Latest / Carne Cruda Podcast / Derroteros: La Nostalgia, con Inés García y Paula Ducay, PUNZADAS (CARNE CRUDA EXTRA)

Transcript

Derroteros: La Nostalgia, con Inés García y Paula Ducay, PUNZADAS (CARNE CRUDA EXTRA) · Carne Cruda Podcast

0:06
Goodbye goes the same course. Stick it well on the way medium taken to
0:12
get to the end, proposed set of data that indicate the way to get
0:17
to a place. But that we leave direction that is given in writing for
0:21
Mary German journey in the end of a book that contains a defeat. Then
0:26
a line marked on the tidal map to guide the pilots in rotation or course.
0:36
Don' t stop otel courses two think walking with Ides García and Paula
0:43
Ducai, punctures that give us punctures in thread. That' s what good
0:50
tongues say. That' s right, that' s right. How you
0:52
are Inés Paula Well surviving the spring that puts us yes a little, affected
0:57
by the polini- affected pollents, by the marileño these days is being Saint
1:00
Isidro and there are nostalgic hordes. Yeah, that way, okay. In
1:07
fact, today I think you want to talk about nostalgia, well, and
1:11
melancholy. And of melancholy, which are not the same thing, They are
1:12
not the same thing that I wanted to lend a stroll for these two concepts
1:17
that in recent years have taken on a lot of importance in the collective imaginary
1:21
and in our political life. Nostalgia and melancholy, because if we are a
1:25
little bit attentive, we will see that these ideas surround us very much,
1:29
even sometimes they mark the compass of the political current. For example, this
1:32
week' s news. The headline is El Diario is the PEPE supports the
1:36
Box proposal for the Balearic government to contribute to the prevention of divorces. We
1:40
' ve read it. We' ve read it. We must return to
1:42
the traditional family, to the family that is not broken and to the family
1:45
that remains united, even if it is the force. I figured you'
1:48
d read it for anything. But indeed, a number of measures are apparently
1:52
to be taken to help marriages and couples overcome crises and avoid divorces. I
1:57
' m sorry, but this is the cocky smile, then it doesn'
2:00
t make fun, but at the same time it makes fun because I think
2:01
it' s the course to overcome a crisis, as I imagine, a
2:07
leaflet in plan with ten steps to overcome this crisis. Communicate better with your
2:08
partner and what I know. This has been very well defined by a chateau
2:12
of the chain being that it has called sacristy coaching A very good, very
2:16
good to me indeed, for we can call it that. Without a doubt,
2:21
the part that doesn' t make so much fun is that pregnant women
2:23
are going to be given information against abortion and that Mr De Box who qualifies
2:29
abortion as the leading cause of death. Here people are already inventing themselves as
2:30
the epistemic framework directly to measure things. It' s amazing. And all
2:36
this, then, leads us to what you want to legislate with this family
2:38
perspective. That legislating with a family perspective might be very good if that concept
2:44
of family did not refer to a certain idea of a traditional family, as
2:46
Javier Anchorada said in the past, we could say that these measures and proposals
2:52
use nostalgia a great deal politically and then we will explain the theory around this
2:55
a little bit. So we wanted to ask you today, Javier, if
3:00
you' re lancho. In principle. I don' t think so,
3:02
but sometimes I have certain splin attacks as the 19th- century bohemians said.
3:07
I don' t have this moment of decay. I usually have a frantic
3:12
activity, but from time to time I let myself be abandoned by melancholy.
3:16
Melancholy. If you' re there as if you' re lying, well,
3:22
we wanted to make this distinction of nostalgia and melancholy to begin with,
3:24
so that everyone has a good clear nuance that differentiates these two words that are
3:28
synonymous. But rae defines nostalgia as the pain of being absent from the homeland
3:32
or from the bereaved or friends, and melancholy defines it as a sadness,
3:37
vague, profound, permanent that is born of physical or moral causes and that
3:40
makes those who suffer it find no taste or fun in anything. Come on,
3:46
they' re sad, the melancholy and the good driver, but this
3:50
doesn' t, no, it doesn' t have to always be like
3:52
this. No, no, no, no, they' re always sad.
