Latest / Collectors MD Features / #28: When Collecting Becomes Compulsion | That Card Collectors Podcast

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#28: When Collecting Becomes Compulsion | That Card Collectors Podcast · Collectors MD Features

• 0:09
  Welcome to That Card Collector's Podcast with
• 0:12
  your host, Ian Taylor. Welcome, everybody, to
• 0:21
  That Card Collector's Podcast. My name is Ian.
• 0:24
  Joining me this week is Josh. What it is. Is
• 0:29
  Keith. How you doing? And we have a guest this
• 0:33
  week. So joining us this week is Alyx Effron.
• 0:37
  Now, Google describes you, Alyx, as a marketer.
• 0:42
  advocate, and the founder of Collectors MD, a
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  peer support and educational platform launched
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  in 2025. He is recognized as a leading voice
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  addressing the intersection of modern collecting
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  culture, compulsive spending, and problem gambling.
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  Would you say that's a fair summation? I would
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  say that's pretty accurate. And I'm humbled that
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  Google even has like a description in there for
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  me. A good one. A good one, a very positive one.
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  That's great. i love google went on and on and
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  on so i kind of i thought i'd quit while i was
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  ahead and i i snipped it there because i didn't
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  want to read all of it out because google ai
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  often quite frankly it's bobbing some of the
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  stuff it comes up with it makes up shit left
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  right and center so i then flipped over to your
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  linkedin and your own description on linkedin
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  of Collectors MD is a cross -platform initiative
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  working to reshape the conversation around collecting
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  compulsive behavior and responsible engagement
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  within the modern hobby and that's your own words
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  so let's let's break that down a bit Alyx yeah
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  um Collectors MD why did you start it what led
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  you to start it um let's start there yeah uh
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  well first of all i just want to thank you again
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  Ian Josh Keith for having me on this morning
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  i'm really excited to continue spreading awareness
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  and helping educate folks who may not you know
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  quite understand the nuances that can come with
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  modern collecting and um you know we're doing
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  a lot of work and uh like we discussed before
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  we went live have had the opportunity to have
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  these conversations publicly across the board
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  and um i'm just very grateful and humbled by
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  any and all opportunities like this so of course
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  just want to thank you um So I've been collecting
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  my entire life. You know, like a lot of people,
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  it started when I was a kid. There was something
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  special about, you know, opening packs with my
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  dad in the 90s, chasing, you know, Michael Jordan
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  and sharing that excitement with, you know, my
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  brother, with friends, other family members.
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  And as I got older, my relationship with collecting
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  started to change. I also struggled with gambling
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  addiction. And through recovery, I began recognizing
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  some very familiar patterns that were taking
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  place within this modern hobby environment. And
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  for me, it wasn't necessarily about the cards
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  anymore. It was about anticipation, the excitement
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  of the next opportunity, and sometimes spending
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  money that I hadn't intended to spend. And what
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  struck me was that there really wasn't a dedicated
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  support system for people experiencing those
• 3:33
  types of challenges within collecting. And that's
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  ultimately why I started Collectors MD in March
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  of 2025. I really wanted to create something
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  that understood the hobby, respected the people
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  in it, and provided a place where someone could
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  talk about these experiences without feeling
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  judged or misunderstood. Collectors MD wasn't
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  created because collecting is inherently harmful,
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  right? It was created because something enjoyable
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  can potentially become unhealthy for certain
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  individuals, and those people deserve support.
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  And so I think one of the biggest misconceptions
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  is that we're trying to tell people how much
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  they should spend or whether they should collect
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  at all, and that's really not what we're about.
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  Collectors MD is built around awareness, education,
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  prevention, peer support, and recovery. We really
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  want to help people recognize their own behaviors
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  and make decisions that align with their financial,
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  emotional, mental, relational, really personal
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  well -being. So we host weekly peer support meetings.
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  This past week, we hosted our 74th peer support
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  meeting. we have educational resources i mentioned
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  earlier we have five podcasts now and we collaborate
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  with the collectibles industry as well as the
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  behavioral health and problem gambling industry
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  and so we recognize that there's not a one -size
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  -fits -all approach some people can build a healthy
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  relationship with collecting through things like
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  boundaries and intentional participation, as
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  we call it. And for others, stepping away entirely
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  might be the healthiest choice. Our job isn't
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  to make that decision for someone. It's to help
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  them understand their options and make an informed
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  choice. I'm stuck on the five podcast thing because
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  I have enough trouble getting one out per week.
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  So hats off to you, sir. Wow. So we're going
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  to get into all of that, but while I'm on the
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  podcast point, so what are those podcasts and
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  what kind of audiences do they serve or topics
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  do they cover? Yeah, so for me, a big part of
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  the work we're doing is around spreading awareness.
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  And unlike other traditional recovery organizations,
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  I felt compelled. to put my story out there,
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  to start creating content around the work we're
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  doing. I spent 13 years in media and advertising
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  sales before launching Collectors MD. And so
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  I kind of saw an opportunity to meet people where
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  they are, right? And, you know, be approachable.
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  And so that was the spirit behind launching our
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  first podcast, which is The Collector's Compass.
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  That is a long form podcast. We've done about
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  70 episodes. We bring on industry leaders from
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  the collectible space, from the behavioral health
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  and problem gambling communities. We bring on
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  community members to tell their stories. And
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  it's really blossomed into this cross -platform
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  conversational podcast. that touches on all of
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  these nuances that you know we're going to get
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  into we also have four additional short form
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  podcasts so again for us it's all about meeting
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  people where they are and for some that might
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  mean intentional collecting they're still engaging
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  with the hobby they're still buying cards but
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  they're doing so in a more intentional and responsible
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  way and for others it could mean complete abstinence
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  so things like you know, trading cards, card
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  breaks, randomized outcomes that could potentially
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  be triggering. Right. And so we want to create
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  content platforms and spaces for any and everybody
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  within our community, regardless of where they
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  are in either their collecting or recovery journey.
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  And so those four podcasts are comprised of two
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  that are focused on intentional collecting. One
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  is called Behind The Breaks. And the other is
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  called The Collector's Corner, which we actually
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  just recently launched. Those are hosted by Collector
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  Charles. He is a hobby media personality who
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  has been a part of our community for well over
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  a year now. He does a really great job of talking
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  about, you know, his collecting journey, whether
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  that mean or whether that be intentional collecting,
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  grading. you know, participating in live breaks
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  and other formats of collecting. And then we
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  have a podcast called Collectors MD Features,
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  which is basically a culmination of all of the
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  conversations that I've been having across the
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  hobby, across the behavioral health and problem
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  gambling spaces. Really want to make sure that
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  our audience has access to those conversations.
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  So rather than like... searching on youtube or
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  you know spotify or apple wherever they consume
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  their content Collectors MD or Alyx Effron or
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  responsible collecting they can come to this
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  one place that aggregates all of those conversations
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  so with permission you know from the uh host
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  of course uh you know uh something like this
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  conversation would air as part of collectors
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  md features And then the last podcast that we
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  are launching in the next week or two is called
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  Beyond The Chase. And that's going to be primarily
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  focused on recovery and abstinence. And so again,
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  you know, those of our community members that
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  are engaging. or I should say not engaging with
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  the collecting or purchasing any longer. We want
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  to make sure that they have a space they can
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  listen and consume content that won't potentially
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  trigger them. And so that's going to be hosted
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  by a licensed clinician named Lauren Johnson.
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  She's an LCSW. She has a lot of experience within
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  problem gambling, but has also experienced firsthand
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  a lot of the you know potential fallout that
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  could come with uh overspending overindulgence
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  and so uh we're really excited to launch that
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  podcast in a couple weeks and um yeah those five
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  really round out what's become uh the collector's
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  md network wow okay um talk to me i you've you've
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  mentioned it a few times and i think i understand
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  what it means but Explain to me what the concept
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  of intentional collecting means. What is that
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  exactly? Yeah, so intentional collecting is really
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  our version of what's called harm reduction within
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  recovery. And so for me, intentional collecting
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  is really about making sure that you're in control
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  of your collecting habits rather than allowing
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  those habits to control you. you know collecting
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  is supposed to be something that brings brings
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  us joy right it's rooted in nostalgia community
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  connection the excitement of finding something
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  meaningful to us as collectors as hobbyists and
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  there's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting
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  to participate in that but i think where things
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  can become challenging is when we start losing
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  sight of why we're collecting in the first place
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  maybe we're you know buying things we don't actually
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  want maybe we're spending more than we intended
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  or maybe we're chasing the next big hit because
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  we're trying to recreate a feeling rather than
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  enjoying the hobby itself so intentional collecting
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  is about introducing things like awareness structure
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  accountability into that experience that might
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  mean you know setting a budget you know collecting
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  specific players or sets, understanding the risks
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  that are associated with things like randomized
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  products. It can mean taking breaks or just simply
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  asking yourself a few questions before making
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  a purchase. And those questions could be, why
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  am I buying this? Can I comfortably afford it?
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  Am I doing this because I genuinely want it or
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  because I feel compelled to? And something I
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  always emphasize is that intentional collecting
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  isn't defined by how much money somebody spends
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  it's really defined by the relationship with
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  that spending so somebody who spends you know
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  five thousand dollars let's say might be participating
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  responsibly and within their means while somebody
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  who only spends a hundred dollars two hundred
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  dollars could be experiencing significant financial
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  or emotional harm now one real important distinction
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  is that intentional collecting isn't necessarily
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  appropriate for everyone right if someone is
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  constantly unable to maintain boundaries uh experiencing
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  uh significant harm or finding that collecting
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  is triggering compulsive or gambling related
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  behaviors abstinence may be the healthier path
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  and that's why Collectors MD uh really recognizes
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  different pathways including intentional collecting
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  including harm reduction including abstinence
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  it's not about telling people what they can or
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  can't do it's just about helping them recognize
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  their own behaviors and making informed decisions
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  about you know what's healthiest for them and
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  you know those closest to them so ultimately
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  the goal is just to collect because you want
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  to not because you feel like you have to gotcha
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  wow um I found myself getting emotional when
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  you were talking then because so much of what
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  you just said rang true. And I don't want this
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  to become, you know, the Ian's sob story episode.
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  But, you know, I've got personal touch points
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  with a lot of the stuff that you've just talked
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  about and how I now think about buying stuff.
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  You know, I don't think I've phrased it in quite
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  this way, but I've started to think about it
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  as COVID saved my life because I had to have...
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  serious conversations including a very uh bonkers
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  evening i had where i prepared a speech to sit
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  down and tell my wife how much debt i was in
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  as a result of buying stuff um over a period
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  of of years um so which i've kind of touched
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  on before on on the podcast but um it's it's
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  i'm in a place now i find where i have to I have
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  to just be very in a lane with, because I collect
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  a lot of different aspects of cards, but I have
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  to make smaller kind of, I have to narrow the
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  lens with each thing I'm focused on to avoid
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  the spread, if you like, because it can become
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  just like, okay, all of a sudden I'm doing that
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  and then I'm buying this and then I need this
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  to complete that. I have to be quite focused
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  with it. I wouldn't say every day is a win on
• 14:46
  that front, but I'm much more aware of things.
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  It's like, Keith, you were busting my chops the
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  other week about I recently decided to bail on
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  a character that I've been collecting for the
• 15:00
  best part of two decades and had a massive personal
• 15:02
  collection of this character, a Marvel character,
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  Black Cat. And I decided to draw a line under
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  it. part with most of my PC, of which I'm halfway
• 15:13
  through selling. But in the same breath, I'm
• 15:17
  talking about collecting a character from a new
• 15:20
  DC Platinum set, Starman. And Keith's like, oh,
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  you've gone from one character to collecting
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  another. But I immediately put in a guardrail
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  there and said, okay, I'm just going for that
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  particular parallel and that particular insert.
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  And so rather than buy a rainbow of a character
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  that could be 30 to 35 cards. and could kind
• 15:41
  of be a bit like, oh my God, I've got to collect
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  so many aspects to fulfill this journey. I've
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  got three cards and I'm done. And that's kind
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  of the way I've kind of controlled that. Keith,
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  you were nodding furiously just now. Throughout
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  everything. I mean, throughout everything. All
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  of this speaks to me. I think that at some point
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  I've been on every part of the spectrum in my
• 16:04
  collecting. I think that I had a point where...
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  i took out a credit card for a set and maxed
• 16:13
  that credit card out that i'm still spending
• 16:15
  today um so you know if i wish that i had been
• 16:20
  a little bit more responsible at times and and
• 16:22
  everything you're saying you know rings in my
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  head at some point because i think i think a
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  lot of collectors have been there in some way
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  or another and i'm just looking at pieces of
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  cardboard that i don't care about literally looking
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  at them right now that i don't care about that
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  i spent money on and i wish i had a little bit
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  more insight and a little more control and awareness
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  So I love everything that you're doing. I do
• 16:41
  have a question also. So in the substance abuse
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  community, there's AA and there's meetings and
• 16:47
  things like that. Do you consider the fact that
• 16:49
  you have five podcasts, something like that,
• 16:52
  like a daily check -in for some people? Is that
• 16:55
  what you're gunning for when you do that? Yeah,
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  absolutely, Keith. I think creating those touch
• 17:01
  points for people. That they could stay where
• 17:04
  they can stay connected in between peer support
• 17:06
  meetings is crucial as part of recovery, right?
