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More on the MOU and Grievances · United We Scan

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Welcome to the United We Scan Podcast, the podcast by rural
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Thank you. Now here are the hosts of the
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United We Scan podcast. Welcome back everybody.
0:56
You missed a great free show. Wow.
1:05
OK good reason for them to to join our discord is the free
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show. Yes, it's now.
1:11
It's now time to close down the chat right now.
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Hi guys. We are back again this week.
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Yeah, for those of you missed the pre show, it was AI have
1:26
tears, let's put it that way. All right, we are episode 99.
1:32
We're going to talk a little bit more about this MOU that came
1:34
out this past week and cover some more on grievances.
1:39
I do believe so. On that note, Bill, how was your
1:43
week? Oh, it was tedious.
1:46
Of course we had the midweek and that was fun.
1:49
I, I've, I've clocked in 11102 responses to my posting and I've
1:58
gotten oh so many. I am that I just, I stopped
2:02
responding to him. I mean, my wife says, well, what
2:05
are you doing? Then I said, you know, I'm
2:07
responding this time. And she goes, can you finish
2:09
what you started? And I'm like, oh, oh, sorry,
2:11
hold it. But I, I'm just like, you know,
2:16
overwhelmed by how pissed off the people are.
2:20
And a number of them have really responded positively about
2:24
getting involved and getting the delegates selected, finding out
2:28
who these these people are that we keep sending to the National
2:32
Convention year in and year out and changing it up.
2:35
Because that's the only way you're going to change this
2:38
national board completely to representing the the craft is by
2:42
changing the old heads are on there and have been lodged in
2:46
there until in, in eternity. And there's a, there's a rumor
2:52
coming around and I won't discuss it here, but we can
2:54
discuss it after in regards to another person coming back next
3:00
year. And it's another old head.
3:02
And it's like, no, we don't need any more of the same pride from
3:07
these people who have not carried a route in 20 plus
3:12
years. I'm telling you, a lot of lot of
3:16
stuff has been, you know, negative in regards to paying
3:19
the money back. A lot of people have justified
3:22
the money being paid back, you know, in regards to the route
3:24
adjustments there. There is no justification for it
3:27
that you know you screwed up bite the bullet because you have
3:31
not paid us millions in hours above 57.36 for the past six
3:37
years since the advent of Amazon of suck it up buttercup and you
3:43
know, kiss my ass. The National board should never
3:46
considered this MOU in the 1st place.
3:50
Had the grandbaby, had the grand dog all week, that that was fun.
3:55
And yeah, got our first snowfall on Friday morning.
3:59
So winners here. Buckle up, butter cups.
4:02
James, how about your week? Well until this MOU came out it
4:06
was a normal week and when this MOU came out and I read it I was
4:11
already upset with it because you are literally robbing 2 to 3
4:17
Peters to pay 1 Paul. You are stealing money from
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multiple carriers who got their routes cut who deserve that
4:26
money to support the carrier that bid on the newly formed
4:31
regular route that was an aux route.
4:33
And that's literally all this MOU is doing besides holding
4:38
routes from being cut for 52 weeks.
4:40
That was the biggest part of it. But I got so upset at it and so
4:45
did a lot of carriers like Bill. I was receiving constant
4:48
messages. I was receiving tons of input
4:53
and support in terms of after the midweek bonus episode
4:58
announcing my candidacy for the presidency that I created my own
5:03
presidency campaign Facebook page.
5:06
It is LinkedIn, our group chat groups, the you know, we scan
5:11
podcast group and my Royal Mail carriers United group.
5:15
And so if you guys want to help with that support that, I'd
5:20
greatly appreciate that. And then I just continued to
5:24
work like I normally do. And then Friday rolls around and
5:30
I get to my one of my reload points and shut the truck off,
5:35
go to restart it and the alternator is not working
5:38
anymore. I shut off all the all the
5:41
electrical draws in the truck, then come back, then come back
5:45
like it normally does and called for a truck and had to wait half
5:50
an hour for them to bring me a new truck.
5:52
But that's how this job goes. Then this weekend came up and I
5:57
was working on my laptop and the battery started going bad on me
6:01
again so I had to go out and buy a new laptop.
6:05
Luckily I found a very good deal on one, you know, being Table 2
6:09
and all. Kristen knows exactly what it's
6:10
like to search for a laptop or a computer that is within your
6:15
budget capabilities and gives you enough processing power to
6:19
do what you need to do. But I did really well on that,
6:23
so hopefully we can turn around and make this union strong
6:27
again. We're building a fighting NRLCA
6:30
now like the NALC has the build of fighting NALCS.
6:34
We're building a fighting NRLCA. So let's do that together.
6:38
How was your week, Kristen? Oh my week wasn't too bad.
6:43
Typical week for the most part. Amazon was late one day, so I
6:47
went and ran a second trip and I had two second trips this week
6:51
actually. One was for a mis thrown package
6:54
that tossed to City Road, and then the other was Amazon came
6:58
in late. And so looking at the size of
7:02
the boxes, when I got back off off the road, I said yeah, let
7:05
me go run some of these because otherwise tomorrow I won't get
7:09
everything in. So it was actually a good
7:11
decision because the next day. Yeah.
7:13
And other than that, like I said, pretty normal week.
7:16
I did find out that one of my customers is in Hospice care
7:19
right now and unfortunate. And then the other one whose
7:23
mail had been piling up, I'd always been, you know, told her
7:27
in the past that if it went, you know, more in a few days, I'd
7:30
bring it up to her and check on her.
7:31
So she had medication in there. So I Friday, I pulled her mail
7:36
and went up to the door, check on her.
7:38
Thankfully, she was fine. She's just having a lot of
7:41
issues with getting out to the mailbox and she in the past has
7:46
not wanted a hardship. Well, her mind has changed now.
7:49
So I will be dropping off the paperwork for her for a hardship
7:53
tomorrow. But other than that, I said just
7:56
pretty much a average week for me, nothing major.
8:00
So just one of those things, yeah, I did field a lot of
8:03
messages and my phone was blowing up a little bit too this
8:07
week. But you know, you take it as we
8:09
take them and talk people down when we have to or we uplift
8:13
them when we have to. That was my week.
8:17
Not too bad about. I, I, I like the one message I
8:21
got to give somebody a call and I gave them a call and, you
8:25
know, I don't know personally, they're from out in the Midwest.