3:53
There are melancholics that can become very energetic and choleric. Yes, we
3:58
' re going to talk to you today, not about the liabilities, but
4:01
about the ones I carry in melancholy as a flag. By the way I
4:03
have remembered talking about this if I am a melancholy, that what I have
4:06
in my wallpaper is the young decadent of Ramón Casas. I don' t
4:13
know if you know the painting, which is beautiful. Well, that'
4:15
s why, well, you both look great young represents a lot of that
4:20
splint that melancholy that sometimes I feel because today we wanted to talk. In
4:23
fact, most of the episode is vertebrated with this book that just came out
4:27
and that we have read is called the lost time of Clara Ramas, which
4:30
is edited in the ARPA publishing house. And well, Clara Ramas is a
4:34
philosopher professor of the Complutense and also participated when she had a place in the
4:40
Assembly of Madrid, and she says that more and more people are fighting with
4:44
the present, and this makes many people decide to take refuge in a golden
4:48
age, which is a concept that covers the whole book. In a wasted
4:50
time. According to Clara Ramas, this golden age can adopt different names,
4:56
be it tradition, family, transition or even laurs no, because we already
5:00
see that this goes through seemingly contradictory or different ideologies. Then the whole book
5:04
reflects on this need for return, return home or return to that lost time.
5:11
To explain all this, Ramas defines something like a poverty that is peculiar
5:15
and that crosses us today. And it' s peculiar because it' s
5:20
not a poverty of objects, which is what perhaps brings us the name of
5:25
poverty more directly, and for that it resorts to a text by Walter Benjaming
5:29
who wrote about the poverty of experience suffered by the young people who participated in
5:33
World War I and said that many of them encountered a new barbarism, a
5:38
mutism close to death, when not death itself and clear. Rama chooses this
5:42
text to relate it to our actuality and says that our actuality no longer has
5:46
to do with the reality that existed in World War I, but more with
5:49
abundance, the triumph of science, technology, connectivity. There' s no
5:55
place in the world that we haven' t laid waste. We can almost
5:59
find a poverty that has more to do with the ecological crisis, capitalism,
6:01
the financial crisis or even geopolitical instability. So, the difference she points out
6:06
is that it' s not that the experience is poor, but that we
6:12
may even face a cancellation of the experience. It is what tells us to
6:15
declare branches with what this cancellation has to do with experience, because the first
6:18
of all and most important, with the cancellation of the future that we already
6:21
speak in other directions through the Garcese navy, of the promise and that it
6:25
seems that we can no longer make promises to the future, because we have
6:29
this absence of desirable prospects for the future and this generates a great discomfort.
6:32
Moreover, and this seems very interesting to me that it defines it clearly branches
6:36
as everything happens too fast, that is, that we can hardly understand what
6:41
is happening, because when we stop to think or reflect or inform ourselves about
6:45
something, something else has happened, this thing that there is no time to
6:48
think. And it' s also not easy to know the world we live
6:54
in that every time, due to the connectivity I said before, that'
6:57
s bigger and more complex. And besides, we have these many times in
7:00
ons making of absence of great codes, of alternative certainties. Of course,
7:03
since we have this opulence of experience or of stimuli, we actually, of
7:10
course, eventually do totally impoverished aythos and actually anesthetized. It is that that
7:16
brings us a complete flaw and says clearly Ramas that it is to give rise
7:21
to speeches that have to do precisely with what we wanted to comment today,
7:25
with the melancholy and the nostalgia of a past that was supposedly better. I
7:29
' m going to read a date. It says we are the ironic,
7:32
the unbelievers, the disenchanted, the cynical. We' re the ones who
7:35
just look out the rearview mirror backwards. We are the evenings, those who
7:40
arrive at the end of the day, those who have already exhausted the forces
7:43
of youth, those who left behind the thriving aurora. We are crepuscular,
7:46
which is an idea that also covers the whole book, this idea of the
7:49
twilight tonality and the end of an end of epoch yes, and an end
7:54
of epoch that sees no time behind, of course is the absence of future.
7:58
Don' t apologize. I want to say pleasantly We wanted to talk
8:03
now about a book that was published in Alphadeca and that is entitled The hours
8:07
have lost their clock the policies of nostalgia a little to start with this part
8:11
of nostalgia, then see the melancholy that is of Grafthton Tanner, who is
8:16
an American writer and who explains a little that yearning for the past. This
8:20
nostalgia we are talking about is an emotion that is characteristic of our time,
8:24
because we are always trying to return to the times before, where apparently everything
8:28
was simpler and much less unstable that is present in the one we live in,
8:33
as you have mentioned, where there are a lot of stimuli and a
8:35
lot of opulence in this sense, and he says that Johannes Hoffer, a
8:41
Swiss medical student, coined the term nostalgia at the end of the seventeenth century
8:45
to refer to what he called a pathologically intense longing for the homeland. That
8:48
is, he considered nostalgia to be a disease, but as he saw that
8:52
he had no cure anywhere, he gradually assimilated himself as another emotion among many
8:56
others. And there is no consensus in defining it or categorizing it as linked
9:03
to disease, even if it is obviously despatologized, because everyone can say that
9:07
we feel nostalgia at certain times and that does not mean that we are sick,
9:11
and it is curious that in the 20th century nostalgia begins to be used
9:15
by companies and marketing advertising here always taking the emotions and transforming them and using
9:20
them, of course, because it was fixed that it was very effective when
9:22
selling products and in all marketing campaigns were articulated many times around nostalgia. It
9:28
is also, of course, used by politicians who use the past to form
9:33
their electoral programmes. This will then be discussed more extensively and the cultural industry,
9:39
which also uses a lot of nostalgia to sell its products and market them.