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  Because all it takes is one slip up to effectively
• 17:13
  erase months or years of progress in your recovery,
• 17:20
  right? So yes, a huge part of it is creating
• 17:23
  content, creating spaces that people can come
• 17:27
  to when they find themselves in those moments
• 17:30
  of vulnerability. I hear all the time from our
• 17:34
  community members that we only meet on Wednesdays.
• 17:38
  We have another meeting on Thursdays in partnership
• 17:40
  with the Problem Gambling Coalition of Colorado
• 17:41
  called Unboxed Powered by Collectors MD. That's
• 17:45
  a little bit more clinical. But for those people
• 17:47
  who are having a hard time on other days or even
• 17:52
  on the same day leading up to the meeting, I
• 17:55
  want to make sure that there are touch points
• 17:58
  for those people. And like I said, we hear from
• 18:02
  folks who say you know i was really struggling
• 18:04
  on on a Friday or on a Monday or on the weekend
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  and you know i listened to one of the episodes
• 18:10
  and that really helped walk me off the ledge
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  so yeah i mean a huge part of it is is making
• 18:16
  sure that we create those spaces for people who
• 18:19
  are struggling but also again like i said before
• 18:22
  it's it's really um intended to just continue
• 18:25
  spreading awareness around this evolving topic
• 18:28
  that's creating more and more harm across the
• 18:31
  board. Yeah. Awareness is the biggest thing of
• 18:35
  any substance abuse or, you know, compulsive
• 18:38
  behavior or anything like that. The awareness
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  is, is, is what changes mentality for most people.
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  And if you don't have that awareness, yeah. If
• 18:46
  you don't have that awareness of any, of any
• 18:48
  point, then you're just newly booming. Like I'm
• 18:50
  crying about a credit card and there's people
• 18:52
  that I'm sure that you've spoken to that, you
• 18:53
  know, have lost their houses that have done,
• 18:55
  you know. Oh yeah. irreparable damage to their
• 18:58
  entire lives we've had people that have lost
• 19:01
  everything and when i say everything i'm talking
• 19:03
  about their homes their families their cars their
• 19:07
  careers right all because of cardboard and um
• 19:10
  it has really become and it's not just limited
• 19:13
  to trading cards it's across the board we're
• 19:16
  looking at what's become uh what we call the
• 19:19
  dopamine economy crisis and it's a real epidemic
• 19:23
  especially amongst children were being conditioned
• 19:25
  at a very early age to engage in these activities
• 19:28
  and these behaviors and really uh chase after
• 19:32
  the monetary gain right the quick flip the roi
• 19:35
  how can i profit the trade up challenge and then
• 19:38
  they get older and again they're conditioned
• 19:42
  to operate this way and so their brains immediately
• 19:46
  you know need that that dopamine rush. And so
• 19:50
  where do they go? They go to a traditional gambling
• 19:53
  environment. They go to the stock market, prediction
• 19:55
  markets. The options now, especially for young
• 19:57
  adults, are absolutely endless. And again, it's
• 20:01
  all about, I'm not saying that people can't engage
• 20:03
  with those environments, but there's got to be
• 20:07
  a sense of boundary, right? There's got to be
• 20:09
  some guardrails in place for those people. And
• 20:13
  that's really, really important. So another huge
• 20:16
  part is educating the parents, right? Because
• 20:18
  like it's not just the collector. It's like the
• 20:21
  parents need to understand what their kids are
• 20:24
  participating in. And the hobby today looks nothing
• 20:27
  like the hobby that we all participated in as
• 20:30
  children. And so education. for parents is a
• 20:36
  top priority for us. We also have spouses that
• 20:39
  reach out to us on a regular basis, right? My
• 20:41
  husband, you know, has gone overboard and he
• 20:43
  can't stop joining breaks. He can't stop spending
• 20:46
  money on cards and he's hiding, you know, purchases,
• 20:49
  packages, bank statements, and he's distanced
• 20:52
  himself and, you know, he's no longer present.
• 20:55
  And, you know, those people deserve a space as
• 20:58
  well. to find a sense of solace, to find a sense
• 21:04
  of comfort from other folks who are also going
• 21:08
  through a similar type of situation. You often
• 21:13
  find with the amount of content that you've done
• 21:15
  that you have people that you're talking to,
• 21:17
  like this very moment, who are nodding furiously,
• 21:20
  who are relating to you that they've experienced
• 21:24
  these things, and are possibly bringing up feelings.
• 21:31
  I'm experiencing that right now. I mean, you
• 21:33
  must see that so much now. How do you manage
• 21:37
  that yourself? Because obviously, you know, you've
• 21:39
  said yourself, you touched on it at the beginning,
• 21:41
  that you've been in a hole previously, you know,
• 21:45
  you've had personal experience. So how does it
• 21:49
  feel when you're on the receipt of that from
• 21:53
  people that you're now talking to to promote
• 21:55
  Collectors MD? Yeah, well, a few things there.
• 21:58
  I think first and foremost, I wanted to create
• 22:01
  a space that I wish existed when I was really
• 22:04
  in the throes of my addiction, right? I would
• 22:06
  go to GA and I talk about card breaks and buying
• 22:09
  singles just in excess and opening up personal
• 22:15
  boxes and things of that nature. And it just
• 22:18
  didn't click with anybody in those rooms, right?
• 22:20
  Because as hobbyists, as collectors, we have
• 22:23
  our own unique language. vocabulary when it comes
• 22:26
  to uh collecting so you know trying to explain
• 22:30
  what a card break is to somebody can be like
• 22:33
  you know trying to teach somebody a new language
• 22:35
  in a lot of ways and so it's just so important
• 22:38
  for there to be a shared space for people who
• 22:41
  can connect with others who get it and uh there
• 22:45
  isn't like a learning curve you could just jump
• 22:47
  in and know understand the nuances and what somebody's
• 22:51
  feeling also like leading up to the launch of
• 22:54
  Collectors MD what i noticed is that there were
• 22:57
  a lot of people talking about this behind the
• 22:59
  scenes whether that be you know through like
• 23:01
  a reddit or facebook or wherever but there wasn't
• 23:05
  like a dedicated space or uh you know list of
• 23:10
  resources for those individuals that made sense
• 23:12
  now i feel um very uh fulfilled in that we've
• 23:20
  we've been successful at creating a space for
• 23:22
  those people to come to and host these meetings
• 23:24
  and you know they're uh non -judgmental and you
• 23:29
  know we've destigmatized this whole concept of
• 23:32
  being addicted to things like baseball cards
• 23:35
  or pokemon like childhood activities that you
• 23:38
  know a lot of people would find guilt shame embarrassment
• 23:41
  over right um And at the same time, I feel this
• 23:45
  unrelenting sense of urgency to just keep moving
• 23:50
  and keep spreading this word, because there are
• 23:54
  millions of people out there who are struggling,
• 23:56
  who have no idea that we exist. Right. And a
• 23:59
  huge part of that has to do with how the collectible
• 24:04
  space kind of perceives a lot of what we're talking
• 24:06
  about. And one thing that we've been really.
• 24:10
  persistent at is making sure that we're connecting
• 24:13
  with the collectibles industry and the key stakeholders,
• 24:18
  whether that be individual influencers or creators
• 24:22
  or media companies or manufacturers or platforms
• 24:27
  to get behind the work we're doing and use their
• 24:31
  platforms as a vehicle. to reach people where
• 24:35
  they are, where the harm is actually happening.
• 24:38
  And that's something we've been very successful
• 24:40
  at. We've developed a program called Rip Responsibly,
• 24:44
  and a lot of major breakers, hobby shops, platforms,
• 24:51
  manufacturers, apps, tools, resources within
• 24:54
  the collectible space have gotten behind that
• 24:56
  movement and have... integrated Rip Responsibly
• 25:00
  messaging directly into their ecosystems to remind
• 25:03
  folks that, hey, you know, this is supposed to
• 25:06
  be fun. But at the end of the day, make sure
• 25:08
  you stay within your means. There's still a lot
• 25:11
  of work to be done. And I don't think we'll ever
• 25:15
  get to a point where we are reaching everybody.
• 25:19
  Right. Because a lot of those people may not
• 25:21
  even. you know realize that they have a problem
• 25:25
  right because again we're talking about something
• 25:27
  that's very convoluted uh it's very much a gray
• 25:30
  area and you know um when somebody's overspending
• 25:34
  on something like pokemon cards or sports cards
• 25:38
  or labubu you know it's it's hard for them to
• 25:41
  wrap their head around how this could potentially
• 25:43
  be as problematic as a traditional vice like
• 25:46
  gambling or like substance that requires real
• 25:49
  professional support and treatment so yeah education
• 25:53
  and awareness uh like you said are number one
• 25:56
  um but you know there is this sense of like you
• 26:01
  know uh almost frustration that it's taken this
• 26:06
  long to even get the word out But we are doing
• 26:09
  everything we can and we really have cemented
• 26:11
  ourselves as the authority as it pertains to
• 26:14
  responsible engagement in the hobby. And because
• 26:17
  of that and because of these partnerships and
• 26:20
  opportunities that we've been presented with,
• 26:22
  this this is just the beginning. Like we are
• 26:25
  just getting started. And at the end of the day,
• 26:28
  we just want to make sure that we can provide
• 26:30
  as many tools and resources and professional
• 26:32
  support to the individuals that are truly being
• 26:34
  impacted. Ian, I'm sorry, I'm bursting. So I
• 26:39
  have a question. You've been in contact with
• 26:42
  Whatnot, I'm assuming eBay Live in some aspect,
• 26:45
  and I'll call it Topps Live. I forget what it's
• 26:49
  called at this moment. If I go on DraftKings,
• 26:51
  I am hit with three to four different ads or
• 26:56
  warnings or something to make sure that I'm being
• 26:59
  responsible. Why have these platforms not adopted
• 27:02
  that in any way, shape, or form? Why is it so...
• 27:05
  And from your conversations, do they intend to
• 27:08
  adopt these practices as well? Because I'm dealing
• 27:11
  with a, like, firsthand. My brother, one day,
• 27:16
  I'm sitting here, boom, box shows up, it's a
• 27:18
  pair of shoes. I'm like, oh, where'd you get
• 27:19
  those? He goes, Whatnot. And I've already been
• 27:21
  through the Whatnot thing. So I'm like, oh, shit.
• 27:26
  Here we go. And, you know, as the days went on,
• 27:29
  it's 15 boxes on the stoop. You know, it's 22
• 27:32
  boxes on the stoop. It's a mailman coming with
• 27:35
  a bin. It's cologne now. It's this, it's that.
• 27:38
  He's found other things on there. And then, you
• 27:41
  know, also I've had other friends who have said,
• 27:43
  oh, have you seen Whatnot? And as soon as they
• 27:45
  say that to me, and I'm not trying to just like
• 27:46
  throw Whatnot under the bus, I'm like, hold on,
• 27:50
  full hard stop. Let me educate you real quick
• 27:52
  with what's about to happen and what your stoop's
• 27:54
  about to look like because it's going to be bubble
• 27:56
  mailers and boxes real quick if you don't wrangle
• 27:59
  this in. This really speaks to me right now,
• 28:03
  if you can't tell from the tone of your voice.
• 28:05
  So I'm just wondering why haven't they adopted
• 28:08
  similar practices to a DraftKings, a FanDuel,
• 28:10
  et cetera, and will they? Yeah, this is going
• 28:13
  to take me a few minutes to explain, but I think
• 28:17
  it's important, and you're asking all the right
• 28:19
  questions. One of the biggest things I've come
• 28:22
  to recognize through my own recovery and the
• 28:24
  work that we're doing at Collectors MD is something
• 28:26
  that we've started calling a double blind spot.
• 28:29
  right and it's really at the heart of why we
• 28:32
  developed what's called the cmd framework essentially
• 28:35
  we have two communities that often don't fully
• 28:37
  understand what's happening in the other right
• 28:39
  on one side you have the collectibles industry
• 28:42
  and the people participating in it you have collectors
• 28:45
  breakers card shops manufacturers platforms and
• 28:48
  even families and for many individuals collecting
• 28:50
  is rooted in a lot of the things that i mentioned
• 28:53
  earlier nostalgia enjoyment community family
• 28:56
  connection they're not necessarily thinking about
• 28:59
  addiction or behavioral health when they're buying
• 29:02
  cards or participating in breaks but what they
• 29:04
  may not recognize is how certain elements of
• 29:07
  the modern hobby right a lot of the the nuances
• 29:09
  that uh that we're going to get into randomized
• 29:12
  outcomes variable rewards scarcity countdown
• 29:15
  timers auctions the constant availability of
• 29:19
  just access right All of those things can influence
• 29:23
  somebody's behavior, particularly if they're
• 29:25
  vulnerable to compulsive spending or gambling
• 29:27
  related harm. Someone might recognize that they're
• 29:30
  spending too much money, but not necessarily
• 29:32
  understand why they feel compelled to keep participating.
