Latest / Love Matters With Leeza Mangaldas / Shahana Goswami on Sex, Body Positivity & Owning Your Sexuality

Transcript

Shahana Goswami on Sex, Body Positivity & Owning Your Sexuality · Love Matters With Leeza Mangaldas

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Speaker 1: I definitely was very keenly and actively sexual from a
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Speaker 1: very young age. There was a lot of general ease
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Speaker 1: and comfort with my family with bodies, which I think
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Speaker 1: gave me an ease and comfort with my body in general.
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Speaker 2: It's the most natural thing in the world to be
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Speaker 2: curious about your body and who you are sexually. At
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Speaker 2: that talking about sex is like talking about a recipe
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Speaker 2: or as Neither is it like.
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Speaker 3: Oh sex, and nor is it like a bad dirty thing.
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Speaker 4: It's just a thing. Yeah.
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Speaker 1: I'm one of those I would want the world to
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Speaker 1: be naked, you know. I mean, clothes should be optional,
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Speaker 1: but largely people should just be comfortable being naked and
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Speaker 1: just be naked everywhere.
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Speaker 3: Welcome to love matters to Hannah.
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Speaker 4: Lisa, how are you doing very good?
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Speaker 3: You know?
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Speaker 4: Sorry, not no, I just think it's so great to
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Speaker 4: be here with you after It's so crazy.
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Speaker 2: I've loved and admired you from and I'm so glad
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Speaker 2: today we're here. A little birdy told me that you
1:00
Speaker 2: have only had.
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Speaker 3: Bad sex three times.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, so tell me.
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Speaker 2: I'd like to think I'd like to think that I
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Speaker 2: can relate, but I want this about you today, So
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Speaker 2: tell me what good sex is for you.
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Speaker 4: I think it's.
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Speaker 1: Sex is probably a space where I feel the most
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Speaker 1: out of my head. Usually I'm more in the flow
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Speaker 1: and more connected to the other person's energy.
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Speaker 4: And it kind of becomes even when I've had sex
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Speaker 4: with people that.
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Speaker 1: I don't know very well, or it's you know, the
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Speaker 1: first time, or there's always been, it somehow becomes a
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Speaker 1: language to kind of break the ice, and I feel
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Speaker 1: like with a lot of people, it creates the intimacy
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Speaker 1: that then follows in words, you know, in terms of
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Speaker 1: being able to communicate better, in terms of being able
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Speaker 1: to be vulnerable in terms suddenly it kind of eases
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Speaker 1: everything up. And so for me, it's always been my
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Speaker 1: draw to a person, always been the energetic exchange between us,
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Speaker 1: and then the sexuality just becomes an expression of that,
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Speaker 1: like a play of that, and perhaps it's an it's
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Speaker 1: a thing that's easy to lean into for me. Also
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Speaker 1: because I'm comfortable with my body. I'm comfortable with touch
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Speaker 1: and sensuality and sex. And I mean I talk to
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Speaker 1: a lot of my girlfriends who or other like friends
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Speaker 1: a boy girl where there is sex being driven by
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Speaker 1: a desire to have sex that I am not consciously
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Speaker 1: ever thinking of like, oh, I'm Horney, I need.
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Speaker 4: To have sex.
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Speaker 1: So for me, it comes up in a moment. If
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Speaker 1: I meet someone and I have that thing, then I'm
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Speaker 1: then I'm ready to have sex. But I don't set
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Speaker 1: out knowing that I'm eager to.
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Speaker 4: Have sex tonight, you know, totally.
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Speaker 1: So that's probably why I feel like whenever it does happen,
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Speaker 1: it is always somehow some kind of a connect that
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Speaker 1: I have.
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Speaker 4: With the person.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, when we were planning this conversation with you, I
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Speaker 2: was so excited to talk about what it means to
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Speaker 2: own your sexuality because I think for so many people,
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Speaker 2: the distinction between sex and sexuality isn't even clear.
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Speaker 3: You know, people think sexuality equal sex equal sexuality. Sex
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Speaker 3: is going small part.
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Speaker 4: Of that part of it.
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Speaker 2: And I feel like we share an interest in and
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Speaker 2: like sort of an embodyment exactly, thank you, an embodiment
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Speaker 2: of sexuality as something that is important part of who
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Speaker 2: we are.
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Speaker 3: In this way that I feel very privileged.
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Speaker 2: We've had the maybe environment upbringing ability to even ask those.
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Speaker 3: Questions of ourselves and learn about ourselves in that.
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Speaker 2: Way, which which I think most people don't get to do.
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Speaker 2: You know, like sexuality is a part of your whole
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Speaker 2: being right and and to me, sex is a form
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Speaker 2: of connection rather than I'm horney tonight, so let's have
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Speaker 2: penetrative intercourse.
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Speaker 4: You know, like nothing.
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Speaker 1: Value judgment to that, But it doesn't happen to me.
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Speaker 1: That's not my If I feel like that on an occasion,
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Speaker 1: I'll mastery exactly, you know. But for me, sex is
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Speaker 1: about the connection, whatever that connection may be like, even
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Speaker 1: if it's sexually driven, it still has to be a
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Speaker 1: sexual flow connection between the two people in that moment,
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Speaker 1: you know, And that chemistry is not determined by I
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Speaker 1: think you're good looking, you've got the body, you know,
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Speaker 1: It doesn't none of those things tick that box for me.
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Speaker 1: It has to be something inexplicable that you feel a
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Speaker 1: pull towards someone.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the word you use about energy like
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Speaker 2: sexuality and your sexuality and there's an energy and exchange
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Speaker 2: of energy is a powerful one.
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Speaker 3: Well, you like, for me, I was quite.
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Speaker 2: Young when I became aware of my own sexual energy.
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Speaker 3: Were you are saying.
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Speaker 1: I think I was very aware of it because I
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Speaker 1: was very very aware of my body from when I
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Speaker 1: was very young. And I don't know where or why
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Speaker 1: that came, but it was there. There was a lot
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Speaker 1: of general ease and comfort with my family with bodies,
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Speaker 1: like we could roam around around each other. It was
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Speaker 1: not something that was kind of taboo or you know,
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Speaker 1: hiding from each other. If it came out of a shower,
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Speaker 1: you had a towel, you know, dropped it, turn changed it,
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Speaker 1: and that continued for forever.
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Speaker 4: You know.
