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Behind City Hall: Lessons in Leadership and Resilience with Dorothy McCabe · Behind the Business

• 0:01
  Ian McLean: Welcome to another episode of Behind the Business presented by Gore Mutual.
• 0:04
  Ian McLean: I'm your host, Ian McLean, President and CEO of the Greater Kitchener Waterdoo Chamber of Commerce.
• 0:09
  Ian McLean: This podcast is recorded on the traditional territory of the neutral Anishinabe and Hoden Ashone peoples.
• 0:15
  Ian McLean: Each week I sit down for candid conversations where we go beyond the boardroom and behind the business to uncover the real stories of Waterloo Region's business community.
• 0:25
  Ian McLean: Today on Behind the Business, we sit down with Dorothy McCabe, the Mayor of Waterloo.
• 0:39
  Ian McLean: Dorothy arrived in elected office after a long career in municipal leadership, advisory roles, and partnerships with local post-secondary institutions.
• 0:47
  Ian McLean: She's known for a hands-on, community-first approach, and for rolling up her sleeves to turn plans into real results.
• 0:54
  Ian McLean: In this conversation, we'll hear how she navigates tough calls, works with business and education partners, and keeps the day-to-day running smoothly for residents.
• 1:03
  Ian McLean: Expect practical leadership lessons and stories you won't read in a press release.
• 1:08
  Ian McLean: Join us as we go behind the business with Mayor Dorothy McCabe.
• 1:12
  Ian McLean: Well, we're excited to have you here today.
• 1:14
  Ian McLean: Dorothy, thanks so much for making time in your busy schedule.
• 1:18
  Dorothy McGabe: Absolutely.
• 1:18
  Dorothy McGabe: Happy to be here.
• 1:19
  Ian McLean: I know a busy time of year for everybody.
• 1:21
  Ian McLean: You've got lots on the go at the city and at the region.
• 1:24
  Ian McLean: So uh but I wanted to kind of dig into bit as we get started.
• 1:28
  Ian McLean: You've spent more than um two decades in municipal leadership, either um elected, uh, you know, at the staff level, you've been worked in higher education before being elected mayor.
• 1:40
  Ian McLean: What what uh drew you into public service and inspired you to move from sort of the staff or the advisory roles into elected office?
• 1:49
  Dorothy McGabe: Yeah, well, I mean, I'll go right back to my roots uh and say my parents.
• 1:53
  Dorothy McGabe: My parents were always, you know, obviously they're a big influence on my life, but they were very, very involved in in our local community, farming community where I grew up.
• 2:01
  Dorothy McGabe: But then, um, a little shout out to the chamber uh network.
• 2:05
  Dorothy McGabe: Um, years ago, I was working for a chamber in North York.
• 2:08
  Dorothy McGabe: Oh.
• 2:08
  Dorothy McGabe: Yeah, and um I knew that.
• 2:11
  Dorothy McGabe: Yeah, yeah.
• 2:11
  Dorothy McGabe: And I started meeting, part of my role was, you know, was to was policy development in that.
• 2:16
  Dorothy McGabe: And and uh and so I was meeting with a lot of the elected officials, provincial, federal, and municipal, and I started to think, oh, this is really interesting.
• 2:24
  Dorothy McGabe: I like this.
• 2:25
  Dorothy McGabe: Um and then, you know, and then I moved back to the region and to Waterloo, and uh, you know, and I continued to follow along with it, and I got a j I volunteered on a campaign and started working with John Malloy, and you know, just paying attention to municipal and federal and provincial politics, and I started to think, provincial particularly, um, I wasn't really happy with some of the decisions being made at the municipal level by some of the, you know, some previously elected people.
• 2:53
  Dorothy McGabe: And I thought, you know what?
• 2:54
  Dorothy McGabe: I want to go from being an advisor to a decider.
• 2:57
  Dorothy McGabe: And so I threw my hat in the ring three years ago.
• 3:00
  Ian McLean: And you never know, sometimes the dog catches the bus, right?
• 3:02
  Ian McLean: And you're like, oh yeah, and it's it's it's it's a whole different thing.
• 3:05
  Ian McLean: I mean, you know, I I was elected for a period of time, and and getting uh making that decision is not it, it's uh it's not easy and and it's tough work once you get there.
• 3:16
  Dorothy McGabe: Well, and I was originally interested at the regional level.
• 3:19
  Dorothy McGabe: It's nothing again, like it wasn't a city of Waterloo thing.
• 3:22
  Dorothy McGabe: It was a couple of people at the region that I just thought I would make different decisions than what they're making.
• 3:28
  Dorothy McGabe: And so my folk, my campaign originally was focused on the region because Dave Jaworski said he was gonna do three terms, and then all of a sudden he wasn't.
• 3:35
  Dorothy McGabe: And then my campaign team were just like do both.
• 3:38
  Ian McLean: You can be mayor and the regional counselor.
• 3:41
  Dorothy McGabe: So here I am.
• 3:42
  Ian McLean: So you've worked on uh you know, along with in the community on a number of major regional initiatives.
• 3:49
  Ian McLean: Um and I know we were on the same group that was early on with all day two way go.
• 3:56
  Ian McLean: Um you know, some of the planning and the and the big things happening with the with post-secondary institutions.
• 4:02
  Ian McLean: Um if you look back, what's the one project that challenged you the most in terms of getting something done?
• 4:10
  Ian McLean: Because there because there are none of none of these things are happening easily.
• 4:13
  Dorothy McGabe: No.
• 4:13
  Ian McLean: And what keeps you motivated to pursuing those things when it can, I mean, you can get tired of having the same conversation over and over again before things get done.
• 4:23
  Ian McLean: Because I think I think what people It's like having kids, again.
• 4:25
  Ian McLean: Well, it certainly is.
