Latest / Indie Film Hustle® - A Filmmaking Podcast / IFH 839: The Rodriguez List: How to Make Movies with What You Already Have with Aaron Kaufman & Brian Levin

Transcript

IFH 839: The Rodriguez List: How to Make Movies with What You Already Have with Aaron Kaufman & Brian Levin · Indie Film Hustle® - A Filmmaking Podcast

0:03
Speaker 1: You are listening to the ifh podcast Network. For more
0:07
Speaker 1: amazing filmmaking and screenwriting podcasts, just go to ifhpodcastnetwork dot com.
0:12
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Indie Film Muscle Podcast, Episode number eight
0:15
Speaker 2: to thirty nine. Cinema should make You forget. You're sitting
0:18
Speaker 2: in a theater, Roman Polanski.
0:21
Speaker 1: Broadcasting from the back alley in Hollywood. It's the Indie
0:25
Speaker 1: Film Hustle Podcast, where we showed you how to survive
0:28
Speaker 1: and thrive as an indie filmmaker in the jungles of
0:31
Speaker 1: the film biz. And here's your host, Alex Ferrari.
0:35
Speaker 2: Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Indie Film Huscle Podcast.
0:38
Speaker 2: I am your humble host, Alex Ferrari. Today's show is
0:41
Speaker 2: sponsored by Rise of the Film Entrepreneur How to turn
0:44
Speaker 2: your independent film into a profitable business. It's harder today
0:48
Speaker 2: than ever before for independent filmmakers to make money with
0:50
Speaker 2: their films from predatory film distributors ripping them off to
0:54
Speaker 2: huckster film aggregators who prey upon them. The odds are
0:57
Speaker 2: stacked against the indie filmmaker. The old distribution model of
1:01
Speaker 2: making money with your film is broken, and there needs
1:04
Speaker 2: to be a change the future of independent filmmaking is
1:07
Speaker 2: the entrepreneurial filmmaker or the film entrepreneur. In Rise of
1:11
Speaker 2: the Film Entrepreneur, I break down how to actually make
1:14
Speaker 2: money with your film projects and show you how to
1:16
Speaker 2: turn your indie film into a profitable business. With case
1:20
Speaker 2: studies examining successes and failures. This book shows you the
1:24
Speaker 2: step by step method to turn your passion into a
1:27
Speaker 2: profitable career. If you're making a feature film, series, or
1:31
Speaker 2: any other kind of video content, the Film Entrepreneur method
1:34
Speaker 2: will set you up for success. The book is available
1:37
Speaker 2: in paperback, ebook, and of course audiobook. If you want
1:42
Speaker 2: to order it, just head over to www. Dot filmbizbook
1:46
Speaker 2: dot com. That's film bizbook dot com. Enjoy today's episode
1:51
Speaker 2: with guest host Dave Bullis.
1:54
Speaker 3: On this episode, I have two producers who are absolute
1:58
Speaker 3: rock stars at coming up with all this stuff, and
2:01
Speaker 3: we're going to talk to them today. My first guest
2:03
Speaker 3: is Aaron Kaufman, a producer, writer and director best known
2:06
Speaker 3: for producing Machete Kills and Sin City two with Robert Rodriguez,
2:11
Speaker 3: and he also wrote and directed the film Urge starring
2:14
Speaker 3: Pierce Brosnan. And my other guest, Brian Levine is a
2:18
Speaker 3: producer and writer best known for Playing with Guns and
2:20
Speaker 3: Boys in Blue. They've just produced the new movie Flock
2:23
Speaker 3: of Dudes, which is out with guests Aaron Kaufman and
2:27
Speaker 3: Brian Levine.
2:28
Speaker 4: Hey Eron, Hey Brian.
2:29
Speaker 3: Thanks off coming on the show.
2:32
Speaker 5: Hi, how you doing.
2:34
Speaker 6: Good?
2:34
Speaker 3: Thank you Brian, Aaron, Aaron, how are you, sir?
2:39
Speaker 4: Oh doing well, doing well? Thanks for having us.
2:42
Speaker 3: Oh, well, you know, my my pleasure guys. So, you know, Brian,
2:46
Speaker 3: I just wanted to you know, I guess I'll start
2:47
Speaker 3: with you. I wanted to ask, and it's a question
2:49
Speaker 3: I ask everybody, and that question is, you know, how
2:52
Speaker 3: did you get started in the film industry?
2:57
Speaker 6: Started in the film industry? I started an online an
3:01
Speaker 6: online show in the fall of two thousand and five
3:06
Speaker 6: called The Post Show with two of the guys that
3:09
Speaker 6: I made the movie with, Kester and Jason Zumwall.
3:13
Speaker 4: And yeah, we started just.
3:15
Speaker 6: By putting videos online twice a week and that kind
3:19
Speaker 6: of got us into the industry.
3:23
Speaker 3: So basically, are we discovered by that method or did
3:26
Speaker 3: you sort of just parlay that into something else, meaning
3:30
Speaker 3: that you did you mean, what I'm am I asking is,
3:32
Speaker 3: did were you discovered by somebody or did you self
3:34
Speaker 3: fund your next project rather, was what I was trying
3:37
Speaker 3: to ask.
3:38
Speaker 6: Yeah, we were through those videos. We were picked up
3:43
Speaker 6: for a company called Super Deluxe, which was an online
3:48
Speaker 6: network that was part of Adult Swim and so they
3:51
Speaker 6: had like when they were starting off, they had talent
3:53
Speaker 6: scouts kind of come in the net for people like us,
3:58
Speaker 6: and that's how we were discovered.
4:01
Speaker 3: You know, very cool. You know, I was actually talking
4:03
Speaker 3: to the co founder of The Onion, Scott Dickers, and
4:06
Speaker 3: that's how he was actually discovered. They you know, they
4:08
Speaker 3: were just doing The Onion as sort of like something
4:11
Speaker 3: to do, and it's sort of you know, morphed into
4:13
Speaker 3: something else and then you know, agents and managers were
4:16
Speaker 3: calling him and saying, hey, you know, what else do
4:18
Speaker 3: you have and basically saying, you know, because you guys
4:21
Speaker 3: are actually out there doing stuff and it was a
4:23
Speaker 3: great way to you know, to uh, to find out
4:25
Speaker 3: who's doing stuff and you know, and if they're able
4:28
Speaker 3: to get a network and able to get an audience,
4:31
Speaker 3: imagine what they could do if they had a little
4:33
Speaker 3: money behind them.
4:34
Speaker 6: Yeah, exactly.
4:37
Speaker 3: So you know, just to go to you, now, Aaron,
4:39
Speaker 3: you know, how did you get started in the film industry.
4:42
Speaker 7: Well, I'm a little older, so there was no there
4:44
Speaker 7: was no YouTube at the time. But my first job
4:48
Speaker 7: in entertainment was working at working for Chris Blackwell, who
4:52
Speaker 7: had started Island Records and Island Films, and I was
4:57
Speaker 7: sort of transitioning out of the dot com world which
5:01
Speaker 7: I worked in in my my early twenties, but always
5:04
Speaker 7: had wanted to work in entertainment and got a chance
5:07
Speaker 7: to work with him as he was starting Palm Pictures.
5:10
Speaker 7: And it was kind of interesting time and an interesting
5:14
Speaker 7: uh situation because he was such a great guy and
5:17
Speaker 7: had this great experience having discovered Bob Marley and you
5:20
Speaker 7: two and on the film side, you know, having put
5:23
Speaker 7: out you know, films by Spike Lee and Petron mcdovar,
5:26
Speaker 7: and he just was this you know Mandarin of of
5:31
Speaker 7: all that was good as far as I was concerned.
5:33
Speaker 7: And so I got I got a chance to really
5:35
Speaker 7: get my feet wet and taught a lot of different
5:39
Speaker 7: different parts of the business.
5:41
Speaker 3: And that's very cool, you know. You know, as we
5:44
Speaker 3: talk about YouTube, and I just wanted to mention you
5:46
Speaker 3: know that that's something that you know, I've had other
5:48
Speaker 3: producers on the show, and we we've also talked about
5:51
Speaker 3: that about you know, making your own YouTube show as
5:53
Speaker 3: sort of like a launch pad for yourself, and you
5:56
Speaker 3: know what I mean, And it's sort of about, you know,
5:58
Speaker 3: the question that comes as a lot of people have
6:00
Speaker 3: asked me three email and tweets and all that is basically,
6:04
Speaker 3: well how do you get the money to start your
6:06
Speaker 3: own YouTube show? So it's sort of like this cyclical
6:09
Speaker 3: question that you know, it's always like you know, the
6:11
Speaker 3: chicken or the egg, you know what I mean, It's
6:12
Speaker 3: always your word.
6:14
Speaker 4: And there's not always a they're The part of it
6:16
Speaker 4: is if.
6:17
Speaker 7: You want to become a doctor, that takes a lot
6:19
Speaker 7: of work, but there's a path that you go through.
6:21
Speaker 7: You know, you do this, you take that test, to
6:23
Speaker 7: go to this school, you take these you know, there's
6:25
Speaker 7: a path here that really is not And I think
6:27
Speaker 7: that's what's really frustrating to a lot of people is you.
6:30
Speaker 4: Can't just tell them, oh, this is this is how
6:32
Speaker 4: this happened.
6:33
Speaker 7: I think if you asked Brian, you know, did he
6:34
Speaker 7: expect to become a writer by you know, dressing up
6:38
Speaker 7: his Bob Dylan and having a video go viral, he
6:41
Speaker 7: probably would not have probably was not you know, part
6:44
Speaker 7: of his plan. So so that's one thing is that
6:47
Speaker 7: you have to understand it's really not about having a
6:50
Speaker 7: solid plan, but it is about creating things, you know,
6:53
Speaker 7: So if you have an opportunity to create, create.