8:28
And an hour or 47 minutes later, we ended the conversation.
8:33
And I'm telling you it, it, it's like hearing every Horror Story
8:37
in all, all one episode. And I'm just like, God, this
8:41
shit's got to change. It's really got to change.
8:44
I mean, there's people with 30 years in saying, you know, it's
8:47
never been this bad before. It's not going to get any
8:51
better, you know, not under this regime.
8:53
I. Know I talked with a carrier for
8:56
an hour or two on the same, same thing, you know, and deciding
8:59
whether they want to quit, pull their union dues or what, you
9:03
know, and, and basically talking them off the ledge and trying to
9:07
tell them that hey, good things are coming on the horizon.
9:11
We need to stick together. We need to band together.
9:13
We need to take basically take back our union from people who
9:19
don't understand what it's like to be down here on the ground.
9:24
They haven't ever scanned a package.
9:26
They haven't ever dealt with Amazon, but they're making
9:30
decisions for everybody that does.
9:32
I, I think the most disheartening thing, James, is
9:36
the, the atmosphere in the offices.
9:38
So, you know, I mean, I sit there and just say, well, how
9:42
many times we have to tell people they can't mandate you to
9:47
help on another route. If your regular carrier, they
9:50
can ask you, you can volunteer, but they can't mandate you.
9:56
And these people are putting comments and they're saying
9:58
we're mandated by district. And and you know, after, you
10:02
know, the 46 response in a week, I'm sitting there going, am I
10:06
talking to to the wall or something?
10:08
Are are they not getting the message?
10:10
Are they not talking to their fellow carriers in regards to
10:13
this? Because this is spelled out in
10:16
the MOU, the same MOU that's going to take money off
10:20
approximately 3000 carriers. And MOU is a contractual
10:25
agreement. It's a memorandum of
10:27
understanding between two parties.
10:29
It's legally binding and it says specifically you must volunteer
10:35
short. That's tough shit.
10:36
Let the supervisors get out there and deliver it better put
10:40
clerks on it or city carriers. If you don't want to do it, OK,
10:47
they can't force you. And if you're on your your drop
10:50
day, they they specifically can't force you to do it then
10:54
then and I've I've seen that eight times this week.
10:57
And I'm just like, ladies and gentlemen, please, you know,
11:01
read the contract, read the demos that that are out there.
11:06
Six O 3 the Elm. The carrier called me today at
11:09
9:00 this morning in my office. Because they have a medical
11:14
condition, they're restricted to 8 hours work.
11:16
It's agreed upon time for the doctor and the post office and
11:21
now the post office wants to access him to other offices
11:26
where he can do other work. And I said, well what are they
11:30
doing? Well it's a 50 mile rule.
11:32
I said no. A50 mile rule is specifically
11:35
for RC as or if you're accessing carriers.
11:39
And since you're so far up in the seniority chart, you're not
11:43
getting access before 12 other people.
11:45
But they're trying to get this guy out the door and he's not
11:50
going to cooperate. And and he is at the point where
11:53
he is going to file an EEO, but he's not going to cooperate
11:57
until he gets full complete clearance from the doctor's for
12:02
his leg operation time. He'll work his eight hours, and
12:06
this is all precipitated by the fact that political mail didn't
12:10
get delivered on the other two hours of his route during the
12:13
the the elect election cycle. It's not his problem.
12:18
You have the right to manage mismanagement.
12:20
You're good at it. And you're trying to, you know,
12:23
hobble this carrier and threaten him into transferring him to
12:28
outside offensive. It's not going to happen.
12:31
But this is the stuff that goes on.
12:33
And in my office, we have a local steward and a former ADR
12:38
of which both are of no use. Thankfully, this gentleman was
12:43
through this before when the leg was first operated on and won
12:47
the case. And he'll go back and beat him
12:49
again. But this is the stuff you have
12:51
to know, you have to learn. I just, I, I'm just so
12:54
disheartened by, you know, that the continued harassment of, of
13:00
our craft and the fact that the national Board, the NSS, you
13:05
know, nobody is helping us. Yeah, and we.
13:08
Shouldn't and I Yeah, that. We shouldn't have to be fighting
13:12
this. Management should be trained and
13:15
know better. And at this point, I believe
13:19
instead of them actually just not knowing it, I believe it is
13:25
malicious, intentional and unilateral because it's been out
13:31
there long enough that everybody should know it by now.
13:37
In management, at the minimum, carriers, I can understand some
13:40
of them not knowing, but management, that's impossible.
13:45
District managers know these things.
13:47
Regional managers know these things.
13:50
It should be all done. This came from the top down and
13:55
as we've seen, management in this agency is top down.
13:59
They even admit to it in the UPMA magazine from August of
14:05
2024, where the the national editor wrote an article titled
14:12
The Dilemma of Top Down Decision Making, where they talk about
14:17
postmaster supervisors, impoos and even district managers have
14:22
very little flexibility when it comes to making decisions.
14:25
So that tells you right there that even the postmasters union,
14:30
their association, recognizes that they aren't being able to
14:35
make the decisions that best support their offices or their
14:40
districts. Yeah.
14:41
They literally are there with a title but hardly can ever make a
14:47
decision for the office anymore on their own.
14:50
Oh, it's the typical, you have the responsibility, but you have
14:54
no authority. Hello.
14:59
And, and, and the, the worst part of it is that a lot of
15:01
people, they have the authority, but they hold no responsibility.
15:06
And they, they think that's their authority, that they're
15:10
entitled to make these statements and judgments that
15:14
are in direct contravention to our contract that, you know,
15:18
general work principles and to say, well, this is from
15:22
district. We didn't sign the contract with
15:24
District. We signed a national agreement.
15:28
So you can take all that little piss and shit from District and
15:32
blow it at your ass because of the fact that it holds no water.
15:36
All right, so let's get things going here.
15:39
What did you want to bring up on this MOU again, James?
15:42
So I. Wanted to bring a little bit
15:44
more information in on it with further research that we have
15:48
done. Do you know the biggest thing
15:52
that I want to tell people is this is from wall understanding
15:56
that I have only effects pay from October 19th on from when
16:03
the latest RECS evaluation went into effect.
16:07
It doesn't affect people all the way back to April as we had
16:10
first assumed considering the wording that they had used in
16:13
the MOU itself with having the management perspective that gave
16:17
us more clarity on the time frame that they we have.
