Latest / Best of Business / Jannet Xuccoa: When's the right time for a trust?

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Jannet Xuccoa: When's the right time for a trust? · Best of Business

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Speaker 3: By the way, this is the week in Collective. But
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Speaker 3: feel good sort of you know, retro up tempo sort
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Speaker 3: to Spotify and it is one of my regular go tos,
2:39
Speaker 3: among other albums of course. But it's called Christmas Cocktails.
2:42
Speaker 3: If you're curious, I'm looking for it, and I have
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Speaker 3: no vested interest in it. By the way, just to
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Speaker 3: share with you anyway, right now, welcome back and if
2:50
Speaker 3: you've missed any of the ours interesting always fantastic chat
2:54
Speaker 3: to Allison Gofton about the pre sort of Christmas and
2:57
Speaker 3: catering and food and ideas like that as well. And
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Speaker 3: now this is Look. We often have many calls on
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Speaker 3: the show, but they sometimes people save it till the
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Speaker 3: end and then they find their miss out. But we
3:12
Speaker 3: we want your participation. You can jump on the blow
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Speaker 3: whenever you want if you've got any questions on this
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Speaker 3: on one hundred and eighty ten eighty or text nine
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Speaker 3: two nine two for this our smart money and so look.
3:22
Speaker 3: Of course right now everyone's running around trying to sort
3:25
Speaker 3: out your last minute shopping not spending too much. But
3:30
Speaker 3: there is the question that what we're going to explore is,
3:32
Speaker 3: you know what we want to talk about, what do
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Speaker 3: you do with the money and wealth that you would
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Speaker 3: like to either keep in your hot little hands or
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Speaker 3: maybe have it give to your family once you've gone,
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Speaker 3: And so trusts that's what we're going to be talking about,
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Speaker 3: which have often have often are often seen as the
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Speaker 3: province of the uber wealthy. But are they I mean,
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Speaker 3: should you be thinking about a trust? When should you
3:56
Speaker 3: think about a trust inheritances? What's going to happen to
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Speaker 3: our money when we aren't around look after it? And
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Speaker 3: how much control can you actually have with your property
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Speaker 3: once you're out of the picture. So we're going to
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Speaker 3: talk about that. Should everyone have a family trust? Who
4:11
Speaker 3: shouldn't worry about it? When do trust? Absolutely make sense?
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Speaker 3: A huge number of questions around it, But anyway to
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Speaker 3: discuss that and to take your causes and Dish had
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Speaker 3: a bit of non specific advice. Of course we don't
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Speaker 3: give specific financial advice. She is managing director of New
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Speaker 3: Zealand Family Trust Services Limited and her name is Janet
4:32
Speaker 3: Zuka and Janet is with me now, Janet High, how are.
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Speaker 4: You, hello, Tim, and hello to all of our listeners.
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Speaker 3: Christmas to everybody, Yeah, compliments of this. Do you like Christmas?
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Speaker 4: I love Christmas?
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Speaker 3: Is it just the time of year because we like
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Speaker 3: the summer? Do you like the sort of decorations? Is
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Speaker 3: it the food? Is it the giving? What is it?
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Speaker 4: I love the cows, I love all the traditions. I
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Speaker 4: love decorating the tree and you know, to be really honest,
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Speaker 4: I love the presence.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, actually the music. I do love Christmas music. I've
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Speaker 3: got a daughter who plays music. In fact, I sort
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Speaker 3: of said, it's not really Christmas, honey, She's love Christmas music,
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Speaker 3: so she plays it for several months of the year.
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Speaker 3: But I do quite like at z B. Once first
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Speaker 3: of December textover, Yeah, that's what.
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Speaker 4: Makes you feel happy and bubbly.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess so. Yeah. And we've all got our favorites.
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Speaker 3: Of course, I don't get the Kylie minogue one which
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Speaker 3: is apparently hit number one. She's got a song on
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Speaker 3: the Xmas and I listened to it and watched it.
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Speaker 3: I thought, I have no idea why that's popular. Maybe
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Speaker 3: it's just because people love Kylie. But anyway, don't even
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Speaker 3: waste your time people looking at it's just dreadful. Anyway,
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Speaker 3: let's talk about trusts. How have you been tell us
5:41
Speaker 3: a bit. I mean, you've been on the ship. We've
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Speaker 3: had you on the show two or three times now.
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Speaker 3: I think this is but just for those you haven't
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Speaker 3: haven't heard you before, tell us a little bit about
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Speaker 3: you and your background and involvement with trusts.
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Speaker 4: So I run New Zealand Family Trust Services, which is
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Speaker 4: a very large trust provider in New Zealand. Were not
6:02
Speaker 4: only act as independent trustee for many trusts, but we
6:05
Speaker 4: also offer an administration service for trust as well. So
6:09
Speaker 4: sometimes we're not an independent trustee, but we do offer
6:12
Speaker 4: administration services for my sins. I've got a law degree
6:15
Speaker 4: and an accounting degree. I'm not carrying current practice certificates
6:19
Speaker 4: in either of those fields because I don't need to,
6:21
Speaker 4: but it does make it very helpful because when something
6:24
Speaker 4: crosses your desk, you look at something and you think,
6:28
Speaker 4: I think maybe we should have a lawyer on this.
6:30
Speaker 4: And we had something the other day what appeared to
6:33
Speaker 4: be a really well written shareholders agreement until I've had
6:37
Speaker 4: a good read of it and asked the client where
6:39
Speaker 4: he got that from, and that was care of google
6:42
Speaker 4: Land and AI, which didn't suit the circumstances at all.
6:48
Speaker 4: So of course we had to we had to direct
6:50
Speaker 4: and back to a lawyer to actually get some proper advice.
6:57
Speaker 4: And it's the same in the accounting field. We had
7:01
Speaker 4: had another client give us some documentation and when I
7:05
Speaker 4: looked at that, I just thought, I think we should
7:07
Speaker 4: really to their accountant because that could trigger all sorts
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Speaker 4: of tax complications. So the knowledge that I have, although
7:15
Speaker 4: I'm not carrying carrying compaxes if it doesn't need help,
7:18
Speaker 4: because you can then direct them back to the right
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Speaker 4: professionals so that no mistakes occur.
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Speaker 3: What got you interested in trusts?
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Speaker 4: Ah, it's fascinating. It's intellectually really challenging. Your trusts are
7:31
Speaker 4: meant are meant to reflect the moral values and standards
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Speaker 4: of society, and of course that's forever changing. It's an evolution.
