Latest / The Occult Rejects / Mechanics OF Magick: The Witch’s Apothecary— Herbs, Scent & the Nervous System w/ The Alchemist Lady

Transcript

Mechanics OF Magick: The Witch’s Apothecary— Herbs, Scent & the Nervous System w/ The Alchemist Lady · The Occult Rejects

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: You see, something's going to happen.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: What?
• 0:09
  Speaker 3: What's going to happen? Something wonderful.
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: What?
• 0:15
  Speaker 3: I understand how you feel.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: You see, it's.
• 0:22
  Speaker 3: All very clear to me now. Welcome to the Occult Rejects.
• 0:27
  Speaker 3: For thousands of years, human beings have burned plants... crushed roots,
• 0:31
  Speaker 3: extracted oils, brewed herbs, mixed resins, and surrounded ritual with scent.
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: Long before anyone knew what a neurotransmitter was, people already
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: understood that certain plants could calm the body, sharpen attention,
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: alter mood, affect dreams, stimulate memory, or completely change the
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: atmosphere of a ritual space. Today, we usually separate those worlds.
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: Herbal medicine goes on one shelf, chemistry on another, neuroscience
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: somewhere else, and witchcraft, folk magic, and ritual practice are
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: pushed into an entirely different room. But what happens when
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: we stop separating them and start asking what the plants
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: are actually doing? Our guest today lives right in the
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: middle of that question. Jesse Welch, better known as the
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: Alchemist Lady, is an Arizona-based herbalist, educator, product creator, transformation coach,
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: and practicing witch whose work brings traditional herbal knowledge into
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: conversation with modern research. She formulates tinctures, glycerites, salves, creams,
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: and aromatherapy products, teaches about medicinal plants and their chemistry,
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: and writes about subjects ranging from essential oils and active
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: plant constituents to adaptogens, nerve vines, chronic stress, and the
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: nervous system. What immediately interested me about Jessie's work is
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: that she isn't interested in choosing between folklore and science.
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: She wants to know what traditional practitioners believed, how plants
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: were actually used, what compounds are inside them, what modern
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: research can demonstrate, where the evidence is weak, and what
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: our ancestors may have discovered through generations of observation long
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: before they possessed the language of modern pharmacology. And that
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: opens up exactly the kind of rabbit hole we love
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: around here, because today we're going to talk about herbs,
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: essential oils, extraction, scent, the nervous system, plant chemistry, witchcraft,
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: traditional knowledge, ritual practice, and that strange territory where something
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: humanity once called magic begins to reveal a mechanism. But
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: before we introduce her, let me introduce my co-host that
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: is joining me. We got Judith the Loon. What is up, Judith?
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: How are you?
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: Fine.
• 2:35
  Speaker 4: Thank you for having me.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: And welcome, everyone. And welcome, Jesse.
• 2:39
  Speaker 4: Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us. And everyone else,
• 2:43
  Speaker 4: you can find me on YouTube as The Loon on Facebook, YouTube,
• 2:47
  Speaker 4: and The X.
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: Awesome. Thank you so much for coming. I know this
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: is right up your alley, too, with me. We get
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: to nerd out and have some fun today. Yes, we do.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: And, uh, Jesse, please, uh, let everybody know, you know,
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: your website, anything you want to promote, you know, any
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: way to get in contact with you, please let us
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: know what's up.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: Hello, everybody. Thank you guys for having me. And that
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: was seriously the best introduction I think I've ever received anywhere.
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: Oh, thank you. I tried.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: You did my heart good today. So I am the
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: Alchemist Lady. That is the name that I'm called everywhere.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: People actually use that to address me at markets online.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: It's done exactly what I was hoping it would in
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: opening up this business. So I can be found under
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: the Alchemist Lady on every single platform. I'm very lucky
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: that the name I chose, nobody else had.
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: Actually, that's surprising. Good for you.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was really exciting. I've got the dot-com domain
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: and everything.
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I did see that. I actually looked
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: at your website. Very nice stuff. Thank you.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: I just redid it. I'm finishing up with a massive rebrand.
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: So the website is brand spanking new.
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it looks sharp as shit, to be honest. Thank you.
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: You're welcome, you're welcome. So, like I ask all the guests,
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: what what got you into this? How did you find yourself,
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: I guess, into witchcraft or whatever, and then finding yourself
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: going towards herbs or did you start there?
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: So I started down the holistic rabbit hole because my
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: 18 month old had a severe vaccine reaction. Now I'm
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: going to stop everybody right there. I'm not anti-vaccine. Okay.
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: So just to get that like clear out of the way,
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: I believe in science and vaccines are important. But reactions
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: do happen. So that kind of is what really got
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: me started. But it was actually a cult that pushed
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: me full on in to becoming an herbalist.
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: Oh, wow.
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: They didn't believe in modern medicine and we weren't allowed
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: to use it. So I was almost.
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: Oh, you were in Scientology?
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: Huh?
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: You were in Scientology?
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: No no you know you know how they they get
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: crazy with.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: That shit it was called cradle of hope.
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: Okay no i'm just joking i didn't really think.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: The cult junkies know who tom deckard is and it's
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: hilarious when they're like oh my god you were actually
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: part of his shit i'm like yeah i sat at
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: this dude's feet i.
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: Gotta look up this guy after the show thank you yeah.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: He's a character um he died september of 2018 um
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: And that's actually when we left the cult was shortly
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: after that, but they really pushed herbalism, aromatherapy. Oh, sorry, Kat.
• 5:52
  Speaker 4: That's all right.
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: He's not a paid actor. I promise. And I was
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: watching all of these, these recommendations being made.
• 6:04
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: But they never worked. And I, I don't, play things
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: that don't work. So I was like, okay, if I'm
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: not allowed to use antibiotics, what is going to work?
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: What is actually going to function in the body? And
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: from there, it just became this rabbit hole of personal
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: research that then later on turned into actual certifications, actual
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: training programs, chemistry classes, the meat and bones of what
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: I do now. And the witchy side, that's been there
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: since I was nine and started seeing things that nobody
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: else could. So when you grow up with a family
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: that doesn't believe in anything, but are.
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: I used to tease that the only thing on my
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: parents' house that had dust on it was a Bible.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: But they still behaved in a very Christian manner. And
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: so that was really kind of the only place that
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: I had to turn to. And you can imagine how
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: well that worked for me as a teenager, being both
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: queer and being able to do things and see things
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: that other people couldn't. I got kicked out of more
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: than one. Yeah.
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: And then that's interesting. It's funny how you said a
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: dusty Bible on Christians. I feel like that seems to
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: be commonality the last few years.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a whole nother podcast.
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, for real. We better not go down that rabbit
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: hole today. Yeah, some other day. So at a young age,
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: that is wild. You started seeing people or apparitions. Did
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: they look ghostly or did they actually look like people
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: to you?
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: It depends on what it is.
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: Oh, really?
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: So the very first apparition I saw was a bride
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: that was waiting for her husband to come back from
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: World War II.
• 8:17
  Speaker 4: Oh. If I may ask, where was this?
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: We lived in Colorado at the time. It was in
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: my parents' master bedroom. I used to be able to
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: lay in my bed and look across the hallway and
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: just see her standing at the window. And the sense
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: of longing and sadness. And it was as palpable as
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: a personal emotion.
• 8:45
  Speaker 4: So you also felt what she felt, I guess.
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: Oh, absolutely.
• 8:48
  Speaker 4: At the same time.
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: Especially the kid didn't even deal with that. Fuck, man. Well,
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: you don't even, you know what I'm saying? Like, you're
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: still even trying to figure out the world you're in,
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: and then you got, you know, ghosts or people talking
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: to you? Like, shit.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah. That's been my reality since I was, I think
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: I was eight or nine when it first started.
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: You know what's interesting? I have heard around seven or eight,
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: it seems to be, I've heard this before, that it
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: seems to be a common age where these things might
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: start happening, or between, like, I think it was like
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: six and eight or something like that, around eight years old.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: So there's a reason for that.
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there probably is.
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: The process that happens from zero to eight, we know
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: is basically when the foundation of the subconscious brain is established.
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: And so a lot of times when we are helping
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: people to change patterns, to work into new situations, we're
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: actually rewiring things in their brain that happened before the
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: age of eight.
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: So then there's this huge developmental shift that happens after
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: that when the prefrontal cortex starts to change. And that's
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: actually when we... see one of two things happen. We
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: see imaginary friends that are really technically guides start to disappear.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: Or we start to see people coming into that third
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: eye opening. And a lot of times it depends on
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: what the kid's upbringing is, at least in my experience.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: That's what I've noticed talking to people, coaching people, that
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: sort of thing. Um, like my kiddo is going to
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: be 11 this year and her third eye just started
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: opening and I could feel it. And I'm like, I
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: went up to her and I started poking her and
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: I'm like, what is happening? She wasn't a fan.
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: I've always wondered too, if, uh, This may sound crazy,
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: or maybe not. Like, even on children, when they have
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: that soft spot, I've always wondered, like, if that made
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: them more, like, accepted, I don't know, more in tune
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: with the outer world, in a sense, before that closes up.
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: I've always wondered if that made a difference.
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: I think it does.
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: Who knows?
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: Because them babies, man. Yeah. The things they see and
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: the things that they experience.
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: Like, sometimes even if you just watch their eyes, when
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: you watch their eyes, you're just like, Oh, what are
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: you looking at? Like almost kind of like if you're
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: like watching a cat, you know what I'm saying? It's like,
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: what are you staring at over in the corner?
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: Sometimes you'll catch kids and it's just like, Oh, are
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: you seeing something?
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: Usually they are, but they don't have the words to
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: express it. This is what I'm experiencing. We have to
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: give them that vocabulary.
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah. You nailed it. You totally nailed it. Yeah, exactly.
• 11:35
  Speaker 4: So basically that age time between you said, what, six
• 11:39
  Speaker 4: and eight?
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: Well, from birth to eight, really.
• 11:43
  Speaker 4: From birth to eight is either you could nurture it
• 11:46
  Speaker 4: and it could develop better for them. Or like most people,
• 11:50
  Speaker 4: what happens to most people, it gets suppressed by, how
• 11:55
  Speaker 4: can I say, cuckooing them. Oh, that's nice. And dismissing
• 11:59
  Speaker 4: what they see. So they start believing. That actually makes
• 12:03
  Speaker 4: a lot of sense when it comes to developing psychic abilities.
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: And then some of us just don't have a choice
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: and it's there whether we want it to be or not.
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: That's true.
• 12:16
  Speaker 4: You said you're Wiccan, right?
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: No.
• 12:23
  Speaker 4: Okay, you're... I'm just asking, I'm sorry.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: I have beef with Wiccan. No offense to anybody.
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: It's okay. I get that. Well, there's a little.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: Bit too much Christian nuance in Wiccan for me.
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: I could see that to an extent.
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah. The threefold rule. Okay.
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: The whole thing with punishment.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: I get that.
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Like that's baneful. Magic is, is legit. We're allowed
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: to protect ourselves. Yeah.
• 12:59
  Speaker 4: Okay so so that brings my next question that means
• 13:03
  Speaker 4: you you're not part of any you weren't uh never
• 13:06
  Speaker 4: formally changed by any tradition then.
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: Not magically no um i've done a lot of guided
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: initiation feels so like icky to my system um too
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: many um Yeah, like that's just become such a catchphrase
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: for I don't know what I'm doing. A lot of research,
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: a lot of study, a lot of tapping into the
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: energetics that we all have the ability to tap into.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: And if you wanted to give an actual definition, we're
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: Norse pagan. So I work with the Norse pantheon.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: Oh, okay.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: Plasma jam.
• 13:59
  Speaker 4: That actually makes sense. So outside of the cult.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 14:07
  Speaker 4: Where did you go and get the formal training on
• 14:10
  Speaker 4: these herbs? Did you go to like already established apothecary personnel?
• 14:18
  Speaker 4: I don't know what they would call themselves. Those who
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: trained and teach people. The old ways of dealing with herbs.
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: The old ways I've actually learned independently. That has come
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: through research that has come through tapping into my own
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: Germanic ancestry. Yeah. My formal education in herbalism and aromatherapy
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: have come from actual educational institutions. I'm working towards my
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: PhD in herbal medicine right now.
