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Vietnam, Marriage, and Vacations: Conversation · Beyond the Sermon

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  You're listening to Beyond the Sermon podcast, the First
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  Methodist Church in Collingswood, NJ.
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  On our podcast, the goal is not just to share the sermons we've
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  preached, but to go beyond the sermon and talk about what we're
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  learning and what God is doing in US and in our community.
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  Bing bin ban. I just wanted to welcome our
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  extremely large Vietnamese audience.
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  Oh. The past month, 17% of our
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  audience has been from Vietnam. Really.
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  I don't know why you're here, but I'm so glad you're with us.
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  Thanks for listening. Multiple regions?
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  Who the thunk? It's apparently not me.
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  I'm a little little flabbergasted.
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  Yeah, every. Once in a while I'll check in
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  who's, you know, looking and I was like 17% it's.
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  Like. What?
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  Yeah, so just. What's 17% of 8?
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  No, we've actually, we've had a huge uptick.
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  I don't know if Spotify is like promoting us more, but we've had
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  some of our best weeks and months the past couple months.
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  The algorithms Algorithm, yeah. I guess I don't know, but I'm so
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  excited to have brothers and sisters from all over the world.
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  Every once in a while, you know, we have people that like go on
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  vacation or we get like one random listener from our
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  country, but to have a group of people and so.
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  Yeah, I don't think most of our people are vacationing in
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  Vietnam. And not multiple like the oven
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  says. It's not just like the one, you
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  know, Major. City incredible.
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  Yeah, just encouraging that, you know, God's able to use
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  technology to connect the body in various ways and hopefully
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  it's fruitful or whatever God's doing and, and.
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  Apparently we are very close 10,000 Listen what?
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  Are we at now? 9864.
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  It shot up more than when I checked.
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  Wow, we might have to celebrate soon.
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  What can we do? I don't know.
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  Send in ideas of what we could do because I would love to have
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  like a celebration for our listeners, maybe even like an in
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  person, like if you know, you know.
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  Podcast live. Yeah, that's terrifying to me as
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  I know how much you edit out. That is terrifying.
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  Not going to do it live, but we could include.
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  Live in front of a live studio audience.
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  Live studio audience of three more people.
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  But yeah, even if it's just like, I don't know, a little
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  snack time, a little get together, a little power of how
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  we can. What's been fruitful from the
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  podcast? How can we, you know, continue
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  to engage God's word, our sermons, our community through
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  this format, I think could be something exciting.
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  Yeah, for a monumentous occasion.
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  Wow. But God is so good and we can't
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  afford it. But if you would like to fly out
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  from wherever you are in the world.
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  Yeah. You are more than welcome, Yeah,
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  to join us. This is this is a non monetized
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  podcast. And we intentionally do that so
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  that you don't get commercials of random stuff you don't need.
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  Yeah, showing up in between our ramblings.
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  But that means our budget is still $0.00 yes for this
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  podcast, so. That is very true and maybe,
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  maybe there will be a giveaway at the event or on the podcast
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  coming up. So many.
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  Opportunities. Yeah, so many.
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  Opportunities. I'm very excited.
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  And so Scott and the life of the church, you've been gone for a
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  little over a week now. Where have you been?
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  We were down to Tennessee where we met up with Meg's family for
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  a few days to celebrate her parents 50th wedding
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  anniversary, which takes place this year.
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  Wow. Yeah.
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  Was that the proposed reason for the vacation or were you
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  surprised? And they're like, we're going to
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  celebrate. No, that was that was the
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  driving force from the very beginning.
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  And at one point it kind of took on a life of its own.
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  And it was like, oh, we can celebrate the 50th anniversary
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  and Scott and Meg's 20th anniversary and Meg's sisters
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  turning 40 this year and Tim's graduating from high school.
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  And it can be all the things you.
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  Know it's 5 foot now. We're like, no, we just want
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  this to be about you guys, and we just want to celebrate you
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  and what God has done in your marriage and in your family.
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  And yeah, so we went down to Tennessee, stayed in a couple
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  cabins down there and they, we did a little vow renewal with
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  them while we were there. And then we took a couple days
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  on the way back to stop at Great Smoky Mountain National Park.
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  And and then cool God thing, we have people from our
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  congregation, Joe and Jody Davis, who last year we're
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  getting ready to move down to northeastern Tennessee.
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  And they were showing me on the map one day where where they
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  were going to be living and all that kind of stuff.
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  And I saw one of the town names. I was like, oh, I've got a
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  friend from the cohort that I've been a part of who's pastoring
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  in that area. You guys should check out his
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  church sometime. And they did.