• 29:36
  And that's the first blind spot. And it happens
• 29:38
  on. both the uh the buyer and seller side if
• 29:43
  you will right people within the hobby may not
• 29:46
  recognize the behavioral risks associated with
• 29:49
  certain activities or really understand when
• 29:51
  those behaviors are becoming harmful then on
• 29:54
  the other side you have the behavioral health
• 29:55
  community right we have incredibly knowledgeable
• 29:59
  therapists counselors addiction specialists and
• 30:02
  problem gambling professionals who understand
• 30:04
  compulsive behaviors financial harm addiction
• 30:07
  recovery but many of them aren't familiar with
• 30:10
  the modern collectibles ecosystem. They might
• 30:13
  understand sports betting or casino gambling
• 30:16
  or online slots, but if someone walks into their
• 30:19
  office and says, I spent $3 ,000 on sports card
• 30:23
  breaks last night, they may not fully understand
• 30:25
  what that means. They might not know what a break
• 30:29
  is or how randomized pack openings work or what
• 30:32
  a chase card is or why someone who... you know
• 30:35
  would spend hundreds or thousands of dollars
• 30:38
  in one sitting trying to acquire a particular
• 30:40
  collectible and without understanding those mechanics
• 30:43
  it can be difficult to recognize the underlying
• 30:45
  behavioral patterns ask the right questions provide
• 30:48
  support that's relevant to that person's experience
• 30:51
  and that's the second blind spot right behavioral
• 30:54
  health professionals may understand addiction
• 30:56
  but lack familiarity with the modern collecting
• 30:58
  activities through which harmful behaviors can
• 31:01
  manifest and what makes this particularly important
• 31:05
  is that the person experiencing harm can end
• 31:08
  up caught right in the middle of those two blind
• 31:10
  spots. They might turn to the collecting community
• 31:13
  and be told, you know, it's just a hobby or at
• 31:16
  least you're getting something in return. Then
• 31:19
  they might turn to a therapist or a counselor
• 31:21
  who genuinely wants to help but doesn't fully
• 31:23
  understand the environment they're participating
• 31:25
  in. And suddenly they feel like neither community
• 31:27
  completely understands what they're experiencing
• 31:29
  and they just continue, you know, the behavior.
• 31:32
  And I think my own story is a perfect example
• 31:34
  of that, right? Again, like I went to GA meetings.
• 31:37
  I had gone through treatment for gambling addiction.
• 31:40
  I understood many of the warning signs and psychological
• 31:43
  mechanisms. When I redirected that compulsive
• 31:47
  energy into collecting, it took me time to recognize
• 31:50
  that I was still struggling with some of those
• 31:52
  same underlying behaviors. And if someone with
• 31:55
  my background and experience could struggle to
• 31:57
  recognize that connection, imagine how difficult
• 32:00
  it might be. for a child or for someone who has
• 32:03
  never had any exposure to addiction education
• 32:05
  or behavioral health risks and that's the gap
• 32:08
  we're trying to bridge through Collectors MD
• 32:10
  so we're working to help the collectibles community
• 32:13
  like just better understand the psychological
• 32:16
  and behavioral dynamics that can contribute to
• 32:18
  harm while simultaneously helping behavioral
• 32:21
  health professionals better understand the modern
• 32:23
  hobby and its unique mechanics and i want to
• 32:25
  be very clear like we're not suggesting that
• 32:27
  collecting is inherently gambling or that breaking
• 32:30
  is gambling or that everyone participating in
• 32:32
  breaks auctions or or pack openings is you know
• 32:36
  engaging in harmful behavior we're simply just
• 32:39
  recognizing that certain mechanics can create
• 32:42
  risks for certain individuals and those risks
• 32:45
  deserve to be understood regardless of how a
• 32:47
  product or an activity is legally classified
• 32:50
  because someone you know you know doesn't need
• 32:53
  to be participating in something legally defined
• 32:55
  as gambling for their spending behavior to be
• 32:58
  causing real financial or emotional or psychological
• 33:01
  harm so ultimately our goal is to create a common
• 33:05
  language between those two worlds we want collectors
• 33:08
  to recognize potential warning signs earlier
• 33:11
  you know families to better understand what their
• 33:13
  loved ones are experiencing and behavioral health
• 33:16
  professionals to have the knowledge and resources
• 33:18
  to provide informed meaningful support and that's
• 33:21
  what the cmd framework is designed to accomplish
• 33:23
  it's not about labeling the hobby it's about
• 33:26
  understanding the behaviors recognizing the risks
• 33:28
  and making sure people don't fall through the
• 33:30
  cracks simply because neither community has the
• 33:33
  complete picture so that i wanted to like share
• 33:37
  all that to kind of answer your question, right?
• 33:41
  I wanted to create that foundation. I think identifying
• 33:44
  the double blind spot is really important. But
• 33:48
  what's even more important is what we're doing
• 33:51
  to actually address it. And that's where Collectors MD
• 33:54
  comes in because we're not raising awareness
• 33:56
  about a problem. We're actively building the
• 34:00
  education, the resources, the partnerships, the
• 34:02
  support systems to help close that gap. So we
• 34:05
  approach it from both sides. On the collectible
• 34:07
  side, we're working to normalize conversations
• 34:09
  about behavioral health and responsible participation.
• 34:14
  We're collaborating, you know, again, with, you
• 34:17
  know, the major operators within the hobby, whether
• 34:20
  that be the platforms, the manufacturers, the
• 34:22
  breakers, the card shops, the content creators
• 34:25
  to introduce conversations that haven't traditionally
• 34:28
  been part of the hobby. And through Rip Responsibly.
• 34:31
  along with a few other resources like our intentional
• 34:35
  collector's guide, our podcasts, our educational
• 34:37
  content. We're helping people better understand
• 34:40
  the psychological factors that can influence
• 34:42
  their collecting behavior. And we're doing that
• 34:45
  without demonizing the hobby or the people participating
• 34:48
  in it. really, really important. We're not telling
• 34:50
  someone they shouldn't open packs or participate
• 34:52
  in breaks. I know I keep saying that, but it's
• 34:54
  so important. We're encouraging them to understand
• 34:58
  what they're participating in, recognize their
• 35:00
  own boundaries, and be mindful of how those activities
• 35:04
  are affecting their lives. We're also having
• 35:07
  these conversations within the industry, within
• 35:09
  the collectibles industry, about how they can
• 35:11
  better recognize potentially harmful patterns
• 35:13
  and introduce meaningful safeguards. right because
• 35:17
  responsible participation isn't just about putting
• 35:21
  a message on a website or like uh you know a
• 35:24
  reminder that you see on DraftKings oh you spent
• 35:27
  x amount of time in this app right it's about
• 35:29
  creating environments where people have the information
• 35:32
  they have the tools they have the support to
• 35:35
  help make healthier decisions. And then again,
• 35:38
  on the behavioral side, we're helping professionals
• 35:40
  understand what the modern hobby actually looks
• 35:42
  like. You know, this is something I'm particularly
• 35:45
  passionate about because I experienced that disconnect
• 35:48
  firsthand, right? Like we are working with problem
• 35:52
  gambling councils, clinicians, recovery organizations,
• 35:55
  prevention professionals to really educate them
• 35:58
  about the mechanics of modern collecting. I've
• 36:01
  been fortunate to be invited to present. um at
• 36:04
  conferences panel discussions speaking engagements
• 36:08
  to educate these professionals on a lot of these
• 36:12
  nuances right and we're talking about live breaks
• 36:14
  randomized outcomes chase cards mystery products
• 36:17
  blind boxes auction scarcity variable rewards
• 36:21
  and how all of those experiences can intersect
• 36:24
  with compulsive spending and gambling related
• 36:26
  behaviors so through the cmd framework we've
• 36:29
  developed a common language, right? That language
• 36:32
  and vocabulary that I mentioned earlier is so
• 36:36
  important here, right? Because it allows behavioral
• 36:39
  health professionals to better recognize these
• 36:41
  risks, ask more informed questions, and provide
• 36:43
  support that reflects what people are actually
• 36:46
  experiencing, right? So the goal is that when
• 36:50
  someone walks into a therapist's office and says,
• 36:52
  you know, they're struggling with sports card
• 36:54
  breaks, the professional sitting across from
• 36:56
  them understands what they're talking about.
• 36:59
  right awareness and education are incredibly
• 37:01
  valuable but someone who's actively struggling
• 37:04
  needs somewhere to turn and that's why you know
• 37:07
  we have these peer support meetings where people
• 37:10
  can talk openly about compulsive collecting overspending
• 37:13
  gambling adjacent behaviors without fear of judgment
• 37:16
  right like imagine going to your spouse and saying
• 37:20
  i can't pay the mortgage this month because i
• 37:22
  blew it on pokemon cards that's a lot different
• 37:24
  from saying I can't pay the mortgage because
• 37:26
  I have a gambling problem or because I'm a drug
• 37:29
  addict. Right. There's a layer of embarrassment
• 37:32
  and shame that comes with the fact that you're
• 37:34
  addicted to something that is rooted in childhood
• 37:38
  nostalgia. And it's essentially a kid's toy.
• 37:42
  Right. So what's funny about that, too, is and
• 37:46
  sorry to cut you off, is if I told someone I'm
• 37:49
  addicted to gambling, it's like like it's popular,
• 37:52
  like people understand that. If I told someone
• 37:55
  I'm addicted to cards, people are like, what
• 37:57
  a fucking loser. Exactly. There's a stigma. And
• 38:01
  gambling hasn't been destigmatized to the point
• 38:04
  where it's mainstream or widely acceptable to
• 38:08
  have a gambling problem. We've certainly made
• 38:11
  a lot of progress in terms of education and awareness
• 38:14
  on that front. But like you just said, Keith,
• 38:16
  there's a whole other layer of shame and embarrassment.
• 38:20
  And that prevents people from admitting. uh a
• 38:24
  true problem not just to those around them but
• 38:28
  more importantly themselves looking in the mirror
• 38:30
  and saying i i have a real i have a real issue
• 38:33
  here like there's something that needs to be
• 38:34
  done whether it's intervention whether it's you
• 38:37
  know uh professional guidance whether it's like
• 38:40
  technology uh boundaries like tools like gamban
• 38:45
  or bet blocker you know like something there
• 38:48
  has to be like uh some sort of exterior um, tool
• 38:53
  or resource that's introduced to really create,
• 38:57
  uh, uh, some friction, right. In order to prevent
• 39:00
  that person from continuing to, uh, spiral and
• 39:04
  propel in a, an unhealthy direction. Yeah, absolutely.
• 39:09
  And sometimes it can be difficult, um, when,
• 39:13
  if debt's not connected to the issue, sometimes
• 39:16
  if, you know, somebody's gambling in a way with
• 39:19
  my experience, I, I was having trouble with um
• 39:24
  hard rock in a sense of uh the addictions wasn't
• 39:29
  um i wasn't losing often i was winning and that
• 39:36
  comes with a connection of like victory you think
• 39:39
  all right you know you're putting effort and
• 39:41
  energy um and that can still be negative just
• 39:46
  because accounts aren't uh credit cards aren't
• 39:48
  you know um going under in your account is is
• 39:53
  in the black doesn't mean there's not an issue
• 39:55
  it doesn't mean you're not filling a void you
• 39:58
  know unhealthy um and with cards is the same
• 40:02
  way if you're you know in your hobby if you're
• 40:05
  buying low and selling high and things are working
• 40:08
  out well it's tough to find somebody to tell
• 40:10
  you you have a problem right well yeah that's
• 40:12
  a mental thing too winning is is okay in the
• 40:16
  world as long as you're winning your whatever
• 40:18
  you're doing is fine but if you're losing now
• 40:21
  you're a loser and now you feel yeah right but
• 40:23
  it's it's Keith it's more than just a financial
• 40:25
  impact right like you could be winning but it
• 40:28
  could still be taking away time that you could
• 40:31
  be spending with your your loved ones which creates
• 40:34
  all sorts of emotional mental relational fallout
• 40:38
  right so we always caveat that like just because
• 40:41
  somebody's down a ton of money um or up a ton
• 40:45
  of money doesn't necessarily define the particular
• 40:49
  situation. Like I said before, somebody could
• 40:52
  lose $100 and still feel the same emotional,
• 40:56
  mental, and relational impact or fallout that
• 41:00
  somebody experiences when they blow their entire
• 41:03
  life savings. Every situation is relative, which
• 41:06
  is a huge part of the reason why we don't even
• 41:08
  talk about numbers. We don't even talk about
• 41:11
  dollar amounts in these spaces. It's actually...
• 41:15
  discouraged in like a GA setting to talk about
• 41:18
  how much money you lost, right? Because it's
• 41:21
  different for everybody. We have people from
• 41:24
  all walks of life come into these rooms and we
• 41:26
  just want to make sure that we're providing a
• 41:28
  safe and comfortable space for any and everybody.
• 41:32
  Another really interesting aspect of this conversation
• 41:35
  is looking at the difference between how the
• 41:37
  gambling industry operates from a regulatory
• 41:40
  and corporate compliance standpoint compared
• 41:42
  to the modern collectibles industry. If you look
• 41:45
  at regulated gambling operators, right, DraftKings,
• 41:48
  FanDuel, MGM, Caesars, there's obviously dozens,
• 41:53
  hundreds of them. But if you really look at like
• 41:56
  the sports books and the casinos, there's an
• 41:59
  established framework of responsible gambling
• 42:01
  requirements they have to operate within. And
• 42:04
  depending on the jurisdiction or the state, that
• 42:06
  can include age verification, identity verification,
• 42:10
  self -exclusion programs, deposit or wagering
• 42:12
  limits, responsible gambling message, right?