6:56
Speaker 4: And that's that's the strongest thing.
6:58
Speaker 7: I mean, even as a producer, you know, as things
7:01
Speaker 7: are pitched to you or things come over, it doesn't
7:04
Speaker 7: have to be you know, I've seen, you know, really
7:06
Speaker 7: rudimentary stuff that you can just tell there's talent behind,
7:11
Speaker 7: and that's that's really enough. I remember before the first
7:15
Speaker 7: Paranormal Activity came out, you know, there were agents showing
7:18
Speaker 7: that movie around to show off the directors, and you know,
7:22
Speaker 7: it was even more rudimentary than the version that came out,
7:25
Speaker 7: but you could tell that there was that there was
7:27
Speaker 7: significant talent there. And that's that's sort of how I
7:31
Speaker 7: would I would say, I would worry a little less
7:33
Speaker 7: about having money to polish everything off and worry more
7:36
Speaker 7: about just making something that's in need.
7:40
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's very good advice, Aaron. You know, just as
7:43
Speaker 3: a quick side note, you know, forever for my listeners
7:46
Speaker 3: who who've listened to some of the past episodes, I
7:48
Speaker 3: actually shot my own TV pilot and I was going
7:50
Speaker 3: to actually put it up on YouTube, and then I
7:53
Speaker 3: was talked out of it by an agent and he said,
7:55
Speaker 3: don't ever put it And he said, go don't put
7:56
Speaker 3: it on YouTube. He goes, let's just you know, shot
7:59
Speaker 3: this thing around. And I didn't sign with that agent,
8:03
Speaker 3: by the way, but not that he really but you know,
8:06
Speaker 3: he was giving me advice at the time, and we
8:09
Speaker 3: ended up. I now, I'm still twyning with the idea
8:11
Speaker 3: of putting it up on YouTube, just because you know,
8:14
Speaker 3: I basically it cost me a hell of a lot
8:16
Speaker 3: more money than I thought it would. But but you
8:19
Speaker 3: could tell that there was a lot of time and
8:20
Speaker 3: effort put into the production, the set design, everything, you know,
8:24
Speaker 3: and I hate for it to just sit on a
8:26
Speaker 3: hard drive, you know what I mean.
8:27
Speaker 7: Of course, I would say, I it's something you're proud of,
8:29
Speaker 7: Definitely put it out. You know, there's there's something to
8:32
Speaker 7: what he was saying as far as being selective.
8:33
Speaker 4: And once you put something out there, then it's out there.
8:36
Speaker 4: So every time someone.
8:38
Speaker 7: Says, you know, hey, we should hire this guy, know
8:41
Speaker 7: that that is going to get looked at.
8:43
Speaker 4: As long as you're fine with that, and you you
8:45
Speaker 4: like it.
8:45
Speaker 7: Enough to be proud of it to put it up there,
8:47
Speaker 7: to absolutely do that. But but do know that you
8:50
Speaker 7: should be somewhat selective because whatever whatever's out there is
8:55
Speaker 7: out there, you know, forever.
8:58
Speaker 3: Yeah, very true, you know. And as we talked about creating,
9:01
Speaker 3: I want to actually mention you know, Aaron, you have
9:03
Speaker 3: a movie out Urge, Yes, and you know you you
9:07
Speaker 3: actually you know, wrote and directed, and I think you
9:10
Speaker 3: also produced Urged, and I wanted to ask, you know,
9:13
Speaker 3: what was the impetus for you to start, you know,
9:15
Speaker 3: start writing and directing your own script.
9:17
Speaker 7: Well, the Urge actually I wrote with Jason Zumwalt, who
9:21
Speaker 7: also wrote on with with Brian's Sorry. I met Jason
9:25
Speaker 7: with Brian on Flock of Dude. They were he was
9:27
Speaker 7: part of the post show. And then I ended up
9:30
Speaker 7: doing early early drafts with Jason, which really helped it
9:33
Speaker 7: to come together. But then ultimately wrote the last thing
9:37
Speaker 7: is two drafts with Jerry Stall who had written Permanent Midnight.
9:41
Speaker 7: So there were I did a lot of collaborators on
9:44
Speaker 7: the script, but I had always wanted to direct, and
9:46
Speaker 7: one of my reasons for taking the job with Robert
9:49
Speaker 7: Rodriguez in Austin. In the first place was to learn
9:52
Speaker 7: production at that level. You know, I had been producing
9:55
Speaker 7: for quite a while.
9:57
Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
10:03
Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
10:06
Speaker 7: But there was no comparison to the experience I got
10:10
Speaker 7: working down a Troublemaker, where you know, we were making
10:12
Speaker 7: a movie every nine months, you.
10:14
Speaker 4: Know, and from the just in the time I.
10:17
Speaker 7: Was there, you know, we we had done two Machete films,
10:20
Speaker 7: the sequels to Sin City, Spike It's For and the
10:24
Speaker 7: UH and and Robert had produced the The Predators remake
10:28
Speaker 7: with with Ed and Brode, so you know, it was
10:32
Speaker 7: non stop production and that that helped me to really
10:36
Speaker 7: build up those chops. But once we had finished Sin City,
10:38
Speaker 7: which was a really large undertaking, it was really more
10:42
Speaker 7: a matter of trying to figure out what I wanted
10:45
Speaker 7: to to direct and and putting it together after that.
10:50
Speaker 3: So I wanted to ask you mentioned working with Robert Rodriguez, Aaron.
10:54
Speaker 3: I wanted to ask, you know, what are some of
10:55
Speaker 3: the things that you learned from him in terms of
10:58
Speaker 3: either writing, production and directing. I mean, because I'm gonna admit,
11:01
Speaker 3: I'm gonna I'm gonna geek out here, Aaron. He's a
11:03
Speaker 3: huge idol of mine, and I mean, I I am
11:06
Speaker 3: just you know, I would love the opportunity to talk
11:08
Speaker 3: to him, and I'm always interested in everyone that could
11:10
Speaker 3: that has worked with him. You know, I've had his
11:12
Speaker 3: cousin on ALV Rodriguez Rochet and you know we were talking.
11:17
Speaker 3: I mean, I could you know, we were just geeking
11:19
Speaker 3: out about movies and everything else. But I want to
11:21
Speaker 3: but you know that that's what was wanting to ask you, Aaron,
11:23
Speaker 3: is you know, what are some of the things that
11:24
Speaker 3: you learned from from working with Robert Riguez.
11:26
Speaker 4: Well, that's a lot.
11:27
Speaker 7: I mean, it's probably its own, its own dedicated show,
11:29
Speaker 7: because I think people don't.
11:31
Speaker 4: Realize he has ah.
11:34
Speaker 7: He has sort of a whole theory of production, which
11:39
Speaker 7: is somewhat different than how everybody does things. So it's
11:42
Speaker 7: like a you know, it's almost like a master's class
11:44
Speaker 7: that you get from from him. But some of the
11:47
Speaker 7: core tenants are the fact that you know, first and foremost,
11:50
Speaker 7: if he likes to work, he likes to produce, and
11:52
Speaker 7: he produces a lot, and that in itself creates a
11:55
Speaker 7: different environment. And I would say that there's an analogue
11:59
Speaker 7: to people that are looking to put stuff on YouTube,
12:02
Speaker 7: is you know, the way that you get great is
12:04
Speaker 7: by producing quite a lot. You know, you're shooting all
12:07
Speaker 7: the time, You're getting acclimated to, you know, to what
12:10
Speaker 7: you could do, what's possible, and that that really helped
12:14
Speaker 7: the confidence you get from knowing looking at a problem
12:16
Speaker 7: and knowing, oh, I know, out of handles.
12:19
Speaker 4: That's that's really important.
12:20
Speaker 7: And he he did that. I mean, he was making
12:22
Speaker 7: shorts he you know, before he made Mariacci. He kind
12:26
Speaker 7: of approached Mariacci in a pretty methodical way in the
12:30
Speaker 7: sense of, you know, he was getting ready for it like.
12:32
Speaker 4: A marathon owner.
12:33
Speaker 7: So that's you know, just producing and producing a lot,
12:37
Speaker 7: I think is one.
12:38
Speaker 4: Two.
12:39
Speaker 7: He also didn't really buy into the whole the mechanism
12:43
Speaker 7: at all. You know, if if there were there was
12:45
Speaker 7: a better idea, if there was a way to do
12:47
Speaker 7: something more simply, he was all for that, you know.
12:51
Speaker 7: And he also if you look at him and Robert,
12:54
Speaker 7: Robert and Quentin, who are very good friends and came
12:57
Speaker 7: up together, they both have this sort of method, you know,
13:01
Speaker 7: it's sort of a thing that they live by, which
13:04
Speaker 7: is you know, they really are focused on what's what's
13:06
Speaker 7: going to be amazing, what's going to be memorable by
13:08
Speaker 7: by an audience, and they really try to minimize everything
13:11
Speaker 7: that isn't So, you know, anything that's that's not you know,
13:15
Speaker 7: going to be memorable or going to be enjoyed by
13:17
Speaker 7: by an audience, they really.
13:19
Speaker 4: Try to cut a lot of that stuff out of
13:20
Speaker 4: their movies. And that's why they're pretty lean and mean usually.
