Latest / Foul Territory / Ken Rosenthal’s Inside Scoop + Zack Meisel on Cleveland’s comeback

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Ken Rosenthal’s Inside Scoop + Zack Meisel on Cleveland’s comeback · Foul Territory

0:05
Speaker 1: The Inside Scoop with that FT senior insider Ken Rosenthal. Ken,
0:09
Speaker 1: I want to shed our Midwest bias just for a moment.
0:12
Speaker 1: We spent sixteen minutes on the Al Central. We're talking
0:14
Speaker 1: about them basically at the top of the show every day.
0:17
Speaker 1: So let's finally give the Al East a little bit
0:20
Speaker 1: of love one time. Okay, So your thoughts on what's
0:23
Speaker 1: going down right now? The Yankees clinch, they win, Blue
0:26
Speaker 1: Jays fall to a Red Sox team that needs to
0:28
Speaker 1: stay competitive. Do you think that we still have ourselves
0:31
Speaker 1: a little race here with the Yanks one game back.
0:34
Speaker 2: I do, And Scott, that might be the first time
0:36
Speaker 2: in broadcast history where somebody said they had an Ale
0:40
Speaker 2: Central bias. That's not a common thing you hear on
0:43
Speaker 2: any airwaves. But as for the Ale East, sure it's
0:47
Speaker 2: still alive one because the margin is you can see
0:50
Speaker 2: right there. Just one game two. Because Garrett Crochet starts
0:53
Speaker 2: tonight for the Red Sox against the Blue Jays. Blue
0:56
Speaker 2: Jays are having trouble scoring, happens to all teams. Maybe
0:59
Speaker 2: they're feeling a little bit as they close in on
1:02
Speaker 2: the division, but this is still quite something. And yes,
1:05
Speaker 2: the Blue Jays do hold the tiebreaker. It's a distinct advantage.
1:09
Speaker 2: But we've got a ways to go here and we'll
1:12
Speaker 2: see what happens. The Yankees have the White Sox and
1:14
Speaker 2: Orioles left. They've got a chance to run the table
1:17
Speaker 2: here and then that will increase the pressure on Toronto.
1:22
Speaker 1: A couple things on Toronto, Ken for you. Number one,
1:26
Speaker 1: alec Renoa was designated for assignment by the team. So
1:30
Speaker 1: her thoughts on the rise and the fall of Manoa
1:33
Speaker 1: within the organization because this team is going to lose
1:36
Speaker 1: some starting pitchers, most likely this offseason due to free agency.
1:41
Speaker 1: So what did you think of that move? I'll start
1:42
Speaker 1: there with you.
1:44
Speaker 2: I was surprised. I would believe that most people in
1:47
Speaker 2: baseball were surprised by this news. You see it right
1:50
Speaker 2: there that Russ Atkins said. It came down to roster
1:53
Speaker 2: crunch and depth. Also, they did not like what they
1:55
Speaker 2: were seeing from Manoa. Filo is down. The body wasn't great.
1:59
Speaker 2: Of course, he's had some conflict with the organization and
2:02
Speaker 2: Scott you mentioned the rise and fall. His rise was
2:05
Speaker 2: pretty spectacular. For a while there it looked like he
2:07
Speaker 2: might be the next great pitcher in the major leagues.
2:10
Speaker 2: And he was in the All Star Game if you remember,
2:13
Speaker 2: he was miked up. It was a really entertaining player.
2:16
Speaker 2: He was a really good player for a long time,
2:19
Speaker 2: and then the injuries happened, and here is where he
2:21
Speaker 2: is today. If I were Alec Manoa right now, I'd
2:25
Speaker 2: be fired up by this. I'd be like, Okay, you're
2:28
Speaker 2: giving up on me when you could have dfaed any
2:30
Speaker 2: number of other players. I'm sure they had others on
2:33
Speaker 2: their forty man they could have gone and lopped off,
2:36
Speaker 2: but they gave up on him. So it's a challenge
2:39
Speaker 2: to him. Obviously, it's an organization saying we don't want
2:43
Speaker 2: you anymore. And I would expect Alec Manoa will come
2:46
Speaker 2: out of this thinking, you know what, I've got something
2:49
Speaker 2: to prove and I'm going to prove it.
2:52
Speaker 3: Speaking of the blueche is, before we get into the
2:54
Speaker 3: Springer fair ball controversy, which I still don't know why
2:57
Speaker 3: we can't figure out how to review some of this stuff.
2:59
Speaker 3: What that's wrong? Lady Vladdy Junior like his for month
3:03
Speaker 3: and a half now, he's he has not performed. John
3:06
Speaker 3: Schneider kind of I don't want to say called him
3:08
Speaker 3: out the other day, but kind of we need more
3:11
Speaker 3: out of him, but he's one swing away kind of
3:13
Speaker 3: he's given away at bats this and that. What the
3:15
Speaker 3: heck's going on with Laddy because they need him now
3:17
Speaker 3: more than.
3:17
Speaker 2: Ever A j I'm not exactly sure what's going on
3:21
Speaker 2: with him, but you're right, it's been something of a
3:23
Speaker 2: concern there. And with Bishette out still and we don't
3:26
Speaker 2: know when he's coming back, it's that much more of
3:28
Speaker 2: a concern. And we all know too, this is the
3:31
Speaker 2: time of year, crunch time, when you want your best
3:34
Speaker 2: players to step up. It's happening in New York with
3:36
Speaker 2: Aaron Judge, happening in Seattle with Kyle Raley, happening with
3:40
Speaker 2: other teams as well that are in contention show hey
3:43
Speaker 2: last night, for example, and Vlad is their guy. He's
3:47
Speaker 2: their five hundred million dollar player now, So sure it's
3:49
Speaker 2: not unreasonable for them to say, hey, man, let's go. Obviously,
3:54
Speaker 2: they're in a bit of a rut right now and
3:57
Speaker 2: they've got to come out of it. It's as simple
3:59
Speaker 2: as that. They've got to out of it or they
4:01
Speaker 2: lose the division and things change for them. They've got
4:04
Speaker 2: to play the wildcard round, where they've had trouble. So
4:07
Speaker 2: what was looking so promising for the Jays just a
4:10
Speaker 2: few days ago now looks more troublesome. But again, they
4:15
Speaker 2: do have this in their control. They control their destiny,
4:18
Speaker 2: as we say at this time of year, with the tiebreaker,
4:20
Speaker 2: with the one game lead. But as we've seen in
4:24
Speaker 2: so many of these races, which have been so exciting
4:26
Speaker 2: and interesting, you gotta win. You got to keep winning,
4:29
Speaker 2: and they're not doing that right now.