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: Oh, that is awesome. Good for you. Congratulations.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, the witchy side is really more intuition versus
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: the medicinal side, which is where my education is.
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: I got that.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: Makes total sense, actually.
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: Nice.
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: So, was it the herbs and stuff in witchcraft get
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: you to get more into it to get this PhD,
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: or were you going towards that regardless? You know what
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: I'm saying?
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: No, the medicinal side is what I wanted the degree in.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: I don't do enough ritual magic. To have that be
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: something that I was willing to invest actual money into.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: My very dear friend who you also know, Meg.
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: I saw her pop up in here just a minute ago.
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: She's really the one who balances out the magical side
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: with herbalism for me.
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: Um, she is like my, my go-to person that when
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: I have questions that I'm like, Oh, Hey, I don't
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: quite understand this. That's the person I go to because
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: she has invested in that education and she is the most,
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: Oh gosh, I could spend a whole podcast talking about
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: just her honest. Um, because she, she's really the, the
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: herbal magic guru that, I go to.
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: I got you. Yeah, probably knows more of the associations
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: and all that stuff.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I get what you're saying. For sure, it makes sense. Judith,
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: did you have any questions or anything before we.
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: I do have more. It is in reference of your name,
• 16:42
  Speaker 4: Alchemist Lady. And you said your friend, your good friend,
• 16:49
  Speaker 4: is the one who helps the magical side. So when
• 16:53
  Speaker 4: they think alchemy, everyone's thinking... dealing with the planets, elements
• 16:57
  Speaker 4: and stuff like that. Do you go to her for that?
• 16:59
  Speaker 4: Or do you incorporate that in your teachings and books
• 17:07
  Speaker 4: and everything?
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: Not really. So alchemy is really the state of being
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: able to change metal, right? That is what its original
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: definition is. And From that, we can really think that, okay,
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: alchemy is being able to change a state of being.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: And that's where I really, when I thought about, okay,
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: what do I want to be known as in a
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: professional life? I make space where none should exist. I'm
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: able to help people make radical transformation that years of
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: therapy negated in their entire reality because I just see
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: things differently. And so I really, truly take one state
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: of being and I'm able to transform it into another.
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: And that's where the alchemist lady came from.
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah. I would assume once you start messing with
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: plants and the way you use them, in my opinion,
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: that is alchemy. You're extracting stuff from the plants and
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: changing the form. Yeah, I totally get that. Have you ever...
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: It's really interesting. I don't know if you ever looked
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: into it, but even a lot of people from the Renaissance... Mm-hmm.
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: they would attach these herbs. Like they were using them
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: as like, you know, pharmacy, but we're attaching it to
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: astrological shit too. Like it all went hand in hand.
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: I thought that was awesome.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: There's planetary alignment in everything.
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: To, to, I don't do astrology, but to dismiss it
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: also feels foolish.
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: No, I know what you mean.
• 18:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: Um, one question I did have, I did have, uh,
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: Describe yourself both as an evidence-based herbalist and a practicing witch.
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: Where does one end and where does the other begin
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: for you? Or do they? I mean, you might have
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: kind of answered that a little bit, but, you know.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think they do. I definitely don't market
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: the more woo-woo side of myself online. Simply, it's fear-based, honestly.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: I know that I can't please everybody and the icky
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: comments terrify the hell out of me.
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: I get.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: It.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: Stuff's still growing in that area.
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I get that for sure.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: But when I'm working with people, there's such an intuition
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: that I don't think I could operate in the way
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: that I do if I tried to not blend them seamlessly.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: Perfect example, I was working with a gal at a
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: market and we were talking about nervous system support. And
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: I've got... so many different products for that because not
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: every person reacts the same way there's there's different ways
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: that we can support a different nervous system right and
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: i was just being called to put out what's called
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: bacopa monnieri tonic um And that's not traditionally something that
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: we use to support a nervous system. We use that
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: to support cognitive function. And I looked at her and
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: I go, I don't know why, but like you need
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: this one. I was like, I can't explain it. It's
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: just something I'm feeling right now. Well, it turns out
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: she's ADHD. And so much of what's going on in
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: her system is a direct result of the ADHD. And
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: I just knew I can, I can touch someone's hand
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: and know that, that their eczema needs sandalwood versus Roman chamomile.
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: And there's a science in there, right? Because we know
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: that there's chemical constituents in all of those that work
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: to support these various symptoms. But it's the witchy, it's
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: the woo-woo side that allows me to go, no, you
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: need this instead of this.
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: That's actually, Judith, go ahead if you've got anything you
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: want to add.
• 21:08
  Speaker 4: No, no, no, no. I was just saying okay. I
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: was acknowledging.
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: That actually kind of really goes into the next question
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: I really had. Are there herbs, and this is kind
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: of I guess what made me, something made me think
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: about looking into it. I don't know what it was.
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: But I did start wondering, like, you know, do any
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: of these herbs that we use, somehow affect us to
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: where it could almost look like or mimic kind of
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: what they're used for just maybe in a different sense
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: and you know their herbs whose occult correspondences make more
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: sense once you understand their chemistry the psychological effects like
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: are there any of those that seem to pop out
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: to you once you started looking at this and you're
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: like i could see how they suggested for this because
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: it does do this to the practitioner.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, depending on what tradition of herbalism you're practicing,
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: they will tell you that every single herb mimics the
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: body part, as in like how it looks.
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, I've heard that.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: So a lot of the plants that are good for
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: your lungs, you're going to see more of a lung shape.
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: You're going to see things that mimic the circulatory system.
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: So there's absolutely... I wouldn't say conclusive evidence, but it's
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: easy to make those leaps. And when you think about
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: the fact that when you go back and look at
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: the history of where modern day medicine comes from, it
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: started with the priests. It started with the shamans. It
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: started with the medicine women, right? The matriarchs. There's never
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: been a division between between the spirituality of a person
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: the magic of medicine and the actual science of medicine
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: up until like more.
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: Recently yeah you're right about that.
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: And we're doing ourselves a huge disservice it's i don't like.
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: It yeah i mean even like i was saying you
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: had people on the 15 16 probably even the 1700s
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: i was still attributing astrology and all this stuff to
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: to the herbs for medicine I mean, like I've even
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: mentioned Tycho Brahe, I covered him on my show. I
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: think up until like the late 1800s, 1890s, he still
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: had one of his tinctures that he made, which was
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: done under, you know, determining on the stars, was still
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: in a Danish pharmacopoeia book. Like it was still considered
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: a real medicine.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a lot of value that we can gain
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: by looking at how our ancestors practiced. It's not an
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: either or. It's a this and this. Yeah. Go ahead.
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: I'm sorry.
• 23:57
  Speaker 4: That actually makes sense, which actually I do have a
• 24:01
  Speaker 4: follow-up question to that. Because it almost appeared as if
• 24:05
  Speaker 4: we were losing that knowledge and losing that practice. And
• 24:09
  Speaker 4: a lot of the herbs that are essential as we're
• 24:11
  Speaker 4: relearning this, because I feel like we're in a process
• 24:14
  Speaker 4: of relearning with people like you. bringing it to the
• 24:17
  Speaker 4: forefront that a lot of the ailments that we're going
• 24:21
  Speaker 4: through now that is uptake could have been avoided and
• 24:26
  Speaker 4: couldn't have manifested on such a big scale as it
• 24:28
  Speaker 4: did worldwide. If we kept this knowledge and kept it
• 24:32
  Speaker 4: in our diets as well, because it's a lot of
• 24:35
  Speaker 4: these things now, a lot of herbs we're finding out
• 24:38
  Speaker 4: is things that grow up in the back on our
• 24:40
  Speaker 4: backyard and are considered quote unquote, sometimes weeds.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm. Dandelion, that's one of my favorite herbs.
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: Yo, that's a good one to actually mention because so
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: many people, like, do think of them as, like, a
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: weed or I got to get rid of them. But, like,
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: the actual benefits of dandelion is crazy.
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: It's huge. It's almost a superfood, honestly. Yeah.
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: I used to go to, when I lived in Queens,
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: when I lived in Bayside, which, just to keep it real,
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: there was a huge Asian restaurant. community out there i
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: would go to the park and like you'd see the
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: old asian women out there in the park picking the
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: dandelion heads you know i'm saying they're collecting them because
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: they know that it's beneficial and you can make.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: Tea yeah but now we poison them oh yeah yeah
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: and you i i had a i have a friend
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: that she actually has these huge hibiscus bushes like across
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: her entire entire house oh that is beautiful and i
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: asked her one day i was like can i harvest
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: them when it's time can i harvest them and and
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: dry them and she was like what yeah and i
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: was like oh wait you have people that take care
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: of your lawn do they spray for weeds and of
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: course they're sprayed for weeds and i'm like dang it
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: but i will stand out there for five straight minutes
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: and just.
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: Smell them yeah they are uh the beautiful uh You know,
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: that makes me wonder now, like, you know, you go to,
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: not that I'm a big fan of Starbucks, you go
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: to Starbucks and get one of their hibiscus teas. Is
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: that like a hibiscus that's been sprayed for pesticides and,
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: you know, all that shit? Oh, I don't know.
• 26:11
  Speaker 4: That's a good question.
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: Right? I never thought about it.
• 26:14
  Speaker 4: Probably because they're mass produced for that purpose.
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: Unfortunately.
• 26:19
  Speaker 4: And to keep the crop going and so they can
• 26:22
  Speaker 4: make that profit, it's probably sprayed so it's not damaged.
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: Probably spray bread just.
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: Like i have no idea.
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: Man now you're gonna go down all right you're thinking
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: the same thing about chai tea now i'll be like
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: fuck but i have to.
• 26:38
  Speaker 4: Ask you do um since you do you grow your
• 26:40
  Speaker 4: own herbs yourself no i.
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: Don't even think i don't.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: Have space i wish i did But I am very
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: selective about who I source my herbs from. And I
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: make sure that they are both ethically grown and sustainably grown.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: Saffron is not something that I work with because I
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: don't like the practice of the amount of flowers that
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: it requires to create just these little tiny amounts of saffron.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: I'm very selective with rose because it takes something like 10,000
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: pounds of petals, not 10,000 pounds, 10,000 petals. I think
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: it is to make one drop of rose essential oil.
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah.
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: It's ridiculous.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: So when, when we talk about herbalism as a practice,
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: that's something that we also have to be aware of
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: is the, keeping it ethically sourced? Are we destroying the
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: very planet that we are claiming to protect? And so
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: Rose Mountain Herbs is an absolutely phenomenal source for anybody
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: that's looking for a really good place to buy herbs.
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: Local in Arizona, especially in the East Valley, we've got
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: the Southwest Herb Shop. There is a BIPOC owned herb
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: shop in phoenix the name of it is escaping me
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: right now that is absolutely phenomenal um so there there
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: are a lot of really good places that you can
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: get herbs from that are rooted in making sure that
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: the plant is taken care of as it's being cultivated.
• 28:33
  Speaker 4: Actually that's that's one thing to keep in mind especially
• 28:35
  Speaker 4: if you want to get in here and you want
• 28:36
  Speaker 4: to Do it cleanly is where you source your herbs
• 28:40
  Speaker 4: if you don't grow your herbs yourself.
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: I was actually a little anal about that when I
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: was kind of into witchcraft. Or when I was more into,
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: I guess, like using herbs. Ritual work, really. I made
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: sure I got it from an organic place. I'd even
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: buy it in bulk because some of those places only
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: sold it in bulk. And I was like, well, I
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: use this stuff so often, buying a pound of Hysa,
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: but it doesn't matter. And honestly, the crazy thing is, too,
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: is back then, this is going back probably 12 years ago,
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: it was like $ 17 a pound. I was like, I'm
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: going to spend $ 5 of an ounce going into an
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: overpriced witch shop.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying?
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: So I might as well buy it anyway.
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: So, no, but I was very much into, like, yeah,
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: because I did want to, like, you know, I made teas.
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: I used them for baths. You know, I used to
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: do ritual baths, and I used the herbs. You know,
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: this shit's absorbing into me. I want, you know, the
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: cleanest version possible.
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: Oh, so I totally get it.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: Ritual baths are phenomenal. Oh, yeah.