7:40
Speaker 4: And so that brings into the judiciary and with their
7:43
Speaker 4: court cases and the decisions that they're making, and what
7:47
Speaker 4: might appear to be incredibly obvious often is not the
7:52
Speaker 4: law and goes against it goes against how things actually are,
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Speaker 4: and trust land.
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Speaker 3: They're an interesting creation. I remember when I studied equity,
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Speaker 3: which is the subject we've first introduced to trust. I
8:04
Speaker 3: think I was quite fascinated just with the fact that
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Speaker 3: you could create a particular leadlegal entity which vested in someone.
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Speaker 3: But I'm not going to try and explain trust, but
8:14
Speaker 3: just the fact that you would have a legal entity
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Speaker 3: which would be like, it's a legal personal most doesn't
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Speaker 3: it They explain what a trust is well.
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Speaker 4: First off, it's from purely a legal perspective. It is
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Speaker 4: not a legal entity. It's a relationship. It's a fuduciary relationship.
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Speaker 4: And people do have feuduciary relationships. We've all got them.
8:35
Speaker 4: You've got a fuduciary relationship with your doctor. Your doctor
8:39
Speaker 4: is meant to know better than you, and when you
8:40
Speaker 4: go to go to them, they are meant to treat
8:42
Speaker 4: you to the best of their ability. And your interests
8:45
Speaker 4: are paramount.
8:45
Speaker 3: And blubb obligations of good faith.
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Speaker 4: Absolutely, and all those sorts of things. And so that's
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Speaker 4: what trustees are about. Trustees are duties of care and
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Speaker 4: other duties of course to the beneficiaries, and so they
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Speaker 4: have a fiduciary relationship to make sure that they are
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Speaker 4: looking after and serving the beneficiaries in the best way possible.
9:04
Speaker 4: That's quite loose, by the way, but that's a good
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Speaker 4: explanation for late people.
9:12
Speaker 3: I'd be curious to know what percentage of people who
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Speaker 3: seek advice about getting a trust are doing it too
9:20
Speaker 3: late that when they get the advice, they know I
9:24
Speaker 3: should have done this twenty years.
9:25
Speaker 4: A lot of people, a lot of people. I set
9:28
Speaker 4: up my first trust when I was nineteen, and that
9:32
Speaker 4: was the very first asset I bought within a trust,
9:36
Speaker 4: and I think that that's great advice. Not everybody should
9:40
Speaker 4: have a trust, but you really want to try and
9:42
Speaker 4: set one up before before you need it. So if
9:45
Speaker 4: you're going into business, everybody goes into business for instances
9:49
Speaker 4: with great intentions of being highly successful, so they plan
9:52
Speaker 4: lots for success, but they never plan for failure. So
9:56
Speaker 4: you want to You can't set a trust up when
9:58
Speaker 4: the creditors are knocking down the door and the receivers
10:01
Speaker 4: about to walk through, So you want to make sure
10:03
Speaker 4: that whilst you're planning for success, you're also planning that
10:07
Speaker 4: if there's a rainy day that comes along, that you
10:09
Speaker 4: are well and truly prepared for that. So trust a
10:12
Speaker 4: great asset protection devices, but they've got to be put
10:15
Speaker 4: in place well in advance.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, because basically what a trust would do is so
10:21
Speaker 3: if you've got into a business and it goes bang,
10:23
Speaker 3: that if you've managed to get your assets into a
10:25
Speaker 3: trust in a timely manner, then those assets will be protected.
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Speaker 3: And I guess especially if you're trying to protect the
10:30
Speaker 3: assets the family home and things like that for your family,
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Speaker 3: so the creditors don't come and say, hey, mate, with
10:35
Speaker 3: everything that's yours is ours.
10:37
Speaker 4: That's right, and they should indeed do that, but of
10:39
Speaker 4: course they've got to be run right. So I think
10:41
Speaker 4: of trust like insurance policy. So if you go and
10:44
Speaker 4: get an insurance policy on your home, then the insurer
10:47
Speaker 4: will say we will if your home burns down, we will,
10:51
Speaker 4: we will pay out and we will reinstate. But you
10:54
Speaker 4: have to meet certain conditions. So, for example, you've got
10:56
Speaker 4: to take care as the insurance as insured, so you
11:00
Speaker 4: can't you can't, for example, I don't know, like a
11:02
Speaker 4: barbecue in the middle of the lounge. You've got to
11:04
Speaker 4: meet certain terms and conditions of the insurance policy. So
11:07
Speaker 4: it's the same with trusts. If you're going to have
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Speaker 4: a trust and it acts like an insurance policy for
11:12
Speaker 4: asset protection reasons, you've got to make sure it's run right.
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Speaker 4: So you can't just set it up, throw it in
11:17
Speaker 4: the bottom wall and go okay, I'm done now.
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Speaker 3: Yeah. Is that what a lot of people do. They
11:21
Speaker 3: set it up and they just forget about it, and
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Speaker 3: they forget to I don't know, what do you have.
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Speaker 4: They forget your trustee meetings. For example, they forget to
11:29
Speaker 4: include the independent trustee into the eleventh hour until possibly
11:33
Speaker 4: maybe they're solicicis, well, have you spoke to the independent
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Speaker 4: trustee about that? And they don't do that at all,
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Speaker 4: and so those things really they cause the trust, in
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Speaker 4: my opinion, to lose integrity.
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Speaker 3: Do you need to explain in the establishment of a
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Speaker 3: trust is there needs to be a record of why
11:50
Speaker 3: you've established a trust because it's a bit so for instance,
11:54
Speaker 3: I'm going to use a really funny analogy. Technically, if
11:58
Speaker 3: you buy in the property world, if you buy a property,
12:02
Speaker 3: and technically you are buying it to make capital gain,
12:05
Speaker 3: regardless of how long time has passed, technically you should
12:09
Speaker 3: pay tax on that capital gain. And that's about your intention.
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Speaker 3: Is there something when it comes to setting up a
12:15
Speaker 3: trust that you need to declare The reasons I'm setting
12:20
Speaker 3: up a trust are sort of for these wonderful, holistic
12:24
Speaker 3: sort of reasons when really, in fact, you just don't
12:27
Speaker 3: want your creditors to get hold of that money. If
12:29
Speaker 3: you are bud we don't.
12:31
Speaker 4: We don't put reasons in trustee, okay, but what we
12:33
Speaker 4: do do we as the settler that's the person that
12:36
Speaker 4: sets up the trust. Well, often well usually ensured. All
12:40
Speaker 4: of my clients do they write memoranum wishes and those wishes.
