Latest / Foul Territory / Tom Verducci on Bellinger’s evolution, Skenes comp, Bobby Cox + Fantasy Baseball Buy/Sell/Hold

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Tom Verducci on Bellinger’s evolution, Skenes comp, Bobby Cox + Fantasy Baseball Buy/Sell/Hold · Foul Territory

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Hey, lit's send our game changer conversation right now and
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: it is Tom Berducci joining us on FT. Of course
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: you can check out his articles for years and Sports
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Illustrated to see him on MLB Network and many other spots. Tom,
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: great to catch up with you, and also a newsletter
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: added to the mix. I've heard as well.
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: Right, yeah, I need more work, I guess.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: So tell us about it. How can people grab it?
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: And what have you been putting in there lately?
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah? This is an SI dot com and listen. You know,
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: I grew up in an era when people went to
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: the newspapers first and then magazines, and now people want
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: the news quicker and easier, more conveniently, And it seems
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: like a lot of people now like these newsletters, like
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: they'll drop in there and then just get and dive
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: into it quickly. I put this out on Mondays. It's
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: got a little bit of everything. I always put down
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: a breakdown. I love doing breakdowns. I got at least
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: one in there every week. It's it's kind of a Catchell,
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: but it goes much deeper than that. I like to
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: identify some trends before they're out there. For the most part, nationally.
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: Any good stories quotes for managers, I'll throw it all
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: in there.
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: Tom, Bobby Cox, we have to. I'm gonna hit on
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: the sad part first, Bobby Cox passing away along with
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: Ted Turner. Let's not forget about Ted Turner. Rough week
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: last week for Braves Country. Give me some Bobby Cox stories.
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: And we had this debate the other day. Will anyone
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: ever catch Bobby Cox in career ejections? He's at one
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: hundred and sixty two, so he missed the whole season
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: of ejections. I mean, I said Aaron Boone would be
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: the closest, but I don't know if it lasts long enough.
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, especially now that we have abs, right, I mean,
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: ejections have definitely gotten down with the ABS. But yeah,
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: hundred in sixty two. That's the amazing thing about that
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: is Bobby always would bring the line about card the
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: next day or talk to the umpires the next day
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: like it never happened, like he never held a grudge
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: and they never held a grudge against him. It was
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: all in the name of not putting out a show,
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: never about himself, venting on so much on the umpire. Personally,
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: I'm packing his player I mean, we hear that phrase
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: all the time, the guy is a player's manager, and
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: too many times for me, that's a euphemism for a
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: guy who runs a loose ship, lets guys do what
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: they want. Bobby was a player's manager because he had
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: to back all the time.
• 2:14
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: I never forget Tom Glavin telling me that he would
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: pitch a lousy game and take up the newspaper again
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: back in the day with newspapers and see that. The
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: quotes from Bobby were like, well, he had some bad breaks,
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: the umpire miss him, calls, we didn't make plays behind him,
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: he threw the ball. Well, Tommy was like, I pitched
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: a totally different game according to Bobby Cox. But that
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: was just backing up his players.
• 2:35
  Speaker 4: Now.
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: He wasn't beyond calling people out. We all know that
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: the famous story about pulling Andrew Jones off the field
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: when he was twenty one years old for not going
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: out through a fly ball. He would do that in
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: private too. That happened to be a very high profile case.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: But I think Bobby was definitely the definition for me
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: of a player's manager because he gittered so much loyalty
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: and trust from his players, And what is managing, but that.
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: You wrote that he was endless examples of being a
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: good leader besides backing his players, because like you said,
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: sometimes that can be seen as like that soft manager,
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: that's like bro bro hug with all the players. What
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: are some other good examples of him being a great leader?
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: Well spring training, no eyewash like the pictures. We all
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: know how much of those guys love to play golf, right,
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: Bobby made that possible because he was the first guy
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: years ago I can remember that just didn't have the
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: picture just hang around and shag in the outfield, like
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: it's the worst thing for a picture to just stand
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: there on the outfield, the worst thing for their backs.
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: So he made sure these guys got their work in.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: Of course, they were on the first team by about
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: one o'clock, so they loved it. But no eyewash with Bobby,
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: and I go back to the fact that the last
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: guy I knew who were spikes in the major league
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: uniform as a manager, and Bobby when he put that
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: uniform on, I said, it was like being an Army
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: general or a Navy admiral. Wall admiral. It was it
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: was the way that you respected the game, the uniform
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: itself was a symbol of respect for the game, and
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: Bobby always had the jersey on. I mean, you see
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: the guys now, I think that it's a different era.
