Latest / Veterinary Ramblings / Ep 14: Special Episode: Mike and Julian Discuss Foraging and Animal Welfare

Transcript

Ep 14: Special Episode: Mike and Julian Discuss Foraging and Animal Welfare · Veterinary Ramblings

• 0:00
  Mike Brampton: To all of our people that are listening and watching us, Ican say,
• 0:05
  Mike Brampton: Good evening, and welcome
• 0:07
  Mike Brampton: to Veterinary Ramblings. My name is Mike Brampton.
• 0:12
  Julian Hoad: And my name is Julian hoad.
• 0:17
  Mike Brampton: And we haven't got a guest tonight have we?
• 0:20
  Julian Hoad: We have no guest. We've been blown out.
• 0:21
  Mike Brampton: Yeah, yeah.
• 0:23
  Julian Hoad: Yeah, our guest would rather spend time with her sheep than with us.
• 0:28
  Mike Brampton: That's a bit of a giveaway, isn't it?
• 0:30
  Julian Hoad: It is a bit. I won't say any more.
• 0:31
  Mike Brampton: No
• 0:32
  Julian Hoad: we look forward to having her on another day.
• 0:34
  Mike Brampton: Yeah, absolutely. Now, we can't say that. That's that's naughty.
• 0:48
  Mike Brampton: So what else have you been up to dude?
• 0:51
  Julian Hoad: What else? What else?
• 0:52
  Julian Hoad: Not a lot else really. It's been busy at work.
• 0:55
  Julian Hoad: Incredibly busy at the practice. Yeah. Yeah.
• 0:58
  Julian Hoad: I've had some interesting ops in recently, a few PDSA cases have been referred on to me and it's going well, but yeah, we're we're still inundated
• 1:10
  Julian Hoad: Too much work too few people.
• 1:12
  Julian Hoad: Still a few people on furlough, a few people who are vulnerable and can't come back to the practice just yet
• 1:20
  Julian Hoad: And how are you? How things are Thames Medical?
• 1:23
  Mike Brampton: Things picking up slowly but surely.
• 1:25
  Mike Brampton: I think we're back up to about 60% of normal
• 1:29
  Julian Hoad: Great
• 1:30
  Mike Brampton: So not not ideal, but certainly survivable.
• 1:34
  Mike Brampton: Ah, well, what a day. How was your day today?
• 1:38
  Julian Hoad: Yeah, it was a mixed bag. My 13 year old daughter had to go to the orthodontist and it's never a pleasant thing.
• 1:47
  Mike Brampton: That's never a pleasant thing.
• 1:48
  Julian Hoad: But her teeth are all sorted out.
• 1:51
  Mike Brampton: Good!
• 1:54
  Julian Hoad: I did manage to get a very brief forage in, about 20 minutes in the afternoon.
• 1:59
  Mike Brampton: Oh, really?
• 2:01
  Julian Hoad: Found a chicken of the woods.
• 2:02
  Mike Brampton: Oh, really?
• 2:04
  Julian Hoad: Had that for our dinner
• 2:06
  Mike Brampton: Ooo get you!
• 2:09
  Julian Hoad: Yeah. It was very nice. Fried it.
• 2:14
  Mike Brampton: Chicken of the woods?
• 2:17
  Julian Hoad: Laetiporus sulphureus, I believe.
• 2:22
  Mike Brampton: Okay, that's, that's an interesting one.
• 2:25
  Julian Hoad: It relates, I think, to the underside, which obviously its not a guild mushroom.
• 2:31
  Julian Hoad: It's a poured mushroom. And lighty refers to the shape of the pores.
• 2:38
  Mike Brampton: Right, okay.
• 2:40
  Julian Hoad: And sulfurus is because it's bright yellow
• 2:43
  Mike Brampton: I know that this particular mushroom, or this particular fungi
• 2:48
  Julian Hoad: You do, and that's why I mentioned that I was so happy to have found it.
• 2:51
  Mike Brampton: Well, yeah, well, you have to, don't you because you're sort of scrambling to catch up, aren't you, on the whole foraging thing?
• 3:01
  Mike Brampton: Because, in fact, I'll show you, shall I show you a video of this.
• 3:06
  Julian Hoad: That'd be great.
• 3:07
  Mike Brampton: Yeah. Okay. Well, if you bear with me,
• 3:09
  Julian Hoad: I will bear with you.
• 3:11
  Julian Hoad: But the thing I love about the English countryside is about this time of the year, a good 20% of its edible.
• 3:16
  Mike Brampton: Yes, yes. Okay. Well, I'll show you what I got up to just a couple of days ago.
• 3:25
  Julian Hoad: Okay
• 3:25
  Mike Brampton: I will share my screen and show you a brief video here.
• 3:32
  Mike Brampton: Not sure if this sound will come out.
• 3:35
  Mike Brampton: Let's see what happens.
• 3:38
  Mike Brampton: This is me out on my evening walk with, with poppy dog.
• 3:42
  Mike Brampton: So let me play this forwards and 'So out walking with poppy dog before recording the next edition of veterinary ramblings, and we're strolling along and whats this I see?'
• 3:55
  Mike Brampton: 'Whats this?'
• 3:57
  Mike Brampton: 'Could it really be? Could it? '
• 4:01
  Mike Brampton: 'Well, let's go down and have a look.'
• 4:07
  Mike Brampton: Any guesses what that is Julian?
• 4:09
  Julian Hoad: It is exactly what I just had tonight, isn't it?
• 4:13
  Julian Hoad: That's amazing.
• 4:14
  Mike Brampton: 'This is gonna be straightforward. Oh.'
• 4:23
  Mike Brampton: 'One of the great joys of foraging is when you find your chosen forage, it's sometimes not that easy to get to it.'
• 4:37
  Mike Brampton: 'Oh, yes. Here we go. I know what this baby is.'
• 4:41
  Mike Brampton: 'It's gonna get cooked up with garlic butter. Let's see if I can get it off there nice and easy.'
• 4:49
  Mike Brampton: There it is.
• 4:51
  Julian Hoad: That's fantastic. It's a huge one isn't it?
• 4:53
  Mike Brampton: Yeah, it's massive. What we've done is ,I've had some of that freshly fried up with garlic butter, yeah.
• 5:02
  Mike Brampton: And what I've also done is I've cut it into slices, and I've dried it.
• 5:09
  Mike Brampton: And we're storing that for later.
• 5:12
  Julian Hoad: Great. Did it dry well?
• 5:14
  Mike Brampton: I'm not 100% sure, because it's, we thought it was completely dried out, some areas are almost crispy.
• 5:22
  Mike Brampton: It was only on a low heat for a long, long time.
• 5:26
  Mike Brampton: There were a couple of areas that were slightly spongy, but fairly firm.
• 5:32
  Mike Brampton: Popped it into a plastic bag and the next morning we've got water droplets in a plastic bag.
• 5:37
  Mike Brampton: So I think I'm gonna have to re dehydrate
• 5:40
  Julian Hoad: I'd redry it, keep it in a paper bag afterwards.
