Latest / Rusty's Garage / Brad Jones (Part 1)

Transcript

Brad Jones (Part 1) · Rusty's Garage

• 0:02
  A listener production.
• 0:11
  I'm automotive commentator and journalist Greg Rust and this is Rusty's Garage.
• 0:27
  I've done a little road trip for this episode from Melbourne, where I've been working, to Albury on the New South Wales-Victorian border.
• 0:34
  It's home for Brad Jones and his BJR, or Brad Jones Racing Supercars team, which has entries in all tiers of the sport and has occupied a few buildings in the little cul-de-sac that has been home for this operation now for decades.
• 0:49
  While most teams are either in Brisbane, the Gold Coast, or Melbourne, the Jones boys made the rural setting work –
• 0:56
  And there's a great family culture that is a real strength of this setup.
• 1:00
  It stems from the humble beginnings with Brad and his brother, Kim, who only stepped away from the business in relatively recent time.
• 1:08
  Kim still loves racing and we'll chat to him for the podcast at some stage down the track.
• 1:13
  His son Andy is impressed on the broadcasting side when I've worked with him and has driven successfully for this squad too.
• 1:20
  But it's Brad who's the focus of today's edition of The Garage.
• 1:24
  Many of you have requested this one, so I'm really pleased that we can finally do it and record it in person in the boardroom at the race shop.
• 1:33
  We'll chat about he and Kim, their early days, the big names that came around for post-race barbecues when they were growing up thanks to their dad's deep connection with the sport.
• 1:44
  Making ends meet as Brad tried to carve a career behind the wheel.
• 1:48
  Memories of the great Peter Brock.
• 1:51
  The late Jason Richards.
• 1:53
  His close friendship with Hall of Famer Neil Crompton.
• 1:56
  A cool memory with Barry Sheen.
• 1:58
  A car you may not expect that he is especially proud to have driven.
• 2:03
  Bit of NASCAR, Oscar, super touring in those awesome Audis, his son Macaulay's own career, and we'll tackle some of your questions.
• 2:12
  Because there are so many, I tried to wrap them up generically in the chat.
• 2:16
  We couldn't get to all of them, but I'm very grateful for the messages.
• 2:20
  And I'm sorry if I didn't thank you personally as the conversation unfolded for those questions.
• 2:25
  Some stories you may have heard before, others I'm glad we unearthed or went a little deeper on.
• 2:32
  Full credit to Brad for sharing.
• 2:34
  I've known him since my first major commercial TV jobs when I covered the 2Litre series for Channel 10.
• 2:41
  He's always had a great sense of humour and a terrific way with words.
• 2:46
  That rapport in his animated style of conversation oozes through the microphone to make this one of our most memorable episodes.
• 2:54
  And I'm very proud to have helped him share it.
• 2:57
  But I know there are so many more tales tucked away.
• 3:01
  What a life.
• 3:03
  This special episode is brought to you by a mutual supercars partner in Pizza Hut.
• 3:08
  We begin with early life around the twin towns, Albury and Wodonga on either side of the Murray River and the legendary Hume Wears circuit.
• 3:16
  And the stars that would drop round once racing was done to the Jones House for a barbecue.
• 3:24
  My life in car racing started very early on.
• 3:28
  My dad, it would be remiss of me not to tell a little story about him.
• 3:32
  He came from Holbrook originally, and he was into horse riding and used to ride in rodeos and things, and he...
• 3:41
  But when he was 16, he caught polio and he went to the Aubrey Grammar School here.
• 3:46
  In those days, all the roads were dirt.
• 3:48
  And so with polio sufferers in those days, they immediately put them in plaster.
• 3:53
  And so they took him to the Royal North Shore Hospital in England.
• 3:57
  Sydney and they put him in plaster from his hips to his ankles and they left him there for two years and then a lady came along named sister Kenny Who helped revolutionize the treatment of polio sufferers and So she picked dad because he was quite a a
• 4:15
  tough example and young and she cut the plaster off him i can remember him telling me she used to tie his calves to the front of a wheelchair and he had to hold himself up with his arms until he couldn't anymore and then slowly as he ran out of strength it would start the legs moving again and then she started physio so in the end he walked with a caliper on on one leg and a spring to keep his foot up on the other and and um um
• 4:40
  then when he finally came back to Walbury, um, or Holbrook, he was, couldn't obviously ride a horse or, or do any of that stuff.
• 4:48
  And he, he'd lost interest in that a little bit, but had a love affair with cars.
• 4:52
  And so, um, his best friend, Jack Holm, um, built him a car and, and, um,
• 4:57
  with hand controls and so dad you know drove that thing around it was just a you know my brother could tell you more about it but but it's um it was it was a car they built up and then his dad bought him a tfmg and and dad then kim came along and then i came along and and
• 5:17
  Dad was the president of the car club in Albury for 16 or 18 years or something.
• 5:22
  And so we'd be all the working bees and we'd be out the track.
• 5:27
  And as you said, Bob Jane was my godfather or our godfather.
• 5:33
  And when he came to Albury for the team arts, he'd stay at our house and Brian Thompson would do the same thing.
• 5:40
  And on a Saturday night of a race meeting, we'd go to the local television station
• 5:45
  station which is called amv4 but it's prime now and they'd host dad would host so he'd stand there with a microphone and he'd interview the the the drivers so they'd push in in norm beachy and brian thompson and bob jane and dad would interview the three of them they'd go an ad break they'd push them
• 6:02
  And then they'd push in three FJs and push them out after that and open wheelers.
• 6:07
  And so, you know, we were – Kim and I were immersed in motor racing since we were little kids.
• 6:13
  And then after that show finished, everyone would come back to our place for a barbecue.
• 6:18
  And so there'd be, you know –
• 6:21
  lots of motorsport people lurking around our house.
• 6:24
  And then Sunday we'd get up and go to the races.
• 6:27
  And it was an amazing way to be involved in car racing and those personalities.
• 6:35
  And even to this day...
• 6:37
  I have a great relationship with Brian Thompson.
• 6:39
  I haven't seen Tomo for a while, but Peter Fowler, who built that car.
• 6:44
  Obviously, Bob Jane I had a lot to do with over my life.
• 6:49
  Bob used to have a holiday home down at Mulwala, and we used to go down there lots of weekends during the year and Christmas.
• 6:58
  It was quite amazing when you look back at it.
• 7:02
  Do you look back and think a little bit surreal?
• 7:04
  Because maybe it was normalised for you then.
• 7:05
  It was, you know, these people would come around.
• 7:07
  They obviously knew your dad and respected him.
• 7:09
  And, you know, now when you think about it, if you tried to draw a modern parallel, that's pretty awesome, isn't it?
• 7:15
  Yeah, it's a little bit crazy.
• 7:17
  My dad was a car salesman.
• 7:18
  And so...
• 7:21
  He started off selling used cars and then he ended up with his own car yard which was with Phil Jones Motors and then he went broke just in time for me and Kim to want to start racing cars and so that wasn't handy.
• 7:34
  But it was amazing when we were doing the throwbacks in supercars, a lot of people were going back and doing the cars that the company ran but Kim and I decided to go back and do our heroes cars.
• 7:49
  So we did Norm Beachy's, you know, and we did the Neptune car, we did the Chevy Nova, we did the, not the Tirana, the Monaro, all the cool cars that we used to love when we were kids.
• 8:06
  And we had a connection with them.
• 8:07
  We did Bob Jane and, you know, we were going to do Brian Thompson next and, you know,
• 8:13
  So we had a really clear picture of our youth and what was great and what was difficult.
• 8:19
  When we went back and started looking through pictures, because Bob used to paint his cars orange, we didn't really want to run three orange cars.
• 8:27
  So I went back and was looking at all these photos and I found a picture with Spencer Martin in an Elfin at Hume Weir and the old dummy grid.
• 8:37
  And in the background was a blue EH with a white roof.
• 8:41
  And I remember that because my dad.
