Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Alleged Steroid-Popping ex-Marine Wanted for Young Mom's Murder Captured Abroad

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Alleged Steroid-Popping ex-Marine Wanted for Young Mom's Murder Captured Abroad · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece got him. I'm talking about
0:16
Speaker 1: a guy that does not deserve to be called a
0:19
Speaker 1: US marine, but he insists on saying that none other
0:23
Speaker 1: than r J. McLeod, a killer who has dragged law
0:30
Speaker 1: enforcement halfway around the world to find him. I Nancy Grace,
0:37
Speaker 1: this is Crime Stories, Thank you for being with us
0:39
Speaker 1: here at Fox Nation and Serious X one eleven. But
0:43
Speaker 1: more important than that POC technical legal term r J.
0:48
Speaker 1: McLeod is someone else, her name Crystal Mitchell. Take a
0:56
Speaker 1: listen to this. Crystal was a visitor in San Diego.
0:59
Speaker 1: She loved San Diego and she came here frequently from Phoenix.
1:03
Speaker 1: And her last word about San Diego was, Mom, I'm
1:09
Speaker 1: going to move there. She didn't know she was going
1:11
Speaker 1: to be killed here, and so I have so many
1:16
Speaker 1: memories of her coming to San Diego. I have a
1:18
Speaker 1: lot of things hanging in my house and cuts and
1:20
Speaker 1: stuff because she loves Santigo. She was a lovely mother.
1:24
Speaker 1: She was beautiful even side out, she was beautiful. And
1:28
Speaker 1: she was a single mom, unsuspecting of this man who
1:33
Speaker 1: she was a property manager. And this man came by
1:36
Speaker 1: to get an apartment and that's how they mapped, he
1:40
Speaker 1: came across as a doting dad and that's one thing
1:43
Speaker 1: she said was he loves his son. He absolutely loves
1:47
Speaker 1: his son. And that was a quality that every single
1:50
Speaker 1: mom out there will look for, is a man who
1:52
Speaker 1: loves his child. You are hearing the voice of mother
1:57
Speaker 1: and hero Josephine Wentzel, who has dedicated the last years
2:06
Speaker 1: she's been alive on this earth to finding her daughter,
2:11
Speaker 1: Crystal's killer. R Jake McConnell. Just thinking about that for
2:15
Speaker 1: a moment. What if you were tasked with finding a killer, Well,
2:20
Speaker 1: where do you start? What do you do? And a
2:23
Speaker 1: killer who has traveled around the world and knows how
2:28
Speaker 1: to elude police? I mean and see Grace. This is
2:31
Speaker 1: crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at
2:34
Speaker 1: Fox Nation. In series eleven. R J. McLeod a man
2:39
Speaker 1: we have all searched for. He has been at the
2:41
Speaker 1: top of the FBI most wanted, a cold blooded killer,
2:46
Speaker 1: but it took one of his victim's mother to bring
2:51
Speaker 1: him to justice. And this is the story of r. J.
2:56
Speaker 1: McCleod going down thanks to Crystal's mother, Josephine, And what
3:03
Speaker 1: a story it is. I want you to take a
3:07
Speaker 1: listen now to our friends at KUSI. Around one pm
3:11
Speaker 1: on June tenth, twenty sixteen, when San Diego Police Department
3:16
Speaker 1: receives a nine one one call, they arrived to the
3:20
Speaker 1: apartment to find the lifeless body of Crystal Mitchell. The
3:26
Speaker 1: coroner determines that she died by strangulation and that this
3:32
Speaker 1: was a homicide. This strangulation was so violent that there
3:38
Speaker 1: were three separate fractures to her voice box and nine
3:43
Speaker 1: one one call brought police to an apartment in Allied Garden,
3:47
Speaker 1: San Diego, where Crystal's body was found. There were clear
3:52
Speaker 1: signs of a struggle and Crystal had numerous injuries. There
3:58
Speaker 1: was blunt force strung Mama, including to her face and
4:02
Speaker 1: torso McLeod had brutally strangled Crystal to death, choking the
4:10
Speaker 1: very life out of her. There were multiple fractures to
4:14
Speaker 1: her neck area. Joining me a renowned chief medical examiner,
4:20
Speaker 1: doctor Kindall Crowns, the chief medical Examiner of Tarrant County,
4:23
Speaker 1: that's Fort Worth. He is also lecturing University Texas Austin
4:27
Speaker 1: and Texas Christian University Med School. Doctor Crowns, thank you
4:31
Speaker 1: for being with us. What does that tell you? The
4:34
Speaker 1: cod cause of death is manual strangulation versus, for instance,
4:39
Speaker 1: a ligature strangulation or asphyxiation of some other type. But
4:44
Speaker 1: three separate fractures to Crystal's voice box number one, What
4:49
Speaker 1: is a voice box? Sure, that's not the medical term.
4:52
Speaker 1: So the voice box is the area where your vocal
4:55
Speaker 1: corrigal sense is made up by your ty cartilage. And
5:01
Speaker 1: cyrod carlage is like this kind of large shield of
5:05
Speaker 1: carlag and a structure that sits over the vocal court
5:08
Speaker 1: of regions. And what I'm hearing with that is because
5:11
Speaker 1: she is a young woman, usually there's the cyrod carnolage
5:17
Speaker 1: hasn't become bony yet or ossified, so it's very pliable
5:21
Speaker 1: in a young woman, and that usually doesn't fracture in
5:23
Speaker 1: a annual strangulation. So to me, that sounds like an
5:28
Speaker 1: incredible amount of force is being put on her neck
5:31
Speaker 1: by the perpetrator's hands. So he's obviously got a very
5:36
Speaker 1: good grip strength and he put a lot of force
5:39
Speaker 1: into that to cause that much damage. Interesting to doctor
5:42
Speaker 1: Michael the clinical forensic psychologist, former chief of the US
5:46
Speaker 1: Marshal Service Behavioral Analysis Unit. You can find him at
5:51
Speaker 1: Michael PhD dot com. Doctor Burt, thank you for being
5:54
Speaker 1: with us. What does it tell you about R. J.
