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Want to Recruit and Retain Top Performers? Listen In Now · Business Roundtable

0:01
Speaker 1: Welcome back everybody. David gar here of the Business Roundtable podcast.
0:05
Speaker 1: I'm grateful to be back for another week. We have
0:08
Speaker 1: a brand new guest here on the Roundtable. I'm very
0:11
Speaker 1: excited to share with you. For those of you listening
0:15
Speaker 1: for the first time or just checking in my name again,
0:17
Speaker 1: David Carsu of your business where I help organizations and
0:20
Speaker 1: their teams come together to accomplish great things. Uh. And
0:23
Speaker 1: so I love working in the people space, and that's
0:26
Speaker 1: why I got Craig on here, because he works in
0:28
Speaker 1: the people space, specifically in the recruiting space and bringing
0:33
Speaker 1: in top talent. And I'm gonna let him share more
0:35
Speaker 1: about his background in a minute. But we thought I
0:36
Speaker 1: thought it'd have a great conversation in our current environment
0:41
Speaker 1: of finding key key talent and who which Craig is
0:45
Speaker 1: an expert on and then how do we retain that
0:47
Speaker 1: talent in the organization. So, Craig, I want to Craig,
0:52
Speaker 1: I want to welcome you and just give it open
0:55
Speaker 1: to share with our audience. Since you're new to our audience.
0:57
Speaker 1: We have kind of returning guests, but you're new, So
1:00
Speaker 1: please take a couple of minutes here just to share
1:02
Speaker 1: with the audience, who you are and your background.
1:05
Speaker 2: Sure, Craig leech Wichita, Kansas and got into executive recruiting
1:13
Speaker 2: four years ago. I will tell you I probably started
1:17
Speaker 2: recruiting many years before. That just wasn't on my business card,
1:23
Speaker 2: right yeah, And uh, you know, as you're as you're
1:26
Speaker 2: building businesses and and scaling companies, and uh, I loved
1:32
Speaker 2: my roles, my executive roles where you're you're thinking strategically
1:36
Speaker 2: all the time, what's coming, what's your what goals and
1:39
Speaker 2: objectives you have? And then always looking, hey, who do
1:42
Speaker 2: I have in place that can then help with these objectives.
1:47
Speaker 2: If I don't have the talent, where do I Where
1:50
Speaker 2: do I find it?
1:51
Speaker 1: Mm hm.
1:53
Speaker 2: So I always kept this, uh, this whiteboard, if you will.
1:57
Speaker 2: Every time I met somebody that had a particular skill set,
2:00
Speaker 2: I would I would make sure I made a note
2:03
Speaker 2: of that, follow them, built a relationship with them, and
2:09
Speaker 2: enjoyed discovering people's talents. And so when I decided to
2:16
Speaker 2: step out into the world of executive recruiting, I wanted
2:20
Speaker 2: to approach it from the standpoint of how to you
2:25
Speaker 2: know strategy and people like the scales of justice and
2:30
Speaker 2: it has to be in balance. You can't execute strategy
2:34
Speaker 2: and vision without having the right talent around you if
2:38
Speaker 2: you're if you don't, if you don't, if you're not
2:42
Speaker 2: good at strategy and vision, if you have that a talent,
2:47
Speaker 2: you won't have them for long because they'll find somewhere
2:49
Speaker 2: else that can provide that. So it's it's a challenge,
2:53
Speaker 2: and I think it's something that resonates with me that
2:57
Speaker 2: you know, to be able to execute, you've got to
3:00
Speaker 2: have a daily focus on the talent around you, whether
3:05
Speaker 2: you have to go outside of the business or whether
3:08
Speaker 2: you can develop it internally. Both I think are important.
3:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely here. Yeah, I'm super excited and you're so
3:19
Speaker 1: humble because I know you've done had so many to
3:21
Speaker 1: experience in business and working, like you said, through this
3:24
Speaker 1: corporate world and then now started your own firms specializing
3:28
Speaker 1: and recruiting. But I just want to reemphasize what you
3:31
Speaker 1: just said, that that this this talent is the lifeblood
3:34
Speaker 1: of the organization and that how do we you know,
3:37
Speaker 1: I'm excited to dig deeper into how do we attract
3:40
Speaker 1: and retain that top talent, especially when it's a competitive
3:43
Speaker 1: market right now, when you're trying to find key you know,
3:46
Speaker 1: employee employees or you know, have a choice a little
3:49
Speaker 1: bit more right now, especially top talent. You know where
3:53
Speaker 1: they want to go, where do they want to be.
3:54
Speaker 1: So while we get into that, i'd love to hear
3:57
Speaker 1: your perspective. Like you said, you've been in the industry
3:59
Speaker 1: for a long time and now running your own firm
4:01
Speaker 1: for four years. What's that look, what's a change? What's
4:04
Speaker 1: the landscape look like with the in recruitment? How does
4:08
Speaker 1: that change or how is it the same? Maybe how's
4:10
Speaker 1: it looked since you know, maybe the last decade or so.
4:13
Speaker 2: I think that's been one of the challenges is recruitment
4:16
Speaker 2: has always been the same. I guess you know. The
4:21
Speaker 2: one thing that you know, I get asked all the time, Hey,
4:24
Speaker 2: we work with a recruiter, you know what makes you
4:27
Speaker 2: any different? And that really stuck with me and and
4:32
Speaker 2: I the recruitment process. Yeah, there's certain things that will
4:36
Speaker 2: change that are changing, new technologies, things of that nuture.
4:40
Speaker 2: But I think it's where you focus initially, because the
4:44
Speaker 2: people equation is so important and so vital to every
4:48
Speaker 2: organization regardless of size, that I take my recruitment and
4:54
Speaker 2: focus not on the job at hand. So much or
4:58
Speaker 2: or filling a role next week. We really need to
5:02
Speaker 2: start two years out and we need to focus on
5:07
Speaker 2: retention upfront versus, hey, now we've got this individual in here,
5:14
Speaker 2: how do we keep them? Let's let's let's uncover that
5:17
Speaker 2: and discuss that first before we start recruitment. And you know,
5:25
Speaker 2: there's a ninety some percent of people who are fired
5:34
Speaker 2: or leave a job within the first year. It isn't
5:40
Speaker 2: because of their technical ability, it's not because of their
5:42
Speaker 2: skill sets, it's not because of their performance. Ninety some
5:47
Speaker 2: percent of the time, it's behavioral, you know, the dreaded
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Speaker 2: you're not a culture fit. So why don't we address
5:55
Speaker 2: that day one and if there's areas that we want
6:00
Speaker 2: to explore deeper with a candidate, we get that out
6:03
Speaker 2: now versus day three sixty five.
