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Disability and Ability · Why We Do What We Do

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Speaker 1: You're listening to Why we do what we do. Welcome
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Speaker 1: to why we do what we do. I am your
0:19
Speaker 1: impressed with the ingenuity of people with impairments Hosts Abraham.
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Speaker 2: And I'm your here for further advancement to improve the
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Speaker 2: lives of folks by improving society host Shane.
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Speaker 1: Yeah you are. We are a psychology podcast. We talk
0:35
Speaker 1: about the things that humans and non human animals do,
0:39
Speaker 1: and as you can tell, we like to assign a
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Speaker 1: qualitative title to ourselves at the beginning of these full
0:45
Speaker 1: length discussions, and those titles are somewhat related to our
0:48
Speaker 1: topic at hand. Actually they're very related, but we do
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Speaker 1: our best to make them work, and sometimes they're long winded,
0:54
Speaker 1: but that's not what you wanted to hear. You're here
0:56
Speaker 1: for the good stuff. If you're joining us for the
0:58
Speaker 1: first time, welcome. We hope you enjoy here today. We
1:01
Speaker 1: are currently recording a suite of episodes of which this
1:05
Speaker 1: is probably like the penultimate. I think we got maybe
1:07
Speaker 1: one more after this, where we're talking about disability and ability,
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Speaker 1: well and accessibility. For the most part, those have been
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Speaker 1: the topics, so we've addressed many topics around the topics
1:18
Speaker 1: of disability and we'll probably do more of those again
1:22
Speaker 1: in the future, but for the time being, we wanted
1:24
Speaker 1: to just spend several episodes discussing these things, and I
1:27
Speaker 1: feel like I've learned a lot. I have enjoyed these discussions.
1:31
Speaker 1: It's been a cool ride. So always bettersweet to see
1:34
Speaker 1: a thing come to a close, but I also I'm
1:37
Speaker 1: excited to get talking about other topics that we've been
1:40
Speaker 1: thinking about and wondering about and need and have things
1:43
Speaker 1: to say.
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Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, so it's been it's been a good time.
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Speaker 2: So we're really excited for I mean, we're excited that
1:49
Speaker 2: we're able to get this out. We're excited to wrap
1:50
Speaker 2: it up and move into some other topics as well,
1:53
Speaker 2: and then eventually maybe even decide on the next suite
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Speaker 2: of episodes that you're gonna hear from us.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, I did have an idea for one, but I
2:01
Speaker 1: don't know if we want to do that that quickly anyway,
2:03
Speaker 1: So we're just gonna go ahead and move forward with
2:05
Speaker 1: this today. If you would like to support us, and
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Speaker 1: you haven't already, you can subscribe, you can like however
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Speaker 1: you're listening to this, you can join us on Patreon.
2:13
Speaker 1: You can leave a rating and review you can tell
2:16
Speaker 1: a friend. I'll talk more about those things at the
2:18
Speaker 1: end of this discussion. But this episode publishes on December seventeenth,
2:23
Speaker 1: which means Happy clean Air Day. Yay.
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Speaker 2: It's also International Data and Violence against sex Workers.
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Speaker 1: Oh one hundred percent, so agree, yes, and like violence
2:34
Speaker 1: against everyone, but that is a particularly vulnerable population, so yes,
2:38
Speaker 1: very much agree. All right. It is National Maple Syrup Day.
2:42
Speaker 2: It certainly is. It is Pan American Aviation Day.
2:46
Speaker 1: That's where you send Americans and pans through the sky.
2:49
Speaker 2: Yes, okay.
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Speaker 1: Relatedly, it is right Brothers Day, and that's the wright right, yes, yes,
2:57
Speaker 1: it is not the wrong Brothers.
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Speaker 2: Thank you for planes. It is I mean, I guess,
3:01
Speaker 2: depending on lots of things. It is Christmas bird count Week.
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Speaker 1: Oh, that's right. We should talk about that sometime. That's
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Speaker 1: like a whole thing. A lot of people do it.
3:09
Speaker 1: I feel like as I get older, a hobby a
3:12
Speaker 1: might fall into is birding, because I really like birds.
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Speaker 2: Birds are great. They're weird.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, and they are weird and they're so lovely and delightful.
3:20
Speaker 1: It is Cookie Exchange Week.
3:23
Speaker 2: I love that it is. We are in the throes
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Speaker 2: of Hanukkah. I believe at the time of this recording,
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Speaker 2: this will be day three, okay, because it begins on
3:31
Speaker 2: December at the time this recording, it's actually today is
3:34
Speaker 2: it's just December fourteen, So today is the first night
3:37
Speaker 2: of Hanukkah. So by the time you all hear this,
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Speaker 2: it will be day three.
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Speaker 1: Okay, very good. It is Human Rights Week.
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Speaker 2: Yes it is, and it's Saturnalia or Saturnalia.
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Speaker 1: And we are probably coming up on some other big holidays.
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Speaker 1: I don't know. We'll figure it out when we get there,
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Speaker 1: but that's sure. That's that's what we have for now.
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Speaker 1: But of course you did not join us to listen
4:00
Speaker 1: to us talk about the holidays, or maybe you did.
4:02
Speaker 1: Maybe that's why you're here. Maybe you just listen for
4:04
Speaker 1: the holidays and then you stop listening and move on.
4:07
Speaker 1: And I guess however you listen, Thanks for being here.
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Speaker 1: We appreciate it either way. Yes, I think are ready
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Speaker 1: to jump into our topic at hand. Do you have
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Speaker 1: anything else to add before we start?
4:15
Speaker 2: Uh? No, I think we're ready to go.
4:17
Speaker 1: Okay, So we are talking about disability in a very
4:20
Speaker 1: specific context here, which is that it has to do
4:23
Speaker 1: with how we think about what impairments and disability means
4:28
Speaker 1: as it relates to people's capacity to perform certain tasks
4:32
Speaker 1: and maybe perform certain jobs. And many, if not most,
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Speaker 1: employers often see impairments as a barrier to effective performance
4:41
Speaker 1: for having people work in their particular line of business,
4:45
Speaker 1: whatever it might be, and they may be reticence to
4:48
Speaker 1: hire people with disabilities, or in some cases that we
4:51
Speaker 1: will discuss explicitly, even make policies against hiring people with
4:56
Speaker 1: disabilities all together. Yeah, not even just like discriminate on
5:00
Speaker 1: some kind of implicit bias or explicit bias, but like saying, like, no,
5:05
Speaker 1: people with impairments cannot work here, and people that is
5:09
Speaker 1: that has happened, and we're going to discuss why that
5:12
Speaker 1: is probably to their disadvantage, for both the people with
5:15
Speaker 1: disabilities and the people who would have been hiring them.
5:18
Speaker 2: Yeah. Now, the disabilities community has argued that people with
5:21
Speaker 2: disabilities may be a boon to many performances. Indeed, there
5:24
Speaker 2: are benefits of being a person with impairments, benefits for employers,
5:28
Speaker 2: and there are jobs for which disabled people may be
5:31
Speaker 2: particularly well suited. And so we're going to kind of
5:33
Speaker 2: explore that a little bit.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll discuss the overlooked advantages of including people with
5:38
Speaker 1: disabilities more often, particularly as it relates to employment spaces,
5:43
Speaker 1: but also more it has to do more I guess
5:45
Speaker 1: with like performances that you could do, and these are
5:49
Speaker 1: like all these all could be jobs. And in most
5:51
Speaker 1: cases we're talking about jobs. But I don't want to
5:54
Speaker 1: just say that, like it's only about work and capitalism.
5:57
Speaker 1: But a lot of this discussion is centered around vocation,
6:00
Speaker 1: if you will. That's sort of the angle where we're
6:03
Speaker 1: taking this. But I think that's what we have to
6:05
Speaker 1: say for our intro. Yeah, I think we're ready to
6:07
Speaker 1: jump into it.
6:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's do it. So we're going to start with
6:10
Speaker 2: the first section about benefits for employers. And again, this
6:12
Speaker 2: is one of those things where you're going to find
6:15
Speaker 2: this discussion couched in this idea that capitalism has informed
6:19
Speaker 2: so many myths about people with disabilities. And you know,
6:23
Speaker 2: we're also not saying that people with disabilities are most
6:26
Speaker 2: beneficial when they are productive in this space. That's not
6:29
Speaker 2: what we're saying.
6:29
Speaker 1: Thank you for clarifying that.
6:31
Speaker 2: We want to kind of like dispel the myth that
6:33
Speaker 2: people with disabilities can't engage in meaningful work activities or
6:36
Speaker 2: meaningful vocational activities, especially if they want to do those things,
6:40
Speaker 2: they and they should be included. So so what you'll
6:42
Speaker 2: find is like for benefits for employers. A common theme
6:45
Speaker 2: across multiple sources point out that people with disabilities tend
6:47
Speaker 2: to possess a higher than average level of problem solving
6:50
Speaker 2: and resilience. They didn't have life experiences that require them
6:54
Speaker 2: to navigate a world more definitely than those without those impairments.
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Speaker 1: Exactly, and these lived experiences often produce an ability to
7:01
Speaker 1: do things like remain calm under pressure. They are notably
7:06
Speaker 1: very creative in navigating challenges, and so as a result,
7:11
Speaker 1: businesses that hire people with disabilities will often report increased
7:16
Speaker 1: morale amongst staff and subsequent to that, lower turnover. And
7:21
Speaker 1: this also saves businesses money, Like they aren't like hiring
7:25
Speaker 1: people as expensive training people as expensive, and if you
7:29
Speaker 1: have people who stay on longer, it is better financially
7:32
Speaker 1: for an organization, and hiring people with disabilities often results
7:36
Speaker 1: in lower turnover and therefore more sustainability for the finances
7:41
Speaker 1: of that business.
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Speaker 2: Yeah. Now, the increased morale in part comes from the
7:44
Speaker 2: fact that supporting people disabilities creates positive work environment which
7:47
Speaker 2: employees feel supported. This can create loyalty and desire to
7:51
Speaker 2: excel at their jobs and stick with them longer. I
7:53
Speaker 2: know that I have worked at places before I got
7:57
Speaker 2: into behavior analysis and stuff like that, work to places
7:59
Speaker 2: that would sifically work with local programs and get and
8:02
Speaker 2: get folks with disabilities hired, and it was the best
8:04
Speaker 2: they were. They were so great to work with, and
8:07
Speaker 2: everybody at work felt happier as a result of it.
8:10
Speaker 1: I read it in some places, like the diverse perspectives,
8:13
Speaker 1: like people who have those lived experiences, just the diversity
8:16
Speaker 1: that they bring to the team. It builds resilience, and
8:19
Speaker 1: it brings a better sense of camaraderie, and people like
8:23
Speaker 1: just learn to appreciate others better and like understand where
8:27
Speaker 1: they can be of support to one another. Like it
8:29
Speaker 1: just it just works better when they're included, and which
8:33
Speaker 1: is largely a part of like DEI efforts were a
8:36
Speaker 1: large push to get them included more, although I do
8:39
Speaker 1: think that they were sometimes left out of those efforts,
8:41
Speaker 1: as they were not always thought of as much in
8:44
Speaker 1: the inclusion piece as they probably should have been. Right,
8:47
Speaker 1: But anyway, that that is a thing that was noted
8:50
Speaker 1: is that exact thing. There are also reports that we
8:53
Speaker 1: saw and there was like clear data actually showing this
8:55
Speaker 1: that hiring people with disabilities can increase productivity. And although
9:01
Speaker 1: I think employers might hear this and think like they
9:03
Speaker 1: might have to adjust their training and they're hiring procedures,
9:06
Speaker 1: they might have to build in more accommodations and accessibility supports,
9:11
Speaker 1: and those are an investment. But they do have to
9:15
Speaker 1: spend money to accommodate onboarding and building an accessible workplace
9:20
Speaker 1: for people who might have some kind of impairment. But
9:22
Speaker 1: the data actually show that the long term financial benefits
9:26
Speaker 1: of doing this outweigh the initial costs of making those changes.
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Speaker 2: Right, it's important that the companies must invest in the
9:34
Speaker 2: infrastructure if the place is not already accessible, and they
9:37
Speaker 2: you have to do that to ensure that they're disabled
9:38
Speaker 2: and all employees are supported and accommodated as needed, and
9:42
Speaker 2: not just hire them and expect them to work in
9:43
Speaker 2: an accessible environment. Now, this is where universal accessibility protocols
9:48
Speaker 2: and things like that, some of the stuff that we
9:49
Speaker 2: talked about before is going to be really beneficial. Is
9:51
Speaker 2: if your organization is already doing that, then this won't
9:53
Speaker 2: be a problem for you when you hire folks in
9:56
Speaker 2: those spaces, So you know, just kind of get ahead
9:58
Speaker 2: of it if you are if you are just trying
10:00
Speaker 2: to be an inclusive organization.
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Speaker 1: Well, and as we'll discuss and a as we've already said,
10:06
Speaker 1: like just like improving morale, reducing turnover, and creasing productivity,
10:10
Speaker 1: those are some of the benefits you get by investing
10:12
Speaker 1: in this. So it's like if you start, if you
10:14
Speaker 1: aren't already accessible, and you start investing in that now,
10:18
Speaker 1: then you will ability to onboard people with impairments will
10:21
Speaker 1: be improved, which will streamline that, which will then streamline
10:24
Speaker 1: your access to greater productivity, less turnover, and higher morale.
10:28
Speaker 1: So it's like it's just worth it. It's just worth
10:30
Speaker 1: it to do it. Another benefit to employers, since that's
10:34
Speaker 1: kind of a topic we're on at the moment, is
10:37
Speaker 1: that there are, or at least there have been. I
10:40
Speaker 1: don't know if any of these have been axed, but
10:42
Speaker 1: it wouldn't surprise me if they were. There were some
10:44
Speaker 1: tax incentives for hiring people at disabilities. There's the Work
10:49
Speaker 1: Opportunity Tax Credit or WotC, which I'm really hoping they
10:53
Speaker 1: pronounces what yes, and there's also the Disabilities Access Credit
10:58
Speaker 1: or DAC, which again I'm hoping they've pronounced duck walk
11:03
Speaker 1: in duct Yeah what and duck. Anyway, the last one
11:08
Speaker 1: grants deductions tax deductions for companies when they hire people
11:12
Speaker 1: with disabilities, although they are only for smaller companies for
11:15
Speaker 1: that last one. But anyway, those are some of the
11:17
Speaker 1: things that do exist to help support employers with making
11:20
Speaker 1: the decision to onboard staff with impairments.
11:24
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, I mean, and you know, I think one
11:26
Speaker 2: of the things for employers is like when they hear
11:28
Speaker 2: the term tax deduction, that ultimately is something that they
11:31
Speaker 2: may look for as benefit. Now, as an organization ourselves,
11:33
Speaker 2: we don't get tax deductions for ads, but we still
11:36
Speaker 2: have to play them. All right, So we are talking
11:46
Speaker 2: about this idea of disability and ability in the workspace,
11:50
Speaker 2: and specifically we're talking about benefits to employees or employers.
11:53
Speaker 2: I should say, yeah, yeah, And so we're gonna keep
11:55
Speaker 2: going through some of those benefits. Now, many point out
11:58
Speaker 2: that people with disabilities often lude many talented, creative, competent,
12:01
Speaker 2: and well trained individuals that would be valuable contributions to
12:04
Speaker 2: the workforce, but are unfortunately overlooked because of their disability
12:07
Speaker 2: and the perception that it may be too difficult to accommodate. Therefore,
12:11
Speaker 2: employers may be missing opportunities to recruit high quality candidates.