16:22
So as it stands right now, it is currently 3 paychecks affected
16:27
for those carriers that are getting cut or added to, it
16:31
could be up to four or five depending on when they actually
16:35
convert your route back to following the MOU.
16:38
But it also effects relief carriers.
16:44
It says in the MOU those rural routes.
16:48
So it doesn't matter if you are the regular on the route or the
16:51
relief carrier on the route, it affects both of you.
16:55
The only way a relief carrier does not get charged for this in
17:02
any instance would be if they worked over 40 hours and went
17:06
hourly. Then it would have no bearing on
17:08
them. So I did some calculations and
17:12
this is literally yearly salary divided by 26 weeks at the gross
17:18
amount. For Table 2 step one, anywhere
17:23
from going from the 48 to 42 to 44 K area because that's about
17:30
the range that they would put them to would be anywhere from
17:34
$290.00 a paycheck to $435 a paycheck for table one.
17:41
Step 12 same range 42 to 44 K from your 48 would be anywhere
17:48
from $420.00 to $631.00. Now this is a very rough
17:55
calculation. Other factors may apply.
17:58
These are just rough numbers off a simple calculation, but I
18:02
wanted to put that out there as an idea.
18:04
James. They cut them to 40 threes, not
18:06
40 twos. 43 is the lowest they'll cut them.
18:09
I. I know, but that's it's there
18:12
just to give the range and I do know carriers that get close to
18:18
that number all the time. But that's just what my
18:23
calculations were on that. And I just wanted to put it out
18:27
there that it's not 5 or 6 years that they're going back just to
18:33
October 19th for those that made comments about that.
18:38
It'll affect the leave replacements.
18:40
If they were under 40 hours for the week so they were paid the
18:43
evaluation, it would affect them.
18:47
If they were over 40 hours which kicked them into hourly with
18:51
overtime, then it would they would not be affected.
18:54
And that was a a sneaky little thing to slide in there all
18:58
affected carriers because of the fact that doesn't distinguish
19:02
between career and non career. Yes, I.
19:05
Did hear through the Grapevine that it may be November 30th
19:10
when that goes into effect. Again, that was through the
19:14
Grapevine, so can't say yes or no that it'll be November 30th
19:19
unless there's direct language for that.
19:21
That was just what I heard to the Grapevine and.
19:24
It always take take anything that we say or anybody else says
19:30
with a grain of salt and do your own research.
19:34
The best education you can get on this stuff is to look it up
19:38
yourself. Pregnant.
19:39
Pause. Awkward silence, but yeah, it it
19:45
would make sense that they did it before the Christmas overtime
19:48
period. Could you imagine how
19:50
complicated that would get? Yeah.
19:52
Well they better get their asses in gear then, huh?
19:56
Yep. So, yeah, I mean, it's roughly
19:59
going to affect, I think I heard about 3000 routes, so it's not
20:06
widespread, but those 3000 routes were fairly widespread.
20:10
So I mean, that's still three to 6000 potential carriers that
20:17
could possibly be affected in one way or another.
20:21
Going one way direction or the other.
20:23
Actually, actually more because it could be the carriers
20:26
themselves and the Subs. That's what I said.
20:29
Three to six I. Mean yeah, it could.
20:32
Be even more depending on depending on if the carrier were
20:36
the primary or not on the route or if it was a different carrier
20:40
each week. So it could be even more than
20:42
that and that's still 3000 too many carriers. 1 carrier harmed
20:48
by this alone is too many carriers taking money out of
20:52
carrier's pockets is too many carriers affected.
20:56
Especially. Especially with how long it
20:59
takes them to give back pay. They are so quick to issue a
21:03
letter to man. But oh we'll get to it when we
21:06
get to it. On paying carriers what they're
21:09
rightfully owed. My if I would have if, if this
21:16
MOU was something that could not have been avoided at all, I
21:20
would have at least said you cannot issue a letter of demand
21:23
to the carriers until all carriers have been paid their
21:25
back pay first. This.
21:27
Mou should have never been considered, ever.
21:30
Exactly. It never should have been
21:31
signed, never should have been even implemented.
21:34
There are other avenues that could have been taken in this
21:38
situation to prevent routes from being cut a second time after
21:41
the first cut. Well, it.
21:43
Doesn't say anything about being cut a second time.
21:45
Exactly. So you've opened the door for
21:48
management to abuse carriers even more and didn't think of
21:52
the implications of it when you signed it.
21:54
This is exactly the problem that we have.
21:56
We have short term gains for long term losses.
22:00
We have hedge fund managers running systems here because
22:05
that's how hedge funds work. They do short term gains for
22:08
long term losses. Well, I mean, honestly, the,
22:11
the, the one biggest way to avoid the pay adjustments and
22:17
the letters of demand would have, would have been being
22:21
proactive and having a similar MOU go into effect when the
22:27
route cut started saying that they would need 52 weeks of data
22:32
before they would be fully evaluated.
22:36
Because for the sheer fact. And like I said in the midweek
22:39
episode, they had, they had already been telling us at all
22:43
these conferences and, and, and conventions and whatnot that,
22:47
you know, it's a good instance that good probability that the
22:52
routes will go back up with the, with the fall mini mail survey
22:55
for the sheer fact of the 52 week data.
22:58
So if they're already aware that this is the probability, why
23:02
couldn't they have put an MOU together and gone to the post
23:05
office themselves and said, hey, with this 52 weeks of data,
23:09
there's a probability of these routes going back up or going
23:13
back down. Why can't we put a stay on this
23:17
now instead of, you know, like I said, being proactive rather
23:22
than reactive, but obviously that wasn't going to happen in
23:25
this scenario. That's.
23:27
My, that's my biggest problem with this though.
23:30
You have carriers out there that did this work for free to get to
23:36
these evaluations and now that they got to these evaluations,
23:40
which allowed them to be cut, the continuation of that pay at
23:45
that level is remittance for the work that they did the previous
23:49
52 weeks. And now you've taken away that
23:53
remittance pay from these carriers, 234 carriers depending
23:58
on how many routes you cut to bring that ox route up to a
24:01
regular route. So that way this one carrier
24:03
would be back up to the regular standard of a route.
24:08
We're break back at the 66%, take a loss for 30% to gain, but
24:15
carriers are now being paid more accurately for the work that
24:18
they do. Not for the work they have done.
