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Jazmine Lowther - Pre 2025 World Trail Championship Interview · The Steep Stuff Podcast

• 0:13
  Speaker 1: It's time.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Thank you, ladies and gentlemen.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: We are live.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: Jasmine Louther.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Steep Stuff podcast.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: How's it going?
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: Hey James, I'm doing well.
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm hanging over here in Canfrank, spain, just prepping for Worlds.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: So it's a nice sunny day and I'm just in taper time.
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: So I got lots to chill, lots of time to chill.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: I'm so excited to catch up with you.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: It's been a crazy summer between I think we talked it was we talked the last time before canyons and then speed goat happened, and then OCC happened and the Tita or the grand happened, and it's like here we are and yeah, it's been kind of a crazy summer for you.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it has, and I think going into it I was kind of like, all right, the last bit of summer is going to be fully jam-packed and I had no idea if I'd be able to pull it off.
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: I, so far, am pulling it off, which is cool and crazy.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: I'm definitely doing a lot more shorter distance stuff than I usually would, so that's kind of the cool part about doing shorter distances is you can do more More events, more performances, performances, things like that.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: So, um yeah, lots of learnings, lots of wild things have happened and, uh, excited to talk about it sweet, sweet.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: we'll get into it.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: The first thing I gotta ask you is, like, just between another amazing, like another amazing performance at Speed Goat, then you go and break the grand record, both supported and unsupported, and OCC now go rolling in the world.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: So far of your experiences this summer, what stands out to you as far as like what you're the most proud of and what you're the most excited about from the summer?
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's funny.
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, it's.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: It's definitely been a little bit of a roller coaster, for sure.
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: I think going into speed go, I wasn't fully training specifically for it.
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: It was kind of like, hey, this is going to be a workout, I was seeing it more as prep for OCC and I think that's when you're juggling I was juggling a bit too many races and and just like and adding in an FKT.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: There you start to have to deprioritize things.
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: So it's like, okay, what does this actually mean to me?
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: For me, speed goat it was like all right, this is going to be my workout.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: It's going to make sure that when I get to OCC I'm going to be able to pull this off, because right now I'm distracted with the grand and that's a much shorter, more intense effort with technical and all like that.
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: So, um, yeah, there was a lot of juggling and at the end of the day, I initially, I think tackling the Grand and overcoming a lot of my fears around it, I will say was definitely a moment of like, of like I will get into the story there but I I was scared shitless, if I can say it, about tackling that, that fkt and um.
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: I had a moment earlier in the summer of just going up and down it.
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: Um, I was extremely tired, all these things, and was like kind of rock bottom, had dug myself into the well of low energy, went up the grand and just had like not the best time up there, to be honest, um, and I it just was a day that was not success, set up for success and so with that, and then turning around and and being able to do the grand, um, um, in the time that I did, I was like super stoked for myself, um, having that that personal best on that mountain and actually feeling like connected to it and felt safe while doing it and um, um, you know, confident, moving over the rock and everything like that.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: So that was a pretty cool empowering moment.
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: Um, and I have a feeling.
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: So, and then fast forward, I ran OCC.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: It also wasn't a super priority race, but I just had a really great time out there and it was super fun and that's kind of the magic of being in Europe You're on these crazy beautiful trails and everyone is out, the energy is fire.
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I just had a really great, fun race day and then I have a feeling that this next race at Worlds.
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: The course is just so rugged and wild and I think it's going to be a magical day.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: It will definitely be an interesting race.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: So, um, yeah, I'll say the Grand was maybe like very empowering for myself.
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: Um, and OCC was one of those moments of like, yeah, I do really enjoy racing and I do enjoy this sport a lot.
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: Um and uh, yeah, I think I'll I'll stop there, but, um, yeah, every every race or every time that you put yourself in, like those pushing yourself moments, you walk away with something new.
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: So yeah, so yeah, special very special summer so far.
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: All right, let's talk about the grand.
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: I feel like we can hop right into that one.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: I've been.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: This has uh been a a very special summer for the grand in the sense of like it's been really cool to see like, like multiple now strong women, like take stabs at it and like both have success, which has been so cool to see.
