Latest / The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast / Are You Ready to Be a Guide by the Side and Coach Others?

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Are You Ready to Be a Guide by the Side and Coach Others? · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Hey friend, if you listened to last week's episode, you know my original plans for a mini-series got a little thwarted.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: But as usual, God's got it.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's really kind of him that I am still going to get to stick with my theme of talking a little bit more about the four roles we play.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: The victim, the villain, the hero, and the guide.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: Today's episode is going to focus a little bit more on the guide, which I love talking about.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I was so honored that last year, Tyler Zack invited me to speak at his summit about the whole-hearted journey and what it looks like to be a guide by the side.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: Now, if you didn't know, in 2023, I ended up forming a program for coaches to mentor and equip them on how to build a sustainable business that they actually loved.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: And not only did we work on the business side of things, but we also took care of each other's hearts.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: Fifteen amazing women got certified in the wholehearted coaching process and they got training and resources that they needed to do presentations for small and large groups in both nonprofit and large corporation settings.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: Now, one of the terms I often use in my training and coaching is that my coaches need to think of themselves as a guide by the side.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: I don't believe that we are meant to be another person's hero.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: Instead, we get the privilege of guiding someone else to be a hero in their story.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, the guide also points to the most perfect hero and the most perfect guide, Jesus Christ.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: So, what's a guide by the side and how do you find one or become one?
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'll explain all of that and more during this conversation with Tyler Zach.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: Hello and welcome to the Simply Wholehearted Podcast.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Amy Wicks, your wholehearted living coach.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm so glad that you stopped by to spend some time with me.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: Are you curious about the Enneagram?
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to learn biblical truths?
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: And have you wondered if there are life rhythms that will help you thrive?
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: Well, friend, then you are in the right place.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: For six years, this podcast has focused on sharing conversations with my friends about life, business, motherhood, faith, and all things Enneagram from a Christian perspective.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: I truly understand what it's like to juggle everything as a wife, mom to three teenagers, a pup, and all while building a growing business.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: And friend, I haven't always done things with clarity, peace, or joy.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: But still, the Lord has taken my broken-hearted pieces and healed them so I can live with whole-hearted rhythms to provide women like you with a step-by-step process so you can get free of anxiety, shame, and frustrations that might be holding you back from thriving.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: I pray that the Lord speaks to you as you listen today and that you would invite your friends and family to join the fun conversations.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: Are you ready to laugh a little and learn a whole lot?
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: Alrighty, let's get to the conversation.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: Are you an Enneagram enthusiast who wants to impact the lives of others with the Enneagram?
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: If you want to learn more about coaching others, either informally or formally, or you are already an Enneagram coach, then you're gonna love this interview.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: With me today to talk about Enneagram coaching, specifically titled Be a Guide by the Side, not a Sage on the Stage.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: I love that title, is Amy Wicks.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: It is great to have you with me today, Amy.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Tyler.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I totally stole that fun saying, but you know what?
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: It applies perfectly for this conversation today.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thanks so much for taking the time to join me on the summit.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: Tell us first, how did you come to know the Enigram and when?
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: I have always been a personality nerd.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: I totally thought it was so much fun when my parents came home from some sort of pastoral training conference, and they were talking about Gary Smalley's animals, like this animal personality thing.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: And we were hearing, are you a beaver, an otter, a lion, a golden retriever?
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: And immediately I just thought, what?