• 5:45
  Julian Hoad: You could get it in a plastic bag, if you do that use some of those little silicon dry bags you know the ones that come in packaging.
• 5:51
  Mike Brampton: Yeah. I want to steal it because it stinks of mushrooms.
• 5:57
  Julian Hoad: It does, it's quite a quite a strong smell, isn't it?
• 6:01
  Julian Hoad: It tastes, if you fry it, It tastes a little bit like artificial chicken
• 6:09
  Mike Brampton: Some of it did, some of it I found had the texture of chicken, obviously the name chicken of the woods.
• 6:19
  Mike Brampton: Some of it was a bit more like tofu.
• 6:23
  Julian Hoad: Yes, it's very good at absorbing other flavours.
• 6:28
  Mike Brampton: Right
• 6:28
  Julian Hoad: So you can marinate it and stir fry it.
• 6:32
  Mike Brampton: Yeah
• 6:33
  Julian Hoad: I believe if you need your cholesterol lowered then it'll help to lower your cholesterol.
• 6:39
  Julian Hoad: Although of course, we have opinions about that don't we Mike?
• 6:43
  Mike Brampton: We do, we both have opinions about that and oh it looks like...
• 6:47
  Julian Hoad: ...and the ghost has opinions to
• 6:49
  Mike Brampton: The ghost of poppy dog has appeared.
• 6:52
  Julian Hoad: I should say by the way that the people listening to this podcast rather than watching it have just missed Mike getting his legs shredded to buggery.
• 7:01
  Julian Hoad: Whilst walking through a brambly area, to find a really large specimen of a fungus called chicken of the woods or Laetiporus sulphureus, which is absolutely delicious.
• 7:15
  Julian Hoad: You have to cook it if you find it.
• 7:17
  Julian Hoad: You have to cook it because its slightly toxic when eaten raw.
• 7:21
  Julian Hoad: It can give you stomach cramps, bit of diarrhoea and vomiting sometimes, but well worth the hunt.
• 7:27
  Julian Hoad: However, what I'd say is, if you are wanting to forage at all, its a very, very important that if you are foraging at all, please please, please either take someone experienced with you.
• 7:39
  Julian Hoad: Or make sure you can identify the mushroom absolutely perfectly.
• 7:43
  Julian Hoad: Yeah
• 7:43
  Julian Hoad: Because there are certain mushrooms that have really quite nasty, toxic cousins. And they are quite deadly.
• 7:53
  Julian Hoad: So if in doubt, leave it out is my rule.
• 7:56
  Julian Hoad: Jules rules.
• 7:57
  Mike Brampton: I think Jules rules are very good there.
• 7:59
  Mike Brampton: What Yes, what didn't really come over there.
• 8:02
  Mike Brampton: I think if people could see the video, they could obviously see that that was down a very, quite a steep bank. And that bank was full of brambles, stinging nettles and holly leaves.
• 8:14
  Mike Brampton: And as I was just out for a walk with the dog, I've got my T shirt and shorts on.
• 8:20
  Mike Brampton: And my pumps with no socks, but I couldn't resist getting down there too.
• 8:24
  Mike Brampton: Well just in case somebody else saw it.
• 8:26
  Julian Hoad: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. See any other shrooms on your travels?
• 8:30
  Mike Brampton: I did. Actually. Let me see if I can show you this particular one. That's the one that we had.
• 8:41
  Julian Hoad: Yeah, chicken of the woods.
• 8:42
  Mike Brampton: Yep.
• 8:43
  Julian Hoad: There's a similar one called hen of the woods.
• 8:46
  Julian Hoad: Oh, now that's nice.
• 8:48
  Julian Hoad: That's an earth star of some sort, or no it's not, is it?
• 8:53
  Julian Hoad: Or is it a young parasol? Can you see if it had a stem at all?
• 8:57
  Mike Brampton: No, it had no stem.
• 8:59
  Julian Hoad: No? Okay, so that's some little earth ball?
• 9:03
  Mike Brampton: Puffball?
• 9:04
  Julian Hoad: Yeah. And a member of the puffball family. And it's quite
• 9:09
  Mike Brampton: Sorry Julian I wasn't calling you a puffball
• 9:14
  Mike Brampton: I'm saying that I think this particular fungi is a puffball
• 9:18
  Julian Hoad: I thought just because I know a little bit about fungi, no need to taunt me
• 9:23
  Julian Hoad: But no they're beautiful aren't they.
• 9:25
  Julian Hoad: I saw. I don't know if you've seen them around.
• 9:27
  Julian Hoad: And I saw a common sinkhorn today. Which has the amazing scientific name, Phallus impudicus and it is what it sounds like.
• 9:38
  Julian Hoad: So it looks like a knob, basically.
• 9:50
  Julian Hoad: And it stinks. It's smells-
• 9:52
  Mike Brampton: -like a cock.
• 9:54
  Julian Hoad: Absolutely like a cock. Yeah, yeah,
• 9:57
  Mike Brampton: you know, you know we are actually going to get into big trouble with Georgie Hollis, for all of this, don't you?
• 10:02
  Julian Hoad: We are because she wants to be in on this doesnt she
• 10:05
  Mike Brampton: She wants to be in on a foraging one.
• 10:08
  Mike Brampton: And she has said that she can actually come back and record another another show with us.
• 10:16
  Julian Hoad: That's fantastic.
• 10:17
  Julian Hoad: Well, the good news is that we're really very, very early on in the foraging season.
• 10:22
  Julian Hoad: So normally we don't expect to see much until September, October.
• 10:26
  Julian Hoad: We're no no idea what the seasons gonna be like.
• 10:28
  Julian Hoad: It has been such a topsy turvy year. But the good thing is very few people have been out and are going out.
• 10:34
  Julian Hoad: So hopefully lots of shrooms left for us.
• 10:36
  Mike Brampton: Hopefully that'll be the case, if indeed we do actually get a season, because I understand autumns here.
• 10:45
  Mike Brampton: This is a picture of a common stinkhorn, so as you can see, it's sort of very phallic, has a firm, firm white phallic stem with a large bulbous black head.
• 11:01
  Julian Hoad: Yeah, often green. So green, green or black with what looks like a urethral opening, or I believe the common parlance is jap's eye at the end of it, I don't think you can say that can
• 11:01
  Julian Hoad: you?
• 11:14
  Mike Brampton: I'm gonna stop sharing. We can't say that, who do you think you are, Boris?
• 11:24
  Julian Hoad: But I just think fungi are amazing.
• 11:26
  Julian Hoad: You should grow to love them again, because not only can you eat some of them, or poison your relatives with others of them, but we couldn't survive without fungi.
• 11:35
  Julian Hoad: Nothing would be broken down.
• 11:37
  Julian Hoad: Nothing would be degraded and rotten. Half our drugs we couldn't get.
• 11:45
  Julian Hoad: Lovely blue cheese, of course, all blue cheese is blue because of this wonderful fungus Penicillium roqueforti, just a shame actually.
