Latest / Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast / MBA Wire Taps 433—Entrepreneur to Investment Banking. Waive the test or submit 312 GRE. Engineer, passion for dance.

Transcript

MBA Wire Taps 433—Entrepreneur to Investment Banking. Waive the test or submit 312 GRE. Engineer, passion for dance. · Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker A: Foreign. Welcome to the Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast. I'm Graham Richmond and this is your Wiretaps for Monday, July 7, 2025. I'm joined by Alex Brown from Cornwall, England. Alex, happy belated 4th of July. I don't know if you celebrate anymore now that you're living in the uk, but, you know, it's always a big, it was a long weekend in the U.S. yeah.
• 0:37
  Speaker B: Happy Fourth of July. Fantastic. Belated. Yeah, it's actually tomorrow. Right. Because we're recording on.
• 0:44
  Speaker A: Yeah, that's true. But what's, what's going on with NBA admissions news and the wires?
• 0:50
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, we're still not out of the woods yet in terms of, you know, weightless situations and so forth. So I did actually last week I saw a bit more of an uptick, I thought, anyway, on Livewire with some Waitlist activity. So those folks that are still on the wait list, just hang in there. There's still a lot of uncertainty out there, I presume, related to international students and so forth. So. So, yeah, until you're removed from the wait list, it's still not over.
• 1:20
  Speaker A: Yeah. And I did see that uptick that you talked about, and then I saw some Decision wire entries that I wondered if they were brought on by people saying, oh, I don't know where to go now. I' Multiple, multiple offers. And so, yeah, just as a reminder, we love getting those entries. So if you do have, you know, if you have all your final decisions in hand, post the Decision wire, we love to weigh in on those and just to hear, like, what sort of dilemmas people are facing and, you know, scholarship dollars, all that stuff. So, yeah, I think we're not out of the woods at all. And, you know, I was at the GMAC conference last week. A lot of admissions directors, you know, were pretty transparent about the fact that there's there's still, you know, maybe as many as a third of their international students who, you know, know yet if they're going to be able to come because of this whole visa situation and the delays. So there could be further movement is what I'm getting at. And we're getting closer, closer and closer to the start of pre terms and things like that. But there's still some time for movement.
• 2:14
  Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely.
• 2:16
  Speaker A: So another thing I wanted to just tell everyone who's tuned in is, you know, it'd be great if you could to leave us a review or a rating on this show. That's the best way for people to learn about it. I mean, obviously, if you're if you want to, you can, you know, shout from the rooftops or post on LinkedIn that you love the show. That always helps, too. But we're just, you know, need to spread the word. This is that time of year where a new crop of candidates are kind of coming in, joining this community that we love to support. And so if you can spread the word, if you know other applicants or you see them at fairs, just tell them to listen to the show because I think it is a great, you know, we hear over and over again that it's a good resource, but also that folks kind of like having something to tune into once a week as they're traveling through the admissions process. So definitely spread the word if you could.
• 2:58
  Speaker B: Yeah, that would be absolutely brilliant. Then we might have two listeners instead of one.
• 3:01
  Speaker A: Yeah, there you go. Well, you know, I met they were actually, I have to say, at the GMAC conference, even among admissions professionals, people working in schools, there were a few that said they listened. So I think we have more than two Alex now.
• 3:13
  Speaker B: Very good.
• 3:15
  Speaker A: But speaking of tuning in, this Wednesday on July 9th, I'm going to sit down at noon Eastern with admissions directors from Berkeley, Cornell, Dartmouth, Duke and Wharton, and I'm going to grill them on their essay topics for this year and just get all the insider info on what they're looking for, why they ask these questions. So if you're applying to any of those school, you should definitely sign up. You can do so at bit ly mbasa 0725. We do this every Wednesday in the month of July starting next week. So you'll have further editions on the 16th, 23rd and 30th of July with a whole bunch of usually it's, it's in fact, I can tell you it's five schools each week and we've got a whole bunch of great schools in the weeks that follow, too. So please join us for that. Alex I, you know, I noticed one thing that and we're going to talk about this in the in the webinar, but Berkeley for a long time have had this essay question question which is a very it's a great question. It's what makes you feel alive and why. And it's just a short essay where you're supposed to talk about something you do that you really enjoy that is no longer going to be an essay this year. I noticed when I was getting ready to to do this webinar that that's now a video response. And I'm wondering is that going to be the way of the future as the people, as schools try to get at the authentic candidate and not maybe the ChatGPT authored response or something, I don't know, but that, so that was, I just noted that as I was going through and prepping.