4:31
Speaker 4: Okay, let's go to that Springer play that AJ talked
4:34
Speaker 4: about when they created the review rules. Was there a
4:38
Speaker 4: reason why they said no nothing in front of the umpires.
4:42
Speaker 4: Was there something we're trying to stay away from that
4:44
Speaker 4: I don't see because we feel like we have so
4:47
Speaker 4: much good technology, can't we get this right? And has
4:51
Speaker 4: it been brought up when they talk about these rule
4:53
Speaker 4: changes or things like.
4:54
Speaker 2: This, Eric, I don't remember why this was excluded from
4:59
Speaker 2: the plays that could be reviewed. My guess is, and
5:02
Speaker 2: I'm only guessing, so I don't want to say anything
5:05
Speaker 2: definitive here, is that they didn't want to expand it
5:07
Speaker 2: to the point where everything under the sun was potentially
5:11
Speaker 2: under review. That said, that call the.
5:13
Speaker 5: Other night was pretty clearly wrong any angle you look at,
5:20
Speaker 5: and I know we don't have necessarily the perfect angle,
5:22
Speaker 5: but my gosh, it looked like.
5:24
Speaker 2: The ball went over the bag. It looked like Springer
5:26
Speaker 2: had an entirely legitimate beef when he was caught by
5:29
Speaker 2: John Boys saying if they want to give it to
5:31
Speaker 2: New York, they should just give it to them. About it.
5:33
Speaker 2: About that, but I can understand certainly his frustration with
5:37
Speaker 2: the call, and Eric would seem to me it would
5:41
Speaker 2: behoove the league to now say, Okay, you know what,
5:44
Speaker 2: let's do the lines too. And there are some other
5:47
Speaker 2: areas perhaps that they would want to consider. We're going
5:50
Speaker 2: to ABS next year, so that's another area where we're
5:53
Speaker 2: going to look to eliminate the egregious. Why not do
5:56
Speaker 2: it with this as well? I'm not sure what the
5:59
Speaker 2: answer is. Actually, I probably should try to find out.
6:02
Speaker 4: And throw in foul tips while you're at it, because
6:05
Speaker 4: they're talking about check swings and stuff like that. But
6:08
Speaker 4: that's my wish list. ABS. What did you take from
6:13
Speaker 4: one the fact that it's coming in kind of boring,
6:16
Speaker 4: we knew that was going to happen, And two the
6:19
Speaker 4: voting and how the voting. Yes, it passed. But is
6:24
Speaker 4: there something more to read into that? Obviously, with the
6:26
Speaker 4: collective bargaining coming.
6:28
Speaker 2: Out, I don't think so, And actually I was surprised
6:31
Speaker 2: that the players were as favorable in the end as
6:35
Speaker 2: it turned out. Right there was two thirds? Am I
6:37
Speaker 2: correct in saying that, Okay, two thirds is a pretty
6:40
Speaker 2: good majority, and with abs there was always going to
6:45
Speaker 2: be some players who dissented. There were some concerns raised,
6:48
Speaker 2: and I wrote about them with Jason Stark about the system,
6:51
Speaker 2: But by and large, players who have appeared in the
6:55
Speaker 2: minor leagues in the last few years have experienced it,
6:58
Speaker 2: they know what it is, and most of them seem
7:00
Speaker 2: quite okay with it. So I would imagine if we
7:03
Speaker 2: broke down the vote, if we had the public release
7:06
Speaker 2: of the votes, we'd see more objections from the veterans
7:09
Speaker 2: and maybe from the catching community, But in general, the
7:13
Speaker 2: players seem to understand one this was coming anyway, and
7:17
Speaker 2: two that it ultimately could be a good thing. Zach
7:20
Speaker 2: Gallan was quoted today as saying, Hey, there might be
7:23
Speaker 2: a three to two call on a close game and
7:24
Speaker 2: the ninth inning that I throw a pitch where it's
7:28
Speaker 2: called a ball and it's crucial that it's a strike
7:30
Speaker 2: and I get the pitch when it's overturned. That's a
7:33
Speaker 2: good thing, and I would agree with him on that.
7:36
Speaker 2: So by and large, I'm excited about this. I expect
7:41
Speaker 2: it's going to be a good thing for the game.
7:43
Speaker 2: And the most encouraging thing to me is, well, two
7:47
Speaker 2: things actually. One that we're not going full abs that
7:50
Speaker 2: to me would be a mistake, and that's never really
7:52
Speaker 2: even been something that had that much momentum. The other
7:55
Speaker 2: thing that I like here is that it's quick. Everyone
7:59
Speaker 2: says that this is going to be a fifteen second process,
8:02
Speaker 2: So at the most, if it's fifteen seconds, that's nothing.
8:06
Speaker 2: It's not like with replay, where sometimes it dodges dragon
8:09
Speaker 2: and can be a detriment. This is not going to
8:11
Speaker 2: be that. And ultimately it's going to be something that
8:14
Speaker 2: adds strategy. It's going to be something that reduces arguments,
8:18
Speaker 2: I would think, and it's going to be something that
8:20
Speaker 2: as a whole benefits the game. So while there are
8:23
Speaker 2: concerns with it, as there are any time something new
8:26
Speaker 2: is introduced, again it's a win for the sport.