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Speaker 1: There was a certain ease and comfort with each other
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Speaker 1: in that so which I think gave me an ease
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Speaker 1: and comfort with my body in general, and then that
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Speaker 1: kind of got more and more solidified over time, which
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Speaker 1: is why I also have that ease and comfort, whether
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Speaker 1: it's with other people, when I'm engaging sexually with people,
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Speaker 1: whether it's wearing whatever clothes I want to wear, whether
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Speaker 1: it is being in front of camera. You know, there
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Speaker 1: there is an ease with my body in that sense
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Speaker 1: which I have which has come from that. But yes,
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Speaker 1: the sexual part, I definitely was very keenly and actively
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Speaker 1: sexual from a very young age.
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Speaker 2: I think that the point you raise about families in
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Speaker 2: the role they stand to play like I think, unfortunately,
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Speaker 2: especially in our culture but to some extent all over
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Speaker 2: the world, the home itself, it's like the first sight
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Speaker 2: of shame and around repressionaly. Even in your own home,
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Speaker 2: you are made to sit a certain way or dress
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Speaker 2: a certain way or kind of you're made aware of
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Speaker 2: the fact that your body and your sexuality is something
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Speaker 2: to be hidden. Absolutely, and I'm so lucky I feel
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Speaker 2: that I didn't have that, Like my home was not
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Speaker 2: a site of shame.
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Speaker 3: Yes, my parents never tried to police my self expression
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Speaker 3: or relationship with my body yourself.
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Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely. I mean I also had attractions or boyfriend
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Speaker 1: Like I had a boyfriend from when I was ten
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Speaker 1: to fifteen on and off, and everything was discussed with
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Speaker 1: my family. At that point of course, there was very
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Speaker 1: little sexuality playing out. But having said that, there was
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Speaker 1: exploration with women you know, when you're young, but that
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Speaker 1: started much earlier. But with the men, it you know,
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Speaker 1: came much later. But at least there was the romantic
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Speaker 1: expression on All of that came about pretty early, and
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Speaker 1: none of it was.
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Speaker 4: Problematic for my family. I think post puberty, I think
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Speaker 4: people get.
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Speaker 1: A bit more worried in terms of you know, just
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Speaker 1: when you have boyfriends and you're three fourteen, nobody cares
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Speaker 1: and then suddenly, like after that, it seems like, oh, maybe,
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Speaker 1: you know, one should be concerned, but not in any
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Speaker 1: serious way. Like you said, I had the privilege and
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Speaker 1: the luxury to not only have the space but to
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Speaker 1: also discuss it with my family like it was. It
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Speaker 1: was something that I felt comfortable enough and had the.
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Speaker 4: Space to discuss.
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Speaker 2: And what for you were the sort of experiences or
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Speaker 2: I don't know, maybe relationships that allowed for you to
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Speaker 2: discover those parts of yourself, like for me going to
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Speaker 2: boarding school for example, you know everyone was changing in privacy.
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Speaker 3: You don't have like that.
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Speaker 2: There was a real ease around navigating life as a
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Speaker 2: young adult that maybe if you're having to do this
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Speaker 2: separate person for your family and parents and separate version
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Speaker 2: of yourself your friends.
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Speaker 3: A lot of people I know did have to do
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Speaker 3: this double life type of film growing up, which I
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Speaker 3: didn't have to do.
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Speaker 2: And I think of that as coming of age in
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Speaker 2: this environment where my identity was not being policed, I
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Speaker 2: think really helped make me who I am, thanks to
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Speaker 2: my family being amazing, but also thanks school, going to
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Speaker 2: college in New York, but the environments that were conducive
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Speaker 2: to me having a sense of freedom and exploration and
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Speaker 2: curiosity did you also have.
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Speaker 3: Those sorts of environments.
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Speaker 1: I actually had that with all my close friends as well,
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Speaker 1: like we would shower together and not in a sexual way,
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Speaker 1: just again the ease and comfort of being, you know,
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Speaker 1: continuing conversation, so why stop, you know, or if you
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Speaker 1: go to the world, so you continue the conversation, you know.
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Speaker 1: And I think I got so used to that and
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Speaker 1: spoilt but that that I initiated a lot of people
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Speaker 1: into it, other friends, other lovers. Like I just had
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Speaker 1: that ease of just like making.
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Speaker 4: Light of.
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Speaker 1: Just being able to move fluidly in a way where
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Speaker 1: or less self conscious in a sense. And I didn't
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Speaker 1: do it to try and bring someone out of it.
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Speaker 1: That was just my natural expression. And I assume that
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Speaker 1: people would be like that because you tend to kind
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Speaker 1: of think in terms of what your reality is as
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Speaker 1: you've grown up, and then I would realize that people
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Speaker 1: had different boundaries, but they were happy to kind of extend.
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Speaker 4: Their boundaries to some extent, you know.
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Speaker 1: And I still have that dynamic with my friends where
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Speaker 1: I have that ease and comfort with them and they
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Speaker 1: with me, so that I think again, my female friendships
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Speaker 1: also really helped in that, and also my male friendships.
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Speaker 4: I think from a very young age I had a
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Speaker 4: lot of.
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Speaker 1: Male friends as well, and I was a lot of
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Speaker 1: I mean I was quite a tomboy, so I didn't
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Speaker 1: make that distinction either because I grew up with a
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Speaker 1: older brother, so you know, I had this sense of, yeah,
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Speaker 1: we're all friends, right, Like gender doesn't really make a difference.
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Speaker 1: So like I remember showing my bra the first time
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Speaker 1: I wore a bra to my guy friends because I
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Speaker 1: was like, they're my friends, you know, it's.
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Speaker 4: The big deal. Oh, I see what I'm wearing today,
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Speaker 4: a bra.
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Speaker 1: So we had that is also where even with friends
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Speaker 1: and other male friends who are a buddy like with
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Speaker 1: I could stay in the house, use their dirty towels,
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Speaker 1: where their boxes, and sleep at night, you know, and
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Speaker 1: be braless and it was not a big deal.
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Speaker 2: I think so many people are uncomfortable with this type
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Speaker 2: of conversation, even or dynamic, because they're unable to distinguish
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Speaker 2: or sort of set apart prior is apart the body
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Speaker 2: and any type of equation between people, particularly opposite from sexuality.
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Speaker 2: I think by talking about sex and being open about it,
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Speaker 2: being easy about it, you're actually.
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Speaker 3: Kind of like de escalating.
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Speaker 2: Some of the baggage of it, whereas by being so
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Speaker 2: silent and a shame like I'm sure some people like
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Speaker 2: these two crazy ladies boyfriends at ten.
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Speaker 3: Like we are.
