Latest / Bengals Booth Podcast / Bengals Booth Podcast: You Don't Live In Cleveland

Transcript

Bengals Booth Podcast: You Don't Live In Cleveland · Bengals Booth Podcast

0:03
Speaker 1: Hike and everybody. I'm Dan Horde and this is the
0:06
Speaker 1: Bengals Booth Podcast, You Don't Live in Cleveland Edition. If
0:11
Speaker 1: we get you set for the next to last game
0:13
Speaker 1: of the year between the six and eight Bengals and
0:15
Speaker 1: the six, seven and one Browns in Cleveland's first Energy Stadium,
0:20
Speaker 1: coming up, my broadcast partner Dave Laughham joins me to
0:23
Speaker 1: discuss anything and everything Bengals related, including the team's biggest
0:28
Speaker 1: needs going forward and an offensive lineman's explanation for why
0:33
Speaker 1: Christian Westerman isn't playing. We'll hear what Drake Kirkpatrick had
0:38
Speaker 1: to say when asked the following question, what does Brown's
0:41
Speaker 1: quarterback Baker Mayfield do best? His answer made me laugh,
0:46
Speaker 1: perhaps you will too. And this week's Know the Faux segment,
0:49
Speaker 1: we'll get the lowdown on the Browns from one of
0:52
Speaker 1: my favorite broadcasters in the league, Cleveland's excitable Jim Donovan.
0:57
Speaker 1: And last, but not least, we'll talk to one of
1:00
Speaker 1: the best national reporters covering the NFL, Alex Marvez from
1:04
Speaker 1: Sirius XM NFL Radio. We'll discuss the Bengals coaching situation
1:09
Speaker 1: and Alex will share his pick for who the Bengal
1:12
Speaker 1: should hire if they elect to make a coaching change
1:17
Speaker 1: at the end of the year. Emphasis on if all
1:21
Speaker 1: of that is straight ahead. But first, here's a quick
1:24
Speaker 1: reminder that you can have the latest edition of this
1:26
Speaker 1: podcast delivered right to your phone, tablet, or computer by
1:30
Speaker 1: subscribing on iTunes, Stitcher, or pod Bean. It's the greatest
1:35
Speaker 1: invention since the hang on the door basketball hoop. I
1:42
Speaker 1: think I got my unofficial start as a play by
1:44
Speaker 1: play announcer describing the make believe basketball games I played
1:48
Speaker 1: in my childhood bedroom on one of those clip on
1:51
Speaker 1: the top of the door basketball hoops. Many years later,
1:54
Speaker 1: I hear my twelve year old son doing the same thing,
1:57
Speaker 1: and one of the items on his Christmas list this
2:00
Speaker 1: year is a version of one of those hoops with
2:03
Speaker 1: what looks like a glass packboard. I hope Santa brings
2:08
Speaker 1: them one. Let's get to football. After snapping a five
2:12
Speaker 1: game losing streak by beating the Oakland Raiders last week,
2:14
Speaker 1: the Bengals will look for their second straight win against
2:18
Speaker 1: the no longer pitiful Cleveland Browns. Browns fans have suffered
2:22
Speaker 1: through ten straight losing seasons, winning five or fewer games
2:26
Speaker 1: in nine of those ten years. But Cleveland already has
2:30
Speaker 1: six victories this season, including a thirty five to twenty
2:33
Speaker 1: win over the Bengals just four weeks ago. The Browns
2:37
Speaker 1: have a great young nucleus, led by the number one
2:40
Speaker 1: pick in the draft each of the last two years,
2:43
Speaker 1: pass rusher Miles Garrett and quarterback Baker Mayfield. But what
2:47
Speaker 1: about the Bengals nucleus? Is it good enough to compete
2:51
Speaker 1: for a title in the AFC North next year? That's
2:55
Speaker 1: where I begin this week's conversation with my broadcast partner
2:59
Speaker 1: Dave Lapham. The Bengals have officially been eliminated from the playoffs.
3:02
Speaker 1: Their win last week hurt their draft position. They dropped
3:05
Speaker 1: from eleventh to thirteenth. Here's my question, lap how good
3:09
Speaker 1: is the roster for whomever is coaching this team next year?
3:13
Speaker 1: I think it's good. You know, I'm going to go
3:15
Speaker 1: buy what my sources that I trust around the league
3:18
Speaker 1: that I talked to before the season. Everybody's saying, why
3:23
Speaker 1: our coaching staff feels like we might have forty players.
3:25
Speaker 1: They feel like you guys have forty seven. Our coaches
3:28
Speaker 1: might feel like we have forty five. They feel like
3:30
Speaker 1: you guys have fifty, So I mean, I think the players,
3:35
Speaker 1: the roster depth, and the roster talent is good. Is good.
3:41
Speaker 1: What did people think about Chicago before they made the
3:44
Speaker 1: coaching change. What do people think out in LA with
3:46
Speaker 1: the Rams before they made the coaching change. Basically the
3:48
Speaker 1: same players. You're going to change some. There's gonna be
3:50
Speaker 1: another draft, another free agency. But I think the core
3:54
Speaker 1: of this football team when healthy, the biggest problem this
3:57
Speaker 1: year is it's been decimated by injury. When healthy, pretty
4:00
Speaker 1: good core. Lap give me their three biggest needs going forward.
4:06
Speaker 1: Offensive line talent needs to be improved. I think, honestly,
4:11
Speaker 1: Frank Pollock maximized the talent he did. They played as
4:18
Speaker 1: well as they can play, and that's a tribute to
4:20
Speaker 1: him for them still to be averaging, you know, during
4:25
Speaker 1: the top ten in sacks allowed going into this Cleveland
4:28
Speaker 1: game and sacks per pass attempt allowed going into this
4:32
Speaker 1: Cleveland game, pretty darned good. And they're averaging four point
4:37
Speaker 1: six a rush, still twelfth in the NFL. So their efficiency,
4:40
Speaker 1: they're playing well some totally their parts is better than
4:43
Speaker 1: any guy by far, and that's coaching. So they do
4:48
Speaker 1: need to upgrade the talent there. They need to upgrade
4:50
Speaker 1: the talent a linebacker. There's no question about that. In
4:54
Speaker 1: today's NFL linebackers level is being attacked, and it's being attacked,
4:59
Speaker 1: you know, multiple ways. And the Bengals right now are
5:03
Speaker 1: hurting in that category being able to hold up in
5:05
Speaker 1: that end of it. Those those are two big ones.
5:09
Speaker 1: And I guess if I had another drug again, this
5:12
Speaker 1: is all based on who comes back healthy and who doesn't.
5:15
Speaker 1: I wouldn't mind seeing another big bodied defensive tackle in
5:19
Speaker 1: there as well in the rotation, just another guy to
5:21
Speaker 1: add to the mix. You know, Ryan Glasgow is playing well.
5:24
Speaker 1: You know, he went down two poles, starting to show
5:26
Speaker 1: that he could play, he went down, So, like I said,
5:29
Speaker 1: with injuries, may not be as big a need. But
5:31
Speaker 1: you know, I think that their pass rush would look
5:34
Speaker 1: a lot different if Carl Lawson were playing. You know,
5:36
Speaker 1: I think I think a lot of things would look
5:39
Speaker 1: a lot different if all their players were playing. But
5:41
Speaker 1: during the course of the season, those are the three
5:43
Speaker 1: areas in my mind that I would I would really target.
5:47
Speaker 1: Two weeks ago, Christian Westerman played forty two snaps against
5:50
Speaker 1: the Chargers and it was clearly pushing people around in
5:53
Speaker 1: the running game last week, not a single snap against Oakland.