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: I was a little worried and I'm not as close to it as, say, you guys are in a lot of ways but my worry was that people were going to be conflicted after the Michelino situation and nobody would want to touch that mountain.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: People wouldn't want to go for fast times on it and since then we have FKT is kind of I don't want to say change their rhetoric on it.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: But now we have an old route and we have a new route and you were able to maybe tell that story, maybe talk about that, because I think you were integral in a lot of ways, both of you, to having the old route and then the new route established to where it's now a fully functioning thing on fktcom.
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: Totally yeah, yeah.
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: So for me, my journey with the ground I guess it started a few years ago.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: I learned about the ground, the Tetons and everything and it was like, oh, this is a really special place.
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: You know, it's like whether you're in Jackson, wyoming or Idaho on the other side, you drive over there.
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: It's like whether you're in jackson, wyoming or idaho on the other side, you drive over there.
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: It's like a flat valley and then it just rises up out of nowhere and it's just like this big wave and you very distinctly can tell which one is the grand.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: Um, and, yeah, it's magic to anyone's eyes.
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: So, and then last year, um, I was hanging out with michelino when he did his whole thing and I joked with him a few times like, oh, maybe I'll just give it, give it a crack, and you know.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: But, um, it was also his thing at that time and I was training for ccc.
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: So I was kind of like, all right, well, maybe in 2025 I'll, I'll see if I have the bandwidth and the availability to train for it.
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, and then this summer, um, it was like I mean, definitely not, not like the most ideal situation in terms of training for it, because I do believe if you want to have, like your full meal deal, best performance, you want to be like sleeping at altitude um, get to know that mountain intimately.
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: Um, every nook and cranny you want to go up there and, um, you know, usually when you go up there at like a steady, decent pace, it's going to take you six hours, six or seven hours up and down.
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, so I only had like two and a half, maybe three weeks kind of somewhat available for getting to know it and and trying to put my timestamp on it and things like that, to know it and trying to put my time stamp on it and things like that, and then at the same time, also learning that a few other women were giving it the eye.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: So we had Jane Moss, anna Gibson was actually quite interested, there's still Kelly Halpin and then Jen Day Denton over in Salt Lake, so there's actually five women who are all eyeing it up and I was kind of like holy, this could be the year of women on the ground, which is really, really cool, because usually you look at FKTs and it's always like man, there needs to be more women's times on this and it'll make it more competitive and it'll make it feel more like a race.
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, when I rolled up to Jackson, um, uh, there was a I did overlap with Jane a bit and it was kind of cool, you know, like we hung out, we'd grab dinner, things like that, and swap stories of how it was going for each other and we knew very well like we're both going for this thing and that's part of it.
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: So, um, yeah, and she's, she's super awesome and very rad and yeah, so I was just going to go do a workout up there and some of the team around, um, grabbing photos and things like that.
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: They were going to be out there just grabbing some some content and stuff like that.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: They were going to be out there just grabbing some some content, stuff like that.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: So they were already like, stationed up on the mountain.
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: Some of them were just going to run up and down it and I was driving out with Michelino, um, my partner and the speed record holder on the ground, if you may say so, um, and he holder on the ground, if you may say so, and he I can't remember the plan there that day, but yeah, I was going to do my workout and I was definitely kind of nervous because this felt like my day of reckoning of.
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: Is this something that I truly want to pursue?
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: Because in my mind I was still a little bit on the fence.
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: Um, and the reason why.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: So like, when you hit the technical sections you know there are guiding parties up there it's scrambling, um, you can sometimes hit rhyme ice where the rock is completely slippery, and then definitely on the downhill you need to be like super careful.
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: There are a few sections where, if you make one slip, you're going to be taking like a 6,000 foot fall and it's just like thin air.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: So I would be going on these training runs, you know, on a buttery smooth trail and catch a toe on a rock, and then I would just have this like intense, almost like a flashback, not a true flashback, but like a flash into a moment of like, oh crap, what if this happens on the ground?
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: You know, and it was just kind of haunting me um of like, is this a risk that I, jasmine Lowther, am willing to take for an FKT?