• 4:27
  Ian McLean: But I think what most people may not understand is not government is not designed for fast decision making.
• 4:34
  Ian McLean: It it's meant to build consensus, and and that can be frustrating when you're either watching it or when you're in the middle of it.
• 4:42
  Dorothy McGabe: We know this is where we need to go, what's taking so long.
• 4:44
  Dorothy McGabe: But it is, you know, it's public money, it's public, it's public land often.
• 4:48
  Dorothy McGabe: It's you know, so you have to be really careful and mindful of that.
• 4:52
  Dorothy McGabe: But you know, it's it's gonna, it's my sort of penultimate project, I think, and the most challenging one is the is the GoTrain project, right?
• 4:59
  Dorothy McGabe: Because that was, I'm still excited about it.
• 5:01
  Dorothy McGabe: Like I know people are probably saying, how come it's not here yet?
• 5:04
  Dorothy McGabe: But it's a huge, massive like infrastructure project.
• 5:07
  Dorothy McGabe: And you know, in 2014, when uh the former premier win said they're gonna they're gonna do it, like they said it'd take 10 years, you know, then there's COVID in there and you know, on and on, right?
• 5:19
  Dorothy McGabe: But but we're getting close, we're getting closer every day, you know.
• 5:22
  Dorothy McGabe: And Mr.
• 5:23
  Dorothy McGabe: Sarkaria was great to have him here a couple of months ago.
• 5:26
  Dorothy McGabe: But uh, but you know, I what I really loved about and about that project at the time was that it was really collaborative.
• 5:32
  Dorothy McGabe: It was working with the chambers and the environmental groups and commuters and the post-secondary institutions and big businesses like Manu Life and TD, et cetera.
• 5:42
  Dorothy McGabe: And we all came around.
• 5:43
  Dorothy McGabe: And you when you can get people to a place where you say, yeah, we see this vision and we see the need, and we're all like it's a common, it's a common issue, right?
• 5:52
  Dorothy McGabe: Like that's you know, that's exciting, right?
• 5:54
  Ian McLean: When we started this, I would say it wasn't necessarily the community consensus that emerged over time.
• 5:59
  Ian McLean: Well, it wasn't.
• 6:00
  Ian McLean: I mean, there was a time when there would be you'd be hard-pressed to find the business community saying transit was a top priority.
• 6:07
  Ian McLean: But it it it did become where everyone understood.
• 6:09
  Ian McLean: The more we talked about it.
• 6:10
  Ian McLean: Moving of goods, moving of people.
• 6:12
  Ian McLean: Moving people mad.
• 6:13
  Ian McLean: We needed to have this, otherwise we would we would not be able to throw up.
• 6:17
  Dorothy McGabe: We're clogging up the 401 with, you know, with in the freight that that can't move very freely.
• 6:22
  Dorothy McGabe: And the and the cost of the delay of moving people around when you're trying to get business executives in, you know, to our community, and it's like I'm not gonna let my CAO sit on the 401 maybe for four hours, right?
• 6:35
  Ian McLean: And I do think, you know, uh while we'd like to have that, you know, the end goal of having peak service, you know, 60-minute service, that will come.
• 6:44
  Ian McLean: And it, but it it we've made big improvements and there's lots, lots more to come.
• 6:48
  Dorothy McGabe: Oh, yeah, absolutely.
• 6:49
  Ian McLean: Listen, you know, I think one of the things you you kind of your observations is that your style is hands-on and community first, that you're and you know, God bless.
• 6:58
  Ian McLean: I don't know how you do these things, but uh, you're at I'm at a lot of events, but not anywhere close to what elected officials like yourself are.
• 7:05
  Ian McLean: So um how do you balance and approach leading um, you know, ultimately council's strategic to a large extent of saying what's the direction, and then the staff kind of make that happen, but you're you're balancing the strategic with the the long-term work that the city needs, and some of that's very practical in nature.
• 7:25
  Ian McLean: How do you balance those things?
• 7:26
  Dorothy McGabe: Well, about I mean, about going to events and things, those are really good.
• 7:29
  Dorothy McGabe: I mean, they're fun and it's great to connect with people, but they're I've always found them really good um learning opportunities because people will just have a pull aside and say, like, hey, I like this or I don't like that, or what are you thinking about this?
• 7:41
  Dorothy McGabe: You know, so you have those conversations with people, or they just share what's how potential policy issues are landing.
• 7:48
  Dorothy McGabe: Um, so that's a good way to just help, you know, focus on the here and now.
• 7:53
  Dorothy McGabe: But it but you're right, the the balance is thinking about the needs of right now and and then also 10, 20, 30 years out.
• 8:02
  Dorothy McGabe: Um, but you know, we have a strategic plan that we do a lot of engagement, and and we we we did we started it three years ago, but we've done continual check-ins, I call them community conversations with um around the the strategic pillars.
• 8:16
  Dorothy McGabe: And so it's not a one and done, it's a living document.
• 8:19
  Dorothy McGabe: So so that helps like having continual conversations about our strategic plan and our priorities, that really just helps, you know, keep us focused on on the future.
• 8:29
  Dorothy McGabe: But you know, I read a lot.
• 8:31
  Dorothy McGabe: I mean, when lucky in Waterloo, in Waterloo Region, like I go to CG lectures and and they share some of their information, right?
• 8:38
  Dorothy McGabe: Like these are, you know, and I'm on AMO, and of course we have UW and Laurier, and there's always like academic reports you can read about things that are coming and and down the pipe, right?
• 8:49
  Dorothy McGabe: So I take advantage of those and you know try and stay plugged in that way.
• 8:54
  Dorothy McGabe: But it because it then it forces you to think about, you know, lift your head from like the here and now and think, yeah, what is coming down the pipe?
• 9:01
  Ian McLean: That that's not that's not easy to do because you because the crisis of the day always gets you thinking about today.
