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No Place Like Home · Everyone Has An Ex

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: You're listening to a Mother and Me a podcast.
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and waters.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: This podcast is recorded on acceptance. We all crave it
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: because it makes us feel good, but it feels extra
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: special when it comes at a time in need and
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: from someone who you immediately fancy. This was very much
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: the case when Sasha met Jay.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: They kind of zoned in on me, even though there
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: were other women trying and she was getting annoyed with
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: these other women, but she had eyes on me, and
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: she said, well, what are you And I said, well,
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: I'm queer, and then she goes, well, there's no such thing.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: You're either a lesbian or or not. And then I
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: be me went well no, there's queer, and there's like
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: that's not true, and that took her fancy. That was
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: thing that ignited her interest to me. Then all of
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: a sudden, she's sitting beside me with her hand on
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: my lap, and I'm like, okay, and I must have
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: been platted.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: But the thing about acceptance is that when you have it,
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: it's something you're scared to lose, even if what originally
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: felt so good starts to feel isolating and off.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: I was scared of homelessness. I was really scared of it, petrified.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: I was so terrified, and I wasn't building any connections.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: So Weirdly, even though I was so excited, I'm like,
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: I'm not actually building a community here. I'm just getting
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: more and more isolated with all these wealthy gay people
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: who I don't have anything in common with.
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: I'm Georgia Love and this is everyone has an ex
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: come with me as we dive into a collection of
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: unconventional stories about relationships passed through the eyes and the
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: hearts of the very people who lived them, meet Sasha.
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: Sasha is a proud member of the queer community, though
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: at the time our story begins, they didn't really know
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: exactly what that meant or where they fit in. They'd
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: gone through a lot in their forty seven years.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: When they met Jay, I had just moved back from
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: Sydney back to Brisbane. Since that age of forty, I'd
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: been moving around a lot. I was managing a lot
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: of the complex mental health issues that are sort of
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: trauma related. So before that I had worked in public
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: relations and i'd also worked as an event manager, but
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: because of trauma from the past that I hadn't done
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: any work on it kind of all imploded around the
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: time I was forty, so I found myself suddenly being
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: thrust out of my career and then into this sort
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: of journey. So by the time I had met Jay,
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: I think I was about forty seven years old, and
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: by that time I'd moved twenty times, so I'd had
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: been experiencing a lot of homelessness, couch surfing, living in
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: boarding houses, struggling to get diagnoses, and also I had
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: no family as well. I'm a survivor, a survivor of
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: quite a few, I guess, sexual assaults within my family.
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: So during that period I was very much definitely trying
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: to work out what was wrong with me, trying to
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: get over the fact that I had lost my career
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: and I'd always been really, really independent always. By the
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: time I got to Brisbane, I was exhausted. I still
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: was pretty much homeless in the sense that when I
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: got to Brisbane, I went to a hostel and then
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: after that I was sharing a house with a woman
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: and her two kids. But that was really problematic because
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: I wasn't really allowed to have friends over. So, I mean,
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: I'm forty seven at this time, but that was just
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: what I was dealing with. So at that time, I
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: was going to meet ups and I was spending a
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: lot of time on my recovery. So by that time,
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: I'd had my diagnosis, which was complex post traumatic stress disorder.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: So I went to the gym a lot. I had
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: seen people bit more on a very transactional kind of level.
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: I had had one relationship with a woman when I
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: was thirty three, so I was definitely queer. I've been
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: queer and out since the eighties. I'm more on the
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: pan bisexual spectrum. So my main love interests are women
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: and the lesbian space. So I was tooken up, you know.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: And I look great during my forties. I mean I
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: looked amazing. I was like long blonde hair. I was
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: a size eight, and that was the one thing I
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: could control because while I was waiting to see a psychologist,
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: I remember thinking, well, how turn it around, I could
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: afford the gym. I was totally absolutely obsessed with the gym,
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: and it was the one thing that kept me connected
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: with professional people and city life. And I just wasn't
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: really ready to give up that side of myself. And
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: it was good. I was. I loved that period of
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: my life. I love being healthy and fit. I loved
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: everything about that period. But I wasn't dating, and I
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: hadn't dated anyone since i'd left my first girlfriend. So
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: what I left them when I was thirty six, I'd
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: been a long time, been ten years, and yes I
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: had some transactional affairs with men and women, but nothing
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: you know, serious. So by the time I got to
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: Queensland and I met Jay, I wasn't really thinking about
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: a relationship, but I felt really good. I felt like, Okay,
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: I'm going to accept the fact that I'm on a disability.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to be ashamed about it. I'm going
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: to accept that I have complex PDSD. I'm going to
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: accept this radical acceptance. I also looked good and my
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: health was good, So that's how I'm That's where I
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: met them.
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: Where they met was a meetup.
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: So meetup is an organization that was set up a
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: new I think it's New York, and it's been around
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: for a long time. So let's say you fly into Melbourne.
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: You could go on to a meetup side of Melbourne
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: and there'll be like a group you can just go
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: and hang out at a bar, or you can do photography,
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: or you can go on a hike. Now this group
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: wasn't a gay group, but it was just a bunch
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: of women who wanted to go to a gay venue
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: because a lot of women feel safe in the queer community.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: And so I had organized the meetup because I actually
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: did want to go. I guess I did want to meet,
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: you know, a woman, and I was beginning to think, yeah,
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: I'm definitely lesbian. Now I'd always I'm denared about. I
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: have been in quiz spaces and this is what's always
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: really frustrating. Like from the eighties, I've been part of
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: the gay community, but because I'm paned, it's always been
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: a bit weird. What people might not understand is if
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: you're pan or buy there is this thing in the
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: community where you're either a lesbian or you're a gay man.
