Latest / The Karel Show / LGBTQ Rights Under Attack: Ukraine, Russia, Africa and the Politics Behind the Backlash

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LGBTQ Rights Under Attack: Ukraine, Russia, Africa and the Politics Behind the Backlash · The Karel Show

0:00
Speaker 1: No time to fear. Coral is so near because show
0:04
Speaker 1: time is here. So on with the show.
0:07
Speaker 2: Let's give it a go.
0:09
Speaker 1: Krell is the one that you need to know.
0:14
Speaker 3: Now it's show time.
0:28
Speaker 2: All right.
0:28
Speaker 4: It is this Gay Week with Corral here on Thursday
0:31
Speaker 4: August twentieth and Scott Jacobson of The good Man Project
0:35
Speaker 4: who within Kiev, Ukraine, which is not a good place
0:39
Speaker 4: to be in tonight. And we'll tell you why as
0:40
Speaker 4: soon as we start the show.
0:41
Speaker 2: So don't go anywhere now, all right.
0:48
Speaker 4: It is Thursday August twentieth time for this Gay Week.
0:52
Speaker 4: We've got Scott Jacobson standing by in Kiv, Ukraine. And Scott,
0:57
Speaker 4: as we were having technical difficulties, you were telling us
1:00
Speaker 4: that y'all have been told because for you right now
1:02
Speaker 4: it's nighttime, middle of the night basically, and for y'all
1:07
Speaker 4: have been told that tonight and to quote Rod Stewart.
1:11
Speaker 2: Tonight's the night.
1:15
Speaker 4: Uh, this might be the worst night of bombing ever
1:18
Speaker 4: experienced in Kiev. How do we know if this is
1:22
Speaker 4: just an idle threat from Putin? You know, you know
1:26
Speaker 4: how saber rattling versus a very credible threat that it's
1:30
Speaker 4: probably going to happen.
1:32
Speaker 3: Right, there could be instances of a red herring in
1:36
Speaker 3: the military logistical sense, not in the logical sense in
1:41
Speaker 3: that it's just a smelly old fish that takes your
1:43
Speaker 3: nose off the real trail of what actually is going
1:46
Speaker 3: to be happening. And there have been a lot of
1:48
Speaker 3: false alarms. There haven't a lot of false alarms in
1:50
Speaker 3: this in this this sense, but it's.
1:52
Speaker 4: Kind of like a tornado watch, in a tornado warning,
1:55
Speaker 4: a tornado watch, everybody ig yours because a tornado watch
1:59
Speaker 4: means well, there could be one maybe, But a tornado
2:03
Speaker 4: warning is bitches, you better hide because there's gonna be
2:06
Speaker 4: a tornado.
2:07
Speaker 2: So there, you know, you know there there are two
2:11
Speaker 2: separate things.
2:12
Speaker 4: So would you say tonight is a tornado watch or
2:15
Speaker 4: a tornado warning?
2:18
Speaker 3: Tornado warning? There's been several over the last couple of
2:23
Speaker 3: weeks and so, but this is the first one I've
2:26
Speaker 3: been told maybe the worst. Wow.
2:30
Speaker 2: Wow.
2:31
Speaker 4: And psychologically, before we get to this gay week, what
2:35
Speaker 4: does that do to a human being?
2:36
Speaker 2: Let me ask you. Let me ask you this.
2:40
Speaker 4: As humans, when something is overwhelming, and particularly like the
2:44
Speaker 4: thought of death, it's like when you live in California,
2:48
Speaker 4: you know, the big one is coming, and you know
2:51
Speaker 4: that when it comes, it's gonna kill a bunch of people,
2:54
Speaker 4: maybe even you. You kind of prepare for it, but
2:58
Speaker 4: you don't think about it every day, even though at
3:02
Speaker 4: any moment the San Andreas could let loose, but you
3:06
Speaker 4: don't really think about it because you think I'll deal
3:08
Speaker 4: with it when it gets here. I know it's a
3:10
Speaker 4: very real possibility, but I'm not gonna let it rule
3:13
Speaker 4: my life. Is living in Keev right now sort of
3:17
Speaker 4: like living on the San Andreas fault. You know it's
3:19
Speaker 4: gonna blow you just don't know when.
3:22
Speaker 3: And I've been here for more than six months, pretty
3:25
Speaker 3: much consecutively, and it's more or less routine at this
3:28
Speaker 3: point with the bombings, and you know, the blip. A
3:31
Speaker 3: hotel four hundred meters away or something a couple of
3:34
Speaker 3: weeks ago, a few weeks ago, that's twelve.
3:36
Speaker 4: Hundred feet for you Americans. That's only twelve hundred feet
3:39
Speaker 4: for you Americans. Or four football fields. That's that's it, right.
3:46
Speaker 3: I did some field review of the site the morning after,
3:51
Speaker 3: and the top of the building was blown off, concrete
3:54
Speaker 3: was on the bottom, and water was gushing out of
3:58
Speaker 3: the top of the building obviously blown up some pipes too.
4:01
Speaker 2: And you were on our air when that happened. You
4:03
Speaker 2: heard it happen on our air. You heard that on
4:06
Speaker 2: when we were taping the show. So you heard that
4:09
Speaker 2: hotel get bombed.
4:11
Speaker 4: Well, you are downtown Kiev, and that's that's the place.
4:14
Speaker 4: They'd like to let me ask, where is the in Kiev?
4:17
Speaker 4: Where is the central government?
4:19
Speaker 2: Is that? Where is that?
4:22
Speaker 3: Is it near you? Basically?
4:23
Speaker 4: Well, I mean like if there was a courthouse or whatever,
4:27
Speaker 4: is that near you?
4:30
Speaker 3: I don't want to give away too many details, but
4:32
Speaker 3: I am in Pacherski district, which is pretty much the
4:35
Speaker 3: central district.
4:37
Speaker 4: Oh lord, well, I'm not comforted by I just launch it.
4:40
Speaker 4: And no, I'm not comforted by any of this. I'm
4:42
Speaker 4: not happy about any of it. And I want you
4:45
Speaker 4: out of there. When are you leaving? Are you staying
4:48
Speaker 4: for a year?
4:51
Speaker 3: So I have some plans which I cannot reveal yet.
4:57
Speaker 3: I have had invitations to even more dangerous areas. I
5:02
Speaker 3: am unsure whether or not I will take those up.
5:05
Speaker 3: Just wait wait, wait, wait wait wait. So those will
5:09
Speaker 3: be forthcoming, depending on logistics financing, if I choose to
5:13
Speaker 3: go to them. But some are safe summer niers to
5:17
Speaker 3: your product question, that's really important. It's a routine thing here,
5:22
Speaker 3: so people just expect it. And so when you try
5:26
Speaker 3: to break a morale to a war that has lasted
5:31
Speaker 3: as long as this has longer than the world one
5:33
Speaker 3: longest sons, as long as nerds of war, when it's
5:37
Speaker 3: expected and routine, it's not as much of a morale
5:41
Speaker 3: breaking thing anymore. It's a tragedy employment to have been killed.
5:46
Speaker 3: It's a past.
5:51
Speaker 5: You're missing out. Get the podcast, videos and the blog
5:54
Speaker 5: including recipes at reallycorrel dot com.
5:57
Speaker 2: Well it's really k A R E l dot com.
6:02
Speaker 1: Show Time is here. No time to fear Correll is
6:06
Speaker 1: so near because show time is here, So on with
6:10
Speaker 1: the show.
6:11
Speaker 2: Let's give it a go.
6:13
Speaker 1: Correll is the one that you need to know.
6:18
Speaker 2: All right.
6:18
Speaker 4: Scott is in Kiev, and I think I think the
6:20
Speaker 4: term I was thinking of is ben but never break me.
