Latest / Salish Wolf / #96 Holger Berty on Project Quiver

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#96 Holger Berty on Project Quiver · Salish Wolf

• 0:06
  Welcome to Project Quiver, a father daughter journey across
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  the globe to document the artistry and spirit of the
• 0:11
  world's finest traditional bowyers.
• 0:13
  I'm Todd and Ella is my daughter.
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  Together we've traveled to the workshops of master bowyers,
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  carving bows under their guidance, photographing their
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  work in extraordinary detail, and preserving the stories
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  behind one of humanity's oldest crafts.
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  The result is Quiver, the art of Life Through Bow Craft, a
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  photographic and narrative exploration of traditional bow
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  carving, this podcast shares stories and experiences of the
• 0:36
  remarkable individuals who are carrying forward the enduring
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  legacy of the bow and arrow. The book is Quiver.
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  The journey is Project Quipper. Welcome to the Salish Wolf
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  podcast. How do I pronounce your name?
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  Is it Holger? Yes, it's Holger.
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  Holger OK, Well, it's nice to meet you.
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  Yeah, it's nice to meet you. Where are you calling in from
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  today? I'm at home now and was already
• 1:03
  a little long day in the workshop.
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  Yeah, I'll build some bows and I think I can say good morning to
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  you now. It is morning here, yes?
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  Yeah, evening to you. I did.
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  Thank you. Yeah.
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  Are you in Germany? Yes, I'm in Germany.
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  Whereabouts. It's tubing.
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  It's close to Stuttgart. OK.
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  Yeah. And is that, is that where
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  you're from? Did you grow up there?
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  No, no, no. I am from western Germany.
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  It's I'm born in the city called Zabrukun, and that's very close
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  to the French border. Yeah, but now I'm here and I I
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  changed a lot, my space, where I lived.
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  Now I'm here with my family. You have children.
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  Yes, I have children. You know what I, I have a
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  daughter like you. She is 15 years old and it would
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  be so cool to have you both here.
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  You asked me if you can visit us, but I was super busy.
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  I and this time I worked like kind of Carpenter.
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  I, I don't know the word in English.
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  It's, it's restoration furniture and stuff.
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  And there was no no free time to to meet and do something out of
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  the plan. Is that a full time job for you
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  then? Restoring furniture.
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  Not now, I I finished that, it was just for some months for or
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  maybe a year or something like that and now I'm full time in my
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  bow workshop. Congratulations.
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  Cool and million ways, but also quite hard business.
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  Yeah. So have you just started now
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  being full time as a buyer? For me it was, it was every time
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  a little bit something else in hand, hand crafting stuff.
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  I I made all the things out of wood and I started as as
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  Internet was really new and I I had some ideas and I placed it
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  on the market and some of them runs very good.
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  And the aim was all the time to to build both.
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  That was my passion all the time and yes, it's like it's like
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  that all the time, but wobbling. Is that what is in my life
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  everyday? How did you get experience as a
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  woodworker? How did that begin?
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  I, I learned it by, by a friend actually in the in the late 90s
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  I met a guy who built bows. He built self bows and that was
• 3:58
  very fascinating for me. And so I started also building
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  wood bows. I asked him if he can show me
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  how to process both and he he did not talk so much to me and I
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  was just looking what he was doing.
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  So I started with handcrafting and yes, my father was also
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  building all the time stuff and I was interesting in that I
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  learned for I don't know how it's, it's in English.
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  I'm a therapist too. Yes, but that's not what I do
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  now. I am a handcraft.
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  I'm a ball builder actually. OK.
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  What kind of therapy were you doing?
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  It's Abu therapy. It's kind of manual therapy.
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  OK, yeah, I type a massage. No, it's not that.
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  If people have an accident or you know the word apoplex, yes,
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  is there. If something happened like this,
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  I had them to come back in life. OK.
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  Yeah, and yeah. Wow.
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  Shooting goals also would myth holds to to come back in life
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  for any reason. So in the 90s you were
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  introduced to Beau Carving and have you been carving ever since
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  then? Yes, there are times where I'm
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  where this was more intense. And there was also some years
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  where I don't build so much bows.
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  That's that's clear. But I would say for the last 10
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  years, it was in every week. I was building bows in every
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  kind of style. I was looking for new
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  inspirations. And yeah.
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  So you must have been a teenager then when you started?
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  I started in, I started bow building or I built my first
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  really functional bows in 19198 and I was 18 in this time and
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  before my father built me some hazelnuts bows and I was like
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  fascinated about Robin Hood and stuff like that.
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  So it was all the time. It was in my head.
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  So I don't ask for it. It came to me.
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  Yeah, you know, most of the people I've interviewed are
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  carving more primitive self bows.
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  You have a a pretty different perspective on bow carving,
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  don't you? Can you describe your bows a
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  bit? Yeah, I think it could be a good
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  idea to build some styles of bows.
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  For example, you build primitive bows or you build recurve bows,
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  laminated bows or whatever you want to build.
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  And so we have experience in one style of bows.
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  So it could be a good fundament for go ahead and yeah, sell
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  bows. And for me, it was very
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  important to to look around at what is happening in
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  handcrafting bows in every possibilities.
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  I I was looking which culture had built which bow and which
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  time and why they did it like that.
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  And so I started this primitive bows because it was very easy.
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  You could just go in the wood, cut the tree and it's after a
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  while you can build a bow very simple and it felt very cool
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  because you can do something with your own hands and it's
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  functional and makes a lot of fun.
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  So, but at one point the moment was come coming where I decided,
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  OK, I need to prove it a little bit.
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  And I started to build a fiberglass bows.
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  And, and this is cool because you, you can't plan it more.
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  It's not that adventure to build a fiberglass bow because you
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  know the materials, you know how to, how to process the whole
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  stuff. And but I was fascinated,
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  fascinated about all natural materials.
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  And at one point I was so much deep in building these turfish
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  biocomposite bows. I was totally lost in height,
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  glue and horn and cluing cores together.
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  And I saw, I found myself in a moment where I saw, OK, there
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  are so many disciplines of building bows and all of them
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  have good reasons. And I pick out the best moments
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  of every style and put it together.
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  And for me, bow building is developing new things, new bows
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  all the time. And I like, I like Turkish bows.
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  I like, I don't know, I like these modern pyrocloth bows.
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  I love primitive bows and yeah, for me it's like a journey.
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  It's it's, it will not end. You can find, you can lost
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  yourself in little details. For example, you, you choose the
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  pigments and mix it with oil and then you make your own finish.
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  You can use material like bamboo, you can use horn, you
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  can use wood or Carbone, whatever you want.
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  And yeah, it's never ending story and there's no day where I
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  wake up and I feel like, oh, old buildings boring, you know, And
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  the whole hand crafting process is interesting for me.
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  But also shooting. I mean building bows without
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  without shooting and don't use them.