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: You know, the cutoff hoodies and T shirts and whatnot,
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: and Bobby would have never done that. The spikes, the
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: old school stirrups. And then he had a rule that
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: if he wore sunglasses, you couldn't have him out front
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: blocking the A logo on the braves cap little things. Yeah,
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: I know it's from a different era and we won't
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: see this guy kind of guy passed this way again
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: as the manager. But all those things, man, just the
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: respect for the game that to me just stands out.
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: The way he learned the game. And this guy was
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: a teammate of Mickey Mantles and he managed Freddy Freeman.
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: He just saw it all, did it all, but he
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: never acted like he knew it all. That's the one thing.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: And I told this story that one of the treats
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: for me was being in this room they called Bobby's room. Right,
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: it's a the clubhouse tunnel on the way from the
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: clubhouse to the dugout. It used to be an old
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: groundskeeper storage area it's very small, and Bobby used to
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: just hang out in there before a game, more comfortable
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: there in his office, and a lot of times the
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: Cubs were playing their afternoon games at Grigley whatever, there
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: might be a game on TV. To sit in there
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: with Bobby, I just talked baseball, and I always said
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: he was smart enough to pick other people's brains, not
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: that I ever said anything that mattered to him, but
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: he never knew where he was going to learn something,
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: whether there's about another team and another player, what have you.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: I always say the smartest guys are the ones who
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: know what they don't know, and they're always looking to learn.
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: It's the guys who try to tell you how smart
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: they are, they're probably not as smart as they think
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: they are. Bobby was insatiable just to learn about the game.
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: It wasn't just for the Braves either. I have to
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: say good leaders make great leaders because I went to
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: different organizations, plenty of different organizations, and there was little things,
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: especially with the Royals. Now a lot of the Royals
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: front office sheerholds those guys dating more. They came from
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: the Braves, but they adopted a lot of the same
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: rules that Bobby Cox had too, so it wasn't just
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: a Braves thing. It was like people like people emulate
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: the Rays now they're pitching, people were emulating Bobby Cox
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: back in the day for his uh rules, even though
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: they weren't really rules, they were just what he did.
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: I think that's a great point, because the legacy for
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: Bobby Cox for me is not so much the wins
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: the losses and you know, top four all time and
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: managing it's incredible, what a prolific career. It's what you
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: just said. It's all the people who were in his orbit,
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: who were influenced by his respect for the game, who
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: maybe burnt to other players or maybe it shaped their
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: own games, and you know, they go on with their
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: own kids, even if they're not major league players. Those
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: kind of lessons to me are sort of life lessons
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: and kinds of discipline preparation. Bobby was the one who
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: instilled all those things. And yeah, you can look at
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: it now and say the kind of old school things.
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: As you know, with Bobby, he didn't want music in
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: the clubhouse playing out a loud speaker because he thought
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: maybe there were some people who didn't like that kind
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: of music. Whatever, the clubhouse BJA chose on that particular day.
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: So if you want to listen to music, you put
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: headphones on. Little things like that we now look at
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: old school. But that was Bobby's way of just looking
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: out for the unit. You know, he was a guy
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: who is concerned, never about himself, and it really wasn't
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: about Bobby, despite him being an all time great manager.
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: What can we do to make this team a unit?
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: A true unit?
• 7:16
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• 8:18
  Speaker 3: I was fortunate I got to play for Freddy Gonzalez,
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: who obviously was a Bobby Guy snicker who was a
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: Bobby guy. Bobby would be around. He was, He was unbelievable,
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: and yes, all those rules applied. You had to wear
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: your hat forward, you couldn't cover the a, you had
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: to wear a top, you had to wear pants at BP.
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: Those are all They're all different now, but for that
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: time out the two years I was with the Braves,
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: it was pretty cool.
• 8:38
  Speaker 6: It's completely different.
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: But you know what it was like being in the
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: Yankees when they had the shaving policy. You followed him
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: because Bobby Cox wanted it that way, and you just
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: you respected Bobby Cox. You did it and didn't complain,
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: and you just you dealt with it and it was fine.
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: It wasn't a big deal. So the next thing is
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: we mentioned Bobby Cox and the ejections. How do you
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: think he would have handled the abs with Glavin and Maddox.
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: You know they were getting this far off the plate
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: right now, they have the abs, strikes, strikes are down,
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: the game time is up because the ab as walks
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: her up all this, Bobby Cox would have been ejected
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: like two hundred more times at this point.
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: That's a great point. I always say this too about
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: great players. They would be great in any era, but
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: they probably would have to adapt.
• 9:18
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: You know that down and away fastball, which was the
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: meat potatoes of a Leni Braves staff a lot of
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: times off the plate. You're absolutely right, but they had
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: to command to take advantage of wider plates back then.