• 11:52
  Julian Hoad: It's all called Penicillium roqueforti, even stilton, which is obviously much better than the rock but no mind.
• 12:09
  Mike Brampton: Other cheeses are available.
• 12:10
  Julian Hoad: Other cheeses are available.
• 12:12
  Mike Brampton: Yeah, like a blue brie for example.
• 12:14
  Julian Hoad: Blue Brie or Cambozola
• 12:17
  Mike Brampton: Indeed.
• 12:19
  Julian Hoad: Blue Vinny?
• 12:22
  Mike Brampton: Yeah.
• 12:23
  Julian Hoad: blue brie barnum
• 12:24
  Mike Brampton: Gorgonzola.
• 12:26
  Julian Hoad: Oh, nice bit of Gorgonzola. Dolcelatte?
• 12:30
  Mike Brampton: Oh my god,
• 12:31
  Julian Hoad: and it's all Penicillium roqueforti
• 12:34
  Mike Brampton: yeah.
• 12:36
  Julian Hoad: We wouldn't really be able to drink our gin, would we? Without funghi
• 12:45
  Mike Brampton: Well, there we go.
• 12:47
  Julian Hoad: Good old brewers yeast.
• 12:50
  Mike Brampton: Brewers yeast?
• 12:51
  Julian Hoad: Yeah, you need a base of alcohol to be able to distil
• 12:55
  Mike Brampton: That's true enough.
• 12:57
  Julian Hoad: Saccharomyces cerevisiae for that. And baker's yeast as well.
• 13:04
  Mike Brampton: Bakers yeast, don't eat bread
• 13:06
  Julian Hoad: So that'll be no good. Forget that.
• 13:10
  Julian Hoad: Have you heard of Mycoremediation?
• 13:14
  Mike Brampton: No, what's Mycoremediation Julian?
• 13:17
  Julian Hoad: Well if you have a toxic spill somewhere and you want to get rid of it,
• 13:21
  Julian Hoad: then you can either dig up the first few inches of the soil to get rid of it or
• 13:28
  Julian Hoad: you can make the toxin soluble and the best way of making it soluble is to put a fungus down that metabolises it or metabolises it into a salt that is then soluble.
• 13:39
  Mike Brampton: This is what they're attempting to do Mauritius at the moment with the with the oil?
• 13:45
  Julian Hoad: Yeah.
• 13:46
  Mike Brampton: Using fungi to try and break down the oil deposits. That's a disaster isn't it.
• 13:51
  Julian Hoad: It really is, really big, a big cock up there.
• 13:55
  Mike Brampton: What I can't understand is, in that particular instance, they moved the vessel closer to the land so that some of the crew could get internet connection.
• 14:10
  Mike Brampton: You'd of thought on a vessel that's 300 metres long and 100 metres wide that they'd have their own internet and their own satellite connections?
• 14:20
  Mike Brampton: But yeah, it's a little bit like. theres a new opencast mine they're hoping to open in Australia called the Adani mine.
• 14:32
  Mike Brampton: And the direct route out is for these super coal tankers, super coal ships, to cut a path straight through the Great Barrier Reef.
• 14:49
  Mike Brampton: Like the Great Barrier Reef hasn't had enough problems without putting 3000 tonnes of coal straight through it on these major massive things.
• 15:01
  Mike Brampton: And yeah, you might catch me on some of this tonight.
• 15:09
  Mike Brampton: I've been looking for a bit of a rant tonight Julian.
• 15:11
  Julian Hoad: Have we not done enough?
• 15:14
  Julian Hoad: We should, can we not badger the politicians?
• 15:17
  Mike Brampton: Don't start me on badgers.
• 15:19
  Julian Hoad: What badgers?
• 15:20
  Mike Brampton: Yeah.
• 15:21
  Julian Hoad: Oh, no, we'll cut that conversation shall we, for a start? To be heard no more tonight.
• 15:28
  Mike Brampton: Well are you sure? Because I've seen some figures from DEFRA recently.
• 15:32
  Julian Hoad: Yeah. Tell me about these figures, Mike, because actually, it's a complete disgrace, isn't it?
• 15:36
  Mike Brampton: Tell you about the figures?
• 15:37
  Mike Brampton: Well, there's a whole raft of them. I think it's a sort of, its governmental cock up after governmental cock up. Kent-
• 15:46
  Julian Hoad: Hold on.
• 15:47
  Julian Hoad: This is impossible isn't it? How can the government cock things up? Is it Dominic Cummings in charge?
• 15:53
  Mike Brampton: God knows.
• 15:55
  Julian Hoad: Are they badgers or zebras, I'll have to drive to Barnard Castle to find out.
• 16:03
  Mike Brampton: Quite possibly. You'll love this one.
• 16:06
  Mike Brampton: I mean, this is appropriate for COVID.
• 16:09
  Mike Brampton: Obviously, we have a problem with TB in our cattle herds.
• 16:15
  Julian Hoad: Yeah
• 16:15
  Mike Brampton: Not disputing that. We've got TB in our cattle herds.
• 16:20
  Mike Brampton: That is a readily transmissible disease. It's a problem.
• 16:24
  Mike Brampton: And we should do what we can to eradicate it. Unfortunately, poor old Brock the Badger
• 16:32
  Julian Hoad: Our largest predator, well second largest, I think Prince Andrew is slightly bigger.
• 16:37
  Julian Hoad: Anyway, carry on.
• 16:38
  Mike Brampton: I think so. Yeah.
• 16:40
  Mike Brampton: So Brock has caught the blame for this.
• 16:42
  Mike Brampton: And we're on a course to systematically cull or kill or slaughter as many badgers as we can to try and prevent the spread of TB.
• 16:55
  Mike Brampton: Which, for the vets in the UK that listening to this, this is not different. This is familiar territory.
• 17:03
  Julian Hoad: Well it's actually been going on since 1973.
• 17:07
  Mike Brampton: Is has
• 17:07
  Julian Hoad: Because of government policy then?
• 17:10
  Mike Brampton: Yeah, but it's accelerated recently hasn't it
• 17:15
  Mike Brampton: So you look at Kent, Kent, to our listeners and viewers from other areas, like the United States, Kent is known as the breadbasket of the UK. This is an area that's high in arable land, and quite high
• 17:15
  Mike Brampton: in
• 17:35
  Julian Hoad: That's land that's actually farmed by Arabs.
• 17:39
  Mike Brampton: No, it's not
• 17:42
  Mike Brampton: So Kent is virtually TB free. There has been no outbreak, no recorded cases of TB in Kent, in the county of Kent, for a long, long time.
• 17:57
  Mike Brampton: So what has happened is that a number of people got together and set up a vaccination programme, fully funded, to capture and safely vaccinate the Badgers against TB
• 18:17
  Julian Hoad: seems like a good idea.
• 18:19
  Mike Brampton: Except DEFRA blocked it because there was no incidence of TB in Kent. Therefore, there was no requirement for a vaccination.
• 18:33
  Julian Hoad: But surely, lack of evidence isn't evidence of lack there.