5:58
Speaker 1: Explain why you great phraseology pushing people around the running game.
6:04
Speaker 1: I mean he and Billy Price had some legendary double
6:07
Speaker 1: team blocks. I mean they were knocking the defensive lineman
6:10
Speaker 1: back five yards. You couldn't even fall down. I mean
6:12
Speaker 1: he was pushed back so quickly, couldn't even fall in
6:15
Speaker 1: the ground. That's only one part of the game. And
6:19
Speaker 1: Westerman is as good as there is in my mind,
6:21
Speaker 1: and almost anybody's guard play in terms of guy on
6:25
Speaker 1: him boom, knocking him off the football and driving him
6:28
Speaker 1: down the field. They play him goal line defense because
6:33
Speaker 1: he's a load. You can't move him. He moves people.
6:35
Speaker 1: He moves people against their will. He doesn't let them
6:38
Speaker 1: move him. That's Christian Westerman. The problem is they move.
6:43
Speaker 1: Guys will move around, guys will slant, twist, stunt, and
6:47
Speaker 1: that's not His strength is picking up that movement. I
6:49
Speaker 1: mean he's great with you know, something right in front
6:52
Speaker 1: of him, and he knows he has to go destroy that.
6:54
Speaker 1: See can destroy boom. I'm going to get that. But
6:57
Speaker 1: there's a lot more to it, and that's where he
6:59
Speaker 1: struggles a little bit. Same in pass protection. You know,
7:02
Speaker 1: like a guy that's a quick interior defensive tackle. It's
7:05
Speaker 1: got you know, a quick rip, rip, quick swim, quick whatever.
7:08
Speaker 1: You can't bull rush him. Anybody that tries to bull
7:10
Speaker 1: rush from shame on you. You're not going to move
7:12
Speaker 1: the guy an inch. So to me, the fact that
7:15
Speaker 1: he's their other defensive lineman when he's active to be
7:19
Speaker 1: in the goal line defense tells me exactly what his
7:22
Speaker 1: strengths are. And then of course his weaknesses are that that,
7:26
Speaker 1: you know, the movement stuff. Plus the other part of
7:28
Speaker 1: it is you have to be really up to speed
7:30
Speaker 1: mentally on the simons. If you're blocking a guy five
7:33
Speaker 1: yards down the field, but it's the wrong guy and
7:35
Speaker 1: the guy you're supposed to be blocking is involved making
7:37
Speaker 1: a play because the teammates couldn't adjust quickly enough, you
7:39
Speaker 1: know that hurts you. And really in the next two
7:43
Speaker 1: games Cleveland and Pittsburgh they run million fronts. The biggest
7:48
Speaker 1: thing that you have to have as a guy like
7:50
Speaker 1: Clint bull and who's seen it before, can recognize communicated
7:53
Speaker 1: to other teammates. Corty Glenn a new, you know, new
7:57
Speaker 1: guy to the franchise at left tackle, where at left
8:00
Speaker 1: guard and Billy Price att center on the road against
8:03
Speaker 1: those two defenses, crowd noise could have bowling in there
8:06
Speaker 1: to kind of, you know, be a traffic cop. That's
8:08
Speaker 1: that's that's the big thing right there. You know what
8:10
Speaker 1: it sounded like to me, It sounded like you were
8:12
Speaker 1: describing a baseball player that couldn't hit a curve. Yeah,
8:16
Speaker 1: one trick, pony. You know. It's like, you know, you
8:17
Speaker 1: have to you have to be able to do a
8:19
Speaker 1: lot of things. That's I know, I know that's what
8:21
Speaker 1: put me to the shot putting the discus. I got
8:24
Speaker 1: my first good Uncle Charlie, that old doucer who baby
8:28
Speaker 1: I could turn a fastball. But man, once they started
8:30
Speaker 1: that old kneed beender, it's like, Oh, throw the shot
8:34
Speaker 1: put throw the discus, let's go. Jeff Driscoll got his
8:38
Speaker 1: first to win as a starting quarterback last week, but
8:40
Speaker 1: he also had his worst game at least statistically, completing
8:43
Speaker 1: just forty two percent of his throws with a passer
8:45
Speaker 1: rating at fifty one point three. Was it Oakland's defense
8:49
Speaker 1: or just a lousy day for a young quarterback making
8:51
Speaker 1: his third NFL start? You know, I think it's always
8:54
Speaker 1: a combination of both a little bit. But I think
8:57
Speaker 1: I think it might have been, you know, a bad
8:59
Speaker 1: day and day for Jeff. I think the worst thing
9:02
Speaker 1: that could have happened to him was turning it over
9:04
Speaker 1: on that very first deep ball attempt. Because you don't
9:07
Speaker 1: have a whole lot of history, you don't have a
9:09
Speaker 1: whole lot of snaps, and you know, you're a human being.
9:12
Speaker 1: It's like, oh man, that was a shot. I had
9:14
Speaker 1: an opportunity there. He just didn't see that safety. He
9:16
Speaker 1: tried to lead John Ross to the middle of the
9:18
Speaker 1: field more and didn't see that safety coming over and
9:21
Speaker 1: under threw it as well. So that one, you know,
9:25
Speaker 1: you have to bounce back from. I do think though,
9:27
Speaker 1: and I asked him about this because teammates mentioned this
9:31
Speaker 1: to me after the game that you know, during the
9:34
Speaker 1: week of practice he was struggling with the right shoulder injury.
9:36
Speaker 1: He got blasted in that football game against the Chargers.
9:40
Speaker 1: He get hit, really, he got stung pretty well, and obviously,
9:44
Speaker 1: you know, his answer to me was exactly what I
9:45
Speaker 1: expect from a pro like him. I was able to practice,
9:48
Speaker 1: I was able to play. No, it wasn't a problem.
9:52
Speaker 1: I've been hitting the shoulders and even blocking people. It's
9:55
Speaker 1: like when you normally you just can extend and really
9:58
Speaker 1: jam and free movement, but when you have a little
10:01
Speaker 1: bit of a shoulder problem, feels like they're standing the joint.
10:03
Speaker 1: You know, it's just that little grinding sense. It's not
10:05
Speaker 1: like it's just not right. And it was a throwing shoulder,
10:09
Speaker 1: so you know, not all of a sudden when you're
10:10
Speaker 1: ripping it. It just doesn't feel it just doesn't feel right.
10:14
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying that that was the reason that
10:16
Speaker 1: he was high and incomplete on a lot of his throws.
10:19
Speaker 1: Might have been a little bit of a factor, though,
10:21
Speaker 1: So I'm hoping maybe with another week under his belt
10:24
Speaker 1: of healing and all that he'll throw the ball a
10:26
Speaker 1: little bit better, because I've been impressed with his accuracy overall.
10:30
Speaker 1: You know, hopefully that was just you know, an outlier
10:33
Speaker 1: and maybe you know, there are multiple reasons, maybe just
10:35
Speaker 1: a little bit off physically, you know, he just wasn't accurately.
10:39
Speaker 1: Every quarterback has games like that. Maybe a little bit
10:42
Speaker 1: about what Paul Gunther was doing, but hopefully the accurate
10:45
Speaker 1: accuracy is back. Because Greg Williams this week up in Cleveland,
10:49
Speaker 1: He's going to see things he hasn't seen before. And
10:52
Speaker 1: you know the biggest challenge for him this week is
10:54
Speaker 1: being mentally sharp. Physically sharp will help, obviously, but man,
10:58
Speaker 1: he's got to see it before it happened. Really. Lap
11:01
Speaker 1: four weeks ago, the Browns beat the Bengals thirty five
11:04
Speaker 1: to twenty at Paul Brown Stadium, and it really wasn't
11:06
Speaker 1: that close. It was twenty eight nothing Cleveland in the
11:09
Speaker 1: second quarter before the Browns got conservative on offense and
11:12
Speaker 1: tried to run out the clock instead of run up
11:14
Speaker 1: the score. How do the Bengals give the Browns a
11:17
Speaker 1: game or even pull off the upset this Sunday. Well,
11:22
Speaker 1: two things that Cleveland did in that first game was
11:25
Speaker 1: did not allow a quarterback sack and had no turnovers.
