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20 - Losing Yourself in Love Without Containment (with Tobias O'Brien) · Masculine Containment

• 0:00
  Welcome to the Masculine Containment Podcast.
• 0:01
  Today, I am honored to have one of the members of Brotherhood Container No.
• 0:06
  2, Tobias O'Brien.
• 0:07
  He went through the full brotherhood experience and has been generous enough and gracious enough to come today to share his story and to potentially help other men understand masculine containment and what happened in the brotherhood and really just to share openly and transparently and vulnerably.
• 0:24
  Tobias, thank you so much for being here, brother.
• 0:26
  Hey, Alex.
• 0:27
  Pleasure.
• 0:29
  So let's jump in.
• 0:33
  Before the brotherhood, before you joined, what was going on for you, Tobias?
• 0:38
  An uncontained lifestyle.
• 0:41
  An uncontained lifestyle.
• 0:43
  At least, Alex.
• 0:46
  Can you explain a little bit about that?
• 0:48
  Yeah, so explain that to us.
• 0:49
  When you say uncontained lifestyle, tell us what was going on.
• 0:52
  Well, I had grown up in a relationship.
• 0:58
  I was in a relationship from a very young age, from the age of 16.
• 1:05
  And I was in that relationship, stroke marriage, for 22 years, give or take.
• 1:12
  So I lived a routine life and I never grew up.
• 1:19
  I just thought life was life, you know, and that's how it, and that's how it run and that's how it worked and that's how it was programmed.
• 1:28
  And, you know, I was happy in that life because I didn't know, I didn't know anything else.
• 1:36
  I didn't know anything else.
• 1:37
  That was my daily life for my kids.
• 1:38
  So I, you know, I had to grow up very quickly.
• 1:41
  I had to grow up very quickly, but I didn't grow.
• 1:46
  I didn't grow and I was sort of stuck in a,
• 1:49
  In a lifestyle, in a lifestyle.
• 1:54
  And it wasn't until, you know, we split up, I'd say.
• 2:00
  We split up four years ago, you know, nearly four years ago.
• 2:06
  But prior to the breakup of the marriage, it was probably done and dusted four or five years before that.
• 2:16
  So we were just, you know, it was never spoken about, but you just know that, you know, arguments become more frequent, downfalls, breakups, they become more frequent than we came back, you know.
• 2:30
  So I got to a point, you know, after the breakup, after about a year where I met my partner and...
• 2:43
  And then everything then opened up.
• 2:49
  You know, I hadn't, in the relationship prior to that, there was love, but that's all it was.
• 2:58
  You know, the love never got louder, the love never grew, the connection never grew, nothing ever grew because we were, you know, it was just this, you know, I look back at it now and it was a stagnant relationship.
• 3:12
  You know, it was a stagnant relationship.
• 3:14
  It wasn't very intimate.
• 3:16
  It wasn't...
• 3:17
  There wasn't any emotions, loving emotions.
• 3:21
  So then when I get with my partner after that, who was... Who is...
• 3:31
  Very deep.
• 3:33
  Very emotionally available.
• 3:36
  And...
• 3:38
  And a very loving person in every way possible.
• 3:43
  So I'd gone from having a relationship where there was never any emotion, you know.
• 3:48
  I was never cried to, you know, and that's not a weakness.
• 3:53
  That's not, I was never cried to.
• 3:55
  Emotions were never expressed to me in my previous relationship.
• 3:59
  You know, if it was, are you okay?
• 4:01
  Yeah, I'm okay.
• 4:03
  You know, it was a mask and it was a hide.
• 4:05
  So I'd never learned from being a child and then going through a relationship, I'd never learned emotional availability and masculine containership.
• 4:18
  And when...
• 4:21
  You know, we got, we were together for the first year, the honeymoon period, the famous honeymoon period.
• 4:28
  The new relationship?
• 4:29
  Is this the new relationship you're talking about?
• 4:30
  Yeah, sorry.
• 4:31
  Yeah, let's talk about that.
• 4:33
  We were in the honeymoon period and Alex, there were no red flags.
• 4:38
  There were no red flags for 12 months, 13, 14 months.
• 4:43
  There were no red flags either.
• 4:46
  We didn't cross words.
• 4:48
  We didn't argue.
• 4:49
  We didn't, nothing, nothing abruptly in 12, 14 months.
• 4:55
  And then we, you know, we got our place and we moved in together.
• 5:00
  We got a house.
• 5:04
  And then everything opened up.
• 5:08
  the mirror appeared, the triggers appeared.
• 5:10
  To which then, you know, it, it, it carried on.
• 5:18
  It, they wasn't bad things.
• 5:19
  They wasn't bad things.
