Latest / The Inspired Stories Podcast / Cracking The Cramp Code with Filip Keuppens: The Science of Pickle Juice

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Cracking The Cramp Code with Filip Keuppens: The Science of Pickle Juice · The Inspired Stories Podcast

0:04
Welcome to another edition of the Inspired Stories podcast,
0:07
where leaders share their experiences so we can learn from
0:11
their successes and be inspired by how they've overcome
0:14
adversity. My name is Anthony Kotaspodi and
0:16
today's guest is Phillip Kupans, Executive Vice President of the
0:20
Pickle Juice Company, which was founded in 2001 and specializes
0:25
in providing an innovative electrolyte rich beverage
0:29
designed to combat muscle cramps and promote hydration.
0:33
Their unique product boasts 10 times the electrolytes of
0:37
traditional sports drinks, offering a natural and effective
0:40
solution for athletes and anyone prone to muscle cramps.
0:44
With a mission to provide hydration and cramp relief
0:47
through science based products, they become a leader in sports
0:49
nutrition, expanding their reach globally and even recently
0:53
embarking on a Canadian expansion.
0:56
Under Phillips leadership, the company has seen significant
0:59
growth and recognition within the industry.
1:02
Phillip himself brings a wealth of experience from his previous
1:05
roles at 20th Century Fox and Kraft Heinz, contributing
1:10
strategic insights that have propelled the pickle juice
1:12
company forward. His passion for innovation and
1:15
commitment to sustainability have been instrumental in
1:19
setting new standards in the food and beverage sector.
1:22
Now, before we get into all that good stuff, today's episode is
1:24
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1:52
Now back to our guest today, the Executive Vice President of the
1:55
Pickle Juice Company. Fella, I appreciate you making
1:58
the time to Share your story today.
2:00
Thanks for having me. That's quite an introduction.
2:03
I hope. I hope I can live up to it.
2:05
Oh, I'm sure that you will. I've got a little research on
2:07
you and I have no doubt. So tell us, Philip, where did
2:12
the idea for the pickle juice product first come from?
2:17
Sure, I was inspired by a football game.
2:20
Excuse me, I've got a bit of a bug in my throat, I think all of
2:22
a sudden. Hey, it's that time of year.
2:24
It was here right before Christmas and there's bugs going
2:28
around and changes. That's right.
2:31
Think I'm all right, so I apologize.
2:34
The inspiration came from an NFL game between the Philadelphia
2:37
Eagles and the Dallas Cowboys. It was the hottest game on
2:40
record and September of 2000 the surface temperature at the field
2:45
was something like 112° and the Cowboys were favored to win but
2:50
lost. And during the post game
2:53
interviews, the medical staff from the Eagles were me was
3:00
being interviewed and asked why their players weren't being
3:02
cramping. Weren't cramping, but the
3:04
Cowboys were and they said they were consuming pickle brine
3:08
right out of the jar. So that prompted some really
3:11
rudimentary studies from my my predecessors and and they
3:17
essentially started packaging pickle brine thinking there was
3:21
a market for that. There was a bit of a
3:24
regionalized kind of local market expanding to about 300
3:30
doors between 2001 and 2015. Then in 2015, I had the
3:35
opportunity to join the organization and we
3:39
reformulated, changed our go to market strategy a bit and since
3:44
then have been named one of the fastest growing food and
3:46
beverage companies in North America three out of the past
3:49
six years. So we've gone from approximately
3:53
300 total doors to 15,000 domestic doors and distribution
3:59
in the Pan Pacific based out of Australia.
4:04
We just opened up Europe, you mentioned the Canadian expansion
4:07
recently. So we've we've kind of become
4:10
this global brand in in less than 10 years.
4:12
And 2025 is going to represent a very large growth step for us as
4:19
well, where we'll be converting to kind of the next stage of our
4:24
evolution by injecting a significant amount of cash into
4:28
the business to let us scale at the rate that's consistent with
4:31
the demand. OK, so let's go back to that
4:34
Cowboys versus Eagles game. What was it that led the Eagles
4:38
to think that drinking pickle brine was going to be helpful in
4:42
that kind of environment? Yeah, I think it's part of the
4:45
old folk remedy, right? People said, Oh yeah, drink
4:47
pickle brine. And the assumption for years was
4:51
that it was the sodium that helped prevent the muscle
4:55
cramping. And people just kind of operated
4:59
under that assumption for a while, as did the the the pickle
5:02
juice company, to be completely transparent.
5:06
But it was a study in 2010 read by led by Doctor Kevin Miller
5:09
and BYU that discovered that muscle cramps are in fact a
5:13
neurological issue rather than a physiological issue.
5:17
So taking that information, we identified exactly how to
5:23
interact with the nerve receptors that cause muscle
5:26
cramping using a proprietary grain of acetic acid.
5:29
That acetic acid prevents the signal that causes a cramp at
5:34
the root rather than the physiological trigger.
5:37
So we've had a study done through the University of
5:41
Sterling with the UK national swim team about a year or two
5:45
ago and that had 100 found 100% efficacy in 82 seconds.
5:49
So now we've become the only product in the world that is
5:52
scientifically proven to stop muscle cramps and it does it in
5:55
an acute fashion. So it's not just for athletes,
5:58
it's for people who get night time leg cramps and things of
6:00
that nature. So it's not the sodium or the
6:03
electrolytes. There's something, there's a a
6:06
neurochemical process that takes place that's actually shutting
6:10
that cramp off. Sure.
6:12
So a muscle cramp is a attempt of corrective action to a
6:16
physiological trigger. So your brains going, hey,
6:18
something's wrong there, let's try to fix it.
6:21
And if you get a muscle exercise induced cramping, it's often
6:24
preceded by sort of rapid fire twinging, that Twing essentially
6:30
your body trying to affect a a massage from the inside out.
6:33
The release signal can't keep up with the corresponding engage
6:38
signal to that muscle, right? So if you like flex your bicep,
6:41
you have to release your tricep. Picture that on a
6:44
microbiological level and the signals sending like engage,
6:47
release, engage, release, the eventually the release signal
6:51
can't keep up with the engage signal.
6:53
You get a hyper engagement in the muscle and that's what we
6:55
call a muscle cramp or Charley horse.
6:57
What we do is we overwhelm that pathway with information thus
7:01
preventing that signal from getting through and it kind of
7:03
resets it. And then after that we flood the
7:06
area with electrolytes to to help prevent it from recurring.
7:11
When you say after that, but it's all still like part of the
7:14
same drink. It's not like A2 shot solution
7:16
kind of a thing. No, no, the the stages are based
7:19
on the absorption, right? So the the acetic acid goes to
7:24
work as soon as it touches your esophageal receptors at the back
7:27
of your throat, whereas the electrolytes need to take some
7:30
time to absorb into into your stream.
7:34
So it's whereas the neural inhibitors go to work
7:38
immediately, the absorption of the electrolytes takes a little
7:42
bit longer. So you reformulated it?
7:45
How much pickle juice is still in it?
7:48
Well, pickle juice is a trade name like Band-Aid, Xerox,
7:50
Kleenex, so I would argue there's a it's 100% pickle
7:53
juice. There's no pickle brine in it
7:55
though. It's actually got nothing to do
7:57
with Pickles if you think about it.