5:57
Speaker 1: McCleod that he not only stringle her, but striangled her
6:02
Speaker 1: so forcefully and so violently to cause three fractures in
6:06
Speaker 1: Crystal's voice box. Well, Nancy, you know, some of these
6:10
Speaker 1: perpetrators are gonna cause that much damage because they're out
6:14
Speaker 1: of control, or because this is sort of a heat
6:16
Speaker 1: of passion kind of a thing. In McLeod's case, this
6:20
Speaker 1: is a very cold and calculating man. He's he's had
6:25
Speaker 1: the discipline instilled from the US Marine Corps. He knows
6:30
Speaker 1: what he's doing, and he's committed acts of violence against
6:34
Speaker 1: vulnerable people in his past. So this man is committing
6:40
Speaker 1: this type of damage, in this extent of this damage
6:44
Speaker 1: because he enjoys it. A cloud is a sadist, He
6:48
Speaker 1: is somewhat psychopathic. He doesn't have a you know, a
6:53
Speaker 1: great degree of empathy for other people, and he enjoyed
6:59
Speaker 1: the power and the rush that he got from hurting
7:03
Speaker 1: other people. Yeah, I've heard about people like that. I
7:08
Speaker 1: think I've encountered defendants like that that enjoy the act
7:13
Speaker 1: of inflicting pain on others. As you said, sadist so
7:18
Speaker 1: much that they do it over and over again, and
7:20
Speaker 1: that is exactly what r J. McLeod did. This was
7:24
Speaker 1: by far not his first female victim. He prayed on
7:29
Speaker 1: people that were weaker and less cunning than himself over
7:35
Speaker 1: and over and over, culminating in the murder of Crystal.
7:40
Speaker 1: But when you say doctor Roy out of control, I'm
7:44
Speaker 1: not so sure that I think he was out of
7:46
Speaker 1: control as much as enjoying the sensation of strangling her dead,
7:52
Speaker 1: seeing her life leave her body, because I believe that
7:58
Speaker 1: there was another pole, possibly in the apartment where they
8:03
Speaker 1: were at the time, and they didn't hear a thing. Guys,
8:07
Speaker 1: take a listen to our cut too. This is Ginger
8:09
Speaker 1: Jeffrey's KUSI. We believe that they came into San Diego
8:12
Speaker 1: that night. They had spent some time socializing and catching
8:15
Speaker 1: up with RJ's friends. Then after the hosts had gone
8:19
Speaker 1: to bed, they went out to a local bar, had
8:21
Speaker 1: a couple more drinks to enjoy their stay in San Diego.
8:24
Speaker 1: When they returned back to the condominium, we believed shortly
8:28
Speaker 1: after that there's some kind of altercation between Crystal and RJ.
8:31
Speaker 1: And that's when it killed her and more. When we
8:34
Speaker 1: got into the scene, crystals body was found on the
8:37
Speaker 1: bed in the guest room at a kind of minium
8:39
Speaker 1: where they've been staying with some friends of RJS. There
8:43
Speaker 1: were some blood in the scene and some items of
8:46
Speaker 1: furniture they've been moved around. It's pretty obvious there was
8:49
Speaker 1: some kind of struggle in the room. McLeod then took
8:52
Speaker 1: Crystal's car to the San Diego airport, rented a different
8:56
Speaker 1: car and drove into Mexico. Officials issue a warrant for
9:01
Speaker 1: his arrest. The charge murder. Oh yeah, this guy, there's
9:06
Speaker 1: no way he's going to be able to claim in
9:08
Speaker 1: voluntary intoxication. Let me remind everyone, and isn't this true?
9:13
Speaker 1: James shell Nutt twenty seven years Metro major case as
9:17
Speaker 1: a detective, former SWAT, now a lawyer at the shell
9:19
Speaker 1: Nutt Law Firm. Voluntary use of drugs or alcohol is
9:25
Speaker 1: never a defense under the law unless you're a commenttose.
9:29
Speaker 1: If you're commentose, you can't strangle anybody. But the fact
9:33
Speaker 1: that he may have been somewhat intoxicated or at least
9:36
Speaker 1: under the influence, that's not going to help him at all. No,
9:40
Speaker 1: it's not gonna help him at all. You can't just
9:41
Speaker 1: go get yourself drunk and then have a free pass
9:45
Speaker 1: to attack people, to murder people, to do whatever you
9:48
Speaker 1: want to do. It's not legally a defense and it's
9:51
Speaker 1: not going to fly in front of a jury. Oh no,
9:54
Speaker 1: no way. In fact, it makes me dislike him even
9:56
Speaker 1: more if that can even be in matter. So he's
10:01
Speaker 1: out drunk, acting the fool, and he's got this gorgeous
10:05
Speaker 1: young date with him, and I don't quite understand how
10:09
Speaker 1: a night out turns deadly. I don't know how that flip.
10:12
Speaker 1: But when you're r. J. McLeod, it doesn't take much
10:16
Speaker 1: to flick your switch time stories with Nancy Grace. Guys. Immediately,
10:40
Speaker 1: this guy goes on the run, which will be lie
10:43
Speaker 1: any claim of mental defect, temporary insanity, deluded under intoxication.