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, so I was.
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: I was grappling with that, for sure, and um, so back we're driving up there to the meadow just having like a conversation about the workout I'm going to do is going to be like a tempo.
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: I just wanted to do a time trial up to the meadow, which is like the most non-technical section of the whole thing.
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: It's buttery switchbacks and yeah, mike turns to me and he's like you know, jazz, if want you can just give this whole thing a rip, and I'm not going to tell anyone.
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: And yeah, I was kind of stoked to hear him say that because I was like, okay, cool, we can like just just see.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: So go out there.
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: Butterflies in my stomach, this is not supposed to be the real day or anything.
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: And yeah, I get up to the meadow, um, in decent time.
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: And then I think I met mike somewhere along the way, maybe at the boulders or something, and, um, we go up.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: Uh, he was pretty stoked on the time.
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: We made it to the top um, it's been I think it was 2.33 or something that day and then went back down and it was four hours and like 46 seconds or something like that.
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: And I was pretty stoked with that.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: I was like, holy shit, okay, I can make it to four hours, because the main goal was to be some four hours, yeah, so that was just like cool, I'm stoked on this.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: It lit the fire.
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: Hell, yeah, I'm in All right.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: So that was that.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: And then, because I only had so much time, it was like, okay, basically next week we need to go for this thing.
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: And I didn't even have the option to go up there and what I really wanted to do was just spend time on the technical section and get to know every single move, and I still had not been up there by myself, um, but yeah, it was just the way, the way of um, how much time we had.
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, went up there with Mike and we got up I think it was like 2.25 or something like that to the top and then back down.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: There were lots of parties up there.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: Everyone was great though.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: They were supportive, cheering, we were able to maneuver around, some guided parties, it felt really safe and everything like that.
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: There was definitely one moment where there was a Congo line and I had to wait for them to get through one of the holes, one of the holes and, uh, yeah, but at the end of the day, um, I was pretty stoked with it and it was, yeah, the 351 something, 13, um, I also knew that in mike's eyes at that time, he would not count that as the fkt and as well as any other hard ass on fkTs, because Emily Forsberg time was 3.51.0, which we can talk about this of like what is an FKT and all like that.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: But so that happened, cool.
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: And then I had one week left.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: Andhena was actually going to give it a crack and um, I was kind of curious like, well, what if I try unsupported and things like that.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: And so it was kind of fun.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: I was leaving that day on a noon flight, um, so we both went up.
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: Um, my time wasn't that great and it was kind of hilarious.
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: I was like going the wrong way and everything, but it was also really enjoyable going by myself.
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: So, uh, yeah, I would say for anyone given in a world, definitely do some solo attempts and get to know that mountain really really well by yourself.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, and I got down and it was 4.06.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: I was it wasn't like, oh, that's an amazing time or anything like that, but um, it was still a super fun day and I made it to my flight on time and uh, yeah, flew out.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, at the end of the day it was great.
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: And then one week later, of course, miss Jane Moss.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: She went and it was kind of cool because the same team who were doing the photo and everything for me, they were also out there for her real time, that she was definitely going to get it.
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: And um, yeah, that's, that's what these things are here for.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: They're meant to be broken.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: And um, yeah, she's a super strong runner, so I'm like power, power to her for sure.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: So, um, yeah, and fkts I mean for me as more of a race person.
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to navigate the whole philosophy of a fastest known time.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: Part of me is like FKT should be called smartest known time.
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: Fair, enough.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: Because it's like who can find the most efficient up and down a mountain, and of course this is going to be changing with times.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: And that was the whole thing with the grand was myself, michelino we wanted to go up and down, we wanted to send that modern route to fkt and we actually we were the ones that wrote the description for it and everything like that um, and just to set it right so that no one else is in his shoes and um, that we're working with the parks and and um, at the end of the day, it's it's keeping, hopefully, everyone happy and um, yeah, so it did feel a little bit like full circle, definitely having him there with me, and I think it it lit his fire again to who knows, we might see him trying again in 2026 time will tell but um, yeah, it just felt um kind of full circle having him there too.