7:59
Nobody's out there really juicing Pickles, right?
8:02
So we just thought it was a clever name that spoke to the
8:08
product. It speaks to the flavor profile
8:12
it because it's a whole new approach to functional products.
8:16
We figured a relatively unintimidating name would be
8:21
easier for the the consumer to digest literally, and figure
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it's a pun intended. And we joke that if we call the
8:27
cramp stopper 9000, people probably a little more
8:29
reluctant. So well with pickle juice.
8:31
There is something fun about the pickle juice name.
8:34
So does it? Does it still taste like pickle
8:36
juice? It's still, it tastes a little
8:38
bit like pickle brine, Yeah, but it's, it's a much less
8:44
overwhelming version of it, I suppose.
8:46
And you said something just a second ago, a new approach to
8:50
functional beverages. What do you mean by that?
8:54
So there's been a trend to functional food and beverage
8:56
over the past, you know, decade, decade and 1/2 or so, right?
8:59
Everything's better for you and does this and does that.
9:02
And that's the other thing. But nobody's ever addressed this
9:04
at a neurological and acutely functional level before until we
9:09
came around and said, hey, instead of just, you know,
9:13
removing things that are bad for you and putting things that are
9:17
supposed to be good for you, let's see if we can actually use
9:21
naturally occurring ingredients. All our products are USA organic
9:24
certified and have an acute effect on the human body using
9:32
natural ingredients. So in addition to discovering
9:35
this neural inhibition component of certain types of acetic acid,
9:39
we're doing some work with faslodilation, we're doing some
9:42
work with recovery, we're doing some work with VIA 2 Max and
9:48
things like that. So it's, it's, it's kind of an
9:50
interesting new approach to, to the whole thing.
9:53
OK. I want to put a pin in sort of
9:55
future product development because it sounds like there's
9:57
some exciting stuff going on there, but I want to learn a
10:00
little bit more about the pickle juice product.
10:03
So is this something that people only drink once they've got a
10:08
muscle cramp, or would they take it sort of proactively to to
10:12
preempt something like that? It's a great question.
10:14
And because you're working from the occasion backwards, you kind
10:19
of want it it it'll stop the cramp for about 45 to 60
10:22
minutes. So you can take it before the
10:26
predictive cramp activity, right?
10:27
If, say, you're participating in a team sport that's 245 minute
10:31
halves, you can take it at the beginning and then at halftime
10:35
and you should be fine. NFL games, the same thing.
10:39
They'll take it prophylactically on the sidelines.
10:42
But if you're running a marathon for instance, and you're out
10:46
there for 3-4 hours, taking at the beginning of the marathon
10:49
isn't going to help you two or three hours in.
10:51
So you need to take it within that that window.
10:53
I, for instance, like to do endurance cycling.
10:56
So when I'm out around mile 50, I start having some issues and
11:00
that's about 2-3 hours in and I'll, I'll start taking the
11:03
pickle juice at that point and then again every 40 to 45
11:08
minutes until I'm done with that exertion.
11:11
So you can take it prophylactically, but only in a
11:14
small window. It's not like you would take a
11:16
supplement with your vitamins every morning and expect
11:18
results. Is it the kind of thing where
11:21
you can take too much of it, say that, you know, you're
11:24
participating in a, you know, 3 or 4 hour race or a marathon or
11:27
something like that, and if you were taking it, you know, once
11:30
every 45 minutes to an hour, Like, are there negative side
11:33
effects from too much? I mean, everybody's different,
11:38
but we we haven't found any, you know, toxicity components.
11:45
A lot of people are concerned about the sodium levels, but I
11:48
think that's because a lot of people don't understand the role
11:50
of sodium in our diet, right? It all Harkins back to this one
11:53
study conducted in the 70s, which we found, which has been
11:56
disproven 40 to 50 times, but and that study was sponsored by
12:01
the sugar industry. So I think they're trying to
12:05
divert some attention and fortunately we've become more
12:08
educated. Look over here.
12:09
Look over here. Exactly.
12:11
But so we've become a little more educated as consumers and,
12:15
you know, some people still think that sodium is bad for you
12:17
until they realize that 62% of the electrolytes in the human
12:20
body are sodium. And if you're exerting the
12:23
probability of losing sodium before anything else because of
12:27
its presence in your sweat and other things is a lot higher
12:32
than any other electrolyte that you might lose, whether it be
12:36
potassium, magnesium, whatever. So I think with a better
12:39
understanding of that and, and also knowing that you, the only
12:43
thing that actually hydrates the human body is water, right?
12:46
Everything else just helps that that water do its job or be
12:50
retained or be processed in a way that is, is functional.
12:55
And I call electrolytes more like they're the communication
12:58
and they're the communication system as well as the, the sort
13:03
of absorption system for your, your body.
13:06
And we've heard stories of people being electrolyte
13:09
deficient, taking water, but that water gets flushed out and
13:13
they'll have dehydration issues despite consuming a lot of
13:15
water. So you you you still need to
13:17
drink a lot of water, but as long as you're taking taking in
13:20
the the right amount of water and your exertion measures are
13:24
are are consistent with your intake you should be fine.
13:27
I've taken 6 in one day before and I had any problems.
13:31
Would this be something that replaces like the Gatorade
13:35
intake for an athlete or would it be something that would be
13:38
done in addition to? Yeah, I think it's, it's
13:42
traditional sports drinks have kind of gotten away from being
13:45
hyper functional and more into sort of commercial entities, if
13:50
you will. So a lot of them now contain
13:52
artificial colors and flavors. They contain sugar and other
13:56
additives that are more designed for the consumption experience
13:59
rather than the functional experience.
14:01
So if if you're exerting at a very high level, those
14:07
additional sort of unnecessary and sometimes counteractive
14:11
ingredients can reduce the efficiency with what your body
14:15
works. So in many ways this could be
14:18
for, depending on the situation, could be not not only a
14:22
replacement, but but a wiser approach to traditional sports
14:25
drinks, particularly if those sports drinks contain sugar and
14:29
your, your, your, your exertion is over a prolonged period of
14:34
time. A lot of people get that sugar
14:36
crash, which can prevent completion of whatever it is
14:39
that you're doing. So I I think in certain
14:42
circumstances it certainly is a replacement for traditional
14:44
sports drinks. Are there athletes or sports
14:47
teams that are using the product that you're allowed to talk
14:50
about? Sure.
14:52
We've got about 3/4 of the NFL purchasing the product we've
14:55
got. We're very big in world rugby
14:58
and cricket because of our personal history.
15:01
A lot of us here have a rugby background ourselves.
15:03
So that sort of gave us access to that space.
15:07
So it's being used by everybody from the South African,
15:12
Springboks, New Zealand, all blasts to your, to your local
15:16
club teams in the US and, and it's being used by NCAA sports
15:22
across the United States. I mean, everything from your
15:25
peewee league all the way up to your pro leagues.
15:27
It's, it's presence in high level sports is a lot more
15:32
common than people think. We, we have this thing we call
15:35
the brag book, which is just photos of TV screens when we,
15:38
when we sort of spot pickle juice in the wild.