9:43
Let' s say, and beyond this use, this nostalgic explosion has
9:48
a lot to do with the suffering of many people with respect to the future,
9:50
which we said is getting darker and darker or that we even conceive that
9:54
there is no desirable future and says taner. Many commit themselves to nostalgia to
9:58
weather the temporal present, while powerful elites exploit it for their own benefit.
10:03
So we could say that we didn' t choose her. In this sense,
10:05
they play two levels, in the suffering of people and in the use
10:09
given to them by political, commercial, etc elites who exploit it and who
10:13
exploit us also through that nostalgia. Yes, justly, and nostalgia, evidently,
10:20
is very present in our daily lives. We can track their journey a
10:26
little, for example, when we listen to music, when we watch certain
10:30
movies or remember a certain past appears nostalgia is activated, a desire to return
10:35
to an instant that you are remembering or remembering. And this is where a
10:37
kind of idealization of memories or a distorted image of the past can take place,
10:41
because it usually happens that we remember the good moments and forget that in
10:46
those past times dark things also appeared, we had particular sufferings, that happen
10:52
to us, things that later forget us and we think, for example,
10:54
in childhood many times as a place, as luminous and without suffering. Obviously,
10:58
yes. In fact, I believe that many of the authors we have
11:01
read to prepare this course agree here that nostalgia is not intrinsically bad and that
11:07
you can remember something and that you nostalgia, but the problem often comes when
11:11
you say I want to go back there, forgetting just what Paula said not
11:15
and idealizing that circumstance, which would surely also be crossed by unpleasant things.
11:20
But that desire to return is where something that can be dangerous often comes in.
11:24
Yes, and it also points out that sometimes it happens with this idea
11:28
that we believed that in the past we had everything much more controlled and in
11:31
the present we have lost control, but simply because in the present we are
11:35
dealing with the stimuli of the present. So there' s some kind of
11:37
illusion that the past was more controlled when it wasn' t. All these
11:41
ideas would be perfectly seen to describe fair to very airy and good. If
11:46
you watch carefully, you can get in there in a good garden. It
11:50
' s underneath this person all the time from Clara Ramas' book. In
11:54
fact, fair dates directly and I, when I read it, thought everything.
11:58
I was thinking when they made him name him when he was going to
12:01
name him. For me there was all the time that speech that I already
12:03
inaugurated there yes, of a nostalgia of an absolutely idealized past in which everything
12:07
was effectively controlled, as you said, in which there were no shadows or
12:13
those shadows were actually idyllic, they were beautiful, of course, they were
12:18
poetic, they were bucolic. Yeah, yeah. In fact, Tanner defines
12:20
this a little bit as a siren song of nostalgia and says that that siren
12:24
song can captivate us and drag us into some sort of perdition in that sense.