8:32
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8:33
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9:33
Speaker 3: Ken do you have your passport? You have a passport?
9:35
Speaker 3: Do you have do they have make passports for new people.
9:39
Speaker 3: I do you do you?
9:40
Speaker 4: Okay?
9:41
Speaker 2: What are we talking about? You?
9:42
Speaker 6: Reporter people?
9:43
Speaker 3: You reporter people?
9:44
Speaker 2: What do we need passboards to?
9:46
Speaker 6: Okay?
9:46
Speaker 3: I just didn't know how it worked. If you had
9:48
Speaker 3: special lanyards, you had to wear something. I'm not sure.
9:50
Speaker 3: But because the reason I asked this is you're on Fox.
9:53
Speaker 3: I'm on Fox. You're more than likely going to Toronto
9:56
Speaker 3: or New York one of the others, so I want
9:57
Speaker 3: to make sure that you have a passport. I'm more
9:59
Speaker 3: than likely have to fly across the country and go
10:01
Speaker 3: to Seattle, which is great because I love Seattle. Can
10:04
Speaker 3: Seattle make a deep run with the way their team
10:07
Speaker 3: is constructed because they've won the West? The West is
10:10
Speaker 3: over there four games up, they have the tiebreaker, the
10:12
Speaker 3: whole thing, the West is over? Can they make a
10:14
Speaker 3: deep run for the first time ever? And dare I
10:17
Speaker 3: say it? Mariner fans make it to the World Series?
10:21
Speaker 2: I say the answer to that is yes. And I
10:23
Speaker 2: like the fact not only that they're poised to win
10:26
Speaker 2: the division, but they have firm control of the number
10:29
Speaker 2: two seed, which ensures a buye and an outside shot
10:33
Speaker 2: at least at the number one seed. So the way
10:36
Speaker 2: this is laying out for them or playing out for them.
10:39
Speaker 2: I should say they're gonna be able to set up
10:41
Speaker 2: their pitching. They're going to be able to get some
10:43
Speaker 2: rest and at home where they have been absolutely dominant
10:48
Speaker 2: for some time now, this is a good setup for them.
10:51
Speaker 2: They're gonna be the home team or the home field
10:54
Speaker 2: advantage in the division series if this holds, and maybe
10:57
Speaker 2: throughout the AL playoffs, if indeed they get that number
11:00
Speaker 2: one seed, which is again an outside chance. But they're
11:03
Speaker 2: a game behind the Yankees, two game behind the Toronto
11:06
Speaker 2: Blue Jays. So with their pitching, we've always thought, all
11:10
Speaker 2: of us have always thought, if they get in, they're
11:12
Speaker 2: really dangerous. And I just love what Naylor has brought
11:15
Speaker 2: to that team. He's brought them an edge, and we
11:18
Speaker 2: talk about guys who play with an edge and have
11:21
Speaker 2: a little bit more to them, and how there are
11:23
Speaker 2: so few in the game today. He's one of them,
11:26
Speaker 2: and in my view, what he does for a team
11:29
Speaker 2: is beyond the numbers. There's a certain grittiness to him
11:32
Speaker 2: and we've seen it. I think he has now six
11:35
Speaker 2: game winning hits since joining the Mariners, some kind of
11:37
Speaker 2: stat like that. So I do like them, right now,
11:41
Speaker 2: and yes, you have to like them. Their bullpen is
11:44
Speaker 2: good as well. So there's a lot going on that's
11:47
Speaker 2: good in Seattle, and playing at home or having a
11:50
Speaker 2: home field advantage will make it even better.
11:53
Speaker 4: Does this last five games? Since AJ said it has
11:56
Speaker 4: already wrapped up for the Mariners, I know Cal's gonna
12:00
Speaker 4: play every game. Does that hurt his chances for the MVP?
12:04
Speaker 4: Does he need that narrative to push all the way through?
12:08
Speaker 4: What if they get the best record in the American League,
12:10
Speaker 4: is not going to change his MVP voting status.
12:15
Speaker 2: I would say with five games remaining, certainly he can
12:19
Speaker 2: enhance his status. I don't know that he can hurt it.
12:22
Speaker 2: Even if he goes over twenty five. I don't really
12:24
Speaker 2: see that happening for one thing, And also, what he's
12:27
Speaker 2: done already is unique in the game's history, and it
12:32
Speaker 2: has firmly established him as a powerful MVP candidate. Now,
12:36
Speaker 2: I've said all along and I believe this, and I
12:39
Speaker 2: don't have a vote this year in the MVP race
12:41
Speaker 2: in the American League. To me, there is no wrong choice.
12:45
Speaker 2: And while Raley has had a historic season and he's
12:48
Speaker 2: done something that's never been done by a catcher or
12:50
Speaker 2: a switch hitter. He's almost redefined what a catcher can
12:54
Speaker 2: do in this game, and it's amazing to think about
12:56
Speaker 2: all of that. We cannot forget that Judge is having
13:00
Speaker 2: an historic season too. This is these seasons that he
13:03
Speaker 2: has had twenty two, twenty four, now twenty five are
13:06
Speaker 2: among the greatest seasons by a right handed history hitter
13:10
Speaker 2: in American League National League history. So his advantage OPS
13:14
Speaker 2: is something like one hundred and seventy points. Now, Raley does,
13:18
Speaker 2: of course, so many other things as a catcher where
13:20
Speaker 2: you can certainly justify reducing that or at least saying
13:24
Speaker 2: that compensates for the difference in OPS. Again, I don't
13:28
Speaker 2: believe there's a wrong choice. I know people in Seattle
13:30
Speaker 2: and people in New York might feel otherwise. I'd be
13:33
Speaker 2: comfortable with either. Right now, I would say the narrative
13:37
Speaker 2: probably favors Raleigh fifty eight home runs and if he
13:40
Speaker 2: gets to sixty, I mean, come on. But at the
13:43
Speaker 2: same time, we cannot forget what Judge is doing here.
