Latest / Easy Double podcast / Jake Smith: The Champions Mentality - Olympic Standards, Uganda/NN, RED-S and the mental and physical rebuild

Transcript

Jake Smith: The Champions Mentality - Olympic Standards, Uganda/NN, RED-S and the mental and physical rebuild · Easy Double podcast

• 0:23
  The. Today's guest is one of
• 0:27
  Britain's most exciting distance running talents, boast an
• 0:30
  incredible personal best from 1500 meters all the way to the
• 0:33
  marathon. Perhaps his stand out
• 0:35
  achievement is an incredible 6031 half marathon, a time that
• 0:40
  when he ran it placed him third on the UK all time list behind
• 0:43
  only Mo Farah and Callum Hawkins.
• 0:46
  He's part of the prestigious NM running team, which also
• 0:49
  includes athletes like Elliot Kipchogi, Joshua Chapter Guy and
• 0:53
  Mark Scott. His journey is as inspiring as
• 0:56
  it is impressive, not only for his performances on the roads
• 0:59
  and on the track, but for the resiliency shown in overcoming
• 1:03
  red ass or relative energy deficiency in sport, a condition
• 1:07
  that challenged both his health and his career.
• 1:10
  It's a privilege to have him on the show today.
• 1:12
  Jake Smith, welcome to the Easy Double podcast.
• 1:15
  Thank you for inviting me and I'm looking forward to chatting
• 1:17
  about everything. No, it's a pleasure.
• 1:19
  I'm I'm very grateful that you that you were keen to get
• 1:23
  involved. Oh yeah, I listened because I
• 1:25
  listened to you guys because you, you made a really nice, you
• 1:28
  said something really nice about me after Berlin 10K and I just
• 1:32
  thought, yeah, I might as well get involved and see, see what
• 1:36
  it's all like. Yeah, good.
• 1:38
  But when I was doing some of the research I've seen that you seem
• 1:41
  to like the limelight a little bit in the in the pacing jobs
• 1:44
  and stuff you love getting on TV.
• 1:46
  So it works both ways. I know I do like a good pacing
• 1:51
  job. Haven't done one for a while now
• 1:52
  because I'm actually becoming a racer, whereas before I was
• 1:55
  becoming more of a pacer. So it's, it's quite nice to
• 1:58
  know, yeah, I'm becoming more of a racer, really.
• 2:02
  Yeah, mate, it's exciting. You're you're on the journey on
• 2:05
  the comeback. So we'll definitely get into
• 2:07
  that. Now I'm not sure if you've had
• 2:09
  any of the previous interviews, but it's been a little bit of a
• 2:13
  tradition where we start with some quick fire questions to
• 2:16
  kind of break the ice a little and for transparency for the
• 2:20
  listeners. I haven't briefed Jake with what
• 2:23
  these are going to be. So RFC in your e-mail address,
• 2:29
  That's Reading Football Club. Of course, of course.
• 2:33
  So are we going to get 3 points this weekend?
• 2:36
  No, I've watched them play on Sky on against Huddersfield and
• 2:41
  my major sports Cardiff. I went to watch Cardiff the
• 2:44
  other day and he said they are quite a lot worse than Cardiff
• 2:48
  and both in the same league. They just they have no attacking
• 2:50
  threat. They only play long balls for a
• 2:52
  5 foot 9 striker. We've not nothing.
• 2:57
  It's not looking good. Not looking good at all.
• 3:00
  I couldn't believe when I looked at the table that they're
• 3:03
  actually how long they been in League One for.
• 3:05
  I thought they're still championship.
• 3:07
  No, it's just been like 3 years now.
• 3:09
  We it's good because we've now got a new, completely new owner
• 3:12
  basically, whereas last year we almost folded.
• 3:15
  It was like it was getting quite, very, very close to
• 3:18
  following because our owner, I don't know why they brought him
• 3:21
  in, but they basically brought in someone who took a club into
• 3:24
  the legislation. So Renning being ready thought,
• 3:29
  yeah, he's perfect. But now we've actually sorted
• 3:32
  out that we actually have money. We still haven't bought anyone.
• 3:35
  We've sold our best players. So it's going to be our team is
• 3:39
  so young. Like I think the other day we
• 3:41
  had like three out of four centre backs were under, they
• 3:44
  just 17 or something or 1718. And in League One it is good to
• 3:50
  have some youngsters, but some of those, they're quite nasty
• 3:54
  buggers, some of the attackers in the other team.
• 3:56
  So yeah, it's it's going to be a long season, I think.
• 3:59
  Yeah, you need a few of those old Hard Knocks.
• 4:03
  Scared to get involved? Exactly.
• 4:05
  That's what we need. But even if it's just one or
• 4:06
  two, because we let go of our best centre back, so the the two
• 4:10
  centre backs who played every single game have both gone and
• 4:14
  one of them was our cap. Like it's just, yeah, the whole
• 4:17
  team is, they haven't played together or anything.
• 4:19
  We have so many on loan players and you know, unknown players
• 4:23
  are great, but then they leave at the end of the season you
• 4:25
  have to completely restart. So yeah, I just follow them
• 4:29
  because my dad follows them so. That's there following the
• 4:32
  footsteps. That's the rule of thumb, isn't
• 4:34
  it? You can't choose.
• 4:36
  Oh no, I know exactly. They buy you a shirt and you're
• 4:38
  stuck with it for life. Have you got any celebrity and
• 4:42
  football fans like do you see Morecambe?
• 4:45
  They almost, well they did go under and people call them for
• 4:47
  like Tyson Fury to buy them out. Really.
• 4:50
  Yeah, No, you know, like it got quite big a couple of weeks ago
• 4:55
  because Snoop Dogg bought Swansea and I'm not like, I
• 4:58
  don't live too far from Swansea. So I have a few mates with 1T
• 5:01
  fans. They were happy, buzzing.
• 5:05
  Now it's there was talk of someone but it's always, it's
• 5:08
  always, you know, the media presence.
• 5:10
  There's always someone. They say they just bring out a
• 5:12
  random name and they might not even have a clue what's going
• 5:15
  on. But now there was nothing really
• 5:19
  like that. Yeah, OK, well, for the
• 5:21
  listeners, I guess the Australian ones, they probably
• 5:24
  tune into maybe some of the Premier League sides, but keep
• 5:28
  an eye on red and as the season progresses, this was meant to be
• 5:33
  quick by a look at this. What's your coffee order?
• 5:37
  Don't drink coffee. Don't drink coffee.
• 5:38
  There you go. Favorite channel on YouTube?
• 5:42
  Perhaps running related? I like run to Japan.
• 5:49
  Run to Japan at the minute. Take paragraph.
• 5:51
  He's very good. We're a big fan of him as well,
• 5:55
  isn't he? Yeah, he's done for himself.
• 5:58
  He's done very well for himself. Splitties or half tights?
• 6:04
  Depends on the race. Depends on the weather or.
• 6:07
  No, yeah, and race I'll go. Anything long like a marathon,
• 6:12
  I'll go. Split and 5K5K I'll go half
• 6:16
  tights and then it depends on the winter.
• 6:18
  Summer in the UK? Really.
• 6:19
  You want that arrow stuff for the shorter distances.
• 6:23
  Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
• 6:25
  And favorite current GB athletes?
• 6:28
  Oh, NS Fitzgerald. Yeah, so do you, Co chair?
• 6:32
  No, I'm with Gavin and Joe Paley, so they coach her and
• 6:38
  like I've been like she lives. So like for example, I'm going
• 6:41
  back home tonight and doing a session with her tomorrow.
• 6:44
  I go for a long run with her on Sundays and because she lives
• 6:48
  like like a 10 minute run towards from my parents house.
• 6:52
  So we just met through there. So we've been, we've known, I've
• 6:56
  known her ever since she started properly running.
• 6:59
  And yeah, it's, it's awesome. She's a she's an animal.
• 7:03
  And when it comes to training, she's an absolute like Dean.
• 7:07
  It's it's crazy, but Gavin and Joe have done an exceptional job
• 7:10
  with her. Yeah, because I've seen you've
• 7:12
  been kind of like been her biggest supporter.
• 7:14
  So I was wondering where you're coaching her.
• 7:15
  But that makes sense. She's kind of in your group.
• 7:18
  Yeah, it's because I was, I was in Nike beforehand and I, I used
• 7:22
  to get her some like Nike shoes and stuff.
• 7:24
  So now she's getting much better.
• 7:26
  I, I need to make sure I'm still in the loop.
• 7:29
  So when she's like Olympic champion and I get something,
• 7:34
  Nah, she's good. She's good.
• 7:36
  My parents, yeah, my parents are big fans as well.
• 7:39
  And because we have the same coach, we see each other a lot.
• 7:42
  So it's it's good. So she's got the standard,
• 7:45
  hasn't she? Is she going to Tokyo?
• 7:47
  It's so she came third at the trials and then she went and
• 7:50
  blitzed the under 20s Europeans. I think she should because
• 7:55
  there's only two, there's only four girls with the standard.
• 7:59
  But I think Megan Keith is doing the 10K.
• 8:01
  So realistically she should. She went to trials, came third.
• 8:04
  It depends on India where who ran 15 O one last week and if
• 8:10
  she can get under 1450, it does make the whole selection a
• 8:13
  little bit tougher because it's between NS and Melissa Courtney
• 8:16
  Bryant. So it's just waiting on India
• 8:19
  where really. Yeah, OK.
• 8:20
  See this? That's one of the like exciting
• 8:23
  things we've been following because one of the the other Co
• 8:27
  host is Australian and then we've been following the Usas as
• 8:30
  well. Just how all the different
• 8:32
  selection processes work differently.
• 8:35
  It's crazy. I like the American system.
• 8:37
  I really like it's like top three across the line.
• 8:40
  You're going I really, really. And whereas in like British
• 8:44
  athletics, it's like they can still take 3, but it's always 2
• 8:47
  and then one is decided. But I don't really understand
• 8:51
  why like what that's forward. Like I, I, I really respect when
• 8:55
  they say just top three like like they do in America, because
• 8:58
  even if they don't have the time, they, they're allowed to
• 9:00
  go chase it. And, and at the end of the day,
• 9:02
  it's who is the best racer at the Champs should be picked.
• 9:06
  So I hope British athletics sort of changed their, the way they
• 9:10
  choose athletes because what, even when you get a bronze and a
• 9:14
  British champs, it should be amazing.
• 9:16
  But you're standing there and if you're, if you get bronze,
• 9:18
  you're actually not 100% going. And it's a bit of a like, it's
• 9:22
  not very nice as well. So it's I hope they change the
• 9:24
  the way they pick athletes. Yeah, the selectors are a bit
• 9:27
  like bouncers. They lift the power surge.
• 9:32
  I know, I know, it's not good. It's really good.
• 9:35
  But hey, we need to keep the selectors on side down the line
• 9:39
  for. You.
• 9:39
  I can't. I can't get into any trouble
• 9:41
  otherwise I ain't getting into a team.
• 9:46
  So before we get into like your training and your back, your
• 9:49
  results and stuff, I guess I wanted to set the scene a little
• 9:52
  for the listeners to seeing that you were born in Bermuda and
• 9:56
  spent your early childhood in Hong Kong.
• 9:58
  Yes, yeah. So my parents both were, I met
• 10:02
  in Bermuda, I was born in Bermuda and then we moved to
• 10:04
  Hong Kong when I was literally just before I was 2 years old, I
• 10:08
  moved to Hong Kong because both my parents were accountants.
• 10:11
  They both got jobs out there. My both my sisters were born out
• 10:15
  there. I lived there till I was 16, I
• 10:18
  think it was, and then came back to the UK because my parents,
• 10:22
  you know, their parents are getting to an age where they
• 10:25
  sort of need to support them. And yeah, I just, I played all
• 10:29
  the sports in Hong Kong, went to an International School.