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Speaker 2: I know, I realized uncomfortable with the idea of adolescent
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Speaker 2: affection or exploration. But it's the most natural thing in
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Speaker 2: the world to be curious about your body and who
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Speaker 2: you are sectually at that or and even just the
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Speaker 2: easy and intimacy between friends or between.
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Speaker 3: Everything's not sexual. When I was in college, there was
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Speaker 3: I took a figure during class.
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Speaker 2: I studied art and literature, and there were all these people,
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Speaker 2: like all kinds of people from all walks of life,
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Speaker 2: who would be the nude model for the old people,
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Speaker 2: young people, black people, white people, poor people. Like it
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Speaker 2: wasn't only idealized, you know, some sort of like magazine
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Speaker 2: cover type of body, because you do there was no
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Speaker 2: barrier to entry, You had no qualifications required.
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Speaker 3: You just had to be a person.
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Speaker 4: Who was to get paid.
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Speaker 2: So it was the diversity of bodies and just the
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Speaker 2: fact that when you're doing for two hours looking at
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Speaker 2: a naked person, it's not sexual at all.
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Speaker 3: It's almost like appreciating some sort.
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Speaker 2: Of beautiful biological form, the way you would for still
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Speaker 2: life of flowers. And I think that the shame most
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Speaker 2: people have around nakedness, around the body around and this
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Speaker 2: idea that they're sitting there judging people like us who
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Speaker 2: might walk around without a brass if we're.
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Speaker 4: The like gul hyper one.
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Speaker 2: You know, there's actually, I think some investigation those people
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Speaker 2: need to do to be more comfortable with this start.
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Speaker 1: Yes, but I also feel like it also becomes I
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Speaker 1: think because I grew up in Delhi, which was very repressive.
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Speaker 1: So even though I had all this support system from
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Speaker 1: the humans around me, this city and the environment that
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Speaker 1: I lived in would always make.
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Speaker 4: Me feel constricted.
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Speaker 1: Right, whatever I wore, no matter what like I had to,
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Speaker 1: I would always have a frown on my face and
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Speaker 1: I would slouch through my childhood. I moved to Bombay
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Speaker 1: when I was eighteen, and then I felt a different
12:35
Speaker 1: kind of freedom over here.
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Speaker 3: Right.
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Speaker 4: My friend keeps saying, judgment is a two way street.
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Speaker 1: You know, if you only feel judged when you're letting
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Speaker 1: somebody else's judgment actually affect you and make you question yourself,
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Speaker 1: But when you stand in your own strength, that judgment
12:50
Speaker 1: can either stay and not affect you or the other
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Speaker 1: person actually shifts their opinion. And that is something that
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Speaker 1: I've noticed a lot that even though, for example, as
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Speaker 1: an actor, I have done many sexual scenes throughout my career,
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Speaker 1: right from the start, but I have never been associated
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Speaker 1: with a sultory actress or not been ever approached by
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Speaker 1: people in a way where with a lot of ludness.
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Speaker 1: And you know, even on Instagram when I've posted sometimes
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Speaker 1: some sort of suggestive or new images, people have actually
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Speaker 1: looked at it. As you know, there could be the
13:25
Speaker 1: one or two people who And I also feel like
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Speaker 1: if somebody says, wow, you're looking sexy and hot, why
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Speaker 1: not exactly that?
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Speaker 4: I mean, that isn't appreciation.
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Speaker 1: I appreciate it. When my friends said, why should I
13:36
Speaker 1: not appreciate it? If somebody else is saying it, they're
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Speaker 1: also saying it out of appreciation. As long as it's
13:40
Speaker 1: not going into a space of like being lewde.
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Speaker 4: Or cheap, I think it's totally okay, you know.
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Speaker 1: So that's also something that I've noticed that the more
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Speaker 1: I show up in a way where I understand where
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Speaker 1: it's coming from. When my body, when my being is
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Speaker 1: more sexual and it seems sexual, but it isn't. When
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Speaker 1: it's coming out, and as a form of art, I
14:06
Speaker 1: feel like it somehow largely gets understood, you know, and
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Speaker 1: not that I'm seeking. I mean maybe a part of
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Speaker 1: me is seeking that validation. I do feel good about
14:14
Speaker 1: it when that happens, but I don't expect it.
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Speaker 4: I actually expect the opposite.
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Speaker 1: I constantly expect that there will be judgment, there will
14:21
Speaker 1: be some sort of a backlash to it. But it
14:24
Speaker 1: doesn't happen so far. You know, every step of the way,
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Speaker 1: it's been something that people are like, oh, okay, yeah,
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Speaker 1: I get it.
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Speaker 3: Yeah. Same. I mean, I talk about sex on the internet.
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Speaker 3: Many people Ye're like, oh my god, I get so
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Speaker 3: much it. But I actually don't get that.
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Speaker 4: But people are, well, you.
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Speaker 3: Want people want to talk about.
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Speaker 2: I think it puts it is actually quite a special thing.
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Speaker 2: I think in a world that tries its hardest to
14:50
Speaker 2: make women feel ashamed of their sexuality and body and
14:53
Speaker 2: to kind of like be their own policemen, you know,
14:57
Speaker 2: the patriarchy is so relentless, and it's a valance and
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Speaker 2: control of women's sexuality and even within ourselves exactly like
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Speaker 2: and so I think it can be very sort of
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Speaker 2: powerful to see.
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Speaker 3: Another woman reject that shame.
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Speaker 2: Do not allow the judgment and shame of others to
15:15
Speaker 2: be projected on her, and to be comfortable and to
15:17
Speaker 2: not be making it's it's it's something that ideally, it's
15:22
Speaker 2: a fact of life. It's just talking about sex is
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Speaker 2: like talking about a recipe or not. Neither is it
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Speaker 2: like oh sex, and nor is it like a bad,
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Speaker 2: dirty thing.
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Speaker 4: It's just a thing. It's just a thing.
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Speaker 2: And so I'm deeply invested in like making sex just
15:36
Speaker 2: to think like a thing we can talk about. It's
15:38
Speaker 2: a fun thing. It's a joyful, beautiful, magical thing. Yeah,
15:42
Speaker 2: And neither do I want to have to feel the
15:45
Speaker 2: need to justify yes or torn down or you know,
15:50
Speaker 2: it's just like the way we talk about food, films,
15:55
Speaker 2: anything else exactly, or the way we discuss friendships or relationships.
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Speaker 4: Why is it very different?
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Speaker 1: You know, it's just an aspect of life that we
16:04
Speaker 1: engage and constantly think about in many ways. You know,
16:08
Speaker 1: it's a very big part of our our psyche and
16:13
Speaker 1: our being.
16:14
Speaker 4: You know.
