Latest / Stephanomics / Madrid’s Restaurants Face a Hard Road in the Post-Covid World

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Madrid’s Restaurants Face a Hard Road in the Post-Covid World · Stephanomics

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hello, Hello, and welcome to Stephanomics, the podcast that brings
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: the COVID global economy to you. And the sound you
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: just heard was the sound of lockdown lifting. In Madrid,
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: Spain had one of the toughest lockdowns in Europe. A
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: friend of mine tried to take a walk in week
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: one without a dog. She was quickly escorted home by
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: a shouty police drone. Now the restrictions are starting to
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: be lifted, and we have a great report for you
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: from our Spanish economy reporter Janette Newman as she reunites
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: with friends and finds out whether her local restaurants can
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: possibly stay in business serving a fraction of the usual
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: number of customers at tables two ms apart. We're also
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: going to hear from our Nordic economist Johanna Jeanson in
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: Stockholm about the very different approach that Sweden has taken
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: to COVID nineteen. This week, the main architect of Sweden's
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: lighter lockdown policy admitted the death toll in his country
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: had been too high. If he were facing the same
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: crisis today, he told Swedish radio he would take a
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: tougher line, whether it was right or wrong. Johanna says
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: it's not true that Sweden acted as it did to
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: protect its domestic economy. You can decide what you think
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: in a few minutes, but first, here's Jeannette with the
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: sound of Madrid reopening, and please do not adjust your set.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: I cursed that sound every morning for about six years,
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: a nearby shop owner rolling up the metal shutters covering
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: his storefront a screeching start to every day. But for
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: two months or in the confinement in the center of
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: Madrid where I live, the mornings were silent, so we're
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: the afternoons and evenings. The screeching started again about two
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: weeks ago. The sound still grates on me, but I
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: have a bit of a soft spot for it. Now
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: it's become a daily reminder that the city and the
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: broader Spanish economy are coming back to life. Spain's government
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: is gradually lifting one of Europe's strictest lockdowns in four stages,
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: province by province, and in fourteen day increments. It's as
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: if those of us living in Spain had been forced
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: to go on a fast for two months, and now
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: we're slowly reintroducing some of life's pleasures. First, a bicycle
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: ride outside, then visits with friends and family, eating and
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: dining out. Eventually travel in Madrid were in the second
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: week of what's known as AS one. Most noticeably, that
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: means madri Lanos have been allowed to drink and dine
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: outside at bars and restaurants the first time since mid March.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: The sounds of the city are slowly returning. That's this
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: Sunday before we entered Phase one. It's PM on the
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: Plasa Santana, a square in central Madrid. And this is
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: the next night in the same spot at the same time,
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: but now with outdoor seating on the terraces at fifty papacity.
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: We're also allowed to gather with up to ten people
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: at home. That's meant reunions with friends for the first
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: time in months. I visited friends for dinner on Friday,
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: our first gathering since March. Hello, Hello, I get that
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: the shared meills have been a welcome respite after the
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: long confinement. This is a celebration. The overpowering feeling, though,
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: is one of whiplash. Spain is a national mourning for
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: the more than twenty seven thousand people who have died
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: during the pandemic, and the country along with the rest
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: of the world is emerging into the most severe downturn
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: in living memory. Bloomberg Economics expects Spain and Italy to
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: be among the hardest hit countries in the world this year,
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: suffering economic contractions of eleven and respectively. That's fueled anger
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: and despair. Some in Spain have channeled their frustration into
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: a nightly cacophony that's known as a castro lada. That's
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: the banging together of pots and pans, a common form
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: of protest here. Every night for the past several weeks,
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: people have been making noise from their windows, balconies and
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: local plus us at nine pm. They're demonstrating against Spain's government,
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: a coalition between the center left Socialists and the far
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: left PODE. Most party protesters say the government responded slowly
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: to the onset of the pandemic and that the emergency
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: economic measures have been too little, too late. Now that
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: we're allowed to gather with friends, many people seem to
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: prefer to be outside their homes in the evening, So
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: the intensity of the castro ladas has eased in recent days,
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: but the frustrations and worries haven't. I have like a
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: hundred messages that I have to tell. It's like two
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: hours and then it's like it's better enough. Ophelia Marine
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: opened three of her seven restaurants in Madrid last week.