• 5:20
  They were just arguments and they were this, but then the small arguments would lead into silence.
• 5:28
  no resolve, no.
• 5:30
  And, you know, those small arguments or those small disagreements, let's not use the word arguments, let's use disagreements.
• 5:37
  Let's use that change of narrative, let's use disagreements.
• 5:39
  So them small disagreements were not resolved, or they were resolved but not resolved properly.
• 5:49
  And then, you know, as we know, when the next disagreement comes,
• 5:55
  that's not resolved properly.
• 5:57
  And then we've got two disagreements and it's like a domic, it just keeps, it just keeps going.
• 6:04
  And this, this universe of ours recognizes that it realizes that, that you're not resolving issues.
• 6:14
  So then he sends down more tests.
• 6:19
  He's like, let's send the fishing rod out and let's get a bite.
• 6:22
  And the tests get louder and they get louder.
• 6:24
  And,
• 6:25
  To a point where it goes, it goes bang.
• 6:31
  And not only through that, I wasn't spiritually aware.
• 6:38
  I wasn't awakened.
• 6:39
  I used to be, you know, let's use the word the woo-woo, the woo-woo.
• 6:45
  You know, the woo-woo life.
• 6:48
  The weird life.
• 6:49
  The weird life.
• 6:51
  So I wasn't open to that.
• 6:53
  I wasn't aware of that.
• 6:54
  So that was something else I was learning, along with learning how to love correctly.
• 7:00
  And...
• 7:06
  As I said, the messages and the tests started getting louder.
• 7:10
  And my partner, bless her, you know, she was amazing.
• 7:15
  You know, she was pushing me in the right direction.
• 7:16
  She was encouraging me to do this work because she started this work a long time ago herself.
• 7:22
  You know, she started this work a long time ago herself.
• 7:25
  So she was teaching me.
• 7:27
  But now I look back at it.
• 7:32
  Now we're going through the mud, let's say.
• 7:34
  Now we're going through the mud.
• 7:36
  I look back at it and I look back and think my mind, my subconscious was thinking, she's telling me what to do.
• 7:46
  She's trying to control me, but she wasn't.
• 7:48
  Yeah.
• 7:50
  She was encouraging me to be contained, to be the best person for myself so we can thrive in a relationship.
• 8:00
  And, yeah.
• 8:02
  If I look back, going back to the previous relationship, it was cold.
• 8:08
  It was cold, you know, compared to what I met.
• 8:13
  So I'd never, ever experienced these emotions.
• 8:16
  And then my partner at the time, she's very, very emotionally rare.
• 8:20
  She's, like I said, she's ocean deep and she feels feelings.
• 8:25
  So if she come to me with a feeling, what did I do, Alex?
• 8:29
  Alex.
• 8:33
  Yeah, what we all do when we don't understand.
• 8:35
  I tried to fix and got defensive and it's me.
• 8:41
  What have I done?
• 8:43
  Because I was always, in the previous relationship again, anything –
• 8:49
  My fault, you know?
• 8:51
  Yeah.
• 8:52
  And us as men, you know, what I've learned as well is we carry shame.
• 8:57
  In the new relationship, my partner at the time, she feels everything, you know?
• 9:03
  And it's one of the many things that I love about her.
• 9:08
  She doesn't hide it.
• 9:09
  She doesn't mask it.
• 9:11
  So you see it.
• 9:20
  What I'm used to was somebody hiding their emotions, hiding their triggers, hiding, you know, masking up and everything was okay all the time, you know.
• 9:30
  Yeah.
• 9:31
  And I used to see it and it was, you know, I'd get the blame.
• 9:37
  It was always me.
• 9:38
  You know, it was always me.
• 9:40
  So in the new relationship, I look at it and think, is it me?
• 9:45
  Even though she's showing me the emotions, she's showing me the feelings and she's telling me about the feelings.
• 9:53
  But I was still going back in myself and thinking, what have I done?
• 9:56
  Is it my fault?
• 9:59
  And then what do I do then?
• 10:00
  Shut down.
• 10:02
  I then shut down, which then it just, it creates a wave of hell.
• 10:09
  Yeah.
• 10:10
  It really does.
• 10:11
  It creates a wave of hell.
• 10:13
  And I think then it sort of just kept, we wouldn't bicker, we wouldn't argue, but there's still an unresolved issue.
• 10:30
  And again, she then feels she can't come to me because she feels unsafe.
• 10:40
  Now, using that word unsafe, when she would tell me about her feeling unsafe, I would think, well, is she scared of me?
• 10:49
  I haven't done nothing.
• 10:50
  Is she scared of me?
• 10:52
  And from the previous relationship, Alex, I got accused of, you know, I got accused of a lot.
