Latest / 12 Months to Marathon / Episode 115- Why Madhu Ran a Marathon in Her Mum’s Saree - And Broke a World Record

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Episode 115- Why Madhu Ran a Marathon in Her Mum’s Saree - And Broke a World Record · 12 Months to Marathon

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_03: Hello and welcome to the 12 months to Marathon Podcast with me, John Hill, the running podcast for the over 35s with Marathon Dreams, episode 115.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_03: I'm joined by another very special guest today.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_03: I'm joined by Madhu Jenna.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_03: Madhu, how are you today?
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very well, thank you.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: How are you?
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_03: I'm very well, thank you for asking.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_03: Appreciate you coming on and taking the time to talk to me.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_03: So uh Mad is also known as the Small Runner on Instagram.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and we've got quite the running CV to go through here.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_03: So I'll let Madu sort of talk through her story.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_03: But on a headline level, so Madhu's completed over 40 marathons.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_03: She's qualified for Boston seven times, as far as I'm aware.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_03: Uh Marathon Personal Best of 327, including a very interesting um world record on top of that as well, which we really want to talk about.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and then obviously she's done a couple of ultras as well, 50 and 100K.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_03: Um, that world record, uh, I'll let you talk about that, is where you broke the world record for running a marathon in a sari, as far as aware, and that's the Guinness World Record uh as it currently stands.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you're also a mother of two and a send teacher, uh, and you've managed to fit all this into uh your life as well as doing all this running, which is quite impressive.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_03: So, first question for me before we get anywhere near any of the amazing achievements that you've done.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_03: So, before running, who was Madhu and how did running come into your life?
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I was living in Dubai at the time.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I was working in banking actually, I wasn't a teacher.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I had just had my first child.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I didn't have the family support in Dubai, and I didn't really know much about like in England, you get the support from um the midwives and like people coming in, kind of giving you um like support in terms of feeding the baby.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't have any of that in Dubai.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I was starting to go a bit um, as much as I love my son, I was going a bit crazy.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I thought, okay, I needed to kind of just get out of the house.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: So um kind of hired a babysitter, got to know her well, and thought, okay, she's gonna come in the morning, I'm gonna head out for about 5k.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I joined a running group in Dubai.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, 2008.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and then that was it.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: That day they ran 16 kilometers and I was aching, and I was just like, oh my god, like, you know, I'm I'm here as a new mother, I'm not here to train for a marathon.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: But they're like, no, no, now you're gonna train for Dubai Marathon with us.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: But I absolutely loved it.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: There was something very liberating about running.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: And it just, I think I went back and I appreciated my son much more, who was four months old then.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, actually, I want to do this every single weekend.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: So during the week, I'd do short little runs on the treadmill with him asleep next to me.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: And then during on our our weekends were Friday um and Saturday in Dubai, on a Friday morning, I'd head out with my group.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I did end up increasing it and doing my first marathon when he was seven months old in January 2008.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: And that was it.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: I was hooked.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, brilliant.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_03: So you'll so just to clarify on that, your first so your first run with this group was 16k off the bat.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_03: That was that was the yes straight.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, cool.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_03: And what was it?
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_03: Um I think I get I guess the question I want to ask here is what was it that running was giving you at that part of your life that you were potentially looking for?
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was just getting out, getting that freedom.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: It was, I think, the mental health aspect.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if I was I I mean, I was never clinically diagnosed with postnatal depression, but I did feel that I was getting irritated and I just felt that mentally just helped me get out of the house and not only meet other people, other runners, but just like while I was running, I felt like it was just such a wonderful feeling running that I can't even describe still now.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, absolutely.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's very odd.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_03: It's very odd.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I I understand that.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_03: So so you go out for the 16k and was because obviously a lot of people sometimes people listen to this and they'll they'll be like in that part of life where they're perhaps thinking about going out where they've just gone out, and I think that's quite you know, we'll all agree 16k straight off the bat is quite a lot.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_03: So did was that a particular pace?
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_03: Was the different paces in the group?
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_03: Was it all together?
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_03: How did that how was that first run set up?
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: So it was 18 years ago.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't have a watch, so I didn't know anything about pace.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: I do remember like being getting left behind and then trying to run a bit faster because I was in the middle of Dubai and I didn't really know where we were.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's definitely not normal to run, like I would say, do not even attempt it.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: I think I was 29 years old.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: It was actually for my 29th birthday.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it was mentally just and it's risky because you could get I could have got injured, but I think I just needed to finish it because everyone else was finishing it.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, uh the whole week I did absolutely ache because my body wasn't used to it.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: So definitely, Ned, don't like start slowly and build it up to them.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_03: Now, the um when they sort of um sort of you I'll use the expression sort of cajoled you into doing the the marathon, was that was that something that how did that fit for you at that point?
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_03: Because obviously that's a big, a big, big deal.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_03: So was that first session?
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_03: Was it after a few sessions?
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_03: When did we when did we get into a marathon conversation and ended up doing one three months later?
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um so the October I was just like definitely not.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a new mother, just kind of like built, like just coming here for a bit of me time.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: And then I ran my first half in uh December, in that December that year, so two months later.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: And like, I don't know if it was just the age or like taking care of a child or pregnancy just made me a lot stronger.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: But I ran it in one hour and 46 minutes, and I didn't realize now I can't do that time, and I'm like, you know, I've been running for eight years.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: But um, I don't after running 21k, I thought actually I think I can push.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what kind of time I'd get, but I can do 42.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that was a bit of a shock because actually, when people think it's half the distance, it's not really, it's like the second half is like exponentially harder than the first one.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_03: I add 10% on, yeah, as the old expression goes.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_03: So I guess it's obviously it's a tricky question because obviously hindsight's a wonderful thing.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_03: But when you did that, that first marathon, what was your time on your first one out of interest?