• 10:32
  But honestly, Hong Kong for growing up is like it's such a
• 10:35
  good place to grow up for, for like kids and stuff like there's
• 10:38
  such good transport links. There's you can meet your
• 10:41
  friends within 1020 minutes. You don't, you don't need to
• 10:45
  drive almost. So it was, it was really, really
• 10:48
  good place to live. But it was hot.
• 10:50
  It was very hot. There was a lot of pollution.
• 10:53
  And then when we came to the UK, I'll get more into it.
• 10:56
  I saw the sides of the boys playing rugby and I was like I
• 10:59
  said, I'm never playing rugby again because I was playing
• 11:02
  against a lot of, let's just say Asian kids.
• 11:05
  Asian rugby players aren't as big as the English and Welsh at
• 11:09
  the age of 16. So, but then I focused more on
• 11:14
  running when I came to the UK and yeah, just ran ever since.
• 11:18
  Do you think that from like a human perspective, growing up
• 11:21
  out there gave you like something different compared to
• 11:24
  like British kids who like, I've only known that.
• 11:27
  Yeah, it's, I think it's like I sometimes go to, you know, you
• 11:31
  see all these like these kids and stuff and it's, it's
• 11:34
  brilliant living in England. But I think it gave me a sort of
• 11:38
  different view of everything because for example, everyone in
• 11:41
  England, most of the time they just travel around Europe
• 11:43
  because it's like, you know, some it's very easy to get
• 11:45
  around. Whereas all I did was travel
• 11:47
  around Asia. And you see, there's, I don't be
• 11:50
  horrible. There's a lot more poverty.
• 11:51
  There's a lot more things going on around that.
• 11:54
  And it just gives you a completely different sense of
• 11:57
  view. And then when I came to Europe
• 11:58
  and I heard everyone hadn't hardly any more friends have
• 12:01
  actually been to Asia because it is a long flight.
• 12:04
  I was like, like world, like they look at the world so much
• 12:08
  differently to how I did almost. But I kind of liked that because
• 12:13
  yeah, it's just different. And then you come see UK and you
• 12:15
  have completely different experiences and then you gain
• 12:17
  their experiences. So I feel like I have a lot of
• 12:22
  things to talk about. I've visited a lot of places and
• 12:26
  I wouldn't change. I really, really wouldn't change
• 12:29
  where I lived when I was young. Would you ever go back out there
• 12:32
  as an adult now? So I went back there last year
• 12:36
  and I actually went to my old school where my teacher like my
• 12:39
  PE teacher and stuff, they got in contact and wanted me to do a
• 12:42
  talk in front of like the year twelves.
• 12:44
  And it's so weird because you know, like the whole red S
• 12:47
  thing. They wanted me to like explain
• 12:49
  it and everything. You know, GPS in the UK, they a
• 12:51
  lot of them just have no idea what it actually is.
• 12:54
  Whereas this random school in Hong Kong, part of the syllabus,
• 12:58
  part of GCSE, there's a syllabus on Red S.
• 13:00
  So it's a whole topic on the subject.
• 13:02
  And I came over and I lost my head when I told my parents I
• 13:05
  was like, and the and people Walvin who I spoke to about
• 13:08
  project Red S, I'll say, so I go to AGP in the UK.
• 13:11
  They know nothing about Red SI go to a random school in Hong
• 13:14
  Kong. Yes, studying what red S
• 13:16
  actually means and I was shocked it was it was amazing, but Hong
• 13:20
  Kong is just it's like I would recommend it to absolutely
• 13:24
  everyone. I wouldn't I probably wouldn't
• 13:26
  live there again just because it's very very it's a very small
• 13:29
  country, especially for my running.
• 13:32
  It's the conditions are tough, very tough and there's not many.
• 13:37
  I mean, if you're going to go back to Asia, you want to go to
• 13:39
  Japan like Jake Barraclough has, because the athletes there are
• 13:42
  much better than anywhere else, whereas in Hong Kong there
• 13:45
  isn't. They are good, but they're just
• 13:47
  not at the nowhere near the level you need to be.
• 13:50
  And but for a holiday, yeah, I'll probably go back quite a
• 13:54
  few more times in my lifetime. Speaking of Japan, we raced
• 13:59
  there earlier in the year and having lived in Australia,
• 14:03
  because it's semi accessible for Australians in terms of like a
• 14:06
  flight, lots of Australians go there to race and run, run like
• 14:11
  the national records and stuff. They're just insane.
• 14:13
  I know I saw like, was it Brett Robinson who ran the marathon
• 14:16
  record? Yeah, because I paced him back
• 14:18
  in COVID time for the London Marathon and I've always known
• 14:24
  he was going to run something crazy ever since that day.
• 14:29
  Yeah, I think his his half record is from Maragami.
• 14:32
  I think it's still stands. Did he break 60 or was it just?
• 14:37
  47 or something. I just don't understand how
• 14:41
  these races impounded this quick.
• 14:44
  The depth as well. But it's funny because he
• 14:47
  watches Jade Paracott videos and it's just that suicidal thing is
• 14:50
  brilliant. And it is, it does feel like
• 14:54
  that when you're in the race, but it's hard to finish strong
• 14:57
  because you're not really racing anyone.
• 14:59
  You're just passing crowds. They're just like they're all
• 15:01
  dead. Are they getting almost in your
• 15:03
  way? Yeah, almost.
• 15:05
  You have to weave that's. Not what you want 25 miles into
• 15:10
  a race or something. So you started as a triathlete
• 15:16
  as well, do you believe? Yeah, so it was like in Hong
• 15:20
  Kong I played netball, football, rugby and I felt like just
• 15:24
  building you forget about. But a lot of youngsters asked me
• 15:27
  they want to be the best when they're like under 15 and 17.
• 15:30
  They asked me how do I get quick?
• 15:31
  And I say to them, I really don't care what you run when
• 15:34
  you're 50. Like I really don't care what
• 15:36
  you run as 15/17/16 year old. Because at the end of the day,
• 15:39
  all that matters is getting ultimately getting into that
• 15:42
  Olympic standard or getting that getting to the Olympics.
• 15:45
  And I was never very good when I was young.
• 15:47
  I was, I was decent in Hong Kong and then when I came to the UK
• 15:50
  and saw the difference in speeds, I wasn't very good.
• 15:53
  So for example, I was 30 seconds off the English, English schools
• 15:58
  time for the 3K when I was in year 12 or year 13.
• 16:02
  And then at English Cross, my best position was 50th.
• 16:05
  And I it was actually quite funny.
• 16:07
  This year at London Marathon was the closest I've ever been to
• 16:10
  Alex Sheehan, a race. I've raced them over 6
• 16:12
  kilometres across. It was actually the closest time
• 16:15
  difference over a marathon instead of a 6K kilometre
• 16:19
  across. So shows like the improvement
• 16:22
  I've made and stuff. But what I my mom wanted me to
• 16:26
  get into some triathlon because basically I sort of, I've always
• 16:30
  had an issue with food when I was younger.
• 16:33
  So when I was like 1516, I saw cams.
• 16:36
  So it's a basically food disorder.
• 16:37
  Like you speak to them about it, but they, I didn't get on very
• 16:40
  well with them. And they're very much for people
• 16:43
  who struggle with food disorders, not athletes.
• 16:46
  So for example if I yeah. Just that like the child adult
• 16:51
  mental health thing. Yes, so it's it's something like
• 16:55
  that and it's they're supposed, but they don't have the
• 16:57
  experience of dealing with people who want to run
• 17:01
  basically. So I didn't get on well with
• 17:03
  that and I just kept going through phases of not eating
• 17:06
  enough. I went to a private school,
• 17:08
  hated it. I don't want to be rude to their
• 17:11
  private school kids, but private school kids, they're a bit bit
• 17:13
  up themselves. So I didn't like.
• 17:17
  That I don't reckon we've got any private schools.
• 17:21
  So I hated it and then I went to college and go to college and
• 17:25
  it's just, it's just the best years of their life because it's
• 17:27
  just normal, normal people who don't care what you do and they
• 17:32
  support you. Went to college and was getting
• 17:34
  a lot better. But because I damaged my body so
• 17:36
  much and my mom thought the triathlon stuff would actually
• 17:39
  really help because, you know, low impact from the swimming and
• 17:41
  cycling. But that's when I, I didn't
• 17:43
  realize. But I probably did have red ass
• 17:45
  back then because I ended up having two stress fractures and
• 17:49
  probably because I was burning so many calories without even
• 17:52
  thinking how many calories you burn on the bike you saw in the
• 17:54
  Tour de France, how much they're eating and even swimming.
• 17:58
  And so I just went through phases of getting injury after
• 18:02
  injury after injury. And when I went to university, I
• 18:06
  knew something you needed to change.
• 18:08
  So my coach at times James D told me, OK, stop this triathlon
• 18:12
  stuff. You're not, you're, you're not
• 18:13
  that. You're, you're OK at the Viking
• 18:15
  swim. You're never going to be, never
• 18:17
  going to get to the Olympic. Like even a British fest, like
• 18:20
  no chance. So I started taking just running
• 18:23
  and like dropped the I still did a bit of cross training because
• 18:26
  I'm a big fan of cross training instead of like cross training
• 18:28
  instead of run. But in the first year, it
• 18:31
  actually saved me because I was going out three, four times a
• 18:35
  week and was hungover to multiple sessions.
• 18:39
  But without even realizing I was probably having like a Mackey's
• 18:43
  of Burger King after the night's out and actually probably saved
• 18:46
  me because I was putting in calories into my body while
• 18:49
  training. And that whole year I was just
• 18:51
  improving. And even from the alcohol, I
• 18:55
  know it's, I shouldn't really not say this like it's not the
• 18:58
  best calories to have, but it was putting calories into my
• 19:01
  body. And coming from a person who
• 19:05
  struggled with eating and wasn't putting enough, then by putting
• 19:08
  in just the number of the right number of calories, even if it's
• 19:12
  from fatty foods, fast foods or anything like that, my body was
• 19:16
  able to actually sustain a good level of like sport.
• 19:22
  And then when I moved into a second, I moved into a house
• 19:25
  with other runners. And then that's just when it
• 19:27
  just started taking over. Like the whole triathlon thing,
• 19:30
  I just completely dropped. And I was like OK running is my
• 19:34
  one and only goal. So at what age or stage did you
• 19:39
  drop it then? How old are you there?
• 19:41
  Like literally 1920 it was, it was quite like I was still
• 19:45
  swimming and stuff like that. So if you don't include that,
• 19:49
  like it took, it was a long time, but I really, really
• 19:52
  enjoyed it. And I watch all the like Super
• 19:54
  League triathlons, ITU races. So you watch one of those, you
• 19:57
  want to go out and do it and. But there's another thing I was
• 20:01
  doing until I was at 1819, I was playing Saturday League football
• 20:05
  for my for my seat in reserves. We were called.
• 20:08
  So I wasn't even in first team. We were in the Southwest
• 20:13
  Division 7, so I don't know how many leagues and that's below
• 20:18
  the Premier League, but there was a lot.
• 20:21
  Yeah, but for for like English people will understand this, but
• 20:24
  Australians might not. Saturday is definitely better
• 20:27
  than Sunday league. Yeah, it was it, it got to a
• 20:31
  stage, though, that one of the guys in our team got arrested
• 20:35
  because he got a red card and he went to his boot and got like a
• 20:39
  knife out or something or a bat. It was, it was, it was nuts.
• 20:43
  It was basically just like, you know, men who weren't happy
• 20:48
  about anything and just wanted to take you out.
• 20:50
  But I loved it. It was.
• 20:51
  It was just good fun. And now as a runner, do you look
• 20:54
  back and think like, oh, I'd love a game of football, but I
• 20:57
  wouldn't dare step on a pitch and get my leg broken?
• 21:00
  You every day at the time I watch a reading.
• 21:02
  I do think I could actually play for them.
