Latest / The Vault: The Epstein Files / Mega Edition: Tova Noel’s Account of the Morning Jeffrey Epstein Died (Part 17-19) (5/21/26)

Transcript

Mega Edition: Tova Noel’s Account of the Morning Jeffrey Epstein Died (Part 17-19) (5/21/26) · The Vault: The Epstein Files

0:00
Speaker 1: What's up everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
0:03
Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up
0:06
where we left off with the tovin Owell interview with
0:10
the OIJ Inspectors. The recorder is back on. It's currently
0:15
one forty six pm and this is Senior Special Agent redacted.
0:20
I'm just reminding you, miss Noel, you're under oath and
0:23
this is a voluntary interview. Thank you again for your cooperation.
0:27
So when we took a break, is there anything that
0:29
you wanted to add from the last thing we were
0:31
talking about the difference between the four, the ten, and
0:35
the twelve and the different numbers. Noel, on the plus one,
0:40
I don't know where the plus one came from. I
0:42
absolutely counted at ten. I don't know why is there
0:45
a plus one? And then when the number changed, like
0:49
there's something that's sometimes it's called like a ghost count.
0:52
I don't know. I don't remember if that's what happened.
0:55
So whereas control, we'll call you and say put as
0:59
a ghost count. So the inmate is not physically there,
1:01
but they know where the inmate is because they didn't
1:04
redo the count sheet. So that's the only thing I
1:07
can think of the ghost count question. I could think
1:11
it may be a ghost count for the plus one,
1:13
but if you're writing the numbers and it's supposed to be,
1:16
I mean, when you're she gets caught off. I'm talking
1:20
about for seventy three and then how it changed to
1:23
seventy two. Noel says, as far as the plus one,
1:26
I don't know about the plus one. I'm talking about
1:29
the seventy three. Question. When you do account that you
1:33
list on it, isn't it the physical inmates that are there? Noel? Yeah, question,
1:38
you can't ever say that you can't list somebody that
1:41
is not on there. Correct Noel, correct question right, So
1:46
you see, Noel, No, But what I'm saying, Okay, Like
1:50
like I said, I really don't remember. But let's say
1:53
if I counted seventy two and they said ghost count John,
1:57
and I put seventy three. As far as the plus one,
2:00
I don't know, and I put seventy three because they
2:03
know where the inmate is, and then after for the
2:06
next count they fix the roster because that's why it's
2:09
called a ghost count, because they didn't move to where
2:12
the person is supposed to be, and then they fix
2:14
it on the next one that could have been how
2:17
the count went down in seventy two, But as far
2:20
as the plus one, I don't know where the plus
2:22
one went question. All right, So who was in the
2:25
shoe at ten pm when you conduct this count? Noel,
2:29
me and redacted question just the two of you? Noel, Yeah.
2:33
Question he's sleeping, Noel. Yeah. Question. What conversation did you
2:38
have with anybody about the count? Noel, That's what I'm saying.
2:42
I don't recall. That's the only thing that could have happened.
2:45
But I don't recall. Question. But if they told you
2:48
to do that at ten pm, as you just noticed,
2:51
at twelve am the count, that's when they catch that
2:55
the counts are wrong. Noel. Right. Question, So if I
2:58
told you that he gets cut off by Noel, Well,
3:02
not at the time, at the twelve time, I'm saying,
3:05
like when it changed from I'm not looking at that time,
3:08
but when it changed from seventy two to the seventy
3:11
two at the time. Question right, So no inmate was
3:14
removed from the shoe after ten pm? Noel, No question.
3:18
There's only seventy two inmates in the shoe at ten pm, Noel,
3:23
I don't as far as the numbers go, I don't
3:25
remember accurately the numbers, but no inmates moved question right, Noel,
3:30
there was no movement. Question And that's just where we're
3:33
trying to get to this. If you're swearing up and down,
3:37
you know, under oath, I conducted this count, Noel, I
3:40
did question, but there's only seventy two people there at
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twelve am. That's when the lieutenant catches, Hey, guys, there's
3:48
only seventy two people in there. You've got to redo
3:50
this count and give me a new count. Slip and
3:53
when did this happen? Foy Let me just say something here.
3:57
It says that at ten I'm looking at the ten
4:00
that it was seventy three on the outside were redacted.
4:03
Question correct, foy right. So the control and her slip
4:06
matches question right. So she calls in the number Foy right. Question.