12:44
Speaker 4: That's that's a document that acts a little bit like
12:46
Speaker 4: a will. If the if the if the person's not
12:48
Speaker 4: around anymore, they've if they've you know, if they've departed
12:53
Speaker 4: planet to a firma then the memorial wishes comes in
12:56
Speaker 4: place and it says, well, please, trustees do all of
12:58
Speaker 4: these things with the assets that in the trust. Now
13:01
Speaker 4: in that memorial wishes document, you could indeed put the
13:04
Speaker 4: intention there of why you've set it up and what
13:07
Speaker 4: you want to happen to the to the assets. So
13:09
Speaker 4: you could put that there if you wanted.
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Speaker 3: Well, how can when it come? I mean, are there
13:14
Speaker 3: sort of I know, the obvious gruncel of this question
13:17
Speaker 3: is there's no one size that fits all. But are
13:19
Speaker 3: there generic sort of trusts that would suit many people
13:24
Speaker 3: in terms of just making basic protection of assets or
13:27
Speaker 3: are they all quite complex and the way they have
13:29
Speaker 3: to set it up. It's a bit like you can
13:31
Speaker 3: but like you can have a will where you basically
13:33
Speaker 3: just say, look, I mean, my property is going to
13:36
Speaker 3: my wife and if she predeceases me and my two daughters,
13:39
Speaker 3: full stop, sign and off, get it witnessed. All that
13:42
Speaker 3: sort of thing. How complex do you trust. How simple
13:46
Speaker 3: can they be? There we go, that's I was looking for.
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Speaker 4: I suppose the answer is that establishing the trust is
13:54
Speaker 4: really a matter of process and can be very easy,
13:57
Speaker 4: but the terms of the trusteed need to fit the
14:01
Speaker 4: circumstances of what we're dealing with and what we think
14:04
Speaker 4: we're going to be dealing with in the futures. Most
14:07
Speaker 4: trusts but we establish New Zealand Family trust services are
14:12
Speaker 4: discretionary trusts, and so what that means is that trustees
14:16
Speaker 4: have quite wide powers and beneficiaries are entitled only to
14:20
Speaker 4: be considered. They're not entitled as a light of anything.
14:24
Speaker 4: But there's lots of different types of trust.
14:27
Speaker 3: Is that the reason there's the reason that you have
14:31
Speaker 3: a discretionary trust is because you don't want the beneficiaries
14:35
Speaker 3: to be able to interfere and say, look, I'm the
14:37
Speaker 3: sole beneficiary of this trust, or we're the only two beneficiaries.
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Speaker 3: We want to wrap it all up and take the
14:40
Speaker 3: money now, or I don't know, well, I remember the
14:49
Speaker 3: cases that where if you're a beneficiary of a long
14:51
Speaker 3: term trust and you know somebody said, look, we're going
14:54
Speaker 3: to put this money in trust for you, but the
14:57
Speaker 3: beneficiaries like I'm the sole beneficiary, and it's usually a
15:01
Speaker 3: deceased to state. I think that they can sort of
15:04
Speaker 3: look through it and say, look, I want it all now.
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Speaker 4: Well, even in discretionary trust, beneficiaries can band together to
15:10
Speaker 4: bring the trust to an end.
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Speaker 3: Okay, so all.
15:13
Speaker 4: The beneficiaries can band together that if they wanted to,
15:16
Speaker 4: and they can, they can use the trust to act
15:19
Speaker 4: as a mechanism they could apply to the courts. In fact,
15:22
Speaker 4: I was having this conversation with a gentleman earlier this
15:24
Speaker 4: week about that vote point.
15:28
Speaker 3: And while they were worried that about keeping putting a
15:30
Speaker 3: trust together that would last the distance, well.
15:34
Speaker 4: Know that what they had got themselves involved in as
15:37
Speaker 4: a trust, their mother had had the trust actually, and
15:40
Speaker 4: they had three individuals independent trustees, independent trustees, someone who's
15:45
Speaker 4: not beneficiary again and layman terms to explain that term.
15:49
Speaker 4: And so these three professionals were of course doing things
15:52
Speaker 4: that though beneficiary, which he was was not very happy about.
15:57
Speaker 4: And my advice to that was really try and call
15:59
Speaker 4: a meeting with the trustees to understand what they're doing
16:01
Speaker 4: and why they're doing that and get some communication going.
16:05
Speaker 3: So were they acting in a way that the beneficiary
16:08
Speaker 3: thought was not in the beneficiary's interests.
16:10
Speaker 4: I think the beneficiary thought that the way they were
16:14
Speaker 4: acting was costing a lot of money. Okay, But if
16:18
Speaker 4: you looked at the assets of the trust and what
16:21
Speaker 4: he told me, those independent trustees were doing exactly what
16:26
Speaker 4: they were required to do at law. So I think
16:29
Speaker 4: they were doing probably a fine job. But because of
16:32
Speaker 4: the lack of communication, there's a lack of transparency, and
16:35
Speaker 4: everybody gets a little concerned and worried about that, don't they.
16:39
Speaker 3: Okay, we want your calls on this eight hundred eighty
16:42
Speaker 3: ten eighty if you've got any questions about trusts and
16:45
Speaker 3: protecting your assets, maybe whether it be while you're alive
16:49
Speaker 3: because you've got a family home you'd like to protect
16:52
Speaker 3: and you taking a few risks in business, and or
16:56
Speaker 3: after you've gone any questions around trusts. The two things
17:00
Speaker 3: I've just outlined are just a fraction of the landscape
17:02
Speaker 3: of how diverse trusts can be, of course, but give
17:06
Speaker 3: us a call. We'd love to hear me on eight
17:07
Speaker 3: hundred eight e ten eighty. In text on nine two
17:11
Speaker 3: nine to two. My guest is Janet Zaikarashi's managing director
17:14
Speaker 3: of New Zealand Family Trust Services. And we'll dig into
17:17
Speaker 3: lots more questions after this, but you can jump the
17:19
Speaker 3: gun right now on that number. Oh, eight hundred eighty
17:22
Speaker 3: ten eighty. It's twenty two past five. News Talk SEDB. Yes,
17:27
Speaker 3: News Talk sed B. By the way, are you worried
17:30
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17:33
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18:25
Speaker 1: Your Weekend, Your Way, The Weekend Collective with Tim Beverage
18:30
Speaker 1: News Talk zebby.