• 8:42
  had one and then there was this little kid inside the car and looked like he'd locked his slightly older brother outside the car and clearly that's me and kim and then my dad standing at the back a bit and it's you know that was it that was for us that was growing up it was it was uh it was amazing time and as you said you never you know i you never think about too much i can remember
• 9:05
  our next door neighbor uh his name is stephen morcombe and he started racing cars late in life and ended up with a formula 2 car but they did an interview in auto action with him and said you know what was one of the earliest memories of motorsport and he said he can remember waking up one morning and looking out his window and seeing a dragster in his next door neighbor's yard and and that was in under the carport our place it was ash marshall's dragster and
• 9:32
  who was the Australian champion at the time and he was a friend of my dad's and they were going through and so they backed the dragster under the carport and left it there for the night and stayed at night at our house and away they went.
• 9:45
  So it was crazy times.
• 9:47
  You take it for granted when you're a kid.
• 9:49
  It doesn't really mean that much to you but I've got a poster on the wall in my office.
• 9:54
  I don't have much stuff in my office to be honest.
• 9:58
  There's a few key photos I've got
• 10:00
  I've got one of Jason Richards.
• 10:01
  I've got one of Jason Bright when we first won our championship.
• 10:04
  I've got two of me driving the R8 Audi at Adelaide.
• 10:08
  Adelaide.
• 10:08
  And then I've got a huge picture of a Hume Weir poster, genuine poster that I got from the Albury Car Club.
• 10:16
  And I can remember as a kid having that exact same poster on the wall in my bedroom.
• 10:21
  They were just all covered in motorsport stuff.
• 10:23
  And so, yeah, so it was, you know, it was an amazing youth.
• 10:29
  Yeah.
• 10:29
  When was the first foray for you as far as competition was concerned?
• 10:33
  And am I right in saying, because I reckon he's recounted it in the podcast chat we've had, it was two wheels and dirt bikes and sort of early recollections of Krompo.
• 10:40
  Is that right?
• 10:40
  Have I got that right?
• 10:41
  Yeah, well, I mean, really, Kim and I were racing stuff recently
• 10:45
  from the minute we started, you know, we started with slot cars and they had a big slot car track here and we used to, you know, have a lunch box with, you know, three or four slot cars in it.
• 10:54
  We'd go down there and then after that was push bikes and then motorbikes and as you said, race against Crompton –
• 11:00
  And then into cars.
• 11:01
  So, you know, Kim got into racing cars before me.
• 11:05
  So we got a couple of Elfins off Bob Jane, which were part of the Frank Gardner Driving School.
• 11:09
  He sent them up to dad.
• 11:10
  And Kim, as he does, beautifully restored his.
• 11:14
  And mine just sort of sat there because I still wanted to race motorbikes for a living.
• 11:19
  And, um, and then, uh, um, the bike thing didn't really work out for me.
• 11:25
  I was, you know, dad went broke and I'd been racing bikes a lot since I was a kid and I just needed a break from it really.
• 11:32
  And, and, um, but you look back in time and think to yourself, you know, a lot of the guys I was racing against, Robbie Phyllis and Graham Geddes and those guys were all off road racing and doing really well.
• 11:44
  And, um,
• 11:45
  I had a ride on Kim's TZ one day and didn't really like it much.
• 11:49
  But, you know, another day we went down to Winton with a go-kart and one of my short-circuit bikes on slicks, and that was a different kettle of fish.
• 11:58
  But, you know, I was lucky enough.
• 12:01
  I mean, it's a bit of a long story, but I just ended up in car racing as well.
• 12:05
  Did you, were you any good at school?
• 12:08
  And when did the foray into, because you're a smash repairer, I think.
• 12:12
  Is that right?
• 12:12
  By trade, what did you do when you first left school?
• 12:14
  Come on.
• 12:15
  Well, I was going to be a professional motocross rider.
• 12:17
  And I can remember I didn't realise my dad was going broke.
• 12:20
  And I wandered in there one day and he said, what are you doing?
• 12:25
  You know, I was 16 or something.
• 12:27
  And I said, oh, it's too odd to train, Dad.
• 12:31
  And he said, well, you're not serious about it.
• 12:33
  We'll get you a job.
• 12:34
  And I went, what?
• 12:36
  And then he rang up and said, what do you want to be?
• 12:38
  And I went, I don't know, a motocross rider.
• 12:39
  And he said, no, no, what else would you be?
• 12:42
  And I went, I don't know, maybe a sign rider or a spray painter.
• 12:44
  So he rang a sign rider and he said no.
• 12:47
  And then he rang a panel shop and told him he'd get all dad's used car work.
• 12:52
  And like 30 seconds later, I had a job, so I'm a spray painter by trade.
• 12:56
  But going back to school, no, I was a terrible student really.
• 13:01
  Maths was about the only thing that interested me.
• 13:03
  I had a teacher I liked and so I was in a reasonable, you know, I think it was in three or four maybe was in those days, you know,
• 13:11
  based on how intelligent you were, depended on what number you were represented in class.
• 13:16
  It's not like now where everyone that competes gets a ribbon.
• 13:19
  Yes.
• 13:21
  You were very, very segregated based on how unintelligent or unintelligent you seemed to be at the time.
• 13:27
  So I was in four for maths, but like seven for English.
• 13:31
  I hated my English teacher.
• 13:33
  and um so and i hardly ever went to school so i was mondays i was still sore and tired from racing on the weekend and you know fridays i was sort of going away racing and you know it never i didn't like sport much and i was always you know instead of doing sport i'd be out training on my push bike so so i didn't end up with a school certificate i didn't end up with any sort of you
• 13:55
  uh acknowledgement that i'd even been to school really so it's crazy and then the funny thing was when i was racing cars and starting to do well um mr emerson who's my science teacher um called me one day and said um we'd like you to come down this is when my kids
• 14:12
  We'd like you to come down and talk to the kids here about, you know, chasing your dreams and...
• 14:18
  Determination.
• 14:19
  Yeah, yeah, all that sort of stuff, which made me really, really laugh because there was plenty of teachers that didn't think I'd go much further than the local jail.
• 14:26
  So I can remember he said, you know, how long do you want me to talk?
• 14:31
  And he goes, 10 minutes.
• 14:33
  An hour later.
• 14:35
  Yeah.
• 14:36
  And then I said, okay, I can do it.
• 14:38
  What day is it?
• 14:38
  And I said, look, I don't want to embarrass my kids.
• 14:40
  And he goes, oh, no, no, no, they'll love it.
• 14:41
  And I went, I'm not sure they will, but I'll talk to them as long as they're okay with it.
• 14:45
  I'll come and do it.
• 14:47
  So they were okay with it.
• 14:48
  And he said to the principal's office, and I said, okay.
• 14:51
  He goes, you know where that is?
• 14:53
  And I said, has it moved?
• 14:54
  Sure do.
• 14:55
  And he went, no, and I reckon I can find it without too much trouble.
• 14:58
  I spent a lot of time in there.
• 15:00
  So, yeah, so it's funny how things work out.
• 15:02
  But, you know, obviously being street smart in life really counts for a lot.
• 15:08
  I mean, I really wish I had paid more attention in English as well as maths because I think they're two things you need to get through life.
• 15:15
  But, you know, it was an interesting way of growing up.
• 15:21
  Is it a combination of everything then, like your dad's determination that you've
• 15:25
  recounted there, some of the street smarts that you've learnt along the way.
• 15:28
  Are these all the Brad Jones facets, you know, the university of your life that have helped you to sort of get to this point, running four cars and a race team and so on?
• 15:37
  Yeah, I guess so.
• 15:38
  I mean, look, I just love cars.
• 15:40
  You know, and my brother, he's no different really.
• 15:43
  I mean, he's different in lots of ways to me.
• 15:46
  But my dad would ring up on a – or someone would ring him and want to rent the Humveeer.