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: That's not the case now, right, You're not getting that
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: pitch no matter how many times you are around the
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: edge of the zone. I'm amazed at what a great
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: job umpires do calling the zone now. And it's generally
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: the other umpires who come up through the minor leagues
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: with this system who know that the strike zone is
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: the width of the plate, and that's it. And that
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: was never the case with the Braves. They were good
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: enough to really take advantage of a wider plate. But
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: I think Bobby was just again one of those all
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: time greats who would make adjustments and figure out a way.
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: Whatever the rules of engagement are, he would have un
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: exploit them, but he would take it to the backs
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: in terms of how much you could get out of it.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: And what's interesting too, we kind of forget that he
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: was fired his first time around. Think about managers and
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: the greatest of all time and among the greatest. We've
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: seen Joe Tory fired three times, Tony Laruss have fired,
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: Abby Coxs fired. You know that never happens with great players.
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: But it just goes to show you kind of how
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: it's hard to identify great managers early on. And like
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: we run out of patients or front offices run out
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: of patients. You're seeing them already this year with two
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: managers fired. Like defining what a great manager is really
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: takes a lot of time, and being fired as a
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: manager doesn't mean you can't be someday a great manager.
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: We've seen that.
• 10:40
  Speaker 6: Happen everybody takes a job to get fired.
• 10:43
  Speaker 4: That's really what it is.
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: I don't know what happened with you in Newsday, but
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: I don't really care. All I know is you covered
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: You covered Doc Gooden when he was a rookie.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: Correct, Yeah, I did. Yep.
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: Compare what you saw to what you're seeing from Paul
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: Schemes right now.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: Oh well, I'm glad you brought that up. It's a
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: great comp because the most dominant pitchers of their era
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: end it's a short time. I get it with Skeens.
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: Difference for me is Paul Skins is commanding the baseball
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: with so many pitches and so many quadrants like nobody
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: I've seen before. I used to say Jacob Degron was
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: the highest elevation of the pitching craft that I had
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: ever seen, throw ninety five mile hour sliders and sitting
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: easily at a hundred on his fastball with really pristine mechanics.
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: But Skeins is a guy who make the ball do
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: essentially whatever he wants on all quandrance. Doc was essentially
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: a two pitch guy, which actually was a little more amazing,
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: and he was tipping pitches too. Matter you're a two
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: pitch guy, you're tipping your breaking pitch and guys still
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: couldn't hit him. He was that good. Doc told me
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: a great story once. I never forgot in those years,
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: rookie year, the next year or two. He was so
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: good that if his team scored a run, he was
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: rooting for his team to make the third out, like,
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: I've got enough, guys, I can't wait to get back on.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: He didn't want to sit in the dugout and get
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: seven right. That's how good he was, and that's how
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: the other teams knew it as well. They could know
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: it was coming and not hit. But again, two pitch guy,
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: good luck trying to cover seven pitches from Skins? Who's
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: got you know the way you guys know the game works.
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: Now you need three fast balls, two breaking balls, an
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: off speed pitch. The ball can right at the top
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: of the zone, go glove side, go arm side, or sink.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: I don't know anybody who do that. Does that better
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: than Paul Skins with command, he's throwing strikes.
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: Hey, you'll hunt. Antana tipped every pitch and we couldn't
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: hit him for years. So it happens tom Okay, Then
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: there's guys that tip and everyone hits them, so it happens,
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: all right. So yes, Dwake Gooden was a monster back
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: in the day. Speaking of breaking balls, two pitch guys,
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: Cody Bellinger has figured out how to hit breaking balls.
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: Is this a trajet thing? Is this a machine thing?
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: How the heck did he go from one of the
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: worst breaking ball hitters to now one of the best.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a great transformation. Back in the World Series
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: in seventeen and eighteen, it was just a steady diet
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: of spin and he couldn't touch it, especially kind of
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: breaking underneath the barrel with the inside of the plate.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: He's covered those pitches that give James Rows and the
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: Yanke's hitting coach a ton of credit. He's done a
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: great job with that group. A lot of this is
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: just cutting down the chase on spin and a lot
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: of his just experience. You know, we've always known Cody's
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: had great bat speed. After the shoulder injury in twenty twenty,
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: I really believe it took him like two years to
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: really get his swing back at full strength. And we
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: saw that with guys like Adrian Gonzalez and Matt Kemp
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: those shoulder injuries. Man, you can come back from it,
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: but at full tilt, it's going to take you longer
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: than when you first see you with the batter's box.