13:25
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I'm always fascinated about how quickly, you know,
13:27
Speaker 3: Robert can get a movie together, and you know, because
13:30
Speaker 3: I mean I know he you know, he wants to
13:31
Speaker 3: make his you know, produce his own stuff. And you know,
13:34
Speaker 3: there's something Robert once said about you have twenty bad
13:37
Speaker 3: movies in you and basically get them out of you
13:39
Speaker 3: as quickly as you can. And that's why he made
13:42
Speaker 3: all those short films, you know, early on in his
13:44
Speaker 3: in his life where it was just you know, he
13:46
Speaker 3: casted his friends and family and you know, just made
13:49
Speaker 3: videos like that and you know, just posted them. I think,
13:52
Speaker 3: you know he I think me and a couple of
13:54
Speaker 3: his DVDs, I think he posted a few of the
13:56
Speaker 3: shorts on the DVD extras. But you know, I wanted
13:59
Speaker 3: to ask you and when when when you were you know, uh,
14:02
Speaker 3: you know, coming up, did you start you know, you know,
14:04
Speaker 3: did you do things like that, you know me, either
14:06
Speaker 3: in high school or in college, did you actually make
14:08
Speaker 3: your own movies and and just sort of you know,
14:10
Speaker 3: like make a ton of like really short movies or
14:13
Speaker 3: and and just try to get you know, a ton
14:14
Speaker 3: of mistakes out of the way.
14:18
Speaker 6: Yeah, I made I did some short films and wrote
14:21
Speaker 6: some short films in uh, in high school, in college.
14:25
Speaker 6: But I went to graduate school for a couple of years,
14:31
Speaker 6: uh for screenwriting, and I think that's kind of where
14:34
Speaker 6: I really just had like a high volume of output
14:37
Speaker 6: and really learned the craft that way.
14:42
Speaker 4: Yeah.
14:43
Speaker 3: Yeah, And and just like Aaron said, I think the
14:45
Speaker 3: best way to uh to actually learn is by doing.
14:48
Speaker 3: And you know that that's you know what even other
14:50
Speaker 3: filmmakers have had on this podcast. Have you even said, you
14:52
Speaker 3: know that's what they did. They literally just went took
14:55
Speaker 3: a camera out in their backyard, uh, you know, and
14:57
Speaker 3: just started making stuff. And you know, one guy told
14:59
Speaker 3: him so to edit by just taking a camera out
15:02
Speaker 3: to his local park and basically just talk just you know, okay,
15:06
Speaker 3: I'm gonna I'm gonna get some video, some footage of
15:08
Speaker 3: the ship coming in. I'm gonna get some footage of
15:10
Speaker 3: these birds. I'm gonna get footage of this. He wasn't
15:13
Speaker 3: focused on telling a story as much as he was
15:16
Speaker 3: just getting used to what's you know, operating a camera,
15:19
Speaker 3: getting used to getting the right footage, you know what
15:22
Speaker 3: I mean, like getting used to editing all that stuff.
15:23
Speaker 7: It's also I think writing is the is the writing
15:26
Speaker 7: is from the biggest example of that, right, because it's
15:29
Speaker 7: so terrifying to write, and the real antidote, you know,
15:33
Speaker 7: to to writing or to be able to write, is
15:36
Speaker 7: more writing, you know, So the the you have to
15:38
Speaker 7: start getting comfortable with, you know, chopping the task down
15:42
Speaker 7: into smaller bites and saying, Okay, you know what, I'm
15:45
Speaker 7: gonna write this character, I'm gonna write this line. I'm
15:47
Speaker 7: gonna write something that you can do and complete and
15:50
Speaker 7: feel good about to move on because it is daunting.
15:53
Speaker 7: But the truth is the only way you get better
15:56
Speaker 7: is by by doing.
15:59
Speaker 4: Yeah.
16:00
Speaker 3: True. And you know, I want to talk to you know,
16:02
Speaker 3: so you know, Aaron, as you're actually making urge, you know,
16:05
Speaker 3: what are some of the things that you took away.
16:06
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, Urge looks amazing. It starts Pierce Brosnan.
16:11
Speaker 3: You know, I I've you know, heard amazing things about
16:13
Speaker 3: working with Pierce, and I wanted to ask, you know,
16:15
Speaker 3: what are some of the things that you learned while
16:17
Speaker 3: making Urge.
16:18
Speaker 4: I mean, tons, Pierce is great.
16:21
Speaker 7: I had worked with him once before on a movie
16:23
Speaker 7: called The Greatest and had met him then and was
16:26
Speaker 7: just very surprised with you know, he's double A seven,
16:30
Speaker 7: so you have one expectation meeting him, but he actually
16:33
Speaker 7: is just a super decent and really genuine guy. And
16:38
Speaker 7: had that movie that I had produced, was there was
16:41
Speaker 7: a first time director on that movie, and he was
16:43
Speaker 7: very kind and and sort of very open to working
16:46
Speaker 7: with her, which is not something that you know, every
16:49
Speaker 7: actor feels comfortable with. You know, sometimes that's a little
16:51
Speaker 7: scary for an actor to work with somebody who's who's
16:54
Speaker 7: a first time filmmaker. I had produced, you know, films
16:57
Speaker 7: for fifteen years, but still step behind the camera as
17:02
Speaker 7: the director for the first time. You're still a first
17:03
Speaker 7: time director, no matter, no matter what. So I think
17:06
Speaker 7: the part of part of approaching appears in the first
17:09
Speaker 7: first point was the fact that I knew what kind
17:11
Speaker 7: of guy he was and that you know, he would
17:13
Speaker 7: come and give give his all, not you know, undaunted by.
17:17
Speaker 4: The fact that this was my first as a as
17:19
Speaker 4: a director. And then I.
17:21
Speaker 7: Learned with him that you know, basically, get someone as
17:25
Speaker 7: good as peers to read your dialogue because it makes
17:28
Speaker 7: you sound like a much better writer if you if
17:30
Speaker 7: you do that, because he you know, it just comes
17:33
Speaker 7: on stage and you're expecting one thing, and he just
17:35
Speaker 7: did something so much better every single take. And so
17:38
Speaker 7: that was that was great. But you have to really,
17:41
Speaker 7: you know, learn to communicate. I think that's for directing.
17:43
Speaker 7: That's that is the biggest and it may sound.
17:46
Speaker 4: Cliche, but it really is true.
17:47
Speaker 7: You know, what ends up happening in on a film
17:50
Speaker 7: set is directors get so And I've seen this as
17:54
Speaker 7: a producer with first time filmmakers, where filmmakers get so
17:57
Speaker 7: overwhelmed because they're being asked million questions and a lot
18:02
Speaker 7: of those questions they actually don't know the answers to,
18:04
Speaker 7: and they feel like they should and that they start
18:07
Speaker 7: to break down and they start to just get nervous.
18:10
Speaker 7: And now a lot of times they'll close down and
18:12
Speaker 7: instead of giving.
18:13
Speaker 4: More information, which is what they really need to do.
18:15
Speaker 4: They give less.
18:16
Speaker 7: And that's the really the biggest and the most fundamental
18:21
Speaker 7: lesson that I learned, And I would certainly talk with
18:23
Speaker 7: other other filmmakers as I produce them to let them know,
18:27
Speaker 7: you know, is that all these people want is to
18:30
Speaker 7: do the best job they can do, So you have
18:32
Speaker 7: to give them the tools to do it.
18:34
Speaker 4: So if they're asking you, you.
18:35
Speaker 7: Know, the scene calls for a gun, what kind of
18:37
Speaker 7: gun do you want? And you actually don't know because
18:39
Speaker 7: you haven't thought about it, that's okay. You can tell
18:41
Speaker 7: them I don't know, let me think about it, and
18:44
Speaker 7: that'll be better than, you know, trying to.
18:46
Speaker 4: Just freeze up or not communicate.
18:51
Speaker 3: You know, that's a very good point, Aaron. You know
18:53
Speaker 3: one guy, you know, one guy I've always heard who
18:55
Speaker 3: knows pretty much every answer that is asked to him
18:58
Speaker 3: is Tarantino. Some people I know that have worked with
19:01
Speaker 3: him have said that he already pretty much has anticipated
19:04
Speaker 3: all these questions, or his vision is either so deep
19:07
Speaker 3: that he already knows exactly what he wants, how it
19:10
Speaker 3: needs to look, all that stuff, And I think that
19:13
Speaker 3: really comes through in his movies.
19:15
Speaker 4: I known Quentin. I've never actually been on set with him,
19:17
Speaker 4: but I know him.
19:19
Speaker 7: I would I would definitely believe that he knows everything,
19:23
Speaker 7: just because he takes so much time and so much
19:25
Speaker 7: care and he really almost writes his movies like novels
19:29
Speaker 7: that by the time he gets on set, I would
19:32
Speaker 7: imagine that he just really really knows. But even even then,
19:36
Speaker 7: you know there and then when you and as you
19:39
Speaker 7: do this more and more you realize as you're writing
19:41
Speaker 7: that you're thinking about production in a way once you've directed,
19:45
Speaker 7: the changes you're writing because now you're writing, you're thinking of, like,
19:49
Speaker 7: on the day, Okay, you know I'm putting a gun
19:51
Speaker 7: in this guy's hand, what kind of gun.
19:53
Speaker 4: Is it going to be?
19:53
Speaker 7: Because you know you're going to ask and asked that question.
19:56
Speaker 7: You know, if it's if you're describing drapes, the idea
19:58
Speaker 7: of what color are those or what extra or those
20:00
Speaker 7: or those.
20:01
Speaker 2: Things, we'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.
20:09
Speaker 2: And now back to the show.