15:40
And it's a lot of fun to see your retail products being
15:43
consumed in on the big stage. We saw Daniel Medvedev drinking
15:49
it during the Australian Open final a couple years ago.
15:52
That was pretty cool. So how would somebody spot it?
15:56
Are people using like I'm looking at your website here,
15:58
which by the way is pickle power.com and there's this
16:02
bright yellow top and the labeling is very colorful,
16:07
bright yellow and green. Are are people consuming it like
16:10
out of an individual single serve bottle or is there like,
16:13
you know, like a big, you know, thermos that people are sort of
16:16
dispensing in firms? No, when we see that in use at
16:20
the pro levels, it's it's usually purchased and by the
16:25
athletic trainers and they're putting it in the kind of their,
16:27
their, their, their kit bag or I had the pleasure of working with
16:34
a very good athletic trainer in the rugby space a couple weeks
16:36
ago. He called it his Ouch pouch and
16:39
I thought that was pretty great. So when they run out of the
16:42
field with their Ouch pouch, if you will, they'll pull it out.
16:46
And, and one bottle is in fact one dose.
16:48
So our, our studies are based on using 10 milliliters per 10 KGS
16:54
of body weight. So a a 2 1/2 ounce bottle, 75
16:58
milliliters will will cover most endurance athletes, some you
17:03
know, NFL players or, or or rugby players or just big NBA
17:07
players that are just big human beings might consider might take
17:11
2IN1 dose. But we we've seen really good
17:18
results and really good efficacy numbers.
17:22
So you guys have achieved certifications like USD Organic
17:26
and OU Kosher. These certifications I I know
17:30
from experience are not inexpensive to obtain.
17:34
They they take time to do. Why was this an important step
17:38
for the company to take? Well, we figure if we're trying
17:42
to create hyper functional products in a, in a healthy
17:48
space and respond to the needs, the demands of the consumer
17:53
base, which is to have less chemicals in our diet.
17:58
And you're also creating a product that is, is brand new
18:02
and has a really high level of functionality.
18:05
So we wanted to really be transparent, but we also wanted
18:10
to create consumer confidence in in the product.
18:14
As a matter of fact, there's a funny anecdote.
18:16
We were asked by the Australian national cricket team to to
18:21
provide a, a WADA certification letter, which is the World Anti
18:26
Doping Agency. And so we sent this product to
18:29
inform sports, which is a a testing agency, but our foods,
18:35
our, our products considered a food, right?
18:37
So they said, you know, this is like the same as sending us a
18:40
banana, right? We're like, yeah.
18:42
But so it's kind of a great backhanded compliment, right?
18:45
Right. So it's kind of a great
18:46
backhanded compliment that they couldn't, they had a difficult
18:49
time believing that something that's USD organic and natural
18:54
could be that functional and and serve a purpose that that that
18:58
frankly works better than any pharmaceutical product that has
19:01
ever been devised to treat that specific ailment.
19:06
That is a great story and it, and it kind of drives home kind
19:11
of the, the amazing thing that you guys have accomplished,
19:14
because I know from past business experiences that, you
19:18
know, not all ingredients are available in a certified organic
19:22
format. And so to have, you know, WADA,
19:25
the the doping agency say, hey, this is sort of a weird thing
19:28
for us to test because it's a food like, you know, I, I'm
19:33
curious sort of while we're on anecdotes, are there any other
19:37
specific stories of maybe your product being used in the wild
19:42
that might, might be fun to share?
19:46
Yeah, there's a, there's a few, there's a really neat one, and
19:50
it's just because the story associated with it is so cool.
19:54
There's a a tennis player, an American tennis player named
19:58
Francis Tfo, who is this really fantastic sort of regs to riches
20:03
story. He, he grew up, he was the son
20:06
of an immigrant. His father was a groundskeeper
20:09
at a Country Club in the DC area.
20:11
And he and his brother just kind of hung out there and picked up
20:16
a tennis racket. And then Francis made his first
20:20
ever quarter final at the Australian Open.
20:24
And I think it was on his 21st birthday.
20:26
So this is this is you couldn't have scripted a better story.
20:30
And he was so complimentary to our product, helping him get to
20:34
that stage of the tournament. And then the tournament itself
20:41
employed doctors and research scientists and like, how does
20:43
this stuff work? We had no clue that this whole
20:46
like study was going on, that this is going on until after the
20:51
fact. Somebody was like, hey, did you
20:52
guys see this? And we're like, wow, that's
20:53
awesome. It was, it was really neat.
20:57
Then, unfortunately, Francis lost to Rafael Nadal in the next
21:00
round that everybody loses to Rafael.
21:03
No shame there. What is?
21:05
Connection to Australia I've I've heard you mention the
21:09
connection to Australian sports several times.
21:11
Well, a couple of things. One, as I mentioned we have a
21:14
background and rugby. I played rugby.
21:17
Blake, our our sales and marketing director played rugby.
21:21
We have other people that worked here throughout the past that
21:26
played rugby. So we kind of have access to
21:28
that space because we know people at a very high level.
21:31
We were able to get teams to kind of test and trial this
21:34
early in that space. But a big thing too is there's a
21:38
lot of visibility coming out of markets that are not the US
21:40
because they have less restrictions often times from
21:47
branding exclusivities, right? So in the United States, you
21:50
have a lot of branding exclusivity by the large
21:54
beverage manufacturers like Pepsi and Coke who own Gatorade
21:59
and Powerade. And they'll have like a branding
22:01
exclusivity thing. Doesn't mean that they're the
22:04
products that are being consumed out of their vessels, their
22:08
branded vessels, if you will. Are those products, right?
22:12
The liability associated with that's too high, but you can't
22:15
have any other brand on the sideline.
22:19
So it's more rare that you'd see anything that's not part of that
22:25
branding. Exclusivity contracts in US
22:27
sport now you see it periodically with our product
22:31
because it's coming on as a treatment methodology from the
22:35
athletic training staff rather than, you know, the the general
22:40
sideline staff or whatever. But in Australia you don't have
22:45
these these restrictions. The the other thing is that
22:50
there's less of a confusion between pickle brine and pickle
22:54
juice in a country that has no Pickles.
22:58
So like they don't have. Pickles.
23:00
They don't have a pickle culture at all.
23:02
As a matter of fact, most of them really dislike Pickles.
23:06
I've been told that the only place you can find it.
23:10
Well, I've been told that the only place you can find a pickle
23:12
in Australia is on a cheeseburger at McDonald's,
23:16
which they then remove. And I've been told that young,
23:20
younger people, after a spirited night out, we'll say we'll go to
23:24
McDonald's and they'll take the pickle chips off and throw them
23:27
on a window and and race them down the window.
23:30
I've been told this anecdote. I haven't participated, but
23:33
Needless to say, there's not a huge pickle culture in
23:35
Australia. So do.
23:36
They like cucumbers. Is that a thing?
23:38
I. Just, I don't know.
23:39
We haven't really, we haven't really approached that subject.
23:42
Maybe we should. All right.
23:43
Well, something else that's interesting about your company,
23:46
Philip, is sustainability seems to be like it's a big part of
23:50
the company's mission. You guys have, you've got some
23:53
eco friendly packaging initiatives that you've brought
23:56
out that to my understanding didn't increase production
24:01
costs. I'm kind of curious to hear more
24:03
about that and how you were able to find that balance.