• 9:06
  Dorothy McGabe: Yeah.
• 9:06
  Ian McLean: And and yeah, I think you're right.
• 9:07
  Ian McLean: Uh going to those community events, it kind of that's it's it's almost like a uh an early warning grading system because people aren't shy about telling you when you've done probably better at telling you when you haven't done things right, but but you you do hear that.
• 9:21
  Ian McLean: Yeah.
• 9:22
  Ian McLean: Listen, as a woman uh in in a high profile and traditionally male-dominated space, which is elected office, I think that's still still true.
• 9:30
  Ian McLean: Probably less so in Waterloo region, less so in Waterloo region.
• 9:33
  Ian McLean: Yeah, much more of a a track record when you think back to Marjorie Carroll and some of the mayors in Cambridge, and now we have regional challenges.
• 9:40
  Dorothy McGabe: Anna Hughes was elected in Waterloo in 1957.
• 9:42
  Ian McLean: So it's it's less so, but it still is a male-dominated space.
• 9:47
  Dorothy McGabe: Especially the mayor position.
• 9:48
  Ian McLean: Yeah.
• 9:48
  Ian McLean: Um what are the have you faced some hurdles, or what would you say are the the the hurdles that you faced?
• 9:54
  Ian McLean: And and what advice would you give to others?
• 9:56
  Ian McLean: I mean, we're gonna come into election year, I guess it was the turn of the calendar.
• 9:59
  Ian McLean: There'll be an election in 2026 in October?
• 10:03
  Dorothy McGabe: Yeah, it'll be October 20, 2026.
• 10:05
  Dorothy McGabe: 2026.
• 10:06
  Ian McLean: So uh if you're giving some advice, you know, from your vantage point to other women stepping into leadership roles, not necessarily elected, but leadership roles, what would that be?
• 10:15
  Dorothy McGabe: Well, um, and you know, to go back to there are a lot of women elected in in Waterloo Region, and that's credit to uh Jane Mitchell and you know, Melissa Durrell and Karen Coviallo who keep that women's campaign school alive because they've done some really great things there.
• 10:30
  Dorothy McGabe: But you're right, it's still a very male-dominated.
• 10:32
  Dorothy McGabe: I mean, if you look at elected officials across Ontario, or if I look at the Ontario Big City Mayors, there's 29 of us of cities over a hundred thousand, and uh only six of us are women, right?
• 10:45
  Dorothy McGabe: So that's uh and the truth is um in you know, generally in municipal politics, it's it's difficult to unelect an incumbent, right?
• 10:54
  Dorothy McGabe: So I mean part of the part of it is some of the some of the men who are who have been sitting, you know, I'd say more than three terms, have to kind of take a look at themselves and say, you know, is is it time to move on, right?
• 11:08
  Dorothy McGabe: Like I remember Karen Coviallo said, you know, this isn't my seat, it's the community seat.
• 11:12
  Dorothy McGabe: And so, you know, there's that part of it as well.
• 11:15
  Dorothy McGabe: But yeah, I mean, I've I face, I've certainly face uh sometimes it's really overt and sometimes it's very subtle.
• 11:21
  Dorothy McGabe: Um, but it's it's definitely there.
• 11:23
  Dorothy McGabe: Just the, you know, sexism and things like that, and uh and some of the ways that you're talked to.
• 11:28
  Dorothy McGabe: But I would still say to women, do it, right?
• 11:31
  Dorothy McGabe: Like we need we need to get more voices in um people from diverse backgrounds, women or men, we need to get more diverse voices around the table.
• 11:39
  Dorothy McGabe: It changes the conversation, it changes sometimes the priorities, but it also changes how we think and and and come to decisions.
• 11:47
  Dorothy McGabe: Um, and I think that's really a good thing.
• 11:49
  Dorothy McGabe: So it's it is it is challenging, but do it.
• 11:53
  Ian McLean: As a father of two daughters, I and my mother was a feminist, and we we have much more example.
• 12:00
  Ian McLean: I encourage them to get involved because it does change.
• 12:02
  Ian McLean: The style does change.
• 12:05
  Ian McLean: It's uh and and uh and that's that's that's a good thing.
• 12:08
  Dorothy McGabe: Yeah, oh it is.
• 12:09
  Dorothy McGabe: And Waterloo's got uh eight elected positions at our city council.
• 12:14
  Dorothy McGabe: Six of us are women, and uh yeah, and it's it's a very collaborative.
• 12:18
  Dorothy McGabe: We don't agree all the time.
• 12:19
  Dorothy McGabe: We have some we have some tough conversations.
• 12:21
  Dorothy McGabe: Yeah, yeah.
• 12:22
  Dorothy McGabe: But we it's it's uh, you know, we're we're not hitting the headlines with like, you know, a bunch of division and things like that, like some other councils.
• 12:30
  Ian McLean: That would be a unique because that's just not my experience for uh uh for seven years on council.
• 12:35
  Ian McLean: Listen, people often describe your leadership as, and we talked a little bit about this, hands-on, community first.
• 12:40
  Ian McLean: Um but how do you maintain that personal approach of leadership while managing that strategic long-term priority?
• 12:48
  Ian McLean: Because your individual expression of how you would do things is always got to be balanced against what is the community's, you know, and you have a strategic plan, but then you also have long-term things like capital budgets and how and and and budgeting plays a large role because it's in a lot of ways that's strategic.
• 13:07
  Ian McLean: What you spend your money on is is is gonna guide where your strategy is and how you want the city to look.
• 13:14
  Ian McLean: And that's sometimes hard to say.
• 13:15
  Ian McLean: I wonder how is the decision I'm making today gonna mean the city looks in 10 or 15 or 20 years.
• 13:22
  Ian McLean: That's that's a hard balance to come to.