18:33
Speaker 3: News Talk z B wherewith Janet Zacara talking trusts. Any
18:36
Speaker 3: questions you might have and let's get into it, shall
18:40
Speaker 3: we with Catherine Hello, Hi, Hey guys, good thanks.
18:45
Speaker 5: I have a question. My mother has her house and
18:48
Speaker 5: the trust. Yeah, and she is the set lawn, the
18:52
Speaker 5: beneficiary and a trustee, but she's wanting to go into
18:56
Speaker 5: rest home level care. Do you know anything about the
19:01
Speaker 5: DHB using trust or listing the trust as.
19:06
Speaker 6: Part of the.
19:09
Speaker 5: For West. Okay, so you have to be under two
19:13
Speaker 5: hundred and ninety thousand assets. If you have more than that,
19:16
Speaker 5: then you don't get the DHP funding.
19:18
Speaker 3: That's right. And if you've got a lot more than that,
19:20
Speaker 3: they you have to spend your own money until that's
19:23
Speaker 3: all you've got.
19:23
Speaker 4: Left, right, Yeah, right, yeah, yeah.
19:28
Speaker 3: Catherine, I'll go straight to this on Janital on that book.
19:31
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's that's a large area of debate so amongst people,
19:39
Speaker 4: because you might recall that many years ago we were
19:41
Speaker 4: set out trusts and pretty much we would divest ourselves
19:44
Speaker 4: of all assets and then we would be almost guaranteed
19:47
Speaker 4: to get a West term subsidy. And West turn fees
19:50
Speaker 4: are really they can be really really high.
19:53
Speaker 3: So thousands per week, absolutely.
19:56
Speaker 4: They can be they can be thousands per week. And
19:58
Speaker 4: so there are special rules under the Ministry of Social Welfare.
20:02
Speaker 4: They have special rules on how they evaluate your assets
20:07
Speaker 4: and wealth. The person that's heading into the rest home,
20:10
Speaker 4: and indeed if they're in a couple, there's different rules
20:13
Speaker 4: for that. The rules can be really complicated, and what
20:15
Speaker 4: I would say is that I would I would get
20:18
Speaker 4: somebody to really oversee those so either the law your
20:23
Speaker 4: lawyer who might understand those rules, or even your accountant.
20:27
Speaker 4: Green Lion is an accounting firm in Parnell, and I
20:30
Speaker 4: can tell you that they have a few of those
20:32
Speaker 4: applications come through and the accountants look at that along
20:35
Speaker 4: with the solicitors, and they work out whether it is
20:38
Speaker 4: best to carry on with that trust or whether the
20:42
Speaker 4: assets should really come out and be returned so that
20:45
Speaker 4: the person can indeed get you know, might be eligible
20:48
Speaker 4: for a subsidy, because just simply putting the assets in
20:52
Speaker 4: the trust now will no longer mean that the government
20:57
Speaker 4: won't look at those trusts at all. They do look
20:59
Speaker 4: at them, and they look at when you know, when
21:01
Speaker 4: all the assets went in, what the what gifting was done,
21:05
Speaker 4: at what time it was.
21:06
Speaker 3: Done, suggesting Janet, it's really a case of if you've
21:10
Speaker 3: done it a decade or more in advance.
21:14
Speaker 4: It's potentially potentially And that's and that's why I say
21:18
Speaker 4: it's worth having your lawyers and your accountants look at
21:21
Speaker 4: that sort of thing.
21:23
Speaker 5: Right, Okay, so there's no seat answer, it's just you've
21:27
Speaker 5: got to work.
21:29
Speaker 3: I certainly no. So yeah, I think Janets. What Janet's
21:33
Speaker 3: saying is that the fact that there's a trust does
21:35
Speaker 3: not per se just protect assets and the government goes off, fine,
21:38
Speaker 3: here's the here's the subsidy.
21:40
Speaker 4: And yes, and equally, just because there is a trust,
21:43
Speaker 4: it doesn't mean that the person's never going to get
21:46
Speaker 4: a rest time subsidy. I think that it's important that
21:49
Speaker 4: it's looked at professionally when the application is being made.
21:53
Speaker 4: That's what I'm trying, That's what I'm trying to trying
21:56
Speaker 4: to get across.
21:57
Speaker 3: How long ago was the trust set up?
22:00
Speaker 5: Oh twenty or more years ago, ages ago?
22:02
Speaker 4: And I wonder when when they were doing the gifting.
22:05
Speaker 4: There was a time I think it was about two
22:07
Speaker 4: thousand and ten when people no longer I mean, you
22:11
Speaker 4: could always forgive as much debt as you liked, but
22:13
Speaker 4: you know, center over twenty seven thousand you paid duty
22:16
Speaker 4: on So do you remember then tim it came in
22:19
Speaker 4: there was.
22:19
Speaker 3: A never law inflation adjusted it's been twenty seven grand
22:23
Speaker 3: for ages.
22:25
Speaker 4: Well, and then you look came in and everybody could
22:28
Speaker 4: gift as much as they like without paying any duty.
22:32
Speaker 4: And you had a lot of people do what was
22:34
Speaker 4: called lump some gifting.
22:36
Speaker 3: Except I've seen in because we've got to issue in
22:39
Speaker 3: our family with this sort of stuff that in the
22:41
Speaker 3: application for the subsidy, they have their own criteria which
22:46
Speaker 3: limits gifting to twenty seven thousand a year. So it
22:49
Speaker 3: doesn't matter what the law says. The rest time subsidy
22:52
Speaker 3: looks at it in an old school way, absolutely.
22:55
Speaker 4: And so so as a consequence of that, when people
22:57
Speaker 4: lump some gift, they diversed. They divested themselves of all
23:01
Speaker 4: of their assets there and then, and that can cause
23:04
Speaker 4: real issues when they're looking at whether they're going to
23:07
Speaker 4: give a rest home sty or not.
23:09
Speaker 3: Because you might have got rid of your assets, but
23:12
Speaker 3: they behave as if you haven't and you don't have
23:15
Speaker 3: control over those assets. So gosh, that's yes.
23:18
Speaker 4: So that's another reason why trust is so interesting.
23:22
Speaker 3: You see, did you get that sort of Catherine, how.
23:25
Speaker 4: Complixent it can be?
23:26
Speaker 5: Yes, thank you very much. There, I reappreciate it.
23:30
Speaker 3: Great call. I mean, I know these are difficult things.