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  And there was the first and last church they checked out down
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  there. And they've been connected down
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  there since then. They're, they had to move into
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  junior high school recently because of their building
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  situation. They're now part of the setup
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  team and they're involved. And so it's good to see Joe and
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  Jody, but it's also good to see my friend Matt and get a chance
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  to worship with him and be a part of his congregation for a
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  Sunday and. Awesome, isn't it nice to
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  participate? It is.
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  It is. It's it's good to not be the one
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  leading sometimes. Yeah, yeah.
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  I find it very holy to just be and then and then people reach
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  out to you. You don't have to like it's.
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  Yeah. It was nice, but at least once I
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  did find myself. Then I was like, this is kind of
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  weird. I don't know this song.
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  What do I do like, And you know, just to to be on that side of
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  it, because so often I know what's coming or I've been part
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  of planning what's coming. And so even if it's something
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  new that's been suggested, I'll listen to it in advance or learn
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  it or whatever. And so it'll be there and be
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  like, oh, this is what it feels like.
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  It's been a long time since I've been in a worship service like
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  that where I just didn't know a song.
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  I'm very grateful with the the Passion Conference experience
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  where there's all these songs. I was like, OK, now I have to
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  navigate what this means for me while I'm worshiping.
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  And yeah. Yeah.
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  And it's definitely happened at like conferences and things
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  where, like when we go down to new room, sometimes there's new
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  stuff that's like the one year the band that was leading, they
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  were getting ready to drop a new album and we sang a whole bunch
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  of their new songs, which I'd never heard before.
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  Were great. Yeah, absolutely.
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  Bristol House, Absolutely. But to be in a local church
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  context and not know his. Yeah.
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  An interesting moment for me. You, you let it slip.
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  Their 20th anniversary? Yeah, wedding anniversary.
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  When is? This June 3rd and.
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  What are we doing? Nothing.
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  Yeah. That that's still to be
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  determined because that same weekend Tim has his high school
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  graduation and so there will be family coming into town and all
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  kinds of different stuff. So we'll see.
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  We'll see. We'll do something at some
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  point, but it might not be till next year.
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  So listeners, you need to whenever you see Pastor Scott
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  nagging about, OK, did you lock down what you're doing for your
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  anniversary and not just letting it slide away?
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  Yeah, we might very intentionally celebrate our 20th
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  anniversary at our 21st anniversary.
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  So 20th anniversary here, the beginning of June, which is a
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  wild reality to think about. But when I think about having a
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  kid who's going off to college next fall, that helps it sink in
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  a little bit more. But there are so many times
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  where it's just like there's, there's no way one, we've been
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  married that long, but two, I'm that old.
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  Like I know I look it but. Oh, but I can share.
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  Oh, I loved it so much in my class this week about about
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  marriage. It was talking about how it took
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  two Bible facts that I knew and put them together in a way that
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  made more sense. They're in relationship to each
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  other. The one that we will not be
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  married in heaven. We won't like you go up and
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  God's like, oh, there's that beautiful couple that you know
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  and they stay married and we're married forever and always.
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  Sorry if this is the first time you're hearing that I.
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  Just disappointed a whole lot of people, but it's scripture,
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  that's what it says. Yell at Scripture have that
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  conversation with God and then talking about marriage, you
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  know, Ephesians marriage being a way to point us to the mystery
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  of Jesus Christ and relationship with the church.
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  And so if we're going to be that example for hopefully 2050,
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  however many years since we we have left that once you once
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  we're in heaven, we no longer need to point to that mystery
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  because it will be completed as Jesus is reunited with his
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  church fully. And so marriage is no longer.
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  Yeah. And so it's been completed and
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  we're in the completed form. And so that was really beautiful
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  to me. Like I knew that it was pointing
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  to the mystery of Christ in the church.
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  And I knew that we weren't married in heaven, but I didn't
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  understand that transition and as to why.
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  And so my professor was very elegant.
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  And yeah, contrary to what the American evangelical Church has
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  promoted, marriage is not actually the eternal ideal.
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  Till death do us part right. That's what we said, yeah.
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  Right, Yeah. I just thought if you guys were
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  talking anniversaries and all that stuff, yeah, Rebecca and I
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  are long, long way from 20 year anniversary, but still feels
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  like a long time and not a long time.
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  Also, it's so time is so weird. Are you guys at 6-7?
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  OK, Scott, we actually are. We we're celebrated our 6th.
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  I couldn't remember. I knew.