• 10:59
  It was proven that nothing happened, you know, and it was, you know, it was a...
• 11:04
  But I had to go through a year of being accused of being a woman beater, you know, and that had to sit with me for a year and a half.
• 11:14
  And I was a very respected guy around my area, a very well-known guy.
• 11:19
  I've lived in the same, you know, I've lived in the same area for 38, 39 years of my life.
• 11:24
  So my name got dragged through the mud.
• 11:28
  You know, I was this woman beater.
• 11:32
  And it isn't, and obviously it's 2020.
• 11:36
  It's the year, it's the years that it is now and it's affecting people's lives.
• 11:41
  So I've got a,
• 11:43
  You know, if it's on Facebook, if it's on social media, it must be true.
• 11:49
  It must be true.
• 11:50
  And unfortunately, that's a world we live in at the minute.
• 11:54
  And so I spend, you know, the best part of 12 months proving to people, because I did care what people thought about me, because that's all I'd ever known, proving to people that it's all false.
• 12:11
  You know, it was all false.
• 12:13
  you know, and so again, it's part of that shame wound that I was carrying, you know, and again, my partner at the time, she was saying, she was telling me all about it.
• 12:27
  She was telling me all about it.
• 12:29
  And there's only so much she can teach me and there's only so much she can tell me without draining her cup.
• 12:40
  So she would be shrinking, trying to show me this way of living.
• 12:48
  She's giving everything to me.
• 12:50
  So then I would, you know, again, I would be giving everything back.
• 12:55
  But what are we both doing?
• 12:57
  Forgetting about ourselves.
• 13:00
  Hmm.
• 13:01
  What was that like, Tobias?
• 13:02
  Oh, sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off.
• 13:06
  What was it like the first time that you heard, I don't feel safe?
• 13:14
  Scary.
• 13:16
  Yeah.
• 13:16
  Sorry.
• 13:21
  And it hits me now.
• 13:23
  You know, I'm getting emotional about it now.
• 13:26
  Yeah, I know those emotions.
• 13:27
  It's scary because you have the, you know, I met the most amazing woman, my dream woman, the most amazing woman I could ever dream of meeting, you know.
• 13:47
  she's everything I've ever wished for.
• 13:49
  She's everything I've ever dreamed of.
• 13:50
  And if I could, can you remember weird science?
• 13:55
  Sure.
• 13:56
  Where they made the woman.
• 13:58
  I made the perfect woman.
• 13:59
  Now, if I could have gone on my laptop and created the perfect woman, it's Kate in every way.
• 14:09
  And to be told by her, I don't feel safe.
• 14:15
  It just brought up a lot.
• 14:18
  Well, the worst time of my life.
• 14:21
  Yeah.
• 14:22
  So then I went, I just completely shook down.
• 14:26
  At the time, I didn't realise, Alex, I didn't realise.
• 14:29
  But now, the learning I've done the past four, five, six months, or let's say the last four months, she wasn't scared of me.
• 14:39
  She just felt unsafe.
• 14:41
  Her nervous system felt unsafe.
• 14:44
  And, you know, I know all about nervous system.
• 14:48
  I know all about it now.
• 14:49
  But at the time, I didn't.
• 14:53
  And, you know, we went through a stage last year.
• 14:59
  You know, I put a lot of stress into our relationship last year for a couple of reasons, you know.
• 15:07
  And when I started my journey, let's say...
• 15:14
  July, August last year, it was, you know, it was hard, man.
• 15:24
  It was hard because we sort of went through a period of separation last year for six weeks to work on ourselves.
• 15:34
  But I was...
• 15:39
  subconsciously doing the work for her, working on myself for her, for the relationship.
• 15:46
  For her.
• 15:47
  Not for you.
• 15:48
  For her, not for me.
• 15:51
  You know, I thought I was doing it for me, but energetically, universal law, he knows I'm, you know, I think I'm doing it for myself, but this part of my brain isn't.
• 16:06
  It's doing it for Kate.
• 16:08
  Yeah.
• 16:09
  And, you know, a lesson got thrown down again.
• 16:14
  And I started then, you know, we sort of, we resolved the issue.
• 16:21
  We were working back and we were back in a good place for a couple of months.
• 16:26
  And then,
• 16:28
  You know, we were doing the relationship with very intimate, you know, relationship work, very deep, you know, relationship work, sitting in the uncomfortable, sitting in the mud together.
• 16:40
  And then I got hit again with a lot of chaos.
• 16:46
  You know, we were getting back to our best.
• 16:50
  We were getting back to our best, but I think we were getting comfortable again.
• 16:54
  So he threw us down a test and it was chaos, Alex.