• 21:05
  But yeah, it's it's one of those I just, I just couldn't it would
• 21:10
  it would have to only be like a similar side game where there's
• 21:12
  no studs or something. But like I know I will get back
• 21:16
  into football when the running is done just because I think
• 21:19
  even if it's stunning league, but I think just the whole like
• 21:21
  dynamic of it, like people have such a good laugh and you're
• 21:24
  with your mates playing. But right now I'll get, I'll get
• 21:27
  broken. You could do a job little CDM
• 21:32
  energy. Oh, I know, I know.
• 21:34
  I love that. I'll be a.
• 21:35
  Can't say really, I think actually.
• 21:38
  Quite can't say. So do you think the the love for
• 21:45
  triathlon comes from like the the love to train?
• 21:48
  Because you can just train so much for triathlon, can't you?
• 21:52
  Yeah, it's a complete. I've never, I've never really
• 21:55
  thought about that. But then now I think about that.
• 21:57
  It's completely true. Like I am addicted.
• 22:00
  And I think you almost have to be addicted to get to that level
• 22:03
  because I know I'm a professional.
• 22:05
  But you to get to a level you want, you need to get out the
• 22:07
  door. You don't want to.
• 22:08
  You can't really miss any run. So at the end of the day, it is
• 22:11
  almost an addiction. And I just loved it, like being
• 22:15
  outside, especially in the summer when you can cycle till
• 22:18
  9:00 PM because it's like in the winter.
• 22:20
  It was the most horrible thing in the world, like going out for
• 22:23
  a cycle, but it you almost get a different feeling as well when
• 22:27
  and another thing is when you because you're using completely
• 22:29
  different muscles from the bike, swim and run.
• 22:31
  I know you are to hide, but you can still put out quite a lot of
• 22:34
  effort like in each discipline each day.
• 22:38
  And it was, I just felt like it was building my aerobic system
• 22:41
  quite a lot and every little 1% you could get helped.
• 22:46
  But then it's like, but then the thing I was doing was I was
• 22:48
  neglecting my recovery massively.
• 22:51
  So when you look back, when I look back at it, I sort of wish
• 22:55
  I spoke to a coach early enough to help me get that recovery
• 22:58
  site because I had no clue. But I, I literally thought when
• 23:00
  I was younger age, you have to train, train, train.
• 23:02
  Didn't think about the nutrition at all, didn't think about the
• 23:05
  sleep. Whereas now it's like I go for a
• 23:09
  run. I don't leave the house until 5
• 23:12
  or 6 later. I have a 2 hour nap during the
• 23:13
  day. It's it's completely changed my
• 23:15
  mindset and I'm now much healthier and getting better and
• 23:20
  better every day. So when you drop the try, was
• 23:23
  that when you went to Cardiff Met Uni?
• 23:25
  Yes, yes, it was. It was literally I was probably
• 23:28
  doing some cycling and swimming for the first month at
• 23:32
  university. Then my coach saw like sort of
• 23:35
  my talent in the running and just said, OK, let's just give
• 23:37
  this a go and if it doesn't work out you can go back into it.
• 23:41
  And then from there, it's just then I got just better and
• 23:43
  better, really. So what year was that then that
• 23:46
  you first started uni in? 2017, I think 2017, yeah.
• 23:53
  Yeah. OK.
• 23:53
  So I was looking on power of 10 and 2018 stands out as like a
• 23:58
  bit of a breakthrough year from your results.
• 24:01
  Yeah, I ran. I think that was year around
• 24:03
  64th minutes for the half and a Jack Rainer won that race.
• 24:07
  Oh yeah. Yeah, it was the Commonwealth.
• 24:10
  It was that, it was, it was such a cool event.
• 24:12
  It was the Commonwealth Half Marathon champs.
• 24:14
  They've never really done it, I think again.
• 24:18
  But I wasn't, I wasn't representing any country.
• 24:20
  I was just, I just turned up like and I came like 15th or
• 24:24
  16th in the whole race. Yes, you you ran a 6 minute PB
• 24:29
  there. Yes.
• 24:30
  So that was literally a year of that's the thing.
• 24:33
  It's like in order to improve the most you invest, you just
• 24:36
  want that consistency. I had a year of consistency, no
• 24:39
  injuries, no nothing and following a proper training
• 24:42
  plan. Whereas all the years before I
• 24:44
  kept getting, you know, injuries.
• 24:46
  I had problems with food. It was like very up and down,
• 24:48
  whereas my consistency was just in that straight, straight line
• 24:52
  upwards and I knew I was going to run fast.
• 24:54
  I didn't know I was going to run that quick.
• 24:55
  But I was very lucky being in Commonwealth year because there
• 24:58
  was so many people around me and yeah, it was just and then from
• 25:04
  there it just got better and better.
• 25:06
  A couple of things on that then. So when you started uni there
• 25:10
  that year, maybe we've run 64 because you've got 8O63K and
• 25:16
  bizarrely your five KPB you ran at Park Run, 1421 at Park Run.
• 25:22
  What was training like there in terms of mileage and stuff then?
• 25:26
  So it was my first, I can actually get up, but it was my
• 25:28
  first like my first sub 15 at the park run.
• 25:33
  So we actually went for it and but it was, it was I was
• 25:37
  following a brilliant training plan with my coach, but it did
• 25:39
  also sort of break me. It was quite tough.
• 25:42
  So for example a Monday would be a progression and as I got
• 25:47
  fitter this Monday so it would start with like 630 down to 530
• 25:51
  talking K's or miles. Sorry.
• 25:53
  K's. OK, so it was starting like 410
• 25:56
  K's, four O 5K's, like 330's whereas but then when I got
• 26:01
  fitter and fitter it got to a phase where I would be doing
• 26:04
  like I would start at 3:40 down to 250 like just on a Monday in
• 26:09
  the evening. This is when I either did like 8
• 26:12
  to 10K of running easy or cross trainer like a 45 minute cross
• 26:17
  trainer. So when I replicate my cross
• 26:19
  trainer, it's the same time by trying to hit the same heart
• 26:21
  rate on a Tuesday. It was a tough session.
• 26:25
  So that would be in the in when I first joined university, it
• 26:29
  would be like 4 minute reps grass.
• 26:32
  It would be like it just depended.
• 26:34
  It's, it's a fart like essentially.
• 26:36
  And it just, it literally just kept doing that.
• 26:39
  Tuesday, that would be Tuesday evening.
• 26:40
  Tuesday morning was another easy recovery, 8 to 10K.
• 26:44
  Wednesday was a standard one run.
• 26:46
  So it'd be we started with 16 K and then as the week's
• 26:49
  progressed, as I started getting fitter, it went up to 22 K and I
• 26:53
  think 24K the Max. So it's like a midweek long run.
• 26:56
  Thursday was a steady run. So again, when we first started
• 27:01
  that was about like 6, like no, sorry, it was like 340 per KS
• 27:06
  again. But then when I started getting
• 27:08
  fit, it was like 3:15, 3/20, like just again on a round on
• 27:12
  Thursday. So you know during those
• 27:16
  progression steady runs because you use heart rate so much,
• 27:19
  don't you? Are you going off the target
• 27:21
  heart rate there? So when I first joined the
• 27:23
  university, I didn't really have heart rate.
• 27:26
  So I just run and I definitely went too hard sometimes.
• 27:30
  Whereas when I started getting the heart rate data because I've
• 27:33
  done testing and stuff. So for example, if I did it now,
• 27:36
  it would be like almost up to LT1, like LT1 Max the heart rate
• 27:41
  for for the steady. So it'd be like 165 I was
• 27:45
  allowed to go up to for example. And then for their progression I
• 27:48
  would probably be able to go above LT1, closer to Lt. 2.
• 27:52
  So say I was like 175 to 180 heart rate and you follow this
• 27:57
  training cycle, you will get so fit.
• 27:59
  But I think it also broke me because then on a Friday it was
• 28:03
  an easy recovery run in the morning and then a eight to 10
• 28:05
  mile session. It could be anywhere like a
• 28:07
  tempo at three O 5. Sometimes it could be a far leg.
• 28:11
  You're running quick, quick reps Saturday was the easy run, like
• 28:15
  literally 1 easy run. And then on a Sunday it was
• 28:18
  getting up to 32 kilometres under 340 pace.
• 28:21
  So you look at my average pace for the total week I was
• 28:23
  averaging, I was sometimes doing when I was getting towards my
• 28:27
  fitness, I was getting towards like 150160K under 340 KS for
• 28:32
  the whole week. It was.
• 28:33
  It was, Yeah, it was crazy. Yeah, that's huge.
• 28:36
  And are you doing anything specific in terms of targeting
• 28:40
  like a single distance there or you just getting fist
• 28:43
  essentially? I think it was.
• 28:45
  It was because I was training for the half marathon, so when
• 28:49
  it became more of a half marathon focus, I was doing
• 28:52
  longer sessions on the Tuesday and Friday.
• 28:54
  Whereas when it was more than 5K specific, the training was a
• 28:58
  slightly different. So Tuesday would be fast reps on
• 29:00
  the track, whereas Friday slightly more aerobic.
• 29:03
  But the Sunday long run, it was like, it's such a standard 15 to
• 29:07
  20 miles. I'm sorry, I just need to move
• 29:09
  at like sub three 40s because I think for me personally that
• 29:12
  gets me so, so fit. And then when you look back at
• 29:15
  all that training now, do you look at it in a different light
• 29:19
  because I assume maybe you weren't taking on any gels or
• 29:22
  anything like that? Yeah, it was, it was, it was too
• 29:26
  hard. It was, it was, it was one of
• 29:27
  those if I said to you, OK, you want to be the fittest you can
• 29:29
  ever be in three months and then might be broken after that, you
• 29:34
  do it. Whereas beforehand it was like,
• 29:37
  it was just, it was just a bit too hard.
• 29:39
  And I kind of wish because I never took on gels or anything,
• 29:43
  I kind of wish I did because you know, the gels and the Morton
• 29:46
  and stuff. It does speed up your recovery.
• 29:47
  But again, because I just, I didn't have that idea.
• 29:51
  I had a bad relationship. So I started having a bad
• 29:54
  relationship again with food in my third year.
• 29:57
  So it's literally like, again, I was going through very, very bad
• 30:01
  phases. You know, just whilst you touch
• 30:04
  on the bad relationship with food, is that like a body image
• 30:08
  thing or more so like just forgetting to eat and struggling
• 30:11
  to eat? Yeah, you, you look at the size
• 30:14
  of some of the Africans and I thought to myself, how do I beat
• 30:17
  these guys? Let's first get to their level.
• 30:20
  And that was get skinny, basically.
• 30:22
  And it got to a phase where I remember I would eat, I actually
• 30:27
  looked on, I actually used like My Fitness Pal and it got to a
• 30:30
  phase where I'd be, it burned 45000 calories and I'd eat 2000.
• 30:34
  Sometimes even when I was at that rubbish private school, I'd
• 30:38
  eat an apple during the day. That's when it really got bad.
• 30:41
  And that was it. And then not nothing till
• 30:43
  dinner. And I saw when I was in the
• 30:45
  third year, I saw the relationship with my times
• 30:48
  getting quicker and my weight coming down.
• 30:50
  So I started weighing myself every day.
• 30:51
  And as soon as you get into that mindset is recipe for disaster
• 30:56
  because I went to Uganda, I got down to 51 kilos, 52 kilos when
• 31:01
  I was 23 years old. And when I came back from there,
• 31:07
  that's when it got to the worst possible stage because I just
• 31:09
  didn't. My girlfriend came out for two
• 31:11
  weeks and she was like, something's not good.
• 31:14
  And when I got to that level, I came back, did blood tests.
• 31:17
  I had anemia. I had the my bone health.
• 31:23
  They basically said if you, if you keep this up, by the time
• 31:26
  you're a 30 years old, you're in a wheelchair.
• 31:28
  I had my testosterone score was four.
• 31:30
  And at the time, woman's testosterone had to be below 5.
• 31:34
  I couldn't physically run up a hill.