• 18:38
  Julian Hoad: So. And there's also the risk that if they cull badgers in adjacent areas, then badgers in Kent will cross over backwards and forwards.
• 18:51
  Julian Hoad: Yeah, and increase the risk of spread of TB into badgers in Kent.
• 18:56
  Mike Brampton: Yep. And if a farmer happens to move cattle into that area, that is infected with TB, then the Badgers could catch the TB from that cattle start spreading around in the county as well.
• 19:10
  Mike Brampton: Yeah, absolutely.
• 19:12
  Mike Brampton: So that's Kent. So are you familiar with what's happened in Cumbria, Julian?
• 19:17
  Julian Hoad: I read about it earlier on, but do refresh the audience's. Oh, tell the audiences.
• 19:24
  Julian Hoad: Listen, listen,
• 19:25
  Mike Brampton: I'll tell the audience.
• 19:28
  Julian Hoad: Both of them mind
• 19:29
  Mike Brampton: What's happened in Cumbria is that a number of badgers have been culled and at autopsy, the strain of TB has been identified.
• 19:39
  Mike Brampton: And the strain of TB that has been identified in Cumbrian badges is from Northern Ireland.
• 19:47
  Mike Brampton: Now, again, for listeners who may not be intimately aware as to the geography of the United Kingdom, and these wonderful set to the isles in which we inhabit.
• 20:00
  Mike Brampton: Northern Ireland is separated from mainland England. You're gonna draw a map?
• 20:07
  Julian Hoad: No, I was gonna draw a picture of a badger.
• 20:10
  Mike Brampton: You draw a picture of a badger, shame we haven't got Georgie Hollis on tonight, isn't it because she could have knocked up a picture of a badger like that!
• 20:17
  Mike Brampton: Northern Ireland is separated from mainland UK, which is where Cumbria is, by the Irish Sea.
• 20:26
  Mike Brampton: Which is, depending on which ferry you catch, either a seven hour or a three hour ferry to get between the two. So what's happened here is obviously an infected badger.
• 20:43
  Julian Hoad: That's a Badger. There we go.
• 20:47
  Mike Brampton: Yeah.
• 20:48
  Julian Hoad: Yeah, exactly what they look like.
• 20:52
  Mike Brampton: Right. Thanks for that, Julian.
• 20:53
  Mike Brampton: Yes, Julian's put up on screen there a picture of a tapir with some stripes on it.
• 21:04
  Julian Hoad: It's a baby tapir, actually, I can draw those, can't draw badges, but they're very similar.
• 21:10
  Mike Brampton: I think most of our audience would know what a badger looks like.
• 21:13
  Mike Brampton: Beautiful little creature with dirty great big claws. And long snouts with black and white stripes down the snout.
• 21:19
  Mike Brampton: So, so yeah, so obviously a badger managed to get onto a ferry in Northern Ireland and cross the Irish Sea and infected all of the cattle in Cumbria.
• 21:36
  Julian Hoad: Or, or there's another way
• 21:39
  Mike Brampton: Is there?
• 21:40
  Julian Hoad: and I've modified my picture to show you what could actually have happened.
• 21:43
  Mike Brampton: Oh, go on
• 21:44
  Julian Hoad: So, if the Badger had worn scuba gear...
• 21:48
  Mike Brampton: right.
• 21:49
  Julian Hoad: Yep. Bubbles come out of its nose there.
• 21:52
  Mike Brampton: Alright. Okay.
• 21:54
  Julian Hoad: Yeah. Diving mask. And there's the tank there. Little fins on his feet you see.
• 21:59
  Julian Hoad: So if it had done that,
• 22:01
  Mike Brampton: yep,
• 22:02
  Julian Hoad: Of course it would have struggled because you should not scuba dive with TB.
• 22:07
  Mike Brampton: You shouldn't because it's going to cause a problem with your breathing.
• 22:10
  Julian Hoad: It is.
• 22:12
  Mike Brampton: Yeah, so that's it. So what's happened in Cumbria is that the naughty badgers have have smuggled themselves aboard a ferry and come across to Cumbria from Northern Ireland to infect all
• 22:12
  Mike Brampton: the cattle.
• 22:26
  Mike Brampton: Yeah, either that or some farmers in Cumbria have imported some beef, infected beef cattle, from Northern Ireland and introduced TB themselves.
• 22:41
  Julian Hoad: Yeah, what's the likeliest thing?
• 22:47
  Mike Brampton: I did see some midget submarines being used by Colombians to smuggle drugs into America. Yeah, what what is the likeliest thing? As Julian waves his picture of his hand drawn badger
• 22:47
  Mike Brampton: wearing scuba gear.
• 23:06
  Mike Brampton: Yeah, I think I think we better let it rest there. I think probably most of the audience are sick to the back teeth. We've probably lost all of our National Farmers Union viewers right now.
• 23:15
  Julian Hoad: We have, and actually farmers are doing well in a very, very poor climate, economically.
• 23:21
  Julian Hoad: With no government help whatsoever. We should support our farmers.
• 23:25
  Julian Hoad: There are a few farmers, like few of any sort that flout the rules, and it's for those that the majority must pay.
• 23:33
  Julian Hoad: However, the farmers, farmers thank you so much for doing a brilliant job.
• 23:39
  Mike Brampton: I'll raise a glass to that, I would feel a little bit happier with the NFU, the National Farmers Union and DEFRA able to get their act together and actually educate the farmers in
• 23:39
  Mike Brampton: biosecurity a little bit more.
• 23:56
  Mike Brampton: I think a lot of the guys are raised born and bred in the country, they work hard every day, often up before dawn and back to their houses late after after dusk.
• 24:08
  Mike Brampton: They do a grand job. And it's not necessarily their fault that they don't necessarily understand the infectious disease transmission.
• 24:19
  Mike Brampton: I mean, look, look how we're struggling with COVID.
• 24:21
  Julian Hoad: I imagine farmers getting the same sort of advice as we are during COVID, they've been told don't import your cow from Ireland.
• 24:30
  Julian Hoad: Unless you want to import your cattle from Ireland, in which case import your cattle from Ireland but don't use any oaoerwork unless you want to use paperwork.
• 24:37
  Mike Brampton: Yes.
• 24:38
  Julian Hoad: Yeah.
• 24:39
  Mike Brampton: Yeah, absolutely.
• 24:40
  Julian Hoad: So what it comes down to really, is the government's feeding us yet again, isn't it?
• 24:48
  Julian Hoad: We're quite fired up. Fact is, we like badges and we don't want them needlessly destroyed.
• 24:53
  Julian Hoad: Why not vaccinate them instead its cheaper?
• 24:55
  Mike Brampton: It's cheaper. It's a lot easier and it keeps British wildlife thriving.
• 25:01
  Mike Brampton: Why isn't their space for British Wildlife as well as everything else?
• 25:06
  Julian Hoad: If you do see any wild pangolins in England, don't eat them. The scales didn't work by the way.
• 25:13
  Julian Hoad: So scales have absolutely no medical or health benefit to anyone other than pangolins.