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: And I've always felt like I shouldn't be here unless
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: I'm with somebody. So at the meetup, I looked amazing,
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: I've still got the this this a little pink thing
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: that I got a second hand shot with heels. I
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: was very f a fembabe. So I had a big,
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: big table and there was three people sat down and
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: because I had booked it, and they said, can we
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: sit down now? One of them was Jay. Now Jay
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: got a lot of attention from all the women on
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: the table. Very good looking, I guess, a mask presenting
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: lesbian and blonde hair, very short men's clothing, very hot
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: and in that kind of context, yeah, that everyone's going
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: to go wow because masks presenting lesbians, well, for me anyway,
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: very attractive and everyone else thought so as well. She
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: was with her two mates, two gay boys, and they
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: were very friendly and funny. So it was a really
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: nice group of gay people that decided to sit down
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: with this group of women. They kind of zoned in
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: on me, even though there were other women trying and
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: she was getting annoy with these other women, but she
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: had eyes on me and she said, well what are
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: you and that she just said it like that, and
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: I'll never forget it because I remember going what and
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: I said, well, I'm queer, and then she goes, well,
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: there's no such thing. You're either a lesbian or you're not.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: And then I, being me, went well, no, there's queer,
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: and there's like that's not true, and that took her fancy.
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: That was a thing that ignited her interest to.
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: Me, and the interest very much went both ways.
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: I was attracted to them. They were very attractive. Then
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden, she's sitting beside me with her
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: hand on my lap, and I'm like, okay, and I
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: must have been flattered. I'm not like normal people where
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, yeah, they like me, and I don't
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: even always get shot by that, to be honest, So
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: but I went, okay, yeah, well they like me, and
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: it was flirty, so okay, that's fine. And I really
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: liked her friends. Her too gay friends were so nice
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: and funny, and I did feel like, oh, this is
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: exciting gay people because I really want to connect with
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: the gay community, right, So then she gave me her number,
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: and then I gave her mind, and then I left,
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: and then I didn't hadn't even walked out, and they
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: texted me, oh, I bet you don't like me, and
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: I bet you're never going to contact me again. Now
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: my thing was like a bit annoyed, like, of course
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: I'm going to contact you again, But I obviously liked
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: it because I knew they were attractive. I knew that
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: I felt I wanted to be part of the crew.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: I was more interested in her like the crew, the
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: three of them. I remember that. I remember being excited, Oh,
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: I'm going to be part of the gay community. This
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: is what I want. And then suddenly we started getting
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: into the flirting and the and it sort of went
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: from there.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: Sasha was brand new in this city and suddenly, for
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: the first time in a long time, they'd begun to
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: feel accepted, wanted and excited. And it moved really quickly.
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: I met her on a Saturday, and then the next
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: I know, I meet her on the Tuesday. And she's
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: a business person. She's got a like a car that
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: business people drive, like a very nice car, everything that
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: I don't have. I'm definitely have none of those things.
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: And they rock up and the first thing they do
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: were in the car and they drove me to go
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: on a date and have a meal, and they just
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: kissed me. That's not how I saw what was going
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: to happen. But the thing is with Jay is that
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: they really are someone that they're very not forceful in
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: an aggressive way. They're very charming, but they work very quickly.
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: I have met that kind of person in the gay community,
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: someone that's just talking a lot and moving very quickly.
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: It's all very dramatic. They didn't want the date to end,
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: and me being me, I'm going, oh, I'm tired now,
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: I want to go home. That I know, let's do
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: this and let's do that. I don't know how I felt.
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: I must have liked them because I obviously kept hanging out.
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: I was very lonely, and also I hadn't been in
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: a car for a long time or driven around. I
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: really liked that. There were things I definitely like, oh,
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: this is nice, levels of comfort that I'd forgotten about.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: I wasn't really thinking anything. I had no expectations because
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: I had so many weird adventures. My life had been
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: one weird adventure, like I was in such a strange
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: no person's land for such a long time. Most people
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: have lived like, you know, maybe there's some little disruptions
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: in the life. My life was one big disruption mentally,
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: I'd been struggling with my mental health. So maybe I
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: felt flattered too, because they made me feel quite pretty.
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: And I did feel at that time I was really
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: good looking, Like I really believed it, and I thought,
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, it made me feel good about myself physically,
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: and I think that's important, and they definitely made me
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: feel pretty good. And also, when I think about it,
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: they chose me out of a big group of attractive women,
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: so yeah, they must have been really making me feel
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: good about myself.
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: There was part of it that made sash I feel
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: a little uncomfortable, but they pushed it down. This woman
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: was great and interested. They didn't want to sabotage it.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: There was another side of me going, ah, this is
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: going very quickly, and this person's moving so fast, and
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: I'm finding it a little bit overwhelming, but let's see
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: what happens. So then I think maybe a week or
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: two weeks into it, we went to Cans because why not.