• 4:39
  Speaker B: Yeah, no, I think that's really super interesting and definitely a good query to put to Berkeley, Haas in terms of why they made that change.
• 4:48
  Speaker A: Oh yeah, that's, it's that, that's the first question I have for them. So we're going to find out on Wednesday. In other kind of MBA related news, here in Paris or in the suburbs of Paris, HEC have a big overhaul planned for their campus. They're going to spend US$267 million to kind of overhaul their, you know, they have kind of an undergraduate business school, they MBA program, some other offerings as well, executive education. They're basically kind of redoing their campus, it looks like. I saw some of the renderings, the architectural renderings. It looks pretty impressive. So you can read all about that on our website. We also did an article about all the key events to check out in person in July. So Christina on our team, basically she goes school by school and if that school is traveling or doing any kind of in person event, whether it's a fair or just a one off, it's in this calendar. So really useful. I look to see if any of them are coming to Paris. And I think there was only one school that's doing something in Paris. But you know, they're hitting all kinds of places all around the world. So it's, it's a good rundown and we do that every month at the beginning of the month.
• 5:54
  Speaker B: Very good.
• 5:55
  Speaker A: We also did a couple of admissions tips. We had one about how to apply to business school as a younger applicant. And we also continue to run these Mythbusters. So I really liked this week we did two of them. One is over 30s, need not apply to top MBAs. Very relevant. I don't know if you did this on purpose, Alex, but we have a couple of older candidates we're going to talk about in the wiretaps portion of the show this week. And then the other one was successful professionals need not get an mba. So like if you're doing well at work, you don't need an mba. So you can read those two to learn why. Those are patently false statements. But a lot of fun. And you know, again, kudos to you Alex, for coming up with the idea to sort of ask ChatGPT for kind of new content, you know, series and this mythbusters one has been fun.
• 6:44
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, no, very good. And yeah, again, using chat GPT, not to write the articles, but to come up with. No, no concept ideas and stuff. I think that's a really good use case. Yeah. But it's quite interesting. You've got two articles here, one focusing on younger candidates and so forth and what they need to do as well as one focusing on older candidates and whether they should apply. So I imagine if you end up reading both, you'll get a nice spectrum of perspective. But clearly, top schools seek out all candidates as long as they can convince the ADCOM why now is the right time. And that's correct for an early bird, a younger candidate, and that's correct for a more mature candidate.
• 7:33
  Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And again, we'll talk about it a little bit with some of our candidates this week. I think we continue to connect with admissions directors. You know, this is that time of year where we do our admissions director Q and A series. I saw a lot of these folks out at the GMAC conference, but we have these nice articles with interviews on the site. We did one with Katie Radar, who is at unc, Kenan Flagler, she's the admissions director there, and we asked her for a tip on essay writing, and she gave a very simple kind of piece of advice, but I thought it was worth sharing here. She said, my biggest piece of advice, and it sounds simple, is to answer the question. Too often, we reach the end of an essay and still don't have a clear sense of what happened or what the outcome was. We craft our prompts intentionally to gather specific insights and context. We read thousands of essays each year, so it's important to bring your authentic voice to each response. Be clear, be reflective, and help us understand your story. We're truly excited to get to know you. So that was Katie's advice. I think it's good advice. I mean, I really do.
• 8:38
  Speaker B: Sometimes it's good advice. And quite frankly, when I was at Wharton, that was an easy way to deny a candidate. Yeah, right. If you don't answer each element of the prompt, you're in the. You know, you're not in the pile you want to end up being. Yeah.