6:23
Speaker 4: That's basically what you're saying is morale wise. This bends people,
6:28
Speaker 4: but it doesn't break them. They are they are steadfast
6:31
Speaker 4: that they are going to get through this. I just
6:33
Speaker 4: don't know how this ends. I I really don't. We
6:36
Speaker 4: We've had the un working on it. We've had you know,
6:40
Speaker 4: Trump working on it, We've had you know, Macron working
6:44
Speaker 4: on it. We've had so many leaders in the world
6:47
Speaker 4: that have tried to negotiate peace and nothing's come of it.
6:51
Speaker 4: I don't know how this ends. I don't know what's
6:53
Speaker 4: going to make Vladimir Putin happy. I don't he's not
6:56
Speaker 4: going to get the crimea he's you know, they're he
7:00
Speaker 4: A win for him right now would just be to stop,
7:03
Speaker 4: to to stop the war, you know, take what he's
7:05
Speaker 4: gotten and just go on. But I think he wants
7:11
Speaker 4: more and I don't. I don't think he's going to
7:14
Speaker 4: get it. So it's just going to be like a stalemate,
7:17
Speaker 4: back and forth, add infinitum. And then that's that's really scary.
7:23
Speaker 3: We have the footnote to the American case. They have
7:29
Speaker 3: done some helpful things. They have done more optics of
7:35
Speaker 3: helpfulness because six arrest warrants are from the International Criminal
7:42
Speaker 3: Court for six senior officials of the Russian Federation for
7:47
Speaker 3: allegations of war crimes. Now, the United States currently is
7:52
Speaker 3: sanctioning the ic CE and head officials of the ICC
7:58
Speaker 3: and deliberately putting up through Marc Rubio, a targeted attack
8:03
Speaker 3: on the legitimacy of the ICEC. In addition, the Trump administration,
8:09
Speaker 3: also with Marc Rubio as a spokesperson, has been actively
8:14
Speaker 3: reducing funding and support for the United Nations. Therefore, the
8:19
Speaker 3: United Nations works at reduced capacity. When I interviewed one
8:24
Speaker 3: of the commissioners for the UN Commission of Inquiry on Ukraine,
8:28
Speaker 3: Brenda Grover, who's an advocate for the industry in court,
8:31
Speaker 3: she put it as the liquidity crisis of the UN.
8:35
Speaker 3: So when they're trying to do these investigations through this commission,
8:39
Speaker 3: they have reduced capacity. Therefore they have to be picky
8:42
Speaker 3: and when they do pick something, they can't go as
8:46
Speaker 3: full bore as they would like to otherwise. So helpful,
8:50
Speaker 3: but more helpful in terms of optics. As per the instagram,
8:55
Speaker 3: the War Secretary, mister Hegseth a lot of moves to
9:01
Speaker 3: be non helpful, but generally because they're doing a general
9:06
Speaker 3: attack on these institutions. But the derivative secondary effects are
9:10
Speaker 3: very specific to this particular war which I happened to it.
9:13
Speaker 3: If you're living in.
9:14
Speaker 4: A god, I hope for the Ukrainians that it ends
9:16
Speaker 4: soon and for you so you can get back to
9:18
Speaker 4: the safety of Canada, although Trump is once again fifty
9:23
Speaker 4: percent tariffs on hold for three days because the deal
9:26
Speaker 4: is closed with Canada. And somehow I don't think Canada's
9:29
Speaker 4: really dealing with him. I think they're just I don't
9:32
Speaker 4: know what they're How do you deal with that.
9:34
Speaker 2: Manib don't.
9:35
Speaker 3: You don't deal with Trump.
9:36
Speaker 4: You manage exactly so, and Canadians, y'all are done. Canadians
9:42
Speaker 4: are done with us. They're not coming here. The people now.
9:46
Speaker 4: They just did a poll in Canada and normally the US,
9:50
Speaker 4: well Americans, not the US, but Americans normally poll very
9:55
Speaker 4: high in Canada in terms of likability.
9:57
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, we love Americans. Whatever, Ah, now we're underwater. Now.
10:02
Speaker 4: Sixty four percent of Canadians said they have a negative
10:04
Speaker 4: view of Americans. So he he is destroying just our reputation,
10:11
Speaker 4: you know, particularly with Canada. You guys are done, You're
10:15
Speaker 4: not on board, you're not liking this.
10:18
Speaker 3: That's an interesting frame too, because you said Americans in
10:21
Speaker 3: that Yes survey, that's different than American values said they're targeting.
10:27
Speaker 3: That's a very subtle distinction. So this can change. But
10:31
Speaker 3: if you're hating people.
10:33
Speaker 4: Right, I love Jews, I love well I love all people.
10:37
Speaker 4: I love all people unless they're bad. I have nothing
10:41
Speaker 4: against the Jews at all.
10:42
Speaker 2: None. I do not like Israel, and I do not
10:45
Speaker 2: like what Israel is doing. I have a negative view
10:48
Speaker 2: of Israel. I have a positive view of Jews.
10:52
Speaker 4: I have a negative view of Israel because to me,
10:54
Speaker 4: they are two different things. The rank and file Jew
10:57
Speaker 4: is not controlling net and Yahoo yah who is a
11:00
Speaker 4: war criminal and he's committing genocide. So I'm not happy
11:03
Speaker 4: with that. But the Jewish people I have, you know,
11:07
Speaker 4: But I feel the same for the Palestinian people. And no,
11:10
Speaker 4: I do not like Humas. I always have to qualify
11:12
Speaker 4: that I don't like himas, but I don't like Maga,
11:16
Speaker 4: so you know, I mean, you know, but I don't
11:19
Speaker 4: like Jamas. They're They're worse than Maga. I mean, I
11:22
Speaker 4: have to clarify that statement. But that being said, you can,
11:27
Speaker 4: for instance, I can love America or Americans and still
11:30
Speaker 4: hate Mega, and I can love the Jews and the
11:34
Speaker 4: Palestinians but still hate Hamas.
11:36
Speaker 2: You mentioned Pete Haggsbreth.
11:37
Speaker 4: You know, the other day I called him a whole
11:39
Speaker 4: bro sexual because he just seems like he has sex
11:42
Speaker 4: with bros to me. He's all worried about testosterone push ups,
11:46
Speaker 4: pull ups and uniforms, and it's like, dude, just gay out.
11:51
Speaker 3: There have been some reports there's an unhealthy number of men,
11:55
Speaker 3: even young men, taking supplemental exogynous testosterone, which isn't necessarily
12:01
Speaker 3: helpful as far as I'm aware, and it's not good.
12:04
Speaker 3: Things are quite sensitive. It's only in medical context where
12:08
Speaker 3: there's a necessity.
12:10
Speaker 4: Yes, they have asked me if I want it, and
12:13
Speaker 4: I've asked them, well why, and they said, well, your
12:16
Speaker 4: tea isn't low. I don't have low testosterone, but as
12:20
Speaker 4: I age it is dropping and now it's in the
12:23
Speaker 4: four hundreds, which is normal for a guy my age.
12:27
Speaker 4: But they said, look anything below two hundred and you
12:29
Speaker 4: know we're gonna want you to take it. And when
12:31
Speaker 4: I looked at my late husband Andrew, he had HIV
12:34
Speaker 4: and they had him on testosterone. The side effects people
12:38
Speaker 4: act like there are no There are side effects, and
12:42
Speaker 4: one of them is increased aggression and anger and mood
12:45
Speaker 4: swings and growing hair on the palm of your hand
12:48
Speaker 4: where you apply the andro gel. It's called android gel,
12:51
Speaker 4: that's what it is, a gel, and you rub it
12:54
Speaker 4: right here or right here, Andrew is to take it anyway.
12:58
Speaker 4: Speaking of Russia, there is an organization that is twenty
13:03
Speaker 4: years old, started in two thousand and six.