16:15
Speaker 2: On that note, we're going to do a little rapid
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Speaker 2: fire segment called no Overthinking, where I will say something
16:23
Speaker 2: and you just respond with the first thing that comes
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Speaker 2: to mind.
16:26
Speaker 3: Okay, this is.
16:27
Speaker 4: I'm such an overthinker, but yeah, we're.
16:29
Speaker 3: Getting trying to not to overthink sex. Okay. The biggest
16:33
Speaker 3: turn on for me is.
16:36
Speaker 4: Eyes.
16:36
Speaker 1: I think it's like, yeah, it's a look in the eyes,
16:39
Speaker 1: it's a gaze in the eyes.
16:40
Speaker 4: Yeah.
16:41
Speaker 3: A red flag I always notice is.
16:45
Speaker 4: Arrogance.
16:47
Speaker 3: The last time I surprised myself in bed was when.
16:52
Speaker 4: Ah, I suppose.
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Speaker 1: I mean, it kind of happens every time, and in
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Speaker 1: some sense I don't know. I feel like every time
17:03
Speaker 1: there's some flow or some thing that happens that is
17:07
Speaker 1: a surprise.
17:08
Speaker 3: I love that every time.
17:09
Speaker 4: Every time.
17:12
Speaker 3: I know I'm into someone, when they.
17:16
Speaker 1: When they know when I feel a certain way. When
17:20
Speaker 1: I was thinking about this the other day, they know
17:23
Speaker 1: there's that I know this is a rapid fire. But
17:24
Speaker 1: I was thinking about how you know there's a moment
17:26
Speaker 1: when you when you realize I like this person and
17:29
Speaker 1: there's a thing to it, And I was wondering what
17:32
Speaker 1: that moment really is. But I think it's just when
17:34
Speaker 1: you feel like there's a certain sense of like like
17:38
Speaker 1: there's a silly smile that comes on your face. You
17:40
Speaker 1: look forward to a message. Sometimes I feel that little
17:43
Speaker 1: drop of the heart, you know, like that kind of stuff.
17:50
Speaker 2: Yes, the best thing I've learned from a past relationship is.
17:56
Speaker 4: Sexually or otherwise.
17:58
Speaker 1: I think the best thing that I learned very early
18:00
Speaker 1: on in one relationship was that your happiness and your
18:04
Speaker 1: sadness is never related to anyone else. It's to do
18:07
Speaker 1: with you and how you respond. And that suddenly freed
18:11
Speaker 1: me off. It started to wean me off the idea
18:14
Speaker 1: of expectations, and so that really helped because then every
18:19
Speaker 1: time something upsets me with people, I can always see
18:23
Speaker 1: that as, oh, it's something that I need to work
18:25
Speaker 1: through because it's upsetting me excessively because there's some sort
18:30
Speaker 1: of wounding inside.
18:32
Speaker 2: So yeah, Okay, the kink I didn't expect to enjoy.
18:38
Speaker 4: Is kink would be.
18:41
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think maybe wearing costume or wearing some wearing
18:45
Speaker 1: something specifically for sex that.
18:46
Speaker 3: Was fair like that sex without emotional connection.
18:51
Speaker 1: Is you know, Honestly, this is a discussion I was
18:56
Speaker 1: having yesterday that I don't think, at least in my head,
18:58
Speaker 1: in my narrative, I don't know of me having. If
19:02
Speaker 1: it's happened, it would have happened.
19:04
Speaker 4: When I'm drunk and I don't remember.
19:07
Speaker 1: But otherwise, sex for me is always with some connect,
19:10
Speaker 1: even when I've done it like without thinking, there has always.
19:14
Speaker 4: Been some sort of a connect.
19:16
Speaker 1: So I don't know if I've ever had sex without
19:20
Speaker 1: feeling any connect.
19:21
Speaker 3: Monogamy is.
19:24
Speaker 4: Not for me. Not for me.
19:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're gonna talk more about that, Okay. I wish
19:29
Speaker 2: more people would talk honestly about.
19:35
Speaker 4: About the sexual desires. Maybe.
19:36
Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of there's still so much
19:39
Speaker 1: shame around fantasy and desire, which people really feel restricted
19:45
Speaker 1: to talk.
19:45
Speaker 4: About even with their own partners. I feel like they
19:48
Speaker 4: don't talk enough about it.
19:50
Speaker 3: Gosh. Yeah, I love talking about that stuff with a partner.
19:52
Speaker 2: But it's crazy how many people never actually talk about
19:55
Speaker 2: the sex they're having.
19:55
Speaker 3: Yeah, they have sex, but.
19:57
Speaker 4: And then don't talk about it.
19:59
Speaker 1: Yeah, don't talk about it with their friends, but they
20:02
Speaker 1: won't kind of Yeah.
20:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, so let's talk about monogamy a bit. Actually, let's
20:06
Speaker 2: talk about identity and then get into monogamy, Like, how
20:10
Speaker 2: do you identify a sexually? Do you resonate with? Like
20:13
Speaker 2: all these the new lexic kind of labels are not
20:15
Speaker 2: very Do you prefer no labels?
20:17
Speaker 1: I mean ideally, yes, I prefer no labels because every
20:20
Speaker 1: label comes with an idea and a construct. And the
20:22
Speaker 1: whole point for me at some point was that I
20:25
Speaker 1: think I had this notion since I was young that
20:27
Speaker 1: I felt like like I was saying for me, maybe
20:30
Speaker 1: I've lived a life where friendship was the highest form
20:33
Speaker 1: of relationship because I felt like there's a sense of freedom,
20:36
Speaker 1: there's no obligation, yet there is such a deep sense
20:39
Speaker 1: of connection, trust, lovingness, and a constant adjusting.
20:43
Speaker 4: No two friendships are the same.
20:44
Speaker 1: No two friendships make you show up in the same way,
20:48
Speaker 1: and yet there's a constant evolution and growth that happens
20:52
Speaker 1: that is based and rooted in trust and love. And
20:55
Speaker 1: I have a lot of romance in my friendships with
20:58
Speaker 1: my girlfriends, with my guy friends, Like there's a there's
21:00
Speaker 1: a certain depth that brings a kind of romanticness for me,
21:03
Speaker 1: you know, And so for me, that is what I
21:05
Speaker 1: would want in a romantic relationship where you have that
21:09
Speaker 1: sense of being able to evolve as friends, you know,
21:13
Speaker 1: keeping that as the base and trusting in the love
21:16
Speaker 1: that you have with each other. Then how long where
21:18
Speaker 1: whatever that one will see because you can never determine.
