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The Pitt Payoff · Pittsburgh Sports Memories

0:00
SPEAKER_01: Hi everybody, welcome to the Pittsburgh Sports Memories Podcast.
0:04
SPEAKER_01: My name is Tim Hannon.
0:05
SPEAKER_01: I have a co-host with me.
0:07
SPEAKER_08: I'm Steve Wirt.
0:09
SPEAKER_01: How's it going, Steve?
0:11
SPEAKER_08: Uh better than Pitts seasons since this season.
0:16
SPEAKER_08: Maybe not.
0:17
SPEAKER_08: I don't know.
0:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we are going to talk about uh a very memorable pit season.
0:39
SPEAKER_08: This is probably the most memorable season they've had in our pit fandom in my conscious lifetime.
0:46
SPEAKER_01: And and that's and and that's that's really why this season was special, because there there's literally almost 50 years of just heartbreak.
0:57
SPEAKER_08: Yeah, no.
0:58
SPEAKER_08: Well, I will say I I I'm gonna say this up front.
1:01
SPEAKER_08: This is a very bittersweet season for me, I think, because of and I I guess you know, as we go along, I'll divulge out like a lot of the stuff that went on to just like I mean I would I I think I'm still a fan, but I think like the university has pushed me away.
1:15
SPEAKER_08: And I'll say that.
1:16
SPEAKER_08: And it's never fun getting re rejected by a sports team, but apparently they don't want me as a fan, Tim.
1:22
SPEAKER_08: So I I I don't know what to tell you.
1:25
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, can you really blame them, Steve?
1:28
SPEAKER_08: Well, you know, I Garancho Mark said, I wouldn't want to be a member, I wouldn't want to have a club that would have me as a member.
1:36
SPEAKER_08: I wouldn't join any club that would have me as a member.
1:38
SPEAKER_08: There you go.
1:40
SPEAKER_01: So so so to Steve's point about you know what what really made this season such a like a payoff uh and what it made it so special, you really have to understand the 45 years of history that led up to the 2021 pit season.
1:56
SPEAKER_08: Do we really need to, Tim?
1:59
SPEAKER_08: Can we just say sucked?
2:03
SPEAKER_01: So no, I think I think I think like I said, to set the kind of the tone for why this season mattered and why we're even doing a whole episode on it.
2:10
SPEAKER_08: I love I love being I love a I love being I love a masochist.
2:14
SPEAKER_08: I mean, I'm into masochism as not just the next guy, Tim, but this is a little rough.
2:18
SPEAKER_08: I mean I know, I know, but Steve, it's it's uh my save word is banana.
2:25
SPEAKER_01: It'll make it'll make the it'll make talking about the season that much more that much more special.
2:30
SPEAKER_08: So it adds context.
2:31
SPEAKER_01: It adds a lot of context.
2:33
SPEAKER_01: So 45 years earlier, in 1976, as Steve said, pit football is on top of the world.
2:39
SPEAKER_01: They're national champions, they have the Heisman Trophy winner and Tony Dorset.
2:44
SPEAKER_01: They are the premier program in college football.
2:47
SPEAKER_01: And then, well, to say things slowly crumbled would be such a massive understatement.
2:53
SPEAKER_08: It wasn't even like 76.
2:55
SPEAKER_08: It didn't really crumble till the 80s, quite honestly, until 83.
2:58
SPEAKER_08: 83 is when things fell aboard.
3:00
SPEAKER_01: Well, it it it it crumbles, yeah.
3:02
SPEAKER_01: So so let's go through this because and and we'll we'll keep this kind of high level, the the events that transpire over the next five decades.
3:10
SPEAKER_01: Let's start with Pitt recruits a quarterback from Central Catholic.
3:14
SPEAKER_01: He's unlike any quarterback in the history of college football, his talent is immeasurable.
3:20
SPEAKER_01: His name is Dan Marino, so surely Pitt will add more national championships, right?
3:26
SPEAKER_01: No.
3:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
3:28
SPEAKER_01: Marino's career at Pitt is is very good, but he never quite gets him over the top.
3:33
SPEAKER_01: The most painful moment of his career comes in the 1981 Pitt-Penn State game.
3:38
SPEAKER_01: Pitt's 10-0.
3:39
SPEAKER_01: They're ranked number one in the nation.
3:40
SPEAKER_01: They have a 14-0 lead against Penn State at home, and then they get blown out for 14.
3:47
SPEAKER_08: If you mean home three of our stadium, sure.
3:51
SPEAKER_01: It was in Pittsburgh.
3:53
SPEAKER_01: But that that ruins their season.
3:55
SPEAKER_01: And then the rest of the 80s and the early 90s uh does see Pitt recruit some more really good players, guys like Ironhead Hayward and Chris Dolman and Alex Van Pelt.
4:06
SPEAKER_01: And and they have some decent teams too.
4:09
SPEAKER_01: But they mostly just kind of like sink into mediocrity.
4:13
SPEAKER_01: Uh they also make the decision to join the Big East, which, you know, at that point, the ability to sustain a football program as an independent was pretty much impossible unless your school was located in South Bend.
4:25
SPEAKER_08: Yeah, what happened within '83, like really Wesley Posvar and they got rid of Cal McGucky, the 80.
4:33
SPEAKER_08: And they said, oh, we broke a lot of the rules.
4:35
SPEAKER_08: Pitt decided like they wanted to go be more of an academic institution, not known for athletics.
4:41
SPEAKER_08: And so what they did was they just totally did not spend on the athletic program.
4:46
SPEAKER_08: Um they probably the Joe Paterno, if they would have, maybe if they would have joined with Penn State, maybe I don't know.
4:53
SPEAKER_08: Maybe maybe they're still with them at this time, maybe them in West Virginia, and you know, maybe Notre Dame has their play-in, you know, season with that group.
5:02
SPEAKER_08: Because, you know, if if Penn State and Syracuse and Pitt and West Virginia, and you know, I don't know who else they could have pulled, like a no uh Rutgers or somebody like that, you know, then maybe that's a decent little Northeast conference.
5:16
SPEAKER_08: You know, maybe Yukon joined jumps in for football.
5:20
SPEAKER_08: But um in basketball, I don't know what they would have done.
5:24
SPEAKER_08: It's just but the university really wasn't at in the sports or athletics, and that's that's kind of what happened.
5:30
SPEAKER_08: They go from mediocrity to suck.
5:32
SPEAKER_08: That's really the story of the late 80s, they were very mediocre, and then in the 90s they were absolute garbage for a very long time.
5:40
SPEAKER_08: And and there's no other there's no other way to put it, Tim, from from like 92, Johnny Majors comes back, doesn't it?
5:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so so 1993, that's that's what's gonna be my next, my next um event in the timeline.
5:53
SPEAKER_01: So so Pitt makes a a very much a splash hire, right?
5:57
SPEAKER_01: They they bring back Johnny Majors.
5:58
SPEAKER_01: He's the guy that won them that 1976 national championship.
6:02
SPEAKER_01: So, like you said, that the the years of of kind of uh taking the the focus away from sports and athletics, the years of mediocrity, this is the thing that's gonna really resurrect the program, bringing back Johnny Majors.
6:17
SPEAKER_01: And and the other thing to remember is that Majors won that national championship riding a generational talented running back with Tony Dorsett.
6:26
SPEAKER_01: And here in 1993, guess what, Steve?
6:28
SPEAKER_08: Is a generational running back, yeah.
6:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Curtis Martin.
6:33
SPEAKER_08: Well, the I think the bigger the two big problems that they were really up against was number one being in the big east wasn't sustainable, and number two, the stadium.
6:44
SPEAKER_08: That was probably their two bigger issues.
6:47
SPEAKER_08: If they could have fixed one of those under him, that would have been great because the facility like I remember even like in interviews in the early 90s, majors like, oh, our facilities are terrible.
6:57
SPEAKER_08: He's like, We really gotta upgrade our facilities.
7:00
SPEAKER_08: So if they add like luxury boxes and like remember, they had portable lights for the longest time.
7:07
SPEAKER_08: They did even the 80s, I think they still had portable lights.
7:11
SPEAKER_08: Like, if you upgrade Pit Stadium, make it a great place to play, you know, I don't know.
7:18
SPEAKER_01: I mean Yeah, I I I I don't I don't know how much of it was the program and how much of it was majors couldn't coach that generation of kids anymore.
7:29
SPEAKER_01: I I don't know.
7:30
SPEAKER_01: All I know is that it was quite the disaster.
7:34
SPEAKER_08: Well, his recruiting fell off so much in his second and third year.
7:38
SPEAKER_08: Like he went from losing guys to like Penn State and Notre Dame to losing guys to like Akron and like other like bowling grain, like back schools.
7:47
SPEAKER_08: It's like, uh yeah, you're in trouble.
7:49
SPEAKER_01: And and and and and I think it would be different if majors came in and just didn't live up to expectation.
7:56
SPEAKER_01: And there were expectations.
7:57
SPEAKER_01: I mean, Steve, I st I think I still have my my back to the future commemorative tumbler somewhere in storage.
8:04
SPEAKER_08: I I we used to, I think I threw away my my seat cushion because they used to because the the benches were so aluminum and hard, they gave away seat cushions one day at a pit game and it said back to the future on it.
8:15
SPEAKER_08: I we had that for years.
8:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
8:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and it wasn't like he just didn't live up to those expectations.
8:21
SPEAKER_01: Pitt, like you said, was quite literally one of the wor the absolute worst programs out there, period.
8:27
SPEAKER_01: And and Steve and I attended a lot of games during that era.
8:30
SPEAKER_01: That's it.
8:31
SPEAKER_08: Yeah, that's what I kind of grew up, yeah, as a Pitt fan, was in this era.
8:35
SPEAKER_08: And yeah.
8:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the the 1994 backyard brawl.
8:39
SPEAKER_01: Steve's Steve's still on therapy for that one, I think.
8:44
SPEAKER_08: Yeah, that that was rough.
8:45
SPEAKER_01: There was a 72 to nothing loss to Ohio State.
8:47
SPEAKER_01: There was I was at that too.
8:49
SPEAKER_08: Yay! Or no, was it the 65?
8:51
SPEAKER_08: What was the one at Pitts Stadium?
8:53
SPEAKER_08: Was it the 65 or the 72?
8:55
SPEAKER_08: Oh, I don't yeah, I mean there was one where they score um Ohio State scored on a punt return and they only had like nine guys on the field against Pitts 11.
9:05
SPEAKER_08: That was in Ohio State, that was in Columbus.
9:07
SPEAKER_08: I remember this whatever game was at Pit Stadium, I think that was the 65 to nothing.
9:12
SPEAKER_08: I remember it was like a game in like Columbus because they returned the opening kickoff for a touchdown and it was just terrible.
9:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
9:22
SPEAKER_01: The other game I remember is this wasn't this was at South Bend, but it was against Notre Dame, where Pitt gave up three punt return touchdowns.
9:32
SPEAKER_01: And you might say, like, oh my gosh, you know, giving up three punt return touchdowns in the same game, that's crazy.
9:37
SPEAKER_01: Well, don't worry, pit didn't do that.
9:39
SPEAKER_01: They gave up three punt return touchdowns in the second quarter of that game against Notre Dame.
9:44
SPEAKER_08: Wow.
9:45
SPEAKER_08: It's as bad as the five fumbles in one quarter against Georgia Tech much later.
9:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
9:51
SPEAKER_01: So so Pitt was Pitt was real bad uh in the 90s.
9:55
SPEAKER_01: As we get into the 21st century, you know, Steve talked about the stadium.
9:59
SPEAKER_01: They do tear down Pitt Stadium.
10:00
SPEAKER_01: Pitt football moves into beautiful new Heinz Field.
10:03
SPEAKER_01: They also have a new coach, a guy named Walt Harris, who slowly resurrects the program.
10:08
SPEAKER_01: They still have some bad losses.
10:10
SPEAKER_01: There's the swinging gate game against Texas AM.
10:13
SPEAKER_01: There's the Troy Noones, David Tyree, triple overtime loss at Syracuse.
10:17
SPEAKER_01: But they have some big wins too, like the 97 backyard brawl at Morgantown.
10:22
SPEAKER_01: It all culminates in the 2003 season in which Pitt is a top 10 team with legit national championship aspirations for the first time since Dan Marino, and that's largely because they have a guy who you could argue is the single best pure football player in the history of the program.
10:37
SPEAKER_01: We've talked about him before, a receiver named Larry Fitzgerald.
10:41
SPEAKER_01: But 2003, like so many other promising seasons, goes south in a hurry and it ends in all kinds of disappointment.
10:50
SPEAKER_01: Uh the Panthers do get some level of redemption the next year when they win a very decimated Big East.