6:05
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely, Well. I liked what you said.
6:09
Speaker 1: One of the things you said was thinking about the
6:12
Speaker 1: strategy like two years I go, or you know, thinking
6:15
Speaker 1: a little bit more about and it just triggered my mind.
6:18
Speaker 1: You said that Craig I worked with a company at
6:22
Speaker 1: one point, very large company, and I think that about
6:23
Speaker 1: five six thousand employees at one point, and for whatever reason,
6:27
Speaker 1: I can't remember the exact reason, but they paused their
6:30
Speaker 1: active recruitment of younger engineers right, and they didn't see
6:36
Speaker 1: that lag effect until, like you said, a couple of
6:39
Speaker 1: year or two later, where they were growing the company
6:41
Speaker 1: and they didn't have enough people to do all the
6:43
Speaker 1: work because they kind of stopped, they paused and they
6:46
Speaker 1: weren't thinking about we kind of got enough people and yeah,
6:49
Speaker 1: and then they realized, oh, we have to be constantly recruiting,
6:52
Speaker 1: like it never ends. It doesn't stop, right, it can't.
6:57
Speaker 2: It just can't. Makes a dedicated focus to to develop
7:02
Speaker 2: and and uh foster that mindset.
7:06
Speaker 1: Mm hmmm, mm hmmm. Another thing you mentioned was kind
7:10
Speaker 1: of preparing what is what's that retention look like? And
7:13
Speaker 1: one thing I work with exist clients right now where
7:17
Speaker 1: they're not you know, they I know they're going to
7:20
Speaker 1: need people. They're going to hire people like you, Craig
7:22
Speaker 1: to help them in the recruitment places because but I
7:24
Speaker 1: don't do that, but I do get them prepared for
7:27
Speaker 1: what I call kind of the storm of change. You're
7:29
Speaker 1: bringing somebody new into the organization and saying, be prepared
7:32
Speaker 1: even you know, how would this person be successful? How
7:35
Speaker 1: would they get plugged in, you know, thinking like you said,
7:38
Speaker 1: what are the you know, so it's both and like
7:40
Speaker 1: I like you said, it's it's you know, retention and recruitment.
7:43
Speaker 1: You've got to be thinking about both of those things
7:45
Speaker 1: because it's not either or right.
7:48
Speaker 2: It isn't you know. One thing one thought that comes
7:52
Speaker 2: to mind, uh, is everybody's concerned about when when you're
7:58
Speaker 2: actively in the recruitment process, what's their background? What have
8:02
Speaker 2: they done? I think that's important, you know, it is
8:06
Speaker 2: important past past performance as an indicator of future performance.
8:11
Speaker 2: But everybody talks about background. And one thing I like
8:14
Speaker 2: to bring up with with a hiring manager or a
8:17
Speaker 2: CEO or a president of a company is background is important. Well,
8:22
Speaker 2: let's talk about foreground, what's coming, what's going to help
8:27
Speaker 2: you retain somebody. And there's a common thing that your
8:31
Speaker 2: top performers are always looking for. It's clarity of vision,
8:37
Speaker 2: how they can make an impact and how they're going
8:40
Speaker 2: to grow personally and professionally. So let's address that in
8:45
Speaker 2: the job description. Let's forget about a lot of the
8:49
Speaker 2: standard you know, I hope I don't offend any any
8:52
Speaker 2: HR professionals, but you know, most job descriptions are very
8:56
Speaker 2: hr based. You know, you must be able to lift
8:58
Speaker 2: fifty pounds, you know, be able to stand for periods
9:02
Speaker 2: of time. Well, that's great, and and that needs to
9:04
Speaker 2: be included. I know there's you know, there's a reason
9:07
Speaker 2: why we do that. But but also you know, when
9:11
Speaker 2: I'm sitting down and we're discussing a search and how
9:16
Speaker 2: we're going to build the search, it's about uh, you know,
9:20
Speaker 2: I'll take them a year ahead. Hey, this is day
9:23
Speaker 2: three sixty five. We're sitting down with this employee on
9:26
Speaker 2: their first annual review. What will they have accomplished? You're
9:31
Speaker 2: going to say to them, you know, hey, hey David,
9:35
Speaker 2: you've been outstanding. You've done everything we've we've asked. Define that,
9:41
Speaker 2: because that's how I'm going to recruit. Here's what you're
9:44
Speaker 2: going to be doing, Here's what needs to be done,
9:47
Speaker 2: Here's what problem you can solve for them.
9:50
Speaker 1: Right.
9:51
Speaker 2: So a lot of people, that's a that's a tough
9:55
Speaker 2: that's a tough ask to define that.
9:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, well I think they're not probably doing it themselves,
10:03
Speaker 1: like you said, Greg, So it's like, how can you
10:04
Speaker 1: have somebody else do it? If you're not clear on
10:06
Speaker 1: the on the casting, the vision, and what's the win here.
10:11
Speaker 1: Then you're gonna have a really tough time having somebody
10:13
Speaker 1: to come in and be successful, right right, exactly?
10:16
Speaker 2: You know.
10:20
Speaker 1: So one I'm curious, Yeah, because one of the things
10:26
Speaker 1: you brought up here was we've got different generations now
10:30
Speaker 1: too that motivate them, right, and so as you said,
10:34
Speaker 1: that makes me think, I mean, I've seen it more
10:37
Speaker 1: in the I would say gen Z or millennials being
10:41
Speaker 1: very clear, like, I want to know what does this
10:43
Speaker 1: company stand for? What are you bout which was different
10:47
Speaker 1: a different motivator for some others generation. You know, I'm
10:50
Speaker 1: the Gen X generation That still is meaningful for me,
10:53
Speaker 1: but it just seems different. Can you speak to you know,
10:56
Speaker 1: recruitment particularly across these different generations right now? Yeah?