4:11
So she's calling in because somewhere before ten PM an
4:14
inmate wasn't removed from the list Foy right. Question, although
4:19
they were not present in the shoe. So if they're
4:22
doing account, that's where it's supposed to say, that's the
4:25
actual number that's in here, Foy right. Question. And at
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that point control would say, we have seventy three where's
4:33
the problem here? But she called in seventy three foy
4:36
right question or yeah instead of seventy two question. So
4:41
you're right, the master list is off, but so is
4:44
the count slip. The count slip is provided first question,
4:48
but they're not off right technically. At ten the master
4:52
list is that front page and this is asked by
4:54
the union rep. Question the master list is wrong. It
5:00
said seventy three redacted correct union Rep. So there may
5:04
be something you know that we don't question. Oh, we've
5:08
already talked to hundreds of people about this Union Rep.
5:12
I'm sure question. So that's where I mean, not hundreds,
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but you know what I mean, Union Rep. A few people,
5:19
question a lot of people. So this is where we're
5:22
just asking the only person that was there that was
5:25
actually you know, the other guy was sleeping. There's only
5:27
one person physically present in there, and that was you,
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miss Noel. Noel, yeah, question. So that's why we're asking you.
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Everyone else clear as day says, well, it shows it's
5:41
just proof that that's how the count wasn't conducted. That's
5:44
what everybody else says, all the way up to the
5:46
highest levels. So That's why if you're saying that the
5:50
count was conducted, you're just saying, Noel, I did the
5:53
count question. You just counted wrong, Noel, I did do
5:57
the count question by the union. And I'm asking this
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because I think if we're confused, miss noel Is might
6:04
be confused. Correct me if I'm wrong, Noel, Right, like,
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because I didn't even she gets cut off by the
6:10
union rep if the employee. Let's use a simple number
6:14
for the sake of it, right, I'm an employee. I
6:16
count for living, breathing bodies on Unita, and then I
6:20
call you who is located eight floors downstairs? And I
6:24
say I have four bodies on Unita And you say
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to me, that's a good count. Right. That's what these
6:31
documents imply took place, because the front page is prepared
6:35
by a completely different person in a completely different area
6:38
redacted exactly. So what these documents actually imply is that
6:42
the institution count show that there were seventy three people
6:45
in there. There were only seventy two people in there.
6:51
So what they imply is that the count wasn't conducted
6:54
because there were only seventy two people in there, and
6:57
it was just based on the number that should have
6:59
been based upon the system. The system showed there were
7:03
seventy three, so they wrote seventy three on the slip.
7:06
That's what the documentation implies. Union Rep. I get that question, However,
7:12
there were only seventy two people in there. Union Rep. Now,
7:16
I understand what you're saying. Question. So that's why I'm asking.
7:20
It's hard for me to get past his question if
7:22
you're saying, yes, I counted seventy three when there are
7:25
only seventy two bodies in there. Noel, no I absolutely
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counted as far as the number, like I said, in
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remembering how much bodies I counted, But I counted. Question,
7:35
So you counted, You just didn't You didn't maybe have
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the numbers up Noel, right, or it was she's cut off.
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And that's why I wanted to make sure the difference
7:46
between around and account. Noel, no I counted. Question, you counted,
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but Noel. And the reason why that always stood out
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to me because I remember he was on a triple
7:57
and he said he was tired, and I counted. Question,
8:00
So just give me a little more information on what
8:03
you're just saying. You know you counted, but what Noel,
8:06
no I'm saying, I know I absolutely counted, and that
8:09
always stood out to me because I remember he was
8:11
on a triple and he was tired. Question sure, Noel,
8:16
And I counted by myself, which I'm not supposed to do,
8:19
so I remember that. But as far as the numbers go,
8:21
I don't remember this because I didn't even remember something
8:25
about a plus one until I seen the count slip, Like,
8:28
I don't recall nothing about a plus one. Question right, Noel.
8:34
So as far as the numbers, I'm not sure. But
8:37
as far as counting, I absolutely counted. Question are you
8:41
sure you counted seventy three? Noel? That's what I'm saying.
8:45
As far as the numbers go, I don't remember, but
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I counted. Question let's see you counted? What So I mean,
8:51
what did you do with the numbers that you counted? Noel?
8:55
What I'm saying is the count could have been off,
8:57
But I'm just letting you know that I actually did count.
9:00
As far as the actual numbers, that's where the discrepancy
9:03
comes in. Question, So did you count and then look
9:07
at the system what showed was in there and you
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just decided to put what the system showed, Noel? Because
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I don't know how to look for that question. You
9:17
don't even know how to find Noel cuts them off.
9:19
Look for the count in the system, no question. So
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where would you if you're prepopulating things, where would you
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get the numbers from? In order? Noel cuts them off.
9:29
When you come in, the person that you're leaving will
9:31
be like, I got seventy two or I got seventy five. Question,
9:36
So someone who you relieved would have told you that
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there were seventy three? Noel? Correct question, all right? And
9:43
you know who would have told you that there was
9:44
seventy three? Noel, I don't know. Question. Would it have
9:48
been redacted before he fell asleep? Noel? I don't remember.