• 31:36
  It was. Yeah, it was.
• 31:38
  It was autumn, Yeah. That must be so hard then,
• 31:42
  because I guess you've got people from the outside looking
• 31:45
  in, they can kind of see you progressing like negatively, but
• 31:49
  you're just getting all these results and you're getting
• 31:51
  faster and you're like, well, I'm heading in the right
• 31:53
  direction. It's not until you take a step
• 31:55
  back and you're like, wow. It's it's one of those as well.
• 31:58
  When I ran the 20, the half marathon in 2020, I kind of
• 32:02
  sorry there's some dream now happening.
• 32:06
  But when I ran the half marathon in 2020, I wish I didn't do it.
• 32:10
  Like it's, you know, a lot of people might say about PB Day,
• 32:13
  it was the best day of their life and it was the best.
• 32:15
  It was a great time. But also it's probably the worst
• 32:18
  thing that could have ever happened to me because I was so
• 32:20
  light and I saw a good relationship relationship
• 32:23
  between my weight and running fast time.
• 32:26
  I shouldn't. I just wish I almost didn't do
• 32:28
  it, if that makes sense. And yeah, And it's when people
• 32:32
  say to me like, even now they're like, oh, if you're a 6030
• 32:36
  runner, I just, I don't want to. I never, when people ask what
• 32:39
  your PB, I never really say that time anymore because I was like,
• 32:42
  that was a side of me which wasn't healthy.
• 32:45
  And if I want to portray myself as being healthy and getting
• 32:48
  through this healthily, especially online, I want to
• 32:50
  show people who I am now and I can actually do it with a really
• 32:53
  healthy body. So right now I'm a 62 minute
• 32:56
  half guy because that's what I run at start of the year.
• 32:59
  And when I I want to beat that time and then beat, beat, show
• 33:02
  people that I'm 1012 kilos heavier than I, I was back then.
• 33:06
  But I'm now running quicker and that's my whole new mindset.
• 33:10
  And yeah, that's what I'm going to do.
• 33:12
  Yeah, that's an incredible mindset.
• 33:14
  So we'll we'll delete the intro then.
• 33:17
  Sorry. No, I'm only joking.
• 33:20
  That's fine. It's yeah, that's that's
• 33:23
  impressive though. Your mindset now, you can see
• 33:25
  from like even just through your socials and stuff, kind of like
• 33:29
  how motivated you are. And you're almost wanting to
• 33:32
  like be an advocate for everything at the same time as
• 33:35
  well, aren't you? And like, bring people along on
• 33:37
  the journey of what you've been through.
• 33:39
  That's the thing, it's like you should see how many people have
• 33:42
  actually like messaged me and everything about like struggling
• 33:46
  with red ass, especially a lot of men.
• 33:48
  And I'm just I'm in a mindset where when when I had like,
• 33:55
  sorry, when I struggle with red S quite badly.
• 33:58
  I spoke to people Wolfen and I had a foot stress fracture in my
• 34:02
  right foot. This was the end of 2022.
• 34:04
  I'd just come third at big half to my FARA and I then didn't
• 34:08
  stop training. I smashed cross training, did 20
• 34:11
  hours a week. I didn't lose any weight.
• 34:13
  I was trying to maintain sort of race weight, which didn't work
• 34:16
  out. My foot took an extra month to
• 34:18
  heal. I then did one month of running.
• 34:20
  When I came back, run, walk, no, barely any mileage.
• 34:23
  My back went and I'm a sacrum stress fracture.
• 34:26
  And sacrum stress fractures are primarily down to lack of food
• 34:30
  because they're right in the back.
• 34:31
  You can't sit down. And it's such a strong bone and
• 34:34
  it's just, it's not a good thing to break.
• 34:37
  And so when that happened, I took five weeks off completely,
• 34:43
  literally you tell the runner, no cross training, no swimming,
• 34:45
  no walking, nothing. And I had to learn how to eat
• 34:48
  properly. So I moved back home because I
• 34:51
  knew my parents were going to be my best supporters, my biggest
• 34:53
  supporters. And they literally, they plated
• 34:56
  me a normal plate person's food. And at the time I was like, what
• 34:59
  the hell, This is too much, literally a normal person's
• 35:02
  diet. And I literally had to train my
• 35:04
  body to eat normal because and it's little things I've done.
• 35:08
  Now it's like my mom when I'm back home, when my mum sets up
• 35:11
  the plate because you know, at the back of my mind, because I
• 35:14
  used to weigh everything. I know exactly how much is too
• 35:18
  little most. So by telling someone else to
• 35:20
  wait, that's another thing I say to people struck people
• 35:22
  struggling with red ass. Get someone else you you are
• 35:26
  confident in to wait to plate your foods because it's the best
• 35:29
  thing that can ever happen. And that's what I did.
• 35:32
  When my mum and my girlfriend does company, she's still with
• 35:35
  me. She's been through all this with
• 35:36
  me, but she played my food the whole time because she knows if
• 35:40
  I played it, you know, just little things I probably won't
• 35:43
  put. I'll put one less spoonful of
• 35:45
  rice and I just won't realize because it's my old self.
• 35:48
  And after the five weeks I promised myself, I said to
• 35:51
  myself, I'm not doing this sport just for me anymore.
• 35:54
  I'm doing this. It's my priority now to make
• 35:57
  this red ass, which is such a niche thing, stand out.
• 36:00
  And actually it, it doesn't affect, it doesn't not affect
• 36:04
  elite athletes. It actually probably affects the
• 36:06
  normal athlete more because it's like it's one of those, you
• 36:09
  know, a lot of people come into sport and want to lose weight.
• 36:12
  Technically they do it for months and months.
• 36:14
  They are will be having red because they are losing a lot of
• 36:18
  weight and they're not consuming enough.
• 36:19
  And it can almost get to a figure where they start losing
• 36:22
  so much weight. They keep doing it when they're
• 36:25
  actually healthy. They are to fall into that
• 36:27
  column. And so I promise them.
• 36:29
  So every time I turn outside the door, I'm like, OK, I'm showing
• 36:32
  people I'm getting back to my best.
• 36:33
  I'm not doing it just for myself.
• 36:35
  I'm proving all the hate like people who thought I would never
• 36:37
  get back. But I'm also, if I can help one
• 36:39
  person or 1000 people, show them my journey and show them never
• 36:44
  to go through what I did, the impact it had in your body, then
• 36:47
  that's that's what I'll do. So and that's why I'm really,
• 36:51
  really trying to push for it. And I think when I retire well,
• 36:55
  I want to get the age free records when when running is
• 36:58
  less important for me. I will then primarily focus on
• 37:04
  how the health and well-being of athletes of any age.
• 37:08
  Yeah, that's so impressive. So did it take it was on the
• 37:12
  back of Uganda? Was it where it first become
• 37:14
  apparent? It was, it was, it was before
• 37:17
  back in Uganda. You should see there's a photo
• 37:19
  of me representing GB and my, my arm.
• 37:23
  I like all that. I just hang on.
• 37:25
  I'm just going to close one of the doors, sorry.
• 37:30
  And my my arms were were tiny. It was a cross because I went
• 37:34
  represent a UGB at the European cross country champs in Ireland
• 37:39
  and my arms were like there's a photo and they're like that.
• 37:42
  And I didn't have any strength on that course.
• 37:45
  I think could also like GB to their Charles two weeks before
• 37:49
  and it's it's tough. You do a 10K cross and then try
• 37:52
  and get ready for a European race 2 weeks later.
• 37:54
  It is tough. But I had no strength and so I
• 37:57
  finished the race and from there I then went to Uganda.
• 38:02
  But that whole time I was like somethings not right.
• 38:05
  My girlfriend kept telling me I didn't.
• 38:08
  I was still with my old coach. My parents were very worried and
• 38:13
  wanted me to speak to someone. But again, I was in such a bad
• 38:16
  place where I've even said to people no one could have got me
• 38:19
  out of it. The only way I could get out of
• 38:21
  it was by getting a massive stress, stress injury.
• 38:24
  And it's a horrible thing because I understand when a lot
• 38:27
  of young, I see it online, I see a lot of youngsters be like, oh,
• 38:30
  how do you get out of it? Like they're struggling with it.
• 38:33
  I can't tell them to change because they just, it is so hard
• 38:36
  to listen. And then throughout 2022, it was
• 38:39
  a horrible thing. But because I was so light, the
• 38:42
  light you are, the faster you do run.
• 38:44
  It's a horrible, horrible thing. And because I was so light, I
• 38:48
  came back. And every time I came back from
• 38:50
  an injury, I was so fit because ultimately you're not carrying
• 38:54
  as much. I hate it, but it is true.
• 38:56
  And whereas now like I put on like 15 kilos when I came back
• 39:01
  into running, it took me a long time to get fit.
• 39:04
  But but yeah, it's yeah. And it's just, it's just, it's
• 39:09
  just that trying to get people away from that light as being
• 39:13
  faster. And I think nowadays you
• 39:15
  actually see some athletes, like for example, Jacob in the
• 39:17
  Britain, he's not, he's not small, like he's not, he's not
• 39:21
  too skinny or anything. And he's an Olympic champion,
• 39:24
  like he's won the 5K however many times.
• 39:26
  Grant Fisher, again, he's not skinny like these guys now
• 39:30
  became. They're not.
• 39:31
  You can see you're seeing the bigger people actually start
• 39:34
  winning. And that's what I kind of want
• 39:37
  to show to people, really. Like the other Co host, Dean
• 39:42
  interviewed Izzy Bat Doyle, Australian.
• 39:45
  Oh yeah, he's a big fan of that. Yeah, she's class and she was
• 39:49
  talking similarly. She said that like kind of in
• 39:52
  college she had a bit of a bad relationship with like nutrition
• 39:56
  and stuff through the coaches. But now she looks at it as
• 39:59
  though like fuel is like strength and stuff and she'd
• 40:02
  rather carry an extra kilo or two, knowing that she's like
• 40:05
  going to recover and stuff. So when, when I was getting
• 40:09
  ready for London this year, I, my coach, so I didn't weigh
• 40:11
  myself for a year and a half, I threw the scales away and my
• 40:14
  coach said he just wanted me to weigh myself because you know,
• 40:17
  the marathon training you can lose quite a fair bit because
• 40:20
  you are just doing so much. And it was one of those times
• 40:24
  when I weighed myself the first time and it was like I did some
• 40:28
  testing and I saw a number, it was like 68.5.
• 40:31
  And I was like holy moly, this is a lot and it affects me quite
• 40:34
  a bit. And then I got down to like 65
• 40:37
  but over three months. So it was a kilo a month, which
• 40:41
  I think is very healthy almost. But of course ashes from
• 40:47
  mileage, like there was no, there was no real intention.
• 40:50
  And then in April I actually put on a kilo from March and my head
• 40:54
  went, my head was for that that day.
• 40:56
  My head was not was a bit like, what have I done?
• 41:00
  But then I spoke to my coach and everything and he said, Jake,
• 41:03
  your bodies, your race weights are like you have literally
• 41:07
  stayed apart from like being 68, you know, after Christmas
• 41:11
  holidays and stuff like that, you're always going to put a bit
• 41:13
  on weight. But you lit your body for the
• 41:16
  last few months has stayed at 6665.
• 41:18
  I don't care what you say, your race weight is this, your race
• 41:21
  weight is not what you can like what you race fast is.
• 41:24
  That is what your body is able to sustain 120 miles a week on
• 41:30
  and on and on and on. And that was what I was doing.
• 41:32
  I was training more than ever and my weight was staying the
• 41:34
  same. And I was like, OK, that's my
• 41:36
  race weight. So if I'm a bit like if I'm.
• 41:38
  And then I went on and ran the fastest time at Rd. relays.
• 41:42
  So the 5K national Rd. Relays ran the fastest time
• 41:46
  there. And then I went on to run a 211
• 41:49
  marathon and when it got up to 2122° because I was only two
• 41:53
  minutes back from 2 1/2 from that strain, Who did it?
