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The Cher Episode · Stuff You Should Know

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: Chuck and Jerry's here too, And this is stuff you
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: should know. Stuff you should know.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: Is that your auto tune?
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: Uh?
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: I told you turn that off?
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: It's stuck on on. It's stuck on.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Awesome, Yeah, it's And this wasn't even intentional, but here
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: we are doing another biography of another gay icon.
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: Another Well, she's not gay, she's an icon of the
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: gay community.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: Chuck, Well, that's what I meant.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: I know. Yeah, I'm just being contrarian already. Yeah, I know,
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: I'm really feeling it. I'm full of pee and vinegar today.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: Oh we say P and V at our house for
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: our dog Gibson. He's full of P and V all
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: the time.
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: That's awesome. How's he doing.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: He's good. He's a lot to handle, but he's an
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: awesome sweet boy.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: He's got to be pretty big by now. His paws
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: were huge as a puppy. He is.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: He's pretty large. I mean he's a full, full, full grown.
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: Doggie like Clifford large.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: No, no, no, he's not oversized, but he's a big boy.
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: Well, shout out to Gibson and shout out to Share.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: We're doing an entire episode on right now.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: As you said, do you mean Sherilyn Sarkisian?
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: Yes, I do. I do. And when I saw that,
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: I was like, I knew she was Armenian. I never
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: thought about it up until this moment, but I just
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: knew she was Armenian in heritage.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I mean I think one thing Share sort
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: of played with over the years was some kind of
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: ambiguous ethnicity.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: That's one way you could put it.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: Sure, But yeah, she's a Her father, John Paul Sarchizian,
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: was Armenian. He was a horse breeder and a truck
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: driver who had addiction troubles. So he got divorced from
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: her mother before Chare was a year old, which would
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: have been nineteen forty seven, because cher was born in
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: El Central California in nineteen forty six.
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: That's right, you were studying me. Yeah, I read Chuck
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: that her mother, Georgia, and her father, John Paul, got
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: married two more times, so they were married a total
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: of three times.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And I think her mother, Georgia Holt, who was
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: an actress, she was married like eight times.
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: Eight times from what I saw. Yeah, I think Georgie's
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: mom had her when she was thirteen or something like that,
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: and so they had a very share had a very
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: interesting upbringing, and I had never seen it compared to Mermaids,
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: but it really strikes me from some of the interviews
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: and articles I've read about her that her upbringing was
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: a lot like Winona Ryder's upbringing.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: And Mates, which is a movie Share was in in
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: case you're wondering, Well, right, I was even brought up.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: But man, that movie is so good. I saw it
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: for the first time, just like last year, and it
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: is a really good movie.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah. You know, Cher is one of my favorite actors.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: When I look through her filmography. Mm hmm, it's just
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: like it's a murderer's row of great parts and great films.
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, and we'll talk about those. Apparently, as
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: it turns out, she wanted to be a performer from
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: a very young age. I saw something like four, she
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: saw Dumbo and was like, I'm going to be a
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: performer like Dumbo. Yeah, and she actually kind of put
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: her money where her mouth is at age eleven. I
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: love precocious kids stories like this. She put on a
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: production of Oklahoma and apparently could only get other girls
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: to be in the show with her, so she just
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: went ahead and played all the male parts herself.
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: I know. That's a great story. And just a few
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: years after that, Warren Baty would be sleeping with her.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like just a few years when she was like
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: six and he was twenty five. Right, yeah, what is
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: it with powerful men in that?
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: I mean, Warren Beatty had a long history of dating
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: teenagers back when, you know, back when I'm not going
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: to say it's like it was super cool to do that,
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: but back when you could do that and get away
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: with it without being you know.
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: Without having to kill al or something the guy who
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: knows about it while he's in prison exactly.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: They very famously, she was driving in Hollywood when she
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: was sixteen. He almost hit her with the car and
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: she got out and was like, are you crazy? And
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: she was like, oh my god, you're Warren Batty and
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: he was like, why don't you come back to my
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: place and have dinner, And that's what happened. She came
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: home at two in the morning. Her parents were not thrilled,
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: but apparently Warren is very charming and called up Georgia
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: Holt called up her mom and made his case, and
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: she was like, okay, date my sixteen year old.
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: I know that was back then when you could just
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: pick up the phone and be.
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: Like come on right exactly.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: So Share dropped out of high school. Not a lot
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: of great performing opportunities while you're in high school, So
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: she dropped out and she tried to make it in
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: the show in show business. Initially she wanted to be
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: an actor, but she met another guy who would have
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: a much bigger impact on her life than even Warren Batty,
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: a guy named Salvatore Bono, better known as Sonny Bono.
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: He was twelve years older than her, rather than just
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: the traditional nine that Warren Batty had established, the traditional nine,
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: and she was sixteen seventeen something like that when they
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: met in Los Angeles, and both of them swear that
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: their relationship was platonic at first. That she had moved
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: into a group home with some other women, and apparently
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: that housing opportunity fell through or ran out, and she
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: met Sonny Bono and he's like, why don't you move
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: in with me and clean my house? And that's supposedly
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: how it was at and then of course it did
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: not last very long, and they got married within two years,
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: I think, although it wasn't legal for another seven for
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: seven years, five years five is just as good an
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: ustimate as seven.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she was eighteen when they got sort of fake
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: married in nineteen sixty four. They did have a ceremony,
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: but it wasn't a legal wedding, and it became legal
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: like you said, in nineteen sixty nine, and Sonny was
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: working for music impresario Phil Spector at the time, who
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: was like, Hey, this kid you got has got an
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: outstanding voice. Also love Shehar's voice, by the way, and
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: she started singing back up for Phil Spector on like
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: some really big songs like You've Lost That Love and
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: Feeling by the Righteous Brothers and Be My Baby by
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: the Ronettes.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so in two years she's met Warren Baby and
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: dated him, met Sonny Bono, moved in with him, and
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: is singing back up on Phil Spector songs by age seventeen.
