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Trump's War on Your Kids' Toys · Pod Save America

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: I'm Dan Pfeiffer.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: On today's show, Trump reacts to more bad economic news
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: by telling Americans to stop buying our kids so many toys.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: real thing. He also admits that he's not following a
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Supreme Court order in part because he seems to believe
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: that a photoshopped picture of Kilmer Obrego Garcia's knuckles is real.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: We'll talk about what's going on in our elderly president's
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: big beautiful brain. We'll also talk about how Democrats are
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: responding to Trump's first hundred days, including my conversation with
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer, who told me she believes we're
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: in the just one day after she hugged the man
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: responsible before an event where she thanked him for saving
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: a Michigan Air Force base. Lots going on with Gretchen Whitmer,
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: so tune in for that later. But let's start with
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: the breaking news. Dan, we got a shake-up. We got
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: our first white house shake-up. What's happening? Trump announced that
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: National Security Advisor Mike Waltz, who started the world's most
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: famous group chat, is being nominated for U.N. Ambassador and
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: that Secretary of State Marco Rubio will also serve... his
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: interim national security advisor. It's been reported that Walz's deputy,
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: Alex Wong, will also step down from his job. The
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: news came as a surprise to just about everyone in Washington,
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: including Rubio's State Department spokesperson, Tammy Bruce, who found out
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: in the middle of her briefing. Let's listen.
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: The president has just written on Truth Social that Mike
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: Walz is going to become the new U.S.
• 1:47
  Speaker 4: Ambassador to the United Nations.
• 1:48
  Speaker 5: Well, there you go. Fabulous.
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: And in addition to that, he says that in the interim,
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: Secretary of State Marco Rubio will serve as national security
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: advisor while continuing his strong leadership at the State Department.
• 2:02
  Speaker 4: Do you know how long he's going to be serving
• 2:05
  Speaker 4: in both roles?
• 2:05
  Speaker 5: It is clear that I just heard this from you.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm no expert here, but is that what
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: usually happens in the briefings? The spokespeople learn news from
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: the reporters?
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: When it does, it's very interesting.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: So the guy who started Signalgate is now up for
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: a job that requires a Senate confirmation hearing. Lil Marco
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: gets a second job and more opportunities for Trump to
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: emasculate him in public. And Trump's pal Laura Loomer, the
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: proud Islamophobe and 9-11 truther, is taking credit for Walt's
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: and Wong's departure. She texted a one-word message to Politico, loomered.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: What do you make of all this? Where would you
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: like to begin?
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: With loomered as a verb?
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh, that's a whole thing.
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: She loomers people.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: That's great. I feel like you should turn Favreau into
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: a verb.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: Favreau? What does that mean?
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: Whenever you beat someone in a Twitter fight, I'll just
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: respond with Favreau! Six exclamation points.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: Please don't do that. Please don't do that.
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: Here's what I think. to make of this whole thing.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: It is not unusual, although 102 days is an unusually
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: short period of time, but it's not unusual for a
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: president to have to make a personnel change early. You
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: hire these people, maybe they fit in, maybe they're not
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: the right person, you got to make a change. So
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: hiring the wrong person is not the sin here. The
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: sin is how they executed this. Just do the timeline
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: of events here. Well, Signalgate was weeks ago when everyone
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: called for his firing. Trump defended him, said it wasn't
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: a big deal, sent out every Republican in America to
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: defend him. Then Michael Walls goes out on TV this
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: morning to show for the administration.
• 3:43
  Speaker 6: Then it is leaked to.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: Disgraced white-wing journalist Mark Halperin that these firings are happening.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: Then no one in the White House seems to know,
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: so it takes a long time for anyone of consequence
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: to be able to confirm it. Then hours later, as
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: you pointed out, Trump announces via True Social that Michael
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: Walls is going to become the ambassador to the United Nations,
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: a job that is vacant 102 days of the Donald
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: Trump had to pull the nomination of the person of
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: Elise Stefanik because, like Mike Walz, he had nominated a
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: bunch of people from the House during the most narrow
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: House majority in like a century. There's Senate confirmation for that.
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: It is also a job where it's bad to invite
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: reporters to group chats involving top secret information. He has
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: no plan for who is going to replace Mike Walz,
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: so he appoints the Secretary of State, a person who
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: has an entirely other job, that requires them to travel
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: the world, making it very hard to be the interim
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: national security advisor, a job that largely requires you to
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: be in the White House running a policy process.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: Well, it requires you to be in the White House
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: unless you conduct most of your job over Signal.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: That is true. That is a good point. And then
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: the Tammy Bruce, that he points Marco Rubio that, but
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: no one in the State Department. Marco Rubio might have
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: learned In that moment with Tammy Bruce that he was
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: the international security advisor.
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: I like to think that's probably what happened.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: There are so many hard things that happen for presidents,
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: so many tough decisions, so many tough things. And when
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: they screw up the easy stuff, it should make you
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: really worried about the hard stuff. And they fumbled every
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: bit of this throughout the process. It's a giant mess.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: What happened to Susie Wiles running a tight ship?
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I never really bought that one, John.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: She... Even... Around the 100 days, there's some interview where
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: she's like, yeah, she succeeded because she never tries to
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: calm Trump down or change things or anything, but she's
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: really good at creating a process and getting things in
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: order via process. It seems like this process got away
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: from her a little bit.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: It seems like they all do.
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: So everyone obviously went right to Signalgate on why Waltz
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: lost his job, got a promotion. Who knows what it is?
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: But The Atlantic did some reporting on this. And apparently, like,
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: Signalgate was just one of many issues that he had.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: But way before Signalgate, there was this view that he
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: wasn't MAGA enough for the rest of the crew, that
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: he was too much of a neocon, too much of
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: a hawk.
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: Hence the Loomering.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: Hence the Loomering.
• 6:14
  Speaker 7: Yes.
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: He didn't play well with others, couldn't manage his staff well. Apparently,
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: not only did he piss off Laura Loomer, because I
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: guess he wasn't enough of a fucking lunatic. But he
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: pissed off Susie Wiles, speaking of Susie Wiles, because he
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: treated her like staff, reportedly, when that's not what you
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: do to the White House chief of staff because she's
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: the chief of staff.
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: Could you read me back Susie Wiles' title again?
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she would be the chief of staff.
• 6:41
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: Chief of staff.
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: I remember one of– I think it was maybe Dennis
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: McDonough telling us he'd gotten some advice from former chiefs
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: of staff. And the best chiefs of staff are the
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: ones who think the emphasis goes on staff, not chief.
• 6:52
  Speaker 4: Hmm.
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: Seems like Susie Wiles falls in the former category there.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: It was also funny right after this Mike Waltz announcement.
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: There was a picture of him that Reuters caught from
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: yesterday's cabinet meeting, Wednesday's cabinet meeting or Tuesday, whenever the
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: fuck it was. And it's just a picture of him
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: on Signal. And they zoom in and you can see
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: he's got a conversation with J.D. Vance and one with
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: Marco Rubio and a call from Tulsi Gabbard and another
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: message from Steve Witkoff. So he just has his phone
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: out in view of the cameras texting people on Signal.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: Yes, that is irresponsible, as we've said before. It's A,
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: irresponsible to use Signal. It's B, irresponsible to use Signal
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: on live television. But it's also a violation of the
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: Presidential Records Act. They're doing all of this to avoid
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: creating records that could then be subpoenaed one day by
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: non-absequious prosecutors or a Democratic majority or whatever else. That
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: keeps getting glossed over by the idiocy of adding Jeff
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: Goldberg to the group chat.
• 8:03
  Speaker 7: Right.
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we've skipped over the whole Presidential Records Act you required.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: All that bullshit. So what are your thoughts on whether–
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: Mike Waltz actually gets confirmed to be the UN ambassador
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: because he's now going to have to do a confirmation hearing.
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: He's answered some reporters' questions, or he used to answer
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: a few reporters' questions about Signal. A lot of what
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: he said to the reporters was just lies. Now he's
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: going to have to go to a Senate confirmation hearing,
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: be under oath, and answer even more questions about Signal,
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: which is probably not great for him, not great for
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: Pete Hegseth, not great for any of them.
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: You raising these questions are Has happened before anyone in
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: the Trump administration raised those questions.
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: Unless this was like punishment. Maybe it's not a promotion.
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: Maybe it's just punishment.
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: I think this is Donald Trump realizing that he asked
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: this guy to give up his congressional career for 102
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: days of humiliating servitude and was just looking for a
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: place to put him. And also, there was some reporting
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: on this before that one of the reasons why Trump
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: did not fire him in the outset was he didn't
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: want to give his critics a win. So by being
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: able to pretend that this is some sort of promotion
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: to this necessary but vacant position, he can continue to
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: live in that reality. When you actually get– will he
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: actually get confirmed? I think that's an open question. This
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: is an easy– not an easy– Trump doesn't care about
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: this guy. So this isn't like sinking RFK Jr. or Hegseth.
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: Like will he be able to answer those questions under oath?
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: Will that go well? It's a good question.
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: Who knows? I mean one thing is for sure. It
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: guarantees that the whole signal scandal– is in the news
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: for another day, someday down the line, whatever the hearing is.
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: So that's fun.
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: We had actually, people had stopped talking about Signal. And
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: so Trump waited to the exact moment when it finally
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: faded from the news to then fire this guy and
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: bring it right back up again. Just master communicator of
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: that one.
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: Well, excited for Marco for his new job. Just more
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: opportunities to be. humiliated.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: Can I give you a take on this?
• 10:02
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: I think this is the way in which he gets
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: Marco out and Steve Witkoff in.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: Oh, like for good, for good?