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: You mean like there's things to talk about what we're doing and a label for it or a name for it.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: And to the point of like, oh, not everyone does this the same things I do.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: And this is why.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: So it really started early on.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: And from that, then I went to an internship that focused on the DIST test.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so I dove into the DIS world and then quickly became Myers Brig, which I love the Myers Briggs, but admittedly, it's very confusing to me.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I have to be reading it in order to sound intelligent and talking about it because I mix up the order of the letters and all of that.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, I I just didn't have I was mistyped, or you know, every time I took the test, it my letters changed and it was hard for me to nail down, you know.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: So much um, I don't know, more consistent and deeper and yeah.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: And again, to your point, like all of those were super fun and interesting, but they talked about the outward motivation.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: And when I stumbled upon the Enneagram, the way people were talking about it was it was rooted in a desire, motivation, how God wired you, not really what you were doing per se.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: And it did impact, but uh as we now know and how we can articulate it is it describes our focus of attention.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: And that was a different nuance for me as I engaged in the typology system at first.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: I had already really been in the online space, online business for a while and pursuing some different things that look like discipleship basically in the four walls of my home, but certainly outside of it and doing a lot of work with fellow moms and moms who were feeling frustrated about how motherhood was looking on them compared to their friends or their sisters.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: And to me, not only did I have the other typologies to give them language that, hey, you just are wired differently and you do things differently.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: But when the Enneagram came in to me, I felt like this was a guidebook to help women really uh embrace the beauty of how they're wired and not feel shame around it, but then also avoid the pitfalls that they were continuing to repeat, that as someone who was doing discipleship and mentorship, the same patterns of behavior that they were experiencing or the emotional struggles, the Enneagram gave language to that.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I quickly began to utilize that on a because I'm an enthusiast, I wanted to share it with everyone and the power and the impact that it had had in my life.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I wanted to share it with everyone.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of was like a slow roll, and yet at the same time, it makes perfect sense that I would be doing what I'm doing now.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: Love it.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: Love it.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, you are a great coach and you, you know, sometimes people and when I'm unhealthy as a three, I can sort of teach the Enneagram and give information.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: But I love just having known you for a little bit now, hearing about how you're bringing women along with you, and you're uh you're really not using it selfishly, because we can use the Enneagram selfishly and just get navel gazing, but you're like, how can I help these women to see their potential, to help them to take risks and being entrepreneurs and business leaders, of playing a role in the local church when sometimes the more assertive types, like we talked about, aren't as as welcome or their voices aren't as welcome, or their gifts aren't as appreciated.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I just love what you're doing and love that it sort of takes us into our topic today of other people who are willing to coach or coach with the Ennegram.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, but first, is there anything else that any other ways the Ennegram has transformed your life?
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: Any other ways that gets you excited about the Enneagram, either your marriage, your children?
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: What other ways have you found it helpful or useful?
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe the better question is how has it not helped me?
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think that it has really touched every facet of my life over the years of using it in a way that it has bettered my relationship with the Lord.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: To your point, I was recently talking with someone about this too, how it has been such a gift for me as a woman in the church who grew up in the church and did um ministry over the years.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: I've struggled with finding my place as an assertive person and someone who had many ideas and multi-passionate and who wasn't the quiet, dutiful type.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: And when I started learning about the Enneagram and my personality type, there was so much uh relief and freedom that I found going, oh, this is how God made me.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: There's not something wrong because that was my inclination to feel like, why am I this way?
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: And why can't I fit in with what the norm or the stereotypical is?
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: And what used to frustrate me, I've learned to embrace.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, that has then also led me to look at the what are the weaknesses, what are the ways that I don't finish or follow through, or I follow every idea instead of focusing on what the Lord has put before me.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: And within within my uh marriage, my husband's a nine, I'm a seven, and there were so many different sticking points for us early on that if I had known the Enneagram, ooh, man, it would have saved us a lot of heartache and headache.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: And now it births compassion, understanding, it provides a common language, it helps me let go of things that are not important and to focus on the things that are important and to know how to communicate in a way that is way more life-giving and beneficial.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: And then for parenting, holy cow, I have teenagers.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what I would do without the Enneagram at this point.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: It is, it is saving my hide and helping me love my kids in a way that they can better receive it.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: And do I do it perfectly?
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: No, not at all.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: But I'll tell you what, it is just it has helped me understand the lens they're looking through and why the certain pain points that I have come, you know, come in my motherhood and going, oh yeah, okay, this is connected to my motivation, my heart's desire, my longing, my vice, all those different things.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I can, I can, when I can identify those, it helps me get to a place where I can remedy it with the Holy Spirit and move to such a healthier place without the shame, without the condemnation, without the anxiety of like, I've got to fix this.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's going, okay, this is what it is.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: We can name what it is.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: Now we can give it to the Lord and work, partner with the Holy Spirit.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: So we can, as you like to say, you know, work on that sniper sanctification process, get laser focused.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: I love that answer.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how is it not helped me?