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: Three hours, 49 minutes.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_03: Three forty-nine on your first one.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, that's good for a first one.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_03: So did you would you have had any sort of inkling that what was going to happen after that?
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely not.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I didn't even know what to aim for because I didn't have I didn't have a watch at the time.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't have energy gels.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: So it was they did send out Lucasaid, but I didn't pace myself because I didn't really know what pacing was.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: The only goal I had, and probably too much information, is I needed to feed my baby at the end.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'd expressed milk and I needed to finish him.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I was kind of in pain, and I was like, I need to just get to the finish line.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the only thing that was going through my head.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: I never knew if I would do it again or like where it leaves from there.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_03: So what kept bringing you back to marathon, particularly in that distance?
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think I when I finished it, it was that sense of accomplishment that I have run 42 kilometers.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: This is this is this is fun.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: This is really great.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: I felt I don't think I've ever felt that proud of myself before, um, in it to that extent that I have completed a marathon.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: And like even now I look back and I was like, that's a really good time, but I don't think I even I didn't appreciate the time as much, but I appreciated the distance.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: And um I kind of decided that I wanted to keep running and yeah, and just see if I could work on my pace a bit.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I went on and the following year ran my first ultra, which again I absolutely loved.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_03: Uh how and how so in terms of the so that was the year after your first marathon, how far was the ultra?
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: So it was basically it was five marathons over five consecutive days.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um so that was like 210, but it was over five days.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I got the time to rest in the evenings, yeah.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: And was that like um a charity event or was that just a it was a it was a it was a play, it was um a multi-day event organized by a company in India.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: I had not seen um parts of Rajasthan in India, and I thought, oh, that'd be a white, nice way to kind of run it.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then but also um because I had an 18-month-old son then, the nice thing about this run was like you weren't camping, you were staying in like heritage hotels in the night.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I thought, well, it'll be comfortable for my husband and my son to to be in this hotel while I do the run and then meet them at certain points.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: So it was, I'd say it like it was comfortable, but I had to train my body to be able to run marathon after marathon for five consecutive days.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, of course, yeah, of course.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_03: And when we get to sort of marathon number round number 40 from number one, how does how does number 40 feel compared to number one in terms of how you feel about doing it?
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm very comfortable that I can run the pace.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: The only difference is like I turn 47 next month, right?
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: And it is like it's significantly harder.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: So in my 30s, I went through a phase where I was getting my PBs, I felt okay, I can push my pace a bit more.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas now I feel, yes, I'm comfortable with the distance, but it's like that time can vary from like the three hour 45 minutes to up to four hour 45 if I'm not well trained.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like just because with hormonal changes now, there is a big difference.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely, yeah, absolutely.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_03: So, what I suppose, what does 46-year-old Madhu do differently to the 29-year-old Madhu who did a first one?
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_03: What's your what's your what are the main differences?
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um recovery is so important.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I give myself, if I finished a marathon, give yourself that time to recover, getting enough sleep.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: I don't drink alcohol anymore only because I just can't like have reached an age where it's so hard to metabolise.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: I do wake up with hangovers and I feel like, and then that really upsets me because then I can't run.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: I strength train because I feel like you get to an age where if I don't strength train, then the aches and pains um really kind of like kick in, which I never did in my 30s.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: And um nutrition, I would say like I could get away with eating junk and then running a marathon the next day or something.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas I think that is so important, getting your nutrition right, getting enough carbs, protein.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_03: What does your so what does it say, for example, you're not training for anything?
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_03: What does your typical weeks look like now with with with strength with running?
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_03: What was a typical week look like for you?
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I try to strength train.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'd say, I mean, I uh ideally I'd like to do it three times a week.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't fit in.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I do it twice a week.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'll probably run three or four times a week.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: So one will be on the weekend, it'll be a longer run, anything between 20 to 30k, depending on how I'm feeling.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, with now, just because I'm back at school and it's darker, like it's dark in the mornings, I'll run in the tr on the treadmill a couple of times.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: And um, one will be like a very easy run, and one where I'll try to push the pace a bit more.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: An interval kind of session, yeah.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so you so it's yeah, so you got a you've got a good mix going on.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_03: And when you traditionally trying for a marathon, do you how does it look then?
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_03: Do you follow a specific plan?
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_03: Do you have a coach?
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_03: What does that look like?
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: No, I mean, I've I had a coach a few years ago, but I feel because I um I'm single parenting and I've got like two boys at one.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: My older son just started uni and then I've got the other one at home.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's really hard to follow a specific plan.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I kind of know in my head what I need to do one interval session, one tempo session, and long run.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I try to get a mix of that in and then try to get the strength training in when I can.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: But I find it really stressful to then stick to a particular plan.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I have to do this today.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: And because if I don't, then I get really disappointed with myself.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, I just kind of even when I'm training for a marathon, just kind of listen to my body and do it accordingly.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, of course.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, okay, good, that's good.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_03: And in terms of your strength, is that did you did you go to a gym to do that?
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_03: Do you do that at home?