24:06
Yeah, there's, I think it was a president of Intuit years ago
24:10
said something that really resonated with me and, and that
24:12
was that companies are no longer what they claim to be.
24:16
The companies are what people tell each other that they are,
24:20
right. So we no longer control the
24:23
narrative and, and we as product producers and, and whatever it
24:27
is branding people, we need to realize that we live in such a
24:31
transparent, educated society that we, you need to be what you
24:35
claim to be. You can't just create this this
24:39
public image of your organization and expect to get
24:42
away with it. Not that we would, but other
24:45
companies have. And we've heard of huge
24:47
scandals. You know, the, the Volkswagen
24:49
emissions scandal comes to mind when you have an organization
24:51
that big trying to sort of get away with something, if you
24:56
will. So we said, look, we're trying
25:00
to treat people in a healthier way, which means that we need to
25:04
ourselves act in a healthy way. And despite the fact that we use
25:08
plastic because it's the most efficient way to package our
25:11
product, all that plastic is 100% recycled.
25:16
All of our boxes are 100% recycled.
25:19
So while, you know, we're, we're using very slow to degrade
25:24
materials, in some cases, we're not creating new plastics where
25:29
we're actually working with companies that are recycling old
25:33
and used plastics. And through a lot of innovations
25:37
working with these companies, we're able to keep those costs
25:42
consistent with unrecycled, unrecycled products.
25:47
And, and in many cases, we've been sort of on the forefront of
25:50
those initiatives. And then you see the market
25:54
catching up. And we just do that because we
25:58
feel it's, it's, it's the right thing to do.
26:01
And if you're going to do something on one end, you have
26:05
to do it across the board. Otherwise, you're really being
26:07
dishonest about who you are. So Phillip, as the Executive
26:12
Vice President, you've been able to grow or play a part in
26:16
growing the company to over $10 million in annual revenue.
26:20
I'm kind of curious to hear about some of the key strategies
26:24
that you've helped to put in place that have fueled this
26:27
growth. Yeah.
26:31
You know, I guess necessity is the mother of all invention in
26:33
some cases. And having historically worked
26:36
with very large organizations and, and, and robust budgets
26:43
and, and resources and, and teams to do stuff for you, you
26:47
know that that takes and, and moving to really an emerging
26:51
company takes, takes a bit of getting used to and a shift and
26:56
a willingness to learn and adapt.
27:00
So we sort of had to develop this go to market strategy that
27:04
takes elements from the traditional CPG models, the
27:07
experiential model and the mission based models and really
27:12
build from a, a, the grass roots up and and out model instead of
27:18
just, instead of just like broad launching and, and mass
27:21
penetration through forced awareness.
27:24
So developing those unique models out of necessity and, and
27:29
not having a marketing budget really to speak of.
27:31
I mean, we don't do any paid media, We don't do any paid
27:35
advertising. Everything we do is either
27:38
through editorial content or through true collaborative
27:42
partnerships with brand ambassadors.
27:44
None of them are paid, but we do work with them on building their
27:49
brands and and we do believe in building non transactional
27:54
relationships with those people who are, are advocates.
27:57
Because again, going back to that transparency thing that's
28:01
real, that's, that's somebody saying, I believe in this
28:05
product and my access to the company can help you try it as
28:11
well. So that, that, that kind of
28:13
helps their credibility, helps our credibility and we create
28:16
these, these really nice partnerships and in turn get to
28:19
work with some of the coolest people out there, right?
28:22
I mean, there are very few people that are more centered
28:26
and focused than ultra runners. They're they're just an
28:30
incredible class of people. Endurance cyclists, same thing.
28:36
People participating in sport at the highest level, you know, you
28:40
really learn what singular focus and determination and
28:46
perseverance looks like and, and you get to learn a lot from
28:50
these people, which is really cool.
28:52
So I'm hearing you say, hey, don't have a marketing budget,
28:55
we don't do paid media, paid ads working with, I'm going to use
29:01
the word influencers, people that are in the spaces that
29:04
would be highly relevant to sort of broadcasting the message and
29:08
the efficacy of your product. And that does sound like a it
29:12
can be a really effective strategy for that grassroots
29:15
growth. But I also heard you say earlier
29:18
in the interview that you guys went from 300 to 15,000 doors.
29:23
So that indicates to me a rather sophisticated distribution
29:29
strategy too. Can you talk a little bit about
29:31
that? Sure.
29:34
In 2015, we really didn't have a distribution strategy per SE.
29:37
We, we, we weren't really operating like ACPG company.
29:41
There was no SRP in place. There was no distribution
29:44
infrastructure in place. It was, it was just built more
29:48
like a, a manufacturing company's structure and culture.
29:55
So for, for a couple of years, we, we had to put in some basic
29:59
CPG strategies, creating consistent SRP across the board,
30:04
create creating pricing models, getting our products accepted
30:09
into traditional distribution channels for the, the retail
30:15
industry. So that really just came from,
30:20
you know, practice and experience and CPG frankly
30:23
knowing that was essential to getting our product out there,
30:27
but not having the ability to deficit spend because frankly
30:31
the revenue just wasn't there and then the tools weren't
30:33
there. We couldn't do things like pay
30:35
for placement or anything like that.
30:37
So we really had to create a story that was based on the
30:44
product's functionality and really hyper target based on
30:47
demographic need. So we can kind of get these
30:50
early placement pieces, then take the data that was realized
30:55
from that, like turns that and things like that and sell purely
30:59
on a on a data story, on a revenue story without the tools
31:05
that a lot of other CPG companies have.
31:07
You know, it's traditional where you buy shelf space.
31:10
Well, we couldn't do that, so we haven't been able to do that.
31:13
I think that strategy may shift in the near future.
31:18
But as a result, we've also all these doors we acquire
31:21
organically and naturally and through meeting demand rather
31:26
than prematurely purchasing space leads to some of the best
31:31
per unit turns I've ever seen in my career.
31:33
I mean we're seeing you know anywhere between 10 and 20 units
31:37
turning per door per week at most of our retailers, which is
31:42
a a pretty high turn number in traditional CPG products, non
31:48
seasonal stuff. So you get into one of these
31:52
doors, I guess I'm both I'm surprised and impressed that the
31:58
the turnover is is high. And in this case we're talking
32:01
about good turnover, not like employee turnover.
32:03
The the product turnover is, is so high because you don't have
32:08
that marketing budget. So it's not like, correct me if
32:11
I'm wrong, what there's something I'm missing.
32:14
How are you guys turning over so many products without sort of
32:17
that big national marketing budget that's driving people
32:19
into the stores? It's the bottom up approach.
32:22
So what we'll do is rather than focusing on creating broadline
32:29
awareness, we take this experiential approach model and
32:36
hyper target our users. Now the cool thing is we have a
32:40
product that's acutely functional.
32:42
So you drink it and you have a cramp and that cramp goes away
32:45
immediately. So you can you make a direct
32:47
association with that experience on a holistic level.
32:51
So very simply, we said, OK, let's find people where they're
32:55
cramping. And we partner with about 500
32:58
nonprofit, what I call participatory endurance events.