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: So I think he's at that point now, fully healthy,
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: hitting a great lineup. Give James Rowson a ton of credit,
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: but yes, he is now a guy who's right now
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: he's the most dangerous slugger in baseball against spin. And
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: if you said that, you know, six, seven, eight years ago,
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: you'd say there's no way. Cody Bellinger, I'll give him
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: a ton of credit because this is the best action
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: seen him as far as handling non fastballs. Wow.
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: Hey, one more quick thing on the way out.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: It's been a big topic this week, and I just
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: remember because I listened to Book of Joe, the podcast
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: with Tom and with Joe Madden, who's on the show
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: frequently too. Tom, you mentioned how the Patrick Bailey trade
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: of course had to do with offense with the Giants,
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: but also a little bit of pitch calling, which I
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: don't think we've talked about here. Can you just enlighten
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: us on that part of it as well?
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there was some talk there that there
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: were a couple of instances there where Billy called I
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: think with seven consecutive pitches with the closer walker, and
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: there's another case where he's stayed in the same pitch
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: a while. You know that's going to happen. I don't
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: know if it's a small sample, those things really are
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: tipping the balance saying we got to move the guy.
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: But I know that Buster Posey, obviously being a catcher himself,
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: wanted Patrick Bailey have focus more on the game calling
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: and staffed running. He's so much into the metrics, which
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: a lot of the young players are now that it's
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: not just about pitch framing. He's the world's best. There's
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: no question about it. I would never take anything away
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: from him framing pitches. Even in an era in AVS
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: maybe those that skill set is devalued a little bit,
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: but it's still super important. You can still change the bets.
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: Uh and he's as good as there is. I gotta
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: tell you, guys, I was surprised that Cleveland made this
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: trade because the Giants traded the guy who's hitting a
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: buck forty three, his slugging was one eighty nine. He's
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: essentially been an out. He's a two twenty three career
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: major league hitter, and they've already had Austin Hedges, who's
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: a great catch and throw guy. Yeah, he's not gonna
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: play five or six times a week, but now you
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: have two the same players there. It shows you how
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: much Cleveland values the defensive side of the game. I
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: also know, like Praig Galbernon's who is his catching coach
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: with the Giants, Stephen Boat's best friend at a big
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: say and saying, yeah, this guy, your staff wants him.
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: So they looked at him very differently than the Giants did.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: But to me, the Giants really they were not in
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: a position to carry a catcher hitting one forty three,
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: and they did have a couple of other options, younger
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: ones with Susik and Rodriguez. But I thought they did
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: player a pretty high price for a guy who I
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: don't think is going much at all. I don't think
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: there's much of a ceiling here for Patrick Bailey offensively.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: The impact defensively though, that's what Cleveland's all about. Let's
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: face it, it's run prevention, run prevention, run prevention, uh,
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: and he's going to fit that formula, and.
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: The Mets should have traded for him, prevention, played him
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: and left.
• 16:28
  Speaker 4: We've had some fun, we've had.
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: Some phone with this, Patrick Bailey, I'm not gonna lie
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: just because I'm with you. I don't see it from
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: the Cleveland side.
• 16:35
  Speaker 6: I just didn't. I didn't get it.
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: But hopefully he goes there and he figures out a
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: hit and becomes the superstar.
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah, but I mean, that's why we like it with Cleveland.
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: I think up until this decade, they only have four
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: years in the franchise history or catches at to sixteen
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: or below. It's a pretty low number. They've done it
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: every year since. This is nothing new with Cleveland where
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: they almost look at a catching position like the pitcher position,
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: like it's totally about the defensive side of the ball
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: and we don't care if you hit or not. Now
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: their offense is better than it was last year, but
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: their ability to carry a bout like that, that's a
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: lot of confidence in pitching a defense.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: And that's why we'd like to just you know, we've
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: got aj and Kratz on here every day. So it's
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: just been a cool one to break down. It's a
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: fascinating deal. We'll see how it works out for Cleveland. Tom,
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: great to catch up with you and for everyone. Yeah,
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: I mentioned a book Joe he's always on with the
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: pod with Joe Madden, but also for Duci's you great
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: name a weekly newsletter, and I said, dot com, I'm
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: about to subscribe, looking forward to checking that out.
• 17:34
  Speaker 6: Can I get a free subscription to that one? Tom?
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: I have to think it is free, absolutely absolutely for you.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: I'll make it happen.
• 17:41
  Speaker 4: Three articles for AJ. He has to read it.
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: That movie do work together. I figured that at least
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: I could get a free article.
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: Every Well, then he's going to quiz you when he
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: sees you at games, So that's.
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: That's never mind, never mind.
• 17:53
  Speaker 6: I read his notes in the playoffs as.