9:52
Question all right? So again, just help me try to
9:55
understand if there's only seventy two people in there, how
9:59
you wrote seven three? If you counted, Noel, Again, that's
10:03
what I'm saying, I could have miscounted. I don't remember
10:06
what happened as far as the actual number of the count.
10:09
I can only just tell you that I counted. As
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far as numbers go, I don't remember. Question right. So
10:15
you counted each tier, Noel? Yeah, question, and then you
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added each of those counts up, Noel. Yes, I counted
10:22
each tier. I don't know if I added them up,
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but usually when i'm counting, that's what I do. I
10:27
write it down K tier with the number, EL tier,
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I put the number and I add them up. Question Okay, Noel,
10:34
But if I miscounted, remember I counted by myself, So
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if I miscounted, I would have called control and I
10:40
would have said seventy three. They would have been like, no,
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your account is wrong. Question. It's weird that your miscount
10:48
just happened to show what the system said. That was
10:51
what the system thought was in there. That's where I'm
10:55
having difficulty because it's like, the system says seventy three.
10:59
So if you miscounted seventy three and the system says
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seventy three, but there's only seventy two, how are you
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saying you actually counted, Noel, But they're at ten, it's
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seventy three on here, and it's seventy three on here.
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Question correct, because that's the institution counted off, Noel. So
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but I'm confused because at ten it says seventy three.
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Foy cuts in, but they're saying this is wrong, this
11:24
paper is wrong. Redacted and it was caught at midnight. Noel. Okay,
11:29
but this is well then I don't know. I don't know.
11:33
Question do we want to continue this or keep going? Question? Oh?
11:37
Keep going? Question? All right? So prior to six thirty
11:40
three am on August tenth, twenty nineteen, when was the
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last time that you conducted around within the shoe? Now
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we're talking about around, Noel, I don't remember the time,
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but I didn't conduct no round between twelve and the
11:53
twelve to eight shift. Question, So this what we're talking about,
11:58
what you're calling account that you're saying, would then that
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the last time be that you conducted either around or
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account Noel? After ten question? When we're discussing at the
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ten would you have done something between then and twelve? Noel,
12:15
I don't remember. This is the last that I remember
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with the count at ten question. So the last one
12:21
that you recall is the one that we're discussing on
12:23
the ten PM count Noel. Yes, question okay, so probably
12:28
around ten would have been the last Noel, you can
12:31
say that question. What time does the count slip show? Noel,
12:35
the count slip shows ten on here it says ten
12:38
thirty pm. Question ten thirty pm Noel. Uh huh question,
12:42
do you no? No? No. That's the institutional count Noel.
12:46
On the count slip, it says ten PM. It's always
12:49
going to say that. Like even if, like on the
12:51
count slip, if I counted at ten fifteen, it's still
12:55
going to say ten because it's the ten o'clock count redacted.
12:59
So this one, I just want you to try to
13:01
kind of because this would have been if you actually
13:04
conducted the count and you actually looked at the people,
13:07
this would have been correct. And the last time you
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saw Epstein correct Noel correct question, all right, So I
13:14
just want you to consider that with all that surrounding this,
13:17
you've got the kind of in your mind, think, when's
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the last time that I saw Noel? Uh huh question?
13:23
Is this the last time that you can remember seeing him? Noel? Yes,
13:27
all right. So we're gonna wrap up right here, and
13:29
in the next episode we're going to pick up where
13:32
we left off. All the information that goes with this
13:35
episode can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone,
13:39
and welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In
13:43
this episode, we're going to dive right back in to
13:45
the tovin Noel interview with the olig Inspector. Question, so
13:51
do you remember if that would have been at ten,
13:54
a little after, a little bit before, and again, this
13:57
is the last time you saw this big guy who's
14:01
caused your life to flip upside down? Noel, But I can't.
14:04
That's what I'm saying. Question. You just got a ballpark it, Noel.
14:10
It's somewhere around ten. Question. So you just always write
14:14
the time of the count Noel, Yeah, with the counts,
14:17
even if because remember on the unit you're waiting to count.
14:21
So let's say you fill out the ten o'clock slip,
14:24
but let's say we didn't actually go down range until
14:27
ten thirty. You don't actually put ten thirty. It's a
14:30
ten o'clock count, So you're always going to say ten o'clock. Question. Okay, Noel,
14:37
So that's what I'm saying, Just ballpark it question. So
14:41
approximately ten pm, Noel, Yeah, or after ten question? Okay,
14:45
So on the round does that also say ten pm?
14:49
I mean, I know you said you populated that one,
14:51
but what does that one say? And that's for August ninth.