12:15
Speaker 1: And from a profit driven perspective. Advocates also pointed out that,
12:19
Speaker 1: as we've mentioned in other episodes and we'll say it
12:22
Speaker 1: again here, approximately a quarter of the population has some
12:25
Speaker 1: sort of disability. That's a lot, that's like a gigantic
12:30
Speaker 1: amount of the population. And when businesses hire people that
12:35
Speaker 1: have these sorts of impairments, it creates a workforce that
12:39
Speaker 1: is also more representative and relatable to the broader population
12:43
Speaker 1: because so many every one in four people who engage
12:47
Speaker 1: with that business has likely to have some kind of impairment.
12:50
Speaker 1: And the argument is that creating this representation creates a
12:54
Speaker 1: business environment that can more effectively address the needs of
12:58
Speaker 1: other people who have impairments and disabilities, and so that
13:02
Speaker 1: people might be more likely to choose their consumer behaviors,
13:07
Speaker 1: might be more oriented toward those businesses, or they see
13:10
Speaker 1: people who have the same or or they have a
13:13
Speaker 1: pairments as well, maybe the same impairments or not, but
13:16
Speaker 1: they like that this is a place. Who gets who
13:19
Speaker 1: gets what I need because they already have people who
13:22
Speaker 1: are like me in this space, right and so there
13:26
Speaker 1: not only is there this like the things we mentioned,
13:29
Speaker 1: the reduced turnover and the higher productivity and all of that,
13:32
Speaker 1: but you also have now an expanding customer base. So
13:37
Speaker 1: when win win, win, win.
13:39
Speaker 2: So many wins. So these are not just hypothetical arguments
13:42
Speaker 2: assumed by advocates either. So there are scientific evidence to
13:45
Speaker 2: back up these claims that we just made. So in
13:47
Speaker 2: a twenty eighteen article by Lindsay Cagliostro, Alberico Mortagi, and
13:52
Speaker 2: Caron in the Journal of Occupational Rehabilitation, they conducted a
13:55
Speaker 2: systematic review of studies published on the effects of hiring
13:58
Speaker 2: people with disabilities. The data that they had aggregated from
14:01
Speaker 2: thirty nine other studies found that hiring people with disabilities
14:04
Speaker 2: results in a lot of benefits, including improvements of profitability
14:09
Speaker 2: cost effectiveness that it is cost effective to hire people disabilities,
14:13
Speaker 2: higher retention or less turnover of employees, increased reliability and punctuality,
14:18
Speaker 2: company loyalty, an improved company image, and an increased competitive
14:22
Speaker 2: advantages from a diverse customer.
14:24
Speaker 1: Base, including improved customer loyalty and satisfaction more innovations, higher productivity,
14:32
Speaker 1: greater work ethic, and improved safety as well. That was
14:37
Speaker 1: all stuff that they found based on published peer reviewed
14:40
Speaker 1: research suggesting that there are a lot of positives that
14:44
Speaker 1: come from these that is backed up by the data.
14:46
Speaker 1: Like when we look at these businesses, when they crunch
14:48
Speaker 1: the numbers, that's what they see. It's not just this
14:51
Speaker 1: pipe dream that we're saying, like hire people with disabilities
14:54
Speaker 1: because it's so wonderful. It's like it actually like the
14:57
Speaker 1: money backs it up, Like right, the scion is there
15:00
Speaker 1: and there's and it just means that, like the financial
15:04
Speaker 1: stability of companies is improved by having a more diverse
15:08
Speaker 1: workforce that includes people with impairments and disabilities. Absolutely, that's
15:12
Speaker 1: all important, you know, thinking about like why it's important
15:15
Speaker 1: for employers to be considering employees who have impairments or disabilities.
15:20
Speaker 1: And that's one perspective to consider. But another here is
15:24
Speaker 1: thinking about instead, not instead, but thinking about the fact
15:28
Speaker 1: that people with disabilities often come with some types of
15:31
Speaker 1: advantages you might not think of, but that make them
15:34
Speaker 1: really great candidates for certain job positions and performances that
15:39
Speaker 1: I think, again they're just overlooked. It's not considered that
15:42
Speaker 1: they have so much to offer and contribute, and that
15:44
Speaker 1: their disabilities actually give them a lived experience that makes
15:47
Speaker 1: them really good candidates for these jobs. So let's discuss
15:51
Speaker 1: some of the major advantages here that people with disabilities
15:55
Speaker 1: or impairments may have that make them great candidates for
15:58
Speaker 1: various job performances and tasks.
16:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, so, despite reservations some employers may have specifically that
16:05
Speaker 2: they may have about hiring disabled people, this population actually
16:08
Speaker 2: has may have some unique competitive advantages that have been overlooked.
16:11
Speaker 2: So as an example, a twenty twenty four article from
16:14
Speaker 2: the London Business School aggregated data from interviews and case studies,
16:18
Speaker 2: hilariously starts with this article that starts with quote, most
16:21
Speaker 2: companies today realize the value of DEI and just you know,
16:26
Speaker 2: it's just so funny. They used to appreciate the value
16:29
Speaker 2: of DEI. Now they'd rather shoot themselves in the foot
16:32
Speaker 2: for political expediency that rather than reap the benefits of
16:35
Speaker 2: embracing diversity. So anyway, the authors point out that people
16:39
Speaker 2: with disabilities may offer unique talents and qualifications that make
16:42
Speaker 2: them more well suited for jobs than you might think,
16:44
Speaker 2: even more than people without disabilities.
16:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly right. And the way that I sort of
16:49
Speaker 1: wrote that down I think was hard to navigate. I
16:52
Speaker 1: felt like maybe how it was in a flow state
16:54
Speaker 1: of mind. But yeah, the article from the London Business
16:57
Speaker 1: School essentially was was showing that and want to talk
17:00
Speaker 1: about what they had to say, but they were specifically
17:02
Speaker 1: saying that there are all these advantages that people with
17:06
Speaker 1: disabilities may bring to the table.
17:08
Speaker 2: Yeah.
17:08
Speaker 1: I just thought it was funny that it started with
17:10
Speaker 1: the like, there's this value in de EI. I'm like, yeah,
17:13
Speaker 1: there is, but at least in the United States. I mean,
17:17
Speaker 1: this is London, but I'm like, the United States doesn't
17:18
Speaker 1: recognize it, and they're trying to put more pressure on
17:21
Speaker 1: other people not to recognize it. And again it's to
17:23
Speaker 1: their own disadvantage, Like this lack of DAEI initiatives is
17:27
Speaker 1: just to their disadvantage. It DEI improves things, right, shutting
17:32
Speaker 1: it down makes things worse. Right. So anyway, moving through that,
17:37
Speaker 1: talking about this article, they give the example that routine,
17:42
Speaker 1: repetitive tasks may be dreadfully boring for some people. You
17:46
Speaker 1: think of those tasks, that's like you kind of do
17:48
Speaker 1: the same monotonous thing over and over and over and
17:50
Speaker 1: over and over again. Sure, and that can be really hard.
17:53
Speaker 1: Like a lot of people struggle with that kind of
17:55
Speaker 1: work performance that might be required or asked of them.
17:59
Speaker 1: But some neurodivergent people actually excel at those type of tasks.
18:04
Speaker 1: They may prefer those type of tasks that consist of
18:07
Speaker 1: repetition and routine, and they've actually specifically shown that they're
18:11
Speaker 1: able to maintain their focus for extended periods of time.
18:15
Speaker 1: And just like, why are some people, by you know,
18:17
Speaker 1: twenty minutes or thirty minutes of doing the same task
18:20
Speaker 1: have sort of checked out and are like, just like,
18:21
Speaker 1: please get me out of here. Some neurodivergent people who
18:24
Speaker 1: prefer that sort of thing, like they could just grind
18:26
Speaker 1: on that task for like hours and not get fatigued
18:29
Speaker 1: and actually feel very comfortable and at home in a
18:32
Speaker 1: situation where they're like I love this, like I like
18:34
Speaker 1: doing the routine tasks like this is much am right,
18:37
Speaker 1: And because they enjoy doing that, they maintain a higher
18:40
Speaker 1: level of focus, they maintain a higher level of quality
18:42
Speaker 1: of their work as they're going. They also pointed out
18:45
Speaker 1: they are sometimes better at recognizing patterns, so like, those
18:49
Speaker 1: are some jobs that might be really well suited for
18:52
Speaker 1: some types of people who are neurodivergent, who just enjoy
18:55
Speaker 1: that sort of thing.
