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Jean Spangler Pt. One · The Path Went Chilly

0:31
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Path, went Chili. I'm Robin. Before
0:34
Speaker 1: we start, I just wanted to mention that ash is
0:36
Speaker 1: going to be taking a few more weeks off for
0:37
Speaker 1: a personal issue. She had previously taken some time off
0:40
Speaker 1: and we were going to record this week, but there
0:42
Speaker 1: were some scheduling conflicts we couldn't get all three of
0:44
Speaker 1: us together. So for the moment at least, it'll just
0:47
Speaker 1: meet me telling some details about a case with jewels,
0:50
Speaker 1: and she'll be given off her a live reaction. But
0:52
Speaker 1: Ashley will hopefully be back within the next few weeks
0:55
Speaker 1: and we'll be glad to have her again. So, Jules,
0:58
Speaker 1: we're doing an old time Hollywood mystery this week. Have
1:01
Speaker 1: you ever heard of the disappearance of Gene Spangler.
1:04
Speaker 2: I have heard of this case. I can't think of
1:06
Speaker 2: the details offhand, but I love an old timey mystery,
1:09
Speaker 2: and I especially love an old timey Hollywood mystery.
1:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, there is definitely a lot to talk about in
1:15
Speaker 1: this one. It took place in Los Angeles in nineteen
1:18
Speaker 1: forty nine, only like a couple years after the Black
1:20
Speaker 1: Dolia Murder, and much like Elizabeth Short, Geen Spangler was
1:24
Speaker 1: an aspiring actress and she kind of looked like Elizabeth
1:27
Speaker 1: Short So there was speculation that maybe the cases were connected,
1:31
Speaker 1: even though Jean's body was never found, and there are
1:34
Speaker 1: number of twists and turns and possible theories, including the
1:36
Speaker 1: potential involvement of one of the biggest stars in Hollywood
1:40
Speaker 1: during this time period. So this is heavily talked about mystery,
1:44
Speaker 1: which is often cited as one of the biggest unsolved
1:46
Speaker 1: cases in the history of Hollywood.
1:49
Speaker 2: Well, I'm excited to hear the details because the name
1:52
Speaker 2: is familiar offhand, and I remember it being connected somehow
1:57
Speaker 2: to the Black Dolia case, but I can't, for the
1:59
Speaker 2: life of you recall exactly how. But I'm sure you're
2:02
Speaker 2: going to share all of those details, So I'm excited
2:05
Speaker 2: to get into.
2:05
Speaker 1: It, definitely. So Jean Spangler was a very interesting person.
2:09
Speaker 1: She was born in Seattle, Washington, but was hoping to
2:12
Speaker 1: launch a successful career as a Hollywood actress. In the
2:16
Speaker 1: early nineteen forties, she had gotten married to a plastics
2:19
Speaker 1: manufacturer named Dexter Benner, but within six months she would
2:23
Speaker 1: file for divorce, accusing her husband of cruelty. But in
2:26
Speaker 1: spite of that, it took a while for the divorce
2:28
Speaker 1: to actually get through because they would continue to maintain
2:31
Speaker 1: an on again, off again relationship, and she became pregnant
2:35
Speaker 1: with a daughter named Christine, who was born when Dexter
2:39
Speaker 1: enlisted to the army and was overseas serving in World
2:42
Speaker 1: War Two. When he returned to the United States. It
2:45
Speaker 1: sounds like they tried to make it work but just couldn't.
2:47
Speaker 1: So the divorce officially went through in the nineteen forty
2:50
Speaker 1: six and after a lengthy two year court battle, Jean
2:54
Speaker 1: was awarded custody of Christine and Dexter would get visitation
2:58
Speaker 1: every other weekend. It was kind of crazy researching this
3:01
Speaker 1: case is I look through the archives of newspapers dot
3:04
Speaker 1: com and found Gene Spangler's name listed in a bunch
3:07
Speaker 1: of articles in nineteen forty eight, the year before she
3:10
Speaker 1: went missing. Because back then the Los Angeles Times would
3:12
Speaker 1: actually report on custody battles between divorced couples. I guess
3:16
Speaker 1: maybe because divorces were far less common back then. And
3:19
Speaker 1: it's quite Hilary's to see some of the language. Because
3:22
Speaker 1: the judge ruled in Jane's favor and said that even
3:25
Speaker 1: quote unquote glamour girls can be good parents towards their children.
3:29
Speaker 1: So that's why he decided to give Christine to Jane.
3:32
Speaker 2: Wow, that's problematic, but definitely a product of its time.
3:36
Speaker 2: And I really shudder to think what type of marriage
3:39
Speaker 2: Jane and Jexter would have had, because in the nineteen forties,
3:43
Speaker 2: to get a divorce, like you said, they covered it
3:45
Speaker 2: in the Los Angeles Times, because divorce wasn't a common thing,
3:49
Speaker 2: So I'm assuming it was essentially like a War of
3:52
Speaker 2: the Roses type entertainment thing where people are like, oh,
3:55
Speaker 2: let's tune in to see who's getting divorced, and look
3:58
Speaker 2: at all like the sortid details. But I really would
4:02
Speaker 2: wonder what was going on in their marriage. If she
4:05
Speaker 2: was citing extreme cruelty, it must have been really bad
4:09
Speaker 2: for her to want to leave the marriage and to
4:12
Speaker 2: have that be the reason why. And then it makes
4:15
Speaker 2: me sad that she continued to have an on again,
4:18
Speaker 2: off again relationship, which so often happens with victims of
4:22
Speaker 2: domestic violence. And then for Dexter to be overseas and
4:26
Speaker 2: to give birth to her daughter and to be doing
4:28
Speaker 2: that all on her own, that seems like an insurmountable task.
4:32
Speaker 1: In the nineteen forties, Definitely, we're going to be talking
4:35
Speaker 1: a lot more about Dexter. And even though I haven't
4:37
Speaker 1: seen any direct accusations of domestic violence, it does sound
4:41
Speaker 1: like the guy was a jerk. But he had gotten
4:44
Speaker 1: remarried this point, to another woman, and Jean was technically
4:47
Speaker 1: still a single mother. She had not hooked up with
4:49
Speaker 1: anyone else. So for the courts to award custody of
4:53
Speaker 1: Christine to her, when we know that single mothers were
4:55
Speaker 1: looked down upon during the nineteen forties, probably shows that
4:59
Speaker 1: they decided that if she wound up with Dexter, it
5:01
Speaker 1: would be a pretty bad home life for the.
5:03
Speaker 2: Child, exactly. And I just want to clarify when I
5:06
Speaker 2: say domestic violence, I don't necessarily mean that he's putting
5:10
Speaker 2: his hands on her. But by the definition of ex
5:13
Speaker 2: of domestic violence, extreme cruelty would likely land within the
5:18
Speaker 2: parameters of our modern definition.