• 8:53
  Speaker A: And actually, what I. What we tell people to do sometimes is take an essay you've written and give it to a friend and ask them to tell you what the question was after they've read it. So, in any event, we also caught up with Naz Erin Guy. I hope I'm pronouncing that right. She is the director of admissions at University of Florida, the Warrington College of Business. They have a very small MBA program. It's like 35 students each year, super intimate. It's like one cohort, basically. And we asked her about their interview process. We just say, can you tell us a little bit about how it works? And, you know, who conducts the interviews, et cetera. And I'm sharing this because they have a kind of unusual process, which I think speaks to the small kind of size. But she says that they do other interviews via Zoom. They're one hour long, and they're split between the admissions team and one of their career career services officers. Okay. And she said that an applicant spends the first portion of the meeting with either her or someone on the admissions team talking about why they're interested in the mba, professional and personal goals. And she says, you know, that they ask them questions to provide to shed light on how well a candidate works in groups and teams. Then she says, we also ask situational questions on topics about leadership, conflict resolution, stress management. But then the second portion of the interview covers topics related to career objectives, what type of companies and roles the candidate's interested in. We also ask questions that provide that shed light on the coachability and grit that the student possesses. So I just thought I would share her remarks there because it's interesting. I don't know of a school that does it that way, where you've got kind of a career services person and an admissions person taking part in that interview.
• 10:33
  Speaker B: I think it's a really interesting model and it makes a lot of sense. Right, because you don't want to obviously admit a candidate who sounds wonderful, but it turns out that their career plan is not something they can execute on at that university. So, yeah, I think this makes quite a lot of sense, and especially for a program that's more intimate, a little bit smaller, smaller, etc. Etc. They absolutely want to make sure they get it right in terms of bringing in the right candidate for their program.
• 11:08
  Speaker A: Yeah, totally. Could not agree more. Anyway, I just thought it was really interesting. So, yeah, it was great to catch up with both Naz and Katie at the GMAT conference last week. Little did they know we were going to talk about them on the show this week. We also caught up with. I think we're kind of coming to an end on this, but we're still running some of those alumni profiles as part of our Real Humans alumni series. So we caught up with Faye, who's a Yale grad from the MBA program, back in 23. She's currently a program manager at Google. She's 34 now from Brooklyn, New York originally. And she went to Wesleyan University in Connecticut, where she studied American politics and French studies. She worked for the New York City Department of Education for about six years prior to going off to business school. So kind of a non traditional candidate. And we asked her, well, why did you go to Yale? What led you to make the decision to attend there? And she said, first, I was attracted to the dual mission of Yale som developing leaders for business and society. My quote, society background is important to me. And I wanted to attend a school that would A, value my experience, B, attract students who share my values, all while C, pushing me beyond my comfort zone. Second, New Haven also appealed to me. I knew I wanted a small city where most students would not have an existing network which provides a forcing function to build community. Finally, I knew I wanted to return to New York City after graduation. So I thought that staying on the east coast would make sense. So that's Faye's kind of rationale for heading off to Yale, and I thought it was just really good to see how she thought that through.
• 12:50
  Speaker B: Yeah, no, I think that's really interesting. The second point. I mean, we even make that second point for Wharton. Right. I mean, basically everybody comes to Wharton rather than already having existing networks in. In Philadelphia. But. But this. I've never heard that term forcing function.
• 13:07
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 13:07
  Speaker B: So that's going into my vocabulary. I love it.