11:01
Speaker 2: Absolutely, because it's it's a challenge. Uh, it's a fun challenge.
11:06
Speaker 2: And uh, you know what, one of the things I've learned,
11:11
Speaker 2: if you're going to call somebody, call a boomer, they'll
11:15
Speaker 2: answer the phone. They'll pick it up, they don't care,
11:17
Speaker 2: they'll answer it.
11:19
Speaker 1: Answer.
11:20
Speaker 2: Millennials are some way some in some ways that that way,
11:25
Speaker 2: they'll answer the phone. I'd prefer an email, but I'll
11:29
Speaker 2: get on the phone uh, gen Z. They don't want
11:34
Speaker 2: they don't want to That phone is not a phone,
11:36
Speaker 2: it's a computer, and don't call me. Texting is fine.
11:42
Speaker 2: They love text messages. Let's have a few text messages
11:47
Speaker 2: and then maybe a phone call. So so that's different.
11:51
Speaker 2: One of the you know, the one of the challenges
11:54
Speaker 2: that I see today across all industries is there's a
12:01
Speaker 2: current leadership vacuum. Boomers are exiting the workforce at a
12:08
Speaker 2: rapid pace. Gen X is probably in senior leadership roles
12:15
Speaker 2: at this point. If if, if that's where they're at
12:18
Speaker 2: in their career. They're not looking to make changes. They're
12:22
Speaker 2: they've got one eye out the door, you know, they're
12:24
Speaker 2: preparing the final steps to to reach retirement. Millennials are
12:30
Speaker 2: starting to move into those senior leadership roles, but still
12:34
Speaker 2: not ready to take over a division or a company.
12:39
Speaker 2: They just need a few more years yet. Gen Z
12:43
Speaker 2: is probably one of the more difficult generations to deal with.
12:50
Speaker 2: It just seems to me that they don't have I'm
12:54
Speaker 2: a gen xer too, right, So they don't have that
12:57
Speaker 2: drive to hey, I want to advance and you know,
13:00
Speaker 2: jump these levels and and and reach the pinnacle. They're
13:04
Speaker 2: more interested in the experience. What am I going to
13:06
Speaker 2: be doing? What impact am I going to be having.
13:09
Speaker 2: I don't want to lead teams. I don't want to manage.
13:13
Speaker 1: I want uh.
13:15
Speaker 2: They're more open to looking at different careers staying in
13:19
Speaker 2: one industry segment. You know, what can I do to
13:24
Speaker 2: make an environmental impact? What can I do to make
13:26
Speaker 2: an impact on people? What can I experience versus how
13:32
Speaker 2: soon can I lead a team? What's the next step
13:35
Speaker 2: after that? Uh? So, that's so that's been a challenge,
13:39
Speaker 2: and I think it's just part of their age right now.
13:41
Speaker 2: I mean we were that age too. I'm sure that
13:44
Speaker 2: I'm sure things will change change that today that's a
13:48
Speaker 2: little difficult to the the career progress and progression for
13:52
Speaker 2: them is not as important as the experience.
13:56
Speaker 1: So it sounds to me what you're saying. I mean,
13:58
Speaker 1: you know, as far as just pure numbers of people, right,
14:01
Speaker 1: gen X is you know, correct me wrong, We're a
14:04
Speaker 1: smaller group you as far as the population, right, So
14:07
Speaker 1: you have, like you said, these gen xers, the boomers
14:09
Speaker 1: are leaving with the leadership. You've got gen x's have that,
14:12
Speaker 1: But then there's a smaller group and they're a lot
14:14
Speaker 1: bit more stepping out, you know, and then you've got
14:16
Speaker 1: these millennials that are coming in. So to me, what
14:20
Speaker 1: I and this is kind of what I'm you can
14:22
Speaker 1: affirm or you know, if that this is my understanding
14:24
Speaker 1: and what I'm seeing in the in the marketplace, and
14:26
Speaker 1: why I started toward your business was that that very
14:29
Speaker 1: thing Greig, like you're saying, there's a gap there. So
14:31
Speaker 1: rather than for me personally working for a company, I
14:34
Speaker 1: realized I can have more of an impact working with
14:36
Speaker 1: multiple companies that need that leadership development guiding their team.
14:41
Speaker 1: Because it's hard, especially now if you are the boomer
14:44
Speaker 1: you've left, or you're the gen X, you're the where
14:46
Speaker 1: the bucks uf. I don't have enough hour, don't enough
14:48
Speaker 1: time in the day to take care of all the
14:50
Speaker 1: things to run the business. And so how do I
14:53
Speaker 1: do that? You know, obviously recruiting is one of them.
14:56
Speaker 1: You've got to try to hire some talent. But what
14:59
Speaker 1: maybe I can't you know in the meantime too working
15:02
Speaker 1: with somebody like myself, but it's a stop gap to
15:05
Speaker 1: a certain degree of like I can help come in
15:06
Speaker 1: part time as a consultant for you, But you know,
15:09
Speaker 1: you're looking for a long term position to fill you know,
15:12
Speaker 1: fill that you know, so I you know, I see
15:16
Speaker 1: what you're saying. Craig is like, there's this this void
15:19
Speaker 1: right now and you know, making sure that it's this
15:23
Speaker 1: leadership is passed on or developed really with the millennials,
15:27
Speaker 1: sounds like in particular, so that they would you know,
15:30
Speaker 1: we'll see, have to see how the gen zs start
15:33
Speaker 1: to step into things over time. Obviously we don't know yet,
15:36
Speaker 1: but you know, the millennials too are kind of feel
15:39
Speaker 1: like being maybe stretched a little bit more to lead
15:42
Speaker 1: in they have to make They definitely have experience, they've
15:44
Speaker 1: been around, but maybe just not as much and they
15:46
Speaker 1: don't have anybody else to lean on unless they intentionally
15:48
Speaker 1: are like looking for outside mentorship right right, knowing that
15:58
Speaker 1: there's a diversity out there, Craig, how how have you
16:04
Speaker 1: work with companies to be inclusive, intensive, about intentional, about
16:10
Speaker 1: these different motivations expectations, right, How do you educate business owners,
16:16
Speaker 1: especially if they're like a Boom or gen X and like, okay, hey,
16:20
Speaker 1: you know you mentioned earlier about the job description that's
16:23
Speaker 1: the HR one, but how do we make it? You know,
16:25
Speaker 1: some of them want more flexibility in their work schedule.