5:21
Speaker 1: Definitely, Yeah, so as possible. He was only verbally abusive
5:23
Speaker 1: towards her and never actually laid a hand on her,
5:26
Speaker 1: But it really did not sound like he was the
5:27
Speaker 1: most pleasant person. But before this, Jene had worked as
5:31
Speaker 1: a model and a showgirl. That's why she was referred
5:34
Speaker 1: to as a glamour girl by the judge in the
5:36
Speaker 1: custody case. But she was still hoping to make it
5:39
Speaker 1: as a Hollywood actress, and thankfully she had a very
5:42
Speaker 1: supportive mother named Florence, who said that she was going
5:46
Speaker 1: to help raise Christine while she pursued her dream and
5:49
Speaker 1: was seeking work. So by nineteen forty nine, Jean had
5:52
Speaker 1: joined the Screen Extras Guild and had obtained work as
5:55
Speaker 1: a bit player, dancer, or background extra in at least
5:58
Speaker 1: eight Hollywood productions, but because she didn't have any lines
6:01
Speaker 1: of dialogue and was not a center to the plot,
6:03
Speaker 1: she never actually received screen credit for any of these
6:06
Speaker 1: small roles, but she was still hoping to make it.
6:08
Speaker 1: She was twenty six years old at this point, so
6:11
Speaker 1: there was still some time for it. So on October
6:14
Speaker 1: the seventh, nineteen forty nine, Florence was away visiting family
6:17
Speaker 1: in Kentucky, so Jean's sister in law, Sophie, volunteered to
6:21
Speaker 1: visit from Saint Louis and stay at their apartment to
6:24
Speaker 1: help look after Christine because tragically, Jean's brother Edward had
6:29
Speaker 1: actually been killed during World War Two when his bomber
6:32
Speaker 1: went missing on a mission near Japan, which left Sophia
6:35
Speaker 1: a widow, but Jean still had a close relationship with her,
6:38
Speaker 1: so she volunteered to come to Los Angeles and watch
6:41
Speaker 1: over Christine. And on this particular night, October the seventh,
6:45
Speaker 1: Jean told Sophie that she was going to meet up
6:47
Speaker 1: with her ex husband to discuss an overdue child support payment,
6:51
Speaker 1: and after that she would spend the evening working on
6:53
Speaker 1: a film shoot. So at five PM, Jean said goodbye
6:57
Speaker 1: to Christine and Sophie and gave her a saying wish
7:01
Speaker 1: me luck before she left the apartment. Two and a
7:04
Speaker 1: half hours later, Jean's phone Sophie in order to check
7:07
Speaker 1: on Christine and see how she was doing, which was
7:09
Speaker 1: fairly common practice when she was gone. She would often
7:12
Speaker 1: call the apartment to see how Christine was doing, and
7:15
Speaker 1: she implied that she would not return home that evening
7:17
Speaker 1: because she would have quote unquote to work the full
7:20
Speaker 1: eight hours, which implied that she was going to be
7:23
Speaker 1: on a long production. But after the call ended, this
7:26
Speaker 1: would turn out to be the last time that Jane
7:28
Speaker 1: was confirmed to be alive.
7:30
Speaker 2: This to me, there's so many layers to this, Okay,
7:33
Speaker 2: So Jeane is twenty six and she's lived like a
7:36
Speaker 2: whole life. Most people when they're twenty six, maybe they're
7:40
Speaker 2: just getting out of college, they're starting in the workforce.
7:43
Speaker 2: But Jeane has already had a daughter, she's been married
7:46
Speaker 2: and divorced, she's lost her brother to war, Like this
7:50
Speaker 2: is a lot to be dealing with. And then she
7:52
Speaker 2: gets custody of her daughter and is told that, you know,
7:56
Speaker 2: even glamour girls are good mothers can be good mothers,
7:59
Speaker 2: which just tell you about the attitudes of the time,
8:01
Speaker 2: like you can't both be responsible and beautiful. And then
8:05
Speaker 2: she has this dream to be on the silver screen,
8:07
Speaker 2: which so many people had at the time, and I'm
8:10
Speaker 2: sure have in a different way now because the landscape
8:14
Speaker 2: has changed entirely.
8:16
Speaker 3: But it just it really.
8:17
Speaker 2: Hit me, like smacking the gut that this is somebody
8:20
Speaker 2: who is she's not a baby, but she is so
8:24
Speaker 2: young and this is so much responsibility, and it's great
8:28
Speaker 2: that they really have this it takes a village to
8:31
Speaker 2: raise a child type of mentality. With Florence stepping in
8:34
Speaker 2: and being a really good constant in Christine's life and
8:39
Speaker 2: there for Jean and in helping share the childcare responsibilities,
8:44
Speaker 2: and it's great that when Florence can't be there, that
8:46
Speaker 2: Sophie flies in to help look after Christine, and it
8:49
Speaker 2: sounds like Jeane is very present. Even while she's at work,
8:53
Speaker 2: she's calling in to check to see how Christine is doing.
8:56
Speaker 2: So she sounds like an incredible mother.
8:59
Speaker 1: She is, yeah, like she has lived a huge life
9:01
Speaker 1: up to the age of twenty six. And then of
9:03
Speaker 1: course she's going to become very famous for entirely different reasons,
9:07
Speaker 1: not because she became a successful actress, but because she
9:10
Speaker 1: would vanish without a trace and become the center of
9:12
Speaker 1: an unsolved mystery. But it sounds like she was doing well,
9:16
Speaker 1: Like she obviously regretted her relationship with Dexter, but she
9:19
Speaker 1: genuinely loves her daughter and says, well, even though the
9:22
Speaker 1: relationship turned up badly, at least I have this little girl,
9:25
Speaker 1: and I have a very supportive family in order to
9:27
Speaker 1: still pursue my dream. If you go on YouTube and
9:30
Speaker 1: you look up a Three Stooges short called Mummies Dummies,
9:34
Speaker 1: you could actually see Gene in the background of a
9:36
Speaker 1: scene where she's playing a harem girl. Most of the
9:38
Speaker 1: productions that she started you couldn't really see her in
9:41
Speaker 1: the background, but that's one where you can actually see
9:44
Speaker 1: her on camera, And it's kind of creepy to watch
9:46
Speaker 1: this lighthearted's Three Stooges short and then realize that this
9:49
Speaker 1: woman in the background is going to become a missing
9:51
Speaker 1: person several months later.
9:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is really eerie. It's sort of reminiscent of
9:58
Speaker 2: what is the case that is attached to the movie
10:02
Speaker 2: Jaws and their speculation that it could be the one
10:05
Speaker 2: of the missing Jane does or I know you knew all.
10:08
Speaker 3: The details to this.