14:54
You already said August tenth. None of the rounds were
14:57
conducted on August ninth. I guess around the tenth. You
15:00
know that nothing after ten was actually conducted on the
15:03
round sheet? Noel, it has after ten on here? Question? Okay,
15:07
so those ones, those ones from then on, you know
15:11
those weren't conducted, Noel right. Remember I didn't fill this
15:15
out question, you prepopulated it, right, So I want to
15:19
make sure we know that you said that some of
15:22
those were conducted, Noel right. Question. You don't remember which
15:26
ones you did, Noel right, question, but I just know
15:30
that those are the ones that weren't conducted after ten pm?
15:35
Noel right question. Okay, all right, So that last you're
15:38
saying the last round and the count were on and
15:42
one and the same. And was that an authorized practice?
15:46
Is a round an account if you're doing a ten
15:48
pm count? Does that also? What can you document on
15:52
the round sheet as something you did at ten pm? Noel,
15:56
yes question. Okay, so they can overlap for that, Noel, yes, question,
16:01
or any supervisor's present for any cell counts or rounds
16:05
in the shoe on either August ninth or tenth, twenty nineteen, Noel,
16:10
no question. Is there a requirement or was there at
16:14
that time that a supervisor every supervisor at least one
16:18
per shift should have conducted around or account with you
16:21
guys in the shoe, not of you staff members, but
16:25
the inmates. Noel, you're saying if the supervisor should have,
16:30
she gets cut off. Should a supervisor, you know, like
16:33
a lieutenant, observed or participated in account or around of
16:38
the inmates during their shift at least one? Do you
16:41
know of that? Noel? I think so. Question you think
16:44
that they're supposed to do that? Noel? Yeah. Question, and
16:48
during your time in the shoe to the lieutenant ever
16:50
participate or observe account or around while you were in
16:54
the shoe? Noel? Redacted did? Question? Redacted? Did? Noel? Redacted
16:59
did because she went down on the tears, but on
17:02
the midnight ey, Lieutenant redacted didn't walk the tears. Question Okay,
17:07
so when redacted did on August ninth, she actually walked
17:11
the tears and checked out the inmates, Noel, she did?
17:14
Question she did? Okay? And when around would that have been?
17:17
Do you remember? Noel, I don't remember the time. Question
17:21
did she do it by herself or did she go
17:24
with you guys while you were conducting around or account Noel, No,
17:28
she didn't do anything with us. Question, so she did
17:31
it by herself? Noel. Correct question, she walked up and
17:36
down each of the six tiers. Noel, she went down
17:39
the tears. Question do you know if that is a
17:42
requirement that a lieutenant does that in the shoe? Noel,
17:45
I don't know. Question have you ever observed anyone prior
17:49
to August ninth? Redacted doing that? Noel, observe a lieutenant
17:53
going down the tier? Question? Either do it themselves? The
17:56
lieutenant do the round themselves, or watch the staff members
17:59
do do it? Noel? Oh, no, they never know. They
18:02
never watched us do it. Question, never watched, never observed, Noel,
18:07
No question. Did they ever conduct it with you? Noel,
18:10
no question. But they would occasionally do it themselves, Noel, redacted.
18:15
Make the lieutenants will make around? Yeah, questions so not
18:19
just pop into the shoe, but redacted actually go up
18:23
and down? Noel, Yeah, some not all question some all right,
18:28
And that's what I'm asking. Do you know if it's
18:30
a requirement? Noel cuts them off that I don't know questions.
18:34
So you don't know what the policy is, Noel, I
18:37
don't know that the lieutenant she gets cut off, rule
18:41
or what they're supposed to do or not do? Noel,
18:43
what's supposed to do? Question? All right, but that didn't happen.
18:48
Did that happen more often than not when they actually
18:51
doing around with the inmates lieutenants? Noel, if it happened
18:56
that they walk the tears? Question? Correct, Noel, some of
18:59
them do not all question which ones would do it? Noel?
19:03
Lieutenant redacted was the shoe lieutenant, So he walks the
19:06
tears all the time? Question Okay, Noel, and then the
19:10
other lieutenants that's on when they come down. They signed
19:13
the round sheets. Question, but do they actually do the
19:16
rounds themselves or they just sign your sheet and check
19:19
in with you. Noel, They don't do it all the time.
19:23
They signed the sheet and they check in with me,
19:25
and they'll say like, is there anything going on, But
19:28
they don't get physically or actually walk it all the time.
19:32
Question Okay, so it's occasionally Noel. Yeah. Question all right?
19:36
But okay, Noel, I don't know if it's a requirement.
19:40
Question all right, you're saying you don't recall the four
19:42
PM you may have you might not have, Noel, I
19:46
don't recall. Question you just don't recall, all right, so
19:50
twelve am, three am, five am. We don't need to
19:53
go into these specific things. You said none of them
19:56
were conducted, they were false. You both signed them and
19:59
submitted them. Correct Noel, correct question. And you knew that
20:03
you and you knew that you had to do the
20:06
count Noel, Yes. Question. What conversation did you have with
20:11
Thomas about doing that? Noel, We didn't have a conversation.