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  It's not. So yeah, it's not.
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  It's not a closed circle, you know what I mean?
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  I want to talk about your archery in a bit, but I want to
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  stick with bow building right now.
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  So you, based on your Instagram, you're doing a lot of bows with
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  laminate layers, large risers, arrow shells.
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  Can you talk a bit about some of those bows?
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  To me? Those are, I mean, that's a
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  whole nother creation. I've I've done many laminate
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  bows, but I've never done anything with a big riser or
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  I've never had a narrow shelf. And so a lot of your bows kind
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  of have a modern shape to them, but you're using natural
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  material. So can you talk a bit about
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  those bows? Yeah.
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  So the idea is these are fiberglass laminated bows.
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  Usually you you used 1mm fiberglass or the little thinner
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  stuff and in the middle you put in the best case good material
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  and a good idea how is the shape of the bow, what should the bow
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  doing and stuff like that. And I mean, you can build a very
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  fast and easy simple laminated bow, but my aim is all the time
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  to build a good laminated bow. And I, I was looking to bring it
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  in a port to a point where the both are really fast and well
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  shooting. And that was also I, I think I,
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  I did it for years to develop well functional and good looking
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  forms. And for me, the aim is to use so
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  much natural materials like possible and so less epoxy and
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  fiberglass. How, how it needs, you know, and
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  yeah, for me, it's cool to use the woods around my house or
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  around the workshop. And I like to cut the woods.
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  I, you know, I have a like AI don't know a bandsaw where you
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  can cut trees like 5m long, a ton heavy.
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  And there I can pick the, the, the good pieces of wood out and
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  I, I choose very, yeah, good material to have the best
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  performance. And so you can also have a lot
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  of passion in building laminated bows.
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  You can create a bow that's very well shooting and unproblematic.
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  So I never shoot a bow from another borrower that is built
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  with Epsi and fiberglass. It was not a motive, I had no
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  motivation to to do that. I started with primitive bows
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  and so the whole spirit is important for me.
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  It's cool to to use this modern materials to have a good bow
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  that is looking nice and shooting cool.
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  But I never would use, for example, epoxy by a Turkish
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  composite bow. It feels not right to use sinew
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  and epoxy. And for me it should be clean in
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  a way. Maybe I'm nerdy in that point,
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  but that's important for me. I mean, if I use fiberglass, I
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  can use also high efficient luck for, for the finish.
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  You know that that's but I never would use a finish, a high
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  chemical finish for a wooden bow, That's not cool.
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  Yeah. So you're keeping your modern
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  bows with modern materials and your primitive bows with
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  primitive materials. Yeah.
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  OK, what I don't use is Carbone because if you send it you have
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  blab it in the air anyway and it's so light.
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  The dust is so light you will find it everywhere also in your
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  lungs. And I don't feel like destroying
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  my my health by using. Yeah.
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  And I I see I don't need it. I don't need carbon Tabernacle
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  bows. Do you have a particular with
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  your laminate bows? Do you have particular woods
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  that are your favorites for the back?
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  The core of the belly? Yeah, definitely.
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  I mean you, you need to look how heavy should the bowl be and how
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  long is the bow. And I mean, the aim is to avoid
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  too many mass and weight. And if you it's, it's a little
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  bit different. If you build a 80 LB bow, maybe
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  you put not the worst material in the core for that.
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  What I found over the years, a very good material even to build
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  a wooden bows or bamboo composite bows.
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  And that is European cherry wood.
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  Maybe you can also use black cherry or stuff like that.
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  And I built a cherry wood bow with a bamboo backing 20 years
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  ago. And then I built another one and
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  I used cherry wood for the core of laminated bows.
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  And then I, I remembered me. Hey, all these bows are really
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  cool. Well, shooting and I did not had
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  any problem with these and then I was looking for getting trees
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  out of cherry wood and then for me it's cool to yeah because I
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  can cut them by myself and so I have a lot of material and I I
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  don't need to buy bamboo stuff was was so bamboo is also cool.
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  I mean this panels of bamboo that I used so often and in in
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  bow building, these are they are all coming from China.
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  What's OK? But I need to pay for them And
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  bamboo is not so lightweight like other good natural woods
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  like cherry wood. Cherry wood have very good
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  physical skills and that's that's easy.
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  Let's slide white. I mean and yeah, gives looks
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  nice and gives very good both. So if you ask me that, I like
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  cherrywood a lot. What layer are you using that
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  for? Are you using it in the back?
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  As well as the core. No, no, never.
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  Never on the back you. Can just take it in the core and
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  you just use it. This fiberglass orbit bamboo
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  baking or belly. I think you can also build self
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  balls from cherry wood, but maybe it's not so good by
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  tension. Yeah, yeah.
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  So. And then it looks like you have
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  different woods and the ear mixing into the risers.
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  Is it? Is that something that is more
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  artistic based? Yeah for sure.
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  I like the aspects of hand crafting like gluing woods
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  together and mix the wood and that's looking cool.
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  And so often the, the people who asked me to build a bow for
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  them, they are fascinated about it.
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  So they, they, they ask me for furnitures and stuff like that.
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  And I like it, like to do it, to process it to, to create it
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  together. But I also talk with my clients
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  because sometimes you don't need so many parts of wood because
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  the wood, just one piece of wood, can be so beautiful.
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  So I also ask them if they don't need a simple bow.
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  You know what I mean? Yes.
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  Yeah. So I like it in the handcrafting
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  way, but for myself I don't need it.
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  So and usually I I use heavy woods for the riser to to
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  generate weight in the handle area to avoid vibrations.
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  You have many ways to avoid vibrations, but this point is 1.
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  So yeah. And that's one one point.
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  The problem is I don't feel so well by using these Amazonas
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  woods or tropical woods because I think they are all harvested
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  and not a good way and I think that should be clear.
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  And also that's the point over that I talked with my clients
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  because you have also other possibilities that are very
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  pretty for this reasons. So what type of woods are you
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  using for the risers usually? I'm sure you have quite a
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  variety, but. Yeah, you ask me.
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  Sometimes the people ask me what type of wood you use and I don't
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  know how many time you have. You have hundreds.
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  Hundreds of types, probably. Yeah.
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  OK, any favourites that you're working with that you are able
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  to source more sustainably? But I feel a little bit shame
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  about it and that this is Siri Koda.
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  It's super pretty and super heavy and yeah, super nice
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  looking. I don't have some of that year
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  round me. Where?
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  Is that from? I think it's from Africa, yeah.
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  Western Africa, yeah. And Coco Bolo's also nice, but
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  also the same problem. But you know you can use the
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  most woods from the fruit trees like apple trees and stuff and
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  they are not so heavy. But the point to avoid vibration
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  is you can neutral the vibration in the bow by the by the length
• 20:48
  of a bow and the middle of a bow.