• 15:53
  And he'd go, okay, I can come out in the afternoon I mean, this guy turned up in this brand new Elf And he'd driven over from Adelaide And he wanted to run around the human wheel I don't know why So he turns up with this beautiful car My dad went and got me out of school at lunchtime And so he said to him, okay, I'm paralysed
• 16:13
  Bradley's only 14, so don't do anything stupid because we're not going to be much help to you.
• 16:18
  And I just sit in the car and talk to Dad and these guys would drive these cars around.
• 16:22
  This particular guy did one lap and I remember he came out of Scrub Corner, went down the back straight, flat out in this thing.
• 16:31
  And I remember my dad looking across to me and going, oh, shit.
• 16:35
  And next thing is...
• 16:37
  boom boom boom boom boom we get around and there's this guy sitting in a tub and all the wheels are gone and and my man man he ripped into him he's like what were you thinking so then i helped him load everything in the trailer and then we went home but you know cars were were everything to me you weren't afraid uh you and kim to sort of to take a punt to have a go so in joining the dots here to get to car racing what was the first road car the very first car you ever got and then the
• 17:06
  Okay.
• 17:06
  Well, my dad had a lot of nice road cars.
• 17:10
  Being a car dealer, he had Porsches for a while because he was a Porsche dealer because we were friends with the Hamiltons and Alan Hamilton was – dad was the only regional Porsche dealer in the country.
• 17:22
  So, Kim's first car was an A50 Mini, which he cut the front off and put a fiberglass front on it and just destroyed.
• 17:31
  And then I had a HT Holden.
• 17:33
  And then what would happen is Dad would trade a car and it'd be an old car some old guy had.
• 17:38
  Yeah.
• 17:38
  we'd just destroy it, really.
• 17:40
  And so, but the HT had a, you know, I put a 186, one, six, one, three on the tree.
• 17:45
  So I put a 186 on it and tripled the Lortos and, you know, a camshaft you couldn't get over.
• 17:50
  And then it had no heater in it.
• 17:52
  And then I'd use that to turn my bikes to the races.
• 17:55
  But up until that, I had a mechanic that used to take me racing.
• 17:58
  And so, but that was, you know, that was when I was let loose a little bit.
• 18:02
  Yeah.
• 18:02
  When you had the financial troubles, how much did that set things back for you from a racing point of view?
• 18:06
  And how hard was that?
• 18:07
  Well, I hadn't really started racing cars and he went broke, but it changed a lot of things in my life.
• 18:15
  We went from being quite a comfortable family to living in a unit and been struggling.
• 18:23
  My mum had gotten sick and she couldn't work and dad didn't have a job really.
• 18:27
  And he went back into the car trade and I was running a panel shop, which was a nightmare.
• 18:32
  I was an 18-year-old kid.
• 18:34
  Do you call it BSR?
• 18:35
  Was it Brad Jones Smash Repairs or something?
• 18:38
  What did you call it?
• 18:40
  It ended up being, oh, I can't even remember, Brad Jones Auto Care or something.
• 18:44
  Okay.
• 18:45
  Yeah.
• 18:45
  Keep going.
• 18:46
  And so he came and worked for me.
• 18:49
  And so Frank Gardner said to me one day, Dad and Frank were very, very close.
• 18:54
  Had a good relationship, didn't he?
• 18:55
  Yeah.
• 18:55
  And Frank said, why don't you get your dad to work for you and generate some business for you?
• 19:00
  So I'm like, well, yeah, I mean, we have such a good relationship.
• 19:03
  Mm-hmm.
• 19:04
  So he did and he used to get us a pile of work and I think near the end of my years as a spray painter or a panel shop owner, you know, we had maybe 10 people working there.
• 19:14
  Wow.
• 19:14
  But it was a nightmare.
• 19:15
  I used to, I was hopeless at managing people.
• 19:17
  You know, I was 20, I started it when I was 19 with another local guy who was a spray painter and got out of it at 25 or 26 or something.
• 19:29
  And honestly, they were probably the worst years of my life.
• 19:31
  Were they?
• 19:31
  Were they?
• 19:32
  Were you sworn off then?
• 19:32
  Because as we sit here now, I mean, you've been in this building that I'm talking to you in for quite some time.
• 19:37
  I think even a Malibu boat started here way back in the day, I think, didn't they?
• 19:41
  Yeah, just next door in one of the sheds where the cars are.
• 19:43
  Yeah.
• 19:45
  So what happened was Kim drifted in and out of a few jobs and things.
• 19:53
  We started with Formula Fords and Chris Davison came along and I raced Kim's car at a race meeting.
• 19:58
  I mean, I used to flog around here in cars and we used to race around at night.
• 20:03
  Testing.
• 20:03
  Crazy, crazy, crazy stuff that you could never get away with now.
• 20:07
  I mean, we were actually looking for cops to chase us.
• 20:11
  Um, so you couldn't, you couldn't do any of that stuff nowadays.
• 20:15
  And, um, um, but you know, the, the, the, the driving of the cars probably came a little bit late.
• 20:21
  I mean, Kim was always interested in driving cars.
• 20:24
  I can remember we went to a sprint meeting out of the Humia and I was in the car with my mum and dad and then Kim had gone out with a couple of other guys and they had a Volkswagen Beetle.
• 20:33
  They cut the body off.
• 20:34
  And, um, I can remember this, this car came into view around the S's and my mum was quite prim and proper.
• 20:40
  And my dad's driving, we're in a one, three, two Fiat.
• 20:43
  And, um, yeah.
• 20:45
  My mum says, oh, my God, Philip, look at that little boy driving that car.
• 20:50
  Who would be silly enough to let their little son drive that?
• 20:54
  And as the car went past us, Kim turned and waved.
• 20:58
  Awesome.
• 20:59
  And that stifled his career for a while.
• 21:01
  She got dad to drag him out of that thing, and I reckon he got behind the wheel again for a while.
• 21:06
  But, you know, Kim kept the Formula Ford.
• 21:09
  Dad was really, you know, he had a great group of friends who really helped them and they put together a little group that helped make the payments on Kim's car because it was on finance.
• 21:22
  And Kim started racing that and, you know, like I'd come along and help but I'm no help because I'm not much of a mechanic.
• 21:29
  But Kimmy would race that and then...
• 21:31
  I had a race at Winton in it.
• 21:35
  It was my first race, like a state round.
• 21:36
  I raced against Chris Davison.
• 21:38
  Kim had raced before that.
• 21:40
  And anyway, Chris saw something in me and decided to help me.
• 21:44
  So he organized for me to go and test the 002 Elf and Elwyn, sorry, that Wally Story and Elwyn Bickley.
• 21:55
  built and so we went along and bought that on finance.
• 22:01
  But Chris organised Busley Mineral Water as a sponsor and he came to the races and that was the start of my relationship with Wally Storey and all those guys because that was like the really clicky, fast form of Ford click.
• 22:13
  And, you know, honestly, I was lazy like you couldn't believe.
• 22:17
  And I can remember going out to Amaru once and getting my driving suit, leaving it back at...
• 22:22
  Brad Haywood, who's a mate of mine, just raced spring cars, but I left.
• 22:25
  And it was like an hour and a half's drive.
• 22:28
  And so I missed practice and I was just stupid and young and didn't understand enough about it.
• 22:34
  But as the years went by, I sort of worked it out eventually.
• 22:38
  It must have been a level of natural ability that people picked up on.
• 22:40
  I mean, there was a good yarn that you told Noons about Kevin Bartlett, you know, and some of your early recollections of him and almost trying to outbreak each other and winking across at him or something along those lines.
• 22:52
  He became another figure that would sort of be in the background and help you along the way, wouldn't he?
• 22:58
  Yeah, it was an interesting...
• 23:00
  I was always...
• 23:05
  bitter is the wrong word i frustrated is a better word it's a bit frustrated we knew so many people in motorsport anyone who was anyone really was was i could find my way to them but to get help from them was not easy and and frustrating and and um
• 23:27
  And so Chris Davison was good with a former Ford, and then I had an accident in it, and at that point in my life, I wanted to go race motorbikes in Europe now, and a lot of my friends were road racing and doing really well, and so I wanted to race cars.