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: I do it at home, so I've got all my weights and um yeah, kettle bells and things.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a lot of like I'll do a leg workout day and then an upper body day, like sorry, a full work body workout day, just kind of making sure the core and everything is stabilized.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, good, very good.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_03: So in terms of the so you've qualified for Boston seven times and your personal best is three is 327, so which is which is a you know a fantastic CV there.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_03: Where where did the desire to get faster come from?
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_03: So instead of just doing them, where did the desire to get quicker come from?
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: So after my first marathon halfway through 2008, we'd moved to Egypt with my husband's job.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I met a running group there.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: And um, after running that five marathons in five days, I thought I looked up, I didn't know what Boston was, and I thought, oh, do you know what?
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like I did a 320 nine for my first one.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: I wonder if I could improve on that and you know qualify.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: But after that, then I had my second son, so it was a bit more of a wait.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: And then um, and then I did, yeah, so it was um 2013 that I just thought, okay, let me really try to work on my speed, and um, yeah, qualified in January 2013.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: And and then after that, because I was when I was living and I had a really good running group, I was like, okay, let me let me keep running marathons and see if I can keep qualifying.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I didn't really, I didn't know much about when I say I I worked on my speed, I'd really just try to go out fast every time.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: There wasn't that much information on the internet at the time, so I didn't know what internet training and stuff was.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but I would just work on like I said, okay, let me try to get a bit faster.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um the last time I did qualify was actually I moved back to England in 2017, and and that's when because my husband stayed abroad and he was what he's still working there and I'm here.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: That was actually the last time I managed to qualify because I think everything just took over, having small kids, and um I did my teacher training, and I didn't realize I never really appreciated how different my life would be being back in England.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: So it's yeah, it kind of that's when it just the the times just became much slower after that.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_03: Right, okay.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_03: And what do you think made the biggest difference to your marathon performance when you were improving?
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think I was younger, but also it was um having a good running group and that support with you, okay, having like a good running partner.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: But I think I did a lot more like tempo runs.
• 14:03
  unknown: Okay.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: My body got used to kind of doing the shorter tempo runs.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I'd always run with someone who was a lot faster and they would be pushing me.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I was just like, okay, I need to keep up.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that made a massive difference, which I probably don't do as much now.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so you don't do as many sort of tempo and and fast passes now.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, okay.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_03: Well, that's it's tricky, isn't it, when you get a little bit older?
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, oh yeah, trying to maintain, you can still do those type of workouts, but the body's a little bit um the body's a little bit less forgiving.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_03: So do you think what what role do you think sort of experience played in all of that?
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I think it played a massive like role in the sense that I like after you've done a certain number of marathons, you know your body quite well.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think then I kind of knew how much more I could push myself, how much like like every like I knew exactly what kind of time I would be aiming for at each marathon, and I think that only comes with experience.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_03: Have you had ever had any breaks from running that haven't been injury related, or have you stayed quite consistent over the years you've been doing it?
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: No, I've stayed consistent.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think the only times I've taken breaks is a couple of injuries, yeah.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_03: And you think that's that's played a part in your oh, definitely, yeah.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't think uh yeah, apart from that like that one that when I was pregnant with my second son, I don't think I've had a break.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_03: So after sort of years of of marathon experience and race experience and ultras and everything else, and obviously the qualifying standards and times, which is great, you started doing the marathons in the sari.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_03: Where did that come from?
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: So when I lived in Egypt, I had quite a few friends who would say, Oh, you know, it's okay for you, but you know, we wear a hijab.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: And at that time you didn't have the dry fit hijab, so they would just, you know, have and I was just like, Yeah, but if you still want to run, you can still run.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: And then I had the same conversations with people in India going, you know, well, we have to wear like saris and stuff.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then I thought, well, uh let me see if I can run a full marathon in Asari.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: So the first time I did it was um in Manchester Marathon in 2023, and it was like I hadn't tried running an Asari before, so I didn't even know if I'd be able to complete it.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: And that was quite interesting experience because I was kind of like, I kept lifting up my sari.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: But then after that, and like that became quite like it hit the headlines in India and everything.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: But then people were like, well, it took her four hours, 50 minutes, let you know, you can't done do a fast one.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: So then after that, I thought, well, let's see if I can get, and I looked up what the Guinness Book of World Record was and I said, let's see if I can beat that.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, and I actually even this year wasn't sure if I could because I was like, I don't even know if because it was after a year that I even ran a sub-four hour marathon.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: So to do it in a sari, I was just like, that's like that's a big thing.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it was to show people of all ethnic backgrounds, and I'm not saying go run in a sari, I'm saying it doesn't matter what you run in, you know, it's your choice.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: You can wear any attire and you can and you can still run pretty, you know, a decent pace.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_03: And that was my next question.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_03: Funny enough.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_03: So what did I suppose what did wear in the sari to do that represent to you?
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: It was like it was nice to showcase my culture, and you know, so the saris I run in are hand loom saris that are made in like by by weavers in India.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: And they take about a month to make one sari.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so I wanted to kind of showcase that, but it's specifically from the state of India that I come my parents come from.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like a lot of like, yeah, um, value to me.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I wanted to stick to running in that specific sari, but it was also like it was a nice way to showcase my culture and heritage to the people of Manchester.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, of course, yeah.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_03: And I guess the from a fee, so from a female standpoint, did you have any idea of how much that would resonate with women?