23:32
Speaker 3: So yeah, So legally you can divest yourselves and of
23:38
Speaker 3: whatever assets and a lump sum. But when it comes
23:41
Speaker 3: to the rest time subsidy, they may say not good
23:46
Speaker 3: enough because we only accept twenty seven thousand.
23:49
Speaker 4: A year, and that was back then it was twenty
23:52
Speaker 4: seven thousand per person. But as soon as that law
23:54
Speaker 4: change came in, then there was a court case a
23:56
Speaker 4: few years later and it's twenty seven thousand per carple. Okay, yes,
24:01
Speaker 4: so the rules change.
24:02
Speaker 3: So if you've got a chunk of money, if you've
24:05
Speaker 3: got a great deal of money, you're really going to
24:07
Speaker 3: struggle to give away much of that. I mean, hang
24:10
Speaker 3: on a minute, yes, I mean you could do it
24:12
Speaker 3: ten years in advance and still only give that's only
24:15
Speaker 3: twenty seven, two hundred and seventy thousand. So if you've
24:17
Speaker 3: got millions, yes, good luck with the rest home substitute.
24:24
Speaker 3: Of course the.
24:24
Speaker 4: Argument there as well, if you've got millions, you should
24:27
Speaker 4: be paying a restaurant care.
24:28
Speaker 2: Yeah.
24:28
Speaker 4: Wow, you know we're oprahlend of words there with alistons.
24:32
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I shouldn't have gone millions, but I
24:34
Speaker 3: mean literally the cook case could be you've simply got
24:36
Speaker 3: a family home in I don't know, Saint John's.
24:40
Speaker 4: And that's what And that's over a million these days.
24:43
Speaker 3: Although if one of them still living in the family home.
24:46
Speaker 4: True, and there's different rules there. That's which is why
24:48
Speaker 4: I'm saying, go to the professionals and have a look
24:50
Speaker 4: at that application with the professional So that's just.
24:52
Speaker 3: One call and we see how complex it is. So
24:55
Speaker 3: let's continue and see where we go. Now with Brendan, Hello,
25:01
Speaker 3: good good.
25:02
Speaker 6: Yes, good good. Look Look I haven't got a trust,
25:07
Speaker 6: but look I've been in the building trade most of
25:10
Speaker 6: my life. Look do you use the word At the
25:14
Speaker 6: beginning of your speel, there was there was devious and
25:18
Speaker 6: integrity built into you.
25:21
Speaker 3: Said, traditional duties and all that.
25:25
Speaker 6: If people owe money, and people owe creditors, why should
25:30
Speaker 6: their assets be protected so they don't pay them. It
25:34
Speaker 6: just seems like it's shirking their financial responsibilities to pay
25:39
Speaker 6: their debts. They hide their money and a trust and
25:45
Speaker 6: then you know, the poor plumber or the or placemakers
25:49
Speaker 6: or whatever say, should you go us, Oh no, you
25:52
Speaker 6: can't touch that. It's all on a trust which you
25:54
Speaker 6: can't touch our house. I mean that that's much. Really,
25:59
Speaker 6: it's really immoral.
26:00
Speaker 3: Well okay, let's but that's a lot of the objections
26:03
Speaker 3: of people that are such and such. It's good it
26:05
Speaker 3: all wrapped up in a trust.
26:06
Speaker 4: You know.
26:07
Speaker 3: Anyway, Janet, what's you.
26:09
Speaker 4: And I can understand that perspective. But there's also the
26:12
Speaker 4: other perspective, Brandon, and that is this if everybody who
26:17
Speaker 4: who goes into business with the with the best will
26:19
Speaker 4: in the world, they're not out to, you know, to
26:22
Speaker 4: rip anybody off. But but but issues happen which may
26:27
Speaker 4: be no fault of their own. And I'll give you
26:28
Speaker 4: a little example in a moment. If everybody starts off
26:32
Speaker 4: like that, then you might get to find that New
26:34
Speaker 4: Zealand no longer has an entrepreneurial spirit and nobody actually
26:37
Speaker 4: wants to take the chance of going into business. I'm
26:40
Speaker 4: going to give you an example of how how somebody
26:43
Speaker 4: can end up in trouble and it's no fault off
26:45
Speaker 4: their own.
26:47
Speaker 6: That's just that's just an example.
26:49
Speaker 4: But I mean, and and our land and our landscape
26:53
Speaker 4: is littered with them, littered with them, these examples. So
26:57
Speaker 4: here is an instant where you are in business and
27:01
Speaker 4: you're going to do business with somebody else and they
27:04
Speaker 4: can't pay you, and so you end up not being
27:06
Speaker 4: able to pay you know, your creditors. So it's a
27:09
Speaker 4: run on effect. Now that's not that's not your fault,
27:11
Speaker 4: that somebody else has fault possibly, but that's a domino effect.
27:16
Speaker 3: It's also pointing out, Brendon, that we do have a
27:19
Speaker 3: company structure in New Zealand where unless you have been
27:22
Speaker 3: I mean increasingly they can be looked through. But we
27:24
Speaker 3: still we have a company structure where you set up
27:26
Speaker 3: your business, you have the right amount of capital backing
27:29
Speaker 3: it up, and you go from there. And and the
27:31
Speaker 3: trust is a step behind that in terms of protecting
27:34
Speaker 3: the family home and stuff. I mean, it's a funny one.
27:36
Speaker 3: I can understand what you say, though, I.
27:37
Speaker 4: Mean, I see two sides to the argument.
27:41
Speaker 6: Yeah, is that you know, you get these people that
27:44
Speaker 6: are owned you know, you know, a million dollars and
27:47
Speaker 6: they get ten cents from a dollar or something, you know,
27:49
Speaker 6: because it's all the rest is in the trust and
27:51
Speaker 6: they and they've still got there a couple of homes
27:54
Speaker 6: in their beach place and there you know, luxury cars
27:58
Speaker 6: and those people. Yeah, the people that are owned Bodley Squat.
28:05
Speaker 5: Really.
28:05
Speaker 3: Yeah, It's it's constantly a trick, key ethical issue, and
28:09
Speaker 3: I think you know, there are a lot of people
28:11
Speaker 3: listening to I mean there It is a tricky issue
28:13
Speaker 3: because you do get people who you know, that are
28:15
Speaker 3: the creditors through no fauld of their own. They're the
28:17
Speaker 3: ones who get left out of pocket.
28:18
Speaker 4: Whereas yeah, as I say, I can unders I can
28:22
Speaker 4: understand both both sides of the coin in an issue
28:26
Speaker 4: like that. But I can assure you the trust that
28:28
Speaker 4: we set up and that we're involved in the people
28:31
Speaker 4: behind those trusts are genuine, genuine people that are in
28:36
Speaker 4: business and want to do well in business.