• 13:10
  Speaker A: Yeah, I liked it. Yeah. So in any event, very good stuff. I'm sure that Yale could, you know, read that and think, hey, this is a nice little marketing pitch for our program. But in any event. Yeah. So the only other thing I wanted to mention is that speaking of, like, you know, my interactions with schools at the conference, and I'm thinking back even to our MBA fair, we've had a lot of touch points with ADM directors, and I've been out there recording bits of audio. And so starting actually this week, we're going to release audio from the NBA fair in Boston. We did some panels there. We had admissions directors from, you know, Dartmouth, Harvard, Duke, mit, ucla, Yale. There were a handful of others. Columbia, others are escaping right now. But anyway, we. We connected with a lot of them as we did these panels about, like, what is an mba? We did two different panels on admissions tips. And Dennis, our producer engineer extraordinaire, has worked these up into episodes, like mini episodes of the show. So those are going to air starting this week. And then while I was in Kansas City at the gmac conference. I kind of hung out with a lot of admissions directors and convinced some of them to sort of step. Step into a little foyer and answer a question that you helped me develop, Alex. And the question was, why is the MBA a valuable degree in tumultuous times, you know, times of economic uncertainty, geopolitical uncertainty, and even technological upheaval? So we'll get those clips together. We're still trying to figure out how we want to work them in, whether they'll be part of this show, you know, the kind of wiretap show, or maybe just a standalone episode about the value of an mba, but that's forthcoming, too, so I'm really looking forward to that.
• 14:46
  Speaker B: No, absolutely. Really terrific content coming.
• 14:49
  Speaker A: Yeah. And let's see. I think that's all I had. Obviously, if people want to write to us, you can write to infoearadmit.com, use the subject line wiretaps. Otherwise, Alex, I'm ready to talk about the candidates that you picked out for this week.
• 15:01
  Speaker B: Yeah, let's kick off.
• 15:02
  Speaker A: All right, so this is WireTaps candidate number one. Our first candidate this week has five schools on the target list. They want to start in the fall of 26. The schools that they're looking at are Columbia, Harvard, Kellogg, Chicago, and Wharton. They're this person's answer entrepreneur. They actually founded a company in the E commerce space, and they're looking to use business school to make a pretty substantial pivot into investment banking. So they mentioned Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan Chase, and some others as potential targets. Post MBA, they have a whopping 335 on the GRE and a 3.8 undergraduate GPA. So very strong numbers. They've been working, working for eight years now. And they indicate in their note to us that they're trying to make this career transition from running their own E commerce business to corporate finance or investment banking. They think that an MBA is going to give them, you know, the technical foundation and the recruiting path to be able to do that. Since they're now eight years out from undergrad, they definitely want to go to business school now. They feel like their business has hit sort of a, you know, an inflection point, they say, and they're ready to make a career change. So, Alex, what do you make of this? It's kind of unusual to see someone going from entrepreneurship into investment banking. Slightly older candidate, but stellar numbers. So what's your take here?
• 16:27
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, to your point, this is quite an unorthodox sort of plan, getting the mba, given the plan Makes perfect sense. I'm not dismissing that. I mean I think the MBA is a natural transition for a candidate like this. But yeah, a apparently super successful entrepreneur running a viable E commerce business over a good period of time, wanting to switch to the finance side of business effectively. Right. And learn and doing that by getting the mba, doing that hardcore investment banking and then moving on from there. I'd really like to get a bit more of a clearer sense of their long term plan and goal post investment banking. I think that would be help add some clarity. Obviously another key component will be the success of this E commerce business that they've run for a significant period of time and some of the bumps along the road and what they've learned from those bumps, etc. Etc. So that could really help, you know, in terms of make make for. For a very interesting candidacy. Right. So they're impacting growth not just themselves but the business more generally and so forth. That would be very good. One of the things that they're going to have to consider is their choice of recommenders. Yes, I think as an entrepreneur this is really, really important. Right. So whether they've got a co founder, I believe they're planning to use a co founder as a recommender and they mentioned that they were going to use an employee as a second recommender who reported into them and I'm just not sure that that would be the right choice. Graham, maybe they to look for a mentor or an advisor or someone that's sort of provided service to the business that has has interaction with them over a long period of time. But the choice recommenders will be important. As you said, their numbers are outstanding. So if, if that's married to a, you know, a reasonably successful e commerce business etc. Etc. Then yeah, they're targeting M7 but that they, they realistically probably should be targeting some of the very top. I know before we came on air you mentioned that maybe they need to take a closer look at Stern and Cornell and I know your rationale for that was well, they're just great places to transition into investment banking.