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: And the teenagers, and I'm doing a series now on what it's like to be a type one child, type two child.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I love it.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, we can get unhealthy if we're typing our children too early and forcing them into a box.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: But I do wish my parents would have known the any gram.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: To pick up on some patterns that could have been like, oh, let me let me explore that with my child.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: Let me have a conversation about that.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: And seeing some patterns to see how they could have loved me, you know, uh helped me through get unstuck in childhood, you know, why I was feeling certain things with my friends.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: That would have been so helpful.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I found it helpful for my sons as well.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: I think uh my youngest is a type eight, and my oldest is a counterphobic six.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: So wow, yes.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: So lots of energy, lots of toughness.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I've caught myself now saying to my youngest, Zeke, um, who's also on the autism spectrum, I I found myself saying, You're being too loud, you know.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I've caught myself thinking, I don't want him to be hearing those words as he's growing up as an eight, of thinking people just think I'm too loud, people think I'm too much, my father thinks I'm too much.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I so I have to I catch myself thinking, okay, I gotta really encourage him to be him and to bring his full energy and never let that be a bad thing.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's just like one small thing that I've caught recently.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's it's helpful if you know the Enneagram to be able to know how you might be hurting them unintentionally or holding them back.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, and my youngest son being the six, super helpful.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: He always, you know, if he catches me like on a text message at the stoplight or something, he's like, Dad, put your phone away.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, because it's all about safety and security.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it's been so helpful.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: And to your point, I recently did a solo episode teaching about communication with your teens using the Enneagram.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: Oh.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: And it's my sneaky way of how do you utilize it with you're you're not necessarily going to type your kids, and your kids may not be ready for the typing conversation.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's a whole nother process, right?
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: And they have to be the right age.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's utilizing the communication styles to better understand how do you step into their story without creating the narrative that they're too much or not enough or not valuable, all those pain points that some of us are familiar with because we carry it because of the messages our parents inadvertently spoke to us.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: They didn't know, they didn't mean to.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't even there was no malintent, but it was their automatic reaction based on their maybe core fears or their experiences of us.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: So uh of course, there's like so much to to offer than a little episode can give or what we can share today.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: But when we begin to really utilize it for ourselves and understand it, then we can take that information and begin to apply it to our relationships in a way that really can be edifying.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: Agree with all of that.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's well said.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: So going back to the topic today, be a guide by the side, not a sage on the stage.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: What how did you how did you come to that?
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like what what is that what does that title mean to you?
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it actually came from a good friend, CJ Music.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: She talked about a professor of hers used to say this saying.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: And we were dissecting that because we were a group of coaches at a retreat doing a mastermind together and really talking about what does it look like to authentically connect with people that we were created to help and to support.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I have often said, I and I like to clarify, I technically like the word sage because sage to me represents wisdom and maturity and age, right?
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: But there is something that makes that feel inaccessible, right?
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like lofty and high.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: And oh, I can never go ask them a question because they don't have time for me.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: Now, in this really unique, nuanced online, busy, fast-paced world, there can be that moment that we as individuals can't answer all the things to all the people.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: But it was the idea of as we step into coaching relationships with the people.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: We are, I feel like it's a long road walker, someone who is willing to keep their hand open and help guide you, someone who's just a couple of steps ahead of you, not dragging you along, but pulling you along in a way that continues to guide you along the steps that are your next possible thing to do.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I I love the just the concept.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: Instead of it being uh a coach being someone who's the guru, you are the one who's walking alongside of them.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: And you don't know everything, but you might be a few steps ahead in the direction that they want to go.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's really important as well to be thinking through who is the guide that I want in my life, who do I want to glean from and get information?
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: We can start collecting gurus and have too many of them and we're getting too much information and not really taking action.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so we think we should be thoughtful and wise and selective about who's speaking into our lives that has impact.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: And also that we only have a few of them, so it can make impact and we focus on where we really want to go.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we and I know in the in the Bible you it speaks of having, you know, gurus essentially, but not many are spiritual fathers and mothers, and in in today's podcast world.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: Even now with all these great speakers, there are gurus, like people who know their stuff.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but that's different than having a personal guide in your life to move you forward.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I I know that I can read a ton of Enneagram books, and I know uh quite a bit about the Enneagram now after reading many, many books.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but that's different than having somebody hold me accountable and somebody take me by the hand, help me set goals and then move forward in life.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like all of us need a guide.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: And and you said that you learned more about this idea from Donald Miller, right?