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: For good, for good.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: Both from all the jobs?
• 10:09
  Speaker 5: Oh, well, no.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: Marco also has a third job, by the way, that
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: we should mention, which he is the national archivist.
• 10:15
  Speaker 6: National archivist.
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: Is he no longer running USAID?
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: Well, USAID is like officially done. It doesn't exist, yeah.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: Whatever foreign aid we still have is within the State Department.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: So in that sense, he's there.
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: He's like the security guard at a zombie mall, basically.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: He's got all the important jobs, Marco.
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: But what I think happens here is he does this
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: job for a while. Trump decides he should do the job.
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: He forces him to give up his State Department job.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: Whitcroft comes in. And now Trump has his... punching bag
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: with him every single day. The problem is it's hard
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: to humiliate Rubio when he's off in different time zones
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: all the time. Now he will be down the hall.
• 10:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: I mean, the only way that he could humiliate Rubio
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: more at this point is to put an actual dog
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: collar around him and have a chain where Rubio is
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: just walking next to Trump on all fours. I mean,
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: can we get that for the potter? This is the
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: first hundred days.
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: So I hope someone is going to an AI image
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: creator and see if we can get that made.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking of the scene, the end of the movie.
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: What was it? This is the End? Remember the one with...
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: You know the scene I'm talking about.
• 11:28
  Speaker 4: Seth Rogen?
• 11:29
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Anyway, that's what I'm thinking about. Pod Save America
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  Speaker 1: All right, let's get to something that really matters. Donald
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: Trump's new war on Christmas, which is part of his
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: broader war on the US economy and people who buy things.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: On Wednesday, we got the news that the economy actually
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: shrank over the first few months of 2025, despite being
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: projected to grow. To save you all the trouble of
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: Googling the official definition of a recession, it's two consecutive
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: quarters of the economy shrinking. So one down, one to go.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: The worst part The GDP data that we got is
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: from January through March. So before Trump announced his Liberation
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: Day tariffs that are currently wreaking havoc all over the
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: world and the markets, tanking consumer confidence, causing all kinds
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: of U.S. companies to warn us about empty shelves, higher prices,
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: factory closings, layoffs. Trump was asked about all this during
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: the cabinet meeting where Mike Welch was very busy on Signal.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: And boy, boy, did Trump nail the answer. Let's listen.
• 15:03
  Speaker 5: Core GDP, and this is, you know, you probably saw
• 15:07
  Speaker 5: some numbers today. And I have to start off by saying,
• 15:09
  Speaker 5: that's Biden. That's not Trump, because we came in on January.
• 15:13
  Speaker 5: This is the quarterly numbers. So this is Biden. And
• 15:17
  Speaker 5: you can even say the next quarter is sort of Biden,
• 15:19
  Speaker 5: because it doesn't just happen on a daily or an
• 15:21
  Speaker 5: hourly basis. They made a trillion dollars with Biden, a
• 15:25
  Speaker 5: trillion dollars, even a trillion one with Biden. Selling us stuff.
• 15:31
  Speaker 5: Much of it we don't need. You know, somebody said, oh,
• 15:33
  Speaker 5: the shelves are going to be open. Well, maybe the
• 15:36
  Speaker 5: children will have two dolls instead of 30 dolls, you know.
• 15:39
  Speaker 5: And maybe the two dolls will cost a couple of
• 15:41
  Speaker 5: bucks more than they would normally.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: This is a man who told Jeffrey Goldberg and Ashley
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: Parker and Michael Schur when they were in the Oval
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: Office to look up at the ceiling because it's covered
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: in 24 karat gold.
• 15:56
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: Who needs the extra dolls for Christmas? It's an actual
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: line that the man said, the President of the United States.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: As you might imagine, this one's breaking through. Even the
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: New York Post, Rupert Murdoch's New York Post, made it
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: Thursday's cover story with the headline, Skimp on the Barbie.
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: And that is fucking great. They know what they're doing
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: at the.
• 16:22
  Speaker 5: New York Post.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: They're very good at headlines.
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: Gotta hand it to them.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: They're really bad at other things, but headlines they're very
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: good at.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: Skimp on the Barbie. Trump admits that tariffs will raise
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: some prices, cause shortages. Donald Trump has obviously said a
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: countless number of dumb and politically damaging things in the
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: decade we've been covering him. This has to be in
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: the top five, top 10, top 20. What do you think?
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: Top 10, at least. Top 10, right? It would be
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: mentally painful for us and the audience to try to
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: go through them one by one to figure out, to
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: rank them.
• 16:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: That would be bad content.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: I think, I mean, dumb is impossible, but if you're
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: also including politically damaging, you know, the guy gets elected
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: again against the odds because they think, well, at least
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: he'll be good for the economy and he'll bring prices down.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: Then he's like, fuck you, you don't need that many toys.
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: Well, in the moment, it's just another crazy thing he said.
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: But as the weeks go on and the shelves get
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: empty and the prices go up, This becomes more painful.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: And then when you put it in the context of
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: you're telling people to do without toys, to be willing
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: that you should just suck it up and pay more
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: for things at the same time that he is trying
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: to pass a massive tax cut for rich people paid
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: for by cutting healthcare for working class people and stuffing
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: his pockets full of billions of dollars of foreign crypto money.
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: Like you need that in context. And this will be
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: one of those things, well, will this fade away like
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: all the other Trump things? Well, that's actually something we
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: all control. And so it's up to Democrats and everyone
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: else to remind people of this when the shelves are empty, right?
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: We are weeks away from this. The last container ships
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: filled with stuff that was pre-tariffs have come. And the
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: next ones are going to be empty or with more
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: expensive stuff. There's just an announcement today that Microsoft is
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: raising the price of Xboxes by 25%. And the stuff
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: that we need for the holiday season, those toys, that
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: is the stuff coming now and in the coming weeks
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: all under the tariff.
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: Regime that line about the toys which you could combine
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: with any number of statements from donald trump and the
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: rest of his administration on like we don't need cheap
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: goods we don't need tvs americans are buying too much
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: shit who cares a little bit of pain no big
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: deal i mean there's just line after line like this
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: should be burned into the minds of the american people
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: so that they can recite them in their sleep that
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: is That is how much content, ads, everything else the
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: Democrats should be putting out on this. Like, you shouldn't
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: be able to go anywhere without hearing that line from
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump about the toys.
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: Billboards.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: Especially around Christmas.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: We need billboards outside of Targets and Walmarts. That's what
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: we need.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: Oh, man. Stephen Miller tried to clean this up at
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: his briefing today where he was screaming about how children
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: must learn to love America in our schools. They will
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: learn to love America. And someone asked him about this
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: and he said... Look, if you have a choice between
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: a doll from China that might have lead paint on
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: it and not be well constructed and a doll from
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: America that's made with great environmental standards, which Trump is
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: repealing all of them, you'd probably be willing to pay
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: more for the American doll.
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: There are no American dolls. I think the American doll
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: might be made in China. I have to check on that.
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: I think like 80% of toys that we buy in
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: this country.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: I think it's higher than that.
• 19:49
  Speaker 4: It is.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, it would.
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: Be nice if we had a doll industry in America
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: to supplement these Chinese dolls. And maybe it'd be a
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: little more expensive to buy high quality, non-lead paint, like
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: union made dolls.
• 20:04
  Speaker 6: But those don't exist.
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: That's not a thing.
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: Doesn't exist. That's what Stephen Miller is saying. Three Trump
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: officials told Rolling Stone that they're already stockpiling goods at Target.
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: Bulk toilet paper, food, household supplies. They're also stashing cash
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: reserves in their homes in.
• 20:24
  Speaker 7: D.C.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: And the reason they're doing this is because, and this
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: was a quote one of them gave Rolling Stone, it
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: would be stupid not to.
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: Explain the cash reserves. Because I understand the other stuff.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: That's a little frightening.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: What do we not know that they know about the
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: banking system right now?
• 20:39
  Speaker 7: I know.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: That is somewhat alarming. That is somewhat alarming. Also, here's
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: from the US.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: Also, sorry, if these guys were true Trump fans, they
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: would have been stocking themselves with Trump coins.
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
• 20:50
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: That is a good idea. The Trump meme coins. That's
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: a perfect story about the Trump economy. You can't get
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: actual things on the shelves, but you can buy the
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: fake coins that make the president richer.
• 21:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: Perfect, perfect, perfect, perfect.
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: The U.S. Toy Association, which is what represents all the
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: toy manufacturers in the United States, says, quote, we have
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: a frozen supply chain that is putting Christmas at risk.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: If we don't start production soon, there's a high probability
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: of a toy shortage this holiday season. Are you going
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: to start buying your kids toys for Christmas now? I
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: feel like I should go on Amazon tonight and start
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: buying some toys.
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: Here's the thing. I wish I could. But the odds
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: that what they like now is what they're going to
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: like in December.
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: Seems impossible to imagine.
• 21:33
  Speaker 7: You're right.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: I know. I know.
• 21:34
  Speaker 7: I know.
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: Let's just buy some Legos. What's your take on the
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: effectiveness of blaming Joe Biden for this one, as Trump
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: has been doing? I would note that all the way
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: back before Trump took office, when stocks were going up,
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: Trump posted, this is the Trump stock market, because his
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: theory then was the stock market was going up because
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: everyone was so excited that Donald Trump got elected and
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: was about to become president. Now the stock market's down.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: It's Joe Biden's fault.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think this one's going to work, John.