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: So it's very special, super special.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: I've got a few questions for you on this.
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: The first one I'd probably go with is I think it's really special with Jane as well, like I think there's some some neat like obviously there's competition, both of you wanted to get the, you know, wanted to do really well and get the record and stuff like that.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: But I think there's also this like higher ideal that, like you're, you're both working really hard towards something and almost like a borderline camaraderie that you can respect one another.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: And I think that's like kind of the highest ideal in the sport where you know, yes, there's a competitive factor, but it's still there's this ultimate respect between, um, you know these competitors, that they you don't have to, you don't have to hate one another, you have to you know, you can really be friends with these people because you know they're also doing this really difficult thing too.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: It's kind of neat, it's different yeah, no, it's super neat and I mean it was fascinating.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: We're both there at basically the same time and it was kind of like which day is she going to be going out for things like that?
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: And sometimes I would be out just going for an easy run and she would pass doing like some sort of workout or things like that, and um, yeah, I think we can have more of that in the sport and it did make it feel a bit more like a race and, um, I mean, yeah, and you're both learning from each other.
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: It's like like cool, we can look at her splits, she can look at my splits, and it's it's all out in the open and stuff like that.
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: So, um, yeah, and I think she did it in a really smart way.
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: Um, she had almost, in some ways, um, she was learning the mountain on her own and I do think that that, in some ways, helped her a lot in the end.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: And she did it in her own way and I have like full respect for that.
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: And, yeah, I think, even on like the downhill, she took this one slightly different section and it was like, oh yeah, that was a really smart move of her.
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: Um, so, yeah, kudos to her for sure um, when you talk about being scared of certain sections or being scared of the route you kind of alluded to in the beginning of the episode, was it more so some of the exposure and having to work around parties up high, I mean that would scare me, like I, you know, when I look at some of the exposure, that and from the photos that, like when Mike was running up there, I'm like dude, oh my God, yeah, it's a little out there for me.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: Um, like, was it more so fear of that?
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: Or you talk about it Like, let me very curious as to here.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was definitely the fear, the exposure and making sure that I'm safe and everyone else is safe.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: So those three things, it's one thing to go up there, you know, with friends or just like nice, cruisy, easy pace, but then adding speed in, it's like, all right, you need to be in control and yeah, like it needs to be done really well and you need to have 150% focus and, yeah, don't mess it up.
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think I guess, yeah, that was eating away at me for sure.
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: And at the end of the day, when I did that first practice run, I think it made me feel more at peace and at calm and calm with the whole situation, like, okay, I do actually feel confident that this can be done safely.
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: And, um, we did have a team of people basically up there like giving the disclaimer hey, there's this woman doing a speed record on it on this day.
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: Um, just be aware, um, if you like, if you don't mind just pausing, and she will move around you.
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: And that's the main thing that we were asking of of people is like we will move around you and make sure that everyone is safe.
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: You're like in a good, secure position and um, yeah, um and yeah.
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: So I think that's just like there's going to be certain mountains that that is the reality, like Denali or Everest, or, yeah, deathly to Grand, for all the things that we're doing out there, then I think it can be done in a respectable way, but yeah, Do you think too?
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: So one of the things, this is like one of the and I sent this to Mike.
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: I sent like the video clip to him just because it was very special when I, when I interviewed Anton, we talked about the grant a little bit and he gave Mike what I thought was like the highest compliment you could possibly give somebody, in the sense where you know, he really endeared himself in a lot of ways to the mountain and did everything he possibly could to learn.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: Every when I talked to him before he did the effort last year he was like dude, I have names for my rocks, the rocks going up.
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: I'm like you're a lunatic.
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: Like I was like what the?
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: hell.
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: Do you think two to three weeks in the timeframe that you did it is enough time?
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: Or do you think if you were to go back and do it again, you'd go and spend more time out there and, just like intimately, learn it more, so that way you know every aspect of it not that you didn't already, because I do.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: I personally think two to three weeks for you obviously worked.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: You were able to do it.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: But do you think you need more time out there?
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: Absolutely no.
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think two to three weeks it's not enough time whatsoever.