16:30
Speaker 1: You can want to be have this, you know, it's
16:32
Speaker 1: just challenging to run the business. You're like, well, I
16:34
Speaker 1: need this. How have you guided business owners in this challenge?
16:39
Speaker 2: Yeah? You know, for me, I always when I work
16:42
Speaker 2: with either an existing client or even a new client
16:45
Speaker 2: that you know, the toughest part of this recruitment will
16:49
Speaker 2: be me interviewing you. And I think that that process
16:58
Speaker 2: those that X or size really helps them define and
17:03
Speaker 2: think about what how they want their culture to be defined,
17:10
Speaker 2: to be able to better define what they're looking for,
17:14
Speaker 2: what particular challenges or problems they have that they want
17:20
Speaker 2: somebody to be able to help and assist with. Ah.
17:27
Speaker 2: You know, one of the one of the big challenges
17:29
Speaker 2: is now it seems to be a pandemic in itself.
17:34
Speaker 2: Everybody really wants this uh remote flexibility, whether they're a
17:42
Speaker 2: boomer or whether they're gen Z and and I have
17:46
Speaker 2: a hard time. I have a hard time with with
17:51
Speaker 2: how we fit. Everybody is so concerned about culture. It
17:55
Speaker 2: doesn't matter the size of the company. Culture is extremely important.
17:59
Speaker 2: No or proponent of that than myself. But how do
18:04
Speaker 2: you know when with the increase in acceptance of remote
18:09
Speaker 2: and hybrid how do we develop and foster culture when
18:14
Speaker 2: we're not together? What's that look like? That's a whole
18:19
Speaker 2: new class in college, right. I think there's a whole
18:22
Speaker 2: new uh discipline here of how we how we navigate that.
18:28
Speaker 2: That's a challenge. It is all businesses, all sizes.
18:32
Speaker 1: Mm hmm.
18:35
Speaker 2: I You know when I tell candidates, and I work
18:37
Speaker 2: with candidates, they say, hey, what would make me a
18:39
Speaker 2: top candidate? One able to able to relocate and second
18:47
Speaker 2: that you're willing to go to the office versus work remote.
18:52
Speaker 2: That will set you apart in the marketplace today?
18:56
Speaker 1: Interesting? Yeah, I mean I share your sentiments, Craig on
19:01
Speaker 1: all those levels of and I work actually with with
19:07
Speaker 1: That's one thing I do work with with business owners,
19:10
Speaker 1: like you're saying, is how do we get that engagement
19:13
Speaker 1: in this hybrid remote way? And it takes a lot
19:16
Speaker 1: of intention. It's not accidental by any means. You have
19:20
Speaker 1: to be very intentional. It can be done, but you
19:23
Speaker 1: have to think, like you said, strategically about this. You
19:27
Speaker 1: could do it well, or you could do it you know,
19:29
Speaker 1: not so well. I mean I worked for a company
19:32
Speaker 1: and they just said we'll just go in the office
19:34
Speaker 1: and I'm like, but nobody else is there or I'm
19:36
Speaker 1: not working with anybody, So yeah, I could go to
19:38
Speaker 1: the office, but I could do the same thing here.
19:41
Speaker 1: But if I'm going to the office or going for
19:43
Speaker 1: a week long meeting because there's a whole bunch of
19:45
Speaker 1: meetings set up and specifically I'm going to meet with
19:47
Speaker 1: certain people, absolutely could be very powerful. We're having a
19:51
Speaker 1: company retreat, right, an experience like them. Maybe the gen
19:55
Speaker 1: z's want like, hey, I'll come to an experience and
19:58
Speaker 1: something that's lasting, and we have all the work shop
20:00
Speaker 1: and sessions and it's like okay, So it's it's kind
20:03
Speaker 1: of thinking a little differently, but I think I agree
20:06
Speaker 1: with you, Craig. There is absolutely value in coming together,
20:09
Speaker 1: coming in person, having that time and a place. We've
20:13
Speaker 1: kind of went when one extreme everybody don't come in,
20:16
Speaker 1: stay away, and then we said, okay, well maybe we
20:19
Speaker 1: come back. And then we've had some some extremes where
20:21
Speaker 1: the people are saying come in five days a week,
20:24
Speaker 1: Monday through Friday, eight to five, and some people are like, oh, whoa, whoa,
20:27
Speaker 1: that's a little bit too much. So where where's that
20:29
Speaker 1: middle ground? I don't know exactly, and I think it
20:31
Speaker 1: depends on the like you said, the company and the culture,
20:34
Speaker 1: right right, that's right, you know, but I appreciate your
20:40
Speaker 1: you know, your recognition of the or not recognition, but
20:46
Speaker 1: just you're this, you're you stated clearly, Hey, if you
20:48
Speaker 1: can relocate and if you're willing to come in office,
20:50
Speaker 1: you're going to be more valuable to an organization, right absolutely, absolutely,
20:57
Speaker 1: So don't be so rigid maybe, is what I'm hearing
20:59
Speaker 1: is say, be flexible in that regard if they if they,
21:02
Speaker 1: if you're really looking for this opportunity to grow and
21:06
Speaker 1: you know, build this relationship with a company, be willing
21:09
Speaker 1: to relocate, be willing to go in the office and
21:12
Speaker 1: explore what that looks like. But I think that's that's
21:17
Speaker 1: you positive to hear that, that's what you're seeing in
21:20
Speaker 1: the marketplace right now, especially for those that live on
21:23
Speaker 1: the on the Business round Table podcast. We have business owners,
21:26
Speaker 1: we have leaders, uh you know, directors, we have different
21:29
Speaker 1: people on here that are sharing and learn learning, and
21:31
Speaker 1: so it's great to hear this, Craig of what you're
21:33
Speaker 1: what you're seeing right now. I'm in California. I love California,
21:37
Speaker 1: but California has been recruited away. There's a lot of
21:39
Speaker 1: different people recruited, like you said, the different places throughout
21:43
Speaker 1: the country. You know, there's top talent here, which is
21:46
Speaker 1: which is sad for California, but good for other states
21:49
Speaker 1: that they're getting this.