28:38
Speaker 3: I think the thing is is that often high profile
28:42
Speaker 3: there are hope, high profile cases where you think, got
28:45
Speaker 3: somebody's company's gone bying and they're still cruising around in
28:48
Speaker 3: a Lamborghini and all their creditors have been unpaid and
28:51
Speaker 3: stuff and we can all think of examples where we go, well,
28:53
Speaker 3: that's just something's wrong there.
28:55
Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, and I do take do take the point.
28:59
Speaker 3: But it's probably worth pointing out that there is quite
29:01
Speaker 3: a hope there's some high profile cases where people may
29:04
Speaker 3: have been looking like they've been leaving high in the hog,
29:06
Speaker 3: but actually the government's looking through their business dealings and
29:09
Speaker 3: whether they've behaved in the right manner and they actually
29:12
Speaker 3: are actually getting a certain come up. And it's without
29:14
Speaker 3: mentioning names, but we can always imagine certain cases which
29:17
Speaker 3: attract our attention in that respect. But you know what
29:19
Speaker 3: we have to do next before we go to Jody.
29:21
Speaker 3: Is we going to take a quick break? Oh eight
29:24
Speaker 3: hundred eight ten eighty twenty three minutes to six, Yes,
29:33
Speaker 3: News Talk. Se'd be with Tim Beverage. My guest is
29:36
Speaker 3: Janet Zuccoa. She's managing director of New Zealand Family Trust
29:39
Speaker 3: Services Limited, talking about trusts. Any questions you've gotten, As
29:42
Speaker 3: I say, you got to get in early because we'll
29:44
Speaker 3: run out of time. But let's go to Jody.
29:47
Speaker 5: Hello, Hello, Hello, you good.
29:50
Speaker 3: Thanks.
29:51
Speaker 7: I have a family, a trust in that my father's
29:55
Speaker 7: house when he passed away was left in a living
29:58
Speaker 7: trust for me to be able to live in and
30:02
Speaker 7: to have financial benefit from an example, to rent to
30:07
Speaker 7: the house, and then when I pass, it goes to
30:11
Speaker 7: my three children, who are who I suppose are the owners.
30:16
Speaker 7: So in effect, I'm maintaining a property for the benefit
30:19
Speaker 7: benefit of my children, which is a great thing.
30:22
Speaker 4: You're a life benefit, I'm sure you aren't you, Jody.
30:24
Speaker 4: You know you've got like a life interest in it.
30:27
Speaker 7: A life interest, that's right, And it does seem like
30:33
Speaker 7: a burden at times. It feels like I'm maintaining this
30:35
Speaker 7: property for the benefits Further down the track, one of
30:43
Speaker 7: my children is old enough now, they've just graduated with
30:47
Speaker 7: quite a prominent you know, a good sensible degree and
30:52
Speaker 7: can earn enough money. I'd like to know whether I
30:56
Speaker 7: can draw on the the assets the equity in this
31:02
Speaker 7: house and be able to use that for who to
31:07
Speaker 7: be able to buy another property, to be able to
31:10
Speaker 7: set her up before I die, because I'm quite good
31:14
Speaker 7: health at the moment, so I'm not planning on popping
31:16
Speaker 7: the cross anytime soon. So i want to know how
31:21
Speaker 7: good damn how do I benefit my children?
31:26
Speaker 4: Depend on the terms of the trusteed, So you'll need
31:30
Speaker 4: you'll need somebody to read that trusteed and really help you,
31:34
Speaker 4: help you through that to see what could actually be
31:37
Speaker 4: done using the assets now to benefit the beneficiaries.
31:45
Speaker 3: Who set the trust up.
31:48
Speaker 7: My father set the trust up, and he did it
31:50
Speaker 7: in this way, I think because my partner wasn't very
31:54
Speaker 7: good with business. He was about to go bankrupt, and
31:58
Speaker 7: I was really worried that I would be bullied and
32:01
Speaker 7: pressured and.
32:02
Speaker 5: To be having put.
32:06
Speaker 7: Exactly And that was a very real and.
32:09
Speaker 4: That's another reason why why we have trust. We are
32:12
Speaker 4: going to have a massive transfer of wealth from generations
32:15
Speaker 4: in the next twenty odd years, and a lot of
32:18
Speaker 4: people are worried. A lot of parents are worried that
32:21
Speaker 4: when the wealth transfers to their children who are who
32:24
Speaker 4: are adults, but we'll call them children who are who
32:27
Speaker 4: are children, that should anything happen in the child's relationship,
32:32
Speaker 4: that the inheritance goes sidewards, that it's you know, it's
32:36
Speaker 4: fifty to fifty and you do that a couple of times,
32:38
Speaker 4: and you know you end up with them.
32:40
Speaker 3: About fifteen percent consent. Yeah, Actually, there'll be a lot
32:45
Speaker 3: of eccet your your kids. They are actually beneficial beneficiaries.
32:52
Speaker 3: You are the life beneficiary sort of whose interest precedes them.
32:56
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, so I think what JODI's saying is she
32:59
Speaker 4: gets the use of the assets, but they're really her
33:02
Speaker 4: held in preservation ultimately for the final beneficiaries, which which
33:07
Speaker 4: from this conversation appeared to be the three children.
33:09
Speaker 3: Because sometimes an example of that would be, for instance,
33:12
Speaker 3: you might be the life beneficiary of a property, so
33:15
Speaker 3: you basically the family home goes to Jody and her
33:19
Speaker 3: children get to benefit later on. Can that create problems
33:23
Speaker 3: with Jodie's like, well, that's very nice, but I'd like
33:25
Speaker 3: to sell this and get a different house.
33:28
Speaker 4: Well, it can, but again the terms of the trusteed
33:32
Speaker 4: may well be wide enough to permit.
33:34
Speaker 7: It, okay, And there are allowances for when I become
33:38
Speaker 7: a little old lady if this property isn't suitable, one
33:43
Speaker 7: can be secure. But of course, to financially help the
33:47
Speaker 7: children into their own homes, yes, before say they're in
33:51
Speaker 7: their late forties.
33:52
Speaker 8: Yeah, that's the real question.
