Latest / The Curve / RTC107: Saving for a dopamine hit with Aleks Nikolic.

Transcript

RTC107: Saving for a dopamine hit with Aleks Nikolic. · The Curve

• 0:00
  Welcome to Raising the Curth, a podcast designed to teach you everything you need to know
• 0:05
  to be better with your money.
• 0:07
  And the wise words of Amy Shurma were slipping carrots into the brownie recipe.
• 0:11
  I don't really get the saying.
• 0:14
  It's kind of like eating vegetables that actually taste good.
• 0:17
  You know, I'm like, still not ready to eat.
• 0:19
  Are you on the script?
• 0:20
  It's basically like saying, investing in finance can be boring, but it totally doesn't
• 0:26
  need to be.
• 0:27
  OK, OK, so we're making it fun by putting the carrot.
• 0:31
  OK, the vegetables are good for you.
• 0:33
  It's the brownie recipe.
• 0:34
  OK, we got there, we got there.
• 0:36
  OK, OK.
• 0:36
  Well, you've really got a finance mate.
• 0:38
  Yeah, one of us has to.
• 0:40
  This is a joke.
• 0:41
  OK, come and learn alongside me from Vick Harris, ex-fun manager.
• 0:45
  Well, I'm going to ask all the questions that you wish you could.
• 0:48
  And I'm going to be eating all the brownie you wish you could.
• 0:50
  No, it's so not the joke, Vick.
• 0:53
  OK, just come and talk and learn and laugh with us.
• 0:56
  Because together, we really can raise the curve.
• 1:01
  So this guest, my name is Alex.
• 1:04
  It's actually about A-L-E-K-S.
• 1:07
  Even saying it or spelling it, I always do it wrong.
• 1:10
  Even though I know there's a K, I can never figure out where the K goes.
• 1:13
  So you might think it's Alex or the next, but no, no, no.
• 1:15
  It's Alex.
• 1:16
  Nicolick.
• 1:18
  Eric, can you probably say that wrong to me?
• 1:20
  Yeah, same.
• 1:22
  Nicolick, she sounds like it'd be way more exhausted.
• 1:24
  You know, I like, she would probably say it when more beautifully than I would.
• 1:27
  But anyway, she has an amazing Instagram called Broke Girl Welfth.
• 1:32
  So she is a, she's actually working so full-time.
• 1:36
  So she's a lawyer, she's based in Sydney.
• 1:37
  And what I loved about this is she's super passionate
• 1:40
  about helping people understand investing and personal finance
• 1:43
  and her platform has grown enormously in the last couple of years.
• 1:46
  But she's also just really cool.
• 1:49
  And she was so funny.
• 1:51
  Yeah.
• 1:52
  She's really bonded with her because she, she definitely has ADHD.
• 1:55
  Well, she said she does.
• 1:56
  I'm not like outing her for a neurodiversity.
• 1:59
  But we spoke about, do you remember?
• 2:02
  She mentioned that boyfriend that she had who was getting money from his parents
• 2:06
  and then had her up about her own buying.
• 2:09
  Do you remember?
• 2:10
  I won't spin.
• 2:11
  Yep, we won't give out a way, but honestly it was outright.
• 2:13
  We were like, wow, like honestly.
• 2:16
  I also think that the other thing that I loved about this conversation
• 2:19
  was how she spoke about the dopamine hat and how you can rethink
• 2:23
  about investing and saving and spending to kind of trick your brain
• 2:27
  when it comes to giving yourself that dopamine hat.
• 2:30
  Because the truth is, like all of us, no matter what we're doing,
• 2:33
  drinking, having coffee, hanging out with friends, having sex,
• 2:36
  we're all looking for a bit of dopamine, aren't we?
• 2:38
  Just like what a whole day of dopamine would be great, thank you.
• 2:40
  Yeah, lots of injections of dopamine.
• 2:42
  Thank you.
• 2:43
  But you shared some great tips on spending, saving, getting out of debt.
• 2:48
  Kind of articulated things in a different way that I hadn't thought of,
• 2:51
  which was really, really refreshing and I learned a lot.
• 2:55
  So yeah, here she is, Alex with a KS.
• 2:58
  So Alex, you have a great platform called Broke Your Wealth,
• 3:02
  which has been a bit of a passion project for you,
• 3:06
  part online diary, but it's a place I guess for millennials to learn about money
• 3:11
  and you are a lawyer yourself.
• 3:14
  I guess what inspired you to start, Broke Your Wealth,
• 3:17
  and what do you hope your community will gain from it?
• 3:20
  Thank you.
• 3:21
  I started it.
• 3:22
  I think sort of late 2020,
• 3:25
  and the hope for me was that it would just be like a safe place
• 3:31
  to talk about money without the judgment that I think it can often come with.
• 3:36
  Like I have been through not earning very much,
• 3:41
  wanting the flashy lifestyle, getting into credit card debt,
• 3:44
  getting out of credit card debt, finally learning how to manage money
• 3:48
  with my own brain because I think everyone of us is different.
• 3:51
  Some of us are natural savers, natural spenders,
• 3:54
  natural over spenders as well.
• 3:57
  And it's just a warm and inviting place for people who didn't grow up
• 4:04
  with money or learning about money to hopefully pick up a tip or two
• 4:10
  in a really non-judgmental way.
• 4:13
  And was there a point in your life or a certain time where you were like,
• 4:16
  oh gosh, like a light bulb moment where you were like,
• 4:19
  I need this knowledge to be shared with others.
• 4:23
  Was there any one point you can remember?
• 4:25
  I think when COVID here,
• 4:27
  and our generation realized that our jobs weren't 100%
• 4:31
  and that there were no guarantees and that crazy things can happen in the world,
• 4:35
  a lot of us were scrambling, there was no savings to fall back on
• 4:40
  and there was a bit of a gap between Australia at the very least,
• 4:44
  the government stepping in to provide support.
• 4:47
  And there was just this shock, I think.
• 4:49
  And that light bulb moment for me, like in my own personal finances,
• 4:53
  it happened a couple of years before where I sort of woke up and I was like,
• 4:58
  if I keep overspending, there's nothing to show for how hard I'm working
• 5:02
  and all of these four jobs that I'm constantly busy with.