20:16
He was exhausted and he was sleeping question Thomas Noel, yes. Question,
20:21
So at twelve am until because you said you filled
20:23
them all out at about twelve Noel. Yeah. Question. And
20:29
you didn't have a conversation about filling them out at
20:31
twelve Noel, No, because we do that all the time.
20:36
Like when he came in, we filled them out, and
20:38
then I think when the phone rang, he had the conversation.
20:42
And then there was another time when I was looking
20:44
for the count slip, he had it and I couldn't
20:47
find it, so I had to like wake them up
20:49
and resign the count slip. Question. Now, can you walk
20:54
me through that? So he gets a call. You already
20:56
filled out the count slip was once submitted, You put
20:59
it through the door, and internal came and got it Noel. Yeah. Question,
21:04
and that's when they called him back, Noel, and he
21:07
spoke to whoever, and then he wrote on the count
21:10
slip and we filled it out and I put it
21:12
back through the door. Question for the corrected one that
21:17
said seventy three, then you made it seventy two, Noel.
21:20
I don't remember, but I know I filled out a
21:22
new one question at twelve am, Noel. Yeah. Question. And
21:27
did you have to at that time fill out a
21:29
new three am and five am? Noel, Yeah, because I
21:33
couldn't find the count slips that he had, and I
21:36
filled it out and I woke them up and he
21:38
filled it. I remember that question. So this was later.
21:42
So he gets a call, he falls asleep, and then
21:44
later you have to wake him up to resign Noel. No,
21:48
he gets the call, he does it, then he falls asleep.
21:51
When he gets a call to change whatever, we change it,
21:54
and then he falls asleep. Question. So you only changed
21:57
the twelve am, he falls asleep, and then you have
22:00
to wake them up to change the three am and
22:02
the five am Noel, yeah. Question. Okay, and you just
22:06
never talked about that or what you were doing, Noel. No,
22:09
we didn't talk about it. Question, because that's just common practice, Noel.
22:14
To fill out the count slips before. Question to pre
22:18
populate count slips. You're supposed to count inmates to make
22:21
sure that they're there, and write the number of what
22:24
you counted. Noel, Yes, question common practice is you just
22:28
fill that out first? And you said that you don't
22:31
have access to that or what the count number is
22:33
supposed to be. Noel, I never said I don't have access.
22:37
I don't know how to I don't know if I
22:39
have access, I don't know how to find what it's
22:41
supposed to be. Question, so how do you get the
22:45
number that you write on the slip? Noel? The number
22:48
that I wrote on the slip. The officer gave it
22:50
to me. Question, So whoever you replace, they tell you
22:54
what the number is to write? Question you prepopulated that number?
22:58
Is that correct? Noel? Core and you fill it out,
23:01
even on a regular housing unit. I fill it all
23:04
out and when I count, because even if it's wrong,
23:07
you can just rewrite it. Question right, Noel, Because even
23:11
if I come in and you say it's seventy two,
23:14
I fill it out, and I put seventy two on
23:16
all of them. I know nobody there's no movement between
23:20
twelve and eight. And even if I did and I
23:23
put seventy two and I counted and it's wrong, I
23:26
could just change it. So that's the way I've always
23:29
done it. Question. Does that sound weird to you or
23:32
just me? Noel? What question? That that's the way it's done,
23:37
That you prepopulated all these numbers and then you just
23:39
change them later if they end up being off, Noel, No,
23:42
because they're usually not off. Question, Noel. And then like
23:48
if I'm working a unit, if I worked that unit
23:50
and I did a double there, I counted, So I
23:52
know that's what it is. So it doesn't sound crazy
23:56
that I fill it out. Question Well, in this instance,
23:59
it does because your account was wrong, the one you
24:02
said that you counted. Noel. Okay, but that's the case.
24:06
But I'm saying, like, it's not. If I worked a
24:08
double on eleven North and I've been there the shift
24:11
before and the shift after, and I filled it out,
24:14
I know there's no movement. So no, it's not crazy
24:17
that I filled it out. Question right, So had you
24:20
worked with Thomas prior to this instance, Noel? Never question?
24:24
You never did, Noel, No question, And there was no
24:28
conversation with them about these not doing the counts or
24:32
prepopulating these count slips, Noel, no about pre populating the
24:36
count slips. He came in, he filled it out and
24:39
I signed it. It wasn't a conversation about that. When
24:43
it was time to do the when it was time
24:45
to conduct the count, I tried to wake them, and
24:48
he was really tired. He was like, I'm tired, and
24:51
I didn't we didn't conduct the count. Question all right?