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: And I think it was me who actually went, but
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: I didn't mean it. I was just like, oh, let's go,
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: and wouldn't be great if we did this. I was
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: not thinking, I'm a thinking, oh, yeah, we're going to
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: do that. I hadn't been on a trip for ten years.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: It's just me going, oh, wouldn't that be nice? You know, daydreaming,
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: you know, when you're flirting with people and you make
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: up little I wouldn't it be nice to do this
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: and that and something? It's happening and they're making it happen,
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: and it's happening really quickly, and I'm going, oh, wait
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: a minute, I have no money. No I can't, and
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: now I'll pay for everything, and I'm like, oh, I
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: don't feel very comfortable with that. But and then it
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: was like a well, camp so we're going into this
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: whole negotiation thing, and I'm like, okay, camping's fine. So
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: in the end, we went on a bloody road trip
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: to Cans. We all know that Cans road trip doesn't
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: matter where you're coming from, it's you're in the car
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: for a long time. So we went, and I must
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: admit it was a really good trip. It was around
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: New Year's so it must have been really quick. I
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: met them December the seventeenth, and suddenly New Year's I'm
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: there meeting her mate. So we stayed at a mate's place.
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: So they were good like that. They made sure that
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: I wasn't put into a financial I could pay a
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: camping site thing and I could contribute because I said
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: to them, look, I'm not a business person. I'm on
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: a very low income and I don't like people paying
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: for me. But they're like, oh, but that's how we
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: show our love, and I'm like, you're just I just
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: don't feel comfortable, and oh, but you deserve nice things,
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: and I thinking, but I have nice things, Like I
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: go to a knop shop and I buy my you know,
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: I've got my life where exactly it gives me what
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: I need? Anyway, So we go to Cannes. We end
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: up at this New Year's party. I looked amazing. I
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: was all like tanned, a long hair, sexy dress. They're
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: they're being really like arm around me, making sure I'm
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: not going too far. But this one, very very queer person,
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: very creative person. He's going, you want to get away
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: from them, you don't want to be with them. He
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: followed me all night. He's going that person is a
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: moneyed person and they're going to want to control you.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: And it's like this angel and they're finally like, you
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: have to leave, you're too beautiful, and he's going to
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: this person will control you. They just want to use you.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: And they ended up getting to the point where she
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: got into a huge argument with him. I remember thinking
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: it was very weird. He was gay. He was a
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: gay man, Like it wasn't about that's why my Oh no,
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: it was weird.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: This guy didn't even know Jay, he'd only met them
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: that night, but Sasha pushed it aside. They really liked
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: Jay and this was going well.
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: She said, I'm so obsessed with you. You don't understand
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: how obsessed I am with you. I just don't know
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: what it is about you. I was pretty impressed with her.
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: I actually had a lot of respect for them, and
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: they were sexy, like I really found them very attractive.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: But I must have met I wasn't thinking, oh, yeah,
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna live with this person forever. I really was
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: thinking more like this is just an adventure.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: But soon that changed because as they spent more time together,
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: they realized it wasn't really feasible when Sasha was living
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: in someone else's house who didn't like visitors.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: They didn't like the fact that they couldn't come to
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: my place. They owned a house. They lived upstairs with
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: their mum and downstairs was like a unit, and they
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: just said, well, why don't I rent that out to you?
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: And I guess I just did it without thinking, yeah,
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: I just did it. I think there was deep anxiety
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: around homelessness and maybe a hope that this could be
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: I could you know, I mean I don't think I
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: was like thinking manipulative or anything like that. I was
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: all very much like just doing what felt right at
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: the moment without actually thinking. I was so used to
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: you hauling my first relationship, we moved really quickly, I'd
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: actually moved into state, and there is that thing, Oh,
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: this is just normal, this is just what we do.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: I really wasn't questioning any of it. It's just that's
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: what gay would they do. It's meant to be like this.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: So the thing is like, you know, tell us a
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: story of the lead up of how you got married,
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: and then the joke is, well, there is no lead
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: up because we met, we dated, we had a really
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: long date. Usually the date might last two days. You know,
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: there's that joke, and then we moved in with each
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: other and we've been married since and that's it. And
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: that's kind of the lesbian bisexual, the queer woman fantasy.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: It's not like we talk about that because it's always
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: the lesbian eu hall. That's what we all joke about.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: And falling in love really quickly, crushing really quickly, the
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: awkwardness of it sometimes it can be a bit high
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: school and the best way possible.
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: So they packed the U haul and Sasha moved in
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: with Jay and her mum.
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: I was excited. It was not just the relationship with
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: her or her friends, her family. She had a huge family.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: They were the things that we were really so I
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: was excited, and I guess I moved in and also
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: I thought, well, here's a roof over my head. But
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: then all of a sudden it got Yeah, it just
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: the honeymoon period just finished. As soon as I moved in,
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: her grandmother died. So that was the end pretty much
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: of our intimate life. Right at the beginning, we had
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: this full on intimacy. And then I think I moved
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: in with her maybe four weeks after I'd met her,
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: and that was the end. She started to change. Suddenly
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: we're caught up with the grief because also she was grieving.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: She had just broken up with a girlfriend of six
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: years and that was very, very messy. So there was
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: that so that everyone was still talking about that because
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: it was so recent, so the ghost of her ex
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: was there. But hey, that's another lesbian trope. There's always
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: a third person, there's always an next girlfriend. Yeah, so
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: I kind of wasn't really too shocked because every woman
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: that I've even had a fling with I think. I
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: remember I woke up once and there was a woman
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: sitting at the end of the you know it's always
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: you know whatever, but I remember it being really heavy.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: When I moved in, she started making comments. You go, Okay,
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: how many men have you start with? And that made
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: me feel so ashamed. She'd be like, oh, how many
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: men if you slept with? And I'm like, this is
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: making me feel really bad, and she go, I just
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: don't know if I can, you know, compete with all
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: those men, and You've got so much more experience than me.