10:56
SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
10:57
SPEAKER_08: Was 2003 was the year they lost to Miami at the end of the season.
11:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
11:02
SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
11:02
SPEAKER_01: And then they they win the conference in 04, but that was the year, that was like after everyone had left left.
11:07
SPEAKER_08: Well, and they they were co-conference champions.
11:09
SPEAKER_08: They had to wait for I think Boston College to beat or Syracuse to beat Boston College or something.
11:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
11:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
11:16
SPEAKER_01: And then they get pounded in the Fiesta Bowl.
11:18
SPEAKER_01: And then Walt Harris is gone after that season.
11:20
SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
11:21
SPEAKER_08: And they almost lost to Furman that that year in England, the immortal Engle Martin at Furman.
11:28
SPEAKER_08: Furman.
11:29
SPEAKER_01: So now enter the Dave Wandstead era.
11:32
SPEAKER_01: Like, okay, this is great.
11:33
SPEAKER_01: This is a guy who bleeds blue and gold.
11:35
SPEAKER_01: He loves the university.
11:37
SPEAKER_01: He loves Pittsburgh.
11:38
SPEAKER_01: He's going to do for Pitt what hometown hero Bill Cower did for the Steelers, right?
11:44
SPEAKER_01: Well, once again, it doesn't work out.
11:46
SPEAKER_01: Uh despite the unforgettable 13-9 win over WVU.
11:49
SPEAKER_08: Hey, don't forget the Ohio University game we went to, Tim.
11:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that was that was bad.
11:55
SPEAKER_08: Hey, you wanted this masochism.
11:57
SPEAKER_08: You invited it on yourself, my friend.
11:59
SPEAKER_01: I wasn't going to go into every terrible loss.
12:03
SPEAKER_01: At the end of the day, one said it's just never able to put Pitt over the game.
12:06
SPEAKER_08: The Tony the Tony Pike Marty Gilgart game and against Cincinnati.
12:11
SPEAKER_01: Well, that's the game.
12:12
SPEAKER_01: I was going to say the closest he gets is the 2009 season where Pitt is a boxed extra point away from playing against Tim Thibault in the Sugar Bowl.
12:20
SPEAKER_01: But, you know, again, doesn't happen.
12:23
SPEAKER_01: The 2010s bring more heartache and disaster.
12:27
SPEAKER_01: Pitt cycles through like 45 coaches.
12:29
SPEAKER_08: I think you and I coached the team at some point.
12:32
SPEAKER_01: I I think we did.
12:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
12:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
12:34
SPEAKER_01: And didn't do any better.
12:36
SPEAKER_08: We couldn't have done much worse.
12:38
SPEAKER_01: No, we really couldn't have.
12:39
SPEAKER_08: I don't think I have any domestic abuse charges.
12:42
SPEAKER_08: So I I we got we both got one up on that guy.
12:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
12:46
SPEAKER_01: Pitt Pitt had one of the coaches is there for like two weeks and then he gets fired because of domestic violence.
12:52
SPEAKER_01: Some of those guys, like Todd Graham or carpet baggers.
12:55
SPEAKER_01: Uh the program really loses a lot of steam during this time, despite once again having a generational talent in Aaron Donald, whose career at Pitt is largely wasted.
13:05
SPEAKER_08: And they kind of they kind of go back to where they were in '96.
13:08
SPEAKER_08: Not quite as bad, but pretty close.
13:11
SPEAKER_08: And once again, they could bring in a guy who kind of resurrects it.
13:14
SPEAKER_08: Paul Christ really saved their program, I think.
13:16
SPEAKER_08: I think a big reason they ended up in the ACC was because of Paul Christ.
13:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he he he did it he did a nice job.
13:23
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it wasn't it wasn't resurrected in the sense that they were ever, you know, a top-tier elite team, but it he brought them back from like the dregs of total disaster.
13:33
SPEAKER_01: And and like Steve said, they also jumped to the ACC during this time.
13:37
SPEAKER_08: And and that was desperation, total survival.
13:41
SPEAKER_08: They were just trying to survive, you know, at that point.
13:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I know I know you hate them being in the ACC, but they had to do it.
13:48
SPEAKER_08: Well, it's survival.
13:50
SPEAKER_08: It was just and then there I saw there's rumors now, and this is totally internet, that they're gonna jump to the Big 12.
13:57
SPEAKER_08: Like, why?
14:00
SPEAKER_08: Okay.
14:01
SPEAKER_08: I I I can't wait for that road trip to Lubbock, Texas.
14:04
SPEAKER_08: You ever been to West Texas, Tim?
14:06
SPEAKER_08: Well, it it's if you haven't been to Les Texas, I'll give you a hint.
14:11
SPEAKER_08: There's about three people in a cow that live there.
14:15
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's it's no it's uh would be no worse than a road trip to Cal and Stanford and Duke every year.
14:22
SPEAKER_08: At least at least people live there, right?
14:24
SPEAKER_01: I I guess.
14:26
SPEAKER_01: The point being that it it's we've talked about this before.
14:30
SPEAKER_01: The conference realignment thing stinks, but again, they had to join the ACC.
14:33
SPEAKER_01: There's like a 50 million, there's like a$50 million revenue gap between the power for four schools and everybody else.
14:40
SPEAKER_01: So you they they just had to do it.
14:42
SPEAKER_01: Like it was musical chairs.
14:44
SPEAKER_01: There was a care that said ACC that was there when the music stopped playing, they had to jump in it.
14:48
SPEAKER_08: So people say that was between us and UConn, and Syracuse didn't want UConn to join.
14:53
SPEAKER_08: That's yeah that's what I've heard.
14:55
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
14:55
SPEAKER_01: Which is fine.
14:57
SPEAKER_01: Again, we got a spot, we'll take it.
14:59
SPEAKER_08: Hey, West Virginia has to play in the Big 12, so good luck with that.
15:03
SPEAKER_01: So in 2015, they hired the defensive coordinator from Michigan State.
15:07
SPEAKER_01: It's a guy named Pat Narduzzi.
15:10
SPEAKER_01: And Patton Arduzzi is a is a good coach and a seemingly a pretty good recruiter recruiter.
15:16
SPEAKER_01: Uh he'll definitely wind up being a guy who kind of like Mike Tomlin at the end of his career, you really can't argue with his win-loss results, but he'll also make you pull your hair out at times.
15:29
SPEAKER_08: I he's the I I mean to interrupt, but he's the perfect coach for Pitt, I think.
15:34
SPEAKER_08: Out of all the guys they've had, like we've had the hometown guy, we've had the carpetbagger guy, we had the guy that kind of resurrected, but he wanted to be here, but there was just that one school that was always lurking out there.
15:47
SPEAKER_08: Pat Narduzzi wants to be here, is always going to be here, and more importantly, he understands Pitt's position in the college football world.
15:56
SPEAKER_08: I think Todd Graham never understood how to recruit this area, never understood what Pitt is.
16:02
SPEAKER_08: I think Pat Narduzzi is from Youngstown, so he understands Ohio and Pennsylvania and this area, and also he coached in Michigan State, so he knows how to it is to be the second banana in a state and always be the afterthought.
16:17
SPEAKER_08: And that's or afterbirth.
16:19
SPEAKER_08: I don't know what anything.
16:21
SPEAKER_08: But anyway, but Narduzzi really is.
16:24
SPEAKER_08: He's a blowhard.
16:25
SPEAKER_08: And he's you know, he can be aggravating at times, but he's been the most successful coach at Pitt of my lifetime.
16:33
SPEAKER_08: I mean, I guess Jackie Sherrill technically is, but once again, I really wasn't that cognitant in 1982 when Jackie Sherrill was coaching.
16:41
SPEAKER_01: So it it's a it's a good point, Steve, that um that that he he probably understands uh you know how to how to be the pit coach.
16:51
SPEAKER_01: It's also a good point that he's a complete blowhard.
16:56
SPEAKER_00: I mean, some of the some of the calls we got, late hit out of bounds, they catch a ball with a hands in the face, and I never seen anything like it.
17:04
SPEAKER_00: You know.
17:05
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
17:06
SPEAKER_00: We had we had we beat we beat West Virginia in the backyard pro, then we beat the officials too in one game.
17:14
SPEAKER_08: Yeah, I love it.
17:15
SPEAKER_08: I love it.
17:16
SPEAKER_08: I I'm sorry.
17:16
SPEAKER_08: I I I don't care.
17:17
SPEAKER_08: I love it.
17:18
SPEAKER_01: That's that's just I I shut up.
17:20
SPEAKER_08: Like I want to kind of let him talk some trash after away.
17:24
SPEAKER_08: It's that's whatever.
17:25
SPEAKER_01: That's him just being just being like petty.
17:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, petty.
17:29
SPEAKER_08: And but I love it.
17:30
SPEAKER_08: Uh whatever.
17:31
SPEAKER_08: But what are the what are they what are they gonna find him for it?
17:34
SPEAKER_08: Oh, okay.
17:34
SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
17:35
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I don't care if they're gonna find him or not.
17:37
SPEAKER_01: It just it just That's not even the worst one, Tim.
17:40
SPEAKER_01: That's not it's not.
17:41
SPEAKER_08: It's it's just one example out of like Are you gonna play the other ones where like he guarantees wins at halftime?
17:48
SPEAKER_01: That's what I mean.
17:49
SPEAKER_01: He so it like I said, Steve, it reminds me of Tomlin, where it's like you it's it's very hard to argue with you know success.
17:57
SPEAKER_01: Like there's a ton of success, but then if you watch the games or if you listen to him talk, or if you if you follow the track record, there are just things that you just you're so aggravated by.
18:07
SPEAKER_08: What other i it's aggravating, but sometimes you just have to live with it because what other type of person would be successful at Pitt, except for that guy.
18:17
SPEAKER_01: I I'm with you.
18:18
SPEAKER_01: You're spot on.
18:19
SPEAKER_01: I 1000% agree with you.
18:22
SPEAKER_01: It's just like I said, you I'm just venting.
18:26
SPEAKER_01: We will make you pull your hair out.
18:29
SPEAKER_08: Whatever.
18:30
SPEAKER_08: Like I like as a fan, you haven't thought that about.
18:32
SPEAKER_08: And Chuck Dole said it.
18:34
SPEAKER_08: That's literally a Chuck Null quote.
18:35
SPEAKER_08: Today we beat, yeah, we weren't good enough to beat the other team and the officials.
18:40
SPEAKER_08: That's literally a Chuck Null quote.
18:42
SPEAKER_08: So maybe it was just quoting his favorite coach, Chuck Knowle.
18:45
SPEAKER_08: I don't know.
18:47
SPEAKER_08: He's still bitter about his dad getting fired from um Youngstown State, I think.
18:52
SPEAKER_01: He's bitter about a lot of stuff.
18:56
SPEAKER_08: Whatever, most successful coach in Penn history, uh or at least the recent pit history.
19:01
SPEAKER_01: So he is, and he has he has a lot of success his first six seasons.
19:05
SPEAKER_01: They beat Penn State and massively upset national champion Clemson in 2016.
19:09
SPEAKER_08: And ruined Penn State season, which is just the best thing ever.
19:16
SPEAKER_01: They win the ACC Coastal Division in 2018, but they lose to Clemson in the ACC championship game.
19:21
SPEAKER_08: Hey, Kenny Pickett completed eight passes that game.
19:24
SPEAKER_08: Don't knock it, Tim.
19:26
SPEAKER_01: I think I think it was actually worse than that.
19:28
SPEAKER_01: We'll get into that later.
19:28
SPEAKER_08: I think it might have been seven.
19:30
SPEAKER_01: They they they definitely seem to they definitely seem to pull out of that aimless funk that they were in in the early part of the decade.
19:36
SPEAKER_01: And like you said, Steve, Paul Christ really started that, but but then Narduzzi took it to the next level.
19:42
SPEAKER_08: When he was very successful with everybody, like people would say that, boy, he's doing really well with Todd Christ's recruits because Todd Christ had built a solid foundation of recruits.
19:51
SPEAKER_08: Like James Conner, that was a Paul Christ recruit, if I'm not mistaken.
19:55
SPEAKER_08: Although they recruited him as a defensive end.
19:58
SPEAKER_08: But yeah, I mean, for sure.
20:01
SPEAKER_08: In the offensive line, that was all Christ.
20:04
SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
20:06
SPEAKER_01: Uh however, just like the Wanstead era and the Harris era and the Jackie Sherrill era, Narduzzi really can't get them over the top.
20:15
SPEAKER_01: In 2019, they lose to Penn State, they're down by seven late in the fourth quarter.
20:20
SPEAKER_01: Uh they have first and goal at the one-yard line, they get stopped three times, which is bad enough.
20:25
SPEAKER_01: But then Narduzzi elects to kick a field goal because he can't do basic math.