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  Maybe you know if you take a latch and you take it in the
• 20:55
  middle and you start to shake it, it will shake like a hand
• 20:59
  shock in the bowl. But then change your point of
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  the hand maybe a little little bit higher or deeper and then
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  shake again. And you would see, ah, at 1
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  moment it feels very comfortable.
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  And so you can manage the problem by a hand shock and you
• 21:18
  don't need to use heavy woods. And yes, cool to to to take
• 21:23
  everything what you can use. But yeah, I build very heavy
• 21:28
  bows that are very comfortable to shoot is lightweight wood.
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  For example, I built today I finished a bamboo composite bowl
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  like backing natural bamboo called cherry and belly bamboo
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  with an audience and like it was crawl and in the middle is ash
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  and the the crib is not so heavy, but you don't feel if you
• 21:53
  shoot, it's very comfortable to shoot.
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  And that's a good example for the point you don't need
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  tropical woods. That is super expensive and may
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  be problematic by the where it comes from and how it is
• 22:10
  harvested. So bamboo on the belly, I'm sure
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  you have experience doing that. It's a very common thing, of
• 22:19
  course, in Japan. But have you found that works
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  really well in your bills? Yeah, Yeah.
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  Like I said, bamboo is not the the lightweight is material that
• 22:30
  you can find. So it's important how you use
• 22:34
  it. I think it's cool for the
• 22:39
  backing and the belly for the kinds of forces that are in
• 22:45
  bending process. And if you build a bowl
• 22:50
  absolutely 100% of bamboo, it's maybe it's a little bit heavy in
• 22:57
  by his own. And then it's a good idea to put
• 23:00
  something lighter in the core, like cherry wood or maybe you
• 23:06
  wood or or stuff like that. And yeah, there are so many
• 23:13
  styles of bamboo bows, the most of them coming out of Asia.
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  And it's good to to have a look how the Boreas in Japan, for
• 23:24
  example, crafting their bows and what they what they are doing.
• 23:29
  And the, the the main problem by bamboo bagged bows is, yeah, you
• 23:38
  can build a very simple bowl like bamboo backing and you
• 23:42
  choose a, a wood like Osage or, or or you or heavier woods like
• 23:49
  you can make a lot of combinations.
• 23:51
  That's not so the problem. And that's very easy to to to
• 23:56
  prove a bow project. If you don't have a piece of
• 23:59
  wood that is so nice crown that you can create a, a self bowl
• 24:05
  for. As for me, it was the the first
• 24:07
  bowl I built was a Hickory bowl built with stumblebagging.
• 24:13
  And I never would do this now, but it was cool.
• 24:18
  I was proud of it and it gives me a lot of inspirations.
• 24:22
  And yeah, at at the end it it was broken.
• 24:27
  It's not possible in my situation if I think about it.
• 24:31
  But yeah, you can use like bamboo just in the packing.
• 24:37
  And then if you decide to build a bamboo composite bow like
• 24:42
  begging core and belly, then the whole problematic is very heavy
• 24:49
  because you have to manage the tillering and the the the
• 24:54
  strength of the bow in the moment of cluing.
• 24:58
  So you have little possibilities about shaping it, about the, the
• 25:03
  edge and the, the, the layout. But this is eliminated in one
• 25:10
  way. So if somebody asked me for
• 25:13
  bamboo composite bowl, for example, and he asked me for, I
• 25:17
  don't know, 40 LB, It's a little bit heavy to bring it to a
• 25:22
  point. If you build AU bowl with bamboo
• 25:27
  packing, you can tiller it out and maybe at one point it's too
• 25:30
  light, but you can aim to aim the the throw wide and you can
• 25:37
  find very well. Yeah.
• 25:39
  And I, I like bamboo. You can temper it, You can use
• 25:42
  it in so many ways. In Japanese bow building and
• 25:48
  making the Yumi with a bamboo back and the bamboo belly, the
• 25:52
  nodes are offset. Do you do that as well?
• 25:55
  And when you do bamboo backing and belly, so the nodes don't
• 25:58
  line up on the back? Yeah, with the nodes on the
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  belly. OK.
• 26:02
  Absolutely. OK, Yeah, if you do, yeah, you
• 26:07
  need to do it to don't cut the the virus.
• 26:11
  That's the problem. You can don't, you don't have
• 26:15
  the possibility to to make a bamboo easy flat.
• 26:21
  If you make a good bamboo backing, it's nearly a whole bow
• 26:26
  because you have no, no flat surfaces because it's like
• 26:32
  concave. It's was growing concave, convex
• 26:35
  in a in a, in a way. And yeah, that's the point.
• 26:40
  And if you combinate these bows, like in Japan this Yumi bows,
• 26:47
  you need to look at the bamboo very well.
• 26:50
  Where are the notes and and which point notes will meet in
• 26:54
  the bow? Yeah, that's, that's cool
• 26:58
  process that I like also a lot. So with the risers, they add
• 27:03
  some densities to the bow to reduce hand shock.
• 27:06
  What are some of the other functions of a riser?
• 27:09
  I don't think I've ever shot a bow with a riser.
• 27:11
  I basically only shoot primitive self bows are primitive laminate
• 27:16
  bows so I don't think I've ever shot with a riser.
• 27:19
  Yeah, so if you use a big riser you have I have a lot of
• 27:25
  possibilities to make a nice ergonomic.
• 27:29
  So some people like it to shoot more like with a hand like that
• 27:34
  and traditional it's more like that.
• 27:36
  And so can you can create pistol grips and convex grips, concave
• 27:42
  grips, whatever you want. And the high of the crib is
• 27:47
  flexible. You know, you, you just, you
• 27:51
  take a piece of wood. I don't know, I have here a
• 27:54
  recurve bow and between my fingers is the crib.
• 28:00
  And you, you need to imagine that this piece of wood was
• 28:05
  nearly twice as big before, because here it was like a
• 28:10
  block. And the high between my fingers
• 28:15
  decides about what's is there for create for a ergonomic crip.
• 28:23
  And if you build a self bow, you often have the problem.
• 28:28
  Maybe the wood is have some cracks while it was drying and
• 28:33
  you need to cut it. Or you could need to glue
• 28:35
  something on it to create a crib that is nice for your hand.
• 28:41
  And by using a riser wood, you can choose every every factor to
• 28:49
  make it cool for your hand. And yeah, I think I can, I can
• 28:55
  use, I cannot shoot this, this grip.
• 29:00
  But some people don't like it. They never would shoot a normal
• 29:05
  Longbow grip or sexbow grip like it is done usually.
• 29:09
  And they decided, Oh yeah, I need a pistol grip because my
• 29:12
  hand and whatever. So if you use risers, you have
• 29:17
  the possibility to shape it in so many ways.
• 29:24
  So you learned the basic art of bow building from your friend
• 29:29
  back in the 90s. How did you learn all of these
• 29:31
  more more advanced types of bows and techniques?