12:30
Of course, twilight times are very dangerous in that sense. Totally and
12:33
also for talking about things that we have very close. The theme of the
12:37
nostologia looks very good in the remakes of the films and the series big film
12:41
franchises, such as Marvel, dec Star Wars, Star Trek, which now
12:46
come back with the backing of great studios and a lot of money, they
12:50
launch new deliveries of these well- known sagas, because they know that the
12:54
nostalgia factor works in the spectators that returning to the cinema to watch these films
12:58
is to return to a childhood, a youth, because as we said it
13:03
is probably idealized and even in original series that have been very successful, such
13:07
as, for example, Stranger Things, one sees a return to the nostalgia
13:11
of the seventies and eighties and all those, because I do not know aparatitos
13:16
and music and clothes and aesthetics of those years, that also like they appeal
13:18
to the spectator. In this way, we can also think of the reunions
13:22
of actors from series that have marked epochs in the lives of many people,
13:26
like, for example, Friends, who sold out as a great thing and
13:28
then you see it and like that in part it' s kind of worth
13:31
a bit. I don' t know I saw it and I said well,
13:33
if these gentlemen are getting together here to talk, but when they were
13:37
young, of course when they were young, that' s fine, but
13:41
good and that we do for that thing like trying to go back to the
13:45
past, like the moment that that series came out or whatever it was when
13:48
they were young, when there' s the mistake, like trying to create
13:50
a pastiche that it' s still the same. Now we' re not
13:52
gonna do it to you like renovated. Actually, of course it' s
13:54
not the same thing. But also there in the frend reunion came out,
13:58
because in the light that they were actually having a terrible time while recording the
14:01
series. Don' t mean it' s good that everything' s always
14:05
underneath. The bad things are that we live in a time that we could
14:09
define as downing val yes total. In fact, the music passes also takes
14:11
many sounds from the eighties. The aesthetics themselves, the group meeting also to
14:18
celebrate his thirty years and that famous album, his twenty years since they made
14:24
it clear all the time. We are returning to those groups that we liked
14:28
when we were fifteen, twenty, twenty- five years old, because we
14:35
are trying to recover the total lost youth. In fact, one of the
14:35
things that is named a lot and in fact, clear Ramas also does is
14:39
theirs. I went to GeV which was a whole industry, almost in Spain,
14:43
of festivals, performances, a lot of books, of cultural products,
14:48
that was all using that nostalgia, of that educational time that was very successful
14:54
in the midst of people. A lot of things were sold. Someone makes
14:56
a lot of money, of course, makes a lot of money, and
15:01
the policy that is created around the phrase of any past was better. It
15:05
is very dangerous, because indeed, there they have been pecking fascism no doubt.
15:11
And finally, with the theme of this series and remakes, we think
15:13
that perhaps another example could be the fact of seeing recurrently certain series that become
15:16
as comfortable and safe places. I think, for example, in Gill More
15:24
Girls, that every fall, like there' s some kind of movement to
15:26
come, we' re going to watch the series again, that it'
15:30
s one thing you get a good tuteo your coffee, rather for Gillmorgeals and
15:33
you see it there with a currucated blanket that, in itself, has nothing
15:35
wrong. You can' t do that and it can be great. But
15:37
maybe there' s also a nostalgic factor that' s operating like a movie
15:39
and that Christmas thing, which are two girls who change their homes and fall
15:43
in love with each other. What' s the name of this. Yeah,
15:45
today is Fin the Holy Day. I don' t love gabo holo
15:48
fuk Sol and we see all the materials, but Judlow comes out very young.
15:52
Therefore, it is justified, that is, the Summit of cinematographic and
15:56
television Nostalgia is to see at Christmas that you see to live clear also yes,
16:03
yes, yes, good and again maybe and we also wanted to bring
16:07
or Fernando Broncano, who is already almost our philosopher of confidence in courses,
16:11
because we bring him always and has a text in the Daily Leap that is
16:15
called utopia, nostalgia and hope, which is very interesting and I recommend it
16:17
a lot. We brought only a few brushstrokes, but he says that nostalgia
16:21
seems to have replaced hope as a proactive political emotion, because here we were
16:26
commenting nostalgic things that good, cultural products and maybe they don' t have
16:30
to be intrinsically bad. But of course we also have to see it as
16:32
the political part. One thing is separate aesthetics and another is that political part.
16:34
And this is where the problems for broncarno may not arise. In fact,
16:38
nostalgia is an emotional state rather than an emotion, so it lasts longer
16:41
in the time that it can stay with us or even form the look of
16:47
many people. And for him it has to do with the vulnerability and sense
16:51
of loss of future that we have been commenting on then. Nostalgia, in
16:55
addition to this sense of loss of future. Moreover, and I think this
16:57
is fundamental, it produces myopia with regard to the possibilities of the present,
17:02
that is, by focusing so much on the past. It is not only
17:03
that it no longer exists in the future, but also in the present.
17:07
You are all the time like inhabiting another place, and Broncano says, ends
17:11
up damaging not only the imagination, but the simple common sense in which hope,
17:15
both collectively and personally, is a way of highlighting possible trajectories that otherwise
17:18
would be lost in the noise. Of course, here we could find as
17:26
a contrast between nostalgia and hope, that hope always has a margin of action,
17:30
while nostalgia seems immobilizing because it always tends as backwards. I think it
17:33
' s very smart and very necessary. That counterposition that makes Broncar yes completely
17:38
and again clarifying branches and his book lost time, she focuses more on melancholy
17:41
and we have collected a little bit of small definitions that is giving many throughout
17:45
the text. For example, he looks at a loved object that feels lost
17:51
or in danger of getting lost. It' s also a peculiar look at
17:56
the lost. It is not knowing how to lose, It is a relationship
17:59
of impotence with grief, it is an attitude regarding the lost, because she
18:03
dialogues a lot with this idea that I have commented before, that in reality
18:07
it is not knowing how to lose. This fact that you can feel nostalgia
18:07
as one thing, but you can assume that it is no longer going to
18:11
be, that it is no longer simply no, and there are many people
18:14
who get caught up in this and that' s why it defines it as
18:18
relating to not knowing how to lose their proposal is that today we find many
18:21
people. In fact, it puts it a little between the thirty and seventy
18:22
years, that so generationally, with these labels that we have put that are
18:26
always like very controversial. Well, the millennials and boomers aren' t us.