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: Have to start it happening for really quickly, And from
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: that point on things started happening happening very quickly because
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: Sonny Bono was making things happen, Like you said, he
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: was working for Phil Spector, and so he was. I
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: guess he and Phil were both like this, she needs
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: like her own career. Apparently there's an anecdote where when
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: she was singing back up on some of those songs,
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: Phil Spector kept telling you to like, back up further
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: and further away from the mic because she was overpowering
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: the other backup singers. So it was very clear that
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: she needed her own to go out on her own.
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: Although apparently Phil Spector opposed it at first, Sonny Bono
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: was like, no, we're gonna take this girl to really
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: great places, and we're going to do it by giving
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: her the pseudonym Bonnie Joe Mason.
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. Her first single was released. It was
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: called Ringo I Love You as Bonnie Joe Mason. Not
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: a great song. And you know schera has a share
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: has a low I guess is it an alto?
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it sounds like this. If I could turn back
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: to her.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: I meant to look up what her voice technically is,
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: but maybe baritone, I don't know, but it's that lowe's
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: She's got this great, fantastic, powerful low voice. And apparently
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: there were some radio stations that thought it was a
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: man singing and it was a love song DURINGO star,
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: so they refused to play it in some markets, but
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: she was like, you know, it's not a very good song,
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: not a big deal. But very shortly thereafter, in nineteen
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: sixty four, would sign with Imperial Records, which was part
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: an imprint of Liberty Records, and had her first really
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: big hit in sixty five with a cover of Bob
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: Dylan's amazing song All I Really.
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: Want to Do is roller Skate in parentheses.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: She did a great version too. I love the production
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: style and the recording quality of those of like the
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: mid sixties and earlier. It's really good.
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. So she hit like number fifteen on
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: the Billboard charts with that single, that cover of Dylan.
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: That's pretty I mean, seriously, think about this. She just
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: is like, I'm gonna go make it on my own,
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: and then it just happened. I'm really impressed by how
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: condensed like her first series of like big exposures were,
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: you know. And so in addition to her performing or
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: carrying out I guess her solo career, she also was
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: performing with Sonny too, as they would become very famous
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: together performing, but at first they went under the name
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: Caesar and Cleo, apparently as an homage to Sonny's haircut
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: at the time, which she said was somewhere between Caesar's
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: and Napoleon's hair. I don't know what Napoleon's hair looked like.
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: He had like that big old hat he liked to wear. Yeah,
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: Cleo was a nod to her ambiguous ethnic looks. People said, like,
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: you look like a more glamorous Cleopatra, So that's what
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: they went with, and they scuttled that pretty quick.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean she kind of played that up too.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: She had. That's when when she was wearing the dark
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: mass scarra was sort of the cattails coming off the
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: side and just super super cool, looking like very tan,
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: and she had that beautiful long black hair like. I've
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: been watching a lot of Share stuff and Sonny and
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: Chair from that era today and I got a big
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: old man crush on her all over again. That reminded
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: me of when I had one on her when I
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: was six years old.
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: That's cute. From watching the Sonny and Share show and
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: all that.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So, you know, they had some songs together that
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: were not popular, like you talked about, but in sixty
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: five they rebranded as themselves as Sonny and Chair with
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: that huge, huge number one single I Got You Babe
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: that the Rolling Stones, who are always champions of them yeah,
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: said I take it over to England, the l'vievode there.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Apparently in America they weren't getting much love. Share
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: says that they were basically hippies before the word hippie
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: was even around, and they dressed like hippies, they acted
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: like hippies. In America wasn't ready for hippies yet, but
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: England was like, hey, we're swinging over here, so come
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: on over here. And yeah, that's just so bizarre that
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: the Rolling Stones were the ones who like helped get
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: Sonny and Share their big break, because you just do not.
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: That's like Led Zeppelin helping out Donnie and Marie in
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: my mind, I don't know what I mean, it's very
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: similar to that.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: Oh boy, I would argue Sonny and Share were two
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: percent cooler. Oh yeah, Marie.
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: Definitely, but it's certainly in the same ballpark.
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: And totally it's funny. That single I Got You Babe,
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: which is the song they're most known for as a
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: duo still I think sold more than three million Copies
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: was number one for three weeks, and the album was
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: number two for eight weeks and probably would have hit
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: number one had it not been for the fact that
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: The Beatles Help was released at the same time and
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: held down that number one spot.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, if you're gonna be number two to anybody,
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: that's a pretty pretty good album to be number two
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: too at the time.
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. But they had ten top forty singles
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: and five of those were top tens.
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: Not too shabby, No, not at all. The other thing
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: that they were very much known for was banter, comic
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: banter in between. Apparently Sonny was the comedic writer between
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: the two. But Cher said in her eulogy of Sonny
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: Bono when he died of from a skiing accident in
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: nineteen ninety eight that he, like people just kind of
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: saw Sonny Bono, especially during their early careers, like the
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: butt of the jokes. He's like the dip wat I
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: guess is a technical way to put it, but that
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: he knew that that's what made the most sense with
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: their their duo. It made sense for her to be
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: the sharper, more sardonic, smarter one and him to be
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: the butt of the jokes, but she's like, the big
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: joke was he was the one writing the joke, so
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: he kind of had the last laugh in that sense.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: Did you watch any of the the actual variety show
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: Banter Today, Harry Yesterday?