18:56
Speaker 2: Right, So one study questionably speculated that Alan Turing may
19:00
Speaker 2: have been autistic. Sure or not, he certainly represented an eccentric,
19:04
Speaker 2: likely neurodivergent person who figured out how to crack the
19:07
Speaker 2: code of the Enigma machine created by the Germans in
19:10
Speaker 2: World War Two and helped turn the tide against Hitler.
19:13
Speaker 2: So super interesting stuff there.
19:15
Speaker 1: And side note, I do really love the idea that
19:18
Speaker 1: one of the types of people that Hitler was trying
19:20
Speaker 1: to wipe out, like of the species because of their
19:24
Speaker 1: polluting genes as he might call them, a gay, possibly
19:28
Speaker 1: autistic person was instrumental in his downfall. Just makes me
19:32
Speaker 1: very happy. I just I really like that a lot.
19:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, one day we should probably talk about how diversity
19:38
Speaker 2: is one of the reasons why we won World War two.
19:41
Speaker 1: That's a very good point.
19:42
Speaker 2: Like surprisingly, the amount of diversity that was required to
19:46
Speaker 2: win the war was actually like kind of an astounding thing,
19:49
Speaker 2: like a historical thing. So one day we'll talk about that.
19:52
Speaker 2: I know, I talked about the code talker and like
19:54
Speaker 2: Navajo code talking and stuff like that. And how that
19:56
Speaker 2: was like the reason that we won in the Pacific.
19:59
Speaker 1: I think that be fun, and it does now make
20:02
Speaker 1: more sense to me why the current administration would try
20:07
Speaker 1: to be getting rid of DEI because they wish that
20:10
Speaker 1: Hitler had won World War Two. Yeah, they would have
20:12
Speaker 1: preferred if we were in a world where the Nazis
20:15
Speaker 1: took over everything, and they're trying to replicate that now. Yeah,
20:19
Speaker 1: it's unfortunately, I guess it's all the dots are connecting
20:22
Speaker 1: now I'm getting.
20:23
Speaker 2: In Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now, according to one source, British
20:27
Speaker 2: intelligence may have made it a point to hire people
20:29
Speaker 2: with dyslexia who are unusually good at spotting anomalies that
20:33
Speaker 2: others might miss too. So there's some cool interesting things there,
20:36
Speaker 2: like in that higher level pattern recognition.
20:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought that was really interesting. Dyslexia in particular,
20:41
Speaker 1: they're like really good at catching anomalies. And I was like, huh,
20:44
Speaker 1: it's a really interesting outcome. I wouldn't have thought, but
20:47
Speaker 1: that's that's cool that they found that, and that that
20:50
Speaker 1: because they were opened minded enough to even look for
20:53
Speaker 1: that sort of thing. They figured it out and then
20:56
Speaker 1: put in policies to like they're like, let's hire more
20:58
Speaker 1: people with dyslexia because they're really good this right, Okay,
21:01
Speaker 1: more examples. We found this really cool example of a
21:04
Speaker 1: mall in Columbia that employs many people with impairments, and
21:07
Speaker 1: we're going to give a few examples for how they
21:09
Speaker 1: have found a lot of utility and specifically hiring and
21:13
Speaker 1: training staff who have some kind of impairments. They reported
21:16
Speaker 1: that people with physical disabilities or who use wheelchairs are
21:20
Speaker 1: impressively good at customer relations, and they tend to be
21:23
Speaker 1: able to de escalate angry situations very quickly and very easily.
21:28
Speaker 1: And so people who might come up to the customer
21:30
Speaker 1: relations and they've got a problem and they're very angry
21:33
Speaker 1: and for whatever reason, the people that are in wheelchairs
21:36
Speaker 1: or have other impairments, they're just like really good at
21:39
Speaker 1: diffusing the situation and having those people like get their
21:42
Speaker 1: problem solved and moved on and feeling happy. And they
21:45
Speaker 1: report high customer satisfaction, which I thought was just like
21:48
Speaker 1: this just really cool that that was the thing they noticed.
21:50
Speaker 1: So they specifically go out of their way to hire
21:52
Speaker 1: people who use wheelchairs or other have other impairments. Maybe
21:56
Speaker 1: they also found at this mall that they they found
21:59
Speaker 1: a lot of utility and employing deaf people to work
22:02
Speaker 1: in really noisy environments. They specifically cited like working in
22:05
Speaker 1: elevator shafts. But I imagine any environment that has like
22:09
Speaker 1: machines with a lot of worrying parts and like motors
22:12
Speaker 1: is going to be very useful here these very noisy places,
22:15
Speaker 1: because people who who aren't deaf, like they might struggle
22:19
Speaker 1: with that much noise. They might give them headaches, they
22:21
Speaker 1: might bother them, they might just like them. They're gonna
22:24
Speaker 1: have to wear ear protection. People who are already deaf,
22:26
Speaker 1: like they aren't bothered by it at all, Like they
22:28
Speaker 1: just go into that space and they just do their
22:30
Speaker 1: job and like it's no different than doing any other
22:33
Speaker 1: job because they're not battling some sense that is difficult
22:36
Speaker 1: for them. So and in particularly noisy environments, they're actually
22:39
Speaker 1: an asset because they're they're going to be so good
22:41
Speaker 1: at and and so comfortable at just tolerating the noise, right,
22:45
Speaker 1: And I think even people who are seasoned podcast listeners,
22:49
Speaker 1: they've gotten pretty comfortable at tolerating the noise of ads.
22:52
Speaker 1: Maybe okay, we're back. We've been describing some workplace advantages
23:03
Speaker 1: for people with various impairments and why that actually might
23:06
Speaker 1: make them a good fit to sort of do their job.
23:09
Speaker 2: Yeah. So another example of this is that some reports
23:12
Speaker 2: found that people were hiring security guards and wheelchairs because
23:16
Speaker 2: they were better at catching pickpockets and petty thieves because
23:19
Speaker 2: their view is more advantageously situated at eye level with
23:22
Speaker 2: people's pockets. Further, another advantage here is that people use
23:26
Speaker 2: wheelchairs or are actually often faster in their chairs than
23:29
Speaker 2: people on foot, so they may be more likely to
23:32
Speaker 2: catch people running away. And also they tend to have
23:35
Speaker 2: greater upper body strength and are therefore better at restraining
23:37
Speaker 2: people that they have captured in the event that they
23:40
Speaker 2: need to. So like some you know, potential side effects
23:42
Speaker 2: or benefits that people might not think of right away
23:45
Speaker 2: when we start talking about something like security.
23:47
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, so this whole I thought this was really fun.
23:50
Speaker 1: This idea that like someone who uses a wheelchair, because
23:53
Speaker 1: of the level at which they're sitting there, they have
23:55
Speaker 1: a better visual advantage to catching people who are pocketing
24:00
Speaker 1: things and stealing things and picking people's pockets and whatnot,
24:03
Speaker 1: I thought was really interesting. So I found this other one.
24:06
Speaker 1: There was this design studio in Spain, and they reported
24:09
Speaker 1: finding great value in hiring people with down syndrome and autism,
24:13
Speaker 1: specifically on the creative teams because and this is a
24:17
Speaker 1: direct quote from the director quote, these guys create details
24:21
Speaker 1: that are completely authentic and original end quote. And more
24:24
Speaker 1: of this article went on to describe that just like
24:26
Speaker 1: they come up with these like their ideas are just
24:28
Speaker 1: so creative and unique, and that they're a great contribution, so,
24:33
Speaker 1: you know, and this is a lot of stuff. It
24:34
Speaker 1: feels like we've been describing a lot of blue collar
24:36
Speaker 1: work and some of it kind of is that, but
24:38
Speaker 1: like these are sort of the higher level, creative, white
24:40
Speaker 1: collar jobs that they also have a lot to contribute
24:43
Speaker 1: to because these are creative people and as we mentioned before,
24:47
Speaker 1: they're resilient and they're problem solvers, which is a lot
24:49
Speaker 1: of what that kind of what that level of employment
24:52
Speaker 1: often looks like.