13:48
Speaker 2: We cannot overlook what he is doing here. That's why
13:51
Speaker 2: it is such an interesting argument.
13:54
Speaker 3: Ken The Tigers are collapsing like nobody's visits. The Dodgers
13:58
Speaker 3: bullpen has collapse, like nobody's business. Which one's worse, which
14:02
Speaker 3: one's a bigger deal? Obviously you're going to say the
14:04
Speaker 3: Tigers because they might not make the playoffs, But I mean,
14:06
Speaker 3: what has happened to the Dodgers' bullpen and what's happened
14:09
Speaker 3: to the Tigers.
14:12
Speaker 2: The Tigers have just kind of unraveled and they're starting.
14:15
Speaker 2: Pitching since September first has not been very good, at
14:18
Speaker 2: least by their usual standards. They were ranking I believe,
14:21
Speaker 2: seventh through August in era and now since then not
14:27
Speaker 2: so good. Their offense has been less extreme in its underperformance,
14:32
Speaker 2: but still not performing the way it should and right now.
14:35
Speaker 2: For honestly, I had a GM say this to me
14:37
Speaker 2: this morning. He doesn't think Cleveland's a good team. He
14:40
Speaker 2: doesn't think Detroit is a good team. And the reason
14:42
Speaker 2: he knocks Cleveland, even though they're as hot as they are,
14:44
Speaker 2: is simply because their offense is so lacking for lack
14:48
Speaker 2: of a better term. So it's interesting that the Tigers
14:52
Speaker 2: last year led this charmed existence, the pitching chaos. They
14:57
Speaker 2: had this incredible run, historic run, and now it's historic
15:01
Speaker 2: the other way. I don't know what that speaks to.
15:04
Speaker 2: They could have had a better deadline, yes, but this
15:06
Speaker 2: is kind of a system wide collapse the Dodgers. The
15:10
Speaker 2: bullpen has been an issue all season and they were
15:14
Speaker 2: waiting for trying to come back. He came back. He's
15:16
Speaker 2: not been as good. Yeates not as good as he
15:20
Speaker 2: was last year for sure. Tanner Scott ten blown saves
15:24
Speaker 2: leading the major leagues. It's just one after another of
15:28
Speaker 2: the high priced guys who have not performed well. Some
15:31
Speaker 2: of the others like alex Avessia have. Where it leaves
15:34
Speaker 2: them is a really interesting place because as we go
15:37
Speaker 2: into the postseason, their starting rotation looks great. A Tony
15:41
Speaker 2: was brilliant last night, like incredible, brilliant. Yamamoto has been great,
15:45
Speaker 2: he's a probable cy Young top five finisher, and Blake
15:49
Speaker 2: Sdale has been really good since coming back. Kershaw will
15:52
Speaker 2: be in the bullpen, it would seem, and they've got
15:54
Speaker 2: Tyler Glass now they can perhaps use him in the
15:56
Speaker 2: bullpen as well. But will you be able to get
16:00
Speaker 2: it through all nine innings? That's going to be the
16:02
Speaker 2: question with them, and it's a big problem and they're
16:05
Speaker 2: not getting the ninety five wins, right. We also thought
16:08
Speaker 2: this was a super team, this was the team that
16:10
Speaker 2: was going to ruin baseball. No, they're not going to
16:12
Speaker 2: get to ninety five. They're not going to have a buye.
16:15
Speaker 2: And there are real questions here whether in the postseason
16:19
Speaker 2: they can suddenly snap their fingers and say, okay, now
16:23
Speaker 2: it's time to go that. We've been waiting for that
16:25
Speaker 2: all year and they really haven't done it. They did
16:27
Speaker 2: it in one series, that series against the Padres when
16:30
Speaker 2: they swept them. Otherwise they've just been kind of there.
16:34
Speaker 3: Kind real quick before you go. If the if the
16:37
Speaker 3: Tigers have a chance and they're one game by or
16:40
Speaker 3: they're tied with the Guardians going to the last day,
16:42
Speaker 3: and they can pitch school ball and win, but also
16:45
Speaker 3: know that the Guardians could win and not win the division.
16:47
Speaker 3: Do you pitch school board? Do you just say screw it,
16:50
Speaker 3: We'll take the wild card, have schoobl Game one.
16:52
Speaker 1: They're already in, so they the postseason. Yeah, but you
16:55
Speaker 1: have questions to win the division.
16:56
Speaker 3: Or not win the division, pitching or not pitching schoobl.
17:00
Speaker 2: It's a tough one. I think if you're already in,
17:03
Speaker 2: you have to play for the postseason and you have
17:05
Speaker 2: to worry about the postseason. It's a tough call because, yes,
17:08
Speaker 2: winning the division has its advantages, and you could then
17:11
Speaker 2: back up Schooble to Game one of the division series,
17:14
Speaker 2: but it would seem to me you have to play
17:18
Speaker 2: for what is best for you in the postseason, and
17:21
Speaker 2: that would be Schooble in a game one situation in
17:24
Speaker 2: a wildcard series. Tough call. What's your thought AJ on
17:27
Speaker 2: that one?
17:28
Speaker 3: I say, you punt and you go for the you
17:30
Speaker 3: go for the you go for the wildcard and you
17:31
Speaker 3: say I'm pitching them in game one?
17:32
Speaker 4: You give up.
17:34
Speaker 3: I mean, now the owner of the team is going
17:35
Speaker 3: to say I want the money and I want the
17:37
Speaker 3: home games. But at the same time, you say, well,
17:39
Speaker 3: if we get to the division series, we get better,
17:41
Speaker 3: we have a better chance. So right, I'm punning and
17:43
Speaker 3: saying school will get ready for Game one on Tuesday.