10:10
Speaker 1: Yeah, we actually covered this together on an episode. It
10:13
Speaker 1: was the Lady of the Dunes case. She was an
10:15
Speaker 1: unidentified woman found in that section of Massachusetts during the
10:19
Speaker 1: summer of nineteen seventy four. And I know that Stephen
10:23
Speaker 1: King's son Joe Hill Like was watching an anniversary screening
10:26
Speaker 1: and saw this extra in the background and thought this
10:29
Speaker 1: might be the Lady the Dunes. It kind of looked
10:31
Speaker 1: like her composite sketch. But in recent years she was
10:34
Speaker 1: identified as a woman named Ruth Marie Terry, and we
10:37
Speaker 1: know that she did not appear in Jaws, so it
10:39
Speaker 1: turned out to be a false lead. So over twenty
10:43
Speaker 1: four hours passed and Jeane did not return which caused
10:46
Speaker 1: Sophie to become concerned, so she decided to contact the
10:49
Speaker 1: Los Angeles Police Department to report her missing, and surprise, surprise,
10:53
Speaker 1: the police did not appear overly concerned at first. They
10:55
Speaker 1: said that maybe Gene just disappeared for a quote unquote
10:58
Speaker 1: fling and would come back on her own, But Sophie
11:02
Speaker 1: was saying, even if Jeane was busy, she would always
11:04
Speaker 1: call on the phone to check on Christine, and she
11:07
Speaker 1: hadn't done that for twenty four hours, so they thought
11:09
Speaker 1: that was a big sign. And then the following morning,
11:12
Speaker 1: October the ninth, the case would go in a different
11:14
Speaker 1: direction because they would discover Jean's purse at the entrance
11:18
Speaker 1: to the Ferndal Trail at Griffith Park, which was located
11:21
Speaker 1: about five miles away from Jean's apartment, so her identification
11:25
Speaker 1: and her personal effects were still inside, so it did
11:27
Speaker 1: not appear that a robbery took place, but one of
11:30
Speaker 1: the straps was torn loose, suggesting that someone had ripped
11:33
Speaker 1: it away by force. But the strangest clue was a
11:36
Speaker 1: handwritten note that was inside which read quote, Kirk can't
11:39
Speaker 1: wait any longer going to see doctor Scott. It will
11:43
Speaker 1: work best this way while mother is away end quote.
11:46
Speaker 1: And when Jean's mother, Florence, returned from Kentucky, she said
11:49
Speaker 1: that this note was definitely in Jean's handwriting, and a
11:52
Speaker 1: handwriting analysis pretty much reached the same conclusion after comparing
11:56
Speaker 1: it to some other samples of Jeane's handwriting.
11:59
Speaker 2: There is a few things that one could assume or
12:02
Speaker 2: extrapolate from what is written in that note. What isn't
12:06
Speaker 2: written in that note? My mind first goes to who
12:10
Speaker 2: could this Kirk person be? Firstly, could it be a
12:13
Speaker 2: love interest? Could it be somebody that she's in a
12:16
Speaker 2: relationship with? And what could it be that she can't
12:20
Speaker 2: wait any longer on? That would be best done will
12:24
Speaker 2: mother is away? My mind first goes to termination of
12:28
Speaker 2: a potential pregnancy.
12:30
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, definitely that is going to be a theory
12:32
Speaker 1: that's pushed forward. And another amusing detail is the mention
12:36
Speaker 1: of Kirk and doctor Scott. And as we're going to
12:39
Speaker 1: talk about, there would be rumors that Gene once had
12:41
Speaker 1: an affair with someone named Scotty. So a lot of
12:44
Speaker 1: people see this note to make Star Trek comparisons, even
12:46
Speaker 1: though this was twenty years before Star Trek became a thing.
12:50
Speaker 1: Oh that's funny, Yeah, weird coincidence. They figured that the
12:54
Speaker 1: perse had only been dropped there on the morning of
12:56
Speaker 1: October the ninth, because this was an entrance that a
12:59
Speaker 1: lot of people passed through, a lot of hikers went through,
13:02
Speaker 1: so they figured that if it had been there on
13:04
Speaker 1: the seventh and the eighth, someone would have found it
13:06
Speaker 1: much earlier. So it was probably deposited there a short
13:09
Speaker 1: time before it was found, and they figured it was
13:12
Speaker 1: probably thrown from a moving car just the way that
13:14
Speaker 1: it landed. And if you look at some sources about
13:18
Speaker 1: this case, they speculate that when you look at a
13:20
Speaker 1: photo of the note, because photos of it are available online,
13:23
Speaker 1: that the line it will work best this way while
13:26
Speaker 1: mother is away. They think that it ends in a comma,
13:28
Speaker 1: which made some people speculate that maybe she got interrupted
13:32
Speaker 1: in the middle of writing this note and didn't get
13:34
Speaker 1: a chance to finish it, because she didn't sign her
13:36
Speaker 1: name at the end. When I look at photos, I
13:39
Speaker 1: personally feel that it's a period. I don't think it's
13:42
Speaker 1: a comma, so I don't really go to the theory
13:45
Speaker 1: that she was interrupted in the middle of writing it.
13:47
Speaker 1: But that line it will work best this way while
13:49
Speaker 1: mother is away. Of course, is fueled speculation that maybe
13:52
Speaker 1: she was planning an abortion or something because her mother
13:55
Speaker 1: was in Kentucky, and maybe she decided to use this
13:58
Speaker 1: opportunity to get rid of the child because she knew
14:01
Speaker 1: that her mother would never find out.
14:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes sense. And she's already having to juggle
14:07
Speaker 2: so many things, being a mother to Christine, trying to
14:11
Speaker 2: actualize her dreams of being this movie star on the
14:16
Speaker 2: silver screen, and that takes a lot of her time.
14:20
Speaker 2: Being pregnant probably wasn't part of the plan, especially if
14:25
Speaker 2: this guy is married or doesn't want to commit, or
14:29
Speaker 2: she just isn't interested in pursuing a relationship long term.
14:34
Speaker 2: It's one thing to be married and divorced and have
14:37
Speaker 2: a child from your first husband, but it's a whole
14:40
Speaker 2: other thing in the nineteen forties to then add another
14:43
Speaker 2: child to the mix that you had out of wedlock.
14:46
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, And it makes me think like, as we're
14:48
Speaker 1: going to talk about, no one from Jean's family knew
14:51
Speaker 1: of anyone named Kirk in her life. So if she
14:53
Speaker 1: was having a relationship with this man and may have
14:55
Speaker 1: just been an affair, and she didn't have any long
14:58
Speaker 1: term plans, and that's why she didn't want this person's child.
15:02
Speaker 1: And it would soon turn out that Gene had been
15:04
Speaker 1: completely lying about what she was doing on the night
15:07
Speaker 1: she disappeared. They contacted her ex husband Dexter about because
15:11
Speaker 1: she had said that they had a meeting to discuss
15:13
Speaker 1: overdue child support payments, but Dexter denied seeing Gene that
15:17
Speaker 1: night and said that no meeting had ever been scheduled,
15:20
Speaker 1: and Dexter's story was backed up by his current wife, Lynn,
15:23
Speaker 1: who said that she was home with him the entire
15:25
Speaker 1: evening and that Gene never showed up. And the disappearance
15:29
Speaker 1: became even stranger when investigators checked all the studios in
15:33
Speaker 1: the screen Exters Guild, because Gene had said that after
15:35
Speaker 1: she saw Dexter, she was planning to do a film
15:38
Speaker 1: shoot and that she would be gone probably as long
15:41
Speaker 1: as eight hours, but they found out that there were
15:43
Speaker 1: no shoots scheduled at all on the evening of October
15:46
Speaker 1: the seventh, So that's pretty much two false stories that
15:49
Speaker 1: she provided Sophie, which led to speculation that she was
15:53
Speaker 1: doing something that she did not want her family to
15:55
Speaker 1: know about.