20:12
Speaker 7: When you're first writing and you haven't directed before, a
20:14
Speaker 7: lot of times it's just oh, there's drapes, or there's this,
20:17
Speaker 7: or there's a gun, and you know you're you're moving
20:19
Speaker 7: on to the next thing without forcing yourself to really
20:22
Speaker 7: seek through. I think that whether it's Quentin or some
20:25
Speaker 7: of the other you know, some other great directors that
20:27
Speaker 7: really like Paul Thomas Anderson or anybody who create like
20:30
Speaker 7: a whole world, I think it's because they've thought through
20:33
Speaker 7: all that, all that detail, and they've they've made that
20:36
Speaker 7: feel real, which which helps them moving.
20:38
Speaker 4: Yeah.
20:39
Speaker 3: I've really felt that during Wes Anderson's Grand Budapest Hotel,
20:43
Speaker 3: because I even went out afterwards and I bought the
20:45
Speaker 3: book about the artwork of the film, and I mean
20:48
Speaker 3: you could just tell the layer of planning and creativity
20:52
Speaker 3: in that film. I mean, because every shot looks literally
20:54
Speaker 3: looks like a painting.
20:55
Speaker 4: Yeah, No, everyone's composed.
20:56
Speaker 7: And I mean Wes is obviously known for for that
20:59
Speaker 7: level of almost like fetishistic detail. He also works with
21:03
Speaker 7: some of the best people in the world and and
21:05
Speaker 7: he cares. What I like about West though, is that
21:09
Speaker 7: there are people that can get as really overcome with
21:12
Speaker 7: the detail and forget to tell a story, you know,
21:15
Speaker 7: or forget to really build characters, and he seems to
21:18
Speaker 7: be one of the few people that can kind of
21:20
Speaker 7: do all of those things, you know, his films are
21:22
Speaker 7: so well composed, well, so well designed, and yet they
21:25
Speaker 7: always seem to have a heart to them that that's
21:28
Speaker 7: a really hard balance to make, and I think he
21:30
Speaker 7: does that very well.
21:31
Speaker 4: Yeah.
21:32
Speaker 3: I completely concur And you know, you know, as we
21:35
Speaker 3: talk about you know, making and you know, writing films,
21:38
Speaker 3: and I wanted to you know, talk about, you know,
21:40
Speaker 3: you're the film that both of you produced, Flock of Dudes. Now, Brian,
21:44
Speaker 3: you also co wrote the movie, if if I'm correct,
21:48
Speaker 3: and you both produced the film. So Brian, I wanted
21:50
Speaker 3: to ask, you know, when when you know, what was
21:52
Speaker 3: the impetus for writing you know, Flock of Dudes? Did
21:55
Speaker 3: you know, was there any sort of a you know event,
21:57
Speaker 3: did you always have this idea? Know I you know, so,
22:01
Speaker 3: what was the you know impatuis of creating Flock of Dudes?
22:04
Speaker 1: Yeah?
22:05
Speaker 6: That story just kind of came out organically from hanging
22:08
Speaker 6: out in New York with Bob and Jason and we were,
22:13
Speaker 6: I guess, you know, in our late twenties, mid late
22:16
Speaker 6: midle late twenties, and everybody was hanging out and whenever
22:21
Speaker 6: we would go out, all the other kind of friends
22:24
Speaker 6: of ours would join us, and eventually there would be
22:27
Speaker 6: a dozen, you know, guys going from bar to bar
22:30
Speaker 6: in New York, and we started joking around that we
22:34
Speaker 6: have to just break up with all these guys. We
22:36
Speaker 6: can get rid of them so we're not traveling around
22:39
Speaker 6: in a flock of dudes. And that kind of that
22:41
Speaker 6: joke kind of became the movie.
22:44
Speaker 3: So when you actually sat down, Brian, to write the
22:47
Speaker 3: film was there. You know, do do you subscribe to
22:50
Speaker 3: sort of any method to writing, meaning do you subscribe
22:53
Speaker 3: to Save the Cat? Do you sort of or are
22:55
Speaker 3: you more of like a you know, a mini movie
22:58
Speaker 3: method guy, or do you just you know, sort of
23:00
Speaker 3: just right.
23:04
Speaker 6: Well, to be honest, it depends on what kind of
23:07
Speaker 6: movie I'm writing. So you know, some things are more
23:10
Speaker 6: structured in a conventional react way and some of them
23:15
Speaker 6: are more kind of a.
23:18
Speaker 4: Looser, less structured.
23:20
Speaker 6: For me, it just depends on the movie.
23:22
Speaker 8: Really.
23:24
Speaker 3: So with Flock of Dudes, when you when you sat
23:26
Speaker 3: down to write, you know, since it was based you know,
23:28
Speaker 3: pretty much on your own experiences, you know, did you
23:31
Speaker 3: did it sort of just flow out of you? Did
23:33
Speaker 3: you already know like, hey, look, I know I want
23:35
Speaker 3: this to happen. I know by the end of the
23:37
Speaker 3: movie I want this to happen?
23:38
Speaker 4: Was it?
23:38
Speaker 3: Was it something like that?
23:40
Speaker 6: I think we had a couple kind of big kind
23:43
Speaker 6: of plot points, like the guys breaking up with each
23:45
Speaker 6: other and things of that nature. Oh really, I mean,
23:50
Speaker 6: I think at least with the group of people writing together,
23:53
Speaker 6: with three of us writing, it was just about sitting
23:55
Speaker 6: sitting down and figuring out, hey, you know, what are
23:59
Speaker 6: some interesting and funny things and characters, and then ultimately
24:03
Speaker 6: how can we kind of string us together into into
24:07
Speaker 6: a story that makes sense and has h you know,
24:10
Speaker 6: a solid enough structure that it kind of fits into
24:14
Speaker 6: the realm of a commercial movie.
24:18
Speaker 3: Right, you know, because I've had the writers of Broken
24:21
Speaker 3: Lizard on and that's something they were talking about as well,
24:24
Speaker 3: was that, you know, they would get together, you know,
24:26
Speaker 3: brainstorm an idea, and they wanted to make sure that
24:29
Speaker 3: it was there was actually a story there, you know
24:31
Speaker 3: what I mean, And they wanted to make sure that,
24:33
Speaker 3: you know, they would put that that the story and
24:35
Speaker 3: the structure would be like the bones and then like
24:38
Speaker 3: all the jokes and everything would sort of be like
24:40
Speaker 3: the muscle and the skin, so to speak. Yeah, m hm,
24:46
Speaker 3: So so your Brian, I wanted to ask, you know,
24:48
Speaker 3: how many drafts did you go through Flock of Dudes
24:50
Speaker 3: before you finally said, you know what this is? This
24:52
Speaker 3: is the draft is ready to shoot.
24:55
Speaker 9: Between the very beginning, Well, Block of Dudes is a
24:58
Speaker 9: long process. It had been optioned by a studio and
25:02
Speaker 9: came back to us, and we had multiple drafts at
25:05
Speaker 9: every step of the way.
25:07
Speaker 5: But I would say probably overall we probably did thirty
25:10
Speaker 5: drafts and.
25:10
Speaker 4: Then wow, thirty choice mines.
25:14
Speaker 7: Actually it's actually funny because they had been through sort
25:17
Speaker 7: of a studio development process, and so I came along
25:23
Speaker 7: after that, and I remember sitting with them working on
25:26
Speaker 7: the script, and no matter what you mentioned, they would say, oh, yeah,
25:31
Speaker 7: the like this producer had suggested that before, or the
25:34
Speaker 7: studio wanted to before to the extent where you're like,
25:36
Speaker 7: what if all these you know, characters were chickens instead
25:39
Speaker 7: of people? They would be like, well, actually, you know,
25:41
Speaker 7: the studio had the studio had mentioned that that might
25:44
Speaker 7: be an idea, and so there was no way how
25:46
Speaker 7: many permutations.
25:48
Speaker 4: Had been thrown at them.
25:48
Speaker 7: But I think it kept coming back to the original story,
25:52
Speaker 7: which was this, you know, real relationship between these guys
25:55
Speaker 7: and what I always liked about it was that it
25:58
Speaker 7: was a fun comedy with lots of big laughs in it,
26:02
Speaker 7: but at the core it still felt real and it
26:06
Speaker 7: still felt like it was rooted in, you know, these
26:08
Speaker 7: real relationships, and I think that made it a lot
26:11
Speaker 7: a lot more interesting for me.
26:14
Speaker 5: And that's one thing that I think Aaron did very well,
26:17
Speaker 5: which we have encountered from time to time, but it's
26:21
Speaker 5: not all that common, which is she really recognized the
26:25
Speaker 5: core of the story, which is kind of essentially kind
26:28
Speaker 5: of the emotional journey of the.
26:31
Speaker 10: Lead character, and he helped us really kind of protect
26:34
Speaker 10: that and make sure any you know, encourage us to
26:38
Speaker 10: deliver on that. You know, stories are so in the end,
26:43
Speaker 10: the story is so really fragile that there are a
26:46
Speaker 10: lot of ways that it can go sideways if you're
26:50
Speaker 10: not kind of protecting what's important about it.