• 29:45
  Speaker 4: Which actually leads to my next question, because how would
• 29:49
  Speaker 4: you actually approach it? Because I know the ritual baths,
• 29:52
  Speaker 4: it does have an effect on your nervous system. But
• 29:55
  Speaker 4: the other ways of using it, and how would you...
• 30:00
  Speaker 4: I hate to say self-diagnosis, but if you're a practitioner
• 30:03
  Speaker 4: of any sort, you're doing some level of self-diagnosis on yourself.
• 30:08
  Speaker 4: So how would someone self-diagnose to find the right herb
• 30:11
  Speaker 4: to help whatever ailment they're having? How would you explain
• 30:15
  Speaker 4: that process to somebody of picking the right herb to
• 30:18
  Speaker 4: fix or to resolve an issue you may or may
• 30:23
  Speaker 4: not be going through?
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: So this is where I have to get really careful
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: because I am not a medical practitioner. I do not
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: have a license to practice medicine. And because of that,
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: I cannot tell someone that they have a certain ailment.
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: I cannot make disease claims. I cannot tell them that
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: this is going to heal you. So I have to
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: be kind of careful about how I word things. The
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: FDA does, in fact, regulate what I do. A lot
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: of people don't realize that. There is quite a bit
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: of regulation that I have to follow because I make
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: products that are consumed internally. So it is classified as
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: a dietary supplement.
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: It's funny, you got to worry about telling somebody, you know,
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: a certain advice on this because of the FDA, but
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: they co-signed the bullshit that went along with Oxycontin. Like,
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: you know, it's amazing. Like what the fuck?
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: One of my most popular graphics. I say that I
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: care enough about herbalism and science to call bullshit on
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: both sides. Like I, I actually had the privilege of
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: meeting one of the people who helped put the dietary
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: supplements in place, um, with the FDA and with the government. And, uh,
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: I had to bite my tongue at one point so
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: hard in the conversation because I wanted to be like, dude,
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: y'all don't think you did what you did. But I
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: tried to be nice. So there's a lot of good,
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: but there's also a lot of bad, right? So what
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: I tell people is you need to go down two paths, right?
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: You need to understand the chemical constituents because the chemical
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: constituents are going to tell you how that is going
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: to interact in the body. And then you need to
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: learn the therapeutic actions. So therapeutic actions are different than
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: common uses. So cold and flu support, right? We take
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: that and we go, okay, that encompasses stuffy nose, sore throat,
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: itchy eyes, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? All the
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: nastiness that we can talk about with cold and flu symptoms.
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: But when you look at it from an herbal standpoint,
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: is your throat dry or do you have mucus in
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: your throat? And that tells you whether you're going to
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: look at an expectorant or if you're going to look
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: at a demulcent. And those are therapeutic actions that tell
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: us specifically what herb is going to benefit the body
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: most in that exact moment in time. So when they,
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: if someone wants to go down the rabbit hole and
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: really start learning this stuff, that's really, don't focus on
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: the common uses because that's great, but you're still not
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: going to get the pinpoint accuracy of what you see
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: in therapeutic actions.
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: No, I totally understand what you're getting at with that.
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: And that's just Western herbalism. Let me clarify that. That's
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: Western herbalism. So traditional Chinese medicine and Ayurvedic medicine use
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: different terms.
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they do.
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: So you pick a practice almost and then dive in.
• 33:45
  Speaker 4: So that actually brings up another question, is how many
• 33:50
  Speaker 4: different practices? Because most people's like, I want to build
• 33:52
  Speaker 4: a apothecary practice. And they start drying herbs and buying herbs,
• 33:58
  Speaker 4: but they don't know that there's so many different practices.
• 34:03
  Speaker 4: So what are the different practices and or forms to herbalism?
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: The three big ones are the ones that I just mentioned.
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: You have Western herbalism, traditional Chinese medicine, and then Ayurvedic practices.
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: And Ayurveda and TCM, traditional Chinese medicine, are the oldest
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: forms of herbal knowledge that we have. And then comes
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: in Egyptian practices. And they were really heavy on aromatherapy.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: And then, you know, we get further into time and
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: you get the Romans and the Greeks and here comes
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: allopathic medicine, right? But it really started... with traditional chinese
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: medicine they have some of the best and most well
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: studied verbal practices in existence um and an interesting note
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: on the fda here is that they don't look at
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: any study that is conducted outside of the united states
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: oh so we are missing out and in in I
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: read studies for fun, so I get to have access
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: to all of this information that we typically don't think
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: about in the States. The way that we practice herbalism
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: in the United States is completely different than even how
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: it's practiced in European countries. We have a very watered-down
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: version of herbalism here in the States.
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: I would even say from when I had covered, you know,
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: with the herbs and the cranial nerve series that I
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: was doing. I still need to finish. I have like
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: one or two more episodes to do. You know, I
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: was including, you know, like what they were used for magically.
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: And then I guess, you know, how they were used
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: and maybe other spiritual, you know, ideas. And just, you know, medicinally.
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: And there was a lot of times where I was
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: like mentioning on these herbs that they were being used.
• 36:03
  Speaker 3: for like almost the same thing that they're acknowledged for
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: now in somewhere else, not here. You know? And I
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: was like, it's really interesting how it's just like compared
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: to the rest of the world, we're pretty slow on
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: this one.
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Science is just catching up too. Like we, we
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: have the scientific process existed back then, right? They, they
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: just didn't have the same name for it. They watched,
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: they observed, they practiced. Cause that's what it is. It's
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: a practice. Right. We don't call witchcraft a religion. We
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: call it a practice because the more you learn, the
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: more you realize you have no clue what you're doing.
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: You don't understand shit.
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: You think you understand something that gives you three more
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: questions to go along with it. You're like, fuck.
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: It's no different in herbalism. Right. So when I started
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: this at almost 20 years ago. My little baby herbalist
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: self was like, oh, yay, I know what comfrey does.
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: And now, now I know what comfrey does.
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: But there's so much that I don't know. And you
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: can't make rapid fire judgments about what you know inside
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: of herbalism without on what you don't know. You have
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: to focus on one plant at a time, one little
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: piece at a time and know how to use it safely.
• 37:36
  Speaker 4: That's very important to say because a lot of people,
• 37:39
  Speaker 4: they start putting their own, um, apothecary together and they
• 37:43
  Speaker 4: start getting into herbalism and they get overwhelmed because instead
• 37:48
  Speaker 4: of sticking to one, they are doing multiple, um, And
• 37:53
  Speaker 4: they actually, it's a, it's kind of an injustice because
• 37:58
  Speaker 4: you shortchange yourself on the full potential of whichever herb
• 38:01
  Speaker 4: you're working with.
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 38:06
  Speaker 4: Even something as simple as basil.
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Basil's a fun one. Magically and medicinally. Yeah. Right.
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: And I think that happens because... Let me actually grab
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: a book here. Hang on. So we have books like this, right?
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: I don't know if everybody can see that. It's the
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: Modern Herbal Dispensary. And this is one of the books
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: that I recommend to beginners because it gives you little
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: pieces of everything, right? But no book... on the face
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: of this planet, can contain 100% of the information, especially
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: when not every single practice agrees. So you see different
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: information in different books. You see different information based on
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: the publisher. You see different information based on where the
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: research was done.
• 39:15
  Speaker 4: And so the.
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: The overwhelm comes from wanting to know everything right now
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: because it's really fucking cool. But then the self-doubt comes from...
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: books like this right that don't have maybe as much
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: information as somebody wants and so it's taking these beginner
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: beginner steps and then going okay what herb do I
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: want to become an expert in What herb do I
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: want to know absolutely everything about? And then you take
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: five different books or you go on to PubMed. Not PubMed.
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: That's an awful recommendation.
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: You know, it's funny. Whenever I do see that come
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: up as like a link for something, I'm always like,
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: I really don't want to go with that one first.
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: You go to Credible Sources.com. that you then can start
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: to compile what is called your, it's a Materia Medica.
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: It's where you store information about herbs. And you start
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: to build your own Materia Medica. I actually have one
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: on my website that I'm still building out. This thing's
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: probably gonna take me another year to build out. That
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: is all the information that I've compiled over the years
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: that people get access to in reference to my products,
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: because education first, I don't want people buying things that
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: they don't understand what's in it. And so this gives
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: them an opportunity to really look at the herbs for
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: themselves and not just take my word for it. Um, well,
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: I guess if it's on my website, they're still kind
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: of taking my word for it, but I like sources.
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: I provide studies when people want studies because it's that
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: important to me for people to understand what they're doing.
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: And yeah, so it's just it's one step at a.
• 41:20
  Speaker 3: Time. Judith, you got anything before I go? Not right now.
• 41:28
  Speaker 3: You know, maybe just because I've mentioned this myself on
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: the show, and maybe you can explain it in a
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: better way for people to understand. You do talk about,
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: and I was even trying to pronounce in the intro,
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: you have talked about nervines, anxiolytics, and adaptogens. What is
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: going on with the nervous system when you mention that?
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: What are those, and what's going on?
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, we live in the U.S., so enough
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: said about why everybody's nervous system is jacked.
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I don't think we got a shot.
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: Sorry.
• 42:04
  Speaker 3: No, no, I totally get it. I totally get it.
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: It's like a heightened state of awareness constantly. It's like
• 42:10
  Speaker 3: a heightened awareness constantly. You're always put on edge. I
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: totally agree. I think it's done on purpose, too.
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: It is. I've taken to where I try to pay
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: far less attention than I was because I don't like
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: a dysregulated nervous system. So when we're talking about specifically
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: the three that you said, adaptogenics, nervines, and anxiolytics. So
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: those are those fancy therapeutic actions that I was talking
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: about just a minute ago. Adaptogenics work with the stress
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: response in your system and helps you to become more resilient.
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: So it works with oxidative stress, which then can impact
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: inflammation in the body. Inflammation, anti-inflammatories. That's usually kind of
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: the hand-in-hand piece, right? So adaptogenics think stress. Nervines work
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: with toning your nervous system. So think about building muscle, right?
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: You have to actually work the nervous system. You have
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: to tone the muscles. You have to do repetitions, right?
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: You're actually working to improve the strength of your muscular system.
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: Nervines help to tone and strengthen your nervous system. Anxiolytics
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: help to calm your nervous system. They work with different
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: pathways in the brain to actually help alleviate and support anxiety.
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: Those are one of my favorites, honestly. I utilize those
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: a lot because I've had chronic anxiety for as long
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: as I can remember. I use them in essential oil
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: inhalers for people who have panic attacks, right? I will
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: combine a Nervine and an Anzeolitic for them to smell.
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: These fun little guys right here. You just pop them
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: open and you smell them.
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: Oh, nice.
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: And you can just carry them around in your pocket.
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: And I create custom blends for people based on their
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: specific situations because there are dozens of different essential oils
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: that are classified as both.
• 44:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I was going to ask. I mean, obviously, since
• 44:32
  Speaker 3: I brought it up that I've covered it myself, there's
• 44:34
  Speaker 3: obviously herbs that have all this in them, right? And
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: that may be not all of them, but, you know,
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: ones that you can find all this stuff within herbs. Yeah.
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: That was one of the things I think I was
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: trying to get at earlier. Interesting how I went with
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: this question anyway, because it's a good example. Even like,
• 44:51
  Speaker 3: I guess, like if you're using one of these as
• 44:53
  Speaker 3: a way to help relieve stress. I do wonder, like,
• 44:56
  Speaker 3: back in the day, could that have been technically a banishing? Like,
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: could that, you know, because you're removing something. You know
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: what I'm saying? Like, is that how it was looked
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: at in the past? I mean, even then, there has been,
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: you know, some disputes, and it is hard to kind
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: of pin down exactly what the word demon means, especially
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: coming from Daemon. You know, sometimes I've wondered if some
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: people back in the day did think maybe it was
• 45:20
  Speaker 3: a little bit more of like a state of mind,
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: and if you're helping to relieve stress, are you banishing demons?
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, let's talk about stage, right? So we
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: smoke cleanse. We utilize garden sage to smoke cleanse if
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: we're honoring the practices of indigenous peoples, right? Sage is
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: a phenomenally nutritive herb. It's very grounding. It's very cleansing
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: for the body.