10:52
Speaker 1: No listen, listen to how well thought out his escape
10:57
Speaker 1: plan was. He goes on the run. Take a listen
11:00
Speaker 1: to ginger Jeffries described as five foot eleven weighing two
11:06
Speaker 1: hundred and twenty five to two hundred and forty five pounds.
11:10
Speaker 1: Raymond McLeod, a former marine, was dating Crystal Mitchell on
11:15
Speaker 1: June tenth, twenty sixteen, San Diego police found the victim
11:19
Speaker 1: not breathing at an apartment complex in Allied Gardens. She
11:24
Speaker 1: was pronounced dead at the scene by medics. He's believed
11:27
Speaker 1: to be on the run in Central America or Mexico.
11:31
Speaker 1: His last reported location was in Guatemala about a year ago,
11:36
Speaker 1: but he has also been spotted in Belize and in Mexico.
11:40
Speaker 1: McLeod has been able to hide until now, but we're
11:44
Speaker 1: not going to let this coward run from justice and
11:48
Speaker 1: get away with murder. Make no mistake, We are on
11:52
Speaker 1: a hunt for justice and we need your help now.
11:55
Speaker 1: Apparently this guy was a wolf in sheep's clothing, although
12:02
Speaker 1: I always thought he looked like he was jacked up
12:04
Speaker 1: on steroids. That said, there's no way Crystal could have
12:11
Speaker 1: known what she was dealing with. Take a listen to
12:14
Speaker 1: Ginger Jeffries. When the crime happened, McLeod was still married
12:18
Speaker 1: to his third wife. However, the couple was estranged after
12:22
Speaker 1: a domestic violence incident in Riverside County in April of
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Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, that's just two months before the murder. McLeod
12:32
Speaker 1: was on bond when he moved to Scottsdale and met
12:35
Speaker 1: Crystal They had only been dating a matter of weeks,
12:39
Speaker 1: and her mom tells me her friends did not approve
12:43
Speaker 1: her friend, didn't like him at all when she met him.
12:46
Speaker 1: McLeod had prior violence against two of his previous wives.
12:52
Speaker 1: He had attending twenty sixteen Blanky case in Riverside for
12:59
Speaker 1: strangling one of his wifes. A roommate interrupted the woman
13:05
Speaker 1: being strangled. That set the scene for what would be
13:09
Speaker 1: a deadly trip to San Diego, California. You know, I
13:13
Speaker 1: don't get it how the prosecutor can say that with
13:19
Speaker 1: a straight face, because he should have been prosecuted for
13:22
Speaker 1: strangling the last wife. But no, nothing happened, and he's
13:28
Speaker 1: out walking free, and bam he runs into Crystal, totally unsuspecting.
13:35
Speaker 1: Joining me right now is a special guest, the woman
13:39
Speaker 1: along with the US Marshal Service, who's also joining us,
13:42
Speaker 1: The woman who has led the crusade to find killer R.
13:47
Speaker 1: Jake McLeod. No matter where it took her, no matter
13:51
Speaker 1: how long and how hard she had to look, no
13:54
Speaker 1: matter how many times she had to go on air
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Speaker 1: and beg for help, no matter what she had to do,
14:00
Speaker 1: she never quit with us. Is Crystel's mother, Josephine wants Josephine,
14:05
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us, thank you for bringing
14:08
Speaker 1: me back at such a special occasion. It's kind of
14:12
Speaker 1: hard listening to all the details again, which brings a
14:17
Speaker 1: lot of anger and makes it even more of a
14:22
Speaker 1: celebratory thing that I've done, catching him and getting him
14:26
Speaker 1: off the street and putting him in prison so he
14:28
Speaker 1: doesn't hurt somebody else. I'd like to see him try
14:32
Speaker 1: to do that somebody in prison. You know, every picture
14:35
Speaker 1: Josephine that I've ever seen of him, he looks like
14:42
Speaker 1: a poser. You know. I think of my husband or
14:46
Speaker 1: my father as being the perfect man, unassuming, smart, active, physical,
14:58
Speaker 1: in great shape, but not a show off. This guy,
15:02
Speaker 1: every time I see him, he's got a gym behind him,
15:06
Speaker 1: He's got on a torn out tank top, bulging his
15:10
Speaker 1: arm muscles with like a fake tan, with a cigar
15:16
Speaker 1: or with a gun, somehow propping up his toxic masculinity.
15:22
Speaker 1: It's like he has so much to prove. I don't
15:26
Speaker 1: get it. But what did she think about him? How
15:30
Speaker 1: did someone like Crystal get tangled up with this poc
15:35
Speaker 1: other men? She came out of a relationship and she's
15:39
Speaker 1: been out of a relationship for about five months and
15:43
Speaker 1: the guy was pursuing her. And you know, here comes
15:47
Speaker 1: this big marine and you know, crystal sister was a marine,
15:51
Speaker 1: and so I don't know that I would call him big.
15:53
Speaker 1: It's hopped up on steroids. Those muscles aren't real. No,
15:57
Speaker 1: r well big? What is that? Hold on? What about that?
16:00
Speaker 1: Doctor Kendall Crowns. Have you seen this guy? I mean,
16:04
Speaker 1: this guy is what, um what five to seven maybe?
16:08
Speaker 1: And he is just about five to seven wide across
16:11
Speaker 1: the chest with all of his fake muscles, fake muscles,
16:15
Speaker 1: fake ten, fake cover story, fake everything. He was even
16:19
Speaker 1: still married when he met Crystal. What does steroids do
16:22
Speaker 1: to you? And I am not going down the garden path.
16:26
Speaker 1: The rabbit hole of steroids made me do it? That
16:30
Speaker 1: ain't happening. That's the same thing as drugs and alcohol.