• 19:01
  Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. So I think, you know, you're. I'm glad you brought up the recommendations question because I think it's an important one. I also do. Yeah, I feel like it is a big pivot that they're trying to make. I think it's doable but I would maybe cast a slightly wider net and look at the Cornells and Sterns of the world for that express reason that they can, you know, give you a pathway into banking. I, yeah, I worry that they don't have their head in the right place with the recs yet. You know, picking a co founder in of itself could be controversial because they're really a peer. And then if the second rec comes from an employee, then neither rec is really providing what the schools are looking for, which is an objective senior point of view. I recognize as an entrepreneur that's really challenging. But most entrepreneurs will go to, you know, if they raised funds, then someone who invested in the firm or if they have a big client who's, you know, objective and can give a kind of assessment. Ideally, you know, you're picking someone at a client who's older than you and very senior. Or another thing as you, I think suggested earlier here is you go and you look at someone that's provided service, whether it's your firm's lawyer or accountant, someone again ideally older than you, more seasoned, who can and comment critically on your ability to lead an organization. So I would strongly encourage them to think about those racks and I think if they went to the schools, the schools would tell them exactly the same thing. So that's important. The other thing they did share, shed some light on is that they are active outside of work. They play rec sports like basketball. It's unclear if they have any sort of concrete outside activities or concerted sort of involvement in something, but that would be good to know as well. Again, some of these things are minor, but they make the difference between like you're saying an M7 candidacy and maybe something a little further afield. So I encourage them to really flesh it out. And I think you were also pressuring them a little bit to think about what's the long term plan. And they seem to have that when you push them. They gave us a little bit more information about private equity and stuff. So. Yeah, so there's a lot to think about here. I love the numbers. I mean this is a strong candidate, but they are older and they're trying to make a big pivot and, and so they need to be careful, especially on the wrecks.
• 21:12
  Speaker B: You called it a triple jump, Graham. What do you mean by that? Well, you didn't call it on air when we were preparing.
• 21:18
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So actually I guess technically it might only be a double because I don't think they're changing geography. We don't, I don't know if we know exactly where they are right now, but if they're in New York and they want to stay in New York, then they're not moving geography. But they're certainly moving industry and function. So normally, yeah, the triple jump would be all three but yeah, it's, it's a big jump no matter how you slice it. And I mean there is a little part of me wondering like, do the banks like someone who's 30 plus years old when they know that these are kind of grueling jobs and maybe they want to, you know, give them to the younger candidates who they can work to the bone. So that, that is another issue. That, that's why they need to come in with a really, you know, clear eyed view on what they want and go after it.
• 21:58
  Speaker B: Yeah, very good.
• 22:00
  Speaker A: All right. I want to thank them for sharing their profile and hopefully some of this advice helps them to find success. Let's move on and talk about WireTaps. Candidate number two. So our second candidate this week has six schools on the target list and is also hoping to start in the fall of 26. They've got Kellogg, Booth, Foster, UCLA Anderson, USC Marshall and UT Austin McCombs on the list. They have four and a half years work experience as a big four tax consultant and also four years at an HR tech startup. That's their current role where they manage global mobility and immigration operations. So they have over eight years of experience post mba. They're still sort of trying to figure it out but they, you know, they do mention tech or commercial banking. They also just indicated they're not really sure they have a 312 on the GRE. They have a 3.84 undergraduate GPA, say 8 1/2 years as I said, of work experience. They're located in Seattle and they're thinking that their main target is Foster at University of Washington. But they will also consider several other high reach schools. And some of this they say depends on a retake of the GRE that they have planned. They're thinking though that they're going to apply to Foster in round one or two and they're wondering what they're to trying chances would be if they were to apply without a GRE score. And they say that they took it a few months ago and have that 312. But they're re, they're currently studying and they're hoping to retake next month. And they're just sort of wondering like what happens if they don't hit the mark. Like they're trying to get 320 plus but if they don't they're wondering is there like a cutoff where you'd say you know what, just apply without the score. They also did share that. They're male, 31 one domestic US candidate of middle Eastern descent, lower income upbringing. They went to undergrad at DePaul and majored in finance and accounting. They did graduate magna cum laude, so pretty good undergraduate numbers. And they did have a CPA license when they were working in the big four. That's obviously since expired. But I think they're mentioning that because of the, that fact. Fact that if you don't have a GRE or GMAT score, you might need to demonstrate, you know, kind of abilities elsewhere. So what's your take here Alex?