• 5:06
  And sort of watching that play out for people younger than me,
• 5:09
  who maybe were in insecure employment or like contract work or hospitality,
• 5:14
  which just shut down right overnight.
• 5:17
  And I just felt this sense of responsibility,
• 5:21
  like I don't know, I kind of think of myself as like,
• 5:24
  I don't have any siblings, but I'd like to think I'm like the internet's big sister.
• 5:27
  And it's like, it's going to be okay.
• 5:29
  Like you can learn how to do this.
• 5:31
  I love that.
• 5:32
  Yeah.
• 5:33
  I love that so much.
• 5:34
  I actually remember that during COVID, I was the same.
• 5:37
  I was in a job, getting paid a salary, got paid every month,
• 5:41
  the same day, same amount.
• 5:43
  And then COVID hit.
• 5:45
  And it was such a, like we're restructuring, you know,
• 5:47
  a third of the staff with the place that I worked,
• 5:50
  they were going to lose their job.
• 5:51
  If you get a call, then that's going to be you.
• 5:54
  That's a conversation you're going to be having.
• 5:56
  And I, this panic, I was like, oh my goodness.
• 6:00
  But I have things I need to pay for.
• 6:01
  And I've got this.
• 6:02
  And it was the first time my life, I was like,
• 6:04
  just because I have quote unquote, a stable job.
• 6:07
  Yeah.
• 6:08
  Doesn't mean that it's going to last forever.
• 6:10
  And yeah, I totally get that light bulb moment of
• 6:13
  you're kind of the mastery of your own destiny,
• 6:15
  but to a point and then someone else's.
• 6:17
  Oh, yeah.
• 6:18
  It's really frustrates me.
• 6:20
  And I've dealt with this a lot recently is how
• 6:23
  not frowned upon it as three-south employed,
• 6:25
  but how you're kind of a bit more of a annoying case
• 6:28
  when it comes to getting a credit card,
• 6:30
  getting a mortgage.
• 6:31
  Oh, absolutely.
• 6:32
  For a rental.
• 6:33
  Yeah.
• 6:34
  And I'm like, you know what?
• 6:35
  Just because I'm paying myself doesn't mean I'm any more
• 6:38
  or less secure in terms of my salary.
• 6:41
  Oh, absolutely.
• 6:42
  Working for someone else.
• 6:43
  I just really grind my gears.
• 6:45
  I'm trying to get a flat at the moment in London,
• 6:47
  just the context.
• 6:48
  And she's having to be like, I'm self employed.
• 6:50
  And then just like the bottom of the pile in terms of
• 6:53
  who's actually going to get that flat.
• 6:55
  Like there's no way she's also the job,
• 6:57
  which is, you know, another big red.
• 6:59
  And New Zealand.
• 7:00
  And like all of them are like, oh, God.
• 7:03
  If you're just incorporated and then paid yourself
• 7:06
  the same salary that you get paid.
• 7:08
  If you weren't self employed,
• 7:10
  they'd be like, oh, company, great.
• 7:13
  And it's true.
• 7:14
  Like there's a lot of very old-fashioned assessments
• 7:17
  when it comes to risk.
• 7:18
  Like you could be in a salary job,
• 7:20
  but not know how to manage your money,
• 7:21
  even though you do get paid every two weeks,
• 7:23
  whereas you could be in self employed.
• 7:26
  And again, like 12 months of emergency fund,
• 7:29
  like totally have full dominion over your money
• 7:33
  and where it's going.
• 7:34
  But it's a real shame.
• 7:35
  I'm sorry.
• 7:36
  Good luck with the red publication.
• 7:38
  So the fact that you're still working as a lawyer
• 7:41
  is crazy to me because there's no way
• 7:43
  I could imagine doing a full-time job on the side of the curve.
• 7:46
  Like how?
• 7:47
  Do you see this?
• 7:48
  Sometimes.
• 7:49
  But also is your platform,
• 7:51
  are you doing it to make money?
• 7:52
  Is it a community building thing?
• 7:54
  Like is it a business?
• 7:55
  Or are you doing it more as like a hobby?
• 7:57
  It started as a hobby.
• 8:00
  And it sort of morphed into this business
• 8:04
  that I can really turn up the dialogue and turn down the dialogue.
• 8:08
  I mean, I'm a someone who is traditionally employed
• 8:11
  with such privilege with getting paid every four nights
• 8:14
  same day.
• 8:15
  And I think that contributes, at least for me,
• 8:17
  to a lot of financial stability
• 8:20
  and also just like the ability to accelerate reaching goals
• 8:23
  because I'm going to spend eight hours at a workplace
• 8:26
  and might as well get paid,
• 8:28
  as much as possible doing that.
• 8:30
  And I genuinely love my job.
• 8:32
  I know that's not kind of rare for people,
• 8:35
  but I love what I do.
• 8:36
  And so I was never really,
• 8:38
  I didn't start for a girl.
• 8:39
  Well, there's anything more than a community,
• 8:41
  like some sort of like financial kumbaya.
• 8:44
  And it's morphed into that little bit of career.
• 8:48
  But I love having it on the side.
• 8:50
  It's such a creative outlet.
• 8:52
  It's so warm, like the community is so lovely.
• 8:56
  And it kind of gives me the best of both worlds as well.
• 9:00
  Plus, you know, cosy living,
• 9:03
  a little bit of extra cash.
• 9:05
  Of course, everyone will say,
• 9:08
  thank you, please.
• 9:09
  Yeah, it's interesting that you say that
• 9:11
  about the cost of living crisis and finding extra
• 9:15
  ways to generate income because a lot of people
• 9:18
  when times are tough or, you know,
• 9:21
  your paycheck isn't going as far,
• 9:23
  like we are at the moment,
• 9:25
  everyone looks at how to cut back on spending.
• 9:27
  And it's like, no, no, no.
• 9:28
  There is also another side of that equation.
• 9:30
  And it's, how can you make more money?
• 9:32
  And yes, this might be difficult for some people.
• 9:35
  But it is looking at what,
• 9:37
  what are your passions?
• 9:38
  What are you good at?
• 9:40
  You know, what is that creative outlet?
• 9:42
  You've always wanted to try.
• 9:43
  You know, there's so many examples.