26:54
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, that's very true. And you know, this
26:57
Speaker 3: is something I've learned too now from my own experience
26:59
Speaker 3: but also from doing this podcast, is whenever a writer
27:02
Speaker 3: director gets a producer a piece, the singular sort of
27:08
Speaker 3: bonding elements to all good relationships has always been that
27:12
Speaker 3: the producer sees that that that core of that script
27:16
Speaker 3: and he and and he or she actually really really
27:18
Speaker 3: digs that idea, you know what I mean, they really
27:21
Speaker 3: understand one another and that and that's so when the
27:23
Speaker 3: producer goes out and is talking to you know, investors
27:27
Speaker 3: or going to distribute distributors, that they can you know,
27:31
Speaker 3: use that in the pitch and use that as the
27:33
Speaker 3: selling point. But also, you know what I mean, like
27:35
Speaker 3: so that way there, it's not that sort of what
27:37
Speaker 3: we were talking about four before with all the different
27:38
Speaker 3: permeations where it's like, well, what if they were chickens,
27:40
Speaker 3: what if they were that? You know what I mean? Yeah,
27:44
Speaker 3: mm hmm. So, uh, you know, I wanted to talk
27:48
Speaker 3: about you know, so we're talking about producing. I wanted
27:50
Speaker 3: to ask you guys, you know, you know producing uh,
27:53
Speaker 3: you know Flock of Dudes. You know, both of you
27:54
Speaker 3: produced this, and I wanted to ask, you know, what
27:57
Speaker 3: were some of the biggest challenges in in producing something
28:00
Speaker 3: like this?
28:01
Speaker 4: I'm sorry I missed the less the question.
28:04
Speaker 3: What was some of the biggest challenges in producing Flock
28:06
Speaker 3: of Dudes?
28:07
Speaker 7: I mean, I think the flock of dudes you're you're
28:09
Speaker 7: trying there's a couple of things. One you're trying to
28:11
Speaker 7: make a comedy in the independent space, which you know,
28:16
Speaker 7: the independent space is not necessarily that welcoming of this
28:20
Speaker 7: kind of film. You know, if you look at what
28:23
Speaker 7: really gets made in the indie space, it's it's dedicated
28:25
Speaker 7: toward you know, what we'll show at Sundance, what will
28:27
Speaker 7: show at Toronto. You don't really see sort of ribald
28:31
Speaker 7: comedies at those at those festivals. And we were really,
28:35
Speaker 7: at the end of the day, trying to make a
28:37
Speaker 7: commercial comedy that would re enjoyed, you know, sort of
28:41
Speaker 7: outside of.
28:42
Speaker 4: The the indie space.
28:43
Speaker 7: That was sort of one challenge because you're the people
28:46
Speaker 7: that are there, the systems that's there to help you
28:49
Speaker 7: and assist you through the process, there doesn't really exist.
28:52
Speaker 7: You know, this is the kind of movie that would
28:53
Speaker 7: get made by a new line, and we were trying
28:56
Speaker 7: to make it look and feel and and and act
28:59
Speaker 7: like one of those movies, which is great, except that
29:02
Speaker 7: you're really on your own because you're there's just not
29:05
Speaker 7: the sort of in the in sport in the indie
29:07
Speaker 7: world for that, uh, you know, you don't have big
29:10
Speaker 7: festivals that want those kind of comedies.
29:13
Speaker 4: So that's one.
29:15
Speaker 6: Two.
29:15
Speaker 7: You know, we're we're trying to make something that looks
29:17
Speaker 7: like a bigger budget movie on on less uh less
29:22
Speaker 7: less of a budget on a smaller budget. One of
29:24
Speaker 7: the things that we had looked out on is the
29:26
Speaker 7: post show guys had some great relationships in the comedy world,
29:29
Speaker 7: and we were able to populate the film with with
29:34
Speaker 7: with guys that we people really liked. And then once
29:37
Speaker 7: that started to move, then other people started to come
29:40
Speaker 7: on board. You know, it's for like Hillary Duff and
29:42
Speaker 7: Jamie Chung and and uh, you know, even real Leona
29:45
Speaker 7: we're joining at that point because we had Crystalia and
29:48
Speaker 7: Brick Gellman and Kamala and Johnny and all these other
29:51
Speaker 7: people that were really coming up. And this movie has
29:54
Speaker 7: been we made it a little while ago.
29:57
Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our spon, sir,
30:03
Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
30:06
Speaker 7: So I would I would say casting wise, we look
30:08
Speaker 7: like geniuses because now everybody who's in the film has
30:12
Speaker 7: kind of blown up and become huge. But that was
30:16
Speaker 7: the those are the kind of one two uh issues.
30:19
Speaker 7: And then you know you're dealing with the Bob Castron
30:22
Speaker 7: who directed it, who was the first time as a
30:24
Speaker 7: as a director.
30:25
Speaker 4: So you're you're dealing with.
30:27
Speaker 7: Those are not specific to Bob but specific to anyone
30:30
Speaker 7: who's who's making their their first film.
30:34
Speaker 3: So you know, that's actually another producing question I had was,
30:37
Speaker 3: you know, with a cast like that, you know how
30:40
Speaker 3: you know, because they're all doing so many things. Jo
30:42
Speaker 3: Hanna Simone, she's on New Girl. Uh, you know, you
30:45
Speaker 3: have Eric Andre, you have Hilary Duff. You know what
30:48
Speaker 3: was what was some of the biggest logistic issues, you know,
30:50
Speaker 3: just getting all the all these actors together. Was there
30:53
Speaker 3: any logistic issues?
30:55
Speaker 4: There was? I mean there was a lot of just
30:57
Speaker 4: the casting of it.
30:58
Speaker 7: You know, we we ended up normally in a film
31:01
Speaker 7: as a producer, I'm casting directly three or four roles
31:04
Speaker 7: you know that are your sort of bigger roles, and
31:06
Speaker 7: then working with the casting director to to come up
31:09
Speaker 7: with ideas for everybody else. Here we really kind of
31:12
Speaker 7: cast down almost the entire the entire movie. So other
31:15
Speaker 7: than background, there are no like day players on the movie.
31:19
Speaker 7: Everybody are you know, everybody in the in the film
31:21
Speaker 7: is is somebody great?
31:23
Speaker 10: Uh?
31:23
Speaker 7: Not that not that day players can't be great, but
31:26
Speaker 7: you know these are every every single role is is
31:29
Speaker 7: populated by by somebody who we loved and was really great.
31:33
Speaker 7: So you have you know, Jeff Ross in a in
31:35
Speaker 7: a scene, you have Kellen Coleman, you have Timothy Simon's
31:38
Speaker 7: from Veep in a in a really funny scene.
31:41
Speaker 4: So there's the movie kind of just keeps going and going.
31:44
Speaker 7: And for producing wise, we were really excited every day
31:46
Speaker 7: almost because it was like every day we got to
31:49
Speaker 7: work with somebody new and that we admired, Hannibal Baris
31:53
Speaker 7: and you know, just it just went on and on.
31:55
Speaker 7: So it was that that made it pretty pretty fun.
31:59
Speaker 7: But getting you know, doing that was was done as
32:02
Speaker 7: a concerted effort because it was a matter of how
32:05
Speaker 7: do we make this movie stand out? How do we
32:07
Speaker 7: make this movie look special? And and that was on
32:11
Speaker 7: was one of our big ways.
32:11
Speaker 4: Of doing it.
32:13
Speaker 3: You know, Aaron, you mentioned that this was Bob Kastron's
32:16
Speaker 3: you know, directorial debut. You know, when when investors were
32:20
Speaker 3: looking at the movie, did they ever you know maybe question,
32:23
Speaker 3: you know, should we you know, is Bob gonna be
32:26
Speaker 3: able to handle this? I don't mean it the way
32:28
Speaker 3: it sounds, by the way. I just mean that, you know,
32:30
Speaker 3: is there ever a you know, a sort of an
32:33
Speaker 3: issue that someone would raise. We're saying like, well, hey,
32:35
Speaker 3: you know, you know, is there any is there anybody else?
32:39
Speaker 4: You know what I mean.
32:40
Speaker 3: I don't mean that the way it sounds, not.
32:43
Speaker 7: At all, you know, And in fact, it's exactly what happens,
32:45
Speaker 7: I having nothing to do with Bob specifically, just the
32:48
Speaker 7: moment you say first time filmmaker to an investor, it's
32:53
Speaker 7: you know that it's not what you want to hear.
32:54
Speaker 7: No one, no one ever grabs you and says, oh great,
32:57
Speaker 7: that's exactly what I wanted first time director to to
33:00
Speaker 7: lavish my my money off. And the same thing went
33:03
Speaker 7: for me because after flogging Dudes, I directed Urge and
33:07
Speaker 7: I thought, you know, having been in film for so
33:09
Speaker 7: long and having worked on you know, big movies like
33:11
Speaker 7: Lake Sin City, that you know, being a first time
33:14
Speaker 7: director would.
33:14
Speaker 4: Not be as much of a hindrance. But it still is,
33:17
Speaker 4: you know.
33:17
Speaker 7: And really what it comes down to, and I understand
33:19
Speaker 7: it a little bit better now, is that before you direct,
33:24
Speaker 7: you really have no idea what kind of director you're
33:26
Speaker 7: going to be. You can hope, you can think, you
33:28
Speaker 7: can prepare, you can learn, you can watch movies, you
33:32
Speaker 7: can take classes, you can learn theory. All of these
33:35
Speaker 7: things are which you should do, which is great, but
33:37
Speaker 7: none of them really prepare you for what it's actually like.
33:40
Speaker 7: And I've seen it. I've seen people that get behind
33:42
Speaker 7: the camera and they just freeze and it's not for them.
33:45
Speaker 7: And I've seen people get behind it who you weren't
33:47
Speaker 7: necessarily think you were going to be great and they thrive.