• 13:24
  Dorothy McGabe: Oh, it is, but um I mean the strategic plan has to be linked to the budget.
• 13:29
  Dorothy McGabe: I mean, that's just uh, you know, when and when you know, when people say, Oh, you know, about doing pre-budget consultations, sure, that's important.
• 13:36
  Dorothy McGabe: But I see it as we've done our main budget consultations when we do our deep dive into the community to plan the strategic plan, because that's when you're really hearing from people about what they want their community to look like now and what they want it to look like in the future.
• 13:50
  Dorothy McGabe: So it has to be a reflection of the community needs.
• 13:54
  Dorothy McGabe: So I um not that pre-budget consultations aren't important, but I really, I really lean more heavily on what's happened, what's the conversations and the that have happened through the strategic planning process.
• 14:06
  Dorothy McGabe: And as I said before, I have these community conversations where I've gone into every ward with the counselor, but then also we've brought like, you know, the um the development community together and and then the environmental community and neighborhood groups and you know, thing people, groups that represent the the particular priorities of our strategic plan.
• 14:26
  Dorothy McGabe: And we've over the past three years and continue to have conversations with them.
• 14:31
  Dorothy McGabe: So that keeps us making sure we're we're on the right track, or if we have to course correct.
• 14:36
  Dorothy McGabe: Um, but then of course, staff play a big role in it too.
• 14:39
  Dorothy McGabe: They're experts in their fields, right?
• 14:40
  Dorothy McGabe: And they're they're constantly bringing us advice.
• 14:44
  Ian McLean: Building and mentoring talent, because you you know, elected officials is a small slice.
• 14:49
  Ian McLean: Yeah, I mean, the work at the work gets done by the civil service, by the by the by the senior staff or the staff at at uh at any organization.
• 14:58
  Ian McLean: But uh, how do you try and develop that strong culture at City Hall?
• 15:02
  Ian McLean: Like you you need the best and the brightest to be to be going into civil in into uh administrative and sit public service, civil service roles.
• 15:10
  Ian McLean: Um, how are you trying to develop, and along with Tim and the and the senior group, to develop leaders who kind of who you know deliver or execute on complex citywide product projects that many will have a connection with the region or take your pick, lots of people are involved, school boards, it's a complex, lots of moving parts.
• 15:32
  Ian McLean: You need scene good people who see the value in civil uh public service.
• 15:36
  Ian McLean: How how do you kind of try and bring that to uh to city hall?
• 15:40
  Dorothy McGabe: Well, I mean it's it's a complex thing, and of course we have RHR experts and we do, you know, the whole culture planning and all that kind of stuff.
• 15:47
  Dorothy McGabe: But when I talk to staff either informally, you know, on my way into the office or when I see them at meetings, or you know, but then of course when I see them at uh you know various, you know, in council and things like that.
• 16:00
  Dorothy McGabe: But what I what I've said to them, and it's something that uh I learned from Carl Zyre, former mayor of City of Kitchener, when I worked for him, is he like he used to say to staff, like, bring your passion, like show us like you got into this work and this sector for a reason.
• 16:15
  Dorothy McGabe: Um, often it's because you're really passionate about, like I can tell you, uh, some of the staff who are directors of various departments, they care, and you know, and other staff too, they really care deeply about uh frontline staff to our senior staff.
• 16:29
  Dorothy McGabe: They care deeply about public service and the work they're doing.
• 16:32
  Dorothy McGabe: And it's like, you know, don't be afraid to show that when you come to talk to us about the project or the ideas or changes that you want to make and like tell us why, because like you're the experts in it, you're dealing with it every day in a frontline way.
• 16:46
  Dorothy McGabe: So, you know, share that with us as counsel so that we we know, right, that we can trust you, you know.
• 16:53
  Dorothy McGabe: And so that's the message that I've tried to share with staff is like, you know, um show us your passion.
• 17:07
  Ian McLean: The Behind the Business Podcast is made possible through the support of our title sponsor, Gore Mutual.
• 17:12
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• 17:19
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• 17:21
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• 17:26
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• 17:32
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• 17:36
  Ian McLean: So Waterloo is growing rapidly, and I would say Waterdoo broadly, cities growing, but but the region of Waterdoo is growing rapidly.
• 17:48
  Ian McLean: I think um, and and I think there's starting to be some debate, and a lot of that is because of sort of the the the macro things that are happening in in Canada, right?
• 17:58
  Ian McLean: We've had came through COVID, immigration was out of control, people are feeling pressure about getting homes and doctors and you know, like the schools, the things that they need.
• 18:09
  Ian McLean: But for over 20 years, the province, the city, the region, the whole community has said we are planning to grow to 951,000, so more or less a million people by 2051.
• 18:22
  Ian McLean: Most of us expect that to happen before 2051.
• 18:25
  Ian McLean: Yeah, our chamber has been saying we gotta have this vision one million series.
• 18:29
  Ian McLean: Well, and in and it's less about saying what the vision is, because the vision is set.
• 18:36
  Ian McLean: The real question is the part that's important for us is the are we ready?
• 18:39
  Ian McLean: Do we have the housing and the the of all types that we need?
• 18:44
  Ian McLean: You know, are we gonna have the jobs?
• 18:46
  Ian McLean: What how's the environment gonna look?
• 18:47
  Ian McLean: All of those pieces are important.
• 18:49
  Ian McLean: Um so you know, what as you think about the city becoming a million uh part of a of a region that's a million people, yeah.
• 18:58
  Ian McLean: Um that's a pretty ambitious goal, lots to do.
• 19:01
  Ian McLean: What makes the city um Waterdo unique in that context?
• 19:06
  Ian McLean: Um, and how does it influence the decisions that that the that you and the council are making to be because we are a community of seven different municipalities in a region.
