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What Do House Cats Have to Do With Deep-Sea Mining? A Surprising Ocean Connection · How To Protect The Ocean

• 1:00:00
  Do you want to know how domesticated cats
• 1:00:02
  are related to deep sea mining?
• 1:00:04
  Then you're going to want
• 1:00:05
  to tune in to this episode.
• 1:00:06
  This is the how to
• 1:00:07
  protect the ocean podcast.
• 1:00:09
  If you want more ocean
• 1:00:10
  news updates every weekday,
• 1:00:13
  this is your time to hit that follow
• 1:00:15
  button. Hello everybody.
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  Welcome back to the how to
• 1:00:18
  protect the ocean podcast.
• 1:00:19
  I'm your host Andrew Lewin
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  and we today are talking to Dr.
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  Andrew Thaler, who is a deep sea
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  ecologist and he's writing a book.
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  And this good friend of mine has come to
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  me and said, Andrew,
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  I need to tell you some deep sea stories,
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  not just about the deep sea mining,
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  but about the deep sea in general.
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  These are stories that are
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  going to knock your socks off.
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  He's writing a book and part of this is
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  telling these wonderful stories.
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  It's going to be part of the book.
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  So you're getting kind of a
• 1:00:46
  sneak peek by being part of this,
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  how to protect the ocean podcast. Uh, and
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  it's, it's phenomenal. Today,
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  we're going to be talking about how deep
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  sea mining has led to the
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  domestication of cats and
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  it's, you're going to want to,
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  I don't want to give anything else away
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  because I want you to hear it from
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  Andrew. Cause he's a fantastic
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  storyteller. And he said, Hey,
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  let's do these stories on, uh, on the
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  podcast. What do you think?
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  And I'm like, let's do it.
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  Like, why not? Is my podcast? Why?
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  Let's let's try and
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  switch it up a little bit,
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  make it a little bit more entertaining.
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  I know I throw a lot of news at you every
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  weekday from Monday to Thursday is
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  like a solo episode. We've
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  been talking about enforcement.
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  And now we're going to talk about deep
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  sea mining. Just, uh, you know,
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  it's the interview Friday, so we're going
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  to be talking about that. Uh,
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  and I just think, uh, it's a lot of fun.
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  So I'm going to let you hear it straight
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  from Andrew's mouth.
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  Here is Andrew, Dr. Andrew Taylor,
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  talking about the domestication of cats
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  and how deep sea mining led to that
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  domestication. Enjoy the interview. And I
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  will talk to you after. Hey, Andrew,
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  welcome back to the how to
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  protect the ocean podcast.
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  Are you ready to talk about deep sea
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  stories? Just in general,
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  this is going to be a new series that
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  we're going to be doing.
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  Are you ready to start the series?
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  I am ready. The question for you is are
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  you ready? I don't know.
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  I take a step back and enjoy the power of
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  a different Andrew hosting for a
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  moment.
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  This is going to be, this is
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  going to be a lot of fun. We,
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  we've been discussing this for, you know,
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  about a month now. Um,
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  and we'll get, well,
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  I'll let you explain what you want to do
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  on this because this is going to be
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  your show and I'm just going to be like
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  an audience member and kind of
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  interjecting every once in a while and
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  asking questions and stuff.
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  But this is going to be a lot of fun.
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  We're going to switch it up a little bit.
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  Uh, Andrew's got some
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  stories that he wants to tell.
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  It's part of a larger
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  project that he's working on. Uh,
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  and so we're going to just
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  kind of give it to you, buddy.
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  I want you to just go ahead and before,
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  before we start though,
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  just for those of the, for those of the
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  audience members who haven't heard of
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  you before, haven't listened to you
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  before here on this podcast,
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  why don't you just let us know who you
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  are and what you do.
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  And of course what
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  this project is all about.
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  All right. Well, I am Dr.
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  Andrew Thaler, deep sea ecologist,
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  conservation technologist, ocean
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  educator, and author,
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  and welcome dear listeners to tales from
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  the limitless abyss.
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  So, uh, the backstory
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  behind this little, uh,
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  podcasting experiment we're doing is I
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  have a book coming out in like a year
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  and a half because I have
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  to write it, but I have,
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  I have a contract for a book tentatively
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  titled limitless abyss,
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  the use and misuse of the deep sea.