• 9:45
  Like for me, I'm just like,
• 9:46
  selling, well, I am moving overseas,
• 9:48
  but I've been selling so much of my stuff.
• 9:50
  And I'm like, this is great.
• 9:51
  Oh, my God.
• 9:52
  I get all the things going on.
• 9:53
  I'm so sustainable as well.
• 9:56
  We love it.
• 9:57
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 9:58
  It's very cleansing as well.
• 9:59
  But it's, yeah, it's looking around and being like,
• 10:01
  how can, how can me and my skillset make more money
• 10:04
  as well as, as well as cutting back?
• 10:06
  Because there is sometimes only a certain amount
• 10:08
  you can cut back on before you actually
• 10:10
  can't live anymore.
• 10:11
  Absolutely.
• 10:12
  Yeah.
• 10:13
  Yeah.
• 10:15
  When you spoke about, you had a bit of a journey
• 10:18
  with your own finances.
• 10:19
  You realized how much you didn't know
• 10:21
  and how much, you know,
• 10:23
  I guess just that education gap.
• 10:25
  How were you spending your money?
• 10:27
  How were you interacting with your finances?
• 10:29
  And how has that evolved since starting your platform?
• 10:32
  That's such a good question.
• 10:34
  So I think there was like two key threads
• 10:37
  to my relationship with money.
• 10:40
  I think for a lot of people,
• 10:41
  and I say this all the time,
• 10:43
  we think of money in this very abstract way,
• 10:46
  but it's so emotional.
• 10:48
  A lot of us have a relationship with money
• 10:50
  that is, sorry, Sigmund Freud,
• 10:52
  so tied to our childhoods.
• 10:54
  And our first memory with money
• 10:57
  is often one that has this huge shape, right?
• 11:01
  People who didn't grow up with a lot,
• 11:03
  maybe overspend or a super, super frugal,
• 11:05
  but that like moderation comes with time and education
• 11:09
  and like kind of reflecting on where you want to go,
• 11:11
  what the success and happiness look like to you
• 11:13
  and how can money enable that?
• 11:15
  Because it is an enable it, right?
• 11:17
  It purchases choice.
• 11:18
  And that's really the crux of it.
• 11:20
  For me, I grew up, you know,
• 11:23
  lower middle class and then we sort of became middle class
• 11:26
  as time went on.
• 11:28
  Grandparents were migrants.
• 11:29
  I'm first generation Australian.
• 11:31
  And for us, it was all about sacrifice, sacrifice, sacrifice,
• 11:34
  save, save, save, save, save.
• 11:36
  And I saw all my friends at school
• 11:39
  having iPhones and going on trips to Thailand.
• 11:43
  And so for me, money was tied with like,
• 11:46
  how can I purchase this aspirational lifestyle
• 11:49
  that quite frankly I can't afford right now?
• 11:52
  And that's what I've contributed to overspending.
• 11:54
  And it wasn't even on when you had such a good question,
• 11:57
  what did I spend it on?
• 11:58
  The answer is nothing important.
• 12:00
  I wasn't overspending on things that like brought joy
• 12:03
  or going to Europe with the money.
• 12:06
  I was just overspending on clothes, food, going out.
• 12:11
  And I was working four jobs at the time to sustain
• 12:15
  spending on stuff that wasn't bringing me joy.
• 12:18
  And the evolution for me has been finding that balance
• 12:22
  between I have some really lofty financial goals.
• 12:26
  I want my husband and I to have enough money
• 12:29
  that we don't have to work full time.
• 12:31
  We can, if we want to,
• 12:33
  but I want our investments to be able to sustain us
• 12:35
  both working part-time,
• 12:37
  especially while our kids are future hypothetical children
• 12:41
  are growing up.
• 12:42
  Like that's so important to me to be there while they're young
• 12:45
  and for that not to be a big financial sacrifice.
• 12:50
  But I also just spend better.
• 12:53
  Like I am absolutely not one of those people on the internet
• 12:57
  that are like cut your sponges, never go to a restaurant.
• 13:01
  I absolutely have cut your sponges.
• 13:05
  Oh my God.
• 13:06
  I was just about to say we've got to pause on that.
• 13:08
  Yeah.
• 13:09
  Is it like you actually kitchen sponge?
• 13:11
  Yeah, because so from Vic,
• 13:13
  like how could you save more money?
• 13:15
  Don't use a full sponge.
• 13:16
  Cut it into four.
• 13:17
  Oh wow.
• 13:18
  Like that kind of shit.
• 13:19
  Just like we're saying,
• 13:21
  use toilet paper multiple times or something.
• 13:24
  Like this.
• 13:25
  Just like, okay, okay.
• 13:26
  That's right.
• 13:27
  That's what kind of,
• 13:28
  and you know what?
• 13:29
  It was so sexist as well, right?
• 13:30
  Because that wasn't the money articles
• 13:32
  that were being pitched to men.
• 13:34
  Men were like getting,
• 13:35
  how do you accelerate your career
• 13:37
  and make your boss like you
• 13:38
  so you can get a promotion
• 13:39
  in six easy steps.
• 13:40
  And women's finance content
• 13:42
  was how can you say,
• 13:44
  you know, how to feed your family
• 13:45
  or for a figural grocery budget
• 13:47
  and cut the sponges
• 13:49
  so that your cleaning costs are less.
• 13:51
  Like crazy stuff like that,
• 13:53
  which that's not going to move the needle that much, right?
• 13:56
  I think that's the thing.
• 13:57
  It's sort of a kind of highlights
• 13:59
  the scarcity mindset more.
• 14:01
  And that's why even when people say,
• 14:03
  cut back on your three coffees a week,
• 14:05
  I mean, sometimes that kind of budgeting,
• 14:08
  I find can be really disempowering
• 14:11
  and make me so angly attentive
• 14:14
  to every 50 cents.
• 14:15
  And that's like not on abundance mindset.
• 14:18
  Yeah, and I think that
• 14:20
  abundance comes from making your money
• 14:23
  going the direction of the things
• 14:25
  that you are actually passionate about.
• 14:28
  If you are actually passionate about travel,
• 14:31
  then you should absolutely funnel your savings
• 14:33
  to create a sinking fund for travel.
• 14:35
  In the same way that if you're starting a business,
• 14:37
  you should funnel your money into having an emergency fund
• 14:40
  or, you know, money set aside
• 14:42
  to invest in that dream.