16:33
Speaker 1: You take steroids, you go crazy and kill somebody that's
16:36
Speaker 1: on you. The steroids didn't do it. But how does
16:39
Speaker 1: that work, doctor Kendall Crowns. How does he get on
16:42
Speaker 1: his fake muscles? Well, the steroids help he put on
16:45
Speaker 1: muscle mass. So if he gets bigger muscles quicker from
16:49
Speaker 1: using a steroids because of the effectless steroids muscles at
16:55
Speaker 1: his neck. He looks like an ox, like I'm about
16:58
Speaker 1: to put a plow on him. How does it work?
17:02
Speaker 1: How does that work? Crowns like? It said that it
17:06
Speaker 1: increases your ability to put it on muscle mask the
17:09
Speaker 1: exact effects the steroids have. I'm a muscleture. I can't
17:13
Speaker 1: really tell you right off him, but I know it
17:15
Speaker 1: accentuates the ability to put on muncles. So the more
17:19
Speaker 1: he lifts, the more to the clicker he's going to
17:21
Speaker 1: put it on. Unlike a person who's not using steroids,
17:24
Speaker 1: where it could take years to develop muscle masks, he
17:28
Speaker 1: can do it in a matter of months. So on
17:30
Speaker 1: the downside, he's also getting liver injury and his testicles
17:34
Speaker 1: are shrinking, and he's also going to have matta wait
17:38
Speaker 1: a minute, right there. I do not care about his
17:40
Speaker 1: liver damage. But that said, Uh, you know, Josephine Wentzel,
17:46
Speaker 1: your Crystal's mother, did you ever see this guy before
17:49
Speaker 1: she started going out with him? Never? Because I'm telling you,
17:52
Speaker 1: if I caught my husband, David Lanche and the gym
17:55
Speaker 1: this much, I say, no, you got that much time
17:58
Speaker 1: for Jim Deane and him three four hours a day?
18:01
Speaker 1: You go to work. You can go work, makes some
18:03
Speaker 1: money for this child, for the children's college. One. Why
18:06
Speaker 1: is a grown man in the gym five six seven
18:10
Speaker 1: hours a day to where he looks like that. If
18:14
Speaker 1: he has that much time on his hand, he can
18:16
Speaker 1: be cutting your grass. He does not need to be
18:19
Speaker 1: in there building up his neck muscles. Okay, so you
18:22
Speaker 1: didn't see him before she started dating him, Josephine, I
18:25
Speaker 1: did not. This was not a you know, Nancy, this
18:28
Speaker 1: I mean everybody's reporting boyfriend and girlfriend. It was dating.
18:32
Speaker 1: They were dating. It wasn't an intimate boyfriend and girlfriend.
18:35
Speaker 1: She already knew him. She was the apartment complex manager.
18:39
Speaker 1: He went there to apply for at least on an
18:42
Speaker 1: apartment while he's out on bond for trying to kill
18:46
Speaker 1: his a strange wife. Josephine, I don't think that any
18:50
Speaker 1: of the men on our panel are going to understand this. Sorry, man,
18:54
Speaker 1: I know you claimed to be just as smart as women. Josephine,
18:57
Speaker 1: if you've seen this picture of him with a cigar,
18:59
Speaker 1: I've seen a picture of the camp. Yes, I have,
19:02
Speaker 1: and those are the pictures I have gotten from. He's
19:05
Speaker 1: got a gun in his left hand and he's having
19:08
Speaker 1: like a big fat Cuban cigarless like maybe a one Julietta.
19:15
Speaker 1: It's just I want to just tear his little head off.
19:19
Speaker 1: What is it about that picture that's so irritating? If
19:23
Speaker 1: they arrogance? Yeah, that's it. You said it all in
19:27
Speaker 1: one word. You also said how he managed to woo
19:33
Speaker 1: Crystal with her having no idea who he really is.
19:39
Speaker 1: She was on apartment complex manager, correct, Yes, that's correct,
19:44
Speaker 1: and he put in an application to live there, right,
19:48
Speaker 1: yes he did. And now we're on the application did
19:51
Speaker 1: it say I'm on my third marriage and oh yeah,
19:53
Speaker 1: I just strangled her a couple of weeks ago. Why
19:56
Speaker 1: how could that not pop up on Crystal radar since
20:00
Speaker 1: she was the one looking at the applications? Because apartment
20:04
Speaker 1: apartment complexes only look for felons for somebody that's been tried,
20:10
Speaker 1: because they should. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm not showing anything
20:13
Speaker 1: about arrest. What about that shell not twenty seven years
20:16
Speaker 1: metro major case detective arrest. Don't show up? There's about
20:21
Speaker 1: to be a conviction. Oh yeah, I wouldn't want to
20:23
Speaker 1: hurt R. J. McCloud's feelings by what a wrongful arrest
20:28
Speaker 1: showing up on his rap sheet and now crystals. Did
20:31
Speaker 1: you think she would have gone out with him if
20:33
Speaker 1: she had seen domestic assack? Arrest? On that right, here's
20:38
Speaker 1: luck is lucky that he's even walking the streets. He
20:41
Speaker 1: should have been convicted, he should have been put in prison,
20:44
Speaker 1: and he should have been serving time for strangling and
20:47
Speaker 1: nearly killing. But this other lay, it is just this
20:50
Speaker 1: insanity that this guy sell up the street. No officiive
20:53
Speaker 1: anybody on the panel. And multiple marriages, I'm not knocking it.