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  And one of the things we want to do is as
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  I'm researching this book and as I'm
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  putting together chapters
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  and drafting everything,
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  there's just hundreds and hundreds and
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  hundreds of these
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  delightful little stories
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  coming out about all the weird ways that
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  humans have used and abused the deep sea
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  over, uh, not just years, not just
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  decades, not just centuries,
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  but millennia. And so I, you know,
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  I want to take a little bit of time
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  throughout the process is a little bit of
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  accountability for me because I got to
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  keep writing the book if,
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  if I'm going to come
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  up with new stories. Uh,
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  so it helps keep me on track and it helps
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  keep everyone a little entertained.
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  And you know, maybe when
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  the book finally comes out,
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  if you've been listening for a while,
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  you'll pick it up. Absolutely.
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  Uh, but, uh,
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  I want to start today
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  with a very simple question.
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  All right. Uh, Andrew
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  Lewin, why do we have cats?
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  Well, as a, as someone who doesn't own a
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  cat, um, I'm going to say, I don't know.
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  I really don't know how cats came to be.
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  I assume they're domesticated from like
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  the wild over years and years and years
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  of crazy people trying to domesticate
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  tigers and lions and so forth. Is that,
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  is that the right answer?
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  So I'm going to take us back.
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  I'm going to take us back about 6,000
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  years to the new kingdom of Egypt,
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  uh, to Pharaoh, uh, Ramses and Pharaoh,
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  Tuttmus the third and, uh,
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  the very first deep sea mines back then.
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  So this is a, one of the really cool
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  things that has come up and one of the,
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  uh, interesting pieces of primary
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  research that has come out of this book
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  is I started asking this question.
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  You know, I talk a lot when I tell people
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  about deep sea mining and I tell people
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  about hydrothermal vents.
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  One of the things I
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  say is that, you know,
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  when you think about metal that comes in
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  veins, so things like
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  copper and gold and silver,
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  in a lot of cases,
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  those veins are actually the stock works
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  of ancient hydrothermal vents.
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  So the hydrothermal vent chimney that
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  forms as this vent grows in the sea floor
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  deposits heavy metals along the walls.
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  And then eventually
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  over millions of years,
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  those vents shut down and they drift off
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  access and, you know,
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  continents up heave and the earth moves
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  and eventually they end up on land.
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  Uh, and they become
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  things like gold mines.
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  So, uh, those, those
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  structures are called ophiolites.
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  Ophiolites are chunks of oceanic plate
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  that have been uplifted onto land.
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  And are now sitting on land
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  as remnants of ancient seabed.
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  And so I thought, you know, wouldn't it
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  be interesting to like, look at some of
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  the old copper mines that were important
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  during the Bronze Age and, you know,
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  see how many of those really
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  were ancient hydrothermal vents.
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  So, you know, I started in the Egyptian
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  New King kingdom at the, at
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  the peak of the Bronze Age.
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  And I started with a Pharaoh Thutmose III
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  because one of the things that's really
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  fascinating about that most of the third
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  is that he was a conqueror.
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  He, he spread the Egyptian
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  kingdom across the Levant.
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  And he is the source of the first battles
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  in recorded history.
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  So the first actual he carried, he
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  brought with him a scribe
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  who wrote everything down.
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  So, you know, we don't know exactly what
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  happened, but we know what
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  he wanted us to know happened.
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  And so we have records of, uh, you know,
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  some of these ancient battles, including,
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  um, uh, the battle of Megadow, which is
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  the first battle in recorded history.
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  Um, and we know how many people were
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  killed and we knew what they carried and
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  how many horses they had and how many
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  chariots and all these great things and
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  how many bronze weapons they had.
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  So I was interested of like tracking back
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  from there and being
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  like these bronze weapons.
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  This was a technological innovation to
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  have bronze over, over
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  copper or over stone.
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  Uh, where did that bronze come from?
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  And could we track it
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  back to a hydrothermal vent?
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  And what I found is that, uh, the
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  Egyptian New Kingdom, their early copper
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  mines were on, uh, the Sinai peninsula.
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  They were 500 million
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  year old Ophieolites.
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  They were hydrothermal vents.
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  Um, the major source of copper for the
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  new kingdom was on the island of Cyprus.
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  Uh, the island of Cyprus
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  itself is in Ophieolite.
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  Um, so the mountains of Cyprus are all
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  chunks of ancient seabed.