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah. It's funny, I did use this one in my
• 45:58
  Speaker 3: series as a point to prove what I was trying
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: to get at now. It's funny how you picked sage.
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: Because not to just interrupt you, it even kills bacteria
• 46:05
  Speaker 3: in the air.
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it absolutely does.
• 46:07
  Speaker 3: Like it's banishing the bacteria in your air.
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: Sage is actually one of the best things to use
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: for a mouthwash if you have periodontal disease.
• 46:17
  Speaker 3: Isn't that wild?
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: Like it's one of those studied herbs for the specific
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: bacteria that causes periodontal disease.
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: I wouldn't know if you ate it with food, would
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: it still work that way? Or do you have to
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: like do a rinse? I'm saying you would be chewing it. Okay.
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: I was just wondering.
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: Right. The medicinal amount found in food is very different
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: from the amount that is extracted in tinctures, aromatherapy products,
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: all of that. Right. So you technically, if you wanted
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: to sit down and chew a sage leaf, you could
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: probably get some benefit, but I don't know how like,
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: Come at you.
• 46:59
  Speaker 3: Just get some oil. Just get some oil.
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: That's what makes me gag.
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: Just burn it or get an oil.
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.
• 47:07
  Speaker 4: That example actually brings up several different things I wanted
• 47:12
  Speaker 4: to ask you. Do you believe that not only do
• 47:17
  Speaker 4: our ancestors, the ancients, that this practice was a daily
• 47:20
  Speaker 4: practice for them? It was like, I don't know, getting
• 47:24
  Speaker 4: up and doing whatever tasks they wanted. they were doing,
• 47:28
  Speaker 4: they knew herbs that way, that they not only understood
• 47:32
  Speaker 4: the benefits, but they understood what caused the negative aspects,
• 47:36
  Speaker 4: which is more knowledge than we have right now. For example,
• 47:42
  Speaker 4: you say sage cleaned the air. Could it be that
• 47:45
  Speaker 4: sage could get rid of the spores of certain moles
• 47:48
  Speaker 4: that develop in homes that could cause that bad air?
• 47:54
  Speaker 4: And is that one counterpart that we have been overlooking
• 47:58
  Speaker 4: for so long?
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: I don't remember if sage is an antifungal or not.
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: No question. But I do know that rosemary and tea
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: tree are antifungals.
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: See, that's really interesting because rosemary is considered strong.
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: And those are both used for cleansing.
• 48:15
  Speaker 3: For strong cleansing. Yeah, yeah. I used to use sage,
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: and then I would make my own rosemary and lavender sticks,
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: smart sticks.
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: So there absolutely could be something to that. We often
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: see that what we now know as medicine was called witchcraft.
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: And so to think that over the course of history,
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: every single thing that we have not understood scientifically and
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: logically has always been part of an occult practice and
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: so how even though we're thousands of years you know
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: past the quote unquote dark ages they're in like to
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: say that the things we don't understand.
• 49:13
  Speaker 5: Are not magic like I i can't i just can't
• 49:16
  Speaker 5: do that.
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: We've always called the things.
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: That we don't understand magic and that's the beauty of magic.
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah i would even say like the way that we're
• 49:26
  Speaker 3: trying to make these connections right now it doesn't mean
• 49:29
  Speaker 3: they understood how that happened or how it worked it
• 49:32
  Speaker 3: might have been something they just noticed I think they understand.
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: More than we give them credit for.
• 49:37
  Speaker 3: Oh, no. Yes, no. That I do for sure, especially
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: with just the way I look at other stuff, the
• 49:42
  Speaker 3: stuff that's built on this planet. I just don't believe
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: we were idiots with rocks and sticks. You know what
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: I'm saying?
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: No, there's no way. They built the pyramids.
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: Exactly, yes. You know what I'm saying?
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: We today don't know how they did that, and we
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: don't have the equipment to do it. So how can
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: you tell me that we are somehow magically, not magically,
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: but that we are somehow smarter.
• 50:10
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah. This is the smartest we've ever been.
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Right.
• 50:12
  Speaker 3: I don't buy that. No, no, no.
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: There is, that's a hill I will die on.
• 50:19
  Speaker 3: No, I agree with that. No, I totally agree with that.
• 50:22
  Speaker 3: I totally agree with that. Even like another one that
• 50:25
  Speaker 3: I was going to mention too, that I thought was
• 50:27
  Speaker 3: like really crazy when I came across it, Laurel, uh,
• 50:31
  Speaker 3: Back in the day, the Greeks, I think it was
• 50:33
  Speaker 3: the Greeks, they would wear Laurel around their head if
• 50:35
  Speaker 3: they were taking tests in school because they thought it
• 50:37
  Speaker 3: was good luck with the tests. Now they've realized with,
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: you know, checking Laurel, you know, for what reason they
• 50:42
  Speaker 3: were looking at it. It does, I think they noticed
• 50:45
  Speaker 3: certain parts of the brain that would like, that would
• 50:47
  Speaker 3: be response, whatever, I guess like focusing. Like somehow it
• 50:51
  Speaker 3: actually helps with focusing. And I'm like, well, that could
• 50:55
  Speaker 3: help you with your test.
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah. There are a lot of herbs. that increase mental acuity,
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: mental focus, cognitive function. Um, we even have some really
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: early studies on Bacopa Monnieri in regards to helping support Alzheimer's. Oh,
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: so like, and I'm, I'm talking small. I think there
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: was maybe 20 participants in that study. Um, But we
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: are noticing more and more and more just how big
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: of an impact herbs and plants have on our bodies.
• 51:40
  Speaker 3: Judith, do you have anything?
• 51:42
  Speaker 4: No.
• 51:43
  Speaker 3: Okay. If you had to pick a couple of either herbs, resins,
• 51:47
  Speaker 3: whatever they are, that you would say you're probably maybe
• 51:51
  Speaker 3: the most impressed with or you think is the coolest
• 51:54
  Speaker 3: one that affects the body the most? What would be
• 51:56
  Speaker 3: maybe two or three of them that you could think
• 51:58
  Speaker 3: of right now?
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: Oh, gosh.
• 52:01
  Speaker 3: Sorry to put you on the spot. I'm actually hoping
• 52:03
  Speaker 3: one of them is some of the ones I think
• 52:05
  Speaker 3: is cool so you can talk about it.
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: Bacopa is probably my favorite, honestly, because it's taken my
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: home from... unmanageable chaos to normal I have four children.
• 52:24
  Speaker 3: As normal as you can be with four children.
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. And so Bacopa will forever probably be the
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: most important herb in my journey. Melissa Officinalis, Lemon Balm.
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: That is.
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: Another favorite and it's really nice for beginners because it
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: is an extremely safe and effective herb but it's it's
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: literally like guys won't understand this so maybe i could
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: for guys i can say it's like taking off a
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: jock strap after a sporting event i.
• 53:03
  Speaker 3: Don't know no i was like taking off a.
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: Lemon balm is like taking your bra off at the
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: end of a long day but for your nervous system
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: I could relate to that. I think I get it.
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: It's relief. Yeah. And it doesn't have a whole lot
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: of flavor. It's very neutral. But it's also very grounding.
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: So you can incorporate it into daily practice to really
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: start understanding organoleptic testing and having that intimate relationship with
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: the herbs that you're using.
• 53:41
  Speaker 3: I used to use Lemon Bomb a lot when I
• 53:43
  Speaker 3: first started, actually.
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: That will forever be one of my favorites. What's another
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: one that I absolutely could not live without? Probably Red Clover.
• 53:56
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: That one is such a.
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: It's primarily used to support women during menopause, perimenopause, and
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: can actually be used for teens who are experiencing really, really,
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: really severe menstruation. And I've noticed just working with women
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: over time that with this introduction of this single herb,
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: that it's almost like their entire personality changes. It's not
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: the deep core heart change, but it's how they're able
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: to show up in their reality. It's like a switch
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: gets flipped in their brain. They now all of a
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: sudden get to show up in this supported way. It's
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: such a matriarchal earth.
• 54:55
  Speaker 4: That makes sense because all those points you talk about
• 54:58
  Speaker 4: are points where the hormones are imbalanced. So that's like
• 55:04
  Speaker 4: a hormonal balance thing for us women.
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: And for men, that same thing for men would be ashwagandha.
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: The way that ashwagandha supports testosterone without the... potential just
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: like rage that so often comes. Well, no.
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 55:28
  Speaker 3: Mike, I know what you mean.
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 55:30
  Speaker 3: You don't want the negative aspects of too much. Yeah.
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: It's crazy. Like my husband was really working on his
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: levels and just getting balanced. Um, and he was taking
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: a multivitamin for it. That was just a, a like
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: combination of herbs. And I looked at him one day
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: and I go, dude, no, you're not taking this anymore
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: because I'm not going to put up with this. Like, no, no,
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: You are not you. This is not the man I married.
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: You are showing up in a way that I know
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: you don't like because I can tell by the look
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: on your face, you don't like it. And he switched
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: to the ashwagandha. And he just like he doesn't stop
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: talking about how much better it makes him feel. So
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: there's like you've got it for the women and you've
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: got it for the men. Right. Like there's that balance
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: is huge.
• 56:18
  Speaker 4: Actually, I'm glad you bought. both those situations up because
• 56:21
  Speaker 4: those are two of the least medicated in pharmaceutical in
• 56:26
  Speaker 4: the commercial pharmaceutical area that we can't get the proper
• 56:33
  Speaker 4: medicine or the proper suggestion when male or female go
• 56:38
  Speaker 4: through these things it's more like grin and bear it
• 56:41
  Speaker 4: or it'll pass and there's no relief and it's kind
• 56:46
  Speaker 4: of sad that these aren't looked upon for Help because
• 56:50
  Speaker 4: it is a help, a huge help into a lot,
• 56:55
  Speaker 4: like you said, rage on both sides, male and females.
• 56:57
  Speaker 4: That could happen with the imbalance. And I'm kind of surprised, one,
• 57:03
  Speaker 4: that they haven't been any real studies on the effects
• 57:09
  Speaker 4: on male and females during these times of life with
• 57:13
  Speaker 4: these herbs. Because that's the most, I'm speaking from personal,
• 57:17
  Speaker 4: I'm not going to hide it. I'm speaking from personal experience.
• 57:20
  Speaker 4: That's the most desperate time of your life where you're like,
• 57:22
  Speaker 4: I want to control this. And it is the nervous system.
• 57:27
  Speaker 4: I want to control this, but I don't know how.
• 57:29
  Speaker 4: And you have no input on what I could do
• 57:33
  Speaker 4: to be who I know I am, if that makes sense.
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. And it's more than just the nervous system, too.
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: Because so many people don't realize that hormone production really,
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: truly starts in the gut. Mm-hmm. So like for women, right,
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: we're constantly told, oh, avoid fat, avoid fat. Fat is
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: bad for you. Salt is bad for you, right? This
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: is the message that we're given across the board. But
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: if you don't have enough healthy fats, you can't produce hormones.
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: If you do not have enough sodium, your thyroid gets broken. Iodine.
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: They estimate that something like 84% of people in the
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: United States are iodine deficient. And iodine and selenium are
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: like your thyroid doesn't work without those two things. Estrogen
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: starts in the liver.
• 58:34
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: So it's our nervous system that's responding, right? Because our
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: nervous system is absolutely connected to our endocrine system. But
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: before the endocrine system hits the nervous system, the digestion system,
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: the digestive system has to hit the endocrine system. And
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: we know this. We know that studies exist to support this.
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: So why it's not working? The first conversation that is
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: happening in doctor's offices is it's beyond me, honestly. it
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: makes me cranky.
• 59:11
  Speaker 4: You're not the only one that gets cranky.
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: Doctors only have like six to eight hours worth of
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: education in nutrition in their entire doctorate program.
• 59:24
  Speaker 3: Really?
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: Um, And so anytime I have a woman come to
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: me that is like, how do I get my doctor
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: to listen? I'm like, no, stop trying to talk to
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: your doctor. I want you to go find a registered
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: dietitian who specializes in hormones. Because registered dietitians have thousands
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: of hours of training in nutrition and how that nutrition
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: impacts your body. But they're also trained not in the
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: normal range. Of blood work. They're trained how to optimize it.