• 17:56
  Speaker 4: You want, Tom, We appreciate it. Great to catch up
• 17:58
  Speaker 4: with you. Enjoy the rest of the week.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: I always follow you guys. Thanks a lot, same here.
• 18:02
  Speaker 4: Thank you.
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: That's Tom Berducci with us on FT and this guest
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: segment hooked up with Game Changer. Hooking up FT today
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: the number one youth sports app, Coach Smarter Connect Live,
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: replay the action.
• 18:13
  Speaker 4: Learn more at GC dot com.
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: Hey on, Poindexter, back with us from the Athletic Socco
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: a little fantasy ball for a few minutes, own. It's
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: great to have you on, dude, and We've been in
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: trouble all day for being behind on segments, so I'm
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: going to be a good soldier and get straight to business.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: So how are you and what do you have for us?
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: This week? We'll start with the good stuff.
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: So if you're playing Fantasy ball and you're looking for
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: a buy, and buy can mean a lot of things. Right,
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: these players aren't necessarily available in your league, but you
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: can try and trade for them. There's a number of
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: ways you can look at with buy because every league
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: is drawn up differently.
• 18:47
  Speaker 4: But where should people be looking stockwise?
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Right?
• 18:51
  Speaker 7: By means I see better days ahead, which could mean
• 18:55
  Speaker 7: they're like good and they're gonna be great, or they're
• 18:57
  Speaker 7: like eh, but they're gonna be good. So who's gonna
• 19:01
  Speaker 7: be better? Mark Biantos, I've been liking what I'm seeing
• 19:04
  Speaker 7: there from the Mets. I guess he's playing first mostly
• 19:07
  Speaker 7: for them. I still kind of think of him as
• 19:08
  Speaker 7: a third baseman. You kind of know what you're getting
• 19:12
  Speaker 7: from this guy. But there's the pretty bad version we
• 19:16
  Speaker 7: saw last year, which was like unplayable for anyone, including
• 19:20
  Speaker 7: anyone's fantasy team, and then there's a good version, which
• 19:22
  Speaker 7: I think we're seeing this year, which is he's swinging
• 19:24
  Speaker 7: super hard and sometimes it goes over the fence. And
• 19:28
  Speaker 7: right now, he might still be pretty cheap in your league.
• 19:30
  Speaker 7: You might be able to pick him up on the wire,
• 19:32
  Speaker 7: and I think you can get some good power, probably
• 19:35
  Speaker 7: low average. I think he's actually been a little bit
• 19:37
  Speaker 7: lucky potentially on his batting average. I think his strikeouts
• 19:40
  Speaker 7: might come up still. I think there's like a lot
• 19:43
  Speaker 7: of good cheap power to look for there.
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: What about the rest of this list, Wilson Natures, I
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: mean that's kind of a cheat one. And then Carson
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: Bench has been swinging a better when since he started
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: playing centerfield. Then they moved him out of centerfield. And
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: then you cheated on Bradish because he's pitching really well
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: against the Yankees today, So you must have before you have.
• 20:01
  Speaker 7: Yeah, right, yeah, you know, I just looked a little
• 20:04
  Speaker 7: bit into the future, you know, and just like, oh,
• 20:06
  Speaker 7: he's got a good one going nice. Sorry, here we go. Yeah,
• 20:09
  Speaker 7: I mean Bradish, I mean he's the guy where like
• 20:12
  Speaker 7: I don't really know how to evaluate that guy, because
• 20:16
  Speaker 7: I mean he's looked so good at points where like,
• 20:19
  Speaker 7: is this the guy? Is he gonna be like a
• 20:21
  Speaker 7: top five pitcher going forward seems like probably not, but
• 20:25
  Speaker 7: we've seen that he has that in him. Listening in
• 20:29
  Speaker 7: it as a buye is honestly a little bit tricky.
• 20:32
  Speaker 7: I feel like I'm cheating on that one, not because
• 20:34
  Speaker 7: I saw him in the future, but because who's gonna
• 20:38
  Speaker 7: sell him for what he's like been so far this year?
• 20:41
  Speaker 7: I'm not sure. I mean, maybe there's guys in your
• 20:43
  Speaker 7: league like that, but you probably drafted him thinking like
• 20:47
  Speaker 7: I just got an ACE at like a Tier two
• 20:50
  Speaker 7: ace price or something, and he's not been that. I
• 20:53
  Speaker 7: think he can get back up to something like I
• 20:55
  Speaker 7: don't know, twenty seven twenty eight percent strikeout raid and
• 20:58
  Speaker 7: like a mid three es eright, a very very good pitcher,
• 21:02
  Speaker 7: and so yeah, we'll see what he's going for there.