• 25:21
  Mike Brampton: Spooky that isn't it
• 25:22
  Julian Hoad: They find them rather useful I believe
• 25:24
  Mike Brampton: It's the same with rhinoceroses I understand.
• 25:28
  Julian Hoad: Yeah, yeah. rhinoceros horn doesn't give you the Phallus impudicus
• 25:33
  Mike Brampton: and shark fin...
• 25:36
  Julian Hoad: Yes.
• 25:39
  Mike Brampton: Did you know that it's still legal, whilst you've got me on my animal welfare trip tonight, did you know that it is actually still legal to import 20 kilos of shark fins in your
• 25:39
  Mike Brampton: suitcase?
• 25:55
  Julian Hoad: No, 20 kilos!
• 25:57
  Mike Brampton: 20 kilos of sharkfin. You probably wouldn't.
• 26:01
  Mike Brampton: But the bottom line is that I could quite legally bring back 20 kilos of sharkfin in my suitcase, were I to choose to do so.
• 26:15
  Mike Brampton: It is still legal to do that in this country.
• 26:18
  Julian Hoad: Why is it still legal? Funny loophole, isn't it?
• 26:20
  Mike Brampton: I have no idea. There's actually there's current petition, UK government petition, that's open.
• 26:28
  Mike Brampton: In fact, I think what we should do is I will show you how to get onto that. So that people can register their disgust with the UK Government for keeping that particular loophole open.
• 26:42
  Julian Hoad: Yes. I saw a photo a couple of weeks back of a shark fin processing plant in China.
• 26:54
  Mike Brampton: Yeah.
• 26:55
  Julian Hoad: And there were thousands upon thousands of sharks that just had their dorsal fins cut off, their petrol fins.
• 27:07
  Julian Hoad: And they were just flung away.
• 27:10
  Julian Hoad: They didn't want the rest of them.
• 27:12
  Julian Hoad: Yeah, and and sharks are amazing creatures. Absolutely incredible.
• 27:18
  Julian Hoad: One of the oldest Phylogenetically, one of the oldest species of fish.
• 27:24
  Mike Brampton: I think again, there's seems to be this mental block that our human race have that, top and bottom of this is we are apex predators, ourselves.
• 27:38
  Mike Brampton: But there is plenty of room for other apex predators on the planet.
• 27:43
  Mike Brampton: And in fact, the balance of nature requires that there is an apex predator.
• 27:49
  Julian Hoad: Yes. Yeah.
• 27:50
  Mike Brampton: Was it Yellowstone, they reintroduced the wolves?
• 27:54
  Julian Hoad: Yeah. Yeah. They've reintroduced quite a few things, actually in Yellowstone, and they've always seen huge geographic and environmental changes only
• 28:04
  Mike Brampton: for the better.
• 28:05
  Julian Hoad: Yeah, yeah. By reintroducing wolves, they're able to cull certain deer populations that we're overeating some shrubs.
• 28:14
  Julian Hoad: And because those shrubs were able to survive for longer, I don't know, I'm misremembering a lot of it, but it changed the course-
• 28:22
  Mike Brampton: -It changed the total ecology of the whole area. As I recall, I can't remember exactly what that was, but it was by the reintroduction of wolves.
• 28:32
  Mike Brampton: The shark is the wolf of the sea.
• 28:34
  Julian Hoad: It is, it is.
• 28:36
  Mike Brampton: I was privileged enough to dive with great whites in Africa.
• 28:41
  Julian Hoad: Were you, fantastic.
• 28:43
  Mike Brampton: Yeah, it was a privilege and call it naivety or whatever it is, we are not on their menu.
• 28:51
  Mike Brampton: The sharks that that were there, we were just down from what was known as Shark Alley, which is a narrow file of rocks, and at low tide, the rocks are out of the water.
• 29:09
  Mike Brampton: At high tide, there's very little rock out in the water, but all of the seals beach on that area, and seals breed. There's a lot of kelp beds around there.
• 29:21
  Mike Brampton: And so it's a massive seal breeding colony with this narrow run between and the seals will go through the kelp beds from one rock to the other.
• 29:32
  Mike Brampton: It's like a canal cut between the these these rocks.
• 29:37
  Mike Brampton: And it's known as shark alley. So there are a lot of great whites in there because that's what they do. They eat seals.
• 29:45
  Mike Brampton: And I was diving not far from there. And we were able to lure a number of great whites in and around. They were not interested. They, It was almost like 'oh look, there's another human in the water'
• 30:01
  Julian Hoad: complete disinterest.
• 30:03
  Mike Brampton: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was a little bit slimmer than I am today, but
• 30:12
  Julian Hoad: Oh, they might change their minds now.
• 30:15
  Mike Brampton: Look at the blubber on that one.
• 30:25
  Julian Hoad: white sharks in Malaysia. gorgeous, beautiful. So the water so
• 30:32
  Mike Brampton: Oh, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, I've dropped down on onto blacktip reef sharks before now and doing sort of freediving stuff. And it's, it's just a quick flick of the tail, isn't it? And
• 30:32
  Mike Brampton: they've gone. Hmm. They are out of there. Very quick, even even with the best visibility. So where did he go? He knows
• 31:04
  Mike Brampton: So marine biology was which of your degrees Julian?
• 31:08
  Julian Hoad: The first one
• 31:09
  Mike Brampton: That was the first one was it, marine biology?
• 31:13
  Julian Hoad: We do as a species, we do try and see what we can destroy, what we can bring to the brink of extinction and beyond, by our by our greed.
• 31:29
  Julian Hoad: Although interesting book I was reading, Sapiens by Noah.
• 31:38
  Julian Hoad: An excellent book, where he says that actually, you could say that wheat is the most successful creature,
• 31:51
  Julian Hoad: the most successful organism,
• 31:54
  Julian Hoad: because it's managed to convince humans to grow it everywhere,
• 31:59
  Julian Hoad: and has spread from a tiny, insignificant weed to the most numerous plant on the planet.
• 32:09
  Mike Brampton: Right? Well, surely wheat is a selectively bred grass.
• 32:15
  Julian Hoad: Mm hmm. It is. But has, you look at it from a different spectrum and say, has somehow the wheat favoured its own worth genetically to become successful?
• 32:33
  Mike Brampton: I would argue against that, on the basis that that is pure luck. And it's like the pure luck that you and I experience, the fact that we have been born in a temperate climate on an
• 32:33
  Mike Brampton: island that has facilitated the British rise through history and the development on the backs of slaves, the Empire and facilitated our rape of the world.
• 33:08
  Mike Brampton: And then, because we were so powerful, we were able to stop other buggers from doing it as well.
• 33:12
  Julian Hoad: It's true. Yeah, yeah.
• 33:14
  Mike Brampton: But that's luck, isn't it? We happen to have been born here.
• 33:18
  Julian Hoad: It is. It is luck.
• 33:20
  Julian Hoad: And a thousand years ago, people of the Mongol Empire, were saying the same thing, 'Aren't we incredibly lucky to be born within the catchment area of Genghis Khan, who has now made our people vastly
• 33:20
  Julian Hoad: more successful.'