20:30
SPEAKER_01: It's the single, single dumbest, most incomprehensible way imaginable to lose a football game.
20:38
SPEAKER_01: And that's that's saying a lot given it that it's Pitt.
20:41
SPEAKER_08: How much time was there left, Tim?
20:42
SPEAKER_08: Wasn't there like five minutes left?
20:44
SPEAKER_08: I think there was more than five minutes left, wasn't there?
20:46
SPEAKER_01: They were down by seven.
20:48
SPEAKER_01: A field goal doesn't a field goal doesn't get you.
20:51
SPEAKER_01: You still have to score a touchdown.
20:52
SPEAKER_08: I don't think no matter how much time.
20:54
SPEAKER_08: But then you take the lead.
20:58
SPEAKER_08: It's it's like I said, it's if there's less than five minutes left, I think I'm more inclined to agree with you.
21:04
SPEAKER_08: If there's more than five minutes left, I I think I'm I'm less inclined.
21:09
SPEAKER_01: I think well you have to you have to score a touchdown.
21:12
SPEAKER_01: You're not gonna get a better chance than being at the one yard line.
21:16
SPEAKER_08: Well, maybe you will later in the game.
21:19
SPEAKER_01: It's overthinking things.
21:21
SPEAKER_01: It's like Pete Carroll in the Super Bowl.
21:22
SPEAKER_01: It's like don't overthink it.
21:24
SPEAKER_01: Just do the just just you need seven points.
21:27
SPEAKER_01: Go for seven points.
21:29
SPEAKER_01: It's very, very simple.
21:31
SPEAKER_01: And people people are just beside themselves.
21:33
SPEAKER_08: This is how this is how painful.
21:35
SPEAKER_01: This this is how painful these memories are.
21:38
SPEAKER_01: Well, and and honestly, Steve, I was just about done at that point.
21:41
SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm I was seriously at the time, I was like, why am I doing this?
21:44
SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't have to be a pit fan.
21:46
SPEAKER_01: It's not like I signed a contract or something.
21:48
SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm actively choosing to stay in an abusive relationship.
21:52
SPEAKER_01: I and it wasn't just that one game as horrific as it was.
21:55
SPEAKER_01: That was really the culmination of those 45 years of letdowns and hard.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: Heartbreaks and disappointments and unbelievable, incomprehensible losses that you couldn't even script if you wanted to.
22:07
SPEAKER_01: And I think we as pit fans were just so very desperate for something to finally go right.
22:16
SPEAKER_01: So all of that is prologue to the 2021 season.
22:22
SPEAKER_08: That was a long prologue too.
22:24
SPEAKER_08: We had to make it feel that long because it really was that long.
22:28
SPEAKER_08: Like I Yeah.
22:29
SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
22:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was 45 years of letdown.
22:33
SPEAKER_08: Can I just add in my own little prologue?
22:36
SPEAKER_08: So from 2002 to 2018, I well, technically it went to 2020, I think.
22:46
SPEAKER_08: I had seasoned tickets.
22:47
SPEAKER_08: 2019 was the last year I had seasoned tickets to pit football when they moved to the new stadium.
22:54
SPEAKER_08: And we sat in the same seats for 16 years.
22:58
SPEAKER_08: So the 80 at the time, Heather Like, and they've done this before.
23:02
SPEAKER_08: They they average about 30,000 people a game, right, Tim?
23:06
SPEAKER_08: Like for a normal game.
23:08
SPEAKER_08: If you get a bigger team in, you'll sell the place out.
23:11
SPEAKER_08: Like the Penn State game was sold out, but that's not every year.
23:16
SPEAKER_08: And so I've been through all of this.
23:18
SPEAKER_08: Imagine going through all of that disappointment, all that loss, all that silliness with the program.
23:24
SPEAKER_08: You've spent not a lot of money, like it isn't super expensive, but it's money.
23:28
SPEAKER_08: And me and my dad would go.
23:30
SPEAKER_08: And then 2017, they finally beat Miami, and that's really the last game I went to with my dad.
23:35
SPEAKER_08: And this was really me and my dad's thing.
23:38
SPEAKER_08: In 2018, I'm like, well, I don't really have anybody to go to go with.
23:42
SPEAKER_08: And then I get a call that offseason, and they go, okay, well, you you lost your seats.
23:50
SPEAKER_08: You can still be a season ticket holder, but you can't have those seats anymore.
23:54
SPEAKER_08: And they moved me, they moved me back.
23:56
SPEAKER_08: They're like, you can pick anywhere but those seats.
23:59
SPEAKER_08: And so they moved me back.
24:01
SPEAKER_08: And I went to the Penn State game.
24:02
SPEAKER_08: Was that in 2019 to the whatever it was that next season?
24:06
SPEAKER_08: I went to the Penn State game in the rain to watch them get blown out by Penn State.
24:11
SPEAKER_08: And then the rest of the season, every year I every game I would go, they would literally have the seats where I was sitting, because I was back a section now, because I was literally 15 rows in the field.
24:21
SPEAKER_08: And they moved me back and put the students in there because she wanted a more student.
24:26
SPEAKER_08: She wanted to move the students in there.
24:28
SPEAKER_08: Nobody was sitting in those seats.
24:31
SPEAKER_08: Nobody, Tim.
24:32
SPEAKER_08: So you'd rather have nobody sit in those seats than me.
24:36
SPEAKER_08: And it's been like that since I left in 2019.
24:40
SPEAKER_08: And you wonder why is Steve not a Pit fan, diehard Pit fan anymore?
24:45
SPEAKER_08: And I didn't live and breathe it like I used to, because you know what?
24:48
SPEAKER_08: You don't want me.
24:49
SPEAKER_08: You don't want me there.
24:50
SPEAKER_08: And like you said, I didn't sign a contract.
24:52
SPEAKER_08: I I spend money on this.
24:54
SPEAKER_08: I go to one game a year.
24:56
SPEAKER_08: One game a year.
24:57
SPEAKER_08: And that's it anymore.
24:59
SPEAKER_08: And I still look at those seats and I still see nobody sat in them for the Miami game last year that I went to.
25:06
SPEAKER_08: Nobody sat in them for the Cal game.
25:07
SPEAKER_08: I went.
25:08
SPEAKER_08: You'd rather have nobody sit in those seats than me.
25:12
SPEAKER_08: And I don't mean to be, you know, make it terrible, but that's why like this 2021 is very bittersweet to me.
25:18
SPEAKER_08: It's very bittersweet.
25:20
SPEAKER_01: I get that.
25:20
SPEAKER_01: I definitely get that.
25:21
SPEAKER_01: And and and again, that that just underscores the, like I said, the the you and I go I had season tickets for a while too.
25:31
SPEAKER_01: Like we were choosing to just go and and spend our money and spend our time and spend our energy and and give our hearts to this program that that just let us down not only on the field, but like you said, off the field.
25:46
SPEAKER_01: So so again, that just the reason I wanted to go through all that because it's it's good, it's a good setup for why this season mattered.
25:54
SPEAKER_01: The Panthers head into 2021.
25:56
SPEAKER_01: The ACC preseason media poll has them finishing with the seventh best record in the conference, which is like right smack in the middle, no big expectations.
26:06
SPEAKER_01: Pitt does have an ace in the hole.
26:08
SPEAKER_01: It's their quarterback, it's a fifth-year senior named Kenny Pickett.
26:12
SPEAKER_08: He turned down going to Notre Dame.
26:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, to transfer, you mean?
26:17
SPEAKER_08: Yeah, remember they was that NIL time?
26:19
SPEAKER_08: No, there was no NIL back then.
26:21
SPEAKER_01: But you could still transfer without penalty back then.
26:24
SPEAKER_08: But they but you know there was money on the table.
26:27
SPEAKER_01: Probably.
26:27
SPEAKER_01: Or at least the prestige prestige of No, Notre Dame was paying him, Tim.
26:32
SPEAKER_08: Come on, let's not kid ourselves.
26:34
SPEAKER_08: It just it just was they're paying him, they just were you know not gonna call it a payment.
26:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, probably probably.
26:40
SPEAKER_01: So so we're we're gonna talk a lot about Kenny Pickett in this episode.
26:44
SPEAKER_01: So I want to get this out of the way very early on, okay?
26:47
SPEAKER_01: So here's the reality.
26:50
SPEAKER_01: Okay, Kenny Pickett did great things for Pitt.
26:52
SPEAKER_01: He's a Pitt legend.
26:53
SPEAKER_01: Kenny Pickett was a huge bust for the Steelers who set them back a good three or four years.
26:59
SPEAKER_01: Both of these things can be true at the same time.
27:03
SPEAKER_01: So I so I know we have a real problem in our culture today with holding like two kind of opposing thoughts in our head at the same time, but I'm sorry, that's reality, whether you want to make your own version of it or not.
27:14
SPEAKER_01: His failure in the NFL does not erase what he did at Pitt Nor does his success, his success at Pitt lessen the damage caused by his failure with the Steelers.
27:23
SPEAKER_08: I I'll say this too.
27:24
SPEAKER_08: I I the guy, like I said, the guy won the last game I ever went to with my dad against Miami.
27:30
SPEAKER_08: The guy won this season.
27:31
SPEAKER_08: He's done so many, he did the Pitt special against uh UCF.
27:36
SPEAKER_08: And I think he can still be an NFL quarterback.
27:38
SPEAKER_08: He's probably just gonna be a backup, and that's probably maybe that's all his potential was.
27:42
SPEAKER_08: He probably should have been a second or a third round pick.
27:45
SPEAKER_08: But once again, you know, the Steelers, you know, for whatever the reason decided to reach a little and you know, it cost everybody.
27:53
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, and and and he was bad.
27:56
SPEAKER_01: He was bad for the Steelers.
27:57
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
27:58
SPEAKER_08: He was bad to him.
27:58
SPEAKER_08: He won he he was pretty clutch for them, quite honestly.
28:02
SPEAKER_01: He was bad.
28:03
SPEAKER_08: He won five clutch games, and then at the end, I I he did take his ball and go home.
28:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and and even that season, remember, he was he kept he wouldn't stay in the pocket.
28:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was bad.
28:16
SPEAKER_01: It wasn't good.
28:16
SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm I'm not gonna try to like say that uh I I'll give people that.
28:21
SPEAKER_08: He it was a bad, it was and and it did set the the Steelers back because Well, when you miss on two first round him and Harris missing on two first round picks in a row.
28:30
SPEAKER_01: Well, multiple.
28:31
SPEAKER_01: We did a whole episode.
28:32
SPEAKER_01: It wasn't just those two guys, it was a whole five years of draft bad draft picks.
28:36
SPEAKER_08: Harris is a bust too, so but hey, this is a pit podcast.
28:40
SPEAKER_08: That's that's that's yeah, I'm talking about the good things.
28:43
SPEAKER_01: My my point just being that that I I I can't stand He can be good at Pitt and be bad at the Steelers.
28:49
SPEAKER_01: I can't stand the whole like what because he was bad with the Steelers, people are like, oh, he was never good.
28:54
SPEAKER_01: It's like stop.
28:55
SPEAKER_01: Why can't why do we why does everything have to be all one way or all the other?
28:59
SPEAKER_01: It's that whole politics thing that we have on on social media where you're either all on one side or all on the other.
29:04
SPEAKER_01: You can't have any objective thoughts, you can't say that you see both sides to an issue, you can't ever say that.
29:10
SPEAKER_01: Everything has to be extreme.
29:11
SPEAKER_08: Well, there's good people on both sides, too.
29:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well again, the point is being that that's that's the way we think today, and that's the way that we thought about Kenny Pickett.
29:21
SPEAKER_01: So I wanted to get that out of the way early.
29:23
SPEAKER_01: Uh Pickett had been recruited to Pitt by Matt Canada, the guy who will later become his offensive coordinator in the NFL.
29:30
SPEAKER_01: And I don't know that there are a whole lot of multiple sides on the Matt Canada debate, but that's a story for another day.
29:37
SPEAKER_08: He had one good season at Pitt.
29:39
SPEAKER_08: He did.
29:40
SPEAKER_08: He forgot how to coach or something.
29:41
SPEAKER_08: I don't know what happened to him after that.
29:44
SPEAKER_08: He was considered an up-and-coming guy.
29:45
SPEAKER_08: I mean, he was good at NC State, he was good at Pitt for that one year, and then he went to LSU, and I I don't know what happened to him.
29:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't either.
29:53
SPEAKER_01: But but again, story for another podcast.
29:55
SPEAKER_01: Uh, right away, Kenny Pickett makes waves.
29:58
SPEAKER_01: Uh, as Steve already noted, his first ever start comes in 2017 when he defeats the 10-0, ranked number two in the country, Miami Hurricanes at Winsfield.