33:04
So you'll see our product at like 8 stations on on big bike
33:08
rides like the 100 and Hell 100, which is you and 10,000 of your
33:13
closest friends riding 100 riding your bicycle for 100
33:17
miles in Texas heat. None of my friends would do
33:20
that. Maybe your friends would fill.
33:23
We've got different sets. Of one out of 10,000 maybe, but
33:30
so you'll find us activating at these events, but it's it's not
33:34
a general tasting experience. It's a getting them when they
33:38
need it and they're like holy cow, this really works.
33:42
And you know, it's it's not just athletes at cramp right.
33:46
We call that more of our credibility play, but a lot of
33:50
our consumers are people who get night time leg cramps.
33:53
And we joke that, you know, we're we're engaging with the
33:57
athletes because it's kind of creepy to find a night time leg
34:01
cramper and hand it to them when they need it because we probably
34:05
probably get in a lot of trouble and not, not, not a path we want
34:08
to go down. But kidding aside, it's it's
34:12
also very difficult and expensive to reach the senior
34:17
and boomer market because they do rely more on traditional
34:20
media and and less on sort of viral media and viral awareness,
34:26
if you will. So if we can get, you know, a
34:30
handful of people talking on a in a running group, right about,
34:35
hey, I use this to stop muscle cramps that all of a sudden hits
34:39
every user within that group and then every user shares it with
34:43
their other groups, right? So we can get this experience
34:47
where we can get it in the hands of the right person who's focal
34:51
on online to spread that message.
34:55
And they're like, and then you get that validation through
34:57
other people like, Oh yeah, I've heard that too.
35:01
So that's been very, very successful for us.
35:04
And you know, it's those opportunities, you know, they,
35:09
they kind of Max out. So being completely transparent,
35:11
I think we're going to have to be a little more open, if you
35:17
will, to, to, to things that look more like traditional media
35:22
without really going over the top and, and making people think
35:26
that we're trying to control our own narrative, which is a big
35:29
key to our success, is our transparency by not controlling
35:32
our narrative. Obviously people can find the
35:36
product online@picklepower.com. What?
35:39
And you said you're in 15,000 doors now.
35:41
Are there popular chains that you know people might be able to
35:45
pop into where they live and find this?
35:47
Sure, they can find them in most of their grocery stores,
35:50
Walmart, sporting goods stores like Academy, your local bike
35:56
shops, some of your local run shops.
35:58
So it's it's pretty broad. But if you go to
36:00
ourwebsite@picklepower.com, Scroll down to the bottom of the
36:04
homepage and there's a store locator there.
36:07
You can kind of pop in your zip code and all of that stuff is
36:11
fed by Nielsen and IRI based on retail scans.
36:15
So as long as the retailer was reporting to Nielsen and IRI,
36:19
it'll it'll pop up in there. Philip, tell us a little bit
36:23
about your previous background in CPG.
36:26
What did you do? How have these skill sets
36:30
translated well for pickle juice?
36:33
Sure. Well, I I started off my career
36:36
thinking I was gonna be a professional skier.
36:38
So that didn't work. But so I said, well, what am I
36:43
gonna do with myself? And I thought I'd go study
36:47
hospitality management and then realize that the people who run
36:50
the resorts do a lot of work and don't get to enjoy them very
36:53
much. So I quickly broadened my
36:56
horizons and, and studied economics and got a graduate
37:00
degree in, in business. And then I ended up working with
37:06
Heinz and because of the hospitality connection and the
37:09
food science connection. So I was in sales for Heinz for
37:13
a couple of years until somebody came up to me and said, Hey, how
37:17
would you like to sell movies instead of catch up and make
37:21
more money? And I said sure.
37:24
And then the, the next company came across and said, Hey,
37:27
you're pretty good at this. How would you like to do it for
37:31
us? And, and be responsible for our,
37:34
our club channel of trade and, and work on the, on the mass
37:39
team and, and this emerging company called Amazon.
37:42
If you wanna work with them, that'd be cool.
37:44
We're like, sure. And then that was great.
37:47
That was wonderful. It was like printing money back
37:50
in those days. And then the industry ended
37:54
overnight, right. So we went from doing about $5
38:01
billion in in sales with one of the companies I worked with to
38:06
almost zero when the shift went from physical media to digital
38:13
media. But during that process, we were
38:16
a pretty complex organization where we weren't really sales
38:22
people per say. We're more like analysts and,
38:25
and, and, and projectors. Because the the decay curve on
38:31
physical media like a DVD is 80% / 4 weeks.
38:36
And in order to get those big elaborate displays that you used
38:41
to see like Best Buy and Walmart and Target and stuff, we gave
38:46
the retailers 100% return privileges.
38:49
Now, the reason I'm saying all of this is because I got really
38:52
good at business analytics and understanding consumer behavior
38:56
and things like that because it was such a big part of what we
38:58
did earlier. So I applied that knowledge
39:00
center into this emerging space and took a completely different
39:08
approach that I think most emerging brands would take.
39:11
And it allowed us to be have a lower barrier to entry from a
39:16
price point perspective. So that we could introduce the
39:19
product at a a price point that was attractive to the consumer
39:25
and and figure out creative means and and methods of
39:30
building the awareness so that the supply and demand
39:32
equilibrium point kind of met. We do feel that our to this date
39:38
our demand still exceeds our supply and we know that because
39:42
we do demographic analysis and we we know that our consumer we
39:47
under index with seniors and boomers and we know there's a
39:52
very strong use case there. And we also know that reaching
39:56
them requires a larger commitment to traditional sort
40:01
of media and brand building methodologies.
40:05
So we think that we haven't even.
40:09
Tapped 30% of the market yet? So you talked about your
40:15
experience with selling physical media and one of the strategies
40:19
that you used was allowing retailers to be able to return
40:23
any product that didn't sell, right?
40:25
Sort of takes away the the risk profile for them.
40:29
Did you, you or are you continuing to use the same
40:32
strategy with pickle juice with your retailers?
40:34
They have the ability to return if it doesn't turn over.
40:38
Well, with a, with a, with a consumable product, it's, it's,
40:41
it's a lot. The guaranteed sale model looks
40:44
a little bit differently because you can't, you can't reuse it,
40:47
right? You don't know what's happened
40:49
to it when it was out there. So, but what we do have is any
40:56
time we hear a negative experience, we view that as an
41:01
opportunity to engage with our customer base, right?
41:05
Because if they care enough to contact you about a negative
41:11
experience, it, it could be something, something was damaged
41:14
and, and transit that we, we can't, we can't control.
41:17
Or they're the way they're using it isn't consistent with how it
41:23
would be used. Sometimes you get people
41:24
expecting pickle brine and they're like, I'm trying to
41:27
brine a chicken and it's not working.
41:29
And you know, you, you see all sorts of stuff.
41:32
But, but if those people care enough to speak with their
41:36
voices rather than just with their wallets, that's an
41:39
opportunity to create, to, to build, to create an ambassador
41:42
for you. So we are we're very, very
41:45
customer service centric and we really believe in you know
41:51
recruiting a cadre of advocates from our consumer base.