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: Let me just give you three poll numbers that go
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: at the core of the flaw in Trump's argument. In
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: the NPR PBS Marist College poll that came out last week,
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: 60% of Americans said the current economic conditions are mostly
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: a result of Trump's policies, while only 39% said he
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: inherited them. In the CBS News YouGov poll, 54% said
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: that Trump's policies were more responsible for the state of
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: the economy. Only 21% said about Biden. And in the
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: Gallup poll, 89% of Americans say that tariffs, Trump's signature policy,
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: will lead to higher prices.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: I mean, yeah. Well, I guess all those Americans in
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: the majority nailed it because that's the truth.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're exactly right. I mean, it is fascinating how
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: Trump screwed this up because as we know all too well,
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: for almost the entirety of Obama's first term, if you
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: ask people who was more responsible for the state of
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: the economy, they would pick Bush over Obama. Because they
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: understood that the financial crisis happened before Obama. There was
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: a world in which Trump could have come in and
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: he would never actually do this, but a smart, normal
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: human would say, we didn't get in this mess overnight.
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: It's going to take us a while to get out
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: of it, but we're going to be working on it. Instead,
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: he declared several times during the campaign that prices would
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: go down immediately. Inflation would be vanquished. And so he
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: set expectations the wrong way and then put in place
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: a policy designed to do the exact opposite of what
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: he ran on. And so, no, I don't think blaming
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: Joe Biden is going to work here.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: Though they are doing the old Biden strategy of, you know,
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: get Stephen Miller out there and be like, egg prices
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: are down. And actually inflation is down and grocery prices
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: are down. It's like, all right, man, you tell us
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: all the made up statistics you want about how great
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: the fucking economy is. When the shelves are empty and
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: the prices have risen and the factories close and the
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: people are laid off, guess what? We're going to know
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: it's bullshit.
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: People, they see the price of eggs. They know.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: We haven't even had the chance to talk about the
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: Amazon story from earlier this week. There was reporting on
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: Monday that the company was considering displaying the cost of
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: Trump's tariffs next to products on its website, which got
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: me very excited. The White House immediately went to war,
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: calling it a hostile and political act. Trump then called
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: up his new pal Jeff Bezos, and wouldn't you know,
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: Amazon put out a statement saying the tariff indicator was
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: only under consideration for Amazon Hall Marketplace, which competes directly
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: with Chinese retailers. that have actually been displaying the tariff
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: price increases. Meanwhile, UPS says it's going to lay off 20,000
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: people and close 73 facilities because of lower volume from Amazon.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: Some of that is pre-planned, but the CEO acknowledged on
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: an earnings call that the tariffs are creating huge uncertainty,
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: saying the world hasn't been faced with such enormous potential
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: impacts to trade in more than 100 years. Making history again.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: Is that a Smoot-Hawley reference?
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: I think it might be, yeah. GM also said on
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: Thursday that it stands to lose $ 4 to $ 5 billion
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: in profit this year because of the tariffs. Question for you.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: Why would it have been a hostile and political act
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: for Amazon to let consumers know about the impacts of
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: the tariffs that Donald Trump loves so much? I thought
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: these tariffs are going to make us rich. It's going
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: to make America great again. It's going to bring back manufacturing.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: He should be proud of advertising what the tariffs are doing.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: Why hide them?
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: Well, I think here in the dystopian wannabe dictatorship in
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: which we live, anything that could possibly be described as
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: criticism of the regime is a hostile political act. It's
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: why Trump is directing the Department of Justice to investigate
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: his critics like Christopher Krebs and Miles Taylor. It's why
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: he's going after companies who he thinks don't have it
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: share his interest. It's why they're going after universities. And so, yeah,
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: of course they view this as a hostile political act. Also,
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: most importantly- it exposes the giant idiotic lie at the
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: center of the tariff policy, which is that the foreign
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: government pays the tariff, not you.
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: Does Bezos think a pissed off Trump could do more
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: damage to his companies than Trump's trade war? It seems
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: to be like, that's the calculation he's making by being like,
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: Oh no, I would never do that. And he's still,
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: he's still playing nice with Trump right now. Like why
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: not display? If you, if you really, if it am,
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: I guess we'll see how the trade war goes. Um,
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: as it continues, but why not display the tariff tax
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: next to each product?
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: I think pretty clearly Trump could do more damage to
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: Jeff Bezos' companies than the tariffs could do. Because Blue Origin,
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: his space company that exists to send Katy Perry to
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: the moon, depends on government contracts. Amazon gets a ton
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: of government contracts for delivery of logistic stuff. Imagine if
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: Trump unleashed the regulatory hounds on Amazon, right? The FTC,
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: all of those things. So they could do real lasting
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: damage if you assume that this trade war has some
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: end date. And Amazon is also a reseller of other
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: people's products. The people who is really in their interest
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: to do it is the people who make and sell
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: the products themselves, like car companies, right? So you understand
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: like Amazon.
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: Whether they're not necessarily the one... They're going to lose
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: business over this. We're going to lose business whether the
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: tariffs are indicated or not. If you're a company that
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: makes a product whose cost is about to go up,
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: you want to show your people, your customers, why the
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: price is going up, that it's not just you jacking
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: prices up. Amazon, one way or the other, doesn't... I
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: don't think may not care that much. They should care.
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: It would be the right thing to do, but that's
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: not really... That's never really been their deal.
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: So Bezos still in Trump's pocket for now.
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's working out great for him, I'd say.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's crushing it. Trump also made some non-tariff news
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: during his 100 Days Week celebration that might be of
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: interest to the Supreme Court. During a contentious Oval Office
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: interview with ABC's Terry Moran, Trump was asked about the
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: Supreme Court's order that he facilitate the release of Kilmer
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: Obrego Garcia. Here's how it went.
• 28:00
  Speaker 5: The order from the Supreme Court stands, sir. You came
• 28:02
  Speaker 5: into our country illegally. You could get him back. There's
• 28:05
  Speaker 5: a phone on this desk. I could.
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: You could pick it up, and with all the power
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: of the presidency, you could call up the president of
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: El Salvador and.
• 28:11
  Speaker 5: Say, send him back right now. And if he were
• 28:13
  Speaker 5: the gentleman that you say he is, I would do that.
• 28:16
  Speaker 5: But the court has ordered you to facilitate that. I'm
• 28:19
  Speaker 5: not the one making this decision. We have lawyers that
• 28:22
  Speaker 5: don't want to do this. But the buck stops in
• 28:24
  Speaker 5: this office. No, no, no, no. I follow the law.
• 28:27
  Speaker 5: You want me to follow the law? If I were
• 28:29
  Speaker 5: the president that just wanted to do anything, I'd probably
• 28:32
  Speaker 5: keep him right where he is. On his knuckles, he
• 28:35
  Speaker 5: had MS-13.
• 28:35
  Speaker 6: There's a dispute over that.
• 28:37
  Speaker 5: Wait a minute.
• 28:38
  Speaker 4: Wait a minute.
• 28:39
  Speaker 5: He had MS-13 on his knuckle tattoo.
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: He had some tattoos that are interpreted that way, but
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: let's move on.
• 28:44
  Speaker 5: Wait a minute. Hey, Terry, Terry, Terry. He did not
• 28:47
  Speaker 5: have the letter MS-13. It says MS-13. That was Photoshopped.
• 28:52
  Speaker 5: That was Photoshopped, Terry.
• 28:54
  Speaker 6: You can't do that.
• 28:55
  Speaker 5: Hey, they're giving you the big break of a lifetime.
• 28:57
  Speaker 5: You know, you're doing the interview. I picked you because, frankly,
• 29:00
  Speaker 5: I never heard of you, but that's okay. I picked you, Terry,
• 29:04
  Speaker 5: but you're not being very nice.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: This is not the most important part of that, but
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: I picked you because I didn't know who you were.
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: I think there's a chance for us, Dan.
• 29:12
  Speaker 6: That's true.
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: You know, we just got to get into the right
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: signal chat.
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: Just sneak right in there. So for those of you
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: who missed this particular storyline, what happened there is at
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: some point they had Trump in the Oval with the,
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: there are tattoos across Kilmer Obrego Garcia's knuckles and the
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: White House decided to Photoshop on top of the photo
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: of the tattoos on his knuckles, ms13 because they have
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: decided to buy into a conspiracy that the marijuana leaf
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: stands for m and then there's a an s and
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: then there's this that stands for the one and this
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: that stands for the three and they've put it all
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: together there's a bunch of red string on a billboard
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: somewhere and um and so they gave it to trump
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: and he held up the picture that said ms13 there
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: is of course No MS-13 on his knuckles, which you
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: can see from any picture of him, of his knuckles.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: You can see it in any of the pictures from
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: El Salvador. Also, actual people who've conducted decades of research
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: on MS-13, law enforcement officials who've prosecuted MS-13, they say
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: they've never seen those tattoos associated with MS-13.
• 30:16
  Speaker 5: Well, obviously.
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: Why would you possibly do that? Maybe they should get
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: T-shirts that say, I am guilty. It's absurd. I think
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: this story has not gotten enough attention.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you think?
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: The President of the United States sat in the Oval
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: Office and communicated to the world a photoshopped image alleging
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: that someone was part of a gang.
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: Also, we've talked about tattoos in relation to the Tren
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: de Aragua Venezuelan migrants that they are shipping to El Salvador.
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: The government, nowhere in any of the court filings or
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: court records or the the gang worksheet that was filled
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: out by the PG County cop that ended up getting
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: suspended for misconduct and fired. Nowhere in any of that
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: is the government or anyone alleging that his ties, his
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: alleged ties to MS-13 had anything to do with the tattoos.
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: The tattoos have never come up anywhere.