• 33:38
  Julian Hoad: 'We now don't have to scrape around for living but we get slaves to do it for us.'
• 33:43
  Mike Brampton: He did that by unifying tribes.
• 33:45
  Julian Hoad: He did. Yeah.
• 33:46
  Mike Brampton: He brought together the Mongol peoples who were divisive and divided into family tribe units, wasn't it?
• 33:56
  Mike Brampton: So he brought them together and with the the advent of the bow, and the utilization of the pony, was able to unify a massive nomadic army.
• 34:13
  Julian Hoad: Yes. And he made these amazing bows which were not by metallic, but by different tensile strengths of wood and hide, and so they're able to be pulled to a much greater tensile strength,
• 34:13
  Julian Hoad: or pulling strength, than a single species of wood would have been able to
• 34:32
  Mike Brampton: I have one
• 34:33
  Julian Hoad: Have you? Wow! How did you get that? Did you go to Mongolia?
• 34:41
  Mike Brampton: I had made for me.
• 34:44
  Julian Hoad: Wow.
• 34:48
  Mike Brampton: Before you get get me sharing my knowledge of toxophily, which is the proper name for archery, Sapiens is a book by Yuval Noah Harare
• 35:02
  Julian Hoad: Thank you very much, I knew there was a Noah in there somewhere. Yuval Noah Harare.
• 35:06
  Mike Brampton: Yeah.
• 35:06
  Julian Hoad: Excellent book, very, very well researched
• 35:09
  Mike Brampton: sapiens, a brief history of humankind.
• 35:13
  Julian Hoad: And it covers everything and includes empire building and empire destruction within it.
• 35:18
  Mike Brampton: Alright.
• 35:19
  Julian Hoad: So it covers everywhere from, from our partial parents, the Neanderthals all the way through to the modern day life.
• 35:31
  Mike Brampton: Right. Okay. Very interesting. Sounds like a good book to actually look up.
• 35:36
  Julian Hoad: Fingers crossed.
• 35:37
  Mike Brampton: Yeah, That's a point, I forgotten about a meeting I had this morning.
• 35:41
  Julian Hoad: Oh, yes.
• 35:42
  Mike Brampton: Yeah, you'd probably quite like this one.
• 35:45
  Mike Brampton: I had a meeting with an old colleague of mine, who I've worked with, on and off for probably about 15-16 years.
• 35:55
  Mike Brampton: And he's now involved in a company that not only scavenges anaesthetic gas, it recycles it.
• 36:12
  Julian Hoad: I read something about that. I don't know whether it was his company. But I read something about the idea of that.
• 36:19
  Julian Hoad: So they they filter it and scavenge it.
• 36:22
  Mike Brampton: Yeah.
• 36:23
  Julian Hoad: And reclaim the isoflow
• 36:26
  Mike Brampton: They reclaim the unused Isoflurane or whatever is in there. And it doesn't matter whether it's mixed or not.
• 36:36
  Mike Brampton: So you can put holophane, ISO, sivo in there.
• 36:40
  Mike Brampton: So you run that through your patients. Obviously, patients are breathing that out.
• 36:44
  Mike Brampton: They will scavenge that. So it doesn't go into the atmosphere.
• 36:47
  Julian Hoad: Yeah.
• 36:48
  Mike Brampton: And then they can reclaim it. And as you've probably only used, I don't know, I don't know exactly what the, the metabolic utilisation of any of the drugs particularly is, but let's say
• 36:48
  Mike Brampton: patient has used 30%,
• 37:02
  Julian Hoad: Well its much lower than that. And it's very, very low.
• 37:05
  Mike Brampton: Well, it is low depending on the agent. And depending on whether the scavenging, bear in mind, that your patients taking on board and then waking them up, they've still carrying a load
• 37:05
  Mike Brampton: on board.
• 37:18
  Mike Brampton: So recovery catches out, which they can also scavenge in select areas, mainly on the human side, not on the veterinary side.
• 37:29
  Mike Brampton: And so to a certain extent, there will be an element of loss in the veterinary area, because our patients are recovering in recovery area. And they can't scavenge that.
• 37:40
  Mike Brampton: But they can scavenge what's not being utilised on the fresh gas flow and the patient.
• 37:46
  Julian Hoad: For an environmental point of view thats incredible, isn't it?
• 37:50
  Mike Brampton: Its massive.
• 37:52
  Mike Brampton: We had an exploratory meeting this morning because as you know, I'm very keen on climate change in controlling climate change.
• 37:59
  Mike Brampton: One of the figures that came out was that the veterinary world, in the UK, is responsible for 30% of anaesthetic gas pollution in the UK.
• 38:14
  Julian Hoad: Really?
• 38:18
  Mike Brampton: So if you can see that there are nominally 4000-4500 veterinary operating theatres working each day.
• 38:29
  Julian Hoad: Yeah.
• 38:30
  Mike Brampton: And there are probably, I wouldn't like to think, how many human operating theatres operating all day, every day.
• 38:43
  Julian Hoad: Yeah
• 38:43
  Mike Brampton: The veterinary world is producing 30% of that pollution.
• 38:47
  Julian Hoad: That's not good is it?
• 38:48
  Mike Brampton: It's not good at all. But, so we had an exploratory meeting and it's very positive.
• 38:56
  Mike Brampton: The technology they're using is incredibly simple. It's just fabulous.
• 39:05
  Julian Hoad: They've got trained goblins going *huff*
• 39:10
  Mike Brampton: No, they haven't, they're scavenging the gas, store it in a container that gets shipped back to their recycling plant.
• 39:20
  Mike Brampton: So the the anaesthetic agent itself is extracted from the carrier medium.
• 39:28
  Mike Brampton: Then those anaesthetic agents are separated into their base nature.
• 39:34
  Mike Brampton: So it's not just a bottle of Isoflurane and Halothane. They can separate that out.
• 39:40
  Mike Brampton: And then they're working on the logistics of, does that get sold as a bottle?
• 39:47
  Mike Brampton: Or does that get recycled back to the place that it originated from?
• 39:52
  Mike Brampton: So we're looking at that and it was good meeting, I was pleased to, I'm looking forward to working with him.
• 40:01
  Julian Hoad: I'd be interested to hear how that goes, that's amazing, fantastic idea.
• 40:05
  Mike Brampton: It's a brilliant idea.
• 40:07
  Mike Brampton: And I think, well, it fits hand in glove with a couple of my pet topics,
• 40:13
  Mike Brampton: like using appropriate tidal volumes,
• 40:16
  Mike Brampton: therefore using appropriate minute volumes,
• 40:19
  Mike Brampton: therefore, using appropriate fresh gas flow period for that particular patient, which as you know, is a is a particular bugbear or thing of mine.
• 40:31
  Julian Hoad: We're using, according to the veterinary textbooks, flow rates are much too high, many volumes that are much too high.
• 40:37
  Mike Brampton: Yeah. between 100 and 200% too high.
• 40:43
  Julian Hoad: And so there's a risk of injury to the the patient's respiratory system.