• 23:45
  And so I had to make a bit further down the road about a difficult decision to get out of my panel shop.
• 23:53
  and change my life and golf and go racing.
• 23:56
  But trying to get help when you had no money was hard.
• 24:01
  And the whole thing was hard.
• 24:03
  I know people think it's hard now, but it was just as hard then if you ask me in lots of ways.
• 24:09
  So working through that was tough.
• 24:13
  So I raced the Formula Ford.
• 24:15
  I remember coming back.
• 24:16
  Jack Bradman had just moved back to Australia, and he had a place at Waggon.
• 24:20
  It had a lot to do with Gary.
• 24:23
  He used to come and spend the weekends here.
• 24:24
  And so Jack, I remember he rang once, and Dad was out.
• 24:29
  you know talking someone into getting their car fixed and i said oh there's a phone call for your dad and he goes tell him i'll call back i said it's jack brabham and this is when jack had just moved back here and he's like and this woman was like who is it and oh my god you better get that phone call because ah tell him i'll call him back this is more important so so um you know we had a a good group anyway i can remember we were somewhere and sort of jack had been uh lurking around and frank gardener was there and it's
• 24:54
  Frank was very close to dad.
• 24:56
  I told him I wanted to go to Europe and race cars, race all my forwards.
• 24:59
  And the first question he asked me was, how much money you got?
• 25:02
  And I said, well, not a lot.
• 25:03
  You know, I can wreck my car.
• 25:05
  I'll probably get 10 grand when I sell that.
• 25:07
  And he goes, son, you'd be totally wasting your time.
• 25:11
  Go over there.
• 25:12
  He might go all right, might not.
• 25:13
  He said, you run out of money, come back, you'll be burnt out, you'll never race a car in your life.
• 25:17
  Again, stay here and work at it, and this is your best opportunity because to make it over there is almost impossible, which I didn't really understand at the time.
• 25:27
  And so I was like, oh, that's pretty disappointing.
• 25:30
  I thought I'd go over there and someone would see my talent and give me a bit of a hand.
• 25:34
  But I stayed here and it sort of worked out.
• 25:37
  I mean, it was a crazy life.
• 25:40
  Very quickly, Kim has always been working on my cars.
• 25:44
  And certainly with Chris Davison, he didn't like that.
• 25:47
  And so he'd make Kim park at one end of the pit area, me park down the other.
• 25:51
  Kim had all the tools.
• 25:52
  I didn't know what I was doing.
• 25:53
  And so then we had to hire a mechanic.
• 25:55
  So it was...
• 25:55
  It was a bit weird, but Kim Moore is intertwined in all that sort of stuff, especially racing.
• 26:02
  And then I got the opportunity to go and test the Mercedes that Brian Thompson and Peter Fowler, well, Peter Fowler owned at that point in time.
• 26:12
  And then I got to race that for a few years, and that was crazy going from a Formula Ford to a sports sedan.
• 26:18
  Awesome car in various guises or iterations.
• 26:21
  It was a very, very cool thing, wasn't it?
• 26:23
  Yeah, yeah, it was.
• 26:24
  It was, and fast, you know.
• 26:26
  And, like, at the end when it had twin-turbo engines in it, we raced it, sand down against all those Porsches that came out for the World Endurance Championship.
• 26:34
  I mean, it was as fast as those things in a straight line.
• 26:36
  Crazy.
• 26:37
  You'd break at 300 and they'd break at 50, so that was a bit unnerving.
• 26:40
  But, you know, it was...
• 26:43
  we suffered a little bit from, from reliability issues.
• 26:46
  And so that was, that was difficult, but, but, you know, it got to the end and Pete ran out of money and, and so then, um, I was sort of done and, and I still had the panel shop and it was a, it was one of those pivotal points in my life.
• 27:02
  And my dad, in those days, he was driving around a Valiant station wagon.
• 27:07
  And he'd rung Alan Horsley, who was a secretary of the car club in Aubrey.
• 27:11
  But he ran Orton Park and he ran Mazda after that, the racing team there.
• 27:16
  And so Horsley said to him, you should get into production car racing.
• 27:20
  If that kid's got any talent, he'll go, okay.
• 27:23
  And so dad went, great.
• 27:24
  He goes, where's it on?
• 27:27
  He said, well, we've got a big race coming up.
• 27:28
  It's a Pro-Am event.
• 27:30
  Peter Fitzgerald's entered in the Pal Colastarian, but he's got Peter Hopwood with him.
• 27:34
  We're going to knock him back because there'll be two pros.
• 27:37
  And maybe you can get a drive with him.
• 27:39
  So he said, coincidentally, they're racing this weekend in Amarillo Park.
• 27:42
  So my dad rang the tire.
• 27:43
  He stopped them all along the road along the way, didn't he?
• 27:45
  Yeah, he stopped, pulled him off.
• 27:46
  That's right.
• 27:47
  Pulled him off the road, talked him into it, and we had to pay five grand.
• 27:51
  And honestly, we didn't have five bucks.
• 27:53
  So my dad went off and did a deal with the local radio station for two and a half grand worth airtime and sold it and generated two and a half grand.
• 27:59
  And then he put a little consortium of his friends together and they tipped in the other two and a half grand.
• 28:05
  And then away we went.
• 28:06
  I went and drove the car with Fitzy.
• 28:08
  We won the race.
• 28:09
  And then we were trying to work out what we could do next.
• 28:14
  So I got a loan and bought a Starian.
• 28:17
  And we went to Class Headers, which were based in Auburn, did a sponsorship deal.
• 28:20
  So my dad did the deal.
• 28:21
  I just went in and tried to help, which wasn't much help at all.
• 28:25
  And then Kim worked on the car because he'd had a bike...
• 28:28
  accident and injured his knee and so that started it really he worked on the car i drove the car and and we went okay the first uh round of the super series which bob jane put on um you know we we were one of the strong strong runners
• 28:46
  The connection there with Mitsubishi would actually be quite a significant thing in your four-wheel career, sort of really cementing and taking off, would it not?
• 28:54
  Am I right in saying that?
• 28:54
  Oh, yeah, no, absolutely.
• 28:56
  And so, I'd met Kevin at that Pro-Am event and he took a bit of a shine to me.
• 29:02
  and he told me he was helping build the factory team, and then they took it off him a little bit and got Bob and John Murphy to build the cars in Adelaide and a guy called John Grant run it, and they hired me, and so off I went.
• 29:18
  And for me, I was very determined, very single-minded, still probably a little bit lazy, but just drove the race car.
• 29:28
  So I drove at Bathurst in 85s,
• 29:32
  and Fitzy and I drove together and KB drove with Peter McKay and I ended up qualifying the car 11th and KB was like just a fraction in front of me 10th and Fitzy and KB had an accident, they didn't like each other and they had an accident at the first corner which made their relationship worse which was good for me because...
• 29:55
  They were impressed with what I'd done over the days prior to the race, and then I became part of the factory team, really.
• 30:04
  People ask about the Starion when we get some listener questions.
• 30:07
  I mean, you did from the production car guys to the, what was it, effectively Group A guys, I suppose, wasn't it?
• 30:12
  What were those things like to drive?
• 30:14
  Well, I mean, people don't do it now, but I would race the production car and get out of it and then go and get in the Tomo's Monza or his Benz and do the sports sedan race and then get out of that and then go back and get in the Starion race at it.
• 30:31
  And racing the Group A Starion and the Brukshengar Starion, which I did for a long time until John Shepard stopped me.
• 30:42
  But one was a left hooker and the other one was a right.
• 30:48
  And so it was George Shepard.
• 30:50
  One was a right and one was a left hooker.
• 30:52
  So you'd get out of one.
• 30:54
  I remember racing at Amarillo Park and just finished a race in the Group A car.
• 30:57
  I ran down pit lane, jumped in the passenger seat of the production car and went, oops.
