Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #522 10 Fights Worth Having With Your Kids

Transcript

#522 10 Fights Worth Having With Your Kids · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: Now, well, it's not an adult to adult conversation, and
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: I would say welcome to parenthood, because we do talk
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: to webblue in the face and the kids really do
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: think that they know better. Well, I mean, I'm astounded
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: at how much our eight year old really thinks that
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: she knows compared to us.
• 0:24
  Speaker 3: She knows everything.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mum
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: and dad.
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: Gooday, this is doctor Justin Coulson, the founder of Happy
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: Families dot com. Do you and that to six kids?
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: Author of seven books, the seventh book coming out real soon.
• 0:39
  Speaker 3: I can't wait to tell you all about it.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: I mean with Kylie, my wife and mum to those
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: six kids as well, and Kylie. Today a conversation that
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: we're going to have a courtesy of Craig Bruce, our
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: executive producer. He said, you guys need to talk about
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: the fights that you have to have with your kids,
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: ten fights that parents have got to have with their kids,
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: because it's worth fighting about this stuff.
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: So that's what we're going to do.
• 1:02
  Speaker 4: I don't really know where to go with this one
• 1:05
  Speaker 4: because I am so over fighting with our kids.
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: I would love what do you mean, what do you
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: mean missus happy families? We don't fight with our children.
• 1:13
  Speaker 4: I would love to think that we could come up
• 1:16
  Speaker 4: with something better than a fight.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: I'm the author of all these books about how to
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: not fight with your kids, but how to have a
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: happy family.
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: What do you mean, I don't know what you're talking about.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: Hang on a sec I just need to go and
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: put my head back in the sand while you do
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: this podcast on your own.
• 1:29
  Speaker 4: Well, I was about to say, anyone who has a
• 1:32
  Speaker 4: child a they don't even need to have six. Yeah,
• 1:36
  Speaker 4: we'd know that this is a conversation that you're going
• 1:39
  Speaker 4: to have over and over again.
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: The reality is, if you're in relationship with someone, anyone,
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: if you're in relationship with somebody, you are going to
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: have disputes. There's going to be conflict, There's going to
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: be disagreement. There are all different ways that we can
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: deal with those disagreements in those conflicts, but there will
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: be preferences that one person holds that are not considered
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: with the preferences that the other person holds. And if
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: that person the other person in the relationship that's not.
• 2:05
  Speaker 4: You happens to be twelve.
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: I was going to say twelve months. But it doesn't
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: really matter. They're going to have a different opinion, they're
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: going to see the world differently, different perspective, different preferences,
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: and so on, and the conflict is bound to an issue.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: And when they're younger, they're also fairly clumsy in the
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: way that they express their preferences and the way they
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: try to.
• 2:29
  Speaker 4: I don't think that that is just for the young.
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: No, of course not.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: I mean your mum, did I just say that? Oh
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: my goodness, I can't believe I just said that. We
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: need to bleep that out. I'm just kidding.
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: Let's move on.
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: So let's talk about these ten fights that you absolutely
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: have to have. We've made lists, folks, We've made a list,
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: but we're only going to spend about one second on
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: each of them because we feel like there's a more
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: important conversation to be had than what the actual content
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: or topics of the fights are. Let's start and we'll
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: go through them in age order. Okay, so from the
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: youngest age, when do the fights start and what are
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: they about?
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: Through to middle childhood, and then through to adulthood.
• 3:07
  Speaker 4: As soon as that baby lands in your arms, there's
• 3:09
  Speaker 4: fights about sleeping and eating.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: And yeah, and it gets words as they get older, right,
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: I mean, the reality is you're probably not going to
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: fight with them when they're little. You just, in a
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: perfect world, you will give them whatever they want. They
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: scream and you bend over backwards to make sure that
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: they're satisfied.
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: I'm screaming that their needs are met.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: That scream is a really effective way of making sure
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: that people pay attention and give me what I want.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: But as they get older, the sleep conversation and the
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: food conversation, I mean, if we're unlucky, it can go
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: for years.
• 3:41
  Speaker 4: Well, as they get older than we start talking about friends,
• 3:44
  Speaker 4: right and parties and sleepovers.
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah oh yeah, yeah.
• 3:48
  Speaker 4: These become really big challenging issues as our kids start
• 3:52
  Speaker 4: to gain a little bit of independence and they just
• 3:56
  Speaker 4: get bigger.
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: You didn't mention, you didn't mention the fights in early
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: childhood about it's time to leave the park, or you've
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: got to wear your seat belt, or.
• 4:05
  Speaker 4: No, I'm not going to buy you something every time
• 4:07
  Speaker 4: I go.
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: To the shop.