24:23
And the disheartening thing about this is we're now in the
24:26
12th year of implementing reps and we have these 3 Nobel Prize
24:32
winning engineers who have, you know, thought this through.
24:37
And yet we've had to make changes every single month of
24:42
the year since the inception of it, since the first mini mail
24:46
survey, because we changed standards, we changed it.
24:50
Now you're no longer getting credit for the pars labels,
24:53
unscanable parcels are, you know, discretionary, walking it
24:58
to the door, scanning it once and and then leave the scanner
25:02
at the truck. Yet you got all these things
25:04
that you know they didn't think about because you're fucking
25:07
engineers and you're sitting at a desk and you're working
25:11
probability tables on a computer.
25:14
Should have had your ass out in the streets for a month at a
25:17
time on all types of different routes to figure out what we
25:22
actually do and how we do it if. They would have just been
25:25
transparent with the whole process and showed us everything
25:28
and on top of that, turn around and before we had the mini meal
25:31
survey, did a standard mail count with the mini mail survey
25:36
and showed us the numbers aligned with the mail count
25:40
versus the mini mail survey or the mini mail survey with the
25:44
head carriers probably would have accepted it a lot better,
25:48
but they don't think about what could actually be beneficial to
25:52
the craft. They just think about what's
25:55
beneficial for management. How much easier can we make it
25:58
for management? Management doesn't even have to
26:01
go out and do route inspections anymore.
26:04
They can do it from a computer watching what your scanner does.
26:07
They don't have to even get out of the office anymore.
26:10
They can sit there and just do all the tasks that their their
26:13
district manager, their POOM, or whoever sends them to do all day
26:17
long. Sitting in an air conditioned
26:19
office. Well, we have carriers that are
26:20
out there at 110° or -10°, you know.
26:25
What's real ironic about the situation is Ronnie Stutz, when
26:30
we postponed that last September mini mail survey to start the
26:34
system off, said specifically that they still hadn't received
26:40
transparency from the post office on how the data was being
26:45
collected, and they still went ahead and did the mini mail
26:48
survey. You admit in print that they
26:52
have no transparency and you went along with it anyway.
26:55
If that's not complicity with the United States Postal
26:58
Service, I don't know what is. Yep.
27:02
I know I had carriers in my office.
27:05
One of them saw everything online on Wednesday, was asking
27:08
about it. Another carrier each route got
27:10
all. I don't know, anxiety kicked in
27:13
and got all scared and where I'm just like, it's not affecting
27:16
anybody in this office. Yeah.
27:18
It's. You, you have to remember it's,
27:21
you know, and I kind of get it at the scenario because we do
27:23
have one route that's a 4748 K. And I kind of gave an example of
27:28
what the MOU was talking about to say if this route had been
27:32
cut and it went back up, this is what would happen.
27:37
Or, you know, or the route that was because it's a separate zip
27:41
code. So an aux route that was spun
27:44
off of it for it being cut. And they did this or did that.
27:48
This is what, you know, this is what it's about.
27:52
And once I explained that to people, they were just like, oh,
27:55
OK, so it's not affecting us. No, it's not affecting you.
27:58
But luckily I was able to put my office at Bay.
28:03
So carriers that are going to get a letter of demand for this
28:08
do have a right to file a grievance on it.
28:14
And the grievance should be, did management have the right to
28:21
issue this letter of demand? And I know carriers are having
28:27
enough problems balancing their own budgets that management's
28:30
trying to now balance the Postal Service budget problems on their
28:34
back. But one of the things that you
28:37
can do if they find that it is quote UN quote accurate is to be
28:43
on a payment plan. And I hate suggesting that any
28:46
carrier pay back money to the Postal Service.
28:49
But that is the last resort you have is to try and limit the
28:54
damages that you get. And I would try to find the
28:57
least amount of money per paycheck you can pay back
29:00
because you need that money more than management does.
29:04
You need that money more than the Postal Service does.
29:07
And I would do everything in my power to find a way to limit the
29:12
amount of damage you get. OK.
29:14
Would you guys agree? Yeah.
29:15
I agree, but just be known. Yes, you everybody has a right
29:19
to file a grievance on any letter of demand that they
29:22
receive. Just know with this one, if the
29:25
calculations are correct, it will not be waived.
29:29
So. Because your national officer
29:31
has agreed to it. All right, let's move on.
29:35
Yes, please. OK, So we're going to talk about
29:37
more on grievances, but I kind of wanted to bring something up.
29:41
Harrier that I talked to this week, who in the past has not
29:45
been, they are not a local steward in their office.
29:50
In the past, you know, they did not stand up for themselves.
29:54
They did not, you know, it was a kind of do what they say, didn't
29:58
know where to find the information.
30:00
And let's just say this carrier now is standing up not only for
30:05
themselves, but looking out for other carriers to the point
30:10
where other carriers in the office are approaching them and
30:13
asking them for information and so they can file on their own.
30:16
All it takes is one person to step up and protect themselves
30:24
and even just, you know, to let management know, hey, you're
30:28
supposed to be, you know, it's supposed to be done this way.
30:30
Here's the language for it. Here's, you know, not even
30:33
necessarily having to file a grievance in some circumstances,
30:36
but at least pointing out the correct language to management.
30:40
If there's a grievance, absolutely go and file it.
30:42
You know, if you're a grieved grieve, you know, but just for
30:46
to see one person who normally in the past did not stand up for
30:49
themselves, standing up for themselves.
30:50
And not only themselves, but other carriers in the office,
30:54
now other carriers are being motivated to stand up for
30:57
themselves as well in this office.
30:59
And I want to say kudos. That's all it takes.
31:02
If you have one of those offices where nobody stands up, be that
31:06
person that stands up and others will start to follow.
31:10
Definitely once, once they see that you're with, you know,
31:16
representing the contract and, and, you know, representing
31:20
yourself and not taking this shit anymore, it'll embolden
31:24
them to do the same. Well, if she can do it, I can do
31:27
it. If he can do it, I can do it.
31:29
Lead by example. I just want to say that was, you
31:33
know, they, they, they were having a rough day and they
31:35
weren't sure on on something. So they just kind of needed
31:38
somebody to talk to and kind of vent and kind of get their
31:41
bearings again. So they called me and, and let
31:44
me know of everything that was going on and what they've done
31:47
and what was, you know, outs coming at them with other
31:51
carriers approaching them, which management does not like either.