24:55
And that was that? What time twelve? Noel, I don't
24:58
remember the time? Es? What count would have been? For that?
25:02
You tried to wake him up? Then he said he
25:04
was tired, Noel, I don't know. Question. You don't know, Noel,
25:09
No question. Would it have been the twelve because you're
25:12
already Noel cuts them off. It could have been the twelve,
25:16
It could have been three. I don't know. Question, all right, Noel,
25:19
he was tired. Question. So that was the one conversation.
25:24
Noel cuts them off, because I counted upstairs, Like why
25:27
would I go upstairs and count a unit and leave
25:29
my unit? So I woke him up. He was tired,
25:32
So I went upstairs and I counted with redacted question
25:36
and what time was that at Noel three and five?
25:40
Question you did the three in the five Noel, Yeah, question,
25:44
you just didn't do the one in your unit Noel,
25:46
right question. I'm trying to reconcile the fact that you
25:50
never worked with Thomas before, you didn't have any conversations
25:53
with him about it, Noel, No question. That's why I'm
25:57
saying it sounds like it must be just common practice. Noel. Yes, question,
26:01
you just don't conduct counts. You just fill them out
26:04
and you fill out the forms. Noel. We didn't have
26:07
a conversation about filling it out. No because that's common
26:10
in there. Question all right, so it's very common. Is
26:13
it very common from like twelve to five count those
26:17
three not to conduct the counts and just write them Noel,
26:21
No question. No, it's not common? Or is it common? Noel?
26:25
You're saying if it's not common to conduct the count
26:28
or if it's common to indiscernible it question? Is it
26:31
common not to conduct the counts at night or the
26:34
early morning hours? Noel. I don't know, because that's my
26:37
first time ever not doing it, So I don't know
26:40
if it's common not to conduct the count But if
26:42
it's common to fill it out before Foy, you need
26:46
to make that more clear. Did you ever work midnight
26:49
to eight am to have an experience to say what happens? Noel. No,
26:53
not in the shoe question. So you've never worked midnight
26:56
to eight prior to this instance, Noel, not in the
26:59
shoe question. Okay, the other times you were in the shoe,
27:02
was it common to fill out count slips that weren't conducted, Noel.
27:06
In the other times that I've worked in the shoe,
27:09
we fill She gets cut off. So you're saying you've
27:12
never worked in the shoe, and we got the schedule
27:14
in front of you. If you want to take a
27:16
look to just help refresh your memory when you were
27:18
in the shoe, was it common to fill out count
27:20
slips that weren't conducted, Noel, count slips, We fill them out,
27:24
and the counts were done. The rounds. It was common
27:27
to fill them out, and the rounds weren't all conducted. Question.
27:30
So you're saying it's common to fill them out ahead
27:33
of time, but it's not common not to conduct the rounds. Noel.
27:36
The counts correct, right, folks. We're gonna wrap up right
27:40
here and in the next episode dealing with the topic,
27:42
We're gonna pick up where we left off. All the
27:45
information that goes with this episode can be found in
27:49
the description box. What's up, everyone, and welcome to another
27:52
episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're gonna
27:56
pick up where we left off with the Tovin o
27:59
Weell interview with the OIG inspectors. Question. So you're saying
28:05
it's common to fill them out ahead of time, but
28:07
it's not common not to conduct the counts. Noel, the
28:11
count's correct question. Okay, how often were they when you
28:14
worked in the shoe? How often were the counts not conducted? Noel?
28:18
They were done? Question? They were always done when you
28:21
were in there before. Noel. Yes, question. And this is
28:25
again one of those things. If we go back to
28:28
the video from the days prior, because we had to
28:30
get the video from these days, if we review that,
28:34
are we going to is it going to show you
28:36
conducting the counts? Noel? Yeah, I don't have to conduct
28:41
the count because if I'm working with two or more people,
28:43
they could have did the count. So it doesn't necessarily
28:46
have to be You're going to see me on the video,
28:49
but you will see the counts being done. If you
28:51
get what I'm saying. Question, No, I understand what you're saying. Noel.
28:55
If three of us are working, those two could have
28:59
did it, it does and have to be me redacted.
29:02
So when you were in the shoe, if you didn't
29:05
do it, did the two other people always do it? Noel? Yeah? Question?
29:09
All right? Were you ever on count slips, your assigned
29:13
count slips that you personally didn't conduct? Noel? No question.
29:17
So you never signed? He gets cut off by Noel
29:21
if I ever signed the count slips. But that the
29:23
night before the roundsheet I did? Question? I'm sorry, what
29:27
was that? Noel? The round sheets? I did, the count slips,
29:31
No question. The roundsheets you did? What? Noel? On the
29:34
ninth when I filled out the entire count slips, I
29:37
didn't conduct every single round? Question? You didn't conduct every
29:41
single round? Noel, No question. So what about on previous incidents,
29:46
we can switch over to the rounds. That's fine. In
29:49
previous instances when you worked in the shoe, were the
29:53
rounds conducted as displayed on the count sheets? Noel, no question.