20:56
Speaker 1: I'm not the church lady. I really don't care. But
21:00
Speaker 1: first marriage, you think, okay, that was a starter marriage. Okay,
21:03
Speaker 1: second marriage is still up in the air. You don't
21:06
Speaker 1: really know what happened. How do I know that you
21:09
Speaker 1: didn't get married young and you didn't realize what you
21:12
Speaker 1: were doing. But when you makes me think of Drew Peterson, Well,
21:15
Speaker 1: you're getting on your fourth, fifth, sixth wife. Except Elizabeth Taylor,
21:20
Speaker 1: God rest her soul, because none that was her fault.
21:24
Speaker 1: When you start getting on, it starts to be you're
21:27
Speaker 1: the only common denominator in all that, So it's your fault.
21:32
Speaker 1: These women were not connecting the dots of all of
21:38
Speaker 1: his relationships, of all of his domestic assaults. In fact,
21:42
Speaker 1: he was quite a con man, a smooth operator. They
21:46
Speaker 1: had no reason to suspect him. Take a listen to
21:50
Speaker 1: our friend Josephine Wentzel and our cut nine. Everything was
21:54
Speaker 1: right about him. He was stable, he was a US Marine.
21:57
Speaker 1: Crystal's sister was a US Marine. There was nothing to
22:01
Speaker 1: alert her that he was a terrible person. And so
22:06
Speaker 1: when she came out here, and I remember that night
22:10
Speaker 1: when I got that phone call, I mean, this is
22:12
Speaker 1: you know. I've been on the side where I had
22:14
Speaker 1: to give the message to Pearance sometimes I didn't want
22:18
Speaker 1: to get the message that their child has been murdered.
22:21
Speaker 1: And I'm on this side, and I've received that message
22:24
Speaker 1: that night. Josephine, Crystal's mother, who never gave up. She
22:31
Speaker 1: was like a hound from hell on this guy, about
22:34
Speaker 1: three inches up his tailpipe at all times, trying to
22:39
Speaker 1: bring her daughter's killer to justice. Joseph Ayne, we have
22:44
Speaker 1: talked about this once before, but for those just joining us,
22:47
Speaker 1: what happened when you realize something had gone horribly wrong
22:51
Speaker 1: with Crystal. I tried to reach her. She wasn't responding
22:56
Speaker 1: to me. I knew and my gut something was wrong.
22:59
Speaker 1: With her, because that wasn't her to just ignore me,
23:04
Speaker 1: especially because I had her children. So my husband had
23:07
Speaker 1: textuents that you have to call your mother right now.
23:11
Speaker 1: And I found out later from Detective Dobs that when
23:14
Speaker 1: they had found her, her phone was there and it
23:17
Speaker 1: kept going off and they kept seeing her parents, and
23:20
Speaker 1: so he said, you know, at some point, he says,
23:23
Speaker 1: let's get ahold of the parents right away. They're trying
23:25
Speaker 1: to reach her and they're panicking. And then you got
23:27
Speaker 1: the call. Yes, I got the call. What happened. Detective
23:31
Speaker 1: Dobs had called and said that she was in a
23:34
Speaker 1: mark And I don't remember all the details. I just
23:40
Speaker 1: remember covering my ears and dropping to the floor and
23:43
Speaker 1: just my having my heart ripped out. My soul was
23:49
Speaker 1: stabbed so deep, and it was the most horrible feeling
23:53
Speaker 1: in the whole entire world. Most people cannot relate to
23:56
Speaker 1: the feeling because Nancy, it's a parents' worst and you
24:00
Speaker 1: don't go there. Nobody wants to go there. I had
24:03
Speaker 1: to go there. I had no choice. He put me there,
24:06
Speaker 1: He put my whole entire family there. He put my husband,
24:09
Speaker 1: Crystal's children there, he put my son, my daughters. He
24:14
Speaker 1: really did a number in our family, Jessa Fain, You
24:18
Speaker 1: stated that in the past it had been you making
24:22
Speaker 1: me the call to parents. What did you mean by that,
24:26
Speaker 1: to tell them about their loved one being dead? Why you?
24:29
Speaker 1: When I was a police officer, and I remember one
24:32
Speaker 1: case specifically where I went to a door and the
24:36
Speaker 1: mom collapsed and she started freaking out because she's all
24:38
Speaker 1: a police card. And I lied to her and I said,
24:41
Speaker 1: just go to the hospital. Are they still alive? Just
24:45
Speaker 1: go to the hospital. I didn't want to say. I
24:47
Speaker 1: was just so afraid of the mom actually having a
24:51
Speaker 1: heart attack on me. Oh, Joseph saying, I gotta tell him.
24:55
Speaker 1: By the time I got cases, the family already knew
24:59
Speaker 1: that son or the daughter, or the mom or the
25:02
Speaker 1: dad had been murdered. But even then, when I would
25:06
Speaker 1: go to talk to them to work up the case
25:09
Speaker 1: for trial, so I could understand every nuance of the
25:12
Speaker 1: victim and their family and their personality and what happened,
25:16
Speaker 1: I remember it like it was yesterday, because it's so
25:19
Speaker 1: painful for them to talk about it and relive, and
25:22
Speaker 1: it could trigger nightmares, and it all just comes right
25:27
Speaker 1: back when you have to talk about it. Sometimes as
25:29
Speaker 1: a matter of fact. Guys, I want you to hear
25:31
Speaker 1: what Josephine has said before. Listen. The children were staying
25:36
Speaker 1: with us in vacation when that happened, and that morning
25:40
Speaker 1: I woke up and I knew there was something wrong.
25:42
Speaker 1: I felt there was something wrong, and I wasn't sure
25:45
Speaker 1: what it was. And when we reached out and tried
25:48
Speaker 1: to speak with her, she never responded, and then it
25:51
Speaker 1: was that call that night. But I'm just appealing to
25:54
Speaker 1: the public. I mean, we have America's best behind me.