13:06
Speaker 5: It is.
13:08
Speaker 4: Stopping now and it's very sad because from everything that
13:13
Speaker 4: I've read, it is possibly the only hope that many.
13:17
Speaker 2: Gays have.
13:19
Speaker 4: In Russia for information for community. But it was called
13:25
Speaker 4: the Russian LGBTQ Network and it was a public organization
13:30
Speaker 4: for which has advocated for rights for LGBTQ people. They've
13:35
Speaker 4: announced they're shutting down, and this was after a court
13:39
Speaker 4: ruling I guess the Saint Petersburg City Court, And it
13:44
Speaker 4: goes to what we were speaking about last week about language.
13:48
Speaker 4: The Saint Petersburg City Court designated them extremist, and so
13:56
Speaker 4: once they were designated extremist, they decided to call it quits.
14:03
Speaker 2: And I think we talked about this last week that
14:06
Speaker 2: this is how.
14:06
Speaker 4: They're framing LGBTQ rights and LGBTQ organizations, not just in
14:14
Speaker 4: Russia but across the globe, including.
14:18
Speaker 2: The United States.
14:19
Speaker 4: They're trying to label anyone that's pro gay or a
14:22
Speaker 4: gay ally as an extremist. And as I said last week,
14:27
Speaker 4: they're doing it because it's effective. And look at the
14:30
Speaker 4: story we have this week. You know, the court labels
14:34
Speaker 4: them extremist and suddenly they're quitting. And that's really sad actually,
14:42
Speaker 4: because they've been around.
14:43
Speaker 2: Twenty years, They've.
14:45
Speaker 4: Weathered hostile environments there for twenty years, and all of
14:49
Speaker 4: a sudden, one word has caused them to shut down.
14:53
Speaker 2: Now, I don't know.
14:54
Speaker 4: I guess in Russia, if you're labeled an extremist, you
14:56
Speaker 4: can be rounded up or jailed or killed.
15:00
Speaker 3: There are some things are more extreme penally there and
15:06
Speaker 3: they're for legally, so those terms could have severe consequence.
15:12
Speaker 3: They just jailed the leader of the minority only anti
15:17
Speaker 3: war party that is available in Russia, with the leader
15:22
Speaker 3: known jail for something like eleven years if you recall correctly.
15:26
Speaker 2: And this is a person who's anti Ukrainian war.
15:32
Speaker 3: Just end the war, right?
15:35
Speaker 4: How do Ukrainians have any idea? How average rank and
15:38
Speaker 4: file Russians feel about the war? Do we have any idea?
15:42
Speaker 4: Would putn't even let that get out? I mean, are
15:44
Speaker 4: they I would think they'd be against it after all
15:47
Speaker 4: this time that they're tired of the sanctions and they're
15:49
Speaker 4: tired of, you know, for nothing.
15:52
Speaker 2: They're not getting any rewards.
15:55
Speaker 3: It's mixed. I mean, you can do a couple of things. One,
15:58
Speaker 3: you can survey of war of Russian nationality and descent
16:05
Speaker 3: who have been captured by Ukrainians and then analyze the
16:08
Speaker 3: responses to that. Do they believe the war is justified
16:14
Speaker 3: on what grounds? Do they believe it that Ukrainians are inferior,
16:18
Speaker 3: that it's the right thing to do, that they think
16:21
Speaker 3: it's part of the retaking and in state meant of
16:26
Speaker 3: the losses of the civit union, which mister Putin called
16:29
Speaker 3: the greatest tragedy of the twentieth century, the class of
16:33
Speaker 3: civil union. Or you can go to state sources of
16:38
Speaker 3: the Russian Federation which are not likely to be accurate
16:41
Speaker 3: in terms of support for the war. Barkolk won correctly,
16:44
Speaker 3: that was done by the Russian Federation at the start
16:48
Speaker 3: of the full scale invasion or a little bit after,
16:51
Speaker 3: about two thirds approximately had reasonable support for the war. However,
16:58
Speaker 3: if you have your total control of the media and
17:01
Speaker 3: the state institutions for the propaganda system, it becomes a
17:06
Speaker 3: lot less reliable to well.
17:09
Speaker 2: It's what's happened in America.
17:11
Speaker 4: You would think if you watched Fox News or News
17:13
Speaker 4: Nation or Newsmax that everyone loved Trump. That mag is
17:16
Speaker 4: great now, you know, but that it's propaganda, that's that's
17:19
Speaker 4: just not true, you know, and they are a minority.
17:23
Speaker 2: What's sad is that Russia is taking their time.
17:26
Speaker 4: You know, they're at war, they've got greater issues, and
17:29
Speaker 4: yet here we have this organization which has been around
17:32
Speaker 4: for twenty years, the Russian LGBTQ LGBTQ organization stopping mainly
17:40
Speaker 4: because of the case that we covered where there were
17:43
Speaker 4: three Russians that were arrested for I guess providing space
17:52
Speaker 4: for LGBTQ people. They were arrested on June twenty ninth,
17:56
Speaker 4: and accord In Orenberg sentenced these three people.
17:59
Speaker 2: We didn't know they're sentence. Now we do.
18:02
Speaker 4: They've been sentenced to up to seven years. It was
18:06
Speaker 4: the art director, the owner and another person from this
18:10
Speaker 4: club pose, the club pose and so it was in
18:15
Speaker 4: that trial that they labeled LGBTQ extreme and that led
18:22
Speaker 4: to the closure of this organization. So they banned LGBTQ
18:27
Speaker 4: propagandas they called it, they ban LGBTQ safe spaces and
18:32
Speaker 4: all of that this club provided that they got arrested
18:36
Speaker 4: in that court trial, they labeled LGBTQ people and their
18:40
Speaker 4: allies extremist, and now the oldest LGBTQ network in Russia,
18:45
Speaker 4: the Russian LGBTQ Network, is closing. I think what we
18:49
Speaker 4: can get before going to break from all of this
18:53
Speaker 4: is that right now is not a great time to
18:56
Speaker 4: be gay in Russia.
18:57
Speaker 2: And I have to.
18:58
Speaker 4: Wonder are they looking down on the gay community in
19:03
Speaker 4: Russia harder because of the war, you know, I mean,
19:09
Speaker 4: and to me, it just seems odd, exactly, that's exactly
19:14
Speaker 4: to me, it seems odd that they're making gay a
19:17
Speaker 4: big issue right now while they're at war. They weren't
19:21
Speaker 4: doing this eight years ago, you know, seven years ago.
19:25
Speaker 4: You know, now suddenly that they're at war, they're also
19:29
Speaker 4: at war with gay people. You would think that all
19:32
Speaker 4: gay people in Russia were Ukrainian. I mean, it just
19:35
Speaker 4: seems to me that like Trump and like Maga, they're
19:39
Speaker 4: using gay people as a scapegoat to distract the public
19:44
Speaker 4: from the fact that they're in an unending war, which
19:48
Speaker 4: is hurting them in their economy.
19:52
Speaker 3: It's probably two things. One an easy distraction within the
19:58
Speaker 3: war at a victory to be taken culturally, So it's
20:01
Speaker 3: in other words, it's a very American style of culture
20:04
Speaker 3: war when from the traditionalist point of view. Also, he
20:08
Speaker 3: has a very long line, mister Putin around traditionalist values
20:14
Speaker 3: against what he deems LGBT propaganda. And we have We've
20:19
Speaker 3: covered some case where they get influenced internationally, the Kazakhstan case,
20:24
Speaker 3: some of the legislation, and it could a legitimate push
20:30
Speaker 3: based on ideological grounds to combat what they see as
20:33
Speaker 3: Western decadence and confusion. Yeah, but I just.
20:39
Speaker 4: Have to believe younger Russians are not going for this.