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, can you talk a little bit more about that?
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I have a feeling that you have appreciated Donald Miller's work as much as I have over the years.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: He's really a prolific writer and an amazing businessman.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'm always like when something new comes down the pike from him, I'm like, holy cow, this guy is on fire.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I he's a three, so you know, nod to you threes, you know what you're doing.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: I read Blue Like Jazz back in the day when he was in his 20s.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 18:12
  unknown: Yes.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: I remember staying at uh Village Inn or IHOP, one of the two, and just reading his book all night long, just being so enamored with it.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: And then just kind of lost touch as he got into the business world.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: He became very like a business coach and leader, and so I just kind of lost track, but then circled back around to read Hero on a Mission, uh, which you told me about.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: And that is actually the book that changed my life direction.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not over exaggerating, uh, because I was reading that book on my sabbatical.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: So after my ninth year of pastoring, uh, I was looking back and thinking, man, my family life has just been so difficult this past decade with our youngest being on the autism spectrum.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just hard being a pastor's wife in general.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: And then you throw in special needs, and to think I have not helped Lindsay get the boys ready and get to church in nine years.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's just been, I always have to leave early in the morning.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm, you know, working all Sunday.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's just been a really rough decade for her spiritually because she's always, you know, having to watch our boys, take care of our boys, we're uh you know, work with Zeke's issues that come up.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, whenever we're in a small group, I'm usually helping lead.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so she has to be the one to take our boys out.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: So she just it's been a really rough, rough time.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: And Donald Miller, you know, in his book, he says, Hey, you need to write your eulogy.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and think about, okay, you have this many years left.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: What do you want the next few decades to look like?
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: What do you want to accomplish?
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: And as I was turning 40, you know, the next year, as I was on my sabbatical last year, and thought, man, I'm trying as I'm turning 40 here, uh, I really got to show up for my family.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: Uh specifically as a three who's a workaholic, I really got to make sure that this is a different decade, that my family's flourishing, that I'm flourishing.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: And and so I've already started writing book Ennegram books and and loving the Enneagram and coaching.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I said, you know what, rather than waiting, let's just make that decision right now uh to leave full-time pastoral ministry and help tutor my son to two days a week so that Lindsay can substitute, teach, and get out of the house, create some space, interact with teachers because she's a six-wing seven extrovert.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: She just loves being around people.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so she loves dressing up and and sort of getting out of the house at times.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so now we're partnering uh with tutoring him, and I get to stay home and do more of what I love to do uh with any gram.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so that book, though, was really the catalyst that pushed all this forward.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm really thankful for coaches like that that can coach us to make hard but good big life decisions.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, Tyler, of course you've done that.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: And what example to you have to model after for now, not everyone can necessarily choose that to like take work home and to make that pivot, but you did that obviously out of the Holy Spirit's leading.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that the Lord used a book.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: And the book is called Hero on a Mission, and it's one of Donald Miller's latest.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think he's come out with a new one since then.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: But I had read it because I do really enjoy his uh business writing.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: And it was just like, oh yeah, of course I'm gonna read this.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: But what I loved is how it defined things in a way that I could better articulate the coaching process.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: And what was really beautiful is Brian Lee was um at my summit last year.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: We were specifically focused on the topic about church hurt, uh, spiritual abuse and of that nature.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: And he applied it so beautifully to the conversation in a way that I won't fully recap here by any stretch, but what What I want to do in illustrating and kind of giving you the cliff notes, if you will, of part of this book is to give the understanding of what I really call the whole-hearted journey, to get the full picture of what does it look like to go from brokenhearted to wholehearted in Christ and then beyond, because there is something beyond.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: So Donald Miller in his book, he talks about the four characters that we find in every single story.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: And to your point, probably everything here that our friends will remember in our conversation is the story, right?