25:57
Speaker 1: We have one of the greatest teams there is. But
26:00
Speaker 1: sometimes Bess is not good enough. Sometimes we just need more.
26:04
Speaker 1: And I'm appealing to the public help us bring peace.
26:08
Speaker 1: As you see, this is the children that have to
26:11
Speaker 1: sleep at night, and I just want to bring peace.
26:14
Speaker 1: I know that finding him is not going to bring
26:18
Speaker 1: my daughter back, but it's going to save the life
26:21
Speaker 1: of your daughter, your granddaughter, your mother. This shouldn't happen.
26:27
Speaker 1: There's so many victims to murder, and it continues on.
26:30
Speaker 1: It doesn't end. This case may close, but what has
26:34
Speaker 1: happened to our family would never close. The pain of
26:38
Speaker 1: knowing he slipped through the fingers of law enforcement and
26:41
Speaker 1: was somewhere in the world, joseph Ain had quit, had
26:47
Speaker 1: left her job after many years as police officer. She
26:51
Speaker 1: comes back and dedicates her life to bring this guy
26:56
Speaker 1: in and listen to this point that she makes. Listen,
27:01
Speaker 1: this man is brutal. I've done some background checks on him.
27:04
Speaker 1: He started out with so many domestic violence. Why domestic
27:09
Speaker 1: violences a misdemeanor in Arizona, I don't know, but it is.
27:12
Speaker 1: And this was an awful thing that happened. If he
27:16
Speaker 1: was processed properly, probably he wouldn't be out there. Josephine,
27:21
Speaker 1: how does it strike you that because of a processing error,
27:28
Speaker 1: there was no warrant on him and he was free
27:31
Speaker 1: to meet Crystal and then murder her. Anger, total anger.
27:35
Speaker 1: And you know, Nancy, I haven't addressed that issue yet.
27:39
Speaker 1: Now that he's behind in bars, I intend to address
27:43
Speaker 1: that issue. Why are the police officers, Nancy, here's a question.
27:48
Speaker 1: Why are police officers being prosecuted for murder in the
27:52
Speaker 1: line of duty? And yet these these lawyers, these bondsmen,
27:57
Speaker 1: these judges get away with allowing these people to continue
28:01
Speaker 1: to murder. If they took at least a little bit
28:04
Speaker 1: of time to look into his background. Just a little,
28:08
Speaker 1: they would have realized that he was not a good
28:11
Speaker 1: candidate to be released. Gone out are five thousand dollars
28:15
Speaker 1: cash because it's a fifty thousand dollars bond. Instead, he
28:19
Speaker 1: is out on the run. Take a listen to Summer
28:23
Speaker 1: Stephen San Diego DIA's office. McLeod is a former marine
28:27
Speaker 1: who may have access to weapons. He's thirty four years old,
28:31
Speaker 1: five foot eleven inches tall, and has multiple very recognizable
28:36
Speaker 1: tattoos on his arms and chest and body. He goes
28:41
Speaker 1: by the nicknames RJ, but maybe using the name Matt
28:45
Speaker 1: or Matteo to attempt to hide his identity. It's very
28:49
Speaker 1: likely he's tried to change his appearance, grown a beard,
28:54
Speaker 1: he may have put on weight. Joining me right now,
28:57
Speaker 1: Special guest, Frankie Sanchez, Chief Inspector US Marshall's Task Force
29:01
Speaker 1: out of LA Chief Inspector Sanchez, thank you for being
29:04
Speaker 1: with us so at the get go. We hear word
29:09
Speaker 1: that he has been in Belize that he is beyond belize.
29:15
Speaker 1: I want you to take a listen, Frankie Sanchez to
29:18
Speaker 1: our cut twenty. You know this guy Stave German, US
29:21
Speaker 1: Marshal Service, our trail that we have followed him. So far,
29:25
Speaker 1: we've confirmed that he left San Diego and went into Mexico,
29:29
Speaker 1: and then we've also confirmed that he was in Belize.
29:32
Speaker 1: That tip actually came in anonymously from a female who
29:36
Speaker 1: met him dancing at a nightclub, got kind of a
29:38
Speaker 1: creepy feeling about him and probably saved her own life
29:42
Speaker 1: by not going with him. That is the type of
29:45
Speaker 1: monster that we're dealing with here. He will repeat this
29:48
Speaker 1: action if he hasn't already. Time stories with Nancy Grace.
30:06
Speaker 1: How many times has a creepy feeling saved somebody's life?
30:11
Speaker 1: And it saved that woman the night she met R. J.
30:14
Speaker 1: McLeod in a bar. Back to Chief Inspector of the
30:18
Speaker 1: US Marshal's Task Force, Frankie Sanchez again, it's a real
30:22
Speaker 1: honor to have you on, Frankie. Little known fact. My
30:27
Speaker 1: first investigator that I worked with very very closely at
30:32
Speaker 1: the District Attorney's office, Matt McPherson. I went on to
30:38
Speaker 1: become the US Marshal for the Northern District of Georgia,
30:42
Speaker 1: and I got to know a lot of the US
30:44
Speaker 1: Marshals that way. Robert McMichael's and I just have the
30:48
Speaker 1: most respect for you guys. You know, when you are
30:52
Speaker 1: on the list of the US Marshal Europe the creek
30:56
Speaker 1: without a paddle. So what do you do? You get
31:00
Speaker 1: word that he's in Mexico, he's in the laze, how
31:04
Speaker 1: do you go about finding him? You know, Nancy, you
31:08
Speaker 1: you can't let the border stop you. M It's just
31:11
Speaker 1: it's one of those things, one of those cases that
31:13
Speaker 1: you just chase it until you get to the end.