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: Do you think if he had gone into court that
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: day with MS-13 tattooed on his hands, would have been
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: in dispute? No, of course not. And, We have the
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: pictures from Chris Van Hollen's visit and someone photoshopped it
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: and then a bunch of fucking yahoos of the White
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: House either wittingly or unwittingly decided to believe it and
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: then broadcast it to the world. Like I know the
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: president has immunity. Thank you, Supreme Court. But like that
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: is defamation like hands down.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, and I can't tell, it's like, does he
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: truly believe this? He does. Is he just lying?
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: No, he believes it.
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: I think he truly believes it.
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: I think one of the takeaways in the Oval Office interview,
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: Oval Office meeting with Bukele, and the way he talked
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: about Terry Moran is, he is in a completely fucked
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: up information bubble. He does not know what's in the
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: Supreme Court case. Maybe he has some sense it's not
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: as clear cut as the Stephen Miller 9-0 thing, but
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: he hasn't read it. He doesn't know. He's not reading
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: anyone who's going to tell him what the real truth is. Frankly,
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: most people around him don't seem to be either. And
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: I think Trump 100% believes it. And I think some
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: of the people probably believe it.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: I think Stephen Miller is like a pathological liar, pathological
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: many things, just a sociopath.
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: It's a pathogen, honestly.
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: But he is lying all the time about everything, knows
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: he's lying, doesn't care. And Trump trusts Stephen Miller, as
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: he has said many times before and told interviewers and everything.
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: So I think that Stephen Miller is just feeding him
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: a bunch of shit about immigration and he's just, you know,
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: buying whatever Stephen Miller says because he knows that he
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: doesn't really like immigrants and he wants to get a
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: bunch of people out of the country. And beyond that,
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: he doesn't want to get into the details, you know?
• 33:03
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: His natural assumption... is that Kilmar must be an MS-13.
• 33:08
  Speaker 4: Yes. Yes.
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: And so anything that validates that notion, he will automatically believe.
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: So the New York Times also reported this week that
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: the White House sent a diplomatic note to Bukele asking
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: him to release Abrego Garcia, which the dictator apparently declined. That,
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: of course, contradicts what Trump told Terry Moran about how
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: he could pick up the phone at any moment and
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: get him back. He just doesn't want to because he
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: doesn't think he's a good man. But then he also
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: said he didn't because his lawyers said it wasn't a
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: good idea. How do you think all that's going to
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: land with the nine justices on the Supreme Court when
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: this inevitably comes back to them?
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: I really can't believe that democracy is going to hand
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: you on the interpretation of the word facilitate.
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: I know.
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: On the merits, this would be open and shut. They
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: said you have to do it. He said on national
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: television that he could do it. He said he has
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: not done it. And then they assumed just covered his
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: ass by sending this fake note that Bukele knew to reject.
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: And I think the reason they did that is because
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: if you look at the Supreme Court decision and they,
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: you know, they draw the distinction between facilitate and effectuate,
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: and you could see a situation where the government says, okay,
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: we tried, we asked to get him back, but then
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: now Bukele said, no, now this is squarely in the
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: realm of foreign policy and diplomatic relations and the court
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: can't tell the administration, the executive branch, how to run
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: their foreign policy. We tried, sorry. That might have worked
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: were it not for Trump sitting in the Oval Office
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: telling the world through Terry Moran that actually I could
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: pick up the phone myself, but I just don't want to.
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: And also my lawyers don't want to.
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: It all comes down to the willingness of the court
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: to force a confrontation with Trump. They wrote the decision-
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: to give some space to avoid a confrontation. And Trump
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: is now forcing it. And when they, when push comes
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: to shove, will they actually again, demand he do it
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: in stronger language?
• 35:14
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: And you could say, look, he'll get, I could see
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: Thomas Alito and then who knows who else saying, oh,
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: they did send the diplomatic note and that's, they tried,
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: you know? So that is, they tried to do that,
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: but I don't, I don't know if that's going to
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: be enough for anyone, anyone who's a straight shooter.
• 35:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: Well, I hate to tell you this, John, but.
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: Well, look, John Roberts is just calling balls and strikes.
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: A judge in Texas, another judge, multiple judges have ruled
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: this now, just ruled today as we're recording this on Thursday,
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: that Trump's use of the Alien Enemies Act to send
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: people to El Salvador without due process is illegal. That no,
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: you cannot just say that we are being invaded by
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: a foreign government because you somehow make the connection that
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: Trend de Aragua... is invading the country at the behest
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: of the Venezuelan government. There's no evidence of that, including,
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: by the way, the State Department says there's no evidence
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: of that. Trump's own State Department, and there's a cable
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: that says that. And so the judge ruled it's illegal.
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: And what's interesting about that is it is a Trump judge.
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: It is another conservative Trump judge is like, no. And
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: that's actually a big deal because the Supreme Court has
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: not touched this part of this yet, which is, Trump's
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: invocation of the alien enemies act constitutional is the appropriate
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: place to use it. And, um, that's going to end
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: up at the Supreme court too. And I think that's
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: a tough, I think that's a tough one to prove
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: as well.
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: Not, I'm not a constitutional scholar here, but of course
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: it doesn't fucking allow it. The whole point is that
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: you have to be invaded and you can't just make
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: up fake invasions from street gangs.
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: Well, how will Supreme court rule? Don't know. But once again,
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: on a pure common sense level, they should not be
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: allowed to use this law to deport people without due process.
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And at least we've started this case with at
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: least one Trump judge has said this is a no-no.
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: So we'll see what the others say. One bit of
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: good news we wanted to touch on before moving on,
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: Columbia University activist Mohsen Madawi, who was arrested in April
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: at his naturalization interview, was released by a federal judge
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: in Vermont on Wednesday who likened his detention to the
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: McCarthy-era Red Scare. Speaking outside the courthouse, Madawi said, we
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: have to mobilize, we have to organize, we have to
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: invest in peace and center compassion and empathy. And he
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: told the Trump administration, I am not afraid of you.
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: What do you think? Do you have the sense that
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: the tide may be turning on the student visa purge? Maybe.
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: It kind of feels like it. The administration has backed
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: off on a lot of it. There's been a lot
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: of very good public demonstration against it and public pressure
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: put in place. And so we'll see, right? You never
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: want to claim victory the Trump administration on an immigration issue.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: But it seems like the momentum for what they were
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: doing has stopped. And there were too few people when
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: the first cases started happening where people were afraid to
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: speak up. They were afraid. And that seems to have changed.
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: And the fact that people have spoken up, both political leaders,
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: university presidents, others in the community, protesters themselves, has changed
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: the tide here. I think that's a positive sign.
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: Marco Rubio, the Secretary of State, does have, unfortunately, a
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: lot of leeway. to terminate visas if he believes the
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: visa holder, the student represents a threat to our foreign
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: policy or national security or would, you know, their existence
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: in the country would mean adverse effects for our foreign policy,
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: whatever the exact language is. But you still have to like,
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: you still have to prove that. You know, you have
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: to have some evidence for that. And I don't think
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: an op-ed in the case, some cases, or just showing
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: up at a peaceful protest is, I don't know that
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: that's going to be enough for the courts.
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: It shouldn't be.
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: It shouldn't be. It shouldn't be. It wasn't in this case,
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: at least. Pod Save America is brought to you by Helix.
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  Speaker 6: I am, but it's just simply not happening. I would love. God,
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  Speaker 1: Honestly, it sounds like a dream.
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  Speaker 6: Watching a lot of YouTubes about science.
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  Speaker 1: mattress order. HelixSleep.com slash Cricut. Let's talk about how Democrats
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: have been responding to Trump's 100 days week celebration with
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: lots of posting, protesting and speechifying, including a return to
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: the spotlight for Kamala Harris, who gave a big speech
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: late Wednesday night in San Francisco, where she called Trump's tariffs, quote,
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: the greatest manmade economic crisis in modern presidential history and
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: warned of a constitutional crisis. She also praised fellow Democrats for, quote,
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: speaking with moral clarity about this moment. What did you
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: make of the speech? Why give it now?
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: Well, I give it now as an interesting question because
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: we are more than 100 days in. This is really
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: the first time anyone has heard her speak since her
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: concession speech at Howard University. That is a sort of
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: an unprecedented period of time for someone to stay silent,
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: particularly someone who reportedly has political ambitions for something beyond this.
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: It's not just someone who lost and then that was
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: the end of their career.
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: She had some event– That was like sort of little
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: remarked on where she spoke a little bit about people
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: finding courage. And then she spoke out, she toured the
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: fire damage in LA and said a few things there.
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: But that's really been it.
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: This is for her first comment. And this was pitched as,
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: like we saw stories about, this was pitched as her
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: first remarks. My takeaway here is that she is someone
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: who is still processing the loss and in a bit
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: of purgatory about her political future. Does she want to
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: run for governor? Does she want to run for president?
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: Or does she want to do neither and do something
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: else with her life? I mean, I think she's declared
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: she wants to stay involved in some way, but that
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: does not necessarily entail elective office. And I think this
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: speech looks one way if she's decided to run for governor.
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: I think it looks another way if she's definitely decided
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: that she'd most likely run for president. And it looks
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: a third way if she's decided something else. And she
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: clearly hasn't decided among those things. The other thing I
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: would just say is I'm not sure I would have
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: picked– A speech at a gala event that happened at
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: 8 p.m. Pacific time as my big moment. Like this
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: was probably another way to do this. If she really wanted,
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: maybe she just agreed to this because it's an organization
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: that has supported her and she supports. And so she
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: was going to make the best of it.