11:28
Speaker 1: When you go post a goose egg and both of
11:31
Speaker 1: those departments, you have a chance to win big, and
11:34
Speaker 1: they did. I also think Dan the defense is much
11:37
Speaker 1: different than when the Cleveland Browns saw in that encounter
11:40
Speaker 1: because they just the New Orleans game was atrocious and
11:46
Speaker 1: they fired their defensive coordinator, but it had been building.
11:49
Speaker 1: They go to Baltimore very unusual. It's a college type offense.
11:55
Speaker 1: They're playing cover two against a quarterback that's running it
11:58
Speaker 1: down their throat with a running back. Didn't make quick
12:01
Speaker 1: enough adjustment while you're playing cover two against that kind
12:03
Speaker 1: of an offense. It was just it wasn't a good fit,
12:06
Speaker 1: and they were highly criticized for it. So the next
12:10
Speaker 1: game was Cleveland, and I think that they were staggered.
12:12
Speaker 1: You know, they were taking a ten count standing ten count.
12:16
Speaker 1: Now they've put together some pretty good a lot better
12:19
Speaker 1: defensive performances. I think they're feeling much better about themselves
12:22
Speaker 1: defensively in terms of players and confidence in what the
12:26
Speaker 1: coach is presenting and simplification of their assignments and rules.
12:30
Speaker 1: So I think they'll see a different Cincinnati Bengal defense
12:34
Speaker 1: than they saw when they came out and went four
12:36
Speaker 1: wide receivers, and the Bengals were like acted like they'd
12:39
Speaker 1: never seen four wides before. It runs four wide receivers,
12:42
Speaker 1: and I mean they did. They went through them like
12:44
Speaker 1: a hot knife through butter. I remember one drive was
12:46
Speaker 1: twelve or thirteen plays ninety six yards. Come on, now,
12:49
Speaker 1: it was ridiculous. Every drive they had one short field
12:53
Speaker 1: like for fifty one yard touchdown, one for ninety six
12:56
Speaker 1: and everything in between. So I think they'll see a
12:59
Speaker 1: different defensive performance. Hopefully the Bengals will build off that
13:03
Speaker 1: pass rush they were generating. But this offensive line is
13:08
Speaker 1: light years better than what the Oakland Raiders presented. The
13:10
Speaker 1: Raiders didn't even have their starters in there. They had
13:13
Speaker 1: two replacement guards. I mean it was pedestrian and Gino.
13:17
Speaker 1: Atkins had a fourth quarter for the ages, three quarterback
13:20
Speaker 1: sacks and nine snaps. That's ridiculous. After winning one game
13:24
Speaker 1: over the last two years combined, the Browns could finish
13:27
Speaker 1: with a winning record this year. If they beat the
13:29
Speaker 1: Bengals this week and then win in Baltimore next week,
13:32
Speaker 1: the Browns a Super Bowl contender as soon as next year.
13:36
Speaker 1: I'll pump the brakes on that. I'll give them playoff
13:39
Speaker 1: contender for sure, because they're contending now. You know, with
13:41
Speaker 1: two weeks left in the season, they aren't eliminated. They've
13:44
Speaker 1: lasted longer than the Bengals have in that process of elimination,
13:47
Speaker 1: so obviously they're on the rise. And they have a quarterback.
13:51
Speaker 1: I thought their roster was pretty good the last couple
13:54
Speaker 1: of years. They just didn't have a quarterback. I mean,
13:56
Speaker 1: it was it was a joke. How it wasn't just music,
14:00
Speaker 1: cool chairs, it was a merry ground that was you know,
14:04
Speaker 1: going at overdrive. It was ridiculous at the quarterback position.
14:08
Speaker 1: Now they got one and amazing how it makes everybody
14:12
Speaker 1: else around that quarterback better and the players list a boat.
14:15
Speaker 1: I mean, Baker Mayfield's lifted everybody else's performances and that's
14:20
Speaker 1: what it's all about. So I think they've tasted the
14:24
Speaker 1: sweet nectar of victory more times obviously this year than
14:26
Speaker 1: they have in the past few recently. But I think
14:29
Speaker 1: they have to experience making the playoffs first. I think
14:32
Speaker 1: it's very tough after what they went through, and if
14:35
Speaker 1: they don't qualify the playoffs this year, which is probably
14:37
Speaker 1: going to happen, I don't happen after send them when
14:39
Speaker 1: the Bengal spank them and make restitution for the game
14:42
Speaker 1: down here in Cincinnati. But you know they've taken another step.
14:46
Speaker 1: I think the next step would be qualified for the
14:49
Speaker 1: playoffs and then very rarely after what they went through
14:53
Speaker 1: to the first time you qualify the playoffs, you make
14:56
Speaker 1: the run to the final. Thanks Lap, Baker Mayfield was
15:00
Speaker 1: extremely impressive in his first start against the Bengals, going
15:03
Speaker 1: seventeen for twenty two for two hundred and forty five
15:06
Speaker 1: yards and three touchdowns. In the first half after building
15:11
Speaker 1: a twenty eight nothing lead, Mayfield only attempted four passes
15:15
Speaker 1: in the second half, and one of them was his
15:18
Speaker 1: fourth touchdown. This week, Bengals cornerback Drake Kirkpatrick was asked
15:23
Speaker 1: what Mayfield does best. Now, he's cool. You know, I'd
15:32
Speaker 1: like to see that out of young guy. Man. He
15:34
Speaker 1: definitely gets in guy's heads. And you know, now that's
15:39
Speaker 1: what this game was about. You know, everybody is so
15:42
Speaker 1: straight with the rules and stuff like that, but this
15:44
Speaker 1: is a competitive game, you know, man, it is to
15:47
Speaker 1: you know, it's a competitive nature to you know, just
15:50
Speaker 1: to be aggressive and things like that. So you know,
15:54
Speaker 1: he does a lot of good things getting out of pocket.
15:56
Speaker 1: You know, he's short, so he's not it's gonna make
15:58
Speaker 1: the best throws in the pockets or we know, we
16:01
Speaker 1: know what we gotta do is all about. It is
16:03
Speaker 1: going out there and doing it. You guys were able
16:05
Speaker 1: to be playoffs spoilers in the last two weeks last year.
16:08
Speaker 1: Is that a motivating thing at all this year? No?
16:12
Speaker 1: I hate that. It gets on my nerves, you know,
16:15
Speaker 1: I hate being spoilers or dispoiler that now I want
16:18
Speaker 1: to make the playoffs and we didn't make it this year,
16:21
Speaker 1: and you know there's something that I gotta go home
16:23
Speaker 1: with another year without going to the playoffs. So that's
16:26
Speaker 1: what it's about me. I don't care about spoiling nobody nothing.
16:29
Speaker 1: I don't care about getting wings and none of it.
