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Treat Your Humans Like Humans · The Talent Trade

• 0:00
  Stephanie Maas: Welcome to The Talent Trade. I am your host,
• 0:04
  Stephanie Maas, partner with ThinkingAhead Executive Search.
• 0:10
  Today I am super excited to have one of ThinkingAhead's greats
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  from the life sciences practice with us, Jessica Gurley, welcome
• 0:23
  Jessica.
• 0:24
  Jessica Gurley: Thank you. I'm happy to be here.
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  Unknown: Yay. So Jessica recruits in our life sciences
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  practice a life changing niche. Jessica, what I'd love to do is
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  turn it over to you, do a little bit more of an introduction of
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  yourself and your niche, and then we'll talk about how you as
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  a recruiter in that space stand out from the crowd?
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  Jessica Gurley: Great. So a quick definition of Life
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  Sciences is anything from pharmaceutical companies, device
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  companies, biotech diagnostics, so anything that you would
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  consume from a health perspective is considered Life
• 0:56
  Sciences. Actually, even veterinary stuff is considered
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  Life Sciences. My specific niches are more what we would
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  refer to as the commercial side of the business. So that would
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  be sales. So the sales reps that go into the office, marketing
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  the people behind the scenes, creating the specific stories,
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  access, health economics, which helps and supports access, being
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  able to approach insurance companies the government to make
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  cases on why access should be allowed for this. They do
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  economic models and spreadsheets and then additionally
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  reimbursement. So after you get a prescription or something
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  given to you by your doctor, the rebates, the rewards, the
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  coding, all of those things, reimbursement is something else
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  that I recruit in.
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  Unknown: Sounds super complicated, but good. Okay, so
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  you have been in this niche. You rule the roost. Tell us, what do
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  you do different than other recruiters in your space, other
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  recruiters, period. How do you stand out from the crowd?
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  Jessica Gurley: One of the first things I do, no matter what the
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  situation is, I don't come out at a potential client or a
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  candidate pitching something at them, whether it be my services
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  or the job that I'm currently working on. I work and
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  intentionally position myself as wanting to get to know my
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  candidate. I always do a little pre ramble or preface of I don't
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  know what other recruiters you've worked with, but I'm not
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  going to come out here and pitch at you. That's not my style. I
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  would rather take a few minutes to learn about you, especially
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  from the candidate side, with the client side, I might
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  approach it a little bit differently. We'll say, Hey,
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  thank you so much for taking this call. What would you like
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  to discuss first? Would you like to discuss your needs or your
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  organization or things that I should know about you? Or would
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  you like to talk of what thinking ahead can do? I always
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  put the ball in their court and try to set up a conversation
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  about them first, or what makes sense for them to talk about and
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  get out first. I just think it disarms them, and it really
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  makes me seem because I am more invested in them as either a
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  person or an organization, versus my own agenda and what
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  I'm trying to accomplish. One of the other things that I do, that
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  I hear as the biggest complaint, and that I'm so thankful that
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  thinking ahead trains on in our culture is follow through. I
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  actually was talking to a COO yesterday, and she was telling
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  me about some of her experiences, or some of her, you
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  know, high level colleagues experiences on how
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  unprofessional it is to coast candidates. And she would say,
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  even at C suite level recruiters that are working with CEOs coo
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  CFOs, they're getting ghosted even after like two interviews,
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  and not hearing back from the recruiter on their status of
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  their the progress and the interview process. And she was
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  saying it is so bad out there. It's wild that recruiters would
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  even consider that being something ethical to do or
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  something that's okay to do. It's interesting to hear that,
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  because that would never have been something that I thought
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  was okay. I'm happy that thinking ahead has trained and
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  is really adamant about the way that we conduct ourselves in the
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  marketplace. And you know, the truth of it is we are paid to
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  deliver good news and we are paid to deliver bad news. That's
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  our job is to coach people through the ups and the downs.