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: You know? Weirdly, I just read a synopsis, a very
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: detailed synopsis of one of their episodes on share scholar
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: dot com.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's I encourage you to check it out and
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: anyone out there who's like, what was their chemistry like,
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: because it is it's really good stuff. I mean, I
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: watched the second iteration of their show that was out
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: later on, which we'll get to in a sec. But
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: they're just so funny together and you could tell they're
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: having a good time, and while it is scripted, it
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: comes across as very natural and it feels like they're
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: and they may have been improving some of it, but
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: it was just they just had fantastic chemistry. And he
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: would she would make short jokes because he was five
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: to five and she was. She seemed giant compared to him,
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: but she was only five seven, but I think they
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: put her in heels and stuff like that, and he
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: would make jokes about her prominent nose and but she
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: usually got the best of him. But they were just
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: it was a very cute pairing together. Yeah, you know,
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: kind of a cute historic comedy pairing. Yeah.
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: All you had to do is put them on TV
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: and let them do their thing and people would fall
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: in love with them. That's what happened. They were guest
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: stars on Kerl Burnett back in nineteen sixty seven. They
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: guest hosted some MERV Griffin Show episodes, and just from
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: that they introduced themselves to America, their TV chops, I guess,
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: and they head of CBS Programming Fred Silverman, who would
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: go on to executive produce Diagnosis Murder. He gave them
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: their first show in August of nineteen seventy one. It
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: was a summer replacement, and I feel like such a
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: slack researcher that I didn't go see what that replaced.
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I didn't either.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: But then when December came around and it was time
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: for like, okay, what's the real deal shows, it got
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: its own slot and it became like a really big hit.
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: They were pulling in like thirty million viewers a week.
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, this was I don't think there were thirty
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: million people in America at the time.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was kind of the early heyday of the
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: variety show, which if you're of a certain age you remember,
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: but if you're not, you know, variety shows were these
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: comedy half hours, usually an hour where they would they
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: would come out and they would do like an opening
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: monologue and joke around or probably open with a song
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: which would lead into the monologue, and then it was
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: you know, it was sketches, it was music. They would
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: have musical and comedy guests. It was called the Sonny
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: and Share Comedy Hour, and it was just there were
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: a lot of these great shows back then, and I
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: pined for those to come back, and I think they
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: could if they did it right. Really yeah, I think
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: if you had the right the right people, and especially
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: like a couple like this is kind of a fun
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: way to do it. H I think it could work.
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: I mean, they have some that are like skirting the
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: genre for sure. Yeah, they're terrible, Like America's got talent
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: and the voice and all that stuff.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: That's that's not the same. It's not street see.
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: But some of those are like there's so many different
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: acts or different types of acts, but it's close. It's
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: just missing like the people who host the show, like
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: having like a larger main role in it, you know
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: what I mean?
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: Like I get that, like take away the competition aspect,
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: get a couple of cutie pies like us to host it.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: Sure, I mean, I guess my point is, be careful
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: what you wish.
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: For right now, you're right, because what are the chances
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: they would do it right?
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: Probably not good.
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: So, Sonny Bono is very very much tied to Share
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: and vice versa in most people's mind and a lot
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: of people's mind, especially older people. But there's another collaborator
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: that a guy who wrote for The New Yorker. His
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: name's Michael Shulman. He said that Bob Mackie, the very
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: very famous fashion designer, was probably arguably surpassing Bono as
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: her defining collaborator because one thing people know about Share
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: is that she will wear any over the top outfit
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: that Bob Mackie would make for her. And apparently they
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: were very close collaborators. It wasn't like Bob Mackie would say, here,
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: I designed this, put this on. She would go back
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: and forth with them, kind of push him to go
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: even further, and just just from the fact that she
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: was willing to try on or where in public. Anything
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: he came up with I think really inspired him too,
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: So those two were as much a duo as Sonny
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: and Share were.
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and to be clear, like this was started on
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: that TV show. It wasn't just the sort of iconic
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: things she would wear on the red carpet later like
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: they've they've been together since the beginning basically.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I think their TV show would have something like
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: twenty different costume changes per episode, and Bob mackie was
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: there designing everything. So yeah, they're they're very close, I think. Still,
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure Bob macki is still around.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: All right, Well, we're gonna go check and see if
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: Bob macki is still with this and take a break
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: and we'll come back with the with the breaking news
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: right after this.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: We los so much stuff from Josh and shuck stuff fui,
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: all right, Chuck, so lay it on everybody. Is Bob Mackie,
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: known as the Sultan of Sequins, still alive.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: I'm glad to say, sir that he is. He's was
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: born in nineteen forty, so Bob McKee is eighty four
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: years young, very nice, still going.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: Okay, so back to Sonny again. Sonny's spirit is out there, like, Okay,
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: that's enough about Bob mckew. Let's get back to.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: Me, right, Okay, So should I take over here?
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: Right? Well, they had their they're a very popular TV show.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: Romantically with their marriage things weren't as successful. Sonny started
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: stepping out and then Cher started stepping out on their marriage.