24:52
Speaker 2: Anyway, Yeah, and I think something that maybe we will
24:56
Speaker 2: probably come back to, and I think it's important to
24:58
Speaker 2: note is like part of the conversation is that they
25:01
Speaker 2: excel because they do bring diversity to those workplaces. The
25:04
Speaker 2: other side is that the employment places are providing opportunities
25:07
Speaker 2: for folks that they that they're maybe not getting otherwise, right, So,
25:11
Speaker 2: like it's not to say that like, oh, like you
25:13
Speaker 2: know this this particular autistic person is more creative than
25:16
Speaker 2: the other person. It's that we're saying, hey, this person
25:18
Speaker 2: is creative, and now we're giving them an opportunity because
25:22
Speaker 2: like without DEI, they're not getting the opportunity otherwise, like
25:26
Speaker 2: you know, in some of those spaces. So like that's
25:28
Speaker 2: a lot of kind of like this this piece that
25:29
Speaker 2: we're kind of getting at is like, hey, we should
25:31
Speaker 2: be actively creating these spaces to ensure that everybody is included,
25:35
Speaker 2: because you're gonna get you're gonna get more diversity, you're
25:37
Speaker 2: gonna get more you're going to get better outcomes as
25:39
Speaker 2: a result of this.
25:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, very much so so.
25:41
Speaker 2: One health insurance company apparently only hires people disabilities for
25:44
Speaker 2: their call center because their customer satisfaction ratings are so
25:48
Speaker 2: much higher when callers talk to a disabled person, even
25:51
Speaker 2: though they don't know they're talking to a disabled person.
25:53
Speaker 2: The manager explains their operators showed exceptional level of empathy
25:56
Speaker 2: and treat everyone who calls with patients respect and kindness.
26:00
Speaker 1: Which feels like a nearly impossible thing to do. Yeah,
26:02
Speaker 1: I don't know that I would be able to tolerate
26:05
Speaker 1: the situations I'd run into with some of those calls
26:08
Speaker 1: that well, so I thought that was kind of cool.
26:10
Speaker 1: You know, it's just another example of one of those things,
26:12
Speaker 1: and your point it was very valid as well. The
26:14
Speaker 1: next part here, I think. So this one was I
26:16
Speaker 1: believe featured on Radio Lab or some other big podcast
26:20
Speaker 1: or some I heard it somewhere. But for a long time,
26:24
Speaker 1: space exploration has been treated as exclusively available to only
26:29
Speaker 1: the like the archetype of perfect human form. Essentially, people
26:34
Speaker 1: have been rejected from being astronauts for being too short,
26:38
Speaker 1: being too tall, having flat feet, high blood pressure, a
26:42
Speaker 1: weak knee, color blindness, deafness, or any other physical what
26:46
Speaker 1: you might call irregularity has automatically rejected someone from being
26:52
Speaker 1: a candidate for space exploration.
26:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, and this was accepted as a simple reality of
26:57
Speaker 2: space travel. It requires physical perfection to tolerate the harshness
27:01
Speaker 2: and unfamiliarity with a non terrestrial environment. But disabled people
27:04
Speaker 2: have pointed out that the unfamiliarity of that environment from
27:07
Speaker 2: the perspective of able body people is exactly what makes
27:11
Speaker 2: them fantastic candidates for space science and expiration. I mean,
27:14
Speaker 2: I think of gatica in this scenario.
27:17
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, so, yeah, exactly right. Here's one of the
27:21
Speaker 1: arguments that they make. So I consider that in space,
27:23
Speaker 1: your legs and the strength that you maintain in your legs,
27:27
Speaker 1: if you're someone who uses your legs regularly, is essentially
27:30
Speaker 1: non existent in space, and like a zero gravity type situation,
27:34
Speaker 1: people who are used to relying on the strength of
27:36
Speaker 1: their legs are less familiar with how to navigate an
27:39
Speaker 1: environment where that strength is no longer a benefit to them, right, right,
27:43
Speaker 1: But people who use wheelchairs or canes or like walkers,
27:47
Speaker 1: they spend most of their time in this environment where
27:50
Speaker 1: they cannot really depend on their legs, and they are
27:52
Speaker 1: therefore you could think of it as being just like
27:56
Speaker 1: highly trained or very very highly experienced and now gaining
28:00
Speaker 1: environments where they don't have to depend on their legs
28:03
Speaker 1: to move around and do things like they've often have
28:05
Speaker 1: better as we mentioned before, higher upper body strength. They're
28:09
Speaker 1: used to the fact that they're moving in an environment
28:10
Speaker 1: where their legs are not the advantage, and in space
28:13
Speaker 1: like that is that environment. And there is also the
28:17
Speaker 1: situation in space that like one of the biggest concerns
28:20
Speaker 1: they have is like bone density loss, and so they'll
28:22
Speaker 1: have people exercise by putting them on a treadmill and
28:25
Speaker 1: then putting resistant bands on them to keep them pressed
28:27
Speaker 1: to the treadmill so that they can simulate run well.
28:30
Speaker 1: You wouldn't need to do that or have any kind
28:32
Speaker 1: of arrangements like that on a space station if you
28:34
Speaker 1: mostly had people up there who were wheelchair users or
28:37
Speaker 1: had limb differences where they didn't depend on the use
28:39
Speaker 1: of their legs, and that saves both time and space
28:43
Speaker 1: and money in terms of things that you're sending up
28:46
Speaker 1: on those spacecraft to try and maintain the muscle strength
28:50
Speaker 1: of limbs that they don't need to maintain muscle strength
28:52
Speaker 1: in because they're used to navigating the world using accessibility
28:56
Speaker 1: equipment and they wouldn't even need that in space. So
28:58
Speaker 1: they're like really well suited to that environment that does
29:00
Speaker 1: not need to be tailored to some specific need that
29:03
Speaker 1: they have if they didn't use those accessibility equipment right now.
29:07
Speaker 2: Also, in space, there's no sound, and this might be
29:09
Speaker 2: jarring for someone who's not used to silence, or if
29:12
Speaker 2: you're like me, you've got a particular level of timidus
29:15
Speaker 2: that you can just hear just ringing forever. Yeah, But further,
29:20
Speaker 2: should communication break down, they have no recourse for communicating.
29:23
Speaker 2: But a deaf person or somebody who has a hearing impairment,
29:26
Speaker 2: they would be so comfortable in the solace environment that
29:28
Speaker 2: they wouldn't even notice it happening and could can continue
29:31
Speaker 2: to do their work without that level of distraction. Further,
29:34
Speaker 2: they're capable of communicating with gestures and even facial expressions,
29:37
Speaker 2: and not that hearing folks are not, but they tend
29:40
Speaker 2: to be more adept at it because that is their
29:41
Speaker 2: primary mode of communication.
29:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just another example of like people who that's
29:46
Speaker 1: the kind of training, if you will, that's the experience
29:48
Speaker 1: that they have on a day to day basis that
29:51
Speaker 1: they have to use a lot. More So, they're very
29:54
Speaker 1: effective at communicating without sound, and of whatever ways that
29:58
Speaker 1: you learn to do that, they pick it up and
29:59
Speaker 1: that's the life language that they speak in that they use.
30:01
Speaker 1: So it's just another advantage to working in a space
30:04
Speaker 1: where sound is not always the reliable medium through which
30:07
Speaker 1: people communicate. Furthermore, you think about the fact that like
30:10
Speaker 1: space ships and space stations, they're built with a lot
30:13
Speaker 1: of lights. They have to have bulbs that emit light.