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: The story of you stepping out of church leadership to help your wife and your boys or my silly stories about how I learned the Enneagram.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: So we're just we're made for story.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: That's how God wired us.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: And a story gets inside of us and it can change us.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: And to your point, you read a book that changed your life.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: But the four characters that we see repeated in any good story, I think, you know, clarify good story.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: There's the victim, the villain, the hero, and the guide.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: And today we're going to focus on the guide story.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to focus on that again because we're talking about being the guide by the side.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: What does that look like?
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: What does that mean?
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: And to summarize, and I'll tell you some more about the different roles, but we're going to focus on the guide story because they are ultimately actively living as the beloved child of God.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that's what you and I are in the work of doing and conveying and helping our clients and our groups and our leadership teams.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: The guide is a healthy brother or sister in Christ.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: And what I love the most is that they reveal the father's heart to others.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: Therefore, they're kind of living this lifestyle of adopting others.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: And adoption is a huge thing in my heart.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I always thought it was going to be in the traditional sense.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I see how the Lord has brought me to the place where, oh no, He has different ways of adoption.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I get to participate in that.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: So that is why I want to focus on the guide story.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: Now, to define really quick, if you haven't read the book, of course, we highly recommend it.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: These are going to feel familiar.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: So pay attention if you can.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: Stop multitasking, tune in for a second and identify the different characters.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: So the victim takes a passive role in the story.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: They typically have this mindset that life happens to me.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: I just was a victim of my circumstances.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: I had zero control, zero say over how the story played out, right?
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then the villain, the victim becomes the villain when the victim takes a fork in the road, usually the one that's mostly traveled, and they take their brokenhearted moment.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: And instead of going to healing and help, they repeat their history of hurt.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: And in other words, that phrase that gets thrown around a lot of hurt people, hurt people.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: Well, this is how it comes about.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: That hurt person, that victim, keeps going down this path of living as life happens to them instead of having some say over their story.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: And they just live out this brokenness that hurts others.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: Now, on the flip side, we have the hero.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: We love the hero.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: We're cheering for the hero.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: We're rooting for the hero.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: We want to be the hero.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: And the thing is, if you look at any good story, that hero was once the victim.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: They were the one who was beat down and downtrodden, except for when they met that fork in the road, they took the one less traveled.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: They didn't become the villain and continue to hurt others.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: They decided to get up and go forward and keep going forward, usually with the support of the guide.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: So now this is the fun part, right?
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: The last figure, the biggest champion of the hero, and they're typically the unsung hero of the story.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: And they really could have been the hero, but they decided to keep going and growing.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's really important to note.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like the hero isn't the end of the story.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: They kept going and they growing and they experienced things that the hero had not come across yet.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: And they tell others, hey, hey, why don't you come on this road less traveled?
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to help you.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I always like to think of my favorite heroes.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: You might have a few to add here, Tyler.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, like Yoda or Obi-Wan in Star Wars, right?
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I think of, for those who are maybe fan of Anna Green Gables, Mrs.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: Allen or Miss Stacy.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and another silly one is Victor Maling in Miss Congeniality, which he was the one who helped her be beautified and confident.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know how about you?
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have any great hero or guides that um you've enjoyed watching in the hero story?
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: No, those are good.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just thinking of real people in my life right now.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, like my first disciple maker, which, you know, it's good to be able to take language that we've heard in church the church world and now overlay that onto like with this language of guide.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I think this this whole language is really helpful because you can be a disciple maker in church who sees disciple making as impart as being a guru, as imparting knowledge through a Sunday school class.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: Or uh you can be a wounded disciple maker who is continually hurting other people if they're not if you're not self-aware uh and you know growing yourself.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: But that's just a thought I had as we were as you were talking.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: But I I think of like Demerick, who was my guide.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: He had been a fraternity guy in college, came to Christ, and then he met me while I was in a fraternity, and so he was able to guide me of what it looked like to follow Jesus in a fraternity because he had been there before doing the same thing.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so he was a really helpful guide.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: And then I got guys like Todd, who's a campus minister, who helped me with premarital and walking with in that stage of life, and just countless other guides who have taken me under their wing.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: And uh so appreciative of that.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't be here without guides taking the initiative to um not just grow themselves, but to help me grow and be in my life.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: So yes.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: I love that you have that list of uh, you know, people that throughout your history, right?