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: They had some financial issues, which we should be like,
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: how in the world with these huge stars have money trouble.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: One of the reasons because Sonny was he controlled everything
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: in their relationship when it came to the business, so
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: he was controlling their money. One of the big things
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: that happened was in sixty nine he financed a movie
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: called Chastity, putting most of their money into it for
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: share to you know, star in her first movie vehicle,
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: and it was a big flop. It's one of the
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: big rules of movie production is you never put your
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: own money into your own movie. Just not smart to do. So.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: It was actually the same year that Chaz Bono was born,
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: which is their son who very famously transitioned in two
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: thousand and eight because Chas was assigned female at birth.
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: Right and That's another thing that Share would become very
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: famous for is championing trans rights in large part because
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: of her experience with Chas or So. And she's become
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: a real as we'll see I think, as you mentioned
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: at the outset of a gay icon, and also a
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: huge she has a huge following in the trans community too.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely so.
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: By nineteen seventy three, Sonny and Share show are still
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: going on, still going pretty strong, and for all intents
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: and purposes, Sonny is married to a former cigarette girl
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: in a club called named Connie Foreman. But for the
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: public's information, they were still together Sonny and Share where
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: finally they're like, Okay, this isn't sustainable anymore. And they
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: started to get divorced in nineteen seventy four. And you
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: said that Sonny had total control over their finances, right, Yeah,
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: he had even more control than she realized. Like I
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: think she just thought like he handled that stuff. But
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: as they were getting divorced, her own lawyer was like,
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: you know, the company that was built on your talent,
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: it's actually called Share Enterprises. You own zero percent of that.
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: Sonny owns ninety five percent, and the lawyer that runs
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: the thing owns the other five you own nothing. And
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: she's like, oh my god, really that's crazy. And the
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: lawyer's like, no, it gets even worse. You've been signing
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: contracts that you haven't been reading, haven't you. And she's like, yeah,
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: I guess this is a paraphrase, by the way, or
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: an imagined conversation. And he said, you signed a contract
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: that said that you would not work outside of Share enterprises,
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: So you can't record music, you can't be in movies,
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: you can't be on TV. And we don't know what's
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: going to happen with this because this is essentially an
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: ironclag contract.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: Right, which, of course there is no such thing, thankfully,
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: because so many entertainers signed bad contracts that they can
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: in fact get out of. And that's what happened when
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: Shares was like, wait a minute, saying that I can't
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: do anything except for make entertainment for a company that
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: I owned no part of, and he said yeah, and
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: she was like, all right, well, let me ask my
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: boyfriend this. Her boyfriend at the time was another music impresario,
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: David Geffen, and he said, I'll get you out of that,
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: don't worry about it. So he gets her out of
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: that contract gets her a two and a half million
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: dollar deal with Warner Brothers, which you know, it's a
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: lot of money now, but obviously in nineteen the early
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: nineteen seventies, it's a very big record contract. And that
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: would be followed very shortly thereafter by the canceling of
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: The Comedy Hour in nineteen seventy four. But Chaer was
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: always she still liked Sonny. She wasn't like this guy
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: took advantage of me. She was like, you know, I
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: really love Sonny. I would have done another show if
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: they would have split it fifty to fifty with me.
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: He was a terrible husband, but a great mentor and
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: a great teacher to me.
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: Right, anytime I hear about the Sonny Share show too,
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: I'm reminded of that Simpson's little bit where they talk
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: about a man who woke up from a coma after
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: twenty years and he's being interviewed in his hospital bed
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: and he goes, do Sonny and Share still have that
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: stupid show? And Kim Brockman goes, no, she won an
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: oscar and he's a congressman, and that guy goes good night,
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: and like dies. Right, there's some like girls out of
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: his mouth.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: Yes, Sonny Bono would become a congressman.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, a Republican congressman. No, less was he Yeah, Oh.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: I couldn't remember. So in nineteen seventy five, she got
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: her own variety show, just called Share and it was
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: sort of like the rest of them, It was not
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: as popular. You know, they had a certain chemistry together
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: that made them famous, and so they would bring back
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: the show, this time not as the Comedy Hour but
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: just the Sonny and Share Show. And that one didn't
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: last super long either, because by nineteen seventy seven, and
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: this was the version that I saw on TV when
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: I was but six years old, they broke up professionally
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: as well.
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: So that was it for her and Sonny Bono from
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: that point on, aside from in the public's collective memory, right, Yeah,
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: Like I said, she was still carrying out or performing
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: like she had a solo career that she was also
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: doing all this time while she was doing other stuff
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: with Sonny, and it was very successful. Very early on.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: She had her seventh album was in nineteen seventy one.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: She was.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: Twenty four I think at the time, twenty five maybe,
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: and she that was her seventh studio album. Initially it
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: was entire it was titled Share with a little accent
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: over the e, just to make it fancy. But instead
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: they're like, no, no, we want to be way more
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: offensive than that. Let's name it after the title track,
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: Gypsy's tramps and thieves.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: That's right, that's a word that is not used anymore,
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: which we learned when we did that episode many many
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: years ago. So we're all still learning, everybody. She also
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: had a song on there that hasn't aged too well.
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: It was called half Breed and it was about it
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: was like from the perspective of a half Cherokee woman
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: and chair or you know, a faux headdress and performed
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: that way and claimed to be of Cherokee descent on
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: her mother's side. And it seems like none of that
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: is actually true. And I'm sure that stuff Share is not,
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: like you know, puts at the top of her CV
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: these days.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: No, But interestingly, she still rocked a head dress in
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: her Vegas residency in the twenty first century. When did
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: she really Yeah, when she would do a medley of
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: her hits for that song, she would wear a headdress still,
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: so she's still doing half Breed, Yeah, all right, Yeah,
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: so I read that somewhere. I didn't see it with
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: mine own eyes or anything.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: Well maybe that is at the top of her civ then.