31:17
Speaker 1: Thank God, we have good relationships with agencies and other countries.
31:21
Speaker 1: We're very fortunate our agency is to be able to
31:24
Speaker 1: have those partnerships with these outside agencies in other countries.
31:27
Speaker 1: So where did the trail lead the US Marshals? So
31:31
Speaker 1: initially McLeod had fled into Mexico. How did he get
31:34
Speaker 1: to Mexico? Just drive across the border? Correct? Yes, he
31:37
Speaker 1: drove across the border. How does that happen when he's
31:40
Speaker 1: got this huge string of domestic violence and then he
31:43
Speaker 1: strangled somebody dad his second triangulation victim. How do you
31:47
Speaker 1: just hop in your car and drive across the border
31:49
Speaker 1: and nobody checks. I couldn't tell you, Nancy, I couldn't
31:52
Speaker 1: tell you. How do you think they do it? I mean,
31:54
Speaker 1: I think I think the stopbound traffic going into Mexico.
31:57
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously everybody is not id going into Mexico
32:00
Speaker 1: and coming into the United States obviously different. Again, I'm
32:03
Speaker 1: not a customers Border inspection officer, but I'm pretty sure
32:07
Speaker 1: that's how it works. So from Mexico, where do you
32:10
Speaker 1: think he went? So from Mexico he went into Beliefe.
32:13
Speaker 1: That's when the marshals were That's when the marshals became
32:16
Speaker 1: involved in the case. He was sometime in December of
32:18
Speaker 1: twenty and sixteen when we were asked to assist in
32:22
Speaker 1: the in the location capture of Raymond McCloud. So you
32:26
Speaker 1: get in on the act after he is already left
32:29
Speaker 1: Mexico and he is in Belize. You know, there's not
32:32
Speaker 1: a lot of places you can hide in Belize. It's
32:34
Speaker 1: not that big. It's like a rock jutting out of
32:37
Speaker 1: the ocean. How can you hide in Belize? You know,
32:40
Speaker 1: that's that's a great question. I actually was down there
32:42
Speaker 1: physically working with DSS and local authorities running down some
32:47
Speaker 1: of the tips, and I was blown away with how
32:49
Speaker 1: small the country is. So I don't know he made
32:53
Speaker 1: his way into the expat areas, and at that time,
32:56
Speaker 1: you know, nobody knew who he was. Josephine. You know,
33:00
Speaker 1: once we had found out Hen down there at that
33:01
Speaker 1: point that from Joseph he had got on boarding and
33:04
Speaker 1: get these social media blasts. But she had did Facebook,
33:08
Speaker 1: and that's when the ties started to flow in way
33:10
Speaker 1: to go, Josephine, tell me about your Facebook blasts. Well,
33:13
Speaker 1: I decided it was time for me to get involved,
33:16
Speaker 1: and I went online. I tried to figure out how
33:19
Speaker 1: I could get the word out, because you can be
33:20
Speaker 1: on the top fifteen, top ten, top one, number one
33:24
Speaker 1: wanted in the world, but if nobody knows, it's useless.
33:28
Speaker 1: So I realized I needed to put his face out there.
33:31
Speaker 1: Now that you know he became top fifteen, it was
33:34
Speaker 1: my work to get the word out, and boy it
33:36
Speaker 1: is you get the word out. And back to Belize.
33:39
Speaker 1: I mean, Frankie, the only thing I can remember. Dived
33:42
Speaker 1: all before I had the twins, all over all over
33:45
Speaker 1: the world, and Belize was just a spot to dive,
33:49
Speaker 1: and there wasn't a whole lot else in Malaise. I
33:53
Speaker 1: remember there were goats walking up the street. And when
33:57
Speaker 1: I found out that he had been in Blaise. I thought, Wow,
34:00
Speaker 1: they couldn't find him in Belize. That's like saying, hey,
34:03
Speaker 1: I couldn't find him in the backyard. So how did
34:07
Speaker 1: he elude law enforcement? Did he leave Belize very quickly?
34:11
Speaker 1: I mean, how did he lure in his victims? You know,
34:13
Speaker 1: the guy was smooth, he was slick. He knew what
34:15
Speaker 1: he was doing. I can't tell you exactly how he
34:19
Speaker 1: evaded law enforcement down there, but you know I can
34:21
Speaker 1: tell you he was in the expat areas. I mean,
34:23
Speaker 1: he hung out a lot in the northern part of
34:26
Speaker 1: but eventually made his way down at the southern part
34:28
Speaker 1: of Belize. Well, here's the good news. Take a listen
34:30
Speaker 1: to our friends at KUSI. We do have some breaking
34:34
Speaker 1: news to bring you right now. Raymond R. J. McLeod,
34:37
Speaker 1: one of the US Marshall's Top fifteen most wanted fugitives,
34:42
Speaker 1: is now in custody in Al Salvador. McLeod was charged
34:45
Speaker 1: with a murder of thirty year old Crystal Mitchell on
34:48
Speaker 1: June tenth of twenty sixteen. Detectives from the San Diego
34:52
Speaker 1: Police Department say there were signs of a struggle and
34:55
Speaker 1: determined Mitchell was last seen alive with her boyfriend Ryan McLeod.