• 16:58
  It was chaos.
• 17:02
  It was coming from all angles.
• 17:04
  Not me.
• 17:05
  Not me.
• 17:05
  It was around me, you know.
• 17:08
  Mm-hmm.
• 17:09
  You know, it was getting, you know, it was getting thrown from every direction.
• 17:16
  I was getting, let's say, peppered with everything.
• 17:19
  So then it interrupted my work, our relationship.
• 17:23
  It was bringing drama to my partner's life.
• 17:27
  And my partner's got, runs a wellness business.
• 17:30
  You know, she's very successful in her business.
• 17:33
  She's very popular in her industry.
• 17:36
  And...
• 17:39
  The last thing she wants to be getting thrown is drama, chaos into her life.
• 17:44
  When she preaches wellness and she does a bloody good job of it as well.
• 17:51
  She's brilliant at what she does.
• 17:55
  So then all this chaos, I dip out of my relationship work.
• 18:01
  I wasn't thinking, well, I've got to stop this now.
• 18:04
  I've got to sort this out.
• 18:06
  It just, I went into fixer mode.
• 18:09
  I went into that, the mode that we're programmed to be in, I went into the mode that I need to sort, I need to sort this.
• 18:16
  I need to sort this out.
• 18:18
  But Alex, that's out of my control.
• 18:23
  That is out of my, what I thought was in my control was out of my control.
• 18:28
  And if it's, if it's out of your control, it's not your problem to sort.
• 18:33
  I know that now.
• 18:35
  I know that.
• 18:37
  And
• 18:40
  Even then, we still worked, you know, we still worked together and we still worked through it when it got louder and louder and louder and it started.
• 18:48
  The cement was burying us, was burying us.
• 18:54
  And neither of us knew what we wanted.
• 19:00
  Then I'm feeling unsafe.
• 19:02
  I don't know I'm feeling unsafe.
• 19:04
  Now I do.
• 19:05
  But now I'm feeling unsafe now.
• 19:08
  Yeah.
• 19:09
  So you've got two partners, both feeling and safe, and we mirror each other in so many ways, in so many ways.
• 19:20
  And whereas my partner, I say she's got 16 personalities.
• 19:30
  I've got just as many, brother.
• 19:32
  I've got just as many, you know.
• 19:35
  So these were conflict, conflict, conflict.
• 19:40
  It was going round and round and round.
• 19:42
  And it got to a point then at the Christmas period last year.
• 19:47
  And we said all year, we promised ourselves we're going to have a good Christmas this year.
• 19:50
  We're going to have a good Christmas.
• 19:53
  And it got to the Christmas period and she just become too overwhelmed, man.
• 19:58
  She's come too overwhelmed.
• 19:59
  And I was watching her.
• 20:00
  I was watching her shrink and shrink and shrink.
• 20:06
  And then, excuse me.
• 20:09
  Yeah.
• 20:13
  I was watching her shrink and shrink and shrink and then she had nothing left.
• 20:21
  She had nothing left.
• 20:22
  And I'm seeing this happening.
• 20:24
  I'm witnessing this happening.
• 20:26
  So what am I doing again?
• 20:27
  I'm trying to fix.
• 20:28
  You're feeling it.
• 20:30
  I'm feeling it.
• 20:32
  Yeah, I'm feeling it, man.
• 20:34
  And...
• 20:40
  we just, we just didn't know what to do.
• 20:42
  We just didn't know what to do.
• 20:43
  And we love each other so much.
• 20:47
  And one doesn't want to lose the other and the other doesn't want to lose the other, but we're losing ourselves.
• 20:53
  And it just got, it just got to a point where another, another bit of chaos come and happened.
• 20:58
  And then another bit.
• 20:59
  And that was it.
• 21:00
  That was the tip of the iceberg.
• 21:01
  That was where we both went.
• 21:04
  We both crashed.
• 21:05
  And because,
• 21:11
  you know, from day one since I met Kate, I was afraid of losing her because, you know, I've seen it, I fell in love with her instantly, you know, and so then that has carried on through our relationship where I've been scared to lose her, you know, because she just
• 21:33
  I've spoken enough in the group about her.
• 21:35
  You know, I've spoken enough, you know, in town about her.
• 21:39
  Everywhere I'll go, you know, because I'm very open, you know.
• 21:42
  I'm very open in... She didn't deserve that, you know.
• 21:48
  It wasn't me being horrible.
• 21:51
  No, it wasn't, you know.
• 21:52
  She didn't deserve me not being contained, you know.
• 21:55
  But unfortunately, there was nothing I didn't know how to be.
• 22:02
  And I saw it as control and I saw it as she wants me to be like this.