• 19:17
  Ian McLean: That's sometimes hard to balance, but um I I'm just trying, I want to like this is an important question for us all to say is like how do we take our individual parts and understand that it's in a in a bigger context.
• 19:28
  Dorothy McGabe: Right.
• 19:28
  Dorothy McGabe: Yeah.
• 19:29
  Dorothy McGabe: And uh so I yeah, those are really big questions.
• 19:32
  Dorothy McGabe: And and some of it's from you know the regional level where we're talking about infrastructure planning and things like that.
• 19:38
  Dorothy McGabe: But then in in a Waterloo perspective, I mean, part of what I think about a lot is like, how do we make Waterloo or continue to make Waterloo a place where people from wherever, like who wanna who grow up here, that they wanna stay here, who are coming from other places in Canada or around the world, like how do we make it a really vibrant community that is a place because a lot of It's about talent, right?
• 20:01
  Dorothy McGabe: Like we're trying to attract attract some of the best and brightest in the world that they come to like the Perimeter Institute and CG and the universities and the college, right?
• 20:10
  Dorothy McGabe: And and then to some of the businesses too.
• 20:12
  Dorothy McGabe: So how do we make it a city and a region that makes that they want to live in so you know and vibrant?
• 20:18
  Dorothy McGabe: So I mean, that's in in addition to the you know hard infrastructure and the core services, you know, that cities have to deliver, it's also like what's the festivals and events and the cultural activities and you know, just you know, l streetscaping and parks and things like that and coffee shops.
• 20:36
  Dorothy McGabe: Like people, people want to live, work, and play, but the we we all I think sometimes we haven't had enough of an emphasis on the you know the play part, right?
• 20:44
  Dorothy McGabe: Um because it yeah, you wanna you you you want to have a good life here.
• 20:48
  Dorothy McGabe: And so um, so yeah, that's part of the part of it too.
• 20:53
  Dorothy McGabe: It's not it's like what is the um Eric Avner from the um from the uh community.
• 20:58
  Dorothy McGabe: Yeah, he says like it's not just building, it's building better.
• 21:01
  Ian McLean: Yeah, I think that's that's true.
• 21:03
  Ian McLean: Listen, I mean one of the things that I know has been a priority for Waterloo, well for everyone, frankly, but housing is a top concern for everyone across the region.
• 21:14
  Ian McLean: Um Waterloo's been recognized for its success with the housing accelerator fund.
• 21:18
  Ian McLean: You've had some funding from that, also with Build Now Waterloo Region, and and I was at that announcement, which is great news up near Rimbox.
• 21:26
  Dorothy McGabe: 2025 University Avenue.
• 21:28
  Dorothy McGabe: Yeah.
• 21:28
  Ian McLean: Yeah.
• 21:28
  Ian McLean: So there's there's some things happening.
• 21:30
  Ian McLean: What's one visible change residents might notice on their streets and in their community uh as as some of these initiatives come out?
• 21:39
  Ian McLean: Because uh you know a hundred years ago when I was on council, we we came to the realization we didn't have any green field and that a lot of our growth was gonna have to be up or multi-res, and that has continued on for the last I've been here 15 years.
• 21:54
  Ian McLean: That's gotta be 20, 20, 22, 23 years ago when we passed that policy.
• 21:58
  Ian McLean: And you're living that now.
• 21:59
  Ian McLean: And the reality is um the streets and communities and neighborhoods are gonna look different.
• 22:05
  Ian McLean: Like, talk a little bit about that.
• 22:07
  Dorothy McGabe: Yeah, and I give uh former counsels like that uh a lot of credit because like when when the province started changing the planning regime, I'm like, Waterloo did this like 10 or 15 years ago to a large extent, right?
• 22:18
  Dorothy McGabe: So um, but like things that are different going to be different and start starting to already be different is you know, it's kind of going back to like the older days where there was uh retail mixed in, and that could be small businesses and some commercial settings, but it could be a coffee shop or hair salon or dental, whatever, uh or convenience stores mixed in with neighborhoods.
• 22:39
  Dorothy McGabe: That's something that uh, you know, people want to be able to walk and just go and grab a cup of coffee or a bag of milk or something like that.
• 22:47
  Dorothy McGabe: They don't need to have to get so get in a car to go to the grocery store that's 10 kilometers away.
• 22:53
  Dorothy McGabe: Um so those are some things that um you know that we'll see.
• 22:57
  Dorothy McGabe: One of the things we're working on right now, regionally and with the city, is with places of worship, because places of worship, um, you know, congregations are declining.
• 23:07
  Dorothy McGabe: They have a lot of land around often around their place of worship.
• 23:11
  Dorothy McGabe: Um so we've we've got a program in place where we're working with them to try and help them if they're thinking of doing something with their land, what that might look like, how it can be developed, you know.
• 23:24
  Ian McLean: Um for seniors housing for a variety of reasons.
• 23:28
  Dorothy McGabe: Yep, yep.
• 23:29
  Dorothy McGabe: So I mean there's a great example of one that was done in Waterloo at um Beringer and um oh my goodness, by Laurel Creek.
• 23:37
  Dorothy McGabe: Yeah, yeah, um, All Saints Anglican.
• 23:39
  Dorothy McGabe: They sold part of the property to um to Ian Cook Cook Homes, and they've got about 70 townhomes in there now, and then the church rebuilt, still the same piece of property, the same amount.
• 23:50
  Dorothy McGabe: But yeah, it's it's so things like that will uh will look different.
• 23:55
  Dorothy McGabe: I think, and also along our um arterial roads like University, Bridgeport, Herb Street, Univers, those roads, you're gonna start to see six to eight story um housing units, right?
• 24:06
  Dorothy McGabe: With retail and commercial on the on the main floor, because those are transit-oriented communities.
• 24:12
  Dorothy McGabe: So you're gonna see changes like that.