• 24:24
  Speaker B: Yeah, I, I wouldn't question this candidate's ability is a 384GPA and the type of work experience they have seems, you know, pretty strong. Right? Seems strong. So, but, but the 312 GRE is definitely hurts their overall profile. So get the retake done and hopefully the retake then correlates more with a 384 GPA. I get that GRE into those 320s where it would appear to belong and so forth. The other thing that I'm a little concerned with is this sort of wishy washy sort of goal stuff again, older candidates. So I'm sure this, you know, one of our admissions tips this week when talking about the older candidates, one of the things that they'll talk about is if you're an older candidate, you really should have a better developed plan and so forth. And that why now? Why mba? Really well developed. So I'm a bit concerned that that might signal to ADCOM that, you know, maybe they're getting an MBA to reinvent themselves, don't really know what they're doing doing. So they don't want to come across like that at all. They want to come across as someone that has a really well forward thinking plan and the NBA is a great stepping stone now in their career to pursue that plan. So really ratchet up the goals and try to get this GRE score to correlate better with the, with, with the gpa. But, but Graham, the one, the reason why I picked this candidate other, other than sort of all the other stuff we talked about is this idea of waiving the GRE versus representing the GRE score and what are the, what are the risks to both approaches? So obviously if they move this GRE score up a little bit and let's say they hit that sort of 320 and so forth, we would argue that it makes more sense to present it. And in complement with the gpa, they're offering more Data points to the adcom. So that's very good. And quite frankly, some of the schools on their target list would require the test score anyway. Right. So I assume Kellogg and Booth, for example. So the risks to waiving are going to limit your school choices and providing less data points. Right. So there is a risk to that approach. But I assume more and more candidates are looking at potentially waiving if they don't have the median test score. So schools have allowed this sort of situation to develop. Right?
• 27:27
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. It's really. I mean, so I think for Foster, where I, you know, they, they allow for waivers, I. I think, you know, this person could probably make a pretty strong case. I mean, they had stellar gpa, they worked at a big four. They were, you know, had a CPA license. So they, they tick a lot of those boxes that you might be worried about. It's not like they were an art history major working, you know, in. In the arts world or something. Right. So they, they know, they, they tick some of these boxes and could probably get away with it. But as you correctly point out, some of the other schools on their list that require the test, it's going harder, I think. You know, clearly, we, we're not. When we get into things like money, scholarships, like, sometimes it's better to have a score, especially if the score is high. And, and part of me feels like, wait, this person's, you know, 3, 8, 4 GPA. They're clearly very smart. They studied finance and accounting. I mean, they should be able to do really well on the GRE if they, you know, do take a prep course, whatever they need to do. So I certainly want to make sure that they're, like, putting their best foot forward, as you like to say. It's like, you know, only apply with your best self. And so that, and as you. And, you know, we talked about this, I think, in a recent episode about how even admissions directors will say, yeah, we allow you to waive, but, you know, if you waive, you're. You're depriving us of another data point. So that's the issue here. And, yeah, and as you said earlier, I cannot emphasize enough. They need to figure out their career plan because there's nothing worse than an older candidate coming into a program who doesn't know what they want. I mean, you know, they say, oh, might be tech, maybe corporate finance or maybe a leadership development program, and they need to figure out what they want to do. So, yeah, my advice to them is, for now, buckle down, do your prep course, get the Test done again. And hopefully you hit that mark, 320 plus, and can be competitive with these other numbers across the board at your schools. And yeah, if it's a disaster and you don't get it up above 315, then maybe you pivot to a plan B and you focus on Foster with your. Wait, you know, with a waiver or something. But it's. It's tricky. I mean, there are some other schools on the list, I think that would allow them to waive, so they could continue to keep those in play as well. But, yeah, it's. It's. This is not an easy thing. And the way that. You're right, the schools have kind of created this issue a little bit. Yeah.
