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Murder In Moscow: The Prosecution And The Family Members As Potential Witnesses · Beyond The Horizon

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  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome back to the program. With
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  Speaker 1: the new court filings that have been filed by the
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  Speaker 1: prosecution and the defense, they make it rather obvious that
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  Speaker 1: they have no desire to see the gag order lifted.
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  Speaker 1: In fact, the prosecution has gone so far to say
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  Speaker 1: that the Gonsalvice family are considered potential witnesses by the prosecution.
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  Speaker 1: And how that's even possible, I don't know. How is
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  Speaker 1: it that they can be witnesses considering none of them
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  Speaker 1: are there, They don't know what happened, They weren't at
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  Speaker 1: the scene of the crime. So what it looks like
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  Speaker 1: to me is the prosecution is labeling them as potential
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  Speaker 1: witnesses to try and shut them up. And we have
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  Speaker 1: seen the same tactics over and over and over again
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  Speaker 1: used in the Jeffrey Epstein case when they don't want
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  Speaker 1: to talk about how he died in jail. Oh, this
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  Speaker 1: is an ongoing investigation. We can't honor that requests for
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  Speaker 1: a Freedom of Information Act because this is an ongoing investigation.
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  Speaker 1: So if you want to be cynical, you can certainly
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  Speaker 1: see this as a preemptive move from the prosecution to
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  Speaker 1: try and restrict the freedom of speech of the Gonsalvez
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  Speaker 1: family to try and pull an end around on the
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  Speaker 1: Supreme Court ruling stating that these gag orders can't be
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  Speaker 1: overly broad and that the scope must be clipped and tailored. Now,
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  Speaker 1: of course, the other side of that argument is maybe
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  Speaker 1: they are going to be potential witnesses. We don't know
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  Speaker 1: what the prosecution has cooking. And I know we say
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  Speaker 1: that a lot here, but it's the truth and it
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  Speaker 1: has to be reiterated because there's a lot going on
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  Speaker 1: that we're just not privy to right now, and we
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  Speaker 1: won't be because of this gag order. But trying to
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  Speaker 1: set them up and frame them as potential witnesses, we're
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  Speaker 1: gonna need a little more information. I think about that.
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  Speaker 1: Witnesses to what they weren't there at the scene of
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  Speaker 1: the crime. Maybe come in and talk about how how
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  Speaker 1: they feel that sentencing. I could see that. But would
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  Speaker 1: that be enough for a gag order to be dropped
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  Speaker 1: over their heads. I don't know. Let's dive into this
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  Speaker 1: article from Fox News and let's see what Michael Ruiz
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  Speaker 1: has for US Idaho murders prosecutor says victim's family potential
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  Speaker 1: witnesses as defense supposes the gag order appeal. This article
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  Speaker 1: was authored by Michael Ruiz. A court disclosed new court
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  Speaker 1: filings in the University of Idaho student slayings case Friday,
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  Speaker 1: revealing opposition to an appeal of the judge's gag order.
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  Speaker 1: So the prosecution and Brian Coberger's lawyers are both saying
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  Speaker 1: that they don't want the gag order to be reduced,
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  Speaker 1: they don't want the gag order to be dropped, and
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  Speaker 1: they believe the scope is fine where it is. Judge
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  Speaker 1: Megan Marshall imposed the order on January third, limiting what prosecutors,
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  Speaker 1: the defense, and other authorities can tell the media. Then
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  Speaker 1: she expanded it to apply to attorneys for witnesses, the
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  Speaker 1: victims and their families. The members of the Gonsalvis family,
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  Speaker 1: who are represented by mister Shannon Gray, are potential witnesses
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  Speaker 1: in this case, including at trial endoor sentencing. Leyta County
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  Speaker 1: Prosecutor Bill Thompson wrote in a short affid David on Wednesday,
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  Speaker 1: So is it just the Gonsalvis family that are potential
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  Speaker 1: witnesses or is it everybody's family in the whole entire case,
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  Speaker 1: Because it seems like they're just pointing out the Gonsalvis
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  Speaker 1: family here, and we know that they've had a contentious
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  Speaker 1: relationship throughout this whole thing. So could this be a
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  Speaker 1: little bit of comeback and a little bit of get
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  Speaker 1: back from the prosecutor's office in Moscow? Being petty? Very possible.
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  Speaker 1: Let's not act like these prosecutors are above reproach or
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  Speaker 1: that they don't do things like this. They do, and
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  Speaker 1: sometimes it's all about just flexing their power, not about
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  Speaker 1: what's right and wrong as far as the law goes.
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  Speaker 1: So if you want to shut anybody up in a case,
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  Speaker 1: you can just say, as the prosecutor, well, they're a
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  Speaker 1: potential witness, so I don't want them talking to the media,
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  Speaker 1: even if their ties to what happened are not very strong.