17:46
Speaker 2: I think I'm doing the same. Yep.
17:48
Speaker 1: Crat's a great I agree to so consensus, but good
17:50
Speaker 1: question of the day, Ken, thanks for stopping Bible say tomorrow.
17:53
Speaker 1: Thanks guys, tomorrow is fair territory. Taking your questions alive.
17:59
Speaker 1: It's a line of It's Ken it's Grill and Ken
18:02
Speaker 1: at some point, unfair territory. Hey, we're back, Zach Meizell
18:06
Speaker 1: joining us right now from the athletic covering well Cleveland
18:10
Speaker 1: team that is very much back in the thicket thing.
18:14
Speaker 2: Zach.
18:14
Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, And what is your reaction to
18:18
Speaker 1: what you've been seeing here over the past couple weeks,
18:20
Speaker 1: Because it happened really fast, as we mentioned, I mean
18:22
Speaker 1: two weeks ago, they were almost ten games back.
18:26
Speaker 6: Yeah. I was actually in a debate last night with
18:29
Speaker 6: Jeff Passon because we were talking about what's the best
18:32
Speaker 6: arbitrary endpoint to make this sound as insane as possible,
18:37
Speaker 6: Like fifteen and a half games back in the division
18:40
Speaker 6: sounds like a ton, But that's what they were in
18:42
Speaker 6: early July. Right. If you say I argued eleven games back,
18:47
Speaker 6: I think nineteen days ago, that to me seems the
18:50
Speaker 6: craziest arbitrary endpoint you could pick. So it really it
18:54
Speaker 6: doesn't matter when you pick it. But it's the last
18:57
Speaker 6: three weeks really that this has completely flipped the script
19:01
Speaker 6: and it's hard to explain. Like that sixth inning last night,
19:05
Speaker 6: you're sitting there thinking what is happening? How is this happening?
19:09
Speaker 6: But that's been the last three weeks, whether you're in
19:12
Speaker 6: Detroit or you're in Cleveland, or you're just watching at
19:15
Speaker 6: home with your feed up in neither city enjoying the
19:18
Speaker 6: collapse and the comeback.
19:21
Speaker 4: So which is it more? Is it more of a
19:23
Speaker 4: collapse or more of a comeback?
19:27
Speaker 6: So the fact that these teams kind of did this
19:31
Speaker 6: last year too, right, like the Tigers are on the
19:34
Speaker 6: other end of it, almost makes me think it's more
19:37
Speaker 6: of a collapse, just because they should know better. They
19:40
Speaker 6: did this last year right, they were on the other
19:42
Speaker 6: side of it. And I do think the fact that
19:44
Speaker 6: these teams have played each other during this stretch plays
19:48
Speaker 6: into that. I mean, once, you know, I'm curious to
19:51
Speaker 6: see how the Tigers look tonight coming out of it,
19:53
Speaker 6: because it felt like that was set up for them
19:56
Speaker 6: to break out of their swoon. You know, you've got
19:59
Speaker 6: school on the mound after an off day, you can
20:03
Speaker 6: kind of regroup, and you guys know this, like, you
20:06
Speaker 6: can go one of two directions. You can either dwell
20:08
Speaker 6: on what's happened and freak out about what might happen,
20:12
Speaker 6: or you can clear your head and come back to
20:14
Speaker 6: the ballpark and move forward. But you know the fact
20:17
Speaker 6: that the Guardians got that one last night, did so
20:19
Speaker 6: in the fashion that they did it. You know that
20:23
Speaker 6: I lean a little more toward collapse, but mostly just
20:26
Speaker 6: because I at no point in the first five months
20:28
Speaker 6: of the season to the Guardians demonstrate that this was possible.
20:32
Speaker 6: So it's I don't know, there's no point in explaining it.
20:35
Speaker 6: It's just let's all be along for.
20:37
Speaker 3: The ride before I dig too deep. How's How's Fry?
20:42
Speaker 3: Have we had an update on on David Fry yet
20:44
Speaker 3: from last night, because that was one of the scariest
20:46
Speaker 3: things I've ever seen.
20:48
Speaker 6: Yeah, nothing official. We'll get the official word within the
20:51
Speaker 6: next hour. It sounds like, you know, given what happened,
20:59
Speaker 6: I don't want to say good news, but you know,
21:01
Speaker 6: like what you would expect and kind of hope for
21:04
Speaker 6: is the case. You know, there's no getting out of
21:06
Speaker 6: the way of a ninety nine mile an hour fastball
21:08
Speaker 6: when you're squaring a BN like that, So obviously that
21:11
Speaker 6: left some damage. But I think for the purposes of
21:15
Speaker 6: you know, they kept him overnight at the Cleveland Clinic
21:17
Speaker 6: main campus, and you know, I think he's doing well
21:21
Speaker 6: based on actually just you want the update live I
21:24
Speaker 6: could read it to you multiple minimally displaced left sided
21:29
Speaker 6: facial and nasal fractures. So he's expected to fully recover
21:33
Speaker 6: in the next six to eight weeks and not need surgery.
21:37
Speaker 4: There you go, that's huge, that's a huge. I mean,
21:42
Speaker 4: that's answer to prayer. That's a huge when you see
21:44
Speaker 4: something like that happen. Let's get to the environment last night.
21:49
Speaker 4: Let's get to you know, we know that this team
21:52
Speaker 4: is carrying the city on its back. The stadium looked
21:57
Speaker 4: like it was a playoff atmosphere. They were ending with
22:01
Speaker 4: a runner on third and one out and Arius was
22:05
Speaker 4: up there standing in situations wearing the regular season Yeah,
22:09
Speaker 4: it's a little amped when it's a Scooball game. You know,
22:12
Speaker 4: you're trying to face the best pitcher in the game.