• 42:15
  You see a commercial for a casino or for a sports
• 42:19
  book. Generally, you see like... Gamble responsibly,
• 42:22
  game responsibly. If you have a problem, reach
• 42:24
  out to 800 Gambler, right? You have employee
• 42:27
  training, you have procedures for addressing
• 42:29
  potentially harmful behavior. And those safeguards
• 42:31
  didn't emerge overnight. Many developed through
• 42:34
  legislation and regulatory oversight and research
• 42:37
  and a growing recognition of the harms that gambling
• 42:40
  can cause. Now compare that to the modern collectibles
• 42:43
  ecosystem. We have live breaks, randomized products,
• 42:46
  mystery boxes, repacks, auctions. limited time
• 42:50
  opportunities, you know, and platforms where
• 42:53
  somebody can spend thousands of dollars in a
• 42:55
  relatively short period of time. And while collecting
• 42:58
  is subject to consumer protection laws and other
• 43:00
  applicable regulations, there isn't an equivalent,
• 43:04
  you know, standardized responsible collecting
• 43:07
  compliance framework across the industry. And
• 43:10
  that's what I was alluding to. That's what I
• 43:11
  was asking. It's so important. right do you do
• 43:15
  you see that happening are you in talks with
• 43:17
  legislators or senators or things like that is
• 43:19
  is that coming to the hobby in some way and like
• 43:23
  like so like draft kings does that because they
• 43:25
  were legally bound to i was asking if Whatnot's
• 43:28
  going to put a disclaimer up one day was was
• 43:30
  my original question because they should or because
• 43:33
  they're going to be legally bound to one day
• 43:35
  right like where do you see that going well this
• 43:39
  is this might be a good opportunity i see So
• 43:43
  we recently, I know you're involved with the
• 43:46
  CTCA and Nick Jarman and the work that he's doing.
• 43:48
  And this is where I see that crossover because
• 43:52
  the trade association that he's building, along
• 43:56
  with lots and lots of individuals and companies
• 43:59
  now getting on board, is really picking up a
• 44:03
  head of steam. And this is a potential avenue,
• 44:05
  I see, to possibly have that awareness and communication.
• 44:09
  Is that how you perhaps see... Because I know
• 44:12
  you're heavily involved with Nick and the CTCA.
• 44:16
  You referred to the Healthy Hobby Initiative?
• 44:19
  Yeah, Nick and I developed a Healthy Hobby Initiative
• 44:21
  earlier this year, which is basically a collaboration
• 44:23
  between the CTCA and Collectors MD to promote
• 44:27
  healthy engagement in the hobby. I think one
• 44:30
  really important distinction that I want to make
• 44:32
  is that Collectors MD is not a regulatory organization.
• 44:36
  We're not trying to become one. We're not here
• 44:39
  to determine whether sports card breaks or mystery
• 44:41
  products or collecting activities should be legally
• 44:44
  classified as gambling. We're not lobbying for
• 44:46
  specific legislation or trying to dictate how
• 44:49
  the collectibles industry should operate. That's
• 44:51
  just outside of our jurisdiction. It's not our
• 44:54
  expertise. And frankly, it's not a part of our
• 44:56
  mission. Our focus is on the people who are being
• 44:59
  impacted by these behaviors, regardless of how
• 45:02
  those activities. themselves are legally defined
• 45:05
  right whether someone is spending thousands of
• 45:07
  dollars on sports betting live breaks mystery
• 45:10
  boxes traditional collectibles if that behavior
• 45:13
  is negatively affecting their financial stability
• 45:15
  their mental health their relationships their
• 45:18
  overall well -being that person deserves access
• 45:20
  to education and resources and support so we
• 45:24
  don't need to settle the legal definition of
• 45:26
  an activity to recognize that someone participating
• 45:28
  in it you know, may be experiencing harm. And
• 45:30
  that's where I think the distinction between
• 45:32
  Collectors MD and organizations like the CTCA
• 45:35
  become really important, right? The CTCA is working
• 45:39
  on the industry side. They're helping establish
• 45:41
  standards and promote transparency and encourage
• 45:44
  accountability and strengthen trust across the
• 45:47
  trading card ecosystem. And Collectors MD, on
• 45:49
  the other hand, approaches those issues through
• 45:52
  a behavioral health and consumer well -being
• 45:54
  lens right again we're focused on awareness prevention
• 45:56
  harm reduction peer support recovery and really
• 46:00
  helping people recognize when the relationship
• 46:02
  with collecting may become unhealthy uh and i
• 46:05
  think that's that's exciting uh because you know
• 46:10
  um these efforts can complement each other Nick
• 46:14
  Jarman, who leads the CTCA, he serves on our
• 46:18
  advisory board and I serve on his. And through
• 46:20
  the Healthy Hobby Initiative, we've recognized
• 46:23
  that industry standards and consumer well -being
• 46:26
  are interconnected, even though our organizations
• 46:29
  play different roles and have different responsibilities.
• 46:32
  So the CTCA can focus on advancing industry standards
• 46:36
  and responsible business practices and creating
• 46:39
  a certified breaking program. while collectors
• 46:41
  md focuses on the human side the collectors the
• 46:44
  families the individuals who might be experiencing
• 46:46
  harm that's why we often refer to ourselves as
• 46:49
  the hospital of the hobby right hospitals are
• 46:52
  just focused on helping the patient helping the
• 46:55
  person who has experienced you know some sort
• 46:59
  of physical harm they're not on the front lines
• 47:01
  trying to change you know the way uh you know
• 47:06
  drinking and driving is promoted or the, you
• 47:09
  know, you know, people are educated on that type,
• 47:13
  those types of topics, like they're just, they're
• 47:16
  trying to help people who are in a moment of
• 47:19
  crisis, right? And so when we engage with platforms
• 47:22
  and operators, we're bringing that behavioral
• 47:25
  health perspective into the conversation. We're
• 47:27
  helping them better understand. potentially harmful
• 47:29
  behaviors and consider appropriate safeguards
• 47:33
  and connect people with support when they need
• 47:35
  it. We're not acting as regulators or certifying
• 47:37
  that a business is compliant with any particular
• 47:40
  law, right? We can certainly advocate for those
• 47:43
  things and support the work that the CTCA is
• 47:47
  doing to make a real change. But again, it's
• 47:51
  not our jurisdiction where we're focused on the
• 47:53
  people, the collectors. Gotcha. Understood. A
• 48:01
  few years ago, I just want to touch on this,
• 48:03
  and I'm going to preface this by saying I'm about
• 48:07
  to talk about Upper Deck's e-Pack platform, but
• 48:09
  I'm not doing that in a way that I'm intending
• 48:11
  to throw UpperDeck under the bus. They've obviously
• 48:13
  developed a platform, a direct -to -consumer
• 48:15
  platform where collectors, I'm sure, Alyx, you're
• 48:18
  familiar with Upper Deck e-Pack, and people can
• 48:21
  literally open packs anywhere, and it's physical
• 48:23
  cards. It's not like Topps Collect, which is
• 48:26
  a digital -only platform. And so a lot of the
• 48:31
  background of this podcast was originally Marvel
• 48:34
  Cards, and Upper Deck had the license for 10
• 48:36
  years and change, and obviously Upper Deck e-Pack
• 48:39
  launching in 2016 was a massive part of their
• 48:42
  tenure. I'm still part of a number of groups,
• 48:46
  including there's a big one on e-Pack that's on
• 48:51
  Facebook, rather, sorry, about e-Pack. And so we
• 48:57
  did an episode back in late 2021, episode 116.
• 49:02
  If anyone wants to check it out, I'll put a link
• 49:04
  to it, actually. It was an audio -only one. What's
• 49:07
  that? Sorry, Keith? Your memory. To be able to
• 49:09
  just call it out as an episode number and know
• 49:11
  it. No, I looked it up beforehand because this
• 49:13
  is the thing. I've done so many episodes where
• 49:15
  I say episode because I can't remember. So I
• 49:19
  actually made time to look this up. And it was
• 49:21
  called Hobby Care. overspending and the red glow
• 49:24
  casino. Cause I don't know, Alyx, have you, are
• 49:27
  you aware of upper decade back? Have you, have
• 49:29
  you used it, tried it? I've never used it, but
• 49:32
  I am familiar with it. So the idea, you know,
• 49:35
  you're opening a pack and suddenly if you, if
• 49:38
  you hit, you hear a dude, dude, dude, noise and
• 49:42
  you, it glows, you know, hence the red glow.
• 49:45
  Audio triggers as well. It makes you feel great.
• 49:48
  Yeah. I can't, yeah. Dopamine hit. straight away
• 49:50
  um so i and actually for me often i've had to
• 49:54
  turn the sound off on the upper day key pack
• 49:56
  platform which is a control that they have uh
• 49:58
  because usually that noise scares the shit out
• 50:00
  of me but um the red glow casino by the way and
• 50:05
  i said it at the time and i'll say it now i i
• 50:07
  can't take credit for that because someone in
• 50:09
  one of the groups came up with that but we we
• 50:11
  were talking about The blurb for that episode,
• 50:14
  we get serious for Hot Minute this week and focus
• 50:16
  on collector experiences with overspending. There's
• 50:19
  talk of how far is too far when it comes to pack
• 50:22
  prices for two thirds of the contents being digital.
• 50:24
  Plus we talk FOMO, getting into debt and more.
• 50:27
  Huge thanks to all the collectors who shared
• 50:29
  experiences and views with us for this episode.
• 50:32
  And we hope this episode can help if you have
• 50:34
  any financial issues related to buying cards.
• 50:36
  So we did that because we, and when I say we,
• 50:42
  so you may not be you won't be aware of this
• 50:44
  because we've not really spoken but um i founded
• 50:48
  two facebook groups on marvel cards back in 2018
• 50:51
  which is where this podcast was born this podcast
• 50:54
  started in 2019 as a as a part of that group
• 50:57
  and community and kind of has expanded beyond
• 51:00
  that now um and the one thing that we were finding
• 51:03
  as well as people with physical marvel cards
• 51:05
  is a lot of people were buying and spending on
• 51:07
  e-Pack and a lot of people were overspending on
• 51:09
  e-Pack because it's really, really easy. You can
• 51:12
  connect a credit card to it. And so, again, this
• 51:15
  is not me taking a dump on e-Pack. It could be
• 51:17
  eBay, and I've had experiences with eBay. It
• 51:20
  could be buying through Facebook raffles, which
• 51:23
  are def by 1 ,000 cuts because invariably you
• 51:25
  don't hit on them, and yet you're chucking in
• 51:28
  money just to be in them. So, yeah, there's a
• 51:30
  number of ways you can get in the doo -doo with
• 51:34
  this. But it was a... fascinating episode because
• 51:37
  it wasn't just e-Pack it was people who had issues
• 51:40
  with you know at that point and this is pre -covid
• 51:43
  so this breaker ecosystem we have now didn't
• 51:45
  exist so I think it's important to recognize
• 51:49
  that while that might be the current kind of
• 51:51
  the biggest kind of headline thing that people
• 51:54
  can point to and say ha ha j 'accuse you're the
• 51:57
  root of all the issues that collectors are having
• 52:00
  when they go to Collectors MD and and listen
• 52:03
  to Alyx's content it's not necessarily the case
• 52:06
  you know these these issues this spending has
• 52:09
  been there for before that you know before the
• 52:12
  Whatnots before the eBay lives before the you
• 52:15
  know everyone can have their own QVC kind of
• 52:17
  experience so um but it was it was fascinating
• 52:21
  the number of people who had it and and i'm the
• 52:24
  reason i kind of lead in with that is there was
• 52:26
  a very recent example of this and i occasionally
• 52:30
  see this on Facebook groups um and there's a
• 52:35
  guy who posted on the Upper Deck e-Pack trading
• 52:37
  buy and sell group back on the 5th of august
• 52:40
  and i did ask him if if i could share this so
• 52:43
  if you'll indulge me i'm just going to read his
• 52:45
  his kind of um story here this guy called Joshua
• 52:48
  um i wanted to take a few minutes and share what
• 52:53
  it can cost to do an achievement for an e-Pack
• 52:55
  set not only to give new members an estimate
• 52:58
  of how expensive e -packing can be, but also
• 53:00
  to be vulnerable for a moment to share a perspective
• 53:02
  on collecting that might resonate with others.
• 53:06
  I had not intended to do the 2526 credentials
• 53:09
  auto -achievement, but the set released last
• 53:11
  week as I was experiencing a very difficult family
• 53:14
  issue, and instead of coping in a healthier and
• 53:17
  less costly way, I decided to open a couple of
• 53:20
  boxes, which turned into opening a case. which
• 53:23
  turned into me distracting myself by chasing
• 53:25
  the achievement. This isn't a worries me post,
• 53:28
  just giving context for why I ended up chasing
• 53:30
  this achievement. Altogether, I spent a bit over
• 53:35
  US $3 ,400 on products, as well as singles purchased
• 53:39
  in this group. Some of that will be recouped
• 53:41
  when I sell the extra cards on ComSea, but it's
• 53:44
  still a very inefficient way to acquire free
• 53:46
  autograph cards that, while nice, are likely
• 53:49
  worth maybe one third of that amount. I will
• 53:53
  also have to sell some very nice cards out of
• 53:55
  my personal collection if I want to replenish
• 53:57
  my hobby account, which I keep separate from
• 53:59
  my family's finances and funds solely through
• 54:02
  selling cards. I would encourage folks to consider
• 54:05
  doing the same if they do not already, because
• 54:07
  if I was putting these purchases on a credit
• 54:10
  card, I could easily have spent a lot more than
• 54:12
  I did and adversely impacted my family's finances.
• 54:16
  I never want my kids to have to go without fun
• 54:19
  things because my collecting becomes selfish
• 54:21
  and takes away from their childhood. This is
• 54:24
  my hobby and is secondary to my role as a parent.