16:31
Speaker 1: You don't mean none of me, and they don't help
16:34
Speaker 1: me pay my bills. So went into So that's why
16:37
Speaker 1: I'm doing to win and get to the playoffs. The
16:39
Speaker 1: mansion of wings was a reference to last season, with
16:41
Speaker 1: the Buffalo Bills sent the Bengals one hundred twenty dozen
16:46
Speaker 1: chicken wings. Has it thank you for beating Baltimore in
16:49
Speaker 1: the final game of the season to help Buffalo make
16:51
Speaker 1: the playoffs for the first time in seventeen years. And
16:55
Speaker 1: even if Drey doesn't want them, I'm hoping that the
16:58
Speaker 1: Bengals beat Pittsburgh the final game of the season to
17:01
Speaker 1: help Baltimore make the playoffs and that the Ravens send
17:05
Speaker 1: a truckload of crab cakes to Paul Brown Stadium as
17:08
Speaker 1: a thank you. Now, time for this week's No the
17:10
Speaker 1: Faux segment. As we take a closer look at the
17:13
Speaker 1: upcoming opponent. And this week our expert is the longtime
17:17
Speaker 1: radio voice of the Cleveland Browns, Jim Donovan, who joined
17:21
Speaker 1: lapping Me on the Bengals Game Plan Show. We've had
17:24
Speaker 1: you on the show in the past when the Browns
17:26
Speaker 1: were awful, and I always complimented you for never losing
17:30
Speaker 1: your enthusiasm. I've said many times, if I ever teach
17:33
Speaker 1: a course on broadcasting, you are going to be my
17:35
Speaker 1: guest to talk about how to handle a team that
17:38
Speaker 1: is struggling. But now that the Browns are really playing well,
17:41
Speaker 1: how much fun are you having, Dah, I gotta tell
17:44
Speaker 1: you it's a lot of fun, and it still is.
17:46
Speaker 1: It's new for us. So even when you say setting
17:50
Speaker 1: up the game on Sunday, the six seven and one
17:52
Speaker 1: Cleveland Browns, I kind of flinch a little bit because
17:56
Speaker 1: it's been so long since we've had that kind of
17:59
Speaker 1: win total at this point this season. But it's been
18:01
Speaker 1: a lot of fun. It really has. Everybody's having a
18:04
Speaker 1: lot of fun. You know. People are you know, can't
18:07
Speaker 1: wait till Sunday now to get down to the stadium
18:11
Speaker 1: to see them play, and to see Baker Mayfield play
18:13
Speaker 1: at quarterback. So there are a lot of things going
18:15
Speaker 1: in the right direction right now for them, and it's
18:17
Speaker 1: good to see. Question. You've putten around the Browns organization
18:22
Speaker 1: a long time, been around the game of football for
18:24
Speaker 1: a long time. I've been had a relationship with many
18:27
Speaker 1: many players. Baker Mayfield is a natural born leader. Is
18:31
Speaker 1: there anybody in your past that you've dealt with that
18:35
Speaker 1: is similar in terms of the leadership and what they've
18:38
Speaker 1: done for their football team than Baker Mayfield? Well, I
18:42
Speaker 1: think the you know, Dave Um and you're right, he
18:45
Speaker 1: really is. It's amazing to see how quickly everybody gravitated
18:49
Speaker 1: to him, and it wasn't you know, there was nothing
18:52
Speaker 1: fake about it. I mean it was very natural. And
18:55
Speaker 1: people follow him and and he's so new to the league,
18:58
Speaker 1: and he's so young to the position, at least at
19:01
Speaker 1: the NFL level. It's been amazing to watch, you know.
19:04
Speaker 1: I go back to when Cozar really had, you know,
19:08
Speaker 1: was run on the Browns situation, but it was kind
19:10
Speaker 1: of different because I'm sure you remember, I mean, Bernie
19:13
Speaker 1: had Gary Danielson. They kind of led him into the
19:16
Speaker 1: league at that time. But once Bernie got into when
19:20
Speaker 1: he finally played in his first year late in the year,
19:22
Speaker 1: and they made the run to the playoffs, and they
19:25
Speaker 1: had Matt and Biner. You know, really there's the staple
19:28
Speaker 1: of their offense that year. Bernie spoke out after they
19:31
Speaker 1: lost the playoff games down in Miami and said, hey, listen,
19:33
Speaker 1: the offense here is archaic. We have to learn to
19:36
Speaker 1: throw the ball. And two weeks next, the next two
19:39
Speaker 1: weeks they had Linda and Fodi came in to run
19:41
Speaker 1: the offense as the offensive coordinator, and everything kind of
19:44
Speaker 1: took off. But I would compare it to the way
19:48
Speaker 1: Cozar came in and people so wanted to have a
19:52
Speaker 1: quarterback that, you know, kind of took the Browns by
19:54
Speaker 1: the rains and led them, And I kind of compare
19:57
Speaker 1: what Mayfield's doing. I think Bill Baker's got a lot
20:00
Speaker 1: more kind of natural athletic ability than Bernie did. Sure,
20:04
Speaker 1: but the leadership skills are kind of the same. We
20:08
Speaker 1: are talking to the radio voice of the Cleveland Browns,
20:11
Speaker 1: Jim Donovan. I want to talk about Freddie Kitchens, the
20:14
Speaker 1: offensive coordinator for the Browns after they fired Hugh Jackson
20:17
Speaker 1: and Todd Haley. Every time I watched the Browns, I'm like, Wow,
20:22
Speaker 1: that's creative. Where'd they come up with that? Have the Browns,
20:25
Speaker 1: I mean, he'd never been an offensive coordinator before. Have
20:28
Speaker 1: the Browns stumbled into like the next great offensive mind
20:33
Speaker 1: in the NFL? Well, I don't know, Dan, That's a
20:36
Speaker 1: really good question because when you asked Freddie Kitchens about it,
20:39
Speaker 1: Freddie Kitchens was brought here by Todd Haley to run
20:43
Speaker 1: that offense, and he's he really is a believer in
20:48
Speaker 1: the offense that Todd Haley was bringing to the Browns,
20:51
Speaker 1: And so I was I kind of wonder the same
20:53
Speaker 1: thing that you're saying, is, you know, did he put
20:56
Speaker 1: his own thumb print on this once he took over
20:59
Speaker 1: or was It's just an evolution thing that maybe if
21:02
Speaker 1: Todd Haley had continued on week by week, we would
21:06
Speaker 1: have seen this thing grow. But it's been instantaneous since
21:10
Speaker 1: he came in. Now, he's been very open minded with
21:12
Speaker 1: the players. I mean, he kind of welcomes you know,
21:16
Speaker 1: it's not like he has a formal suggestion box in
21:18
Speaker 1: front of his front of his office, but he does
21:21
Speaker 1: go to them, and I know he goes to Mayfield
21:24
Speaker 1: and that's the relationship that has really clicked and You
21:27
Speaker 1: can see it that they have a lot of fun
21:29
Speaker 1: with each other. And you know, he says, hey, listen,
21:32
Speaker 1: I go to Baker and say, hey, what do you
21:34
Speaker 1: want to do? What do you what do you like here?
21:36
Speaker 1: And it's not just Mayfield, it might be Landry or
21:38
Speaker 1: it's Nick Chubb. What kind of runs do you like?
21:42
Speaker 1: I think there's been kind of an open form and
21:44
Speaker 1: I can imagine that that's a little bit more of
21:47
Speaker 1: Freddie than it would have been Todd Haley, just knowing
21:49
Speaker 1: a little bit about Todd Haley through his short stay here,
21:52
Speaker 1: in his long stay in Pittsburgh and another spots. But yeah,
21:56
Speaker 1: you know, there's a real dilemma right now. We are
21:59
Speaker 1: always worrying about something in Cleveland, Okay, even when the
22:02
Speaker 1: Browns are starting to win. Now we're worried about, Hey,
22:05
Speaker 1: what do we do with Freddie Kitchens? What do you
22:07
Speaker 1: do with this head coaching situation here? You know, the
22:10
Speaker 1: interim situation of both Kitchens and even above him in
22:14
Speaker 1: Greg Williams. And you know, what, what do you do
22:16
Speaker 1: now these guys are winning? Do you go out and
22:18
Speaker 1: bring new people in? And if you bring new people in,
22:20
Speaker 1: do you try and marry Kitchens? And Williams into their staff.