30:16
Speaker 1: They have to power those lights, and that only exists
30:19
Speaker 1: because cited people depend on moving about environment where they
30:24
Speaker 1: work through using their eyes, and so a blind person
30:28
Speaker 1: might be able to work in an environment, or someone
30:30
Speaker 1: who has vision impairments might be able to work very
30:32
Speaker 1: comfortably in an environment that is totally dark. And you
30:35
Speaker 1: can think about this as like they'd either be great
30:37
Speaker 1: at working in this environment if the lights weren't out,
30:40
Speaker 1: or even if they didn't or if you imagine like
30:43
Speaker 1: another version of this, they could specifically even engineer building
30:46
Speaker 1: spacecraft and like stations and ships and whatnot that don't
30:51
Speaker 1: have any lights at all, and that's one less thing
30:54
Speaker 1: to supply power to. It's one less thing that can
30:56
Speaker 1: break because the people, if they have some kind of
30:59
Speaker 1: vision impairment, they wouldn't even benefit from those lights anyway,
31:01
Speaker 1: there's no need to include them as part of the design.
31:04
Speaker 1: So one way to save money and resources, and again
31:08
Speaker 1: you have things like powers being diverted to those and
31:10
Speaker 1: you have more maintenance that's required for those is if
31:13
Speaker 1: you have someone who who depends on touch navigate the environment,
31:17
Speaker 1: just have them work in a dark environment and they'll
31:19
Speaker 1: do fine, because that's the world they already know how
31:21
Speaker 1: to navigate right now.
31:23
Speaker 2: Restricting only physical perfection to space travel may not only
31:26
Speaker 2: be a missed opportunity, it may be a liability. People
31:29
Speaker 2: with disabilities may not only perform just as well as
31:31
Speaker 2: people without impairments, they may perform better in the context
31:35
Speaker 2: of low gravity and few sensory inputs, and they may
31:38
Speaker 2: not require as many resources as a result of not
31:41
Speaker 2: having to have all that special equipment for exercising like
31:44
Speaker 2: the stuff you just mentioned, depending on those circumstances or
31:47
Speaker 2: their own contextual needs.
31:49
Speaker 1: So all that is to say that people with impairments
31:51
Speaker 1: might make fantastic astronauts, and I think we're doing a
31:54
Speaker 1: huge disservice leaving that advantage on the table. And not
31:58
Speaker 1: only that, but like having to cater to the needs
32:02
Speaker 1: of people who don't have impairments might prove to be
32:05
Speaker 1: more expensive and challenging in the long run than just
32:08
Speaker 1: using those people who are like perfectly competent. They could
32:10
Speaker 1: be really great at doing these types of things. I mean,
32:13
Speaker 1: they're just not even given a chance to do it
32:15
Speaker 1: most of the time. So they think we just need
32:17
Speaker 1: to shift our thoughts our thinking in an attitude about
32:19
Speaker 1: this and create those opportunities because they might be the
32:22
Speaker 1: best of us. As far as dealing with going to space, yeah, absolutely, Okay,
32:27
Speaker 1: So that sort of tackles the stuff that we want
32:29
Speaker 1: to describe as far as what might make people with
32:32
Speaker 1: impairments really strong candidates for just working broadly in that space.
32:36
Speaker 1: But there's also some fun things to include that are
32:39
Speaker 1: just sort of like, what are the benefits of impairments
32:41
Speaker 1: for people who have those impairments, And one of them
32:44
Speaker 1: is they don't have to listen to as many ads.
32:46
Speaker 1: I mean, that's not true. I guess they do, but
32:49
Speaker 1: maybe they can avoid them better.
32:50
Speaker 2: Unless you're in Canada.
32:58
Speaker 1: All right, we're back. The impairments of being Canadian.
33:03
Speaker 2: Not an impairment. Please don't for my Canadian, for my
33:05
Speaker 2: friends of the Great White North, please don't be mad
33:07
Speaker 2: at us.
33:08
Speaker 1: I know we love Canada. There's a non zero chance
33:11
Speaker 1: I'll end up there one day.
33:15
Speaker 2: We're getting closer and closer every day.
33:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, anyway, all right, so just for fun, we'll
33:20
Speaker 1: include some benefits that people who have disabilities have mentioned
33:24
Speaker 1: as things that they've experienced that they see as an advantage.
33:28
Speaker 1: These largely are things like policies and procedures that people
33:33
Speaker 1: have developed to accommodate people who have various impairments, which
33:37
Speaker 1: is wonderful and I'm glad that exists. But this is something.
33:39
Speaker 1: This is a list of things that people who have
33:41
Speaker 1: experienced those have made to just sort of highlight their
33:44
Speaker 1: the benefits they've enjoyed from that. Yeah.
33:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, Just so we're clear on this, This is not
33:49
Speaker 2: us saying this as like we think these are benefits.
33:52
Speaker 2: These are benefits that people them with disabilities themselves have
33:55
Speaker 2: have touted. Is like, hey, these are cool. Yes, yeah,
33:58
Speaker 2: one of them is better and free parking, discount of
34:00
Speaker 2: tickets to events, and also discounted events or tickets for
34:04
Speaker 2: support staff as well. I have been in that situation.
34:07
Speaker 2: I've got to experience that, specifically from a local water park, which.
34:10
Speaker 1: Is a lot of fun, cool nice.
34:12
Speaker 2: So in theater, touchtours, So this one requires a little
34:15
Speaker 2: more explanation because I've never heard of this until I
34:18
Speaker 2: just read that sentence. So at many theaters, blind people
34:21
Speaker 2: may get to tour the theater before the play and
34:24
Speaker 2: touch the costumes, the props, and the sets that will
34:26
Speaker 2: appear in the play. And this way they can get
34:29
Speaker 2: a sense of what the visual aesthetic is of the play,
34:31
Speaker 2: or like kind of start to get an idea of
34:33
Speaker 2: what those sensory pieces are while they're listening to it.
34:36
Speaker 2: And they may even get to meet some of the
34:37
Speaker 2: cast and crew before the show, which is really cool.
34:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, so they sort of said, like it's a really
34:42
Speaker 1: neat advantage that because they can't just necessarily again this
34:47
Speaker 1: is people visual impairments. They can't necessarily just watch the
34:51
Speaker 1: show play out, but they want to like participate in it.
34:53
Speaker 1: They can still hear, and a lot of what happens
34:55
Speaker 1: in plays is auditory. There's a lot of dialogue, there's
34:59
Speaker 1: a lot of narration, but they get to go behind
35:01
Speaker 1: the scenes and get the sort of feel it. So
35:02
Speaker 1: they get a sense of like what the costumes look
35:04
Speaker 1: like and how the sets are designed, and like it's
35:07
Speaker 1: kind of a cool way to just experience a show.
35:09
Speaker 1: Another one that they listed is that in many contexts,
35:12
Speaker 1: people with disabilities are given extra time on exams as
35:16
Speaker 1: an accommodation. Apparently, people with disabilities may be exempt from
35:20
Speaker 1: what's considered a value added tax or VAT, and it's
35:24
Speaker 1: because they cannot even fully benefit from products that they're using.
35:29
Speaker 1: Sometimes but that they might depend on. So products that
35:32
Speaker 1: have like that have a visual component. For example, that's
35:37
Speaker 1: maybe a medical device that has something that someone who
35:40
Speaker 1: who has a vision impairment might need. The medical device, well,
35:43
Speaker 1: they might not have to pay the full tax on that,
35:45
Speaker 1: or they might get a little discount because they can't
35:48
Speaker 1: use the visual components of that device, and so they're
35:50
Speaker 1: only getting a little bit of the benefit from how
35:53
Speaker 1: much they're spending on it. So that's that was a
35:55
Speaker 1: benefit that they mentioned. In some countries, people with vision
35:58
Speaker 1: impairments may also even pay less for television. I saw
36:01
Speaker 1: this specifically regarding the BBC for people who live in
36:04
Speaker 1: that part of the world. Because they're only using the
36:06
Speaker 1: audio portion, they can't even fully benefit from the use
36:09
Speaker 1: of the visual portions of TV programming, and so that
36:12
Speaker 1: entitles them to a discount on the cost of having
36:15
Speaker 1: the television. They still get the programming in the form
36:18
Speaker 1: of audio, but they're not getting all of it, so
36:20
Speaker 1: they get what I saw was fifty percent off, which
36:22
Speaker 1: seems pretty good.