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: So it was about this time. Can you imagine, that's
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: the number one thing she lists out of her entire career.
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: So about this time, early early seventies, she starts becoming
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: known for like really wearing just totally revealing clothing, and
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: she and Bob Mackie just put it into like overdrive
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: and start taking off from there. And one of the
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: outfits that she first got wide public notice for was
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: her naked dress that she wore to the Met gal
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy four, and Bob Mackie escorted her and
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: it is a naked dress. It's an amazing, beautiful gown
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: that seems totally see through but it's not. And it
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: was a it was a big deal. It made a
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: huge splash.
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And if you know, you can't go to the
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: Met Gala these days and throw you can throw a
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: rock and hit five naked dresses with that one throw.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: But that was I tried to find examples of anyone
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: to pioneer that nude look in public before her share
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: and I couldn't find any, so I know, Mackie and
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: Chair kind of put that that well worn look on
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: the map.
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, from what I saw, she was widely cited
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: as the first one. She also wore it the next
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: year on the cover of Time, and that just kind
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: of sealed it as an iconic dress. But that was
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: far from the last dress. As we'll see. We're gonna
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: talk a little bit more about our dresses soon, but first,
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: let's take a little side trip over to the Allman
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: Brothers band literally and meet up. Yeah, and meet up
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: with Greg Alman, one of the founders, and they got
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: married apparently within a few days of Sonny and Shar's
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: divorce being final. Cher I guess had met Greg Alman
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: at some point and was like, let's go get married
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: in Vegas, and I think nine days later they were
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: married in Vegas.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and they had a I mean, her relationship in
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: marriage with Greg Alman is as famous as it was
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: to Sonny Bono because of I mean, her marriage to
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: Sonny was a little boring in comparison, I think, Yeah,
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: and I think I think it was either share or
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: maybe it was Greg. One of them described their marriage
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: as being on LSD at Disneyland, so they had a
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: lot of fun. But this was a bad time, I
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: mean good time professionally for Greg Almon in the mid seventies,
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: but he was really not doing too well with his
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: consumption habits. He had heroin issues and cocaine issues and
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: alcohol issues, and they had a volatile, I guess four
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: or five year run getting back together, remarrying, stuff like that, reconciling.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: So it was sort of an up and down wild marriage,
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: rock and roll marriage, which got a lot of press.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: But it also bore her other son, Elijah Blue Almond,
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: who was born in nineteen seventy six.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I don't remember if I brought this up,
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: and if so rare, but I ran across this somewhere
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: and I remembered it when I was reading about Elijah
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: Blue Almond. The balloon arch, which you might see at
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: like a wedding or something like that, was invented for
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: Elijah Blue Almond's third birthday by legendary balloon artist treb Heining.
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: The new dress, isn't that amazing?
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: The balloon arch, the nude dress, what else? Auto tune
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: as we'll see.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, she was a huge pioneer in a
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: lot of well Share had a really large pop cultural impact,
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: more than she gets credit for, for sure.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: I think so. As I said that marriage was trouble.
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: Greg Alman was not much of a father. Elijah Blue
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: has had struggles in his life and his health, drug problems.
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: I know he struggles with lyme disease and they're very
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: sadly still have a troubled He and Chair have a
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: troubled relationship. She I remember reading this last year. She
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: tried to file or she filed to try and get
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: a conservatorship over him just late last year but was
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: denied it. And it's just I think anyone who as
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: a fan of Shared is really behind her and hoping
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: that she and her son can resolve this.
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, apparently she went through a really rough patch with
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: Chaz as well, but that's kind of been resolved over
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: the years, she said in I think a twenty ten
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: interview in Vanity Fair. Right. Yeah, so by this time,
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: by nineteen seventy eight, she and Greg Alman are about
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: to split up for good, and she decides to finally
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: just change her legal name to Cher, which is an
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: enormous reduction in the number of letters in her full name,
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: because at the time her full legal name was Cherylyn
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: Sarcasian La Pierre Bono Almon. And she's like, just call
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: me Cher from now on, and that's what the law said.
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: They stamped it and said, okay, we'll call you Share
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: from now on.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: Another thing that Share was very well known for was
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: her myriad boyfriend She had over the years, many times,
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: including up to two day dating men that were younger
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: than her, sometimes much younger than her, but usually famous dudes,
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: very high profile relationships. She dated Gene Simmons for a
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: couple of years, the bass player from Kiss and more
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: than bass player obviously. She dated Val Kilmer. She dated
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: Tom Cruise. She dated Eric Stoltz, who played her son
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: in the movie Mask, which is a little strange, but yeah,
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: she loves loves men and loves dating men.
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: She believes in love.
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: Right, and she believes in life even afterward too. Yeah.
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: A little side thing on Eric Stoltz that I found
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: out recently. Apparently he was the original Marty McFly and
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: back to the future. Did you know that?
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: You didn't know that?
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: I'll stop sharing this anecdote immediately, but.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: No, I'm sorry. That was just one of those that
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: I thought you would have known, Like you can see
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: the like they shot some of the movie with him
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: and you can see those scenes.
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: I did not know that part. I did know that
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: they wanted Michael J. Fox originally, but Family Ties was
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: like no, so they went with Eric Stoltson. Like this
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: kid is playing this way too seriously. He would not
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: goof it up at all. He's too serious of an actor.