41:55
And I think that approach has has helped us from the guarantee
41:59
perspective because again, these people are out there, even even
42:03
the ones that are doing online, right, spending the word that
42:06
the average runners and cyclists and stuff, they're doing their
42:09
own research, right? So you got a one to one ratio
42:12
versus team sports where you have a A1 to say 53 ratio with
42:18
the NFL, right? And the athlete in that, in that
42:23
space who's being given this product might not know what it
42:26
is or, or, or, or how it works, just that their cramps gone and
42:30
they can go back to playing the endurance athlete or the, the,
42:35
the engaged consumer becomes that advocate.
42:38
So rather than just doing this like return privilege thing, we,
42:42
we just engage with that consumer and make sure that
42:45
they, they feel like they're part of the process.
42:47
They feel like they, they have access to real human beings, not
42:50
a phone tree that just tells you, we'll dismiss anything you
42:53
want to say and make you feel like you've been hurt.
42:56
So yeah, we pick up our phones here.
42:59
So you guys are all about innovation, Phillip.
43:02
Any other products that have come out or things that are in
43:05
the works that you can give voice to?
43:08
Yeah. We had our first successful line
43:09
extension introducing a chili lime pickle juice about a year
43:14
and a half ago. And that's going really, really
43:15
well. And we're looking at some stuff
43:19
in the lab. I've got some ideas that we're
43:21
looking at maybe a product that is aimed specifically at the
43:27
Boomer and Senior night nighttime like cramping
43:33
experience, if you will. We're looking at some faster
43:36
dilation type stuff. We're looking at some recovery
43:39
stuff. We're looking at a product that
43:42
we feel might be able to increase the oxygenation levels
43:45
of red, red blood spells, thus increasing VO2 Max.
43:50
So. And this would pass the the WADA
43:53
screening as well. Yeah, we only use 100% natural
43:56
ingredients. What we do and, and a lot of it
43:59
is it's it's kind of simplifying things that already exist and
44:03
just figuring out how to jam it in a, in a package really.
44:06
We, we know that nitrates help increase the oxygenation level
44:11
of red blood cells and we know that beetroot contains a ton of
44:15
nitrates. The problem is you, you'd have
44:17
to eat like two dozen beets to get the, the results of this,
44:22
your VO2 Max results. So we're like, OK, well, how do
44:25
we concentrate the nitrates of 24 beats and put in a bottle?
44:29
And it sounds oversimplified, but that's really where our
44:33
research starts. And then it's going through the
44:36
scientific process to see if it's possible.
44:40
So that that's, that's kind of the fun part with product
44:43
development is, is you're not really limited by, especially if
44:48
you're using natural and organic ingredients, you're, you're not
44:51
really limited by anything other than your own creativity.
44:55
And sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
44:58
That's part of the innovation process is you get you try
45:01
things out and you stub your toe and you learn things along the
45:04
way. So we already addressed you did
45:07
early on about some of the misconceptions about sodium in
45:10
products. I hear you talk about, you know,
45:12
high nitrates and I'm thinking, wow, well, from what I've heard
45:16
that that's bad for you too, if you speak to that point.
45:21
I mean, Bad's relative, I guess, you know, I, I think a lot of
45:24
that stuff we're, we're looking, we're realizing now that a lot
45:27
of the stuff we consume on a day-to-day basis is, has less to
45:31
do with the origin of the, the, the ingredient and, and more
45:37
with what has been attached to it or how it's been processed.
45:40
So, you know, we're learning now that things like yellow #5 that
45:46
has been proven to like alter the DNA in Lab Rats when given
45:49
high doses of it. It's, it's in so much of our
45:54
food, right? Unnecessary things that just
45:59
make it look neater or or taste a certain way or replace a more
46:06
expensive ingredient. And I think that we as
46:10
manufacturers need to take on the responsibility of creating
46:15
healthier products for people because the regulators don't
46:18
seem to be going down that path or, or not at a rate that those
46:23
of us who are concerned about what is being put in the the
46:26
bodies of people is, you know, we're, we feel that it more
46:31
needs to be done and quicker. So we're taking that task on
46:34
ourselves. So when we look at things like
46:36
nitrates, we're really looking at, you know, where is, where
46:39
are these conceptions coming from?
46:41
And is this factual science or is this a misconception?
46:47
And we can't really be bothered by misconceptions and we take it
46:51
on as our task to re educate on misconceptions.
46:56
We won't make any claims that we can't back with scientific
46:59
research and evidence. I mean, we've heard so many
47:02
anecdotal stories about our flagship product, pickle juice
47:05
helping different elements, but we we don't claim those.
47:09
We don't go to market with those unless we can.
47:12
We can prove them definitively through research and studies.
47:17
And so that'll be part of the process obviously that you go
47:19
through as you're investigating other product ideas like the
47:22
nitrates one that we were just talking about.
47:25
Right, Yeah, usually I'm I'm the first lab rat and then then
47:29
after that you said the. Canary in the coal mine if you
47:32
make it up then. That's right.
47:34
That's we'll take the next step in the research.
47:37
Though though I can you, I can't tell you, a few of my staff have
47:39
been Leary when I come out of the lab, I'm like, I hand them
47:42
out a, you know, a beaker and I'm like, hey, try this.
47:45
They're like, what is it? I'm not telling you that's
47:49
that's something some folks have to get used to, right?
47:52
When they see you walking out of the lab and you're glowing
47:54
electric green like that, that'll be the time to really be
47:57
concerned. There is a page in my lab
47:59
notebook that says buy Benadryl. Just in case.
48:05
No, no, no. That was a.
48:06
That was a. Response to something.
48:08
You need it now. Yeah.
48:09
So tell us about the expansion into Canada.
48:14
Yeah. So we, we were very fortunate to
48:18
to find, identify and partner with a a group that was really
48:23
experienced in launching new products in Canada.
48:25
They launched Red Bull Body Armor and some some big buy and
48:30
a bunch of really big brands. And they took an interest in
48:33
pickle juice and we brought it to market and we went from zero
48:37
to 1100 doors in less than 12 months.
48:40
So that's pretty exciting. And the interesting thing there
48:44
is because this group is so good at getting distribution that we
48:49
that model looks a little more traditional.
48:51
So now we're chasing the awareness a little bit because
48:53
the we are seeing that the the per door turns are a little
48:56
lower than we would have expected.
48:59
So now we're chasing that market with I trying to identify hyper
49:07
consumers and and real brand ambassadors.
49:11
You know, you use the term influencer earlier and we don't
49:14
pay any of our brand ambassadors.
49:15
Usually what we do is we find people that are already vocal
49:18
about the product and just formalize our relationship and
49:22
because they're true users. So now we're finding that in
49:28
markets like Europe and Canada, we, we have to identify more of
49:33
those. And we're actually really
49:35
excited to, to share that. We're, we're, we've partnered
49:41
with a really high profile professional cycling team called
49:45
Turbo Velo. They're the one of the best
49:49
track cycling teams in the world.
49:51
They've got the number 2 ranked rider in the world, the Italian
49:55
national champion, Canadian champion, and we're going to be
49:59
their title partner next year. So you're gonna see a Turbo Velo
50:04
presented by pickle juice team. They've got about 1712 pro
50:07
riders and 70 club level emerging riders that we're
50:10
really excited to, to be partnering with.
50:12
And Ryan Chrissie, the the sort of the founder, organizer and
50:17
coach of that program has done an amazing job.