15:56
Speaker 2: Normally, when you would have a spouse back up your alibi.
16:01
Speaker 2: In Dexter's case, I would think, oh, there could be
16:04
Speaker 2: something untoward because this person has a vested interest in
16:08
Speaker 2: lying because they want to keep their spouse out of jail.
16:11
Speaker 2: But given the other details that we know, the Gene
16:14
Speaker 2: lied about or misrepresented what she was doing that day
16:19
Speaker 2: with regards to doing a shoot, that would have been
16:23
Speaker 2: like the quote unquote full eight hours, which is what
16:26
Speaker 2: she said to Sophie, and then she's never heard from again.
16:29
Speaker 2: One detail I find interesting is if this kirkperson is
16:33
Speaker 2: somehow responsible or I'm I guess there's many different scenarios.
16:37
Speaker 2: If she had an abortion and something went wrong and
16:41
Speaker 2: then they disposed of her body, or this Kirk person
16:44
Speaker 2: could have done something to her if he felt that
16:47
Speaker 2: maybe she changed her mind and decided that she wanted
16:49
Speaker 2: to go full term with the pregnancy. We can't know
16:53
Speaker 2: with the details that we have so far. But one
16:56
Speaker 2: thing I do find interesting is wouldn't you want to
17:00
Speaker 2: orch all evidence that could connect you to Gene? And
17:03
Speaker 2: in Gene's purse, it would be pretty easy to have
17:05
Speaker 2: looked to see if there was anything with your name
17:08
Speaker 2: on it or anything that reflected that you had a relationship.
17:12
Speaker 2: But the fact that her purse is dumped somebody went
17:14
Speaker 2: out of their way. I guess they didn't go out
17:17
Speaker 2: of their way if they tossed it out of a
17:18
Speaker 2: moving car, But they could have very easily looked inside
17:21
Speaker 2: to see what was in there, and you would have
17:23
Speaker 2: seen this note. You'd think that you would dispose of
17:25
Speaker 2: that before disposing of the purse.
17:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is definitely one of the most baffling elements
17:30
Speaker 1: of this entire case, because there has been speculation that
17:33
Speaker 1: Kirk or perhaps doctor Scott were complicit in Gene's disappearance
17:37
Speaker 1: and wanted to cover the whole thing up and maybe
17:39
Speaker 1: threw her purse out because they wanted to make it
17:41
Speaker 1: look like she was abducted or it had been the
17:43
Speaker 1: victim of an assault or a robbery. But you would,
17:46
Speaker 1: like you said, you would think they would look inside
17:48
Speaker 1: the purse, and if this person had a secret they
17:50
Speaker 1: wanted to hide and they wanted to cut off all
17:52
Speaker 1: contact with Gene, they would get rid of the note.
17:54
Speaker 1: They would completely torch it and ensure it's never been found.
17:57
Speaker 1: Because if a perse had been found without the note,
18:00
Speaker 1: no one would have even known about a potential connection
18:02
Speaker 1: with Kirk or doctor Scott. So that's just what's so
18:05
Speaker 1: weird about this whole situation is that it looks like
18:08
Speaker 1: the scene was stage, but it's also seems like whoever
18:11
Speaker 1: dumped the purse wanted the note to be found, So
18:14
Speaker 1: how does that work?
18:15
Speaker 2: But I also think that for us, it's really difficult
18:19
Speaker 2: to divorce ourselves from the ideas of having some kind
18:23
Speaker 2: of forensic knowledge, right, or forensic countermeasures that we would
18:28
Speaker 2: expect that any criminal would employ some kind of friends
18:32
Speaker 2: of countermeasure or know what to look for, But the
18:35
Speaker 2: very basics of these things weren't really known. I mean
18:38
Speaker 2: unless they were buying detective magazines, which were like a
18:42
Speaker 2: big deal at the time. Right. I can't really see
18:46
Speaker 2: any other source where you would find information on like
18:49
Speaker 2: what you would do or how you would behave after
18:53
Speaker 2: you've committed a crime. So maybe, like we're just taking
18:56
Speaker 2: for granted that we have so much information about so
18:59
Speaker 2: many cases where people have done the wrong things that
19:02
Speaker 2: you learn what the right things are to do. If
19:06
Speaker 2: you were in that scenario and you would want to
19:09
Speaker 2: make sure that you destroy any or all connections to
19:12
Speaker 2: you and that person, and the fact that that wasn't
19:14
Speaker 2: done seems so odd to us. But is that just
19:17
Speaker 2: because of our perspective in twenty twenty six?
19:20
Speaker 1: That is true because we're true crime followers. We've looked
19:23
Speaker 1: at so many of these cases, and if Jane was
19:25
Speaker 1: killed by someone who may not have been planning to
19:27
Speaker 1: kill her, they might have been in a panic and
19:29
Speaker 1: under a lot of stress and just didn't go through
19:31
Speaker 1: the basic step of checking inside or purse for a
19:34
Speaker 1: note and then just tossed it without even thinking about it. So, yeah,
19:38
Speaker 1: you've seen so many cases in which criminals do incredibly
19:41
Speaker 1: stupid things and you wonder, how could they have done that?
19:43
Speaker 1: But it's either because they were just not that bright
19:46
Speaker 1: to begin with, or they were under a lot of
19:47
Speaker 1: stress and we're not thinking clearly. So of course, once
19:51
Speaker 1: Jeane's disappearance made the news, there would be numerous reported sightings.
19:54
Speaker 1: Hover On the night she went missing, there was an
19:57
Speaker 1: employee at the Farmer's Market, located only a few locks
20:00
Speaker 1: from Jean's apartment, who claimed that they remembered seeing Jane
20:03
Speaker 1: in there at around six pm, which is an hour
20:06
Speaker 1: after she left, where she browsed around for a long
20:09
Speaker 1: period of time and appeared to be waiting for someone,
20:12
Speaker 1: and Jean was a regular customer at this market and
20:14
Speaker 1: the employee had seen her there before, so that's why
20:17
Speaker 1: they were certain that it was Jean. And we also
20:20
Speaker 1: know that she phoned the apartment to speak to Sophie
20:23
Speaker 1: and Christine about an hour later, so even if this
20:25
Speaker 1: sighting was legitimate, she was still alive for at least
20:28
Speaker 1: an hour afterwards. But the more interesting sightings took place
20:32
Speaker 1: at around two am on the morning of October the eighth,
20:35
Speaker 1: several hours later, where she was seen with an unidentified
20:39
Speaker 1: man who appeared to be in his thirties in an
20:42
Speaker 1: establishment called the Cheesebox Restaurant on the Sunset Strip. And
20:46
Speaker 1: what's hilarious is that the eyewitness was a local radio
20:48
Speaker 1: personality nicknamed Al the Sheikh Lazar, who did live broadcast
20:52
Speaker 1: of his show inside this restaurant. But curiously, there were
20:55
Speaker 1: two witnesses, like one of them said that they saw
20:58
Speaker 1: Jene with only one man, whereas Al the Sheikh Lazaar
21:01
Speaker 1: said that he saw Gene at the table with two men.