• 41:58
  What's his name? Andy Buchanan.
• 41:59
  Yeah yeah so I was like OK, you've run two O 6 before the
• 42:03
  conditions can't have been perfect and as well it's like my
• 42:07
  weight my by having that extra weight like the conditions got a
• 42:11
  little bit tough say london's not the fault like compared to
• 42:13
  Valencia not the fastest course, but I was like you know what my
• 42:17
  probably my weight probably helps me that I had more energy
• 42:20
  to get through the whole race. I wish it had a bit more an
• 42:22
  issue for the last three K, but apart from and that it's my
• 42:26
  strength is now becoming my biggest factor.
• 42:28
  And my coach has actually said now he said the last two years,
• 42:32
  because I actually moved coach from James C to Gavin and Joe
• 42:34
  Pavey because I just need a whole new change after Uganda.
• 42:37
  But he says you're actually really you're actually very
• 42:40
  strong individual. Like I know I was getting injury
• 42:43
  after injury beforehand, but I was with a very unhealthy body.
• 42:47
  Whereas the last two years I've had, I had a two week stint off
• 42:51
  because I I basically partially tore my calf while doing the 5K
• 42:55
  race during marathon training, which wasn't the smartest.
• 42:58
  But ever since then, it's just my bloods are now my
• 43:03
  testosterone has gone from 4 to 19.
• 43:05
  It's almost on too high. And my coach says it's starting
• 43:09
  to get to the higher marker from in the healthy range.
• 43:13
  Yeah, everything. All my bloods have quadrupled.
• 43:16
  Basically my iron's still like on the, but not a nowhere near
• 43:19
  anemia. It's just I still need it a tiny
• 43:21
  bit higher. But then that depends on the
• 43:22
  training and everything. Yeah, it's just I'm just
• 43:26
  building really. So your girlfriend's probably a
• 43:30
  lot happier now you've got your testosterone levels.
• 43:34
  Yeah, that that comments always made after I say that.
• 43:42
  Do you think that when you signed for NN, did that
• 43:46
  contribute anything towards it? Because like, you just want to
• 43:49
  succeed and wanting to like prove yourself.
• 43:53
  Yes, I was in Ugandan. You're like you said, you were
• 43:55
  Joshua chapter guy and he's running 53 second four hundreds
• 43:59
  on a dirt football pitch. It might be 450, it might be 350
• 44:04
  with cows in the middle. There's it's not flat.
• 44:07
  This hill. It was most disgusting thing
• 44:09
  I've ever seen. And but when you're in that
• 44:11
  environment and you're within and as soon as you sign
• 44:14
  professional, like, I don't know if you've seen this, but so many
• 44:18
  athletes who first signed a professional contract actually
• 44:20
  get an injury. And I've actually realized that
• 44:24
  quite a lot quite recently. And it's because you're like,
• 44:28
  like, say you're like at that level getting a contract, you're
• 44:31
  going to push to another level. And just by pushing that extra
• 44:35
  2030%, it's I, I like lifted training so much.
• 44:39
  Like every session I did in Uganda was full, full out and it
• 44:43
  broke me and I had to go home a week early because I physically
• 44:47
  couldn't run. It was it was tough as well
• 44:50
  because I have so much respect. And then, but they sent me out
• 44:53
  to Uganda and there was no I was the only white guy.
• 44:56
  I was called the zoom code the whole time, which is fine, but I
• 44:58
  know no like the only people I had with the training partners,
• 45:02
  but they stayed at their camp and I stayed at somewhere else.
• 45:05
  So I know talk when it rains, electricity turned off in this
• 45:09
  in the town. So it's like I had no when my
• 45:13
  girlfriend came two weeks amazing, but then when she left,
• 45:16
  it's a horrible sort of feeling because you're you're literally
• 45:18
  solo. Whereas in Kenya, you know, you
• 45:20
  have all the camps with all the Europeans.
• 45:23
  I just had none of that. So I think that kind of
• 45:26
  completely broke me. But that being said, I want to
• 45:30
  go back in a heartbeat when I when my irons completely because
• 45:34
  my coach says you're not allowed to go to our shoot until it's
• 45:37
  above a certain level. Otherwise you won't get the
• 45:39
  benefit. But when when it's at that, I
• 45:41
  really, really want to show people I can do it.
• 45:45
  But also I went when I went there, like I didn't have my own
• 45:50
  cooking place. It was just like it almost a
• 45:51
  bed. So you had to eat what the chefs
• 45:55
  were cooking. It was like, it was just like a
• 45:57
  like not a hot, not a hotel, nowhere near a hotel, just a
• 46:00
  little campsite area. But it's one of those if they
• 46:03
  didn't have, they might not have chicken every day or like they
• 46:05
  might not have meat every day. So it's I would need to really
• 46:08
  think about what to bring and how to prepare if I went again.
• 46:12
  And are you starting to see like whilst you're out there and
• 46:15
  stuff and obviously you are quite fatigued, but maybe you
• 46:18
  don't realize it, but is your heart rate low?
• 46:22
  So the other day in Burlington, K, my average high was 184.
• 46:26
  My Max was 195 and I can sustain above 190 for ages in Uganda
• 46:31
  didn't go above 170 like my Max could not get above 170.
• 46:35
  I was, I was yeah, I was. I'd be sprinting if I did 3-4
• 46:40
  hundreds off 60. My like all three eight hundreds
• 46:43
  bit longer, my heart rate would not go above 170.
• 46:46
  Whereas now for a 10K for the last like 15 minutes or above
• 46:50
  190, I was like, OK, that's fine.
• 46:53
  And that is the biggest noticeable.
• 46:56
  Like just saying to people who are strong with it.
• 46:58
  Like even when I was training for the marathon, not after the
• 47:00
  marathon and I started getting back into training.
• 47:03
  I'm a very big fan of lactic. And I took my lactic and my
• 47:06
  lactic was very high for my heart rate.
• 47:09
  And that was just because I probably hadn't eaten enough.
• 47:12
  And I would say to my coach, Oh, my heart rate was this and it
• 47:15
  was probably the best ever heart rate for a tempo run.
• 47:18
  It's like, Oh my God, that's amazing.
• 47:19
  And I said, oh, it doesn't count because it definitely, because I
• 47:22
  was definitely slightly under fuelled.
• 47:24
  I'd got back into the training pattern and that's another big
• 47:27
  thing I take positively. It's like I know when you know,
• 47:31
  a lot of people who are say they haven't eaten enough or they're
• 47:34
  tired or they're fatigued and their heart rate's low and they
• 47:36
  almost use it, it's like, Oh my God, I'm really fit.
• 47:39
  I just, I don't use that anymore.
• 47:41
  I know when my body's fatigued from the heart rate and I just
• 47:44
  tell myself, OK, you need to eat more straight away.
• 47:47
  I'm not accepting that I'm fit, yet I know when I am and it
• 47:51
  takes a while to get there. So it's a fine line and a
• 47:54
  dangerous game, isn't it? Between low heart rate meaning
• 47:56
  fit and low heart rate meaning you cooked.
• 47:59
  Yeah. And it's also as well never
• 48:01
  compare yourself to other people's heart rates.
• 48:02
  So everyone is completely different.
• 48:04
  People can sustain a lot higher, speed can sustain a lot lower.
• 48:07
  And I wish someone had taught me that beforehand and not to
• 48:12
  compare and that that thing you just said about I now know when
• 48:16
  my body's tired. Whereas before I thought I was
• 48:19
  just so fit. And most of the time when my
• 48:22
  heart rate is really low and I thought it was really fit, I was
• 48:24
  ill two days later. So it's just little things like
• 48:27
  that. Whereas now I know every sort of
• 48:30
  risk factor and I know how to back off.
• 48:32
  I know what to eat, I know what to drink, I know how to recover.
• 48:35
  So ultimately it's like it's horribly, I'm very glad I've
• 48:39
  almost gone through this whole red ass thing because it's made
• 48:42
  me the person I'm now where I've never been this smart in terms
• 48:46
  of my training. And I know I'm 27 and like, but
• 48:49
  then you look at the marathon age, people are running 205 in
• 48:51
  their 40s. So like I was, I said to my
• 48:54
  girlfriend, I'm only two years old now because post red S it's
• 48:58
  been only two years. So I could add in you look at
• 49:01
  Ronaldo, he's over 14. He's still playing at the
• 49:04
  highest level. I know it's Saudi Arabia, but
• 49:07
  still very good level. And for me, it's like you can
• 49:12
  run any time if you keep your body healthy.
• 49:14
  So that's what my main focus is. That's class and I'm going to
• 49:18
  respect that because I was going to speak about all these PBS,
• 49:22
  your half marathon and your 211 pace job and all this.
• 49:25
  But I'm going to pivot on the spot because I respect the fact
• 49:30
  that you're saying you're wiping the slate clean and you're a new
• 49:32
  athlete now. So you've spoken about it a
• 49:34
  million times before. If people want to hear about it,
• 49:36
  they can probably find it elsewhere.
• 49:39
  But let's speak about London Marathon, where you you ran it
• 49:42
  as as the new version of Jake Smith.
• 49:45
  Yeah, it was, It was, it was. So it was.
• 49:47
  Yeah, it was good. I ran 6220 for the half and won
• 49:51
  a half half and I went into London in a very good place and
• 49:56
  it was another great thing was there were good, very good Brits
• 49:59
  there. Like you were missing.
• 50:00
  Emil, Mark Scott were probably the only two like 2 big guy
• 50:05
  names you were missing. So I knew I was in it for a
• 50:08
  tough race. And of course UK had to have the
• 50:12
  day of a heat wave. It had to be on the day and you
• 50:16
  know who's going to like, but I'm not, I don't, I don't like
• 50:19
  making excuses. Like it wasn't too bad.
• 50:22
  Of course it got a bit tougher after 20 miles, but I'm sorry,
• 50:27
  I'm just on an interview. Is that alright?
• 50:29
  Sorry, sorry. And it was, it was just like
• 50:36
  with the London, the whole experience, it was like it got
• 50:40
  it. You know, when you're warming up
• 50:41
  and all the Africans aren't wearing this jackets and stuff,
• 50:44
  you know, it's going to be a warm day.
• 50:45
  But I said to my coach, I don't like Phil Setzman, Johnny
• 50:49
  Mellor, Alex she or Jack Rowe all going for 64 basically
• 50:54
  through halfway. So I was like, look, I can't go
• 50:58
  with that. I will have to set off and then
• 51:01
  the pack behind and I went off with Ben Connor and I think
• 51:06
  Charlie. I always get them.
• 51:07
  There's two twins, George and Charlie Wheeler, and they look
• 51:10
  at they basically come next to each other in every single race.
• 51:12
  I had one of them, one of them pacing me and he did a brilliant
• 51:17
  job. He got me to 26 Ki was feeling
• 51:20
  fantastic. But then he said to me after
• 51:23
  racing, we stopped 26 K London. Like because you've raced in
• 51:26
  Japan, you know, there's Pete, there's bodies everywhere.
• 51:29
  London Marathon, he stops. There's no one in Insight, no
• 51:33
  one in front, no one behind. I'm running a major marathon and
• 51:38
  I'm and I have 10 miles left and there's no one to run off.
• 51:42
  So I was like, OK, what the hell.
• 51:43
  So I literally, we went through Hoffman like 6445.
• 51:47
  So he's like, I felt great. But then it's one of those where
• 51:50
  he actually apologized. He, he just ran 1314 for the 5K.
• 51:55
  And so this was a long way for him and he wanted me to get
• 51:58
  ME30K. And it's one of those if he got
• 52:00
  ME30K, I'm getting 4K further by myself because he only got me
• 52:05
  26, which is fine. I just put my head down and I
• 52:07
  just targeted those Brits and I got past every single one of
• 52:11
  them. Well, except and I caught up to
• 52:13
  Alex and I put him. He was like 30 seconds, heard of
• 52:17
  me at halfway in the space of like 8 Ki broke him down the
• 52:21
  time and I was I was running fast in him.