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  This is a hundred million year old chunk
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  of the neotetha sea that was lifted up
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  onto land and slowly over generations,
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  the people who
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  eventually settled on Cyprus
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  were discovered that there were these
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  rich, rich copper veins inside, um, the
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  mountains of, of Cyprus.
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  And in addition to these copper veins,
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  they also found
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  fossils, very strange fossils.
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  And when archeologists started excavating
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  these old, uh, mines in Cyprus and
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  looking at the fossils, you know, this is
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  early 19th century, early 20th century,
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  you know, the Egyptologists, the, the
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  archeologists that were going through
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  ancient Greece, all that fun stuff.
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  When the Victorians were out stealing
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  everything they could from, uh, from the
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  Levant and from Egypt.
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  Um, they find these fossils and no one
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  knew what these fossils were.
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  They were just these
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  strange, strange fossils.
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  Uh, so they were kind of this weird
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  thing, just something out there, the
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  strange fossil until, and no one knew, no
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  one really could figure it out.
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  Maybe it was a worm. It was some kind of
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  an animal. No one's really sure. Some of
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  them looked like snails.
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  And then in 1977, Bob Ballard dives on
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  the Pacific rise in, you know, the
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  Pacific ocean and finds
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  the first hydrothermal vents.
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  And on these first hydrothermal vents is
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  riftia pachiptila, the
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  giant deep sea tube worm.
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  You know, these massive tube worms, the
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  fastest growing invertebrate on the
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  world. They can grow several meters long.
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  Um, they have these bright red plumes
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  that come out of, of these tubes that
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  they build that then extract the chemical
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  energy from the hydrothermal vent and
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  turn into food for the animal.
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  And those two worms on the East Pacific
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  rise looked almost
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  identical to the fossils in Cyprus.
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  And so they're like, oh, this is proof
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  positive. This is these old copper mines.
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  These old copper mines
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  are hydrothermal vents.
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  And so I kept tracking different minds
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  across Egypt and the Near East and the
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  Middle East. And we found ophiolites in
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  Turkey and ophiolites in Oman and
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  ophiolites kind of all
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  across these regions.
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  And they're all ancient hydrothermal
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  vents. Most of them are from the
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  neotethis. So 100 million year old vents.
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  Some of them are 500 million years old.
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  Some of them are incredibly
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  ancient hydrothermal vents.
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  But all of these copper mines, all these
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  copper mines that basically created the
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  Bronze Age are the remnants
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  of ancient hydrothermal vents.
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  So they are effectively the least
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  efficient way to mine the deep sea. You
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  wait till it comes to you.
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  You wait until it comes to you. And
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  honestly, that is probably the best way
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  to do it to minimize your environmental
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  impact on the sea. Yeah, exactly. You
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  wait till the sea floor comes above the
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  surface. Yeah, exactly. Only 500 million
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  years, but it'll
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  eventually get there, right?
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  Yeah, so Cyprus is a funny. Yeah, Cyprus
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  has been incredibly important throughout
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  human history. It's a major source of
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  copper. You know, it was a driver of the
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  Bronze Age. It was a major cultural
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  landmark. Cyprus has a few very funny
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  animals associated with him. One of this
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  is they had a pygmy elephant.
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  So on the island of Cyprus, this is long
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  before humans. Right, right, right.
• 1:11:38
  Several thousand years before human
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  settlement, they had these pygmy
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  elephants as an elephant, but it's a
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  little tiny elephant. And how familiar
• 1:11:46
  are you with an elephant skull?
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  I mean, I can kind of picture it, but I
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  don't have one in my backyard or
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  anything. Yeah. So one of the weird
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  things about elephant skulls is that if
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  you look at how the skull is shaped and
• 1:11:57
  where the eye sockets are, the eye
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  sockets are kind of fused together.
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  Okay. So they sort of look like one big
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  eye socket in the middle of the skull,
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  like a little bit of a figure eight, but
• 1:12:07
  like one big eye socket. So these pygmy
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  elephant skulls, Greek explorers are, you
• 1:12:15
  know, sailing across the Greek islands.
• 1:12:17
  They're landing in Cyprus. They're, you
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  know, going into caves in Cyprus and
• 1:12:21
  they're finding these elephant skulls
• 1:12:23
  that are not big. They're not the size of
• 1:12:25
  a full grown elephant, but they're like
• 1:12:27
  three, four times the
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  size of a human head.