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there's a lot of different ways to get up that technical section, the upper saddle.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: Um, even the day that I did it, I went a completely different way than I usually go and I was like, oh God, well, we'll see if this goes.
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: And it did, um, and part of me was like, oh, was that faster, was that slower?
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: I, I don't know.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, I think two months would be great and, um, it's more specific training for it, for sure.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, I mean, mike's been up there 50 times, um, and I think just being used to moving quickly over that type of terrain would help, for sure, and just knowing the splits, everything like that like the back of your hand, um, yeah, bolder sections, and keep trying to go with like that learner eye, almost like a childlike eye, of just being totally open to different possibilities, which I do believe Mike did that a lot with his attempt and everything.
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: He would try different things all the time.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: And, yeah, I just didn't have that resource availability to me.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: Do you think you'll go back?
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: Is that like a possibility for 2026, maybe?
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: it's definitely on the table, for sure.
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, um, definitely on the table.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: And uh, I think it'd be really cool.
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: You know, sleep up there a few times and just that was one of the things.
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: Um, like, I work with a sports therapist, a psychologist, and um, yeah, his, his main thing was like get to know it and, you know, spend time.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: You're going to be dancing with it.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: So I think that mountain deserves every morsel of respect you can give it.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, it's um right now trying to work the race schedule so that it can work.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: That's true, we'll see, that's true.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're also very busy on that front as well.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: All right, let's shift gears and talk a little bit OCC before we get to Worlds.
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: Anything specific to Deeth Brief about OCC.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: I kind of want to ask you the anti-doping question with what went down with Jolene.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: How do you feel about that?
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: Obviously, it's a tough conversation to have and that could fill up a whole other podcast, but I'd like to just get some of your early thoughts on it as to what you think.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, the hot topic.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: No, I think, at the end of the day, the main feeling is like disappointment and it's a bit of like heartbreak.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, it's, it's just so unfortunate.
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: Everything for everyone and um, I feel for especially the three women who would have been standing on the podium and um, and the thing with the Kenyans is that it's really hard for me to grapple with is like% of the dopamine infractions in the road world, and they make up the majority of dopamine infractions First, four times more than I believe Russians.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: Even so, with all of that, it's like why is the information not being descended to the athletes appropriately?
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: And she was working with her running team and she had a running coach and on that running team there were two doping violations in 2024 as well.
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: So for me there's just a lot of red flags there that are hard to get past.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: And you know, the coach put out on social media that they had education and things and that they did their due diligence, and and yet it's like, okay, she still, as per her story, had a knee issue and went into the city saw a doctor who recommended her to get an injection of a drug that, yes, is anti-inflammatory but is also used and was used widely when it changes your metabolism of how you actually use glucose.
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: So it's not just an anti-inflammatory, it actually improves your performance.
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: And it will be interesting if UTMB will release her results from OCC as well, will release her results from OCC as well, because I believe that drug can stain your body if injected into muscle for 60 days.
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, it's really, really hard.
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: But if she were from any other country, if she was from Canada, if she was from Norway, the States, the sanction should be the same across the board.
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: And you know, I think Solomon could have done more in terms of preventing and making sure she had the education.
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: And you know, did they see any red or yellow flags before and prior?
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: I, I don't know, and this is also where, like, they get to walk away, um, who knows, mostly unscathed, or I, I don't know if they see this as like it's a damage to their brand as well.
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, and then the coach and it's like, okay, what was going on there?
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: I don't, it's, it's all behind closed doors and it just it raises a lot of questions and it can make people feel pretty uncomfortable.
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: You know she's a mom and like living in I don't know if she's in poverty or all of those things, but it's.
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: It's not.
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: Not fun for everyone is the main thing, but I do know that it does take away opportunities from the athletes who should have been standing on the podium, and that's not fair.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: Um.
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I think everyone needs to be doing better, um, and definitely for kenya to be like seeing this as as a warning for sure.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: So I think it was a beautiful answer and I had a very thoughtful um and there's a lot of good information in there, so I appreciate you being candid and talking about it.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: It's a tough thing to talk about.
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: I know, you know I've had this conversation with a lot of athletes and some people choose to not talk about it.