• 54:28
  That bit got me when I read this because, again,
• 54:32
  personal experience. Life can be tough. Sorry,
• 54:37
  hang on, my phone's just cut off the bottom of
• 54:38
  it. Life can be tough and challenging, and the
• 54:40
  joy we feel opening boxes and collecting cards
• 54:42
  can be a great way to relive the nostalgia of
• 54:45
  when collecting as kids and beat the stress of
• 54:47
  a busy day. But I also want to caution folks
• 54:50
  from using that high of buying cards in an unsustainable
• 54:53
  way that can cause issues in your personal lives.
• 54:57
  Anyway, whilst I'm not a therapist or financial
• 54:59
  advisor, if anyone ever wants to talk because
• 55:01
  they're worried about their collecting habits,
• 55:03
  I'm happy to listen. Thanks for reading. Now,
• 55:06
  I saw that and I saved that because I'd started
• 55:09
  seeing your content, Alyx, on social media. And
• 55:12
  I was like, I really want to get Alyx on this
• 55:15
  podcast because I want to connect with him because,
• 55:17
  you know, again, I've had personal experience
• 55:19
  with this. And then I read that guy's post. And
• 55:22
  I was like, and I love the fact that he shared
• 55:26
  that. And, you know, I haven't looked at that
• 55:27
  post in a while, but the engagement on it was
• 55:31
  huge at the time. that I took this screenshot.
• 55:34
  So who knows what it is then? I'm sure you've
• 55:38
  probably heard similar, Upper Deck e-Pack aside.
• 55:42
  And what I struck from that is that he clearly
• 55:46
  has an awareness and he also has some guardrails
• 55:49
  in there, you know, with separate accounts and
• 55:52
  things like that, which I've had to start to
• 55:55
  put in place now. Things like disconnecting my
• 55:58
  credit card from e-Pack, disconnecting my credit
• 56:01
  card from PayPal. so that I can't impulse things.
• 56:04
  And one of the things I've started to do now
• 56:07
  as a micro control for me on the impulse side
• 56:10
  of things is I will put things in my basket,
• 56:13
  but then I will walk away. And I'll come back
• 56:16
  to it 5, 10, 15 minutes later. To stop that,
• 56:20
  I see a post on Facebook, someone's pulled something
• 56:22
  big, quick, I must grab two packs, you know,
• 56:26
  because that happens. So I'm not sure if there's
• 56:30
  a question here. I just kind of wanted to relay
• 56:32
  that. That experience, I think we've all seen
• 56:36
  and we will know people in the hobby and family
• 56:39
  keepers, as you mentioned, who who have had that
• 56:44
  scenario where there's something bad going on
• 56:49
  and they just need an escape and the escape route
• 56:52
  turns into another problem all on its own. Well,
• 56:55
  yeah, I think I think we in the hobby, if you
• 56:58
  jump into a chat room or into a group, you're
• 57:00
  going to constantly see people that are like,
• 57:02
  yeah, I'm. yeah i'm a d -gen too i'm a d -gen
• 57:05
  too and there's a there's some encouragement
• 57:06
  that ends up happening from that empowerment
• 57:08
  that ends up happening from that instead of deterrence
• 57:12
  yeah um or uh or checking like you actually get
• 57:15
  validated in some instances you know some of
• 57:18
  these um some of these live breaks you know the
• 57:20
  chat is just like yeah d -gen away mf like and
• 57:23
  and instead of lfg yeah yeah yeah yeah or yeah
• 57:27
  or yolo is one i've seen quite a lot you know
• 57:31
  So I think that, like you said, it's important
• 57:34
  that there are people out there posting experiences
• 57:36
  that are grounding and relative to what they're
• 57:40
  doing and putting in these guardrails, like you
• 57:41
  said, like a shopping cart and walk away kind
• 57:43
  of thing. That needs to happen more instead of
• 57:49
  just this open encouragement that ends up happening
• 57:51
  when you sometimes are just looking for someone
• 57:54
  to stop you. And some people don't know that
• 57:56
  they're looking to be stopped when they say things.
• 58:00
  And that's not what ends up happening. And instead
• 58:02
  they, you know, keep going. Yeah. I think, yeah,
• 58:07
  all of this is so important, right? I think one
• 58:11
  of the things people really need to understand
• 58:13
  about the modern hobby is just how sophisticated
• 58:15
  some of these experiences have become, particularly
• 58:19
  when you start looking at the digital ripping
• 58:22
  and the repacks and the mystery products and
• 58:24
  the live breaking. I mean, every platform, every...
• 58:29
  you know manufacturer has their own version of
• 58:32
  it the digital the digital rip whatever you want
• 58:35
  to call it the instant rip the e -pack and you
• 58:39
  know again i want to be careful here because
• 58:41
  i don't think every company is intentionally
• 58:43
  trying to exploit customers and there's nothing
• 58:46
  inherently wrong with creating creating an exciting
• 58:48
  experience around collecting especially as it
• 58:51
  pertains to digital consumption which is really
• 58:54
  where the world has has got you know uh gone
• 58:58
  uh in 2026 right so we we also have to you know
• 59:02
  recognize that many of them the mechanisms that
• 59:05
  are being used today are incredibly effective
• 59:07
  at influencing human behavior right the the randomized
• 59:11
  outcomes the variable rewards the scarcity the
• 59:13
  countdown timers the limited time offers the
• 59:16
  flashing animations the gratification like the
• 59:19
  little jingle that plays when you attack the
• 59:22
  visual itself It's the constant possibility that
• 59:27
  your next purchase could deliver something extraordinarily
• 59:29
  valuable. And those mechanics aren't necessarily
• 59:32
  unique to collecting. We see similar principles
• 59:35
  in gambling, in video games, in mobile apps,
• 59:39
  other digital experiences designed to encourage
• 59:41
  repeated engagement. You know, somebody recently
• 59:45
  showed me their local car wash app, which when
• 59:49
  you open, the first thing you see is like a wheel.
• 59:52
  right it's like a wheel that you would see on
• 59:54
  Whatnot or the wheel of fortune and you spin
• 59:57
  it before you engage with anything else and it
• 59:59
  offers you like a free car wash or something
• 1:00:01
  like that everything is being gamified everything
• 1:00:04
  is being gamified right and the really important
• 1:00:07
  thing to understand about dopamine is that this
• 1:00:10
  isn't simply the chemical response for pleasure
• 1:00:12
  it's deeply involved in things like motivation
• 1:00:15
  anticipation reward learning and the drive to
• 1:00:19
  seek out another opportunity so think about what
• 1:00:22
  happens when someone participates in the digital
• 1:00:24
  rip right you make a purchase you get that moment
• 1:00:27
  of anticipation there's an animation or there's
• 1:00:30
  a reveal and you discover what you've received
• 1:00:32
  maybe it's something incredibly valuable maybe
• 1:00:35
  it's something worth considered considerably
• 1:00:37
  less than what you spent but either way you've
• 1:00:40
  experienced this entire cycle of anticipation
• 1:00:42
  uncertainty and the resolution in a matter of
• 1:00:46
  seconds and then almost immediately you're presented
• 1:00:49
  with an opportunity to do it again that's where
• 1:00:52
  things can become particularly challenging for
• 1:00:54
  certain individuals right because when rewards
• 1:00:56
  are unpredictable the brain can learn to associate
• 1:01:00
  the activity itself with the possibility of a
• 1:01:03
  reward and that anticipation can become incredibly
• 1:01:06
  motivating motivating even when the outcomes
• 1:01:08
  are uh consistently positive so it's one of the
• 1:01:12
  reasons i think variable reward systems can be
• 1:01:15
  so powerful right when you combine those systems
• 1:01:18
  with frictionless purchasing right the saved
• 1:01:20
  payment right or uh immediate access being able
• 1:01:24
  to do it at two in the morning after a few you
• 1:01:26
  know after a night out right like where someone
• 1:01:29
  can participate again and again and again with
• 1:01:32
  just a couple of like, you know, seamless clicks,
• 1:01:36
  you're reducing the time and the opportunity
• 1:01:38
  they have to reflect on what they're doing. So
• 1:01:41
  what used to require someone to drive to a brick
• 1:01:43
  and mortar store, buy a box, bring it home and
• 1:01:47
  open it can now happen repeatedly in seconds
• 1:01:49
  from their phone at virtually any time of the
• 1:01:52
  day or night. It removes the considered purchase.
• 1:01:56
  mechanism, doesn't it? It takes away that. Proper
• 1:02:00
  R &D and marketing isn't what I'm trying to punish
• 1:02:03
  right here. I'm just saying that it's very apparent
• 1:02:07
  that it's very easy to hook us onto things through
• 1:02:10
  these mechanisms like you're saying. What people
• 1:02:14
  don't always see with the same frequency are
• 1:02:17
  the hundreds or thousands of purchases that didn't
• 1:02:20
  produce a positive outcome. Not until the next
• 1:02:22
  morning. Yeah. I mean, the thing is, like, through
• 1:02:26
  marketing, through advertising, through social
• 1:02:28
  media, you know, there's a sense of what we call
• 1:02:31
  survivorship bias, where you only see the highlight
• 1:02:35
  reel. You only see, you know, the hits. And that
• 1:02:39
  can create a distorted perception of what's realistically
• 1:02:43
  achievable. Now you add in all these other bells
• 1:02:46
  and whistles, right? The countdown timers, the
• 1:02:48
  limited inventory, the exclusive drops, you know,
• 1:02:51
  the fear that if you don't participate right
• 1:02:53
  now, you're going to miss your opportunity. Suddenly,
• 1:02:56
  someone isn't necessarily making a thoughtful
• 1:02:58
  collecting decision anymore. They may be reacting
• 1:03:01
  to urgency or excitement or social pressure or
• 1:03:04
  the possibility of a reward. And marketing absolutely
• 1:03:07
  plays a role in this. we can't we can't ignore
• 1:03:12
  that right some of the largest companies in digital
• 1:03:14
  commerce have access to incredibly sophisticated
• 1:03:17
  consumer data they have marketing teams behavioral
• 1:03:21
  research technology that allows them to understand
• 1:03:24
  what captures people's attention and encourages
• 1:03:28
  the repeat engagement so you know the broader
• 1:03:32
  point here is that modern digital experiences
• 1:03:35
  They can be optimized to increase engagement,
• 1:03:38
  repeat purchases, and just shorten the time spent
• 1:03:44
  to make a purchasing decision and increase the
• 1:03:49
  time spent on a platform. And those same design
• 1:03:52
  choices can create risks for vulnerable consumers.
• 1:03:55
  And that's something I experienced personally.
• 1:03:58
  Again, when I was struggling with the gambling,
• 1:04:01
  it wasn't always about the money I might win.
• 1:04:03
  A tremendous amount of the appeal. was tied to
• 1:04:06
  that dopamine high that anticipation the uncertainty
• 1:04:09
  the possibility that the next opportunity would
• 1:04:12
  be different and when i redirected that energy
• 1:04:14
  into the hobby particularly with breaks and you
• 1:04:18
  know uh personals and randomized products i recognize
• 1:04:21
  many of those same feelings and i could rationalize
• 1:04:23
  it because i was getting a physical collectible
• 1:04:27
  in return but the underlying motivation wasn't
• 1:04:30
  always about collecting the car sometimes you
• 1:04:32
  know i wasn't chasing the the card. I was chasing
• 1:04:35
  that feeling that came with the possibility of
• 1:04:39
  getting the card. And that's something that once
• 1:04:41
  you recognize, it's like you see the matrix for
• 1:04:45
  the first time. You see the code. You see what's
• 1:04:47
  going on behind the scenes. And for someone who
• 1:04:50
  has a healthy relationship with collecting, again,
• 1:04:53
  those experiences can be entertaining and they
• 1:04:55
  may very well know what they're getting themselves
• 1:04:58
  into. But for somebody struggling or somebody
• 1:05:01
  vulnerable or impressionable, or just easily
• 1:05:05
  drawn in by a marketing ad or by social media
• 1:05:10
  or what their friends are doing. Things like
• 1:05:12
  compulsive spending, gambling -related behaviors,
• 1:05:15
  difficulty regulating their impulses, the combination
• 1:05:18
  of uncertainty, speed, accessibility, and repeated
• 1:05:21
  opportunities to purchase can become very problematic.
• 1:05:25
  And that's why we focus so heavily on education
• 1:05:28
  and awareness. Well, societally, we do it to
• 1:05:31
  ourselves. If you look at a release day, Ian,
• 1:05:34
  on any group, it's nothing but hits. Hits, hits,
• 1:05:39
  hits. Every now and again, you get someone who
• 1:05:43
  deliberately will post a video and say, look
• 1:05:45
  what I hit. It turns out they're doing it to
• 1:05:48
  troll everyone. They're showing that I've done
• 1:05:53
  it myself. I've deliberately done that and got
• 1:05:55
  people to engage with it by the clickbait. It
• 1:05:57
  turns out I've just pulled all base cards. prove
• 1:06:01
  a point to say look you know you're engaging
• 1:06:04
  with this and i've i've gotten from people in
• 1:06:07
  comments saying you maybe watch that it's like
• 1:06:09
  well yeah because i'm kind of making a point
• 1:06:12
  a release day for a good product is is almost
• 1:06:14
  worse than a wedding for an alcoholic you know
• 1:06:17
  oh yeah especially because the prices are you
• 1:06:20
  know uh through the roof the week of release
• 1:06:22
  right like yeah you know the every product you
• 1:06:26
  you see come you see that comes out The prices
• 1:06:29
  of the singles, of the hits, they drop drastically
• 1:06:33
  over the following weeks and months because people
• 1:06:37
  move on to the next thing. So, yeah, I mean,
• 1:06:40
  Keith, I couldn't agree more with that. Have
• 1:06:42
  you guys heard of this expression, survivorship
• 1:06:44
  bias? Most people haven't, which is why I asked.