33:55
Speaker 4: That's a very good point. So a lot of parents
33:57
Speaker 4: are you know, are doing that these days. In fact,
34:01
Speaker 4: I've just written an article on that. It's going to
34:03
Speaker 4: be on our website in the next three days. But
34:05
Speaker 4: I've just written that article on how to help your
34:07
Speaker 4: children and to enter a home, and it may well
34:10
Speaker 4: be using a trust so that your pets, so that
34:12
Speaker 4: the parents giving the money or providing providing the werewall
34:17
Speaker 4: to as a deposit or even a large large portion
34:20
Speaker 4: of the purchase price, can ensure that it is protected
34:23
Speaker 4: in relationship times.
34:25
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it looks like you'll need to get a
34:26
Speaker 3: bit of advice on the text of that trust there, Jodi.
34:29
Speaker 3: But it might be doable.
34:31
Speaker 4: Maybe doable.
34:32
Speaker 3: Yeah, good on your Jody, really appreciate your call on that.
34:36
Speaker 3: Let's go to Emma.
34:39
Speaker 8: Hello, Hi, Hi guys, Hey, this might be how long
34:43
Speaker 8: is a piece of string cup question? Jenna. I'm just
34:48
Speaker 8: wondering if you've got original settler pass trusted up about
34:53
Speaker 8: nineteen props at nineteen years ago. Three trustees that have
34:56
Speaker 8: been there ever since the original settler's dead, four beneficiaries.
35:00
Speaker 8: One beneficiary has taken umbrage with the way the trust
35:03
Speaker 8: has been run. How long? And you've got two cases
35:06
Speaker 8: slugging it out. A lawyer friend of mine set these
35:10
Speaker 8: people that make the money. Here are the lawyers it's
35:12
Speaker 8: been slugged at? How long? How long years can you
35:15
Speaker 8: expect it to go on? I know it's a bit
35:17
Speaker 8: of a piece of strength, you know, but really within reason,
35:20
Speaker 8: you know, like how long?
35:23
Speaker 9: It's not that quock be another.
35:25
Speaker 3: Way to phrase the question, how quickly could we hope
35:27
Speaker 3: to have it sorted well?
35:29
Speaker 8: With the new laws that came out twenty nineteen. Surely
35:31
Speaker 8: it's a lot clearer now, isn't it. I mean, it's
35:34
Speaker 8: not that complex if you specialize in it. I don't
35:36
Speaker 8: get so the legislation.
35:39
Speaker 4: Has indeed helped us. It has helped us, and in
35:42
Speaker 4: that regard, it has strength and beneficiaries rights, and it's
35:45
Speaker 4: how trustees, especially professional trustees, independent trustees, more accountable. And
35:50
Speaker 4: it does provide mechanisms for example if, for instance, if
35:57
Speaker 4: people can't agree, then there is always the result to
36:01
Speaker 4: the courts. But I'd like to think that professional trustees
36:04
Speaker 4: can sit down and have national conversations. And if it's
36:08
Speaker 4: beneficiaries or odds with each other, then really trustees can
36:12
Speaker 4: call meetings with beneficiaries and say well, this is what
36:14
Speaker 4: we're tabling and this is the reason why.
36:17
Speaker 8: So it's not happening though you've got two cases, like
36:19
Speaker 8: I say, slugging it out and.
36:21
Speaker 4: Other other trustees independent trustees where they also beneficiaries of.
36:25
Speaker 8: The trust independent one is not though, so.
36:29
Speaker 4: So one is a trustee beneficiary? Is that correct?
36:32
Speaker 7: Yes?
36:32
Speaker 8: Yes, I'm just thinking how long, you know, really and
36:35
Speaker 8: truly what's reasonable? I guess it could go for years,
36:38
Speaker 8: couldn't it that regard.
36:40
Speaker 3: Astronomical The cost would be dreadful.
36:43
Speaker 4: I would think if it goes on and on like that.
36:45
Speaker 4: But in that regard, if it's only one beneficiary, the
36:49
Speaker 4: trustees have a duty to all of the beneficiaries. So
36:54
Speaker 4: to a degree, the trustees have to step in and
36:56
Speaker 4: try and bring some resolution to matters. I would have.
36:59
Speaker 8: Thought, mm, okay, yeah, I'm just.
37:06
Speaker 4: What what what can you call them eating with the trustees?
37:11
Speaker 8: M yes, yes, but yeah, just one is not, so
37:16
Speaker 8: I can't say too much. But it's just interesting. I
37:18
Speaker 8: just thought, you know, as an outsider, because I loved
37:20
Speaker 8: law and looking at it, and it's just being involved
37:22
Speaker 8: as well though. I was just thinking, how long can
37:24
Speaker 8: this possibly go on? You know? Like I said, the
37:26
Speaker 8: only people making all the money in the moment of
37:28
Speaker 8: the two cases, yes.
37:29
Speaker 3: Involved, but like most animosity and divorces, I think the
37:34
Speaker 3: only one is out of those.
37:38
Speaker 4: Matters can indeed be they can be helped either by
37:43
Speaker 4: the courts or buy mediation. But in the very first instance,
37:46
Speaker 4: I like to think that the trustees will sit down
37:48
Speaker 4: because they and have a good chatter, because they they
37:51
Speaker 4: do have duties to all beneficiaries, not just one beneficiary.
37:55
Speaker 8: Yeah, sorry, you benefit.
37:57
Speaker 3: What's your position here?
37:58
Speaker 8: I don't want to say too much. I really don't.
38:00
Speaker 8: Not not on there, and if that can't work, then
38:03
Speaker 8: the courts will sort it out pronto, hopefully, you know.
38:06
Speaker 3: I do have just why you're on the line. I
38:09
Speaker 3: just asked this question. I mean, could M speak to
38:12
Speaker 3: without you know, as since you talk to the cass
38:14
Speaker 3: But is there a way of MS seeking advice from
38:17
Speaker 3: somebod who's just you know, knows a few things about
38:19
Speaker 3: trust to have a look at it? I mean, could
38:21
Speaker 3: they talk, could she talk to you? Or you could?
38:24
Speaker 4: Indeed you've you know, our company, New Zealand Family Trust Services.
38:28
Speaker 4: So in the first instance, I do take a lot
38:31
Speaker 4: of course from people and then can help them a
38:33
Speaker 4: little bit along their way.
38:34
Speaker 3: And you can manage that as well if you want to.
38:36
Speaker 3: That's my suggestion, by the way, not not janets the MS.
38:39
Speaker 3: So if you want to if you want to.
38:41
Speaker 4: Seek some advice right place, if you've got a great
38:43
Speaker 4: lawyer who knows about trust, so I would have a
38:47
Speaker 4: chat to them.