• 29:35
  I think it's trial and error as well.
• 29:42
  Maybe the the best way to to make new experiences, to steal
• 29:51
  with your eyes, look what other Boris do and then make your own
• 29:57
  ideas and make tests. And you if you're interested in
• 30:05
  building bows, you have the possibility to look in history.
• 30:11
  So many cultures have built their own bows because there was
• 30:19
  need in a special reason to do war or hunting.
• 30:24
  And you can there's a lot of information that you can use for
• 30:30
  make your own style. But at the end, I'm not the guy
• 30:37
  that is opening a book and reading 2 hours to understand
• 30:41
  how a bow is is is done. So I just looked at the the
• 30:47
  pictures and then I build a bowl and after I builded it, I start
• 30:51
  to read the book and that was the last 30 years.
• 30:57
  My style of getting new experience in building those
• 31:01
  just try and I, I mean talk with other boys and it's a cool way.
• 31:07
  If other people ask me how to build a bowl, even if they are
• 31:13
  don't have any idea to build a bowl, I think why not tell them
• 31:18
  what I have learned so they can start by, by by another level.
• 31:24
  They don't need to make so much calls.
• 31:27
  Yeah. Have you had any particular
• 31:29
  teachers over the years? I had my teacher in the in the
• 31:36
  90s was a really good teacher because he did it on a high
• 31:44
  level already and I could learn a lot from him.
• 31:48
  He was a super master in handcrafting.
• 31:52
  He was Carpenter and already and that gives me a lot of
• 32:00
  experience already in the past. And at one point our ways were
• 32:07
  separated because I changed my place in Germany.
• 32:11
  And then I developed my own style.
• 32:14
  And that was also kind of important to find to do what I
• 32:19
  want to do. And I don't I don't wanted to
• 32:25
  know how other people decided to do it.
• 32:29
  I found my style and from that point I was going ahead.
• 32:34
  And then I looked around. OK, did this guy or what this
• 32:38
  Boyer is making that problematic?
• 32:43
  He proves it like that or whatever.
• 32:45
  And yeah, I think in a way it's it it's it's a style that I
• 32:53
  found for myself. And yeah.
• 32:58
  And you have a professional boy, you have the problematic if the
• 33:01
  people come to you and they ask if you build me a bow like that
• 33:06
  and I go to competition, is it a problem in which style group of
• 33:11
  bow I can shoot? And I said, yes, maybe there's a
• 33:17
  in this competition you can shoot it as a long bow, there's
• 33:21
  a primitive bow, whatever. But for me it was not the reason
• 33:26
  how to to develop a bow. I decided I will go in this
• 33:32
  direction. And then at the end I have maybe
• 33:35
  a hybrid bow. And yeah, it was maybe not the
• 33:40
  good, the best idea to sell bows at that point because the people
• 33:43
  are could not shoot it on the competition in a special group.
• 33:49
  But for me it was was not counting because I want to
• 33:53
  wanted to build really good bows.
• 33:56
  Yeah, I think it's funny. Is your original teacher still
• 34:00
  teaching or still carving? Yes, he's he's special because I
• 34:06
  he don't have the cell phone. He don't use Internet.
• 34:10
  It was super, it was super crazy because I met this guy at the
• 34:14
  point, you know, I'm in the mode of I like Robin Hood and, but I
• 34:18
  don't have any idea how to build boats.
• 34:20
  And this guy came in the late 90s.
• 34:23
  I met him, he was around my circle of people and he had this
• 34:29
  70 LB Osage sailpool sinew back to this rattlesnake.
• 34:35
  And my mind was blowing away. And from that moment I was
• 34:40
  falling in love by building boats and I was lost.
• 34:43
  I, I really was lost. And I, I met him some months ago
• 34:50
  and I saw him for a long time not and yeah, he's still
• 34:55
  processing balls and he's a master.
• 34:58
  He was winning a lot of important competition and
• 35:03
  competitions. And what's cool, Yeah, he's not
• 35:08
  using Internet. He's really, he's not talking a
• 35:11
  lot and he's just building good balls.
• 35:14
  And it's really a gift to me to, to met him.
• 35:18
  His name is Christophe Clauden. You never will find him in
• 35:22
  Instagram or Internet because you don't know how to use a cell
• 35:26
  phone. That's amazing.
• 35:28
  So is he then selling bows just by being at competitions or
• 35:33
  through word of mouth? Yeah, for for what was a couple
• 35:36
  of years, he was selling bows on competitions and he had the work
• 35:41
  workshop and that was his business.
• 35:44
  But yeah, at last, how you want to survive in a modern world
• 35:49
  without using Internet. And that was the problem.
• 35:53
  And at one point he decided, OK, let's do something.
• 35:57
  What brings something in the fridge?
• 36:01
  Yeah, that's awesome. So outside of the to me, there
• 36:07
  are more modern bows with the risers and the fiberglass that
• 36:12
  we're discussing. Are you still carving more
• 36:15
  permitted bows, such as self bows?
• 36:18
  I would say they also like episodes.
• 36:23
  Sometimes the people just ask me for primitive bows or self bows
• 36:28
  and I would say it's half, half would for me.
• 36:35
  It's cool if the people don't ask so much for self bows
• 36:39
  because I don't can calculate that so much.
• 36:43
  I don't know how the the tree was grown or I don't know what,
• 36:47
  what, what knocks are in the wood.
• 36:50
  I, I think you know what you, you build safe post by your own
• 36:53
  and I'm very safe now. I know what I do and I, I can
• 36:57
  get bring it to a point that I can tell the people, yes, I can
• 37:01
  build your bow no problem. And then I choose the the right
• 37:04
  piece of wood. But it's really cool for me to
• 37:08
  have a lot of orders like laminated custom bows so I can
• 37:14
  wake up in the morning and say, OK, Monday, do this Tuesday,
• 37:18
  we'll do that and there will I have a clue that will make the
• 37:23
  finish. And both of it is cool.
• 37:26
  So it's more it's cool to to have the safetiness of class
• 37:34
  laminated bows. They're also really cool bows.
• 37:36
  So also to build. Do you find either style of
• 37:41
  building to be more therapeutic? What's a therapeutic?
• 37:47
  Therapeutic it mean more like for me when I carve bows, it's
• 37:51
  very healing. It's a very meditative process.
• 37:55
  And when I think about carving bows with more modern materials,
• 38:00
  it, which I don't use, but it doesn't, it doesn't call to me
• 38:04
  because I love that aspect of sitting down with a piece of
• 38:07
  wood and really studying that piece of wood and discovering a
• 38:10
  bow within. I love that surprise of like
• 38:13
  what is inside this bow. So I'm just wondering if one of
• 38:16
  those if, if they both kind of have the same spiritual or
• 38:21
  meditative impact for you? Nope, I would say you have to
• 38:31
  build a really cool primitive bowl that will at last be the
• 38:36
  the coolest process in any way. But if you build, if I build a
• 38:44
  modern custom bow, I feel very comfortable.