• 24:14
  Ian McLean: Well, I think we all got to expect that.
• 24:16
  Ian McLean: You can't grow without without that if you I guess we're not sprawling out.
• 24:20
  Dorothy McGabe: Yeah, and not everyone wants a single family home.
• 24:24
  Dorothy McGabe: Like it's like younger people today, like they want to be more mobile, but they also some like I mean, this is just a different choice that people, I mean, if you're coming from another country, like I mean, look at Europe.
• 24:35
  Dorothy McGabe: A lot of people live in apartments and flats and conos, right?
• 24:39
  Dorothy McGabe: That's the point.
• 24:40
  Ian McLean: As we change, choice has to be there.
• 24:42
  Ian McLean: And and you know, I do it, you know, I do a lot of work with the immigration partnership.
• 24:46
  Ian McLean: Yeah, the the the newcomers that are coming here, they're gonna fuel our con because they're the workers of the future.
• 24:51
  Ian McLean: Most of them are younger, they've got families.
• 24:53
  Ian McLean: Uh one or two bedroom apartment is not the way they they might live in a three-bedroom apartment, but we don't have any of those.
• 24:59
  Dorothy McGabe: Yeah, yeah.
• 24:59
  Ian McLean: And then so, like how what and and for seniors that want a downsize, what does a assisted or um uh you know a different type of living look like they've got the services?
• 25:09
  Ian McLean: So it I think we've got one bedroom condos are not level.
• 25:12
  Ian McLean: One bedroom condos are not not for everyone.
• 25:15
  Dorothy McGabe: That's why the the 2025 University Avenue project that the city has um developed and then is now build now Waterloo Region is is developing because there's going to be housing units with four or five bedrooms, right?
• 25:28
  Dorothy McGabe: So it's four, and it's so people can get into the marketplace.
• 25:33
  Ian McLean: Uh okay.
• 25:33
  Ian McLean: So what should a small local business that's a chamber member uh but just broadly the small business community know about how they can support um the growth and the goals um that are that are developing and and coming from the city's approach?
• 25:48
  Ian McLean: I mean it needs all hands on deck to make this happen.
• 25:51
  Ian McLean: It's it's it's the development community, it's builders, it's small business, it's those that are growing the economy, investors.
• 25:58
  Ian McLean: What what should what should small businesses most of most of our members are small businesses?
• 26:03
  Ian McLean: What what should they know about what's going on and how can they help?
• 26:06
  Dorothy McGabe: Well, you know, it's a great question.
• 26:07
  Dorothy McGabe: And uh part of the way that small business owners, and I know they're really busy, um, can help is when we ask for input on, you know, our strategic plan or things like that that they could take, even if it's a half an hour, to try, you know, help us and give us their input so we can so we have a better sense of that.
• 26:24
  Dorothy McGabe: Um but um you know I think one of the important things, hopefully for your listeners to understand, is that you know the city is listening.
• 26:34
  Dorothy McGabe: And I would say the region too.
• 26:35
  Dorothy McGabe: I've got two hats, but like we do listen when you know a small business owner talks to us about the challenge they had with getting a building permit or, you know, whatever it could be, right?
• 26:46
  Dorothy McGabe: There's you know public health inputs or implications sometimes.
• 26:50
  Dorothy McGabe: There's like, you know, some of those really practical things we uh we do try to figure out how to try and make it a little easier.
• 26:57
  Dorothy McGabe: But I often just say to people, if you're if you're hitting what you feel like is a bit of a brick wall, just like drop me a text or an email and and uh you know, we'll see if we can talk it through.
• 27:06
  Dorothy McGabe: Because we are we have a we have a deep interest at the city and certainly me personally, and and doing what we can to support small businesses because we know that's that's that's the backbone of it's it's said so much it's a cliche, but it's a cliche because it's true, right?
• 27:21
  Dorothy McGabe: It is it is true.
• 27:22
  Dorothy McGabe: Yes.
• 27:22
  Dorothy McGabe: Well, and you know, we're also like you and I and a lot of others are involved with that AI project that the University of Waterloo is running, and that's something I think that's really exciting.
• 27:32
  Dorothy McGabe: And um and again, the point of that is that to help some of the small businesses figure out how to use AI to their advantage.
• 27:41
  Ian McLean: Well, I think I think one of the things with that project is it it's hard to do pilots with small businesses because they're hard to get there.
• 27:47
  Ian McLean: Yeah, they're busy, they're busy.
• 27:48
  Ian McLean: But I'm excited about that project because I keep saying, remember when I talk about a small business, like we have to go with this.
• 27:57
  Ian McLean: Revenue can or stats canada would say a small business anyone under 500.
• 28:01
  Ian McLean: Yeah.
• 28:01
  Ian McLean: This is the same.
• 28:02
  Ian McLean: For me, a small business is one to ten.
• 28:04
  Ian McLean: One to ten, one to twenty.
• 28:05
  Ian McLean: That's where eighty plus percent of businesses are in every community.
• 28:08
  Ian McLean: Yeah.
• 28:09
  Ian McLean: When you talk small business, that's what it is.
• 28:11
  Ian McLean: And they have a different set of issues and different different realities.
• 28:15
  Ian McLean: So I think it's it's it's very valuable to for for them.
• 28:18
  Dorothy McGabe: That's the beauty of a community like Waterloo and Waterloo Region is that we've got the co-op program with the University of Waterloo and Laurier through their business sector that we can hopefully be able to deploy them into the marketplace to help.
• 28:33
  Ian McLean: Well, and that AI, AI is something that everyone is gonna have to uh understand is coming.
• 28:39
  Ian McLean: So the the the project that we're working on together with Communitech and the universities and others is how do we make that accessible for that small business?