20:45
Speaker 4: You know, I can't believe Russia. I've always had this
20:49
Speaker 4: weird view of Russia because I was raised, you know,
20:51
Speaker 4: in the sixties and duck and cover and all that,
20:54
Speaker 4: and I've always had this weird view of them. But
20:57
Speaker 4: recently when I've been seeing you know, Russian cities and
21:00
Speaker 4: Russian people, the young people are they want what the
21:04
Speaker 4: West has to offer, and that would include acceptance of
21:09
Speaker 4: diverse people.
21:10
Speaker 2: So I wonder if it's a generational conflict.
21:13
Speaker 4: We'll talk more about that when we come back with
21:15
Speaker 4: Scott Jacobson in Ki of Ukraine State.
21:32
Speaker 2: Now is show we are with Scott Jacobson of the
21:39
Speaker 2: Good Man Project for this Gay Week. So in Kiev
21:42
Speaker 2: it is where you are. In Russia, we have.
21:46
Speaker 4: I think a generational divide, but we don't know because
21:51
Speaker 4: we can't hear from the young people. They can't post
21:54
Speaker 4: on Instagram, they can't you know, we don't see them
21:57
Speaker 4: on Twitter or x. But then we move into Africa,
22:02
Speaker 4: which our next story is about, and all the anti
22:06
Speaker 4: gay techniques going on over there.
22:07
Speaker 2: And laws and the like.
22:09
Speaker 4: What scares me is in Africa, it's not old people
22:15
Speaker 4: out there holding the no homosexual banners. I used a
22:18
Speaker 4: Senegalese protest in my video for you Have to Be Proud,
22:22
Speaker 4: which is out now in streaming and everyone should go
22:24
Speaker 4: watch it at YouTube dot com. Forward slash really correl
22:28
Speaker 4: and it's the sign that you sent me in this
22:31
Speaker 4: ad non a lay homosexuality, which actually sounds kind of nice,
22:38
Speaker 4: but it means no gay people, no homosexuals.
22:41
Speaker 2: You know, it sounds nice but isn't. And it's young people.
22:46
Speaker 4: And that's scaring me because I have always found, as
22:51
Speaker 4: a gay man in America and other places that it's
22:56
Speaker 4: the older people that tend to be more bigoted, more
22:59
Speaker 4: hate full, more homophobic, more racist, and younger people tend
23:05
Speaker 4: to skew, you know, more diverse and more inclusive, but
23:11
Speaker 4: all of.
23:11
Speaker 2: A sudden, I don't know.
23:14
Speaker 4: Like in Russia, there are gay people in Russia and
23:18
Speaker 4: Putin's acting like they're just not there, like he can win.
23:21
Speaker 4: Putin is the ultimate exercise in feudal conversion therapy. He
23:27
Speaker 4: is out there trying to convert everyone to be not gay,
23:30
Speaker 4: and it's not working. There are still gay people, and
23:33
Speaker 4: so he thinks he can legislate them out of existence.
23:35
Speaker 4: Africa thinks they can legislate gay people out. Every country
23:40
Speaker 4: since the dawna fucking countries has thought that they could
23:43
Speaker 4: legislate gay people out of existence, and it hasn't worked.
23:48
Speaker 4: So why haven't they learned? I don't understand. Vladimir Putin
23:52
Speaker 4: has been trying to eradicate gay people in his country
23:55
Speaker 4: since he took office.
23:56
Speaker 2: Has he done it? No, You would think he'd get the.
23:59
Speaker 3: Point on other subject matter. I believe there is still
24:08
Speaker 3: the flat of society. Some sectors of society do not
24:12
Speaker 3: learn period.
24:15
Speaker 4: No, you can't fix stupid, you know, no matter the age.
24:20
Speaker 4: And this of course goes to Africa. We talk about
24:22
Speaker 4: Africa every fucking week, and people wonder why Corel, why
24:25
Speaker 4: do you talk so much about Africa. Well, the stats
24:28
Speaker 4: on Africa are overwhelming. It is quickly emerging as one
24:34
Speaker 4: of the world's biggest economies and will be the world's
24:36
Speaker 4: biggest economy within the next ten years. There is investment,
24:42
Speaker 4: crazy investment going on all over the country, you know,
24:46
Speaker 4: from American companies and of course American social organizations and
24:52
Speaker 4: churches and all that are invading Africa and have forever,
24:56
Speaker 4: you know, since the seventeen hundreds to inflict their belief
25:00
Speaker 4: on Africans. The Catholic Church certainly has a foothold there
25:04
Speaker 4: and now conservative groups, anti gay, conservative groups are flooding
25:11
Speaker 4: Africa because it is what the world's i guess, last
25:15
Speaker 4: frontier really if you think about it in terms of
25:19
Speaker 4: the population and the size, and the fact that it's
25:23
Speaker 4: very rapidly modernizing, you know, coming into which is sad
25:27
Speaker 4: for all the animals that live there.
25:29
Speaker 2: But it's very rapidly coming into the New Age.
25:32
Speaker 4: But the sad part is that as it comes into
25:35
Speaker 4: the New Age, it's bringing old age bigotries and phobia's racism, homophobia,
25:41
Speaker 4: all that it's actually bringing those with it, these draconian
25:47
Speaker 4: colonizing you know sentiments. I heard an interesting thing, Scott,
25:52
Speaker 4: and you didn't send me a story about this, and
25:54
Speaker 4: you didn't know that I was going to talk about this,
25:55
Speaker 4: But I heard an interesting thing from a black person.
25:59
Speaker 4: He was asked a question here in America by a
26:01
Speaker 4: gay black man, and he said, why are we, meaning
26:06
Speaker 4: blacks so homophobic? You know, we know what it's like
26:11
Speaker 4: to be marginalized, we know what it's like to be oppressed,
26:15
Speaker 4: and yet gay black people are afraid to come out
26:20
Speaker 4: because their culture just does not accept it. And the
26:25
Speaker 4: guy that he was asking on this panel thought, for
26:28
Speaker 4: a moment, this is very learned individual, and he said
26:32
Speaker 4: something that was really powerful, and that was that if
26:36
Speaker 4: you are black and you find yourself exhibiting racism or homophobia,
26:45
Speaker 4: what you're really exhibiting is the values and the traditions
26:51
Speaker 4: of your colonizer. You are not exhibiting the values and
26:57
Speaker 4: traditions of your people. You are exhibiting the values and
27:03
Speaker 4: traditions of your colonizer and of your captors. And that
27:09
Speaker 4: was powerful to me because, as I told you, in
27:13
Speaker 4: African culture, hundreds of years ago, gay one the thing,
27:17
Speaker 4: you know, and trans people were accepted as one spirit.
27:21
Speaker 2: People or two spirit sort of people.
27:23
Speaker 4: And then the white people got involved in Africa, and
27:27
Speaker 4: then the white people brought Africans to America, and then
27:30
Speaker 4: the African state that stayed here in America after slavery
27:35
Speaker 4: basically took on the values of their white captors. And
27:40
Speaker 4: I never really thought of it that way, but it's
27:42
Speaker 4: true they did.
27:45
Speaker 3: Yeah, they've had three issues staying up a long way
27:52
Speaker 3: in different two successive waves, and then one more perennial.
27:58
Speaker 3: So like they have their traditional list superstitions, that's part
28:03
Speaker 3: one that still are contemporaneous but sort of warped or disappearing. First,
28:10
Speaker 3: the second case you've already just mentioned, which is European
28:13
Speaker 3: Christian colonialism, and the third is Arab Muslim colonialism. And
28:21
Speaker 3: a good indicator if you look at the most populous
28:24
Speaker 3: nation in Africa, it's Nigeria on the north, Muslim on
28:29
Speaker 3: the south, Christian on the middle belt a lot of death.
28:36
Speaker 4: I'm typing in we're Muslims historically anti LGBTQ because I
28:44
Speaker 4: think even they.