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: No, um, you know, I wanted it to because I wanted people to like to get inspired and start running, and it didn't, and I'm not saying a marathon, but even if it's 5k, but also just make sure they make time for themselves because especially South Asian women, it's kind of like, oh, your husband has to come first and the kids have to be fed.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, yeah, but you can also just make a little bit of time to work and you know, for your own health, but for your own like mental health, especially.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, absolutely 100%, 100%.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_03: So I I want to I'm I'm always fascinated with the world record.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_03: So I like to just think it's fascinating.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so you meant you briefly mentioned it there, but I want to explore it.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_03: So, where did that come from?
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_03: Where did it come from?
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_03: Of well, actually, I want to break a world record.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_03: What sparked that?
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, when after I did it in like it, so the first time was four hours fifty minutes, and then, but that was like I I hadn't trained that much for the marathon, and I hadn't run in Asari before.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, okay, I could initially I thought I could improve on that pace, but then when I found out what the world record is, and I was like, hmm, you know, I've run marathons in 327 and three, you know, three hours 30 minutes.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, can I do?
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that the world record was three, was it 357 at the time?
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: So it was like I beat it by 12 minutes.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I thought, if I can even get 355, it's a world record.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: So let me try to see if I can.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, on the day I was looking for about three three hours 50 minutes, and then in my head, when I kind of like, you know, when you're at about 38 kilometers, I'm recalculating the time.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: And suddenly in my head, I was like, okay, a Boston qualifying time for my age is 345, a good for age London is 346.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I know getting half a minute faster isn't going to get me a place into London or Boston, but in my head, I was like, it's still gonna be a good for age.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like, let me try to get under 346, and that was my goal at that point.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, awesome.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_03: And that was this year, right?
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_03: When you was it this year you did your world record Manchester.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_03: And how how did you prepare differently?
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_03: I suppose two questions at one.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_03: So, how did you prepare differently?
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_03: A for running Asari, and then and then B for trying to break a world record in Asari.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_03: Did you do anything differently in your prep?
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I didn't, I never try like I've I've I did quite a few half marathons, not out in like any any half marathons I did.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: I tend to I tried to do it in Asari just to use that as um practice.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: So Manchester Half last October, I did it in Asari, and it was just more to kind of like, okay, I need to get used to wearing this in that way.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the only thing, the very first time I did it, I had it all the way draped to the ground and I had a big skirt underneath.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: I got rid of the skirt underneath.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: I I actually wore shorts, which I could put my gels in.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um and the first time I didn't even carry because I didn't know where to carry the gels, so I didn't carry any gels, and I just what they were handing out.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: But I was like, no, I definitely need my energy gel.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I had a belt and I had the shorts and I draped it slightly higher up so I wouldn't be tripping on it while I was running.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: In terms of training for the marathon, like like I said, in my 40s, it's been my fastest time, and I think I just realized I needed to be doing more consistent, like consistent running, but trying to making sure the long runs were very slow so that I could finish them.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: But also I started doing intervals again, and I think that made a massive difference just getting out and doing interval training.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_03: Did you did you do you uh I imagine you didn't do all the training in your sari, right?
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_03: Did you but did you do any training runs in the sari at all, or was it just for race day?
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: Just for race day, only because I wanted to, but between January and you know April in England, it's cold.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I've got layers on.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, of course, yeah.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_03: And did you you may obviously you touched on this briefly, but were there any special adaptations that were made?
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_03: Did you get a special one made, or was he just adapting a current one for the day, especially the world record attempt, or was it just no?
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: It was exactly the same sari, just um that my my mom's sari.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: It was just without the skirt inside.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: So normally when you wear a sari, you have like an underskirt that you tuck it into.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I I I drop like I ditched that um and I just wore shorts inside, and I had just a belt that I kind of tucked it into, the the sari, okay, and just lifted.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's higher up so it wasn't touching the ground.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_03: On the day you went out, then did you have any doubts in your mind?
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_03: Or a lot of doubts, or were you thinking, no, actually, I think I can definitely do this today?
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no, I had a lot of doubts because like like I said, with my age and everything, I'd had seen so many changes in my body, but I was just kind of like, okay, I've like people know I'm doing this.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's been on BBC, it's been on ITV and stuff.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Am I, what am I doing?
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't know if I can even run a sub four hour, never mind like 350.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I had a lot of doubts, and all my I kept telling myself as I was going was don't push too fast.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's 42 kilometers, pace yourself, don't get excited.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_03: I was going to ask about that.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_03: Actually, I was going to talk about the day itself and the race.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_03: Obviously, obviously being done a few marathons myself.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_03: I was just thinking about how did you construct what was you did you have a particular race strategy?
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_03: You mentioned the end bit, but you know, going through it, did do you have to plan your race strategy any differently from a from a just a pacing point of view or anything like that?
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it does add on a little bit of extra time.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I did make sure I was like I was running slightly slower than what I would normally run.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then like because a couple of times I had to readjust the pleats and like make sure it was tucked in.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: But so I did, but also, yeah, it was it was more just the fact that I I knew that I couldn't like maintain that pace in a sari for 42 kilometers, so slow it down.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: Because in my head, I was just like, okay, there's so many things can go wrong.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I could end up tripping on the sari, I could end up hitting the wall.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I was just like, I just needed to make sure I didn't get excited.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um push the pace too much, yeah.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_03: And when towards the end of the run, the race like you mentioned there, you started to feel that you know possibly you could break the record.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_03: How did that feel mentally?
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_03: What changed in your head?
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: Amazing.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like at 38 kilometers, I was like, oh, I think I've got this.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: But then, you know, like towards after 38, you still see people collapsing at the end.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, that's when you hit the wall.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I still kept telling myself, okay, try to maintain this pace, but don't like go all out, because that's when you know I could end up hitting the wall.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was it was about 40k, and you know, you've got two kilometers left.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: I had like, and by that time I knew unless something drastically goes wrong, I've done it, I can start like I can, you know, really go for it now.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_03: And how did that how did it feel when you crossed the finish line?