36:23
Speaker 2: Right right. Somewhat related to that, one blogger actually out
36:27
Speaker 2: of it because of their vision impairment. They didn't have
36:29
Speaker 2: to ever watch gruesome or disturbing content, which is kind
36:31
Speaker 2: of fun. Like if you don't like that sort of thing, obviously,
36:34
Speaker 2: like you'd be like, no, I don't see that. It
36:36
Speaker 2: makes me queasy. So that's a nice little benefit from that.
36:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, it'd be like if I ever lost my hearing,
36:42
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be able to listen to the music I like,
36:44
Speaker 1: but I would also never have to listen to country again.
36:48
Speaker 2: I always forget how much you despise country music.
36:52
Speaker 1: It's the silver lining silver lining. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, No,
36:56
Speaker 1: it's true. It is not my jam. I don't ever
36:59
Speaker 1: choose it. Want it to happen to me.
37:02
Speaker 2: That's what it is. It happens to you, and it
37:04
Speaker 2: feels like it feels like a violation.
37:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean I do understand, like some people
37:08
Speaker 1: feel that way about metal music, which is sad, but
37:12
Speaker 1: it's it's just where I'm at.
37:14
Speaker 2: So yeah, that's fair. That's fair. Now, depending on where
37:17
Speaker 2: you live, if you do have a disability or you
37:19
Speaker 2: are disabled, you may be entitled the free or reduced
37:21
Speaker 2: cost prescriptions and some types of treatments as well. So
37:24
Speaker 2: there are some benefits there, and that's and that's kind
37:26
Speaker 2: of more specific to the United States, but you know
37:29
Speaker 2: where that's kind of like where we have privatized healthcare,
37:32
Speaker 2: that might be a thing, but other places may have
37:34
Speaker 2: this too.
37:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, I actually saw this as another thing. And I
37:37
Speaker 1: want to say London maybe where I saw this as
37:39
Speaker 1: a potential thing, they have like some reduced or free
37:42
Speaker 1: prescription some other types of treatments, but maybe it was
37:45
Speaker 1: somewhere else, but anyway, all right. And then finally, one
37:47
Speaker 1: wheelchair user pointed out that their wheelchair can carry a
37:51
Speaker 1: lot of bags. This is someone who had one of
37:52
Speaker 1: the motorized wheelchairs, but they said it's particularly convenient for shopping,
37:56
Speaker 1: so people sometimes load up. They're like family members might
37:59
Speaker 1: load up their wheelchair with bags that they can carry around.
38:01
Speaker 2: Huh.
38:02
Speaker 1: That's another one for you, capitalism. Yay're consuming?
38:08
Speaker 2: Yay? All right.
38:09
Speaker 1: I think that's what we have to say generally about
38:11
Speaker 1: the idea of disability and ability where I think I
38:14
Speaker 1: hate the idea that anybody would think that the value
38:18
Speaker 1: of someone's life is linked to their productivity, to their
38:22
Speaker 1: participation in the capitalist system. I completely disagree with that
38:25
Speaker 1: notion all the way through, from beginning to end and
38:28
Speaker 1: everything in the middle. I hate it. But I also
38:31
Speaker 1: want to acknowledge that, like, a lot of people with
38:33
Speaker 1: disabilities do want to work, probably most of them, possibly
38:37
Speaker 1: all of them, like and oftentimes they find meaning in
38:40
Speaker 1: that work and in that they want to they want
38:43
Speaker 1: to take advantage of the skills in the lived experience
38:47
Speaker 1: that they have that they bring to the table that
38:49
Speaker 1: make them valuable candidates that have a lot to offer,
38:52
Speaker 1: and by including them this in the workforce, by including
38:55
Speaker 1: them in these projects, and by thinking of them also
38:57
Speaker 1: not as like only ever doing grunt work, which I
39:00
Speaker 1: think is sometimes the case in some places, that they
39:03
Speaker 1: have a lot to offer, like they contribute meaningfully, and
39:06
Speaker 1: that they get to thrive and shine in those spaces
39:09
Speaker 1: and get the well deserved sort of respect and autonomy
39:12
Speaker 1: that is afforded by having positions like that. So I
39:15
Speaker 1: guess what I'm saying is, if you are in a
39:18
Speaker 1: position where you're running a business and you have the
39:19
Speaker 1: opportunity to hire people with disabilities, take it like it's
39:22
Speaker 1: only going to work to your advantage.
39:24
Speaker 2: Right, absolutely, Like it's only going to benefit everybody involved
39:27
Speaker 2: one percent.
39:29
Speaker 1: Awesome? All right, Well, I think that's what I have
39:31
Speaker 1: to say about this, though. Is there anything you'd like
39:33
Speaker 1: to add? Or that I forgot before we transition to
39:36
Speaker 1: our credits and recommendations.
39:38
Speaker 2: No, I think that covers it for this one. I
39:40
Speaker 2: mean I think that. I think at the end of
39:41
Speaker 2: the day, the biggest thing is, like, just because somebody
39:43
Speaker 2: has a disability, you shouldn't discount them. Yes, like this,
39:46
Speaker 2: this is a perfect example of why like DEI so
39:49
Speaker 2: important is to be able to bring that diversity into
39:51
Speaker 2: those spaces.
39:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, it just facilitates creating opportunities in those spaces, and
39:56
Speaker 1: those opportunities often mean that things improve, like they just
39:59
Speaker 1: get better across the Yeah, but you know, let's just
40:02
Speaker 1: make things terrible again and see how much fun that is.
40:06
Speaker 2: Welcome to America.
40:08
Speaker 1: Indeed, if you are joining us for the first time,
40:11
Speaker 1: we always wrap up our full length conversations by giving
40:14
Speaker 1: some very fun recommendations. These are whimsical and they're funny
40:17
Speaker 1: and they're interesting, and they don't last very long. So
40:20
Speaker 1: they're the icing on the cake. I think, unless you're
40:24
Speaker 1: one of those people for whom I seen is the
40:25
Speaker 1: whole reason you're there, in which case they're the cream filling.
40:28
Speaker 1: I don't know, whatever, it's the moves, Yeah, the decorations,
40:35
Speaker 1: it's the part of the end. That's fun, but first
40:37
Speaker 1: I need to get through some credit so writing and
40:39
Speaker 1: fact checking from Shane and myself. Thank you so much
40:41
Speaker 1: for recording with me today.
40:42
Speaker 2: Shane, Hey, thank you for having me.
40:44
Speaker 1: Our social media coordinator is Emma Wilson. And the person
40:47
Speaker 1: who takes all of these cuts and edits and blurbs
40:50
Speaker 1: and nonsense and cuts it together to make a coherent
40:53
Speaker 1: episode as Justin, who is very good at everything.
40:56
Speaker 2: He is the best at everything as far as I
40:57
Speaker 2: can tell.
40:59
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's you know. I didn't go far enough, but
41:01
Speaker 1: you took it there, and I appreciate that not just
41:04
Speaker 1: good at everything, the best at everything, accurate, the best,
41:08
Speaker 1: the best, and a wonderful person is just all around.
41:11
Speaker 1: So that's my team of people. If you would like
41:13
Speaker 1: to support us, you can join us over on Patreon.
41:15
Speaker 1: If you do that, you get at free content, early episodes,
41:18
Speaker 1: all that sort of thing, and we so appreciate you.