21:04
Speaker 1: And I think this goes how unreliable eyewitness sightings can be.
21:07
Speaker 1: That you have two people in the same location and
21:09
Speaker 1: they can't have a consistent story about whether or not
21:12
Speaker 1: one or two men were with Gene. But according to
21:15
Speaker 1: the Sheik, he approached the table with a microphone to
21:18
Speaker 1: interview them, but one of the men signaled that they
21:20
Speaker 1: wanted him to go away.
21:22
Speaker 2: I think that it could come down to both eyewitnesses
21:25
Speaker 2: could be correct. There might have been only one man
21:28
Speaker 2: at the table when the other eyewitness saw Gene with
21:32
Speaker 2: the man. Maybe the other man was in the bathroom,
21:34
Speaker 2: and so that's why they believed that there was only
21:37
Speaker 2: one man at the table. And then when the Sheik
21:39
Speaker 2: went over there to approach the table, there was both
21:42
Speaker 2: men there. So they may have both been correct. Or
21:45
Speaker 2: it could just be that we are awful at remembering
21:48
Speaker 2: details of what we've seen and what we've witnessed, and
21:52
Speaker 2: it's been replicated over and over and over again in
21:55
Speaker 2: eyewitness studies, where people miss the most crucial details, and
22:00
Speaker 2: we think that our memories are infallible, but we are
22:03
Speaker 2: incredibly fallible, and very infrequently do we come up with
22:08
Speaker 2: the perfect details of what actually happened. It's better when
22:12
Speaker 2: you have like can I witnesses. You put all of
22:14
Speaker 2: the details together and then you can see the commonalities.
22:18
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Like, I've seen other cases where a crime
22:21
Speaker 1: took place in a location where there was something like
22:23
Speaker 1: between five and ten witnesses, and you look at their
22:25
Speaker 1: accounts and they provide completely different details each time because
22:29
Speaker 1: they just have different memories. And of course, from the
22:33
Speaker 1: point of view of these witnesses, this is an unremarkable
22:35
Speaker 1: event because Gene has not been reported missing yet and
22:38
Speaker 1: they only, after seeing your photo in the newspaper a
22:41
Speaker 1: couple days later, come forward and say, oh, I thought
22:43
Speaker 1: I saw but they may have just seen another completely
22:47
Speaker 1: different woman who looked like her. And I know that
22:49
Speaker 1: the employee at the supermarket personally knew Gene, but for
22:54
Speaker 1: all we know, maybe they remembering a completely different night
22:56
Speaker 1: that they saw Gene there on a previous occasion. So
22:59
Speaker 1: your memories are always going to be fallible. And we
23:02
Speaker 1: had one more eyewitness sighting which took place in the
23:04
Speaker 1: early morning hours of October the eighth, where a gas
23:07
Speaker 1: station attendant reported that a man driving a blue gray
23:10
Speaker 1: convertible pulled in and asked him to fill up the
23:13
Speaker 1: tank because he was going to Fresno. The attendant was
23:16
Speaker 1: certain that he saw Jean slump down in the front seat,
23:19
Speaker 1: but as the convertible was pulling away, she turned and
23:22
Speaker 1: yelled out, have the police follow this car, And the
23:25
Speaker 1: attendant did immediately call the police, but they were unable
23:28
Speaker 1: to track down the convertible and it was only a
23:30
Speaker 1: couple days later when he saw Gene Spangler's photo that
23:34
Speaker 1: he became convinced that this was the woman he saw
23:36
Speaker 1: in the car. And of course this could also be
23:38
Speaker 1: a faulty eyewitness sighting, but he did report it immediately.
23:41
Speaker 1: So if it wasn't Jean, who was this woman and
23:44
Speaker 1: what was going on with her?
23:46
Speaker 4: Yeah?
23:46
Speaker 2: Okay, so it's dark outside and it would be really
23:49
Speaker 2: difficult to positively identify a woman. But what does Land
23:54
Speaker 2: cretens or credibility to the story is the fact that
23:57
Speaker 2: he did call the police. Like you said, said, if
24:00
Speaker 2: it wasn't Gene, then who was it? I mean, it
24:03
Speaker 2: could have been somebody who maybe was taken out somewhere
24:07
Speaker 2: and something was done to them and then they were
24:09
Speaker 2: returned home alive, and they didn't report it to police.
24:12
Speaker 2: Because reporting something like a sexual assault in the nineteen
24:16
Speaker 2: forties to a police department like the LAPD, I can
24:20
Speaker 2: only imagine what you would face. So I would assume
24:24
Speaker 2: that a lot of situations like that could go unreported.
24:28
Speaker 2: So maybe it's a coincidence, maybe it was Gene. I
24:31
Speaker 2: really wish that we knew more about doctor Scotty and Kirk,
24:36
Speaker 2: because if we did, then potentially we could tie this convertible,
24:40
Speaker 2: this blue gray convertible, to one of them.
24:43
Speaker 1: Well, now that we're on the subject, like I mentioned,
24:46
Speaker 1: I know that Jean's family and friends said they didn't
24:48
Speaker 1: know anyone in her life named Kirk or doctor scott
24:51
Speaker 1: but her mother, Florence, said that there were two separate
24:53
Speaker 1: incidents where Jane told her that someone named Kirk was
24:57
Speaker 1: going to pick her up at their apartment, and I'm
24:59
Speaker 1: both a ca Florence said that Kirk remained in the
25:02
Speaker 1: car when he showed up, and he never went to
25:04
Speaker 1: the front door, so Florence never actually saw who this was.
25:07
Speaker 1: But I don't think she remembered any details about the car,
25:11
Speaker 1: so I don't know if he might have shown up
25:12
Speaker 1: there any blue gray convertible. But either way, the fact
25:16
Speaker 1: that she didn't take the time to meet Jean's family
25:19
Speaker 1: could be a sign that maybe this person was carrying
25:21
Speaker 1: on an extramarital affair, that he didn't want people to
25:24
Speaker 1: find out about And as we're going to talk about,
25:26
Speaker 1: there's a very famous Kirk who will be tied into
25:29
Speaker 1: this story and probably knew that if I go and
25:32
Speaker 1: meet Jean's mother, she's instantly going to recognize me, and
25:34
Speaker 1: I don't want anyone to see me.
25:37
Speaker 3: Not Kirk Douglas.
25:38
Speaker 1: Yes, that's who it is.
25:39
Speaker 2: Okay, Well that would check out in the sense that
25:44
Speaker 2: if you got this older, more established man who is
25:48
Speaker 2: carrying on an extramarital affair, they might not want to
25:52
Speaker 2: meet the family for multiple reasons. One, they don't want
25:55
Speaker 2: to be identified, and they've likely told the person that
25:57
Speaker 2: they're having the affair with. In this case, Gene, don't
26:01
Speaker 2: tell your family who I am and that you know
26:04
Speaker 2: I'm famous because I'm married. This could be a problem
26:06
Speaker 2: for us. Who knows what they're saying. Maybe they're saying
26:10
Speaker 2: later down the line, when I leave my wife, then
26:12
Speaker 2: you can say you know who I am. But as
26:15
Speaker 2: it is right now, keep it a secret. And I
26:17
Speaker 2: feel like if it was a convertible, maybe she didn't
26:20
Speaker 2: peek out the window, but I would if I was
26:23
Speaker 2: Florence be peeking out that window trying to get a
26:26
Speaker 2: good look and see to see who was picking up
26:28
Speaker 2: my daughter, because she was obviously being evasive when giving details.