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  Somewhere in there, but. They were so, so funny because
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  at church I just like ran which out I was like, Kenzie was in
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  the pews and I was like, Hey, Kenzie, you want to read the
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  scripture today? She's like what I was like Psalm
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  6-7 and and after, you know, nudging in whatever from her mom
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  and she ended up reading the Scripture, which is great, but
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  she didn't realize that I was kidding about referring to it as
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  Psalm 6-7. And so when she got up there
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  reading Psalm 67. That's amazing.
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  They just hear some some of the people go.
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  I love that. So much so that was a beautiful
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  moment in the worship on Sunday. Did you read my traces of grace?
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  Thoughts. It was read aloud to me as we
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  were driving somewhere. So that's a no good.
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  So I don't feel bad when I don't read yours.
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  I was talking the difference between vacation and trips and
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  all that. So I was wondering, just being
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  on a on a family trip with all the dynamics of people at play
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  and expectations, do you have any advice as people are
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  preparing for their summers on the literal logistical, actual
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  trips, vacation side verse and potentially also as we reflect
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  on our time on earth, maybe make some connections in there since
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  you have some fresh recent experience.
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  Two things that come to my mind immediately are, one, take the
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  time to set good expectations, because if you don't set good
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  expectations, then everybody's going to be let down.
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  And it goes along with the second one, which is to be
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  intentional about how you spend your time.
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  Because similarly, if you aren't intentional, it'll end up just
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  slipping away and you'll spend your time deciding what to do or
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  talking about what to do, or arguing about what to do rather
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  than just actually going out and doing the things you all want to
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  do. Set good expectations, be
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  intentional. And those go hand in hand when
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  it comes to a trip, for sure. But I think it also applies to
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  our lives, right? Because if we just are going
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  through the motions and we're not really thinking about how
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  we're spending our time or what we're doing with our days, it's
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  easy to feel busy in the midst of our days.
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  But then look back over a week, a month, a year and be like,
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  what I really accomplished with my life?
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  What did I do with this year? How have I grown in this year?
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  How's God, How have I been available to God to use in this
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  year and, and those things? Slip away.
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  Nothing changes if nothing changes, right?
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  Yeah, exactly. And so if we're not intentional,
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  then we'll find our time slipping away and just the
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  busyness and of the mundane things of life of, you know,
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  going to work or going to school or getting up and doing the
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  gardening. Well, you whatever the things
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  happen to be for us, if we're not intentional, they just kind
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  of slip away. But then also, I think having
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  the, the conversations about expectations, especially with
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  those closest to you and those who you do life with most
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  intimately. So that way you can get on the
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  same page and you can have the same goals and be working toward
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  the same things and you're not getting frustrated by them
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  wanting different things when you've not actually talked about
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  what those desires are for sure. And so that was even a little
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  bit of, of our conversation as we were driving home on Sunday
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  afternoon of, you know, every time there's a vacation or
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  something like Holy Week, which for us as pastors is quite a
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  busy week, it disrupts the rhythms, right?
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  It disrupts the normal rhythms and routines of life.
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  Normally my Sabbath I take on Friday, but when you've got a
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  men's breakfast and a midday service, that doesn't actually
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  happen, you know? And so those kind of things just
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  get disrupted when you go on vacation.
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  Probably not going to keep up with your practice of fasting.
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  I'm not going to keep up with my practice of fasting while I'm on
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  vacation. That's a time for feasting,
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  right? Then we did and.
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  And it shows. Yeah.
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  You're telling me, so coming back, we're like, all right, so
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  we need to rebuild some rhythms. And, and we've known that for
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  our a little while there. Some things just haven't been
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  lining up the way we wanted them to.
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  And so just talking through like, all right, well, if we're
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  going to fast once a week as a practice, what day can we do
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  that together? Yeah.
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  And so we're going back and forth.
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  Well, I don't want to do Fridays because it's my day off.
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  And so that should be like a Sabbath.
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  That should be a day where you're not fasting.
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  It should be a feasting day. And then or like, well, some
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  days I, I meet with guys for breakfast on Wednesdays.
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  So that's not a great day. And you know, whatever we're.
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  So we're working through all those things found, you know,
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  the, the one day in the week where it, it could actually work
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  for us to do it together. And so like setting that up and
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  then talking through what it looks like for both of us to be
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  able to do Sabbath at different points.
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  Or, you know, can it overlap at some level?