• 1:06:48
  Yeah, the concept of it, I understand the concept,
• 1:06:52
  but I have not heard the phrase. So, yeah, go
• 1:06:54
  for it. So survivorship bias actually comes from
• 1:06:58
  a famous example involving World War II planes.
• 1:07:01
  So military analysts studied planes returning
• 1:07:05
  from battle and initially thought they should
• 1:07:07
  reinforce the areas with the most bullet holes,
• 1:07:10
  right? But statistically, they recognized that
• 1:07:14
  they were looking at the planes that survived.
• 1:07:16
  The areas without bullet holes were potentially
• 1:07:19
  the most vulnerable because planes hit there
• 1:07:21
  weren't making it home. And that's exactly what
• 1:07:25
  we're seeing in collecting. We see the massive
• 1:07:27
  hits, the incredible pulls, the success stories,
• 1:07:30
  but we don't see the people who spent money chasing
• 1:07:34
  those same outcomes walking away with very little.
• 1:07:37
  So we're making judgments based on the winners
• 1:07:40
  while overlooking everyone else. Yeah, wow. Wow,
• 1:07:45
  that's a... Yeah, that's going to sit in my head
• 1:07:51
  for a little bit. One of the things I found that
• 1:07:56
  I was doing, and I don't know how relatable this
• 1:08:00
  is, is self -justification of actions I was doing.
• 1:08:05
  And I was aware of the fact that I was doing
• 1:08:08
  something I maybe shouldn't have done, so I would
• 1:08:10
  make up, I would put in a small win. to kind
• 1:08:15
  of say well at least i did that at least i didn't
• 1:08:18
  do this and so you know it's all part of the
• 1:08:21
  justification of still being able to carry on
• 1:08:23
  a pattern of activity but maybe just maybe just
• 1:08:26
  vary the route that i was i was going through
• 1:08:29
  um you know i've done this but that's okay because
• 1:08:32
  i chose to do that um absolutely or i didn't
• 1:08:37
  do that yeah yeah i'm not as good as that guy
• 1:08:40
  um yeah i i know for a fact i i recognized unhealthy
• 1:08:43
  patterns i knew something was going on but i
• 1:08:46
  used not going into debt um doing well on the
• 1:08:50
  investments that i made as a a armor to not get
• 1:08:55
  judged to have people actually in my corner telling
• 1:08:58
  me to bet more telling me to buy more cards because
• 1:09:02
  i was doing what me simultaneously isolating
• 1:09:07
  my wife and creating the separate account thing
• 1:09:10
  can be a great thing as a safeguard. It can also
• 1:09:14
  be a way for you to hide money from your spouse.
• 1:09:16
  Yeah. That goes to positive outcome, not being
• 1:09:20
  positive behavior, just because you're winning
• 1:09:22
  and you're not at your kid's soccer game. Doesn't
• 1:09:25
  mean that that's a good outcome. Like when you
• 1:09:28
  come from certain areas like sport. that victory
• 1:09:31
  can be unbelievably addictive because it's connected
• 1:09:34
  to your amount of effort and energy in your mind.
• 1:09:36
  So how hard you're working towards this means
• 1:09:40
  maybe you win more bets than you lose. How hard
• 1:09:42
  and how much you care about what you're buying
• 1:09:45
  when you're buying these cards may mean you might
• 1:09:48
  make more money or be able to buy more cards
• 1:09:50
  or start companies and toys and all this other
• 1:09:54
  jazz. It doesn't mean that there's not negative
• 1:09:56
  things happening simultaneously. and so that's
• 1:10:00
  that's where it for me personally it comes into
• 1:10:03
  a wow you know you you do you like you say and
• 1:10:06
  you justify um and you know it's something you
• 1:10:11
  gotta self -reflect and make sure uh these things
• 1:10:14
  aren't all you know um debt isn't it's not win
• 1:10:19
  or lose connected to that there's there's all
• 1:10:22
  these other things that can be happening regardless
• 1:10:24
  of of where financially uh things have landed
• 1:10:29
  So that's just something new, relatively new
• 1:10:32
  for me to understand. I tell you what, I'm very
• 1:10:36
  careful, and I think you've kind of said this
• 1:10:39
  in a much less verbose way than this, but just
• 1:10:42
  so that I can get it out of my head. I've been
• 1:10:44
  thinking for the last 15 minutes about the fact
• 1:10:46
  that... there was a very famous in the uk like
• 1:10:50
  a money guy and the the program was on bbc and
• 1:10:54
  he'd kind of go in and he'd check out someone's
• 1:10:56
  finances and he he kind of stopped them spending
• 1:11:00
  in certain areas and all this sort of stuff and
• 1:11:01
  one of the things that stuck with me and this
• 1:11:03
  was this was over a decade ago now before things
• 1:11:06
  got as advanced as they are in the digital ecosystem
• 1:11:08
  that i know you've experienced working in as
• 1:11:10
  a business Alyx so you you know of what you speak
• 1:11:13
  is that pretty much everything out there is designed
• 1:11:15
  to take your money from your pocket and put it
• 1:11:18
  in that company's pocket right you know that
• 1:11:20
  that's that's kind of the way of things and that's
• 1:11:22
  nothing new right no it's nothing new amplified
• 1:11:25
  yeah um and there's no there's no you know i
• 1:11:30
  I've worked in marketing and with clients whereby
• 1:11:33
  we're always looking to optimize. We're always
• 1:11:36
  looking to increase that spend per head, that
• 1:11:38
  dwell time, that engagement time, which will
• 1:11:40
  lead to advocacy, which will ultimately lead
• 1:11:43
  to more revenue at the end of the day. However
• 1:11:46
  you address it up, whether you call it the value
• 1:11:48
  exchange or whatever it is, ultimately this company
• 1:11:50
  wants to hire you as a marketing agency to make
• 1:11:53
  more money for them and improve the process of
• 1:11:55
  doing that. And there's no shame in that. you
• 1:11:58
  know that's that's the way the world works that's
• 1:12:00
  that's commerce this is the world that we live
• 1:12:04
  in but it's interesting you mentioned you've
• 1:12:07
  obviously talked about a couple of things that
• 1:12:08
  are very us focused in the uk we have a a charity
• 1:12:12
  in the uk called gamble aware and they've gotten
• 1:12:15
  a lot of aspects of the industry the sky bet
• 1:12:17
  bet 365 all these companies that do all these
• 1:12:20
  things um to put in campaign slogans at various
• 1:12:25
  points. I think the overall thing is take time
• 1:12:27
  to think. But they've got a couple of things
• 1:12:32
  that they do and they put them on all the adverts
• 1:12:34
  now. And how effective they are, I don't know.
• 1:12:36
  And I don't know if they do it. And this is a
• 1:12:38
  phrase that I find very interesting. And Alyx,
• 1:12:42
  I don't know if this is something you have in
• 1:12:44
  the US. CSR, Corporate Social Responsibility.
• 1:12:48
  um which i've i i have touched on before because
• 1:12:51
  i i think that while there's no shade in a company
• 1:12:55
  like doing its thing and you know having you
• 1:12:59
  know earning revenue and becoming more successful
• 1:13:01
  and building and giving back to shareholders
• 1:13:04
  i also think there needs to be i i personally
• 1:13:07
  feel there has to be an element where you're
• 1:13:09
  aware of your your bigger social responsibility
• 1:13:12
  it's not necessarily always about ethics or morals
• 1:13:15
  because that can be very subjective thing but
• 1:13:17
  you know Putting just slogans on such as when
• 1:13:20
  the fun stops, stop just to tick a box. I mean,
• 1:13:25
  is that enough or should some of these companies
• 1:13:28
  just have you experienced them? I guess is the
• 1:13:31
  question. Having an awareness of the fact that
• 1:13:34
  they have this corporate social responsibility.
• 1:13:37
  Is that even a thing in America? Well, as it
• 1:13:41
  pertains to the disclaimer, I mean, let's talk
• 1:13:44
  about Rip Responsibly because that's really where
• 1:13:46
  it starts with the collectibles industry and
• 1:13:49
  implementing this type of message and disclaimer.
• 1:13:52
  i think you know it's it's this is a really important
• 1:13:55
  distinction because Rip Responsibly is a starting
• 1:13:58
  point it's not a solution uh in in of itself
• 1:14:02
  right like it's about creating awareness encouraging
• 1:14:04
  people to be mindful of their behaviors and normalizing
• 1:14:07
  conversations about responsible collecting but
• 1:14:10
  awareness alone as important as it is isn't enough
• 1:14:13
  to prevent harm We can tell someone to Rip Responsibly
• 1:14:16
  all day long, but if they're struggling with
• 1:14:18
  compulsive spending or gambling related behaviors
• 1:14:20
  or an inability to control their impulses, you
• 1:14:23
  know, a hashtag or a disclaimer isn't going to
• 1:14:26
  solve that. And I think we also need to recognize
• 1:14:29
  that responsibility shouldn't fall entirely on
• 1:14:32
  the individual. right like we're adults like
• 1:14:35
  we should be able to make grown -up decisions
• 1:14:36
  but at the same time platforms manufacturers
• 1:14:39
  breakers other operators they have opportunities
• 1:14:43
  to help create environments that support healthier
• 1:14:46
  participation and that's why we're working to
• 1:14:48
  take Rip Responsibly beyond the messaging and
• 1:14:52
  connect it to a meaningful action Right. Education,
• 1:14:55
  spending awareness, voluntary safeguards, harm
• 1:14:58
  reduction, early intervention, access to support.
• 1:15:01
  Right. Like they often say, like, if you're a
• 1:15:05
  gambling addict, you're not going to get anywhere
• 1:15:07
  until you self exclude, because until you self
• 1:15:10
  exclude, you're not going to stop. Right. As
• 1:15:13
  as addicts, we always find a way. There's always
• 1:15:17
  going to be a moment of vulnerability that, you
• 1:15:20
  know, enters. the situation the circumstance
• 1:15:24
  where you feel compelled to go back to an old
• 1:15:27
  pattern or an old behavior that once brought
• 1:15:29
  you comfort but by creating that barrier and
• 1:15:32
  preventing yourself from being able to participate
• 1:15:35
  in that environment it creates uh not just a
• 1:15:38
  physical distance but an emotional distance because
• 1:15:41
  you know whether it be consciously or subconsciously
• 1:15:44
  that you can no longer physically engage with
• 1:15:46
  that that activity anymore so it's no longer
• 1:15:48
  creeping into your mind there's no longer that
• 1:15:51
  that devil on your shoulder right just telling
• 1:15:53
  you like it's okay just go do it one time one
• 1:15:55
  time like you know and then and then we'll stop
• 1:15:57
  and for some people responsible collecting you
• 1:16:01
  know might mean setting boundaries and collecting
• 1:16:03
  intentionally but for others again it might mean
• 1:16:06
  recognizing that abstinence is the healthiest
• 1:16:08
  option so ultimately Rip Responsibly starts the
• 1:16:11
  conversation the real work is making sure that
• 1:16:14
  there's education accountability and support
• 1:16:17
  behind it and these platforms these hobby operators
• 1:16:19
  that we're working with are creating guard rails
• 1:16:22
  they're creating uh uh uh some friction between
• 1:16:26
  the collector the consumer and the purchasing
• 1:16:30
  decision so again Rip Responsibly isn't the entire
• 1:16:34
  solution it's just the invitation to be part
• 1:16:37
  of one starts the conversation yeah i've always
• 1:16:40
  felt i mean i've always felt that Because on
• 1:16:47
  a lot of betting sites now, you can set limits.
• 1:16:50
  So they give users controls to be able to do
• 1:16:54
  stuff. And they're not perfect, right? People,
• 1:16:58
  again, addicts especially, will find a way. I'm
• 1:17:01
  not going to sit here and go through a laundry
• 1:17:02
  list of ways. You can gamble through a bookie.
• 1:17:06
  You can go offshore. You can bet on somebody
• 1:17:09
  else's account. Of course, there are ways. But
• 1:17:12
  what self -excluding does, is it creates a moment
• 1:17:16
  of pause right so it's not as frictionless so
• 1:17:20
  for somebody who is urge surfing as we call it
• 1:17:23
  and going through you know that that feeling
• 1:17:26
  of emotional weakness wanting to engage with
• 1:17:30
  you know an unhealthy behavior uh if it's immediate
• 1:17:34
  and it's accessible and you could just fire up
• 1:17:37
  your phone and do it instantly that becomes exponentially
• 1:17:40
  easier than if you're self -excluded and now
• 1:17:43
  you first have to figure out like you know who
• 1:17:46
  can i call like whose account can i use whose
• 1:17:49
  social security number do i know uh you know
• 1:17:51
  what offshore account do i use and for me it
• 1:17:54
  was like a huge part of the dopamine high was
• 1:17:57
  the instant gratification getting the money directly
• 1:18:00
  into my checking account the same day you you
• 1:18:02
  wouldn't get that with a bookie you wouldn't
• 1:18:04
  get that with an offshore uh platform or something
• 1:18:07
  of that nature so the whole concept just completely
• 1:18:11
  went out the window and i haven't even like had
• 1:18:13
  an urge to gamble you know within the traditional
• 1:18:16
  sense since i self -excluded right because i
• 1:18:20
  can't anymore i physically can't and again it
• 1:18:22
  creates that barrier it creates that opportunity
• 1:18:25
  to pause and reconsider and that's that's really
• 1:18:28
  what um urge surfing is all about so that's interesting
• 1:18:33
  so just Am I right in taking it then that you,
• 1:18:41
  because you mentioned that you were collecting
• 1:18:44
  cards. Have you stopped collecting cards? Is
• 1:18:47
  that your kind of? I am not practicing abstinence
• 1:18:50
  at this stage. I am practicing intentional collecting.