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  Think about any job that you've had. It can be scary. It can be
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  intimidating, depending on where you are in your life or where
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  you are in your career. Our job is to help support them. And if
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  you ghost them, that only looks bad on you, and that leaves them
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  kind of feeling like, Well, did I do something? You know, it's
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  really about supporting that person through the process from
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  the very beginning to either an offer acceptance or through the
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  middle, where it's like, hey, they are going to move forward
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  with another candidate, and these are the reasons why. So
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  ghosting is something that I hear very, very, very frequently
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  as the number one issue that people have with recruiters. So
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  follow through. Are important. Consistency, I would say, is the
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  other piece of how I work and stand out. And the longer I've
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  been doing this, the more I hear this feedback. You know,
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  repetition really works. The way that thinking ahead sets up
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  culture with the training, the way that we operate in the
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  marketplace and our business model is repetition. I did some
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  Googling and, you know, just backed up some of the things
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  that we were taught that the brain needs five to seven times
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  before it can transition from a short term to a long term
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  memory. So it's really important that when you're first starting
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  to reach out to somebody, that you're doing it consistently,
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  and you're doing it in a pattern that will help them remember
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  you? I've had people, after a year of me calling on them and
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  just doing this pattern, say you've been so persistent, you
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  haven't given up. Your name is recognizable to me now, and I'm
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  reaching out to you to talk about this specific thing. The
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  other thing once you have that initial conversation is keeping
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  in touch with them quarterly at a minimum, but typically it is
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  best to come to an agreement on what that should look like. And
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  I always make sure that I ask that, is it okay that we stay in
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  touch every three months, or does it need to be more
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  frequent? Does it need to be less frequent and getting that
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  buy in on what the consistency would look like, and then again,
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  following through and doing it, and even if it's just as simple
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  as a message of, we haven't talked in three months like we
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  talked about, I am holding up my part of the bargain. I'm giving
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  you a call being intentional. And as I continue to do this
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  process again, received so much positive feedback about how
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  effective this is. I was also talking with another C suite
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  individual, and she was telling me her product just got FDA
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  approval, which means it can go from a clinical stage into the
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  FDA to then be able to be released to the public. And she
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  said that she was so agitated that recruiters came out of the
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  woodwork to reach out to her about something very
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  transactional. And she was like, why would I even consider a
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  relationship with them when they weren't previously consistent?
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  She's like, you call me, you know, very consistently. But she
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  was like, you're one of the only recruiters that I actually pick
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  up, because you've been consistent through the downs.
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  And she just, I mean, flat out, said, annoys me when random
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  recruiters I've talked to once come out of the woodwork when
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  they see an announcement about something that's just not a good
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  way to build ongoing relationships and trust,
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  especially with people in this industry that get bombarded with
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  recruiters. And Life Sciences is a very saturated market with
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  recruiters.
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  Unknown: It sounds like one of your cornerstones for standing
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  apart from the crowd is how you treat people. It's about them,
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  not about you. You do follow through. You do what you say
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  you're going to do. There's consistency. Sounds like you
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  bring a lot of empathy to your practice, and just have made a
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  practice of treating people well.
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  Jessica Gurley: Oh, thank you. That's very sweet. I mean, I try
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  to treat people like people. I mean, that's why I got into this
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  business, was because I wanted to feel very emotionally
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  connected to the thing that I was doing every day. And like I
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  took one of those quizzes about what you should do with your
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  life at like, 38 and nurturing and hospitality and care came up
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  at the very top of my skill set. So one of the reasons that
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  attracted me to recruiting was the long, ongoing relationships
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  and getting to the point where you're talking about not only
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  business related things, but very personal things. Like,
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  people know how old my children are. They know what grade
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  they're going into. You know, it's building these more in
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  depth things than just, hey, this drug is launching. Hey,
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  you're expanding. How can I work with you to put money in my
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  pocket? Yeah, I really love that part of the business, and I say
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  that to people when I'm getting to know them as I love to hear
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  people's stories. What made you get into this? What made you
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  pick the transitions that you did? So it's always specifically
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  interesting to hear one of those more niche things and like, how
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  did you fall into that? Or what interests you about it? Well,
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  tell me about what made you want to do this and starting the
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  conversation out that way. So yeah, I mean, I would would say,
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  I do pride myself on being a very relational person and
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  finding a lot of joy in that day in and day out.