31:54
And I said, oh, well, guess you're doing something right
31:56
then. But yeah, I it's like, take it,
31:59
you know, as a compliment that they are seeing the change and
32:03
they want to be part of the change and that's what you got
32:05
to do and. Remember, if you're standing up
32:07
for the contract in your office just by yourself alone, you're
32:12
standing up for that one portion of the contract is helping the
32:16
rest of the carriers in your office, as they say.
32:19
If not me, who? If not now, when?
32:23
If you're not willing to do it, who else would be?
32:27
Can you convince them to stand up for it?
32:29
If not now, when are when are you going to take the step to
32:33
protect the craft and protect yourself from it?
32:37
Because everybody has the tools available to them to do this and
32:43
if you need help with that, reach out.
32:46
We are more than willing to help point you in the right direction
32:50
because this craft has been walked on for way too long.
32:56
Management does not respect the contract that their national
33:02
managers signed with the union. These net, these district
33:07
managers could care less. They're quote UN quote protected
33:12
in their position unless enough comes down from the locals and
33:18
to national. So it's got to come from both
33:20
directions, from the locals sending up grievance settlements
33:24
and national seeing those grievance settlements and coming
33:27
down on the district for it. That's the only way to get
33:31
district manager to actually pay attention to the contract and
33:35
follow the contract. And I understand some people say
33:38
we've had it too good for too long.
33:40
Well, it's time for us to say that the time for us taking it
33:45
is over. The time for us to stand up is
33:48
now. Because if you don't stand up
33:51
now, will you ever stand up? Will you ever be able to stand
33:54
up so? If you don't stand up now,
33:56
you've lost that opportunity and every opportunity lost, it is
34:01
wasted. And and it just it really just,
34:05
you know, thickens quagmire that you're in.
34:09
You've got to start is. The more you let management get
34:12
away with it, the more management's going to get away
34:14
with it, and it's never going to get better.
34:17
It'll just get worse. You.
34:19
Have tools available to you. You have the grievance form, you
34:23
have the 1767 safety hazard form, you have union
34:28
representation that is supposedly there to help you.
34:33
And they should be. And if not, go above them.
34:37
There is a chain you have to follow, but you can go above
34:40
them. Everybody should be fighting for
34:42
this crap, whether you are the national officer or the local
34:48
carrier with no union official capacity other than being a
34:54
union member. And, and you don't even have to
34:57
be a union member to do that, James.
34:59
Yes, and being a union member, I'm meaning that everybody is a
35:04
union member. Some are just dues paying, some
35:07
are not. We all are required by federal
35:10
law to be a union protected member of this craft, even if
35:14
some people call them names. Nobody would call them
35:17
freelitters and scabs, especially the president, The.
35:28
Thing I really wanted to get into is what are some pitfalls
35:33
in the grievance process that you guys know?
35:36
Kristen Bill The Grievance Process When carriers file a
35:39
grievance, what are some of the biggest pitfalls that happen?
35:44
Let's start with the most obvious documentation.
35:48
You know, whether it's actual printed documentation or it's
35:53
getting a statement from the carrier near you, whether it's
35:57
getting a a signed document for a direct order.
36:00
Documentation is is the biggest pitfall and not just for the
36:05
carriers themselves, but also for their union representatives
36:09
too. You know, the, the failure to
36:11
document, you know, a situation or an incident, contractual
36:16
violation, the safety violation, any, anything in regards to
36:21
OSHA, in regards to your, your workplace environment, you know,
36:26
if you fail the document, this is not a situation where you go
36:31
into a grievance meeting and it's he said, he said, she said.
36:38
It's a matter of what you're bringing in that is provable
36:42
evidence of the violation and it has to be documented.
36:48
My situation right now with this gentleman, with his injury, his
36:53
documentation is an agreement between his doctor and the post
36:56
office. He's going to win the slam, slam
36:59
dunk because the fact that's in black and white.
37:02
But the fact of the matter is that if, if he just said, you
37:05
know what my doctor said, well, that's not good enough.
37:08
It has to be in writing from the doctor.
37:12
It has to be agreed upon by the post office.
37:15
So documentation I think is is one of the biggest failures that
37:19
a carrier or a a local steward can overlook in regards to the
37:25
importance of winning agreements.
37:27
Absolutely, I was thinking the same thing was documentation.
37:31
Even if it's a hostile environment where a supervisor
37:35
is name calling or you know, just verbally assaulting
37:40
employees, document the date and the time and who said what and
37:47
exactly what they said. And if you can get more carriers
37:51
on board to make that documentation, the better it's
37:54
going to stand. You can't just go in and file
37:56
and say, Oh well, supervisor so and so was telling me do F off
38:01
and and leave it at that without any supporting especially
38:05
witness statements in this instance.
38:08
And it comes back to that, he said, she said, he said, she
38:10
said it's going to go absolutely nowhere without supporting
38:12
documentation. Kristen was there when they told
38:15
me to fuck off. But then you go to Kristen and
38:19
it's 3-4 days later and Kristen's thinking about it and
38:22
she doesn't want to get involved.
38:24
The day it happens when you go approach that carrier and say,
38:27
can I get a statement from you? And you know, the comment in
38:31
here about worry about repercussions, you know, you
38:34
can't live in fear of repercussions because A, more
38:39
times than not, they'll come, but B, that's their way of
38:42
suppressing you and controlling you.
38:45
If you don't stand up, it's going to keep happening.
38:49
And I will tell you that I've I've.
38:51
Explained this James people when it happens to Gary right next to
38:57
you and you don't stand up and say something the next time when
39:01
they come after you and you ask Gary to stand up for you you
39:05
know what Gary's going to say no because when I needed you you
39:09
weren't there so each time being a little braver than you
39:14
normally are and do the right thing yes even if.
39:18
They're in their. 1st 90 days. A probationary employee can
39:24
grieve anything except for termination.
39:28
And I will say this with people in their 90 days, if you are a
39:32
carrier who's outside of your probationary period and you hear
39:38
a hostile situation going on next to you, guess what?