• 14:45
  But the whole,
• 14:46
  I do think a lot of the money advice
• 14:48
  focuses too much on less, less, less
• 14:52
  and not on more.
• 14:54
  And for women in particular,
• 14:56
  we still have a gender pay gap.
• 14:58
  If I could give women one piece of advice,
• 15:00
  it's more.
• 15:01
  Go earn more.
• 15:02
  Demand more.
• 15:03
  Yeah.
• 15:04
  Right?
• 15:05
  You can do so much more,
• 15:07
  earning $10,000 more a year
• 15:09
  than you can do with saving, like, 10 bucks.
• 15:12
  Yeah, go earn more.
• 15:14
  Go ask for more.
• 15:15
  Go ask for more.
• 15:16
  Go ask for more.
• 15:17
  Yeah.
• 15:18
  No doubt that the stats show
• 15:19
  you're probably getting paid less than your male colleagues.
• 15:21
  Yeah.
• 15:22
  So just going off that,
• 15:24
  just go ask for more.
• 15:25
  That's right.
• 15:26
  So would you say that the way in which you've changed
• 15:28
  how you spend and save an invest
• 15:30
  is just,
• 15:32
  would you send a sentence that's almost like
• 15:34
  redefining what's important to you
• 15:37
  and then actually spending
• 15:39
  and using your money in a way
• 15:41
  that aligns with that,
• 15:42
  opposed to keeping up with your friends,
• 15:44
  going to all the good restaurants,
• 15:45
  it's like taking a step back
• 15:47
  from that emotional,
• 15:48
  knee-jerk reaction of,
• 15:50
  this is just how I'm going to unconsciously spend
• 15:52
  and tap my card.
• 15:53
  It's like,
• 15:54
  okay, what I want.
• 15:55
  I actually want to be able to be home with my kids
• 15:57
  and raise them
• 15:59
  and spend that first five years,
• 16:00
  maybe not working at all or one day a week.
• 16:02
  And I want to do that with my husband.
• 16:04
  And so,
• 16:05
  if I want to do that,
• 16:07
  I don't really have a problem
• 16:08
  sacrificing XYZ
• 16:10
  because my emotional tie
• 16:12
  to that bigger desire
• 16:14
  is more of a pull
• 16:16
  than the everyday spend.
• 16:17
  Would you say that's kind of just...
• 16:19
  It's such a beautiful way to put it.
• 16:21
  I mean, I could even condense it down
• 16:23
  into show-mo
• 16:25
  as in joy of missing out.
• 16:27
  Like I,
• 16:29
  you know,
• 16:30
  I see my friends
• 16:32
  like clubbing
• 16:33
  and for the friends
• 16:34
  that love doing that,
• 16:35
  you're very into electronic music,
• 16:37
  like you're very into that scene.
• 16:39
  I am so excited for them
• 16:41
  and I'm so excited not to be there
• 16:43
  and not spend that money.
• 16:45
  But I am
• 16:47
  the first person
• 16:49
  to like go out
• 16:51
  and get a coffee.
• 16:53
  And I will enjoy the hell
• 16:55
  out of my five dollar
• 16:57
  because it's Sydney CBD,
• 16:59
  five dollar cappuccino.
• 17:01
  And it's all about
• 17:03
  that at an individual level.
• 17:05
  Like spending money on the stuff
• 17:07
  that like energizes you,
• 17:09
  makes you happy.
• 17:11
  And if that's a facial,
• 17:13
  because mine will be different to yours
• 17:15
  different to someone else's.
• 17:17
  But it's your money.
• 17:19
  And so you should put it where it makes you happy.
• 17:21
  And obviously that means investing.
• 17:23
  Obviously that means saving.
• 17:25
  But there's a real joy that comes from like
• 17:27
  splurging on something
• 17:29
  and it being such a happy purchase
• 17:31
  as opposed to what I felt I needed
• 17:33
  addressed for this event that I also
• 17:35
  didn't really want to go to.
• 17:37
  But I bought it.
• 17:39
  I spent $300.
• 17:41
  That's so not a good experience.
• 17:43
  So I think we can all reframe
• 17:45
  the way we spend money
• 17:47
  before you get to them a budgeting.
• 17:49
  Just like think about that
• 17:51
  as a little mental exercise.
• 17:53
  What purchases make you feel excited?
• 17:55
  And what purchases do you look back on?
• 17:57
  And you go, oh,
• 17:59
  I feel a bit gross about that one.
• 18:01
  Because I really struggle
• 18:03
  with the whole delay
• 18:05
  gratification.
• 18:07
  Like I understand and obviously
• 18:09
  I do.
• 18:11
  I get compound interest.
• 18:13
  And I get saving for the long term.
• 18:15
  And you know, if you,
• 18:17
  the more you save now,
• 18:19
  there's have to save in retirement
• 18:21
  because of investing.
• 18:23
  I get all that.
• 18:25
  But I also am like,
• 18:27
  I don't have children right now.
• 18:29
  This is the perfect time to be traveling
• 18:31
  or doing those kind of things.
• 18:33
  And it's this constant battle of,
• 18:35
  no, no, put that money aside.
• 18:37
  So there's this constant,
• 18:39
  it's a constant battle of
• 18:41
  spending hours is spending later.
• 18:43
  Yeah. And I know
• 18:45
  our audience has exactly the same issue
• 18:47
  because we give messages all the time
• 18:49
  from people that are having the same frustrations.
• 18:53
  Do you have any tips on,
• 18:55
  I guess, make the same focus
• 18:57
  to those long term goals?
• 18:59
  I have a brain
• 19:01
  that needs constant dopamine.
• 19:03
  So I fully relate to that.
• 19:05
  Right. Are you neurotypical
• 19:07
  or are you neurotypical?
• 19:09
  Me too.
• 19:11
  This is why we get along.
• 19:13
  It's like people find your track.
• 19:15
  I do have a tip.
• 19:17
  And I think it goes for anyone
• 19:19
  who really has that tension.
• 19:21
  Neurotypical or otherwise.
• 19:23
  And it's,
• 19:25
  you can't save money.
• 19:27
  You cannot invest
• 19:29
  if you don't care about where that money is going.
• 19:31
  Right.