• 29:41
  Speaker B: Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, basically we're seeing median test scores going up. Why is that? Because those at the lower end of the range are no longer taking the test. Yeah, it's like, therefore your medium will slide up. So it looks good on the admissions staff.
• 29:56
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 29:57
  Speaker B: And maybe. Maybe. Graham, what we need to do is write an admissions tip. Should I waive the GMAT or should I waive the test?
• 30:04
  Speaker A: Yeah, we have a tip, because I don't. We have one that's about that a little bit, I think, but we can go back and look at it. Yeah, there you.
• 30:09
  Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
• 30:10
  Speaker A: But it's. It is interesting. I mean, I think not only are the averages going up for the gmat, I would say, but I think what also happened is you have the GRE averages not really matching up with the GMAT averages. So there's a lot of kind of funny stuff happening with these tests, and it's unfortunate. But anyway, I do want to thank this person for sharing their profile. My advice to them, as I say, is take the test again, do as well as you possibly can and get your goals. Develop a plan. You don't need to stick to it. Everyone, you know, pivots and modifies when they get into business school. That's very common. But have a plan for the admissions process when it comes to your goals that you can stick to while you're.
• 30:45
  Speaker B: Applying, that you're quite interested in too, I would add.
• 30:49
  Speaker A: Yes, it always makes it better. Yes, for sure.
• 30:51
  Speaker B: Don't. Don't just come up with one that just seems logical. Find something that you can get your. Yourself behind and be passionate about, etc.
• 31:00
  Speaker A: Yeah, totally. All right, I want to thank them for their post. Let's move on and talk about wiretaps. Candidate number three. So our third candidate this week is a little bit younger, so so just four years of work experience instead of eight plus like we had with the first two. They have eight schools on their target list and I'm just gonna say it's the M7 plus UVA Darden. So they're applying to very top schools. They wanna start in the fall of 26. Like our other two candidates this week they've been working as a software engineer. That's their pre MBA career and they're thinking about either entrepreneurship, technology or maybe even venture capital after business school. They, they have a 3.94 undergraduate GPA. They are located in the US they have a 710 on the GMAT. So that's the older version of the test before they changed it up. And so that's why it ends in a zero and not a five. It's also a score 710. That's a little below the average at the schools that they're applying to, even in some cases by 20 or 30 points. They do mention that they would have four years of experience by the time they matriculate. So right now they're really just at three. And they've been had one promotion. It looks like they're a subject matter, subject matter expert in a few different areas. They've had some internal recognition at their firm and again they're in, they're a software engineer. They said, they said they should have a strong recommendation from their company. They do a bunch of extracurricular activities. The one that jumped out at me and I think you as well is it looks like they do quite a bit of coaching, captaining and managing at a cultural dance academy. They've been doing this for many years and they first were a student, then a dancer and then a captain. And so they're really active in this domain and I think it's an interesting one that you'll, you'll comment on. Alex. They did say they went to a top 30 university, top five public, and they held positions while they were an undergraduate as well. So they were active I guess is the main message there. And they had a high gpa as I pointed out earlier. They indicate they're going to do the best they can on the essays and they're hoping that that offsets their GMAT score. They may attempt to retake the test in early August, but they want us to consider the 710 as their highest score as we kind of assess things. So what do you think of this, Alex?