39:42
That's hostile for you because it's going on to the carrier
39:47
next to you. Now you're in fear of it
39:50
happening to you. That makes it a hostile work
39:52
environment. You can file agreements for it,
39:55
creating a hostile feeling in yourself because what's to say
40:00
it won't happen to you next? Which makes it a class action
40:03
grievance then. Yes, and takes the takes the
40:07
risk of the probationary carrier out of the loop, takes the
40:12
retaliation off that probationary carrier and
40:16
protects them as well. And guess what?
40:19
After they get off probation and something happens, they're more
40:23
likely to actually stand up with you when you file another
40:27
grievance. The biggest thing any carrier
40:30
can do is protect their brother or sister next to them from
40:34
management. If management starts getting on
40:36
to them and you hear it in your case next to you, walk over.
40:40
Hey, do you need a witness to this?
40:42
Those words alone usually get management to change their mind
40:46
about what they're talking about.
40:48
Usually, not always, but usually.
40:50
And conversely, if you do that, the next time a situation comes
40:55
up, that carrier will be emboldened to stand up for
40:58
themselves as well as you because they know somebody else
41:02
has their back. And that's what this is all
41:04
about, having each other's back. I don't care if you like that
41:08
person or not. It's a matter of respect.
41:12
It's about it's a matter of workplace environment and it's a
41:16
matter of being united together to face this threat to our
41:21
livelihood. Another issue that comes up in
41:24
grievances especially is the steward not knowing what will
41:30
make you whole. We went over filling out the
41:33
grievance and making a statement and things like that, but make
41:37
sure your steward knows that, hey, this is what I want to make
41:41
me feel like you've accomplished something, whether it be peace
41:46
and desist or a monetary financial incentive for them to
41:51
stop doing it. But the biggest thing that
41:54
you've got to do is explain your side in your statement and
41:59
advise, hey, this would make me feel better about this
42:02
situation. Dan Stewart's.
42:04
Your job when you go in there to fight this with management is to
42:08
get that carrier, that hole. And being a local steward, if
42:12
you don't know what you can actually get them in
42:14
compensation, you need to look at what would you want as
42:20
compensation if it was you being affected by this.
42:25
So for instance, let's throw what happened in my office when
42:32
they turned around and worked fueling my vehicle for Amazon
42:36
Sunday. This was an old grievance I had
42:38
a long time ago. Back then I didn't actually know
42:41
the proper procedure to file agreements that I just filed 1
42:44
and worked with my ADR to file it.
42:46
But what I wanted out of that was I wanted them to cease and
42:51
desist, allowing carriers to bring the trucks back without
42:56
full tanks of fuel and a financial incentive to benefit
43:02
to prevent it from occurring again.
43:05
That also compensated me for the extra fueling I had to do that
43:10
week. That's what would have made me
43:12
whole. But in a hostile work
43:14
environment, it's even harder because now you want to remove
43:18
that manager from that office to prevent the hostile work
43:21
environment. Or you want the management to
43:25
cease and desist, allowing certain things to occur, like
43:29
maybe clerks treating carriers like garbage, or a supervisor
43:35
treating carriers like garbage. And you want the postmaster to
43:38
to make the supervisor make statements on the floor
43:42
regarding the joint statements on workplace violence and
43:44
harassment. But as a steward, you want to
43:47
get the best result for your carrier, no matter what it is.
43:51
You've got to find a way to not only make the carrier whole, but
43:57
prevent the situation from happening again in one way or
44:00
another and. I've always found that the
44:02
language immediate cease and desist of this practice and a
44:06
financial penalty for any future violations.
44:11
I always like throwing that in there because of the fact that
44:14
you know it their son when they sign that agreement, they're
44:17
they're bound by that. And in 2018, I pulled eyesight.
44:22
I had the agreement settled in regards to people working off
44:25
the clock and as of 2024 I used it and got every carrier in our
44:30
office paid $200 including city carriers.
44:34
Because the language said all carriers.
44:37
It didn't say rule or city carriers, it said all carriers.
44:41
And you want to talk about a pissed off postmaster?
44:45
I'm. A four year old grievance.
44:48
They had to pay out thousands to 88 carriers and.
44:53
It doesn't matter what manager find it.
45:00
If that grievance is a step one in that office, that grievance
45:06
applies to that office for every consecutive management member.
45:13
If it's further up and it goes to district and it's settled
45:17
there, it becomes a district wide grievance.
45:19
Where it settles affects the offices that are under that
45:23
jurisdiction. So you could have a grievance
45:26
that you filed 10/15/20 years ago that could still apply today
45:31
even though you've been through two or three managers at least,
45:36
at least. But on the we've gone.
45:42
Through supervisors like we go through Subs.
45:45
Now, the last thing I really wanted to get on with grievances
45:48
is when you have a grievance settlement and management either
45:53
does not make the payout on the settlement or management
45:59
violates again. Now a lot of carriers have gone
46:03
and just continued to file the same grievance over and over and
46:08
over. That's there's a problem with
46:10
doing that. You're getting the same
46:12
settlement for each of those grievances because you're not
46:16
escalating the grievance. You're not.
46:19
You're creating a paper trail of the grievance, but you're not
46:23
escalating it. And the only way to escalate it
46:26
is to file a failure to comply with a grievance settlement
46:34
because now you are escalating it.
46:37
Because now not only did they do the violation again, but they
46:42
also violated the grievance arbitration procedure.
46:46
And that's an escalation, the biggest one.
46:49
That I can think of off the top of my head, especially with this
46:53
would fall in with the failure to comply would be those offices
46:57
that file on management not doing the mapping with carriers.
47:02
And then you know, it's settled for management will start
47:06
mapping with the carriers on a monthly basis and now your one
47:10
month goes by, two months goes by, they haven't done that.
47:14
That's a failure to comply. That's not another grievance of
47:17
saying, hey, you're not doing my mapping.
47:20
That is a failure to comply with the previous grievance.
47:24
And anybody who knows me on social media knows that when I
47:29
write my grievances out, I always say, did management
47:33
violate the national agreement or other postal documents when
47:37
management unilaterally means they made the decision by
47:41
themselves to do it intentionally because they knew
47:45
about it, had known about it, or it was in a file in the office
47:50
available for them to look at and maliciously because they
47:54
chose to do so with I'll intent and the ill intent was to cause
48:00
harm to carriers. I used those 3 words most of the
48:04
time because any decision where they violate a grievance
48:10
settlement is unilateral because it goes against the contract.