21:50
Speaker 2: Yeah. If there's a big change of what I've seen
21:54
Speaker 2: in just four years of of you know, solely focused
21:58
Speaker 2: on executive recruiting is the pandemic has been good in
22:07
Speaker 2: a lot of regards. A lot of good things have
22:12
Speaker 2: come out of that acceptance to you know, having conversations
22:17
Speaker 2: over teams or zoom. You don't have to travel as much,
22:22
Speaker 2: which lends to you know, affording a little more flexibility
22:26
Speaker 2: in your job. You don't have to spend four nights
22:28
Speaker 2: out every week if you're traveling or things of that nature.
22:32
Speaker 2: You can do this maybe you know, cutting your travel
22:35
Speaker 2: budget by by being able to hop onto a call
22:37
Speaker 2: with AAH. One of the other big big things I've
22:44
Speaker 2: seen change is our cycle coming out of of the pandemic,
22:53
Speaker 2: rapid hiring frenzy. I mean it was people were leaving
22:56
Speaker 2: for for lateral moves, you know, getting a thirty dollars
23:01
Speaker 2: bump and pay for really doing the same thing that's
23:05
Speaker 2: now kind of flip flopped. I see a little more,
23:09
Speaker 2: a little more favor on the client side. We're not
23:14
Speaker 2: seeing moves for extravagant amounts of money for the same
23:19
Speaker 2: types of roles and and every every market, every product
23:24
Speaker 2: has cycles. We're definitely in that cycle now. In the
23:28
Speaker 2: last sixty days, I have seen a lot of increased
23:31
Speaker 2: activity in companies. I blame it on being an election year,
23:36
Speaker 2: but I've started to see a lot more. Hey, it's
23:39
Speaker 2: time we've sat on our hands long enough. You know,
23:43
Speaker 2: if we're going to if we're going to meet our
23:45
Speaker 2: companies goals and objectives, we've got to start finding the
23:48
Speaker 2: right talent now. And that's the good thing for a
23:52
Speaker 2: candidate for the A players. There's never a recession for
23:58
Speaker 2: good talent. It's our job as leaders to continually seek
24:02
Speaker 2: it out, and once we find it, we've got to
24:06
Speaker 2: be able to demonstrate how and why this new opportunity
24:12
Speaker 2: should appeal to you.
24:13
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Absolutely. One of the things we talked about
24:17
Speaker 1: when we met before the podcast. I really liked it
24:20
Speaker 1: because you and I are very passionate about some of
24:22
Speaker 1: the tools. I was talking about knowing yourself like I
24:25
Speaker 1: know yourself to lead yourself and some of these things,
24:27
Speaker 1: and so I thought it'd be if you're up for
24:29
Speaker 1: a great just briefly, one of the things you do,
24:33
Speaker 1: you know, as a recruiter to help make sure that
24:35
Speaker 1: you're getting the right ideal candidate matched up with, you know,
24:39
Speaker 1: the Protectric company, what are the things that you're looking for?
24:42
Speaker 1: Like you said, that kind of forward thing for them,
24:44
Speaker 1: But what should that candidate be looking for? You know?
24:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, So so one of the things kind of you know,
24:51
Speaker 2: answering that question again of what makes you any different
24:55
Speaker 2: is that focus on retention. So and knowing that behavior
25:04
Speaker 2: is a reason why most people leave leave their role
25:10
Speaker 2: within the first year. Let's look at that first. So
25:14
Speaker 2: one of the things I use, I use a company
25:16
Speaker 2: called McQuaig out of Toronto, Canada that does a psychometric
25:21
Speaker 2: testing evaluation. We have, you know, when I get a
25:26
Speaker 2: narrow handful of candidates, I have them complete a word
25:29
Speaker 2: survey that builds two profiles. One profile being their situational profile,
25:35
Speaker 2: which measures their characteristics and behaviors of who they think
25:39
Speaker 2: they have to be and how they think they're perceived
25:42
Speaker 2: in their current role. Then it also builds their natural profile.
25:47
Speaker 2: So that's great to know about a candidate, but I
25:50
Speaker 2: also have the clients do a job survey through mcquig
25:56
Speaker 2: as well, and that builds a profile of the characteristics
26:00
Speaker 2: and behaviors that they feel that person should have for
26:04
Speaker 2: them to have success in that role. And I think
26:07
Speaker 2: it's great for both sides. It helps us identify quickly
26:13
Speaker 2: whether someone's the right fit behaviorally, something that we can
26:17
Speaker 2: add besides just looking because technically you look at a
26:20
Speaker 2: resume and they say, boy, this is the perfect fit. Yes,
26:23
Speaker 2: we don't know all this softer side of things well,
26:27
Speaker 2: and this you know, it doesn't automatically exclude or include anybody,
26:32
Speaker 2: but if there's a difference in who they think this
26:36
Speaker 2: somebody should be and who who they are, if they
26:40
Speaker 2: can demonstrate hey I can do this, because here's some
26:43
Speaker 2: two or three hard examples of how it's not natural
26:48
Speaker 2: for me, but I can't do it. And I've seen
26:51
Speaker 2: people who are not matches for a role based on
26:53
Speaker 2: their behavior characteristics that were hired and are doing outstanding
27:00
Speaker 2: because we had trusted up front we know how. It's
27:03
Speaker 2: also a great tool for uh, you know, for that
27:06
Speaker 2: hiring manager. Use as a coaching tool. Hey, I've noticed
27:10
Speaker 2: a change in this employee's behavior. You know, maybe I
27:13
Speaker 2: need to, you know, pull them aside and just say, hey,
27:17
Speaker 2: how's things going? What you know, what are you working on?
27:21
Speaker 2: Is there anything I can help with? Just gives you
27:24
Speaker 2: a little you know, the ability to look ahead a
27:28
Speaker 2: little bit and and understand who somebody is. And and
27:32
Speaker 2: that to me helps add to building and defining your culture.
27:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh, one hundred percent. I mean that that's my passion.
27:40
Speaker 1: I use a different framework. I told you about the
27:42
Speaker 1: five voices and others, but but same thing. If if
27:45
Speaker 1: if if I'm a candidate or you know, I'm considering myself,
27:48
Speaker 1: the better I know myself, my skills, where my strengths are,
27:51
Speaker 1: and where I may struggle. Like you said, Greig, it's
27:55
Speaker 1: just going to help you if you can articulate that
27:57
Speaker 1: well you know, those dynamics is going to help you.