• 1:12:30
  And they've got one big eye socket right
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  in the middle. And so, you know, I don't
• 1:12:36
  know if you've read the Odyssey. I have.
• 1:12:38
  I've read all three translations of the
• 1:12:40
  Odyssey because I love the Odyssey.
• 1:12:43
  The legend of the Cyclops in ancient
• 1:12:45
  Greece. One of the predominant theories
• 1:12:48
  about where that story comes from is
• 1:12:51
  these pygmy elephant skulls that look
• 1:12:53
  like a one eyed giant. That's crazy.
• 1:12:57
  So it didn't actually have one eye. It
• 1:13:00
  was just the way the bones refused
• 1:13:02
  together. Yeah, it's just the way that
• 1:13:04
  elephant skulls form and where the eyes
• 1:13:06
  are in the eye socket itself kind of
• 1:13:08
  looks like it's one big
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  thing recessed in. Okay.
• 1:13:10
  Yeah. So Cyprus has lots of funny things
• 1:13:14
  going for it in terms of animal life. But
• 1:13:16
  one of the most interesting things that
• 1:13:17
  came out of my research is the earliest
• 1:13:20
  record of domesticated cats is from the
• 1:13:25
  island of Cyprus and they were
• 1:13:26
  domesticated to keep rats
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  out of their copper mines.
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  So our original pet cats, the very first
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  pet cats are there because we were mining
• 1:13:40
  a hundred million year old hydrothermal
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  vent full of fossil tube worms that we
• 1:13:45
  couldn't identify yet. And we just needed
• 1:13:49
  some help keeping the pests out.
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  And so and so where did what is the or
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  like where's the origin of cats like how
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  like what were they domesticated from
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  where they are smaller felines small wild
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  cats. Yeah, small cats. Interesting.
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  That's so cool. So can you so can you say
• 1:14:06
  like any mining area that's on an island
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  or that's like fairly new in terms of the
• 1:14:13
  last hundred to 500 million years was
• 1:14:16
  essentially created in the deep sea.
• 1:14:18
  So all of these heavy metal mines are
• 1:14:23
  produced by hydrothermalism. Okay. In the
• 1:14:28
  deep ocean. They're not all from
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  hydrothermal vents. But generally
• 1:14:33
  speaking, with the exception of very
• 1:14:37
  modern minds where we have the industrial
• 1:14:40
  equipment to access very deep reservoirs,
• 1:14:44
  very deep reserves,
• 1:14:46
  very deep deposits of ore.
• 1:14:48
  With big industrial machinery and strip
• 1:14:51
  mining and all that good stuff where you
• 1:14:53
  have to get really down deep and you can
• 1:14:55
  find metal that was deposited from like
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  older magmatic processes that were
• 1:15:00
  producing metals with the with the
• 1:15:03
  exception of our most modern minds.
• 1:15:05
  Almost all gold mines, almost all copper
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  mines, anything that could be accessed
• 1:15:11
  with 20th century technology or or
• 1:15:14
  earlier are going to be ancient
• 1:15:17
  hydrothermal vents, including and one of
• 1:15:21
  my particularly exciting discoveries and
• 1:15:23
  it's not really a discovery. We've known
• 1:15:24
  about it for a long time.
• 1:15:25
  But the really fun bit of the story is
• 1:15:28
  that the city of Baltimore sits on top of
• 1:15:32
  a massive serpent night hosted
• 1:15:34
  hydrothermal vent. No. So Baltimore was
• 1:15:37
  very famous for chromium mines back in
• 1:15:39
  the day. And part of the reason that my
• 1:15:41
  family ended up in Baltimore 200 years
• 1:15:44
  ago is for the mining.
• 1:15:46
  Where were they before?
• 1:15:46
  They were in pressure. Okay. And they
• 1:15:52
  were in Russia. And, you know, we fled
• 1:15:55
  the pogroms. Right. Basically how we
• 1:15:56
  ended up in America. But we settled in
• 1:16:00
  Baltimore. And, you know, part of the
• 1:16:02
  reason we settled in Baltimore, which is
• 1:16:03
  the industry around Baltimore.