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  Speaker 1: And when I say that, I mean what could the
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  Speaker 1: family possibly offer up as witnesses at the trial? And
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  Speaker 1: if they are going to be witnesses, be specific in
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  Speaker 1: your ruling as to who those witnesses will be. Don't
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  Speaker 1: just say the whole Gonsalvest family. I don't even know
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  Speaker 1: what that means. That's pretty vague, And you would think
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  Speaker 1: with something like this you'd want some more clarity. No,
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  Speaker 1: but I guess the whole entire Gonsalvest family are potential
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  Speaker 1: witnesses in this case for insert reason here. Now, if
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  Speaker 1: you want to talk about sentencing, that's fine. I understand
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  Speaker 1: that because a lot of times you do call up
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  Speaker 1: the witnesses I mean the victims' families to come up
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  Speaker 1: and talk about how they were impacted by what happened
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  Speaker 1: to their family member. So I could see that, but
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  Speaker 1: I don't know if that's enough for a court to
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  Speaker 1: extend that gag order. Now, if you want to gag
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  Speaker 1: Shannon Gray, as a lawyer, I can see that, right,
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  Speaker 1: I can totally see that, and in fact, I probably
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  Speaker 1: wouldn't have much to say about it. But when you
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  Speaker 1: start putting a gag order on regular common citizens and
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  Speaker 1: we read through what they had to defend their point
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  Speaker 1: of view, meaning the prosecution, and to tell you the truth,
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  Speaker 1: I didn't find the case law that they were referring
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  Speaker 1: to to be all that strong. Sure there's some precedent
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  Speaker 1: for it, but it's not really that strong, folks. And
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  Speaker 1: I think that if it's challenged in the Supreme Court,
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  Speaker 1: I think we'll see that the Gonsalvis family will be
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  Speaker 1: able to have a little more leeway as far as
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  Speaker 1: communicating with the public and the media. Now, I don't
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  Speaker 1: think Shannon Gray and his argument is going to be upheld,
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  Speaker 1: but I do believe that the Gonsalves family should have
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  Speaker 1: the right to say whatever they want at this point.
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  Speaker 1: The filing comes days after Gray appealed the court's gag order,
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  Speaker 1: calling it fashly over broad and vague and unconstitutional in
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  Speaker 1: a court filing last week. As attorney for one of
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  Speaker 1: the victim's families, I am allowed to relate to the
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  Speaker 1: media any of the opinions, views, or statements of those
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  Speaker 1: family members regarding any part of the case, as they
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  Speaker 1: are allowed to speak about the case under the First Amendment,
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  Speaker 1: he argued. So it seems like in the order they're arguing,
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  Speaker 1: meaning the prosecution, that Shannon Gray, as an officer of
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  Speaker 1: the court and as a lawyer, is bound by this
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  Speaker 1: gag order. So if I was the family, I just
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  Speaker 1: pull an end around and I'd go get somebody as
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  Speaker 1: a spokesperson for the family who isn't a lawyer, and
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  Speaker 1: then let's see what happens there. Because it's obviously a
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  Speaker 1: game of cat and mouse at this point, and the
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  Speaker 1: prosecution has no desire for the Gonzalvas family to have
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  Speaker 1: any leeway when it comes to speaking to the media.
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  Speaker 1: And I understand why they'd want to do that, considering
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  Speaker 1: the Gonsalvas family has been so vocal. But it's gonna
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  Speaker 1: be a long road for you to convince me that
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  Speaker 1: a grieving father and a grieving family should have to
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  Speaker 1: sit in silence after their family member was brutally murdered. Now, look,
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  Speaker 1: I'm not saying that the police should tell the Gonsalves
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  Speaker 1: family or any of the families inside information or what's
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  Speaker 1: going on within the case. They shouldn't do that, And
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  Speaker 1: if the authorities aren't sharing inside information, then it's just
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  Speaker 1: the Gonsalvas' opinion at that point. Now, obviously, the government
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  Speaker 1: maintains that the whole entire idea behind this gag order
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  Speaker 1: is to make sure that there's an impartial jury. But
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  Speaker 1: in this day and age, with technology the way it is,
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  Speaker 1: do you think there's anyone in the whole last state
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  Speaker 1: of Idaho who hasn't heard about these murders or who
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  Speaker 1: isn't following along with these murders. I mean, come on,
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  Speaker 1: where are you gonna find somebody who doesn't know what
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  Speaker 1: happened here, or at the very least the basics. So
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  Speaker 1: the whole idea that the family giving their opinion is
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  Speaker 1: going to taint the jury pool, I don't find that
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  Speaker 1: to be something that is hard hitting, to be honest
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  Speaker 1: with you. Now, if you ad agents of the court
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  Speaker 1: out here, prosecutors and otherwise, well that's a different story.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, I think that members of the public expect
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  Speaker 1: family members to be critical of somebody accused of a
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  Speaker 1: quadruple murder. That's usually how it works. But remember, whatever
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  Speaker 1: we think or say, it means little in that courtroom.