35:00
Speaker 1: On Monday, August twenty ninth, US Marshalls accompanied a team
35:04
Speaker 1: of El Salvadorian police to the town of San Sanato
35:07
Speaker 1: and conducted surveillance on the school and questioned. They determined
35:10
Speaker 1: the individual inside the school was, in fact, mister McLeod,
35:14
Speaker 1: going by the name of Jack Donovan. I will be
35:17
Speaker 1: satisfied when he is convicted for brutally murdering my daughter
35:23
Speaker 1: and that he is sentenced to life in prison. How
35:27
Speaker 1: was he hiding out? Take those to our friends at
35:31
Speaker 1: CBS eight. I remember he told me he's from Canada. Also,
35:35
Speaker 1: his name was Jack, just Jack. Josuay Castro took this
35:40
Speaker 1: photo of his English teacher in San sanat El Salvador,
35:45
Speaker 1: at a school called Direct English, where he studied English
35:50
Speaker 1: for more than two years between two seventeen and twenty nineteen.
35:55
Speaker 1: Little did he know his teacher was a fugitive Raymond
35:59
Speaker 1: mc cloud wanted for murder too. Franky Sanchez chiefs back
36:03
Speaker 1: to US Marshal's task force. How did you catch him
36:06
Speaker 1: all the way in El Salvador and why would he
36:09
Speaker 1: choose El Salvador. Do you think I couldn't tell you?
36:11
Speaker 1: Why he chose El Salvador. Um. I think I think
36:14
Speaker 1: the further stout he got, the less noticeable he would be.
36:17
Speaker 1: People would not maybe not know his story, who he was,
36:20
Speaker 1: that he was wanted. Um, but I can tell you that,
36:23
Speaker 1: you know, on the on the twentieth of August, the
36:25
Speaker 1: Marshal Service had received the tip from a tipster and
36:29
Speaker 1: the the you know, again, we received numerous numeorous tips
36:32
Speaker 1: throughout the years. Um, this is just one of those
36:34
Speaker 1: tips that we had to look into and and and
36:37
Speaker 1: we did and the information was fruitful, you know. Josephine
36:42
Speaker 1: went soul is joining me. Josephine, tell me how it
36:46
Speaker 1: went down that you found out R. J. McLeod had
36:50
Speaker 1: been arrested. Well, Nancy, as you know, for six years,
36:53
Speaker 1: I've been you know, sharing information with the US Marshals.
36:58
Speaker 1: Of course, you know, because of legal reasons, they can't
37:02
Speaker 1: really you know, share everything with me. But we worked
37:05
Speaker 1: together on my tips, and I just want to make
37:07
Speaker 1: that very clear. When pictures come in, of course, you know,
37:12
Speaker 1: we share it together because is this what do you think?
37:15
Speaker 1: You know, I'm the mom examining him. I can see him,
37:19
Speaker 1: you know, it's him a mile away. So when I
37:24
Speaker 1: had seen a picture that a Sores had you know,
37:29
Speaker 1: contacted the marshals. Of course, later it was determined that
37:35
Speaker 1: they had, you know, that person had seen of stuff
37:38
Speaker 1: that I was posting around. I wasn't too sure, and
37:42
Speaker 1: I wasn't hopeful. After six years, it was more like, okay,
37:47
Speaker 1: I Frankie Sanchez and Francisco Barajas had me work to
37:51
Speaker 1: a point where it's like, don't put your hopes up high,
37:54
Speaker 1: don't you know, don't get excited when we find something
37:57
Speaker 1: like this. And so it just so happened that I'm work.
38:01
Speaker 1: I was working on two cases of two missing women,
38:03
Speaker 1: and I was assisting some families. So I didn't really
38:06
Speaker 1: put a lot into it because I knew that the
38:08
Speaker 1: US Marshals were on it, and I knew that something
38:11
Speaker 1: was going to come off it. I just wasn't sure.
38:17
Speaker 1: And so when I got word of it, I basically
38:23
Speaker 1: was in shock and disbelieve. And I kept saying to
38:27
Speaker 1: the Marshal Francisco Barras, that you know, are you sure
38:31
Speaker 1: did you check his tattoo? Did you touch him? Are
38:33
Speaker 1: you sure isn't him? Is it really him? You know?
38:35
Speaker 1: I just wasn't too sure. Nancy I just didn't want
38:38
Speaker 1: to get my hopes up high, but I was. I
38:41
Speaker 1: think I was in shock too. Will there be justice?
38:45
Speaker 1: Taking a SNAr cut twenty five KUSI. Raymond McLeod stood
38:48
Speaker 1: before a judge for the first time Friday after being
38:51
Speaker 1: captured in El Salvador. The judge ordered news cameras not
38:54
Speaker 1: to show his face in court during his arraignment, but
38:58
Speaker 1: pictures of this former marine had been plastered everywhere for years.
39:02
Speaker 1: Wanted by the US Marshals as a top fugitive, McLeod
39:06
Speaker 1: had been on the run, accused of killing his girlfriend,
39:08
Speaker 1: Crystal Mitchell at a residence in Allied Gardens to Dave
39:12
Speaker 1: mc joining US Crimeoline dot Com investigative reporter Dave Matt
39:16
Speaker 1: what happens now now they'll continue on with the prosecution. Nancy,
39:20
Speaker 1: you know he has pleaded not guilty. With the judge
39:24
Speaker 1: not allowing cameras in the courtroom, we're going to be
39:26
Speaker 1: getting a lot of secondhand information coming out of the courtroom,
39:29
Speaker 1: so we'll just have to go from there. The bottom
39:31
Speaker 1: line is he is in custody. It is time for justice, finally, finally,
39:37
Speaker 1: and we wait as justice enter Fols Nancy Grace crimestores,
39:41
Speaker 1: signing off with a big, big thank you to the
39:46
Speaker 1: US Marshall Service and to Joseph E. Winsl never gave up. Goodbye.