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: Some people choose to be very open.
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: So it's an interesting thing.
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: The reason I ask you is because you, in a lot of ways, were personally affected in the sense that you were in the top 10 at OCC and that bumps you up a spot and I know, and I don't know what your situation is like.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: You know, but I know for a lot of people like there's bonuses wrapped up in these things and monetary stuff and it gets complicated.
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I appreciate your, your candidness.
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, a lot of athletes are talking about it and I think for trail runners it's just like really hitting home like wow, this has happened now a number of times and we want to keep our sport clean yeah and yeah, it's like, okay, everyone, let's, let's really do our best, like even this week.
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: you know it's like does someone, is someone having like issues sleeping in their chalet?
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: Okay, let's look at the drugs that you're safe to take, and everyone is doing that.
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: And yeah, I just hope that we can all look out for each other.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: So, I love it.
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: I love it.
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: All right, let's talk worlds, the reason we're here, obviously, amongst a lot of other things, but I am really excited for next week, as I think you guys all are.
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: I think the first things first is I got to ask you the question.
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of folks that take immense pride in representing their country.
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: What does that mean to you to represent Team Canada?
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's something new and it's very it does feel like it elevates it in this way kind of parallels the Olympics, and it's pretty special.
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's a different way of competing.
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: In some ways, there's the team aspect as well.
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: I myself, personally, I definitely have a lot of people to get to know.
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: So I think there's a lot of Canadians that I haven't met yet and, yeah, there's some strong runners out there.
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's kind of cool.
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: I've always thought about, like, when will be the day that I'm wearing the Canadian flag or things like that.
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I guess next week we'll get to do that.
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: And, um, yeah, some some maple leaf magic for everyone.
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: So yeah it's.
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: It's gonna be pretty fun super cool.
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: What, um, what is the like the?
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: What do they have you guys doing?
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: Like?
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: Do you have, basically, do they set you up with like a media schedule and all the stuff that you guys have to do pre-race?
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: Is there a lot of things involved with that or is it pretty much whatever you guys want to do pre-race?
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: How does that work?
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: Is there stipulations and stuff you got to go through?
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so this is my first year going through the whole thing, going through the whole whole whole thing, and as far as I understand, there are some ceremonies and I believe we're they're walking down the street and we got some flags and we're all decked out, um, and I'm not sure how many countries are attending, um, it's it's a fair number 20, 30, maybe 40.
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: But anyways, somewhere in there and it'll be cool to see, you know, like Australia, new Zealand, all over Europe, asia, the Americas.
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: So yeah, it's kind of wild, and I think there's going to be a lot of people that we're not used to competing against.
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: You know, it's not just another utmb, um, I truly do think there's going to be a lot of dark horses, some really strong runners, um, especially running on these trails, um, very technical things like that.
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: So yeah, it's kind of.
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: It's really interesting whether it's going to be like the usuals.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: Is it going to be like the Jim Walmsley's and Katie Scheid's who still rise to the top, or, like, are they going to be fighting tooth and nail with someone that we're not familiar with at all?
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: So yeah, there's a lot of presentations, things like that, um, and then definitely some of the processes are, it seems like a little bit more strict.
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: Um, like before the race.
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: We're all in this room, they're like going through our kit, things like that.
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: You know it's it's only elites racing.
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: There are no recreational runners.
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: Um and uh, yeah, so it might be some different race dynamics too, like at least for the long trail course, especially with so much elevation we will likely have.
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: You know, the men will be ahead for the women's field.
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: At the top you're still passing a lot of guys, which can add like some motivation to your running.
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: Anytime I see someone ahead, it's like oh okay, this is another person to chase, so it'll be interesting not having that quite as much.
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: If that changes things, I don't know, yeah.
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: So yeah, there's definitely going to be some differences for sure.
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: Interesting so course itself for the listeners 50-ish miles, 18,000 feet-ish avert somewhere in that ballpark.
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: What's your immediate reaction to the course?
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: I know I've heard technical.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: Basically that's what I've heard is just different, and technical is what people have told me.
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I haven't seen it with my own eyes, so you paint the picture then.