29:57
But the count you're saying there will always conducted When
30:00
you worked in the shoe, Noel. Yes. Question, so this
30:04
was just a rare instance, Noel, it wasn't rare. It
30:08
was because he was exhausted and he was tired and
30:11
he didn't want to count, so we didn't count. Question.
30:15
But then you also say redacted at ten pm also
30:18
was exhausted. Noel. Yes, And yes, I know because I
30:24
did it, and I wasn't supposed to do it. That's
30:26
why I didn't continue to do it, because I'm really
30:29
not supposed to count to go down range by myself,
30:32
so I didn't continue to do it. Question. You didn't
30:36
continue to do what Noel? The count by myself question?
30:39
All right, but you did the entire count at ten pm? Noel, yes. Question.
30:45
Were there other instances that you worked in the shoe
30:47
or other people were too tired to conduct their rounds? Noel, No,
30:52
because I usually she gets cut off or the count's
30:55
not rounds counts, Noel, Because I usually come in on
30:59
the shift prior. I don't work that, so I don't
31:02
know what goes on. Because there's the tire time question, right, Noel,
31:08
So I usually come in before that, so I don't
31:11
have to deal with that question, all right, But it
31:14
was just he gets cut off by Noel. It was
31:17
just one day. Question. It's the one day no conversations
31:21
were had. You try to wake them up. He didn't
31:23
wake up, so you just didn't do them. And then
31:27
you didn't even have to say like, hey man, we
31:29
need to do these things, or like there was just
31:32
an unspoken thing that he was tired, so you weren't
31:35
just going to do them. Noel, say that again, question,
31:39
I'm just trying to like it sounds like it would
31:42
be common practice to do this if there's no conversation
31:45
that we're had. Usually it would be like, hey, if
31:48
this is the first time I'm not going to do something,
31:51
I would say like, hey, is it cool that we're
31:53
not doing this, or some kind of conversation, unless it
31:57
was something that you had learned or experienced in the
31:59
past that like we don't do counts at this time, Noel,
32:03
but I had never worked a shoe at that time. Foy,
32:06
this is calling for you to explain your interaction with
32:08
Thomas as it relates to the count in particular. Right redacted, correct, Foy,
32:15
he's asleep. What's the interaction? What did you say? What
32:19
did he what did he say? Did you ask one time?
32:22
Did you ask multiple times, did he affirmatively say no
32:26
or did he just continue to sleep. That's the level
32:28
of detail they're asking for. Question. Yeah, we're asking you
32:32
to explain all of your interactions with Thomas with regard
32:35
to the count's noel. Well, when it was time to count,
32:39
because I remember I'm going upstairs to count, so I
32:41
wake him up to count, and he was like, I'm tired.
32:44
He was like, we have the count slip. I'm tired.
32:47
He went back to sleep. When the lieutenant came, I
32:50
woke him up because the lieutenant was coming. He fell
32:53
back asleep in front of the lieutenant. She said, hey,
32:55
you need to wake up. He couldn't stay awake. I
32:58
went upstairs and I counted, Foy, go back to the lieutenant.
33:02
Explain that in more detail. There's details that you're leaving
33:05
out of the interaction between Thomas and the lieutenant with
33:08
respect to him sleeping noel. Oh, I woke him up.
33:12
The lieutenant came. She came, she found the round sheet.
33:15
He fell back asleep in front of her. She said, hey,
33:18
you need to wake up. She had papers and she
33:21
hit him. She says, you need to wake up, Foy.
33:25
That's what I'm talking about Noel. She hit him with
33:27
a stack of papers. So saying that to say, like
33:31
everybody knows, like because we're understaffed and overworked. So let's
33:35
say if I was to tell on Thomas, that's who
33:38
I would have to hold it to. She was there
33:40
and she saw it. Question, So she knew. So you
33:43
didn't go as far as like if you were going
33:46
to report someone sleeping on duty, you didn't need to
33:48
report it because she saw it with her own eyes, Noel, exactly. Question.
33:53
And he was literally fell asleep in front of her. Noel,
33:56
in front of her? Yeah question. How long was she there? Noel,
34:00
maybe like five minutes, ten minutes. Question and that little
34:03
brief interaction, he actually went to sleep in front of her. Noel.