• 1:16:04
  And the industry came from chromium
• 1:16:07
  mining in a large part. And that chromium
• 1:16:10
  mining is the result of a
• 1:16:11
  serpentinization, which is a process that
• 1:16:14
  creates hydrothermal vents. So, you know,
• 1:16:16
  a lot of the Baltimore ultramafic
• 1:16:18
  complex, which is the rocks we sit on in
• 1:16:21
  Baltimore is from hydrothermal venting.
• 1:16:24
  That's so cool. That is so neat. Now,
• 1:16:28
  some of the mines that are internal, like
• 1:16:31
  inland, you know, I know Baltimore is a
• 1:16:34
  bit in, but it's got the coastal kind of
• 1:16:36
  structure to it. Would you say are from
• 1:16:39
  deep sea mines as well? Like anything in
• 1:16:41
  like any mine at all is, is a rise from
• 1:16:44
  the deep sea or is that like a different
• 1:16:46
  geographic or geophysical process?
• 1:16:49
  So not every, every mine, but for the
• 1:16:52
  most part, all the heavy metal, all the
• 1:16:53
  heavy metal mines. Yeah. So we are, I
• 1:16:56
  mean, that is how you get heavy metals is
• 1:16:59
  you dissolve it in seawater and then you
• 1:17:01
  put it under enormous pressure. And then
• 1:17:03
  you boil that sea water to the point
• 1:17:05
  where it goes through a phase transition.
• 1:17:07
  And then all those metals fall out of
• 1:17:09
  solution and are
• 1:17:10
  deposited on the sea floor. Wow.
• 1:17:13
  That's incredible. So we have been mining
• 1:17:16
  the deep sea for a very
• 1:17:17
  long time. Yeah. Just not.
• 1:17:18
  We just, we were more efficient at it. We
• 1:17:22
  waited. We were more patient. Let's just
• 1:17:24
  say, we waited. Just waited till you
• 1:17:26
  were, you know, until like generations
• 1:17:28
  and generations after. Yeah. Well, it's
• 1:17:32
  like oil, right? That's just a very
• 1:17:33
  inefficient way to get sunlight. Yeah.
• 1:17:36
  Yeah, that's true. That's true. That's so
• 1:17:39
  cool. Yeah, that is so neat. So like, how
• 1:17:43
  do you find like a story like this, like
• 1:17:46
  knowing the history like this?
• 1:17:49
  How do you find that helps like for the
• 1:17:53
  listeners out there to bring it to
• 1:17:55
  conservation and seeing all these
• 1:17:57
  petitions for an RFI is like, you know,
• 1:18:00
  request for information and things like
• 1:18:03
  that. How do you think this influences
• 1:18:05
  them or, or can help them in the fight
• 1:18:10
  against deep sea mining? Like just to not
• 1:18:12
  let it happen if they
• 1:18:13
  don't want to let it happen.
• 1:18:15
  So one of the things I'm looking at is
• 1:18:17
  all of our cultural connections to the
• 1:18:19
  deep sea. So we don't think about the
• 1:18:21
  deep sea as something that we're
• 1:18:23
  culturally connected to, you know,
• 1:18:24
  outside of a few people who are, you
• 1:18:26
  know, super jazzed about the deep ocean.
• 1:18:29
  And we don't think about all the ways
• 1:18:31
  that we use the deep sea that are maybe
• 1:18:33
  out of sight, out of mind, but are
• 1:18:35
  actually very important to how society
• 1:18:37
  functions. So, you know, like
• 1:18:40
  telecommunications tables, tables, telecommunication tables.
• 1:18:44
  I don't think we've used tables 99% of
• 1:18:49
  our data travels through the deep sea
• 1:18:51
  when whenever we're connecting across
• 1:18:54
  continents and it has for 200 years.
• 1:18:56
  Yeah. You know, we we use the deep sea as
• 1:19:00
  a place to dispose of tremendous amounts
• 1:19:02
  of waste. It's the use and misuse of the
• 1:19:05
  deep sea. So we're talking a lot about
• 1:19:06
  misuse as well. But you know, one of one
• 1:19:09
  of the ways we dispose of waste in the
• 1:19:10
  deep sea is we crash
• 1:19:12
  spaceships into a water.
• 1:19:14
  Point in the middle of the Pacific,
• 1:19:15
  that's far from land. So that doesn't
• 1:19:17
  hurt anyone out when you, you know, drop
• 1:19:19
  a spacecraft on the plane, or doesn't
• 1:19:20
  blow up as it gets down to the ground.