38:48
Speaker 8: Yeah, so you would say it's pretty specialized. Feel thank
38:50
Speaker 8: you very much. And guys, okay, thank you appreciate it.
38:53
Speaker 3: These just as every time we get you on I
38:56
Speaker 3: sort of think, God, this is actually quite fascinating this stuff.
38:59
Speaker 3: We could talk for quite a long time, but unfortunately
39:00
Speaker 3: we don't have much time, but we'll come back. We'll
39:02
Speaker 3: see if we can squeeze on a call with Ryan
39:03
Speaker 3: before we wrap things up. It is very quick call.
39:07
Speaker 3: It is ten and a half minutes to six news talks.
39:09
Speaker 3: He'd be it's time to squeeze it. One more call
39:26
Speaker 3: with Janet's ACA from New Zealand Family Trust Services. By
39:29
Speaker 3: the way, if you do want to actually get some
39:30
Speaker 3: advice on trust, you're welcome to get in touch with
39:32
Speaker 3: New Zealand Family Trust Services and asked for Janet and
39:35
Speaker 3: I'm sure she'd love to help you. But anyway, let's
39:36
Speaker 3: see if we can squeeze in one more quick bit
39:38
Speaker 3: of advice or help not we're not personalized advice, of course, Ryan, Ullo.
39:43
Speaker 9: Sam, how are good. Thanks, good. I'm just bringing So
39:48
Speaker 9: I was recently contacted by a family friend who just
39:53
Speaker 9: in conversation let me know that I was going to
39:56
Speaker 9: be I am his trustee for two of his trusts.
40:00
Speaker 9: And I don't really know what to say about that
40:02
Speaker 9: or how I felt about that. But I suppose my
40:06
Speaker 9: question is should I I want to find out from
40:09
Speaker 9: him what the details of the trusts are in all
40:13
Speaker 9: that sort of stuff, or.
40:15
Speaker 4: Can I just understand that again? So your your friend
40:19
Speaker 4: said that you are a trustee of the trust or
40:22
Speaker 4: did he say you were bene fishery of the trust?
40:26
Speaker 9: He said, I'll be the trust trustee.
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Speaker 4: You're going to be the trustee or you are the
40:31
Speaker 4: trustee now I am. Now, Well, if you were a
40:34
Speaker 4: trustee now, you would have had to assigned documentation. Okay,
40:39
Speaker 4: that's the first thing I had to now. Okay, So
40:43
Speaker 4: you would have had to sign documentation. And then you
40:46
Speaker 4: will be bound by the trust out twenty nineteen and
40:49
Speaker 4: of course or the common law, and there will be
40:51
Speaker 4: various things that you will need to be doing. A
40:54
Speaker 4: quick example of that is that you will need to
40:57
Speaker 4: know what consists of the trust fund and be dealing
41:00
Speaker 4: with that appropriately. But I can't see how you could
41:03
Speaker 4: be a trustee if you've never signed anything.
41:05
Speaker 3: Is this person your friend?
41:08
Speaker 4: Is it?
41:08
Speaker 3: Because are they saying that they've got you in their
41:11
Speaker 3: will as someone who's going to be having some responsibility
41:14
Speaker 3: or something, or is it about it literally a trust
41:16
Speaker 3: they say they've set up now.
41:19
Speaker 9: So he's had some trust and he's had trusts, he's
41:23
Speaker 9: had some falling out with some. Fairly, I guess, and
41:26
Speaker 9: I guess I'm the closest thing is something at the moment.
41:30
Speaker 9: And maybe I guess maybe I interpreted it wrong that
41:34
Speaker 9: I'll go in to.
41:35
Speaker 3: Be one or you might need to seek seek some
41:38
Speaker 3: clarity from it.
41:39
Speaker 4: But yes, so be very clear what exactly you are
41:42
Speaker 4: now and what he wants you to do in the future.
41:44
Speaker 4: But if you are a trustee, you do indeed have
41:47
Speaker 4: duties now to attend to.
41:50
Speaker 9: Yeah, because I was wondering whether I needed to find
41:53
Speaker 9: out what the details of it.
41:54
Speaker 3: And yeah, absolutely, yeah, Sorry, we can't add for more
41:57
Speaker 3: help with theirs with it shorter time. I did want
42:00
Speaker 3: to answer this quick text says Tim. We have a
42:03
Speaker 3: trust as we have a business. We only have a
42:06
Speaker 3: family home and the trust as it's our only asset.
42:08
Speaker 3: It costs us approximately a thousand bucks a year to
42:10
Speaker 3: run it. Should we keep it? Not specific financial advice,
42:14
Speaker 3: but I would tend to think if you've gone to
42:16
Speaker 3: the trouble of keeping your house and a trust, I
42:18
Speaker 3: would tend to keep it.
42:19
Speaker 4: Miss And if you're in business, yes, so that is
42:22
Speaker 4: your that's your insurance policy that I was talking about before.
42:25
Speaker 4: That's the asset protection, providing that it's actually run quickly.
42:29
Speaker 4: We for for our fees were six hundred and ninety
42:32
Speaker 4: five a year, and we hold an annual trustee meeting
42:34
Speaker 4: with that, so I guess that's a little bit cheaper.
42:37
Speaker 4: It's pretty important to make sure that things are done
42:40
Speaker 4: annually to ensure the trust retains its integrity and stands
42:44
Speaker 4: up should anything happen in that business.
42:46
Speaker 3: I probably wouldn't hurt to get a little bit of
42:48
Speaker 3: advice from someone who's maybe not one of the trustees. Now,
42:51
Speaker 3: just get some advice from someone about about why you
42:53
Speaker 3: might want to keep it. That's all we can do.
42:56
Speaker 3: But time flies, Janet, doesn't that mean at the end
43:01
Speaker 3: of it.
43:03
Speaker 4: Yeah, Married Christmas to you, Tim, and Merry Christmas to
43:07
Speaker 4: all of our listeners. I hope you have a really
43:09
Speaker 4: joyous and peaceful Christmas.
43:12
Speaker 3: Indeed, And if you want to New Zealand Family Trust Services,
43:15
Speaker 3: that's Janet Zuka z U c CooA. And thanks for
43:18
Speaker 3: my producer Lock. Good job Lock, and I'll catch I'll
43:22
Speaker 3: catch it tomorrow morning at nine o'clock the Christmas Christmas
43:25
Speaker 3: Conveyor Belt starts. We'll catch you tomorrow. Open that bag.
43:44
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