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, or I know that everyone's probably anticipating
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: that we're going to say that the screen time fights
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: start when they're teenagers, but hello, have you ever taken
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: a screen off a two year old?
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: I mean that starts at the very beginning.
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: I've lost count. There's a lot of fights that we
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: could potentially have with our kids, and as parents, by
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: the way, let's let's finish the list by the time
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: the kids are in their teen years.
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: We've got things like.
• 4:30
  Speaker 4: Social media, alcohol and drugs, intimacy, sex and pornography, resect, resect,
• 4:36
  Speaker 4: repectct respect, consideration of others. And I've actually put dress
• 4:42
  Speaker 4: on there. I think that there's, you know, some really
• 4:44
  Speaker 4: important conversations we need to have with our kids around
• 4:47
  Speaker 4: self respect and you know.
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: I guess how we display ourselves, yeah, and how the.
• 4:51
  Speaker 4: World sees us as a result. I'm not suggesting for
• 4:54
  Speaker 4: a second that we kind of dress for other people.
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: You're on the kind of ground here where some people
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: could get quite upset.
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: But let's be honest.
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: When we've got a thirteen or a fourteen year old
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: walking around sending specific messages to the people around him
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: or her through the way that they're dressing, it can
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: have an impact on any number of things. So I
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: think that it's definitely worth a conversation, and there are
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: going to be some families who will think not at all,
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: and other families who are right there beside you on
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: that one.
• 5:21
  Speaker 4: So I guess the conversation really is not so much
• 5:23
  Speaker 4: about how do we have these fights with our kids,
• 5:26
  Speaker 4: because any parent would suggest that the last thing they
• 5:29
  Speaker 4: want to do is have another fight.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: But every single one of these things is ah'll to
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: die on from a parent point of view, and definitely
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: from a child point of view. And ultimately this comes
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: down to this conversation about control. As a parent. Some
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: parents would say, let's go to the clothing issue. I
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: will not let you leave the house looking like that,
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: or the alcohol issue. You're not going to that party
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: if there's going to be alcohol there, full stop, end
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: of story. You're twelve, or you're sixteen, or you're whatever.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: And some parents will say, you're not leaving the table
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: until you've eaten all four of those peas four of them,
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: it's only four p's, and you need to have something green,
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: and you need to have And so as parents, we
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: see these things as critically important and things that have
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: to be controlled.
• 6:09
  Speaker 4: Why we see ourselves as being kind of in charge
• 6:13
  Speaker 4: of our kids' safety and they're well being.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so we're trying to protect them. It was more
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: of a rhetorical question, but I'm glad you answered it. Yeah,
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: it's about saying I want you to grow up healthy
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: and strong and.
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: Safe, and that's happy, and yeah, what happy?
• 6:26
  Speaker 4: And yet we spend so much time fighting.
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: But the difficulty is, even though each of these things matters,
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: and matters a great deal and is worth engaging in
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: some level of conflict over, it's how we have the conflict.
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: And I don't know that anything is really worth well,
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: A couple of things are. It's definitely worth highlighting. It
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: is worth having a fight if your child's safety is
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: at risk. There are sometimes where we as a parent
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: simply need to say no, and I will stand myrond
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: on this one. But there are very few, not nearly
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: as many of those things as we often make.
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: Out that there could be very very few.
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: In fact, when I think about the last twenty three
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: twenty four years of child wearing that you and I
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: have been through, I can really only think of a
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: couple of times in my life where I have stood
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: there and said I'm your father, and I forbid it.
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: It will not happen. I'm getting very serious about this.
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: I've got my cranky face on. No, it just doesn't
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: happen because we can usually work it out without having
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: to have a full blown battle with our kids. So
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: after the break, let's talk about how we avoid the
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: conflict but still get to work through these tough things
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: to keep our kids safe and help them to make
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: healthy decisions for their lives. Neurodiverse children are beautiful, but
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: they also bring unique challenges for parents and educators. The
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: world does not always accommodate them easily or well. Communication, affection, behavior, learning,
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: and almost every other aspect of life can be challenging
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: for the child and their families. The webinar A Parent's
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: Guide to Autism by leading autism expert Michelle Garnett can
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: help parents and educators strengthen the bond with their autistic
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: children for better outcomes for children and families. A Parent's
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: Guide to Autism is available at Happy Families dot com
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: dot au.
• 8:25
  Speaker 4: It's the Happy Families podcast, the podcast for a time
• 8:27
  Speaker 4: poor parent who just wants answers now, And I'm sure
• 8:30
  Speaker 4: that everyone is wanting to hear how we have a
• 8:34
  Speaker 4: conversation that doesn't lead to conflict with their kids.