48:16
Intentional know to follow grievance settlements and
48:20
malicious because it causes harm to carriers and anytime
48:25
especially on the mapping thing when it's the same manager or
48:29
two O 4B or supervisor it is intentional because they knew
48:33
about it. I always use those words because
48:36
it adds more power to it. And I write grievances to go to
48:43
arbitration because I don't know where the union is going to
48:47
settle it. Will the union settle at Step 1?
48:50
I don't know. Will they settle at Step 2?
48:53
I don't know. Maybe it'll go to Step 4, but
48:56
maybe, just maybe, it'll be one of those very, very, very, very
49:00
lucky ones that ends up to go into arbitration where an
49:03
arbitrator has to decide. And when you use those specific
49:07
words, those are target words for arbitration.
49:12
The the follow up with Kristen. On the about the mapping, one of
49:16
the things that you have to do is make sure the language is
49:20
very specific that the mapping is done at end of shift duties.
49:25
Because I've seen the argument that a settlement's been made.
49:30
There was no time frame in regards to when they do it.
49:34
And they'll say, well, we, we didn't know it was supposed to
49:37
be end of shift. We're doing it when you know
49:39
it's, it's most convenient for us.
49:42
It's not a matter of being convenient for you, It's a
49:44
matter of being convenient to the contract.
49:47
That's an end of shift duty and you can put that in the
49:49
settlement. Of the first grievance that
49:51
management will map with the carriers during end of shift
49:55
duties. Monthly language folks.
49:58
Language make for the the. Stewards that are fighting these
50:03
make sure you put your language clear, concise, and finite.
50:09
You don't leave open language like management, may,
50:15
management, shell. Management will use the word
50:20
will is stronger than may. Management will cease and
50:25
desist. Cease and desist is the
50:28
strongest language you can use to go to arbitration.
50:31
It means it stops right now. On settlement, it stops right
50:36
now and ignorance of the law just like ignorance of a of a
50:40
grievance settlement is not very good case for management to to
50:46
preclude saying oh, we didn't know, that's not my problem,
50:52
that's yours and always remember.
50:54
Management will use every material available to them to
50:59
nail you to the wall. It's up to us as carriers and
51:04
our stewards to use every bit of material in existence to nail
51:10
management to the wall like they do us.
51:14
Treat them the way they treat us.
51:16
And always remember, every grievance you file has a
51:20
possibility of going to arbitration.
51:25
Now our, our leader, our national office will tell you,
51:28
oh, we don't like arbitration because we only win 22% of the
51:31
time. Every single arbitration has a
51:33
5050 chance as soon as you walk through the door.
51:37
And the only thing that gives you the cutting edge above that
51:40
50% is your preparation for arbitration.
51:45
And if you aren't prepared for it, that's how you get 22%
51:49
success rate, preparing your grievances.
51:51
Yeah, go ahead now finish what you're going with.
51:55
Preparing your. Grievances at step one is the
51:58
very first step. That is the ultimate point at
52:02
which your grievance has a chance of making it through
52:05
arbitration and winning. Getting the verbiage right,
52:09
getting a settlement option right, putting everything
52:12
together and having every article that matches your
52:16
grievance on that grievance is the best chance you have.
52:21
Because once you get to arbitration, there shouldn't be
52:23
any introducing of new evidence. It should already be in your
52:26
grievance. Another grievance Buster.
52:29
I should say or cause a grievance of failure is the
52:33
timeliness in a grievant has 14 days from either the time the
52:40
incident happened or the time that they became aware, 14 days.
52:46
So you can't just sit on it and then on that 15th, 16th day go,
52:51
Oh yeah, I want to file a grievance on this.
52:54
You have 14 days for a grievant to initiate that grievance.
52:59
That includes discipline, that includes contractual 14 days for
53:04
a grievant to file that grievance and issues that come.
53:08
Up sometimes can be month long issues.
53:12
So for instance, we'll go with the mapping thing.
53:15
You go and you tell management, hey, we got to do mapping and
53:19
they go, well, I'm not going to be able to do that.
53:22
You tell them that on the 24th, you know you have 14 days from
53:26
the 24th to file that grievance. But if it happens and you say he
53:30
says OK, I'll get to it, it comes to the 31st.
53:34
He doesn't do it. He goes, I'm sorry, I couldn't
53:38
schedule it in time. I had all this stuff come up.
53:40
We'll do it in the next few days.
53:42
That's another official discussion with management over
53:46
your grievance. You got to make sure that you
53:48
have your timeline right for the 14 days and and don't don't
53:52
fall. For the the fact that a
53:55
supervisor sits there and says it, like in my case, we only
53:59
have one rule supervisor and and three city supervisors.
54:03
I can't sign that I I'm not a rule supervisor.
54:06
You are a supervisor. You're representing management.
54:08
You are required to sign this. Whether you are a rule or city
54:12
supervisor has no bearing whatsoever on the filing of the
54:16
grievance, and they're not signing.
54:19
It to agree to it, they're signing it to say you filed it
54:23
timely and they can get it to they can get it themselves to
54:27
the right person, to the right manager.
54:31
And if they're not? Willing to.
54:33
Get you in PS Form 8191. That's another grievance
54:37
management is supposed to supply your grievance forms for you and
54:41
if they're not letting you file it at that point, they're not
54:44
willing to accept it. You can file a grievance for
54:48
that as well. Bury them in paperwork.
54:50
What do we do? Bill file, file file and.
54:53
Smile. Anything else?
54:55
Guys person had a comment there. Well, she did.
54:59
Kristen, I always like I. Always.
55:00
Like my office there, there was an asshole Stewart in there that
55:04
had one of those little plastic hanging files on the end of his
55:07
case with 100 copies of grievances in there.
55:11
Yeah, I've got a. Half a dozen copies of grievance
55:14
forms at my case as well. I do too, but I.
55:17
Still make management. Give me one, of course and and
55:24
if they refuse? Well, I've got backup and now
55:26
instead of one you're getting two.
55:29
I'll file file. And smile.
55:32
And I do not. I do not keep my copies of
55:35
grievance settlements for my grievances at the office because
55:39
they somehow have a tendency to disappear.
55:43
I have a file at home for my grievances, and every carrier
55:47
should have a file at home for their grievances, so that way
55:50
management can't make them disappear and you always have a
55:53
copy of them. Yeah, they tend to.