• 38:51
  Well, while I'm doing it, it's more like like Carpenter work or
• 38:57
  something like that. And if it's finished and I I'm
• 39:02
  very happy with it, you know, it's like something else.
• 39:05
  What's also cool don't maybe don't has the same same spirit
• 39:11
  and the soul like building primitive post but at.
• 39:16
  The end it's a. Unique, also unique boat.
• 39:19
  Sometimes the people call me for years if I have my my birthday,
• 39:26
  just because they have a laminated glass bowl, you know,
• 39:29
  And so there's all kind of spirit and soul inside.
• 39:33
  And it's also cool. But if you ask like that to
• 39:37
  build a primitive bow, it's very special.
• 39:40
  It's a gift to. Yeah.
• 39:44
  Are there any particular woods? That you prefer to use for
• 39:46
  primitive bows. Osage that's.
• 39:49
  Definitely my my favorite wood you can have very good you
• 39:55
  would, but you never know what you get.
• 39:57
  Maybe it's exploring, it's explosion and.
• 40:03
  It was not tell you why a second before, but also just super
• 40:08
  cool. Yeah, that's my favorite route
• 40:12
  to build a boat. Where are you getting it from?
• 40:18
  This is a secret. No, no, no.
• 40:21
  I have some people in in Hungary where I can ask.
• 40:26
  Yeah. In Germany you nearly you never
• 40:29
  will find it. Maybe you can plan it by
• 40:32
  yourself. I I had to do it in this 30
• 40:35
  years ago. But I did not knew that I will
• 40:38
  use it so much. Yeah, it's kind of hard to find
• 40:42
  it. And hey, remember the days you
• 40:45
  could find Osage for $50.00 in Germany?
• 40:49
  It was super cheap. And it's it is it is changing
• 40:55
  because the whole thing by building both by your own you
• 41:02
  can consume and Instagram and YouTube and the people see this
• 41:09
  and I think everybody knew also just a cool bowl with sort of
• 41:13
  people buy the wood and make their own experience.
• 41:17
  What is absolutely cool, but that have yeah, the price is
• 41:24
  getting higher. How much is it for a stave?
• 41:27
  Now a premium stave, I think I pay.
• 41:31
  Around between 80 and 130 bucks for for one stave, and most of
• 41:40
  that's coming from. Hungary, yes.
• 41:43
  Yes, I got also some from the US, but yes, it's more easy to
• 41:51
  find this year around that is closer, Yeah and so performance.
• 41:58
  Wise if you're building a bow, are you?
• 42:02
  What do you find gives you now here with the?
• 42:05
  Composite bows you. Can tweak it more and you can
• 42:08
  custom design it to have particular performance.
• 42:11
  Do you I guess, do you have any self bows that you feel perform
• 42:15
  as well? I know you're people aren't
• 42:18
  normally shooting those side by side in a competition, but do
• 42:21
  you do you have you created some self bows that you feel like
• 42:23
  wow, this is a top performer? Yeah, definitely.
• 42:27
  Definitely. OK, Yeah, Also just a cool
• 42:30
  example, not every tree is so good as the other.
• 42:35
  And what I like in building Osage bows is that you can form
• 42:41
  them like it's like plastic material.
• 42:44
  You can treat them by heat, by by, by dust, by steam and.
• 42:53
  My Osage bows. Are becoming shorter and shorter
• 42:57
  and shorter and for example I showed the Osage bow that is 2
• 43:04
  around 60 inch. It has nearly 60 LB and it
• 43:09
  nearly has no string follow and it is super super fast cool bow.
• 43:15
  And yeah, some bows are better because the tree was super cool
• 43:22
  and what a good sign for good bowls if you have the the crow
• 43:28
  rings and you see it's very. Heavy.
• 43:35
  Material, maybe you see it on the collar or also a little bit.
• 43:39
  And yeah, some trees are giving better, better bows.
• 43:44
  And is that because it's denser? There's more growth rings.
• 43:50
  No, not you can have set crows rings and very slim crows rings
• 43:56
  at the end. The whole thing is how the wood
• 44:00
  is a void string. Follow the the moisture and the
• 44:05
  how dry. This is super important.
• 44:06
  That's clear, but at the end the tree escaping also the bow the
• 44:12
  most the best bows sales. Bows I built are.
• 44:16
  Projects that I, I had, I tried to build a bow and then I put it
• 44:21
  in the corner and after five years I find, find the, the,
• 44:25
  the, the, the stave and I say, OK, maybe it's twisting too
• 44:29
  much. I cut it, I cut it down and then
• 44:32
  I have maybe it's too short and then the bow is super perfect.
• 44:36
  I don't know, maybe. I think you can.
• 44:41
  Build safe bowls very well, very, very good and high quality
• 44:45
  and good performance bows. But to build them every time as
• 44:52
  good as possible, that needs a lot of experience.
• 44:56
  And yeah, every piece of wood has there's a bow inside and the
• 45:06
  the experience is to see it in it.
• 45:09
  And there's the sentence finished self bowl that is full
• 45:17
  draw. It's 99% broken.
• 45:20
  I don't know if that's right, but it shows how thin the line
• 45:26
  is between a Broken Bow and a very poor performing bow right
• 45:31
  we're. Always, always working on the
• 45:33
  edge with bows and it's impossible.
• 45:36
  To know where that edge is until.
• 45:37
  You go over it. At least I think so.
• 45:39
  Maybe other? People know I don't.
• 45:41
  I don't know how do you? Ever build any other?
• 45:44
  Self bows that are not for mosaic Yeah a.
• 45:48
  Lot like Robinia, Arcatia, black locust.
• 45:53
  Yeah, black locust of. Hickory Maple Wow you a lot of
• 45:59
  you bows. Are there any particular types
• 46:02
  of Maple? That you use, yeah.
• 46:05
  It depends on which which reason.
• 46:09
  For a self bowl you can. I think sugar Maple is cool.
• 46:16
  Mountain Maple is cool. I don't know the word in German.
• 46:22
  It's spitz Maple. Yeah, but they had three, three
• 46:28
  maples that I use for Maple bows.
• 46:30
  Yeah, I have so many. Big leaf maples around my farm
• 46:34
  and the the trees just grow completely straight with no
• 46:37
  branching. But I I keep keep reading that
• 46:39
  big leaf is not a good type of Maple to make so I haven't even
• 46:43
  tried. I should probably try, but I
• 46:45
  haven't. Yeah, try build them a.
• 46:47
  Little wider. Yeah, and then you will have a
• 46:51
  good bowl. All right, I'll cut 1 today.
• 46:54
  Ah cool. Yeah, that's nice.
• 46:56
  I've been looking at it for so long.