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: And they can order said blood work. So. Registered dieticians.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: When it comes to hormone support. Are like. They're freaking phenomenal.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: For people who don't want to go to HRT yet.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: Hmm.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I have heard there is actually a lot of people.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: I can see the gears turning in your brain. You're like,
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: wait a damn minute.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: Full disclosure, perimenopause has not been fun, has not been fun.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: And I am so happy that you are sharing this
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: because and I'm sure there's a lot of other women
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: out there and men, because you did give us both sides.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 4: That are probably going through this right now. And they're like,
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 4: wait a minute, there's relief.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: There's something we can do. Yes, like it doesn't have
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: to be miserable. And I know men are left out
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: of the conversation a lot because we're really at war
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: with men right now. Like I've been accused of being
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: a man hater. Like I really have. And the woman
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: who accused me of it has been popping up in
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: the comments. I keep seeing her.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 3: I guarantee you.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: She's on her couch laughing her ass off right now.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: Because I do get cranky with men, right? But it's
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: because men also haven't been given the opportunity to learn
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: what it is to truly be comfortable in their own systems.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: The patriarchy is bad for everybody, right? And So men
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: aren't taught to understand their hormones in any capacity, just
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: like women aren't. And it's, it does them just as
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: much of a disservice to not talk about it as
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: it does for women.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: They get more studies.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: They get listened to by the doctors more often. Yes.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: They have less red tape. Um, but they still matter. Like,
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: They're here. They matter. And the men that are struggling
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: deserve to be supported too.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 4: You said a very, you use a very interesting and
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 4: I think appropriate word was, you didn't say body, you
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 4: said system.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 4: And I think even when people come into herbalism, they
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 4: don't realize that First is everybody's had the individual system,
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 4: but the male system and the female system are operates
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 4: in two different ways. And we don't have enough education
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 4: and nor do we understand it enough, the different ways
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 4: and what really matters at most of the time.
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: Right. And that that's why when you're doing herbalism in
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: your home, It's pretty okay to just stick with common uses, right?
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: But when you are doing private consults like I do,
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: when you're out there advertising a service, anatomy and physiology
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: is really important to understand. Understanding how the different systems
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: work together, how they work independently, it all matters when
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: you're putting a remedy together for someone. Because I... I
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: often see people in their worst periods of their lives, right?
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: It's my job to create this container of safety where
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: people get to show up who they are, where they're at,
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: and they get to absolutely spill their freaking guts, literally
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: and figuratively, like the amount of times I talk about poop. Oh,
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: my God.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: I know so much about my friends sometimes. But it matters, right?
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: Like our meat suits, that's what I often call them
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: is the meat suit, is a completely separate system from
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: our brains sometimes. Because what we want in our brains
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: and what we want at an energetic level and a
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: soul level is Don't always line up with what our
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: physical body is doing. And so we have to separate
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: out the, okay, this is what my system is doing
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: versus this is where my heart wants it to be.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: Because where you want to be is how we start
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: taking steps and figuring out how to get you there. Okay.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 4: Actually, someone brought up a comment, which actually is something
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 4: I almost forgot when dealing with herbs, too, is how
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 4: the herbs may or may not work with whatever medication
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 4: you're taking as well.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, that's a huge safety consideration. There are several
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: nerve vines and anxiolytics that you really should not take
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: when you are on SSRIs or NSRIs or MAOIs. There
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: are there's a certain pathway. It's called the CY 450
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: enzyme pathway. And certain herbs and essential oils can actually
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: interact with those enzymes and cause a medication to either
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: absorb more quickly, which then can put you into a
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: toxic overload of that medication. Or it can cause the
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: medication to not absorb correctly. And we actually see that
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: happen a lot. with things like warfarin, which is the anticoagulant.
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: And we see it with diabetic medications. So you do
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: have to be very aware of what someone is taking.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: That's actually why my website is HIPAA compliant. Because I'm
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: not a medical practitioner, I'm not required to be HIPAA compliant.
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: But I can't expect someone to give me their accurate
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: medical history if I'm not safeguarding the hell out of
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: that information.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: Understood.
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 4: Understood 100%. I mean, I did bring most of this
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 4: up because some people may decide, I want to diagnose
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 4: myself and go through my own self-diagnosis, prescribing for themselves
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 4: which herbs to take. But it's very important. These are
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 4: things that not even I thought about of the medication
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 4: I'm taking, how it might interact with herbs or where
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 4: to go, obviously, for relief or whatever point of my
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 4: life is. So The amateur person who tries to get
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 4: into this, you said it's important for you to know
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 4: because you diagnose people.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: No, I'm not allowed to diagnose people.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 4: That's right.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: That's true.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 3: I'm sorry.
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: To help. They bring me their symptoms and I can say, okay,
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: this herb supports that symptom.
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 4: But you understand that you go the extra mile to help.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 4: to learn the nervous system, the body and the function
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 4: and where the source could be. What would you recommend
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 4: to someone who wants to start doing this? Not to
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 4: alleviate other medical advice, but to help improve their life.
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 4: Would you suggest that they should learn on their own
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 4: the body and how it works as well?
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: I think it depends on how deep someone wants to
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: go in their own education. Because there is, there's so
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: much to how the body works, right? Like I just
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: saw a comment pop up talking about grapefruit. And that
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: commenter is absolutely 100% correct. Grapefruit has interactions with that
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: CY450 enzyme pathway. So if we're going to go down
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: the road of, okay, in order to support my own
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: system in my own home, with my own knowledge, right?
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: So are we going to start going down the, the
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: path of, okay, now I have to have a nutritionist degree.
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: Now I have to be a certified herbalist. Now I
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: have to do this. Now I have to write it.
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: It can become this thing that is so overwhelming and
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: so heavy that why the fuck am I even wasting
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: my time? Right. It can, it can become such an
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: overwhelming thing. obligation to know everything. And that's not healthy either.
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: So for people who want to learn to support their
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: own system, learn it in a way that fits your system.
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: Learn it in a way that fits your lifestyle. Because
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: if you're not out there talking to people and giving
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: them recommendations on how to fix their system, right? or
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: how to support their system, you only need to know
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: how to support yours. And that's a very different world, right?
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: It's very different. I know my body better than anybody.
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: Somebody else is going to know their body better than anybody.
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: And I think that really matters when we're talking about
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: this kind of stuff.
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 3: Uh, one question I did want to ask, uh, well,
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 3: really two parts. And, uh, it's something that I've even like,
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 3: I guess, wondered myself, even though I covered this stuff,
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 3: I don't know if I've ever actually mentioned, uh, the
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 3: time it takes, but, um, You know, I guess when
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 3: it comes to, you know, I'm thinking ritual work, use
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 3: a lot of incense, you use a lot of resins,
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 3: you're burning a lot of stuff when it comes to inhaling.
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 3: And I'm guessing maybe it takes maybe different times for
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 3: certain herbs or resins. But is there like an average
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 3: idea of how long it actually takes to, I guess,
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 3: start getting the benefits from inhaling these things?
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: So are you talking about olfactory system or are.
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 3: You talking about locks? No, I'm the olfactory, yes.
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: So we know that certain chemical constituents inside of whether
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: it's essential oils, whether it's resin, right, whatever we're talking about,
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: that there are some that show up in the bloodstream
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: in as little as 10 minutes.
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 3: Oh, wow.
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: So for it to get from nose to brain.
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 3: Is almost instantaneous.
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: The way that the olfactory system connects to the brain
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: and then to the rest of the body is endlessly fascinating.
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: The impact that it has on the pineal glands, on
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: the olfactory bulb, on all of the different cortexes of
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: the brain before it even hits your bloodstream is just
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 1: so cool.
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 3: I didn't know it hit your pineal gland.
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: It can, yeah.
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 3: That is really interesting. I have to look into that.
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very, very cool. That's actually one of the
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: classes that I took. All we did was study how
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 1: essential oils impact the olfactory system. And the sensed memories
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: that we can create inside of that, that then just
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: the brief, not even the chemical reaction in the brain,
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: but the memory associated with With that scent, how it
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: can induce a reaction in the body. Yeah.
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 3: That memory can come attached to so much shit.
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: I think that's why aromatherapy is my favorite.
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 3: No, I think it's an extremely important scent for sure.
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like it can trigger a panic attack and you
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: don't even understand why. It can calm a panic attack.
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: I had a client recently that she specifically needed support
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: for flying. She's getting ready to fly to Europe. And
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: so I created something for her and she messaged me
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: a couple of weeks later and she was like, I
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 1: don't remember what you told me was in this. And
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: I was like, well, that's because I didn't. I wanted
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: to test your brain without any preconceived notion of how
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: you were going to react to it and what it
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: triggered memory wise for her. was the smell of an
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: old antique store. And she assumed that the state of
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: calm for her body was from the joy of walking
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: into an antique store. She didn't connect it to the
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: fact that it is actually a scent that is in
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: almost every single antique store that is worth its grain
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: of salt. And this is what that essential oil blend
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: did for her. So not only did she have the
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: chemical reaction, but she then had that immediate emotion evoked
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: in her system that added to that chemical reaction.
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's some wild shit the way that stuff works.
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 3: But it's so cool. You know, especially like as you're
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 3: saying with memories and how scent does that, like I've
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 3: even covered like, you know, in magic and witchcraft, when
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 3: you like go to make sigils or if you're starting
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 3: to do like repetitive mantras, you're going to start creating
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 3: a memory there associated with what you're doing and that's
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 3: going to keep getting recalled. And I don't think most
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 3: people just, you know, odds are because of the way
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 3: we're just even taught. I don't think I myself didn't
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 3: until I looked into it, how much memories can really
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 3: like douche it to your brain. or change your state
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 3: of mind.
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, those subconscious neural pathways.
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 3: Some of the most insane memories that I have had
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 3: that were almost like vivid, like I was almost back
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 3: in that spot has all come from scent too. Very interesting.
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 3: And when you say pineal gland, it's just like, wow,
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 3: what's up with that?
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and we don't really even understand how the pineal
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 1: gland works at this point, right? Like we've got rudimentary stuff.
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 1: But I feel like so much of our knowledge on
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: that is ancestral. And it's feelings that we can't necessarily
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: put into words either.
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 3: I guess now for the next question that I had,
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 3: it was a Tupac question. I guess now when it
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 3: comes to, I guess, maybe the average when you're actually
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 3: the oils. But then I don't know if there is like,
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 3: is it topically, you know, putting it on your skin
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 3: and then I guess ingesting it. There's different times in
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 3: between that, I would think, right?
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 1: So if you apply an essential oil topically, it usually
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: takes about an hour to get into your bloodstream because
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: it doesn't go through the same pathways, right? So the
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: olfactory system is very much like if you were to
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 1: think of a function, it goes in your nose, through
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: your brain, down your spinal column, right?
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 1: Whereas topically, it has to go through multiple layers of skin, tissue, fat.
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: It has to make its way through the fascia. So
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: it takes a lot longer to get into the bloodstream.
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: That's why when we're talking from a medicinal standpoint, hang on,
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 1: I have to let my dog out.
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 3: Okay, all right, not a problem. That's some interesting stuff, right? Yes.
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: You've been whining at me for like 30 minutes.
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 3: No, it's okay.
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: I'm in a bad dog mom right now.
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 3: He's like, we're just going to piss on the floor
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 3: if you don't let me.
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: Out. Topically, we typically only apply topical remedies to things
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: that we want to have go through those multiple layers
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 1: or something that is actually a, a, Topical problem, right?
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: A rash, an infected cut. Comfrey is one of those
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 1: herbs that is widely debated about whether or not it
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: should be used topically only or if it's something you
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: can consume. Because it's got a chemical constituent in it, PAs,
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: that impact the liver and can actually destroy your liver
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 1: when it's taken as an ingestible ingredient. But that doesn't
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: happen when it's applied topically. So how we utilize these
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: things are really, truly very nuanced. There is no right answer.
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: There is only a right solution for the person that
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: is sitting in front of you.
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 3: Gotcha. I like that.
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 4: Nice.
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I never really covered that myself when I talked
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 3: about that stuff, but I knew there had to have
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 3: been a difference. So I guess the olfactory would be,
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 3: I guess, the quickest hit, the fastest. Absolutely. Very interesting.