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: So they were like, all right, we're like a third
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: of the way through shooting. We're just gonna bring in
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: Michael J. Fox on nights and weekends, which is why
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: a lot of the stuff that a lot of the
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: scenes Michael J. Fox is in are at night. Said it.
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: No, yeah, you should check out some of the scenes.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: It's very brain breaking to be someone of our generation
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: and see Eric Stolt's playing Martin mcflyin.
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: So what like that scenes that made it into the movie?
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: You mean or the outtakes? No? No, no, okay, just.
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: I mean they had shot at third of the movie
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: and that that exists online.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: I see, I got you. I didn't know if they
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: were like this this scene was actually too good. We're
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: just gonna pretend like that's Michael J.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: Fox, I gotcha, so like he's got his back turn
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: to the camera.
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: You can still somehow see his freckle.
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: In the eighties is when Chaer finally broke out as
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: an actor. This is something that or actually, should we
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: take a break there?
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: Or no, yeah, we might as well.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: All right, we'll leave a cliffhanger though, and when we
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: come back, we'll learn to see if Share ever acted again.
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: Right after this, we loss.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: So much stuff from Josh and shook stuff. Fui.
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: All right, We've got to the bottom of that one too.
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: Share did finally get into acting in a genuine way
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: in the nineteen eighties. She was on Broadway and The
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: I Guess In the same year. In nineteen eighty two,
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: Robert Altman did a Broadway version of Come Back to
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: the Five and Dime Jimmy Jimmy Dean and a Movie.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: She was in the movie and won a Golden Globe
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: for that part.
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: Even did you know that that play originally premiered at
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: the Alliance Theater in Atlanta before Broadway. Amazing, So that
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: was a big breakthrough for her, that movie in particular,
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: but also Broadway. I mean, it's like a pretty big
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: deal to go act on stage. There's a big difference
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: between being in the hands of an editor and being
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: like live on stage. So that was a pretty pretty
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: big way to kind of debut as like a genuine actor.
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: Because one thing, we should say, that Chastity movie that
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: she first tried in nineteen sixty nine, that was a drama.
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: It wasn't a comedy. It was like a straight up drama,
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: and people were just like, no, we're not accepting this.
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: So she kept at it. She was in Come Back
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: to the Five and Don Jimmy Dean, Jimmy Dean. She
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: I think the next year played the lesbian roommate of
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: Meryl Streep, well, Meryl Streep's character in Silkwood, and she
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: actually cites that as one of the one of the
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: watershed moments that started to attract like a following for
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: her from the gay community. That kind of eventually became,
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: you know, her gay icon ship.
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: Right. Yeah, she won, by the way, a Golden She
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: won the Golden Globe for that.
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: Okay, great, and then she starred in Mask very she
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: I mean, she was amazing in Mask. That movie was
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: so good, if I remember correct. I haven't seen it
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: in a long time, but I just can't see that
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: not being good, Like that part where he teaches his
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: blind girlfriend, like what colors are her through touch? What
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: was that? Laura dern Okay, so Chaer is like her
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: Eric Stoltz's protective biker mom and just the whole movie
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: is just so great. She does a really great job
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: and she won the Best Actress Award at can for
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: her role in Mask. So she was expecting to at
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: least be nominated for an OSCAR for Best Actress. Nothing.
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: It was a a straight up snub, like Hollywood was
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: sending a message to her, like a nice tribe, but
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: to stay out of the acting business. We've got this.
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: We can't really take you seriously.
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a big thumb in the eye. So
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: Bob Mackie designed her famous revenge gown gowned gown, which
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: was this. It was the one where she had the big,
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: huge plume of black feathers all over her head kind
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: of like a headdress or I guess it was a
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: head dress and just like you know, not a Native
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: American kind of headdress. And it was it was basically
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: like hey, everybody look at me.
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, not Don Michi? Who would win?
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: Who won?
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: Don Amici? He won for Cocoon. She was presenting the
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: Best Supporting Actor award.
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: Oh okay, I thought you met won her award. No,
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: I think that was Geraldine Page maybe in What Well.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: I don't know if Share got nominated or would have
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: been nominated. I guess she would have been nominated for
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: Best Actress or would have been a Best Supporting for Masks.
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: I think best Actress that's what she won and.
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: Can okay, So, I think Geraldine Page won Best Actress
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: in What. Can't remember the name of the movie.
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: What was it about? Can you give a brief synopsis?
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: No, I can't remember. But that was also the same
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: year of The Color Purple. So I think there were
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: three or four actresses nominated in both categories for that
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: and Jessica Lang. Like you know, it's always tough to
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: to say, like, well, this person deserved it more than
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: that person, but hey, that's how the Oscars go. Seron
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: should have been nominated at least, But she would win
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: the next year for Moonstruck, which is one of my
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: favorite movies.
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: I've never seen it.
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: Oh man, it's you'd love it.
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: Okay, I'll take your word for.
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: Vintage Nicholas Cage. Also, I wanted to mention too, in
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: case anyone is curious, I did I got I rewatched Masked? Masked?
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: What is wrong with me? I'm just saying everything slightly wrong.
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: Was it masked? James or Jim Carrey, James Carey?
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: That was the mask?
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: Okay, gotcha? So what's masked?
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: There is no such thing? Again, there probably is, But
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: mask I rewatched a few years ago because that was
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: a movie crush movie. It was Tig Nataro's pick.
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: Oh nice, don't. I don't blame Tig for that at all.
