Latest / Death Before Decay / What If I Fail?
Transcript
- speaker-1: Welcome to the Death Before Decay podcast. I'm Doctor Elliott and this is John Erline. It's the two of us today. speaker-0: Hello. Thanks for having me again, Doctor Elliott. speaker-1: you bet super di producer John Erling. Yeah. speaker-0: Thank you very much. speaker-1: today we're gonna talk about lessons that you and I learned the hard way. and it's not because we have all the answers. neither of us are geniuses, but because we've both spent enough time chasing our life goals and g building things, screwing things up and figuring things out, that we have definitely developed our own opinions and vibes on certain things, especially when it comes to success and failure. because when it comes down to it, this podcast is about entrepreneurship, it's about confidence, it's about dentistry, it's about photography, it's about a lot of things. But a lot of it is our our goal is that you learn something from every episode. So the speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah, th this is I mean, if you wanna get some passion through your speakers on this episode, I think it's really gonna come out, especially from this mic right here, because I speaker-1: This is a topic you're excited about. speaker-0: I am, you know, failure failure is people need people need to embrace failure more. speaker-1: Yes. speaker-0: Number one. I mean and like repetition, repetition beating something into the ground and just You know, we've talked about it before in previous episodes falling down, getting back up. speaker-1: Yeah, I am not a professional mentor yet in any capacity, but I tend to have people reach out to me and Ask me a lot of questions. my career took off a little bit faster than some people. And I also entered dental school later in life than some people. I've had this question asked a couple of times to me: is what if I fail? And My response every single time is you will. It's going to happen. you need to be ready to mitigate the fallout and you need to make sure that you didn't do something that puts you or your license at risk. That's always the most important thing. Did you fail because you did everything right and and it still didn't work out? That's okay. But if you failed because you did something you know you shouldn't do it that way, well, that's not okay. Absolutely. speaker-0: Yeah, and that's assessing the risk, you know. And and I'd like to back up for a sec. Like, I mean, speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: well, no, just for you, what you said something. You're like, you know, you said something like, you know, I'm not really a mentor, but like, dude, you have a staff of like 20 people. Okay. That's true. You know, you are a leader every single day, and you are mentoring your associate and other employees. So I mean, like, there are levels of it, but I think what we both desire is really that one on one coaching, right? Like a a little more intimate setting where, you know, we both are there for that reason that, you know, there is a guide and there is someone that needs to be guided. speaker-1: Right. So I have a friend who's going through a practice acquisition right now and he's like, I don't know how I'm gonna handle the staff, you know, this or that. And you know, what if I screw it up? I'm like, You will. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: It's okay. Like i i in some situation and at some level you're going to screw something up. Yeah. you know, there there are things that I definitely wish I could take back in my history as a leader, as in the in martial arts, in school, in dentistry, as a business owner, as a practice owner, you know, how are we going to deal with it? the thing that I always try to avoid at all costs is clinical mistakes because that is that's somebody else who's relying on me and I've I've done a very good job at that. but there have been plenty of business mistakes throughout my time. mistakes of how I approached a person. And you need to approach things with humility. You need to admit when you're wrong. You can't be totally stubborn and set in your ways to a point speaker-0: Yeah, you gotta own it. Yeah. You gotta own it. Yeah. And and the the fear of failure is a real thing. And it's like you can go two ways with it. For sure. You know, like the fear of failure will deter you from even trying. speaker-1: And that fear should never be the deterrent to speaker-0: Exactly. That uncomfortable feeling that you are feeling when you have that fear, don't be afraid of it. It's that uncomfortable area where you're growing. Yes. You will be growing and learning and scaling yourself, but you can't get there unless you crawl through some some you know what some speaker-1: Right. And when it comes down to it, that fear can be used as a way of planning for things to go wrong. That's where that fear is useful. you want to plan for what could go wrong on on some several different levels. speaker-0: Like what what would be like the worst mistake that you ever learned from? speaker-1: you know, and I'm not gonna like go into it in a lot of detail because there are people that were heavily impacted by it. but not trusting my gut when it came to working with certain people. you know, there were there've been times where I've worked with certain people in dental school or in my career that weren't the right fit for me or for my team. And it really caused a lot of pain and suffering, not just from me, but for the people that I brought in that that weren't the right fit. I think you need to trust your gut and be willing to pivot when you recognize that something's not working out. And trying to force something to work just because it's a pride thing is is important. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: I mean, I'm sure you've worked with people or hired people in the past that probably wasn't the best decision. speaker-0: Yes. Yeah. unfortunately there was one and you know, it just seemed good on paper speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: but it didn't end up that way. So unfortunately, you know. speaker-1: And and and that's the thing too, is that it didn't just impact me. I think that was what it came down to. but I think my worst mistakes are always not trusting my my gut on on something and try to force a relationship or a situation to work when it wasn't. speaker-0: Well, and you know, we've been friends for a while and you know, and I've even shared with you like patience. Right. Right. And when it comes to the decision making and that decision making could potentially result in a in a failure, right? Like and as you go through the process, you take a step back, would you be like, Well, I didn't exercise the patience that I should have? speaker-1: I think that's really what it came down to is that I needed a role filled or I needed a you know, I needed something taken care of, or I wanted to work with a certain group and or a certain person and I f forced it to happen rather than having the patience to look for the right person or the right group. there are companies that I've hired that I probab like didn't work out. they worked out for a time. and then when they didn't, I just kept working with them because I I didn't want to admit that I was wrong or that they weren't working for me anymore when it was time to pivot. you know, there have been there have been a couple of different marketing groups that I've worked with over the years. and some of them were the right people for me at that time. And then I kept them too long. speaker-0: Yeah. And the and and that happens, right? Especially in that industry, because it you know, you you get a comfort level, you know, things can get a little laxed, and then like yeah, it just gets to be a little yeah, it's not good. What mistakes through failure kind of like made you better in your decision making process? speaker-1: In dental school, I decided that my screw you mentality and my like just make it happen mentality was my greatest strength for advocating for my fellow students. And I decided to get very open, let's call it, and unfiltered with how I felt about certain people in the higher up administration to their faces, which resulted in some semblance of veiled retaliation towards me and put my standing at risk in graduating. From dental school. Luckily, it did not come to that. but I decided you know, when I pointed out to someone that they depicted the way that they handled things, made me think that they cared more about their resume than they did about the students. They didn't take that exactly why take that very well. And speaker-0: Gotcha. speaker-1: And it didn't end up with me getting done what I thought should be accomplished. We were looking to add a counselor, a therapist, somebody for students to go and talk to at the dental school at the time. And we approached several different people about making it happen. The medical school across the street, for reference, had five on staff, but the dental school didn't have any. So we were trying to like advocate for that, and somebody high up in administration said, you know, I can't believe you guys are dealing with this. Like, what's going on? It's like, you know, there's like this is how we think. And he said, Well, that's just I think that goes to show that we aren't you know, bringing in the same caliber of human beings that we used to into these programs. And I told him he was an idiot. speaker-0: And how did that go over? speaker-1: with that specific person, okay. 'Cause speaker-0: Okay. speaker-1: there was a back and forth, but the guy sitting in the room did not take that well. and speaker-0: yeah, rightfully so, right. Yeah. I mean, you know, I mean you have a young adult criticizing someone's intelligence. speaker-1: Yeah, and I that the other person was the one that I specifically questioned their motives on why they were doing things. And honestly, I stand by what I said to that person. the idiot thing was probably not the best way to put it, but by questioning whether he actually cared about the students, I still stand by that statement. speaker-0: Sure. And that's fair. That's totally fair. speaker-1: But it did get me in trouble and it learnt made me maybe a bit of a better politician, a better speaker and better at negotiating. so that's a that's a mistake that I think really helped me grow as a human being for sure. speaker-0: And and I've been in situations like that too. And you know what? I've made similar failure mistakes there. You know, and I think what I've learned is, you know, if you're gonna go have a crucial conversation in that sort of setting, you have to do your best to remove all of the emotion out of everything you're doing. Right. Because it you there as much as you can What are the data points? What are the points of authority? Right. How might we make a difference with this negative situation, right? And try to come out with some sort of resolution. speaker-1: Right, because my to me, my failure there wasn't that, you know, I had someone come after me. It was that we didn't accomplish what we were trying to make happen. And maybe if I had approached it in a better way, we would have. But there's different types of failure too. Yeah. speaker-0: I actually just want you to ask me verbatim John, when was the last time you failed and how did you handle it? speaker-1: Okay. So John, when was the last time you failed and how did you handle? speaker-0: my god, I love this question. Thank you so much for asking. so first note is I was asked that question in an interview. I was young, heavily unprepared for that question. Why it is. And I remember just honestly giving the worst answer. It was like, I sent an email, forgot to C C someone or Forgot to you know, put the attachment on and then followed up with and now the attachment. speaker-1: the lamest response ever for to that question. speaker-0: my God. Absolutely. Yeah. So now I speaker-1: I would be embarrassed. speaker-0: w and that's why I had you ask me the question because it's no one pr no one really prepares you for it. This is my opportunity to prepare people. So people, if you're not failing every single day, you're not growing. If speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: you're not failing, you're not getting stronger. If you're not learning from your mistakes, you're n gonna you're not taking those steps forward. So like You know, that's why when we go back to, you know, like failure and success or whatever, you know, success equals failure at some point along that journey. You failed and pivoted and you you went back, you know, you you had enough