• 46:57
  I. Should I should just cut 1 and
• 46:59
  season it and see what happens? So I'll do that, Yeah, just try.
• 47:02
  You never know I would more trying other woods if I don't
• 47:09
  would need to sell them. You know, I want to sell them my
• 47:13
  and I want to prove the whole story.
• 47:14
  And so I use the woods where I am safe because the problem is,
• 47:19
  is if I build a sales post. So I I I spent a whole week.
• 47:26
  If in in the. Working time and something went
• 47:29
  wrong. I need to build it again, so I I
• 47:31
  half my income and yeah, I have children and there's no way for
• 47:36
  me but to to explore. It's a cool, cool thing to use.
• 47:41
  Woods that you have never used. Yeah.
• 47:46
  What sort of tools are you using?
• 47:47
  Mostly. And maybe it varies between the
• 47:50
  South bows and the composite bows, yeah.
• 47:54
  The bandsaw is super important and you know, if I build AS
• 47:59
  board, the most of the time I have a band.
• 48:02
  Band grinder. Yeah, Bell Grinder.
• 48:06
  Yeah, I use. Very heavy metal grinding band
• 48:13
  and for for great floor tiller of the sales bowl.
• 48:18
  I nearly finished it by the belt Thunder Center and then nearly 2
• 48:25
  string high breast high. I can I thought, but at last I
• 48:30
  used my hands. I I feel a lot of time.
• 48:33
  I feel the limbs and it's super important to know everything
• 48:39
  that you take away of wood on the limb will have have.
• 48:48
  Kind of. Impact on the on the tailoring
• 48:51
  even it is super, super, super less.
• 48:56
  And I now I, I I see a difference that are nearly
• 49:02
  unvisible and and that's this is experience.
• 49:07
  And so you can build very fast self bows.
• 49:11
  I would say to build A to make the whole tailoring process by
• 49:16
  self bore. I, I need 1/2 hours then then
• 49:21
  it's really finished. So OK, depends on the the wood.
• 49:25
  Maybe you have a piece of Osage that makes crazy movements and
• 49:29
  then something else. But yeah I use the bandsaw if
• 49:34
  you ever ask and many hand tools like rasp builds or rasp rasp.
• 49:40
  And throw. Blades I use and a cool way to
• 49:47
  to get the feedback by tittering is if you have a touching tool.
• 49:51
  If you have a tool that you can where you can change the white
• 49:57
  and one side is a pencil and the other side is like something, a
• 50:02
  stick or everything, just a piece of wood.
• 50:05
  And then you can touch the surface of your bow.
• 50:09
  And with that you can mark like crow rings on your belly.
• 50:16
  And then you see immediately, OK, here's a hole or they're
• 50:20
  just too thick. That's a cool tool to building
• 50:24
  self bows that goes along the belly of the.
• 50:27
  Bow and it's a brace height. No, no, if you build, if you are
• 50:33
  in the tailoring process, yeah, you can like touching the limb
• 50:38
  instead and then you see OK here this to seek or stuff like that.
• 50:44
  And then you, you take wood and this place away.
• 50:47
  And yeah, it's like a image of lines of your pencil.
• 50:52
  And then maybe it's not so easy to explain for me, but this is a
• 50:57
  really cool tool. Maybe I make a post one day
• 51:01
  where you can, if you see it, you know immediately what you
• 51:05
  what I want to explain now. Yeah, I would like to see it.
• 51:09
  Anything to help in the tailoring process?
• 51:12
  Yeah. Yeah, yeah, what I do, what
• 51:16
  other tools I have. Yeah.
• 51:19
  And building laminated bows. I nice taper tape out how you
• 51:25
  say it. Tape up jigs, OK?
• 51:31
  Was the stuff. Like that?
• 51:32
  Yeah, I don't know. I know what you're saying.
• 51:35
  I don't know if there's another word for it.
• 51:37
  Yeah. So earlier you.
• 51:40
  Mentioned archery and how archery is important.
• 51:44
  To you. It's not always the case with
• 51:46
  Bowyers. Talk to a lot about yours, who
• 51:48
  who don't really do much archery, but for you it is.
• 51:51
  Can you talk about the impact of archery on your life?
• 51:54
  Yeah, that's a cool. Way to clean my mind and I like
• 51:58
  it also to meet other people to sometimes it's also cool to go
• 52:04
  on competitions and yeah, shoot some cool competitions and in
• 52:11
  the group of people. And for me, I usually it's like
• 52:16
  if I'm in the workshop like 3 or 4 times in in a week, I shoot 30
• 52:23
  arrows or something like that. And sometimes there, there was
• 52:28
  years I was not so much shooting both because the, the children
• 52:33
  was small and there was no time and yeah, but I, I feel very it
• 52:40
  cleans my mind. It's cool and it's sometimes the
• 52:44
  people talking about bow shootings like a sport, but I
• 52:48
  don't feel like even I I shoot heavy bows like around 50. 5. 60
• 52:55
  LB. What I can handle very well, and
• 52:59
  maybe it's a little bit sport, but I'm more like to talk about
• 53:05
  shooting bows. Like that's like, I don't know,
• 53:09
  like meeting people go in process this between mind and
• 53:17
  body and it's for me, it's cool because I don't need to think
• 53:21
  about anything what going on in the in the world And I just do I
• 53:26
  just go maybe I go in the woods and I roof.
• 53:30
  I do roofing time sometimes, you know, where you your stamp
• 53:33
  shooting and that's like, yeah, make a little round in the woods
• 53:39
  and maybe just close your mouth, listen to the birds looking the
• 53:44
  trees. And yeah, if I finished my
• 53:48
  archery, they I really feel clean and I feel in like deeper,
• 53:56
  like I feel bad equilibrium. Yeah, yeah.
• 54:01
  Same question. I asked with Bo carving, is
• 54:03
  there a style of bow between the primitive self bow and the more
• 54:07
  modern bows that you make that you feel more connected to when
• 54:10
  you're shooting or you feel is more healing or therapeutic?
• 54:15
  Ha ha, good question. Maybe it's a little bit crazy
• 54:24
  but if I if I shoot a bow I'm very happy to don't think about
• 54:32
  the bow. That's also reason because I
• 54:36
  don't like super cool woods and stuff like that and usually I
• 54:42
  have two bows that I shoot. I shoot the most time.
• 54:45
  This is 1 Osage bow self bow with nothing, just a piece of
• 54:50
  wood no. Horn knocks nothing.
• 54:54
  And the other is a modern hybrid hyperclass bow and they are I
• 54:58
  can go totally in shooting yeah. And these are the 22 bows.
• 55:04
  And I would say yeah, depends on the day, what I feel like to to
• 55:10
  do which. Bow I want to shoot.