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  Because Fridays, part of the reason Fridays are a good day
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  for me to do Sabbath is because during the school year, on
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  Friday mornings, Megan, the boys go to Co-op, our home school
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  Co-op. And so, yeah, I know on those
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  mornings until about 1:00 in the afternoon, I'm free to do
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  whatever I want without it being that I'm leaving the family to
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  go do something for myself. So just trying to talk through
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  those things and set good expectations.
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  Like these are things we both want to do.
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  We both want built into our weekly rhythm.
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  How do we make it happen? I think those are my 2:00.
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  But you've traveled a whole lot, and you wrote the the e-mail in
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  Traces of Grace, so surely you have some things in mind as
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  well. Not necessarily, but I would.
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  I would just say that what you've mentioned thus far is of
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  the utmost importance. I think just for good
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  relationship, when I used to do trips with my cousins, like Rd.
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  trips across the country, I knew we weren't going to talk for
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  months afterwards and we were going to have the time of our
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  lives during. And it wasn't even like, though
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  I'm mad I'm not talking to you. It was just a like, we need a
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  break from each other. And, and so like by the end of
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  just sleepless nights and chaos and constantly moving and all
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  that kind of stuff, there's usually a little respite period
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  afterwards. And then we look so fondly at
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  the trip and with with Rebecca's family every year when you're
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  bringing together 4 couples and nine kids, math feel like
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  there's more, but maybe there's less.
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  There's probably less than that. But even still, that's 17
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  people. In one house.
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  In one house, yeah. Just everybody comes to it with
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  different expectations. And so after you'd like, there's
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  been good years, not so great years.
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  And last year, Rebecca and I were like, OK, we can't change
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  other people, right? But we can try and have
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  realistic expectations of what they're going to do, what
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  they're going to want to do, what we want to get out of this
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  time, all of that kind of stuff. So how do we prepare ourselves
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  for those situations and anticipate that?
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  And how can we like try to get some actual, I don't want to say
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  enjoyment because there's beautiful moments with the whole
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  family, but like some peaceful where you're not just
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  controlling the chaos of kids and various fun activities for
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  them, but like as long as no one's killing each other.
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  Oh, this is nice that no one's killing each other.
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  So that was very helpful. Last year.
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  I would say it was one of the most successful family vacations
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  ever. And God, it is so, so, so good.
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  But even even this year, I foolishly, but it's turning out
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  great, opened up a random vacation idea that was just
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  going to be Rebecca and I to the family and everyone jumped on
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  like, Oh my gosh, I can't wait. You know, we're we're going here
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  or whatever. And I was like, I know that half
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  of you aren't really going to go, but you're going to talk
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  like you're going to go, which is really going to annoy me
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  because I'm trying to like set plans and organize things.
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  And So what I did is I I controlled it fairly quickly and
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  was just setting the expectations for the entire
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  trip. I was like, look, here's the
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  entire general schedule of the trip, what we're going to be
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  seeing, what we're going to be hitting what?
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  We're often we're going to be moving.
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  All of that kind of stuff. These are the dates we're going.
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  This is the estimated cost of everything all the way down to
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  food for the entire trip. So now you know all the
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  information you need to say a yes or no, except for can I get
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  my kids watched and covered for that time?
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  So then that way it's not a oh, well, I want to go and do this
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  or I think we should because we also have just different
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  traveling styles, especially when it's a trip and not a
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  vacation. It's the some people or, or
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  maybe they thought it was a vacation.
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  You're going, you're going to sit at one resort for five days
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  and sit on the beach and I'm. Doing like 2-3 hours on the road
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  every day, jumping from place to place.
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  Yeah. And I think it's something that
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  even as simple as just like beach days with the family here
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  in Jersey is it's Aaron go. Oh, I'd love to go to the beach.
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  And you get like, three or five friends together, like, oh,
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  we're going to the beach for the day and you have one that's
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  gonna tan and read a book for six hours.
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  Contently, never moving from that spot except for when
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  they're starving. You have one that just wants to
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  roam the boardwalk, do the games, eat the food, all that
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  kind of stuff. Doesn't even want to go on the
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  beach that we have sneakers. And then you have the one that's
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  like, I want to be out in the water.
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  I want to be playing volleyball. I want to like, yeah, 3 drastic
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  different experiences. But when someone says let's go
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  to the shore, you're thinking that everyone else is thinking
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  the same thing that you're imagining for the day.
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  And so I think even then people can get a little upset and there
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  can be tension. And so just to protect sanity,
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  Christ, lovingness and relationship, I think going that
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  and like you said, the coming back rhythm, because every day
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  isn't vacation and isn't a trip. And so how do we make sure that
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  we don't completely disregard our spiritual disciplines and
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  rhythms that we've been working on and let it go to the wayside
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  completely because of these little blips and changes?