• 1:19:22
  Exactly. So there's all these different
• 1:19:25
  ways that we're using the deep ocean that
• 1:19:28
  we don't necessarily think about, but are
• 1:19:30
  that absolutely important to human
• 1:19:32
  civilization and human survival.
• 1:19:34
  So one of the reasons I wanted to start
• 1:19:35
  the book with this kind of tracking of
• 1:19:38
  all these ancient hydrothermal events is
• 1:19:39
  to argue, you know, hydrothermal events
• 1:19:42
  are responsible for the advent of the
• 1:19:44
  Bronze Age. They are, you know, they're
• 1:19:47
  not just this thing that we have
• 1:19:48
  discovered recently and are like, Oh,
• 1:19:51
  isn't that neat? Isn't that interesting?
• 1:19:52
  There's this weird thing on
• 1:19:53
  the bottom of the sea floor.
• 1:19:54
  They are central to our story as humans
• 1:19:57
  and to our story of technological
• 1:19:59
  development. We are people of the sea, we
• 1:20:02
  have come from the sea and the sea is,
• 1:20:05
  you know, from the sea, we have gained
• 1:20:07
  almost all of our civilization. Yeah.
• 1:20:11
  That's incredible. Never thought about it
• 1:20:13
  that way. If you think, you know, when
• 1:20:14
  you think about how much we depend on the
• 1:20:16
  ocean, we think of what it gives us right
• 1:20:17
  now, but not how it's formed sort of our
• 1:20:20
  society, you know, at this at this point.
• 1:20:23
  You know, the next time you pet a kitty,
• 1:20:26
  just think you owe this kid a little bit
• 1:20:30
  of protection in the deep ocean. The deep
• 1:20:32
  sea gave you a cat. You should you should
• 1:20:34
  respect the deep sea
• 1:20:35
  for that and that alone.
• 1:20:36
  So my title for this episode should be
• 1:20:39
  like cats? Question
• 1:20:40
  mark, protect the deep sea.
• 1:20:42
  I love it. Absolutely.
• 1:20:44
  But I mean, it also goes to show a little
• 1:20:47
  bit like in my train of thought and you
• 1:20:48
  can correct me if I'm wrong, you know, we
• 1:20:51
  start mining the deep
• 1:20:52
  sea now in the deep sea.
• 1:20:55
  What's going to happen 100 million years
• 1:20:57
  from now? If we're that if there's still
• 1:21:00
  humans on that long, what's going to
• 1:21:01
  happen to the Earth's crust at that
• 1:21:03
  point? Are we going to get these, you
• 1:21:05
  know, islands or coastlines that have all
• 1:21:08
  these heavy metals in or are we just
• 1:21:10
  going to go down before
• 1:21:12
  they have a chance to rise to.
• 1:21:14
  To get that like same with seamen. Oh,
• 1:21:16
  100 million years from now, it's going to
• 1:21:17
  be a going to be a whole new. Yeah, we're
• 1:21:20
  not going to be a part of it. No, no, for
• 1:21:21
  sure. But I mean, it's it's looking at
• 1:21:23
  the future of the planet.
• 1:21:24
  Like from a planet perspective, you know,
• 1:21:26
  should we even be thinking about that? I
• 1:21:27
  can see some people not caring. But I
• 1:21:30
  mean, if it's if it's helped us here,
• 1:21:31
  it's going to help something for the
• 1:21:33
  planet later on. You
• 1:21:34
  know, it's a natural process.
• 1:21:35
  So, yeah, 100 million years from now, we
• 1:21:40
  may have plastic
• 1:21:41
  deposits. Yeah, that's true.
• 1:21:42
  Probably not plastics not going to
• 1:21:44
  persist for 100 million years. It's going
• 1:21:46
  to get subducted into the crust of the
• 1:21:48
  Earth and turned back into hydrocarbons,
• 1:21:50
  then spewed back out. But you know, I
• 1:21:54
  would I would hesitate to guess that that
• 1:21:57
  the vast majority of humans footprint on
• 1:21:59
  the planet will be gone 100 years,
• 1:22:01
  million years. Yeah, that's true. That's true.
• 1:22:02
  We may leave some fossils behind and
• 1:22:06
  there may be a few remnants. Yeah.
• 1:22:08
  Species rarely persist that long. True.
• 1:22:11
  True. It's it's a that's a long time.