22:25
Speaker 1: So it's you know, that is probably for the next
22:28
Speaker 1: couple of weeks, after these next two games. But boy,
22:31
Speaker 1: Freddie has done a great job. And the offense looks
22:34
Speaker 1: you know, you know, exclusive, and they've never looked that
22:37
Speaker 1: way in a long time. Well, they came out and
22:40
Speaker 1: a four receiver set down here in Cincinnati, and the
22:42
Speaker 1: Bengals acted like they'd never seen one before. And when
22:45
Speaker 1: I twenty eight nothing quickly. I mean, they hadn't shown
22:47
Speaker 1: that look very much. And they came out and caught
22:50
Speaker 1: the Bengals with their pants down on that bad boy
22:52
Speaker 1: John Dorsey, John Dorsey is going to be the guy
22:56
Speaker 1: making some of those decisions you're talking about. And this
22:58
Speaker 1: guy is a blue collar, you know, green bay Ron Wolf.
23:01
Speaker 1: Discipul Rebuild the Sleeping Giant was his motto as mantra.
23:05
Speaker 1: And how about his first draft, Baker Mayfield, Denzel Ward's
23:08
Speaker 1: a little nicked up right now. And Nick Chubb, how
23:10
Speaker 1: do you like me so far? I mean not bad?
23:12
Speaker 1: Huh yeah, I mean as good a draft as I've
23:15
Speaker 1: ever seen them have. Uh. And and that goes even
23:18
Speaker 1: you know, old Browns, New Browns, uh, you know. And
23:22
Speaker 1: and the new Browns since ninety nine, Dave. I mean,
23:24
Speaker 1: they've had amazing and you know, amazingly high draft choices
23:29
Speaker 1: that have just bombed out. And so I mean, he
23:32
Speaker 1: really hit it out of the park here, he really did.
23:35
Speaker 1: I mean, their their draft is coming up big. I
23:37
Speaker 1: think you're gonna see Ward play on Sunday. He's back
23:41
Speaker 1: in there after having a concussion and being out the
23:43
Speaker 1: last couple of weeks. But I think he's gonna play
23:45
Speaker 1: this Sunday. But I mean, you know, he's a terrific player.
23:48
Speaker 1: Uh Nick Chubb has just been I mean sensational, and
23:51
Speaker 1: they made the right move. It looks like, you know,
23:53
Speaker 1: Dorsey was very frustrated that they were, you know, that
23:56
Speaker 1: they were using Carlo's hide so much and that they
23:59
Speaker 1: weren't using Chubb. He was only getting a couple of
24:01
Speaker 1: charries a game, and so he moved Hide and is
24:05
Speaker 1: in the trade and then put you know, that elevated Chubb.
24:08
Speaker 1: And Chubb's been sensational, he really has. I mean, he's
24:11
Speaker 1: a blend of power and yet he's got very very
24:14
Speaker 1: breakaway speed in the middle of runs. I mean he
24:17
Speaker 1: can just run away from people. The only pick that
24:20
Speaker 1: right now is a question mark. Is the and this
24:23
Speaker 1: would really make it a BOFO draft is if this kid,
24:26
Speaker 1: Austin Corvitt, who they took out a Nevada, if he
24:30
Speaker 1: can come in and get a spot on the offensive
24:32
Speaker 1: line because he was the first pick in the second round,
24:35
Speaker 1: he was thirty third overall, and the offensive line just
24:38
Speaker 1: hasn't been able to accept him yet. He is projected
24:41
Speaker 1: down the road when everything kind of plays itself out,
24:44
Speaker 1: maybe as early as next year, that he would be
24:46
Speaker 1: their next center, and that they're trying to get him
24:49
Speaker 1: ready to play center. But that's the only pick right
24:52
Speaker 1: now that It has not really you know, been a
24:55
Speaker 1: big big, you know, been a big hit. But up
24:57
Speaker 1: at the top, it's been great, and Mayfield was John
25:00
Speaker 1: Dorsey was totally committed to Mayfield even when he was
25:03
Speaker 1: unemployed after he had left Kansas City. He said, boy,
25:07
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm really fixated on this kid, and and
25:09
Speaker 1: it's been a it's been just a franchise changer for them.
25:13
Speaker 1: He knew what he was talking about there. Chub made
25:15
Speaker 1: as good a catch on that touchdown catch against the
25:18
Speaker 1: Bengals as I've seen. I mean, you know, control the
25:20
Speaker 1: ball on the helmet and that was a hell of
25:23
Speaker 1: a play by that kid. Yeah, it was David Tyreelay,
25:26
Speaker 1: wasn't it a little? It was super cool. It was
25:29
Speaker 1: I don't think that they knew that he was, you know,
25:32
Speaker 1: as a depth catching the ball out of the backfield
25:34
Speaker 1: as he has been. But he's been very, very good
25:36
Speaker 1: at that. And you know, he's he's totally different than Mayfield.
25:40
Speaker 1: Mayfield is. You know, he's a talker. Chub is not
25:44
Speaker 1: a talker. He lets the talking going room on the field.
25:47
Speaker 1: And they're a good blend. Their roommates on the road,
25:50
Speaker 1: they were roommates at training camp, and it's night and
25:53
Speaker 1: day their personalities. A couple more questions for the voice
25:57
Speaker 1: of the Browns, Jim Donovan. As we mentioned at the top, Clive,
26:00
Speaker 1: it is six seven and one, still mathematically alive for
26:03
Speaker 1: the playoffs, but it would take a miracle to get in.
26:06
Speaker 1: But as you go back and look at the course
26:08
Speaker 1: of the season, Week one had a field goal to
26:11
Speaker 1: beat the Steelers, blocked finishing in time. Week two against
26:14
Speaker 1: the Saints, two miss field goals, two miss pats, or
26:18
Speaker 1: you would have won in New Orleans. A couple of
26:20
Speaker 1: weeks after that against the Raiders. Oakland gets a touchdown
26:23
Speaker 1: in a two point conversion with thirty seconds to go
26:26
Speaker 1: to four so OT and wins the game in overtime.
26:29
Speaker 1: The Browns probably should be nine and six and in
26:32
Speaker 1: first place. I mean, is there is there an element
26:36
Speaker 1: of man, this is good. Six seven one is a
26:39
Speaker 1: big improvement. But we should be making playoff plans. Yeah,
26:44
Speaker 1: you're you know, you're right. I mean, I win as
26:46
Speaker 1: your details. You're right, you know, yes, there's no doubt
26:51
Speaker 1: about it. You look back on it right now, and
26:54
Speaker 1: at least in those first couple of weeks, I mean,
26:58
Speaker 1: you know, and it was it was really kind of
27:00
Speaker 1: the line by Hugh Jackson that he had to say
27:03
Speaker 1: all too many times was, I mean, we just don't
27:05
Speaker 1: know how to finish. And that happened in the Steeler game,
27:08
Speaker 1: and definitely down to New Orleans. I mean, they played
27:11
Speaker 1: when you look at what New Orleans has done this
27:14
Speaker 1: year and especially in the superdown right, I mean, and
27:17
Speaker 1: the way that Brons played, I mean, and believe me
27:19
Speaker 1: it was legit. They had played very well and defensively
27:22
Speaker 1: they were magnificent. They really had Drew Brees guessing that
27:26
Speaker 1: day and to let that one off the hook and
27:28
Speaker 1: then the one in Oakland. I mean that was not
27:31
Speaker 1: only the touchdown, the two point conversion. Yeah, but they
27:34
Speaker 1: had a fourteen point lead, you know at the start
27:36
Speaker 1: of the fourth quarter going into that game on the
27:38
Speaker 1: road with Mayfield really, you know, in his first real
27:41
Speaker 1: start in the NFL. Yeah, you look at that, and
27:44
Speaker 1: I have to be honest. There's another game too, Tampa Bay.