22:14
Speaker 4: But what was the atmosphere like? And did they haven't
22:19
Speaker 4: I heard they had a ton of walk ups ticket purchases.
22:23
Speaker 4: Did that make the or was there something else that
22:25
Speaker 4: they did with getting fans in the stands?
22:29
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean they had almost thirty thousand last night.
22:31
Speaker 6: And I can tell you know, usually this time of year,
22:34
Speaker 6: there's there's a football team that plays down the street
22:36
Speaker 6: and no matter what their record is. That's all this
22:40
Speaker 6: city pays attention to from July until well, I guess
22:44
Speaker 6: till after the draft since they're usually in prominent draft position.
22:49
Speaker 6: So this time of year usually have we have a
22:52
Speaker 6: main interview room for pregame and postgame, and you're looking
22:55
Speaker 6: around there and feel like I'm usually one of three
22:57
Speaker 6: or four reporters, and I just caught myself last night.
23:00
Speaker 6: I couldn't find a seat. And that never happens, right,
23:03
Speaker 6: you know, in the playoffs it does, but for a
23:05
Speaker 6: regular season game that was new, and so you could
23:08
Speaker 6: have tricked yourself into believing that this was game one
23:12
Speaker 6: of the Alds or a wildcard series. I mean, the
23:15
Speaker 6: place was electric. There are actual stakes this week. You know,
23:19
Speaker 6: both teams reorganized their rotations to make sure it was
23:22
Speaker 6: Schooble against Gavin Williams, and you know, the way that
23:26
Speaker 6: game unfolded like it was, it was nuts. You know,
23:29
Speaker 6: the atmosphere was awesome. So they're hopeful that there will
23:33
Speaker 6: be more of that.
23:34
Speaker 2: I know that.
23:35
Speaker 6: Friday, like they could be flirting with a sellout against
23:38
Speaker 6: the Rangers. They're expecting decent crowds tonight and tomorrow, so
23:43
Speaker 6: you know, credit to the city of Cleveland. I think
23:44
Speaker 6: they've they've bought in in a hurry, just with how
23:48
Speaker 6: quickly the season has turned around.
23:51
Speaker 3: Well, good for the good for the people of Cleveland,
23:53
Speaker 3: and good for the Guardians on making this a race
23:55
Speaker 3: and keeping it alive.
23:58
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Speaker 4: How good?
25:00
Speaker 3: How would you even describe this pitching staff though, with
25:03
Speaker 3: what they've done Gavin Williams, big Rig and Tanner Biby
25:06
Speaker 3: Parker Messix going on on on Thursday tomorrow and the
25:11
Speaker 3: rest of this entire stuff. What is it eighteen or
25:13
Speaker 3: nineteen games? The starters have given up two runs or
25:15
Speaker 3: less or sixteen seventeen and two in that stretch, Like,
25:18
Speaker 3: what flip for these guys? Because Kate Smith's been unbelievable
25:22
Speaker 3: in the back end. The rest of the bullpen has
25:24
Speaker 3: been unbelievable.
25:25
Speaker 6: What what flipped?
25:25
Speaker 3: Especially for these starters.
25:28
Speaker 6: Yeah, so Slade Secni said it the best because two
25:30
Speaker 6: weeks ago he carried a no hitter into the eighth
25:32
Speaker 6: inning and then a few days later he was reflecting
25:35
Speaker 6: back on it and he's like, man, that was the
25:37
Speaker 6: third best start we've had this week. Like it's there's
25:40
Speaker 6: some friendly competition there. It feels like everybody is putting forth,
25:46
Speaker 6: you know, the best start that they've ever made in
25:47
Speaker 6: their career. Tanner Bibby threw a complete game shut out
25:50
Speaker 6: that week. Joey Cantillo win eight scoreless. Some people watching
25:54
Speaker 6: are asking who Joey Cantillo is. It's it's hard to explain,
25:58
Speaker 6: you know. It's some of it is a guy like
26:01
Speaker 6: Gavin Williams, who's had tantalizing stuff, first round draft pick,
26:05
Speaker 6: top one hunder prospect, like this is what we expected.
26:08
Speaker 6: It just takes young pitchers time to get there sometimes,
26:11
Speaker 6: So there's that. There are guys like Parker Messick who's
26:14
Speaker 6: made six career starts and doesn't know any better. And
26:17
Speaker 6: maybe that blissful ignorance can help you. You know, when
26:21
Speaker 6: you join a team cruising like this and everybody else
26:23
Speaker 6: is pitching really well, you don't want to be the
26:25
Speaker 6: guy that messes that up, right. And then there's one
26:28
Speaker 6: person who I don't know if he gets enough credit.
26:32
Speaker 6: Maybe he does. I probably not, though, And he's overseen
26:36
Speaker 6: five cy young winners. And his name is Carl Willis,
26:39
Speaker 6: and he's the pitching coach, and he's a guy in
26:41
Speaker 6: his mid sixties who has seen some of the best
26:44
Speaker 6: pitchers in the world and has is still like Joey
26:49
Speaker 6: Cantillo goes eight scoreless inning, It's the best start of
26:51
Speaker 6: his life. And Carl Willis is so giddy about it
26:54
Speaker 6: that at one am he's texting Joey Cantillo telling him
26:57
Speaker 6: how proud he is of him. This is a guy
26:59
Speaker 6: who who has helped Felix Hernandez Winnisi Young Awards CC
27:03
Speaker 6: Sabbathia praised Carl Willis all summer when doing interviews about
27:06
Speaker 6: the Hall of Fame. And you know, Willis is just
27:10
Speaker 6: an He's a big reason why Cleveland has had the
27:14
Speaker 6: reputation of boasting that pitching factory for years and years,
27:18
Speaker 6: and he's a big part of why.