• 52:25
  But me being me and him being an Olympic champion, I sat on him
• 52:30
  and the pace got a bit slower and I sort of tried to help him.
• 52:34
  I I actually took the most drinks and shells.
• 52:37
  I'm getting better it. I probably could have used one
• 52:40
  more drink at like 35 K, but that's really cool footage of us
• 52:44
  to running together and racing. And yeah, and then 39 K, he puts
• 52:51
  like a surgeon. And I don't know how triathletes
• 52:53
  do this. He didn't even pick up the pace.
• 52:56
  I just had nothing. So last three Ki was running
• 52:59
  like 320 fives. I lost the minute.
• 53:01
  So I was on sub 211 pace up until 39 K and I was like, you
• 53:07
  know what, like this is like incredible because sub 210 like
• 53:13
  sub two, sorry, sub 211. Sorry.
• 53:16
  I was like, I could be a 210 guy.
• 53:18
  I could break my old time PB. But it was, I'm not like it just
• 53:21
  was a bit warm. Like I don't know if you've
• 53:23
  seen, but you know, through Canary Wharf, it's a bit
• 53:25
  sheltered and then you come out Canary Wharf, it's 2223°.
• 53:29
  And like then when I crossed the line, I was fourth Brit.
• 53:34
  I I ran still with 211 I and then you look at like it's one
• 53:39
  of those where you almost have to instead of looking times, you
• 53:41
  compare yourself to other runners and you look at like for
• 53:44
  example, the the other Australians running two O 9 in
• 53:47
  the 2O nines, then they can run two O 6.
• 53:50
  So I'm like, OK, that probably puts me in a low 210 place if I
• 53:53
  was in a Valencia or two O 9 high.
• 53:55
  And of course. In the build and he was even
• 53:59
  speaking about targeting 2O5 as well so.
• 54:02
  So. You finished ahead assessment,
• 54:04
  didn't you? Yes, so I went but it's it's
• 54:07
  such a nice thing from him. Like he I went past and he was
• 54:11
  struggling. He still gave me such a big
• 54:13
  let's go. And you saw like Crippa, for
• 54:16
  example, go through in sub 62. It was just it's just one of
• 54:20
  those like the week later. It was perfect conditions and it
• 54:25
  was just the one day, the one day we needed like a good day in
• 54:29
  London. And but I was I crossed that
• 54:32
  line. I was trapped.
• 54:33
  I was buzzing like, okay, I didn't run a PB I'm but I'm
• 54:37
  within a minute of my PB. And when I ran my PB, I know it
• 54:39
  was unhealthy. I was pacing but and then day I
• 54:42
  paced it so well because I was hitting those splits and it was
• 54:46
  when I did the that pacing job, it was 3°, it was 2223° in
• 54:50
  London. It was 20° hot.
• 54:52
  And I'm like, and the first thing I said to my coach, it
• 54:54
  shows my body can adapt and survive that situation.
• 54:58
  It can like no one. Everyone else was so far off.
• 55:01
  OK, I know the top ten guys run really quick, but that's the
• 55:05
  thing. You put 10 people in the same
• 55:07
  group the whole way instead of all these little subgroups.
• 55:10
  They are going to run really quick and they are ultimately
• 55:14
  the Africans are more used to the hot weather, whereas us
• 55:17
  Brits have done a whole winter. Whereas now if you told me to do
• 55:20
  a marathon after this summer season in the UK, I'll be more
• 55:23
  used to it. So.
• 55:26
  But yeah, I was chuffed. The fourth rate was horrible.
• 55:28
  And normally it's an England champs, but for some reason the
• 55:31
  England champs wrote Manchester Marathon and the England
• 55:33
  champion was 217. I was fuming because they got
• 55:38
  the the third Brit was Scottish, so I would have come third
• 55:42
  English. So but then you look at the name
• 55:45
  she beat as well. And yeah, it was it was a big
• 55:48
  day. And like, for example, you look
• 55:50
  at Stefan Asan, you can run 213. She ran what, two 18219?
• 55:54
  So, yeah, and it put me in a good place.
• 55:57
  I then spend the two weeks after getting very drunk at weddings.
• 56:02
  So that was quite nice. And I was.
• 56:05
  Going to say this like I didn't know where it was going to come
• 56:08
  in but on Strava used to do so many like hungover runs and
• 56:12
  stuff. Oh.
• 56:12
  Yeah, yeah, in first you said yeah, I loved it.
• 56:15
  And partial. Oh, I had like we had this last
• 56:20
  wedding we went to, we finished like the whole Pyms at the the
• 56:24
  place. And I said to my coach, it was
• 56:25
  like I was getting back into like training the next day
• 56:28
  properly. And I said I was supposed to do
• 56:30
  like a fairly long run. I woke up and I was like, no,
• 56:32
  that one more day off because I was, I don't know if you've ever
• 56:37
  done this, but I was having a shower while throwing up.
• 56:39
  So it was it was I smashed it. I was buzzing.
• 56:42
  And then after that I did a session on the Tuesday.
• 56:44
  I felt sick. I thought I was going to throw
• 56:46
  up. Not that I know that he's a
• 56:50
  drinker. This isn't why that it segues
• 56:53
  into this, but just come to me. Have you ever been likened to
• 56:55
  Conor Manse? Yes, so I, I like, we're not
• 57:00
  friends, like we never met in person, but we've like sent a
• 57:02
  few messages. He's very religious.
• 57:05
  But yeah, it's, it's one of those where I want to race him,
• 57:09
  like I want to beat him one day. He's got ahead of me and he's a
• 57:12
  bit ahead of me, but he's someone.
• 57:16
  Oh, that's another actually saying that the Jake paragraph
• 57:19
  and the Clayton Young series on YouTube are very similar.
• 57:24
  But Connem Ants is the big, I don't know.
• 57:26
  I think he's he inspires a lot of people.
• 57:28
  He just he doesn't take anything, does he Just he
• 57:31
  doesn't care who you are, what you've ever done.
• 57:34
  He just goes for it. Yeah, his mentality, it's just
• 57:37
  like second to none. But that's why I think you're
• 57:40
  similar to him, and visually as well, you've got a slight look
• 57:42
  of him. Yeah, yeah, I, I know one day,
• 57:46
  like I've always thought about going out and like messing him
• 57:49
  and saying, look, can I train with him?
• 57:51
  And I think I still would love to message him and ask.
• 57:55
  Of course, like I said, like the first thing I need to do is get
• 57:57
  my iron up and everything to a like a level where I actually
• 58:01
  get the benefit. But it's a big, I think he's the
• 58:07
  if I was to pick someone now because I've been to Uganda, he
• 58:10
  would be the next, the person I would message first.
• 58:13
  Yeah, he's like your inspiration right now for the coming back.
• 58:16
  Yeah, it, it annoys me. He's because I was ahead of him
• 58:19
  when I ran 6030 and then I've been through this and he's
• 58:22
  actually like, because he follows my instrument.
• 58:24
  He like he's messaged me a few times.
• 58:26
  I've messaged him. So he's, I think he's actually a
• 58:28
  little bit of a fan, which is quite cool.
• 58:32
  He's going for the American record, I think.
• 58:34
  Isn't he in Chicago? Yeah, it's, yeah.
• 58:37
  It's, I think it, it does make you think how good Ryan Hall was
• 58:42
  like when he with the record in old shoes.
• 58:45
  I think he can do it. I think I still, I understand a
• 58:49
  lot. I've actually spoken to a lot of
• 58:50
  athletes, but not many athletes are actually doing well with
• 58:52
  this year because it's not actually a money incentive.
• 58:55
  But us being in Japan, it will be a tough marathon.
• 59:00
  But it's a it's a shame he's not doing well because I really
• 59:03
  think he could have meddled. But at the end of the day, the
• 59:06
  money he would get for an American record and his
• 59:08
  appearance fee would be second to none.
• 59:10
  Yeah, his contracts probably pretty tasty in that fence,
• 59:13
  isn't it? Yeah.
• 59:16
  It's the same with the Australians here because Sydney
• 59:19
  Marathon, because that's now major, that's in a couple of
• 59:22
  weeks, they've got like big Australian only prize money
• 59:25
  there. So lots of the marathon is like,
• 59:27
  do we do Sydney? Do we do worlds?
• 59:29
  It's, it's quite hilly, isn't it?
• 59:31
  Yeah, it is. Is it a bit like Boston but not
• 59:34
  downhill? Yeah, it's not exactly.
• 59:36
  You're not going to run a PB there, but they're trying to
• 59:40
  make it like a bit of an experience, one that you finish
• 59:42
  in front of the Opera House. And yeah, they're incentivizing
• 59:45
  them through money and stuff. That's really cool.
• 59:50
  Yeah. It'll be interesting to see,
• 59:52
  like, now it's got its fair share status as a world major,
• 59:55
  like how it takes off internationally, I think.
• 59:58
  Well, they've got Kipchergi and Saffan Hassan, so that's a good
• 1:00:01
  start in terms of marketing. Oh.
• 1:00:03
  Yeah. Very good.
• 1:00:05
  And the OR the Co host, the Irish guy, he wanted me to ask
• 1:00:08
  you about your shoe rotation. Yeah, so I actually have them
• 1:00:12
  all here so I can actually show you.
• 1:00:14
  But I wear the marrows these ones for like just easy mileage
• 1:00:19
  and long runs. Have you have?
• 1:00:21
  You run in, run in the plus ones of them yet.
• 1:00:23
  No, they're my parent annoys it. I keep telling my Nike guy send
• 1:00:28
  them to the new house that you keep selling to my parents
• 1:00:31
  house. So I'm going home today to get
• 1:00:32
  them and then I race. I race in the A3 for marathon
• 1:00:39
  and my half and my 10K actually so.
• 1:00:43
  But then it's so funny because I still wear my all time favorite
• 1:00:47
  Nike shoes, the Vapor, the 1st edition of Vapor Fly.
• 1:00:50
  How? Many miles have.
• 1:00:52
  They got, I mean, it's from it's Great North Run 2021.
• 1:00:57
  I'd like Poke balls on. It's like, yeah, but I would say
• 1:01:01
  I still sometimes wear them on the track.
• 1:01:04
  You've seen, I don't know if you've seen like Jacob in the
• 1:01:06
  Brits in wearing the old Vapor flies for sessions.
• 1:01:08
  So I think I still say Nike, they are the best shoe they've
• 1:01:12
  ever made. And yeah, but they, I asked like
• 1:01:16
  a couple of years ago, I asked for the last few pairs and my
• 1:01:19
  Nike got, he sent me the last 3-4 pairs in my size in Nike
• 1:01:22
  Europe. So yeah, I've actually gone
• 1:01:25
  through them. Shout out to him.
• 1:01:28
  Yeah, he's brilliant. When you're doing a lot of
• 1:01:31
  training in the in the zoom Flyers as well or.
• 1:01:34
  Yes. So the Zoom Flyers are just
• 1:01:35
  outside, but it's a bit noisy. But the Zoom fly is what I do.
• 1:01:39
  So for example, now my I have an LT1 session on Tuesday morning,
• 1:01:43
  then LT2 an evening, the LT1 on the road I wear Zoom flies.
• 1:01:47
  And then on a Thursday, like yesterday, it was like 18.1 K,
• 1:01:50
  10 per with the same elevation in Sydney, but 250 meters of
• 1:01:54
  elevation. That's where it also wears zoom
• 1:01:56
  fries. So it's a bit of like you start
• 1:01:59
  LT1 pace and you get closer towards 10K pace for the last
• 1:02:01
  two reps and you can still run really quick in the Zoom fry.
• 1:02:04
  But they are heavier than the Alpha and Vapor Fly.
• 1:02:07
  And that's why I like wearing them, because then when I put on
• 1:02:09
  the A5 for races or fast sessions, it feels brilliant.