• 33:17
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean again you pointed this out before we came on Air. A710 GMAT is an old, older test score so they've had some time to potentially retake and again in the back of the ADCOM's mind that's what they may be thinking. So I would recommend that if they can to do that retake in August as they consider that as a potential thing to do. And as you pointed out, just make sure there's real clarity in the goal focus. So that will always improve an overall profile if we've got a really good forward thinking plan, why MBA, etc. So they've had four years of experience, they should have thought long and hard about where they want to be in the future and so forth. So you know, I think some of the things that they talk about make a lot of sense but let's make it a cogent sort of pathway that's ambitious as well as realistic as well as impact impactful and so forth. As you pointed out. I love the sort of the software engineering on the one side and the dance school impact on the other side. Right. So it's showing some real breadth there. And as a software engineer it appears that they're going to be able to show really good impact at work supported by strong recommendations and they have a 394GPA as an engineer. So that's ridiculous in a good sense. Right. So that's absolutely brilliant. So, so, so you know there's, there's a lot to like here I think overall and you know, if they can bump that GMAT score just up a little bit, freshen the score a little bit, have some good goal focus, make that ymba really make a lot of sense. I got to say that I, I like this candidacy gr.
• 35:22
  Speaker A: Yeah. So I'm going to, just to play devil's advocate. Like the, the downside for me is software engineer. So the dance part's cool. Right. But software engineer in of itself is a common profile that we see in the pool. You know there are a lot of like Indian software engineers who apply to business school and the GMAT score is low. Right. 7:10. So and it's older like you said. So for me I worry about them getting put into this bucket of like overrepresented and lower score which could be bad. Right. Whereas the GPA is stellar. Right. So if this person had a 750 on the GMAT or whatever the equivalent is on the current test, probably like a 705 or you know, whatever it would be 695, that, that would really change the way I look at this. And I, I did just from reading, I kind of wondered, like, they didn't say. They say they live in the US and I presume they went to school in the US for undergrad because they didn't say otherwise. But I sort of wondered like, where's this person from? Like, did they, you know, did they immigrate from. Maybe they're from India or from a market that's overrepresented originally, so they didn't comment on that. Or maybe they're just, you know, you know, Joe white guy or gal in the US I have no idea. But those pieces do kind of come into play when it comes to whether or not they're going to be viewed as overrepresented or underrepresented. And so that's where the test scores start. Starts to hurt. You know, I just, I would love to have a higher test score here and particularly because they've had time to like work on it, like you pointed out, I mean, that, that 710 is probably from at least two years ago. So I would love for them to take the test again, which it sounds like they're going to do, hit it out of the park and then fine, I'm fine with this list of target schools, et cetera. If they are going into the process with the 710 and this profile, I might, you know, not just look at M7 plus dart and I might cast a slightly wider net. So that's why where this all comes into play. Play.
• 37:13
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. No, I think that's a good point. When you cast a wider net, maybe like Ross or one or two others from that top 16 would come into play.
• 37:23
  Speaker A: I agree. Yeah. So.
• 37:25
  Speaker B: And if, if they are potentially overrepresented, then they've got to think about that for the first round. Right. To overcome the sort of over representation. So, so, so yeah, they got to maybe pivot a little bit on that school selection quite quickly.
• 37:42
  Speaker A: Yeah. And I guess, I mean, this is a broader conversation we can have another time. But, you know, I know we're now in an era where a lot of these things are not supposed to be taken into account. You know, ethnicity, you know, it's meant to be really blind. But I still think that it's. It does play a role because they're trying to mix together a class that's diverse and, you know, at the margins, a lot of these candidates, there are many more qualified candidates than there are spots for these classes. So schools still have a bit of leeway to kind of mix things the way they want. So in any event, just something to think about. I do want to thank them for sharing their profile and wish them the best. Best of luck as they head off to retake the test. Alex, thanks for picking all of these out. I think we tackled a number of interesting subjects today with these three candidates across the board, whether it's waivers or who to get to write your letters, or how to handle an older candidacy, etc. So thanks a lot for, as always, picking out some great candidates to discuss.
• 38:30
  Speaker B: Very good. Stay safe everyone. Take care. Sam.