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 3: That's cool.
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, especially for trying to induce a state of calm.
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: Or if you're congested, smell the essential oils.
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 3: Your nose will be running in a few minutes, right?
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: Yes. I actually had a friend one time, she put
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 1: stuff on her lip and she's like, Jess, it burns.
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, I know it's not meant for your face, girl.
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 1: She's like, but I'm not congested anymore.
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I feel like I failed.
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 1: You as a friend right now. Yeah.
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 3: At least it worked, I guess, right? That is awesome.
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 1: Like BS. and that's that's like the nuance of all
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: the conversation right there's there's people there's other people who
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 1: probably could have handled that being on their face but
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 1: the general rule of thumb is don't do it um
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: there there's a time and a place for for the
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: different types of things that we use for essentials for
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 1: an infusion for a decoction for a tincture for a
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: glycerin like They all have their own specific time and
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 1: place where they're going to be the most effective choice.
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 4: Awesome.
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 3: Judith, did you have any more questions? Or anything that
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 3: you wanted to ask?
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 4: This is a hypothetical possibility thing. And it has to
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 4: do with aromatherapy. But there are scents that are... Everybody...
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 4: are pleasant. They react a certain way. Is there a
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 4: possibility that if someone has an unusual adverse reaction to
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 4: a particular scent, it could alert us to an issue
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 4: that may be going on somewhere within either the nervous
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 4: system or the body itself?
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 1: It's usually an allergic reaction. So the two things that
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 1: we worry about most with herbs are medication and allergic reaction.
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 1: There is also something inside of aromatherapy that you've got sensitivity,
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: which means that it's similar to an allergic reaction, but
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 1: it's more of a, oh, my system just doesn't really
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: like this, right? But then you have sensitization, which is
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: actually an allergy that is created by the overuse of
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: an essential oil. You can actually force your body into
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 1: an allergy by overusing some of this stuff.
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 4: That's important to know. Most people would not even think that.
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 1: It is. The number of people that I talk to
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: that tell me, oh, yeah, now I can't use lavender. Well,
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 1: how much of it have you been putting on your
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 1: body over the years? And the answer is always a lot.
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: There are certain essential oils that if you consume as
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 1: few as 20 drops, it can kill you.
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Which ones are some of that? I remember covering
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 3: something like that. Or some that if you somehow just,
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 3: if you were to even take it to a drastic amount,
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 3: all of a sudden it's okay and now it can
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 3: kill you. But it would have to be like a
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 3: ridiculous amount to take.
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 1: But it's not a ridiculous amount because 20 drops for
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: an essential oil is one mil.
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 3: That's not much of anything.
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: No. There are essential oils that can cause a miscarriage.
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: There are essential oils that cause what's called photosensitization. Photosensitization?
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 1: And that's an essential oil that is going to make
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: your body respond differently to UV light. You run the
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: risk of having third-degree burns if you use things like
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 1: lemon or grapefruit or bergamot in even therapeutic doses and
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 1: then go get UV therapy within 24 hours of that.
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 2: So.
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 1: There really are, and I, essential oils on the whole
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 1: are very safe. Let me say that. Because I don't
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 1: want anybody to be scared away from learning about essential oils.
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 1: When I go the opposite direction of, okay, here's what
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 1: can actually happen. But it is something to be aware of.
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 4: Which most are not. Most don't realize.
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 2: No.
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 1: Hang on, I'm going to let the dog back in.
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 3: All right, awesome.
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 4: Wow.
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah. I remember coming across that when I was
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 3: covering some of these, how there's some that you can
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 3: slightly actually overdose and hurt yourself. And then, like I said,
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 3: there was a few that, for some reason, it was
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 3: just an absurd amount, all of a sudden would just
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 3: turn lethal. It was like, wow.
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's not a huge margin of error. So
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 1: I'm going to throw myself under the bus here because
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 1: I want people to understand that human... is human, right?
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 1: We're perfectly imperfect. So Thursday was my husband's birthday. And
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 1: I started to get sick Tuesday night. And I was
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 1: really rather cranky about it. So all day Wednesday, I
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 1: was more focused on getting the ick out of my
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 1: body than I was paying attention to how much essential
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 1: oils I was putting on my body. And I actually
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 1: overdosed myself. Like as a practitioner, I was not paying
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: close enough attention and I overdosed myself on oregano essential oil. Okay,
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 1: it triggered such a severe migraine that I had to
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 1: take my prescription medication that I keep for emergencies. And
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 1: then it also caused my body to start spotting because
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 1: oregano oil is an amenagogue. So it contracts your uterus
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 1: and in high amounts, it will, it's used to help
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 1: women start menstruation oftentimes when they're a couple of days late.
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 1: But right now, because I did give myself a toxic
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 1: load of oregano, it was harder for my body to
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: recover because And the scent of oregano makes me want
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 1: to puke right now because my body is going, no,
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 1: get it away from me. And so if someone that
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 1: knows the ins and outs of dosing requirements in a
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 1: haze of sickness can overdose herself, that tells you how
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 1: little it can be to cause a toxic reaction in
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 1: the body. Like these things do exist.
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 4: I think that's the one thing most people who decides
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 4: to get into herbalism in the beginning don't realize. Because
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 4: you said something. If you tell someone who's just getting
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 4: started that you could OD on herbs, they'll look at
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 4: you like, okay, what are you?
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 3: You just assume nightshade or something.
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 1: Herbs, not so much. Herbs, it's a lot harder to do.
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, essential oils. It's the essential oils. Yeah. So
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 1: you think about peppermint, right? Everybody and their mother uses
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 1: peppermint for an upset tummy. I can't stand peppermint. I'm
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: contraindicated for it. But one drop of peppermint essential oil
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 1: is the equivalent of, if I remember correctly, 24 eight
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 1: ounce cups of a peppermint leaf infusion. So with herbs,
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 1: it truly is a lot harder. You have to take
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 1: like really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really high
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 1: doses of even a tincture to put yourself into a
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 1: compromising situation, we'll say. But essential oils have completely different
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 1: chemical compositions from something like a tincture or an extract
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 1: or an infusion. They have a completely different chemical makeup.
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 1: So herbs is really a very good starting place for people.
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 1: Essential oils is where you do have to be a
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 1: lot more aware and understand dosing requirements.
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 3: I totally understand that.
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 4: And I have to admit, these are warnings and epiphanies,
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 4: especially for me, that people who decides they're either going to, uh,
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 4: show like a video on herbalism and oils and stuff
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 4: like that. They don't actually give these disclaimers and precautions.
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah. They're especially on social media. They're non-existent. It's take
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 1: this herb, take that herb.
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 3: You know, I could, I could suggest from my own
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 3: experience because nobody told me don't put cinnamon oil in
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 3: your ritual bath. Yeah, I learned that the hard way.
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 3: I was like, shit on my body, I didn't know
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 3: it would burn. I was like, what the fuck did
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 3: I just do to myself?
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 1: There are certain oils that you don't even want to
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 1: apply most essential oils neat, which is where you apply
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 1: the straight oil to your skin. And the number of
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 1: times I hear people say, oh yeah, just put tea
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 1: tree oil on it. No, can we not do that?
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 1: You gotta dilute it. And there are essential oils that
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 1: they have different dilution rates. So some of the milder ones,
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 1: you know, you can, you can safely quote unquote, I've
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 1: seen people go up to a seven or 10% dilution.
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 1: A lot of the classes that I've done don't recommend
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 1: going above 2%. But then you have ones like juniper
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 1: essential oil that the recommendation is not to go above 0.8%
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 1: dilution because it can jack your shit up if you do.
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 1: Like that is one that is really easy to overdose on. Pennyroyal,
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 1: blue tansy, like those in less than minute doses can
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 1: cause really serious side effects. So it's not, oh, it's natural,
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 1: it's safe. Okay, let's talk about cyanide.
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 4: Hmm.
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 1: It's natural. That's natural. Is that safe?
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 3: That's true. I mean, that's a really good point.
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 1: I constantly wonder. So I tease sometimes that a good
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 1: herbalist can kill you faster than they can heal you. Oh, yeah.
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 5: I know that's morbid, but I often wonder, like, how
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 5: many people died in the experimental phases of, like, Ayurvedic
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 5: medicine in traditional Chinese medicine?
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 1: How many people were given a deathly dose while they
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 1: were learning all of this that we now get to
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 1: benefit from?
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 3: There was somebody I came across, I think it was
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 3: a Chinese person or Chinese medicine. Could be wrong or whatever,
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 3: maybe Indian. A lot of the stuff was like the
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 3: guy tried the shit himself. And I was like, you know,
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 3: that is like so ballsy.
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but I mean, you can do that.
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 3: No, but the thing is, we had to experiment with
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 3: this stuff to even see if it worked. I think
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 3: it's a very interesting thing to think about what you're saying.
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. Nurses crack me up perpetually because most nurses,
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 1: when they find out what I do, you can just
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 1: see the look on their face change. They're like, no,
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 1: I don't want to talk to you. And then they
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 1: get to know me and they're like, oh, okay. okay,
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 1: you're all right.
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 3: One of my.
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 1: Really good friends is, is a nurse. And when we
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 1: first met each other, like the looks on this woman's face,
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 1: she has subtitles. Like I do, but her subtitles, every
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 1: single time I would start talking about holistic remedies was like,
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 1: it was like, she was giving me the finger. You guys,
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 1: it was hysterical.
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 1: And now she just went through a bunch of stuff
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 1: with a doctor that specializes in perimenopause. And the first
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 1: thing she did after her appointment, she goes, Jess, look
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 1: at what she told me nutritionally. Is it right?
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 3: That is funny. That's awesome.
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 1: And I was very pleasantly surprised. Like it was really
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 1: good information, which I don't normally see on, the nutrition
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 1: side being really good coming from doctors. So I was
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 1: really excited for her that she found a doctor who
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 1: was just like, so phenomenal. Right. Cause they do exist. Um,
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 1: but yeah, it's fun. The straddling the two worlds for
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 1: me is fun.
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Right.
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 3: I can see how you both, uh, in both telling
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 3: the truth. Yeah, for sure. It's gotta be wild to, uh,
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 3: look at both perspectives too.
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it is. There's benefit on both sides.
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 4: You said straddling the two worlds. Do you ever see
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 4: the two worlds coming together like they should on.
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 3: An official basis?
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 1: Honestly, I think I'm probably too removed from society to
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 1: answer that question validly. I hear stories. And I have
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 1: my own experiences, but I haven't outright been like, okay, people,
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 1: give me your data and gotten a wide sampling of
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 1: information to speak truthfully on that. Because my experience in
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 1: medical professions is that they don't give a crap. Um,
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 1: I have had some of the worst experiences with doctors
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 1: for literally decades. I had to learn on my own
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 1: that I was so iodine deficient that they thought I
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 1: was in perimenopause, but the doctor never ran blood work
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 1: to confirm if I was in perimenopause, right? Like, so
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 1: my experiences with the medical community are, are very bad. Um,
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 1: But I've also had really icky experiences with people in
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 1: the herbal community. People that have caused harm. People that
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 1: have given really bad recommendations. People who are talking out
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 1: their ass. Yeah.
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 4: That's contagious nowadays.
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 1: But then I have stories like my friend who had
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 1: this beautiful, empowering experience with this doctor who literally sat
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 1: down with her for 45 minutes and line by line
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 1: went over everything with her. And so to say that there's,
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 1: there's no intersection where that meets beautifully is, It's got
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 1: to exist, right? Like, I know I exist. And so
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 1: it has to exist on a larger scale than my
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 1: own personal narratives tells me it does.
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 1: But I can't be like, oh, yeah, I can tell
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 1: you this practitioner and this practitioner. I'm too antisocial.
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 4: Well, that brings another question because first I'm going to
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 4: say you have You have truly shown today that you
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 4: earned that name, the alchemist lady.
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 4: And you have educated and brought up a lot of
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 4: questions to me in general. But is it on your
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 4: agenda or could it possibly be added into your agenda
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 4: to possibly conduct some of these research that that is
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 4: a big gap that we're missing right now? Because if
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 4: someone's going to spearhead it, I think you would be
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 4: the best.