41:20
Speaker 1: And at the end of our full length discussions, I
41:23
Speaker 1: will read the list of people who have helped us
41:26
Speaker 1: continue to do our thing by joining us on Patreon
41:28
Speaker 1: and generously contributing regular donations that help us do this podcast,
41:32
Speaker 1: and that is Mike m Megan, Mike t, Justin, Kim Brad, Stephanie, Brian, Ashley,
41:38
Speaker 1: Kiara and Charlie. Thank you all very much. We really
41:41
Speaker 1: appreciate you.
41:42
Speaker 2: Y'all are beautiful.
41:44
Speaker 1: Otherwise, you can support us that do not require joining
41:47
Speaker 1: us on Patreon. You could leave us a rating and
41:49
Speaker 1: a review. You can just do one or the other,
41:52
Speaker 1: but they really help other people find us. You can
41:54
Speaker 1: tell a friend subscribe to make sure you get all
41:56
Speaker 1: of our episodes. The more people that subscribe, the more
41:59
Speaker 1: the algorithms use this podcast as one that people will like,
42:02
Speaker 1: and then it will recommend it for more people. So
42:04
Speaker 1: all of that stuff is great. We do appreciate it.
42:07
Speaker 1: If you would like to tell us your thoughts on
42:09
Speaker 1: disability and ability, you can tell us something that we
42:11
Speaker 1: miss or give us some more cool examples, or you
42:14
Speaker 1: can just tell us your thoughts. We look forward to
42:16
Speaker 1: hearing from people. You can email us directly at info
42:18
Speaker 1: at wwdwwdpodcast dot com. You can also reach us on
42:22
Speaker 1: the social media platforms. I think that is everything I have.
42:26
Speaker 1: Is there anything that I missed or that you'd like
42:28
Speaker 1: to add before we transition to recommendations. No, I think
42:30
Speaker 1: that covers it all right, let's add a thing and
42:34
Speaker 1: then recommend a thing. Oh no, all right, By ad,
42:46
Speaker 1: I mean subtract, subtract from quality, add to time. We
42:51
Speaker 1: are recommending things, recommendations. I'm recommending a book that I
43:04
Speaker 1: just read. It is called Recursion by Blake Crouch. I
43:07
Speaker 1: think many people may know him for Dark Matter. This
43:10
Speaker 1: was also made into a TV show or a movie
43:12
Speaker 1: or something that I'm looking forward to checking out, although
43:15
Speaker 1: I do want to read the book first, but Recursion
43:17
Speaker 1: is is my first Blake Crouch read, and oh my god,
43:21
Speaker 1: I love this book. Yeah, my god, it was so
43:26
Speaker 1: so good, Holy cow. So I don't want to spoil anything,
43:31
Speaker 1: so I'm gonna briefly describe it this way. As far
43:33
Speaker 1: as genre, I think you'd put this maybe in the
43:35
Speaker 1: sci fi genre, a little bit, in the thriller suspense
43:41
Speaker 1: genre a little bit. Yeah, this is it's extremely creative.
43:46
Speaker 1: It's I guess, without spoiling anything about the story, I
43:51
Speaker 1: would say it's about consciousness and memory.
43:59
Speaker 2: Yes, that's a good way to put it.
44:00
Speaker 1: Yes, And then you should just you should just read it.
44:05
Speaker 1: It's not that long and it is fantastic, Like I
44:10
Speaker 1: just could not stop reading. I could, I could not.
44:12
Speaker 1: I had to keep going because every time something would
44:15
Speaker 1: like it felt like there was barely a sentence that
44:17
Speaker 1: didn't make me want to read the next sentence. His
44:20
Speaker 1: ideas are beautiful, the it's written well, the story is incredible.
44:25
Speaker 1: I just loved it all the way through, and I
44:29
Speaker 1: could not recommend it strongly enough. I think this is
44:32
Speaker 1: instantly in my top five probably favorite books of all time. Yeah,
44:36
Speaker 1: I am just extremely impressed with this. So that's my
44:40
Speaker 1: recommendation is Recursion by Blake Crouch.
44:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's so good. I mean both the books I've read,
44:45
Speaker 2: I've read Recursion and Upgrade, and both are just phenomenal,
44:50
Speaker 2: so super stoked that you finally got into it and
44:52
Speaker 2: you like it.
44:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm going to read everything this guy writes now
44:55
Speaker 1: because he this so far, I mean as possible. This
44:58
Speaker 1: was like a one and done. But you already recommended
45:01
Speaker 1: Upgrade as being really good, and as I said, dark
45:04
Speaker 1: Matter is extremely popular and well loved, So I think
45:07
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna I think I'm just a fan of
45:08
Speaker 1: this guy now.
45:09
Speaker 2: Yep, I think, yeah, this is now a Blake Crouch podcast.
45:13
Speaker 2: That's how that's how we transition into this stuff. I'm
45:15
Speaker 2: also recommending a book, and this was the last audiobook
45:18
Speaker 2: I listened to. It's called The Only Good Indians by
45:21
Speaker 2: Stephen Graham Jones.
45:22
Speaker 1: I feel like I've heard of this.
45:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's pretty popular right now. It's in the
45:26
Speaker 2: you could probably classified as like a supernatural horror genre book.
45:30
Speaker 2: It's it's very in line with if you like Stephen King.
45:33
Speaker 2: It's like, imagine like an indigenous version of Stephen King.
45:37
Speaker 2: That's what this is. So like Stephen So and I
45:39
Speaker 2: bring that up because Stephen Graham Jones is an Indigenous author.
45:42
Speaker 2: He is part of the Blackfeet Tribe of the Blackfeet
45:44
Speaker 2: Indian Reservation of Montana. So he's registered as a member
45:48
Speaker 2: of that of that clan and that tribe, and he
45:51
Speaker 2: is and and the story is a group of indigenous
45:54
Speaker 2: folks that live near a reservation, not necessarily all on
45:56
Speaker 2: in a reservation, and uh kind of their stories in
45:59
Speaker 2: modern times and their struggles with like their identities as
46:03
Speaker 2: members of their tribe and as indigenous folks that are
46:06
Speaker 2: living in modern society. And then some of the kind
46:09
Speaker 2: of interesting kind of rituals and practices and some of
46:13
Speaker 2: the storytelling and goes along with it. It's a it's
46:15
Speaker 2: a true crime. I would make an argument it's a
46:17
Speaker 2: true crime supernatural horror story and it is really good.
46:22
Speaker 2: The audiobook is done really well, so I think if
46:26
Speaker 2: you if you give it a listen or give it
46:28
Speaker 2: a read, either way you're gonna be you're gonna be
46:29
Speaker 2: pretty satisfied with it. But I think that my experience
46:33
Speaker 2: with it was the audiobook, and it was pretty great.
46:35
Speaker 1: That sounds awesome. I am so gonna check this out. Yeah,
46:38
Speaker 1: good sell on that.
46:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was great, done really well. The
46:42
Speaker 2: characters are like fleshed out and dynamic and deep and interesting.
46:46
Speaker 2: It's a good read for sure.
46:48
Speaker 1: Fantastic. Okay, I'm looking forward to that. We've got a
46:52
Speaker 1: good list of books. I'm looking forward to. Books are
46:54
Speaker 1: the best, man. I'm so happy. They're so great in
46:56
Speaker 1: the world where books exist.
47:00
Speaker 2: So far.
47:01
Speaker 1: Okay, very good. I think that is. That's where we're
47:06
Speaker 1: at today. We'll go ahead and close this one out.
47:08
Speaker 1: We made it. We managed to do it under an hour,
47:10
Speaker 1: which is very impressive for us. Is there anything that
47:12
Speaker 1: I missed you'd like to add before we close out today?
47:15
Speaker 2: No, I think that covers it today.
47:16
Speaker 1: All right, Thank you all very much. For listening. This
47:18
Speaker 1: is Abraham and.
47:19
Speaker 2: This is Shane.
47:20
Speaker 1: We're out.
47:21
Speaker 2: See yup, you've been listening to Why We Do What
47:24
Speaker 2: We Do. You can learn more about this and other
47:27
Speaker 2: episodes by going to WWDWWD podcast dot com. Thanks for listening,
47:33
Speaker 2: and we hope you have an awesome day