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, So let's just put this out there. Typically,
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: if your child wants to do something, whether they're two
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: or twenty two, or let's say two or eighteen, because
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: once they're past eighteen, you've got limited input really in
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: what's going on. But as we're raising these kids, when
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: they want something that we're not willing to give them,
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: they will usually have a dead set, fared income, full
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: blown dummy spit and completely lose the plot before we
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: get to have a conversation with them. We had this
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: happened in the last few weeks in our home. We were
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: dealing with the screen issue all over again. We said
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: to one of the kids, we really need to sit
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: down and have a conversation. We don't want to have
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: a big battle of we don't have a big war.
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: You're big enough to have this conversation, so let's just
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: chat it through. And instead of chatting it through, she
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: lost the plot. She slammed the door. She did, I'm
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: not talking any of the other boys parents in the world.
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: This is so unfair and just totally blew up. But
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: later on that night we were able to sit down
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: and while she was still not the most excited participant
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: in the conversation. We got to have the conversation and
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: there was no conflict. As we walked through that conversation,
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: she'd calm down, she knew that the conversation needed to
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: be had, and we were able to work things through
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: reasonably well. And well, we haven't had perfect compliance subsequent
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: to the conversation, we've been able to see vast improvements.
• 9:55
  Speaker 4: What was interesting in that specific context was just the
• 10:00
  Speaker 4: realization that, in spite of all of the conversations we've had,
• 10:04
  Speaker 4: she was still quite oblivious to what our concerns were.
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: And that's such an important thing for us to highlight.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: If you're a parent and you think because I've had
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: the conversation it's done, think again. It doesn't go in
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: like honestly, You've got to have the conversation multiple times.
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: There's just no such thing as a one off. It's
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: an ongoing conversation. And I think that's why we as
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: parents get so frustrated because it is so exhausting.
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: It's such a.
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: I don't even know what the word is that I'm
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: looking for. It's just so tiring all the time. So
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: I reckon there's a couple of things that we can
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: do to frame this well. But first is you know
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: my ladder of life metaphor. I use it all the time, yep,
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: And the kids roll their eyes when they hear it.
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: But it's a good metaphor.
• 10:51
  Speaker 4: Only because you're on top.
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: Well, they will have the chance to do that in
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: their own lives at some point. But here's the metaphor.
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: I like to frame these conversations with the kids by saying,
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: life is like climbing a ladder, and I've climbed, and
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: then I say how many rungs of the ladder I've climbed?
• 11:07
  Speaker 4: Two?
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: Come on, I've climbed nearly fifty rungs. I like forty six,
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: forty seven rungs.
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: Up this ladder of life.
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: And the view from forty seven rungs up, I can
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: see a long way into the distance. I can see
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: a lot of stuff that's coming. And it's my job,
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: as the person higher up the ladder, to warn the
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: people lower down the ladder that there's stuff coming. Now
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: here's the difference. When you're low on the ladder, like
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: you're twelve, or you're fifteen, or you're.
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: Three or four, you can't see very far at all.
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: But but you think you can, Yeah, because you can
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: see further now than you've ever been able to see.
• 11:39
  Speaker 4: You above the trees, right, you're above the tree line
• 11:42
  Speaker 4: now and you can actually see and it looks like
• 11:45
  Speaker 4: you can see the.
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: World right right.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: The other thing about being further down the ladder, though,
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: and I explained this to the kids, is you get
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: to see all the detail. I can't see the detail
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: from up here. I'm pretty high up. I can see
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: stuff that's coming, but I'm not in the thick of it.
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: I'm not down in in the mud and the leaves
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: and in the trees and in the ground. I can't
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: see and hear what the kids at score are actually saying.
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: I'm not looking at the chats that you're involved in.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: If we're talking about screens of social media, for example,
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: I don't know exactly what's going on there. I just
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: know because I'm so high up, I can see the
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: trouble that's coming. And therefore, while you know more detail,
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: I have more.
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: Of this big picture of you.
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: And as your parents, my job to warn you about
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: what's coming and work out with you how we can
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: keep you safe, because you're going to be stuck in
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: the actual warfare.
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: That happens lower down the ladder.