26:34
Speaker 1: I'm asking if it was a convertible, it probably had
26:36
Speaker 1: the top up on that particular night, because otherwise it
26:39
Speaker 1: would be easier to see his face. But to confirm,
26:42
Speaker 1: g never actually said this was a boyfriend or it
26:44
Speaker 1: was a date. She just says, I'm being picked up
26:46
Speaker 1: by someone named Kirk. So for all we know, maybe
26:49
Speaker 1: it was just a friend or a casual acquaintance. But
26:51
Speaker 1: once again, no one of her friends and families knew
26:53
Speaker 1: of her having an association with anyone named Kirk.
26:57
Speaker 2: But if you just have a friend and their name
26:59
Speaker 2: is Kirk, you would think that, like you would share
27:02
Speaker 2: details of this friendship. Right when somebody is completely evasive
27:06
Speaker 2: or they're being cagey about details like that, and it's
27:09
Speaker 2: a completely platonic relationship, you would think that you would
27:12
Speaker 2: tell your mother about like, oh, yeah, I met this guy,
27:17
Speaker 2: we met on set. We just really connected. It's purely platonic.
27:20
Speaker 2: There's like no love connection there, but we don't see that.
27:24
Speaker 2: So maybe I'm reading too much into it, But my
27:27
Speaker 2: gut just tells me that when you're giving such minimal
27:30
Speaker 2: details and this person doesn't come to the door, it
27:33
Speaker 2: just screams extramarital.
27:35
Speaker 1: Affair, definitely. And Kirk Douglas was married at this point
27:39
Speaker 1: to his first wife, Diana Dell. He already had two sons,
27:42
Speaker 1: including Michael Douglas, who went on to become a very
27:45
Speaker 1: famous actor on his own. And Kirk and Diana got
27:48
Speaker 1: divorced a few years later because, surprise the Rise, it
27:50
Speaker 1: turned out he was a major womanizer and there was
27:52
Speaker 1: a lot of infidelity during the marriage. So I can
27:55
Speaker 1: definitely see him not wanting to introduce himself to Jean's
27:58
Speaker 1: family if this affair was secret, And this wasn't really
28:02
Speaker 1: a stretch because there was a connection between Kirk Douglas
28:05
Speaker 1: and Jean because a few months earlier, she had had
28:08
Speaker 1: a bit part as a hula dancer in a film
28:11
Speaker 1: called A Young Man with a Horn in which Douglas
28:14
Speaker 1: was the lead actor. And this is where it gets
28:17
Speaker 1: very strange, because Kirk Douglas wound up inserting himself into
28:20
Speaker 1: the investigation into Jane's disappearance before the police even made
28:24
Speaker 1: the connection. At in the night she went missing, he
28:27
Speaker 1: was supposedly vacationing in Palm Springs, which was about one
28:29
Speaker 1: hundred miles away. But after learning about Jane's disappearance in
28:32
Speaker 1: the newspaper and the report about the discovery of the
28:36
Speaker 1: note in her purse which mentioned someone named Kirk, Douglas
28:39
Speaker 1: took it upon himself to call the LAPD Deputy Chief
28:42
Speaker 1: and confirm that I do not know this woman. I
28:45
Speaker 1: am most definitely not the mysterious Kirk in the note,
28:47
Speaker 1: even though no one had asked him so. A short
28:50
Speaker 1: time later he came in to be formally interviewed by
28:53
Speaker 1: the Deputy Chief, but this time he claimed, oh, a
28:56
Speaker 1: friend of mine reminded me that Jane was a tall
28:59
Speaker 1: girl with a green dress who was a background extra
29:02
Speaker 1: on Young Man with the Horn. And now I recall
29:05
Speaker 1: that I briefly talked and kidded with her on the set,
29:07
Speaker 1: but I never actually learned her name, and I had
29:10
Speaker 1: no other actions with her outside the production. And he
29:13
Speaker 1: even went so far as to hold a formal press
29:15
Speaker 1: conference in order to deny any knowledge of Jeane's disappearance.
29:19
Speaker 1: But obviously, alarm bells are going off because he's taking
29:22
Speaker 1: a lot of steps to insert himself into the investigation
29:25
Speaker 1: before anyone has even asked do you happen to be
29:27
Speaker 1: the Kirk in the note?
29:29
Speaker 2: Oh, okay, there's a lot here. So Kirk is doing
29:35
Speaker 2: way too much. And I'm sure some of you remember
29:40
Speaker 2: Robin and I have done a statement analysis episode, and
29:42
Speaker 2: I've been trained in statement analysis, and I can't go
29:45
Speaker 2: through the whole statement that Robin's just said, but just
29:48
Speaker 2: in cherry picking little bits, there's a lot of deception
29:51
Speaker 2: going on here. He's volunteering information without being asked, which
29:55
Speaker 2: is a major major red flag. Even just the use
29:58
Speaker 2: of the word actually didn't know her name, that is
30:01
Speaker 2: a red flag for deception. I think that Kirk Doff
30:05
Speaker 2: protests too much. There's just a lot happening. It sounds
30:10
Speaker 2: like a guilty conscience, whether or not he had something
30:13
Speaker 2: to do with it, or he's guilty because of the
30:16
Speaker 2: affair and he thinks somehow somebody is going to connect
30:19
Speaker 2: him to it. I'm not saying he had anything to
30:21
Speaker 2: do with her disappearance, but the guilt may stem from
30:25
Speaker 2: a potential extramarital affair, all allegedly. But it's a little
30:31
Speaker 2: weird when you read about this and you're scurrying to
30:35
Speaker 2: give a statement and a statement publicly and it's like
30:39
Speaker 2: no one's even connected Kirk Douglas. You were connected, she
30:44
Speaker 2: had a bit part in one of the movies that
30:46
Speaker 2: you were on. Would anybody have made that connection before
30:49
Speaker 2: the Internet. I really doubt it.
30:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, because it's not like she's credited in there, Like
30:54
Speaker 1: you would have to do a lot of research looking
30:56
Speaker 1: into like a background extra records just to see if
30:59
Speaker 1: Gene were on that set, And a lot of the
31:01
Speaker 1: time the extras don't interact with the big stars, so
31:04
Speaker 1: there was no reason to believe that she personally knew
31:07
Speaker 1: Kirk Douglas. But if you've seen photos of Gene, she's
31:10
Speaker 1: a very good looking woman, and I could definitely see
31:12
Speaker 1: someone like Kirk being interested on her if they started
31:16
Speaker 1: flirting on the set and made a connection and started
31:18
Speaker 1: secretly going out together, even though he was married at
31:21
Speaker 1: the time. And there's also the fact that Kurt is
31:24
Speaker 1: a very unique name, because theoretically, if she had been
31:27
Speaker 1: a background extra on a John Wayne movie and the
31:30
Speaker 1: note said, dear John, you're not automatically gonna think John Wayne,
31:34
Speaker 1: but when you think Kirk, you're like, how many other
31:36
Speaker 1: big movie stars are around at the time named Kirk.