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  Unknown: And that definitely makes you stand out. Now, what I
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  think is super fascinating about you is you have this high human
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  touch, Relational Approach, and yet you become one of the firm's
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  kind of gurus, innovators of this technological approach to
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  doing what you do.
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  Jessica Gurley: I really lean into technology. You know, to
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  learn things. I listen to audiobooks, I listen to
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  podcasts, I watch a lot of documentaries. That's my
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  learning style, is audio and visual. I have a harder time.
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  I'm a slightly dyslexic, and I have a harder time reading and
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  comprehending information that way. So I lean in technology in
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  those ways, because I see the better. Fits of it. So some of
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  the things that help me, and I feel like can bring a more
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  differentiating fact, where other recruiters don't do it,
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  but then it can either cut down on time, or it can help
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  personalize you. So technology can be your friend if you use it
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  effectively. Too much of anything is bad, but chatgpt
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  helps me when I need it to just be smoother and more concise
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  with my messaging, especially the end of the day, when my
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  brain is really tired and I'm trying to write a message and
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  it's just these ongoing I have a really hard time with run on
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  sentences. That's always been an issue of mine since I was a
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  small child, I would get dinged constantly for that. And so I
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  will put ideas down in my crazy long run on sentences and put
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  them in a chat GPT when I just don't have any more brain power.
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  And I usually say, make it smoother, more concise and more
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  professional, and it will help me funnel my thoughts into a way
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  that are just more readable. Secondly, I really struggled
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  with this job being very phone based, because I had always done
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  outside sales, and I always attribute it my sales success,
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  true or not. Maybe it's my own insecurities, but from the fact
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  that people could see me and inner interact with me, see my
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  energy, see my hand motions, just see my smile and just my
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  energy of who I am. So a phone job, at some level, really
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  intimidated me, because I'm like, they're not getting to
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  know me. They're not seeing me. They're not seeing the
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  enthusiasm that I'm bringing. They're not seeing my the
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  nuances of how I interact with someone. So I use LinkedIn as a
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  way to not only discuss personal things, where I'll post about my
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  postpartum depression or my stepdaughter in Alabama, or my
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  son or my other, you know, my family or whatever. But I also
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  use it as professional engagement, because it gives me
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  a more holistic image, I guess, in the marketplace is the best
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  way to put it or brand, where I just don't go on and talk about,
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  hey, I have this job listing. Hey, I have this job listing.
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  Hey, I have this job listing. You know, I think with
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  technology, it's it can be a two edged sword, where you do feel
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  more distance because it's not as personal, but you can use
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  that tools, those tools, to make yourself a more holistic person,
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  to somebody. The other thing that I do to cut down on time is
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  I do use a bookings link, but I do it, I feel like in an
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  appropriate manner where it still is very personalized. I
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  don't just say book here. It's like I might have an engagement
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  through LinkedIn or through a phone call, and I'll say, Hey,
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  I'm gonna send you an email, the fastest way for both of us to do
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  this, instead of going back and forth 100 times or missing it is
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  I'm going to send you an email, click the red link and pick a
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  time for us to connect like I don't do it as just shoving it
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  out into the marketplace and being super impersonal about it.
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  I use it as a personal way to help streamline interactions.