• 19:33
  So I have dopamine
• 19:35
  from the saving.
• 19:37
  And if you're saving for
• 19:39
  my hypothetical house,
• 19:41
  my hypothetical children,
• 19:43
  this hypothetical future
• 19:45
  that I actually don't really care about,
• 19:47
  can't really visualize,
• 19:49
  of course it's all going to fall apart
• 19:51
  because that's not exciting.
• 19:53
  That's like a bunch of weird abstract
• 19:55
  responsibilities.
• 19:57
  But if you like
• 19:59
  the travel one is such a good one
• 20:01
  and it just had this part of savings.
• 20:03
  And one of the things that really helped me
• 20:05
  and a very visual person
• 20:07
  was each bank account,
• 20:09
  each saving,
• 20:11
  was its own folder
• 20:13
  in my bank.
• 20:15
  And every time I put money into it,
• 20:17
  I knew I was like 5% closer to flights to Europe.
• 20:19
  And that was exciting.
• 20:21
  What wasn't exciting was going
• 20:23
  to take money out of that account
• 20:25
  to buy some dress that I would never think about twice
• 20:27
  two weeks later.
• 20:29
  Flights or the dress.
• 20:31
  Yeah.
• 20:33
  You know,
• 20:35
  Positano for a week or the dress.
• 20:37
  Sipping the gronies on the beach
• 20:39
  or this dress.
• 20:41
  And then that was its own motivator.
• 20:43
  Whereas I think a lot of us have savings
• 20:45
  and it's just this big pile of money.
• 20:47
  And so you can dip in and out of that so easily
• 20:49
  because you don't know what you're stealing from.
• 20:51
  So I find that really helpful.
• 20:53
  But there's so many strategies
• 20:55
  and you kind of have to find something
• 20:57
  I like the idea of visualising it.
• 20:59
  I also think
• 21:01
  that dopamine hit is such an important piece.
• 21:03
  I don't think anyone has
• 21:05
  even mentioned on the podcast before.
• 21:07
  And you know, even it's maybe taking
• 21:09
  a step further.
• 21:11
  It's not just Positano.
• 21:13
  It's like, what is the plan?
• 21:15
  How much is that going to cost?
• 21:17
  And what do you want to do?
• 21:19
  And so it's like that trip is so visualised
• 21:21
  and so real that it's not just a trip
• 21:23
  or going traveling.
• 21:25
  Because I want to learn Italian
• 21:27
  and I want to just eat carbohydrates
• 21:29
  for it.
• 21:31
  So whatever it is,
• 21:33
  it's actually making it way more tangible
• 21:35
  so it doesn't feel like this far off thing.
• 21:37
  And say you're just saving in this big,
• 21:39
  I don't know, giant melting pot of money.
• 21:41
  And yeah, there might be a house
• 21:43
  and there may be a baby in 10 years time.
• 21:45
  Maybe a wedding. Whatever those things are.
• 21:47
  It's not giving us the best chance of sticking to it
• 21:49
  because in a world where that instant gratification
• 21:51
  is so easy to get elsewhere.
• 21:53
  If you haven't really met out
• 21:55
  the things that are going to emotionally
• 21:57
  like trigger you to not spend that money
• 21:59
  and actually put it towards that thing
• 22:01
  that's really tangible
• 22:03
  and you can imagine and see.
• 22:05
  Of course you're going to spend the money on a stupid dress
• 22:07
  but if you've thought about it,
• 22:09
  you've sat down with yourself
• 22:11
  and you've really knotted out
• 22:13
  what are you saving or investing for.
• 22:15
  That's a totally different kettle of fish.
• 22:17
  And even when you transfer the money
• 22:19
  you should put next to it
• 22:21
  because when you're transferring the account.
• 22:23
  Yeah, I love that.
• 22:25
  I just sort of that then.
• 22:27
  I was like, this is genius.
• 22:29
  You should go one look.
• 22:31
  Yeah, I'm saving two animals.
• 22:33
  Two animals.
• 22:35
  I'm saving a beautiful dinner
• 22:37
  by the ocean.
• 22:39
  Or I'm saving a pasta.
• 22:41
  I love that.
• 22:43
  It's so powerful.
• 22:45
  Yeah, and buy sized pieces
• 22:47
  so that you get that dopamine here.
• 22:49
  And you can see the color in sheets.
• 22:51
  If that's your vibe, people will take their holiday fun,
• 22:53
  turn it into a big cocktail glass
• 22:55
  and then color in each little segment of that cocktail glass
• 22:59
  as they get to the end of their savings.
• 23:03
  Other things that I think can really help
• 23:05
  is especially for anyone that's neurodivergent
• 23:07
  is out of sight, out of mind.
• 23:09
  If you automate that money
• 23:11
  and you pretend you actually put it in a different bank account
• 23:15
  or even in a folder
• 23:17
  or you hide that savings completely,
• 23:19
  that was a game changer for me.
• 23:21
  Because if I didn't see the money
• 23:23
  if there wasn't like 2,000 of random money
• 23:25
  sitting in my debit card account,
• 23:27
  I didn't have it.
• 23:29
  And my brain was like, it doesn't exist
• 23:31
  so you can't spend it.
• 23:33
  Yeah, creating friction so you can't just dip into it.
• 23:35
  I even find that myself.
• 23:37
  And I'm like, I'm not neurodivergent.
• 23:39
  But I also find having to
• 23:41
  create that extra step
• 23:43
  or that extra barrier.
• 23:45
  And I just give you an example,
• 23:47
  remember when we went
• 23:49
  and had a trip with friends overseas
• 23:51
  and I'd over-invested
• 23:53
  and I basically, in my head,
• 23:55
  I didn't have any money.
• 23:57
  I was like, I have no money.
• 23:59
  And then Vic looked at my shares
• 24:01
  and was like, you've got like nearly 20 grand in there.
• 24:03
  And in my head, because I had done it so
• 24:05
  out of sight out of mind.
• 24:07
  And I'd say to myself,
• 24:09
  this is for like 30 years.
• 24:11
  I genuinely didn't think about that as money that I had.
• 24:13
  I had a dipping into that because I had done it once.
• 24:15
  It's now all gone.
• 24:17
  And I know that that's probably similar
• 24:19
  whether you're a typical or divergent.