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: Now that metaphor is a framing for a conversation, is
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: actually a pretty powerful way to help kids to become
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: open to an alternative perspective, perspective that they're not real
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: flash on hearing otherwise.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: So what happens though, if you use that metaphor and
• 12:50
  Speaker 4: it doesn't work any magic. Your kid looks at you
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: like you have no clue what you're talking about. They're
• 12:55
  Speaker 4: not willing to meet you anywhere close to the middle
• 12:58
  Speaker 4: to be able to have what you would consider an
• 13:01
  Speaker 4: adult to adult conversation.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: Well, it's not an adult to adult conversation. And I
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: would say welcome to parenthood, because we do talk to
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: web blue in the face, and the kids really do
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: think that they know better. Well, I mean, I'm aststoundard
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: at how much our eight year old really thinks that
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: she knows compared to us. She knows everything, absolutely, But
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: it's not about having an adult to adult conversation. This
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: is a parent to child conversation. And I think the
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: second thing that I would encourage with the framing, which
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: kind of answers this question, is to let your child
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: know this is a really big challenge for us. Whether
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: it's going to bed on time, or whether it's eating
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: good food, or whether it's choosing good friends or pick
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: your issue. All the way through to the screens and
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: the alcohol and the heavy stuff of the adolescent years,
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: the relationship will always come first.
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: I love you no matter what you choose.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: I love you no matter whether you follow my requests
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: and my preferences or not. But what's going to make
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: make you happier and healthier, what's going to keep you safer,
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: is for us to work together on this and find
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: a solution that we can both feel good about. And
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: just by making the relationship primary, it actually draws kids
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: to us. It helps them to recognize that we're there.
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: Now.
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: This is not well, I'm going to be really soft
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: on you and let you do whatever you want. It's
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: not that it's letting them know I value the relationship.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: It's absolutely critical. There's a third thing that I want
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: to highlight, and that is that it's not worth going
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: to war over preferences. There are some principles, some values
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: that it actually is worth going to war on. It
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: really is worth having the battle, and that might be
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: things to do with the genuine safety and health and
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: protection of your child. If they've got preferences about music
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: and you don't like the music, or if they've got
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: preferences around what foods they do and don't like. I mean,
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: we've all got preferences, and it's just that we're the
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: grown ups, and so we get to we just get
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: to think that our preferences is a normal and everybody's
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: toe the line with our preferences.
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: But that's not how it is at all. So preferences
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: versus principles, preferences go easy principles.
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: That's the stuff where you say, actually, as a matter
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: of principle, this is just a big fat no.
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: And again you won't have to do it very often.
• 15:17
  Speaker 4: So I guess we've got a couple of take home
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: messages from today's conversation. There are going to be a
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: jillion conversations that are worth having right that, hopefully, if
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: we take the right approach, that they don't actually need
• 15:29
  Speaker 4: to become fights. There might be some contention as you
• 15:34
  Speaker 4: start to work things through, but I guess that number
• 15:37
  Speaker 4: one take home would be that the relationship comes first,
• 15:40
  Speaker 4: no matter what, and letting your child know that you
• 15:43
  Speaker 4: love them no matter what choices they make. But these
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: things are important and we want to try and work
• 15:48
  Speaker 4: with them, not against them.
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: And I want to add to that, I always frame
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: with our kids that this is about being healthy and
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: about being safe, and about being wise. I don't ever
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: frame it in terms of what's right and wrong or
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: what's good and bad, because they really resist our morality.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: And you can argue about what's good and bad based
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: on any number of other factors and judgments.
• 16:12
  Speaker 4: I don't have your life experience, so you saying that
• 16:15
  Speaker 4: social media is bad based on your knowledge and experience
• 16:19
  Speaker 4: doesn't equate to what they're seeing.
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, their experiences.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: No, it's not bad, and everyone's on it and this
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: is my life. Whereas if we talk about safety and
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: being healthy and making wise choices, there's no moral contaminant
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: in there, and it's much harder to argue against that.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: It's just better footing. That doesn't mean that as a
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: parent you don't believe that there's good and bad, right
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: and wrong. It just means that the conversations go smoother
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: when we remove the moral element and focus instead on
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: what's healthy, what's safe, and what's wise.
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: And I think lastly, the latter metaphor that you use
• 16:53
  Speaker 4: is really powerful to show perspective. And you know, if
• 16:57
  Speaker 4: you wanted to take it to the extreme, go on,
• 17:00
  Speaker 4: I'm a ladder together. Yeah, ask them what they see
• 17:02
  Speaker 4: from their rung three runs up and your rung ten
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: runs up? What can they see and what's the difference?
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And you don't even need a ladder.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: You can stand in the upstairs window versus the downstairs
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: window and just look at the different perspective, or put
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: someone on the roof, like massive, massive.
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: Difference is there. I just want to highlight as well though.
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: Expect contention, expect hardship, Expect some sort of a challenge
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: because the kids do get annoyed. They want their perspectives
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: to be heard and they want their own way. So
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: hopefully this has been a helpful conversation about how you
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: can navigate those challenges. The Happy Families podcast is produced
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: by Justin Ruland for Bridge Media, with Craig Bruce as
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: our executive producer. If you'd like more info about making
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: your family happy, please join us at Happy Families dot
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: com dot au.