27:47
Speaker 1: They kind of let one get away and overtime there
27:50
Speaker 1: they came up with an interception on the buccaneer side
27:53
Speaker 1: of the field, and overtime that they just needed one
27:55
Speaker 1: first down. They did a field goal try and win
27:58
Speaker 1: that game. So, you know, I think it's all a process,
28:01
Speaker 1: and you know, I think that I think a lot
28:04
Speaker 1: of people around here though right now need to just
28:07
Speaker 1: take a deep breath enjoy the ride. It's been amazing
28:11
Speaker 1: after going you know one and fifteen, oh and sixteen
28:14
Speaker 1: in the last two years. And I think that the
28:17
Speaker 1: next big thing now will be to make this thing
28:19
Speaker 1: continue to roll the right way. There'll be a lot
28:22
Speaker 1: expected of them now next year. They won't be a
28:24
Speaker 1: surprise to anybody, and the improvement is going to have
28:27
Speaker 1: to continue for them because there's still a lot of
28:29
Speaker 1: work to do. The Browns do a really fun thing
28:32
Speaker 1: with Jim Donovan. They have a camera on him in
28:35
Speaker 1: the booth, I think, at all times, and will often
28:38
Speaker 1: tweet out video of him calling big plays so that
28:41
Speaker 1: you can see just how excited he gets. He is
28:44
Speaker 1: a fantastic broadcaster. Last, but not least, we also had
28:49
Speaker 1: the opportunity this week to visit with Sirius XM NFL
28:53
Speaker 1: radio host Alex Marvez. Alex, how are you? I'm doing
28:57
Speaker 1: bet in the Bengals. I think you got you gotta
29:00
Speaker 1: like the Raiders win. I mean, listen, that's encouraging and
29:03
Speaker 1: stop some of the bleeding for right now. But guys,
29:05
Speaker 1: disappointing season unfortunate, especially after such a good start. We
29:09
Speaker 1: go limping into the new year with the same questions
29:11
Speaker 1: as we did at the end of twenty seventeen. What
29:15
Speaker 1: direction is this franchise headed? Who will be the head
29:17
Speaker 1: coach next season? Yeah, that's obviously the big elephant in
29:20
Speaker 1: the room. You know, you're right. I mean, the Bengals
29:22
Speaker 1: are four and one, a minute and fifteen seconds away
29:25
Speaker 1: from going five and one, two and on the division,
29:28
Speaker 1: in control of everything, and have spiraled to this situation.
29:31
Speaker 1: And you know, injuries are always people think, oh that's
29:35
Speaker 1: an excuse. There are a fact, there are reasons, but
29:38
Speaker 1: it's not just all injuries. There's there's a bunch of things.
29:41
Speaker 1: The thing to me is how poorly the defense played
29:47
Speaker 1: for such a prolonged period of time. If anybody told
29:50
Speaker 1: me that the Bengals defense was going to be this
29:52
Speaker 1: horrific before the season started in training camp, I would
29:55
Speaker 1: have said, what are you smoking? Right exactly? I mean,
30:00
Speaker 1: thing that's so mystifying that Tarrell Austin, despite his departure
30:03
Speaker 1: in Detroit, you know you talked that one up to Hey,
30:05
Speaker 1: new administrations coming in. Matt Patricia is a defensive oriented
30:08
Speaker 1: head coach. He's going to be the one who is,
30:10
Speaker 1: you know, handling that part of everything, right, so you
30:13
Speaker 1: understand if he moves on from Tarrell Austin, so okay,
30:15
Speaker 1: we roll on from there. But then, you know, you
30:18
Speaker 1: just get some some things, just the bleeding against New
30:20
Speaker 1: Orleans and you know, just some things that you scratch
30:23
Speaker 1: your head. Again. I get it with the injury part,
30:24
Speaker 1: especially at the linebacker position. Losing Nick Vigil was a
30:27
Speaker 1: big deal. But you know what teams adjusted. There's a
30:30
Speaker 1: Look at the Washington Redskins right now. They just want
30:32
Speaker 1: to end with Josh Johnson as a quarterback. Are you kidding?
30:35
Speaker 1: Nobody cares how you win, just win. And unfortunately, this
30:38
Speaker 1: Bengals team never came up with answers. And while the
30:40
Speaker 1: defense is doing a little bit better now, too little,
30:43
Speaker 1: too late. And look, the Bengals put themselves a little
30:45
Speaker 1: bit in this position as well. You know, why are
30:47
Speaker 1: you sticking with Vant's perfect? I mean, I get it.
30:50
Speaker 1: And I've talked to Marvin Lewis about this, and I'm
30:52
Speaker 1: sure he's answered the question the same way to folks,
30:54
Speaker 1: because you know, Vantes knows this defense. There's an intensity.
30:57
Speaker 1: I mean, the guy's a tail kicker, right, I mean,
30:58
Speaker 1: and he adds a ferocity to this defense. I get it.
31:01
Speaker 1: But if you can't count on the guy, whether it's
31:03
Speaker 1: because of injuries or whether it's because he does himself in,
31:05
Speaker 1: you know, you know, in terms of his behavior on
31:08
Speaker 1: the field, well what are we doing here? You know?
31:10
Speaker 1: And it's just sort of the same old, same ol
31:12
Speaker 1: And it gets a little bit tired after a while, unfortunately,
31:15
Speaker 1: And listen, it breaks my heart to say all this,
31:17
Speaker 1: quite honestly, because as you know, I have such an
31:18
Speaker 1: affinity for this organization, the people on top, all the
31:21
Speaker 1: way down. But man, you know, look, you know, at
31:24
Speaker 1: some point you got to ask yourself enough enough. Yeah,
31:26
Speaker 1: the best ability is availability, and he had not been available.
31:30
Speaker 1: Alex Marvez is our guest. You can follow him on
31:33
Speaker 1: Twitter at Alex Marvez mr v e Z. While you
31:37
Speaker 1: were on the Bengals beat, Alex, you developed a great
31:39
Speaker 1: relationship with Mike Brown. Would you be surprised if he
31:43
Speaker 1: retained Marvin Lewis again or replaced him with Hugh Jackson? Neither,
31:49
Speaker 1: you know. But the question is who's calling the shots
31:51
Speaker 1: in the organization. As Mike going have passed the torch
31:53
Speaker 1: to Katie Blackburn and try Blackburn, are they going to
31:56
Speaker 1: be the ones making decisions moving ahead? And do they
31:58
Speaker 1: share Mike Brown's vision? You know that that's a fair
32:01
Speaker 1: question asked because I really believe that, you know, Mike
32:04
Speaker 1: Hugh Jackson's retention after last season was based upon Mike
32:08
Speaker 1: Brown wanting that familiarity. And you know, when I saw
32:11
Speaker 1: earlier this season that Katie and Troy, you know, were
32:14
Speaker 1: like sort of designated to speak to the media instead
32:17
Speaker 1: of Mike. You know about the direction of the franchise
32:19
Speaker 1: and some other things. It makes me, it makes me wonder,
32:22
Speaker 1: is Mike going to be stepping away from the day
32:24
Speaker 1: to day operations of this team, you know, and Willie
32:27
Speaker 1: just you know, is that baton going to be passed
32:29
Speaker 1: to Katie and Troy? And of course Mike would still
32:31
Speaker 1: be around, but Mike would acquiesced to how they want
32:33
Speaker 1: to run the franchise. And I think so much of
32:35
Speaker 1: it is that, Listen, Mike is in his early eighties
32:37
Speaker 1: right now. Does he really want to learn a new coach?