courage to go back, you're good to go. You know, like you have to fail every day. That's how you learn. If you're not failing, dude, I don't I don't even know if I want to talk to you. speaker-1: Yeah. And if you're not learning from those mistakes, that's that's is how we learn. We I think a lot of people actually learn more from their mistakes and their failures than their successes. speaker-0: I know I do. speaker-1: There's plenty of learning opportunities in your successes, like hey, that worked, but there's just as many to learn in failures. But I think failure should sting. I don't think you should be completely comfortable with failure either. speaker-0: Acho speaker-1: Like my Mom, my parents, we've talked about this before, never let me use ADHD or like anything, or me being smaller than other people as an excuse. Like you're smaller, well figure out how to get inside their guard and win your tournament. you don't learn as good as everyone else? Try harder. And I almost became kind of a sore loser. speaker-0: Mm. speaker-1: And I think there's like a there's definitely like a line that you have to balance. Like There's a difference between being a sore loser and being way too comfortable with failure or way too okay with it. Because things that matter to you, sh it should sting when you fail. Like I never I took losses in martial arts with grace, but I was never okay with it. Learned from it. speaker-0: But like the the stinging and failure should hurt, but like if you gave it your all and you didn't end up on top, you should still be proud of yourself. speaker-1: Yeah, I'm not good at that. I'll just be honest. And that's a that's probably a failure on my speaker-0: I don't th I don't think it's failure. It's your desire to win and it's that level of like now I'm pushing harder. speaker-1: Yeah, it's the same thing in business. You know, you and I were talking earlier, outside of the podcast about me, where the growth comes, what's next, what do I want to do? Am I gonna keep doing it how I'm doing it? A and the answer is I don't know. but I know that growth is coming. I don't know exactly what it looks like. Well speaker-0: Things become more clear though too, like as you start to you know, y you make more room in your head because the other things that you had to give a lot of focus and attention to, now you don't have to so much anymore because there's muscle memory or you've built up your confidence and how to do that task or whatever. You know, so like being able to, you know, do those reps and you know, learn from the failures and build that up, then you take something new on. Yeah. speaker-1: Yeah, but that can be like obsession too. So what would you say is the line between passion and obsession? speaker-0: gosh. Because I feel like you stumped me. speaker-1: You know what, I think I've crossed that line many times over the years. speaker-0: Let me start with passion. Passion and this is this is just me. I have a a driving passion to continue to elevate my craft, be better at how I approach things, is specifically my professional career. You know, I I enjoy understanding the process and I get a lot of fulfillment out of it. Obsession it's different because you are so fixated on a certain something that like it eats away at you that like it's an it's almost like negative. Yeah. It's like a negative thing, but passion is positive. Passion is like, dude, I'm passionate about marketing. I am passionate about photography. I am passionate about the energy I get when I work with somebody one on one. But like an obsession can be very, very negative. So that's how I would relate it. speaker-1: line is is when your passion starts having a negative impact on your life it's become an obsession. Is that a good way to speaker-0: I think for right now, yes. I can I can I can I can meet you there. Yeah. Yeah, I can meet you there. But I mean, how do you feel about that? Like when you think about passion versus obsession, like are you aligned? Do you see it differently? speaker-1: I think that there have been times in my life where I've been obsessed with success. What does success look like? What's the high from it? And when do I move on to the next success? And I think that's when my mentality has gotten like negative. Like I am like always seeking out that that endorphin rush or you know, hormonal like it just like that that z I guess is the best way to describe it. that I can never And just settle for what I have right now at times. And that's when it's negatively impacting my life. But, but, but, but it's also what drives me forward. It's how I grow as a human being, where I find some semblance of of joy. but it can't be my self worth can't be tied into that so much. Cause like what we're what we're saying here is that You should be upset when you fail at something that matters to you. But just don't stay upset when you're there. And enjoy success when you have it too, and not be seeking out the next success. speaker-0: my gosh, I'm so bad about celebrating the success. Absolutely. speaker-1: Same. I'm thinking about the next thing that's speaker-0: Absolutely. It's like, what could I have done better? You know, how can I make this better? you know, the how can I scale this? Right? Like this was a small win, let's make it a big win. speaker-1: I think one thing that I have found as I've gotten older and especially in the last couple of years is finding activities that I don't care if I win at or not. It's been interesting. speaker-0: In the words of one of my mentors, Gary, say more. speaker-1: Okay. So I had to leave competitive martial arts when I entered dental school. Like it wasn't a way like I can still do my patterns, but getting in the sparring ring is not responsible anymore. I have too many people relying on me. So if I get injured, like it like it derails too many other people's lives. speaker-0: Can impact your future. Right. speaker-1: 100%. So rather than just like going with it, like I decided I am going to leave the competitive side of martial arts and just enjoy the art form of it. And now I don't care as much about whether everything is perfect about it. I still enjoy it in a lot of ways, but I'm not like I'm up for a rank advancement technically, and I'm really don't care if I get it. speaker-0: A rank advancement. speaker-1: Meaning I can move up a degree of black belt. speaker-0: Got it. Okay. speaker-1: another thing that I've taken up because of probably peer pressure and expectations as a dentist is that I should know how to golf and I don't. speaker-0: whole life to get better at golf. I know. speaker-1: But I went and decided to try it. There's a Scramble event coming up that I'm sponsoring. speaker-0: Best kind of like start with. speaker-1: Is it? Okay. speaker-0: yeah. speaker-1: Yeah. So I'm playing with some friends of mine. One of them is a friend of both of ours, good old Uncle Mike Cup. Cupcake. Yep. He's been teaching me how to hit the ball and now I can hit it, which I couldn't do two weeks ago. speaker-0: Keep your head down. speaker-1: Yep. It's been interesting. but I also do not care at how well I do in a golf event. I right now I'm just all I care about is could I hit it further? 