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's fun to go back and rewatch that
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: because that was an HBO special for me. I watched
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: it quite a few times back in the day.
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: So did it hold up?
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Really good? Good movie.
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: Great. So the eighties were like really kind of big
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: for share. And remember she made her debut and was
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: releasing hits and had a hit TV show in the
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: early seventies, not even mid seventies. By the mid eighties
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: and late eighties, it was like she had a brand
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: new career. She'd win an oscar, she won a Best
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: Actress at cann She was becoming an acclaimed actress. And
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: then she starts releasing albums again, and two albums in
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: two years or three years, nineteen eighty seven and nineteen
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: eighty nine, and the nineteen eighty nine went Hard as
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: Stone that went triple platinum, and the reason, one of
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: the big reasons that went triple platinum was for her.
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: If I could turn back.
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: Time song, Yeah, I've been singing that all day and
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: I didn't even watch it, just from reading those words
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: right and stuck in my head.
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: I've got the thing I've been doing the whole time
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: with that, if I could turn back to it's I
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: saw Jack do it on Will and Grace when she
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: did a cameo on it, and he thought she she
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: was like a drag queen, but it was the real
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: share and he was telling her how to do it right,
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: and she slaps him and says, snap out of it.
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: Why was he doing his voice like that?
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: Though he saw her and like they had like a
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: turn back time off and he was correcting her because
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: he thought he thought she was she was a sharre impersonator.
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: It's a pretty great you haven't seen that scene? It's great? Yeah?
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: You know what's Jack from Will and Grace?
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: Oh? Does Sean Hayes.
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: Right, best known for his role on SmartLess the podcast.
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the movie career would continue if I can turn
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: Bactime was a huge hit. She put out Mermaids in
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: nineteen ninety that had another hit song in it, the
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: Shoop Shoop song It's in his Kiss. Sonny, like you said,
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: would very tragically die in a skiing accident in ninety eight,
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: But that was also the year of her biggest hit ever,
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: the song that you joked about with the auto tune,
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: which was Believe of the same album Believe, and it
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: was a quadruple platinum number one hit. The album was
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: quadruple platinum, and that song was number one for four weeks.
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, not only that, we talked about this in the
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: auto Tune episode. That was the first use of auto
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: tune in that way. Up to that point, it had
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: just been used to kind of just gently correct people's vocals.
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: That's what it was originally created for. And her producer
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: Mark Taylor was like, no, we're turning that thing up
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: to eleven to see what happens. And so this is
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: nineteen ninety eight, right. She had her first career in
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: the seventies, second career in the eighties, she's kind of
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: gone off and just been out of the limelight for
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: a good decade and she has this idea to record
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: this album and Warner Brothers in America was like, nah,
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: we don't think so, We're not one hundred percent you're
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: going to sell any copies. So, just like with the
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: Rolling Stones bringing her to England and saying like hey, everybody,
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: check these people out, and that helping her get her boost.
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: She went to her British label, Warner Brothers UK, and
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: they agreed to release it. So Warner Brothers America turned
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: down that album and luckily the UK label agreed and
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: it had not only just that huge impact on her career,
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: but also the fact that used auto tune. It just
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: took off from there.
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was huge and you know, change music for
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: a little while. It's I don't think it's a it's
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: a thing that sort of rooted in time. Now. I
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: think a lot of people were worried, like, oh no,
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: this is going to change music forever, and it was
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: just sort of a oh, what's the word I'm looking for,
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: just a music trick that was fashionable for a little while.
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: I guess, yeah, a long while. I would say, I mean,
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: this is like a good people still use that stuff,
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: and not just in rap anymore. Right, And it's been
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: a quarter century that people have been doing that.
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: Is it still a thing?
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, it is still a thing. It's becoming, like
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: you said, less and less and less. I think everybody's like,
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: we got to come up with something besides trap music
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: now because it's just been done too long, too many times.
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: But I saw an interview with Cher you said Jay
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: Z once came up to her and thanked her. He said,
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: a lot of my friends who don't have very good
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: voices have career thanks to you in auto tune. So
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: I think that's a reason why it's stuck around for
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: a quarter century because it lets producers say like, hey,
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: you're terrible at this, we can make that right, Just
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: go out there and be the image that we want
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: to see.
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, one word you've said a few times in
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: describing that as decades, and I'm not talking about her perfume,
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: but her perfume is named decades because the coolest fact
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: about Share probably is that she's only solo artist in
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: music history to have hits in seven different decades, which
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: is just unbelievable. And it's something I mean that's why
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: she called her perfume that because something she's really proud
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: of is her staying power. I know she's been asked
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: in interviews about like, you know who these days, is
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: it Lady Gaga or who's the next share who's comparable
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: to you? And she wasn't being like nobody, honey, But
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: her response was just sort of like, well, you know,
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: are all great, but like the thing I'm most proud of,
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: and I'm of course paraphrasing, is the decades, seven decades
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: of hits and like, you know, not saying there's no
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: one comparable, but there's kind of no one comparable, and
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: like kind of a call me in forty years kind
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: of thing and let's see where they're at. And not again,
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: she wasn't being a jerk. She's just being very matter
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: of fact about what a big accomplishment that is for her.
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: And I don't blame her.
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: For sure. She's still releasing albums. I mentioned a Vegas
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: residency two thousand and eight to twenty eleven. She was
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: working Caesar's Palace. She released album in twenty thirteen. It
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: was a dance album. I think the whole thing was
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: a dance album that kind of made it different from
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: some of all the rest of her albums. She released
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: a Christmas album last year.