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  And I don't do it all the time. It really depends on the
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  scenario, and I feel like I use it to my advantage when I think
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  it's necessary, and then sometimes I don't when I feel
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  like it makes it more impersonal. It just is a kind of
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  a toss up and a gut reaction. The last thing that I do, that I
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  have found to be very effective, is using video marketing
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  campaigns to engage with potential candidates. And the
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  reason that I really leaned into this was because it made sense
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  to me again. I learned through video content. I learned through
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  documentaries, through little short snippets on Instagram or
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  reels or whatever, to learn about a specific topic in a very
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  short amount of time to then retain it. And when the idea
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  came up, I was like, Oh, I instantly connect to this, which
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  probably has fed into my success, because I believe in
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  how it can work and impact someone. So one of the things
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  that I do is, when I do have a search, I sit and put together a
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  minute to a minute and a half overview of what the position
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  is, why it's an exciting company, the benefits of the
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  company or the job, and then just some list out items of
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  qualifications and who the company is looking For, and if
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  you feel like you're the right fit, feel free to reach out to
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  me or pass it on to somebody else. And the responses that
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  I've gotten from candidates has been so overwhelmingly positive,
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  where they say things like, I wouldn't have reached out to
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  you. It made it more intriguing. It made me feel more comfortable
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  calling you. It excited me about the opportunity, and that
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  engagement and more initial buy in makes it having a more easier
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  conversation on the back end, about getting to know them, and
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  then additionally talking about because they have, like, a
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  little preview of what what it is that they're engaging with.
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  Additionally, I've taken that concept and talked to hiring
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  manager. About it, and they really understand it, and it's
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  so different than any of the other recruiters that they have
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  engaged with where they're like, Oh, that makes tons of sense,
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  because everyone kind of understands that we live in a
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  very add space. Now, with our culture, you have someone's
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  attention for a minute, a minute and a half, and then you use
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  them. So, you know, videos made up 82% of all internet traffic
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  in 2022 over 2.6 billion people around the world use YouTube
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  every month, and viewers retain 95% of messages when watching it
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  on video, versus 10% through text. And I've seen that tenfold
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  in my efforts this year with recruiting, it's just the way
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  that our society learns. So why not utilize it in a way to
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  again, personalize yourself and stand out where people know my
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  name, they know my voice, they know my face. I'm not just a
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  flat screen to them, I'm three dimensional. And then pull a lot
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  of energy behind what I'm talking about, and they can see
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  the enthusiasm that I have about the opportunity and transfer it
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  to them. Dude, that's awesome. I really feel like you bring this
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  ying and yang of being incredibly focused on the human,
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  the individual, and yet, at the same time, what we just heard
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  was a tremendous amount of relying on technology for
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  efficiencies and to get to folks you wouldn't otherwise get to,
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  to get to the human Yeah, so I was a sales rep. I did call on
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  these people, and I did have interactions with the people
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  that I recruit. And I understand how that train works together,
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  so I understand if the economic story doesn't work, then you can
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  have access. If you can have access, then you have a more
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  challenging marketing story. If you have a challenging marketing
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  story, the sales rep can't do their job. So because of my
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  experience in life sciences, with some of the positions I
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  had, it's really easy for me to pull through that narrative and
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  understand the nuances of those five buckets to be super
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  effective, not only in in focus, but in how everyone collaborates
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  together, and then at the end of the day, how those things help
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  reach patients, to help have a better quality of life, or even
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  save their life. So I think that previous experience before
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  becoming a recruiter in this space also makes me stand out,
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  because I can have very transparent conversations with
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  Hey, when I was a rep, I understood that access I
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  couldn't do my job without it, and I understand that you can't
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  make good access stories if you don't have the right economic
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  models. And if you don't have the right economic models, it's
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  because the clinical trials are missing something. So it is this
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  domino effect that I can very confidently speak to across
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  those five or six areas, and especially within marketing and
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  sales. Being a sales rep, it's given me a lot of confidence and
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  buy in and security and like the circle of trust, because I've
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  been those people, and that just immediately takes down walls
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  with the marketing people. The same thing, you know, I
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  understand what their work is. I understand their interactions
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  with sales people. I feel like that also helps me stand out and
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  give me an edge against other life science recruiters.
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  Unknown: So folks, couple key takeaways here, treat your
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  humans like humans. Use technology to give you an edge
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  and get to those humans faster and recruiting in a niche that
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  you have a passion for, it is a difference maker, and it sounds
• 18:26
  like you have definitely found your people, too.
• 18:29
  Jessica Gurley: Thank you.