28:00
Speaker 1: You kind of be a filter for that opportunity. Like
28:03
Speaker 1: you said, Hey, you know, like I said, on paper,
28:05
Speaker 1: it looks good, but based on the way they operate,
28:08
Speaker 1: it may not be a match culturally. The way your
28:11
Speaker 1: the behaviors of that organization. I like how you do it,
28:14
Speaker 1: like you said, you do it for the organization as well,
28:16
Speaker 1: not just the candidate to see where that's a map,
28:19
Speaker 1: because that's sometimes I think we forget that. We just
28:22
Speaker 1: look at these individuals. We say, this organization, this this entity,
28:25
Speaker 1: if you will, this is how this entity behaves, and
28:27
Speaker 1: this is what it not good or bad, just this
28:30
Speaker 1: is the way it is. And that may or may
28:32
Speaker 1: not match up with that with that candidate, right.
28:35
Speaker 2: That's right, And you know that to me is is
28:38
Speaker 2: just that's that's my differentiator is Yes, it aids in
28:43
Speaker 2: our recruitment today, but it's really focused on that one year,
28:49
Speaker 2: two year anniversary of how we retain that employee mm hm.
28:54
Speaker 2: As we're investing up front and understanding who the who
28:57
Speaker 2: you are as a candidate, who we're bringing into the company,
29:01
Speaker 2: how we're going to work with you, develop you, and
29:05
Speaker 2: and provide you a launch pad for your for your
29:08
Speaker 2: career and for yourself personally.
29:11
Speaker 1: Right.
29:12
Speaker 2: Absolutely, this isn't for everybody, you know. I mean, it
29:15
Speaker 2: doesn't work with every client, and not every client wants
29:18
Speaker 2: to utilize it. Those are the ones I typically weed
29:21
Speaker 2: out too. It's like, hey, you know what, I would
29:24
Speaker 2: love to have job security because we're probably going to
29:27
Speaker 2: keep replacing people for you all the time. You know,
29:29
Speaker 2: hiring new people. You know, I want to make sure
29:33
Speaker 2: for the candidate and for you you get the best,
29:36
Speaker 2: absolute best, uh situation for both parties.
29:41
Speaker 1: Well, I think it's so important because, like like you said,
29:43
Speaker 1: we talked last time we talked outside of the podcast
29:48
Speaker 1: was one of the things I mentioned you. I'd work
29:49
Speaker 1: with recruiters in the environmental consulting world, and like you said,
29:53
Speaker 1: on paper, they they they matched, you know, they said, yeah,
29:58
Speaker 1: they checked the boxes, but I could tell the recruiter didn't,
30:04
Speaker 1: like you said, understand the company culture. They understood the
30:08
Speaker 1: job description, like Okay, this is the job description, but
30:12
Speaker 1: like it didn't. I mean we could literally and sometimes
30:15
Speaker 1: we could just look at it even though they had technically,
30:18
Speaker 1: I'm like I could just tell based on their job
30:21
Speaker 1: history where they worked previously and some other elements, it
30:23
Speaker 1: was just like, this is not going to be a
30:27
Speaker 1: good fit. And I think, like you said, spending the
30:29
Speaker 1: extra time to get clearer on this as an organization
30:34
Speaker 1: is really important, like you said, doing that strategically and
30:38
Speaker 1: retaining your people being really really clear on this. I
30:42
Speaker 1: think sometimes businesses just want to skip over that somehow,
30:45
Speaker 1: and somehow they think, ah, I don't figure itself out right.
30:49
Speaker 2: They're they're more interested in reducing the commercial downtime. You know,
30:56
Speaker 2: Recruiting is expensive. Replacing an employee is expensive, you know.
31:01
Speaker 2: I think sometimes you know, if it's one hundred thousand
31:03
Speaker 2: dollars role uh, to replace that person probably has a
31:08
Speaker 2: three x impact on the business. Might be hard to
31:13
Speaker 2: quantify that, but when you add in recruitment, you add
31:17
Speaker 2: in you know, the downtime, you add in cost of benefits,
31:21
Speaker 2: the sunk cost of compensation that you paid that employee,
31:25
Speaker 2: and now you have to do it over again and
31:29
Speaker 2: ramp up the training process. You know, it's the dollars
31:33
Speaker 2: start to add up quickly.
31:35
Speaker 1: They do, and I think they just don't Sometimes they
31:37
Speaker 1: don't see it in that regard, like you're saying, Craig.
31:40
Speaker 1: But if the business owners can think that way, or
31:42
Speaker 1: at least bring in folks that you know, like yourself
31:45
Speaker 1: to help them to see that and say, hey, here's
31:47
Speaker 1: how I can help you and help your team. I agree.
31:53
Speaker 1: It's because it can be a long process too. I
31:56
Speaker 1: was walking with a former colleague and she has been
31:58
Speaker 1: trying to hire a position. But she also recognized, you know,
32:03
Speaker 1: I don't want to hire too quickly just to fill
32:05
Speaker 1: the position, because that could just backfire too. It's like
32:08
Speaker 1: I go, I'm quote unquote solving the problem, not really
32:11
Speaker 1: solving the problem because it's, like I said, not a
32:13
Speaker 1: good fit. So she held out for one position for
32:15
Speaker 1: I think it was almost a year trying to make sure.
32:18
Speaker 1: You know, she had plenty of good candidates quote unquote,
32:21
Speaker 1: good candidates come in, but she's like, culturally, it's not
32:24
Speaker 1: a good fit in the leadership structure. And she was
32:27
Speaker 1: because she was through that went that through that storm
32:29
Speaker 1: of having some other leaders in there and coming and going,
32:33
Speaker 1: so you know, hiring somebody like you Craig to help
32:38
Speaker 1: guide them through the process here and the pitfalls that
32:41
Speaker 1: might happen to you know, giving them counsel right, and.
32:48
Speaker 2: Absolutely I joke with my wife, you know, I feel
32:53
Speaker 2: like a lot at the end of a lot of
32:55
Speaker 2: a lot of days, I've been more like doctor Phil
32:58
Speaker 2: than I have been a recruiter. A lot of coaching,
33:01
Speaker 2: a lot of listening, and but I think that's what
33:04
Speaker 2: separates uh, you know, uh good recruiters from great recruiters
33:09
Speaker 2: is is uh being transparent, being open what you're walking into.