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: At this stage, only outdoor seating is allowed, and only
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: at fifty capath city. She says the authorities are focusing
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: too much on the minutia. They're missing the existential threat
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: facing many of Madrid's restaurants and bars. We spoke at
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: one of her restaurants, Lamul Cartman. In one of the locations,
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: we had um twenty three tables. Okay, so now you
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: have two cuts by half, twenty three by half, it's
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: eleven and a half. So okay, we said we're gonna
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: put twelve. You know, it's a big exactly, it's a
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: big platfor we have space, it's beautiful. Not many cars,
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: not many people. So the police comes and they removed
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: one of them. So they had they had definitely counted
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: exactly how many. Yes, yes, but doesn't make any sense
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: for who what good that makes. Spain also requires restaurants
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: to keep tables a socially distanced two apart that's about
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: six and a half feet. Ophelia says. The number seems arbitrary.
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: In France, social distances one meter. In Italy it's one
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: meter in some regions and one point eight in others.
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: In Germany one point five meters, the World Health Organization
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: says one. Spain's government says the restrictions on occupancy and
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: distance between patrons are necessary to ensure the country avoids
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: new outbreaks. Restaurant managers say they support safety measures, but
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: they say the current restrictions make it impossible to generate
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: enough revenue to cover the cost of reopening. That's one
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: of the reasons that more than two thirds of the
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: bars and restaurants in Madrid that are allowed to open
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: their outdoor terraces have remained shuttered. The average bar size
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: in Spain is around a hundred square meters roughly a
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: thousand square feet. The country's small, intimate eateries are part
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: of its Old World charm, but there are distinct disadvantage
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: in a socially distanced economy. Ophelia says she's worried that
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: even when Madrid's restaurants can start serving inside, revenue will
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: still suffer social distance. I think it's going to be
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: till you know phase three four. Who knows but social distance.
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: I think it's gonna stay for a while and which
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: that kills us. One option would be to step up
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: online food deliveries, but that's not as common in Spain
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: as in some other countries. Some restaurants have tried to
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: pivot quickly to eat commerce, only to realize the commissions
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: on existing platforms can be as much as thirty That's
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: untenable in an industry where margins are on average around
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: Madrid's Restaurant Association estimates that one in ten of the
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: city's twenty bars and restaurants could go under by the
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: end of the year. That's a big deal in Spain's economy.
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: Discretionary spending is a portion of economic output, meaning what
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: people spend on food, drink and other leisure activities, is
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: higher er than most other major economies. Also, restaurants and
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: bars employ more people in Spain than in any other
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: country in the European Union except Greece. That reflects, in
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: part the vital role tourism plays in the economy. Spain
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: was the second most visited country in the world last year.
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: Visitors are able to return starting in July, but hotel
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: managers say they don't expect to get back to the
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: glory days for at least several years. Spain's islands and
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: beachside resorts are already receiving reservations for the truncated summer season.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: Many hotel managers in Madrid, though, say they're likely to
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: remain shuttered through September. They won't be able to fill
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: their rooms without the conferences and business meetings that normally
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: bring people in July and August. Juan Luis de Lucas
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: Martin is an exception. The Hotel claud Age that he
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: manages is among the few open in the city. Prince
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: has been okay, Occupancy has been well horrible. Spaniards still
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: aren't allowed to travel between provinces, with some exceptions. Those
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: who have booked rooms at the cloud Edge have come
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: to Madrid to see their doctors or lawyers, or in
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: some cases meet up with a loved one. I understand
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: all my colleagues. We have decided not to open until
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: September because there will be nothing we're opening. Nearly all
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: the adults in Madrid are closed, and our records on
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: the best day as Albin eighteen rooms booked. If Mortel
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: were open, it would be absolute disaster. Because there's no demand.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: That's eighteen out of a hundred and fourteen total rooms.
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: A lot of workers in the restaurant and hotel sectors
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: are expected to lose their jobs this year. That's one
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: reason that Spain Central Bank expects the unemployment rate to
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: hit around from an already high fourteen percent before the pandemic.
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: The sudden loss of so many jobs has led the
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: long lines at food banks around Madrid. Yolanda Waters Barsonia
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: helps organize, is the one in her neighborhood of a Luche.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: When the virus came then it was just disastrous. All
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: this very precarious and very unstable job was gone completely.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: You land another volunteers feed around families each week. All
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: of a sudden, we had people coming in saying, you
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: know what, I have no job, I have nothing to eat,
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: no money to pay the rent, no money to nothing.
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  Speaker 1: Many who show up worked as part time waiters, cleaning
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: homes or taking care of the elderly, but some neighbors
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  Speaker 1: are too embarrassed to join the queue for the bags
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: of food. One day we saw somebody picking some fruit
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: from that that's been behind this fruit shop here, and
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: we told this man why don't you come, we have
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: so much food and said, no, my wife doesn't want
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: me to be there on the queue. We don't want
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: we we can we we live here all our life.