• 43:50
  Speaker 6: But.
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: But then her people like. just told all the reporters,
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: this was like a big moment. Like once they started
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: previewing it, it was more than just like, Oh, I
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: was going here anyway.
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: And so I was just, I like, if it had
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: been me, I would have let the air, I would
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: have done something else earlier. It doesn't have to be like,
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: I actually would have not done a speech as my
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: first guy. I would have found a place, you know,
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: you could be in conversation somewhere. You could do a podcast. Uh,
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: you know, like the one, one example I thought was
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: she could go on the, I've had it podcast, which is,
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: you know, where she's, she had been before she was
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: vice president, did a great job. And just obviously positive America,
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: the door is open at any time. But just find
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: a way to just have a more fulsome conversation about everything.
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: What happened? Why you lost? What do you think about
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: happening without having to give? Because a speech just comes
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: with expectations. What are you going to say that's new, right?
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: How are you going to, like, what is your reaction
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: to all the world? I think there's probably a more formal,
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: more modern communications way to do it.
• 44:46
  Speaker 6: But, you know, it was fine.
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: It was fine. Like, this is not the end-all, be-all
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: of the whole thing. I think one other thing that
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: just We don't think, perhaps we don't think about it
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: because we're in it every day, but when you look
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: at the polls of who people think the leader of
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: the Democratic Party is, the plurality by far is Kamala Harris.
• 45:01
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: It's like 28, 30%.
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: How much do you think that's a function of name ID?
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: Well, the other people in there have name IDs.
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: She was just the one who was on the ticket.
• 45:08
  Speaker 6: Yeah, she is.
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: I don't think she is. We have not given her
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: the task of being leader of the party. She hasn't
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: asked for it, but she is a big voice. If
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: you look about people who can get attention in this
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: moment to make a case against Trump, She is on
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: a short list of people who can do that.
• 45:24
  Speaker 5: Yeah. Right.
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: And it seemed like she wanted to give the speech,
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: but not get a ton of attention given how she
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: gave it and when she gave it. So it feels,
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: I guess I would say it feels betwixt in between
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: for me.
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah. To your point about it looks one way if
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: she's running for president, another for governor, another if it's
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: something else. I think if she has, or if she
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: ultimately decides that she's not going to run for anything
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: else and she's just going to, you know, speak out
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: whenever she can and do whatever else. But I think
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: it's like a perfectly fine speech. I think if she's
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: running for president or if she's running for governor of California, then,
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: you know, she just, she needs more. We need to
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: hear more from her because I think it was a
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: lot of, it's just sort of warmed over rhetoric that didn't,
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: she didn't really say anything new or interesting or particularly
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: insightful that we haven't heard before. And look, I don't
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: think this is anything that a consultant or a speechwriter
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: or anyone can give you. I think like, This needs
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: to come from her. I think if she wants to be,
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: she wants to run for president again, she wants to
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: be governor, like she has to decide what she really believes,
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: what she really cares about, offer some actual ideas. And
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: she said at the end of the speech, like, I'm
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: not here to give you all the answers. That's fine.
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: It's a first speech. But I just think that, I
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: just think we need more from her. And look, I
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: think she had an enormously difficult job in the 100
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: days of this campaign. I think she stepped up in
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: a huge way. She deserves all the praise in the
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: world for that. But, you know, you need more. At
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: this point in the country, where the country is right now,
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump president, we're under threat, constitutional crisis, all the
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: stuff we've been talking about. You've got to have something
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: to say about that that is different than just rhetoric.
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: And mostly the speech was just rhetoric.
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: I think the place where I would offer some grace
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: here is We've known people who've run for president and lost,
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: particularly if you're the nominee. And it is a pretty
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: earth-shattering traumatic experience. It takes a long– Al Gore grew
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: a beard. It really– and she's in a particularly strange
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: position where it's like one day she's vice president. She's
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: just going about her life. Maybe she's going to get
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: reelected as vice president or not, but she has this future.
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: And then she gets– she didn't run for president in 2024.
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: She got snatched out of her job, thrown into this
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: thing with 106 days to go. gets his burst of momentum,
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: outperforms all reasonable expectations for most of that campaign, for
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: somebody who's put in that position, and then loses to
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: this horrendous, horrible person. It's clear she's still processing that.
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: She found herself in a situation where she had to
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: say something, hasn't figured out what's next for her or
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: what the next step is. Everything you say about what
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: she said is correct.
• 48:08
  Speaker 6: It's just.
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: She's in a difficult position, I think is worth acknowledging.
• 48:14
  Speaker 6: She is.
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: She is. But this predates this speech and her difficult position.
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: It's like, I just, I really want Kamala Harris to
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: sit down and it's like, no notes, no advisors. What
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: do you think's happening to the country right now? What
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: is bothering you? What do you want to fix? And
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: what do you really want to fight about? Just tell us.
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: No notes. You know, and I think that would do her...
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: I mean, again, if she doesn't want to run again
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: for anything, that's fine. Then I have no criticism. But
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: if you want to, like, this is the big leagues, right?
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: You want to be president of the United States or
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: you want to be governor of the biggest state in
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: the country, got to step up, you know? So that
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: is my... That's my thought on that. Another Democrat out
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: there this week, perhaps inadvertently, was Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer,
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: who spent Trump's 100th day with Trump in Michigan at
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: an airbase that he agreed to keep open and expand,
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: which is something that Whitmer... had been pushing for since
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: Biden was president and had multiple calls and meetings with
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: Trump about. Trump thanked Whitmer at the event and then,
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: without warning, asked her to say a few words, which
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: she looked so psyched to do. So Whitmer awkwardly thanked
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: Trump without saying his name, shook his hand, walked away.
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: This was after an equally awkward embrace on the tarmac.
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: Half embrace. He went in for the embrace. She kind
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: of had her hand on the shoulder. It was very awkward.
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: And that came a few weeks after Whitmer's now famous
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: Oval Office meeting with Trump, which, unbeknownst to her, started
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: as a press event where Trump announced criminal investigations into
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: two former Trump administration officials, ultimately causing her to hide
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: her face behind a folder, which was a picture that
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: will live in infamy. Just exactly how she planned it all,
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: I'm sure.
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: It's on the whiteboard.
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: So I spoke to Governor Whitmer on Wednesday about all this.
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: You'll hear that conversation in a minute. But I wanted
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: to ask you, what do you think of all of this,
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: her last few weeks, the event this week?
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: So let's stipulate that a lot of people have declared
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: that her political career is functionally over because of the hug,
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: the folder photo, all of that, that if she had
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: any presidential ambitions, it was over. I think that's premature.
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: There's plenty of time to bounce back from what has
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: been an uncomfortable couple weeks here. Having said that, I
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: think that some of these things definitely raise a question
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: of political instincts. I still don't understand why She did
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: not walk out of the Oval Office. And the second
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: you walk out of the West Wing of the White House,
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: there are reporters arrayed there with microphones. And you could just,
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: you know, if you don't want to yell at the
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: president on live national television in his office, I can
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: buy that. Other people may think maybe some people do that.
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: If you don't want to do that, it's fine. But
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: you can't go out and not say something to the
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: press about what you just witnessed.
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: And she told me that what reporters haven't been reporting
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: is that she did leave. like after the picture and
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: after she, she started close to him and then she
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: sunk away. And then she was, then she did the,
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: then they did the folder and she, then she left
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: and she talked to her staff and she said, you know, I'm,
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: I told them like, we must get it out there
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: that I don't agree with it, which it still gets
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: to your point where you're like, she could, she could
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: have told the cameras.
• 51:22
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: It's an operation.
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: Like the way to think about it is it's both you,
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: you have a problem and you got to fix your
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: problem right away. And it may also be an opportunity
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: if you handle it right. Like that, I don't know
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: why that instinct wasn't there, but I think there's something
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: bigger than just what Whitmer– this is about bigger than Whitmer.
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: What I think we're seeing here is what I think
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: is the real divide in the Democratic Party now, which
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: is not left-right. It's those people who truly believe to
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: their core that we are in an extraordinary dangerous moment
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: in American history and want to respond as such. Those
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: are people like AOC and Bernie, Chris Murphy, Cory Booker,
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: who– sort of are trying to toss traditional ordinary politics
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: aside and respond in a new way that is commiserate
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: with the threat that Trump faces. Then there's another group
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: of people. There's no group of people who think Trump
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: is not bad. But the other group of people, which
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: I think Whitmer falls into this and Schumer falls into it,
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: is that Trump is bad and dangerous, but we are
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: not truly in a crisis that necessitates an extraordinary response
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: and that ordinary politics can still work. that it is
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: okay to believe that the traditional rules of how shutdowns
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: work out politically is the same way. And then in
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: Whitmer's case, you're still in a moment where the right
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: thing to the good politics is to bring the bacon
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: home for your state. Now, she is right that this
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: is an important thing, and she's been working on it
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: a long time. You do want to help your state.
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: And I am sympathetic to Gavin Newsom when he had
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: to kind of play nice to ensure that California didn't
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: lose out on aid after the wildfires. But if you
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: truly believe that Trump is something dangerous, you don't get
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: on stage with him. You don't vote for his budget.
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: You don't put yourself in a position where he can
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: hug you, right? And you're willing to take– like there
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: is– your state could pay a price for it. But
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: you're going to fight back on all the other terrible
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: things that Trump is doing to your state and you're
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: not just focusing on this one particular project, which comes
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: at the expense of all those other things.
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: Here's what's– wild about the Whitmer thing is the two
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: different factions you laid out. Like, I totally agree with that.
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: But when you listen to this interview, she basically picked both.