18:32
I am zeta you are, I think, and you too are careful,
18:36
you are at the limit of the millennis. I' m in limbo
18:37
of course, I' m not late millennial, but I' m not
18:41
boomer, you' re thinking man you' re my lenial. I am
18:44
not generation ex clear generation, which is the above just to millennial There may
18:49
not be as many as labels around generation X. I feel like boomers are
18:53
defined by a certain I don' t know things about Boomers and then millennials,
18:57
but the Xs like the same as clearing it. Yeah,' cause
19:03
mine' s like the tiktok. And all that I say you catch me
19:07
as old or uncle tiktok. We get caught old old tiktok. We neither
19:11
have nor are supposed to be a heonist youth nor ready, the youth of
19:15
the brunch. Of course not, then, a bit untapped who lived a
19:21
bit on the sidelines and in his air without worrying too much about the future
19:26
as a kind of punk. Quiet quiet pum also well thrown, thrown,
19:33
yes, well, as we said before on your wallpaper. No yes,
19:36
indeed, as of the young decadent. Yes, you see, then clear
19:41
branches. He calls all these people the new melancholy, looking for the lost
19:44
object. And well, we highly recommend reading the book, because jo to
19:48
me it seemed like a super accurate analysis that has helped me a lot as
19:51
to understand my own political relevance of this book and let' s summarize it
19:55
a little bit. But the arguments for us to understand what we are saying
19:57
that these people could say before we had a united Spain, we lived better
20:03
before, our parents lived better than we did, since we named anairisi before
20:07
amount. Well, it was kind of the one that carried out this whole
20:11
delusional thing about the Thermomix and that his grandparents had thermomixito this thing that I
20:15
did find in Hostia. I think of my grandparents not and well no,
20:21
and we were just dredging all of us yes, yes, at festivals,
20:25
yes, yes, yes, knowing who we are or where we were.
20:26
Yeah, and we' re eating guacato toast. I don' t think
20:29
you' ve touched anything like that, probably in a posh neighborhood in central
20:33
Madrid in bad times. Yeah, I just did. And then this on
20:36
the side may give you some ideology, but it also attacks the left.
20:38
With these ideas of the left it has become wake and postmodern, not that
20:42
it is the whole issue of ideology, to want the erasure of women by
20:45
the exclusionary feminism, which also dedicates to clarifying branches a very very interesting analysis.
20:51
To what Nostalgia applies in this as that schism of feminism, which is
20:56
also very generational. Then she says that melancholy is said in many ways.
21:00
It' s coming up here. Assume philosophy, Asoma much philosophy in the
21:04
book La Patita when it says this and in the part that explains who are
21:08
nostalgic, Well, we will not explain each of them, but for you
21:12
to understand a little where it goes, it says that nostalgics can be both
21:18
left and right. That is, we cannot necessarily apply it to Nostalgia simply
21:23
to the right, because she says there is a traditional conservative right that also
21:26
enters the nostalgic group, but also some former representatives of Social Democracy and Progressiveism,
21:32
which she just mentioned inés of the feminist movement and, of course,
21:34
the new Old Right alternative rights. And the reddish ones, which is a
21:41
word that makes me a little funny. The truth is that the reddish-
21:45
browns are this left that is placed a little in between, which is not
21:48
known very well, yes, it is clearly known yes, but they pretend
21:52
that they do not. Yeah. Well, in fact, remember a little
21:55
bit and this is controversial to say in national socialisms, that is, they
21:59
come from that socialist left, very socialist, but the national is the root.