32:39
Speaker 1: Probably not. That's why you have that Hugh Jackson factor.
32:43
Speaker 1: And if there's any place that Hugh Jackson, the one
32:45
Speaker 1: place I would say that Hugh Jackson could potentially get
32:47
Speaker 1: a job again would be with the Cincinnati Bengals. You know.
32:50
Speaker 1: The one thing too, with the Bengals, it doesn't seem
32:52
Speaker 1: like they really care too much about public response. I mean,
32:54
Speaker 1: that's been Mike Brown's you know, modus operandi ever since,
32:57
Speaker 1: you know, the early nineteen nineties, when he took control
32:59
Speaker 1: of the team following the passing of his father Paul.
33:01
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, you think about it that, you know,
33:03
Speaker 1: and listen, the fact that they're drawing what forty eight
33:06
Speaker 1: thousand fans a game. I mean, that's you know, pretty
33:08
Speaker 1: horrific by NFL standards, just one of the worst attendance figures.
33:11
Speaker 1: It's just it doesn't it doesn't make Mike doesn't influence him.
33:15
Speaker 1: You know, He's going to do what he thinks his
33:16
Speaker 1: best to win games the way that he thinks that
33:18
Speaker 1: these games can be won. So, you know, putting Hugh
33:21
Speaker 1: Jackson in whill you know, everyone around the NFL would
33:23
Speaker 1: roll their eyes. You know, for the Bengals, this may
33:26
Speaker 1: make sense because of his relationship with Mike and maybe
33:28
Speaker 1: they feel that Hugh in this environment where he probably
33:31
Speaker 1: have a little bit of a bigger say in personnel
33:33
Speaker 1: than what he had with the Browns, where he was
33:34
Speaker 1: clearly you know, clashing with Sashi Brown on the group
33:37
Speaker 1: that was running things there. I mean, look, and I
33:39
Speaker 1: don't even want to talk about John Dorsey because by
33:41
Speaker 1: that point, you know, we knew that the clock was
33:43
Speaker 1: taken on Hugh and it was going to take almost
33:45
Speaker 1: a miracle, you know, for this Browns team to keep
33:47
Speaker 1: him in twenty nineteen. But that being said, you know,
33:50
Speaker 1: can Hugh Jackson in an environment where he's saying, Okay, this,
33:52
Speaker 1: these are the things I want personnel wise, Let's get
33:55
Speaker 1: him done. Can he win? Maybe it's something that Mike
33:57
Speaker 1: Brown considers because Marvin Lewis does have significan can input
34:00
Speaker 1: in the personnel decisions based on this team. But is
34:03
Speaker 1: Hugh Jackson really after three thirty six and one in
34:07
Speaker 1: the way that the Browns have responded following his dismissal.
34:10
Speaker 1: Is this the right direction to the Cincinnati Bengals. I'm
34:13
Speaker 1: not so sure about that, my guy, By the way,
34:15
Speaker 1: who I really think the Bengals should hire if they
34:17
Speaker 1: make a coaching move, and I'm not advocating that they do,
34:20
Speaker 1: but if they do, if you don't get Mike Munschak
34:22
Speaker 1: on that first interview, I tell you, I think you're
34:24
Speaker 1: making a big mistake. I think Mike Munchak could work
34:26
Speaker 1: within the framework of this team. You wouldn't have to
34:28
Speaker 1: worry about the offensive line anymore. It would become a
34:30
Speaker 1: strength rather than what's obviously become a weakness for this team.
34:33
Speaker 1: There'd be a certain type of mental toughness that comes
34:35
Speaker 1: with this group, and I think that Mike Munchak would
34:37
Speaker 1: be an unbelievable hire for the Bengals. And I'm just
34:40
Speaker 1: going on record as saying that, not saying it's going
34:42
Speaker 1: to happen, not pushing forward. I'm just saying that I
34:44
Speaker 1: think Mike Munchak would be unbelievable in that job. Alex Marvez,
34:48
Speaker 1: I didn't know that Dave Lapham could still do a
34:50
Speaker 1: cart wheel until you said that. Yeah, this has been
34:55
Speaker 1: discussed with Dahona and multiple things. Weaken the Pittsburgh Steelers
35:00
Speaker 1: because that offensive line has become dominant since he's been there.
35:03
Speaker 1: He's the best line coach in the league. It would
35:06
Speaker 1: weaken them. The only thing, the only fly in the
35:08
Speaker 1: ointment is he's you know, sixty ish and they want
35:10
Speaker 1: the young, offensive minded, you know, they want to find
35:13
Speaker 1: the next McVeigh. They want to find the next guy.
35:16
Speaker 1: Everybody does. I guess that would be the only fly
35:18
Speaker 1: in the ointment. But here here's Mike munch But Mike
35:21
Speaker 1: Munchett thinks young. That's the thing too. If you if
35:23
Speaker 1: you've been you've been around Mike, and I think listen,
35:26
Speaker 1: we've seen Bruce Harians. If that were the case, the
35:28
Speaker 1: Arizona Cardinals would have never had that run of success.
35:30
Speaker 1: I mean, people looking for the next great offensive mind.
35:33
Speaker 1: I mean, are really going to be disappointed this year?
35:35
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, Like, because there just isn't
35:37
Speaker 1: that guy out there right now? There isn't that Sean mcvagh.
35:40
Speaker 1: This turning heads. You know, everyone was pumping up John D. Filippo.
35:42
Speaker 1: He's got his buddies in the media. You know. And
35:44
Speaker 1: by the way, when you listen to a lot of
35:46
Speaker 1: this stuff, please you of a lot of this, you
35:48
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. I mean, it's it's it's media
35:51
Speaker 1: quote insiders that have friends, have relations with the agents,
35:54
Speaker 1: and they start to promote like a John D. Philippo. Well,
35:57
Speaker 1: what was John D. Philippo in Minnesota? It was awful? Okay,
36:01
Speaker 1: it was just terrible. I mean I think that you know,
36:03
Speaker 1: and listen, I'm not saying that there haven't been new
36:06
Speaker 1: ideas in Cincinnati. Bill Laser had a different way of
36:08
Speaker 1: doing things. Clearly, Terrell Austin tried and failed. But when
36:11
Speaker 1: it comes to age, Mike Munchack is still a very
36:13
Speaker 1: young guy. He looks fantastic. I don't think Mike Munchack
36:16
Speaker 1: looks any different from ten twelve years ago. If you
36:18
Speaker 1: put up a mug shot of him to where he
36:20
Speaker 1: is today. He's full of energy, he's full of enthusiasm
36:23
Speaker 1: and listen, he would have been the coach of the
36:24
Speaker 1: Arizona Cardinals last year had he not had a family
36:27
Speaker 1: situation come up that where he just thought, I cannot
36:30
Speaker 1: leave the Pittsburgh area. But I do think he'll be
36:32
Speaker 1: a head coach again. And when he does, I really
36:34
Speaker 1: hope that the Cincinnati Bengals, if they make a move,
36:36
Speaker 1: what's strongly consider hiring him. And you know, fans are
36:39
Speaker 1: going to be like, oh, what did he do in Tennessee? Well,
36:41
Speaker 1: what did Belichick's do in Cleveland? And to me, and
36:43
Speaker 1: here's my take on Mike Brown right now, Like you said,
36:46
Speaker 1: he's in his eighties, Mike Brown had an issue and
36:50
Speaker 1: was called Sam White. Great success, but volatility and it
36:53
Speaker 1: was peaks and valleys in terms of huge mood swings,
36:56
Speaker 1: volatility and all that, and it ended poorly. Did you
36:58
Speaker 1: get fired? Did you quit it? And then the league
37:01
Speaker 1: had to say, you know, the league had to determine
37:03
Speaker 1: what went on there and go through this whole process.