• 22:09
  And that's how I'd lived for 20-odd years, you know, not being myself.
• 22:15
  So because of the fear, so I've got the shame, I've got the fear of losing her.
• 22:24
  It just, I just poured everything.
• 22:28
  I just poured everything into her and...
• 22:32
  It got to a point on, you know, Christmas at Boxing Day where enough was enough.
• 22:37
  And we had to come apart to work on ourselves.
• 22:42
  And, you know, it's the hardest thing I've ever, you know, I've ever had to do, man.
• 22:51
  You know, it's hard to let somebody go in the name of love.
• 22:59
  so you can work on yourselves is fucking hard, but it's hard, man.
• 23:06
  And I don't think there's anything, I don't think there's anything that we could compare to this.
• 23:14
  But it's made, you know, I look at it now, I get emotional, I get emotional every day, you know, I cry most days.
• 23:21
  But I look at it, it had to happen because it's made me what I am today.
• 23:29
  you know, and it's allowed her to go inwards even more because we both, we both carry similar childhood.
• 23:39
  We know we both carry similar trauma.
• 23:41
  We both carry similar childhood trauma.
• 23:44
  You know, we've got the same wounds.
• 23:48
  And, and,
• 23:50
  When we had to let each other go in the name of love, the fear's then there again.
• 23:55
  It's there again.
• 23:57
  It's doubled up.
• 23:58
  It's doubled down on me because I'm like, I've lost her now.
• 24:01
  I've had to lose her to find myself.
• 24:04
  And it's been hard.
• 24:09
  It's been hard, man, as you know.
• 24:11
  It's been.
• 24:13
  But it's got me to where I am today.
• 24:18
  And do you know what?
• 24:20
  I'm proud of myself, mate.
• 24:23
  I'm proud of myself.
• 24:25
  Because while I was a very confident person before, and I was a confident person during the relationship,
• 24:31
  with Kate, because I was shrinking, I lost it all, and I fell out of love with myself.
• 24:36
  And one thing that she taught me was, if you can't love yourself, you know, you should love yourself more than your parents, more than your children, more than anything and anybody in this world, because if you can't love yourself correctly, how can you distribute that love?
• 24:52
  And, you know, I always thought it was, I love you, and that's it.
• 24:56
  Yeah.
• 24:57
  Yeah.
• 24:59
  So many of us think that for so long.
• 25:04
  And so the fear had aroused again that I'm never going to get it back.
• 25:10
  And, you know, and, but this has got to happen now.
• 25:15
  This work has to be done.
• 25:17
  And do you know what?
• 25:19
  I'm thankful in a crappy way that it has happened.
• 25:24
  Because, again, I wouldn't have been where I am today.
• 25:27
  I wouldn't have been where I am today.
• 25:31
  I feel the shift.
• 25:32
  Let's talk about that.
• 25:33
  Oh, sorry, Tobias.
• 25:34
  I didn't mean to cut you off.
• 25:36
  No, go on, brother.
• 25:36
  I was just going to say, let's talk about that, like where you are today.
• 25:39
  But if we can lead in with what brought you to the brotherhood?
• 25:44
  Like what – I know you were in the last container, but what was it that got you into that container?
• 25:50
  Can I –
• 25:52
  Kate messaged me.
• 25:53
  Was it her recommendation?
• 25:55
  Yeah, Kate messaged me with your Facebook page.
• 26:00
  And I got onto it and I looked at it and I was like, wow, this is me.
• 26:05
  This is me.
• 26:06
  I think the post that I commented on was –
• 26:11
  somebody had commented, made a post about ADHD and her partner having ADHD, would he be able to come into the container?
• 26:19
  And I learned that I had ADHD two years ago.
• 26:21
  So then I was drawn to it.
• 26:23
  I thought, wow.
• 26:24
  I thought, wow, because that's another thing that I've learned so much about myself in the last couple of years is how my traits, which I know now ADHD have played a part in my life and my relationship.
• 26:39
  and the way I... Relatable.
• 26:41
  It is.
• 26:43
  You know, I have an Instagram folder.
• 26:45
  I've got an ADHD one and an ADHD two and Instagram folders.
• 26:50
  And I look at them and I'm like, it's me.
• 26:54
  It's every single one of them.
• 26:57
  I've not just got this trait or this trait.
• 26:59
  I've got every single one of them.
• 27:02
  Yeah.
• 27:03
  Do you remember when we were in the container and we had, everybody was there and I asked how many of you have been diagnosed with ADHD or Asperger's or autism or any, and like almost every hand went up.
• 27:14
  Every hand went up.
• 27:16
  Yeah.
• 27:17
  It's like all of us were the same.