• 31:04
  But they were unbelievable times.
• 31:07
  You look back.
• 31:07
  I used to go racing.
• 31:08
  Kim would do all the work.
• 31:10
  I'd drive the car and then we'd take a bunch of friends with us.
• 31:13
  And it was just quite amazing.
• 31:15
  It was a really cool way to grow up and you got to see a lot of your friends.
• 31:20
  Yeah, it was great.
• 31:32
  I don't know if anyone's been driving around Melbourne recently, but boy, oh boy, are the roadworks really going on right now.
• 31:39
  Watch out for those 40 zones, folks, and stay safe.
• 31:44
  Took you to Asia, too, and I think, I could be wrong, I might be not recounting this story quite right, but I think KB told me about...
• 31:51
  You meeting maybe some Japanese Mitsubishi hierarchy for the first time.
• 31:56
  There was a meal and you were not, because I know you're just simple steak and veg and you were not keen on any of the Japanese food or the Asian food, whatever it was.
• 32:07
  I had never been, hardly been in an airplane like I've ever been.
• 32:11
  I remember I bought a video recorder and you had to take it out of the country.
• 32:16
  I thought you had to take it out of the country to buy it duty-free.
• 32:19
  I've never worked so hard for $100 in my life.
• 32:22
  I had to cart this thing everywhere I went.
• 32:25
  And then the first day we were there, we went.
• 32:27
  And honestly, in those days, I ate steak and chips.
• 32:31
  And that was pretty much it.
• 32:33
  Toast and Vegemite.
• 32:35
  but pretty much steak and chips.
• 32:37
  And we turned up, and if I ate anything else, I'd bring it back up again.
• 32:43
  It's been a real nuisance my whole life.
• 32:46
  And so it's fine when I've got my brother with me because he's like a garbage disposal.
• 32:50
  He'll eat anything.
• 32:51
  And so he would eat his food, and then we'd just swap plates.
• 32:55
  And so what happened was I was racing the production car at Amaru Park, and the Japanese, unbeknownst to me, had sent someone out to watch me race, and I really dominated the first two rounds.
• 33:10
  Then this guy came up with a business card and told me who he was and I'm like, who are you really?
• 33:16
  And then we struck a deal.
• 33:19
  So they came out and did the deal with me and then KB and I went and raced at Fuji for the first time.
• 33:26
  So we were in – Dave Brodie from the UK made the factory Starians, which were sports sedans.
• 33:34
  And so we went up there and they had, he had a Japanese driver with him, KB and I were in the car and then a couple of Chinese drivers in the other one.
• 33:43
  So it was, you know, I can remember the first practice session was pouring with rain.
• 33:49
  All the best drivers in Europe were there.
• 33:50
  So it was a really big deal.
• 33:53
  And so, you know, one, I couldn't eat the food and KB's like, eat it, eat it, eat it.
• 34:00
  And I'm like, okay, I can't eat it.
• 34:01
  And then I'm sweating like crazy.
• 34:04
  I mean, it was a bit of raw fish, a tree leaf, and I don't know what else was on the plate.
• 34:08
  It was green and it didn't look like it was edible, even though everyone else seemed to be tucking into it.
• 34:13
  So I'm like, I'm pushing it around and Bob Riley's like,
• 34:17
  eat it just eat it i'll throw it up and that'll be even more embarrassing and then and then um katani who is a who's you know he and mr connor katani were hosting the function and so then they're like oh you don't you know i said just like if i could have a cooked steak you know they brought out a stew and i'm thinking to myself i never said stew
• 34:39
  I said steak, steak is pretty simple, medium to well done steak.
• 34:44
  So then I'm trying to pick the meat out of the stew.
• 34:46
  It just makes me sweat thinking about it now.
• 34:49
  So it was difficult.
• 34:51
  And then we get to the racetrack.
• 34:52
  And in those days, I think they used to pay, charge $5,000 for 30 minutes of practice.
• 34:59
  It was crazy.
• 35:00
  And so it was wet, and so I'm standing there, and KB's like, what are you doing?
• 35:05
  And I said, oh, nothing.
• 35:08
  I'm just waiting for you to jump in the car.
• 35:10
  And he's like...
• 35:11
  get dressed and get in oh i'm in first yeah so i'm in the car it's pissing with rain so i'm out running around and i come in after you know three or four laps and i started to hop out and he's like what are you doing i'm getting out and he's like i'll tell you when to get out okay so you know i'm banging around and and starting to go all right next session i'm at least i'm standing there in my gear and he's like get in
• 35:36
  And I went, okay, still raining.
• 35:38
  So I'm in, belt around and getting pretty comfortable and going pretty fast.
• 35:41
  And, you know, we're looking pretty competitive.
• 35:43
  And then by the third session, still pouring with rain, I just didn't even ask, got in the car, off I went, smashed it out, and we were really, you know, competitive, I remember we were quite competitive.
• 35:55
  And then next day, I would roll into the garage with my suit on, and didn't ask anything, jumped in the car, it's still wet, but it's almost dry, you know, it's like just drizzling.
• 36:08
  And so I'm, I'm bell around and I do about three or four laps.
• 36:12
  I come firing in the pits and I'm on the radio.
• 36:15
  It's dry enough for slicks and I pull up and KB flings the door opening.
• 36:21
  Get out.
• 36:24
  You were just the wet weather driver.
• 36:26
  I'm like, Oh, so anyway, I mean, mind you, I joke about that, but, and he's, he was always hard, but really, really good to me.
• 36:34
  He was fantastic to me.
• 36:36
  You know,
• 36:37
  Through my career, lots of people, when I reflect, have been an important part of helping my growth and getting me to where I was.
• 36:46
  But him helping me get that opportunity made a big difference to my life and I'll be forever grateful to him for that.
• 36:54
  What are the biggest kind of lessons from a legend like that?
• 36:56
  What do you reckon was the big takeaway from Kevin Bartlett?
• 36:59
  Don't get drunk the night before you're racing.
• 37:05
  No, he was one of the old school guys.
• 37:09
  I mean, when you think about it, as big a joke as that might be, we went to Macau and I'd had a really hard night on the grog and he made me do a track walk.
• 37:19
  Like that joint's like, I don't know how many kilometers it's around, but it's like a lot.
• 37:23
  It's like...
• 37:24
  It's like walking around the outskirts of Melbourne for one full lap.
• 37:27
  It felt like it went forever, especially with a hangover.
• 37:29
  And I don't drink normally.
• 37:31
  So he would just, you know, a lot of people would look back and go, old guys, you know, heading towards the end of their career.
• 37:39
  But he was just really helpful.
• 37:41
  You know, he was hard but fair with me.
• 37:45
  And I couldn't ask for a better mentor, to be honest.
• 37:48
  He was really good.
• 37:49
  Made me eat shit I didn't like.
• 37:50
  Yeah.
• 37:51
  But he was great to me.
• 37:53
  He was really good.
• 37:54
  Are you starting at this point to feel comfortable like I can maybe make a life out of this, a full-time, you know, you're going international, you're seeing, you know, some star drivers that you're racing against, or was it still a bit, you know, paycheck to paycheck?
• 38:09
  Well, Kim and I had our little business going on the side, which paid for his life, and then I would go off and do this, and that's how I'd make a living, and I'm not going
• 38:20
  And by now, I'd raced against some of the best European drivers in the world.
• 38:27
  And, you know, I was...
• 38:29
  I mean, the following year was more of a light bulb moment for me, if I'm honest.
• 38:34
  I got to race up...
• 38:36
  I raced in the domestic championship, so I got...
• 38:40
  I was racing here in Australia, so Doug Stewart had started to get involved in my program and I had no – I wasn't – you know, it's so much money, but back in those days you don't really realise.
• 38:51
  Anyway, it didn't work out.
• 38:54
  They – I was probably a bit too well-connected to the Japanese and not what they wanted.
• 39:04
  You know, they clearly wanted Tony Stewart in the – what was it?