33:17
Speaker 2: You know, one of the things that I always work
33:19
Speaker 2: with clients on is we have to be very cognizant
33:25
Speaker 2: of the candidate experience because it's a direct reflection upon
33:31
Speaker 2: you as a leader and how your business operates. So
33:37
Speaker 2: let's let's set some expectations. You know, one of the
33:39
Speaker 2: old metrics that people still use a lot is well,
33:42
Speaker 2: what's your days to fill? How many days will it
33:45
Speaker 2: be before I have a candidate in place? And and
33:49
Speaker 2: you know my responses is that really depends on you?
33:55
Speaker 2: Is this urgent? And you know, can you commit If
34:02
Speaker 2: if you answer the question is it urgent? And you
34:04
Speaker 2: answer yes, then okay, will you commit to two weeks
34:11
Speaker 2: from the day you're blocking off the afternoon, we're going
34:15
Speaker 2: to have three interviews. Block off the next week for
34:18
Speaker 2: a second interview a certain day and time.
34:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, can you commit to that? Right?
34:24
Speaker 2: They say, Hey, I can't commit to that. I'm too busy. Okay,
34:28
Speaker 2: well then I can't answer the days to fill?
34:31
Speaker 1: Right?
34:31
Speaker 2: It takes sixty, it could take ninety, it could take
34:35
Speaker 2: you know, a year. I don't know. It's up to you.
34:38
Speaker 2: How fast do you want to do this? And can
34:40
Speaker 2: you commit?
34:43
Speaker 1: That's what it's that that's a great perspective, Craig, because
34:46
Speaker 1: I think about that if they're not thinking about, like
34:50
Speaker 1: you said, the commitment to me, you're going after this,
34:53
Speaker 1: what's the time involved, the frequency all you know, the duration,
34:58
Speaker 1: the frequency that needs to happen. Reality check, like you said,
35:01
Speaker 1: I think they need to hear a reality check. It's
35:03
Speaker 1: not going to be you know, to do this right
35:05
Speaker 1: to get the right people, you know, kind of rough
35:08
Speaker 1: a timeline and the amount of as far as hey,
35:11
Speaker 1: you know, if you want this fast, like you said,
35:13
Speaker 1: well we're going to have to set up you know,
35:15
Speaker 1: bi weekly interviews or I'm gonna do court you know
35:17
Speaker 1: whatever that you know, all the processes right. So I
35:21
Speaker 1: don't know. Sometimes they think it's a wave of a
35:23
Speaker 1: magic wand or something and like it'll just happen.
35:26
Speaker 2: Right.
35:27
Speaker 1: What's the reality of the investment that you're going to
35:29
Speaker 1: I mean, this is like you said, recruiting is expensive.
35:31
Speaker 1: So we want to make sure that we're getting the
35:34
Speaker 1: most out of it and not just trying to rush
35:37
Speaker 1: through this and hope that we just kind of find
35:40
Speaker 1: the right person. You know, Hope is.
35:43
Speaker 2: A bad tactic, you know, wanting to have, but it's
35:50
Speaker 2: a bad tactic when it comes to recruiting talent.
35:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, don't don't hope. Let's have a plan. Is there
35:55
Speaker 1: things that, like you said, I want to go back.
35:58
Speaker 1: I really like your idea of the strategy, and there's
36:00
Speaker 1: if there's things that kind of you can build into
36:04
Speaker 1: what I say, building future proof recruitment or retention that
36:08
Speaker 1: business goods can be doing internally within their company and externally.
36:13
Speaker 1: You know the things you you would recommend to start.
36:15
Speaker 1: You know, hey, if you just started doing this today,
36:17
Speaker 1: what you know, what's it say? Like? Build? You know,
36:21
Speaker 1: planting the tree right? When's the best day? Twenty years ago?
36:23
Speaker 1: But if you do it now? What would they should
36:25
Speaker 1: be thinking about proactively doing to attract and retain top talent.
36:33
Speaker 2: Transparency Number one. Regardless of level in a company, if
36:41
Speaker 2: it's an entry level role or whether it's an executive role,
36:46
Speaker 2: people want to know how they fit into that. What
36:49
Speaker 2: impact am I going to have? Define that first and foremost,
36:54
Speaker 2: before you start a job search or or a recruitment,
37:01
Speaker 2: be honest with yourself where we're going and how we're
37:07
Speaker 2: going to get there. And the strategy is one thing.
37:12
Speaker 2: Then we come back to the tactics. How are we
37:15
Speaker 2: going to execute that? That will define who we're looking for.
37:19
Speaker 2: So in my process, I want to work through that
37:23
Speaker 2: and make sure that you and I, that you know,
37:26
Speaker 2: the hiring manager and I are fully aligned. So I,
37:31
Speaker 2: you know, one of the things that I dislike is is, hey,
37:35
Speaker 2: let's send a test candidate over right, you know, a
37:38
Speaker 2: candidate for alignment. Hey, yeah, they're you know, they're eighty
37:41
Speaker 2: percent of what we're looking for, but we really like this.
37:45
Speaker 2: That's a waste of time. Let's define that up front
37:48
Speaker 2: so that when I and I present three candidates for
37:52
Speaker 2: your for your evaluation and interviewing, we know that they're
37:58
Speaker 2: going to be able to do the job. I make
38:01
Speaker 2: sure that they would accept the job, that they're in
38:05
Speaker 2: a place where they're able to accept if they want to,
38:08
Speaker 2: if it's if it's aligned with their goals and strategies
38:11
Speaker 2: for their career. So transparency with yourself number one under
38:17
Speaker 2: of understanding where you're going and strategically and then how
38:21
Speaker 2: we're going to tactically recruit to meet those goals and objectives.