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: And I went into the shame like I just lost.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: I think that I lost complete interests in sex.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: So if sex was off the table at this stage
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: in their relationship, all they really had to do was talk.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: But the thing is with Jay, they don't talk, and
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: that I think is when I trauma bonded with her,
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: because that's when I didn't find out about any of
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: her past from her. They never spoke about their past.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: The only thing they ever talked about was their business,
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: and that was it and how much money. The first
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: thing they do in the morning is I'd look at
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: their fine how much money they had in their account
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: and work. So they were very very business and money
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: focused and also buying stuff. The only thing they ever
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: talked about was things they were going to buy. And
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: I must admit, yeah, very boring, no interest at all
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: in politics, interest in anything deep. But her mother was different.
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: Her mother definitely loved talking about the past and it
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: was very traumatic. And I would just get stuck with
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: these conversations with her mother about really really traumatic, distressing
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: conversations that even Jay didn't know about. Because I'd go
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: back and go, I'm like, God, your mom's just told
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: me all that. All I could see was the little
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: girl in this person. And then that's when I started
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: to see more of that person, that little girl. So
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: suddenly Jay's sick all the time. They were sick all
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: the time with ulcers, and I'm like, yeah, that's because
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: you need to go see a psychologist. But they're like no, no, no,
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: no no. And then I guess that's where I started
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: become like I helped. I mean, here I am this
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: new person I'm helping at the funeral, being the people
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: pleaser I am. And then we're meeting all her family
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: who don't like me. I think they're quite it's not me,
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: but how they treated me, like the silent treatment her
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: auntie had intellectually disabled son. And I said, oh, I'm
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: Jay's girlfriend, and I got told off like he doesn't
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: have capacity to understand that you're just a friend. And
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, wait a minute, what's going on here?
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: And it was a very straight, very I guess, let's
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: just say country folk. But I was being dumped on
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: and dumped on her mother just and I just was
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: getting quieter and quiet and quieter, and I think the
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: sex was going downhill. Jay was beginning to just close.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: They were totally ill and stressed and upset, and so
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: there was no romance.
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: This early in a relationship, it's pretty easy to just
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: say whoa, Okay, this is not for me, right, That's
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: what Sasha thought too.
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: I made a run for it. I actually packed my
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: bag and left because I remember saying to her in
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: the car, I can't do this anymore. I'm having a
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: breakdown now. At this time, I didn't have a psychologist either.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: I didn't have any support own mental health supports, and
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: also where I moved it was an hour from the
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: city I was working, but as a low paid Jay
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: was raking in like they're a business owner, raking in
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: like I don't know a lot of money, more money
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: than I could ever even. Let's just say they saved
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: one hundred and forty K in six months. That kind
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: of money. So suddenly I'm working full time and I'm
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: traveling an hour each way, and I'm just going, what
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: happened to you? And I'm getting putting on weight that
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: this is all happening really really quickly, and I'm thinking, oh,
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: I'm trapped. I just basically pat my bag and ran
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: for it and went to a boarding house because I'd said, look,
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: I think i'd rather live on my own. I'd rather
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: live on my own. I said, I'm used to boarding houses.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: There's a lot and where I was, So I'm gonna
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: go and do that. And I did, and then they followed, Yeah,
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: she came after me. She didn't want to lose me.
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: So I just said, I can't live with your mum.
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: I want my own place. And they said, okay, why
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: don't we rent a place? And I said, well, it's
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: going to be fifty to fifty and we did. That's
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: what we ended up doing. I didn't really feel like
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: I had a choice because where else was I going
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: to go? And I saw obviously was invested in the
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: relationship and with her as well. I really adored her.
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: I mean, I adored the little girl. I mean obviously
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: I understood where she came from. Now. She was charming
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: and funny, and she had a dog. We loved animals.
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: The thing that connected us for animals and looking after
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: the animals. I liked her friends, and when we started
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: just sharing, it was fine, and then I felt much
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: more relaxed. So for a period of time while I
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: was working, everything was fine. We just lived in that
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: little bubble and I kind of did like it because
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: I felt protected and I finally felt like, oh, I've
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: made the queer community. It finally accepted me. I did
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: feel really good being with her. I did adore them
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: very much.
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: For two years, things were good. Sasha loved being part
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: of Jay's world and feeling comfortable in the queer community.
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: They shared everything fifty to fifty and had put good
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: boundaries in place around Jay's family and what they could handle.
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: We did not have drama, But where we did have
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: drama was that she's tried to push like so, for example,
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: she went away for a month, she went to Greece
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: and Italy. Now she was good about that. She knew
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: I couldn't afford it. I didn't want to go, and
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: I hate being stuck with a whole bunch of drunk people.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: So I'm like, no, I'm not too. I'm also had
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: where am I going to get the money for that?
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: And I'm still paying my rent. I'm making sure everything
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: is fifty to fifty. But if they want to go
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: off and do those things, they do it on their own.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: So during that time, I wanted to go to meetups
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: and I would say, I really want to get a
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: lesbian network. I want to meet more lesbians and like,
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: oh no, if you do that, I'll lose you. And
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: I'm going, uh no, you're not. I'm going to assure
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: you with that. I said, I don't really think I'm
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: into that. I just want friendship, and also I don't cheat,
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: and she go, no, I just you know, I feel uncomfortable.