• 1:18:54
  It's my version of harm reduction. And again,
• 1:18:56
  everybody's different. Everybody's wired differently.
• 1:18:58
  You know, I'm a firm believer that, you know,
• 1:19:01
  a lot of the success that Collectors MD has. uh
• 1:19:05
  directly correlates with my own actions so i
• 1:19:08
  really am holding myself accountable in a lot
• 1:19:11
  of ways by being you know this this uh figurehead
• 1:19:15
  of of Collectors MD if you will of responsible
• 1:19:18
  engagement right that's what i've established
• 1:19:20
  um over the last year and a half and so what
• 1:19:23
  once was just you know organized chaos hundreds
• 1:19:28
  of sneakers tens of thousands of cards memorabilia
• 1:19:32
  watches i mean i was just endless what i consumed
• 1:19:36
  right has now been um really uh minimized to
• 1:19:42
  a a curated collection you could see some of
• 1:19:46
  what's left of my sneaker collection behind me
• 1:19:48
  for those watching yeah video yeah um what you
• 1:19:52
  see behind me is like 30 pairs uh you know reduced
• 1:19:56
  from 550 i mean that's pretty significant right
• 1:20:00
  but For me, I can appreciate it so much more
• 1:20:03
  now because I'm no longer just chasing the next
• 1:20:05
  release and then it comes in and I'm on to the
• 1:20:08
  next. These are like my favorite pairs that I've
• 1:20:10
  had for 10, 15 years that mean something to me,
• 1:20:14
  right? And I can enjoy and appreciate them that
• 1:20:17
  much more because I have significantly more mental
• 1:20:22
  and emotional bandwidth to be able to do so,
• 1:20:25
  if that makes sense. And again, everybody's different.
• 1:20:27
  Like 500, 1 ,000 pairs of sneakers might work
• 1:20:30
  for somebody. They might be able to afford it
• 1:20:32
  and it might, you know, be something that brings
• 1:20:34
  them fulfillment, joy, happiness, excitement,
• 1:20:38
  and they're staying within their means. But for
• 1:20:39
  me, you know, for me, what I've learned is that
• 1:20:42
  a smaller curated collection is so much more
• 1:20:46
  fulfilling and brings so much more joy than just,
• 1:20:50
  you know, having everything. I agree. I agree.
• 1:20:54
  Like even like the wall behind me is the same.
• 1:20:56
  Aside from the comic books, anything else on
• 1:20:58
  my wall has a story. Like, I got this Wolverine
• 1:21:02
  from the artist through an Instagram post. He
• 1:21:04
  posted it, and I DMed him, and he was like, yeah,
• 1:21:07
  sure, it's available. So there's a story behind
• 1:21:09
  it. The sketch is over there. It's a Palumbo
• 1:21:11
  that I interacted with him and got a Bella that
• 1:21:14
  I saw at Comic -Con. Like, the stuff that has
• 1:21:18
  a story means way more to me than, again, filling
• 1:21:22
  my wall with just that. Yeah. I mean, I have,
• 1:21:25
  like, I have... A $10 card or a card that's worth
• 1:21:29
  $10, that means so much more to me than a card
• 1:21:33
  that I once owned that was worth five figures,
• 1:21:36
  right? Because it's a card that I had since I
• 1:21:39
  was a kid. When I look at it, it reminds me of
• 1:21:42
  fond memories of childhood, of connection, of
• 1:21:45
  spending time watching the Bulls and Jazz battle
• 1:21:48
  it out in the finals in the 90s with my dad.
• 1:21:50
  Like, that's what it's all about. And it's a
• 1:21:52
  Michael Jordan card I'm referencing. But, you
• 1:21:54
  know, like, that's what it's about. It's not
• 1:21:57
  about, like, what's hottest today. You know,
• 1:22:00
  everybody's after Cooper Flagg or Victor Weminyama
• 1:22:03
  or whoever's, you know, the flavor of the month.
• 1:22:07
  Like, it's about enjoying what you love. Like,
• 1:22:10
  that Wolverine poster is gorgeous. I'm personally
• 1:22:13
  not, like, a big, you know, DC Marvel type of
• 1:22:16
  guy. I'm not into, like, you know, action figures
• 1:22:19
  or comics. I like the Marvel movies, don't get
• 1:22:22
  me wrong, but I've never collected it. It's never
• 1:22:23
  been like my forte. But for you, Keith, like
• 1:22:26
  it means something. And so despite what it's
• 1:22:30
  worth, despite how much you paid for it, the
• 1:22:32
  journey, the story of acquiring it and now displaying
• 1:22:36
  it on your wall means so much to you. And that's
• 1:22:39
  what collecting is. It's about creating a collection,
• 1:22:44
  curating a collection and an experience that
• 1:22:48
  brings you joy, not. you know your followers
• 1:22:51
  on instagram or your favorite breaker and you
• 1:22:54
  think about think about pokemon too like the
• 1:22:58
  catchphrase for it was gotta catch them all oh
• 1:23:01
  yeah yeah the marketing's been there since day
• 1:23:05
  one it's just a matter of how it's yeah i was
• 1:23:07
  perceived and how literally you take it um one
• 1:23:11
  thing i find interesting about this this entire
• 1:23:13
  conversation and and we've gone well we've gone
• 1:23:17
  around the houses um my head is absolutely buzzing
• 1:23:20
  with with it at the moment so this is going to
• 1:23:22
  be i'm going to have a very thoughtful evening
• 1:23:24
  um i i'm pretty sure i've been practicing intentional
• 1:23:28
  collecting for a number of years now just without
• 1:23:30
  knowing that there's a there's a term for it
• 1:23:34
  without uh i mean i've said before guys you've
• 1:23:38
  heard me say that you know i've i've been opening
• 1:23:40
  products and rather than you know for a long
• 1:23:45
  time now i've not been looking to collect the
• 1:23:47
  full set I try and find joy in the product. And
• 1:23:51
  if there's one element to that product I really
• 1:23:53
  like, I'll just get a few of those. I agree.
• 1:23:56
  Rather than going the whole hog, which I was
• 1:24:00
  doing. Wow. I mean, it was a whole thing pre
• 1:24:03
  -COVID and even now to this day to a degree.
• 1:24:07
  But if you're a Marvel collector, you have to
• 1:24:09
  have all those. Yeah, you've got to have those
• 1:24:10
  90s ones. You've got to have all of those. And
• 1:24:13
  there was a kind of like a... yeah you're not
• 1:24:17
  a real marvel collector unless you've got all
• 1:24:19
  all these particular sets um it's like well where
• 1:24:23
  does that stop you cut it off at 2002 with with
• 1:24:26
  Topps uh whatever it was i can't remember the
• 1:24:29
  name now um do you cut it off at the end of written
• 1:24:32
  house do you where does that mark stop so um
• 1:24:37
  and that was that was a wonderful wonderful boat
• 1:24:41
  to step off I sold an awful lot of my complete
• 1:24:44
  Marvel sets, and I'm now to the point where I've
• 1:24:47
  kept sets, and people look at me and go, why
• 1:24:49
  have you kept that one? Nobody likes that set.
• 1:24:51
  The reason I've kept it is because I have memories
• 1:24:56
  of collecting that set physically and on e-Pack
• 1:24:59
  with people who are now close friends. So that
• 1:25:03
  set means a lot to me. That's the beauty of it.
• 1:25:06
  Some people, like you just said, Ian, Some people
• 1:25:10
  already collect intentionally before even coming
• 1:25:12
  across collector's MD or the mantra, right? And
• 1:25:15
  that's exactly the point. Like, I'm not here
• 1:25:17
  to mansplain collecting or tell people there's
• 1:25:21
  a right or wrong way to enjoy the hobby. It's
• 1:25:24
  just about creating awareness, encouraging self
• 1:25:26
  -reflection, and empowering people to make informed
• 1:25:29
  decisions about what a healthy relationship with
• 1:25:31
  collecting looks like for them. Because what's
• 1:25:34
  healthy for one person just might not be healthy
• 1:25:36
  for another. So we're not here to define that
• 1:25:39
  for anybody. We're here to provide education,
• 1:25:42
  resources, support, thoughtful awareness, really
• 1:25:47
  help people recognize that for themselves. Yeah,
• 1:25:50
  I have to say, I'm sure Keith and Josh will attest
• 1:25:54
  to the fact we've had plenty of rocks thrown
• 1:25:55
  at us. from people who perceive them telling
• 1:25:58
  them how to collect or what they should do. We
• 1:26:01
  haven't been, but we reserve the right to judge
• 1:26:04
  them for their actions. I am, of course, slightly
• 1:26:07
  joking. People listening will know where I come
• 1:26:11
  from on that one. Wow. Okay, so the peer stuff,
• 1:26:16
  the peer group stuff, how can someone become
• 1:26:18
  involved in that? Is that a virtual thing? Because
• 1:26:20
  in my head, I've got an image of, I mean, we've
• 1:26:24
  all seen the shows and such. Oh, there's a meeting.
• 1:26:26
  there's a meeting tomorrow and you've got apps
• 1:26:28
  where it can tell you where there's a meeting.
• 1:26:29
  The meetings are virtual. So it's really simple.
• 1:26:33
  We host these free, confidential peer support
• 1:26:36
  meetings every Wednesday from 8 to 9 p .m. Eastern.
• 1:26:39
  They take place on Google Meet. So anyone who's
• 1:26:42
  struggling with any of the things we're talking
• 1:26:44
  about today, compulsive collecting, overspending,
• 1:26:47
  gambling adjacent behaviors is welcome. Whether
• 1:26:50
  they're actively seeking recovery, exploring
• 1:26:52
  intentional collecting, or just starting to question
• 1:26:55
  the relationship with the hobby, right? We have
• 1:26:57
  folks that come in that haven't even thought
• 1:27:00
  about the fact that they might have a problem.
• 1:27:03
  They don't even have a problem. They just want
• 1:27:05
  to create a sense of personal accountability.
• 1:27:11
  before things get there and some folks join who
• 1:27:14
  are genuinely just curious and want to learn
• 1:27:17
  more or spouses or loved ones or parents that
• 1:27:21
  you know want to have the language to be able
• 1:27:23
  to speak to a lot of this and provide support
• 1:27:25
  for someone they care about that is going through
• 1:27:28
  this so there's no pressure to share you can
• 1:27:31
  keep your camera off you can use a nickname and
• 1:27:34
  simply just listen they're anonymous meetings
• 1:27:36
  they're open we also welcome uh uh you know clinicians
• 1:27:41
  professionals industry leaders who want to just
• 1:27:45
  better understand what someone is experiencing
• 1:27:47
  and all you have to do is visit collectorsmd
• 1:27:49
  .com to learn more and sign up you know again
• 1:27:52
  you don't need to identify as having an addiction
• 1:27:54
  and you certainly don't need to hit rock bottom
• 1:27:56
  to deserve support so um yeah sometimes the most
• 1:28:00
  important first step is just simply realizing
• 1:28:02
  that you're not alone this uh this show has been
• 1:28:07
  very therapeutic to me today. You're going to
• 1:28:11
  see more of me, I think, on these Wednesdays.
• 1:28:15
  It's awesome. I'm so glad to hear that. Sorry,
• 1:28:18
  not sorry, but I think you're going to see more
• 1:28:19
  of me. I was going to say, if those meetings
• 1:28:23
  weren't at stupid o 'clock in the morning UK
• 1:28:25
  time, I'd probably be in more. Yeah, you guys
• 1:28:28
  are absolutely welcome to join. But what you're
• 1:28:31
  doing, Alyx, is you're taking such a beneficial
• 1:28:34
  approach to people don't understand that oftentimes,
• 1:28:38
  especially in their individual situation, sometimes
• 1:28:42
  they don't understand unless it's connected to
• 1:28:46
  a rock bottom that they have these isolation
• 1:28:49
  issues with family or things they're hiding,
• 1:28:53
  things that are happening in a negative way coming
• 1:28:57
  from such. what was a positive hobby and has
• 1:28:59
  such great roots and origins for almost all of
• 1:29:02
  us. So we're always kind of confused, you know,
• 1:29:06
  Hey, this came from something positive and nostalgic
• 1:29:09
  in the childhood. And then as we move forward,
• 1:29:12
  especially if there's no huge signs you know,
• 1:29:16
  foreclosures or anything like that, then sometimes
• 1:29:19
  we don't aren't able to, to realize, but you're,
• 1:29:23
  you're coming from a educated standpoint you're
• 1:29:28
  giving people ammunition to help understand build
• 1:29:31
  their own awareness with exactly so yeah and
• 1:29:35
  i always caveat i'm i'm not like a certified
• 1:29:37
  clinician or therapist or doctor anything like
• 1:29:40
  that i'm just somebody who's lived through it
• 1:29:42
  and uh lived experience and peer support can
• 1:29:46
  help you know uh exponentially i mean i think
• 1:29:50
  professional pathways are important and uh just
• 1:29:53
  as if not more crucial to anybody's recovery
• 1:29:56
  journey. But again, like being able to hear from
• 1:29:59
  other people who have understood and can really
• 1:30:02
  respect the pain and the emotional and mental
• 1:30:07
  fallout that can come with a lot of what we're
• 1:30:09
  talking about. That's invaluable. It can't be
• 1:30:13
  taught. And so. That's what it's all about, man.