• 1:22:13
  We're looking at it like that's a very,
• 1:22:16
  very long time. But this is great. And
• 1:22:18
  that I like starting that made. Sorry, go
• 1:22:20
  ahead. That I think that's a great start.
• 1:22:21
  And that also leads us into our second
• 1:22:23
  story. So if we want to, I don't know,
• 1:22:26
  pause and then kick off the next episode.
• 1:22:28
  Yeah, we can do that. We can do we can
• 1:22:29
  do. No, no, we can do to a will what
• 1:22:31
  we'll do is we'll answer that.
• 1:22:32
  And it here for the first story and then
• 1:22:34
  tune in soon. I don't know if we'll do
• 1:22:37
  this every other week or for the world.
• 1:22:39
  We'll worry. I'll let you know to the
• 1:22:41
  audience. I'll let you know when we'll be
• 1:22:43
  airing these. Let's just say Andrew has a
• 1:22:46
  lot of these stories, which I find if the
• 1:22:48
  first ones anything any indication is
• 1:22:50
  going to be great. So we'll end it here.
• 1:22:52
  Thank you so much. Andrew really
• 1:22:53
  appreciate it. And then we'll we're going
• 1:22:55
  to pause it. We're going to record
• 1:22:56
  another one and then we'll we'll see you
• 1:22:58
  in a bit. All right.
• 1:23:00
  Absolutely. Thank you so much. And this
• 1:23:02
  is going to be a fun absolutely looking
• 1:23:04
  forward to it. Thank you, Andrew, for
• 1:23:06
  joining us on today's episode of the how
• 1:23:08
  to protect the ocean podcast. It's always
• 1:23:09
  great to have him on. He's a good friend
• 1:23:11
  of mine. We've known each other for over
• 1:23:12
  a decade. And every time he's on the
• 1:23:15
  podcast, every time I talk to him really,
• 1:23:17
  I'm impressed just with the knowledge
• 1:23:19
  that he has and the way he tells it.
• 1:23:20
  he tells it. He is such a fun
• 1:23:22
  storyteller. I love listening to
• 1:23:24
  everything he says about
• 1:23:26
  not only the deep sea but just science in
• 1:23:27
  general and the ocean in
• 1:23:29
  general. And it's great to have
• 1:23:30
  him on every time he's on. He's been on a
• 1:23:33
  lot and there's a reason
• 1:23:35
  for that because he can really
• 1:23:36
  tell stories very well and I love to hear
• 1:23:39
  it. And we get to chat before
• 1:23:40
  and after. A lot of the times
• 1:23:42
  it's one of those times where I'm on with
• 1:23:44
  a guest and it's one of
• 1:23:45
  those times we're like hey maybe
• 1:23:46
  we should record a podcast while we talk
• 1:23:47
  to each other. That tends to
• 1:23:50
  happen. So it's great to have
• 1:23:53
  him on. I hope you enjoyed listening to
• 1:23:55
  this. Let me know what you
• 1:23:56
  think about this episode,
• 1:23:57
  what you thought of the story. Hit me up
• 1:23:59
  at
• 1:23:59
  speakupforblue.feedback. That's speakupforblue.com
• 1:24:04
  forward slash feedback speakupforblue.com
• 1:24:07
  forward slash feedback. I'd
• 1:24:09
  love to hear your thoughts.
• 1:24:10
  You can leave a voicemail or you can
• 1:24:11
  write it down. I just want
• 1:24:13
  to get some I just want to get
• 1:24:14
  feedback and I want to interact with you.
• 1:24:16
  That's the whole point of
• 1:24:16
  this podcast. We start the
• 1:24:18
  conversation on the podcast and then you
• 1:24:20
  continue it through that feedback link.
• 1:24:22
  So speakupforblue.com
• 1:24:23
  forward slash feedback and of course
• 1:24:25
  don't forget if you want to
• 1:24:26
  hear this type of stories,
• 1:24:31
  anything about the ocean, hit that follow
• 1:24:33
  button so you get to hear next week's
• 1:24:36
  episode. We're going
• 1:24:36
  to start Monday and we go Monday,
• 1:24:39
  Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday.
• 1:24:41
  So I want to thank you so much
• 1:24:42
  for joining me on today's episode of the
• 1:24:44
  How to Protect the Ocean podcast. Have a
• 1:24:46
  great day. We'll talk to you on Monday
• 1:24:47
  and happy conservation.