with
42:08
him in the Ranges and I would just annoy him and ask him all these
42:12
questions. But yeah, no, it's cool. Is he still playing right
42:16
now? You know, I know he was. He got hurt again this
42:22
year, so after the surgeon or sorry, after the head injury came back,
42:25
he had thrastic outlet syndrome. I do know that, and then something
42:29
happened again this spring training. So I think he's on the il right now.
42:31
I don't know exactly what he's doing, but I know he's still with
42:36
the Rangers, but I know he's not playing right now. He's on the
42:37
eye l Okay, Okay, that makes sense. Yeah, no, because
42:42
when I was playing in Hickory, I saw him just chilling in the crowd.
42:46
So I was like, oh, I don't know on Zambrosing, he's
42:50
probably just rehabbing in Charlotte. I don't know. He loves Charlotte, so
42:54
yeah, that's probably what he's doing. But yeah, I know he has
42:58
a really cool story for Yeah, well this is good to you know,
43:04
injuries. I like you said, we could talk about motivational stories all day,
43:07
and we'll definitely do that in future episodes, diving into players stories more
43:10
deeply and talk about all the learning lessons that we've taken we've taken from it.
43:15
But I think, you know, a couple things to wrap up with
43:17
with this episode is injuries when it comes to talking to your coach, like,
43:22
man, we can't really give you an answer, but I think building
43:25
that trust with a coach is important. And then also just knowing you know,
43:30
what is the injury, where is it bothering you, and if your
43:32
coach isn't tracking it, Like if you're able to track your velocity and see
43:35
like where you're trending, you can buy the arm care app. You can
43:37
use these things to to take care of yourself. But at the end of
43:42
the day, this is your career and you want to make sure that you're
43:44
taking care of yourself the best that you can. And there's really no right
43:49
answer, but I think it's it's important that you look within and that you
43:52
follow, you know, whatever you think is the right decision for you and
43:55
your career at the end of the day. Yeah, for sure. I
44:00
mean, injuries not fun, but if you can take advantage of that downtime,
44:05
then you can definitely come back better than you've ever been before. And
44:08
they've been so many guys have done that, so yeah, I'll just say
44:14
keep your head up and keep going. Yeah, good stuff, all right,
44:17
that's the pod