33:50
Speaker 7: So that because that's a random That's why I think
33:53
Speaker 7: people get really nervous about it is because they just
33:55
Speaker 7: there's nothing. There's nothing to prepare Europe essentially trusting a
33:58
Speaker 7: producer who says, yes, this person can do this this job,
34:03
Speaker 7: so you have to overcome that, and a lot of
34:05
Speaker 7: ways we overcame. That was the you know who we
34:08
Speaker 7: had on to produce a movie, who we brought on
34:11
Speaker 7: cast wise to to really offset the serious.
34:17
Speaker 3: Yeah you know, and uh, I'm glad that you you
34:21
Speaker 3: you uh, because that's what I'm trying to say, Aaron,
34:23
Speaker 3: was that basically, you know, even when you know, in
34:25
Speaker 3: my own experience, when you know, you put something together
34:28
Speaker 3: like a pitch packet and you you know, you go
34:30
Speaker 3: to investors, you know, that's not something they want to
34:32
Speaker 3: hear first time director. You know, what I mean, because
34:34
Speaker 3: you know, you know, they they sort of they want
34:36
Speaker 3: to know who and I forget who I was saying
34:39
Speaker 3: this to. But that's sort of what the new thing
34:40
Speaker 3: is where it's like even for you know, for any
34:42
Speaker 3: independent film now it's like we want a name director,
34:44
Speaker 3: a named producer, a named writer even you know, and
34:48
Speaker 3: and the cast all has to be sellable so you know,
34:50
Speaker 3: get us people, you know what I mean. And it's
34:52
Speaker 3: sort of putting this whole package deal together where every
34:54
Speaker 3: so it's sort of like you're stacking the deck. So
34:56
Speaker 3: when you go to producers or I'm sorry, when you
34:58
Speaker 3: go to investors, that you can say, well, you know,
35:00
Speaker 3: we're pretty much stacking the deck in your favor because
35:02
Speaker 3: everyone here is willing to work for a little less
35:06
Speaker 3: maybe or you know, is willing to work on this,
35:08
Speaker 3: on this passion project.
35:09
Speaker 7: You're one hundredson right, And I for me, it makes
35:12
Speaker 7: it a lot less fun than it used to be.
35:14
Speaker 7: I mean, you always have to put a package together,
35:16
Speaker 7: but now in order to get something off the ground,
35:19
Speaker 7: you have to you know, it used to be out. Okay,
35:20
Speaker 7: we have one major star who wants to make this movie,
35:23
Speaker 7: and it's a smaller movie.
35:24
Speaker 4: Let's go.
35:25
Speaker 7: Now it's like, okay, well the first and second lead
35:28
Speaker 7: and third and maybe fourth, and we need a name director.
35:31
Speaker 4: And then all of.
35:32
Speaker 7: A sudden, in my mind, you're taking a lot of
35:34
Speaker 7: what's special about indie film in the first place. You know,
35:37
Speaker 7: I grew up in the nineties, and you know, that's
35:40
Speaker 7: when I think New York indie film was really kind
35:42
Speaker 7: of at its height, and you had great you know,
35:44
Speaker 7: you had you know, kids, and you had you know,
35:48
Speaker 7: all these great you know, simple Men and all these
35:51
Speaker 7: other great, great movies that were coming out. And you know,
35:53
Speaker 7: Jim Jarmish and those guys were not making those movies
35:56
Speaker 7: thinking that they needed five main stars to make those movies.
36:01
Speaker 7: And I don't know that their films would have been
36:03
Speaker 7: as special if if they did.
36:05
Speaker 4: So.
36:05
Speaker 7: I do think I understand it because I understand the
36:08
Speaker 7: financing side of things, and I understand why they're they're
36:11
Speaker 7: looking for that. But I would venture to say that
36:13
Speaker 7: the most successful independent films are the ones that where
36:17
Speaker 7: you know, artistree is really at the at the forefront.
36:21
Speaker 3: You know, I had on Chris Jay who from Army
36:24
Speaker 3: of Freshman and he actually made a movie called The
36:27
Speaker 3: Bet and what they did, was they actually crowdfunded a
36:30
Speaker 3: little bit of money, uh and actually took that money
36:33
Speaker 3: and sort of as like a seed investment, and they
36:35
Speaker 3: actually went out to find you know, more money through
36:38
Speaker 3: actual investors. And because that's that they actually had to
36:41
Speaker 3: you know, basically that's sort of like the new model,
36:43
Speaker 3: as he was saying, you know mean, because that's that
36:46
Speaker 3: way he could you know, use that to go out
36:47
Speaker 3: and fly to meet these people or or what you
36:50
Speaker 3: have these meetings or you know, and and you know
36:53
Speaker 3: that they finally got the money and then they you know,
36:56
Speaker 3: if you watch the Bet, you know has like Jake
36:57
Speaker 3: the Snake, Roberts has Rady Ardi Piper in it, you
37:00
Speaker 3: know what I mean, Like those like we were just saying,
37:02
Speaker 3: they're sprinkled throughout.
37:03
Speaker 4: The whole movie.
37:05
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, I personally don't really know how the
37:08
Speaker 7: crowd for sourcing stuff works. I'm interested in it, you know,
37:11
Speaker 7: I've seen some good stuff happen from it. But yeah,
37:14
Speaker 7: I mean a lot of filmmaking is about momentum and
37:17
Speaker 7: so anything that you can use to get momentum going.
37:20
Speaker 7: So if you know, a lot of times we would
37:22
Speaker 7: i would raise you know, seed money or we'd raise
37:24
Speaker 7: development money for a film. If you could do that
37:27
Speaker 7: through crowdsourcing to give that would give you the momentum
37:30
Speaker 7: that you need. And once you have a momentum, then
37:32
Speaker 7: people start to pay attention. You know, if you say, look,
37:34
Speaker 7: we're gonna make this movie maybe, or we're gonna make
37:36
Speaker 7: this movie in October, it's very different. It's very different
37:40
Speaker 7: for agents, and it's very different forecast to wrap their
37:43
Speaker 7: head around trying to come on board.
37:46
Speaker 3: You know, Aaron, if you ever have any questions about crowdfunding,
37:48
Speaker 3: I will be more than happy to answer any questions
37:50
Speaker 3: you may have because I have done I've done it
37:54
Speaker 3: a number of times. I've helped other filmmakers raise budgets,
37:57
Speaker 3: all that good stuff. So even a couple of ourticles
38:00
Speaker 3: about it, which was actually one of them was on
38:02
Speaker 3: Any Film Hustle with Alex Ferrari, who you with, whom
38:05
Speaker 3: you were on the podcast, did yeah so uh so
38:08
Speaker 3: it was on his side, So it's you know, it's
38:10
Speaker 3: it's uh yeah. So if you ever any questions, please
38:12
Speaker 3: let me know.
38:12
Speaker 4: Great.
38:13
Speaker 3: So, you know, guys, I had some fan questions come in.
38:16
Speaker 3: Would you mind answering a few?
38:18
Speaker 4: No, sounds great.
38:21
Speaker 3: My first question you said. My first question comes in
38:25
Speaker 3: from the Good People podcast reviews, which is at the
38:28
Speaker 3: Hippo critics. As the film was mentioned on WTF podcast
38:32
Speaker 3: with Mark Maron as being delayed. What issues did you encounter?
38:37
Speaker 4: Oh? Well, what was can you read the question? I'm
38:39
Speaker 4: sorry that sure, no problem.
38:42
Speaker 3: As the film was mentioned on WTF pod podcast with
38:45
Speaker 3: Mark Maron as being delayed. What issues did you encounter? Yeah?
38:49
Speaker 7: We uh, I think it was he was talking to
38:51
Speaker 7: Eric Andre the the film itself, you know, we we
38:55
Speaker 7: put together and it was put together for really small,
38:58
Speaker 7: small budget, and then we were we cut the film.
39:03
Speaker 7: I was, like I said, I was directing Urge and
39:06
Speaker 7: was able to tick then kind of right before that,
39:09
Speaker 7: come back and work with Bob on another cut, and
39:12
Speaker 7: then really it was just the the vagaries of the
39:15
Speaker 7: current indie space. You know, we were looking for We
39:18
Speaker 7: weren't looking to go you know, we were very proud
39:21
Speaker 7: of the film and we were looking for the right
39:23
Speaker 7: partner for it, and so we had been approached by
39:26
Speaker 7: by a bunch, but their ideas for bringing it out
39:29
Speaker 7: just were not aggressive enough. And then we were lucky
39:32
Speaker 7: enough to connect with stars who have been great to us,
39:36
Speaker 7: and uh, and have have a really great idea for
39:39
Speaker 7: bringing the movie out and doing it theatrically as well
39:41
Speaker 7: as as as V O D.
39:43
Speaker 4: And then and then I.
39:44
Speaker 7: Partnered with Hulu, so the movie will get a much
39:47
Speaker 7: broader uh in premature than than it would have and
39:51
Speaker 7: I think holding out for the right situation was was
39:54
Speaker 7: the best idea. Then after that they had a schedule
39:57
Speaker 7: of when you know what, when the movie would fit
39:59
Speaker 7: in the queue.
40:01
Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
40:07
Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
40:10
Speaker 4: Which took some time as well.
40:12
Speaker 7: But yeah, I think it's it's it's been something because
40:14
Speaker 7: I think a lot of the cast and myself included,
40:17
Speaker 7: we're really happy and proud of the film and really
40:20
Speaker 7: liked it, wanted to see it come out, and the
40:23
Speaker 7: waiting has been a little bit of a of a bomber.
40:25
Speaker 7: But we've reached out now to cast and they're all
40:28
Speaker 7: coming back on board to uh to to help promote
40:31
Speaker 7: it now, which has been great.