34:07
Yeah question. Okay, so no discussions with Thomas. Just when
34:11
you would wake him up. He just said that he
34:13
was tired. Noel. Yes. Question. Did you try to wake
34:17
him up for each count? Noel. I tried to wake
34:19
them up for the twelve and three. I don't remember
34:23
if I tried to wake them up for the five
34:25
because by that time he went upstairs. I remember you
34:28
went upstairs to relieve her dacted and I don't remember
34:31
what happened between there, and as far as waking them up. Question,
34:34
all right, And as far as the inaccuracy of the
34:37
one count specifically now we're talking about twelve am that
34:41
it was actually it's off. He got a call, but
34:43
he didn't talk to you about what was said on
34:45
the other line, Noel. No, he said, well, you got
34:48
to change the count slip, and he wrote it and
34:50
he changed it and I signed question all right, Noel,
34:55
But he didn't say, like, oh, the lieutenant, this happened
34:57
or that happened? No question? All right? And have you
35:00
ever experienced previous instances where the count was off from
35:04
when it was called in, Like if you give the
35:06
number and they say, no, that's not right, Noel, Yes, question,
35:11
And what happened in those instances? Noel? You recount? Question?
35:15
You actually did a recount? Noel? On well, not in
35:18
the shoe and other units. Question and other units though,
35:22
But do you know that that's what is supposed to
35:24
be done if you call in a wrong number, you're
35:27
supposed to do a recount, Noel. Right, but I don't
35:30
think that was the case with that, Like they called
35:33
in and gave okay, that was the case where alike,
35:35
if I counted wrong and then they'll say no, it's wrong,
35:39
and then I recount and I got the right number.
35:41
But in this case, they gave them the number because
35:44
of whatever I guess they knew where the inmate was
35:47
or was supposed to be, or wasn't moved. That's what
35:49
I'm saying. I don't know what happened between seventy three
35:52
and seventy two. But when he changed the number, he said,
35:55
the lieutenant said, so I just signed it. Question what
36:00
he didn't tell you? The lieutenant said to a new count. Noel,
36:03
no question. He never informed you of that, Noel, no question. Okay,
36:09
So you didn't really get into detail about what he said, Noel,
36:12
no question. Okay. But do you believe at twelve am
36:16
a new slip was created? Just not that one that's
36:19
not attached to that, the one that actually says seventy two, Noel, indiscernible,
36:25
is that at twelve at twelve here it says seventy three.
36:29
Question correct, But that was actually the top of the
36:32
page says seventy two. And I thought that's the one
36:34
that you said. They made you recreate account slip, Noel
36:38
Wright question and that's not you don't see that new
36:42
count slip on there? Correct? All right? And I know
36:45
you did they have the conversation with Thomas because at
36:48
twelve am he called the count number in and they
36:51
said he was wrong. Is that when he had the
36:53
conversation with the lieutenant? Noel know the phone rang? Question?
36:59
All right? So who called the count in at twelve am? Noel?
37:02
Me question? And did you call also the call at
37:05
three am and five am in Noel? Yes? Question all right?
37:09
And obviously you called in without actually conducting the counts,
37:12
correct Noel, yes. Question all right. Now it sounds like
37:17
your attorney has and you have had this conversation. But
37:21
what was the reason you didn't conduct the count question?
37:24
I didn't conduct the count in my area because he
37:27
was tired and were supposed to do them together, so
37:29
I just didn't do them. Question okay. So would you
37:33
have done them if he was awake? Noel, Yeah, because
37:36
I did them upstairs. Question okay. And you're saying that
37:40
you never worked the night shift before, But all the
37:42
other counts you have conducted that you've documented from previous Noel, Yeah,
37:47
question documented. You're saying you may have worked with three
37:50
other people, and two of them may have done the
37:53
counts when you've been present in the shoe, all the
37:56
counts have been conducted, Noel. Yes. Question Okay, And do
38:00
you know of any other CEOs or employees that have
38:03
falsified count slips? Noel, count no question. No, so you
38:08
don't know any other. I know that you said you
38:11
prepopulated them in a sense, but like as far as
38:14
he's cut off by Noel. As far as other units,
38:19
question not conducting the counts and actually writing a number
38:23
the account, do you know? Noel? Oh, no question. So
38:26
all counts that have been submitted to this point when
38:28
you're in the shoe, someone conducted them. Question Noel. Yes. Question.
38:34
And you said you never actually had a conversation with
38:36
anyone about counts and how they're documented. You just observed
38:40
as well, like on the round sheets, Noel. As far
38:43
as having conversations. Question, did anyone train you on how
38:47
to write count slips? Noel, no question. No, so you
38:52
just got it from watching other people fill them out.
38:55
That's how you learned? Noel. Yeah, because it's just your
38:58
name and the number of the count question. Sure, Noel,
39:04
uh huh? Question? Okay, do you want to take a
39:06
break now, Foy. Yeah, all right, So we're gonna wrap
39:11
up right here as well, and in the next episode
39:13
dealing with the topic, we're gonna pick up where we
39:15
left off. All the information that goes with this episode
39:19
can be found in the description box.