• 27:18
  You know, everybody's been, has something like that.
• 27:22
  Yeah.
• 27:22
  So it was, you know, it was Kate that recommended you to me.
• 27:25
  And then the first post that I looked at it was that I said, I need to jump in this.
• 27:30
  I need to dive in it head first.
• 27:33
  So tell us a little bit about... Oh, sorry.
• 27:37
  I didn't mean to cut you off again, Tobias.
• 27:39
  One of the best decisions I ever made was jumping into this container at first.
• 27:45
  Tell us about that, Tobias.
• 27:46
  What did you learn?
• 27:49
  First of all, that I'm not alone.
• 27:51
  That I'm not alone because healing's lowly.
• 27:57
  It's a low world and...
• 28:00
  It's a lonely world.
• 28:01
  So when you get put into a container, not only with three, four, four, six people, with 111 men in the same.
• 28:11
  And it's not just where you're not contained in relationships.
• 28:16
  You're not contained for your children.
• 28:17
  You're not contained for your customers.
• 28:19
  You're not contained in your business.
• 28:21
  You're not contained in anything.
• 28:25
  And that's learning that as well as now.
• 28:30
  It's impacted my life so much in a positive way.
• 28:35
  And four months ago, I knew nothing about it.
• 28:40
  I knew nothing about it.
• 28:41
  And what it's done now, it's you, the brotherhood, and...
• 28:50
  the container ship itself has inspired me so much to, to move forward in my life with other, other projects.
• 28:59
  And I'm now training to become a breathwork facilitator and a men's work facilitator because, you know, we don't talk, Alex men don't talk.
• 29:09
  And I've spent a lot of time in, in male retreats, you know, and, and,
• 29:17
  sitting round a campfire with, you know, 10, 11, 12 men who don't get vulnerable, who don't want to be vulnerable, who are doing this for the first time themselves, to listen to them talk, because I'm a talker.
• 29:33
  I don't stop talking, but I was never expressive.
• 29:38
  I was never expressive with my feelings.
• 29:41
  And all I do now, it just...
• 29:45
  It just rolls off.
• 29:47
  You know, it just.
• 29:48
  Tobias, that's so important for a lot of men, feeling your feelings and getting emotional.
• 29:54
  And by the way, I just want to honor you allowing your emotions to come through on this podcast and like not holding anything back.
• 30:01
  You know, what would you say to the man who still says, like, I don't want to be emotional.
• 30:05
  I don't want to share my emotions.
• 30:08
  Get emotional.
• 30:09
  Get emotional, but good.
• 30:10
  Yeah.
• 30:14
  Real men cry.
• 30:16
  Real men cry.
• 30:17
  There's no weakness in crying.
• 30:19
  And I love to see a man cry and get his emotions out.
• 30:27
  Because I think seeing a man getting his emotions out is helping that man to stay and be here.
• 30:39
  Because the reason men disappear is because they've held too much in for so long.
• 30:46
  And this is why I feel it's my calling from what I've learned from you and the guys in the brotherhood and my experiences here and being in the retreats and stuff.
• 30:58
  I feel I need to start giving someone that love back out and distributing my learnings whilst I'm in it.
• 31:05
  You know, it's not something that I'm learning for four years and then I've got a test at the end of it.
• 31:11
  I'm pouring in what I'm...
• 31:15
  injecting into myself.
• 31:16
  So it's coming in and it's going, you know, it's flowing through me.
• 31:19
  And I want that to, I want that to flow to other people.
• 31:22
  And this is what being in this containership and being in this brotherhood has inspired me to do.
• 31:27
  So Tobias, understanding the discipline and the practice of masculine containment and how it really is a practice.
• 31:34
  It's a discipline.
• 31:35
  It's something that we need to learn as men.
• 31:36
  How has that changed things for you?
• 31:41
  Um, um,
• 31:44
  Being able to show up in every aspect, in every practice of the day, you know.
• 31:52
  And I've had to go through a lot, Alex, the past four months.
• 31:56
  It's, you know, it's been heart-wrenching.
• 31:59
  It's been the worst time of my life.
• 32:01
  Yeah, it has.
• 32:02
  It's been the worst time of my life.
• 32:04
  And it's tested me no end.
• 32:08
  It's tested me no end, you know.
• 32:11
  Like I say, I cry most days.
• 32:13
  You know, and having to take a step back and pull away is the hardest, you know, from the person, the person you love.
• 32:22
  Yes, it's the hardest thing I've ever had to do.
• 32:26
  And that in itself has tested me to the limits.
• 32:32
  And what I've learned through the brotherhood and talking to everybody and they're in yourself is,
• 32:39
  It's how to hold.