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: And that was wild to me. Like, I thought that
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: when I asked her, are we in a constitutional crisis?
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: You know, is this, is he really a threat? All
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: this kind of stuff that she would try to make
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: an argument that normal politics works and I'm not going
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: to get into that. And I'm thinking about my state
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: and all that kind of stuff, which is, Again, I
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: don't agree with that, but it is a cohesive argument.
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: It's very weird to me that she at one point
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: was like, yeah, yes, we're in a constitutional crisis. Yes,
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: people should be scared. I read her J.B. Pritzker's quote
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: from one of his speech where he called for mass
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: protests and resistance in the streets. And she said, I
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: agree with that. And I agree with what AOC and
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: Bernie are doing. And then she was like, but I'm
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: mad that pundits... you know, don't, they think they know
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: what's going on in the ground in Michigan and what
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: Michigan people care about. And it's like, you gotta, you
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: gotta pick something. You gotta pick a lane. And like, again,
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: I don't, I don't really, I didn't with her want
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: to focus on the folder or being at the event
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: or the hug or anything like that. Cause it's like,
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: you know, even being civil to Trump, a lot of
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: this is optics and I get it. I get the
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: odd position. And like, I totally understand if you are
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: a governor, you want to help your state and you
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: want to, you need to work with this guy and
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: talk with this guy about some stuff to help your state.
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: I get that. And all the people were like, you
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: don't understand. She needs to help jobs in Michigan and
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: people in Michigan love her for this. And that's great. Like, yeah, no,
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: I get that. That's fine. You can still do that
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: while also speaking out about the threat of Donald Trump,
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: which she used to do all the time back in
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: 2020 when she was dealing with him in COVID. She
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: was dealing with him over in the pandemic and criticizing
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: him pretty intensely. So something has changed. She's either gotten
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: some advice from people that I don't think is good advice.
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: Or not, but like, I don't, I just don't understand
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: why you can't really say it's a constitutional crisis, that
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: we're in a constitutional crisis. And then also say like,
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: but yeah, I just needed to talk to him and
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: hang out with him and not bring up all these issues.
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: I think, I have not listened to your interview yet.
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: I look forward to it. This is, so not speaking
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: specifically about Whitmer here, but everyone is saying what they
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: think people want to hear about it being a constitutional crisis.
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: The question is whether you truly believe it.
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: Yes, I agree.
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: Whether you're responding as if it is true. Or you're
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: saying it because to say the– there's no one saying
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: it's not bad. There's no Democrat arguing that or that
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: this is a passing thing. It's really in their actions, right?
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: We can truly understand how much they believe it, how
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: worried they are about the moment.
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: But also like if you don't really believe it, don't
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: say it because this goes to a problem of Democrats
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: and their credibility with voters, right? Which is– and we've
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: talked about this before with a number of Democrats where
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: we say democracy is on the line. Democracy is on
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: the line. Donald Trump is a threat to democracy. What
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: are we going to do? and then he wins and
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: everyone's like, okay, I was just, just kidding. We're going
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: to work with him. It's going to be normal. We're
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: going to figure things out. And that's obviously an exaggeration,
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: but that's, that's the gist. And I worry for anyone
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: who is saying what they think activists want to hear
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: or what they think people want to hear. And you
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: get a lot of, um, Whitmer did this, Kamala Harris
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: did this in her speech. People are like, and I
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: want to call out Chris Murphy and Cory Booker and
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: AOC and Bernie. Like they're praising the people who were
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: speaking out and acting like it's a constitutional crisis. It's like,
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: it's nice to praise them, but like, what do you
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: have to say about it? Like, are you going to
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: do something about it? Because if you do believe it's
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: a constitutional crisis, then like show us, you know? And
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: if you don't, then make an argument that it's not,
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: that's fine.
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: No one knows what's going to happen. Maybe it's also
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: very possible that Gretchen has no desire to run for president.
• 57:09
  Speaker 5: True.
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: She could have run in 2024. She might not.
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: Like after Biden dropped out, like that was an option
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: for her. So she may not even want to do it.
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: But for people who are thinking of running for president,
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: I just can't imagine that there's going to be a
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: lane for people who underreact to Trump.
• 57:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: And I'm saying like, and even if, one of the
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: reasons I ask her about some like Michigan specific actions
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: he's taken, it's like, even if you're not going to
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: run for president and your whole thing is I want
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: to stand up for the people in Michigan, like, you know,
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: he's investigating Michigan colleges. He's like taking visas away from
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: Michigan students. He's, he's like trying to freeze education funding
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: for Michigan. Like, If you're going to talk to him
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: about the airbase, which I agree you should, like maybe
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: bring up, hey man, why are you doing this to
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: my state? You know, like you got to do both. Okay,
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: we're going to take a quick break. And when we
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: come back, you can all hear what Whitmer herself had
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: to say about all of this. Pod Save America is
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  Speaker 1: That's T-R-Y-A-R-M-R-A dot com slash cricket. Governor Gretchen Whitmer, welcome
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: back to Pod Save America.
• 59:25
  Speaker 4: Good to be with you, John.
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: So you were... With Donald Trump yesterday in Michigan, when
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: he announced an expansion of the Selfridge Air National Guard Base,
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: I believe starting in 2028, you've been fighting to get
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: that done for a long time. It means a lot
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: of jobs. It's really good for the economy. You called
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: it a big bipartisan win, said you appreciated Trump's partnership.
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: What did it take to get that done with the president?
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: Did he need convincing? How did those discussions go?
• 59:57
  Speaker 4: Well, I'll just start with this. Selfridge is a really
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 4: important linchpin in Michigan's bases. We've got four. Selfridge is
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 4: the place where we have our fighter mission. The A-10s
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 4: have been scheduled to be retired. And so I have
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 4: spent every year since I've been governor trying to get
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 4: recapitalized a fighter mission. Through the four years, to be candid,
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 4: under the Biden administration, I was trying to get this done.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 4: We did get tankers, which is great, but it's not
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 4: a fighter mission. So As soon as I had the
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 4: opportunity for the first conversation at the National Governors Association dinner,
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 4: I took the chance to say, this is important. And
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 4: ever since then, I've had a number of meetings and
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 4: phone calls just to try to get this over the
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 4: finish line. And I'm grateful that they were interested. I
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 4: know they care about Michigan. I think defense is a
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 4: place where they see a need and it took a
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 4: lot of work to get there, but it's the right
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 4: thing for Michigan. I There's no question that recapitalizing this,
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 4: it's got $ 850 million impact on the state of Michigan. 30,000
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 4: jobs are connected to Selfridge. And so this is a BFD.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 4: And I'm glad that we got over the finish line.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 4: It doesn't mean I've abandoned any of my values. It
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 4: doesn't mean that I'm not going to stand my ground
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 4: and fight where we have to. But this is one
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 4: of those moments where as a public servant, You're reminded
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 4: your job is to put service above self, and that's
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 4: what it was all about.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: So you do this event with the president. Then he
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: does a political event in Michigan, which you didn't attend,
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: where he attacks judges for, quote, trying to take away
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: the power of our president. Then he does an interview
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: after with ABC where he says he could facilitate the
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: release of Kilmer Obrego Garcia, as the Supreme Court has
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: ordered in a unanimous decision, but that his lawyers don't
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: want to. Is the president not in open defiance of
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: the Supreme Court at this point?
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, it's unconscionable. So many of the actions
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 4: that they've taken in 100 days, the amount of damage
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 4: that has been done. You know, I continue to stay
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 4: grounded in talking to Michiganders, and I can tell you
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 4: that the tariffs are taking a toll. Job losses, concerns about,
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 4: you know, being able to afford an F-150. You know,
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 4: when I was at the White House in that folder
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 4: in that infamous picture, I Inside that were real stories
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 4: from Michiganders about how hard the tariffs have already been
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 4: on their families, on their businesses, small businesses alike. And
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 4: that's who I'm fighting for. And so to see that,
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 4: to hear that, you could see why there's no way
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 4: on earth I was doing anything beyond that press conference yesterday.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 4: Because I think so much of what they're doing is
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 4: damaging not just here and now, but They're going to
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 4: have long-term consequences in this country. And that's precisely why
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 4: I think it's important that we are showing up, we
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 4: are locking arms, and we are the party that is
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 4: fighting for the average hard-working person in this country.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: I do want to get to the tariffs, but before
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: we do, do you think we're in a constitutional crisis?
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: If the Supreme Court has told the president to do something,
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: he has decided not to do it. I think this
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: is the second time he's done this. He's also not
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: enforcing the TikTok ban, just sort of ignoring that or
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: ignoring the court's order on that. Are we in a
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: constitutional crisis? And what's the responsibility of other leaders in
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: the country.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: If we are?
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: We are.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 4: And I think that no one is above the law.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 4: The thought that we've got an administration that is just
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 4: blatantly violating court orders should, I think, scare everybody. This
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 4: is a very serious moment. You know, at the end
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 4: of the day, I hope that we finally see some
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 4: backbone out of some of the Republicans in Congress, you know,
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 4: to stand up to the courts to enforce their orders.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 4: I mean, there are a lot of people that aren't
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 4: doing their jobs to protect the foundations of this country.
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 4: And many of us are fighting the fights that we can,
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 4: but ultimately the courts have got to be able to
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 4: have the last word. And And this undermines, I think,
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 4: the foundations of our country on every level when this happens.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: The president went on to say in that interview that
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: he's justified in ordering criminal investigations into people he thinks
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: are dishonest. You were obviously unwittingly brought into the Oval
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: for the Press event where Trump ordered an investigation into
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: one of his first-term administration officials because he said the
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: 2020 election wasn't fraudulent. State election officials responded to that
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: saying they are outraged and alarmed. This was a cybersecurity
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: election official. What was your reaction when you saw him
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: do that and you were in the Oval?