• 28:47
  Ian McLean: And so we've got to figure out what are the project types of thing where they can save money, be more productive, get more money uh in that net to their business so that they can grow, because that's that's the advantage of it.
• 28:57
  Ian McLean: Listen, we're running out of time.
• 28:59
  Ian McLean: We could go on all day.
• 29:00
  Ian McLean: I'm sure we we haven't even got to some of the exciting stuff like the uh the politics, but um what is something uh if someone watching wouldn't know about your role that or that they might not expect?
• 29:13
  Ian McLean: So you you're you because you do have two roles.
• 29:15
  Ian McLean: You're mayor, and also, you know, you're you're kind of lead the city of Waterloo, but you're also on regional council.
• 29:21
  Ian McLean: But what are some of the things might expect um on a more personal or human side of the job that doesn't get headlines?
• 29:27
  Ian McLean: Because people see you as in the mayor's chair, they see you at regional council, but what are some of the other things that I think?
• 29:32
  Dorothy McGabe: Well, one thing that I uh um one thing that I tell people is I don't like my job, I love it.
• 29:37
  Dorothy McGabe: Yeah.
• 29:38
  Dorothy McGabe: So I hope that I don't know if people see that or not.
• 29:40
  Dorothy McGabe: But um, I mean I I do really carve out, I'm mindful about how much time I I save for my family.
• 29:46
  Dorothy McGabe: Um particularly like right now, both my kids are started university outside of the area.
• 29:51
  Dorothy McGabe: And uh and so when they're back now, um they just came home Monday and Tuesday, so it's like really important for me to just save some time for them.
• 30:00
  Dorothy McGabe: So and and that's and you know, I've tried to be mindful of that over the last three years as well.
• 30:05
  Dorothy McGabe: Um and so when we when I sometimes I do go to a lot of events, and sometimes people say, Oh, you you're at everything.
• 30:12
  Dorothy McGabe: Why aren't you coming to mine?
• 30:13
  Dorothy McGabe: And I'm like, you know, I just sometimes make decisions to say I'm keeping this weekend for my family, and uh and I have to say no so yeah.
• 30:23
  Ian McLean: Okay, looking ahead uh I was saying 10 or 20 years, what legacy do you hope um that your term in office and the and your counsel are gonna leave?
• 30:31
  Dorothy McGabe: I'm so young to think about legacy.
• 30:32
  Dorothy McGabe: Well, I know.
• 30:33
  Ian McLean: Well you you you're young.
• 30:36
  Ian McLean: Some of us are feeling older by the day.
• 30:38
  Ian McLean: Uh what's what's the milestone or what do you want to achieve?
• 30:41
  Ian McLean: What's the from your from your time on council?
• 30:44
  Dorothy McGabe: Yeah, well, it's a good question.
• 30:45
  Dorothy McGabe: I mean, a couple things.
• 30:47
  Dorothy McGabe: I mean, the housing piece, um, that was certainly something that I ran on in 2022 was around keeping public land in public hands.
• 30:55
  Dorothy McGabe: So that it really is uh 2025 University Avenue.
• 30:58
  Dorothy McGabe: That will stay in perpetuity because of the the way it's and the legal pieces of it and the way it's set up and and working with habitat.
• 31:06
  Dorothy McGabe: So um, you know, I'm really looking forward to the ground is they're gonna start the first uh building in uh in the spring.
• 31:13
  Dorothy McGabe: Um so I'm really excited about that.
• 31:15
  Dorothy McGabe: You know, we had a the city had a small piece to play in terms of the hospital, the new hospital that's coming.
• 31:21
  Dorothy McGabe: Um, and there's some really exciting work around that that will where the city will have an opportunity on an economic development front, because we've done a partnership with the Accelerator Center.
• 31:30
  Dorothy McGabe: So I think some of the things coming out of that from an economic development, but an innovation, and then of just of course a community and healthcare perspective, those are some big things.
• 31:39
  Dorothy McGabe: Yeah, but then I also really care a lot about climate change, which uh um so we're still doing what we can on that front as well to make sure our city is future-proofed.
• 31:50
  Ian McLean: All important things.
• 31:51
  Ian McLean: Looking uh just as we wrap up, I always do this.
• 31:54
  Ian McLean: Um the the pod when we do this podcast, it's a little bit about leaders and the jobs that they have, but it's also about the leadership style.
• 32:01
  Ian McLean: So I always ask the same set of questions.
• 32:02
  Ian McLean: Okay.
• 32:03
  Ian McLean: So it's rapid fire, okay, short answers.
• 32:06
  Ian McLean: I'll try and talk fast too, just as we wrap up.
• 32:09
  Ian McLean: Um if you could go back and tell your younger self something, what would it be?
• 32:14
  Dorothy McGabe: Go traveling.
• 32:15
  Ian McLean: Yes, that's a that's a good one.
• 32:17
  Dorothy McGabe: Like around the world or across Canada.
• 32:19
  Ian McLean: I love that.
• 32:20
  Ian McLean: Uh who or what inspires you most in your in your journey in in life?
• 32:26
  Dorothy McGabe: Um, you know, I think uh single moms, to be honest, because they work so hard, they care about their kids.
• 32:33
  Dorothy McGabe: I know they've uh and I've seen that even within my own, you know, my own circle of family.
• 32:39
  Dorothy McGabe: Um what they do to support their kids and to support themselves is uh pretty inspiring.
• 32:46
  Ian McLean: I have a little taste of that, so I I think that's a good answer.
• 32:50
  Ian McLean: Um if you weren't uh in your current career, what would you what do you think you'd be doing instead?
• 32:57
  Ian McLean: Yeah.
• 32:57
  Ian McLean: What would you like to be doing?
• 32:59
  Ian McLean: What would you like to be doing?
• 33:01
  Dorothy McGabe: Yeah.
• 33:01
  Dorothy McGabe: I don't know.