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: I didn't know that. I got to hear that.
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: It's it's unlistenable at least the single is. It's bad man,
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: DJ play a Christmas.
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: Song, it's not all.
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't like it. And I like Sharon, I
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: like her work, but I'm not a fan of that song.
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: And you like Christmas music, it does, yes, I think
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: that's why I don't like that song. But yeah, yeah,
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: it's it's it's odd. It's definitely worth listening to, but
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: I don't think you're gonna make it through the whole thing.
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: Okay, through that whole song.
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, if you were on ecstasy and acid
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: and at a club, you'd probably be like, this is
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: pretty good. But if you're just sitting there listening to
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: it during a work day, yeah, I don't think you're
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: gonna like it very much.
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, while you're working at the Gap at the mall right,
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: please cut not again. I worked at the Gap during Christmas.
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: That's the only time I worked there was for like
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: a month. But that Christmas mix got so into my brain,
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: and the one that really stands out Wash Sanna's got
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: a brand new bag. The James Taylor win.
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: James Taylor, James Brown.
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: Did I say, James Taylor, what is wrong with me?
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: You know? James Taylor. Yeah, it's got to got a
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: brand new bags. Oh man, I'm just off my game today.
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: That's pretty funny, though I'm not gonna.
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: Be still charming as ever, though, I'll tell you.
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: That I appreciate it.
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: Like Warren Baty, you just need auto tune for your
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: brain for this episode.
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's exactly what I need. Share is but a
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: Tony away from an egot. I I'm not sure if
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: there are any plans to get her one. To me,
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: they should have given her one just for the musical
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: The Share Show, which was on Broadway and did win
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: Tony's but like, just throw a Tony man, give her
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: that egot.
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah. One of the things. So we talked about her
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: being a gay icon. She did an interview with Pride
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: soource dot com and they were asking her about you
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: know how how that happened, and she was saying, like,
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: you know, gay men are very loyal, and she said
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: that come back to The five and dime when it premiered,
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: like it had a big response initially and then it
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: just dropped off. But yes, but the gay community had
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: already discovered and loved Share and she said they just
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: basically came out and supported the show and kept it
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: going long enough to develop into larger and larger following,
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: and that had it not been for the gay community,
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: it would have just been it would have been canceled
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: very quickly after debuting, and it didn't. And she's like,
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: that's that's just the kind of support that not just she,
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: but anybody that is an icon in the gay community
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: can expect. Yeah, they're just very loyal and supportive, even
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: if what you're doing is not that great. And I
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: read that the Share show is essentially being supported by
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: the gay community too, that it's not super good.
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I haven't heard that, And of course that's the
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: full spectrum of the LGBTQ community. Because of her work
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: with trans writes. You know, she even admits having a
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: hard time when initially Chaz came out as gay and
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: then later transitioned. But you know, they're a tight family
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: and they worked through it, and she has been a
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: supporter even though it she just had to wrap her
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: head around it. I know that she got her first
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: experience with the gay community when she was twelve. From
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: this article I read, she said told a very cute story.
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: She said, I came home from school one day there
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: were these two guys in our living room talking to
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: my mom and her best friend, and they were so
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: happy and excited about everything they were talking about, so animated,
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: and I thought, these guys are so much more fun
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: than the regular men who come over to visit. I
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: didn't know they were gay. I just thought these guys
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: are great, and it all started from them.
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: I love that story. It's a great Anne.
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really good.
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: She also is a supporter of veterans. She's called into
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: c SPAN at least two times to promote her help
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: for I think with inserts into helmets for soldiers in
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: the Iraq War, and she co founded a charity called
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: Free the Wild that relocates captive zoo animals to like
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: actual good habitats.
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: That's awesome.
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she's I mean, she's flirting with dollihood, not quite,
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: but she's really close. I mean, she's like a good
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: she's a cool person. Good person.
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess. Uh. Look for episodes on Barber Streiss
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: In and Judy Garland. Yeah, in the next couple of years.
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: Were you go, we're going to become gay icons.
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: If we keep this up, that should round it out. Oh,
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: I hope so.
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: Well. If you want to know more about share, just
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: go watch some videos, listen to some songs, read some articles,
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: go see a Broadway play about her, whatever you want
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: to do. There's plenty to take in. And since I
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: said that it's time for listener mail, I'm.
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: Going to call this freaking follow up. Hey, guys, back
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: in the day, when there were payphones, the operator could
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: actually give you back your dime and later a quorterer
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: by a tone if something went wrong. One of the
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: earliest hacks involved getting back your dime without an operator
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: and usually many more dimes than just yours, by slowly
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: controlling the return from dialing the number nine.
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: Wow man, kids, Back in the day.
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: As you return the dial, money would come out. Okay,
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: So it was on a dial phone and depending on
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: when the service, depending on when the service people had
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: last collected from that phone. I'm not sure I read
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: that right, but I think you get the picture. Yeah,
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: you can get quite a lot of money this way.
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: I refuse to answer how I know this, but a
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: person could pay for train fare to the suburbs from
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: Grand Central by going to several phone booths in a row.
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: That is from Danielle last name redacted.
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: Nice. Thanks a lot, Danielle. It's a great anecdote. I
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: love that one.
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: Chuck me too.
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: Well. If you want to be like Danielle and give
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: us a great anecdote about something we talked about, you
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: can guess we love that kind of stuff. You can
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: put it in an email and send it off to
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: Stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com.
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the heart Radio app,
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.