'Cause that's fun. But at the end of the day it doesn't it doesn't you've probably got things that you've done in your life where you didn't care if you won or lost or speaker-0: Well, you know, life has its way of conditioning you, you know. I would say that so here are my two things that made me I think take competitive failure to not such a personal level. So for those of you that's played football with me in Sheboygan South High School graduating class in nineteen ninety eight speaker-1: people around the football team. speaker-0: Well that my vars my senior varsity year we I think ended the the year with thirteen. fifteen players. Okay. If my math is correct, you need eleven players. speaker-1: Okay. So there might be twelve people listening to this who who can speaker-0: Potentially, presumably. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. But so like my whole high school career, we won a total of two games once my freshman year and then once my senior year. And it it was such a exhausting thing, but I loved the sport. Yeah. And I was decent at it for my team. If I was probably somewhere else, maybe I would have rode the bench. But did you Yes, freshman year. speaker-1: Man. Yeah. speaker-0: So for those listening, that that was the that's the arch rival across town. But very speaker-1: Where speaker-0: good friends. Very good friends. We're all still very good friends, but that was when we could talk a little trash. But you know, but and then like also, oddly enough, in the video game world, so my brother Josh and I, again back to football, played Madden. online all the time. He moved out to, you know, Washington when he was in the service and then he was in Indiana and that's where he is now. And that was our way of, you know, connecting, right? You know, so we would play Madden football all the time. And man, would he kick my butt every single time we played, I would just get so mad and then I was just like, good game, Josh. Love you, buddy. You know, like 'cause at the end of the day, man, I didn't want to be mad at my brother. I love my brother. You know, and I you know, and I just you know, it it was just us hanging out. He just happened to win all the time. However, once the reps kicked in, you know, four years of getting my butt kicked, yeah, I gotta win in every now and then. That's awesome. Yeah, yeah. You know, so I kinda brought it back. speaker-1: We had the same thing. Yeah. Dragon Ball Z Budokai Three, I would kick all of my siblings butts at and occasionally I would pick a character where they would stand a chance and they'd beat me every once in a while. speaker-0: Yeah, like I took the dolphins. Yeah. Yeah. speaker-1: But I had I had a one of my employees, this is funny, came to me the other day and she's like, I had my switch out in my office just playing Mario Kart but after a a long surgery and she's like, I play Mario Kart at home all the time. My husband gives me a hard time because I won't let my kid win. And I'm like, Tell me more. And she's like, Well, I'm really competitive and I want her to be competitive. So if she wants to beat me, she needs to beat me. And I'm like That's awesome. But it probably gets super discussed. speaker-0: Sounds just like my better half. My my wife is extremely competitive, but also like a very gifted athlete. You know, she's like really ri like her middle name should be precision. speaker-1: My my group of friends growing up, we were always trying to one up each other and I think that it developed us to be the people that we are. speaker-0: I would say try playing darts with my wife. I thought darts were fun. I'm kidding, you know how much I love you, honey. speaker-1: man. speaker-0: But yeah, so I mean like but but when it comes to failure, right, like you gotta own that. No one's coming to save you. Right. speaker-1: Right. speaker-0: Right. speaker-1: Yeah, I mean growth begins when personal responsibility kicks in. Yeah. Like you have to own own your shit. speaker-0: And the question, and again, I'm gonna go back to my brother Joshua Erline, what are you doing about it? speaker-1: I'd agree. When like speaker-0: So fair question. speaker-1: at what point do you stop blaming the circumstances that are going on around you? With Madden football, you're probably blaming the controller. speaker-0: And maybe the the local area network, aka LAN. speaker-1: Yes. speaker-0: No, but I mean like it no, but like if we back it up a bit, you know, all that negative energy that you feel, all that frustration, and y you sit there and complain, but what are you doing about it? What are you doing to make a change? You're sick of failing, there's a lot of failure going on, and like nothing's changing. I I have to You know, I would say you gotta take a step back as a human being and be like, What am I doing wrong here? And what do I need to do to change? What do I need to do to pivot? What am I doing about it? And if you're not doing anything, then nothing's gonna change. It's speaker-1: really fast way to become a toxic human being to other people too. Absolutely. So if you feel like your friends are not supporting you or have your back all the time, is it something you're doing? And I I I can think of I people that I have been close to over the years coming to me and saying things like, yeah, it didn't work out because of this and that and you know, you know, the government's this or that. And I'm like, all right. So what did you do to pivot or do next and w well nothing. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: You know, you know, th they only want people with a college degree. Great, when are you gonna start school? speaker-0: Well it and with where today is at right now, I feel like the the playing field has been leveled. Yes. Like with software, AI, like I I don't want to turn this into an AI conversation, but again, sorry. But I mean like the the playing field has been leveled a bit to certain point, you know, where you know w we can all Find ways to learn differently and approach our work differently and it is a way to do something about it. Yeah. speaker-1: No one's coming to save you. Like you've got friends and family who have your back. But as soon as you become start becoming when you start to feel people pulling away, there's there's a point of like, hey, we've got to I've got to have this some self reflection about this. Like whenever I've had a team member or somebody that I've worked with or a company that I didn't that didn't work out with me, or an employee, I do take it to heart. Like that's a form of failure. Like, why didn't this this work out? And I have learned over the years that I can't just blame that person. I need to step take a step back and go, Is there anything I could have done better? speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: Like what mistakes did I make along the way? And s and you know what's really cool? Sometimes it had nothing to do with you. speaker-0: Yeah. And speaker-1: But a lot of times it did. speaker-0: And you know, when when you are a leader and when you are a mentor, y approaching these difficult conversations can be can be a challenge. And I just like something for me that I do that helps those conversations when, you know, you you're needing to talk to someone, I'll start with And it's tone, right? It's like tone of voice, it's delivery, it's everything. I'll say, I have a hard question to ask you. That that works for me and how I'm approaching things because I'm trying to tee up that like I'm not trying to be transparent. I don't like to gatekeep. I don't like to be transparent and I'm letting my whoever this individual is to be like, look, this is we're having a conversation here and we are not you know, I'm not gonna sugarcoat it. speaker-1: Do you think like let's think back here? Let's I th I like where you're going with this because you know, I'm talking about like team members that didn't work out and I have that self-reflection on standpoint, but there are times that like there are just people you can't work with. what do you what do people avoid taking ownership of? Because you've worked with I think more diverse teams than I have. speaker-0: Yeah, someone's always gonna point the finger at someone, you know, every single time. But at the end of the day, like I'd be the one to stop the buck and be like, I own it. I'll take that. That happened on my team. I lead this team. That's me. I own it. And especially well, no, I mean like at the end of the day, I don't wanna sit there and waste time on who did what and why what happened. I wanna solve the problem. Right. You know, and then I wanna have a solution to the problem so that it doesn't happen again. speaker-1: Yeah, there's personality assessments called disc assessments that I I use in my practice a lot. And one thing I'm what you would call a heavy D I. and you know people with a high D and a high I tend to like working with people a lot and and are really, really driven towards success at times. And we don't want too much information. So one thing that like one way of like really screwing with me and making me upset is to give me a bunch of excuses why something didn't happen. speaker-0: Absolutely. I and I'm very similar because at the end of the day it's not a good use of our time to sit there and be like, Well, what happened? Well, we know it happened because that's why we're talking. Right. You know, so what Yeah. speaker-1: Give me the bullet points. speaker-0: Well, that or own it, let me know where the mistake happened. Right. We both learn from it. And let's hope it doesn't happen again. But if there's a repetitive action where things continue to happen, well You know, as a manager, that's where you have to take you have to take a step back, remove emotion completely from it, and take a look at the role and the responsibilities that that role needs to do. If the human being that's in that role is not being able to execute that, then as a manager you have a hard decision to make. Right. speaker-1: And this kind of ties more into the leadership aspect of like being a f you know, failing at times as a leader is, you know, not recognizing where the problem came from or not adapting to the to the issue because the challenges of leadership are much different than the challenge of individual accountability. You know, for me, you know, if you're not using common sense and you're making a lot of excuses about things. I have a harder time keeping you around and on my team because that's a toxic trait. speaker-0: Mm-hmm. speaker-1: and I think that's when you start owning and taking accountability for things and admitting mistakes and learning from those mistakes, heck man, that's when you start to become a leader. speaker-0: Yeah, I'll I would rather just own it and not like get it over with, but I'd rather own anything that I've done that was maybe inaccurate or it was the cause of the problem and I will learn from it. Yeah. speaker-1: Because leadership isn't about having fewer problems, it's about carrying those bigger ones. So do I. I speaker-0: I love being a leader. I do. I absolutely speaker-1: get a lot of fulfillment. speaker-0: I do. I love it. I love to lead and inspire. I love to mentor. And I'm so grateful that I have a new opportunity to do this again because I I don't know if we want to like totally get into it, but the like I I was in a leadership position at my former place of employment, Mercury Marine, and I loved that job. And I was I I stepped into the company at an as an individual contributor and you know left as someone that was on an executive leadership team. And that place is amazing. And I learned so much growth there. But I that's where I also learned to own it. You know? Yeah. There's no time to just sit there and point the finger and whatever. It's like no. And