22:03
It is precisely the nostalgia of the homeland. It is what will save
22:07
us from this uninhabitable present and the absence of a future. Identity conforms to
22:11
all those traditional things and in the face of globalization, the local, yes,
22:18
and return to the lost homeland, clear and to the past progress,
22:22
of course, yes. And it is also very interesting what Paula said about
22:23
progressism, because on the left perhaps sometimes it seems that it does not attack
22:27
so much nostalgia and I liked very much that it created branches in the book
22:33
Defines a thing that is also very generational, which is this difference between the
22:34
left of the class struggle and trade unionism and all these more traditional positions and
22:41
what is now called with identities, as the left has fragmented into identities,
22:45
that here comes much criticism, quiid ideology and all these things. And we
22:48
saw him very much reading Nier No and Eduard Luis, who are two French
22:52
people with a very similar history, but separated by several generations. She could
22:56
be her grandmother, yes, and she operates in the dynamics of class struggle
23:00
and dominated and dominant, while already in Eduard Luis you see all this of
23:03
the identity quer and all this left as better than the generational difference. Then
23:11
they get along, yeah,' cause we' re better, those two.
23:15
Okay. This debate was very much at the table with Daniel Bernavera'
23:19
s book the trap of diversity, and there is an answer to Bernabe who
23:26
said that the struggle was breaking up in the struggles of the left, in
23:30
identities, something that Sisek also spoke about against tolerance, very controversial title for
23:37
a very interesting essay, and he was told that it is good that the
23:42
class struggle goes through all those struggles, just as feminism goes through all those
23:45
differences, diversities and vulnerabilities. I mean, it' s not just that
23:52
we' re dealing with racialized people, it' s not that we'
23:56
re just dealing with women or migrants. It is that the class struggle,
24:00
all these classes declassified in different measures aspects and that the class look is fundamental.
24:07
We also talked about another course of liberal feminism and class- eyed feminism
24:10
that appeals to all that. Yes, just, then, precisely branches like
24:14
that she proposes, that we must go beyond these traditional categories of left and
24:18
right when it comes to thinking about these nostalgic and melancholic ones, because all
24:22
of them have in common to be the reaction to a present that seems to
24:27
be outcast and have the need to find a kind of soil that they usually
24:32
find in the past, as we have said, because they always have the
24:34
same argument. Come wherever it comes from. The premise is that we live
24:37
in an age of degradation and loss, and the conclusion is that we must
24:41
reconquer paradise, the lost object that would be that lost past. One thing
24:47
just came to mind seems very contradictory to me. In fact, they want
24:52
a lost youth and yet come to speak from the maturity that always considers the
24:57
degenerate young. Yes, that is, they are longing for youth when they
25:03
actually consider youth to be generational, that is, all new is degenerated out
25:07
of control. There is a real contradiction in your own argumentation. Yes,
25:12
of course, Ramas speaks of narcissism a lot I tell him a whole beve
25:17
chapter that we haven' t brought it, but I think it could help
25:19
that reflection. No, actually that as much less as you know yourself are
25:22
young, I mean, no, like that thing that narcissism goes through a
25:26
lot of these too, these good youth was yours, yes, it'
25:30
s not the rest and you' re mature and you talk from maturity,
25:33
and that' s also better than youth. But your youth is better than
25:36
today' s youth. It' s not your family, of course,
25:38
your concept of family is yours. It' s your concept of country,
25:44
which often excludes others. It' s your concept It' s the good
25:48
concept. Yes, your concept of a woman who can exclude trans women is
25:52
the perfect good concept of a woman. Yes, well, by going over
25:56
the characteristics of the melancholy, as described by branches, let' s think
26:00
that they find place in political parties, in social networks, in public debates,
26:03
that have presence and impact on different types, both social and political as
26:07
well as media, and that they are always with the feeling that melancholy is
26:11
the guide that allows us to leave this time. Crepuscular that we have defined
26:15
at the beginning as we said, can be of right or left and for
26:19
them that lost object that must be pursued are the values, the certainties,
26:25
the stability, the well- being and it says specifically homeland, family,
26:29
work, beliefs, virtue, values, community, roles of gender and class.
26:32
All these concepts are floating. In this reflection on the melanchos, one
26:37
to which Anairis devoted a whole chapter has been faltered. Stretch. Stretch eye
26:44
is that stretch is that how rum sounds. Yes, well, the idea
26:51
is that before we had something and before we could be someone and that we
26:55
got late to certain places is a look at the past that wants to recover
26:59
the lost object and you want to recover the identity, that wants to recover
27:03
that to be someone again with everything you mentioned about how the identity conforms in
27:07
this nostalgic sense. Yes, and in this sense there are two basic budgets
27:11
that I like most. What is that golden age, because we are saying
27:15
all the time that they want to go back to a past place that was
27:18
better, but what is then. For them she is adored. The fundamental
27:21
characteristic is that it provided a solid identity, certainties. If our present is
27:26
full of uncertainty, unrest and insecurity. That was golden. It wasn'
27:30
t like that. And the second is that if we possess the object once
27:33
we can get it back, that is, it can in the future.