28:47
Speaker 2: Are getting it wrong now.
28:49
Speaker 4: I think modern day Muslims that are anti gay are
28:52
Speaker 4: actually getting it wrong. I think early Muslims were less
28:56
Speaker 4: concerned about gay. Historically, the relationship between Islamic societies and
29:01
Speaker 4: same sex desires with complex and vary, differing significantly from
29:06
Speaker 4: the rigid, politicized opposition scene in many modern day complex contexts.
29:12
Speaker 4: Classic Islamic laws strictly prohibited same sex sexual.
29:16
Speaker 2: Act doing none as a major sin, but pre.
29:19
Speaker 4: Modern Muslim societies frequently oakshadah.
29:23
Speaker 6: It's broadcasting from a completely different point of view. Yours
29:29
Speaker 6: listen daily to the corell cast, done your favorite streaming service.
29:40
Speaker 6: You're listening to the corell cast driving you home or
29:45
Speaker 6: driving you crazy. It's broadcasting from a completely different point
29:50
Speaker 6: of view. Yours listen daily to the corell cast, done
29:55
Speaker 6: your favorite streaming service. You're listening to the corelle cast
30:07
Speaker 6: driving you home or driving you crazy?
30:12
Speaker 4: No, so I was right, and Scott Jacobson as my
30:21
Speaker 4: guest for doing this Gay Week.
30:22
Speaker 2: On Thursday, August.
30:23
Speaker 4: Twentieth, the Quran recounts the story of Lot and that
30:28
Speaker 4: put into mainstream Islamic jurisprudence interprets as a condemnation of
30:32
Speaker 4: male to male sexual intercourse, even though we now know
30:35
Speaker 4: the translations of that Old Testament and Lot are wrong translations.
30:42
Speaker 4: It was not male to male sex that they were condemning.
30:44
Speaker 4: It was male older to male younger, meaning pedophilia is
30:50
Speaker 4: what they were condemning. Classical legal Now, classical legal codes
30:56
Speaker 4: prescribed severe penalties for sodomy, but the burden of proof
31:00
Speaker 4: under Sharia was so high that judicial prosecution was very rare,
31:05
Speaker 4: and historians note that private behaviors were largely overlooked unless
31:12
Speaker 4: they violated public order or involved non consensual acts such
31:16
Speaker 4: as rape, allowing a degree of tactic social acceptance and
31:21
Speaker 4: turning a blind eye in various areas to LGBTQ people.
31:26
Speaker 4: This is exactly what I meant. Early Muslims, they gay
31:32
Speaker 4: wasn't a thing. They just it's like they just looked away.
31:35
Speaker 4: They didn't as long as it wasn't overly overt and
31:39
Speaker 4: you know, they wouldn't have tolerated a pride festival, but
31:42
Speaker 4: they they weren't eager to prosecute it. And then it's
31:47
Speaker 4: in poetry and literature from a century onward. Islamic literary
31:52
Speaker 4: traditions in Arabic, Persian, and Turkish frequently and openly featured
31:57
Speaker 4: homo erotic themes, romantic love for male youth and celebration
32:02
Speaker 4: of same sex attraction so there's a lot of Muslim
32:05
Speaker 4: literature where they actually celebrate same sex. So again I
32:12
Speaker 4: think modern religion, both Christian and Muslim, gets it wrong.
32:18
Speaker 4: Up until recently it wasn't a thing. And then we
32:22
Speaker 4: of course now go to Africa where there is a
32:26
Speaker 4: huge rise and in the headline it sums it up
32:31
Speaker 4: what we've talked about here. Experts say harsher legislation is
32:35
Speaker 4: driven by political scapegoating. We just talked about that even
32:38
Speaker 4: in Russia, anti Western backlash and US conservative groups. The
32:48
Speaker 4: US is exporting gay hatred to Africa, and Africa is
32:53
Speaker 4: receptive to it because of the money and the resources
32:58
Speaker 4: that come with those groups. So these gay groups, these
33:02
Speaker 4: anti gay groups are going over to Africa, they're saying,
33:05
Speaker 4: you know, hate gay people, legislate against them and will
33:09
Speaker 4: give you X y Z, And so they do.
33:12
Speaker 3: It, and it's either coming from non governmental resources or
33:19
Speaker 3: literal church tithes some percent of that and then getting
33:23
Speaker 3: shuttled over to influence. And that's in the string point.
33:27
Speaker 3: There is a bit of a symmetry with that anti Western,
33:35
Speaker 3: hyper traditionalist stance that the Rest Federation is taking in
33:39
Speaker 3: labeling them the LGBT organization extremist and LGBT propaganda when
33:45
Speaker 3: they're in the same way that people will be looking
33:49
Speaker 3: at LGBT cultural positive influence as Western cultural.
33:55
Speaker 4: Why say that the West has not been overly accepting
33:59
Speaker 4: of LGBTQ people, You know, I mean quite frankly, Europe
34:03
Speaker 4: has excelled more than we have.
34:04
Speaker 2: So are they considering Europe.
34:06
Speaker 3: The West and not every European country? No, not all
34:10
Speaker 3: the time.
34:11
Speaker 4: No, but you know country Amsterdam, Switzerland, Sweden, you know, Norway, Finland, Spain, certainly, Greece,
34:20
Speaker 4: the birthplace allegedly of US Sapphos and the Lyle of
34:27
Speaker 4: Lesbos and Mikonos for gay men, allegedly. So I don't
34:34
Speaker 4: understand European values are more pro gay than American. We
34:41
Speaker 4: were not accepted in seventeen seventy six. We were called dandies.
34:45
Speaker 4: We were made fun of, you know, I mean, yankee
34:48
Speaker 4: doodle dan.
34:48
Speaker 3: Imagine that being the insults of the time.
34:51
Speaker 2: Oh, I know, Oh he's a dan dye. Well, yes
34:54
Speaker 2: I am.
34:56
Speaker 3: You're right now, you'd say.
34:57
Speaker 2: Yes, I yeah, Well yankee doodle dandy.
35:03
Speaker 4: They're trying to call the guy a feminine because he
35:06
Speaker 4: won't go serve in the war uh and with about an.
35:10
Speaker 2: American in the UK. We'll be right back.
35:12
Speaker 4: But the song was written about Americans in the UK
35:15
Speaker 4: and they thought we were all gay.
35:16
Speaker 5: If you're not visiting really Corell dot com daily, you're
35:20
Speaker 5: missing out. Get the podcast videos and the blug including
35:24
Speaker 5: recipes at reallycorrell dot com. That's really ka r e
35:28
Speaker 5: l dot com.
35:31
Speaker 1: Show Time is here. No time to fear Corell is
35:35
Speaker 1: so near because show time is here. So on with
35:39
Speaker 1: the show. Let's give it a go. Correll is the
35:43
Speaker 1: one that you need to know.
35:47
Speaker 4: Yeah, So, Yankee Doodle started as a seventeen fifty five
35:50
Speaker 4: insult song written by a British army doctor to mock
35:55
Speaker 4: the crude, unsophisticated American colonist. Yankee was used by the
36:01
Speaker 4: Brits as a contemptuous label for the Americans. Doodle is
36:06
Speaker 4: an Old European slang word meaning a fool or a
36:09
Speaker 4: simpleton or a country bumpkin, and dandy is a man
36:13
Speaker 4: who overly concerned with his clothes and appearance, trying too
36:17
Speaker 4: hard to look stylish, and of course, when they said
36:20
Speaker 4: and called it, macaroni. Macaroni was an eighteenth century fashion
36:25
Speaker 4: term for ostentatious high society fop who wore massive, extravagant
36:31
Speaker 4: Italian style wigs and flashy European clothes.
36:35
Speaker 2: Read gay, so.