30:08
SPEAKER_08: You aren't gonna play that clip of Pat Narduzzi?
30:11
SPEAKER_08: Come on.
30:11
SPEAKER_01: No.
30:12
SPEAKER_01: No, I've had I I limited myself to one Pat Narduzzi blowhard clip.
30:17
SPEAKER_08: He literally predicts that they're gonna there.
30:20
SPEAKER_08: I don't I think they were winning against me.
30:21
SPEAKER_08: He said, Oh, we're gonna win again against Miami.
30:24
SPEAKER_08: We did it again against West Virginia.
30:25
SPEAKER_08: It's like I love it.
30:29
SPEAKER_01: Uh Pickett the next season leads Pitt to the ACC championship game, which as we noted, he lost, he loses to Trevor Lawrence and Clemson.
30:37
SPEAKER_08: He doesn't really leave like he was a passenger on that team.
30:40
SPEAKER_08: Like that literally was the two running backs that that really and I love that 2018 team.
30:46
SPEAKER_08: That that's a great team.
30:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we did an you did an episode on that.
30:50
SPEAKER_08: Because I love it's just it that team had no business being in that ACC championship game, but they just showed so much heart.
30:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
30:58
SPEAKER_01: So Pickett has a decision to make in 2021.
31:02
SPEAKER_01: Um, and because of COVID, a lot of guys who would have otherwise graduated stuck around because the NCAA gave this additional eligibility.
31:10
SPEAKER_01: So he can come back for a fifth year if he wants to.
31:13
SPEAKER_01: Pickett says he only trusts three people for helping him make this decision.
31:18
SPEAKER_01: It's his head coach Pat Narduzzi, his offensive coordinator, Mark Whip Whipple, and the third person, Peyton Manning.
31:26
SPEAKER_01: Pickett consults Peyton Manning, and Manning actually contacts a handful of NFL general managers to ask them, like, hey, if this kid from Pitt comes out this year, where would you draft him?
31:37
SPEAKER_01: And then Manning actually collects these answers, blocks out the names of the GMs, of course.
31:43
SPEAKER_01: That's fine.
31:44
SPEAKER_01: And then and then texts it back to Kenny Pickett.
31:46
SPEAKER_01: And the general consensus that Manning gets from those GMs is that Kenny would be like a fifth-round pick if he comes out in 2021.
31:54
SPEAKER_08: So it's yeah, more avan.
31:56
SPEAKER_08: Well, now in the days, I mean, boy, nowadays with the NIL, you would never come out for a fifth round pick, especially, you know, oh yeah.
32:04
SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
32:05
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, definitely not now, but this is this is this is a little bit before we get into all that.
32:09
SPEAKER_01: And and so at this point, you know, Peyton Manning says, fifth round pick, is that where you see yourself as a player?
32:16
SPEAKER_01: And Pickett says no, and Peyton Manning's kind of like, well, I think you have your answer.
32:21
SPEAKER_01: So so the entire season we're about to cover, Steve, never happens if not for Peyton Manning.
32:27
SPEAKER_01: And conversely, Kenny never gets drafted by the Steelers either, if not for Peyton Manning.
32:31
SPEAKER_01: So there's that too.
32:33
SPEAKER_08: Well, you can both thank and blame.
32:36
SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
32:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
32:38
SPEAKER_01: So so Pickett, Pickett's hoping to improve his stock as a pro QB, but he also says, quote, I want a championship.
32:44
SPEAKER_01: That's why I came back.
32:46
SPEAKER_01: Uh, I think, I think you also wanted to be a higher round draft pick in the NFL, but that's okay.
32:52
SPEAKER_01: I'm sure he wanted a championship too.
32:54
SPEAKER_01: Uh Pitt also has a stud sophomore wide receiver for Pickett to throw to.
32:59
SPEAKER_01: It's a guy by the name of Jordan Addison.
33:02
SPEAKER_01: They also have a beast of a defensive lineman named Kalijah Cancy.
33:06
SPEAKER_01: Narduzi's heading into his seventh season by comparison for some of those other coaches we talked about.
33:12
SPEAKER_08: This is like 30 years compared to other people.
33:14
SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, so Walt Harris's seventh season was that disappointing 2003 campaign that we talked about.
33:21
SPEAKER_01: And Dave Wansett got fired right before his seventh season.
33:25
SPEAKER_01: None of the other guys from the previous 50 years even sniffed seventh seasons.
33:30
SPEAKER_08: Like maybe a fifth season, maybe, yeah.
33:32
SPEAKER_08: Right.
33:32
SPEAKER_01: So so this was kind of like okay, are you are you ever gonna take that next step?
33:38
SPEAKER_01: The season begins with an easy warm-up win over uh the the immortal UMass football program.
33:46
SPEAKER_08: Was John Calperi coaching it?
33:50
SPEAKER_08: I think Whipple had coached at UMass, hadn't he?
33:53
SPEAKER_01: No idea.
33:54
SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
33:55
SPEAKER_01: The the second game of the season is where Pitt really starts to turn some heads.
33:59
SPEAKER_01: They have a game at Tennessee.
34:01
SPEAKER_01: Now, the the 2021 Tennessee Vols are they're a good team, not a great team.
34:06
SPEAKER_01: They end up playing in the Music City Bowl against Purdue.
34:09
SPEAKER_01: Uh, but if you've ever ventured down at Knoxville, Steve, and I've probably been down there five or six times in the last probably five years.
34:17
SPEAKER_08: It's very Tennessee-centric.
34:19
SPEAKER_08: There's a lot of orange, isn't there?
34:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's it's an absolute hotbed of football.
34:23
SPEAKER_01: And and Neeland Stadium on a Saturday in the fall is really about as big time as you can get in college football.
34:30
SPEAKER_01: So for Pitt to go down there, that's a huge early test for this team.
34:34
SPEAKER_01: And before the game, Jackie Sherrill speaks to the team, and he also talks to Narduzzi.
34:40
SPEAKER_01: And Cheryl says, quote, let Kenny Pickett win the game for you.
34:44
SPEAKER_01: There's a presence about Kenny that you don't find with just any quarterback.
34:49
SPEAKER_01: So that's Jackie Sherrill saying that before the game.
34:52
SPEAKER_08: Oh, he would know.
34:54
SPEAKER_01: He would know.
34:55
SPEAKER_01: Uh Narduzzi takes that advice.
34:57
SPEAKER_01: Uh, after falling behind 10-0 in the first quarter, Pitt's offense explodes behind Pickett, who goes 24 of 36 for 285 yards, two touchdowns.
35:06
SPEAKER_01: He also runs for a score.
35:08
SPEAKER_01: And Pitt wins at Nealand Stadium 41 to 34.
35:11
SPEAKER_01: After the game, Narduzzi says, quote, Kenny is a football player now.
35:16
SPEAKER_08: I guess he wasn't before.
35:18
SPEAKER_08: I don't know.
35:19
SPEAKER_08: Uh yeah, that that was a huge win at the time.
35:22
SPEAKER_08: Big big time for them, and especially, but you know, Tennessee losing at home to an unranked pit team just proves how good the SEC is.
35:36
SPEAKER_08: And I think Tennessee should be ranked.
35:39
SPEAKER_01: They probably were after that.
35:42
SPEAKER_08: I'm just using SEC logic here, too.
35:44
SPEAKER_08: I know, I know.
35:47
SPEAKER_01: So so people now are starting to think maybe this team, what this quarterback could actually accomplish something.
35:53
SPEAKER_01: But just as excitement is starting to build, Pitt does what they had done for the past 50 years.
35:59
SPEAKER_01: They cross those hopes the very next week with a loss at home to a max goal.
36:04
SPEAKER_01: This time it's Western Michigan who comes to Heinz Field and wins 44 to 41.
36:09
SPEAKER_01: Pitt can't stop their RPO, which is a big problem because a lot of college teams do RPO.
36:14
SPEAKER_01: And it really sucks the wind out of the momentum.
36:17
SPEAKER_01: Uh Pitt gets outplayed and outcoached, but Narduzzi promises, quote, there will be a strong message delivered.
36:23
SPEAKER_08: I think there was.
36:25
SPEAKER_01: After a 70-point win over FCS New Hampshire, FCS New Hampshire the following week.
36:31
SPEAKER_08: Not the fighting Dan Kreider.
36:33
SPEAKER_08: No, he went to Maine.
36:34
SPEAKER_08: Did King Kreider?
36:35
SPEAKER_08: No, Dan Kreider went to New Hampshire, didn't they?
36:37
SPEAKER_01: Again, no idea.
36:40
SPEAKER_01: So after that game, the Panthers start their ACC schedule, and this is really where they can't afford any more of these like Western Michigan type hiccups.
36:48
SPEAKER_01: So first up in the ACC schedule, Steve, is this team.
36:54
SPEAKER_09: I'm a random wreck from going to take in the hell of an engineer.
36:58
SPEAKER_09: A hell of a hell of a hell of a hell of a hell of an engineer.
37:02
SPEAKER_09: I call the sally with the hold.
37:03
SPEAKER_09: I make my wisdom clear.
37:05
SPEAKER_09: I'm a random wreck from going to take in a hell of an engineer.
37:09
SPEAKER_09: Oh, if I had a ball and served, I dress the white roll.
37:12
SPEAKER_09: I furnalize the rain and hold.
37:16
SPEAKER_09: But if I had a sunset, I made you find it.
37:24
SPEAKER_08: Nice, nice.
37:25
SPEAKER_08: I like that they taunt Georgia in that song.
37:28
SPEAKER_01: I I love that fight.
37:29
SPEAKER_01: Science, I just want an excuse to play it.
37:33
SPEAKER_08: Well, it's yeah, they do taunt an SEC team, and it just means war.
37:38
SPEAKER_08: So they do.
37:39
SPEAKER_08: When you taunt an SEC team.
37:42
SPEAKER_01: I just yeah, I I love that.
37:44
SPEAKER_01: To hell with Georgia, drink your whiskey clear.
37:46
SPEAKER_01: Like very much like a 1918 like era, like lyrics.
37:51
SPEAKER_08: Well, he's a hell of an engineer.
37:53
SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
37:53
SPEAKER_08: He's building them bridges and railroads for the Cardees.
37:58
SPEAKER_01: I say this with all love because I have um a lot of friends who are engineers and family members who are engineers, um, and they'll agree with me that engineers are just a different breed, and that song is is a good representation of that.
38:10
SPEAKER_08: No, Tim, an engineer, really?
38:13
SPEAKER_08: Yeah, that they they have their own level of intelligence.
38:17
SPEAKER_08: It's it's it's interesting for sure.
38:21
SPEAKER_01: So so anyway, Pitt wins the game 52 to 21.
38:24
SPEAKER_01: Pickett has 389 yards and four touchdowns.
38:28
SPEAKER_08: I guess they weren't a hell of an engineer on defense, though.
38:33
SPEAKER_01: They drank their whiskey clear after that game, I'll tell you.
38:38
SPEAKER_01: Uh Pitt follows that up with a 28-7 win over Virginia Tech at Blacksburg.
38:42
SPEAKER_01: So that's two decisive road wins to start the ACC partition.
38:46
SPEAKER_08: What is like Tuesday in Pitland?
38:48
SPEAKER_08: You always beat Virginia Tech.
38:51
SPEAKER_01: Uh Pickett, who already has 21 touchdowns at this point, is starting to be talked about as a Heisman candidate.
38:58
SPEAKER_01: But even more importantly, the Pitt defense, who gave up a lot of points in those early games, is starting to gel.
39:03
SPEAKER_01: They're getting turnovers.
39:04
SPEAKER_01: They're also really hard to run against.
39:06
SPEAKER_01: Uh other guys are starting to produce too.
39:09
SPEAKER_01: Running back Izzy Abanakanda rushes for a career high 140 yards in that Virginia Tech game.
39:16
SPEAKER_01: And Pitts also in the top 25 after those games.
39:20
SPEAKER_01: But just like any championship season in any sport, there's always those fork in the road games.
39:25
SPEAKER_01: And the Panthers have theirs the following week when they face Clemson at Hinesfield.
39:32
SPEAKER_01: Clemson is the sixth-time defending ACC champion, two-time national champion.
39:39
SPEAKER_01: They're a premiere program coached by Deb O'Sweeney.
39:42
SPEAKER_01: They had a stumble of their own early in the season losing to NC State.
39:46
SPEAKER_01: But this is still a team in 2021, Steve, who's going to win double-digit games when it's all said and done.
39:53
SPEAKER_01: So if you want to win the ACC, you're just you're going to have to dethrone the champion to get there.
39:58
SPEAKER_08: Well, there's another team Pitt historically always does well against for whatever reason, Clemson.