50:19
We're just super excited to partner with with that team and
50:23
with people like Ryan. And so those are the kind of
50:26
things that we're doing now in those markets to make sure that
50:29
aware that awareness is is being captured, but also in a in a
50:34
true authentic way. You kind of made reference to
50:38
this in the early part of the interview about there may be
50:41
being some rather substantial growth even beyond the curve
50:46
that you guys have seen coming up.
50:49
I kind of took that to mean that maybe there's some outside money
50:52
that's going to get thrown on to be kind of fuel to the fire.
50:55
Am I connecting the dots in the right way?
50:57
We spent a lot of our resources building our our manufacturing
51:01
infrastructure. So in 2015, we opened a
51:05
manufacturing plant and quickly outgrew it.
51:09
We also had a catastrophic failure to one of the key
51:11
components of the bottling equipment, which forced us to
51:16
expand into a new facility a lot quicker than we were
51:19
anticipating. So any reserve capital we had
51:24
was dedicated to building stuff, if you will.
51:29
What we've done is created a future proof, a facility that is
51:35
up currently operating at about 20 to 25% capacity.
51:38
So we have our infrastructure built, our manufacturing built
51:44
and we're now able to shift that sort of manufacturing centric
51:51
mindset into a more traditional CPG space, which in turn
51:56
relieves a lot of that cash flow to allow us to deficit spend a
52:00
little bit into things like placement and, and and building
52:06
our our sales team. We've added four heads in the
52:10
last two months just on the sales and marketing side.
52:13
So it's, it's, it's more of a shift in strategy and resources.
52:18
And so these sales people, are they primarily dedicated into
52:24
getting, you know, more relationships with sort of the
52:26
the Walmarts and the Wyman's and the Whole Foods of the world?
52:29
Are they also selling into like sports teams or there's like non
52:33
traditional outlets? Yeah, we have everybody's sort
52:38
of segmented. I guess we we have a channel
52:42
distribution manager or channel growth manager for the grocery
52:48
and independent retail side of things.
52:50
Then we have a a channel growth manager for our impulse and C
52:56
store space. Those are new positions.
52:59
We have, you know, Cat Myers who handles our what we call HPLR
53:04
high profile, low revenue sales. And that's kind of the stuff
53:08
like to NFL account NFL teams and things like that, which is a
53:11
lot more, it's more of a, a much more personal interaction.
53:16
And there's a consultative component to it to make sure
53:19
that they have access to our expertise as it comes to
53:23
administering the product. So those relationships are built
53:27
by by Kat and her efforts to, you know, we're going to
53:32
National Athletic Trainers Association's conferences to
53:35
teach athletic trainers on the the new science of muscle
53:39
cramping and how to prevent it. So we're coming at that segment
53:43
from an education component rather than a sales component.
53:47
And then we have, you know, Michelle and Alec are also
53:50
working on our industrial space, our emerging markets and things
53:54
like that. So and then, then Maddie is
53:57
managing a lot of our marketing initiatives are creating content
54:02
and, and all that stuff. So, and, and, and Blake's doing
54:06
a little bit of everything. He's, he's been fantastic.
54:10
So, you know, really is a collaborative team effort when
54:13
it comes to bringing the product to market.
54:15
And you know, nobody here will ever say, it's not my job.
54:19
It's, we kind of feel it's, it's everybody's job, right?
54:22
And I, I'm working events on weekends just like everybody
54:25
else is. I, you know, I'm, I'm going to
54:27
these trade shows just like everybody else is.
54:29
I think it's important for us to maintain a pulse on our
54:34
consumers so that that means everybody from the top all the
54:38
way down to the newest employee will go work, work a marathon or
54:46
an ultra marathon or a bike race.
54:47
So we went through 17 back in boxes at the Dallas Marathon
54:52
last Sunday. And that's what is that that's,
54:55
let's see, 85 gallons on course. So how many servings is that?
55:03
That is, let's see times 128. Two is 5440 servings.
55:13
My goodness, that's quite a few. Well.
55:16
I think we had some spillage because I think our engagement,
55:19
our engagement rate was only about 35 to 40%.
55:24
So you know, but when you're trying to pour it out and hand
55:27
it to others stuff for on the. Move.
55:29
And yeah, and I'm not sure, but I'm sure we got the dosage
55:32
exactly right. It's hard to gauge somebody's
55:34
weight as they're coming at. You so we, we talked a, you
55:38
know, kind of gave a shout out to several of your, you know,
55:41
biz dev people, sales, marketing, how many folks are on
55:45
the manufacturing floor? We've got about we've got 23
55:50
total employees, 12 of them are on the on the production line
55:57
itself and then they're supported by an engineering team
56:00
of Paul and Austin. Then we have a distribution team
56:03
that's Brandon heads up where you know Gary works, runs our
56:09
warehouse and he's been here as almost as long as I have.
56:12
I'm actually not the most seasoned employee here.
56:15
Peace on Pre dated me a little by a few months and she works on
56:20
our production floor. So we're really, really proud of
56:22
our culture too. We haven't had any voluntary
56:24
turnover in I'd say about 2 1/2 years.
56:30
Wow. Yeah.
56:31
That was going to be kind of one of the questions I always love
56:33
to, you know, ask people that are on the show is because most
56:37
of the folks I talk to, it's a tight labor market.
56:39
It's hard to find good people. It's hard to hold on to good
56:42
people. Sounds like you guys are doing a
56:44
pretty good job holding on to them.
56:46
When the time does come to hire folks, are you finding it
56:50
challenging to to find them and, you know, bring them in in the
56:52
first place? Yes and no.
56:56
I I think it requires it requires patience and and
56:59
finding the right fit and hiring for the right reason.
57:03
We've always hired for culture and ceiling more than experience
57:09
historically when it comes to people that are that are, you
57:13
know, thought based producers, We are very, very much an
57:19
empowering type of organization. We're we're aware of the fact
57:23
that, you know, people's job satisfaction index isn't, you
57:28
know, while Maslowian some to some degree, like it's not
57:31
driven by money. Usually it's, it's driven by
57:35
feeling like you're part of the process, feeling that the, the
57:39
organization is working for everyone in it, not just one or
57:42
two individuals at the top. So we, we try to take our
57:46
culture very seriously here. We're, we're a very forgiving
57:50
culture that's also very demanding.
57:52
So we will, we're very accommodating to people's needs.
57:57
You know, you'll, I don't think you'll ever hear us not let
57:59
somebody go take care of an I'll family member or go to their
58:04
kids school or something like that.
58:06
But but that sort of loyalty and dedication needs to flow both
58:12
ways. And we, we're very protective of
58:16
that culture, frankly. And because it's easy to spoil,
58:19
right? It's, it's, it's it easy for
58:21
somebody to take advantage of that and then create some
58:27
fracturing amongst peers if somebody feels like there's
58:30
someone not pulling their own weight or not contributing.
58:33
So we spend a lot of time sort of re educating people, not re
58:39
educating, I guess, reminding people of why we do certain
58:42
things and why it's important and that we need to all operate
58:46
with the level of transparency, honesty and, and, and frankly
58:51
dedication and not treat people like commodities.
58:55
And it's, it's not that hard. You just have to be holistically
59:01
minds, you know, mindset. Yeah.