36:38
Speaker 3: Fops and dandies right, these are great words meant for
36:43
Speaker 3: ill effect, but in and of themselves they sound like
36:48
Speaker 3: the words like goofy like they have a great sound
36:51
Speaker 3: to them.
36:53
Speaker 4: So basically they were calling American soldiers gay is basically
36:58
Speaker 4: what they were saying. Essentially, they were saying ulus meimple
37:04
Speaker 4: mindedness of the American soldier. The British were essentially singing
37:08
Speaker 4: that a naive country hick was so clueless about true
37:11
Speaker 4: fashion and high society that he thought putting on a
37:14
Speaker 4: simple plane feather in his hat made him.
37:17
Speaker 2: Look like a fancy, high class European dandie.
37:21
Speaker 3: And these shaming tactics I probably have been found throughout
37:24
Speaker 3: time to get men to go be willing to die off.
37:27
Speaker 3: Yep uh, And.
37:31
Speaker 2: I mean also yeah, but it isn't isn't it?
37:34
Speaker 4: Isn't it just ironic that people who wore wigs and
37:38
Speaker 4: make men. Wigs were invented for men. Makeup was invented
37:42
Speaker 4: for men because women didn't count. Lipstick was invented by
37:46
Speaker 4: the Egyptians to show that your lips were ready to
37:48
Speaker 4: receive a penis. But other than that's what that's where
37:52
Speaker 4: lipstick came from. Lipstick was invented that the Egyptians would
37:56
Speaker 4: put red coloring on their lips to show that they
37:58
Speaker 4: were available for oral sex. That's what lipstick means. That's
38:03
Speaker 4: why it was invented. But the other makeup, I makeup
38:06
Speaker 4: and all that was invented for men, the male pharaohs.
38:09
Speaker 4: The women just didn't matter, you know, And Wiggs invented
38:14
Speaker 4: for men. And so these people, certainly not the height
38:18
Speaker 4: of masculinity, are going to criticize others and talk about
38:23
Speaker 4: being It goes back to who you mentioned, Pete Heggsbirth
38:27
Speaker 4: or Hegsbirth or whatever. I really don't know his last name.
38:29
Speaker 4: It's like Heggs something. I call him Pentagon, Pete Pentagon.
38:34
Speaker 4: Pete thinks he is epitomizing male manliness. And I will
38:40
Speaker 4: tell you right now, he looks like almost every gay
38:45
Speaker 4: Instagram follower that there is. That's why I call him
38:49
Speaker 4: a holebrosexual. He acts like a wholebrosexual, he looks like
38:54
Speaker 4: a wholebrosexual, he talks like a wholebrosexual. And yet he
39:00
Speaker 4: thinks he is the epitome of male and that's just
39:05
Speaker 4: really sad.
39:07
Speaker 2: So, yes, Africa, we have got a situation.
39:10
Speaker 4: It's really a critical Russia and Africa are critical when
39:18
Speaker 4: it comes to LGBTQ rights right now, and we need
39:22
Speaker 4: a country like the US to step in and calm
39:26
Speaker 4: this down. But the opposite is happening. The US is
39:30
Speaker 4: encouraging this kind of behavior. And so it's frightening for
39:36
Speaker 4: me because when I think of gay Russians or gay Africans,
39:41
Speaker 4: they are still living in a world where death and
39:45
Speaker 4: imprisonment is on the table every day. Here in America,
39:50
Speaker 4: Whi's going backwards. It's not good. There is violence against US.
39:53
Speaker 4: Trans people are dying in record numbers. I'm not saying
39:56
Speaker 4: that it's but it's still better than that. And it's
40:01
Speaker 4: scary to me that now we have two very large
40:06
Speaker 4: one nation and another a whole continent of nations where
40:11
Speaker 4: it is increasingly getting hard to be gay, and India
40:16
Speaker 4: is still struggling with LGBTQ rights. We make some advances
40:21
Speaker 4: there and then we get setbacks and then.
40:24
Speaker 3: You know, very complicated country, yeah, and.
40:28
Speaker 4: Also very divert Like you said, in religion, you know,
40:30
Speaker 4: some of them are Hindi or Hindu and Muslim, and
40:33
Speaker 4: there's some Christians. So it's just scary that the biggest
40:38
Speaker 4: land masses in the world, Russia Africa, are turning so
40:42
Speaker 4: anti gay when historically it wasn't that way. Even in
40:46
Speaker 4: Russia before Putin under Gorbachev and stuff, gays, he had
40:51
Speaker 4: other fish to fry, you know, he there are other issues.
40:56
Speaker 4: There was a Cold War going on, and there was
40:58
Speaker 4: oil problems and all that. But now it seems that
41:02
Speaker 4: Putin is obsessed with it. So you know what that means, right,
41:07
Speaker 4: that he's a closeted gay.
41:11
Speaker 3: That's usually what I thought those meant for.
41:13
Speaker 7: Mike Pence, Well, hello, I mean he calls he calls
41:18
Speaker 7: his wife mother creepy, creepy.
41:23
Speaker 3: That's just strange to me.
41:26
Speaker 2: But yeah, sleep with your mother, Well, obviously he was.
41:30
Speaker 3: I only had three points of big picture to add
41:33
Speaker 3: to this in terms of that sort of more specified
41:35
Speaker 3: comment to the age gave one and two are connected.
41:41
Speaker 3: A lot of this stuff has almost nothing to do
41:47
Speaker 3: with the other person, simply in terms of who you
41:50
Speaker 3: love public private, and what you do in the bedroom.
41:53
Speaker 3: What does the matter to you? That's part one, Part two,
41:56
Speaker 3: which is the third point. But I don't see acceptance
42:03
Speaker 3: and equality for gay people GPTI plus as a Western value.
42:09
Speaker 3: I see it as a just a value of equality
42:12
Speaker 3: that you just see propped up in different sectors of
42:15
Speaker 3: the world throughout time. And in some areas of time
42:18
Speaker 3: you see you do see it get institutionalized, like in
42:22
Speaker 3: parts of the EU or the U when but broadly
42:26
Speaker 3: you can see this as you're noting about sort of
42:29
Speaker 3: pre European and Christian colonialism. In parts of Africa, you
42:35
Speaker 3: had a lot more acceptance. I mean had two spiriteds
42:37
Speaker 3: from me.
42:37
Speaker 4: And yeah, no, it's odd because while we didn't have
42:41
Speaker 4: legal and I want to be clear about that, we
42:44
Speaker 4: did not have even here in America in the Old West,
42:47
Speaker 4: we did not have legal acceptance. But being gay was
42:50
Speaker 4: not that big of a fucking deal. Cowboys had sex
42:53
Speaker 4: with each other all the freaking time. You know, they're
42:55
Speaker 4: a way there are all these cattle film broke Back Mountain. Hello.
42:58
Speaker 4: You know they're out on these cattle runs. There's no
43:00
Speaker 4: women around for months, you know they a guy's got
43:05
Speaker 4: to do what a guy's got to do. And in
43:07
Speaker 4: the seventeen hundreds and sixteen hundreds and eighteen hundreds, It
43:11
Speaker 4: wasn't that big of a deal. Now, granted, gay people
43:13
Speaker 4: were not out marching for rights, and they weren't out
43:15
Speaker 4: demanding equality. I think as gay peoples, I think the
43:22
Speaker 4: root of all of this in Russia and Africa and
43:25
Speaker 4: here in America is that straight people in power were
43:31
Speaker 4: fine with gay people as long as they were out
43:34
Speaker 4: of sight, out of mind, you know, didn't talk about it.