• 55:14
  So not enough of a. Difference that you really
• 55:17
  notice as far as your connection, No, OK, no, no, it
• 55:21
  feels. Super cool to be with the safe
• 55:23
  boat, the boots, you know that's that's cool and with your
• 55:27
  competitions, are you? Doing more like 3D archery
• 55:31
  courses? Are you doing flight shooting?
• 55:34
  No 3D. Archery courses, that's very
• 55:37
  common in Germany. What's also a little bit crazy,
• 55:42
  I think the, the archery world is getting bigger and bigger and
• 55:45
  we are connected by, I mean, we talk together.
• 55:48
  Now you're in Canada and I'm in, in Europe and here in Germany,
• 55:54
  the whole of bow story was very, yeah, inspirated by the, the
• 56:05
  Americans and, you know, the the Boyers Bible and what the, the,
• 56:11
  the whole hunting point of it was coming to Europe also.
• 56:15
  But here you don't, there are some lands like Poland or French
• 56:21
  where you can hunt with a bow. But the people here, usually
• 56:25
  they don't hunt this. They are both, they are shooting
• 56:28
  like on targets or on competition, like 3D
• 56:33
  competition. And yeah, it's, it's a kind of
• 56:37
  crazy. They are different perspectives
• 56:40
  of, of the whole thematic. And yeah, it's kind of crazy
• 56:47
  because as I started shooting bows, we shoot hunting bows.
• 56:52
  We never go go to a hunt with a bow.
• 56:55
  But we are inspired by this whole story of out of America
• 57:00
  and was like fascinating for us. But yeah, it's so the people are
• 57:06
  also on competitions. They shoot like they are hunting
• 57:11
  and they shoot strong bows. And now the people don't shoot
• 57:14
  that strong bows like 30 years ago.
• 57:18
  They shoot more. Yeah, lightweight bows and
• 57:23
  carbon arrows and that is, that is changing a little bit.
• 57:27
  What's also cool, but it's changing, you know, how has your
• 57:34
  archery? And bow carving inspired or
• 57:37
  impacted people on your family, your children or others, my son.
• 57:42
  Is absolute cool with that. He's really I, he's six years
• 57:47
  old and I, I built him a super simple bamboo bow and I told him
• 57:52
  not a lot. I said, just here, take this bow
• 57:55
  here, your arrows and make your thing.
• 57:57
  And I don't want it to treat him so hard, you know, And he's,
• 58:03
  he's a well good small shooter. If, if I see that or how he
• 58:08
  shoots, I could say, Hey, don't use that thing or put the arrow
• 58:12
  on the other side of the bow. But I don't, don't do that.
• 58:16
  And this little guy is I mean he he's a good shooter and at that
• 58:21
  point you can learn from children.
• 58:23
  The adult just talk about how is the right way to shoot.
• 58:28
  Maybe the Turkish people put the arrow on the right side shooting
• 58:32
  with the dump. Then the in Europe and America
• 58:36
  that you use your three fingers where to knock split finger
• 58:40
  whatever you can talk days and months and months but a good
• 58:45
  ideas to see how children use a bow.
• 58:49
  They have really connected and yeah you I think you kind of
• 58:54
  learn a lot Yeah that's cool and the other parts of my family are
• 59:01
  not so connected by the whole thematic.
• 59:05
  I think as I met my wife for she it was cool Wow you a boy or
• 59:10
  that's cool. But now we have met a point
• 59:15
  where she is OK Now you do it for so long, man.
• 59:19
  Why you do it? Yeah.
• 59:22
  And my daughter. Yeah.
• 59:23
  Yeah. My daughter has also a bow.
• 59:27
  But she's not so interesting. What's OK?
• 59:30
  I mean, they should do what they want to do.
• 59:33
  Yeah. Are there any Bowers out there
• 59:37
  who you really look up to And OK, absolutely.
• 59:42
  I think that's. Also an important point to have
• 59:47
  people that inspires you and the guy that I really, that school
• 59:55
  guy is Eva Milder. He's building the Turkish
• 59:58
  biocomposite bows and that's super cool what he's doing.
• 1:00:07
  Yeah, and other borers. I am connected to other boys
• 1:00:10
  that I like a lot. Yeah.
• 1:00:13
  For example, since some months I'm in contact with some seaman
• 1:00:20
  from safe Boat Pumped. See how Steve pumped H?
• 1:00:24
  He's in Switzerland. Simon Cowell.
• 1:00:26
  Yeah. Yeah, he's doing lots.
• 1:00:28
  Of good stuff. I think you you had contact with
• 1:00:32
  him? Yeah, I visited with him and
• 1:00:33
  made a. Boat.
• 1:00:34
  Yeah, he's, he's, he's a genius in the workshop.
• 1:00:37
  And yeah, it's like his. Laboratory he.
• 1:00:40
  Experiments with so many different designs.
• 1:00:43
  And styles and. Materials and he's he's very
• 1:00:46
  precise and intuitive in his bow carving.
• 1:00:49
  He makes some amazing bows, yeah.
• 1:00:52
  Yeah, it was cool to met him. I made holidays in Switzerland
• 1:00:56
  and then we met there in his house and Oh yes, was was cool.
• 1:01:00
  Because. You know, it was like talking
• 1:01:03
  about both and then we need to catch up.
• 1:01:06
  A child from any school, and then he came home to eat and in
• 1:01:11
  the workshop, talking about both, then the other child, you
• 1:01:14
  know, it was like that. Yeah.
• 1:01:17
  He looks after all three. Of them quite well so they're
• 1:01:20
  getting old enough almost to take care of themselves but he
• 1:01:22
  still takes a lot of time It's it's pretty cool the life that
• 1:01:25
  he has created. He's a retired lawyer and so for
• 1:01:29
  years and years he was in obviously a very different
• 1:01:33
  profession that was really very stressful for him and he just he
• 1:01:37
  dreamt of one day having what he has now which is he stays at
• 1:01:41
  home looks after his kids while his wife is working and cars go
• 1:01:46
  yeah, yeah. I.
• 1:01:49
  Wish that would would be for me the same but for me it's also a
• 1:01:54
  kind of business. This is I need to make money
• 1:01:58
  while I'm building boats. What is super nice but it's kind
• 1:02:02
  of hard. Also any other inspirations?
• 1:02:08
  Yeah, there are. A lot of other warriors in
• 1:02:10
  Germany there are a lot of common private class warriors.
• 1:02:16
  Woody bike is 1. Akim steak Maya is 1.
• 1:02:20
  He has Hano out of Hamburg. He's building primitive Bose.
• 1:02:25
  Maybe it's also interesting for you.
• 1:02:28
  He's building no fiberglass Bose, Hano Berner or or
• 1:02:35
  something like that. I I need to look at his family
• 1:02:38
  name, other cool people. Yeah, there are some good sales
• 1:02:47
  ball makers. There's Conrad Fugler.
• 1:02:50
  You know, these are the old guys.
• 1:02:52
  I met them as I started shooting bows.