• 39:10
  Scott, Tony Scott in the car.
• 39:12
  And so it just didn't work out.
• 39:15
  You know, I drove as far as I could, but I was probably a bit of a handful on the other side of that.
• 39:21
  But I just, you know, if they could separate me from that deal, that was better for them, I reckon.
• 39:30
  Doug was very well connected with Raleigh Art and everyone had a high regard for him and he sold me the dream and it didn't quite work out that way.
• 39:40
  So then the Japanese still had helped me in good stead.
• 39:48
  Yeah, I guess.
• 39:49
  I'm trying to...
• 39:49
  You're playing it down.
• 39:50
  Keep going.
• 39:51
  I'm trying to find the right words.
• 39:52
  But they offered me a job up there.
• 39:54
  And then so I'd fly up and race in their domestic championship.
• 40:00
  And that was, for me, really good because I was clearly in the second car.
• 40:05
  But I was able to go as fast as the two lead drivers in their car.
• 40:10
  And so I was paid and looked after by the marketing department, a guy called Mr. Kondo, who he was very fond of me and looked after me really well.
• 40:19
  And then Katani-san owned the cars, but he'd spent so much money on the rally program and he couldn't actually fund the racing of them.
• 40:26
  So he used Kondo's money to...
• 40:28
  So the deal was you had to take the, you know, the little boy from Australia.
• 40:32
  And so they didn't like it.
• 40:34
  And so it was the first time I'd ever really experienced, you know, racial tension against myself, which is, you know, you just don't think that's going to happen.
• 40:44
  Yeah, it's not what it was used to.
• 40:46
  Not your DNA.
• 40:47
  And so, but it was good for me.
• 40:50
  You know, I went up there and raced and was, you know, found my feet and learned that I could race against, you know, some of the best guys, certainly in the country up there and do quite well.
• 41:04
  And then at the end of the year, I raced great.
• 41:09
  in the starion with Nakaya, but we raced against Tom Morgenshaw, turned up with two Jags.
• 41:16
  The factory Volvos were there.
• 41:17
  Grice was there.
• 41:19
  Brock was there.
• 41:21
  Super.
• 41:22
  All the very best of the best.
• 41:25
  And qualified second.
• 41:28
  Super.
• 41:29
  Yeah, so it was, you know, and that was probably more of my moment of, okay.
• 41:34
  That's the light bulb moment you were talking about?
• 41:35
  Yeah, it was just, it was, you know, it was a pretty cool moment for me.
• 41:41
  By then I was starting to get a bit agitated that I couldn't get a drive in Australia in stuff, but I could go up there and, you know, what was unfortunate was the Sierra came along soon after that and, you know,
• 41:56
  It really changed motorsport, touring car motorsport around the world.
• 41:59
  Certainly in Japan, Mitsubishi felt that the steering would never be a match for it.
• 42:03
  And so they went from offering me an opportunity to race in touring cars, Mirages, and help fund me into an F3 program to nothing.
• 42:13
  You know, I was back here.
• 42:16
  So that was sort of disappointing.
• 42:18
  Yeah.
• 42:18
  But it was, you know, like things happen for a reason and good things and bad things.
• 42:24
  And so that was a, you know, I look back at that part of my life and yeah, it was special.
• 42:32
  You mentioned Brock.
• 42:33
  When was the first time that you met him?
• 42:36
  I met Brock as a kid.
• 42:38
  I can remember we were at Oran Park and they used to have a big party on a Sunday night after a race meeting.
• 42:44
  And I was there with my dad and Brock wanted to meet Jack Brabham and he was all over my dad about.
• 42:50
  And he was very young.
• 42:54
  And so that was my first real memory of him, but I knew that he'd raced.
• 42:58
  I knew most of the cars that raced at the Hume-Wire, and I remember him coming down and competing.
• 43:03
  But that's probably a pretty strong memory for me.
• 43:07
  And then, of course...
• 43:09
  when I started racing, um, Crompton and I, I've always, you know, we've been close friends for a long time and, and, um, he's, he was racing production cars and then he got more involved with Brock and, and, um, through all the, uh, you know, the stuff that was going on in the late eighties, you know, I sort of tagged into the back end of that.
• 43:31
  I love the story.
• 43:32
  Neil shared it when he came on the podcast about you two playing a double act when he wanted to get out from Brocks for an opportunity, I think, at HRT, wasn't it?
• 43:44
  And then just, quote unquote, fortuitously, you happened to be around the corner, didn't you?
• 43:48
  Yeah, well, I picked him up from the airport to take him to Quib.
• 43:52
  So we formulated that plan, you know, and because, you know, in those days when we were driving for different people, we would, what we would do is charge them both for a motel room and then we'd share a motel room.
• 44:08
  Split it.
• 44:08
  And then we'd split the money.
• 44:09
  So, you know, we were, you know, best of friends like we are now.
• 44:14
  And so we do a lot of things together.
• 44:17
  And so anyway, he told me that he was going to – and by then I'd had a lot to do with Brock.
• 44:20
  And Brock loved hanging around with – so did Gao – with Crompton and I because we were crazy and loose.
• 44:28
  And they loved that part of –
• 44:30
  knocking around with someone in their 20s.
• 44:32
  And so Crompton's a bit straighter than me.
• 44:37
  And so then when I appeared, it was between...
• 44:41
  So I spent a lot of time with the three of them and built a relationship with them.
• 44:48
  And then Crompton, of course, decided that he wanted to get out of the BMWs.
• 44:54
  Arch McMurray, who was building my engines in the Oscar, worked at Brock's at the time.
• 44:59
  And so we just end up with a bit of a relationship, really.
• 45:06
  And so – but it grew strong really quickly.
• 45:10
  So Brock, I guess, when Crompton quit, I dropped him off.
• 45:15
  He walked in.
• 45:16
  I was parked around the corner and came back.
• 45:18
  And then he got out.
• 45:19
  I went in and said to Gal and Brock, hey, what's going on?
• 45:23
  And they're like, Crompton was just here.
• 45:24
  He's quit.
• 45:25
  And I went, you're kidding.
• 45:27
  Really?
• 45:28
  Wow, that's no good.
• 45:30
  So what are you going to do?
• 45:31
  I don't know.
• 45:33
  I've got an idea.
• 45:35
  So I did a deal with him on the spot.
• 45:39
  And, you know, I've always – I mean, Gal and I are still friends and, you know, I've got – he was fantastic.
• 45:47
  You know, I stayed his place from time to time and still go and see him when I was in the UK, when I was over there.
• 45:52
  So –
• 45:56
  Then I walked back around the corner, jumped in the car with Neil, and he goes, do you get the job?
• 46:00
  And I went, yep.
• 46:01
  And he goes, okay, let's go over to HRT.
• 46:03
  I'll introduce you to Creno.
• 46:05
  You'll probably end up driving for him at some point in time.
• 46:08
  So I went, okay, let's go.
• 46:09
  So over we went to HRT.
• 46:11
  But I was trying to get that drive at HRT.
• 46:14
  And so when Tom had raced at HRT,
• 46:19
  In Japan there.
• 46:19
  In Japan.
• 46:21
  I'd try to get hold of him.
• 46:22
  I was shy.
• 46:23
  You know, like I'd been to, I'd try to get a drive with Howard Mars in a test, which he offered me a test.
• 46:29
  And I couldn't attend because my feet got so badly sunburned, I couldn't wear any boots.
• 46:33
  And then Glenn Seaton got the drive pretty much straight away.
• 46:36
  So, not saying it just didn't work out.
• 46:40
  And um, uh, and then John Shepard who had the factory Volvo team Um, it took me I remember I sat in the car for like three hours Staring, you know at amaro park Trying to work up the balls to go over and ask him if I could have an opportunity to Test the car.
• 46:55
  I remember I walked over and I said Oh, hi.
• 46:58
  Hi, mr. Shepard.
• 46:59
  I'm brad jones.