• 32:40
  It's how to hold.
• 32:41
  And the practices I've learned from yourselves and the practices that I've learned, you know, at my retreats and in my learning, becoming a breathwork facilitator.
• 32:50
  I know now that these things work.
• 32:54
  These things work.
• 32:55
  And my partner, at the time when we were going through all this stuff, would say, you know, try this, try that.
• 33:03
  But I just wasn't trying.
• 33:04
  I wasn't trying hard.
• 33:05
  Well, I was.
• 33:06
  I was trying, but it just, everything else that was going on around me was just, you know, it was like a block.
• 33:12
  It was like a constant, a rumble strip, a speed bump all the time.
• 33:16
  And it was just slowing me down and slowing me down.
• 33:18
  But this, it's a priority now.
• 33:23
  Containership, nervous system regulation, it is a priority.
• 33:28
  You know, I wake up in the morning, 10 minutes of breath work,
• 33:33
  You know, whereas before, you know, a lot of us have been guilty of it in the past is you turn over and you're scrolling.
• 33:42
  You scroll your phone and you scroll your phone.
• 33:45
  And, you know, on those phones, what's the first thing you'll see?
• 33:49
  You'll see drama.
• 33:50
  You go onto Facebook or you'll see some news or you'll see something.
• 33:53
  You'll see something and then that's then...
• 33:58
  That's your day.
• 33:59
  Your day is based around that first five minutes on your phone.
• 34:02
  Now, if you're doing that and you're not regulating yourself and you're not sitting in neutral and getting yourself prepared for the day properly, getting hydrated, doing your breath work in the morning, it's not good.
• 34:17
  And even if you wake up in the morning and you feel okay, you still have to do your breath work.
• 34:23
  And I, you have to do it.
• 34:27
  And I, I'm a very anxious person now.
• 34:33
  I never was, well, I didn't know what anxiety was before.
• 34:37
  But obviously with everything I've been going through and the fear of the unknown, it's, I've got a lot of pent up anxiety.
• 34:45
  So where I used to think it was butterflies in my stomach, it's not, it's anxiety.
• 34:50
  And yeah.
• 34:52
  And I'm sacral.
• 34:55
  I am.
• 34:56
  So, which is another thing I learned through a rite of passage that I've been on a couple of times.
• 35:02
  I'm sacral in my human design.
• 35:04
  I'm sacral.
• 35:05
  And I feel everything.
• 35:08
  In my gut.
• 35:08
  I feel everything in my gut.
• 35:10
  Well, I used to think it was butterflies in your stomach, but it's not.
• 35:13
  It's anxiety, and I have it every day, all day, every day.
• 35:17
  So I have to do these.
• 35:18
  I have to do these practices all day, every day, Alex, whether it be for a minute, whether it be for two minutes, whether I'll just go and hide for 10 minutes.
• 35:26
  I have to do it, and it works.
• 35:29
  Yeah.
• 35:30
  You know, it works.
• 35:31
  Tobias, oh, sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off.
• 35:34
  No, no.
• 35:34
  I just had another question.
• 35:37
  So you said that this last four months has been the hardest four months of your life.
• 35:44
  Can you share what it meant to you or how it helped you to be in a brotherhood of other men who are sharing what's going on for them?
• 35:57
  It helps you out of the cocoon that you think you're in.
• 36:01
  You think, I thought I was in a cocoon that...
• 36:06
  was never going to open, which was never going to allow me to fly and never going to allow me to flourish.
• 36:12
  But it's not true.
• 36:15
  It's not true.
• 36:16
  This brotherhood means it's – I've embodied this brotherhood now and embodiment was something I never knew about or knew of or – excuse me, fine, fine.
• 36:31
  The new of.
• 36:37
  I thought the word embodiment meant just learning something and, you know, you learn it one day and you, and then it's all right.
• 36:47
  You've got it.
• 36:47
  You've learned it.
• 36:48
  It's in your scrapbook and you've got it for life there, but embodying something, you feel it, you know, you feel it.
• 36:55
  And it's part of me now.
• 37:00
  It's part of me.
• 37:01
  And the biggest thing that I've learned, Alex is,
• 37:06
  This is for life now.
• 37:09
  This is a job.
• 37:11
  You know, this is a job.
• 37:12
  It doesn't stop.
• 37:13
  It doesn't stop because the minute you stop, the minute you lose containership, and the minute we start, and then that's when we start getting thrown down tests again all the time.
• 37:22
  So this has to be embodied.
• 37:25
  And I don't feel right if I haven't done these practices.
• 37:30
  If I miss a practice...
• 37:35
  you know, my evening breath work, or if I've fallen asleep early and haven't done my breath work, I feel that I haven't done it.