• 24:21
  But I can totally resonate
• 24:23
  with that idea of it being
• 24:25
  something you kind of,
• 24:27
  it's just like not even an option
• 24:29
  because it's so far from your brain
• 24:31
  whereas as soon as it's visible
• 24:33
  or there, it's a completely different story.
• 24:35
  And I guess it's kind of like death as well.
• 24:37
  This is why we kind of say,
• 24:39
  avoid credit cards if you can.
• 24:41
  I've got this extra money.
• 24:43
  I'll pay it back later.
• 24:45
  And it's like, it's so much harder to pay it back
• 24:47
  once you've spent it.
• 24:49
  There's always that mentality of,
• 24:51
  I'll make it up later
• 24:53
  or I'll add to it later.
• 24:55
  I'll pay it back or, yeah.
• 24:57
  Alex, can we chat about investing?
• 24:59
  Am I right in thinking like $400 every two weeks?
• 25:03
  Did I make that up? Or is that a true fact?
• 25:05
  It used to be, yeah.
• 25:07
  It's like it's $500.
• 25:09
  So in Australia, we've got retirement funds.
• 25:11
  So I do that as well as investing outside.
• 25:15
  But I just want to say just a quick disclaimer on that amount
• 25:17
  because like people,
• 25:19
  I think that amount at different,
• 25:21
  you know, I was investing $15 a foot
• 25:23
  when I was like in my early 20s.
• 25:25
  So I don't want anyone to see that amount and go,
• 25:27
  oh my god, that's,
• 25:29
  if I'm not investing that much,
• 25:31
  I shouldn't even be investing like,
• 25:33
  I'm a lawyer.
• 25:35
  Like we earn a lot of money.
• 25:37
  That's for me,
• 25:39
  for as a percentage of my fortnightly wage,
• 25:41
  a very, very different amount
• 25:43
  than someone who might just have started working
• 25:45
  and wants to invest.
• 25:47
  So the amount is not important.
• 25:49
  It's actually just the fact that I invest,
• 25:53
  rain, hail or shine.
• 25:55
  Like it just happens.
• 25:57
  Order that. Yeah.
• 25:59
  It's not the amount.
• 26:01
  It's the regularness and consistency of it.
• 26:03
  Yeah. So how would you then,
• 26:05
  I know your net worth is like incredibly impressive now,
• 26:09
  like $180,000 at 26 is absolutely bonkers.
• 26:13
  So for anyone who hears that
• 26:15
  and feels like, oh god,
• 26:17
  I mean, I don't even have $10.
• 26:19
  How can we motivate people who maybe
• 26:21
  feel like that small amount is not worth it
• 26:23
  or, you know, maybe they haven't started yet
• 26:25
  and they're so far away from being able to put aside
• 26:27
  400 to 500 every two weeks.
• 26:29
  How would you speak to someone
• 26:31
  that's at the beginning of their investing journey
• 26:33
  and empower them to feel like
• 26:59
  that you have?
• 27:01
  And the number that comes out,
• 27:03
  that's your net worth.
• 27:05
  So you might have a house that's worth a million.
• 27:07
  Maybe that's your only asset.
• 27:09
  And there's an $800,000 mortgage,
• 27:11
  simple baths.
• 27:13
  Your net worth is $200,000.
• 27:15
  So a lot of the time,
• 27:17
  people get to quite big numbers
• 27:19
  because they have big assets
• 27:21
  that might have a lot of debt against them
• 27:23
  but might have appreciated.
• 27:25
  So like my apartment was a really good example.
• 27:27
  I own of that apartment and how much I own the bank.
• 27:31
  That's a significant contributor to my net worth.
• 27:33
  And paying off my student loan as well,
• 27:35
  that was a big contributor.
• 27:37
  But to your question on how to motivate the small stuff
• 27:41
  is such a good one.
• 27:43
  As an example, when I first started working,
• 27:47
  I was working as a paralegal in my team
• 27:51
  and I couldn't afford to invest outside
• 27:55
  of my super.
• 27:57
  But I wanted to invest in some way.
• 27:59
  And this was before raised,
• 28:01
  which is kind of similar to Sharesys,
• 28:03
  because I think Sharesys allows you to do,
• 28:05
  like, fractional investments with small amounts.
• 28:07
  I was putting in $30 a fortnight into my super,
• 28:09
  as like an additional payment
• 28:11
  and superannuation in Australia as your retirement fund.
• 28:14
  That small amount is now tens of thousands of dollars
• 28:19
  of extra on my super
• 28:22
  because it was invested almost 10 years ago now.
• 28:26
  And so maybe for people who like the visual,
• 28:30
  put $50 into a compound interest calculator
• 28:34
  and just see how big that can be
• 28:38
  over a long period of time.
• 28:40
  Every single dollar that you put towards something
• 28:44
  that will appreciate is bigger than that initial investment.
• 28:48
  And I think sometimes we'd like the big change.
• 28:52
  You know, we want to lose five kilos in a week.
• 28:54
  We want to do all this big stuff.
• 28:56
  But like every tree started as a seed.
• 28:58
  None of us started running before we started crawling.
• 29:00
  Before we started walking.
• 29:02
  Before we started jogging.
• 29:04
  Before we started sprinting.
• 29:06
  So I think we have to have a little bit of grace with ourselves.
• 29:08
  And again, out of sight out of mind helps a lot.
• 29:11
  $15, if that's all you can afford, that's fine.
• 29:14
  Just invest it.
• 29:16
  And you don't look at it.
• 29:18
  And you will look back in a year.
• 29:20
  And you will be gobsmacked.
• 29:22
  Even that small amount.
• 29:24
  You'll be like, oh my god, amazing.
• 29:26
  I get so frustrated and always try to catch myself
• 29:28
  when I'm like, gosh, the last year went so quickly.
• 29:30
  Your gosh, the last six months flew by like that.
• 29:34
  And I'm like, yes, when we tell people you invest for five years, 10 years.
• 29:40
  I'm like, that sounds like a long time.
• 29:42
  But trust me, it will go so quickly.
• 29:44
  And before you know it, you will have a pretty decent,
• 29:48
  if you're contributing $50 a fortnight,
• 29:50
  you will have a pretty decent rest time at savings
• 29:54
  or superannuation savings or whatever.