• 40:49
  Julian Hoad: There's a waste of raw materials.
• 40:52
  Julian Hoad: And there's an environmental cost secondary of waste effluent.
• 40:59
  Mike Brampton: Absolutely. Of course, the the other add in to that, is that we want to do all of this safely.
• 41:08
  Mike Brampton: So we need to be able to monitor our patients appropriately and safely. And that's obviously the other area that I'm very keen on, in, in changing the way that we look and accept the the numbers that
• 41:08
  Mike Brampton: we get, particularly on our smaller, more vulnerable patients.
• 41:27
  Mike Brampton: So it's all part of this sort of big thing that's happening, it's, it's, I think, I've got to thank COVID for giving me the time to actually step back and look and think through all of these aspects
• 41:27
  Mike Brampton: and how they fit together.
• 41:46
  Julian Hoad: And think what's important to you, as a company owner, as an anaesthetics
• 41:54
  Mike Brampton: As a person, for me.
• 41:55
  Julian Hoad: Yeah
• 41:56
  Mike Brampton: I'm quite happy to make that personal. You know, it's personal to me.
• 42:02
  Mike Brampton: And, obviously, I'm lucky enough, I've got a team that follow through with that and their interests are aligned with all of that sort of stuff.
• 42:10
  Mike Brampton: So, all we got to do is rewrite all of the veterinary anaesthesia textbooks.
• 42:17
  Julian Hoad: Right, let's start.
• 42:20
  Mike Brampton: Ah,
• 42:24
  Mike Brampton: We'll get there in the end, I'm sure.
• 42:26
  Julian Hoad: I'm sure we will.
• 42:27
  Mike Brampton: And I'm sure I'll be remembered as some some mad ranty old bloke,
• 42:32
  Julian Hoad: but at least at least you'll be remembered.
• 42:35
  Mike Brampton: His strange ideas...
• 42:38
  Julian Hoad: Didn't he do some weird podcast thing with that fat bald bloke with the funny shirts.
• 42:43
  Mike Brampton: Yeah, I remember, Veterinary Ramblings or something?
• 42:47
  Julian Hoad: Yeah. Was it? Yes.
• 42:49
  Mike Brampton: Madness.
• 42:50
  Julian Hoad: Cor, they were a bunch of pillocks, going on about badgers and dominic cummings all the time
• 42:58
  Mike Brampton: I thought I told you that story.
• 43:00
  Julian Hoad: No you haven't, that's incredible. That's amazing.
• 43:06
  Julian Hoad: I've done a CPD certificate tonight.
• 43:08
  Mike Brampton: How have you done? what just now?
• 43:12
  Julian Hoad: Yeah. Earlier, not just now, earlier. So here we go
• 43:17
  Mike Brampton: share share.
• 43:19
  Julian Hoad: I've got a picture of you on the front.
• 43:29
  Mike Brampton: Oh, as we often do, for those of you that can't see on the video, Julian has done a beautiful CPD certificate outlined in orange, available for download.
• 43:42
  Mike Brampton: So you can download it, print it off and present it to your governing body to show that you have listened to an hour's worth of CPD from me and him, the teachers, and for some reason the centre of
• 43:42
  Mike Brampton: the-
• 43:57
  Mike Brampton: -Yeah you need peek around the corner, he's peeking around the corner of the certificate right now.
• 44:03
  Mike Brampton: That looks like one of Phil Lhermettes beautiful photographs of a gorilla
• 44:10
  Julian Hoad: It's one of mine. I took it.
• 44:12
  Mike Brampton: Really?
• 44:13
  Julian Hoad: I took it. Yeah.
• 44:14
  Mike Brampton: Really?
• 44:18
  Julian Hoad: This was a gorilla at Monkey World, I believe?
• 44:27
  Mike Brampton: Oh, right.
• 44:31
  Mike Brampton: Is this a segway to a story of Mike anaesthetising chimpanzees at monkey world?
• 44:38
  Julian Hoad: It wasn't, but actually, now you mentioned it. Do you want to tell us that one because it's great.
• 44:45
  Mike Brampton: I'll tell you the take home I got from that. Very privileged to spend some time down at Monkey World-
• 44:50
  Julian Hoad: -Oh before you do that, we haven't completed the CPD!
• 44:54
  Mike Brampton: All right. Okay.
• 44:57
  Mike Brampton: Okay, so quickly pause for reflection.
• 45:00
  Mike Brampton: So because, that's not a part of all CPD, as we've learned recently, only with the RCVS, only with the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons in the UK, that you have to actually reflect on the CPD that
• 45:00
  Mike Brampton: you have either given or partaken of.
• 45:22
  Mike Brampton: But as we're in the UK, despite the fact the majority of our audience are in America
• 45:31
  Mike Brampton: and yeah, let's...
• 45:35
  Julian Hoad: ...reflect on that.
• 45:36
  Mike Brampton: Quickly reflect on our urm...
• 45:53
  Mike Brampton: That's a lot of reflection for tonight.
• 45:55
  Mike Brampton: Julian, Julian, Julian!
• 45:57
  Julian Hoad: Yes. Reflecting. Reflected. Yep. Yeah.
• 46:05
  Mike Brampton: You weren't the only one that was up at six o'clock this morning.
• 46:10
  Julian Hoad: Anyway, tell us about about the chimps at a Monkey World.
• 46:16
  Mike Brampton: The chimps at monkey world.
• 46:18
  Mike Brampton: I've got lots of stories from the chimps at monkey world. The whole facility there is absolutely amazing.
• 46:26
  Mike Brampton: If you get a chance to go down, its near Swanage Direction? Wimbledon, that sort of area?
• 46:26
  Julian Hoad: It is incredible.
• 46:33
  Mike Brampton: Yeah, Dorchester? Wimborne? Bovingdon?
• 46:40
  Mike Brampton: I'll tell you what, what makes a great day out if you've got young children, and particularly boys, is a visit to Monkey World.
• 46:49
  Mike Brampton: And just across the road. It's the Bobbington Tank Museum.
• 46:52
  Julian Hoad: Yeah. Brilliant. Yeah. I've got two daughters. I've never been to Tank Museum.
• 46:59
  Mike Brampton: Why not?
• 47:00
  Julian Hoad: I'll say, shall we go to the Tank Museum in the afternoon? 'Hmm, let's go get some ice cream.'
• 47:06
  Mike Brampton: Oh,
• 47:09
  Julian Hoad: If anyone wants to go to the Tank Museum with me. Drop a note...
• 47:15
  Mike Brampton: I'll go down the Tank Museum with you.
• 47:17
  Julian Hoad: Okay, we'll go
• 47:18
  Mike Brampton: So fabulous facility.
• 47:21
  Mike Brampton: And very privileged to spend some time down there.
• 47:25
  Mike Brampton: But the take home message I got, apart from, I think her name is Emilia, one of the the matriarchal chimps, who I think liked me a lot
• 47:44
  Mike Brampton: Was that, if you give a chimpanzee a bicycle, the first day it will ride it, the second day, it will take it apart to find out how it works.