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: Those are not the people that are on stage with you necessarily or that those watching would know about otherwise.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: They have been the guide by the side and they're the unsung hero, right?
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: And yet they are exactly why you are here today, which what a beautiful role to play.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't think that it oftentimes gets the credit and the value that it is, because I think that again, the heart behind being a guide, or again, my wholehearted guide.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: I love to throw in the wholeheartedness is when you live a lifestyle of adopting others and you're showing the father's heart.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, we talked about a little bit.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: I used to not be able to find my place in the church.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: And what did that look like?
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there wasn't a specific role, but to your point, it was discipleship.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: And when I began to see the value and the worth of the discipleship, it I didn't need to be the person on stage.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't need to be the person writing the book or the curriculum or leading the thing, even though that's my bent and my wiring, there can be just as much beauty, if not even more, when I was the person willing to pour in my experience in a way that showed that person the father's heart.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: So um And if I could just say something here to what you just said.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: I think coming out of church ministry and coming out of uh being a pastor and seeing how dynamics are in church, uh I think there's a lot of, you know, 30-year-olds, but in particular people in their 40s and 50s and 60s, who really don't have never seen themselves as a disciple maker or a guide, or maybe they think that they're not competent enough, or they, you know, don't meet the perfect disciple maker role uh or guide role.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I just want to, you know, and I'm sure you're actually coaching um many people in this life stage, but just just to see yourself as a guide.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: Uh that, you know, even if you don't feel like you fit the mold, if you don't feel like you have much to offer, and you have tons of life experience.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so I know as a pastor, I've always tried to champion uh people who are in their second half of life, especially to go grab somebody who's younger and to be a guide for them because you have so much to offer, even if you don't think you do.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's huge.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad you said that because years ago when I was leading a mom's group and I actually began to write different curriculums for them and things of just trying to share.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: And at one point, I was like, why do you want to do this group?
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: What's the value?
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I just figured it was because I had food and inexpensive babysitting, and we could just all be together in my house.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: And as conversations evolved, there was ultimately a I we called it motherlessness that they felt.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: And what I would liken that too is feeling orphaned and somewhat abandoned.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes for some of them, it meant their mom was physically gone.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: But often it was just not emotionally available or spiritually unavailable.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: And to that point, I want to say is the hunger there, the reason why they were there is they were just looking for someone to guide them who was a couple of steps ahead of them that said they can do this, that they'll survive this, that this is maybe how you just one little simple change could make your life easier, or just to have some hope that it is possible for them to love their life as they were seeing it, you know, as they were looking into the future.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: So uh that was the the hunger and the message again and again of like I just feel alone and I need a little help and support.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so I would echo that sentiment of there's so much value, every person who has been through any sort of transformation process to offer.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: You don't know, have to know everything.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the thing, right?
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: Guru makes us feel like we have to know it all.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: But if we're just a guide, well, okay, let me just maybe even read the map for you.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: You don't even have to know exactly where they're going.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: You just have to help them get there and be a support system.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's as simply it's as simple as coming along someone and teaching them what you know.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: And if you just spend 90% talking about your failures and the things that you've learned from, yeah, like that's teaching someone.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: Even if you're like, okay, that's don't do this in marriage.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: Don't do this.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this is what I've experienced.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that is so helpful.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: That is being a guide.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: Uh a guru, just pretend to have it all together.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: Here's the five things you need to know.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, like we don't need that.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: We need somebody who's gonna be vulnerable and uh share their lives with us.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, uh one thing that I thought of when we're talking about you know, victim and hero, and one of the things I read in Donald Miller's book was there's so many churches and so many leaders who present themselves as the hero.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and that actually is counterproductive because there's you're creating that separation.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you're doing a church website, for example, and you can go on a church website and this the subtext is we are the hero.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like we are the best church in the city.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: So come to us because we are the hero.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: And that's different than creating a church website where you position yourself of, hey, we care about you and what you're going through in your life and your marriage, and we care about your kids, and we're gonna help you thrive.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's a different mentality.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: And you look at a lot of people on social media, you know, you look at different coaches or writers, and it is like look at me, I'm the hero.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: And that just is counterproductive because then people think, well, I can never be like this author, I can never be like this leader, and it just keeps him stuck versus leaders who are so like Jesus, who we'll talk more about in a little bit.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: Jesus was very self-sacrificial and gave you know, died to his desires to help these disciples move along, to being some of the best leaders of the world has ever seen in the first century.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so even though he is the hero, he helped people go from zero to hero themselves in their walk.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: So yes, I wholeheartedly believe that if we're not positioning ourselves as the hero or the guru, we do, we can help more people that way because we point to what is possible.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_01: Because just pointing to the heroeship, there's something of that that speaks like we have to do it ourselves, or that it's all up to you, and that it rests on your shoulders.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: Then that's the whole point of being the guide is just showing that we're always growing and going forward and and moving on, right?