• 21:05
  Speaker 7: Wilson Conceris, I think is kind of the interesting one
• 21:08
  Speaker 7: here because you know, we know he's a very solid hitter,
• 21:11
  Speaker 7: but if you look at his spray charts from his
• 21:14
  Speaker 7: time in Saint Louis, it's a pretty like he's hitting
• 21:17
  Speaker 7: it all over the place, you know he but to
• 21:19
  Speaker 7: go the other way sometimes he pulls obviously, sometimes some
• 21:22
  Speaker 7: right down the middle. In Boston, it's everything's toward the Monster,
• 21:26
  Speaker 7: and so I think he's just trying to hit doubles
• 21:27
  Speaker 7: and Homer's straight off the Green Monster. He's just pulling
• 21:31
  Speaker 7: almost as much as anyone in the league right now.
• 21:34
  Speaker 7: And I think he's a good enough hitter to make
• 21:36
  Speaker 7: those adjustments. Sometimes you see guys make adjustments and it's like,
• 21:40
  Speaker 7: you know what the guy you were before you did that,
• 21:43
  Speaker 7: that's just that's the best version of you. Conterraris, I
• 21:46
  Speaker 7: think can mix and match a little bit, and I
• 21:48
  Speaker 7: think he's adjusting to his park in a really good way.
• 21:51
  Speaker 7: I think we might see his best offensive season or
• 21:53
  Speaker 7: one of them this year. Oh yeah, Ben's the other
• 21:56
  Speaker 7: guy I had on there. He's an exciting player. Also,
• 22:01
  Speaker 7: I feel like the Mets now have two of them
• 22:02
  Speaker 7: with aj Ewing. He seems like kind of the same guy.
• 22:06
  Speaker 7: Both super exciting and yeah, I think he just took
• 22:09
  Speaker 7: a month or so to figure out what it is
• 22:13
  Speaker 7: to be a major league hitter, and now we're seeing
• 22:16
  Speaker 7: all the tools come online.
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 22:18
  Speaker 7: First, he's just like the raw athleticism. So yeah, he
• 22:21
  Speaker 7: can run. He can run down five balls in the outfield,
• 22:25
  Speaker 7: and yeah, I think he seems like he should be
• 22:27
  Speaker 7: the center fielder. We'll see how they shake that out,
• 22:29
  Speaker 7: I guess, But yeah, I think the hit tool, I mean,
• 22:32
  Speaker 7: you look as minor league stats pretty solid hitter. I
• 22:35
  Speaker 7: think we're going to see that more and more, and yeah,
• 22:38
  Speaker 7: you're just gonna have a guy with a ton of
• 22:39
  Speaker 7: speed and some power, decent average that's a really good
• 22:44
  Speaker 7: fantasy player.
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: Are you saying that Brandon Marsh should be sold right
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: now because he's not going to hit three point fifty
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: the rest this year, or because you're not buying the
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: fact that, well, his own base percentage is down compared
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: to percentage wise compared to his batting average, but he's
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: normally pretty good on base pers sage guy, So in
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: my opinion, he could still have a great season.
• 23:07
  Speaker 6: He probably isn't gonna hit three fifty though.
• 23:10
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 23:10
  Speaker 7: This honestly was one of these write ups where I
• 23:12
  Speaker 7: kind of look at the top line stats I was like, well,
• 23:15
  Speaker 7: Brandon Marsh can't keep doing that. He's Brandon Marsch. He's
• 23:18
  Speaker 7: like the definition of a league average hitter that I
• 23:21
  Speaker 7: looked into it more, he's kind of fascinating. He has
• 23:26
  Speaker 7: the highest batting average on balls and play of anyone
• 23:30
  Speaker 7: in the league. By a lot over the last five
• 23:33
  Speaker 7: or six years. And it's not because he scorches the ball.
• 23:36
  Speaker 7: He did pretty hard. And it's obviously not because he's
• 23:38
  Speaker 7: super fast. Even though he's got some speed. He just
• 23:42
  Speaker 7: seems to have the perfect launch angle for hitting it
• 23:45
  Speaker 7: between between the infield and the outfield. Basically, he just
• 23:48
  Speaker 7: kind of hits these not like super lasers, but laser
• 23:52
  Speaker 7: enough to get over the infield. So he's kind of
• 23:55
  Speaker 7: a fascinating player. And yeah, he's not gonna keep this going.