• 1:02:14
  And you are not one of these people who prefers the A1 over
• 1:02:17
  the A3. No, I'm a big fan of the A33 to
• 1:02:20
  be honest. Like I mean, I've run, I run
• 1:02:23
  2846, I run my marathon and my bath half all in them.
• 1:02:27
  I think I can't really remember the ones, but I think that
• 1:02:30
  they're they're my favorite alpha at the minute.
• 1:02:34
  The vapour floors I wear for like a fast 5K.
• 1:02:37
  They are they're lethal. And I also have the I think
• 1:02:42
  they're in here, but I have the they might not.
• 1:02:45
  Oh no, this is no. They're St.
• 1:02:47
  Fly, the new Street Fly. I haven't worn them yet, but
• 1:02:51
  they are crazy. They look crazy.
• 1:02:55
  Yeah, they'll either do you like some damage or get some
• 1:02:58
  strength. Weren't.
• 1:02:59
  They yeah, yeah, yeah. If you wanted to, if you have a
• 1:03:02
  mile race on the roads are done, you might not be able to walk
• 1:03:06
  after but the most perfect shoe. You'll RIP it.
• 1:03:10
  You just mentioned that bath half.
• 1:03:12
  That was one of one of your comeback races, wasn't it?
• 1:03:14
  I remember. I wasn't.
• 1:03:16
  From that. I would say that's my, that's my
• 1:03:18
  comeback race of showing people I'm back because it was like
• 1:03:23
  last year, like I had a good result, like I came top 20
• 1:03:27
  British trials for the cross country for Euro Charles.
• 1:03:30
  I ran 1346 for the 5K and just around me and I'm doing the same
• 1:03:36
  meet next week. But again, it's like I'm never
• 1:03:38
  going to really show the world for my 5K.
• 1:03:41
  I'm never going to be like I'd love to run quicker for the 5K
• 1:03:44
  and that's my aim because ultimately I need to do a lot
• 1:03:47
  more speed work in order to make marathon pace feel easier.
• 1:03:50
  But that didn't still like you see the time people running now
• 1:03:53
  like 4 bricks ran under 1315 at the same meet and it's like, OK,
• 1:03:58
  like a 1340 not going to be anything special.
• 1:04:01
  And then by winning Bath Half and running 6220, it was
• 1:04:06
  annoying because I was going for some like I didn't know at the
• 1:04:08
  time, but the the world champs, you know, like in Riga, they've
• 1:04:12
  been before in the world road running champs.
• 1:04:15
  To get in you have to break 62 minutes.
• 1:04:18
  And I was on it. And in the last K at Bath half,
• 1:04:22
  they send you up back up the hill.
• 1:04:24
  So I went 255, my last K was 310 and I literally lost $0.15.
• 1:04:29
  And I was saying to myself, OK, if you take out the celebration
• 1:04:32
  and that hill, I've got time, but I'm going to Valencia at the
• 1:04:36
  end of the year to really go for 61 something because a lot of
• 1:04:40
  Brits go out there. But Bath half was like, you
• 1:04:44
  know, when like have you ever done a race where you just, I
• 1:04:47
  feel like nothing can stop you, Like you just you just on
• 1:04:50
  something. And it's like, yeah, it was, it
• 1:04:52
  was one of them. Like I just felt untouchable.
• 1:04:55
  And as soon as I base my, my coach, actually, he comes
• 1:04:58
  everywhere. Like he goes within us
• 1:05:00
  everywhere. Like he calls me.
• 1:05:02
  That's what he's basically a second father.
• 1:05:04
  He calls me 4 times a week. It's, it's crazy how much he we
• 1:05:08
  call, but he, he goes to me like he was, it was a Sunday morning.
• 1:05:14
  It started like 10 AM. He had to look after what he's
• 1:05:17
  like daughter was had a sleepover or something.
• 1:05:19
  So he had to leave at 87 AM from his house or no, no, no earlier
• 1:05:25
  like 5 or 6 in the morning parked because he lived in bath
• 1:05:28
  before parked somewhere. He ran into the half.
• 1:05:30
  He stood, stood with me at the start line, made sure I was all
• 1:05:33
  right and everything, waited until we finished.
• 1:05:36
  I think he said he cried almost a little bit.
• 1:05:38
  He as soon as I finished, he had to get back home to go pick up
• 1:05:42
  his daughter or her son. So he ran back to the car and he
• 1:05:46
  said on the way home, he's never really done it before, but he
• 1:05:49
  was playing like absolute like crazy bangers singing in the
• 1:05:53
  car. So yeah, it's just the moments
• 1:05:58
  for that. Because you see, like my parents
• 1:06:00
  and my girlfriend, my girlfriend's mum just come to
• 1:06:03
  my, I take the piss out of her, but come to my races, not hers.
• 1:06:06
  So I think she has two other brothers, but I'm definitely a
• 1:06:09
  favorite and they were all there as well.
• 1:06:12
  And you just see, like especially my parents, my
• 1:06:15
  girlfriend, they've been through absolutely everything.
• 1:06:18
  And like, you know, me being back home, like for example, I
• 1:06:23
  went on holiday with my parents and my girlfriend.
• 1:06:25
  I walked out with three restaurants because there was
• 1:06:27
  too much food when I was really struggling back in 2021.
• 1:06:31
  And they've been through it all. They've been through such bad
• 1:06:34
  times with me and my dad even like he said, it was one of the
• 1:06:38
  best days of my his life because he literally saw how much it
• 1:06:41
  meant to me and him. And he was just like, yeah,
• 1:06:44
  it's, it's complete. And I think after that race, I
• 1:06:47
  think people are like, OK, now he's he's back.
• 1:06:49
  Like he's back. There's still a long way to go
• 1:06:53
  because I want to be better than I ever was and I'm still not at
• 1:06:55
  that level. So but I'm going to do it in a
• 1:06:58
  slow manner. I told my my agents like I'm not
• 1:07:02
  pushing it. I'm not going over the step.
• 1:07:04
  I'm making small improvements because and every time I made a
• 1:07:07
  big improvement like World Half, I got injured, whereas now I've
• 1:07:11
  run 6220. I ran fastest time with Rd.
• 1:07:14
  Relays. I ran a 211 within six weeks and
• 1:07:16
  ran a 1420 little park run on trails within six weeks.
• 1:07:20
  I did those four races and then two weeks ago I ran 2846 for
• 1:07:24
  10K, just Berlin City Knights. If you had asked me to do all
• 1:07:29
  these three years ago, I would have probably been injured after
• 1:07:31
  each one, so it's stepping right direction.
• 1:07:34
  Do you think all the lactate stuff is helping you keep things
• 1:07:37
  under control? Would be sensible.
• 1:07:39
  Yes it's it's helping me with blood tests as well because I
• 1:07:42
  have more protein because I hated them before.
• 1:07:44
  But yes, I'm pissed off because I tried to clean it the other
• 1:07:47
  day and it's saying error 6. So I haven't used it for the
• 1:07:50
  last two sessions, but it's just keeping me in check and showing
• 1:07:54
  where my heart rate needs to be. And another thing it shows
• 1:07:57
  whether. So, you know, sometimes your
• 1:07:59
  lactic can be really low if you haven't fooled enough that day.
• 1:08:02
  So for example, if I know when it's really low and if it's
• 1:08:05
  really low and I'm still building back or it's like a
• 1:08:08
  number, it shouldn't be. And then like in the next few
• 1:08:12
  days, I'd really need to concentrate on eating.
• 1:08:15
  So it actually has helped me in that recovery and I've used it
• 1:08:18
  for the last year and like touch wood, but I haven't had an
• 1:08:21
  injury. So one thing I've implemented in
• 1:08:25
  my training has prevented me from getting injured is
• 1:08:27
  something I'll stay for, stick for.
• 1:08:29
  Two questions. One, are you supported with the
• 1:08:32
  STRIPS or are you spending like half a mortgage on them?
• 1:08:35
  Yeah, I just bought 75. The other, it was £175.
• 1:08:39
  It was not. I don't even know where to like
• 1:08:43
  who's what. I have a funny story, but I buy
• 1:08:46
  from like Habdirect and it's my second lactic monitor because
• 1:08:49
  the first one, I had it for two weeks, only two weeks.
• 1:08:53
  I put it on the side of the track.
• 1:08:54
  But there's a group at the track who they're like 10 to 15 year
• 1:08:59
  old kids who wear spikes in the middle of winter with their
• 1:09:02
  coaches and run 260 meter sprints backwards.
• 1:09:06
  So we have one lane and they are running springing at you and
• 1:09:09
  what they do, they stepped on it.
• 1:09:11
  One of them stepped on the bloody thing.
• 1:09:12
  So that was £350 worth for two weeks.
• 1:09:16
  I was fuming. So I should have invoiced the
• 1:09:19
  coach, sorry. Should have invoiced the coach.
• 1:09:24
  But then it's hard because you don't, I know, like the guys I
• 1:09:28
  trained with, I know there's a lot, none of that.
• 1:09:29
  It was under my jacket. So basically someone stood on my
• 1:09:33
  jacket and I'm like, come on, that's that's not fair.
• 1:09:35
  You can't stand on someone's jacket.
• 1:09:39
  And the damage they did, like I saw, like it was completely
• 1:09:42
  cracked. I'm like, a shoe probably can't
• 1:09:44
  do that, whereas a spike can really probably.
• 1:09:46
  So, yeah, I was not happy. And I messaged them and sent
• 1:09:50
  them a photo and I'm like, look, come on, someone stood on it and
• 1:09:53
  they're like, I'll give you 10% off or 5% off.
• 1:09:55
  I'm like what, £15? Like, so let's buy a new one.
• 1:09:59
  But this one's been last a lot longer.
• 1:10:02
  The second question I was going to ask on the date is have you
• 1:10:06
  seen the Coffee Club podcast with Ollie Ho, Morgan McDonald
• 1:10:10
  and is it Amish? They've interviewed Andreas
• 1:10:15
  Almgren, you know the Swedish guy who just ran OK and he is
• 1:10:19
  massive on the lactate. He's been using it since 2019
• 1:10:22
  and his like knowledge is insane.
• 1:10:24
  I recommend you go and check that one out.
• 1:10:26
  Well, look at what record he's achieved.
• 1:10:29
  So like like yeah. And yeah, I'm, I use it for
• 1:10:32
  like, so for example, I do say 4 sessions a week.
• 1:10:34
  I will use it every session and and yeah I will definitely give
• 1:10:39
  that listen as well. Just use it kind of like midway
• 1:10:44
  and at the end now that you kind of sussed out the feel or.
• 1:10:47
  I don't normally use it midway, I only use it at the end because
• 1:10:50
  I like. So when I do all this I do like
• 1:10:52
  my job. Like I do steady state jobs in
• 1:10:55
  between, but on the track I'll do it midway and afterwards
• 1:10:59
  where it's like I just leave it at home and I just come back to
• 1:11:04
  and take it because normally the last Rep is also a bit quicker
• 1:11:07
  anyway or like the same sort of speed.
• 1:11:09
  So I should really take it twice.
• 1:11:13
  But I haven't found the best like loop to do it.
• 1:11:16
  So it's like where is that? The track?
• 1:11:17
  It's really easy. Whereas when I do my LT1 stuff
• 1:11:20
  and stuff, it's on the road so you go out and back basically.
• 1:11:23
  So when I'm on the track I do do it more than once.
• 1:11:26
  Yeah, cool, because I guess that at first you probably need to
• 1:11:30
  test more often as well while she sorts out like how that
• 1:11:34
  black tape reading should feel and stuff.
• 1:11:36
  Yeah, exactly. What else was I going to ask?
• 1:11:41
  I guess then I've seen on Instagram you're racing next
• 1:11:44
  week. Is it a 5K?