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: But then when we would go out, like we'd go
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: to the gay places women constantly. I had one woman
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: and it was Halloween. She only had like all this
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: black lingerie do a sexy dance in front of her.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: Now she'd be embarrassed. She'd actually say, can you come
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: to the toilet with me? Because I'd have to fend
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: off all these but I'd be laughing because I'm forty eight.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: I don't think it's really worthy of getting upset about it.
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: But they hated it, so that was a no go.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: I wasn't allowed, so I was getting more more isolated.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: So she went overseas. She comes back, and then all
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: of a sudden, that's when things started to get really
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: scary because she's like, I want to buy another house,
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: and this is before COVID, so twenty nineteen, and suddenly
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: she's in the car and changing a lot. I put
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: on thirty kilos. I'm no longer going to the gym.
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: I'm very unhappy at work. I'm not coping. Works hard.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: I was getting in trouble because my face doesn't match
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: my actions. I asked for disability adjustments, and then I
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: got fired from my contract. It was very, very stressful.
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: So then I did get a psychologist and they're like, going, oh,
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: well you know you sure you know I don't see it,
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: and I'm like, well, I know I have to start
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: addressing my mental illness. And I said, look, can we
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: go and see someone so we can talk about my
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: mental health and how we can help manage it. And
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: they're like, I'd book something and they go, oh, that's
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: a woman. I don't want to see a woman book
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: another one. Oh I don't have time for that. Three
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: times I tried, and I'm the one struggling with no support.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: I had no friends. My whole life was her and
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: her friends. She's lovable, she's really good at making friends.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: I'm not.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: And Sasha started to notice some things around this time,
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: things I would say too, and about.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: Them, she'd say things like she'd always get, aren't you
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: glad you're not in a boarding house anymore? So you
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: couldn't afford this if I wasn't around, And she was right.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: I was scared of homelessness. I was really scared of it, petrified.
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: I was so terrified, and I wasn't building any connections.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: So Weirdly, even though I was so excited, I'm like,
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: I'm not actually building a community here, I'm just getting
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: more and more isolated with all these wealthy gay people
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: who I don't have anything in common with. I looked
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: after the house like even though I was working, because
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: I wasn't a business person earning thousands of dollars a
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: week or whatever. I ended up being the housekeeper. And
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: I'm like, I didn't go to union and study women's studies.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: I'm a queer, so I can be a housewife. And
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: I don't know. They'd winge about how I cooked food. Well,
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: you can cook for yourself. I actually I'm not cooking
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: for you. Like this is a stupid like there was
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: all this gender stuff. I was wearing clothes that were
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: very what a housewife would wear. She just always wanted
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: to put me in that housewife and I was like,
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: I'm not a housewife. I have a degree. And I said, oh,
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: you do know I have a degree, right, just because
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: I have a disability. It's not just the queer thing
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: that she's bullying. It's my disability. It's my weakness and
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: my vulnerability. Oh well, you're on a disability, so you
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: have to cook for me. I think around that time
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: she started to go, Okay, I want you to become
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: guaranteur on this house. And then I'm like, well, I
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: don't want to be a guaranteur. You have business loans.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: She had so many business loans. She had so many businesses,
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: so many businesses, She even said, oh, I'd like you
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: to sign this and be a director, and I'm like,
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to do that. I said, wait a minute,
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: what if you die, I'm going to end up with
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: your debt. And I don't want your debt. You know.
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: I don't have any money, you know, and I'm struggling myself.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: But I didn't know what to do. But she's going, Okay,
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: we're going to buy a house. But we didn't sit down,
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: you know how couples will sit down. Ok, hey, do
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: you think it's time we bought a house? What do
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: you think about that? There was no discussion, it was
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: just happening. So she went overseas and then all of
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: a sudden, we're buying this house. And I'm like, wait
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: a minute. And she finally went, Okay, I know you
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: want to forever home. And I'm like, yeah, of course
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: I do. I've been homeless all my life. When I
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: met her, i'd lived twenty places. When I was with her,
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: I'd already moved I think five times. She goes, Okay,
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: this can be your place. I'll just you know, work here,
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: but you can rent it out. Because it was huge,
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: it had three stories. I had a granny flat downstairs,
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: and then it had the lund room, and then I
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: had two bedrooms upstairs. It was a big townhouse. She said,
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: I just want you to decorate it. So we got
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: through superannuation. You can get your disability insurance. So I
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: got a payout of like one hundred k. So she
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: was like, okay, well it can be your place. And
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: then she's like, oh, can you pay the rates? Can
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: you pay? I paid the mortgage six months in advance
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: because She's gone, I've done so much for you, and
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking, what have you done. I've always paid fifty
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: to fifty. I paid for the removalsts, I paid for
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: the cleaner. It was fifty to fifty. I looked through everything.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: Suddenly I'm paying for her holiday. Suddenly all my money
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: is going on her. So I would follow her around
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: the house and could we please get a lawyer. I
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: really want this in writing. But she said no, no, no,
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: you can trust me. I will never ever do bad
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: by you. I can't believe you don't trust me. I've
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: done so much for you. So I gave up in
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: the end with that, she refused.
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: Sasha knew this wasn't good, but they didn't know what
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: to do. Jay was promising them their dream home. They're
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: forever home, something they'd never had and wanted so badly.