27:21
Speaker 4: They could never produce They could never produce any bullpen guys,
27:24
Speaker 4: but man, could they produce some some starters. And now
27:27
Speaker 4: they're producing both and Carl Carl is legit. Is this
27:31
Speaker 4: team set up for the rest of the year to
27:34
Speaker 4: finish this thing up? Are they set up for these
27:37
Speaker 4: last five games to finish this thing out?
27:42
Speaker 6: I think they are. I have no idea what will
27:44
Speaker 6: happen beyond that, because even this has been just ridiculous, right,
27:50
Speaker 6: But they you know they are. I mean, they had
27:53
Speaker 6: I think the weekend helped them a lot. They took
27:55
Speaker 6: three or four in Minnesota. They had a double header
27:58
Speaker 6: where the only relievers they used their doubleheader were two
28:01
Speaker 6: long relievers, like the last guys in the bullpen, and
28:05
Speaker 6: so everybody got a breather. And you if you watch
28:08
Speaker 6: Kate Smith last night, he was one strike away from
28:10
Speaker 6: an immaculate in it. So those guys are well rested.
28:13
Speaker 6: Now the pitchings lined up. You know, if they need
28:16
Speaker 6: Gavin Williams in Game one sixty two, they've got him
28:19
Speaker 6: on regular rest. So yeah, they're in really good position
28:22
Speaker 6: here to win the division or at worst get a
28:25
Speaker 6: wild card. And then who knows. Like I'm I counted
28:29
Speaker 6: them out fifteen times during the regular season, So I've
28:33
Speaker 6: learned my lesson. I'll shut up and I'll just enjoy
28:35
Speaker 6: the ride, Zach.
28:37
Speaker 1: It's a fun ride to follow. Here's my question for you.
28:40
Speaker 1: I know that this team has to be balling on
28:42
Speaker 1: a budget at all times, and they've done a brilliant
28:44
Speaker 1: job of being competitive for a long period of time.
28:48
Speaker 1: Do you think that they should be pushing chips in
28:50
Speaker 1: a little bit more during times like this? Last year
28:52
Speaker 1: they make the ALCS. This year it's a really great story,
28:55
Speaker 1: But does anyone think that they're going to win the
28:57
Speaker 1: World Series with the lineup that they're throwing out there,
29:00
Speaker 1: that they're going to get through all of October and
29:02
Speaker 1: get past everyone else. So my question is when they've
29:05
Speaker 1: been able to build such a brilliant bullpen, right, one
29:08
Speaker 1: of the better bullpens that has been around, you know,
29:11
Speaker 1: in decades. I would say over the last couple of years,
29:14
Speaker 1: have they not capitalized enough by just at least dipping
29:17
Speaker 1: their toes a little bit into the free agent market
29:19
Speaker 1: for some bat help.
29:21
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean in twenty sixteen, they reached the World
29:24
Speaker 6: Series and then they signed Edwin and Carnacio and who's
29:27
Speaker 6: one of the top sluggers on the free agent market.
29:29
Speaker 6: And they came back in twenty seventeen, they won one
29:32
Speaker 6: hundred and two games and they were the World Series
29:34
Speaker 6: favorites and then collapsed in the Alds. That happens, it's baseball, right,
29:38
Speaker 6: They've kind of been scared of their own shadow ever
29:40
Speaker 6: since then. They haven't made moves like that since then,
29:43
Speaker 6: and they're typically in this position where they're a contender.
29:46
Speaker 6: They're usually on top or right near the top of
29:49
Speaker 6: the ale Central and it would take catching lightning in
29:52
Speaker 6: a bottle to win a World Series. It's been seventy
29:54
Speaker 6: seven years since they won a title, right, Like when
29:57
Speaker 6: the Cubs were at this point, it's all anyone would
29:59
Speaker 6: talk about. And I think in Cleveland, you know, there
30:04
Speaker 6: was a lot of frustration, especially once they were forty
30:07
Speaker 6: and forty eight, that they didn't go out and add
30:10
Speaker 6: to a lineup over the winter that everybody could see
30:14
Speaker 6: wasn't good enough last year when they went to the ALCS.
30:17
Speaker 6: So yeah, I think you can compartmentalize and say this
30:20
Speaker 6: is a great run. It's a great story right now.
30:23
Speaker 6: And part of the reason, at least in Cleveland, I
30:26
Speaker 6: don't think many people are moaning about payroll today is
30:30
Speaker 6: because you've resigned yourself to the fact that for five
30:34
Speaker 6: months it looked like this was going to be a
30:36
Speaker 6: rotten season that was going to end in a frustrating fashion.
30:39
Speaker 6: It just so happens that they caught fire and it
30:41
Speaker 6: might not happen that way, And then I'm sure when
30:44
Speaker 6: the season does end, we'll be right back talking about payroll.
30:47
Speaker 6: How you can build off this and not repeating the
30:49
Speaker 6: mistakes you repeated last winter.
30:52
Speaker 3: Oh it looks like right now, if they get into
30:54
Speaker 3: the postseason, they didn't make any mistakes. That's what they'll
30:56
Speaker 3: tell everybody. We can do whatever we want.
30:58
Speaker 4: So that's the thing.
31:00
Speaker 3: The key ingredient to this for the last couple of
31:02
Speaker 3: years from me has been Steven Vote. We had we
31:04
Speaker 3: had Hammy on the other day and I asked him
31:06
Speaker 3: this question, can Steven Vote win back to back American
31:09
Speaker 3: League Manager of the Years and does he deserve to
31:11
Speaker 3: win it? Much like you can make the argument Pat
31:13
Speaker 3: Murphy deserves to win back to back in the nationally.