• 37:42
  And this is where now I feel the shift, and I'm feeling the shift, and I'm embodying myself, and, you know, I feel now that this work is being done for me.
• 37:57
  I'm doing it for myself.
• 38:00
  Finally, I can feel that I'm doing it for myself and not everybody else.
• 38:04
  And my, you know, my cup is full again.
• 38:10
  Tobias, just so that we can kind of let listeners know where you are, because we opened the story, where are you and Kate now?
• 38:18
  We're still separated, you know.
• 38:21
  We're still, you know, we're in a period of no contact, which, you know, again, is hard.
• 38:26
  You know, it's hard.
• 38:27
  We're separated and it's, we're just trusting the process, Alex.
• 38:35
  But energetically, you know, energetically, you know, you feel the energies, Alex, you know, you feel the energies.
• 38:45
  And it's, look, it's nobody knows what's going to happen.
• 38:50
  Nobody knows what's going to happen.
• 38:53
  But as long as I know that I'm doing this work and I, again, embodied this work, it doesn't matter how life goes.
• 39:02
  I've still got me.
• 39:02
  Yeah.
• 39:04
  You know, I've got me now.
• 39:06
  I've got me and I've got everything around me.
• 39:12
  And you know, the universe works in wonderful ways.
• 39:18
  And
• 39:20
  You know, I'm sure whatever happens, whatever decision the universe makes, it'll be the right one.
• 39:26
  It'll be the right one.
• 39:27
  Yeah.
• 39:28
  You know, and, you know, I'm thankful, you know, it's rubbish that you have to go through this.
• 39:36
  But I'm thankful, you know, I'm thankful that it happened.
• 39:40
  I'm thankful that it happened.
• 39:44
  Every transition, every challenge is an opportunity.
• 39:46
  Yeah.
• 39:48
  And Tobias, like, thanks for sharing where you are, but also for sharing that you've got you.
• 39:54
  Because I think so many of us as men, when we have a challenge in a relationship, we collapse into that challenge and we forget about ourselves.
• 40:00
  But when you reconnect with yourself, it really is everything, isn't it?
• 40:03
  Yeah.
• 40:04
  Yeah.
• 40:06
  Yeah.
• 40:06
  It's.
• 40:07
  So if there's someone out there who's listening and they're considering joining the brotherhood, like, if you could talk to that man directly, what would you say?
• 40:15
  Yeah.
• 40:18
  To get open, to get vulnerable, because no one's judging.
• 40:27
  No one's judging.
• 40:29
  We've all got a story.
• 40:31
  And your story, your past, your habits, your bad habits, will teach somebody else.
• 40:43
  Don't look at it.
• 40:46
  Don't look at your bad habits.
• 40:47
  Don't look at your unhealed life as a problem.
• 40:52
  Use it as something, as a tool, to help the next person that you speak to.
• 41:00
  Turn everything negative into a positive, and that positive will always be helping somebody else.
• 41:07
  Hmm.
• 41:08
  Tobias, I feel like you've done that here today, brother.
• 41:10
  I can't thank you enough for coming on the podcast.
• 41:12
  It's an absolute pleasure, brother.
• 41:13
  It's an absolute pleasure.
• 41:14
  It's, it's part, it's, it, this, this is healing, Alex.
• 41:18
  This is healing.
• 41:19
  I'm healing right now talking to you, you know, totally.
• 41:23
  Where else can I get this?
• 41:25
  You know, where else can I get this?
• 41:29
  Well, Tobias, I don't think you're the only one healing.
• 41:31
  I think the men that are going to listen to this will see themselves in your story.
• 41:36
  They will heal along with you.
• 41:38
  Brother, you've been so inspirational throughout the course of the container and afterwards.
• 41:42
  And thank you for being here.
• 41:44
  And for anyone who's listening.
• 41:46
  Oh, my pleasure, Tobias.
• 41:49
  And for anyone who's listening and relates to Tobias' story and has felt that level of challenge and fear and frustration and losing yourself in life, go to thebrotherhoodsociety.com.
• 42:01
  We actually have a container that's starting on May 1st.
• 42:05
  And if you missed that one, join the wait list and make sure you get into the next one.
• 42:08
  And you'll be on our mailing list if you put your information into one of the forums.
• 42:12
  And we'd love to connect with you.
• 42:13
  And Tobias, brother, thank you so much again.
• 42:17
  And thank you for sharing your story.
• 42:19
  It's inspirational, brother.
• 42:20
  Thank you, brother.
• 42:21
  Thank you.
• 42:21
  It's been a pleasure.
• 42:24
  All right.
• 42:24
  We'll see you soon.
• 42:25
  See you soon.