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: Then everything escalated. Now I then went into fantasy land
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: because I've got a really good eye for design. I do.
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: I'm really really good. And I did all the four bathrooms,
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: a laundry, and a kitchen, and I I did all
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: the like, all planned, all the tiling out budgeted, I
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: did a whole project plan like. This thing made me
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: feel so good about myself. It was definitely my house.
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: All the furniture, I bought everything. Oh look, I didn't
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: pay for all the She did pay for all the rhinos,
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: but I paid for the laundry. I mean, I was
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: spending money. I didn't like thinking this is going to
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: be my forever house, so all my money and I
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: haven't had this amount of money for a long time,
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: and I'm feeling pretty good. I'll look at me being,
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: you know, a raid owner. I'm not thinking, so everything's
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: just going into this house, and then it gets Then
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: suddenly I think April. She I think it was like
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: around the beginning of April. She goes, oh, my brother's
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: moving in, And I went, what And I'd never met
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: her brother. They hadn't talked for ten years. I'm like,
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: what who? Because she doesn't talk, she's never talked about him,
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: because she doesn't talk about anything.
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: But when she finally did start talking, she revealed her
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: brother had a brain tumor and needed full time care.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: I was really scared of looking after someone who had
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: a brain tumor. That scared me. I felt very overwhelmed.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: I felt so overwhelmed by that. I'm like, I can
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: barely look after myself. That was the expectation that I
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: would look after him. Yeah, she's going, that's your job.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: That's your job to look after him. I would look
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: after your brother. I'm not in any state. I need
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: to look after myself. I'm sick at the moment, I'm
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: getting sicker. I need to be focused on, you know,
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: getting back on a disability pension. And also, I thought
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: I've just paid all this rent. I thought this was
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: my place, and we would fight. That's what all the fights,
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: and it was getting worse and worse, and I would like,
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: I knew so needy, like so I became I'm really
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: ashamed to say this, but I became that's abuse, you know,
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: I'm telling we're not communicating in any way that I tried.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: That's not working. We're fighting in the car. This is happening.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: I knew, and as I moved in, I went, I'm trapped.
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: I knew, I'm your trapped now.
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: Around this time, Sasha also started to explore their sexuality
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: and queen as further. They'd turned fifty, felt more set
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: up than they ever had before, and had a partner
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: they assumed would be supportive.
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: I went to a queer meetup and I was excited.
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: I'd finally made it. It takes a lot of work
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: for me to get out of the house. Already had
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: all these blocks, you know. And I went to the
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: book club was run by a kind of geeky lesbian
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: woman and whatever. And I got back and jas going,
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: I bet you liked them more than you like me.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: So I never went again. That was the end of
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: the book club because I would feel so guilty. So
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: I just became more heterosexual in the relationship. I'll be honest,
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: I started to look more heterosexual. I just looked like
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: a fat, unhappy straight girl. But my psychologist isn't picking
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: it up. That's the weird thing. Like he's not picking
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: it up, I'm going and I'm going, look, I'm just
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: feel really overwhelmed. And now she wants me to move
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: in and she's trying to get my money, and he's
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: not stepping in and going, wait a minute, I'm going
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: to treis you? He said nothing, absolutely nothing. So January
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, were invited to a New Year's party
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: and I wanted to wear brogues and Amend's outfit because
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: I'd been wanting now. Every time I brought up, look,
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: I think I'm queer, I think I'm non binary, she
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: would go, well, what's that? And that's an it. I
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: don't even understand what that means. What's this pronoun thing?
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: So a lot of it was just kind of gradually
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: making me feel really but I thought, no, I want
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: to go out to this thing. But also with now polish,
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: she liked a certain color and if I change, she'd go, oh,
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: I don't like that. And my hair always had to
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: be long because I'm like, I think I want to
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: cut on my hair off. It was quite long, and
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: see like, no, no, I wouldn't like that. So all
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: these things were happening and I'm going, okay, So I thought, no,
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: I want to wear a men's suit. Now, Jay wears
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: men's suits all the time. We went men shopping all
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: the time. I went men shopping for her all the time.
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: So I'm like, why can't I? She said, oh no,
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: the dress code is heels and a dress. And I went,
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: well that no, and she said no, no, no, no,
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: no you can't. She's again really really distressed, not angry
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: in it, just distressed, like very on a high pert.
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: No no, no, you can't like that, very You must
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: wear heels. And I said, I want to see the
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: dress code. So it's getting ridiculous. And then I said, no,
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: wait a minute, I'm queer. I'm allowed to wear what
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: I want. I remember saying that, don okay, But we fought.
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: We nearly didn't go, but we had to go, and
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: I ended up getting all these compliments. I ended up
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: wearing a pretty top top. I ended up mixing it up,
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: but I still wore my pants and my brogues. But
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: I'm like, okay. And then I started to contact an
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: organization called Switchboard, and that's when they were like, oh,
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: that's abuse. But I'm still going, really, this isn't to me.
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: It was like I was the aggressor I'm the one
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: who's Jay never yelled. They got intense, they got it
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: full on, but they were never aggressive ever.
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: But it made Sasha think. All the things Jay would
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: say to them about their role in the home and
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: the relationship, about money, the way she encouraged Sasha to
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: spend all their money to be tied to her, that
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: was abuse.
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: You just don't clock it because you clock everything within
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: how straight women are treated. Oh, they hit me. They're
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: yelling at me, like that's what men do. Like it's
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: different in same sex. It's a whole different complexity, and
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: there are different types of abuse. She's not looking after me.