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 4: Well, as Lovett said, there are no corners in the
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 4: Oval Office, right? I was brought in for what I
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 4: thought was going to be a one-on-one meeting. It became
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 4: very clear as soon as I walked in the room
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 4: that that was not the case. I grabbed one of
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 4: his staff people. I said, what is happening here? And
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 4: he said, he's just going to sign an executive order
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 4: and then you're going to have your meeting. And then
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 4: all of that transpired. And I gravitated from the front
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 4: of the room to the back of the room. And
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 4: that's when that picture was taken. But I also left
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 4: the room. No one reported that. I left the room
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 4: to go talk to my staff person and said, we
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 4: got to get word out because the stuff that's going
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 4: on in there, I want to be, I cannot be
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 4: associated with that. I do not endorse that. I'm not
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 4: here for that. But I had to stay and have
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 4: my meeting after that was done. So You know, it
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 4: is not easy to navigate these times. But one of
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 4: the things that I've learned is I've got to put
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 4: the people in Michigan first over my self-interest, over maybe
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 4: what people assume are going to be my political interests.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 4: The people in Michigan come first. I took an oath
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 4: to them. When I was in the Senate, you know,
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 4: we were in the minority. I was the Senate minority leader.
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 4: And we had Republican control of both chambers of the
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 4: legislature and in the governor's office. We got our teeth
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 4: kicked in every day. We, of course, I had colleagues who,
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 4: when they finally wanted to do Medicaid expansion, a Republican
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 4: governor wanted to expand Medicaid under the Affordable Care Act
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 4: to Michiganders. Some of my Democratic colleagues said, hell no,
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 4: let's not do it. Let's make him beg for it.
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 4: Let's deliver him a loss and then they'll have to
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 4: come back. And I didn't want to take that risk
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 4: because I knew hundreds of thousands of Michiganders might get
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 4: their health care from this. And so I went to
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 4: work to bring my Democratic colleagues along. It wasn't easy.
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 4: But at the end of the day, that's the job.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 4: That is the job that I have. And if we
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 4: Democrats want to be successful in future elections, we can't
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 4: forget that. We've got to give each other the grace
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 4: to fight on the battlefield and lock arms because these
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 4: are high-stakes moments in this country as we think about
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 4: all the stuff that's just happened in merely 100 days.
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: Trump is currently investigating Michigan colleges and universities for their
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: diversity policies. He's already tried to kick dozens of Michigan
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: foreign students out of the country. He's threatening to unlawfully
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: freeze federal funding for Michigan public schools, as he's already
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: doing in Maine, because Governor Mills spoke up in a meeting.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: Have you asked the president to stop targeting people and
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: institutions in your state?
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 4: You know, I have talked to the president about tariffs,
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 4: which obviously we don't agree on. I have talked to
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 4: the president about Asian carp that pose a real threat
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 4: to the Great Lakes. I have talked to the president
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 4: about ice storm victims in northern Michigan, who I'm hoping
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 4: we can get some help from FEMA to support. I
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 4: have not had that direct conversation on this subject yet,
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 4: but I'm not afraid to do that.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: I guess where I am on this is, like, I
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: totally understand the need to work with even this president,
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: because whether we like it or not, he has a
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: lot of power to help or hurt people that, in
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: your case, that you represent. But he's also abusing that
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: power right now to hurt people that you represent. And
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: so I wonder if you, you know, is it, isn't
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: it worth speaking up for the rights and the freedoms
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: of those people when you're at an event with them
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: or when you're in a meeting with them?
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Whenever I get the opportunity, I use every minute
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 4: of that to, to cover a lot of different issues.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 4: So this is, I think a very important one that
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 4: you're raising. There's no question. And I will continue whenever
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 4: I have opportunities to make sure that I'm covering as
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 4: much as I can. No question.
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: On tariffs, the president offered some relief to automakers last night.
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: He announced, though, the headline in the Detroit Free Press
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: is Trump scales back tariffs on automakers, but analysts still
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: expect car prices to rise. Do you agree with that?
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: And did you get a chance to raise tariffs with
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: him on Tuesday? And what have those conversations been like
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: about tariffs with him?
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 4: I did not get much of a chance to talk
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 4: about it on Tuesday, but I did say that the
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 4: big three and the auto industry is hurting in Michigan
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 4: because of the uncertainty around tariffs. Certainly, newest policy might
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 4: be somewhat helpful on paper, but let's be clear, the
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 4: uncertainty that has been created by variety of policies without
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 4: a stated goal and an obvious solution here is what
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 4: is creating paralysis, what is creating animosity with our Our
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 4: northern neighbors, Canada, who is intertwined with the Michigan economy,
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 4: all across the country, that's true, but especially in Michigan
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 4: and Mexico, treating our allies like adversaries. I mean, there's
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 4: a big cost to all of this, and it is
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 4: going to be borne by the American consumer. It is
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 4: going to be borne by the person who gets laid
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 4: off because their company doesn't make the investment that they
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 4: had planned to. It's going to be borne by small businesses.
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 4: They can't stock up storerooms. like some businesses have been
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 4: able to in preparation for all these ups and downs.
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 4: This chaos with this tariff policy has undermined the American
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 4: economy and has taken money out of people's pockets, and
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 4: that's the worst part of it. So a couple of
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 4: tweaks every few days doesn't fix the problem. It actually
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 4: perpetuates the pain.
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: In your conversations with him, do you get the sense
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: that he's persuadable on this issue?
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 4: No. I'm sorry to say that. I mean, I, you know,
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 4: I'll just be blunt. I can tell you that I
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 4: know that the auto companies are talking with the White House.
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 4: You know, I'm talking with them too. I know that
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 4: they are talking with Secretary Lutnick and Commerce. And obviously
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 4: they've had some impact and that they've reevaluated some things.
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 4: But I do believe that there is a core belief
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 4: that messing with tariff policy is going to be good
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 4: for America, but it's not based on any, I think,
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 4: economic prowess or strategy. And I think that's the biggest
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 4: concern is that if there was a goal, if there
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 4: was a new rule that was going to last, American
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 4: business might be able to figure a way to work
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 4: with it, but the chaos is the biggest problem at
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 4: the moment.
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: I remember when the fires hit Los Angeles. I interviewed
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 1: Governor Newsom shortly after, and, you know, he was dealing
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 1: with somewhat similar to what you were dealing with with Selfridge,
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: which is, you know, he was trying not to criticize
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: Trump too much because he, you know, we needed to
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: get federal funding for disaster relief for California. And I
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: asked him in the interview, I said, are you scared
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: that if you criticize him too much or piss him off,
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: then he's going to yank federal funding? and not give
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: us the disaster relief aid that we need. Do you
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: worry in the next couple years that if you criticize
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump too much that he might change his mind
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: on Selfridge?
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 4: No, I mean, I don't. They've made a commitment. This is,
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 4: you know, there are Republicans and Democrats that have been
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 4: working hard to get this done. They got it done.
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 4: He got great, you know, headlines here in Michigan. I mean,
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 4: people are thrilled with this. So, No. And, you know,
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 4: my job is to fight for Michiganders. And that means,
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 4: you know, John, it means making tough decisions in a
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 4: pandemic that ultimately people threaten to kill me. I'm still
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 4: going to put Michiganders first. It means showing up at
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 4: the Oval Office and maybe having people, you know, pundits
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 4: take shots at me for being there. But that's putting
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 4: the people of Michigan first. I can tell you right
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 4: now that the people in Macomb County are are often
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 4: the ones that get polled whenever there's a presidential election.
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 4: They're the bellwether in a bellwether state. They don't care
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 4: whether or not I held a folder in a picture.
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 4: They don't care. They care if they're gonna have a job.
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 4: They care that their governor's fighting for them. And I
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 4: think that's the really interesting difference here is the media
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 4: in Michigan has been, it's all been positive. The reactions,
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 4: not the media reactions, but the coverage, the people, the
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 4: reaction of the real people on the ground. And it's
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 4: one of the things that real frustrate me about sometimes
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 4: the national pundits is they tell Michiganders what they're thinking
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 4: without actually talking to Michiganders. And I think that's something
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 4: that we have to educate people on because, man, if
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 4: you're ever going to be able to fight for and
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 4: earn the respect of people on the ground, you got
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 4: to be there with them. And that's what it's all about.
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: Your neighboring governor, J.B. Pritzker, Illinois, gave a speech this
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: week where he called for mass protests, mobilization, and disruption.
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 1: He said, quote, these Republicans cannot know a moment of peace.
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: They have to understand that we will fight their cruelty
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: with every megaphone and microphone that we have. Do you
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: agree with all that?
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 4: I do. I mean, I think I'm glad I told JB,
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 4: I don't know, a couple months ago, I'm glad he's
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 4: out there. I'm glad he's fighting. You know what? I'm
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 4: really glad that AOC and Bernie are out there fighting.
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 4: I think it's going to be important. We got to
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 4: be Avengers style, you know, every one of our voices matters.
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 4: We have to work together. And ultimately, we're going to
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 4: have to bring all these different groups of people that
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 4: we're talking to that we represent together as well. So
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 4: I don't fault anyone outside of Michigan for not understanding
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 4: what's going on on the ground. I just take umbrage
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 4: with anyone who assumes they know what's going on on
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 4: the ground without actually asking, because the real story is
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 4: what's going on in real people's lives.