40:04
SPEAKER_01: They've had their moments, for sure.
40:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
40:07
SPEAKER_01: Uh this is a huge game for Pickett.
40:09
SPEAKER_01: It's it's his in his in Pickett's first game against Clemson, which was that 2018 ACC championship game, Steve.
40:16
SPEAKER_01: I think you said he completed eight passes.
40:17
SPEAKER_08: I think it might have been seven.
40:19
SPEAKER_01: So I think the number eight, the reason you're remembering that is because he had eight passing yards.
40:25
SPEAKER_08: Oh, okay.
40:26
SPEAKER_01: That was his passing yards.
40:27
SPEAKER_01: Eight.
40:28
SPEAKER_08: Oh, okay.
40:28
SPEAKER_08: How many did he complete?
40:29
SPEAKER_08: Seven.
40:30
SPEAKER_01: I don't have it here, but it it I I doubt it was seven yards for one.
40:33
SPEAKER_01: I don't doubt it was seven completions for one yard at a time, Steve.
40:36
SPEAKER_01: I bet it was quite a quite a bit fewer than that.
40:39
SPEAKER_01: Uh in his second game against Clemson in 2020, he throws four interceptions and a 35-point loss.
40:47
SPEAKER_01: So he had not done well against Clemson.
40:50
SPEAKER_01: The game starts a bit slow for Pitt.
40:51
SPEAKER_01: They go down seven and nothing in the first quarter.
40:54
SPEAKER_01: They have a bad fumble in Clemson territory.
40:56
SPEAKER_01: Once again, classic Pitt.
40:58
SPEAKER_01: Just when you thought they were finally going to get over the mountaintop, they slip back down to the bottom.
41:02
SPEAKER_01: Pitt does tie the game on an Addison touchdown.
41:05
SPEAKER_01: And then comes what I think is the defining play of that entire season.
41:09
SPEAKER_01: I think it's one that literally flipped the script of the past 50 years.
41:13
SPEAKER_01: That might be a little bit of hyperbole, but let me set this up.
41:16
SPEAKER_01: Here's the situation.
41:17
SPEAKER_01: Pitt has the ball on the Clemson 39-yard line.
41:20
SPEAKER_01: There's 46 seconds remaining in the first half, but it's fourth and five.
41:25
SPEAKER_01: So here's your options.
41:26
SPEAKER_01: You can attempt a field goal, and then you'd have a three-point lead going into the half.
41:31
SPEAKER_01: Pitt's kicker that year is Sam Skarton, who is okay, but he never made a 50-yard field goal before.
41:37
SPEAKER_01: So that's not a gimme because they're at the 39.
41:41
SPEAKER_01: You could play it safe and you could punt, right?
41:44
SPEAKER_01: You'd pin them deep and then you'd probably just go into the half tide.
41:47
SPEAKER_01: Or you could try to go for it and try to get closer for the end of the half field goal attempt since this kid, you know, can't hasn't really kicked long field goals.
41:54
SPEAKER_01: It's fourth and five.
41:55
SPEAKER_01: You could probably get, you know, those five yards and then ink your way closer for a field goal.
42:01
SPEAKER_01: Well, they line up to go for it, and here's what happens.
42:05
SPEAKER_06: Here comes pressure picked up nicely.
42:08
SPEAKER_05: Man wide open touchdown Pittsburgh Taysir Mick 39 yards on fourth down
42:20
SPEAKER_01: And and I just remember thinking when that happened, sitting in my seat of like the the high level of Heinzfield.
42:27
SPEAKER_01: I I seriously, Steve, remember thinking when that happened, like this team is different.
42:32
SPEAKER_01: In all my years as a pit fan, a play like that never had an outcome like that.
42:36
SPEAKER_01: Like I'm like I like I said, it's I know this sounds like hyperbole, so I wanted to set this up with the 45 years of disappointment because that's the kind of play that just never went our way.
42:48
SPEAKER_01: And and Pickett was special, the team was special.
42:53
SPEAKER_01: Um I I don't know.
42:54
SPEAKER_01: I just I thought that play really mattered.
42:57
SPEAKER_08: You know, big play in a moment like that.
42:59
SPEAKER_08: And so what was the what was the score going into the half then?
43:02
SPEAKER_01: Like so they had a they had a seven-point lead then going into the half.
43:06
SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
43:06
SPEAKER_08: So that's big.
43:07
SPEAKER_08: That's big.
43:08
SPEAKER_08: And I think I don't think like Clemson had all that great of a quarterback that year, did they?
43:13
SPEAKER_01: Uh so that was the year that Trevor Lawrence left for the NFL.
43:17
SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
43:18
SPEAKER_01: And they had um their quarterback was Was it a gunway?
43:21
SPEAKER_08: Was it a gunway?
43:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, D DJ Ui.
43:23
SPEAKER_08: He's not he's not that good.
43:25
SPEAKER_01: He he wasn't.
43:26
SPEAKER_01: And and like I said, Clemson was, you know, this was not the the the the like the the Clemson of 2018.
43:33
SPEAKER_01: Trevor Lawrence, yeah.
43:34
SPEAKER_01: Uh or even the team they beat in 2016.
43:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
43:37
SPEAKER_01: But it's it's still again, they they were a double digit win team.
43:41
SPEAKER_01: It wasn't like they were bad.
43:43
SPEAKER_08: No, they weren't bad.
43:44
SPEAKER_08: And like I said, Pitt seems to always have success against Clemson.
43:48
SPEAKER_08: That's just been my I mean, I'll beside those two losses before this, but I mean, I I I don't know.
43:54
SPEAKER_08: I I don't think you know Clemson never scares me.
43:58
SPEAKER_08: Now Miami, they never seem to be.
44:00
SPEAKER_08: Miami.
44:00
SPEAKER_08: And I don't think they beat them this year either.
44:04
SPEAKER_01: So we'll get to that.
44:05
SPEAKER_01: But before we get to that, we talked about they they had a seven-point lead going into the half.
44:10
SPEAKER_01: In the third quarter, Clemson's trying to rally back to tie the game, and the defense makes a play.
44:16
SPEAKER_06: That's a special memory for Dustin Ross gave here to have third redeembly one of the best in the country, and obviously.
44:23
SPEAKER_05: Oh my god, oh my goodness the pitch is picked off and it's going to be a touchdown for Cervassian Dennis.
44:31
SPEAKER_05: hey.
44:38
SPEAKER_08: I yeah, that that that that was like another big play that season.
44:42
SPEAKER_08: Like and a gunway sucks.
44:44
SPEAKER_08: I'm sorry.
44:45
SPEAKER_08: Like That was a nice play by the defense, but that that quarterback was not very good for Clemson that year.
44:50
SPEAKER_01: He he had the unfortunate you never want to be the guy after the guy, right?
44:54
SPEAKER_08: Well, I think it was more than that.
44:56
SPEAKER_08: Because like at least like what's his name?
44:58
SPEAKER_08: Brian Greasy was kind of mediocre.
45:01
SPEAKER_08: This guy was he he like bounced to like five.
45:03
SPEAKER_08: They end up with Boston College at the end of his career or something.
45:07
SPEAKER_01: I mean he wasn't he wasn't good.
45:09
SPEAKER_01: I I'll give you that for sure.
45:10
SPEAKER_01: But it's like I said, it's still a big game.
45:12
SPEAKER_01: Picket, picket, 302 yards, two touchdowns.
45:15
SPEAKER_08: And they still won Clemson still won, like you said, 10 games.
45:18
SPEAKER_08: So it wasn't like they were terrible.
45:21
SPEAKER_01: Right.
45:21
SPEAKER_01: It it it this was this was like I said, a fork in the road moment because if you lose this game, then okay, you're just not you're not the cream of the crop in the ACC.
45:31
SPEAKER_01: They had to they had to win.
45:33
SPEAKER_08: And it just means more in the ACC, too.
45:36
SPEAKER_01: Well, it's the conference pits in.
45:38
SPEAKER_01: That's all you can do.
45:39
SPEAKER_01: We'll talk about that too.
45:40
SPEAKER_01: Um, one footnote, Steve.
45:42
SPEAKER_01: I was I was at this game, like I said, and I took my oldest daughter, who was, I think, about 13 at the time.
45:49
SPEAKER_01: And my daughter knows nothing and cares nothing about football, but she wanted to go to that game, and for her, like the main takeaway was that the guy behind us kept dropping F bombs at Clemson.
46:01
SPEAKER_08: Well, she learned a few new words today.
46:04
SPEAKER_01: But for me, it was I it was just it was kind of like a special memory.
46:07
SPEAKER_01: That's the only football game I ever went to with, either of my daughters.
46:10
SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
46:11
SPEAKER_08: Yeah, it's like that 2017 Miami game with your dad, yeah, exactly.
46:15
SPEAKER_01: The same thing.
46:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so so that game will always be special to me for that, for multiple reasons.
46:21
SPEAKER_08: And I always say too, the the game against UCF, the Pitt special game, is always special to me too.
46:26
SPEAKER_08: Where Kenny.
46:27
SPEAKER_08: So I that's why I love Kenny so much.
46:29
SPEAKER_08: He provided so many great memories of Pitt.
46:32
SPEAKER_01: For sure.
46:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
46:35
SPEAKER_01: So after beating Clemson, Pitt has a legit shot at the ACC title, but this is still Pitt, and sure enough, like Steve alluded to, they lose at home the next week to Miami.
46:46
SPEAKER_08: It was a bad game by Kenny Pickett, if I remember this correctly.
46:49
SPEAKER_08: But quarterbacks do that.
46:51
SPEAKER_08: Like, even what's his name, the guy that played for Clemson that we beat in 2016, the uh the guy that was having no, not Lawrence, the other.
46:58
SPEAKER_08: Oh, Deshaun Watson.
47:00
SPEAKER_08: Yeah, the massage massage barlers guy.
47:02
SPEAKER_08: Um, yeah, he he he he would do that.
47:05
SPEAKER_08: Like, and I thought he was a very good quarterback, but sometimes there's just those quarterbacks they they throw interceptions occasionally, and even the great ones do it.
47:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's that's what happens in that game.
47:16
SPEAKER_01: Uh so Miami has uh ACC Rookie of the Year quarterback Tyler Van Dyke, and he threads the pit defense for 426 yards, and then Pickett does throw for over 500 yards, which if you look at like the statute, you're like, wow, Pickett had 500 yards.
47:31
SPEAKER_08: Yeah, but he throws how many interceptions?
47:33
SPEAKER_08: I don't remember.
47:34
SPEAKER_01: It was two, and one of them was like one was really costly, like they were driving for a touchdown at the very end of the game, like very deep in Miami territory.
47:42
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
47:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, see that and that's that's what I'm saying, Steve.
47:45
SPEAKER_01: Like, see, that's why that's why you have to watch games rather than look at stat sheets.
47:51
SPEAKER_08: Because Kenny really didn't doesn't bring his A game for this one, even though like whoa, 500 yards, that's well, if if yards are like passing yards, like I've said this before, if you look at the correlation between wins and passing yards, like normally if you get over 300 passing yards, your percentage of winning goes down, and it's like the inverse.
48:13
SPEAKER_08: Woo, look at me using a math term.
48:15
SPEAKER_08: The inverse for rushing yards.
48:16
SPEAKER_08: The more you go over a hundred yards, the higher your winning percentage goes.
48:21
SPEAKER_01: So because usually if you have a lot of passing yards, you're behind.
48:24
SPEAKER_08: Yes.
48:25
SPEAKER_08: And you know, normally if you have a lot of rushing yards, you're ahead.
48:28
SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
48:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
48:29
SPEAKER_01: The only Super Bowl where somebody had over 500 passing yards was the Super Bowl, which was Tom Brady in the Super Bowl that they lost to Philadelphia.
48:36
SPEAKER_01: So there you go.
48:39
SPEAKER_01: Um so after the Miami game, Pitt can't afford another loss.
48:43
SPEAKER_01: They have to win out if they want to have any shot at a conference championship.
48:47
SPEAKER_01: They write the ship with an easy 54-29 win at Duke.
48:51
SPEAKER_01: Pickett gets back on track in that game.
48:53
SPEAKER_08: I can't remember.
48:54
SPEAKER_08: Didn't they need help this year or no?
48:56
SPEAKER_01: They did not.
48:57
SPEAKER_01: Well, they did at this point, no.
48:58
SPEAKER_01: They just had to win.
49:00
SPEAKER_01: Um, but they have to win.
49:01
SPEAKER_01: Like that, like after losing that Miami game, you can't lose anymore.
49:05
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
49:06
SPEAKER_01: Uh so they beat Duke.
49:08
SPEAKER_01: Uh Pickett has another 400-plus yard, three touchdown performance.