40:33
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that that There's another question that came in
40:36
Speaker 3: which actually ties in to what we're just talking about,
40:38
Speaker 3: is you know, do you find it harder to release
40:40
Speaker 3: a film now because the marketplace has gotten a little
40:43
Speaker 3: bit more crowded.
40:49
Speaker 7: Aaron, Yeah, I think I think so, but I don't.
40:53
Speaker 7: I don't know that it's as crowded as it is.
40:56
Speaker 7: There are other options, you know. I think it's it's
40:59
Speaker 7: you saw a glut in the independent film world a
41:02
Speaker 7: few times, right. I think two thousand and six seven
41:04
Speaker 7: was probably one that I can remember specifically because it
41:07
Speaker 7: was like a lot. There were a lot of good
41:09
Speaker 7: movies that came out, and it was we were dealing
41:11
Speaker 7: with a flush of money that hit the independent market,
41:14
Speaker 7: mostly from hedge funds, and it was just creating too
41:17
Speaker 7: much product that couldn't be absorbed.
41:20
Speaker 4: Now, I don't know if it's that. I don't know
41:22
Speaker 4: if that's the issue.
41:23
Speaker 7: I think the issue is just what are our behaviors.
41:26
Speaker 7: I think our behaviors have changed, which is in some
41:28
Speaker 7: ways scarier because I think our behaviors used to be,
41:32
Speaker 7: you know, great, it's Friday night, I'm going to go
41:34
Speaker 7: on a date, let's go to let's go watch a movie.
41:37
Speaker 7: Now you literally have, like, you know, people say things
41:41
Speaker 7: like let's Netflix and chill right, which is a completely
41:44
Speaker 7: different sort of mindset, And I think that's pervasive. So
41:48
Speaker 7: I think people now looking for more stuff that they
41:51
Speaker 7: can binge watch, more stuff that they can see. I
41:53
Speaker 7: think people are enjoying watching, you know, something that's more
41:56
Speaker 7: in depth, like ten episodes of Narcos, and so I
42:00
Speaker 7: think that the amount of time people want to spend
42:04
Speaker 7: in the theater is less, and so therefore it's got
42:07
Speaker 7: to be more special. The corollary is that you have
42:11
Speaker 7: the studios and that are putting movies out there that
42:16
Speaker 7: know that the only way to really get people's attention
42:19
Speaker 7: is to spend quite a lot of money, and so
42:22
Speaker 7: the amount of films that they're willing to make that
42:24
Speaker 7: kind of risk on is really gone, you know. So
42:27
Speaker 7: what you're seeing less and less of are what I
42:30
Speaker 7: kind of grew up understanding, which was like that platform
42:33
Speaker 7: release where you're putting it on five screens is doing well.
42:36
Speaker 7: You're putting it on to ten, you're putting it on fifty,
42:38
Speaker 7: you're putting it on one hundred. You know, you're making
42:41
Speaker 7: a way to one thousand. You're seeing that happen less
42:43
Speaker 7: and less. So you either have big movies like you know,
42:47
Speaker 7: Marvel films that come out in four thousand screens, or
42:49
Speaker 7: you're seeing, you know, somebody come out on two screens
42:51
Speaker 7: and then go to the od. The world has has changed,
42:56
Speaker 7: and that's made it more and more difficult for producers.
42:59
Speaker 4: Yeah.
43:00
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's something I've noticed as well, is that
43:02
Speaker 3: you know, it is really you know, you sort of
43:04
Speaker 3: have to make those those those projections, right you sort
43:07
Speaker 3: of that's why we know, we were talking about sort
43:09
Speaker 3: of stacking the deck in our favor, and you have
43:11
Speaker 3: to make those projections that you know, this is how
43:13
Speaker 3: you know, if we could sell it on vod, if
43:15
Speaker 3: we can sell it through our website, if we can
43:17
Speaker 3: get on iTunes, get an aggregator, all that stuff.
43:19
Speaker 7: Well, yeah, but the one thing I would I would say,
43:21
Speaker 7: and I would reinforce is one of you know, indie
43:23
Speaker 7: film in some ways hurt itself. Going back to that
43:26
Speaker 7: time two thousand and six seventy eight, there were a
43:29
Speaker 7: lot of there was a lot of money. There was
43:31
Speaker 7: flush and instead of producers saying, okay, let's find the
43:34
Speaker 7: right movies, people were grabbing projects that had been on
43:37
Speaker 7: on shelves for years and saying, well, let's make this.
43:40
Speaker 7: And so there was great stuff that came out at
43:42
Speaker 7: that time, but there was also a ton of stuff
43:44
Speaker 7: that was either not good or just wasn't yet ready
43:48
Speaker 7: to be put out there. So that's the other thing
43:51
Speaker 7: is for now you have multiple ways of getting to people,
43:54
Speaker 7: and even you know, having someone see a movie on
43:57
Speaker 7: Netflix is not the worst thing in the world. But
43:59
Speaker 7: what are you doing what when they do find you,
44:03
Speaker 7: are you doing anything new and interesting? Because that's what
44:06
Speaker 7: I think people will gravitate towards. You know, if it's
44:09
Speaker 7: a French you know, mini series, but if it's amazing
44:12
Speaker 7: people are finding it on Netflix.
44:14
Speaker 4: I think that's a good thing.
44:15
Speaker 7: But I think that puts the onus on the filmmaker
44:17
Speaker 7: to not just make a movie, but to make something
44:20
Speaker 7: that's that's as a reason for being today.
44:24
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a good point, Aaron.
44:26
Speaker 9: Uh.
44:26
Speaker 3: You know, and actually I have one final question that
44:28
Speaker 3: came in and basically it is, you know, what would
44:30
Speaker 3: you recommend for a first time producer making a film.
44:35
Speaker 4: Run run Away?
44:39
Speaker 7: You know, looks the more that you know, the more
44:42
Speaker 7: you have one thing, you have to work harder than
44:44
Speaker 7: anybody else and you have to get that out there.
44:46
Speaker 7: People need to see that you're willing to be you know,
44:49
Speaker 7: as aggressive, more aggressive than anybody else, because momentum is
44:54
Speaker 7: really what makes a movie. People look at you when
44:57
Speaker 7: you have scripts and you're trying to peddle a script
44:59
Speaker 7: around town. You have a script and that it may
45:01
Speaker 7: be great, it may not be, but that's why they
45:03
Speaker 7: view you. If you have a movie, meaning you have
45:06
Speaker 7: this thing up and running, you guys are going to
45:08
Speaker 7: go on October twelfth, that changes things, that's complete, completely,
45:12
Speaker 7: creates a new dynamic. And so the point at which
45:16
Speaker 7: as a producer your goal is not to get a
45:19
Speaker 7: script funded by somebody, because that happens so infrequently. What
45:24
Speaker 7: you have to do is start adding the elements, right,
45:26
Speaker 7: So you have to look at who do I know?
45:28
Speaker 7: Who can I get to, who can help me? And
45:31
Speaker 7: you have to not be afraid to go and try
45:33
Speaker 7: to bring those people on board. And so you have
45:35
Speaker 7: to think of it almost like you're keeping plates in
45:37
Speaker 7: the air, you know, spinning at all times. You're running
45:40
Speaker 7: to you know, if you're gonna not direct it, you
45:42
Speaker 7: got to find the director for it. If you don't
45:45
Speaker 7: know a name director, you don't have somebody who you
45:47
Speaker 7: can bring on who adds value per se, find the
45:51
Speaker 7: most talented person you can find. Then you can get behind.
45:53
Speaker 7: You can show look, this movie is not just a
45:55
Speaker 7: great movie, but I'm going to bring this incredible piece
45:57
Speaker 7: of talent to the world. And then as you're starting
46:00
Speaker 7: to talk to talent, you're now you have a great
46:03
Speaker 7: script with a really impressive filmmaker, and don't you want
46:07
Speaker 7: to be a part of this? And so you're always
46:09
Speaker 7: running the table and you kind of always have to
46:11
Speaker 7: do these things simultaneously. It's a lot of work, and
46:14
Speaker 7: I think people that have an impulse to make a
46:18
Speaker 7: film sometimes don't always understand that the amount of work
46:21
Speaker 7: and sort of how grueling it can be. You can't
46:24
Speaker 7: just approach it sequentially where I'm going to bring the
46:27
Speaker 7: script to somebody, He's going to give me a bag
46:28
Speaker 7: of money. I'm then going to go spend that money
46:30
Speaker 7: on great talent, and then we're going to make a
46:32
Speaker 7: genie this movie and then go collect you know, Academy Awards.
46:35
Speaker 4: It just doesn't really work that way. It really is
46:38
Speaker 4: a game.
46:39
Speaker 7: Of trying to build momentum, and the more you build,
46:42
Speaker 7: the better your movie can attract talent, and hopefully the
46:46
Speaker 7: better better movie you'll be able to make.
46:48
Speaker 3: You know, there's a piece of producing advice that someone
46:51
Speaker 3: once gave me, and basically, all the resources come down
46:54
Speaker 3: to time and money. Either you need more time or
46:57
Speaker 3: you need more money. But they so you can spend
47:01
Speaker 3: You could spend time to get more money, but you
47:03
Speaker 3: can't spend money to get more time sort of right.
47:06
Speaker 4: So I mean it's true.
47:07
Speaker 7: I mean I've I've been on you know, I've I've
47:09
Speaker 7: seen that before, where you know, you think you have
47:12
Speaker 7: all the money in the world and so therefore that
47:14
Speaker 7: should be equal better movie and it doesn't always, you know,
47:18
Speaker 7: so I think that no matter where you are. And
47:20
Speaker 7: that was a lesson I learned working with Arbert Rodriguez
47:23
Speaker 7: was he wasn't always looking at like, how much money
47:26
Speaker 7: could I possibly get to make this movie? Quite the contrary,
47:28
Speaker 7: he would if he can get forty million dollars to
47:31
Speaker 7: make a Spikes the movie, he'd make that movie for
47:32
Speaker 7: fair because he was always trying to, you know, out
47:37
Speaker 7: smart the production, try to you know, deal with less.