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  Speaker 1: The only opinions that are going to matter are the
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  Speaker 1: opinions of that jury. And I understand the idea, the
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  Speaker 1: concept behind trying to make sure that that jury pool
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  Speaker 1: is not tainted, but I find it to be a
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  Speaker 1: very very difficult argument to make these days, with technology
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  Speaker 1: being what it is now, does that mean that people
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  Speaker 1: should just be running around talking all kinds of nonsense, No,
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  Speaker 1: of course not. But if the Gonsalvas family wants to
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  Speaker 1: talk about how these murders have impacted their life and
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  Speaker 1: how they're feeling, I don't believe any court has the
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  Speaker 1: right to tell them that they have to shut up.
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  Speaker 1: They're not agents of the court, they don't work for
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  Speaker 1: the government of Idaho, they're not police officers. Let's remember
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  Speaker 1: they've been victimized here as well. So what we're going
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  Speaker 1: to do is tell the victims to shut up. Not
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  Speaker 1: really something I'm a fan of. And Taylor, the Cootney
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  Speaker 1: County public defender who previously represented one of the victim's
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  Speaker 1: parents and is now defending suspected killer Brian Koberger, also
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  Speaker 1: filed an objection to Gray's appeal Thursday. The new document
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  Speaker 1: show and you'll notice both of these objections are different.
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  Speaker 1: One says that it's all about Shannon Gray, and the
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  Speaker 1: other one is going after the family plus Shannon Gray.
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  Speaker 1: The defense argued that the order does not violate Gray's
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  Speaker 1: First Amendment right and it is not fascily vague, and
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  Speaker 1: notes that the Supreme Court has upheld gag orders on
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  Speaker 1: potential witnesses. If mister Gray truly intends only to voice
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  Speaker 1: his client's thoughts and opinions, then the Court's previous exemption
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  Speaker 1: has already cured the supposed First Amendment infirmity. Mister Gray's
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  Speaker 1: clients may voice these thoughts and opinions themselves, as they
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  Speaker 1: have clearly been doing, wrote Jay Weston Lodgson, an attorney
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  Speaker 1: with Taylor's office. Okay, so what is it? Can they
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  Speaker 1: say whatever they want or can't they? You have the
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  Speaker 1: prosecution saying in their motion that the family and Shannon
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  Speaker 1: Gray can talk. And then over here for Brian Koberger,
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  Speaker 1: the only point of contention that we see from Ann
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  Speaker 1: Taylor's office is that mister Gray is talking. Here they
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  Speaker 1: say that the first Amendment for the Gonsalves, well, that's
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  Speaker 1: being upheld when it's clearly not being upheld. So I
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  Speaker 1: think that's pretty interesting, and I'm I'm sure the judge
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  Speaker 1: is going to look closely at that. Additionally, Bradley Rudley,
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  Speaker 1: Leyta County's chief civil deputy prosecuting Attorney, filed a lengthy
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  Speaker 1: memorandum regarding the scope of a court's authority to impose
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  Speaker 1: gag orders on a case. And if you notice, that
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  Speaker 1: was the first episode we did this morning, all kinds
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  Speaker 1: of legalese, and there was all sorts of case law
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  Speaker 1: that was referred to in that memorandum and those court
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  Speaker 1: filings that were made by the state. I'll tell you
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  Speaker 1: what reading all of that made my head want a
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  Speaker 1: spin like the girl in The Exorcist. That's how I
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  Speaker 1: felt reading through all of that. Coberger is accused of
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  Speaker 1: killing Kayley Gun Salvis in three University of Idaho's students
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  Speaker 1: in the early hours of November thirteenth, twenty twenty two,
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  Speaker 1: ambushing them with a knife as some slept in his
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  Speaker 1: six bedroom house on King Road, just steps off of campus.
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  Speaker 1: The other victims were boyfriend and girlfriend Ethan Chapin and
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  Speaker 1: Ze Kernodle and Madison Mogan. Two other roommates were not attacked,
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  Speaker 1: including one who told police she witnessed a massed intruder
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  Speaker 1: with bushy eyebrows leaving out the back door. Coberger had
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  Speaker 1: stalked the home at least a dozen times beforehand, according
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  Speaker 1: to a probable cause affid David that was revealed most
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  Speaker 1: of the publicly known details about the investigation. Then, hours
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  Speaker 1: after the murders, he allegedly revisited the scene before taking
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  Speaker 1: a lengthy drive down to the Lewis Clark Valley. Coburger
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  Speaker 1: is being held without bail on four counts of first
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  Speaker 1: degree murder and a felony burglary charge. His preliminary hearing
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  Speaker 1: is scheduled for June twenty six. Well, folks, what do
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  Speaker 1: you think. Do you think that this gag order is
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  Speaker 1: broad and way too large in scope, or do you
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  Speaker 1: think it's tailor fit for exactly what's going on here.
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  Speaker 1: Shoot me some emails and let me know what you
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  Speaker 1: folks think. All right, folks, that's going to do it
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  Speaker 1: for this one. All of the information that goes with
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: this episode that can be found in the description box,
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  Speaker 1: Airline credit