• 29:56
  Because time does go so quickly.
• 29:58
  I saw this fantastic quote that I was talking about how often people
• 30:04
  who maybe there's a lot of pressure when you get in your 30s about
• 30:08
  what you should have done in your 20s.
• 30:10
  And this goes for investing or studying or anything you want to do.
• 30:12
  You can be five years older and still asking yourself,
• 30:17
  am I going to invest?
• 30:18
  Am I going to do this degree?
• 30:20
  Or you can be five years older and have invested and be $X,000 better
• 30:25
  or have that one degree more or further educational change jobs
• 30:30
  or whatever it is, the time will still go.
• 30:33
  So you may as well just start because it doesn't matter
• 30:37
  when you're starting.
• 30:38
  You know what I mean?
• 30:39
  Yeah, I love that.
• 30:40
  So recently on Instagram you put up a post talking about choosing
• 30:45
  the right person being like maybe the most important decision
• 30:49
  that you ever make financially.
• 30:51
  Can we talk about that?
• 30:53
  Like what inspired you to share it?
• 30:56
  And what can people keep in mind when dating, keeping money
• 31:00
  and financial goals in mind?
• 31:02
  Oh, I think it's one of my favorite questions.
• 31:07
  I think it's not talked about how devastating divorce
• 31:13
  can be financially or even just being with the wrong person
• 31:17
  like you're a spender, they're a saver
• 31:19
  and you're constantly fighting about that.
• 31:22
  As someone who's a child of divorce but also acknowledging
• 31:25
  that one of the biggest reasons people point to for divorce
• 31:30
  is financial incompatibility or disputes about finances.
• 31:33
  It's really the only thing that will push people over the edge
• 31:36
  but it's certainly a huge contributor.
• 31:39
  This person is with you and they're going 50, 50 with you
• 31:43
  on everything but importantly on the big financial decisions
• 31:46
  which house, which car, how you can erase your kids,
• 31:48
  private school, public school, whatever.
• 31:50
  And if you are constantly having this conflict about
• 31:54
  whether we should say for a holiday or whether we should just splurge
• 31:57
  and you know, buy the house that may be kind of forward
• 32:00
  but feels like it might be the right decision,
• 32:03
  that causes so much conflict in that relationship
• 32:06
  but also is such a waste of time.
• 32:09
  I think when we talk about compatibility
• 32:11
  like we should have the same religion
• 32:13
  or we should want the same things.
• 32:15
  We rarely sit down with our partner
• 32:18
  and go like what's your money in language?
• 32:20
  What do you care about spending money on when it comes?
• 32:23
  I think that compatibility can be a really strong foundation
• 32:27
  for the more challenging questions as well.
• 32:30
  Like where are we going to live?
• 32:31
  What if one of us wants to go and work overseas?
• 32:33
  What do we do then?
• 32:35
  That's why I think it's something everyone should talk about their partner.
• 32:37
  You know, we talk about how many kids you want and which religion
• 32:40
  talk to your partner about money.
• 32:42
  Like you should know what debts you have,
• 32:44
  how much money you have, how much you earn before you have
• 32:47
  a serious relationship.
• 32:49
  My husband and I keep our finances separate
• 32:51
  but then we just split everything 50, 50
• 32:53
  or in proportion to income,
• 32:55
  depending on how our salaries have changed.
• 32:58
  But I just find it so freeing
• 33:02
  to be with someone where it's never a conversation around
• 33:05
  I think you should spend a little bit less
• 33:07
  or I don't think you should go out
• 33:09
  and spend $400 at the bar with your friends.
• 33:13
  We pretty much have a very similar threshold
• 33:17
  and we talk to each other about money
• 33:19
  even though we don't share finances
• 33:21
  like we talk about big purchases and that sort of thing.
• 33:24
  I just think it's a really healthy thing to do
• 33:27
  and it takes that to boo out of like what is honestly
• 33:30
  someone that most of us want to spend the rest of our lives with.
• 33:33
  So what would be like a red flag financial red flag?
• 33:36
  Can you point out a couple?
• 33:38
  Yeah, so some of the more dangerous ones are
• 33:42
  someone who wants to control how you spend your money.
• 33:45
  Not discuss but control how you spend your money.
• 33:48
  Someone who doesn't give you access to money
• 33:51
  or takes away your access to money.
• 33:53
  Some of the more milder ones might be someone
• 33:56
  who's unwilling to share with you as candidly
• 33:59
  as you share with them.
• 34:01
  How much they earn, what debts they have.
• 34:03
  The debt one is in particular a really big flag for me.
• 34:07
  You know, if someone has is addicted to gambling
• 34:11
  that's something you should talk about, right?
• 34:13
  Because you need to go into these relationships
• 34:15
  eyes wide open in my view.
• 34:17
  If you're going to share your body in your home
• 34:20
  you should know, you know, everyone's deady laundering.
• 34:23
  What if you found out that someone was lying
• 34:26
  about their salary so they could have more money to spend?
• 34:29
  Would you consider that to be cheating?
• 34:32
  I think I would consider that to be a really, really worrying betrayal.
• 34:38
  Like if you found out your partner that you used to put things 5050
• 34:42
  if he was actually earning more than what he said,
• 34:45
  feel like that.
• 34:46
  Especially if you're splitting it proportionally.
• 34:48
  Like if you're figuring out rein based on proportionate,
• 34:51
  I just think you'd be worried that someone can lie
• 34:53
  about anything in general, wouldn't you?
• 34:55
  You're like, you're blatantly telling me like,
• 34:57
  it's hard.
• 34:59
  Like if you boil that down to a characteristic,
• 35:01
  isn't that indicative of someone's selfishness?
• 35:05
  Like they are not.
• 35:06
  Yeah, that would worry me from a,
• 35:09
  because I think, as I said, money, it's a language that we speak
• 35:12
  and I think a lot of us have this connection to it
• 35:15
  when we were children.
• 35:16
  Like what does that say about that person
• 35:18
  that they're prioritizing, they're lying,
• 35:21
  but they're also prioritizing their own largest over yours?
• 35:26
  You know, especially if there was a huge disparity in the income.
• 35:30
  Like what does that mean about their investment in you
• 35:34
  and you having disposable income as well?
• 35:37
  You'd probably notice it as well.