that's where the team culture really I got to work with, I feel like some of the Best of the best. And I had such a great support crew. And then, you know, as people's corporate careers go on, right, like you you s you start to lose a little love, right? Yeah. And I just knew that like my time there was done. It was time to leave. And I took about a two two year hiatus. And now I find myself back in a corporate world. And I'm in another leadership position where I'm leading and inspiring. But now I have the clarity that I didn't have. Because I was at Mercury for over a decade, right? And now I have that clarity of like knowing where the mistakes happen. You do your best to avoid them, but you know, it still happens. But like that mentality of like, hey, it's okay. You're gonna fail. It's all right. Like, I'm not your parent. You should no one should be going to work to think, be thinking like, my God, they're gonna get mad at me today. my God. Like gosh no, like we're all adults. You know what you're having a bad day, go home. This isn't a prison. speaker-1: Yeah. You know, I I try you know, I try to make a place that's pretty fun to work at, but what at You do and at the end of the day, like it's still work. but I really, really love practice ownership. I love the fact that I've been able to build a team. I was talking with one of my consultants, mentor. advisor I don't know what we would call her, but her name's Corey. She's worked with me for a long time. And we're just chatting at this point, just having a conversation. 'cause for she's not on retainer anymore, but she's she pointed out to me that it took y that I have an amazing team right now and I feel really, really good about that because one thing I think gets romanticized, especially when we're younger, is that the grass is gonna be greener. on the other side and leadership is not about having fewer problems. Like I said, it's about curing bigger ones. Because the the thing was always like with me and the people that I love and the people that I hang out with are like, okay, once we get to this step, it's gonna be better. No man, it's gonna be different, but the challenges are still gonna be there. For me, it was if I can just get through college and get into dental school, everything will be good. I will be able to get through dental school, be able to move on to my career and my life will be amazing. Yet then I got to dental school and dental school sucks. It sucks. speaker-0: Dental school does not suck for those of you that want to become a dentist. speaker-1: Dental school sucks, but being speaker-0: I did not go to dental school though. speaker-1: a dentist is pretty great. but then it was like, okay, become an associate at a d get my first job in in dentistry. Well then that's all new problems. Like there's there's there's clinical complications, there's personnel complications, you are a leader in the practice, in the facility, you are an authority to the patients who are gonna ask you questions and expect you to have answers. There's all kinds of new problems. So then it becomes okay. If I can just become an owner of the practice and then mold that practice into what I want it to be, everything will be okay. Right. speaker-0: Without the bureaucracy. Right. speaker-1: But then you would get into practice ownership and it's, hey, now everyone's gonna come to you with all of the problems. And you're gonna have to now balance being a business owner, a a CEO, a COO, and the lead clinician. speaker-0: And what and w and two of those three will fail. Yes. Right? Yeah. Exactly. Because you and we've talked about this so many times, right? Like Dr. Elliott needs to be able to focus on his craft, not marketing. You know. But I he speaker-1: Really do like marketing. speaker-0: likes marketing, but I mean at the end, you know, he that's not where eighty percent of his focus should be. It should be the other way around. Right. You know? So like it's that that twenty percent. You know, we talked about that. It's like, dude, are you are you should you be focused on marketing or smile transformation cases? I speaker-1: Probably smile transformation case. speaker-0: I mean I feel like that's where you know, yeah. speaker-1: Yeah. you know, I've brought in a new business manager and he's been awesome about taking a lot of the like the business side of things off of me where I can be the ideas person, I can be involved to the capacity that I am capable of and then he'll take care of the other problems. speaker-0: And how many times did I share with you to keep your plate half full? speaker-1: A lot and I never did, but that's a f that's a failure on my part. speaker-0: It's not a failure, it's realizing when it's the right time to offload. speaker-1: Right. And at this point, like the success is that I have an amazing team. I have a really, really healthy, successful dental practice and I'm really trying to enjoy that right now. speaker-0: And and I I also one thing I learned and it wasn't very clear to me, and this was advice I had gotten from a former HR representative, Casey. my god, Casey was so great. but she was like, you know, you need to like form a leadership team for your boss. And I was like, like the Avengers, you know, like like a line of defense. And it makes a lot of sense when you think about it. You know, it's like if I am able to build the trust with my with my boss and get alignment with other leadership team members, we do become like the Avengers. And then like we are a trusted source that like within the department and we're running it, and then my boss can focus on what matters to to them. Yeah. You know, and then that way, like there's trust, there's better execution, there's better energy, there's a better culture, you know? Yeah. Like there's there's there's value there. So speaker-1: Yeah, that that actually reminds me of a question that I kind of thought of when we were going through this topic is, you know, a and we've already hit on like all of the things that get harder as you move up in leadership. What what gets easier? And is that that you're able to develop the systems that you want? speaker-0: I would say where I'm at my career right now, yes, you know, implementing the systems that help a department run smoothly and efficiently has high value. You know, there is high value in