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, unreal.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like I was just kind of like, you know, when you just feel a bit like, is this real?
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: Is this really happen?
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I think Manchester Marathon came over to interview me and it was like, it was like, I was just overwhelmed and it's like, you know, when you just like this, did I really do this?
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, absolutely.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_03: And you mentioned, I think you've been very vocal about that.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_03: You, you know, after Manchester, like you said, you received a lot of messages from people who'd seen what you'd done and were thinking about running themselves.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_03: Did the reaction make you realise that the record had actually become perhaps more than just a world record?
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean, even the first time I did it, I just thought it was going to be for myself and get some photos and inspire a few people.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: But when people started contacting me saying they're doing like recently, they've just had this weekend, they had a sari run in a part of India and they contacted me for like a video and stuff.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I was just like, oh, that's so amazing.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, you know, you you've become a figure to so many people that are starting to run like 5K's, 10ks in sareis, four marathons as well.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I did actually have just after Manchester Marathon was London Marathon, and a girl on Instagram contacted me saying she wanted to now run in her mum's sari.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: So she's like, Oh, how should I drape it and stuff?
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: And she said she was inspired by it.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought that was really beautiful because it was a beautiful tribute to her mum who had passed away.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: And it's that really hit me that actually it's it wasn't just something I did for myself, it has actually inspired many people around the world to start taking up running in in any attire they want to.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, brilliant.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_03: That's inspirational.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_03: And why do you think why do you think representation matters so much in running, Madou?
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: When I first started running, that was 18 years ago.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: I was probably like during Dubai Marathon, I think I was the only brown woman I saw.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then I, you know, my first world major was after I qualified in Dubai, I did Boston.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: That was in um 2014.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: And literally, I think I saw one other South Asian man.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't see any South Asian women at all.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think there was one or two of us.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: And it was something that we don't grow up, like our parents don't really encourage us to run.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of, you know, study, you know, do all of that.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: You don't need to be running.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: And even now I get questioned like, what'd you gain from it?
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why'd you do it?
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: And it's kind of like, I don't think because they've never really experienced that run as high, but it's kind of like to we never see that, we've never seen we never grew up with that representation.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: So it's nice to see like people have contacted me saying their daughters are inspired seeing me.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: And it's nice to for the next generation that they can do all of these things.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think it's um I've just I've just noticed across the board actually in the last where are we now?
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_03: So particularly the last even the last 10 years, just the increase in running itself has meant that I mean, I you know, my my my my family's my in-laws are Polish, and like I went to Poland in 2015 and I literally saw I went out running because I was still running at the time and I saw no runners at all.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_03: And then I went out like this year, and literally there was a marked difference, you know, just in that sense.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_03: So I think it is it is that it's it's helping because it's it's becoming more uh people think it's more accessible, and that's can only be a good thing, I think, from especially from a community point of view and bringing people together.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_03: So very that's really good.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: So even in um when I first did Manchester Half when I moved back to England, that was in 2017.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think there was hardly any South Asian women, and I know this Sunday there's so many that are taking part because they've contacted me saying they're running, and I was like, Oh, that's so good, and that's so nice to see.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so there's another side to Manchester as well.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_03: So you're you're a SENS teacher uh and you use the world record attempt to raise money for specialist equipment for the school.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_03: So what uh tell me about that.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, what was the major driver that wanted you to use that in your running to support sort of send children as it were?
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I work, yeah, I work in a special needs school, and we it's quite significant special needs in the school, like multiple um learning difficulties, but also health-related um needs.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: So we have pupils who have like cerebral palsy and they use an eye gaze device to communicate.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you saw, but there was a boy who did his GCSEs this year using completely an eye gaze, and it took him about six months.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, and it is literally their communication by telling us like if they're hot or cold or hungry and you know, all of that.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, and they're so expensive.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: So normally if a pupil comes in, they would have you know, they would have had that device with them, but we don't have one at school.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, okay, well, that's about four or five thousand pounds.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: Let me see if I can raise, you know, using if it's gonna go onto the news and everything, let me use that platform to see if I can raise money for these for this device.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's nice.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's yeah, that's uh yeah, that that's really good.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_03: Um so I think a question that's gonna be uh on a lot of people's lips, particularly the mums and the females out there listening to this.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_03: So you're not a professional runner, um, you're sort of a teacher, you're a mumber two, you've got responsibilities going on.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_03: I suppose the the killer question, the blunt question is how on earth for all these years did you fit all this running in with all this going on?
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um I wake up really early, so I tend to wake up about four o'clock every morning.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: That's um that's when I do my run.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll kind of make um I'll like I'll make my coffee and while I'm making my coffee, I'll make the rice for the evening because my my kids like having rice with some sort of curry.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: And then um and then I hit the treadmill, or if it's light outside, I'll go outside at five o'clock, five till six.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and if my son doesn't have football practice or cricket practice or something in the evenings, then I can head out.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: But I tend to bulk cook on the weekends, so different curries and everything for the week.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: So it's all meal prepped and stuff.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: But I think I think the reason I've managed to do it is because I love it.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it is something that I absolutely love doing.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: My kids have grown up watching me run and they know my ma, if she doesn't run, she'll go a bit crazy.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: I don't, yeah, they're kind of like, yeah, so it's part of their lives.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's been consistent because it is so important to me.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: And it's something I enjoy.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: You do things that you enjoy all the time, and yeah.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_03: I want to ask because I think a classic expression, I don't like the word sacrifice.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_03: I I think it's quite a negative word.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_03: I like I prefer the expression trade-offs, um, because we have to trade off, don't we?