21:21
Speaker 1: You cannot guarantee that you're going to be with someone forever.
21:24
Speaker 1: You can only guarantee that you want to walk this
21:27
Speaker 1: path right now, and that you're going to keep communicating
21:29
Speaker 1: and talking about where you're at, both of you right
21:32
Speaker 1: and then engaging.
21:33
Speaker 4: That's about it.
21:34
Speaker 1: So I think for me, I would say the word
21:37
Speaker 1: that ends up being used as polyamorous because I'm not single.
21:41
Speaker 1: I do have people that I'm with that I have
21:44
Speaker 1: been in a long term space with where there's an
21:46
Speaker 1: everydays there is a sense of commitment to walking along together.
21:51
Speaker 1: Then there are people who have been there where it's
21:53
Speaker 1: not so explicit, but they have been there for a while.
21:56
Speaker 1: There are so but it's all open and spoken about,
22:02
Speaker 1: and for me that becomes important. I don't like keeping
22:04
Speaker 1: things hidden, and I don't because that creates that sense
22:09
Speaker 1: of shame and guilt which I don't appreciate.
22:13
Speaker 4: So in a sense, I have always said.
22:15
Speaker 1: That maybe open is the only I like to live
22:17
Speaker 1: an open life where you flow and go with your
22:22
Speaker 1: own gut, your own feeling, and all the other considerations
22:25
Speaker 1: of people and humans will automatically be there. But that
22:28
Speaker 1: has to be your call for you to decide in
22:30
Speaker 1: that moment what you want to do, and not an
22:33
Speaker 1: imposition that comes from a contractual agreement of a relationship.
22:37
Speaker 3: I totally agree.
22:38
Speaker 2: I feel like in a world where there wasn't so
22:42
Speaker 2: much projected on you from such a young age about
22:45
Speaker 2: who you're supposed to be sexually. You're supposed to be heterosexual,
22:48
Speaker 2: you're supposed to be an orgamist, you're supposed to be cisgender,
22:52
Speaker 2: I think our ideas of gender, sexuality, and relationship structures
22:55
Speaker 2: would be much more fluid. I'd go so far as
22:58
Speaker 2: to say everyone would be on a spectrum exactly.
23:02
Speaker 1: And I feel like that already exists, you know that
23:04
Speaker 1: we just need to like hold it all in.
23:08
Speaker 4: Yeah. And I also don't.
23:09
Speaker 1: Believe, like when I say, I don't think any one
23:12
Speaker 1: thing is for everybody. I understand why monogamy works for
23:15
Speaker 1: some people's that's a construct that you've chosen.
23:17
Speaker 4: That is totally fine.
23:19
Speaker 1: So this is another thing that people assume that just
23:21
Speaker 1: because I am this way, that I am propagating that
23:23
Speaker 1: is the best way to be.
23:24
Speaker 4: No, not at all.
23:25
Speaker 1: I don't think there is any one way for everyone
23:27
Speaker 1: to be, not in any department of life, not for health,
23:30
Speaker 1: not for sex, not for relationships, not for you know,
23:33
Speaker 1: the choices you make success, this, that, and the other.
23:35
Speaker 1: Nothing so in that sense, this is But what I
23:38
Speaker 1: do believe is that one thing that is lacking largely
23:42
Speaker 1: is honesty and an ability to realize that you get
23:47
Speaker 1: to shape your relationship the way you want to. If
23:49
Speaker 1: you're in a monogamous situation, that's what you choose. You
23:53
Speaker 1: can still define your relationship the way you want to
23:58
Speaker 1: and allow for it to keep shifting into and keep
24:00
Speaker 1: coming back to the table to have a discussion, that's all,
24:03
Speaker 1: you know, and to not make that bigger than it
24:07
Speaker 1: needs to be, you know, because two people are constantly
24:09
Speaker 1: evolving in a relationship and you kind of want to
24:12
Speaker 1: be able to give space for that evolution but also
24:15
Speaker 1: find ways to merge back.
24:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I feel like I keep learning about myself
24:22
Speaker 2: through through the course of my life. My own ideas
24:25
Speaker 2: of who I am have shifted.
24:29
Speaker 4: They should be.
24:29
Speaker 1: Allowed, absolutely, and which is why I keep saying, this
24:32
Speaker 1: is who I am today. If I naturally arrive at
24:35
Speaker 1: feeling a sense of monogamy with somebody, sure, I'm totally
24:38
Speaker 1: open to that. That is why I say I'm open.
24:41
Speaker 1: I'm open to flow whichever way I'm naturally feeling in
24:46
Speaker 1: that moment, you know, with the people in my life,
24:49
Speaker 1: with my life, with my choices, with the other things
24:51
Speaker 1: in my life. So that's essentially, you know, how I
24:55
Speaker 1: would be able to define it.
24:57
Speaker 4: I suppose I love that.
24:58
Speaker 3: I live in open li Yeah, okay, let's bust some myths.
25:03
Speaker 2: We had a little segment of myth passing around polyamory,
25:07
Speaker 2: we and some other things. But you can tell me
25:10
Speaker 2: where your take on, whether you agree, disagree, or somewhere
25:13
Speaker 2: in between. I think I know that you're not going
25:17
Speaker 2: to agree with this one. But anyway, myth number one,
25:20
Speaker 2: polyamory is only about sex.
25:22
Speaker 3: There's no real love involved.
25:25
Speaker 1: Well that's of course no, because the word gives it away,
25:28
Speaker 1: you know, because amory was the whole term was made
25:32
Speaker 1: for people that saw it more as an emotional engagement
25:37
Speaker 1: with other people, a kind of relationship building with other people.
25:40
Speaker 1: So even though of course these are all terms and
25:43
Speaker 1: people do it differently, but polyamory is specifically is actually
25:47
Speaker 1: about having multiple relationships and those are committed spaces with
25:51
Speaker 1: people that you have.
25:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, okay. Myth number two, only the rich or
25:56
Speaker 2: privileged can be polyamorous.
25:59
Speaker 1: I mean, if you want to go into the intellectual
26:01
Speaker 1: part of it and somebody actually coming out and saying it, yes, maybe,
26:04
Speaker 1: but I don't think in living an actuality it's prevalent
26:09
Speaker 1: and has been prevalent always beyond just relationships. I think
26:12
Speaker 1: everybody is polyamorous, because, like I said, there is the
26:15
Speaker 1: romanticness that people have with their children, with their friends,
26:19
Speaker 1: with the you know, with their siblings.
26:23
Speaker 3: Isn't finite, It's fine.