43:38
Speaker 4: There is a plausibility you know, didn't see it, didn't
43:41
Speaker 4: talk about it. Then gay people got tired of oppression,
43:47
Speaker 4: of not having equal rights, of not being able to
43:49
Speaker 4: get married, especially during ages in the eighties where we
43:53
Speaker 4: could have our whole life taken from us because a
43:56
Speaker 4: family swoops in because we have no legal right to
43:59
Speaker 4: the house we're living in because we shared it with
44:01
Speaker 4: our partner and we couldn't legally be married. So they
44:04
Speaker 4: would throw gay people out into the streets. So then
44:07
Speaker 4: gay marriage became crucial, and that's what really started the
44:10
Speaker 4: gay marriage movement in the United States.
44:12
Speaker 2: Is aids.
44:13
Speaker 4: Gay men were not just sitting around going gee, I'd
44:15
Speaker 4: love to be married, That's the last thing on our minds.
44:19
Speaker 4: But because we were getting rights denied because of AIDS.
44:23
Speaker 4: Suddenly we knew the only way through that was marriage,
44:27
Speaker 4: and that's where marriage.
44:28
Speaker 2: Equality came from. And lesbians of course benefit from that
44:32
Speaker 2: as well.
44:34
Speaker 4: But it wasn't until we started speaking up and demanding
44:41
Speaker 4: rights that the anti gay backlash started in earnest In
44:47
Speaker 4: other words, when we were out of sight, out of mind,
44:50
Speaker 4: when we weren't demanding equality, when we were just being
44:54
Speaker 4: quiet and cowering, straight people were fine with us. We
45:00
Speaker 4: suddenly wanted to be open as teachers, and wanted to
45:04
Speaker 4: be open as at work, and wanted to be open
45:08
Speaker 4: in our lives and have our identities recognized.
45:13
Speaker 2: That's when people started having a problem with us.
45:17
Speaker 3: There is an analogous case, you see that with commentaries
45:20
Speaker 3: around the community. You've probably got these similar responses of
45:24
Speaker 3: I'm okay that you do not believe in God? Why
45:27
Speaker 3: do you have to be so vocal about it?
45:31
Speaker 8: Right?
45:31
Speaker 3: It's the same kind of sentiments.
45:32
Speaker 4: But they're not understanding that as Christians, they're more vocal
45:36
Speaker 4: about their belief in God. You know, I would like
45:40
Speaker 4: to return that statement around. I don't care if someone
45:42
Speaker 4: believes in God, I just don't want them to be
45:44
Speaker 4: vocal about it because I think they're insane, and I
45:47
Speaker 4: think trying to put it in schools and you know,
45:50
Speaker 4: crosses on the walls, and I think that's insane.
45:54
Speaker 2: It's just shows up.
45:56
Speaker 3: To your doors in the United States, Johoe's Witnesses.
45:59
Speaker 4: Yes, that's it. Not Jews, not Muslims, not Catholics at beaches.
46:09
Speaker 2: Well, in airports too, Yeah, well they used to be
46:11
Speaker 2: at airports.
46:12
Speaker 4: It was a big joke. At airports. They'd be they're
46:14
Speaker 4: bald with their tambourines. Harry Harry, Harry Krishna.
46:18
Speaker 2: I was just watching it.
46:18
Speaker 4: It's funny you bring them up. I was just watching
46:20
Speaker 4: a Charles Manson thing on Netflix. The Charles Manson taped
46:23
Speaker 4: It's a New Show on Netflix. I had no idea
46:26
Speaker 4: he wrote a song that the Beach Boys sang. I
46:28
Speaker 4: had no idea that Charles Manson wrote a song that.
46:31
Speaker 2: The Beach Boys ended up singing.
46:33
Speaker 4: I just because Dennis Wilson, one of the Beach Boys,
46:36
Speaker 4: knew Charles Manson, and Manson fancied himself a rock star,
46:41
Speaker 4: and he wrote music and Dennis Wilson liked the song,
46:46
Speaker 4: so he bought it from Charles Manson. Changed the title,
46:50
Speaker 4: changed a few of the lyrics put the byeline as him,
46:54
Speaker 4: written by Dennis Wilson, and recorded it. Manson got so
46:58
Speaker 4: pissed he put the Beach Boys on his kill lip.
47:01
Speaker 3: That's how I'm just hearing the Adams Family song in
47:03
Speaker 3: my head. Friends and family.
47:08
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, No, now that I'm watching that show.
47:10
Speaker 4: I lived through all of that. You know, and and
47:14
Speaker 4: I and yet I'm learning more now than when you
47:18
Speaker 4: know and and The ireny here is we look at
47:20
Speaker 4: Charles Manson as one of the greatest killers of all time.
47:22
Speaker 4: He never killed anybody ever. Charles Manson never actually himself
47:29
Speaker 4: killed anybody. He had his followers do it for him,
47:34
Speaker 4: which is very weird as well.
47:37
Speaker 2: So the World Tennis Association.
47:44
Speaker 4: I don't know that I can do this story with
47:45
Speaker 4: a straight face. I really don't. The w t A
47:49
Speaker 4: has being called upon to drop their sex testing policy.
47:53
Speaker 4: They're testing for the s r Y gene, which helps
47:57
Speaker 4: in determining biological sex and be be conducted via a
48:01
Speaker 4: cheek swab. They're doing this to make sure that women
48:04
Speaker 4: tennis players are women and that male tennis players are male,
48:08
Speaker 4: But they're really doing this as an anti trans rule,
48:17
Speaker 4: you know, Martina Navrachilova is not trans, but that is
48:21
Speaker 4: a fucking butcher's dyke I have ever seen in my life.
48:24
Speaker 2: You know, she is like one penis short of being
48:27
Speaker 2: a guy.
48:28
Speaker 4: And you know the notion that tennis women's tennis has
48:35
Speaker 4: a problem with butch women or trans women. I mean,
48:38
Speaker 4: Rosie O'Donnell is subbing for Jimmy Kimmel, and she just
48:42
Speaker 4: talked about how they're now doing brand new a national
48:47
Speaker 4: women's Baseball League. Again, they haven't done it since the
48:51
Speaker 4: nineteen forties, so it's the first one in eighty six years.
48:55
Speaker 4: And even Rosie said, and it will be the biggest
48:58
Speaker 4: lesbian fest that you've ever seen in her entire life. Well,
49:02
Speaker 4: it's the same with World Tennis. You know, it's the
49:06
Speaker 4: same with World Tennis. She's doing a great job on
49:08
Speaker 4: Jimmy Kimmel. They expect her to be anti Trump the
49:11
Speaker 4: entire time.
49:12
Speaker 2: She's not.
49:13
Speaker 4: She does do Trump jokes, but most of it is
49:16
Speaker 4: her adapting to life as a mom and her adapting
49:18
Speaker 4: to life in Dublin. And it's funny and you're reminded
49:21
Speaker 4: why she was the queen of daytime TV and why
49:24
Speaker 4: she was a great stand up comedian because she's fucking funny.
49:29
Speaker 4: So yeah, but you know she said it was gonna
49:31
Speaker 4: be a lesbian fest. Well, World Tennis women's tennis is
49:36
Speaker 4: a lesbian fest. I mean, come on, it is uh
49:40
Speaker 4: and the notion that trans women shouldn't now Martina is
49:43
Speaker 4: for this, by the way, Martina Navarateilona, an out lesbian,
49:48
Speaker 4: wants women to be tested to make sure they're not
49:50
Speaker 4: trans because she doesn't want to compete against trans women. Martina,
49:54
Speaker 4: a lesbian, is turning on her own people. And she
49:58
Speaker 4: said it's because if they trans positioned after puberty, their
50:02
Speaker 4: legs are longer, their arms are longer, their body frame
50:05
Speaker 4: is bigger. This is from a woman who looks like
50:07
Speaker 4: a man, but their their body frame is bigger. And
50:12
Speaker 4: she doesn't want to compete again, Well.
50:13
Speaker 2: She won't. She has cancer. She's dying, Martina, and Nevertelliva.