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: How can we be on that queue? So it's really humiliating,
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  Speaker 1: really really. Some of the waiters and other workers have
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: been temporarily laid off, but they still haven't received their
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: furlough payments, so they can't pay their bills. Spain's furlough
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: and unemployment system has been overwhelmed during the crisis. As
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: the virus has slowed, it spread and Spain's economy slowly reopens,
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: Yolanda says the number of new people queuing at the
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: food bank has also slowed, but the future still remains
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: bleak for many. Ninfa Sanchez Diaz had been working thirty
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: hours a week taking care of elderly people in their homes.
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: Since the pandemic, she's been working half at and isn't
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: earning enough money to pay rent or feed her family. Well,
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: the future looks green if we have more quarant times
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: and with social distancing, and with the number of elderly
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: people who have died. I don't know what kind of
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: hiring or firing or jobs will be available. I don't
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: know what's going to happen. We'll live for today and tomorrow.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: We'll see. Amid so many and certainties, one thing seems clear.
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: The V shaped recovery that economists had anticipated from many
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: countries now seems unlikely. In Spain and elsewhere. It will
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: be more of a slog than a snap back. Jeanette
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: Newman bloombergs so, Spain is one example of a European
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: country now starting to emerge from from lockdown. But of
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: course we know in Europe that Sweden has taken a
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: very different approach, and I thought it was about time
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: that Stephanomics found out a bit more about that from
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: our Nordic economist, Johannah Janson. Johannah, very nice to have
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: you back on Stephanomics. Tell us a bit about Sweden.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think we are all familiar now with
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: the idea that Sweden has had a looser approach to
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: locking down the economy. That does seem to have helped
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: sustain economic growth, at least in the first few months
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: of the year. But how are things looking now, Yes,
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: that's right, I mean, it's it's it's really true that
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: Swede has had a different approach, and the main difference
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: I think is that a lot of the measures that
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: are that are imposed here are voluntary, and I think
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: that means that it may look a bit more lax
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: seen from the outside than what we are experiencing here.
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: But it is true that it is less strict than
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: than in most countries. If we look at, for example,
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: that stringency index that Oxford Oxford University has compiled. Uh
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: that index is around fifty in Sweden and it's eighty
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: in other European countries. So so for sure that's less strict.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: And yes, you're right, Stephanie, it's been we've had less
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: of a hit to the economy in the first quarter,
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: when when most all the Nordics, Norway, Finland and also
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: the euro Area countries took a large hit somewhere down
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: to percent quardroom quarter, Sweden actually managed to eke out
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: point one percent growth. But but will we will take
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: a hit in the second quarter, I'm sure of that,
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: but it will probably be less less deep than we're
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: seeing in in other European countries. And just thinking about
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: global markets, I mean, we know that Sweden is a
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: very exposed economy, very involved in global trade, has been
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: affected by the downturn in the global economy. When you
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: look at these sort of high frequency things, are you
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: starting to see some some green shoots in terms of
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: the external activity or is it too soon? I think no,
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: not in terms of the external activity. Actually, if we
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: look at the when we look at those high frequency indicators,
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: it's mainly that they've turned for the better. Firstly in
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: terms of the number of new cases. We're seeing a
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: slight downturn there. Secondly in terms of mobility domestic mobility,
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: that people are daring to go to the store which
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: they didn't do before, or they they're starting to take
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: their car to work. Um, they're still not h taking
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: the subway, but they're taking their car to work. And
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: we're seeing less financial stress. So these are the main
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: three green shoots. But no, not in terms of external demand,
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: and I think those effects will linger for longer. If
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: we look at UM it's not high frequency indicators, but
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: it's relatively fast indecurations in terms of purchasing managers index
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: for for the export sector, for example, we're seeing small
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: fish hooks uh slight slight recovery, but quite an unimpressive
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: recovery in the last figures, So there's still a worsening
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: in terms of they're more companies seeing a worsening of
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: them and worsening of order intake. But the worsening has
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: um has slowed down. That's where we are in terms
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: of export demand. And not wanting to stray too far
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: off economics, but I'm interested in how you and your
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: friends and family have have thought about the so called
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: Swedish experiment. Are people sitting in Sweden thinking, yeah, our
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: government was very smart and very brave and they've taken
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: the right decision, or or are there are there a
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: lot of worries because obviously there has been a much
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: higher mortality rate and a lot, no more cases than
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: in your Nordic neighbors. Yes, definitely. I mean I think
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: in all countries there's been a debate on what to
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: do and what not to do. And because this pandemic
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: mixes economic reasoning with fear and worries about family and relatives,