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: She doesn't care about me at all, And I'm the
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: villain in this story and I can and my psychologist
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: isn't helping me. I don't think think that Jay's a
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: bad person. I think she's a very broken person. But
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: I just feel like no one's giving me any support.
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: The only support I'm getting of the phone calls I'm making,
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: and I'm going, oh, wait a minute, I think I
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: might be in something I don't understand. I was so
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: overweight and unhappy, I'd lost my looks. I knew that
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: I was losing control and I was actually worried that
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: she would call the police on me because I was screaming.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: And so all this time we'd had this non dramatic
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: I had been feeling really proud of myself and managing
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: my mental health. But all of a sudden, I'm not
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: because I felt trapped. I was like, why is this
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: person pressuring me to do things I don't want to do.
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: Why are they not respecting the fact I'm trying to
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: look after my mental health. And it was horrible, and
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: I could see it was stressing the dogs. I'm like,
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: this is getting bad. That's why I left. This situation
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: is not safe for me, it's not safe for her,
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: it's not safe for the dogs. I need to get
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: the hell out of here. So I packed one bag.
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: This is like a whole, all my beautiful furniture, outdoor furniture,
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: indoor furniture, everything, mugs, the whole, you know, all my clothes, everything,
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: all my bathrooms. I designed everything that I was proud of.
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: And I just got a bag and I went to
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: a boarding house. I just instinctively knew that they were
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: going to chase me. They'd always every time I try
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: to leave or I wanted to go or I wanted
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: to change something. They just would. I mean, they wore
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: me down and I knew they would chase me so
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: I couldn't get any housing. Now. Remember Queensland went from
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: being a very cheap place to live to a very
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: expensive place to live. And in a way, that worked
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: in my favor because I looked at another stage and
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: I saw, oh, there's lots of units. Look at all
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: these units in the city, and I'd lived in that
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: state before. I'm like, okay, sure I'll go there. I
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: can afford two. And that means I'm away from them,
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: so I left everything. I was more upset about my
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: dog and her dog, because I mean, they would be
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: my support. I cried and cried. I have had no
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: grief about her, and also her friends because they would
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: just cut me off, and her family I haven't heard.
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: It was like I was invisible. And then all I
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: could think was my fiftieth birthday, and I was fifty
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: one by then. I'm going, wow, that was the most
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: important birthday because I'd never had birthdays in my past,
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: and I went, oh, wow, those people that are at
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: my birthday they didn't care about me. It was very painful.
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: It was so painful. I was ringing Lifeline a lot,
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: to be honest, and I was just trying to get
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: my I was in the height of a complex post
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: traumatic stress disorder, so that makes us not that safe
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: to be around. I'm not dangerous, but obviously no one
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: wants to be around someone when you're triggered. I was
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: in a little bachelor unit. I got in the end
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: ten grand back and then I said, okay, what about
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: all the interior design work that I did? And she said,
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: if you keep asking me for that, I'm going to
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: call a center link. I'm going to tell them they
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: we're in a relationship and you're going to lose your disability.
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: She would keep trying to contact me, and she's texting, texting, texting.
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: You'd be there a year and then you'll come back.
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: I blocked her, and then I unblocked her. When you
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: break up with a lesbian, you've got to do it.
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: About four times. I was scared. I'm going to tell you.
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: I was absolutely I've got I kept all the receipts.
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: When I ran Lifeline DV, I thought about it ending
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: my life. My brother said, look, why are you leaving them.
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: You're fifty one, You've got a disability. You're never going
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: to meet anyone is good. It was hard for me
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: to let go. It took me a year. Even a
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: year later, I'm going, well, maybe I could move back,
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: Maybe I could. You know, I missed the house, and
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: I guess that's why I moved into state as well.
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: I couldn't deal with the pain being so close but
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: yet so far I thought, I mentally don't think I
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: could do it. I think I might go crazy. I
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: think I might end up doing something weird. I just
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: knew it wasn't safe to be there. I was so
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: mentally ill by that time.
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: Eventually, with a lot of work and support from online
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: and phone services, Sasha was able to pick themselves up again,
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: slowly but surely. They cut all contact with Jay and
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: have since discovered she's not only moved on, she's engaged
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: and together they've bought another house. But Sasha doesn't feel
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: any sadness or jealousy around this. They've done a lot
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: of research into what they experienced and were put through
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: and have been able to call it what it was
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: and work through that.
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: People will think that domestic violence is something that just
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: happens between a man and a woman, or a man
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: and a child like with families, however that's not the case.
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: So sixty six percent of the community have experience of
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: a queer people so lesbian, gay, bisexual, intersex. So anyone
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: under the queer umbrella, sixty six percent has experienced some
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: form of abuse and intimate partner abuse, and most of
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: the people within that are by pan sexual, disabled, trans.
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: Anyone on gender fluid is definitely at higher risk, and
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: not people of color, but obviously I think anyone who's
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: vulnerable is at a higher risk. And then when you
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: lay that abuse with family abuse, homelessness, mental health, and
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: obviously the gatekeeping and discrimination that happens within the community,
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: it's a lot more complex. It was good leaving her
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: because then I could get the help I needed. They
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: do say that bisexual women are more at risk of
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: abuse within the queer trans and by women by people
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: buy women in particular with the disability we rank the highest,
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: and also with homelessness, and I think it's because well,
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: obviously we're more likely to get the abuse from the
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: straight guy. And then you've got thos be a woman
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: who is very confident and I want to be part
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: of that, but they're saying, well, your other and you're
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: also a bit slutty because tell me about your body count.