• 24:01
  Speaker 7: And the other thing about him is you look at
• 24:03
  Speaker 7: his career stats, he's like almost a thirty percent strikeout
• 24:06
  Speaker 7: rate guy. Usually those you need to have, like Aaron
• 24:09
  Speaker 7: Judge power to make that work just stick around in
• 24:11
  Speaker 7: the league. He doesn't have that, but he's got his
• 24:14
  Speaker 7: other abilities. So yeah, if you can sell him for
• 24:18
  Speaker 7: what he's been or something close to that, I think
• 24:20
  Speaker 7: we're just gonna see something closer to who he's been
• 24:24
  Speaker 7: in his career, which is a very solid hitter, you know,
• 24:28
  Speaker 7: good average, some speed of you know, maybe ten to
• 24:32
  Speaker 7: fifteen homers. Not a bad guy, but not the star
• 24:36
  Speaker 7: level we've seen so far.
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: All Right, one of your holds, I have to ask
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: you just through. I think he went into the eighth
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: inning for the first time ever in his career. Mackenzie Gore,
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: why do you have him on the hold list? Is
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: it because nobody can hit anything in Texas when they
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: have the roof closed.
• 24:53
  Speaker 7: It's mostly just that. I think a lot of people
• 24:57
  Speaker 7: at this point are maybe just and a souring on Gore.
• 25:02
  Speaker 7: You know, maybe not after his last start, but yeah,
• 25:06
  Speaker 7: I just feel like he's a good picture. He came
• 25:08
  Speaker 7: in with a lot of hype and because you know,
• 25:11
  Speaker 7: there was a big deal for him, I feel like
• 25:13
  Speaker 7: that can kind of get in people's heads when it's
• 25:15
  Speaker 7: same with Edward Cabrera in Chicago, who I think is
• 25:18
  Speaker 7: going to be a lot better going forward. Gore, I
• 25:20
  Speaker 7: think is a good picture. He gets a lot of strikeouts,
• 25:22
  Speaker 7: and yeah, Texas pitching their helps. I just think you're
• 25:27
  Speaker 7: gonna see this a little bit of boom and bust
• 25:29
  Speaker 7: with him, and yeah, you got the stats up there now.
• 25:31
  Speaker 7: He's not a five point six seven e er guy.
• 25:33
  Speaker 7: He's more like all be around four maybe high threes.
• 25:38
  Speaker 7: I do worry just generally about pictures going forward, as
• 25:41
  Speaker 7: as things warm up and we've got abs, and I
• 25:44
  Speaker 7: just feel like we might be in for a real
• 25:46
  Speaker 7: offensive year. But obviously that's that's just the market that's
• 25:49
  Speaker 7: going to affect everyone, not necessarily him in particular. I
• 25:54
  Speaker 7: think he's a solid pitcher who you can maybe get
• 25:57
  Speaker 7: for pretty cheap right now because some people are even
• 25:59
  Speaker 7: dropping because he's just had a real rough go a
• 26:02
  Speaker 7: bit for the last month.
• 26:06
  Speaker 4: There you go, I like it, buy so.
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: Old Austin Riley is gonna be fine.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: That's the one that that's the one you feel like, hey,
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: I'm good.
• 26:21
  Speaker 7: So often when I'm writing this column, I'm just looking
• 26:23
  Speaker 7: at really good players having really bad years and like that,
• 26:26
  Speaker 7: like Dever's like Matt Chapman's been so bad, or like
• 26:29
  Speaker 7: this can't keep going right, U must they're hurt. But
• 26:33
  Speaker 7: somebody it's like gall oh Man, like, I mean something,
• 26:37
  Speaker 7: I wonder if he just like wore himself out last year.
• 26:39
  Speaker 7: He played so much. He stole a bunch of basses.
• 26:42
  Speaker 7: We're not expecting sixty homers or anything. But that's one
• 26:46
  Speaker 7: where I'm like, something's gotta be like off right, I
• 26:49
  Speaker 7: mean just I don't go too far deep into him,
• 26:51
  Speaker 7: but you just look at the numbers. He looks like,
• 26:54
  Speaker 7: you know, he can barely a backup catcher.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: Now, my thing is with almost all of these guys,
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: like you said, most of them are still in their
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: prime years.
• 27:02
  Speaker 4: The numbers at the end of the year are not
• 27:04
  Speaker 4: going to look.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: As good as the prior year or two because they're
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: twenty five percent into the season. But are they going
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: to perform like they have in the first quarter. I
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: don't think most of them are. I'm with you there, Owen,
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: And that's where you can actually find good fantasy value
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: because people give up too quickly, and then the weather
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: warms up and you see the stats start to come back. Yeah,
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: I'm with you too. I think Devers will have a
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: nice summer, so we'll see.
• 27:25
  Speaker 6: But it gets colder in the summer, That's.