• 1:30:16
  And if you look at any 12 -step program, whether
• 1:30:18
  it be AA, NA, GA, we have our own recovery guide
• 1:30:22
  with a 12 -step program. Step 12 is all about
• 1:30:26
  paying it forward, turning pain into purpose,
• 1:30:28
  helping other people overcome a lot of the challenges
• 1:30:30
  that perhaps you once faced. And for me, step
• 1:30:33
  12 is everything. I've dedicated my life and
• 1:30:36
  career to recovery and to helping other people
• 1:30:38
  overcome a lot of these obstacles. Recovery is
• 1:30:45
  a lifelong commitment and there's no such thing
• 1:30:48
  as being healed or recovered from addiction.
• 1:30:51
  You can put it in, you know, what do they call
• 1:30:56
  it? Remission. Remission, yeah, remission. But,
• 1:31:01
  you know, we're susceptible to a relapse at any
• 1:31:05
  given point in life. You know, I would go to
• 1:31:07
  GA meetings in Jersey City when I lived there.
• 1:31:12
  You know, there was one guy in particular who
• 1:31:14
  was like a cornerstone of that meeting. He had
• 1:31:17
  been in that room for 20 plus years. Right. And
• 1:31:20
  one day he stopped showing up and we all were
• 1:31:22
  scratching our heads like, you know, where is
• 1:31:25
  this guy? You know, he's the rock. Like, you
• 1:31:28
  know, he is a huge part of these conversations
• 1:31:30
  every week. And as it turns out, you know, his
• 1:31:33
  father passed away. He lost his job simultaneously
• 1:31:36
  and he reverted back to old patterns and he relapsed
• 1:31:39
  and he erased 20 plus years. of of hard work
• 1:31:43
  and dedication towards his recovery and put himself
• 1:31:45
  in a an even bigger hole than he initially was
• 1:31:49
  in right and uh i think that speaks volumes about
• 1:31:53
  the fact that nobody nobody is uh immune to uh
• 1:31:58
  an experience like that things happen in life
• 1:32:01
  that are outside of our control that are inevitably
• 1:32:03
  going to create a trigger or an urge And we have
• 1:32:08
  to do our very best to maintain our recovery
• 1:32:11
  the same way we maintain our bodies or our mental
• 1:32:16
  health. It's very much a maintenance process
• 1:32:19
  the same way you would wake up in the morning
• 1:32:21
  and brush your teeth. And I'm talking about not
• 1:32:23
  just going to meetings, but taking personal inventory,
• 1:32:27
  practicing step work, showing up for others,
• 1:32:30
  reaching out to a sponsor or an accountability
• 1:32:33
  partner when things are starting to feel a little
• 1:32:35
  bit shaky. That's what recovery truly looks like.
• 1:32:38
  And again, it's a lifelong commitment. And we
• 1:32:39
  don't say that to sound daunting. People in recovery
• 1:32:42
  can live long, healthy, successful, fulfilling,
• 1:32:46
  beautiful lives, truly. It just becomes a part
• 1:32:50
  of your identity the same way as, you know, a
• 1:32:53
  religion might, right? So that's what recovery
• 1:32:55
  has been for me in the last three plus years.
• 1:32:59
  And yeah, recovery has given me. everything,
• 1:33:03
  but I'm still so early on in my, in my journey
• 1:33:06
  and my progress. And I have a ways to go before,
• 1:33:09
  you know, I can look back and say like, wow,
• 1:33:12
  this is really a foundation. Right. So again,
• 1:33:17
  like we've preach one day at a time, you have
• 1:33:21
  to approach recovery one day at a time, brick
• 1:33:23
  by brick, you know, celebrate the small wins,
• 1:33:26
  the small victories. And eventually you will
• 1:33:28
  get to a point where. recovery becomes as seamless
• 1:33:32
  as as simple as as brushing your teeth in the
• 1:33:36
  morning i'd like to chalk this conversation up
• 1:33:41
  as a as a as a bigger win um if that's okay certainly
• 1:33:45
  personally i'm i'm all up in my feels this episode
• 1:33:47
  and i've got so much spinning around my head
• 1:33:49
  um and i've not i've not come as close to tears
• 1:33:52
  recording an episode of this podcast in forever
• 1:33:54
  um so thank you for thank you for thank you basically
• 1:34:00
  if this is what paying it forward looks like
• 1:34:02
  thank you for saying that I'm humbled that I'm
• 1:34:05
  even able to make an impact on other people this
• 1:34:08
  way I've just got one and this is a bit of a
• 1:34:12
  personal question so bat this however you want
• 1:34:16
  to how is your you mentioned that you were married
• 1:34:19
  how has your wife been with this and with you
• 1:34:22
  doing this and seeing you channeling your efforts
• 1:34:27
  and being that 12 -step paying it forward almost
• 1:34:31
  permanently. Because I see you everywhere. You're
• 1:34:34
  doing a lot of stuff. You're obviously clearly
• 1:34:36
  putting yourself out there. How does that work?
• 1:34:43
  Yeah, that was a huge step that I had to take
• 1:34:47
  to put myself out there and be my most vulnerable
• 1:34:50
  self and really wear my heart on my sleeve publicly.
• 1:34:55
  It's been tough, right? Like, because, you know,
• 1:34:59
  from her standpoint, I put her through hell and
• 1:35:03
  back, right? She is stuck by my side through
• 1:35:06
  tumultuous times. We've only been married for
• 1:35:08
  now. Our wedding anniversary is coming up in
• 1:35:10
  a couple of weeks for four years, right? And
• 1:35:13
  it is certainly in a rebuilding process, right?
• 1:35:18
  I don't want to say that our relationship, our
• 1:35:20
  marriage is like fundamentally. fixed or perfect
• 1:35:23
  by any means. We still have a long ways to go
• 1:35:26
  on that front because of a lot of the damage
• 1:35:28
  that I created. But, you know, on the other side,
• 1:35:32
  it was tough for her because I'm putting myself
• 1:35:35
  out there, like you said, Ian, like whether it
• 1:35:38
  be a podcast or media coverage or a social media
• 1:35:41
  post, we have friends, family, colleagues that
• 1:35:45
  see me talking about my addiction and, you know,
• 1:35:50
  some of the lowest points of my life. you know,
• 1:35:53
  filing for bankruptcy, suicidal ideation, like,
• 1:35:56
  you know, a lot of that carries over into shame
• 1:36:01
  and guilt, not just for me personally, but for
• 1:36:03
  her as well. Right. So it has definitely been
• 1:36:06
  tough, but she has been supportive through this
• 1:36:09
  process. And I think what she's starting to see,
• 1:36:12
  especially as of late, is the impact that it's
• 1:36:15
  having on other people. you know the growth and
• 1:36:18
  trajectory of Collectors MD as an organization
• 1:36:21
  uh you know i i had the opportunity to present
• 1:36:24
  um a a keynote uh presentation in Nashville in
• 1:36:30
  this past July uh at the national council on
• 1:36:34
  problem gambling conference she attended she
• 1:36:37
  was like you know my my one supporter there and
• 1:36:39
  she sat in the back of the room and you know
• 1:36:42
  i referenced her multiple times and that was
• 1:36:43
  like really uh you know, a, a turning point for
• 1:36:47
  me personally, because it made me realize that
• 1:36:50
  like, I do have, you know, a cheerleader. I do
• 1:36:53
  have somebody that has stuck through my side
• 1:36:55
  through thick and thin. And that's what marriage
• 1:36:57
  really is all about. Right. Um, so again, it's,
• 1:37:01
  it's been challenging to say the least, but I
• 1:37:05
  wouldn't be where I am today without her. That's
• 1:37:09
  awesome. And you're going to have a lot more
• 1:37:11
  based on you've got more cheerleaders. Yeah,
• 1:37:14
  you got free right here. Thank you. That really
• 1:37:17
  means the world to us. You mentioned your appearance
• 1:37:19
  yesterday, so I think regionally you're going
• 1:37:21
  to see a lot of activity now, especially around
• 1:37:25
  all that. So it's awesome. And, yeah, we're definitely
• 1:37:28
  got you back too over here. Thank you, gentlemen.
• 1:37:32
  That really means the world, truly. We do have
• 1:37:34
  – I've been grafting away. I finally got the
• 1:37:37
  podcast website about to launch after. too long.
• 1:37:42
  I'm just not very good at this stuff, Alyx. But
• 1:37:45
  I think I've finally got it to us. Once Keith
• 1:37:49
  and Josh send me their bios, I can get that.
• 1:37:52
  Oh, look at him putting it on us, Josh. Like
• 1:37:54
  it's us. Like it's us that's rolled them up since
• 1:37:57
  2018. We're holding them up. You sent me your
• 1:38:00
  picture. You sent me your picture, but that's
• 1:38:02
  not going to cut it, I'm afraid. Otherwise, unless
• 1:38:04
  you want me to make it up. I'm sure you don't
• 1:38:08
  really want me doing that. Yeah, right. No, yeah,
• 1:38:09
  we can't do that. When I do, I'm going to be
• 1:38:12
  putting, I can resource it. and links thing on
• 1:38:15
  there and you will be in that definitely and
• 1:38:18
  um i would love to say right now that i would
• 1:38:22
  love you to come back on at some point in the
• 1:38:24
  future for you um just to tell us about you know
• 1:38:28
  if there's anything you've got that you want
• 1:38:29
  to shout about any new initiative any progress
• 1:38:32
  any anything really. You know, doors always open.
• 1:38:39
  And I'd love, I'd love to have you guys on The
• 1:38:40
  Collector's Compass as well. So we'll talk about
• 1:38:42
  bringing you on perhaps in the next couple of
• 1:38:45
  months. Yeah. A hundred percent. Absolutely.
• 1:38:49
  Where can, where can folks go before, before
• 1:38:51
  we let you sail off into your Sunday and rescue
• 1:38:54
  your beloved from Hoboken? She's home now. Where
• 1:39:02
  can folks go to find you on the interwebs, on
• 1:39:06
  Instagram, et cetera? Yeah, so you could check
• 1:39:10
  out our website, collectorsmd .com. We're also
• 1:39:13
  present across pretty much every social platform
• 1:39:16
  at collectorsmd, one word. We also have a nonprofit.
• 1:39:22
  foundation called the CMD Foundation. You can
• 1:39:24
  learn more about that just by visiting collectorsmd
• 1:39:27
  .com. We have a unique landing page for it that
• 1:39:30
  clicks out from the homepage. But we are doing
• 1:39:34
  a lot of things across the board. Again, we have
• 1:39:36
  five podcasts. Those episodes syndicate across
• 1:39:40
  YouTube, all the audio platforms, Apple, Amazon,
• 1:39:43
  Spotify, etc. been making my rounds across the
• 1:39:48
  hobby, across the behavioral health and problem
• 1:39:51
  gambling community. We've been covered by Barron's,
• 1:39:54
  the Wall Street Journal, the New York Times,
• 1:39:56
  GQ. We have pieces coming out very soon with
• 1:39:59
  NBC and CBS. So hopefully you'll be seeing our
• 1:40:04
  name more and more. And ultimately, again, it's
• 1:40:07
  not a victory lap to say, oh, look at all the
• 1:40:09
  success we're having. Look at me. I've become
• 1:40:11
  a hobby celebrity of sorts. No, it's not that
• 1:40:14
  whatsoever. That was never my My intent is just
• 1:40:17
  to spread awareness and to reach people who really
• 1:40:20
  need help and provide them with the space to
• 1:40:23
  find that solace and peace. Wow. Okay. We've
• 1:40:31
  done a lot of episodes. We've spoken to a lot
• 1:40:33
  of great people, and this is no shade on any
• 1:40:35
  of those. But for me, this is possibly one of
• 1:40:38
  the greatest episodes I think I've ever done
• 1:40:41
  because it will help others. The whole reason
• 1:40:48
  for this podcast was to help collectors and entertain.
• 1:40:52
  We all genuinely love this, but you are helping
• 1:40:55
  people enjoy this on a healthier basis. Keeping
• 1:41:00
  it in a healthy realm, in a healthy spectrum.
• 1:41:03
  We can't thank you enough for your efforts, man.
• 1:41:05
  Yeah, Josh, that's what it's all about. Thank
• 1:41:07
  you. I think at this point, without... Otherwise,
• 1:41:13
  we're just going to carry on and talk about stuff
• 1:41:15
  and it will turn into an anonymous therapy session.
• 1:41:20
  We should probably have you lead us out this
• 1:41:23
  week, Alyx, with our famous sign -off, which
• 1:41:25
  I believe you're going to add a little caveat
• 1:41:27
  to. I will. You ready? Oh, yeah. Enjoy collecting
• 1:41:32
  and make sure to collect with intention, not
• 1:41:35
  compulsion.