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_03: Because like if you go for a run early in the morning, you've got a trade-off saying in bed.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_03: So it's a trade-off, it's not one's better than the other, it's a trade-off.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_03: So you mentioned the alcohol.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um, now that's a journey that I've been on.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_03: I'll be three years in March next year.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I've done a couple of podcasts with um some guys who who specialise in that area.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_03: So is that something that was traded off for running, or is that just something is that, if you don't mind me asking, is that no?
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: So um that was so I'll still have very rarely the occasional drink.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: It was more the fact that in when we lived in Egypt, I I could have like I could go out with we'd have dinner parties and I'd have a glass of wine and I'd run, I'd be fine running 30k the next day.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I have one glass of wine now and I'm like I've got a headache in the morning.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm also like the small runner, I'm four foot eleven, petite, so my body just cannot handle it.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I wouldn't even say I don't, I if I it's like I enjoy running much more than having a drink.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I would prefer not to have a drink.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, and yeah, if I went to a wedding or something, I'd have a one glass or something.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: But like it's just reached a point where it's not important to me.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, yeah.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_03: So because you started your running journey when you became a parent pretty much straight away, which is which is which is f fascinating.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_03: Um, has there ever been a point when running just wasn't the priority for you?
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'd say so during my PGCE, so I I moved to England in 2017, and then the year later I did my teacher training.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: And again, like I said, I was on my own with two kids, and my son was in year like year six and year three.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: I still ran just to keep my mental health going and just to keep, you know, but I knew my times had completely like I think I ran Manchester Marathon that year.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it took me about four hours, 20 minutes, and I it was literally us dragging myself around because I was just like, you know, it's and all my training, because my kids were in primary school, I couldn't leave them on the like at alone at home.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_00: It was completely done on done on a treadmill.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't mind it as long as I was still getting that running fix and then think their dad came, my husband came to England um just for the marathon.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, okay, you take care of them while I go out and like do the marathon.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, although I did the marathons, it wasn't priority, like my pace wasn't priority, it was more the fact that it was just me running for my mental health as opposed to trying to get any kind of good time in the marathon.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, okay.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_03: Now, you've mentioned a lot about sort of running in your sort of as as you've gone through the age process, aging process, as we all do with running, and you're in your 40s now, and you've you've openly spoken about things like perimenopause affecting your energy levels.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_03: So, how has the runner you are today had to adapt compared to the runner you were when you started in respect of the changes that happen as you get to middle age?
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: So definitely, um, like I said, mentioned strength training, nutrition.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: I am really like cautious of what I eat.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I like I do make sure my meals have enough protein for recovery.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: I eat enough carbs to sustain the runs.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I am completely vegetarian, so it's a lot of tofu and like kidney beans, chickpeas and things.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's getting into bed at a decent time.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: So because my boys are older now, like they tend to get into bed after me.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: So it's fine, I have to go to bed now.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like prioritizing sleep, recovery, all those other things.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: I no longer do in my 30s, I would always do back-to-back long runs, like I could run 30k one day and 30 the next day.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas I do ensure very rarely in the summer holidays, if I'm kind of going out on a slow run, I'll do that.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas now I make sure that I do have, I might do a very gentle 5k or 10k recovery run, but I won't do more than that.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_03: What the key, well, you mentioned one there and a couple of things there.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, what are the key things you you do differently or better now because you are an older, more experienced runner?
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um better, let me think.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, probably nutrition, definitely nutrition, I'd say.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, definitely.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I really didn't care what I ate.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: I was just kind of like, it was only the three days when I was carb loading that I really focused on my nutrition, otherwise I wasn't really bothered.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas now, like consistently throughout the year, I do, I mean, I eat chocolate and stuff, but my meals are very, very like I'm thinking about getting enough nutrition overall.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, gotcha.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_03: So let's just briefly talk about the ultras that you've done then, because obviously, you know, clearly that marathons weren't enough.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_03: So, what's the longest you've gone in one go?
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_03: Longest race you've done in one go?
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: 100k.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_03: 100k.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_03: And what was it about doing that?
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_03: Like, what was it that made you go?
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I'm I'm perhaps looking for something more than just a marathon.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_03: Was there anything in particular?
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was the challenge.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if I can do a marathon, can I do something longer than that?
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I did a 50k race in India called the Bangalore Ultra.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: That was in um November 2012.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, it was on my younger son's second birthday, actually, and um I ended up winning that race.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: It was a trail run.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, cool.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then um I had my first 100, and I it was initially just like, oh, that's gonna be, we were visiting family in India, and I thought, oh, that'll be a good training run to the 100k.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: But then I did that and I was like, okay, yeah.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_00: So initially when I decided I wanted to do a hundred, it was it was I wanted a bit more of a challenge.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: I thought, okay, you know, the marathon's good, but let me see if I can run.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: I have no idea what I'm expecting.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: Let me see if I can do it.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, brilliant.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_03: And have with all this stuff you've you've done, all this stuff going on, like you've achieved.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_03: Has there been one race you can remember that's gone spectacularly wrong?