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: Until we're seeing the Lord's face to face.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: There's always more room to grow.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I have to say, I've I've experienced so much fruit in my relationship with guiding others when I have been transparent and vulnerable, when I have uh definitely, you know, it's not sharing all my things, right?
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's a time and a place, and there's a group of people who know all the things, but there's a time and a place to just be like, I'm human, I struggle, I don't have it always together.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: Am I the ideal seven version?
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: No, heck no.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: These are the places where I still get stuck and caught up, but I'm participating with the Holy Spirit and the Lord and the Word of God to continue to grow and you know, walk in a way that is more edifying to the body of Christ and just for sure my family.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: So there's there is that point of like when we just like that is so important to just see of like positioning yourself as a hero, I don't think in the end is what provides the transformation or the adoptive spirit that we want to offer within the body of Christ.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, in the Bible, we see Jesus saying, it's better for for you that I go because I'm gonna give you the Holy Spirit to be your guide, your counselor, your power.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: And that to be Christian is to, yeah, again, not try to be the hero, but to help people live in the power of the Holy Spirit.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: And that's totally different.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_00: It takes a totally different approach.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it relieves the, like we said, it leaves relieves the pressure of feeling like, okay, if I want to coach others with the Enneagram, if I want to be like Amy and and help other people, all I gotta do is just love people and be vulnerable and be willing to share my failures and be in their lives.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, that makes it easier to go coach versus feeling like you have to know and be a guru, uh, doesn't it?
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: And to your point, I love always going back to the word of God and going, okay, how did Jesus do it?
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: What did he do?
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: What did being a guide or being a coach how did that example when he had his time on earth?
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so, of course, because you know, we're gonna talk about Enneagram, I have nine ways that Jesus showed how to be a great guide or a really good coach.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not gonna give a Bible reference, I'm going to step in, believing that you probably have a good idea of where I'm going or what uh passages I'm even referencing when I'm talking about this.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm excited to listen.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for sharing and and thanks for contextualizing it, but not making it seven, but uh but nine.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_00: So it's an Enneagram talk.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: So good.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: So these are nine different ways, of course, more than that, because Jesus was unlimited, fully God, fully human.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so first of all, when he was uh especially with his disciples, but even within the crowd, he directed people to the truth and provided clarity for those who asked, right?
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: For those who asked, very key thing.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, second, he used affirming.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: Wait, you're okay.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: I just I just caught that you're are you correlating these with each number?
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I am.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know why I didn't think about that before, but I was like, oh, yeah, type ones, they need clarity.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_00: They oh, okay.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: I get your different views.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a little slower today.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: A little nod.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: So a little wink wink would be as you listen to these, you can see how you reflect Jesus in how you would guide and coach people.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, the goal is to exercise all of these aspects, right?
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_01: We were made in the image of God, so we can participate in all of these, but we might lean into one more than the other of strength.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: So for sure I see that for me.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yes, for one, directed people to truth and provided clarity for those who asked.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_01: Two, the he used affirming and supportive words as people stepped out in faith, yet he was going to be there to help if they faltered.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_01: Three, he loved helping others experience victory without needing the credit or to have a sense that there was significance in his role.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_01: Four, he was the leader of authentic relationships and willing to sit with others in pain.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_01: Five, he challenged the status quo and asked questions that made people think for themselves.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_01: I love that one, especially for some reason.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: Six, he trusted that his heavenly father was working in the lives that he was leading, and it wasn't up to him alone to see change happen.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_01: Seven, Jesus celebrated the victories, the transformation, and the healing.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_01: And he liked to take breaks for quality time with his people.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_01: Think about his 12 in particular.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_01: Eight, Jesus asked direct and open questions, open-ended, right?