31:40
Speaker 2: That's clearly what Kirk was thinking when the note said,
31:43
Speaker 2: you know to Kirk, but it seems bizarre to me
31:46
Speaker 2: that he would go out of his way after supposedly
31:49
Speaker 2: vacationing in Palm Springs to like insert himself into this investigation.
31:54
Speaker 2: We see it time and time again and again. I'm
31:57
Speaker 2: not saying the guilty conscience means that he murdered Gene
32:00
Speaker 2: or he made her disappear, but I'm not saying that
32:03
Speaker 2: he didn't either. We just don't know those details or
32:06
Speaker 2: where this potential guilty conscience could stem from. But his
32:10
Speaker 2: behavior is indicative of somebody who's engaging in deception, that
32:14
Speaker 2: is for sure.
32:16
Speaker 1: And the big thing is that Kirk Douglas is an
32:18
Speaker 1: actor who is known for potentially having a lot of
32:21
Speaker 1: skeletons in his closet. Have you heard the rumor about
32:23
Speaker 1: him and Natalie Wood?
32:25
Speaker 2: Kirk Douglas. Was he the one who was married to
32:28
Speaker 2: Natalie Wood? That was John Boyight?
32:31
Speaker 1: It was actually Robert Wagner when she died.
32:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, okay, And so he's the one who may
32:36
Speaker 2: have allegedly murdered Natalie Wood.
32:39
Speaker 1: Yeah, because she died and what was ruled to be
32:41
Speaker 1: a drowning accident in nineteen eighty one, and to this
32:43
Speaker 1: day there's suspicions because Robert Wagner was on the boat,
32:46
Speaker 1: that he may have had something to do with it.
32:48
Speaker 3: Well, he was jealous of Christopher Walkin, yeah.
32:51
Speaker 1: Because he was on the boat that night too, But
32:52
Speaker 1: he has always denied any knowledge or involvement of what
32:55
Speaker 1: happened to her.
32:56
Speaker 2: I always get Christopher Walkin and John boyight mixed up.
32:58
Speaker 2: I knew somehow with somebody look similar to that was
33:01
Speaker 2: involved in this. Okay, So Howard Kirk Douglas and Natalie
33:05
Speaker 2: Wood connected.
33:07
Speaker 1: Well, this is a pretty horrible story. But Natalie Wood
33:10
Speaker 1: started out as a famous child actress during the forties
33:13
Speaker 1: and in the nineteen fifties she was just a teen
33:16
Speaker 1: And in two thousand and once, many years after Natalie
33:19
Speaker 1: Wood was dead, someone wrote a biography about her life
33:21
Speaker 1: and said that in the nineteen fifties, when she was
33:24
Speaker 1: only sixteen years old, her mother, who was a major
33:27
Speaker 1: stage mom, brought her to a hotel suite with a
33:29
Speaker 1: for an audition with a major Hollywood star. But Natalie
33:33
Speaker 1: wound up supposedly being raped so badly that she was
33:37
Speaker 1: seriously injured, and the story goes that her mother didn't
33:40
Speaker 1: want to derail Natalie's career and knew that if she
33:43
Speaker 1: spoke up and accused this actor of rape, her career
33:45
Speaker 1: would be done. And of course, when this book came
33:48
Speaker 1: out in two thousand and one, it didn't name who
33:50
Speaker 1: the alleged actor was, but shortly thereafter Natalie's younger sister
33:55
Speaker 1: Lana Wood, who was only eight years old at the
33:57
Speaker 1: time and went on to become a Hollywood actress herself. Yeah,
34:00
Speaker 1: it was someone pretty big, but I'm not going to
34:02
Speaker 1: say his name while he's still alive. And as the
34:05
Speaker 1: years went on, Kirk Douglas lived to the age of
34:08
Speaker 1: one hundred and threes, so people, by process of elimination,
34:12
Speaker 1: were starting to wonder, hmm, could it potentially be him,
34:14
Speaker 1: because she's still not saying anything and he's still alive.
34:18
Speaker 1: And then in twenty twelve or so, there was this
34:20
Speaker 1: Hollywood this blog about Hollywood gossip where someone left the
34:24
Speaker 1: very lengthy comments confirming that this story was true, saying
34:28
Speaker 1: that I worked with Natalie Wood's daughter, Natasha Gregson Wagner
34:32
Speaker 1: in a movie in the nineteen nineties, and she told
34:35
Speaker 1: me the story about her mother was raped and stayed
34:38
Speaker 1: silent about it because the assailant was a big Hollywood star,
34:42
Speaker 1: and this commentar flat out said that yes, it is
34:44
Speaker 1: Kirk Douglas. And was even crazier about this story is
34:47
Speaker 1: that there were rumors that this anonymous commentor was Robert
34:50
Speaker 1: Downey Junior because he had worked with Natasha Gregson Wagner
34:55
Speaker 1: on a film in the nineteen nineties called Two Girls
34:58
Speaker 1: and the Guy, and they did become good friends. So
35:01
Speaker 1: people started speculating that down you wanted to speak out
35:03
Speaker 1: about the whole thing and left this anonymous, anonymous comment
35:06
Speaker 1: but of course his publicist denied the whole thing. But
35:09
Speaker 1: to this day, the identity of this commenter is still
35:12
Speaker 1: a big mystery.
35:14
Speaker 2: Wow, iron Man comes in to save the day and
35:18
Speaker 2: really come in with the disclosure. It sounds like, even
35:22
Speaker 2: though it's alleged that there's some credence to this, obviously
35:27
Speaker 2: and if true, absolutely disgusting. Who would do this to
35:32
Speaker 2: a child and who would subject innocence to this so
35:37
Speaker 2: far as to like injure this child. It's I have
35:42
Speaker 2: no words for somebody that would do something like that.
35:46
Speaker 2: And so if we're to believe that that is true,
35:49
Speaker 2: and I'm more inclined to believe even though it's alleged. Personally,
35:52
Speaker 2: I'm more inclined to believe that it is based on
35:55
Speaker 2: all of the information that you shared. And then is
36:00
Speaker 2: it that big of a stretch to believe that somebody
36:03
Speaker 2: who could do something like that potentially to a child
36:06
Speaker 2: allegedly would then go on and impregnate somebody during an
36:11
Speaker 2: extramarital affair and then potentially murder them or have them
36:16
Speaker 2: murdered or make them disappear in some capacity. Like I
36:19
Speaker 2: believe if you can do that to a child, that
36:21
Speaker 2: you are literally capable of anything.