• 47:00
  Yep.
• 47:00
  Yeah, I know you are I just wonder if there's ever any opportunity if I could maybe test your car for a co-drive He goes there's no chance
• 47:08
  And I went, okay, thank you.
• 47:10
  Thank you for your time.
• 47:11
  I went back and sat in the car and went, wow.
• 47:13
  And for a kid, you know, it just was very, very, very, very difficult.
• 47:18
  And I was – I wouldn't say I was shy, but I had a lot of trouble going to someone I didn't know and asking for an opportunity.
• 47:26
  It was –
• 47:27
  It's 180 of the Brad Jones I now know, mate.
• 47:29
  Yeah, I'm a very different person now to who I was then.
• 47:31
  But that's why anytime anyone, you know, always give young guys advice, always try and help young people.
• 47:37
  And not often can I give them something except good advice.
• 47:40
  And so I always try and do that.
• 47:42
  I don't care who you are.
• 47:43
  If you ask me if I can help and I can, I do.
• 47:46
  And I certainly...
• 47:47
  if I can't help you, and when I say help, I give you some advice.
• 47:51
  I always try and do this stuff.
• 47:54
  I mean, Howard Marsden was great.
• 47:55
  I went and had a meeting with him.
• 47:56
  You know, I was always worried about my association with my brother and my father.
• 48:00
  Everyone saw we came as triplets.
• 48:04
  But, you know, I was trying to make my way.
• 48:08
  But it was hard.
• 48:09
  Asking people to give you an opportunity was a really difficult thing for me.
• 48:12
  And so, I struggled through that.
• 48:15
  I want to,
• 48:15
  continue on the Brock thing, but, but you've gone just down a path that I would like.
• 48:19
  So let me just finish with one story.
• 48:21
  So, so I tried to get hold of Tom to get that drive.
• 48:23
  I couldn't get him.
• 48:25
  And, and so clearly this is before the Brock thing.
• 48:27
  So I was also racing against Macau.
• 48:29
  So they decided that I'd done a good job at, at, at, at Japan.
• 48:34
  They sent me down to Macau.
• 48:35
  So I'm like, cool.
• 48:36
  So I go down there.
• 48:37
  So I try and find Tom.
• 48:38
  I go over to the garage, I hang around, can't find him anywhere.
• 48:41
  I'm like,
• 48:42
  Oh, man, he needs to know me like he knows who I am.
• 48:45
  Clearly, he said hello to me.
• 48:46
  Hi, laddie.
• 48:47
  So I decided to get in the lift.
• 48:51
  So we're staying at a three.
• 48:52
  I know he's staying there.
• 48:53
  We're just going up and down the lift.
• 48:54
  Yeah, for 30 minutes.
• 48:57
  So I got in the lift and on Sunday morning I was starting to get really desperate because I knew Crompton was talking to him about getting a drive and I thought if he knows I'm available, that'll be me in that thing.
• 49:09
  So I get in the lift at about 7.15 in the morning and there's only two lifts.
• 49:15
  So I'm like I've got a 50% chance of getting him.
• 49:17
  He's got to come down for breakfast.
• 49:18
  And I stay in the lift and I go up and down, up and down, up and down for 30 minutes and it gets to quarter to eight and I'm like, damn.
• 49:26
  I missed him.
• 49:27
  He must have gone down the other lift.
• 49:29
  I'm sort of downtrodden.
• 49:30
  I'm standing in the lift.
• 49:31
  I'm looking at my feet.
• 49:33
  And I'm like, well, get out as soon as it goes down.
• 49:35
  So, bing, third door opens.
• 49:37
  Doors fly open.
• 49:38
  In walks Tom.
• 49:40
  So, I'm so, I just, he goes, hi, laddie.
• 49:44
  And I went, hello.
• 49:46
  He froze.
• 49:47
  And then, bing, the doors open.
• 49:48
  He walks out.
• 49:50
  And I stayed in there for about another two trips going up and down.
• 49:53
  I was sweating like crazy, massively disappointed with myself.
• 49:57
  And then, of course, you know, that was my missed opportunity.
• 49:59
  But I got to meet him later.
• 50:01
  And, you know, he's a pretty intense guy.
• 50:04
  But I always felt I had a pretty good relationship with Tom.
• 50:07
  That's a great word that you bring up because I think with you, you have so many long-term relationships from so many aspects of your career that you have kept and continue to have, even if you're not with that.
• 50:19
  sponsor or that manufacturer or whatever it might be.
• 50:22
  So what is it on the commercial side that you eventually
• 50:28
  latched onto or if you had all those nerves that you're talking about there before, at what point did you unlock that side and realise, right, that's going to be my area of, in addition to the driving, that you'd have to... Well, there was a couple of things that made a big difference.
• 50:40
  I had a really bad breakup when I stopped driving at HRT with John Cranin.
• 50:46
  And what I learned from that was you just, whether you're right or wrong, having such a terrible relationship on the way out the door is... No good.
• 50:57
  No good.
• 50:57
  Mm-hmm.
• 50:58
  And so that, you know, I felt we probably both contributed pretty significantly to that.
• 51:06
  John mightn't agree, but I'm certainly of that opinion.
• 51:09
  Is it better now?
• 51:10
  I've never seen him.
• 51:11
  But, you know, I think we both were left with a pretty bad taste in our mouths.
• 51:16
  And so, yeah.
• 51:20
  And the other thing is it doesn't cost anything to be nice and you've got to work hard with sponsors to keep them.
• 51:28
  And...
• 51:29
  Honestly, from the minute we started racing, the only way I could ever survive was with other people's help.
• 51:35
  And so when you're in that position and you don't have any money, you really appreciate what they can do for you.
• 51:41
  And you try and do as much as you can for them.
• 51:44
  And really, that's the way it's been here forever.
• 51:47
  Did it organically happen that Kim, you know, when you ultimately had your own race team as brothers, did he sort of look after one aspect of the business and you focused on the other or were you both, you know?
• 52:01
  When it worked best, he built the cars and I drove them.
• 52:05
  Okay.
• 52:06
  And when he retired...
• 52:09
  I remember we wrote the press release and I was sitting in a motel in Sydney and it was quite emotional actually thinking back over the years because I think my line was together...
• 52:25
  in everything but supercars, we dominated at worst, you know, and I always felt it was Kim and I against the world.
• 52:33
  The world, yeah.
• 52:34
  And we were very, very successful.
• 52:36
  And so he had a good understanding of what I wanted out of a car, but most people would see the way we'd bicker and fight and not understand that was just, you know, our way of communicating.
• 52:48
  Yeah.
• 52:49
  And so then, you know, he stopped for whatever reason when we started racing outies and, you know, still I was successful.
• 52:59
  But, you know, the really, really successful stuff was when he was building cars for me.
• 53:06
  I love my brother.
• 53:07
  We're both very different people, right?
• 53:11
  When you add the- Sounds like me.
• 53:13
  But where I'm going here is you're next level here because you're playing in elite sport and you're running a business together that involves a lot of people.
• 53:23
  Does that... Not in those days.
• 53:25
  It was just me and him.
• 53:26
  Okay, ultimately.
• 53:27
  Me and him, a green van, a white trailer, and a production car, an Oscar.
• 53:30
  Did it get testy as brothers?
• 53:32
  Oh, yeah, we would fight.
• 53:33
  And so if you ask someone like Kelvin O'Reilly, he would say to you, last thing you want to do is get between the Joneses when they're having a blue because then they both gang up on you.
• 53:43
  So, you know, we can talk to each other like shit, but when you start talking like that to us, then, you know, we're on to you.
• 53:49
  So, look, it was, you know, I would push him really hard and sometimes that would work good and sometimes it wouldn't and, you know, but we're also very different people.
• 54:02
  Do you miss him being around and does he miss being a part of it?
• 54:05
  I don't think he...
• 54:06
  I think if you asked him, he wouldn't miss being a part of it.
• 54:08
  You know, he was looking to stop for a long time.