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, definitely.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um gosh, there's a few.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: Boston went really wrong for me.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: Which were the first one, or so I although I've qualified, I ran it just once.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, you've only ran it once.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_03: So you've qualified seven times or any once.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but um, that was in 2014, and I didn't realise I had celiac disease.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I was basically anything I was eating, I suddenly got to an age and I was basically couldn't digest.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: And and then I was also told, like, don't get too excited.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like when you start Boston, it kind of downhill, and then you've got heartbreak hill towards the end and stuff.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't really think about that, you know, you it kind of become a bit arrogant as a run away.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, and so the fact that I'd started quite dehydrated because I wasn't digesting anything and stuff, and then I and then I hit the wall, like massively hit the wall.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: In and that's the first time I've like experienced, you know, when your legs don't work, and I was holding the railing trying to get myself through the movie.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: And the only thing that kept me going, it was a year after the the I was gonna say 2014, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_03: After the bombings, yeah, yeah.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: And people were there and they were like, every single person's gonna finish this year.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: It was very emotional, and I was just kind of like, okay, somehow I got to the end, and then I lay down at the finish, like I was taken to a medical tent, and I had no, I traveled to America on my own for the marathon.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: And that's one thing I've learned is make sure like there's emergency contacts, people know you're running, they're there, kind of thing.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but then I I think I well I then I got diagnosed with celiac after that had my blood tests and stuff.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm making sure like I'm completely gluten-free.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_00: But also I think mentally I didn't I didn't pace myself when I look back to my paces.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: I was I went out really fast because it's downhill, and you think, oh, let me see if I can get this time.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I've learned from that over the years that actually like your training runs do kind of give you a very good idea of how you are going to do in the marathon.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: Although they are slower, I know what pace I can run.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_00: So it's important to kind of, you know, not not go all out, just make sure that you're this is sustainable for 42 kilometers.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_03: So let's say you now he's talking to you, you know, a couple of weeks before your very first marathon, all those years ago.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_03: What do you understand now about marathon running that you wish somebody had told you before your first one?
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: Energy gels are very important.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: Replacing your body does not have enough glycogen, your muscles don't have enough glycogen reserves for 42 kilometers.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: So it's so important that you you make sure and you train with the gels.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like I've got I know so many people who will just have gels on the day, and then obviously your stomach goes.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: Your gut has to get used to those specific brands of gels, yeah.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, trying to get it like as you know, whatever interval you want.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: I try Manchester Marathon, I took them every 5k, which really worked for me.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_00: But I trained my body to do that.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: Hydration is so important.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like, don't wait till you're thirsty.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: You need to put the water back in even before you you feel the thirst.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and yeah, the main thing is pacing yourself.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's like you might feel good, but you should know what kind of pace you're aiming for.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_00: And like just it might seem very easy at the very, very beginning, but after 30k, it is gonna start getting harder, and it's important you don't you you think about that.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_03: Is there one particular mistake that you would tell yourself not to repeat?
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you were talking to yourself about the Yeah, um, I would say definitely.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's quite a few marathons where I mean my best marathon, I did do a negative split, and that's the only time I've done a negative split, and I'd like to kind of like do that again.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I think a lot of marathons, when I do look at back at my pace, I have gone a bit too fast, you know, thinking, oh, I'm gonna this time I'm gonna do it, and this time, you know, that kind of thing.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_00: So even like now, the next one, I know that okay, I my body is not the same as it was in the 30s, slow down, and then if you have enough energy, then pick it up after about 35k.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_03: Good advice.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_03: Uh yeah, that that that there's some good stuff in there, particularly about the other stuff as well with the gels and all that.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_03: It's very good advice.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_03: So if you um obviously you've done you've done all this really cool stuff, you've achieved all these things.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_03: What have you got?
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_03: What is left for you to get from running Maddox?
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I like I didn't qualify for Boston when I ran um when I ran Manchester.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like so it was it, I needed 345.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_00: I would love to do it again.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's a weird phase because phase at the moment, because my younger son now has his GCS Eastern A levels.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_00: My goal is that I want to run Boston again.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_00: I want to experience it better than I experienced that one where I was like dragging myself through the finish line.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I want to qualify.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_00: And like I said, the last time I qualified, I was 37.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm nearly turning 47 now.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_00: So that's my goal.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: But also, um, I'm I'm doing Chester in two weeks' time.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_00: That'll be marathon.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'll be marathon number 44.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I've kind of planned it.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I've got six after that, and I've got three more years till I turn 50.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: So my 50th marathon should coincide with my 50th birthday.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_03: Of course, yeah, of course.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_03: Have you done Chester before?
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_00: I've never done Chester, but I've done it.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_03: I did it in 2018.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_03: It's uh yeah, it's a good run.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_03: Very, very, very it's only small, but in context of obviously the ones we're talking about here.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_03: But very well organized, fantastically organized.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's a really quite hilly or no, no, it's flat.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_03: No, no, no.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_03: Well, no, but it's flat.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's very you go basically into the country.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_03: So I think you unless they've changed the course, you basically do like a a horseshoe.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_03: You run into Wales and then back up.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_03: I say up, you don't go uphill, but and it's most of it, majority of it's flat.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_03: There is a sneaky little 20 hill when you're in Chester town centre, actually, as you're coming back in.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's about 24 miles unless they've changed the course.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_03: Which is you know, one of them ones when you're in a town centre and you turn a corner and then there's a little incline, like in Manchester when you're in Altringham and you go up that little bit, which isn't you're not gonna say it's a hill because at most it's flat.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, so that's it.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_03: But apart from that, as I remember, it's it's a flat course, and you are literally just out in the countryside for most of it, so it's very um, it's quite scenic as well.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_03: So it's uh yeah, it's a good run and it's a good time of year as well because you should get the temperature.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, it's a good run.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_03: It's a good run.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_03: So my final two questions that I ask everyone.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_03: So the first question is if there's somebody listening to this who's perhaps in their 40s or 50s and thinking they've maybe left it too late to become a runner or even not run their first marathon or even discover what they're capable of, what would you say to them, Madhu?