• 1:02:54
  They are still building sales bows and I looked up for them
• 1:03:00
  and some of them are now so old that they finish their work.
• 1:03:08
  It astounds. Me.
• 1:03:09
  How many bowyers exist in this world?
• 1:03:13
  Unbelievable. Yeah.
• 1:03:14
  When my daughter and I started. This project, we had no idea,
• 1:03:17
  and now it's just like, wow, like we could do that.
• 1:03:19
  We could probably write a book every year and still only
• 1:03:23
  scratch the surface on the number of bowyers.
• 1:03:27
  Yeah, what I want to say, Yeah, it's not so easy to see really.
• 1:03:37
  I think it's hard to see if you see the the the cool pictures on
• 1:03:40
  Instagram and all stuff like that to see where's really good
• 1:03:44
  for your for your Ian, where's really good handcrafters.
• 1:03:47
  Sometimes you see images on Instagram, you think, wow,
• 1:03:51
  that's mind blowing. But you if you know it really
• 1:03:55
  good, you see, OK, it's nothing special.
• 1:03:58
  And sometimes you have people that has super nice boys, but
• 1:04:04
  they are not in the Internet game, like my master for
• 1:04:08
  example. And yeah, or some people are
• 1:04:12
  like businessmen, they show their post by Internet and they
• 1:04:16
  make a real show of it. And yeah, we have, we are living
• 1:04:22
  in a super fast world and the most loud things are the the
• 1:04:26
  things that are seen by the people.
• 1:04:29
  But I think if you're really interested in making both, it's
• 1:04:34
  necessary to look really good. What is there happening?
• 1:04:39
  And that needs time. And yeah, but I think to develop
• 1:04:45
  in making both, it's super important to take a stop, don't
• 1:04:49
  be so fast and look what is happening in the handcraft.
• 1:04:53
  Really. It's not the Super cool recover
• 1:04:57
  the Super cool 3 seconds of shooting set for video.
• 1:05:04
  I'm a little bit fucked up about this false password and I think
• 1:05:07
  it's not so important, but in another way, it's super
• 1:05:12
  inspiring. Also, for example, Eva Mulder I
• 1:05:17
  found by Instagram, you know, I never had met him.
• 1:05:22
  And that's a lot of inspiration. And so then you can start to
• 1:05:28
  make conversation. I remember another cool boy here
• 1:05:32
  that he's also in Switzerland. His name is Alex Whittaker.
• 1:05:37
  He's also his company. The name is Madison Bose.
• 1:05:44
  And also, yeah, I met him too and he visited me at home and it
• 1:05:50
  was like, OK, we are friends since beginning.
• 1:05:52
  It's I feel very close to him because, yeah, we had the same
• 1:05:57
  minds. What sort of who if you build
• 1:06:00
  both you do the same movements and and then in a way you you
• 1:06:05
  are connected because yeah, I just think the same minds you do
• 1:06:11
  do do the same stuff. And this is something that you
• 1:06:15
  can't cannot explain. You're in browser in minds like
• 1:06:19
  yeah, handcraft. Yeah, I know.
• 1:06:21
  I. Find myself now everywhere I go,
• 1:06:24
  I'm just looking at the trees and the plants like is there OK?
• 1:06:26
  Is there a stave in that? And my kids are just they we go
• 1:06:30
  for a hike and I stop and I touched it and sapling so they
• 1:06:35
  know exactly what I'm doing. I'm just like digging out over
• 1:06:38
  all the potential beau wood. I know, I know exactly.
• 1:06:41
  See what you mean? Yeah.
• 1:06:42
  What? Does the brand that you carve
• 1:06:45
  your bows under. I don't have a brand, you know.
• 1:06:49
  My my name is Holger Barty. So that's this is my brand.
• 1:06:53
  OK, Yeah. These are Barty bows if you
• 1:06:57
  want. And where can people?
• 1:07:00
  Find more about your your work. I have a home page.
• 1:07:03
  What? Is very old school and I'm not
• 1:07:07
  the online manager too. And if people are interesting in
• 1:07:12
  what I do, they should visit my my homepage like Olga Piatti and
• 1:07:18
  Boyer Boggenbauer. They should just Google it OK
• 1:07:22
  and then they should go on the gallery.
• 1:07:24
  The the homepage is just in in German.
• 1:07:27
  But yeah, then you can see pictures and see what I do.
• 1:07:32
  OK, and you do have an. Instagram too, right?
• 1:07:35
  Yes. This is the RT Boldenbauer.
• 1:07:41
  You know you'll see. I don't remember.
• 1:07:43
  I'll put it in the show notes. Yeah, yeah, I.
• 1:07:46
  Like I like to put videos on Instagram, but it's more like AI
• 1:07:51
  like to show what I do and sometimes I look around.
• 1:07:55
  But yeah, I don't like to stay so long time on Instagram
• 1:08:01
  because I have all the things to do.
• 1:08:03
  I love, I love. The the concept of those, those
• 1:08:10
  carvers that you're talking about who have no online
• 1:08:13
  presence at all. I would I would love to be that,
• 1:08:15
  But it's also it's also hard to have conversations with people
• 1:08:19
  like you and to meet bowyers and to write a book.
• 1:08:22
  So it's I enjoy to talk with. You I super, super like it it's
• 1:08:28
  cool for me. I never have done it.
• 1:08:29
  I I have a Zoom call once in my life in corona time with the
• 1:08:35
  school of my daughter. That's all you know.
• 1:08:40
  Oh, thank you for doing it. I appreciate it.
• 1:08:41
  It's been great talking to you and learning about your work and
• 1:08:45
  your life. So thank you.
• 1:08:47
  Yeah. So if you want to.
• 1:08:49
  Visit me. You're welcome.
• 1:08:51
  Just hi. I hope you see in real life
• 1:08:55
  once. Thank you.
• 1:08:56
  Yeah, I would. Love to do that sometime.
• 1:08:59
  All right. Well, have a great day.
• 1:09:02
  Yeah, Todd. Nice to meet you.
• 1:09:04
  Have a nice day. Thank you.
• 1:09:11
  Thanks for listening to project. Quiver on Salish Wolf Follow our
• 1:09:15
  journey on Instagram and YouTube at Project Quiver Official as we
• 1:09:18
  discover the world's most extraordinary traditional
• 1:09:20
  bowyers and join our newsletter at projectquiver.com.
• 1:09:24
  Quiver, the Art of Life through Bow Craft, Our photographic and
• 1:09:27
  narrative exploration of traditional bow carving
• 1:09:30
  published by Trope, will be available in fall 2026.
• 1:09:33
  We are honored to share with you the beauty, tradition, and magic
• 1:09:37
  of the bow and arrow. The book is Quiver.
• 1:09:40
  The. Journey is Project Quiver.
• 1:09:42
  This is the Salish Wolf podcast.