26:24
Speaker 1: It is, and that in the relationship we do live
26:27
Speaker 1: those relationships out almost like romantic relationships as well in
26:31
Speaker 1: moments of time. So I do believe everybody is essentially polyamorous.
26:36
Speaker 3: I tend to agree.
26:38
Speaker 2: And finally, women have naturally lower libidos than men.
26:44
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean cannot I'm an anomaly then, so,
26:49
Speaker 1: and I know enough other people which is it's this
26:51
Speaker 1: is not true. I think it's it's probably something that
26:54
Speaker 1: has not found expression as much from women. And also
26:58
Speaker 1: maybe for a long perio of time women had not
27:02
Speaker 1: there will yeah, and they also didn't have an orgasm
27:05
Speaker 1: and didn't know. And maybe with time we've come into
27:08
Speaker 1: a generation which is much more aware, much more open,
27:11
Speaker 1: has had the ability and the scope to explore sexuality
27:15
Speaker 1: in a different way, and so I think we talk
27:18
Speaker 1: about it more and it's come more to the forefront.
27:20
Speaker 1: But I don't think I mean, even if you look
27:22
Speaker 1: at literature and and and cinema, I mean, it only
27:25
Speaker 1: speaks of exuding sexuality in a lot of women. So
27:28
Speaker 1: it's not like that has that you know, libydo has not.
27:32
Speaker 1: It's not a gender thing at all.
27:33
Speaker 3: I actually think like women's loss.
27:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, the biology of it that you know, you
27:40
Speaker 1: can just come, there's some kind of like fatigue at
27:44
Speaker 1: the end of an ejaculation.
27:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that Unfortunately, women's sexuality has just been
27:49
Speaker 2: so conditioned that the control and also if sex is
27:53
Speaker 2: not pleasurable, why would you want?
27:55
Speaker 4: Why would you want to do it? Exactly?
27:56
Speaker 3: I'm angry. I'm not going to eat dog food no
27:59
Speaker 3: matter how I am. Okay, I wanted.
28:03
Speaker 2: Okay, you know, yeah, okay, okay, those were the myths,
28:08
Speaker 2: those were the mets.
28:10
Speaker 3: You know what I wanted to ask you about. Also
28:12
Speaker 3: because I loved it so much, was that what a series?
28:16
Speaker 3: The skin series?
28:17
Speaker 4: Yes, so beautiful, Yeah, yes.
28:21
Speaker 2: Photographer and Seanna has these beautiful images.
28:25
Speaker 3: We try and pop some on the screen, in her skin,
28:30
Speaker 3: in her birthday suit. Yes, okay, tell me about that.
28:32
Speaker 4: You know, it's it's something again.
28:34
Speaker 1: I've always been comfortable with my body in that sense,
28:38
Speaker 1: and I've always found it beautiful. Like you were saying,
28:40
Speaker 1: I grew up with this beautiful image of Modiglianny in
28:43
Speaker 1: my house and I used to draw it because I
28:46
Speaker 1: found it so stunning. It was just a half body
28:49
Speaker 1: of a woman naked lying on you know, reclining, and
28:53
Speaker 1: I always had this fascination with the with the naked
28:57
Speaker 1: but and of course all sculpture, everything from in art
29:01
Speaker 1: has so much nakedness in it, and I find the
29:03
Speaker 1: form very beautiful. So from sketching myself to photographing myself,
29:09
Speaker 1: I've always been into that aspect of nakedness and you know,
29:14
Speaker 1: capturing that in a sense. And with Tiana, I saw
29:18
Speaker 1: the series that she'd done and she photographed a lot
29:20
Speaker 1: of my friends, and I had just kind of commented
29:23
Speaker 1: on how amazing it is. And then maybe a few
29:26
Speaker 1: weeks later, at some point she said, I know this
29:27
Speaker 1: is really random and we don't know each other, but
29:29
Speaker 1: can I photograph you? And I said, this is so silly.
29:31
Speaker 1: I should have asked. I already thought I should have
29:33
Speaker 1: asked you that, but I kind of second guessed myself
29:36
Speaker 1: and didn't, And I'm glad that you asked.
29:38
Speaker 4: Yes.
29:38
Speaker 1: Of course I would love for it, because she shoots
29:40
Speaker 1: a natural light and in a you know, with the
29:44
Speaker 1: whole point is to see you in your own house
29:46
Speaker 1: in that space. And I was very happy again, like
29:50
Speaker 1: I said that, it was when we shared it and
29:54
Speaker 1: put it up and.
29:56
Speaker 4: It's obvious that I'm naked.
29:59
Speaker 1: That there was very little, again objectionable commentary on it,
30:04
Speaker 1: and largely an appreciation of the beauty of the image
30:09
Speaker 1: of an essence of me coming out of an honesty
30:12
Speaker 1: of that, you know, the vibe and the energy. So
30:16
Speaker 1: I was again, I'm happy that that's the kind of
30:19
Speaker 1: that's the kind of following or people that have kind
30:23
Speaker 1: of flocked towards me over the years that they understand
30:28
Speaker 1: the essence of who I am. They are not just
30:29
Speaker 1: following me because I'm an actor, but because they understand
30:32
Speaker 1: the essence of who I am. I've also put images
30:34
Speaker 1: of my own breast and things up at one point,
30:38
Speaker 1: which of course Instagram.
30:39
Speaker 3: Instagram must have taken down.
30:40
Speaker 1: I had took it down in one and a half hours,
30:42
Speaker 1: but I had enough exchange and commentary and people saying,
30:45
Speaker 1: don't you know you did a great thing and it
30:48
Speaker 1: was beautiful, it was amazing. But yes, this thing was
30:51
Speaker 1: a really fun, lovely shoot and it was literally in
30:56
Speaker 1: my skin and I was underslept, came back partying from
30:59
Speaker 1: somewhere and like didn't even wash my face and like
31:02
Speaker 1: just went went with it and like we did it
31:06
Speaker 1: in you know, a couple of hours, and she's a
31:08
Speaker 1: fantastic photographer and she's got a great eye and like
31:12
Speaker 1: I said, it was all short.
31:15
Speaker 3: So nice.
31:16
Speaker 2: No, And there is something to feeling seen right in
31:19
Speaker 2: a positive way.
31:20
Speaker 3: I think feeling seen.
31:21
Speaker 2: For me is very fulfilling, Like it is one thing
31:25
Speaker 2: to just be, but it's also wonderful when I can
31:28
Speaker 2: be and be seen being.
31:30
Speaker 3: And I think in a way.
31:32
Speaker 2: Like what a photograph is such a literal sort of
31:36
Speaker 2: like tangible moment of being seen.