• 47:59
  Mike Brampton: As a species, they are phenomenally inquisitive, and incredibly intelligent.
• 48:08
  Mike Brampton: And I have to say that in my career, I've spent time working in a number of environments, and working with the chimps was probably slightly scarier than a visit to broadmore.
• 48:28
  Mike Brampton: And a visit to Brixton.
• 48:32
  Mike Brampton: Both of those, for people who don't know, are Her Majesty's institutions, one for the criminally insane.
• 48:41
  Mike Brampton: And the other one for just the criminal on remand.
• 48:45
  Mike Brampton: And the chimpanzees, once you get back of house as a stranger, I found equally scary.
• 48:55
  Julian Hoad: Really.
• 48:56
  Mike Brampton: Yeah. And I need to look at a photograph, I'll share a photograph with you of some wild apes that I was lucky enough to meet near Victoria Falls in Zambia.
• 49:13
  Mike Brampton: And you'll see how close I am to them as wild apes.
• 49:19
  Mike Brampton: I wouldn't do that with a chimpanzee at all. No way.
• 49:25
  Mike Brampton: They're quite scary creatures. And I have a healthy respect stroke fear for chimpanzees.
• 49:33
  Mike Brampton: They'll rip your bloody arm off Mate.
• 49:38
  Julian Hoad: We;; they're unpredictable.
• 49:41
  Julian Hoad: I say that as a layperson, but from what I read, gorillas, if you establish a connection and are reasonable enough and slow enough and steady enough about getting to know them, then you can be fairly
• 49:41
  Julian Hoad: sure that they would accept you.
• 50:00
  Julian Hoad: With chimpanzees, you can do that for six months. And then the next time you go in there, they rip your head off. Yeah.
• 50:05
  Mike Brampton: Yeah, something like that.
• 50:07
  Mike Brampton: Although, the keepers would probably dispute that, because they they are spending every day with with a certain family group.
• 50:16
  Mike Brampton: And they get to read the mannerisms and, and know what's going on, which is, how I got to know that Amelia probably liked me a lot.
• 50:27
  Mike Brampton: Because one of the keepers told me not because of
• 50:30
  Julian Hoad: It's because of the letters she sent you
• 50:35
  Mike Brampton: Yeah, she's been emailing me ever since and its a nightmare.
• 50:38
  Mike Brampton: And as for text messages. Well. How she got my mobile number. I have no idea.
• 50:46
  Julian Hoad: The clever little things these
• 50:48
  Mike Brampton: Incredible stuff.
• 50:50
  Mike Brampton: So okay, so we've done our CPD certificate. Have you got a joke for tonight?
• 50:57
  Julian Hoad: Well, I have, I had a choice of jokes. One i thought was quite rude.
• 51:03
  Mike Brampton: Is this at my expense?
• 51:07
  Julian Hoad: No, It's for free.
• 51:08
  Mike Brampton: Oh Thank you.
• 51:11
  Julian Hoad: So I thought though, I'd hone it down to one which is on the subject of, of species extinction, which we've touched on earlier this evening, and we're very good at and it's
• 51:25
  Mike Brampton: like speed skiiers, they're going extinct as well for some reason.
• 51:30
  Julian Hoad: It's about the man who was up in court for eating one of the last black rhinos.
• 51:41
  Julian Hoad: And he made a very impassioned plea in his defence saying, 'I was separated from the other tourists in my group and left alone in the African belt for days, I ate nothing.'
• 52:01
  Julian Hoad: 'I managed to drink dew water off the leaves in the morning, and forage for nuts and berries.'
• 52:10
  Julian Hoad: 'And I didn't know whether any nuts or berries I had would be my last. I didn't know if they were poisonous or not.'
• 52:15
  Julian Hoad: 'And I saw this elderly weak Rhino and my hunger overcame me.'
• 52:21
  Julian Hoad: 'And I thought, I know that it's one of the last rhinos in the area. And I know, however, that he's clearly weak and ill and may not survive for long anyway.'
• 52:35
  Julian Hoad: 'And I thought, I'm human. I have a greater right to life than this Rhino.'
• 52:42
  Julian Hoad: 'It's arrogant. And I apologise for it.'
• 52:45
  Julian Hoad: 'But I killed and ate the rhino.' And people were in tears.
• 52:46
  Julian Hoad: The jury took 10 minutes to decide, no, he should be acquitted.
• 52:54
  Julian Hoad: And he left the court a free man and the newspaper reporter said to him, 'so tell us, none of us will ever get the chance to find out, what does black rhino tastes like?'
• 53:06
  Julian Hoad: He said, 'it's darker meat than white rhino, I'd say its almost like dodo.'
• 53:22
  Mike Brampton: That's... man.
• 53:24
  Julian Hoad: Yeah, off coulour? Yeah.
• 53:30
  Julian Hoad: It kind of sums up what we do, doesn't it?
• 53:33
  Mike Brampton: Yeah, it does. The thing that sums it up for me is that line in The Matrix?
• 53:43
  Julian Hoad: I have seen the matrix. Yeah, yeah.
• 53:45
  Julian Hoad: I'm struggling to remember which line in particular, you're referring to
• 53:49
  Mike Brampton: Where the agent is talking to Keanu Reeves / Anderson, and he says, 'Mr. Anderson, humankind is a virus on the earth.'
• 54:03
  Julian Hoad: Yep, yep.
• 54:05
  Julian Hoad: We are. We are.
• 54:09
  Mike Brampton: On that note, on that happy note.
• 54:12
  Julian Hoad: We shall cool things to a close.
• 54:14
  Mike Brampton: yeah, we probably need a guest to tone it down a little bit because we can get a bit ranted
• 54:21
  Julian Hoad: I hope that actually, some of our rants have struck bells with you, whatever, it's our planet, as far as we know, we've only got one that we can live on at the moment.
• 54:34
  Mike Brampton: And this ent no dress rehearsal is it?
• 54:38
  Mike Brampton: So, if you like what we do, if you like what you've seen and what you've heard, then click like, follow us.
• 54:44
  Mike Brampton: And we're sure we'll be able to line up a far more interesting than us guest for next week's episode.
• 54:53
  Mike Brampton: No question at all.
• 54:54
  Mike Brampton: If you've got any suggestions or anything that you want us to cover on the show, or anything you want us to talk about or if you've got any things that you want to talk about.
• 55:02
  Mike Brampton: Get in touch with us.
• 55:03
  Mike Brampton: We quite, well, he's approachable. I'm not, I'm miserable bastard.
• 55:09
  Mike Brampton: Yeah, get in touch with us and let's have a conversation.
• 55:12
  Mike Brampton: And until that point in time, I hope you've enjoyed Veterinary Ramblings and may your dog, go with you,
• 55:18
  Julian Hoad: May your dog, go with you,
• 55:20
  Julian Hoad: May your dog, go with you Mike
• 55:20
  Mike Brampton: Good night Julian, Goodnight everybody.
• 55:22
  Mike Brampton: Thank you and cut