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: so there's been a lot of debate amongst sciences here
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: and among citizens. But I think the reasons for Sweden's
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: lacks approach has not been I mean, herd immunity has
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: not been the main reason. Neither has economics. It's more
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: been an effect of the Sweden's constitution, which says that
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: the government is not in charge here, it's the public
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: health authority and they've they've taken the decisions. So and
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: so that's been the thing, and also I guess a
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: cultural thing that Swedes are. We're not We're not used
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: to we're not imposing laws when it comes to containment measures.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: We're instead we're asked to work from home, we're asked
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: not to travel too far from our domicile. So and
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: people seem to be adhering to those advice. But you're right,
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: mortality has been higher. The last numbers show that mortality
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: per million inhabitants here is around four hund and forty,
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: which is four times higher than in Germany. It's less
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: than in the UK, and it's less than in Italy
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: for example, but much higher than in the Nordic neighbors
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: and in Germany for example. So and that's been that's
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: also part of the debate. And in fact, now that
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: the government has just said that they will open an
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: inquiry into how this COVID nineteen pandemic has been handled,
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: so the debate will continue. I'm sure that's very interesting.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: You said something I have to be I didn't know,
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: which is that this is partly about because the public
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: health authorities have been the ones constitutionally in charge. Yes,
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: So I think the outside, the perception and possibly particularly
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: among people who thought that other countries should have taken
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: this approach, was that Sweden had been very cool and
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: calculated and was putting a long term view of the
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: economy ahead of the short term human consequences, or very
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: least weighing the two things in the short term somewhat differently.
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: But the suggestion from what you're saying is this was
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: actually taken. This was a decision based on the long
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: term yest public health costs and benefits. Absolutely, and I
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: think a lot of this I mean, as I said,
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: economics has never been cited as a reason for this
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: more relaxed lockdown. Ah. And the Swedish constitution prevents the
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: government from interfering in the strategy of independent administrative bodies
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: that could be the RIX Bank, now it's the public
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: health authority. So yes, and it's also one the main
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: argument i'd say is, as you say, the overall public
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: health but also the egalitarian approach. For example, a Swedish schools.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: Primary schools have been kept open. Secondary schools have been
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: closed in universities have been closed, but primary schools have
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: been kept open. And the argument there is that it's
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: much tougher for households are less well off to care
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: for children at home and keep them get them back
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: into the schooling mode. One school is open again, and
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: so that's been an important argument throughout this crisis. I'm
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: slightly worried that we're going to come to the same
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: conclusion that we always come to about, particularly about Sweden
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: but also sometimes the other Nordic economies, that they do
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: things better than we do, but we wouldn't be able
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: to do the same thing that they may be. So yes, well,
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: I mean, because the conclusion you might draw is that,
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: as usual, Sweden has turned out to be quite shrewd
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: and smart in its approach, as well as having in
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: quite a inclusive attitude to its citizens worrying about the
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: welfare of citizens. But it does rely, as you mentioned
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: at the start, on people not only having that sense
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: of fellow feeling but also doing what they're voluntarily encouraged
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: to do, as opposed to told being told, you know,
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: we can't help wondering that the voluntary approach to lockdown
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: in the US and the UK would have been a
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: bit less successful. Yes, one of my we may never know.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: But also I think a worrying sign though, is that
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: high mortality rate. That's that's going to be. I think
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: once this year passes and once we see which countries
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: have fared in total mortality, that will be like the
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: final verdict over this how we've handled this pandemic, because
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: as it is, as it stands now, this this relatively
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: high mortality rate for Sweden must be seen as something
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: that's that's not a success in this in this pandemic.
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: I love the idea, Johanna, of the fish hook recovery.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: You know, we've been talking about the bees and the ws,
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: but of course our Nordic, our Swedish economist talks to
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: us about fish hooks. I like it, Johanna, Thank you
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: very much. We will, as you say, we will need
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: to wait a year to see really, uh what how
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: things have panned out, but I suspect we'll have you
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: on the program before then. Thank you very much, Stephanie.
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to Stephanomics. We'll be back next week
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: with more on how COVID nineteen is turning the global
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: economy upside down, and remember you can always find us
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: on the Bloomberg Terminal, website, app, or wherever you get
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: your podcasts. This episode was produced by Magnus Hendrickson. Special
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: thanks to Jeanette Newman, Johanna Jeanson, Laura Milan, and Thomas Galtieri.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: Lucy Meekin is the acting executive producer of Stephonomics and
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: the head of Bloomberg podcast is Francesca Levy.