37:06
Speaker 1: Mike Brown does not want to deal with anybody that
37:08
Speaker 1: has volatility. That's why Marvin Lewis is so even keel.
37:12
Speaker 1: He's not too high with the highs, not too low
37:14
Speaker 1: with the lows. He and Mike Brown have become like
37:17
Speaker 1: like family, it is, and they meet every more, and
37:20
Speaker 1: he is totally comfortable with Marvin Lewis. I think that
37:23
Speaker 1: Marvin Lewis almost is gonna have to say to Mike,
37:25
Speaker 1: you know what, Mike, I'm done. I don't want to
37:27
Speaker 1: do it anymore. I honestly believe it because Mike Brown
37:30
Speaker 1: is so so comfortable with the fact that he will
37:33
Speaker 1: never have to worry about Marvin Lewis doing what Sam
37:35
Speaker 1: did to him, or anybody that has that type of volatility.
37:38
Speaker 1: And that's what he's looking for somebody. And after Sam
37:41
Speaker 1: think about it, he brought in Dave Shula, He brought
37:44
Speaker 1: in you know, these Bruce Castle, these guys that he knew,
37:47
Speaker 1: that he had familiarity with. And that's why, you know,
37:50
Speaker 1: you think, boy Marvin might be back. Hugh Jackson. Uh,
37:52
Speaker 1: you know what if Mike Zimmer it ends in Minnesota,
37:56
Speaker 1: which you think, why and how could that happen? But
37:59
Speaker 1: all those people that Mike Brown has familiarity with and
38:02
Speaker 1: has a comfort of dealing with, those people are all candidates.
38:05
Speaker 1: Anybody that is not in that arena if Mike still
38:07
Speaker 1: making the call. And here's the other question, when is
38:11
Speaker 1: it time to name Duke Tobin GM? You know, they
38:14
Speaker 1: do not they do not want to have a general manager.
38:17
Speaker 1: Duke Tobin is basically general manager without title. But do
38:20
Speaker 1: you let Duke Tobin do the coaching search? You know,
38:23
Speaker 1: I mean, do you really shake things up? Do you
38:25
Speaker 1: do that? All these are interesting dynamics as as the
38:29
Speaker 1: next ten days. I'm fuld here. It's gonna be it's
38:31
Speaker 1: gonna be crazy, it's gonna be fascinating. I don't see
38:33
Speaker 1: the Bengals going that radical as far as that goes.
38:35
Speaker 1: And you're right, listen, I think too. There was a
38:37
Speaker 1: thought thinking with Marvin Lewis and Mike Brown that let's
38:40
Speaker 1: give this two years to get this together. And I
38:42
Speaker 1: understand that's been reported that there's an option year right
38:44
Speaker 1: in marvin contract of Mike. It very easily pick up
38:46
Speaker 1: that option. But there's a biout. It's a it's a buyout.
38:49
Speaker 1: There's a buyout from Marvin's he could buy him out
38:51
Speaker 1: of the last year. Yeah, I mean, do you think
38:53
Speaker 1: Mike's gonna be buying out Marvin? I mean, you know,
38:55
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. It's like, you know, I don't. I
38:57
Speaker 1: don't think if you're not the full it's not the
38:58
Speaker 1: full salary. There's you know, there's lesser amount, right right,
39:02
Speaker 1: and Wilson Marvin may have an offset where if he
39:04
Speaker 1: went on to another team and had another position, that
39:06
Speaker 1: that team would start picking up his salary in the
39:08
Speaker 1: Bengals would have to pay less. I you know, listen,
39:10
Speaker 1: if Mike gave Marvin another shot and said, I get it.
39:13
Speaker 1: You know, look, you added some real good things. We
39:15
Speaker 1: have some real good young players here. I think that
39:17
Speaker 1: you're the right guy for us. Let's give it one
39:18
Speaker 1: more try. While Bengals names don't want to hear what
39:21
Speaker 1: I'm saying, I wouldn't be surprised. I think that maybe
39:23
Speaker 1: it was even a two year commitment that Mike gave Marvin, like, look,
39:26
Speaker 1: I'm going to be doing this for two more years.
39:28
Speaker 1: You may be doing this for two more years and
39:30
Speaker 1: then we're done. Let's see what we can get done
39:32
Speaker 1: over the next two years. This is year one of that.
39:34
Speaker 1: If that was indeed the program when Marvin Lewis was
39:37
Speaker 1: given that extension, then year two, same as it ever was,
39:40
Speaker 1: Marvin Lewis is back, and you just hope for better
39:42
Speaker 1: things on the defensive side of the football, You hope
39:44
Speaker 1: for better health, and you just hope that a winning
39:46
Speaker 1: culture can be re established. Well, you are on record
39:49
Speaker 1: with the following. If the Bengals make a change, they
39:52
Speaker 1: should consider Pittsburgh Steeler's offensive line coach Mike Munchet makes sense.
39:58
Speaker 1: By the way, different deal in Tennessee. I just want
40:00
Speaker 1: to point out real quick, you're talking about an owner
40:02
Speaker 1: who was really on his last legs and Bud Adams
40:04
Speaker 1: and you know, I know he's passed. I'm not speaking
40:06
Speaker 1: ill of the dead, but he wasn't even around the franchise.
40:08
Speaker 1: I mean, there was no guidance, no leadership in Tennessee,
40:11
Speaker 1: and Mike was forced to basically almost you know, it
40:14
Speaker 1: was like the team president would fly in once a
40:16
Speaker 1: week from Houston because Bud Adams kept everything very different organization. Now,
40:21
Speaker 1: and look, guys, like you mentioned with Belichick, we can
40:24
Speaker 1: go Tom Coffin. I mean, how many two times failures,
40:26
Speaker 1: Pete Carroll, you know, you know, three times as an
40:29
Speaker 1: NFL head coach finally got a right in Seattle. Guys grow,
40:32
Speaker 1: And I think that Mike Munch Mike Munchak has experienced
40:35
Speaker 1: tremendous personal growth and listen, he knows this division as well.
40:39
Speaker 1: It's not like you need him to reinvent the wheel
40:41
Speaker 1: and learn a bunch of new guys. He knows how
40:43
Speaker 1: where you know how to beat the Steelers. He knows
40:45
Speaker 1: how to beat the Ravens. He knows how to beat
40:46
Speaker 1: the Browns, which by the way, is not going to
40:48
Speaker 1: be easy and years to come. Our thanks to Alex Marvez.
40:51
Speaker 1: And that's going to do it for this episode of
40:53
Speaker 1: the podcast. If you haven't done so already, don't forget
40:56
Speaker 1: to subscribe on iTunes, Stitcher, or pod Bean. And if
41:00
Speaker 1: you have a minute, please give it a rating or
41:02
Speaker 1: leave a comment. Your feedback is always appreciated, and so
41:05
Speaker 1: are five star ratings. They help more Bengals fans find
41:09
Speaker 1: this podcast. I'm Dan Horde, and thanks so much for
41:12
Speaker 1: listening to The Bengals Booth Podcast