36:24
Speaker 1: Yeah. Like, that's why I had to bring this up,
36:26
Speaker 1: because I covered this on the Trail and Cold six
36:28
Speaker 1: years ago, and I thought, well, if I don't bring
36:30
Speaker 1: it up, a lot of people are going to mention
36:32
Speaker 1: it to me, because obviously, if he's capable of raping
36:35
Speaker 1: a child, he might have some skeletons in his closet
36:38
Speaker 1: about Gene Spangler. And this whole rumor has picked up
36:41
Speaker 1: a lot of momentum in recent years because I know
36:43
Speaker 1: that Kirk, when he was over one hundred years old,
36:46
Speaker 1: was honored at the twenty eighteen Golden Globes and there
36:49
Speaker 1: was a lot of people speaking out about it on
36:51
Speaker 1: social media, saying that we've just started the me too
36:54
Speaker 1: movement because that's when it was gaining a lot of traction.
36:56
Speaker 1: And here you are honoring a man who supposedly raped
36:59
Speaker 1: a sixteen year old back during the nineteen fifties. This
37:03
Speaker 1: is a really bad image. And of course, Kirk died
37:06
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty at the age of one hundred and three,
37:09
Speaker 1: and in the following year, Lana Wood, who has always
37:11
Speaker 1: been convinced that her sister was murdered, published a memoir
37:15
Speaker 1: about the investigation into Natalie Would's suspicious death, and she
37:18
Speaker 1: finally confirmed in print that yes, the actor who raped
37:22
Speaker 1: my sister all those years ago was Kirk Douglas, and
37:25
Speaker 1: our mother told us to keep silent about it in
37:28
Speaker 1: order to not destroy our own careers. And with the
37:31
Speaker 1: ass Michael Douglas for comments, he simply had his publicist
37:34
Speaker 1: sent out this quote, May they both rest in peace.
37:37
Speaker 1: So he never actually denied it or attempted to defend
37:40
Speaker 1: his father. So I have to wonder if this rumor
37:42
Speaker 1: does have a lot of clarity and a lot of legs.
37:45
Speaker 2: To it personally, if Lanna Wood is confirming it, and
37:49
Speaker 2: then we bought all the other information. I'm personally inclined
37:52
Speaker 2: to believe that it's true and to believe that this
37:54
Speaker 2: did happen to Natalie, which is so tragic because she
37:58
Speaker 2: had such a tragic life with a very overbearing mother
38:02
Speaker 2: and then being in a marriage with Robert Wagner that
38:05
Speaker 2: seemed very tumultuous. But if she had to endure this
38:09
Speaker 2: at the hands of Kirk Douglas, it is absolutely disgusting
38:13
Speaker 2: and I can't imagine the trauma and the impact that
38:16
Speaker 2: that had on her throughout her life. And it's not
38:19
Speaker 2: something that just goes away or that somebody gets over.
38:23
Speaker 2: A sexual assault like that, which basically her mother offering
38:26
Speaker 2: her up like that she can't consent. It's vile, it's predatory.
38:31
Speaker 2: And the fact that Michael Douglas just says may they
38:34
Speaker 2: both rest in peace. From a publicists standpoint, you're probably
38:39
Speaker 2: better to say the least amount possible, because if you
38:43
Speaker 2: defend your father, people are going to jump down your throat.
38:46
Speaker 2: If you say that you think that he did it,
38:49
Speaker 2: then people are going to jump down your throat. So
38:51
Speaker 2: saying the least in the most respectful way, which is
38:55
Speaker 2: what he did, is probably what he was advised to do.
38:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes sense to me, and who knows, Like
39:01
Speaker 1: he probably has complicated feelings, he probably loves his father,
39:04
Speaker 1: But at the same time, it's very difficult to finally
39:06
Speaker 1: have these horrible things he did come out into the open.
39:09
Speaker 1: And Michael Douglas is getting up there in years himself,
39:12
Speaker 1: he's in his early eighties, so it's just probably not
39:14
Speaker 1: something he wants to talk about at this stage in
39:17
Speaker 1: his life. But like I said, this incident isn't connected
39:20
Speaker 1: to Jean Spangler's disappearance directly, but the fact if he
39:23
Speaker 1: was capable of doing this could show that, even if
39:26
Speaker 1: he didn't personally cause Jeane's disappearance, that he could have
39:29
Speaker 1: had some dark secret, like having a child with her
39:32
Speaker 1: that he wanted to cover up. Because back in the
39:34
Speaker 1: nineteen forties and fifties it was a lot easier for
39:36
Speaker 1: big Hollywood stars to cover up all the terrible things
39:39
Speaker 1: they did.
39:40
Speaker 2: I think it's essential that you share this information because
39:44
Speaker 2: it goes to motive, right, like what type of motive
39:48
Speaker 2: would somebody have to cover something up like that, and
39:51
Speaker 2: what type of personality would it take to do something
39:55
Speaker 2: like that to Natalie Wood and then with that same
39:59
Speaker 2: person type make a woman disappear if they had an
40:02
Speaker 2: inconvenient pregnancy. Well, in my personal opinion, yes, but if
40:07
Speaker 2: you didn't share that information about Natalie Wood, there would
40:11
Speaker 2: still be more question marks for me. But I'm seeing
40:15
Speaker 2: that it is entirely possible for him to be the
40:18
Speaker 2: kirk mentioned based on his very strange reaction to the
40:23
Speaker 2: media putting out that there was a note about a
40:26
Speaker 2: Kirk and he just jumps in there and it just
40:29
Speaker 2: sounds so much like a guilty conscience.
40:31
Speaker 1: Oh definitely. And I can only imagine what would happen
40:34
Speaker 1: if the incident happened like this today, where an aspiring
40:37
Speaker 1: actress went missing and they found a note containing the
40:40
Speaker 1: same first name as a big Hollywood actor and they
40:42
Speaker 1: found out that they work together on a film, and
40:45
Speaker 1: the actor starts doing suspicious things. I think they might
40:48
Speaker 1: even get to the bottom of what happened, because you
40:50
Speaker 1: just know that places like TMZ would be all over
40:53
Speaker 1: this and trying to dig up whatever dirt they could.
40:56
Speaker 1: So that about brings an end to part one of
40:57
Speaker 1: our series about the disappearance of Gene Span So join
41:00
Speaker 1: us again next week for part two.
41:03
Speaker 3: Robin, do you want to tell us a little bit
41:05
Speaker 3: about the Trail Went Cold Patreon.
41:07
Speaker 1: Yes, the Trail Cold Patreon has been around for three
41:09
Speaker 1: years now, and we offer these standard bonus features like
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Speaker 1: early ad free episodes, and I also send out stickers
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41:19
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Speaker 1: tier tier two, we also offer monthly bonus episodes in
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41:29
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Speaker 1: ten dollars tier. One of the features we offer is
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41:46
Speaker 1: up the original Unsolved Mysteries episode on Amazon Prime or
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Speaker 1: the background, where I just provide trivia and factoids about
41:56
Speaker 1: the cases featured in this episode. And incidentally, the very
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Speaker 1: first episode that I did a commentary track over was
42:02
Speaker 1: the episode featuring this case. So if you want to
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42:29
Speaker 3: We'll link them in the show notes.
42:31
Speaker 1: So I want to thank you all for listening, and
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42:42
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42:45
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42:50
Speaker 3: Music by Paul Rich from the podcast Cold Callers Comedy