• 35:39
  You'd be like, hang on a second.
• 35:40
  How can you afford that when you said that you were earning?
• 35:43
  That's right.
• 35:44
  Yeah, so we're pretty obvious at some point.
• 35:47
  Yeah.
• 35:48
  If you've fallen out with friends or like not dated people
• 35:51
  because of financial red flags,
• 35:53
  like has this ever been something that you,
• 35:55
  like do you navigate a lot of your relationships based on
• 35:58
  people's ability to have conversations about this?
• 36:00
  Be honest, blah, blah, blah.
• 36:01
  I do.
• 36:02
  I wouldn't say that it,
• 36:04
  it was like top of my list,
• 36:06
  but as I said,
• 36:07
  like I think it goes to other values people have,
• 36:11
  like compassion and empathy,
• 36:13
  selfish someone is,
• 36:15
  are they going to provide
• 36:18
  or be concerned about providing for a family in the same way
• 36:21
  that I am?
• 36:22
  But in previous relationships,
• 36:24
  and in one particular previous relationship,
• 36:26
  I had a boyfriend who,
• 36:28
  you know, we weren't living together.
• 36:30
  You know, it was like an early, you know,
• 36:32
  early 20s relationship.
• 36:33
  And we earned very different amounts.
• 36:36
  He had an allowance from his parents,
• 36:38
  and I worked full time.
• 36:40
  And I remember one particular conversation
• 36:43
  that drove me so,
• 36:45
  I was so angry about at the time
• 36:48
  when he asked me
• 36:51
  why I had purchased a new phone
• 36:55
  outright.
• 36:56
  And I said,
• 36:57
  well,
• 36:58
  I don't have a phone,
• 36:59
  and I want a phone.
• 37:00
  And I need a phone.
• 37:01
  And I had the money.
• 37:03
  So I bought a phone.
• 37:04
  And I was like, what's it to you?
• 37:05
  And he was like,
• 37:06
  well, I think it's really expensive.
• 37:07
  And I was like,
• 37:08
  well, it's not your money.
• 37:09
  And also,
• 37:10
  I work.
• 37:11
  So I feel like your opinion
• 37:13
  on how I spend my money
• 37:14
  when your money is actually your parents' money
• 37:16
  is zero.
• 37:17
  Like,
• 37:18
  like,
• 37:19
  I am your lane, buddy.
• 37:20
  I am your lane.
• 37:21
  Dude, for me,
• 37:22
  I actually was a bit shocked
• 37:23
  that he had the audacity to question my purchases.
• 37:26
  I was like,
• 37:27
  my friends,
• 37:28
  I think you should just zip up
• 37:30
  and perhaps get a job.
• 37:31
  And that really like bothered me.
• 37:33
  Like, there was lots of other things
• 37:35
  that weren't working in the relationship.
• 37:37
  But I think it was that,
• 37:38
  what it really comes down to is,
• 37:41
  I come from a family,
• 37:42
  and my husband comes from a family
• 37:44
  where like working hard
• 37:45
  and having a really strong work ethic
• 37:47
  was part of the values
• 37:49
  that our families put in us.
• 37:51
  Right?
• 37:52
  You know, being honest,
• 37:53
  having integrity,
• 37:54
  but also going the extra mile
• 37:55
  for the people we love,
• 37:56
  but also for where we want to go in our lives.
• 37:59
  And I think that was actually the red flag.
• 38:01
  It wasn't so much him questioning my money.
• 38:03
  It was the entitlement.
• 38:04
  Right?
• 38:05
  Not to have a job,
• 38:06
  to have an allowance,
• 38:07
  which in your 20s,
• 38:08
  I think is embarrassing.
• 38:09
  Sorry.
• 38:11
  Sorry.
• 38:12
  But it was like,
• 38:14
  I think that mismatch
• 38:15
  in how we had grown up
• 38:17
  that was really the problem.
• 38:18
  And if you had an identified
• 38:20
  that then,
• 38:21
  when you maybe had started a family
• 38:23
  or when you're trying to
• 38:24
  still be young as your children,
• 38:26
  or you're starting to pay for big ticket items,
• 38:29
  like that would have just
• 38:31
  severed away and got to a point
• 38:33
  where it was like boiling.
• 38:34
  And he would have very different values
• 38:36
  that he probably wanted to instill
• 38:37
  with his children.
• 38:38
  He probably wanted to give them
• 38:39
  an allowance as well.
• 38:40
  So he made it like,
• 38:41
  yeah, a gosh,
• 38:42
  I can just,
• 38:43
  I can just see it now
• 38:44
  of what would have happened.
• 38:45
  Absolutely.
• 38:46
  Alex, I'm aware
• 38:47
  that you're a lawyer
• 38:48
  and you've gotten a meeting
• 38:49
  in two minutes.
• 38:50
  You need to get on his phone
• 38:51
  and go and not actually do.
• 38:52
  But thank you so much for your time
• 38:53
  and sharing everything.
• 38:54
  It was so epic to meet you.
• 38:55
  And hopefully we can do a part two
• 38:56
  because I think there'd be
• 38:57
  so many more things
• 38:58
  that we can talk about.
• 38:59
  With love to it,
• 39:00
  ladies, Beck, Sophie,
• 39:01
  it's been delightful to meet you both.
• 39:03
  It has.
• 39:04
  Good luck with the rental.
• 39:05
  Oh, bye.
• 39:06
  Oh, bye.
• 39:07
  Oh, bye.
• 39:08
  Thank you.
• 39:09
  Thank you so much for listening
• 39:11
  to Raising the Curve.
• 39:12
  These conversations are designed
• 39:14
  to teach you everything
• 39:15
  that you need to know
• 39:16
  to be better with your money.
• 39:17
  From saving,
• 39:18
  to investing,
• 39:19
  to talking to your friends
• 39:20
  about your salaries.
• 39:21
  And if you liked what you heard,
• 39:23
  we would love it.
• 39:24
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• 39:25
  please.
• 39:26
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• 39:27
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• 39:28
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• 39:29
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• 39:30
  and it would really make our week.
• 39:31
  Oh, yeah.
• 39:32
  Our month.
• 39:33
  Okay.
• 39:34
  Lots of love.
• 39:35
  See you soon.
• 39:36
  Bye.