managing the work getting done and implementing systems that create better visibility, better communication and more efficiencies. speaker-1: Yes. And for me it was giving me the ability to Create a business model and an image of the business that I wanted, that I could express my creativity without being limited by other people or my a boss above me. Now that can lead to some pretty catastrophic failures at time if you're not smart about it, you know. Success is a complicated thing. We need to embrace it more. but we also have to embrace what actually matters. And I think, you know, with my daughter coming in October and like the fact that I have achieved a lot of my goals at this point in life, I think my definition of success is shifting. do you think your definition of success has changed? speaker-0: Absolutely. Yeah. A hundred percent. And you know, when you meet those goals, I mean, gosh, I hope you make new ones. Because if they were driving you to get to a certain point, well, you know, there there there's always the North Star to go after. And I think, you know, setting some realistic and achievable goals for yourself, like that's great. Like and those are the things that raise your confidence. So those are the things that push you into uncomfortable territory and you're growing. You know? And if you're not pushing yourself and doing some sort of goal setting, yeah, the the last goal I can remember that I really set for myself was to become an amazing headshot photographer. speaker-1: You you gotten pretty good. speaker-0: I I think so. No, but I mean like so but but what well like what did I do to get there? Yeah. Like I I put in the work and I worked with the best. I took the feedback and I applied it and there was failure and then there was improvement and then there was failure, there was more failure and then there was improvement. But I'm seven, eight years into that journey of doing professional headshots at a very high level. And I'd say within the last year or two is when I would say, man, I finally feel very, very comfortable with this. I used to have to want to meet with people before I photograph them because like I didn't want that challenge of not knowing who they were or like not being able to I speaker-1: Remember you you did like a Zoom call? speaker-0: did, yeah, yeah. And like I wanted to forget about that. Yeah, and I wanted to like cause I wanted to make people feel comfortable. 'Cause there's nothing worse than, you know, showing up to a session of someone you never met who's bald and bearded and looks a little, you know, it can be a little curmudgeoned look physically, but I'm not. I'm a nice guy. I mean, listen to me. So anyways, you know, but like getting to that point of like that comfort level and everything, and then not worrying about the technology and the hardware and just being able to focus with that person, seeing the light the way that I want it, and then seeing them for who they are in a short amount of time, I love it. Yeah. I love that challenge and I had to crawl through so much failure to get there. And now I feel very confident about the the end product that I can give most human beings. speaker-1: Like that. Yeah, I mean for me it's speaker-0: The parallels are very similar. speaker-1: Like, you know, it for it's it's interesting when life goals start to really come out. Like I was at the Spear Summit, Frank Spear, was talking about like what are you gonna do after you achieve your life goal? And for me, success is just the next step. Like, you know, I've got I'm gonna be a dad. for me it's, what do I do to help her be successful? Des and I were talking about like, what if we like screw up and I'm like, we will. speaker-0: There's no instruction manual for being a parent. I know there's lots of books and what to expect when expecting and whatever, but I mean like look, speaking from someone that has been a parent for almost twenty two years speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: there is no there nothing it's the hardest gig you'll ever have at this speaker-1: point I'm just like my focus I think and how I will measure success is how many hours of therapy she needs after I'm gone. speaker-0: gosh. speaker-1: gosh can I minimize the trauma? speaker-0: You know, it I would say like speaking from that experience, it's just like what is the relationship that you have with your parents today? And how would you like your relationship with your child to be today? You know, like because you know, the my my mom's gone, my dad's still here. And I love my dad. He's an amazing man. He he's a mentor. He's always my dad. Not really ever my friend. Detail speaker-1: Retail Run. speaker-0: Rod. But I mean, he's he's an amazing guy and he's always challenging me to think differently. but you know what? Like, sometimes I just want a friend. And I'm forty six years old, and I don't always want to be challenged. And you know, sometimes I find myself doing that with my own kids and I try to recognize it. And it's not like I'm saying this is anything wrong with my father. I love him very much. He's a great man. I'm very lucky to have him. But like sometimes like I I do just want to have a friend. speaker-1: Sure. speaker-0: You know, and when when when you know my son Jaden, you know, he's gonna be, you know, he's almost twenty two. I mean, to me, he's a man. Make your own decisions, go out and fail, learn from them, and you know, try to, you know, learn from it. And as a parent, you know, it's it's hard to sit back and let them do that, but at the end of the day, that's what they need to do. That's what I had to do, that's what you had to do, and that's how you get better. That's how you improve. speaker-1: Yeah. you know, success probably means very little if you hate your life that you built to get there. I've watched a couple of interviews with some dentists who build up these huge like networks of multiple practices, like large business empires. And they are miserable because they've got no time for their family, for their friends, for their hobbies. and can you call someone like that successful? It was the same reason why I left music or if I finally was ready to leave yeah, you know, trying to become a professional musician when I did. the big thing was is that I wasn't very good, so it was never gonna happen. But I was