• 1:11:45
  Yeah, so it's the one where I'm I'm on 1346 last year we've got
• 1:11:50
  my mate pay starts through like 819 through 2K, but I've
• 1:11:54
  requested like a 812 because my old time PBS 1338 and I feel I
• 1:11:59
  feel like I can give it a shot. And yeah, I'm just going to put
• 1:12:03
  it all out there and go for it and try and then I have great N
• 1:12:06
  2 weeks later. But I was like, why not?
• 1:12:09
  Like it's in, it's in the track in the middle of nowhere.
• 1:12:14
  But it's, it's a cool event. Like my mate organizes it.
• 1:12:16
  There's AK going on and my friend ran like 2:18 2/19 for
• 1:12:21
  the K last year at it. So yeah.
• 1:12:24
  And it's nice as well because it's like, you know, you're
• 1:12:27
  going to races, you're getting pushed around.
• 1:12:29
  Whereas it's like everyone knows it's me going for it on the back
• 1:12:32
  of the pacer. So it's I'm going to give a low
• 1:12:35
  1340 shot and if I get through 3K in about 812, my PB could be
• 1:12:40
  on. So we'll have to give that a go.
• 1:12:42
  Yeah, class. Well, will it be live streamed
• 1:12:45
  or not? It might, it might be on like
• 1:12:48
  the Tony Pani track Classic. So if you follow them on
• 1:12:50
  Instagram, they live streamed it last year, but it's literally
• 1:12:54
  someone standing at the finish line.
• 1:12:55
  So you see me go fast like it's just like that.
• 1:12:59
  Someone's on Instagram live, will you get on the bicarb for
• 1:13:05
  that? Yes.
• 1:13:06
  So I took it last week and let's just say I used the I went to
• 1:13:10
  the toilet four times before it, but I felt great.
• 1:13:15
  I don't know whether like it was also a case of me picking myself
• 1:13:19
  up before the session, but yeah it's it I think it does help.
• 1:13:25
  I, I know my mate took it for 15 K and let's just say he couldn't
• 1:13:30
  actually physically get to the podium because he had to use the
• 1:13:32
  toilet. But yeah, so it's, it's a case
• 1:13:37
  of just trying it again tomorrow, trying it because I'm
• 1:13:41
  training with an S and then if that all goes well again, using
• 1:13:45
  it for us. Yeah, even if it was just like a
• 1:13:47
  mad coincidence, you'll just have to stick with it now.
• 1:13:50
  Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
• 1:13:52
  Last question then, I guess is the long term goal to kind of
• 1:13:56
  build everything towards LA slowly?
• 1:13:59
  Yeah, it's, it's The thing is it's like say I stay in a sport
• 1:14:04
  and reps like say I run my fastest time at 40, like Abdeena
• 1:14:08
  gated in London, That's another thirteen years.
• 1:14:12
  I have another 3 Olympics, 3, even 4.
• 1:14:14
  Like it could almost be 4. So the one coming up, it's like
• 1:14:19
  I'm going to try to get there. And then I think it's Melbourne,
• 1:14:22
  the era, the time after. Is it 2032 Brisbane?
• 1:14:25
  Sorry, I really really want to push for that and it's like I
• 1:14:31
  want the main aim is to get to LA and I think if I didn't get
• 1:14:34
  injured the times I assume think the times are stupid though,
• 1:14:38
  especially when every offence then but every Kenyans getting
• 1:14:42
  done and they're not making the time slow.
• 1:14:43
  I just don't understand, but I think they'll go off like for
• 1:14:47
  example, British athletics had like AB standard by two away,
• 1:14:51
  for example, world champs. And I think they'll just do the
• 1:14:52
  same thing because a meal came forth and he he wouldn't have
• 1:14:56
  even had the world champs standard this year.
• 1:14:58
  So they had to make it 2O8 secret medal.
• 1:15:01
  And again, a lot of the Africans don't actually know how to race
• 1:15:04
  if it's not a time trial. So it's yeah, it's just a phase
• 1:15:08
  of getting better and better and trying to get under that.
• 1:15:10
  I think two O 8 would probably get me in, but then you have to
• 1:15:14
  look at the other Brits. So that's the time I'll go for.
• 1:15:18
  That's a good point, to be fair, because like the standard keeps
• 1:15:20
  getting lowered because all these Africans are like jogging
• 1:15:24
  20 fives and stuff and then a couple of years later they're
• 1:15:27
  getting popped. Well, then what is horrible is
• 1:15:29
  to say they either get rid of Kenya or they make the standards
• 1:15:32
  slower. Like they can't keep making the
• 1:15:35
  standards faster. And then all the guys who ran
• 1:15:37
  the time are getting done for drugs.
• 1:15:39
  So I don't understand how that makes how that's even allowed.
• 1:15:43
  Really. All they need to do is say, OK,
• 1:15:46
  208, just keep it 208. You look at the number of
• 1:15:49
  athletes who've actually done it and haven't cheated and just
• 1:15:52
  said, look, you run 208, you go you're the top three guys in the
• 1:15:55
  country. You run 208, you go not because
• 1:15:58
  at this rate, it'll probably be 2:05 in the next Olympics.
• 1:16:01
  And then 2-3 years later, 50% of them were on drugs.
• 1:16:05
  So, and I kind of understand as well if you are in that position
• 1:16:09
  as horrible it is. But if you're an African and you
• 1:16:11
  can make money, money from running and then you see these
• 1:16:14
  times you're like, well, if any everybody else is doing it, why
• 1:16:17
  not? So it's not even as horrible it
• 1:16:19
  is. It's not even their fault.
• 1:16:21
  It's the it's almost the association how they allow like
• 1:16:24
  the pharmacies that everyone to actually have have it.
• 1:16:27
  They don't and they're agents. The agents don't help them.
• 1:16:30
  So I think it needs to come from the agents first.
• 1:16:33
  This is a slightly pivot, but whilst you're in Uganda there
• 1:16:37
  was like no kind of sniff of it. No, I I promise like I would
• 1:16:42
  have if if I saw something I would have left straight away
• 1:16:45
  and I wasn't like of course I have to but I wasn't living with
• 1:16:49
  them. But I was allowed to walk around
• 1:16:51
  everywhere. I saw nothing like and
• 1:16:55
  thankfully none of them have been done and it would break me
• 1:17:00
  quite hard. I think I would get really,
• 1:17:02
  really upset because it would be your sense of almost NN sending
• 1:17:05
  me somewhere where and even if they didn't know, but you know,
• 1:17:10
  everyone almost has an inkling and it would have made me very,
• 1:17:12
  very upset, but I saw nothing. I like swear, I'm sorry and
• 1:17:17
  everything. I broke my my body broke.
• 1:17:19
  If I took it, I probably wouldn't have broken.
• 1:17:25
  I actually got worse, so something wasn't right.
• 1:17:29
  You, you were literally anti doping.
• 1:17:31
  Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
• 1:17:34
  Yeah, because even last thing then was when you consider the
• 1:17:37
  standard you, you run that 211 and now it's 26 there.
• 1:17:41
  Are you like already? There's but I was looking, it's
• 1:17:43
  like, I don't even think the Olympic, I think the Olympic
• 1:17:47
  record is just under it and it's only run once.
• 1:17:51
  But then you look at, like I said, you look at every single
• 1:17:53
  athlete who's getting done. It's like how is fair and I
• 1:17:57
  think I think Seb Cohen like the organization, I think they will
• 1:18:00
  make it start making itself. No, he's not even charge.
• 1:18:02
  Whoever's in charge now will make it so just because they are
• 1:18:05
  seeing the number of athletes and even for people need to make
• 1:18:08
  a presence on social media and you have seen on social media
• 1:18:11
  people making an absolute hissy fit of it and say, well, she's
• 1:18:15
  going to have to see what happens.
• 1:18:18
  And again, with all the dope and stuff, it feels like there's a
• 1:18:20
  lot of noise from like fans and even athletes now as well.
• 1:18:25
  So you just hope that like the the regulatory bodies are kind
• 1:18:28
  of like doing something in the background.
• 1:18:30
  Yeah. All right then, I reckon we'll
• 1:18:33
  wrap it up there. Thanks.
• 1:18:35
  Thanks very much for your time the chat.
• 1:18:39
  That went by really quick. It was nice.
• 1:18:43
  And I reckon the listeners will take like so much from that and
• 1:18:46
  hopefully they can follow your journey as well.
• 1:18:48
  Maybe a lot of Brits would have been aware of you, but maybe
• 1:18:51
  some Australians might have a new person to follow now.
• 1:18:54
  Yeah, no, I agree. I'll have last thing, I'll have
• 1:18:57
  a story about Stewie Mcswain. He, he raced me, he raced me at
• 1:19:01
  Great North Run and he basically, and then a few years
• 1:19:06
  later he went to Riga for like thing, the 5K and he, my parents
• 1:19:10
  went. And of course my parents being
• 1:19:12
  parents, they went up to him and said, oh, surely, surely not
• 1:19:14
  Australian, not not they have no clue who he is.
• 1:19:17
  And they go up to him and say, oh, they talk and say, oh, my
• 1:19:19
  son's a runner and he's probably thinking, oh, great, just a
• 1:19:22
  random, random kids like who cares?
• 1:19:25
  And they go up to him and say, Oh, it's Jake Smith.
• 1:19:27
  And surely the first thing he says is he tripped me off at
• 1:19:29
  Great North Run and I, I was fuming when I had that.
• 1:19:34
  But yeah, that's. Did you trip?
• 1:19:37
  No, he just wasn't good enough. I beat him.
• 1:19:41
  He had just done the Olympics. Fair play to him.
• 1:19:44
  And he ran 6250 for his debut half, which is very, very good.
• 1:19:49
  But I think he thought I tripped him.
• 1:19:52
  Prove it. But the tough time himself at
• 1:19:54
  the minute he's he can't get going over in Europe.
• 1:19:57
  I'm a massive fan of his, like even his mindset to it.
• 1:20:00
  He just doesn't care. And yeah, it's just maybe it's
• 1:20:04
  just this year. You should struggle this year.
• 1:20:06
  Hopefully next year he comes back at it because he has run,
• 1:20:08
  he's run 729 or something for 3K It's disgusting.
• 1:20:12
  So good for so long. I know, so we'll have to see.
• 1:20:17
  All right. Actually last, last question,
• 1:20:19
  who would you pick be for the 1500 this year, the men?
• 1:20:23
  'S beef Tokyo. Wait, who would I pick beef
• 1:20:26
  with? No.
• 1:20:26
  No, no. Who would you?
• 1:20:27
  Who would you pick be to win? Oh, sorry.
• 1:20:32
  Oh, you can start a fight if you want.
• 1:20:36
  I know who my beef was, but. Go on then.
• 1:20:40
  George Mills. Not a fan.
• 1:20:44
  He's he's been coughing it from the coffee club as well for
• 1:20:48
  falling over so much. Yeah, he's.
• 1:20:51
  Not a fan. Yeah, not a fan.
• 1:20:55
  He's just like, I can't say spacious.
• 1:20:57
  My dad's, my dad said this. He's just, he's just like his
• 1:21:00
  dad, like because, you know, his dad played football for Leeds or
• 1:21:03
  something. Like, yeah.
• 1:21:05
  Big Leeds, I think rivalry. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:21:09
  Not fun. Oh, I'm just gonna go.
• 1:21:13
  I'm going to go. Who should I go?
• 1:21:17
  Let's still allow us. Let's just throw it out there.
• 1:21:20
  Allow us to take the dog. It's it's so cool because
• 1:21:23
  there's like literally 8 of them who could win it.
• 1:21:26
  Potentially you just don't know, and I think that would be like
• 1:21:30
  that story of him winning would just be insane.
• 1:21:35
  Cat amongst the pigeons. I like it.
• 1:21:37
  Yeah, exactly. All right, mate, Legend, thanks
• 1:21:41
  again. Awesome talking to you and I'll
• 1:21:44
  hopefully talk soon anyway. Yeah, we'll stay in touch.
• 1:21:47
  Speak to you soon. Yeah, see you later.
• 1:21:49
  Good luck.