27:36
What we have to do is return to that golden age that relates to nature,
27:40
that is, we are looking for a reality that is supposed to be
27:44
natural, simple, idyllic, rural country. We are linked to paradise to
27:48
the original. In fact, there are always like similarities with the garden of
27:52
Eden, order and meaning, the virgin redoubt, purity, all that kind
27:56
of stuff for that, lostly so by also bringing it as to social networks
28:02
and relating it a lot to the TRATWBS and all these what is called the
28:06
Cottich, Cottege Corps. Yes, they are quite a sto, for they
28:10
are everything as it is and as a very concrete santéstic. There are women
28:14
in frola dresses and flower them, go back to the prairie house, yes,
28:21
look to bake cakes and wait for your husband with a job. I
28:25
don' t know, because I don' t know cutting trees, because
28:27
of course, in the middle of Wisconsin, that' s what amies are
28:32
being, but with florets, yes, yes, but with tikto to record
28:33
that context, to record itself, because of course imis aesthetics is not very
28:37
instagramable, sorry for technology. However, a good flower dress, a good
28:41
picocho and it is a good squirting bisto walks is a super careful aesthetic,
28:45
not because it is all like color is cake, very warm or not aesthetically
28:49
is impeccable, physically yes, but what hides is careful. Yeah, yeah.
28:55
And in fact, we could also ask ourselves in the sense that you
28:57
said before, when the family revels, what family they are claiming, because
29:02
it is possible this access to things as they are. Naturally, there was
29:06
a more natural family before. What is the unnatural family in that case,
29:10
who have access to that thing itself, to the nature of things. And
29:12
this didn' t remember and we wanted to spin it with one thing we
29:18
gave in epistemology, in the subject of career knowledge theory, which is called
29:21
the myth of what was given. And I' m going to open here
29:25
a parenthesis philosofy to take care of myself, come to grandma, I'
29:30
ll get a chance by my hands in the mother mass. Yes, in
29:33
epistemology one of the theories that try to answer a great question that surely does
29:38
not have it, is that it is knowledge and how it works. So,
29:42
this theory of foundationism was inaugurated by discards and you understand this looks good
29:48
visually, because you understand knowledge as a building. Then the whole edifice of
29:52
knowledge stands on a foundation. We could think of foundations that are solid and
29:57
firm and it is this foundation that holds everything else in this base and basic
30:02
beliefs that need not be justified, through which all the rest of the knowledge
30:06
is derived, and this knowledge of the base is independent and does not imply
30:11
as a learning process, but is based on it everything else. So,
30:18
many authors have criticized this idea of what is given, naturally, as this
30:22
one that said as if there was an idea of family that is natural and
30:26
that is not to be learned because it is so. In essence, they
30:29
say it' s a myth. That is why this question is called in
30:33
philosophy, the myth of the given, which basically comes to say that it
30:37
is not possible that there exist these basic beliefs that have no justification and that,
30:41
moreover, support the whole building of knowledge. And from this criticism,
30:44
as many other theories have emerged that say it works differently and in this sense,
30:48
there would be something like given or natural things. So, going back
30:53
to the question I was asking, what is the family or the homeland in
30:56
its original or true natural state, because it is often what the person who
31:00
enunciates it wants, because we are going to see basically before him, that
31:04
is, what are the natural things to clarify branches, says the melancholy.
31:08
Consider that we must recover the family as it was before, because the family
31:11
is natural. We must recover the homeland as it used to be, because
31:15
the homeland is natural. We must recover the past, because the past was
31:18
natural, so going back to what was before is going back to the natural.
31:22
And here it can be homeland, female family or you can put all
31:26
the words that you want it to work like this not and a very good
31:30
example of all this that she develops a lot in the book is this return
31:33
to rural that, because there if many other people have lately been gestivating besides
31:41
with enough selfishness on their part, because it is not really a collective solution,
31:44
it is I go to the countryside you stay there by no, because
31:47
in fact, linking it with the class struggle you do, you think that
31:52
people would not like is to the countryside if they could, that they would
31:55
not want to leave their narrow, dirty narrow neighborhood, in which they have
32:01
difficulty to get ahead, that they would not want to get out of their
32:07
small floor in that worker neighborhood. Of course he would like to go to
32:08
a large country house where the light comes in and he can bake bread and
32:14
muffins, but he can' t, he doesn' t have the material
32:16
conditions to do it. And also that idea of the field not as a
32:20
place. Apart from that, what the people of the countryside do, that
32:22
is, they fail everywhere, that is to idealize the countryside, that the
32:24
life in the countryside is much harder than it seems. Ro is posed as
32:28
a paradise, as a state, what was said before natural original, a
32:30
reality, as a virgin in case yes, that is a class privilege yes,
32:35
that is to say to think that you can go to the field of
32:37
living the bucolic life of garcilaso is that you have a privilege yes, not
32:40
totally. And it also relates the rural with many more things, because it
32:45
is the traditional, also what you said before the lineage and all these.