31:40
Speaker 3: And it felt like in those images you were being
31:43
Speaker 3: you were seen.
31:44
Speaker 2: And then as a viewer you get to enjoy in
31:46
Speaker 2: that moment of like because you know, if you're feeling
31:51
Speaker 2: feel that right, it's a pleasure that's that's someone being
31:54
Speaker 2: seen and ye feel seen but it's in some small.
31:57
Speaker 4: Way because you absolutely.
31:59
Speaker 2: You know, connect to the image. So yeah, I really
32:02
Speaker 2: really loved those images. Yeah, they're really great, and I
32:04
Speaker 2: feel like people I almost think it's an exercise, even
32:07
Speaker 2: with a lover or somebody you trust, like taking for
32:10
Speaker 2: having like a naked photo shore, even if you can't
32:13
Speaker 2: get a professional, even if Tiana can't photograph everybody.
32:15
Speaker 4: Everybody should have that experience.
32:17
Speaker 2: I do.
32:17
Speaker 1: There's something really nice about being able to feel comfortable
32:20
Speaker 1: in your own skin. Seeh I'm one of those I
32:23
Speaker 1: would want the world to be naked, you know. I mean,
32:26
Speaker 1: clothes should be optional, but largely people should just be
32:29
Speaker 1: comfortable being naked and just be naked everywhere. That's this
32:33
Speaker 1: whole thing around body and.
32:35
Speaker 2: You know, and you know it sounds radical, but like
32:38
Speaker 2: indigenous tribes and things like that, clothing was a colonial
32:41
Speaker 2: in position. Absolutely just saying you know, yeah, we're not
32:45
Speaker 2: the crazy ones.
32:47
Speaker 4: No.
32:47
Speaker 1: But it's also like denying such a huge part of
32:50
Speaker 1: your own self to yourself.
32:52
Speaker 4: I feel like, how can you.
32:56
Speaker 1: When you reject it because of external reasons, you're rejecting
32:59
Speaker 1: it for yourself as well. It's not like people who
33:02
Speaker 1: are awkward and conscious of their body, are able to
33:05
Speaker 1: like really like have fun with their body alone.
33:08
Speaker 4: They're not because that that mindset is still.
33:11
Speaker 1: There when you're by yourself, that judgment is always there.
33:15
Speaker 4: So that therefore, I feel like.
33:16
Speaker 1: It's important to ease people up to you know, to
33:20
Speaker 1: feel good in your body, to feel beautiful in your body,
33:24
Speaker 1: to feel sensual in your body, to feel ugly also
33:27
Speaker 1: in your body, it doesn't matter, that's also an experience.
33:29
Speaker 4: Some day will feel like that, some other.
33:31
Speaker 1: Day will feel differently, But just the ease of the
33:34
Speaker 1: fact that, yeah, it's.
33:35
Speaker 4: A body, you know.
33:36
Speaker 1: It's like how people always say when you get nervous,
33:38
Speaker 1: just imagine everybody naked, because that's just a reality.
33:41
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, totally.
33:43
Speaker 2: I do think that, at least for me, it has
33:45
Speaker 2: been a journey. I feel so much more comfortable in
33:47
Speaker 2: my skin in my thirties than I did in my twenties,
33:50
Speaker 2: even though even with a supportive family, and yeah, like
33:53
Speaker 2: it's still a personal course. And I actually have to
33:57
Speaker 2: say that having partners really celebrated me and my body
34:02
Speaker 2: and my being and made me feel like just this sublime,
34:05
Speaker 2: sublime being they loved and accepted and exactly that they
34:09
Speaker 2: wouldn't change a thing was quite also a valuable part
34:13
Speaker 2: of that journey. But you also bring that to it.
34:16
Speaker 2: It's a two way street, you know. I've also had that.
34:18
Speaker 1: I feel like in all my sexual exchanges, I've actually
34:22
Speaker 1: felt really beautiful, really empowered, not just by them, but
34:27
Speaker 1: that's the energy that I also bring and that gets
34:30
Speaker 1: reflected back to me in a sense. But but it is.
34:34
Speaker 4: It is a really nice.
34:35
Speaker 1: Feeling to feel completely free, completely uh, in your in
34:40
Speaker 1: your sensual and sexual power, you know, in in not
34:44
Speaker 1: from a domination space, but from a space of feeling
34:47
Speaker 1: full and feeling seen, like you said, by yourself more
34:51
Speaker 1: than anything else, like experiencing yourself and your own fullness.
34:54
Speaker 4: You know.
34:55
Speaker 2: Tell me what are some of the things that you
34:58
Speaker 2: haven't yet explore or that might I mean, not that
35:02
Speaker 2: anyone needs a bucket list.
35:03
Speaker 3: I'm just saying, like, at this stage in your.
35:05
Speaker 2: Life, are there certain desires or curiosities or just aspects
35:11
Speaker 2: of yourself that you feel you haven't yet explored and
35:14
Speaker 2: would like to.
35:16
Speaker 1: I mean, I think there are things that I would
35:20
Speaker 1: be like ship ship the tying stuff, I mean, because
35:24
Speaker 1: it's such a it's such a like it's a it's
35:30
Speaker 1: it's a whole experience, and there's so much of this,
35:33
Speaker 1: like people learning how to do it, teaching how to
35:34
Speaker 1: do it as I mean it would. It's something I'm like,
35:37
Speaker 1: oh okay, fine, Sure. There are certain things where I'm like,
35:40
Speaker 1: it's more than my own desire.
35:42
Speaker 4: It's like a curiosity.
35:44
Speaker 1: I think even dating apps I explored like that because
35:47
Speaker 1: in my natural scheme of things, I don't need it.
35:50
Speaker 4: You know, I come.
35:51
Speaker 1: Across people, I prefer the kind of natural exchange. Like
35:55
Speaker 1: I said, I'm not ever really seeking something out in
35:57
Speaker 1: that sense consciously at least, so I don't have that desire.
36:01
Speaker 1: But I did it as an as an extension of
36:04
Speaker 1: learning a different medium, you know why not, So in
36:08
Speaker 1: from that curiosity place, yeah, I I think maybe that
36:11
Speaker 1: was something that I would try or most other things
36:16
Speaker 1: I've kind of had an experience of, even uh, whether
36:21
Speaker 1: it's threesomes or even like a two partners together or
36:30
Speaker 1: I mean I haven't done something like a kit Cat
36:32
Speaker 1: uh you know kit Cat club in Berlin, which is
36:36
Speaker 1: a I mean any of these like sexual clubs and
36:39
Speaker 1: things that would be interesting. I have got a uniuss.