• 54:12
  And...
• 54:15
  And for me, it's different now, but I'm more than comfortable with it.
• 54:21
  Yeah.
• 54:21
  And, you know, we still talk, but this is at a different place now.
• 54:26
  Place now, yeah.
• 54:27
  So, you know, I enjoy having full control over what's going on at BJR, and he enjoys not having to go to work every day.
• 54:37
  And so it took a little – it was hard at the start because we've seen each other every day for, you know, 40 or 50 years.
• 54:43
  Mm-hmm.
• 54:44
  And so, but, you know, he was at a time where he wanted to stop and it took me a long time to see that.
• 54:52
  But, and I was nervous about doing it by myself, but, you know, it's worked out okay and it's given me an opportunity to involve my family a little bit more.
• 54:59
  So, you know, my, pardon me, eldest daughter works here.
• 55:03
  My son's here every day and, you know, life's pretty good.
• 55:07
  Let's loop back to Brock, if we can.
• 55:10
  What was it like being around him in that?
• 55:13
  I mean, you talked about the fun that you brought to the table, Alan Gow, who you're still a great friend with.
• 55:18
  What was it?
• 55:18
  I mean, he was such a massive figure in Australian motorsport.
• 55:21
  Did you, were you not thinking about that sort of stuff or were you in awe of that kind of thing?
• 55:26
  What was sort of the early Brock stuff like?
• 55:27
  Well, I can only probably give you the G-rated stuff.
• 55:30
  This is a family show.
• 55:32
  Do your best.
• 55:33
  Walk up to the line.
• 55:34
  But I had a good relationship with him.
• 55:36
  So when I went to – I mean, I've got a bit of a quirky sense of humour.
• 55:40
  Yes.
• 55:41
  And, you know, I was a bit, like I said, loose when I was younger.
• 55:44
  But in those days, you know, got to know Brock.
• 55:48
  It started when we went down to his place to finish building our Oscar.
• 55:52
  And Kim and I really looked for classes of racing where the prize money was exceptional.
• 55:56
  Yeah.
• 55:56
  because that's how we lived.
• 55:57
  And such a, I mean, a wall.
• 55:58
  Yeah.
• 56:00
  And so we missed, like, the first year of that.
• 56:02
  And then we turned out, we went and saw Arch McMurray and got him to build the engine.
• 56:05
  And then he asked Brock if we could finish building our car there for our first race, which was a Christmas event.
• 56:11
  Yeah.
• 56:12
  So we got down there and Brock, you know, he just appears and, you know, what's this, what's that?
• 56:19
  And we're talking away.
• 56:20
  And I just struck up a really good relationship with him and, you know, really respected him and what he could do as a driver and learned a lot about him.
• 56:28
  But I had the rise and fall of Peter Brock in my pocket.
• 56:32
  when I first started going there all the time because, you know, I'd meet someone and then I'd go into the toilet and I'd read about them and tuck his book to see, you know, what they were into and whether they were believers or non-believers.
• 56:44
  Study, yeah.
• 56:45
  Yeah, so it was quite interesting but, you know, he was an amazing guy and when you think about it and I always said, you know, like,
• 56:56
  I could tell you some really cool stuff.
• 56:59
  This sort of reflect our relationship.
• 57:02
  Yep.
• 57:03
  So I'll tell you two stories.
• 57:04
  I was sitting, when we were racing Super Touring in Bathurst, Bruce McEvaney had to go in the studio in Sydney.
• 57:10
  And so Bruce and I are doing an interview in Brock's.
• 57:13
  Northern Territory somewhere, Dallas Springs, I know.
• 57:16
  He's in a buggy or he's doing something crazy.
• 57:19
  And so, you know, I'm calling Brock.
• 57:20
  So it's like, so, Bradley, how do you think you're going to go at Bathurst?
• 57:23
  And I'm like, well, Brock, I reckon.
• 57:25
  So we get to the end of the interview and Bruce goes,
• 57:29
  why is it you call Peter Brock?
• 57:33
  And I said, I don't know, term of endearment?
• 57:36
  He goes, that's unusual for an endearment term to be their last name.
• 57:41
  And I'm like, I don't know, Bruce.
• 57:43
  But that's, you know, like that was the relationship we had.
• 57:47
  And then he was, I took him for a lap around Bathurst in the Audi.
• 57:52
  And, you know, if you look at the interviews, it's like, well, you know, Bradley's going to drive me around.
• 57:56
  Let's hope he doesn't drive too hard, you know.
• 57:59
  So we get in the car and we drive down pit lane.
• 58:02
  He's got a home face helmet on.
• 58:03
  And he looks across at me and he says, nothing to prove here, Bradley.
• 58:09
  And I looked across at him and I said, want to bet?
• 58:13
  I said, I find it ironic that the fastest lap you're ever going to do around Bathurst is in the passenger seat next to me.
• 58:20
  This is gold.
• 58:21
  I can't believe they're catching this on television.
• 58:24
  And, man, he's, you know, but he loved that crazy, you know, that crazy side.
• 58:31
  And we had some, you know, he would, when we were building the Oscar, he would drop in with a cup of tea and, you know, chat to everyone.
• 58:40
  Just the way he was.
• 58:41
  I'll come back to the Oscar stuff in a second.
• 58:43
  I sense with Crompo that he exhausted just about every bit of emotional energy around the amazing words that he delivered at the funeral and things like that.
• 58:54
  He doesn't often, you know, when people have approached him about being a part of a Brock documentary or something, he doesn't gravitate to a lot of that stuff.
• 59:02
  I think he compartmentalised it and, you know, still loves Brock dearly.
• 59:08
  How did his passing affect you, mate?
• 59:09
  What was the impact on that?
• 59:11
  I was at Calder Park doing an Audi drive day.
• 59:14
  And, you know, and it just reduced me to tears.
• 59:21
  It was, you know, I remember exactly where I was.
• 59:24
  I remember I was standing on the main straight.
• 59:26
  Yeah.
• 59:27
  And I couldn't believe it.
• 59:30
  But, you know, it's... And honestly, Neil did an amazing job that day.
• 59:36
  Amazing, yeah.
• 59:37
  And, you know, it was just a very sad day.
• 59:41
  But, you know, I think those tarmac rallies and stuff.
• 59:47
  The thing is...
• 59:48
  it's a little like water skiing and snow skiing.
• 59:50
  So you can be a great water skier.
• 59:52
  It doesn't instantly mean you're going to be a great snow skier.
• 59:55
  And then you go and do a tarmac rally and then you're relying on someone giving you the advice of what the corner is and reading the road.
• 1:00:03
  And like road racers, they train for years to be able to do that stuff.
• 1:00:06
  And I always felt like Peter would drive the car very, very hard at those events.
• 1:00:12
  And it was just a very sad way for Brock to finish up.
• 1:00:24
  That's the end of part one of my podcast with racer turned supercars team owner Brad Jones.
• 1:00:29
  A special episode in our library, all brought to you as part of a great partnership with Pizza Hut.
• 1:00:34
  Now, there is a second part all loaded up in the Rusty's Garage Library and ready for you to enjoy right now.
• 1:00:40
  So fire it up and hit the gas when you're ready.
• 1:00:43
  Another hour of insightful stories.
• 1:00:45
  Brad tells them so well.
• 1:00:47
  And there is more laughs to come too.
• 1:00:49
  From Barry Sheen's test in the Brock Sierra to going backstage at a Phil Collins concert.
• 1:00:55
  Memories of racing at the Thunderdome.
• 1:00:57
  Stitching together a deal with Audi to race their iconic two-litre Supertourers.
• 1:01:02
  Plus his friendship with Neil Crompton.
• 1:01:04
  Some classic tales there.
• 1:01:06
  And the potential he saw in Jason Richards before JR's battle with cancer really took hold, sadly.
• 1:01:13
  And the car that evokes the strongest memory for him.
• 1:01:16
  You may be surprised which one he picks.
• 1:01:24
  Listener.