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: I'll always be heard. Because I thought she was my friend,
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: it hurts more than I thought she was my best friend.
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: It also hurts me because I didn't think lesbians would
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: do that. I didn't think the queer community would ever
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: ever treat me like that. It was shocking and it's
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: been hard. I just don't date anyone now, and I
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: wouldn't anyway. If I dated someone, I don't want to
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: live with them. I don't need you anyway. I'm now
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: in community housing, so that was the state. It's worked
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: out quite well for me. So when I started making
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: decisions for myself and I just completely block them, I
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: still feel the betrayal. I started the thing called Socially
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: Brave Queer Hubs and it's just a meetup group and
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: I'm doing some sort of partnership to with other meetup
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: groups like Rainbow Melbourne. Social meetup groups are really good
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: because you can go on your own. You go to
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: the event and then you go home and it's not
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: like dating. It's not a dating. It is friends. But
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: the main aim for the meetups is that people have
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: somewhere to go and to help me get out of
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: the house, and that has been very helpful. It's taken
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: me a while to understand who I am in the
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: queer community, because I'm like, I'm not lesbian. Lesbian hang
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: out lots of lesbians, but I'm not. There's a bit
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: of a disconnect there. And then I'm like, Okay, I
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: think I might be more on the queer, pan sexual,
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: gender and unconforming. So I know who I am. So
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: now I have an undercut, but I have it all.
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: I can change. I can be butched, I can be
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: fem I've got I can wear fake eyelashes, or I
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: can you know, I can do whatever I want on
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: any given day. And it's been so amazing, like just
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: to be like, oh here I am. Yes, I never
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: lost the weight, but I thought, okay, well, you know
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: I am in my mid fifties, give yourself a break.
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: Let me explore all the rainbow and bright colors and
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: sparkles and glitters that exists within me. And I wasn't
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: allowed to explore that. I mean, I kind of came
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: gray with her. But since leaving her, I've been able
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: to I have found out so much about the queer community,
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: the new O divergent community. It's not just been queer
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: and I really there is a lot of intersectionality. And
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: what I didn't realize is there so many of us
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: in the queer community that are autistic or have ADHD.
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: Through the meetups, I've also learned about people I met
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: trans people and learning about their experience actually trans women
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: in housing and their vulnerability, people of color. Everybody has
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: their own thing that I can't speak to, but it's
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: still as glittering. Yes there's a lot of darkness, but
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: there's also this amazing lightness and you can only do it.
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: It's also connected me more with the services. So DV
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: Foundation Now that service was being created in Brisbane the
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: very month that I was making a run for it.
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: So the CEO, who's incredible guy. He is a game
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: a policeman austraya over the year, but he was in
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: a domestic abuse relationship. So he set up the DV Foundation,
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: which is an awareness building and so there's that now
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: which wasn't there when what was happening. So things are changing.
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: And then Rainbow Door. So if any of your listen,
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: doesn't matter if you're in the UK, if you're in
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: Antarctica wherever. You can go on the website if you've
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: got Wi Fi, and you can check the information, because
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: you'll be surprised, I think how different it is. Like
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: it's still the same as how intersexual relationship, but then
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: you've got these weird things like this whole thing about
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: being by and being shamed about that, being isolated from
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: the queer community. That's terrible. Our community. That's how we
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: get support and safety, and that means it's good to
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: see other queer people, I mean. And it's also you
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: don't have to sleep with each other. You can just
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: sit and have a dream. Just calm down, everybody. And
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: you don't have to move in with each other either.
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: You can just be friends and try that. And I
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: really really, especially for lesbians and young lesbians, slow down.
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: It's okay, you hauling. It's so two thousand and one.
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: As soon as I got into the driving seat of
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: my life. As soon as I left the house and
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: the dog and all my furniture and my design, I
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: didn't just leave a home. If you're a creative person
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: and you have redesigned a house that you thought you
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: were going to live, and you've put all this energy
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: into the tiles and how it look and you it's like.
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: And also from my point of view, it's first thing
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: I've done in years that I feel proud of, just
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: having to leave that and what I thought was a
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: community as well. But by making that step, and thankfully
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: I could do it because I had my disability the insurance.
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: Thank god, by making that decision to take control of
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: my life was the best decision. And even though it
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: was really painful and it hasn't been perfect, I've been
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: in and out. I've had to I now see a
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: very good therapist through Open Arms, and she's amazing and
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: she's gay, which is great. So that helps having a
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: lesbian because I understand, you know, like having the other psychologists.
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: So I finally have a psychologist who gets it. So
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: how do I feel. I feel like, yeah, I got
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: my voice back and I'm proud of myself. I feel good.
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: I feel good. It's an ongoing journey.
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: If you, or anyone you know is a victim of
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: domestic violence or abuse, there are a list of support
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: services in our show notes, including those specifically supporting the
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: queer community. Everyone Has an X is a MINTI Media
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: production and proudly part of the Mummamea Network. Is written
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: and narrated by me Georgia Love and produced by Linda Scott.
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: If you have a story you'd like to share, email
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: podcast at momamea dot com dot au. You can support
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: us by following the show in your favorite podcast app
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: and leaving a five star review. We'll see you for
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: the next episode.