• 33:02
  Dorothy McGabe: I'd probably be doing some kind of uh government relations or public affairs work.
• 33:07
  Dorothy McGabe: I mean I think staying involved in the Yeah, I think I s I think I would still because I I just really enjoy um the public service, community service part of it.
• 33:16
  Dorothy McGabe: So I don't know.
• 33:17
  Dorothy McGabe: Maybe I'd be hit, maybe I would take your job.
• 33:19
  Dorothy McGabe: Well, you you know what?
• 33:20
  Ian McLean: It's a great job to have, but if I wasn't doing this, I always say I'd like to be a singer, but I got a bad voice.
• 33:26
  Ian McLean: Oh, like that.
• 33:27
  Ian McLean: But I just kind of think that would be a cool thing to do because I'm gonna love it.
• 33:32
  Ian McLean: But but you know what, it's it's great, it's tough to answer that question when you love what you do.
• 33:36
  Ian McLean: Yeah, yeah.
• 33:38
  Ian McLean: Um are you reading a book?
• 33:39
  Ian McLean: Are you watching podcasts?
• 33:41
  Ian McLean: What are some of the right now?
• 33:42
  Dorothy McGabe: Uh well, I just got Jane Mitchell's Bad Counsel, so I haven't started it yet, but I'm gonna read it over the holidays.
• 33:48
  Ian McLean: Jane Mitchell, the former community.
• 33:49
  Ian McLean: Yeah, yeah.
• 33:50
  Dorothy McGabe: She wrote a book called The Bad Counsel.
• 33:52
  Dorothy McGabe: Yeah.
• 33:52
  Dorothy McGabe: I don't think it refers to when you were on communication.
• 33:54
  Dorothy McGabe: Well, it could have.
• 33:55
  Dorothy McGabe: I don't know.
• 33:57
  Ian McLean: I'll be I'll be interested in reading that.
• 33:59
  Dorothy McGabe: Yeah.
• 33:59
  Dorothy McGabe: Um so bad counsel, I'm gonna read that.
• 34:02
  Dorothy McGabe: I'm actually gonna read a book.
• 34:03
  Dorothy McGabe: It's still work-related.
• 34:04
  Dorothy McGabe: It's called Dialogue.
• 34:05
  Dorothy McGabe: Paul Bourne recommended it, who's like an expert in community uh consultation.
• 34:11
  Dorothy McGabe: Uh, but I don't uh podcast I listen to all the time is The Curse of Politics.
• 34:15
  Dorothy McGabe: Have you heard of it with David Hurley?
• 34:17
  Dorothy McGabe: Yes, I do.
• 34:17
  Dorothy McGabe: I'm a regular.
• 34:19
  Dorothy McGabe: Well, yeah, he does too.
• 34:21
  Dorothy McGabe: Hurley Burley, but then the the curse of politics is is uh I think I've listened to that one off to Technical.
• 34:26
  Dorothy McGabe: The curse part is uh well named.
• 34:29
  Dorothy McGabe: Oh yeah.
• 34:30
  Dorothy McGabe: Well he's got a liberal, a conservative, and an NDP strategist, and they just talk about yeah, it's really interesting.
• 34:36
  Dorothy McGabe: Tune into that one.
• 34:37
  Ian McLean: And I like the serious FM version versus the uh the the family friendly version.
• 34:42
  Ian McLean: Uh which I know this is a dangerous question for you, but what what is a favorite local business here in Waterloo that you uh that you frequent on a regular?
• 34:51
  Dorothy McGabe: Oh well, I don't know if I have a favorite one.
• 34:53
  Dorothy McGabe: I mean, I do love shopping in Uptown.
• 34:55
  Dorothy McGabe: Yes.
• 34:55
  Dorothy McGabe: And we've you know we're we're really promoting the crew there.
• 34:58
  Dorothy McGabe: Yeah, yeah.
• 34:58
  Dorothy McGabe: We're really promoting support local, of course.
• 35:01
  Dorothy McGabe: But uh yeah, there's too many to choose from too many to choose from.
• 35:05
  Ian McLean: Okay, and for those that are listening, want to get make a connection or get involved in the policy process, what's the best place for people to uh connect with you?
• 35:14
  Dorothy McGabe: Well, it's gonna sound silly, but I think Instagram, because like there are some just if you go there now, there's some very fun and funny uh videos on there, holiday videos, but that's also where we post like about council decisions and things that are coming up.
• 35:26
  Dorothy McGabe: Like we post a lot of serious uh and relevant information as well as uh as well as just some of the events and activities I've been to.
• 35:34
  Dorothy McGabe: Or just go to any community event that you can find.
• 35:37
  Dorothy McGabe: Yeah, yeah.
• 35:38
  Ian McLean: Listen, thank you.
• 35:39
  Ian McLean: I know you know we always say for business owners, for elected officials, time's probably your most uh most valuable commodity.
• 35:45
  Ian McLean: So we appreciate you spending some time with us tonight.
• 35:47
  Dorothy McGabe: Thank you.
• 35:47
  Dorothy McGabe: Well, I appreciate that uh you taking the time to do these kind of things because it's the more like we have to reach out in so many different ways to get people and and uh and this kind of stuff's really important.
• 35:56
  Dorothy McGabe: So thanks, Ian.
• 35:58
  Ian McLean: Thanks for having me.
• 35:58
  Dorothy McGabe: All right.
• 35:59
  Ian McLean: Thank you for joining us for another episode of Behind the Business, proudly presented by Gore Mutual, insurance that does good.
• 36:06
  Ian McLean: New episodes drop every Thursday, so be sure to tune in next week.
• 36:10
  Ian McLean: You can also visit greater kw chamber.com to catch up on past episodes at any time.
• 36:15
  Ian McLean: We'll see you next time as we continue to go.