36:41
Speaker 1: I mean I've done quite a bit actually, yeah, so
36:43
Speaker 1: I would be open to anything else that shows up
36:46
Speaker 1: that is within that realm as well. And and when
36:49
Speaker 1: I say that realm, I include everything because, like I said,
36:51
Speaker 1: the union message is much more therapeutic, emotional healing space,
36:56
Speaker 1: and much as it sounds like something sexy and whatever,
37:00
Speaker 1: it's not really experienced like that, so it's different. But yeah,
37:04
Speaker 1: I'm kind of open to things. I don't have maybe
37:07
Speaker 1: a bucket list, but I'm open to things that might
37:11
Speaker 1: show up.
37:11
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think it's nice to have a spirit of
37:15
Speaker 2: a curiosity, adventure, exploration, openness and play.
37:19
Speaker 3: You know.
37:20
Speaker 2: I love the idea of as adults retaining colding arms
37:24
Speaker 2: and really protecting your ability to play and for there
37:29
Speaker 2: to be a sort of joy that's not transactional or
37:34
Speaker 2: burdened by expectations.
37:36
Speaker 3: It's just like it's joy together.
37:39
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so that would be maybe even Like I
37:44
Speaker 1: have a tendency to be more in the flow, and
37:47
Speaker 1: that can sometimes make me be one way. So I
37:51
Speaker 1: think it would be interesting to be more playful in
37:54
Speaker 1: terms of exploring things more from a space of wanting
37:57
Speaker 1: to explore, you know, whether it's a king more intentional
38:00
Speaker 1: to me, whether it's a kink, whether it is even
38:03
Speaker 1: like talking during sex for me doesn't come naturally.
38:06
Speaker 4: Okay, I'm more in the fields.
38:08
Speaker 1: So but then it's something that I would like to
38:10
Speaker 1: play with, Like it's a space. Like you said, it's
38:13
Speaker 1: a canvas that I would enjoy intentionally playing with as well.
38:19
Speaker 3: I like that.
38:20
Speaker 2: I do see that sometimes I might try something and
38:24
Speaker 2: surprise myself that was yeah.
38:27
Speaker 4: Exactly, why didn't I try this earlier?
38:30
Speaker 3: Why didn't I try this sooner?
38:31
Speaker 4: Okay?
38:32
Speaker 2: As we bring this very hot and sexy, fun conversation
38:36
Speaker 2: to an end, is there any advice or sort of
38:42
Speaker 2: reflections that maybe you wish someone had shared with you
38:46
Speaker 2: when you were younger. A lot of a lot of
38:48
Speaker 2: young women, I think, might you know still struggle with
38:53
Speaker 2: I mean I as a young woman, I struggle with
38:55
Speaker 2: feeling comfortable in my skin, feeling like I could be
38:58
Speaker 2: completely honest about my desires. I definitely shrunk myself. I
39:02
Speaker 2: definitely downplayed many aspects of the like the extent of yes,
39:09
Speaker 2: my sexuality, my relationship to sex, all of that. So
39:14
Speaker 2: is there any like, what what can we leave our
39:16
Speaker 2: listeners with today that might that they might be able
39:18
Speaker 2: to take with them into their lives.
39:20
Speaker 1: I just feel like, you know, we have to breaking
39:23
Speaker 1: our our vulnerability down with someone becomes important. That becomes
39:30
Speaker 1: like when I was young, I think things that I
39:33
Speaker 1: was conscious of that I was holding back on or
39:36
Speaker 1: scared to share or feeling ashamed of in some sense,
39:41
Speaker 1: in whatever manner, I would put it out there, you know,
39:44
Speaker 1: with with my close friends.
39:46
Speaker 4: So I think it's.
39:46
Speaker 1: Important to be able to kind of find those people
39:49
Speaker 1: that are close to that way you can share it all.
39:52
Speaker 1: I mean, it could or even be a therapist, it
39:54
Speaker 1: could be anybody. But to find a place or even
39:57
Speaker 1: with yourself journal, you know, to be able to say
40:00
Speaker 1: it out loud ones and if there is someone to.
40:03
Speaker 4: Reflect on with it. Usually you will always find people saying, oh, yeah,
40:08
Speaker 4: that's normal, I feel it too. Oh do you feel
40:10
Speaker 4: it too? Oh great, I feel it too.
40:11
Speaker 1: So it becomes sharing always becomes a space of like
40:15
Speaker 1: an exponential comfort formation, you know, for a lot of people.
40:20
Speaker 4: So I feel like that and a normalizing for a
40:23
Speaker 4: lot of people. So that I think is very important.
40:26
Speaker 1: Everything that you feel you're the only one experiencing, You're never.
40:29
Speaker 4: The only one experiencing it. Everybody's experiencing it.
40:32
Speaker 1: So one should have that confidence and faith to be
40:35
Speaker 1: able to even at the cost of maybe maybe in
40:38
Speaker 1: one situation somebody will judge you somebody, But it's a
40:41
Speaker 1: good practice to be able to put your s put
40:43
Speaker 1: your feelings and your vulnerability out there.
40:46
Speaker 4: You know it'll it will.
40:48
Speaker 1: Build and grow a community of people and energies that
40:52
Speaker 1: kind of will help hold you and help you be
40:55
Speaker 1: able to kind of work through that.
40:57
Speaker 3: I love that. Really.
40:59
Speaker 2: I hope we can all do whatever we can to
41:02
Speaker 2: make each other feel seen exactly.
41:04
Speaker 1: That is also the other thing I think we should
41:06
Speaker 1: also help other people feel seen, which is also why
41:09
Speaker 1: I like talking about my life, because it becomes an
41:11
Speaker 1: opportunity for people to then talk about their lives absolutely,
41:14
Speaker 1: and that's very important.
41:16
Speaker 2: You strike a match and it's like, yeah, suddenly that's
41:20
Speaker 2: what I felt in my work as well.
41:22
Speaker 3: Yeah, So thank.
41:23
Speaker 4: You, thank you for doing this, thank you, thank you.
41:26
Speaker 2: For everything you do, and thank you for tuning in
41:29
Speaker 2: today to Love Matters. Love Matters is produced by The
41:32
Speaker 2: Indian Express and DW. If you'd like to write into us,
41:35
Speaker 2: do write to us at Lovematters at DW dot com.
41:37
Speaker 3: Make sure you like, share, subscribe, all that good stuff and.
41:41
Speaker 2: Send this episode to someone who deserves to feel seen.
41:44
Speaker 3: We will see you next time.