47:40
Speaker 7: And also in that scenario he would always have a
47:43
Speaker 7: little bit more autonomy because the the onus was was
47:47
Speaker 7: far less than if he had made it for you know,
47:48
Speaker 7: fifty million dollars. So money doesn't always buy quality. If
47:52
Speaker 7: it did, then you know, every you know, every big
47:56
Speaker 7: warner Brothers and Fox movie would be amazing, but it's
48:00
Speaker 7: it's not that said on the indie front. You know,
48:03
Speaker 7: I think that you're you're still competing in a way
48:06
Speaker 7: with those larger movies, and so you have to invest
48:09
Speaker 7: in something else. You don't have CG. You don't have
48:12
Speaker 7: you know, the these huge implementations. But what you do
48:17
Speaker 7: can have is style, and what you can have is
48:19
Speaker 7: story and great character and something that's going to to
48:24
Speaker 7: to pop. And so you could put a movie like
48:26
Speaker 7: Black Swan into the same mix as you know, The
48:30
Speaker 7: Avengers and it will do well because it's different enough
48:33
Speaker 7: and it's it's engaging enough.
48:36
Speaker 4: Yeah.
48:36
Speaker 3: Yeah, And and that's a really good point. And you know, Aaron,
48:39
Speaker 3: just to sort of, you know, at one final thought
48:41
Speaker 3: to that, you know, as we talk about you know,
48:44
Speaker 3: making you know films and producing our first films. One
48:46
Speaker 3: popular method, you know, I've heard from a lot of
48:50
Speaker 3: of guests that I've on this podcast and even from
48:52
Speaker 3: reading books, particularly Stu Makowitz's.
48:56
Speaker 4: Book.
48:57
Speaker 3: Uh, basically it's creating that Rigae's list, you know, and
49:01
Speaker 3: it's basically you know, creating that you know, find out
49:03
Speaker 3: what you have access to, and then you build a
49:06
Speaker 3: script around that. So if you you know what I mean,
49:07
Speaker 3: if you have Grandma's house and you can use the basement,
49:10
Speaker 3: shoot something in that basement. If you have an old
49:12
Speaker 3: student baker that's sitting somewhere, try to find a way
49:14
Speaker 3: to put down the script as well.
49:16
Speaker 4: For sure.
49:16
Speaker 7: Yeah, and I think I would extend that to include
49:20
Speaker 7: relationships as well.
49:21
Speaker 4: You know, who do you know?
49:22
Speaker 7: Who do who you have access to, who can help you,
49:25
Speaker 7: who can introduce you to this person or that person?
49:28
Speaker 4: You know? And uh, and do that.
49:29
Speaker 7: But but more importantly, you know at the end of
49:31
Speaker 7: the day, piece that people forget sometimes is are you
49:35
Speaker 7: do you have something you're passionate about? You have a
49:37
Speaker 7: movie that you really want to tell you know that
49:40
Speaker 7: you you know because a lot of this stuff is details.
49:43
Speaker 7: A lot of this stuff is you know the how,
49:46
Speaker 7: And I think you've got to figure out why. And
49:48
Speaker 7: that's what hurts a lot of movies, is you have
49:51
Speaker 7: the how, Like, oh, I wanted to make a movie
49:53
Speaker 7: and I figured out how to do it. That's great,
49:55
Speaker 7: and I appreciate that.
49:57
Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our answer
50:04
Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
50:07
Speaker 7: But at the same time, you really need to start
50:09
Speaker 7: from the why, which is I have this piece of
50:11
Speaker 7: material that is going to be so funny or it's
50:13
Speaker 7: so interested, we're so engaging that you know, I have
50:17
Speaker 7: to get it out there, and that that's generally a
50:21
Speaker 7: better place to start.
50:23
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know, and that's a great point, Aaron.
50:26
Speaker 3: And it is about who you know, right, This whole
50:27
Speaker 3: this whole industry is about relationships, and it is always
50:30
Speaker 3: about you know who you know?
50:32
Speaker 5: Right.
50:33
Speaker 3: You know, guys, we've been talking for about, you know,
50:35
Speaker 3: forty nine minutes now, you know. So in closing, is
50:39
Speaker 3: there anything that we didn't talk about that you may
50:41
Speaker 3: wanted to discuss, or sort of any sort of final
50:43
Speaker 3: thoughts that you'd like to add to this conversation. Just
50:47
Speaker 3: sort of put a period at the end of this
50:48
Speaker 3: whole thing.
50:48
Speaker 4: I know, Brian waiting on the election right print.
50:52
Speaker 11: No, for sure, I've been you know, studying up and
50:55
Speaker 11: I think I've I've got it all figured out.
50:57
Speaker 4: Who's gonna wait in everything?
50:58
Speaker 11: So now I would say kind of big picture is
51:04
Speaker 11: a little bit what you what we've all been circling around,
51:08
Speaker 11: which is, there is the.
51:12
Speaker 8: Movie you have in your mind, which is in your imagination,
51:17
Speaker 8: There is the reality of life.
51:19
Speaker 6: You have to.
51:20
Speaker 8: Deal with the reality while I'm trying to execute this vision.
51:25
Speaker 8: So that's across the board, whether you're dealing with resources, money, actors, locations, anything.
51:33
Speaker 8: You know, don't be an artist who has an aversion
51:36
Speaker 8: to reality. This is not going to help you make
51:39
Speaker 8: a movie. You'll you'll do what you do, but you're
51:42
Speaker 8: not gonna make a movie. So, you know, even though
51:45
Speaker 8: it's an unpleasant reality, often better that than not. That's
51:51
Speaker 8: kind of my That's what I've kind of learned essentially.
51:56
Speaker 3: Yeah, and You're you're right, Brian, you know that that
51:58
Speaker 3: is something you know, uh, you know, I yeah, you know,
52:02
Speaker 3: I sometimes think, you know, you sort of you have
52:04
Speaker 3: to pick and choose battles, right, you know what I mean?
52:06
Speaker 3: You can pick and choose battles as long as you
52:08
Speaker 3: win the war type of you know, you know what
52:10
Speaker 3: I mean?
52:11
Speaker 8: Mm hmm.
52:11
Speaker 4: Yeah.
52:14
Speaker 3: So, so, Aaron, is there any sort of final thoughts
52:16
Speaker 3: that you have to sort of period asshole.
52:18
Speaker 7: Conversations that Flock of Dudes comes out on September thirtieth
52:23
Speaker 7: and comes out in theaters and on on iTunes. We're
52:27
Speaker 7: really we're really happy with the movie, and I hope
52:29
Speaker 7: everybody enjoys it.
52:32
Speaker 3: And everyone. I will link to Flock of Dudes in
52:35
Speaker 3: the show notes. I will link to all the good
52:40
Speaker 3: stuff about the movie. I will link to everything we
52:42
Speaker 3: talked about. Brian. Where we will find you out online.
52:47
Speaker 6: The website from me and the guys is the poachshow
52:49
Speaker 6: dot com, and you can find some sketches that we
52:52
Speaker 6: had done kind of leading up to Flock of Dudes,
52:55
Speaker 6: and also get some other information about us.
52:59
Speaker 3: Cool you're on Twitter or Facebook or anything.
53:03
Speaker 6: I'm on Facebook.
53:03
Speaker 3: I'm not on Twitter, so okay, cool and Aaron, we'll
53:08
Speaker 3: find you at all.
53:09
Speaker 7: I'm on Twitter at at an a underscore Kaufman k
53:13
Speaker 7: a U F M A N on Twitter, and I
53:15
Speaker 7: think I'm Aaron K.
53:16
Speaker 4: Kaufman on Instagram.
53:19
Speaker 3: Cool, and I will link to that in the show
53:20
Speaker 3: notes as well. Aaron, Brian, I want to say thank
53:23
Speaker 3: you very much for coming on. I wish you the
53:25
Speaker 3: best with Flock of Dudes, guys. I look forward to
53:28
Speaker 3: seeing Flock of Dudes or whatever he cans forts. Oh
53:31
Speaker 3: my pleasure, guys.
53:32
Speaker 2: Thank you.
53:32
Speaker 3: I wish you the best. All right, thanks my pleasure.
53:34
Speaker 3: By take care guys.
53:36
Speaker 2: I want to thank Dave so much for doing such
53:37
Speaker 2: a great job on this episode. If you want to
53:39
Speaker 2: get links to anything we spoke about in this episode,
53:41
Speaker 2: head over to the show notes at any film uncle
53:43
Speaker 2: dot com Forward slash eight thirty nine. If you have
53:46
Speaker 2: it already, please head over to filmmaking podcast dot com.
53:50
Speaker 2: Subscribe and leave a good review for the show. It
53:54
Speaker 2: really helps us out a lot.
53:55
Speaker 4: Guys.
53:55
Speaker 2: Thank you again so much for listening to guys. As always,
53:58
Speaker 2: keep that hustle going, keep that dream alive, Stay safe
54:01
Speaker 2: out there, and I'll talk to you soon.
54:04
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Indie Film Hustle podcast at
54:07
Speaker 1: indiefilm hustle dot com. That's I N D I E
54:10
Speaker 1: F I L M h U S T l E
54:13
Speaker 1: dot com.