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's definitely not too late, it's never too late.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, start slow, don't kind of suddenly do what I did in 116k.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_00: Start off with you could start with couch to 5K and build up to 5K, then aim for a 10.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_00: Just it doesn't have to be a full marathon, you know, find the distance that suits you.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, do the strength training to support those, you know.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_00: I've got so many people that are like, oh, they've got knee pain, and a lot of the pains that come is because of muscles have not been strengthened.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, definitely not too late.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it is it's one of those things that I think most people, once they get that run as high, will know what I'm feeling.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's such an amazing feeling.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_00: Crossing the finish line of a 10k, a half, or a full marathon.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, there's nothing, I mean, uh, yeah, I mean, I'll I've I've tiered up a few times.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um, great north run.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_03: A couple of years last year tiered up because it's such a big event, you know.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_03: It was just like I just it was just insane to do this like root particular run.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_03: So it does, it does get quite, it does consume you a little bit and and the emotions like considering you've just done you've just physically like you know, you know, battered your body to a certain degree.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_03: It's like the physical feeling is amazing.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_03: So on that note, which is nice leading to my final question, which is my philosophical question, which I ask everybody, Madu, which is how has this whole experience changed you?
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_00: I I grew up um as a child with very little confidence.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I was the quiet child at school who didn't even put her hand up, and you know, it was like I was just so shy.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's given me so much confidence, knowing you can do things that a lot of people around the world can't.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_00: You can run a full marathon and ultra and stuff.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it has given me it's made me a completely different person.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_00: Our parents will say exactly the same thing.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_00: Ever since I started running, I became much more confident, but I feel it also became made me much more of a patient person, a patient mother, a patient teacher.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_00: Just because like while you're running, you you become resilient to a lot of things around you, your your body and stuff.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's just made me uh much more of a karma person.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I always, yeah, it's um yeah, yeah, it just it's weird in that sense because it's so physically demanding, especially when you go into marathon distance, but it it does sort of it does ground you to a certain degree.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's a good way, especially it's a good way to you know get out of your head into your body.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_03: So that's uh that's a brilliant way to finish.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_03: So uh I think you've I mean a fantastic story, very hopefully very inspirational, particularly, you know, still doing it now, even you know, as things going on.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_03: I think go get speaking to a lot of people potentially with uh that's going back to the motherhood thing, the the job thing, the you know, the the sense stuff, you know, all of that, brilliant.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, doing any sort of exercise with all that going on is is is incredible, but doing what you've done you know and taking it to where you've taken it to is is also incredible, and the representation thing as well.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, that's really, really important.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_03: I think you know, not only for from a female point of view, but a you know, a female representation point of view as well.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's a very important thing to do.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_03: And it's amazing who you inspire by doing stuff like that.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and it's always the people that you don't know as well, isn't it?
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_03: You can get on the radio and the TV, and all this all this is great, and people have contacted you, but it's the people that often don't that are the ones that make the biggest difference.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_03: So uh yeah, I um I appreciate your time and your honesty uh and your openness.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_03: It's really, really, really good interview, very inspirational indeed, and hopefully that will motivate a lot of potential lot of people to know that you know they can do or at least go out and try stuff that perhaps they didn't think was possible before.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_03: So thank you very much.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_03: Anything else from you, Madam?
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's it.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_00: I would love to.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_00: My goal is also a hundred mile run at some point, but the only thing is I need to get I'm so scared of running in the dark, so I need to find someone who will run it with me.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, absolutely.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you don't want to well there's that one, isn't it, where you do run in the tunnel for 200 miles and it's just no, that's some crap.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I watch these documents.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, like I'm um marathons for me, you know, concrete, concrete, give me that all day.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um that's not my bat, but fair play to anybody who does that sort of stuff.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, uh fair play to you.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_03: So where can people find you online, Maddie?
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I'm on Facebook, I'm on Instagram as the small runner.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that's it, yeah.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_03: So at the small runner, yeah, it's all one word.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the small runner, yeah.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_03: The small runner, yeah.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_03: Obviously, that's easy, fairly easy to find.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_03: We'll put we'll pop it down in the description as well.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_03: So thank you very much for your time.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, thank you to everyone for listening.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_03: I do appreciate it.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_03: As always, if you want to subscribe to the podcast, please feel free to do so wherever you get your podcast from, Spotify or Apple.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_03: If you do use those two platforms, please forget to don't forget to drop me a review, particularly on Spotify.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_03: It really helps me to drop the five-star review on there and a comment if you can, and please share this with anybody that you feel it may inspire, and anybody that you feel may get benefit from it, that would be appreciated as well.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, Maddo's give you her details to follow.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_03: If you want to follow me as always, you can at 12 Months to Marathon over on Instagram.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_03: You can follow me there.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_03: If you head to the link in my bio as well, you can join my free running community for the over 35s, where we can take you away from the noise of social media and we can connect and give you tips and accountability over there as well.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_03: So, thanks again for listening.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_03: I really, really appreciate it very much, Madhu.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I'll speak to everybody again very soon.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks very much.