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's going to be different than any other race I've ever heard of, for sure.
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: So reason why is a lot of it is not on trail at all.
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: You're literally going through graphs, grass, you're going through fields, um, so it's got this like orienteery kind of vibe to it.
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: Of course it will be flagged, um, but uh, yeah, that will be interesting.
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: And then, um, yeah, it's, it's a true mountain race.
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: I would say, however we're defining mountain running, but, um, so there's like a few sections.
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: You're going up a gully, you can be using your hands, um, the rock is still pretty loose.
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, usually in North America this would not be an irregular trail race.
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: It's like, well, this is something I would do with my friends, but I haven't raced this before.
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: It's kind of got that sky running vibe to it and we're going to have to be careful to not be putting rocks down on each other, things like that down on each other, things like that.
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: Um, all, most of the downhills are extremely technical, very chunky, not super flowy.
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: Um, some of them are like dozens of switchbacks and I know we're all going to be cursing the switchbacks.
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, and then there's like some sections where it's like full rock and you're just um, again, there's like no trail or anything, so very wild.
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: I think it's going to be very mentally stimulating, slash draining.
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: So, um, near the end of the 50 miles, that's where, like, yeah, if you're not fueling or anything and you're not stoked about it, like that's going to start to chew you up for sure.
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: Um, I think any fast, smooth runners they might struggle on this course.
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: So I think really the technical runners are going to shine and those who are used to like this is going to run like 100k or 120k race.
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: Um, it's definitely not.
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: I would just consider it a 50 miler.
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: It's going to be slow, um, yeah, and then we'll also see is, uh, how their course marshalling, um, I think a lot of the north americans are really curious about that aspect because there are so many switchbacks and every time there's a lot, there's also a trail that goes straight through them all oh christ, here we go, here we go so, um, I think we're all kind of like okay, how are we going to make this fair, like you either need to say absolutely not, and I don't know if they're going to be checking gpx files or anything like that because it's very normal and accepted in europe to just take the straight line yeah, um, yeah, so, and that would shame off a lot of time for sure.
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, um, yeah, we're hoping they bring that up and, um, hopefully, we, we don't see people cutting corners if that's the rule, yeah, I hope they, yeah, they listen like in the sense where they're open to okay, like this, is there's potential here for you know, and it shouldn't be open for interpretation is what I'm trying to get you know it should be very black and white.
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: Uh, do you, how does it work with like mandatory kits for you guys like, do they make you have like I know utmb is like very well known for oh, you got to bring your your cold gear pants and all that mumbo jumbo?
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: Like, do you guys have to have like all this mandatory stuff in your pack that they'll like check and stuff like that?
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: yeah, we do and, honestly, this is kind of like the first race.
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: Especially if it was a stormy weather day, I would be like we 100 should have all that gear.
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, I, right now the weather is looking okay, so knock on wood.
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: But, um, if, if it were stormy and if people were out there for 12 plus hours, um, yeah, it's definitely an area that you would want to have your space, blanket and pants and everything.
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, it's similar to utmb, um, in terms of requirements and um, it sounds like they will be checking everyone's kit and literally weighing the jackets and um, yeah, it sounds like in the past there has been things um, yeah, people trying to get around it and putting nickels and dimes in their pockets and things like that.
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, oh man, anything to win.
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: I get it.
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: I get it Really cool.
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: You posted a really neat.
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: I'm a big animal guy.
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: I always love the animal stuff, like with local wildlife.
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you a funny story.
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: When I used to live in South Florida we had wild pigs everywhere and I went to jump over a down palm tree one time on a trail and I literally landed on top of a wild pig that's like that got freaked out and then chased me for like a few yards scared the life like living daylights out of me.
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: You had a similar experience.
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: I don't think you were chased, though, like that was a much bigger pig than the one I saw.
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: What was, uh, what was that experience like?
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: yeah, yeah, so I I didn't even think they had pigs here, but, um, I guess they do.
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, it was like a really.