38:28
Speaker 2: The second thing is is everybody's a customer, internal external,
38:34
Speaker 2: everyone's a customer. We want to make sure we're a
38:38
Speaker 2: good company, that we we do the right things that
38:43
Speaker 2: we develop our talent, whether they are developed internally or
38:48
Speaker 2: whether we acquire somebody externally, that there's still a path
38:52
Speaker 2: for development. And and even if there's you know, there's
38:56
Speaker 2: a lot of companies I work I work with a
38:58
Speaker 2: lot of mid sized companies. You know, somebody that probably
39:01
Speaker 2: doesn't have a robust HR department, doesn't have a learning
39:05
Speaker 2: and a learning and development arm so they need a
39:10
Speaker 2: lot of guidance and assistance. What do we need to do?
39:13
Speaker 2: How do we develop this? So having a lot of
39:17
Speaker 2: these things up front, Transparency, working on strategy and tactics,
39:24
Speaker 2: treating everybody internally and externally as as customers, builds culture
39:33
Speaker 2: and find your culture, and then understanding what your purpose
39:39
Speaker 2: is and how that's going to appeal to people in
39:43
Speaker 2: the market. That's going to make it make my job easier.
39:46
Speaker 1: Absolutely. If you're not clear on that, like you said,
39:50
Speaker 1: I mean it sounds I mean you hear it. But
39:53
Speaker 1: the vision, the mission, the values are they just words
39:57
Speaker 1: on a piece of paper or on the wall. Do
39:59
Speaker 1: you of them? Do you breathe them? Like you said,
40:01
Speaker 1: do your clients experience them? Do you guys talk about
40:04
Speaker 1: this regularly? You know, are you are you clear on
40:07
Speaker 1: this or is it is it muddled? And I think,
40:10
Speaker 1: like you said, if you have the transparency and the
40:12
Speaker 1: clarity of this, people are going to actually it's either
40:16
Speaker 1: going to attract or repel, hopefully in a good, good ways.
40:19
Speaker 1: Right You're polarizing to where this is who we are
40:22
Speaker 1: and it's for the people that really get it and
40:23
Speaker 1: the other people that don't. Great, we don't we you know,
40:26
Speaker 1: God bless you keep going, But that's we're not.
40:28
Speaker 2: For you, right right right? Leaders? You know, leaders shape
40:32
Speaker 2: shape culture, but your employees are the ones who define it.
40:36
Speaker 2: M You can guide it as a leader, you can
40:40
Speaker 2: help develop it and perfect it, but your employees, they'll
40:45
Speaker 2: define your culture for you.
40:47
Speaker 1: Mm hmm yeah, ask them, check with them, see see
40:50
Speaker 1: what they know? Where are they at, what are they
40:52
Speaker 1: what are they like? You said, what do they value?
40:54
Speaker 1: How do they show up there? You've given us so
40:57
Speaker 1: many great things here, Uh, Craig about share. I know
41:01
Speaker 1: we can go deeper, but I wanted to. I'm so
41:04
Speaker 1: glad you shared these points, and I think I hope
41:07
Speaker 1: that this episode gets people to start thinking a little
41:10
Speaker 1: bit more intentionally, more strategically, like you're saying, Craig like
41:13
Speaker 1: and and if they're struggling. The beautiful thing about the
41:16
Speaker 1: Business round Table podcast, you could reach out to Craig.
41:19
Speaker 1: He's a top voice on LinkedIn. Actually, I love your
41:22
Speaker 1: content that you're putting out there, Craig. Every day you're
41:24
Speaker 1: gonna find something out there, an insightful piece, and you
41:28
Speaker 1: can of course reach out to me. That's why we
41:31
Speaker 1: create the Business Roundtable podcast as a way of creating
41:33
Speaker 1: value and sharing our knowledge and wisdom so that you
41:36
Speaker 1: can say, hey, this is a guy that knows the
41:38
Speaker 1: stuff that he can help me. And Craig is one
41:40
Speaker 1: of these guys with recruiting. So last thoughts Craig is
41:42
Speaker 1: we're kind of wrapping up the podcast just as folks are,
41:45
Speaker 1: you know, struggling working their way through you know, recruiting
41:49
Speaker 1: and retention. Just what would you last bits of thoughts
41:52
Speaker 1: on this podcast today?
41:55
Speaker 2: You know, it's you know, working with recruiters is not
42:00
Speaker 2: for everybody. Find somebody. I think there's you know that
42:06
Speaker 2: that's one of the things about recruitment. There's a very
42:08
Speaker 2: low low bar to hurdle to to get into recruiting.
42:13
Speaker 2: I think working with companies or individuals that have a
42:17
Speaker 2: a strong professional background, have have been there, have sat
42:21
Speaker 2: in your seat, but now choose to focus on on
42:27
Speaker 2: you know, the biggest piece and the most important piece
42:30
Speaker 2: of any business is its people. And that's what I
42:33
Speaker 2: like to bring to the table. Let me play your
42:37
Speaker 2: general manager and and and find that seventh round draft pick.
42:41
Speaker 2: That's that's a steal. And uh, you know that everybody
42:45
Speaker 2: else overlooked and and maybe it's uh my philosophy. I
42:49
Speaker 2: guess I'd leave you with this. Everybody's an a player.
42:53
Speaker 2: M H. It's our job as leaders to make sure
42:56
Speaker 2: that they're in the right position to have person own
43:00
Speaker 2: professional success. Yes, it takes effort, it takes work. Every
43:05
Speaker 2: day you have to work on that. If you increase
43:10
Speaker 2: your focus ten percent in that area as a leader,
43:14
Speaker 2: I don't know. I wish I had a percentage of
43:16
Speaker 2: how much that would increase your business. But it'll pay
43:19
Speaker 2: off with with great dividends.
43:21
Speaker 1: Absolutely. Absolutely, Graig so much, Thank you so much for
43:25
Speaker 1: being on the Business Roundtable podcast. It's a pleasure having you.
43:28
Speaker 2: It's great to find somebody with the shame same philosophies
43:32
Speaker 2: and and uh outlook on the on the person on
43:36
Speaker 2: the people side of business.
43:38
Speaker 1: Absolutely, you're so grateful again. For those of you listening,
43:43
Speaker 1: are watching us on YouTube, or catching us on LinkedIn,
43:45
Speaker 1: we appreciate your subscriptions, your comments, sharing this with others.
43:50
Speaker 1: If you found value in that come back. We have
43:52
Speaker 1: another great episode next week. Until then, take everybody, thanks
43:55
Speaker 1: for listening in. Thanks Greg, Thanks David,