seeing guys that I would categorize as successful and their relationships with their families and friends weren't the greatest because they were always on the road. Like the commitment that had to happen like really impacted their life in a way that I wasn't willing to accept. And I wouldn't be able to feel successful in that way. I think I would have been miserable. speaker-0: Well, and that's kinda like how do you measure success? Right. Right. speaker-1: It's all subjective. speaker-0: Right. It it's how do you measure success? How do you, you know, define how much is enough in life, right? Like you just talked about, you know, these dentists have b built up large networks and I'm sure there was a lot of money pouring in and everything, but something like that requires a lot of attention. Yeah. It requires a lot of attention and a lot of commitment. And then it's almost like you had a family to check the box on that. Well that's not fair to the family. speaker-1: Yeah, and speaker-0: And I'm not saying that to our to our audience, but like everyone's different, right? And for I think f I'll I'll speak for me, not for both of us, 'cause you're here and you have a mic and you have a mouth. So like that's fine. But you know, like for me, like, you know, there's a level of success that's enough for me. speaker-1: Yeah, I think that there that for someone like me who's looking for the next project, for looking for the next thing that I get to do, it's it's always a hard thing for me to just be happy with where I'm at, with where the success is. But I want to be happy when I get home. I wanna be happy with my family, I wanna be happy with my relationships. And if you know, trying to portray outward success and think about how you know, how other people look at me, if I have to build a life that I'm miserable in, it it's not worth it. It's not a success. It's a failure. you know, there things that mattered to me a lot ten years ago matter to me less now. speaker-0: Same. Same Z. speaker-1: and then there are things that matter to me more now. speaker-0: Yeah. Like teeth maxing. Teeth max. speaker-1: Yeah, sure. Like I I'm trying to figure that out. Like speaker-0: Teeth maxing, mouth maxing, smile maxing, you know, all the things. speaker-1: and you know, if you are happy with your life, your bills are paid, you're gonna be able to be able to retire comfortably and you're doing bread and butter dentistry, or you're just doing headshot and you're feeling fulfilled, stay in that lane. But if there's something like if you feel the need to do the next thing and it's not gonna negatively impact your life outside of your career. that then pursue it. because I think that's probably more what what success is. Are you happy? Are you comfortable? And are you able to take care of the things that need to be taken? speaker-0: Absolutely. You know, and and the longer you do something and the more efficient and better you get at doing it, it does allow you to take more on, right? So, you know, you know, you mentioned, you know, like, you know, you've scaled your business, you offer more services than when you started because you have a higher comfort level of, you know, offering that stuff, right? And you're like, Hey, I'm running a business, right? And then You know, there's a a range of services that I can offer at all different financial scales, right? Where do I feel comfortable? Where do I feel uncomfortable? Where I want to feel comfortable. speaker-1: Right. I th I I would agree. you know, this this subject I think you and I could go on and on about, but speaker-0: Yeah. We really could. speaker-1: failure is important. Failure's important Yep. speaker-0: It is. It's part of life. speaker-1: You should embrace it. It should still sting, but are you gonna own it and are you gonna move past it quickly? Because successful people are the people who take failure on the chin, they learn from it and they move on quickly. Yeah. And And that I think that's a big message is if you should be able to move on quickly, do not let it engulf you mentally, spiritually, emotionally. speaker-0: Yeah. And that that part is a challenge. And it's s someone like me, how I got hooked up, dude, I will catastrophesize like like it's horrible. And those are things that I'm working on, right? And when I get to that point, it's like, man, you're feeling, you're feeling, you're feeling. It's like, okay, I now know like the frameworks or like the coping mechanisms that I need to go through that. And I've learned it's patience. Yeah. It number one, it's patience, and it's like, I gotta walk away. I I literally have to walk away and I need to I g I have to recenter, right? Or reset. And sometimes that's it's hard when when I have a the emotions that I have going through my body, ugh. It's exhausting. I get it. But I still like me. So like me. speaker-1: I I like you too, John. and I guess my final message would be that don't try to force something to work because you're afraid to admit that you failed. Because I think that is the biggest mistake that I've made in the past is trying to force something to work when I know it won't. speaker-0: And I would just add that if you're not failing every day, you're not growing. speaker-1: I like that. All right. I think that's where we where we will end this this subject. Hopefully some felt encouraged and challenged from this this episode. I know I did. I've been able to reflect on myself a little bit here. This was a little therapeutic, John. I appreciate it. I'll pay your hourly, no problem. speaker-0: You're welcome. speaker-1: This has been the Death Before Decay podcast with Dr. Elliot Hummiston and super producer John Erline. We appreciate you listening in and hopefully you got something out of this. if you enjoyed the podcast, please subscribe to us on all our platforms speaker-0: Please. speaker-1: and check out our social medias. Mine is dr dot Elliot Hummiston on Instagram, John. speaker-0: What are you at? I am John Erline Photo. speaker-1: Excellent. So yeah, we share lots of tidbits about what's going on with our lives and try to entertain you it with cool stuff. speaker-0: Yeah, I mean like when you get a dentist and, you know, a creative guy together, great stuff happens. speaker-1: Yes, absolutely. All right. Thanks everybody. speaker-0: All right. Bye bye. Bye.