• 21:42
  Yeah. And then just one other thing
• 21:43
  that came to my mind and is me preaching to the choir a little
• 21:47
  bit. I Can't Sing.
• 21:50
  And by the choir, I mean myself. It doesn't have to be huge,
• 21:54
  right? Like maybe this summer it
• 21:56
  doesn't look like you can get a week away or two weeks away.
• 22:00
  And so you're like, oh, well, I'll just, I won't even do
• 22:02
  anything. But where could you get a day
• 22:06
  away or an overnight or maybe a long weekend or something?
• 22:10
  And and the same is true in our spiritual life.
• 22:13
  Don't discount what seems like small things, Sabbath, Sabbath
• 22:18
  for sure. But but even just the the
• 22:20
  cumulative nature of the small choices we make end up being
• 22:26
  huge things over time. And so, you know, might not be
• 22:30
  that over the course of the summer, you can, you can't get a
• 22:33
  whole consecutive week away, but maybe you can get seven days
• 22:37
  over the course of the summer where you go and choose to do
• 22:41
  something either alone or with people or whatever, where it
• 22:46
  really is restorative to you and not just relief.
• 22:51
  Like we've talked about a little bit recently in a sermon and,
• 22:55
  and letting God meet you in those small things or, or even
• 22:59
  just, you know, I want to, I want to make time each day and
• 23:03
  get outside. And that might just be a walk at
• 23:08
  Newton Lake Park or Cooper River or around your block.
• 23:12
  But it's it's the small choices that add up.
• 23:17
  For sure. And So what since we're just
• 23:19
  leaving our Deny Yourself series?
• 23:22
  What series? I'm so glad that one's done.
• 23:26
  Not not that I'm saying we should be done denying
• 23:29
  ourselves, but that was a tough series to preach there.
• 23:33
  There's a lot in there that I had to wrestle with God about
• 23:38
  and how to say it and as costly as costly.
• 23:47
  But where are we going next? Is that where what you were
• 23:49
  headed into? Could be.
• 23:51
  Could be starting this Sunday, we're going to be starting a
• 23:55
  series that I'm calling Empowered and we're going to be
• 24:01
  starting to talk about more about the Holy Spirit leading up
• 24:06
  to and through Pentecost, which is I think Pentecost Sunday is
• 24:10
  like May 24th or something like that.
• 24:13
  And so talking about the Holy Spirit, the role of the Holy
• 24:16
  Spirit in our lives, what it looks like to live a life
• 24:19
  empowered by the Holy Spirit, specifically as it relates to
• 24:26
  the gifts of the Spirit and how that intersects with the
• 24:30
  spiritual disciplines we've been talking about.
• 24:33
  And those times when the Spirit's really moving and
• 24:38
  speaking in our lives and in our church, you know, the how the
• 24:43
  Spirit produces fruit in our lives, which may be a shock to
• 24:48
  some of our American listeners. Isn't leading other people to
• 24:53
  Jesus as important as that is. But the fruit of the Spirit that
• 24:57
  he produces in our lives, there's things like Lovejoy,
• 25:00
  peace, patience, kindness, goodness, all those things Paul
• 25:03
  talks about there in Galatians 5.
• 25:07
  It's, it's the character of Christ being formed in US and
• 25:12
  the significance of that happening so that we can become
• 25:16
  the kind of people that God can entrust with his Spirit and his
• 25:20
  power and all those kind of things.
• 25:22
  So that's where we're headed for those six weeks.
• 25:27
  Then June will look a little different.
• 25:28
  And then over the summer we're going to get a lot more nitty
• 25:33
  gritty about some of those gifts of the Spirit and what that what
• 25:39
  they look like, how they operate in the church, all that kind of
• 25:43
  stuff. Build some common language
• 25:45
  together, try and help people figure out how the Spirit, what
• 25:51
  gift they might have from the Spirit to build up the church
• 25:54
  and help reach the World. And because, spoiler alert,
• 26:00
  everyone has something. Every Christian has something
• 26:05
  given and by the Spirit to do. Well, that's our conversation
• 26:08
  for today. But that doesn't mean the
• 26:10
  conversation is over. We'd love to hear your thoughts
• 26:12
  on these topics as well. To ask a question about anything
• 26:16
  we've discussed in this episode or to join the conversation, you
• 26:19
  can head over to fumccollingswood.org/podcast.
• 26:24
  Thanks for being part of this conversation.