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 1: Thank you. That, that's actually why I'm getting my PhD. Um,
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 1: so that I can spearhead that. And when I took
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 1: one of my critical thinking classes, my advisor, I actually
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 1: found a huge gap in research. Um, and my teacher
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 1: at the time told me flat out, he was like,
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 1: I really hope you pursue this. And this becomes your
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 1: PhD dissertation. Um, because I do feel like there needs
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 1: to be a better marrying of the fields. We can't
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 1: continue to have all this knowledge. Like blood work is powerful.
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 1: Like God, it's so just go get your blood work done, please. The, the,
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 1: the amount of knowledge that we have because of modern
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 1: medicine is so amazing like there there is not a
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 1: single herb on the face of the planet that can
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 1: produce thyroid hormones when your thyroid is gone like and
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 1: anybody who tells you that it can you need to
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 1: walk away from really fast but i know those kinds
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 1: of practitioners exist the snake oil practitioners exist just like
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 1: the shitty doctors exist and i think everybody is Everybody
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 1: is so determined, I think, sometimes to be right or wrong.
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 1: We want black and white when really everything is a
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 1: shade of gray. Everything has nuance. Everything has context. Every
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 1: story comes with a background that made you start living
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 1: that narrative. And until we can start dismantling some of this, Oh, only,
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 1: only modern medicine is right. Oh, only herbalism is right. We're,
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 1: we're never going to be able to help people on
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 1: the level that people deserve to be helped. And if,
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 1: if that ends up being me, fantastic. but I think
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 1: it's going to take an entire team of people like
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 1: hundreds upon thousands of people to, to make that disconnect
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 1: disappear because we have to want it to disappear.
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 4: That makes sense. I do have another question that makes sense,
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 4: but the same way we go and we go to
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 4: doctors and, I don't know if this is everyone, but
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 4: when I go choose a doctor, I have a series
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 4: of questions and a series of things I'm concerned about
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 4: before I say I want you to be my primary.
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 4: When someone goes to an herbalist and they're looking for
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 4: an herbalist, what are the top three questions you would
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 4: tell someone they need to ask that herbalist to know
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 4: whether they're fit or not?
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 1: Ooh, that's a really good question.
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 1: I would find out what style of herbalism they practice
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 1: because that's an energetic connection, right? We all have connections
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 1: that we can make outside of the actual medicinal effects.
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 1: So I would ask... them one what what type of
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 1: herbalism and then i would find out how much experience
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 1: they have in the chemistry of herbalism um and that's
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 1: not to say that someone who isn't like super ingrained
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 1: in the chemistry, can't be a good herbalist. I think
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 1: they can be if they're really connecting energetically with the
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 1: herbs that they're using. But that's a different kind of herbalism, right?
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 1: So that kind of goes back to question number one.
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 1: And then third, I would pay attention to their intake form. Now,
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 1: that might sound counterintuitive. Because what is an intake form
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 1: going to tell you, right? But if you have someone
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 1: who is asking you for just your symptoms, that tells
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 1: you that they're not necessarily going to take into account
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 1: the medications that you're taking.
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 4: Hmm.
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 1: Whereas if you have an intake form that says, I
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 1: want you to give me every diagnosis. I want you
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 1: to give me every symptom you are experiencing. I want
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 1: to know if you're dealing with depression. I want to
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 1: know if you have a past drug addiction. And I
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 1: want to know every single medication and supplement that you're taking.
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 1: That's someone who is going to look at the whole picture.
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 1: That is someone that that is an immediate sign that.
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 1: They are going to care, and they're going to care deeply.
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 1: And that's probably going to make some people cranky, but
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 1: I'm really good at making people cranky.
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 3: Judith, did you have anything?
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 2: Oh, no, no, no.
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 4: Actually, that answered all my questions.
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 1: Judith is like, man, now I know how to go
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 1: find me an herbalist, and.
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 3: I'm like, Judith, Judith, we're done. Both of us are
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 3: very much into this, so I'm sure you're loving this, Judith.
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 4: Oh, I'm so loving this.
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 3: Oh, man, I was going to ask, oh, do you think,
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 3: which I think in today's day and age, it kind
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 3: of seems maybe impossible to think that this would ever happen,
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 3: but Um, do you think that maybe, uh, the, I
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 3: guess values or I guess whatever you can get out of, uh,
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 3: these herbs beneficially from, you know, inhaling olfactory ingesting or oils,
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 3: the benefits of this stuff. Do you think, um, there's
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 3: going to be start maybe be like a little bit
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 3: more of science or, uh, like looking at, do you
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 3: think they might start looking into this stuff a little
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 3: bit more than they have in, in the future?
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 1: I hope so, because there's a lot of missing research.
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 1: Do I think that it's going to become mainstream in
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 1: doctor's offices?
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 3: No.
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 1: I want a world where that exists, but I'm just
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 1: going to say it. I don't think medicine wants people healthy.
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah. Which is exactly why I was saying why
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 3: it's kind of hard to even think that this would
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 3: ever happen because it goes against the whole system itself.
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah. As much as I love the advances, I don't
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 1: think that modern medicine is designed for health. I think
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 1: it's designed for profit.
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 1: Because when we're looking at illness in the body, the
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 1: first question really should be is, okay, what does your
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 1: diet look like? Because so much inflammation, so much of
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 1: the chronic illness that we see today can be tied
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 1: to how we process food.
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 1: So... Yeah, I don't know. I want there to be
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 1: more research because we need it. We deserve it. We
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 1: deserve to know how these herbs impact pregnancy and lactation
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 1: more than we do. We don't have anything for most
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 1: herbs aside from what our ancestors can teach us about
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 1: the safety of that. But I don't think we'll ever
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 1: get to a point where... Not in our lifetime, at least.
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 1: That it's modern go-to recommendations.
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah. You know what? And I think the way I
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 3: was kind of, I think, really thinking about it, which
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 3: still is like could take years for it to make
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 3: a difference, because just from stuff that I've looked at myself. Academically,
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 3: when I was covering a lot of these things, I
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 3: did notice a lot of the major studies that I
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 3: was even covering or mentioning were like in the last
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 3: 10 years. So I was wondering, is this something like,
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 3: and I guess what I'm trying to get at is like,
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 3: even in the science academia area, they could be coming
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 3: across this shit. It doesn't mean the doctors and the
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 3: healthcare system is going to incorporate it. You know what
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 3: I'm saying?
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 1: But we probably don't even look at it.
• 1:43:56
  Speaker 3: Well, yeah, exactly. Exactly. But do you think maybe in
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 3: that field, you might get more people like yourself, more
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 3: people want to actually nerd out on, on what can
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 3: this stuff do for us? Do you think maybe we
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 3: have a chance of that at least?
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 1: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. The number of people that are like,
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 1: it's so cool that you do herbalism this way. And
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 1: I'm like, how are more people not doing it this way?
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 1: Because it is so cool. And I never get to
• 1:44:25
  Speaker 1: nerd out with people. I'm very careful about the words
• 1:44:30
  Speaker 1: that I use and how I'm approaching people because I
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 1: don't ever want to make someone feel like they're not
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 1: comprehending what I'm saying. But I love to nerd out
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 1: on him. I was nerding out on shit with my
• 1:44:48
  Speaker 1: husband the other morning and he looks at me and
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 1: he goes, your brain is so fucking sexy. I'm like,
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 1: he may as well have called me a good girl. Like, damn.
• 1:44:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Wow. No, no, that is.
• 1:45:03
  Speaker 1: When you're into the science-y shit of this stuff, the
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 1: more we learn, the cooler it gets.
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 3: Hell yeah.
• 1:45:13
  Speaker 1: And I think making it something cool is what could
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 1: potentially get the younger generations into it. Like my kids,
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 1: listening to them parrot what I say to their friends
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 1: is probably the biggest compliment. But what is even cooler
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 1: is when my 11-year-old can actually explain to her friends
• 1:45:37
  Speaker 1: how it works. And she actually has a registered understanding.
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 1: And that then is pulling these younger kids in, right?
• 1:45:51
  Speaker 1: This is giving them the opportunity, especially little girls, that
• 1:45:57
  Speaker 1: science is not just for boys.
• 1:46:02
  Speaker 3: You know what's interesting? Just my experience. I think I
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 3: actually know more women going into science than I know
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 3: even men.
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 1: Oh, that is so cool.
• 1:46:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no, right now, yeah, I know more women going
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 3: for PhDs in science stuff, even biology and crap like that,
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 3: than I know of men, for sure.
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 1: Okay, see, now you're going to make me go look
• 1:46:23
  Speaker 1: up the statistics, where we are in our current society
• 1:46:27
  Speaker 1: of those numbers.
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 3: No, and I think it's great.
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 1: Because that's the kind of stuff I like to nerd
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 1: out on. give me statistics all day long.
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah no i think uh i'll just keep it honest
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 3: just for myself i from my experience from knowing women
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 3: when it comes to statistics i think you got his
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 3: beat with that shit you guys you guys will just
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 3: like find like anything and then you'll be like what
• 1:46:54
  Speaker 3: happened there why is that like and you're gonna need
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 3: an answer because you can't you know women like it
• 1:47:03
  Speaker 3: so no no so I think it's great.
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 1: And we like to beat it to death until all
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 1: of the people around us submit to the understanding.
• 1:47:15
  Speaker 3: No I definitely think we need some more women scientists
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 3: I think they can take us to some strange areas
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 3: and actually uncover some weird science not saying it in
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 3: a negative way it's just they'll think outside the box
• 1:47:28
  Speaker 3: or maybe even push it a little bit further Yeah.
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 1: I think we know a fraction of what we think
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 1: we do.
• 1:47:37
  Speaker 3: Oh, I totally agree on that.
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's just too much out there. One of
• 1:47:44
  Speaker 1: my kiddos, I've had to have conversations with her at
• 1:47:46
  Speaker 1: this point about how she's got to stop going to
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 1: her friends and talking about how life is a simulation.
• 1:47:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 1: That's okay to talk about in our social circles, but
• 1:48:01
  Speaker 1: you've got to stop talking about it in the wild
• 1:48:03
  Speaker 1: because you're making these kids uncomfortable and then I've got
• 1:48:06
  Speaker 1: to deal with their parents.
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 3: That is funny that I've got to deal with their parents.
• 1:48:13
  Speaker 2: Oh, man.
• 1:48:14
  Speaker 3: The Matrix. Hey, that's to think about.
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 1: We're an alien experiment. I'm determined.
• 1:48:27
  Speaker 3: Even as a kid at one point, I was like,
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 3: I remember even thinking, I was like, for all we know,
• 1:48:32
  Speaker 3: we're just a Petri dish.
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah. We're ants in the ant boxes, and somebody's just
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 1: watching this crazy experiment go down. Oh, yeah, I could
• 1:48:42
  Speaker 1: go down some rabbit holes with you guys. Yeah, I
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 1: told you I'm nuts.
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 3: You're in the right place. Somebody watched this for 10 minutes,
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 3: and it's like they watched us destroy ourselves, but yet
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 3: it's taking us thousands of years and our time and
• 1:48:58
  Speaker 3: space to experience it, you know? Like, who knows?
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 1: Like, yeah, we are going to be the ones to
• 1:49:03
  Speaker 1: destroy humanity. Like, we're going to push ourselves into extinction
• 1:49:08
  Speaker 1: if we don't get our poop in a group.
• 1:49:12
  Speaker 3: I like that. Very well said. Very well said.
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 1: I do that to my kids all the time. Okay,
• 1:49:18
  Speaker 1: you've got to get your poop in a group. I'm
• 1:49:20
  Speaker 1: tired of the piss and vinegar coming out your mouth.
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 3: The piss and vinegar coming out your mouth. I like that.
• 1:49:25
  Speaker 1: They're awesome.
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 3: That's beautiful. Yeah, yeah. Judith, did you have anything else?
• 1:49:34
  Speaker 4: No, actually, I could honestly say.
• 1:49:36
  Speaker 3: Not now, anyway.
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 1: Judith, you just email me and ask me your questions. Like,
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 1: I got you, girl.
• 1:49:46
  Speaker 2: I will. Thank you.
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 4: I'll take you up on that.
• 1:49:49
  Speaker 3: Definitely have to get you on again, too, because I'm
• 1:49:51
  Speaker 3: sure there's other things.