31:18
Speaker 6: So it's funny. I actually talked to Stephen Vote about
31:20
Speaker 6: this recently. Was it was he was out in public
31:25
Speaker 6: earlier this summer and someone stopped him and recognized him,
31:28
Speaker 6: and they said something along the lines of like, man,
31:31
Speaker 6: I bet you wish it was as easy as it
31:33
Speaker 6: looked last year. And Vote was like, Okay, it wasn't
31:37
Speaker 6: easy last year. I know we won the al Central,
31:39
Speaker 6: I know we reached the ALCS. But he was he
31:42
Speaker 6: was getting his feet wet, he was learning how to
31:44
Speaker 6: do the job. He was learning how to navigate through
31:46
Speaker 6: one hundred and sixty two games with new players and
31:49
Speaker 6: new responsibilities and a new coaching staff and he's the
31:53
Speaker 6: guy in charge. He's the guy that has to answer
31:55
Speaker 6: to everything, and you know, he's stressed like that was
31:58
Speaker 6: not easy. It might have looked like that on the outside,
32:01
Speaker 6: but it wasn't easy. And I think the biggest takeaway
32:04
Speaker 6: is it prepared him for a season like this where
32:08
Speaker 6: they've had so much adversity, losing streaks, the gambling stuff.
32:12
Speaker 6: They traded Shane Bieber, they contemplated trading Stephen Kwan, and
32:16
Speaker 6: he had to keep that clubhouse together and he did it.
32:18
Speaker 6: And he was able to do it because there is
32:21
Speaker 6: that bond there between manager and players that he established
32:25
Speaker 6: last year, and he got to know these guys and
32:27
Speaker 6: they trusted him and they knew he cared about them.
32:30
Speaker 6: And so if you don't have the growing pains and
32:33
Speaker 6: the learning curves that they went through last year that
32:36
Speaker 6: might not have been as visible to the public because
32:38
Speaker 6: they were winning games, you wouldn't have been able to
32:40
Speaker 6: get through what they went through this year. So if
32:43
Speaker 6: you want to vote for him for Manager of the Year,
32:45
Speaker 6: it's probably a good case, right, but you shouldn't be,
32:49
Speaker 6: you know, as we compare the job he's done this
32:51
Speaker 6: year to last year, like it's both had their unique challenges.
32:56
Speaker 6: They're just very different challenges.
32:58
Speaker 3: I asked him when I was their last week, I said, Voter, or,
33:01
Speaker 3: you know, are you gonna win Manager of the Year again?
33:03
Speaker 3: Or I said, what's it feel like to be the
33:05
Speaker 3: manager of the year? And he's like, I'm not manager
33:07
Speaker 3: of the year. I'm like, you're the reigning champ right now,
33:09
Speaker 3: so you have to take it. He's like, Okay, I'll
33:11
Speaker 3: live with that for a couple more weeks. So I think, listen,
33:14
Speaker 3: will he ever say that he would? It means a
33:16
Speaker 3: lot to him, But I feel like this he it
33:20
Speaker 3: would mean a lot for him to do it again,
33:22
Speaker 3: especially with the way this team, what they've been through.
33:24
Speaker 3: Fifteen and a half games back here they are in
33:26
Speaker 3: first place. It's a pretty remarkable story.
33:29
Speaker 6: Yeah it is. I mean, it's it's crazy. We didn't
33:33
Speaker 6: know what to expect. And I know I talked to
33:35
Speaker 6: a lot of guys who played with Voter and they
33:38
Speaker 6: said all the right things. And if you examined his career,
33:40
Speaker 6: the fact that he was DFA, he was traded, he
33:43
Speaker 6: was never a top prospect, like he had a coaching
33:46
Speaker 6: mindset from the very beginning, he was sitting in a ball.
33:48
Speaker 6: He's twenty five years old. He's a backup catcher, and
33:52
Speaker 6: he knew like the odds of him even reaching the
33:54
Speaker 6: major leagues were not great. So he had to figure out, Okay, well,
33:58
Speaker 6: what can I learn? What can I take away from this?
34:00
Speaker 6: And he always wanted to get into coaching anyway, so
34:04
Speaker 6: why not start thinking like a coach when you were
34:06
Speaker 6: in the minor leagues? And oh it just so happened.
34:08
Speaker 6: He turned into a two time All Star, he won
34:10
Speaker 6: a World Series, so he experienced everything, and that allows
34:13
Speaker 6: him to relate to everyone. And I think you've seen
34:16
Speaker 6: that right, Like he knows when to just hand the
34:19
Speaker 6: keys over to Jose Ramirez or Austin Hedges to lead everybody.
34:22
Speaker 6: He knows when he needs to say the right thing
34:25
Speaker 6: to the right person and or empower another coach. And
34:28
Speaker 6: you know they've they've established a good culture here. This
34:30
Speaker 6: season is thrown a lot at them, and I think
34:33
Speaker 6: that's what makes what they've done this month just more incredible.
34:37
Speaker 1: Hey, Zach, awesome having you on here. I didn't even
34:40
Speaker 1: realize it because I feel like I know you, but
34:42
Speaker 1: on here for the first time, So thanks for stopping by.
34:45
Speaker 1: It's very good timing. I know you were like, you
34:47
Speaker 1: know what, I want to wait until the Guardians come
34:49
Speaker 1: back from one of the most improbable deficits of all
34:53
Speaker 1: time to take over first place in the divisions.
34:56
Speaker 3: She wanted it to be too great. Indians birthdays Ben
34:59
Speaker 3: Brossard and John McDonald today.
35:03
Speaker 6: Johnny Max's been around the team the last couple of weeks.
35:06
Speaker 6: He might be the good luck charm. He also he
35:07
Speaker 6: got them the number one pick last year. Remember he
35:09
Speaker 6: was their their rep. So it might be something there.
35:13
Speaker 1: That's right. Yeah, lottery, it's a big deal. You gotta
35:16
Speaker 1: have your uh your good luck charm for the lottery. Zach,
35:19
Speaker 1: thank you so much. This was great. Appreciate the time.
35:22
Speaker 6: You gotta guys stick care