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_01: He wasn't just telling them, he used curiosity while he would also validate the injustices of the time or even of the law.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_01: And nine, he was a calm and steady presence when everyone else was panicking.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_01: And his words, the powerful words that he would speak, brought peace.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_01: So, like that's pretty remarkable.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_01: I want that kind of coach for sure.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love that.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_00: For anyone wanting to be a guide in someone else's life or coach, an Engram coach, uh, or just a parent who needs to coach their kids, you know, we as we read through the scriptures, we're inspired by Jesus' leadership.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_00: But I love how this clarifies and breaks down some things that we can see in each of these types.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_00: And for me in particular, number three, loved helping others experience victory without needing credit to know the significance of his role.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_00: That is so humbling to see that.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: I love this list.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what about type the seventh one?
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: How does that resonate with you?
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_00: So celebrated the victories, the transformation, and the healing.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: He'd like to take breaks for quality time with his people.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, how does that uh resonate with you?
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_01: I think one of the skill sets that I offer or in being a guide is that I'm able to, because I get this like front row seat, but I'm not in the messy middle.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_01: Whenever we get to meet, usually it's like every two weeks or so, I get to go, wow, look at what has happened.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm looking at the notes and the questions that you had or the things you were wondering from our last time together.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm going, now look at the answers that you have or the progress you've made.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I love celebrating that because as a people in general, especially as Americans, there's like always more to do or things to achieve.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_01: I love the invitation, inviting people back to like, let's see what God has done.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think I can write a whole book about celebration as it relates to the word of God and the invitation that there is for God's people to celebrate.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_01: But I think because I like to, you know, champion the fun and the positive, and where I get to grow as a seven is to sit with people a little bit longer.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe it's the whole session that I don't celebrate, but I just sit with people in what is hard and maybe even terrible in the moment seems hopeless.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so I've been learning to exercise these different elements because I have that available through the power of the Holy Spirit to offer others as I guide them.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_01: But I do like the fun aspect, especially getting to do retreats with other coaches.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_01: And then that's the like stepping away and being with my people.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, yeah, this is awesome.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_00: That's amazing.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_00: Well, man, it's been an awesome, fun conversation, Amy.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_00: I knew it would be with a type seven like yourself.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yay! Well, friend, I hope you enjoyed that episode.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_01: I did share a lot about myself that I don't typically do on my own podcast.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe you learned something new about me, even if you've been a listener for seven years, or maybe you just finally got to hear it all together.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Ultimately, I want you to ask yourself, am I ready to be a guide?
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_01: Friend, I have another resource covering five questions that I typically ask someone on a call to help them discern if they're ready to be a guide by the side.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's very simple, and I'll link to the video where you can hear those questions for yourself in just a few minutes and even download some additional helpful resources.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: And friend, just as I was about to hit record, another thought came to my mind, and this might be for you.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_01: Here's the thing.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_01: Oftentimes we want the perfect setting, the perfect situation, and the perfect timing to all align so that way we can do the thing that we're really excited about doing, or the really big step that we want to do, we just want all the things to line up exactly right.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_01: But here's the deal.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_01: Just like recording this message for you today, if I waited for the perfect timing, setting, and situation and environment to be just right, I would never record it.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_01: With dinner barely in the oven, a room full of teenagers, and a lot of packing and laundry that I need to do tonight, it doesn't feel like the perfect timing to record this message for you.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_01: But you know what?
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_01: I had a moment and I needed to seize that moment.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: And that is what it looks like sometimes when it's time for you to jump in and be obedient to the Lord's nudging and perhaps consider being a guide by the side.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know if that message was for you, but maybe it was for a friend, and so you can send this episode to them.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_01: If you want more information about being a guide or even my wholehearted mentorship, you can check out simplywolehearted.com and get the free resources if my mentorship isn't open right now.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_01: Or you can always email me and I'd love to answer your questions.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_01: All right, friend, I've got more goodness for you right here next week.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_01: Until then, continue to pursue God's perspective, purpose, and plans for your simply wholehearted life.