49:12
SPEAKER_01: And now they come home for a rainy Thursday night game against North Carolina.
49:17
SPEAKER_01: And and this was billed as a battle of quarterbacks who would be playing on Sundays.
49:21
SPEAKER_01: It's Pickett versus UNC quarterback Sam Howell, who became the starting quarterback from the W for the Washington Commanders a couple years later.
49:29
SPEAKER_01: And more than 30 NFL scouts or GMs are attending this game to watch those two guys.
49:34
SPEAKER_08: Sam Howell was not very good.
49:36
SPEAKER_01: Well, neither was Kenny Pickett, Steve.
49:38
SPEAKER_01: So, but again, this is this is this is this is college, again, but we don't know in 2021, nobody knows this, right?
49:46
SPEAKER_01: In 2021.
49:47
SPEAKER_08: I watched enough college football to know who's good and who's bad, and Sam Howell.
49:52
SPEAKER_08: And I'll say the thing about that crap, that idiot from Wake Forest, too.
49:56
SPEAKER_08: Hartman was garbage too.
49:57
SPEAKER_01: Oh well, yeah, we'll get to him.
49:58
SPEAKER_01: He was absolute garbage.
50:00
SPEAKER_01: This is really a theme this year where there's a lot of games where it's like Kenny Pickett versus you know, whoever others best quarterback.
50:09
SPEAKER_01: Uh, we talked about like Tyler Van Dyke.
50:11
SPEAKER_01: This is saying that.
50:12
SPEAKER_08: Well, like what did Tyler Van Dyke ever do?
50:14
SPEAKER_08: Like, but but I but I but I never really saw him play that much.
50:17
SPEAKER_08: I saw this Howl guy play, and he was not even that great in college.
50:20
SPEAKER_08: Like, like I'm telling you, like I've always said this about Kenny Pickett.
50:24
SPEAKER_08: When I saw him at 17, I knew he had college level or NFL level talent in his arm because when he was up against who was the kid from Pine Richmond, I can't even remember his name.
50:33
SPEAKER_08: Fiend, whatever.
50:34
SPEAKER_08: I don't know.
50:35
SPEAKER_08: The guy that McCarthy loves so much, keeps bringing him back.
50:39
SPEAKER_08: And then the uh guy from USC, who was a top-rated recruit, he does the pit games, announces them now, and you would watch their ball and they would kind of arch in, like they would have that arch to them, and then you won't watch Kenny Pickett throw, and it was like watching not as good as Jeff George, but it was like those they were just straight lines, like Ben Rothelsberg, it's just like a straight line right in, no, no little arc in there.
51:02
SPEAKER_08: And I was like, that's a pro-level arm.
51:04
SPEAKER_08: And then you know, you see this a lot.
51:06
SPEAKER_08: Even Teddy Bridgewater, who played in the NFL, like when he would throw, he would have like those arcing passes to him.
51:12
SPEAKER_08: And I always thought Kenny had a better arm than a lot of people gave him credit for.
51:16
SPEAKER_08: Like people, like when people were when he was getting drafted, be like, Oh, he doesn't have a very good arm.
51:20
SPEAKER_08: I was like, uh, have you watched any of this guy actually play?
51:24
SPEAKER_01: So well, I mean, uh to be fair, you were spot on about Sam Howe.
51:28
SPEAKER_01: He was not not really good in the pros.
51:30
SPEAKER_08: So neither was Hartman.
51:32
SPEAKER_08: Hartman was he was a they're they're like good when there's a running game.
51:37
SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
51:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
51:38
SPEAKER_01: So so again, at at the time, these are the these are two of the top quarterbacks in the conference.
51:44
SPEAKER_01: Uh so it's a it's a big quarterback showdown.
51:46
SPEAKER_01: Early on, it's all pit.
51:48
SPEAKER_01: They take a 17 to nothing lead in the first quarter.
51:50
SPEAKER_08: Kitts traditionally lost to North Carolina.
51:52
SPEAKER_08: That's one of those teams they don't have a lot of success against for weird reasons.
51:57
SPEAKER_01: That's a really good point, Stephen.
51:58
SPEAKER_01: That even predates the ACC.
52:00
SPEAKER_01: Remember like the Willie Parker game at three receivers?
52:02
SPEAKER_08: Yeah, yeah, just for no reason.
52:03
SPEAKER_08: Like North Carolina was garbage that year, and they beat us with a basketball player, Willie Parker, and Jeff Reed.
52:09
SPEAKER_08: I mean, that's right.
52:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you and I were at that game.
52:12
SPEAKER_08: Ronald Curry.
52:13
SPEAKER_01: Like that's right.
52:16
SPEAKER_01: So um, but in this game, like I said, 17-0 in the first quarter, Pitt.
52:20
SPEAKER_01: Uh Kenny passes Alex Van Pout on Pitt's all-time passing list.
52:23
SPEAKER_01: This is going to be a great night.
52:25
SPEAKER_01: You know, cross North Carolina, celebrate Kenny's achievement.
52:29
SPEAKER_01: Right, Steve, right?
52:31
SPEAKER_01: Well, UNC comes back.
52:33
SPEAKER_01: They're down by three late when Pickett throws an interception, which was not good.
52:37
SPEAKER_01: That allows UNC to tie the game and send it into overtime.
52:41
SPEAKER_01: Pitt bounces back in overtime.
52:43
SPEAKER_01: Um, Pickett hits tight end Lucas Kroll on an 11-yard touchdown.
52:47
SPEAKER_01: And then in UNC's frame of the overtime.
52:51
SPEAKER_02: Here comes the ball game for North Carolina.
52:54
SPEAKER_02: The first down of it.
52:59
SPEAKER_02: Ball game.
53:00
SPEAKER_02: Pitt gets the win in overtime.
53:03
SPEAKER_02: 30 to 23.
53:05
SPEAKER_02: MJ Devons directly interception.
53:10
SPEAKER_07: That was a pretty horrific interception.
53:12
SPEAKER_01: Well, that was just, it was fourth down.
53:14
SPEAKER_01: It was Howell just trying to throw up a prayer.
53:18
SPEAKER_01: Uh so Pitt's defense holds.
53:20
SPEAKER_01: And you know, I would say, Steve, in in any great season, very rarely is a team just going to win every game convincingly.
53:27
SPEAKER_01: You're always going to have the ugly, barely scraped by, maybe should have lost, type of wins.
53:33
SPEAKER_01: And that's what this game was.
53:36
SPEAKER_01: So now Pitt can clinch the ACC coastal division with a win at home against Virginia.
53:42
SPEAKER_08: What is this ACC coastal which you speak of?
53:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, this is back when the ACC had divisions.
53:47
SPEAKER_01: I know it's weird.
53:48
SPEAKER_01: It's like 2021 wasn't that long ago.
53:50
SPEAKER_01: Like, but we're talking about like the NIL thing wasn't there, the ACC had divisions.
53:55
SPEAKER_08: I love the coastal.
53:56
SPEAKER_08: That was the one thing I did like about the ACC was playing in the coastal because you didn't have to play Cleanson or Miami.
54:02
SPEAKER_08: It's like regularly.
54:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's true.
54:05
SPEAKER_08: Well, how would they even have divisions now?
54:08
SPEAKER_08: Like, would like Cal be in the coastal and Stanford be in the other division?
54:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's a good point.
54:15
SPEAKER_01: That's a good point.
54:16
SPEAKER_08: Cal's in the ACC coastal.
54:18
SPEAKER_08: Well, they are on a coast, Tim.
54:21
SPEAKER_01: That's true.
54:22
SPEAKER_08: And Stanford's in the other, whatever the other division was.
54:26
SPEAKER_01: So, so uh yeah, so Pitt Pitt can clinch the division with a win.
54:31
SPEAKER_01: The Cavaliers have the ACC's leading passer that year, Brennan Armstrong.
54:36
SPEAKER_01: This guy is averaging 400 yards a game.
54:40
SPEAKER_01: So it's destined to be a shootout, and sure enough, that's that's what it turns into.
54:45
SPEAKER_01: It's just a lot of back and forth, not a lot of defense.
54:48
SPEAKER_01: Although I will say Cancy actually has a pretty monster game.
54:51
SPEAKER_01: He has a season high, three tackles for a loss, and he records one and a half sacks, but the rest of the defense, not so much.
54:57
SPEAKER_01: And this one.
54:59
SPEAKER_01: Uh, this is also a marquee game for Jordan Addison.
55:01
SPEAKER_01: He has four touchdowns, and that basically clinches the bullet in the cough award for him that year.
55:06
SPEAKER_08: Well, I bet he'll cash right in on that.
55:10
SPEAKER_08: We'll talk about that too.
55:12
SPEAKER_01: Uh uh Brennan Armstrong has 487 yards and three touchdowns for Virginia.
55:19
SPEAKER_01: So, so, like I said, not a lot of defense.
55:22
SPEAKER_01: Uh Bana Canada has a 98-yard kickoff return touchdown in this game.
55:27
SPEAKER_01: If you like offense and scoring, this was definitely the game for you.
55:31
SPEAKER_01: It all comes down to this.
55:33
SPEAKER_01: Pitts up 41 to 38 with 223 left in the game, and they have third and five at their own 38-yard line, and Virginia's out of timeouts.
55:42
SPEAKER_01: So, so again, up by three, two twenty-three left, third down, no timeouts for the opponent.
55:48
SPEAKER_01: Do you play it safe?
55:49
SPEAKER_01: Because you could just run the ball and punt.
55:51
SPEAKER_01: But given that Virginia's already scored 38 points.
55:54
SPEAKER_08: Yeah, you're gonna have to be aggressive here.
55:57
SPEAKER_08: Yeah, because because if you punt, there's like I get if there was like 30 seconds left, then I get yeah, it'd be but two minutes.
56:04
SPEAKER_08: Yeah, no, that's too much time.
56:06
SPEAKER_08: Even a minute might be too like I could like you could argue more if it was like under two minutes or like a minute 30, be like, yeah.
56:14
SPEAKER_08: But like with two minutes, like, no, you you gotta go for it.
56:18
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
56:18
SPEAKER_01: And then in college, remember too, like every first down spot.
56:21
SPEAKER_08: Yeah, so it's almost like a minute.
56:23
SPEAKER_08: Like, if you unless you have under a minute, like and it depends on where you are in the field, too.
56:29
SPEAKER_08: Like, if you think you're gonna pin them back inside their own 20 or on their 20, then nah maybe, maybe.
56:34
SPEAKER_08: And they need what was it, 38 to 41?
56:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
56:38
SPEAKER_08: So they only need a field goal.
56:40
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
56:41
SPEAKER_01: So so you you're right.
56:42
SPEAKER_01: Going for it's the right move.
56:43
SPEAKER_01: Pitt does decide they're gonna go for the first down, they're gonna try to end the game and win the division right there.
56:49
SPEAKER_01: And once again, these are the moments that turn into disaster for 50.
56:55
SPEAKER_08: Formally in interceptions, yeah, or something.
56:57
SPEAKER_02: And it and Steve, it comes within inches of happening on this play, but no timeouts remaining for Virginia on the third and five.
57:10
SPEAKER_02: Play action for Pickett.
57:11
SPEAKER_02: They'll give him a chance to throw it.
57:14
SPEAKER_02: And coming back to make the catches Addison.
57:17
SPEAKER_02: And he's off to the races.
57:19
SPEAKER_02: Jordan Addison touched down Panthers.
57:24
SPEAKER_02: And may have just run them not only to the house, but all the way to the ACC championship game.
57:32
SPEAKER_08: Yeah, that was a better catch than throw.
57:35
SPEAKER_08: I remember that play now.
57:36
SPEAKER_08: Yeah, that's probably should have been an interception.
57:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that's what you can't see listening to that audio.
57:41
SPEAKER_01: The Virginia cornerback steps like right in front of that pass.
57:44
SPEAKER_08: But Addison steps in front of him.
57:46
SPEAKER_08: Yes.
57:48
SPEAKER_08: That's why he's a Bolitnikoff award winner.
57:50
SPEAKER_01: That's exactly right.
57:51
SPEAKER_01: And if that guy, if that guy intercepts that ball.
57:54
SPEAKER_08: That's probably the game, yeah.
57:55
SPEAKER_01: Well, he has room to run.
57:56
SPEAKER_01: Like again, they only needed a field goal to tie.
57:59
SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
57:59
SPEAKER_01: He would have at least gotten to like the the other side of the field.
58:02
SPEAKER_08: And there was two two ten left on the clock after the touchdown.
58:06
SPEAKER_08: So, I mean, maybe Pitt would have got the ball back, but it It would have been a disaster.
58:11
SPEAKER_01: It would have just been an absolute disaster.
58:13
SPEAKER_01: But this 2021 Pitt team is different.