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: You know, it was a back-to-back day, so I was super tired and kind of out of it and just by myself and like crested this hill, put my foot down and wasn't really paying attention and there was like some like a big black blob in my periphery, like only a foot or two away from me, and like my mind was starting to work and trying to figure out this puzzle of what it was.
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: And then it started moving and first I thought it was like a dead body and then I was like holy shit, this thing is alive.
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: And then I was like, oh my God, this is a wild boar.
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: I almost stepped on it and then I kind of like shrieked and then it got up and was super spooked and we both just like bolted opposite ways and then I I like had my running poles out ready and ran for a tree.
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: Dude, they're mean, like they can be mean yeah.
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, because I remember a while back I moved to New Zealand and I used to have like nightmares about like having to fend myself against wild boars, yeah.
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: But this guy, he like went 20 feet away, stopped and then was just like checking me out and I was doing the same thing, and then we both peaced out.
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: So yeah it was.
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: But if I had actually stepped on him, who knows, I might have been in the same shoes as you.
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, terrifying, terrifying.
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: I thought when I looked at the story I was like is that a bear for?
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: Am I looking at it?
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: I'm like trying to like zoom in.
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: I'm like, holy shit, that's a wild boar like you don't see too.
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I did not know yeah, yeah, so far, people have like there's like the wild or wild, there's like the wild or wild cow, there's like the Highland cows everywhere and you know, as runners you do need to be careful and like pay them respects.
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: So oftentimes they'll like go away off trail and around them.
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: And I have been charged by the cows before and then I think just recently, like Sarah Alonso got literally like trampled or something and yeah, really, really scary.
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: So there's that.
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: You know the cows see you and they just kind of stare and you're like okay, you'll go around and then, um, also the sheep, um, sheep are great, but then sometimes there's sheep dogs like hidden inside the herd of sheep and then they'll come at you and uh, like I ran into martina and emily, emily, um schmidt, and uh, yeah, they said they got like followed by three of those dogs and they're like snarling and and barking and stuff.
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: So yeah, there's a few things here you need to watch out for.
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's it's not like Canada where you're always like grizzly bears, but um, yeah, you need to be careful, so interesting.
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: The perils, the perils of the course, almost down to one final question what's going to be the race day shoe?
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: Are you wearing like an arc proto, or are you going to be doing like a something that's out now like what are you?
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: What are you rocking these days?
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: yeah, good question.
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: I will probably still be wearing the silence.
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: Um, to me they're just kind of my my go-to shoe.
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: I feel very comfortable in them.
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: Um, they are sending me the silent twos so I think they get here today or tomorrow and um, they do have an updated foam that's a little bit more, um, energetically positive.
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: So I am very stoked to to try them out and might be racing in those.
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, be fun.
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: But uh, yeah, I do expect it's going to be a long day.
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: Top men's times might be around nine hours.
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: Top women's times might be like, I don't know, 10 and a half to 11, 12 hours.
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: We'll be somewhere in that ballpark.
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: It's going to be a long day out.
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: I mean, this is always a hard question to ask, but what's next after this?
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: Are you going to have some long downtime or are you going to get right back into it?
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: Definitely.
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's.
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: This is going to be off season.
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: I was considering doing Doi, thailand, but I'm like, nah, no, let's, let's just chill.
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: Um, I've got some fun stuff coming up.
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: Um, another trip to Switzerland.
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: Uh, arcteryx, we're doing a week fast pack through the Balkans and Albania together, so really stoked for that, and then at some point I'll get back to the US and then at some point I'll get back to Canada and then it's just going to be like let's chill, let's sleep.
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: Downtime.
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: Just be normal.
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel you on that.
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I may be looking at a golden ticket race next year and then maybe CCC.
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: I guess we'll see, yeah.
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: Super cool, super cool.
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: Well, I want to say thank you so much for coming on and I appreciate you for being open for so many things and talking about all this good stuff from your year and wish you the best of luck on race day and I hope it's an amazing experience for you, especially being your first one, like representing team Canada, Like that's so cool.
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: So I hope you soak it in and it's a very special not just day, but week for you.
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, it's going to be super special.
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: Thanks, james.
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no problem.
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: Thanks, jasmine, Appreciate it.
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: Thank you.