• 1:49:52
  Speaker 1: Oh, I love that. This has been so much fun.
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no, it was a blast for me, for real,
• 1:49:55
  Speaker 3: for real. I was very much looking forward to this, too,
• 1:49:57
  Speaker 3: because this is, again, right up my alley, getting into
• 1:49:59
  Speaker 3: the science aspect of magic. Because, again, I do think
• 1:50:02
  Speaker 3: there's a connection there.
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 1: Oh, absolutely.
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 3: Before we wrap it up, Judith, would you like to
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 3: remind everybody about your amazing show, where they can find
• 1:50:12
  Speaker 3: all your stuff?
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 2: Oh, yes.
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 4: Thank you. And again, thank you, Nick, for having me. Jesse,
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 4: thank you so much for coming on and sharing your
• 1:50:20
  Speaker 4: knowledge with us. It's greatly appreciated. And everyone else, you
• 1:50:25
  Speaker 4: can find me on YouTube, X, and Spreaker, and on
• 1:50:28
  Speaker 4: Facebook as well, as The Loon and as Judith Swanson.
• 1:50:33
  Speaker 3: Thank you so much, Judith. Always appreciate it when you
• 1:50:35
  Speaker 3: make it. I always love your questions and your point
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 3: of view on things, so I always appreciate it when
• 1:50:39
  Speaker 3: you make it here. And, Jessie, please let everybody know
• 1:50:43
  Speaker 3: what's up with you and where they can find all
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 3: your stuff, your website, anything you want to promote.
• 1:50:49
  Speaker 1: So if you want the professional side, you can find
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 1: me on Facebook and Instagram. That's where I keep it
• 1:50:55
  Speaker 1: very PC. If you want the staff to be here
• 1:51:01
  Speaker 1: on the podcast person, go follow me on threads. Oh, really?
• 1:51:05
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 1: There is no professionalism over there.
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 3: I got to check you out over there, actually, because
• 1:51:09
  Speaker 3: you are very professional on Instagram.
• 1:51:11
  Speaker 1: That's where I share the cult stories and the narcissistic
• 1:51:14
  Speaker 1: mom stories. And yeah, we have fun on threads. You
• 1:51:19
  Speaker 1: can always... You can always find me on email, my website.
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 1: And if you're local, keep eyeballs on my website because
• 1:51:28
  Speaker 1: that's where I post where I'm going to be at markets.
• 1:51:30
  Speaker 1: I've got lectures coming up. We're working on getting classes
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 1: going again. I'm working on putting together a 12-week herbalism
• 1:51:38
  Speaker 1: course for beginners. The first thing we dive into is
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 1: chemical constituents and therapeutic actions so that you can actually
• 1:51:46
  Speaker 1: walk into an herbal journey really confident and Um, so yeah, there,
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 1: there's lots of good stuff coming.
• 1:51:56
  Speaker 3: Nice. Uh, you, you, you go to events and stuff.
• 1:52:00
  Speaker 3: You're like, you have boots and stuff like that.
• 1:52:02
  Speaker 1: I do. And I do private events too, like Tupperware parties,
• 1:52:06
  Speaker 1: but holistic wellness.
• 1:52:07
  Speaker 3: Oh, that is awesome.
• 1:52:09
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah. It's fun.
• 1:52:11
  Speaker 5: Nice.
• 1:52:14
  Speaker 3: Uh, how do you like the, uh, how do you
• 1:52:15
  Speaker 3: like the events? Do you, do you enjoy them?
• 1:52:19
  Speaker 1: Um, It depends on the event. I've done some pretty
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 1: crummy ones.
• 1:52:25
  Speaker 3: Oh, it happens. Sometimes you go to ones where it's
• 1:52:26
  Speaker 3: only 10 people show up, and it's like, that's not
• 1:52:28
  Speaker 3: your fault.
• 1:52:29
  Speaker 1: No, I'm talking like Maha and Maga meets the Secret
• 1:52:35
  Speaker 1: Lives of Mormon Wives kind of events.
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 3: Oh, that's interesting.
• 1:52:39
  Speaker 1: Those were not fun.
• 1:52:41
  Speaker 3: I find it interesting that those people would even show
• 1:52:44
  Speaker 3: up at something that, well, I don't know.
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 1: Well, when it's run by those kinds of people... And
• 1:52:49
  Speaker 1: I live in a very red area, so they do exist, unfortunately.
• 1:52:53
  Speaker 1: But shameless plug, Metanoia Toolbox, who is in Mesa, they
• 1:53:04
  Speaker 1: are a women's wellness space that is BIPOC-focused, invited me
• 1:53:10
  Speaker 1: to do a market for their two-year anniversary. And that
• 1:53:13
  Speaker 1: was probably one of the most beautiful experiences I have
• 1:53:17
  Speaker 1: had at a market. Therese, who is the owner, she
• 1:53:21
  Speaker 1: has just collected this beautiful collection of strong, empowered, grounded,
• 1:53:28
  Speaker 1: centered women. And this market just was, oh, I couldn't
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 1: have asked for a better two day event.
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 2: Nice.
• 1:53:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So people like definitely go check out her space.
• 1:53:42
  Speaker 1: Total shameless plug for her.
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:53:47
  Speaker 4: So you're going to be there. When is the dates
• 1:53:50
  Speaker 4: for that?
• 1:53:51
  Speaker 1: No, the event already happened. But she does all kinds
• 1:53:55
  Speaker 1: of different things throughout the months. And she's a nurse.
• 1:53:59
  Speaker 1: That's where she started out. But she's very much in
• 1:54:02
  Speaker 1: this intersection of holistic wellness. They do sound healings. They
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 1: do all kinds of stuff.
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 1:54:14
  Speaker 1: And she just, it, it's a neat, neat group of people.
• 1:54:19
  Speaker 1: And I wish more markets like what she put on existed.
• 1:54:24
  Speaker 1: Cause that, those are the fun ones.
• 1:54:28
  Speaker 4: Nice.
• 1:54:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:54:29
  Speaker 3: I've been to a couple of markets, like either, uh,
• 1:54:32
  Speaker 3: like visited or like, you know, took the podcast to
• 1:54:35
  Speaker 3: a couple of events and had booths. It could be
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 3: a rather interesting experience depending on, I guess what event
• 1:54:41
  Speaker 3: you're at. So.
• 1:54:42
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah. It's, You get a wide array of people.
• 1:54:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:54:46
  Speaker 1: You would enjoy the witchcrafted markets that they have here.
• 1:54:50
  Speaker 1: If you ever get an opportunity to come to Arizona
• 1:54:54
  Speaker 1: around major pagan holidays, there's what's called the witchcrafted market here.
• 1:55:02
  Speaker 1: And it's literally an arena full. I don't think it's
• 1:55:05
  Speaker 1: an actual arena. I can't remember where it's held. Meg,
• 1:55:08
  Speaker 1: if you're still on, put it in the comments.
• 1:55:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:55:12
  Speaker 1: And it's literally just a collection of occult practitioners coming
• 1:55:17
  Speaker 1: together for one giant market.
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 3: That is awesome.
• 1:55:23
  Speaker 4: That is really cool.
• 1:55:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we've got a pretty cool collection of people.
• 1:55:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I've heard Austin, Texas does something like that once
• 1:55:31
  Speaker 3: a year, too. It's a huge show for a few days. Yeah,
• 1:55:34
  Speaker 3: I think there was a guy who I had on
• 1:55:35
  Speaker 3: the show was going, and that's the only way I
• 1:55:37
  Speaker 3: even found out about it.
• 1:55:39
  Speaker 1: I love Wild. I never would have expected that.
• 1:55:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think Thumper Forge. Thumper Forge. Yeah.
• 1:55:43
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:55:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:55:44
  Speaker 3: I think he, uh, he was the one who I
• 1:55:46
  Speaker 3: think was going there. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, yeah. Interesting. I,
• 1:55:50
  Speaker 3: and actually, you know, coming in November, I mean, it's
• 1:55:52
  Speaker 3: a little different, uh, Friday RC. And, uh, I think
• 1:55:55
  Speaker 3: a couple other people, I think it's going to be
• 1:55:57
  Speaker 3: like a two or three day event is doing some
• 1:55:58
  Speaker 3: sort of like kind of a Nokia con or Nokia
• 1:56:01
  Speaker 3: and like a thing called in Austin, Texas in November.
• 1:56:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:56:05
  Speaker 3: So, yeah, hopefully, uh, that, that should go well too,
• 1:56:08
  Speaker 3: but she.
• 1:56:09
  Speaker 1: Is still on Glendale civic center.
• 1:56:11
  Speaker 3: Uh, That is awesome. That is crazy. That's funny. You
• 1:56:15
  Speaker 3: definitely know she's still listening. Nice. Thanks for staying on.
• 1:56:19
  Speaker 3: Appreciate it.
• 1:56:20
  Speaker 1: Oh, she's my biggest fan, I think, honestly.
• 1:56:23
  Speaker 3: She was the one who told me about you. Yeah,
• 1:56:28
  Speaker 3: she is.
• 1:56:30
  Speaker 1: But that's genuinely who she is. Like, you... You guys
• 1:56:33
  Speaker 1: need to get her on the podcast now.
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I know. She has mentioned, she said maybe
• 1:56:38
  Speaker 3: one day she will. I told her she's always welcome
• 1:56:41
  Speaker 3: to come on whenever she gets over the fear.
• 1:56:43
  Speaker 4: I actually have an idea on that, on having both
• 1:56:45
  Speaker 4: you and her on to give both aspects of it
• 1:56:48
  Speaker 4: with the.
• 1:56:49
  Speaker 1: Both knowledge you have. Oh, I regret that decision because
• 1:56:54
  Speaker 1: the shenanigans.
• 1:56:55
  Speaker 3: Oh, that would be fun though. It would be a
• 1:56:57
  Speaker 3: shit show. Yeah, no, you guys should do that. That
• 1:57:00
  Speaker 3: would be hilarious probably.
• 1:57:02
  Speaker 1: She brings out the absolute boon in me.
• 1:57:11
  Speaker 3: That's great, though. That's good, though. That's beautiful. Nice. Make
• 1:57:18
  Speaker 3: that happen.
• 1:57:21
  Speaker 1: Hey, if she's down, I'll do it. Awesome.
• 1:57:23
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 1:57:24
  Speaker 3: We'll keep on bugging her at some point and she'll
• 1:57:26
  Speaker 3: say yes.
• 1:57:27
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
• 1:57:28
  Speaker 3: Awesome. Well, thank you again. Thank you for coming on.
• 1:57:33
  Speaker 3: Like I said, like, and I really mean it too.
• 1:57:35
  Speaker 3: I definitely have to get you back on in the future.
• 1:57:36
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah.
• 1:57:38
  Speaker 1: Just let me know.
• 1:57:39
  Speaker 3: Let's nerd out. Yeah, no, no. I even think like
• 1:57:43
  Speaker 3: maybe even in the future we could even like maybe
• 1:57:45
  Speaker 3: even pick maybe a couple of these things and just
• 1:57:47
  Speaker 3: kind of get into them and nerd out a little bit.
• 1:57:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:57:51
  Speaker 3: I think that would be a lot of fun. Um,
• 1:57:54
  Speaker 3: thank you.
• 1:57:54
  Speaker 1: I feel honored to be here.
• 1:57:56
  Speaker 3: So no, I wanted to have you on as a guest, please.
• 1:57:59
  Speaker 3: Thank you. I mean, you're the one who's a lot
• 1:58:01
  Speaker 3: more educated on this than I am. And I appreciate
• 1:58:04
  Speaker 3: you sharing it with my audience, for real. I love it. Yeah,
• 1:58:08
  Speaker 3: and I guess that's it. I guess I'll shut up
• 1:58:11
  Speaker 3: and thank everybody in the chat for coming and checking
• 1:58:14
  Speaker 3: it out. Again, Megan, thank you so much for suggesting
• 1:58:16
  Speaker 3: her as a guest. It was an amazing talk, and
• 1:58:20
  Speaker 3: I thoroughly enjoyed it. And that's the end of another
• 1:58:22
  Speaker 3: Occult Rejects. Until the next one, everybody be well.