59:08
But we also go through a lot of applications.
59:11
We went through over 500 applicants for each of our last
59:16
two hires. And, and I think that most
59:20
people would not have hired, not most, a lot of organizations
59:24
would not have hired the people we hired because we look for a
59:30
certain mindset. We look for a, a certain sort of
59:34
cultural value system and things like that.
59:38
As long as they have enough experience to do the job and not
59:44
sort of miss steps so you can like you can plug and play them
59:47
in as much as you need. That's fine for us from an
59:50
experience level. But the the rest were really
59:53
looking for potential upside ceiling culture, things of that
59:57
nature. Phillip, I'm curious to hear
1:00:00
about a serious challenge that you've overcome, either business
1:00:04
or personal, and what some lessons were that you learned
1:00:06
going through that. What building a business with no
1:00:10
budget's not enough for you, Anthony?
1:00:12
Let's go deep on that one. Phil or or lots.
1:00:15
Of us and lots of the listeners have been there.
1:00:17
Before or having to create a whole new category that nobody
1:00:21
believes in or naming yourself after something that you know is
1:00:25
going to get complicated with anything else.
1:00:27
We've had no challenges here at all, Anthony.
1:00:29
It's been smooth sailing. No, no, no, it's, it's, I mean,
1:00:34
I remember one time I, I walked into the, this is probably 7 or
1:00:38
8 years ago, I walked into one of the former partners office.
1:00:42
So he's retired since Steve Collette and he, he was here
1:00:45
since the beginning. He owned a pickle company.
1:00:47
And you know, I walked into his office and said, you know, it's
1:00:52
really fascinating. Every single week we resolve a
1:00:55
problem that if not resolved properly would put this company
1:01:00
under. So you know, if you have, you
1:01:06
know, a small company can't, can't survive a recall a lawsuit
1:01:13
or anything, right? Like you, you're sort of
1:01:18
operating on knife's edge all the time, especially if you've
1:01:23
put capital investment into manufacturing facility.
1:01:26
So I, I think it requires and, and I'm, I'm fortunate enough
1:01:33
that I get to talk about this at my alma mater once in a while.
1:01:36
It requires this true entrepreneurial mindset of I, I
1:01:41
know I'm going to work harder for less.
1:01:44
And my motivation is to see if it can be done and to see if I
1:01:50
can really make a difference. And I think really believing
1:01:54
that and really living that lifestyle and making all the
1:01:58
sacrifices that are required to get that going is, is not just
1:02:04
one hindrance, it's a, it's a lifestyle choice, right?
1:02:08
I mean, I remember looking at this company and going, geez,
1:02:13
these guys sold less than I made last year.
1:02:15
So obviously I can't make what I was making.
1:02:18
So am I willing to live off of my savings for a few years in
1:02:23
order to see if this thing works?
1:02:25
Am I willing to trust my partners enough that I'm going
1:02:28
to be part of this equation when it pays off?
1:02:32
So there's so many constant risks and challenges and bets
1:02:38
and having to back yourself and, and, and just grind it out that
1:02:43
I think it's a holistic thing, right?
1:02:45
I mean, we can all pick little events, isolated events, but,
1:02:51
but realistically, when you want to start an, A business like
1:02:54
this, you have to realize you're going to come up against stuff
1:02:57
that your peers are coming up against daily and you have to
1:03:02
figure out what it is. You just have to be honest with
1:03:05
who you are and what you're producing, find a true point of
1:03:09
differentiation in the marketplace and have the great
1:03:12
determination, pace, patience and ability to fail.
1:03:19
And, and I think that's it. But if you know, I could
1:03:22
probably come up with a few specifics if you'd like.
1:03:25
Maybe do you have any advice for any entrepreneurs who have an
1:03:30
idea for an innovative product, how to think about it and how to
1:03:35
bring it to market? Yeah.
1:03:38
And I would, I would point them to a statistic in the restaurant
1:03:42
industry that 80% of restaurants fail in the first five years.
1:03:47
And often times a good chef does not a good restauranteur make.
1:03:51
So most of us that are adept at producing products lack the
1:03:57
business side of the equation. I've been lucky because I've
1:04:01
been trade on the business side. So that's balanced my sort of
1:04:06
creative skill set, I suppose. But know what your know your
1:04:14
strengths, and more importantly, know your weaknesses.
1:04:16
And be honest with yourself about your weaknesses and find
1:04:20
somebody else to help you overcome those.
1:04:23
Don't try to do it all yourself because you don't know what you
1:04:27
don't know. You just have to try to identify
1:04:29
it rather than figuring it out. Phillip, I just have one more
1:04:35
question for you. But before I ask it, I want to
1:04:37
do 2 things. Everyone listening today, I know
1:04:40
that you love today's content. Please hit the like Share
1:04:42
subscribe button on your favorite podcast app.
1:04:45
Phillip, I also want to let people know the best way to get
1:04:47
in touch with you. What would that be?
1:04:49
There's a contact us a link on picklepower.com.
1:04:54
You can call us at 972-755-0289. You can e-mail me at
1:05:00
info@picklepower.com. Like as our, our phone number
1:05:05
and our websites on every single bottle.
1:05:07
So there's about 20 million of those floating around every
1:05:10
single year. So again, we, we don't hide.
1:05:13
We love feedback. I mean, post reviews on Amazon,
1:05:16
post reviews on our site. If you have a thought, a a
1:05:21
response, anything that, we'd love to hear it.
1:05:26
Very open to that communication. So last question for you,
1:05:29
Philip. I'm kind of curious what you see
1:05:31
the big changes coming to your space in the next couple of
1:05:34
years. How do you see things unfolding?
1:05:37
I I think the, the way that consumers acquire products is
1:05:41
going to change significantly. We, which means that for us who
1:05:46
produce products, we're going to see a less breadth and more
1:05:51
depth in offerings. We're already seeing smaller
1:05:54
format retail like ALDI and Trader Joe's having tremendous
1:05:58
amount of success and the large format grocers struggling to
1:06:03
keep up, right. They're really having to
1:06:05
differentiate themselves into an experience like Wegmans has done
1:06:10
successfully, Kroger is doing with some success in in order to
1:06:16
to maintain that breath large scale store atmosphere.
1:06:20
So I think people who are producing products can no longer
1:06:24
rely on single points of differentiation.
1:06:27
They're going to have to rely on being truly innovative, truly
1:06:31
different and truly non commoditized.
1:06:35
Otherwise, the the need to capture market share in
1:06:43
commoditized products will force companies to make their margins
1:06:49
so slim that they'll eventually just merge into because large
1:06:54
companies have no choice but to grow through mergers and
1:06:57
acquisitions, you'll have less offerings forcing the depth.
1:07:01
So figuring out a way to survive and truly differentiate in
1:07:07
what's becoming an increased, increasingly commoditized base
1:07:12
will be critical for any brand. Philip, I want to be the first
1:07:16
one to thank you for sharing both your time and your story
1:07:18
with us today. I really appreciate it.
1:07:21
Thanks so much for having me, I really enjoyed it and gave me
1:07:23
some time to reflect too all. Right, folks, that's a wrap on
1:07:26
another episode of the Inspired Stories podcast.
1:07:29
Thanks for learning with us today.