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: True, it gets colder, and it's a tough ballpark. But
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: relative to that ballpark, I think he's gonna hit. He's
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: not going to look like he did for the first
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: month where it was like what which actually happened last
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: year too, Remember it didn't hit in the beginning and
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: then sorry to come around a little bit, but Owen,
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: good talk.
• 27:42
  Speaker 4: Thank you for jumping on with us.
• 27:44
  Speaker 6: Ohen, what should we do with Anthony Volpi? Since he's
• 27:46
  Speaker 6: batting right now.
• 27:47
  Speaker 4: Oh there you go, ooh.
• 27:49
  Speaker 7: Right now, I predict a double volpi. I mean he's
• 27:54
  Speaker 7: kind of like a deep leaguer for me of did
• 27:56
  Speaker 7: it just happen?
• 27:56
  Speaker 4: No? No, I think.
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 27:59
  Speaker 7: I mean he's fast, he's funny. He's one of those
• 28:02
  Speaker 7: guys where I feel like he's actually optimized for fantasy
• 28:05
  Speaker 7: because he's got some power, he's got some speed. You
• 28:09
  Speaker 7: look at his overall contributions as a player, You're like,
• 28:12
  Speaker 7: I don't know. And then those guys always make me
• 28:14
  Speaker 7: nervous when it just seems like they're only okay as
• 28:18
  Speaker 7: a baseball player, and he's got three years of being
• 28:22
  Speaker 7: not amazing as a hitter. Maybe he puts it all together,
• 28:26
  Speaker 7: but I'm not holding my breath at this point. If
• 28:28
  Speaker 7: he needs some speed, sure go get him. Yeah, and
• 28:31
  Speaker 7: there's been so many injuries you could probably use a
• 28:33
  Speaker 7: lot of teams could use a guy in middle infield. Yeah,
• 28:36
  Speaker 7: I'd say, you know, he probably has some runway there.
• 28:39
  Speaker 7: Because Cabagio sounds like he's gonna be out for a while.
• 28:42
  Speaker 7: He'll probably be on a pace of like twenty five
• 28:46
  Speaker 7: ish steals in like fifteen ish homers and a not
• 28:49
  Speaker 7: great average, So that's useful some places. In other places
• 28:53
  Speaker 7: it's you know, maybe let the next guy get them.
• 28:55
  Speaker 4: No the latest you might have been sleeping.
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: But last night Cabaera went to reporters and was like,
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: the countdown is on for my ten day. I l
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: we're at nine, I'm coming back and I'm claiming the
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: job from the jump so last Sunday, all right, yes,
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: and he is that guy knowing exactly knowing him.
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: I just you just see what happens in this event
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: right now, because if he hits a double right here,
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: Owen's doing, what do I win? You know, you get
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: to do my locks for the rest of you.
• 29:22
  Speaker 4: We're at two, so I was a three two, I mean.
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: Six and fifty dollars is what we win?
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: Nice all right?
• 29:31
  Speaker 4: If he gets a double, so are we.
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: We're going to do one more pitch and then we'll
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: let Owen go, since shallowing a game live when most
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: of the crowd is going to catch this out.
• 29:39
  Speaker 6: But still it's fun. Fun, it's fun Scott.
• 29:42
  Speaker 4: For I'm not the fun Police.
• 29:45
  Speaker 7: Oh my gosh, I've never written.
• 29:48
  Speaker 8: Double well, well, well, this is by far the hardest
• 29:53
  Speaker 8: I've ever written for Anthony Boltby. By the way, I
• 29:57
  Speaker 8: think all of us right now are rooting for Anthony.
• 30:00
  Speaker 6: Yeah, unless you're an Orioles man.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: He needs to double in a hug because I mean,
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: in a week he might be back in the minor leagues,
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: will starting shortstop having a good time as the next
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: year of Jeter man with the Yankees, that.
• 30:12
  Speaker 4: Next Derek Jeter. And right now there's a guy in
• 30:15
  Speaker 4: from him.
• 30:15
  Speaker 6: Many strikes punched him his ticket.
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: You know nothing, Owen, Oh, I never mind, You're well
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: a bunch.
• 30:21
  Speaker 7: Of useless advice here, Audios.
• 30:23
  Speaker 6: Bradish got the strikeout.
• 30:25
  Speaker 4: Bradish I was going to be right one way or another, exactly.
• 30:30
  Speaker 4: Oh and thanks you good catch up. Appreciate you everyone.
• 30:33
  Speaker 4: Check guys working the athletic. We'll talk to you soon man.
• 30:36
  Speaker 4: Thanks guys much pleasure.