58:15
SPEAKER_01: Jordan Addison steps in front of the DB, takes it to the house.
58:19
SPEAKER_08: That sends Pitt to the Even if he does it, that probably still would have sent them.
58:23
SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
58:24
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, all they needed was a first down.
58:26
SPEAKER_01: I mean, the touchdown was just kind of like icing on the cake.
58:29
SPEAKER_01: Uh but again, that's that's like I said, Steve, that's why the season was different.
58:33
SPEAKER_01: You know, it's it's that play, that's that's one of that's another disastrous, heartbreaking.
58:39
SPEAKER_01: Oh, Pitt was one play away from the ACC championship game, and they threw an interception.
58:44
SPEAKER_08: Like Yeah, there there is a lot of that this season, isn't there?
58:47
SPEAKER_01: There is.
58:48
SPEAKER_01: There really is.
58:49
SPEAKER_08: I guess it was just their time.
58:51
SPEAKER_08: Just their time.
58:52
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
58:53
SPEAKER_01: So Pitt finishes the regular season with double-digit wins for the first time since 2009.
58:59
SPEAKER_01: Kenny Pickett is named ACC Player of the Year, first team all ACC, a finalist for the Maxwell Award, a finalist for the Heisman Trophy, and a finalist for the Walter Camp Award.
59:09
SPEAKER_01: He does not win any of those.
59:10
SPEAKER_01: Uh Bryce Young wins the Heisman and Maxwell, and future Super Bowl MVP Kenneth Walker III takes on the Walter Camp.
59:18
SPEAKER_01: But um, as Steve will note in a future episode, it's coming up next time.
59:24
SPEAKER_01: None of that really matters.
59:26
SPEAKER_01: Uh Pickett has shattered records this year and now has Pitt on the precipice of an ACC title.
59:32
SPEAKER_01: And and here's a good question, Steve, I want to talk about before we get to the ACC championship game.
59:38
SPEAKER_01: Is Kenny Pickett the greatest quarterback in Pitt history?
59:42
SPEAKER_07: No.
59:44
SPEAKER_01: Who is?
59:46
SPEAKER_07: No, Dan Marino.
59:49
SPEAKER_07: That's a pretty easy one.
59:50
SPEAKER_01: Is it?
59:51
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
59:52
SPEAKER_01: Are you sure?
59:53
SPEAKER_01: I think it's I think it's at least debatable.
59:55
SPEAKER_01: I I know.
59:56
SPEAKER_08: I don't think it's very debatable.
59:58
SPEAKER_08: Dan Marino.
1:00:00
SPEAKER_08: I mean Van Pelt has all the stats, but he never really won anything.
1:00:03
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so what did Marino ever really win?
1:00:06
SPEAKER_08: The Sugar Bowl.
1:00:07
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
1:00:08
SPEAKER_01: But he lost that game to he lost that game to Penn State.
1:00:11
SPEAKER_08: You know, he won he won a sugar bowl over Georgia, and when you play the SEC, it just means more.
1:00:18
SPEAKER_08: And we were in the hell with Georgia.
1:00:21
SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
1:00:24
SPEAKER_08: Um Mac Matt Kavanaugh wasn't as good, but he won a national championship.
1:00:30
SPEAKER_08: Uh I don't know, Rod Rutherford had his moments.
1:00:34
SPEAKER_08: Uh who's the oh goodness, the oh god.
1:00:38
SPEAKER_08: I love this effing team guy.
1:00:40
SPEAKER_08: Tyler Balko.
1:00:41
SPEAKER_08: Tyler Balko.
1:00:42
SPEAKER_01: Definitely can't put him in there.
1:00:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I think it's definitely it's the it's definitely between Pickett and Merino.
1:00:46
SPEAKER_01: And I I I think I agree with you, it's Marino.
1:00:49
SPEAKER_01: But I think you can make the argument for Pickett just because he came up clutch in his season where Marino.
1:00:57
SPEAKER_01: The season where Merino beat Georgia in the Sugar Bowl was also the one where they lost to Penn State.
1:01:02
SPEAKER_01: So so uh now back then it was a little different.
1:01:06
SPEAKER_01: You know, you didn't have conference championship games or a playoff or anything like that.
1:01:11
SPEAKER_08: And the in the bowl in that bowl game was I mean, it wasn't completely meaningless, but it wasn't I mean, it was a sugar bowl.
1:01:17
SPEAKER_08: That's a big bowl game.
1:01:18
SPEAKER_01: Back then, back then it mattered.
1:01:20
SPEAKER_08: So I I I I I just think Dan Marino is the legend.
1:01:26
SPEAKER_08: He's a legend at Pitt.
1:01:27
SPEAKER_08: I know Alex Van Pelt broke all his records, and I love Alex Van Pelt.
1:01:31
SPEAKER_08: He was good.
1:01:32
SPEAKER_08: Another guy that really didn't have much of a pro career.
1:01:35
SPEAKER_08: I think he ends up being a pretty decent coach, but I I I I don't know what to say about Kenny Pickett except for I really like the guy.
1:01:42
SPEAKER_08: He won a lot of big games, was very clutch.
1:01:45
SPEAKER_08: I still think he was clutch in the NFL, Tim.
1:01:47
SPEAKER_08: I know you don't agree with me there.
1:01:49
SPEAKER_08: He he did have five comebacks.
1:01:51
SPEAKER_01: So Yeah, he he he yeah, I mean his NFL career, I mean, it is what it is.
1:01:59
SPEAKER_01: But you but you're right.
1:02:00
SPEAKER_01: I I think Marino's probably the answer there, but I think I think Pickett, you have to put him in the conversation.
1:02:05
SPEAKER_08: Even that catch though, like like I said, that was a better catch than throw.
1:02:09
SPEAKER_08: It probably should have been intercepted.
1:02:10
SPEAKER_08: And there's one like that in that 2017 Miami game, though when you remember, like there was a pass where like the Miami defense pro the guy had his hands on it and he just kind of it he just tips off his finger knit to fingertips and it goes complete to a to uh the uh receiver for pit behind him for a big first down.
1:02:31
SPEAKER_08: So I mean Kenny kind of had that, like maybe a little bit of mystique, maybe a little bit of luck.
1:02:36
SPEAKER_08: I don't know.
1:02:37
SPEAKER_01: Sure, sure.
1:02:39
SPEAKER_01: So the opponent in the ACC championship game is Wake Forest, who's also a surprise team that year.
1:02:45
SPEAKER_01: Uh they're led by quarterback Sam Hartman, who Steve talked about earlier, sets all kinds of skull passing records that season.
1:02:51
SPEAKER_08: Because it's like that RPO.
1:02:52
SPEAKER_08: It was like the RPO reminds me like the old run and shoot offense.
1:02:57
SPEAKER_08: Like you just have to stop one or the other.
1:02:59
SPEAKER_08: You either stop the pass or stop the run.
1:03:02
SPEAKER_08: You can't like stop, like try to stop both at the same time.
1:03:06
SPEAKER_08: And that's what kind of happens to Wake Forest in this game is when they couldn't run the game, Sam run the ball, Sam Harden gets exposed.
1:03:14
SPEAKER_01: He he sure does, and we'll we'll talk about that.
1:03:17
SPEAKER_01: Um Kenny has the flu the week of the game.
1:03:20
SPEAKER_01: That's a concern.
1:03:21
SPEAKER_01: But the first drive of the game, Pickett, and this is his final ever game at Pitt, makes the play that probably he'll forever be remembered for.
1:03:29
SPEAKER_04: Pickett, a very good runner.
1:03:32
SPEAKER_04: Don't sleep on those legs.
1:03:33
SPEAKER_04: Oh, he faked the slide.
1:03:35
SPEAKER_04: Sauce time.
1:03:36
SPEAKER_04: Pickett.
1:03:38
SPEAKER_03: Did that work?
1:03:39
SPEAKER_03: Touchdown pit.
1:03:41
SPEAKER_03: Oh my goodness.
1:03:42
SPEAKER_03: Did you see that?
1:03:44
SPEAKER_03: Oh, I can't wait to show you that replay.
1:03:46
SPEAKER_03: Katie Pickett.
1:03:47
SPEAKER_03: We talked about it earlier in the broadcast.
1:03:50
SPEAKER_03: His legs are very underappreciated.
1:03:53
SPEAKER_03: But right here, he gets out.
1:03:54
SPEAKER_03: He gets out of the hurry.
1:03:55
SPEAKER_03: And then what's he do?
1:03:56
SPEAKER_03: He hits him with the fake slide.
1:03:58
SPEAKER_03: And goes and hits him with the cha-cha.
1:04:00
SPEAKER_03: Makes these guys understand that he can not only throw it, but he can run that bad boy too.
1:04:05
SPEAKER_03: He's like, oh, I'm gonna slide.
1:04:07
SPEAKER_03: Nope.
1:04:07
SPEAKER_03: Gotcha.
1:04:08
SPEAKER_03: Oh my lord, Nick Anderson's like, I don't know if I've ever seen that before.
1:04:13
SPEAKER_08: Yeah, RG is that RG3?
1:04:16
SPEAKER_08: I think so, yeah.
1:04:17
SPEAKER_08: Oh god, he's annoying.
1:04:19
SPEAKER_08: Um I'm getting old, Tim.
1:04:24
SPEAKER_08: Uh yeah, what uh whatever.
1:04:27
SPEAKER_08: I mean, it's a product of not being able to hit the quarterback, and like, you know, maybe the white wake forest defense just run up and touched him, you know, maybe he does slide, but it led to a rule change, you can't fake slide.
1:04:40
SPEAKER_08: I actually caught pit cost Pitt a game against Wake Forest like two years later with uh the Olympic quarterback.
1:04:47
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, because it was like where you started this the slide kind of thing.
1:04:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:04:51
SPEAKER_01: So so I I love that play.
1:04:53
SPEAKER_01: I I think there should be a statue outside the cathedral of learning.
1:04:56
SPEAKER_08: Of him fake sliding.
1:04:58
SPEAKER_08: Of him fake sliding.
1:04:59
SPEAKER_08: Yeah, there you go.
1:05:00
SPEAKER_01: I mean it was just a huge play at the time, and and I thought the interceptions were more the big play where they well, it yeah, but it's like you needed something early to because Wake Forest was actually so so so When Wake Forest can play you straight up, they're dangerous.
1:05:17
SPEAKER_08: Like I said, like when they got a lead, like a two, they're like they're very navy.
1:05:22
SPEAKER_08: Like once you get like a 10-point lead on them, it's like all of a sudden their offense goes to pieces.
1:05:26
SPEAKER_08: It's like, oh yeah.
1:05:27
SPEAKER_08: But but if it's the opposite, then they're if it's a close game or they're ahead, it's very hard to stop.
1:05:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and so the the rest of that first quarter was a shootout.
1:05:36
SPEAKER_01: It was kind of like the Virginia game.
1:05:37
SPEAKER_01: At one point, Wake Forest has a 21-14 lead, so if it if not for that play, if they're up 21 to 7.
1:05:43
SPEAKER_08: Yeah, it's true.
1:05:44
SPEAKER_01: That's that could have been a very different game.
1:05:46
SPEAKER_01: Uh but but after after that first quarter, Pitts defense really clamps down.
1:05:52
SPEAKER_01: And boy, like I don't know, Steve.
1:05:54
SPEAKER_01: I this poor kid, Sam Hartman, I I honestly felt bad for him.
1:05:58
SPEAKER_01: He just he completely falls away.
1:06:00
SPEAKER_01: Part.
1:06:00
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's bad.
1:06:01
SPEAKER_08: Because he he wasn't that good.
1:06:03
SPEAKER_08: I like once he didn't have a running game and that winky dink, oh, I'm gonna fall, I'm gonna run, I'm gonna run.
1:06:09
SPEAKER_08: Oh no, I'm gonna because it's like they sit the quarterback sits back there and like the offensive line pass blocks.
1:06:15
SPEAKER_08: They don't even try and run block, and they just sit there and they hold the ball with the running back and they sit there and wait, wait, wait.
1:06:22
SPEAKER_08: They try and outweight the w the linebackers.
1:06:24
SPEAKER_08: And like when you're down 10 points, it doesn't matter.
1:06:27
SPEAKER_08: It's like fine, run the ball.
1:06:28
SPEAKER_08: We'll just tackle them after five yards, and you've run some time off the clock.
1:06:32
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, he he wasn't he wasn't that good.
1:06:35
SPEAKER_01: I still felt bad.
1:06:36
SPEAKER_01: I mean he's still a college kid, and it it was hard seeing him just completely fall apart on national television in a championship game.
1:06:45
SPEAKER_01: And and but credit to Pitt's defense, too.