55:56
To to grow legs and walk away when you're out on your route
56:01
there. Was there was even a manager
56:03
that got fired in arbitration for throwing out the carrier's
56:09
steward bag and all their paperwork?
56:15
It took arbitration to get that manager fired and it seems
56:18
that's about it to get management fired is it has to go
56:22
to arbitration lately? Unless they're stealing from the
56:25
post office and then they just move them to another post.
56:27
Office no if if the postal. Inspector catch them, they're
56:31
gone. But if if they're caught by the
56:34
union, they're just moved to another office.
56:36
We we had a a. City carrier that had a postal
56:41
credit card was using it to buy lunches, which is technically
56:44
theft and they they removed them, you know, a 30 day
56:49
suspension without pay. Then he got reassigned to
56:52
another office 30 miles away and, and, you know, was
56:55
basically not ever allowed that again because that's a credit
56:59
card. He had to know somebody.
57:01
Yeah. It's.
57:03
Never a good thing for anybody, no all.
57:07
Right, guys, anything. Else for this evening, pretty
57:10
much what I had on the agenda. Yeah, sounds.
57:13
Good next episodes are 100th. So we got to really prepare for
57:17
that one, have a good celebration for that.
57:19
So hopefully people will join us on our Discord server for the
57:22
celebration. Sure to be a blast.
57:24
You can get that on our Facebook group.
57:27
We have a link for the Discord on there.
57:29
And if you do need help getting there, we have plenty of people
57:32
on the the group page to assist you in figuring that out if you
57:37
need it. I think we are.
57:39
As it'll be starting a few day, you know the so next Sunday
57:44
we're going to go over the Christmas overtime.
57:46
That's always a fun one along with it being the 100th episode.
57:50
We'll see what else we get planned, but we'll definitely
57:54
start out with going over Christmas overtime is that we'll
57:57
be starting six days later. So definitely this is.
58:03
Going to be a sad Christmas for me.
58:05
Yeah, yeah. For Christmas.
58:08
Presents. You're.
58:10
Going to have to go visit all your.
58:12
Customers and wish them a Merry Christmas Bill OH.
58:17
Don't worry about crown gifts. I I got enough crown gifts for
58:20
the next 24 months. Bill needs to wear a bottle a
58:26
month, man, let me tell. You bill needs to wear a Santa
58:29
suit. No, not a Santa suit, a Santa.
58:31
Thong to show. Up with a hat and a white beard.
58:35
Black boots and a thong. Don't nobody ever come up with a
58:38
picture with like that. OK?
58:40
I don't want to see that someone needs a photo.
58:44
Photoshop. Bill's head on on that picture,
58:46
please. Yeah, all.
58:53
Right, guys. So.
58:55
Parting words there James. This MOU is.
58:58
Going to be a bane for a lot of carriers going on for continuing
59:04
on. For the carriers that have
59:06
worked their butts off for years and years for free.
59:10
Get their routes cut after this MOU has been signed and they'll
59:15
still be working for free for the time that their route was
59:19
over 48 after they've been cut and grievances have to be filed
59:26
timely. Make sure you're doing it the
59:29
right way. Get assistance if you need it.
59:33
Contact your designated union representative.
59:36
They're supposed to be able to guide you on that.
59:39
They can't the lifted agreements, but they can help
59:43
you when you tell them I wish to file a grievance on this.
59:47
They're supposed to help you get with them, get help.
59:51
Make sure you're taking care of your fellow brothers and sisters
59:55
because you are the best part of the world.
59:59
Craft every single world carrier out there working their job
1:00:03
daily. Is the best part of this craft
1:00:05
and filing grievance is one way to show management we're all in
1:00:11
this together. Bill, I I have to say that.
1:00:14
This MOU has really rankled my butt because of the fact that,
1:00:20
you know, like James said, you know, we've, we've got
1:00:23
overburdened routes that are working, you know, 60 plus hours
1:00:27
and they have not been compensated.
1:00:30
I personally haven't been an overburden Ralph for six years,
1:00:34
never got paid more than more than OF48K.
1:00:38
And yet the post office found the way to bleed carriers even
1:00:43
more. And the, the short sightedness
1:00:46
by the post office, our union and these engineers is the cause
1:00:51
of this situation. There is not a carrier in in our
1:00:55
entire craft that should pay back one stinking penny.
1:00:58
And I'm embarrassed that the national board signed this MOU,
1:01:03
let alone considered it. And it's an embarrassment that
1:01:06
we have to bear the brunt of their short sightedness.
1:01:11
God bless you all. You're going to have somebody
1:01:13
short week here with Thanksgiving, but then you're
1:01:16
going to get pounded on Friday as usual.
1:01:18
Everybody, you know, just you know what's coming.
1:01:22
So, you know, Josh would say step back, take a deep breath,
1:01:25
step back in, but, you know, enjoy Thanksgiving, you know,
1:01:29
not not for the meal itself, but for the people there that you're
1:01:33
sharing it with and enjoy the company of your family and
1:01:36
friends. You know, you have Friday and
1:01:39
Saturday are going to be hell, but you already know that.
1:01:42
So we're tough. Just be careful, be safe.
1:01:45
Winter weather's moving in. Remember, you are the most
1:01:49
important delivery of the day. Get home to your loved ones.
1:01:53
Kristen, thank you, guys. Yeah.
1:01:55
Definitely stay safe, everybody. Enjoy their Thanksgiving, their
1:02:00
times with their families, their loved ones, their friends,
1:02:03
Whoever your family, extended family is that you'll be
1:02:05
spending time with for Thanksgiving, please enjoy that.
1:02:08
Be safe doing that. When you leave Friday morning
1:02:11
for work, make sure you kiss your loved ones goodbye because
1:02:14
we won't be seeing them again until after New Year's.
1:02:17
I reminded the other half of that this morning and he just
1:02:20
rolled his eyes at me and said, yeah, yeah, I know.
1:02:23
But on that note, guys, stay safe out there.
1:02:27
Take cautions with as the weather's getting colder in many
1:02:31
areas and that unloved 4 letter S word makes his appearance,
1:02:38
which it has in some areas already.
1:02:40
But stay safe and we'll be back next week for our 100th episode.
1:02:46
Happy Thanksgiving, everybody. Hey everybody, it's episode 90.
1:03:02
Nine Kristen, where did you go? Bill cannot hear me, obviously.