32:46
I mean, it' s not just the rural in itself, but it
32:49
' s the natural, the traditional, the rustic, the community, that
32:52
there' s also a constant idea of idealization of the lost community that I
32:57
know at what time it was lost and which community. That is being referenced
32:59
then to clarify branches. Many times they are artificial reproductions, that is,
33:04
they try to recreate something that was supposed to be that maybe it never even
33:08
existed and you' re trying to make some kind of pastiche or something that
33:13
is a copy of an original that we' re not sure if you'
33:16
re even villeras if it existed and we could say no. Not good clear
33:17
if when you talk about the golden age, for example, the Roman Empire,
33:22
what the Roman Empire was like for most people who lived it, as
33:24
it was for the poor, for the soldiers. You have to see the
33:28
rome series of Hbo, how it was for the plebe, how is the
33:36
golden age the 19th century, with the traditional family that you longed for what
33:39
was the role of the woman, then what did the children have to do?
33:42
Yeah, how they got through here had to take care of the firstborn
33:46
and what the others were doing. What patriarchy was like, then what the
33:50
working class was like. Of course it is industrialization us Where is the golden
33:53
age? Where is the golden age, where everything was wonderful. Sure.
33:57
One of the keys to the book is this year was something that has never
34:00
really existed. And Ramas says in the book the past in which our parents
34:04
lived better than we did, never existed, because they will tell our parents.
34:07
Of course, tell our parents, ask our parents, our generation of
34:09
our grandparents. What happens is when parents get older they also idealize their past
34:15
and forget, as you say at the beginning, we forget the bad parts
34:17
and we keep the good ones, with the good memory. That also makes
34:22
us look forward to childhood, for example, when childhood for a few children
34:25
has sometimes been very hard and very traumatic. Childhood is not always a golden
34:30
age. It can be a stage, for example, adolescence. I lived
34:34
it with a group of friends who I don' t think will have a
34:37
good time, until they found a little place in the world and some still
34:38
don' t find it. Sure, but we' re still looking for
34:42
that place in the world, too. It' s just that there'
34:45
s no such golden moment where everything was going well. Of course, precisely
34:47
what you are saying is that this idealization of the past is based on a
34:52
series of silenced pains, frustrations, limitations that are not spoken of. When
34:55
it is remembered in an idealized way and it says that past produced like now
35:01
other different opportunities of fullness and meaning. There were some certainties that we do
35:06
not now have, but there was also silence and there was also violence and
35:10
shortcomings and impotence. All this that we are saying when we say forty years
35:13
of peace in reference to Francoism, Friends, friends, it was not peace,
35:19
it was not what there was then. Yes, as transition is a
35:21
very good example of a stage supposedly worships the best transition in the world and
35:27
hides things from terrible security. Yes, yes, well, Ramas precisely says
35:31
that the melancholy converts that hole or that lack into an object that we once
35:36
possessed and that we then lost, that is, that the melancholy what he
35:38
does is invent the past and confront the anguish of the present with the invention
35:44
of that past that never really existed. And there' s a very good
35:46
quote from him in the book that says time slips through our hands. We
35:51
long for the past. The present is not a task. The future is
35:53
cancelled. Time drives us out of its bosom. We can' t dwell
35:58
in it. We' re looking for a home, but that home isn
36:01
' t in the old days. The golden age never existed. How well
36:05
he writes. Of course, it' s very well written on top.
36:06
The book is amazing. I recommend it a lot. There' s more
36:08
there, I mean, we' ve brought. There are many more nuances
36:12
and she brings many philosophers and is the best a weight from here to clear
36:16
because, to we do not wish not to know her. He hasn'
36:20
t paid us for this promo Come on, don' t pay me for
36:23
this one, but it' s also very well written Paula' s tenderness
36:27
to take. And good that if we talk about these issues and always put
36:30
the negative part, but I think that it is important the concept of hope
36:36
that this discussion brought, that is, we must keep thinking about better futures
36:40
and we must continue to dwell in those present in which conditions can improve better.
36:45
Yeah, we' re not lost.