1:06:47
SPEAKER_01: It wasn't like he, you know, Pitt's defense didn't play well.
1:06:49
SPEAKER_01: Pitt's defense played excellent.
1:06:51
SPEAKER_01: Uh Pickett, meanwhile, keeps leading scoring drives.
1:06:54
SPEAKER_01: In the process, he breaks Dan Marino's all-time touchdown passing record at Pitt.
1:06:58
SPEAKER_01: He also break breaks Deshaun Watson's ACC record for touchdown passes in a season.
1:07:04
SPEAKER_01: Addison has 126 yards.
1:07:06
SPEAKER_01: Like Abanacanda has two touchdowns.
1:07:09
SPEAKER_01: Wake Forest is unable to score any more points after the first quarter, and what looked like a shootout turns into a pit blowout.
1:07:17
SPEAKER_01: The play that seals the game and the championship comes in the fourth quarter.
1:07:22
SPEAKER_01: Pitts already up 38 to 21 when this happens.
1:07:26
SPEAKER_04: Win those one on ones, as we said, and another pick by Hartman.
1:07:30
SPEAKER_04: He's gonna trip it.
1:07:32
SPEAKER_04: Hallett housed it.
1:07:33
SPEAKER_04: Touchdown Pittsburgh
1:07:49
SPEAKER_01: And and Steve, you and I were watching that game together, and what I remember distinctly is that we both got nervous because Eric Hallett, the guy that made that pick six for Pitt, he he he holds out the ball ball before he gets to the end zone.
1:08:02
SPEAKER_01: Even though Pitt had an insurmountable lead, and even though Sam Hartman had turned into a puddle of goo, and even though, even though you know the Panthers were clearly about to win a title, I think you and I still had it in the back of our heads that something tragic, like Hallett pulling a Leon Lit and Wake Force coming all the way back to win.
1:08:20
SPEAKER_08: We were very emotionally scarred.
1:08:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that was still within the realm of possibility for us.
1:08:24
SPEAKER_01: Like we couldn't accept that this team was finally going to overcome half a century of heartache.
1:08:30
SPEAKER_01: But but I think the cool thing was Eric Hallett didn't care about the past 50 years, and neither did I think anyone else on that team, which is why they were able to accomplish what they did.
1:08:40
SPEAKER_01: Uh the rest of the game is just going through the motions.
1:08:43
SPEAKER_01: Pitt wins.
1:08:44
SPEAKER_01: Had the college football playoffs been around in 2021, they would have made it.
1:08:48
SPEAKER_09: Yeah.
1:08:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it talked about this being a very different time, even though it wasn't that long ago.
1:08:52
SPEAKER_01: Pitt would have been playing in that.
1:08:54
SPEAKER_01: But the only thing they had back then was this four-team thing reserved only for like specific schools, basically.
1:09:00
SPEAKER_01: And because Pitt was seventh, really it was.
1:09:03
SPEAKER_01: I mean, uh that was the year Alabama and Georgia played each other in the SEC championship game, knowing full well that both teams were going to be in that 14 playoff.
1:09:11
SPEAKER_08: It's funny, ever since they've expanded, how many uh national championships have the has the SEC won?
1:09:18
SPEAKER_08: Ever since NIL and the champ in the playoffs.
1:09:22
SPEAKER_08: How many yeah.
1:09:24
SPEAKER_08: Gee, it was almost like the SEC was playing their players the whole time and then had the media rigged in their favor.
1:09:31
SPEAKER_08: Once they lost those advantages, fuck weird.
1:09:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, very odd.
1:09:36
SPEAKER_01: Weird how that works out.
1:09:37
SPEAKER_08: I guess it's just the coincidence.
1:09:39
SPEAKER_08: Because it still just means more, Tim.
1:09:41
SPEAKER_08: Those national championships that have been won by other conferences don't mean anything.
1:09:46
SPEAKER_01: And and and and so, and that's the way college football was in 2021.
1:09:51
SPEAKER_01: Like Pitt Pitt literally had zero shot at that 14 playoff.
1:09:55
SPEAKER_01: Uh it was stupid, and and like Steve said, college football has gone a long way in fixing it since then.
1:10:01
SPEAKER_01: But Pitt literally won everything it was eligible to win that year, and by the strictest definition of the word, that's a championship.
1:10:08
SPEAKER_08: Well, then they lost to Michigan State, but they almost won.
1:10:12
SPEAKER_08: They almost beat Michigan State with their third string quarterback.
1:10:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so so let's get into the aftermath.
1:10:18
SPEAKER_01: Um, as Steve said, Pitt Pitt gets an invite to the Peach Bowl against Michigan State.
1:10:22
SPEAKER_01: Kenny Pickett opts out, uh, Nick Patty, who's the backup quarterback, gets hurt.
1:10:27
SPEAKER_01: Do you remember, Steve, who the third string quarterback was?
1:10:30
SPEAKER_01: Remember the guy's name?
1:10:31
SPEAKER_08: It's it's what's his name?
1:10:33
SPEAKER_08: He went ends up winning a bowl game for Pitt.
1:10:35
SPEAKER_08: I can't remember.
1:10:36
SPEAKER_01: No, it wasn't that guy.
1:10:37
SPEAKER_08: Oh, it wasn't him.
1:10:38
SPEAKER_08: Who was it?
1:10:38
SPEAKER_01: It was the immortal Davis Bevel.
1:10:41
SPEAKER_08: Oh, ooh.
1:10:42
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
1:10:42
SPEAKER_08: But he plays well.
1:10:43
SPEAKER_08: He actually plays well.
1:10:44
SPEAKER_08: He he does.
1:10:45
SPEAKER_08: But it once they were down their third string quarterback, you knew it was kind of over.
1:10:49
SPEAKER_08: That that doesn't matter.
1:10:50
SPEAKER_01: Like, as I've as I've long maintained, bowl games are meaningless, especially ones like this where the NFL bound players don't play.
1:10:57
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
1:10:58
SPEAKER_01: So so that game, that game was just like a that was like the the Pro Bowl.
1:11:02
SPEAKER_01: That was like a, oh, let's run an after the season like exhibition and see who wins.
1:11:07
SPEAKER_01: That game meant nothing.
1:11:08
SPEAKER_01: The the the real again, the ACC championship is what mattered.
1:11:14
SPEAKER_01: In terms of the rest of the aftermath, Kalijah Kansy comes back for one more season at Pitt.
1:11:18
SPEAKER_01: He's named the ACC Defensive Player of the Year, and he is then selected in the first round of the 2023 NFL draft by the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
1:11:26
SPEAKER_01: Jordan Addison determines that he's not going to have as much success without Pickett, so he transfers to USC, and he's also a first round pick in the 2023 draft by the Vikings.
1:11:37
SPEAKER_01: On April 21st, 2022, as Steve alluded to earlier, the ACC announces what is colloquially known as the Kenny Pickett roll.
1:11:46
SPEAKER_01: If a ball carrier simulates a feat first slide, officials will declare the runner down at the spot.
1:11:53
SPEAKER_01: So you're yeah, you're not allowed to fake slide anymore.
1:11:57
SPEAKER_01: As for Kenny Pickett, he gets drafted in the first round by the hometown Pittsburgh Steelers, and we already talked about that.
1:12:04
SPEAKER_08: Yeah, ad nauseum.
1:12:06
SPEAKER_01: We we we we everybody knows what happened after that.
1:12:09
SPEAKER_01: So we won't we won't bore you with those details.
1:12:11
SPEAKER_01: And like I said, it you know, his NFO career doesn't erase the 2021 season.
1:12:16
SPEAKER_01: Uh it was it was really a glorious run.
1:12:19
SPEAKER_08: Never happened, Tim.
1:12:21
SPEAKER_08: Your memory, your memories are false.
1:12:25
SPEAKER_01: And and to me, it was just satisfying for those of us that live through all those decades of disappointment to finally get to like, okay, they can actually accomplish something, but they have to win this game.
1:12:35
SPEAKER_01: Oh, they have to actually they could actually accomplish something, but they have to make this play.
1:12:39
SPEAKER_01: And then all season they did it.
1:12:41
SPEAKER_01: And then they they win the ACC championship in a blowout.
1:12:44
SPEAKER_01: To me, it's like the I never we all those years I was a fan.
1:12:51
SPEAKER_01: I never was rewarded for it, right?
1:12:52
SPEAKER_01: Like I I've been a Steeler fan and a Penguin fan.
1:12:55
SPEAKER_08: Right.
1:12:56
SPEAKER_08: And it's like it's paid off, yeah.
1:12:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's paid off.
1:12:58
SPEAKER_01: And and this is being a Pit fan is like being a Minnesota Vikings fan or a Buffalo Bills fan.
1:13:03
SPEAKER_01: Right.
1:13:03
SPEAKER_01: It's like, oh, you you had your moments and you you you got close, and there was these times where you really thought it was gonna happen, and then they just let you down.
1:13:12
SPEAKER_01: And that's what being a Pit fan was.
1:13:13
SPEAKER_01: And this was the first time that they actually gave us something.
1:13:17
SPEAKER_01: So to me, it's it's it's special because of that.
1:13:20
SPEAKER_01: And that's why, like I said, that's why I wanted to go through the I didn't go through all the all the the gory details.
1:13:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:13:27
SPEAKER_01: But but you know, that's why I wanted to go through the the the prologue of you know just how bad it was for all those years.
1:13:33
SPEAKER_01: And um, to me, this was this was special, so that's why I wanted to just look back on it.
1:13:38
SPEAKER_08: It it was for Pitt seasons because this is the most successful season they've had in the last 50 years.
1:13:43
SPEAKER_08: Yeah, it really is.
1:13:45
SPEAKER_08: You can't argue with that.
1:13:46
SPEAKER_08: They actually tangibly what they did on the field, like uh the 2004 season is the only thing that's even close to it, and like they just kind of got voted a champion.
1:13:58
SPEAKER_08: Like they weren't they didn't really they won games and they need they won that big game in Notre Dame, and uh they won a game against West Virginia, but uh this they really wanted on the field, and it's just a shame because they really didn't play any rivalry games this season, did they?
1:14:13
SPEAKER_08: Did they play Penn State?
1:14:15
SPEAKER_08: No, no, no, and they didn't play West Virginia, yeah.
1:14:19
SPEAKER_08: I I think and they didn't play Notre Dame.
1:14:21
SPEAKER_08: Like, like who uh that's another problem with Pitt is like they don't play any of the teams that you care about them playing.
1:14:28
SPEAKER_01: So well that's that's a problem across college football.
1:14:30
SPEAKER_01: Like I said, they're they're slowly fixing a lot of that.
1:14:32
SPEAKER_01: They really are.
1:14:33
SPEAKER_01: Like I I will give credit, like change is never gonna happen overnight.
1:14:37
SPEAKER_01: Um, but but if if the college football playoff would have existed, like I said, in 2021, Pit Pitt would have then had a chance to do it.
1:14:43
SPEAKER_01: Oh, for sure, for sure.
1:14:44
SPEAKER_01: To go further than that.
1:14:45
SPEAKER_01: But as of 2021, winning the ACC championship was their ceiling, and they did it.
1:14:50
SPEAKER_01: So, like I said, by the strictest definition, it's a championship season.
1:14:54
SPEAKER_01: I'll take it, like you said, best season in our lifetimes as Pitt fans.
1:14:59
SPEAKER_01: So I wanted to remember it, and I wanted to, you know, it it's an episode I wanted to look back on that team for a while, but I I wanted to give it a little bit of space before we did like a retrospective.
1:15:10
SPEAKER_08: It's a it's a great season.
1:15:11
SPEAKER_08: I I'm glad, you know, that that's such a great memory for you, Tim.
1:15:14
SPEAKER_08: And like especially going to the game with your daughter, and like those, those are the games that normally mean more than even like a win and losses, like like like you know, we've said the ones that just have like a little bit more, and that's what makes sports special, you know.
1:15:26
SPEAKER_08: You know, you can talk about you know, like Kenny Pickett cares if I was at the game or not.
1:15:31
SPEAKER_08: You know, I mean but what means to us is the time we got to spend with our family and enjoy those, you know, friends and family, you know, all those games we've watched together.
1:15:42
SPEAKER_08: We watched that championship game together, and it you know, it means more to us because we were had a shared experience, and that that's what you know sports is about.
1:15:51
SPEAKER_08: Like that's what sports is supposed to be, you know, about like at least you know, watching the team come together, and maybe they win, maybe they don't, but you know, you share a time with your friends, and that's something that you'll you'll have in common.
1:16:04
unknown: Yeah.
1:16:05
SPEAKER_01: Very well said.
1:16:07
SPEAKER_01: All right, folks, that that wraps it up for this episode.
1:16:10
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so so much for listening.
1:16:12
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