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and obviously people in Michigan, just like elsewhere in America,
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: are very concerned about, more than anything else, cost of
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 1: living issues and the effects of this trade war. Do
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 1: you think people in Michigan are also afraid of this
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: president and wonder if he poses a threat to democracy,
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: if we're going to have other elections.
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I do think that that's a concern for a
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 4: lot of people. If you're not worried about putting food
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 4: on the table, yes. But if you're worried about putting
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 4: food on the table or paying your electric bill, it's
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 4: hard to think about anything else. And that's one of
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 4: the things that as I campaigned for Kamala Harris and
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 4: Joe Biden before and Barack Obama before, I can tell
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 4: you that, and Hillary Clinton, I can't skip Hillary Clinton,
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 4: of course. We know that the personal economy is always
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 4: going to be front and center for people. And that's
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 4: why we got to stay focused on how are Democrats
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 4: making people's lives better. That's what I've done in Michigan.
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 4: And I think that's why I've been able to carry
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 4: this really swing state by double digits in two elections.
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 4: We can't lose sight of that.
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: Last question. In your role as governor, are there other
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 1: issues where you are looking to make progress by working
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: with President Trump? And are there other fights you can
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: see yourself having with the administration?
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 4: Oh, yeah. We're going to fight like hell to protect people.
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 4: You know, the Medicaid cuts could be devastating if they
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 4: go through. And we are working really hard. We've got
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 4: a bipartisan group of congresspeople that we are putting pressure on.
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 4: 40% of the Michigan budget is federal. Rural hospitals will
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 4: close if those Medicaid cuts go through to pay for
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 4: that tax break that no one's calling for. So yeah,
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 4: we're going to fight on all these battlegrounds. I'll also
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 4: say I'm going to continue to try to get help
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 4: to protect the Great Lakes from Asian carp. I am
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 4: going to try to get that FEMA declaration for people
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 4: in northern Michigan who were devastated by the ice storm
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 4: last month, some of whom still don't have power a
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 4: month later. So I've got big things that I still
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 4: want to try to get done with the feds, but
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 4: we're going to fight to protect Michiganders, fight to protect
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 4: fundamental rights and the rule of law, too.
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 1: Governor Whitmer, thank you so much, as always, for giving
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: us your time and coming on Pod Save America.
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 4: Thanks, John. Good to be with you.
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 1: One last moment from this week that we wanted to cover.
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 1: On Wednesday night, News Nation held a virtual town hall
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: with Trump. who called in, moderated by Chris Cuomo, Bill O'Reilly,
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: and Stephen A. Smith, featuring Steve Bannon, James Carville, RFK Jr.
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 1: Talk about a dream blunt rotation. We learned about this
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: like hours before it happened. I thought it was a
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: prank when I first saw it. I was like, this
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: is not a cast of people who are actually going
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 1: to be together.
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 2: You sent me a message that said, here comes our
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 2: A block for the show on Thursday. And I clicked
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 2: on it hours later. So I clicked on it being
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 2: taken directly into the town hall. I knew there was
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 2: a News Nation town hall. You must have been like,
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 2: what is going on? And when I turned on, there
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 2: was just Stephen A. Smith and Bill O'Reilly. I mean,
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 2: and Trump also, he called in, which is bananas.
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 1: Bananas. Bananas. So Stephen A. asked him about his fight
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: with Harvard, and here's what happened.
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 8: Because when people think about Harvard, what they're basically talking
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 8: about is they're asking, what do you say to those
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 8: who view your actions as an attack on academic freedom
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 8: rather than a defense of fairness? What do you say
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 8: to that?
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 5: Well, I say this.
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 7: We had riots in Harlem, and frankly, if you look
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 7: at what's gone on, and people from Harlem went up
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 7: and they protested, Stephen, and they protested very strongly against Harvard.
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 7: They happened to be on my side. You know, I
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 7: got a very high black vote. You know that. Very,
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 7: very high black vote. It was a very great compliment
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 7: to me. I did criminal justice reform. They agree with
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 7: what I'm doing with respect to Harvard.
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: Lots to unpack there, Dan. Lots to unpack. First of all,
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: did he does he start things off by confusing Columbia
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: and Harvard because he was saying there's there's the riots
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 1: in Harlem?
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems that way.
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 1: So that's number one, right? I think. Unless he thought
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 1: he said Harlem instead of Harvard, but I think he
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: got Harvard.
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 2: He got to Harvard. Also, in all of the times
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 2: that Trump has talked about the protests at Columbia University,
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 2: he has never referred to it as the riots in
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 2: Harlem until a black person asked him about it.
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 4: Yep.
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 7: Yep.
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 1: And then- Why did he mention the black vote? It
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 1: is true. Why did he mention the black vote out
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 1: of nowhere to Stephen A. Smith, the black person who
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 1: asked him?
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 2: It's truly Pavlovian racism. He just sees a black person
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 2: ask a question and he cannot fathom in his lizard
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 2: brain that a black person can ask him about a
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 2: question that is not specific and inherently and entirely about
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 2: something involving the black community. It's why he talked about
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 2: criminal justice reform. I mean, it's bananas. He uses the
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 2: term they in there like five times.
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. The cherry on the sundae is
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: the very end where he said, they like what I'm
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 1: doing at Harvard. The black people? The black people of
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: America like that I'm investigating Harvard over anti-Semitism.
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 2: Which was not your question, Stephen, but you are black,
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 2: so I thought you might be curious to know that.
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: But by the way, Stephen, you may be asking me
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 1: a difficult question that's a little challenging, but I want
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: you to know that other black people, they voted for me.
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 1: That's what I got from it. I don't know how
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 1: else to take it.
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 2: Things are going great.
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 1: Anyway, that's our president. That's our president. America saw four
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 1: years later and they were like, let's give us four more.
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 1: Let's do four more. Maybe eight. Who knows?
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: Two quick things before we go. You've got to listen
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 1: to Shadow Kingdom. All the episodes are out now. You
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 1: can binge it from start to finish. It's Crooked's newest podcast.
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: It's called Shadow Kingdom, God's Banker. Over a million listeners
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 1: around the world have already listened. The story's got it all.
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 1: Money laundering, secret societies, the Vatican playing spy games. It
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 1: explains how far-right movements started finding fertile ground in Europe.
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: Perfectly to listen to as we head into our conclave.
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 1: You can binge all episodes of Shadow Kingdom wherever you
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 1: get your podcasts or on Apple Podcasts Also, new episode
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 1: of Inside 2025 just dropped where, oh, Dan, you, you
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 1: and Alyssa answered listener questions about Trump's first 100 days.
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 1: What do you and Alyssa talk about?
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 2: You know, it's so funny. I saw this in the
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 2: housekeeping and I recorded this podcast after a 35-hour trip
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 2: home from the East Coast that involves some canceled flights,
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 2: a radar down, and spending the night at the Newark
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 2: Airport Hotel. And I honestly don't remember what we talked about.
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 2: I think we talked about, I think we talked.
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 1: This is a can't, this is a can't miss.
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 2: No, no. In all seriousness, I say that only because
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 2: it was quite punchy. I was really, uh, you should
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 2: listen to that. I was untethered, but we did, we
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 2: talked a lot about white house correspondence dinner, how that works.
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 2: I've told some stories of our times, the white house correspondence,
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 2: or we talked about a hundred days, how the press
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 2: views that, uh, but you don't remember. Do you remember
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 2: where Obama went on his hundredth day?
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 7: No.
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 1: Didn't I do the new foundation speech?
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 2: No, that was the 100th day.
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 1: What was it?
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 2: We thought we went to Elkhart. We went somewhere else.
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 2: We did it at National Televised Press Conference on the
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 2: 100th day in prime time back when TV mattered.
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 6: It was cute.
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 2: And we told a bunch of stories. We got great questions.
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 2: It's a ton of fun. Alyssa is, as always, a
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 2: laugh riot on this thing.
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 1: If you want to get access to this exclusive series,
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 1: which you should, our Discord community and ad-free episodes of
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 1: shows like Pod Save America and Love It or Leave It,
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 1: Head to crooked.com slash friends to subscribe. That's our show
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 1: for today. Dan's going to be back in the feed
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: with a new show on Sunday. Dan, you talked to
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 1: Chuck Todd, former moderator of Meet the Press. What did
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 1: you guys talk about? How's Chuck?
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 2: Chuck is great. I wanted to talk to Chuck because
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 2: politics and media are intertwined. And if you want to
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 2: understand where politics is going, you have to understand media.
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 2: Chuck has been at all levels of media, from the
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 2: editor of a political tip sheet called The Hopline to
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 2: a White House correspondent to Meet the Press. And now
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 2: he is, like us, an independent journalist podcaster. And he
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 2: had a lot to say about politics, about the state
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 2: of the media today, how people are covering Trump, where
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 2: the White House press corps is falling down on the
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 2: job of standing up for their colleagues in the AP,
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 2: and some tips on how someone can interview Trump, something
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 2: I hope we never have to know.
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know. He didn't know Terry Moran.
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 1: That's how he got in there.
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 2: Maybe we'll host a Crooked Media Talatown Hall and get
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 2: him to call in.
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 1: That's all we need. All right, that's our show. Everyone
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 1: have a good weekend and listen to Dan and Chuck
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: Todd on Sunday and we'll be back with a new
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 1: episode in your feeds on Tuesday. Have a good weekend, everyone.
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 6: Bye, everyone.
• 1:23:46
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  Speaker 1: friends and family. Pods of America is a Crooked Media production.
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: Our producers are David Toledo and Saul Rubin. Our associate
• 1:24:19
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• 1:24:25
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