50:17
Speaker 4: But it's odd that that she supports a trans band
50:21
Speaker 4: in women's tennis being a leg by all right, we're
50:27
Speaker 4: gonna finish up with Scott right after this. We're doing
50:30
Speaker 4: this Gay Week. We have a couple more stories that
50:32
Speaker 4: we're gonna get you every more of a roundtable this week,
50:34
Speaker 4: and I like it but we'll be back to finish
50:37
Speaker 4: up with it a few more KI stories.
50:40
Speaker 2: Hopefully it's no bomb balls, Hoping.
50:43
Speaker 4: He doesn't have to run and duck and cover. Stay,
51:01
Speaker 4: no it show, all right, Scott Jacobson is back with us.
51:12
Speaker 4: Hold on just a second, I'm postponing another interview.
51:15
Speaker 2: There we go.
51:16
Speaker 4: So, Scott, you picked a story because I've been dominating
51:19
Speaker 4: the conversation. I'm sorry, I'm a Chattie Kathy today. Well
51:24
Speaker 4: today did you always talk today?
51:29
Speaker 2: Today? Gone, Carter.
51:36
Speaker 3: I think we I think we should go right into
51:39
Speaker 3: the ship thick of it. So in Senegal they have
51:45
Speaker 3: basically anal examinations for women, so they have no scientific basis.
51:53
Speaker 3: They're used to determine sexual conduct and have long been
51:57
Speaker 3: condemned as degrading and abusive. So they're being applied to detainees,
52:01
Speaker 3: including women, and it illustrates criminalization, sort of builds on
52:07
Speaker 3: pseudo medical examinations, which are just humiliation via.
52:13
Speaker 4: You know, when the Rwandan debacle was happening, they did
52:23
Speaker 4: this to women as well. They examined them to see
52:25
Speaker 4: if they were pure or if they were virgins, and
52:27
Speaker 4: if they were found not to be, they actually would
52:32
Speaker 4: rape them with machetes, you know, and mutilate their genitalia
52:37
Speaker 4: and all of that. I read the story and I
52:44
Speaker 4: got worried. And let me tell you as we as
52:47
Speaker 4: we leave with this today, you sitting in an area
52:50
Speaker 4: where there's bombing going on. I know that all of
52:55
Speaker 4: the things we talk about here, what you're going through
52:58
Speaker 4: there in war, it isn't new. You know, there's been
53:01
Speaker 4: war since there's been tribes, and there's been anti gay
53:05
Speaker 4: or anti anti them sentiments since the dawn of time.
53:11
Speaker 4: But I worry that we're starting to excel at cruelty.
53:19
Speaker 4: We are really perfecting the art of cruelty. Anal examinations
53:25
Speaker 4: on women in Senegal is one of the cruelest things
53:29
Speaker 4: I have ever heard, and that any nation would allow
53:35
Speaker 4: that to occur, that other nations know that this is
53:40
Speaker 4: happening and don't step in to stop it. So not
53:46
Speaker 4: only are we excelling at cruelty these days here in
53:49
Speaker 4: this country, we delight in cruelty in this country. Now,
53:52
Speaker 4: the meaner someone is, the more we edify them. But
53:57
Speaker 4: across the globe being just people delighting in being cruel
54:05
Speaker 4: what Putin is doing to Ukraine is cruel He has
54:09
Speaker 4: no reason for this.
54:11
Speaker 2: He doesn't need the Ukraine. You know, this is strictly
54:14
Speaker 2: his ego.
54:15
Speaker 4: He wants it back because it was once his, you know,
54:19
Speaker 4: and that's it's cruel. And what they're doing in Senegal
54:23
Speaker 4: to women or the seventy one men who were just
54:25
Speaker 4: arrested for.
54:26
Speaker 2: Being gay is cruel.
54:28
Speaker 4: It's cruel, and it appears that we're not as as
54:33
Speaker 4: we're in twenty twenty six. We're almost a quarter of
54:36
Speaker 4: a century into the twenty first century, and we're not
54:41
Speaker 4: evolving beyond cruelness. We're actually perfecting it. And that's what
54:45
Speaker 4: scares me about all of these stories is that we
54:49
Speaker 4: seem to be perfecting the art of cruelty. I mean,
54:57
Speaker 4: you know, I know, what can you really say? Because
54:59
Speaker 4: it's true, you know what you're going through there with
55:03
Speaker 4: the people of Ukraine are going through on a daily
55:05
Speaker 4: The fact that you guys have become numb to war,
55:09
Speaker 4: I mean, that's you know, and we've become numb to
55:15
Speaker 4: these gay stories that we hear every week.
55:18
Speaker 2: You and I have come out here every.
55:19
Speaker 4: Week and just one of these stories should be appalling
55:22
Speaker 4: enough to get global action, you know, just one, and
55:26
Speaker 4: yet another week now they're anally raping or anally examining,
55:34
Speaker 4: you know, women in Senegal, and for what for what?
55:37
Speaker 4: There's nothing an anus is going to tell you about
55:39
Speaker 4: that woman except whether she eats enough fiber, you know,
55:43
Speaker 4: And so it's just they're just doing it to be cruel.
55:47
Speaker 2: That's the sad part.
55:51
Speaker 3: So it's a denial of reality, and you start making
55:54
Speaker 3: fake solutions and then delegitimizing actual institutions that can and do,
56:01
Speaker 3: maybe not necessarily the right thing all the time, but
56:03
Speaker 3: more often than not the right thing. So defunding or
56:07
Speaker 3: reduced funding or to support the United Nations, denigrating publicly
56:13
Speaker 3: and speeches to the United Nations, building this Board of
56:18
Speaker 3: Peace to try to compete, but then comprise it full
56:23
Speaker 3: of warmongers, theocrats, authoritarians, and lunatics. So you have this
56:30
Speaker 3: type of movement ongoing. The only thing I think analogous
56:33
Speaker 3: that happened before this period that was really aligned with
56:39
Speaker 3: that was basically industrial level war, where you could really
56:43
Speaker 3: make the killing of people efficient.
56:47
Speaker 4: And that's what makes me sad. We're becoming very efficient
56:53
Speaker 4: at hatred and at cruelty. I mean, what we're doing
56:58
Speaker 4: here in this country with ice, the detention centers and
57:02
Speaker 4: you know, literally putting people away in these centers.
57:07
Speaker 2: That it's cruel. It's just what we're.
57:09
Speaker 4: Doing, rounding them up, tackling them, terrifying them, ripping them
57:14
Speaker 4: away from their families, putting them in detention centers. When
57:18
Speaker 4: all of this should be handled civilly and by the courts.
57:22
Speaker 3: It's sending them to other countries. Yeah, I just saw
57:25
Speaker 3: that judicial systems.
57:26
Speaker 2: I just saw that.
57:27
Speaker 3: And then clearing your hands of any responsibility or accountability.
57:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's cruel.
57:35
Speaker 4: I hope that one week we get to come out
57:38
Speaker 4: and have a this gay week where it's nothing but
57:41
Speaker 4: joyous stories where you know.
57:45
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, yeah, we could pick.
57:46
Speaker 4: But what I mean is I hope that the mood
57:50
Speaker 4: changes globally. And I know it's not going to happen instantly,
57:56
Speaker 4: but I.
57:57
Speaker 2: Hope that more and more we see.
58:00
Speaker 4: More good than bad. You know, That's that's what I hope.
58:05
Speaker 4: I keep hoping. I'm not sure it's gonna happen, but
58:08
Speaker 4: I keep hoping.
58:10
Speaker 3: All right, well, is not normative, it is aspirational.
58:15
Speaker 7: You need to.
58:18
Speaker 4: You know, you need to stay safe. I don't like
58:24
Speaker 4: to hear that you are considering going more dangerous places.
58:27
Speaker 2: But it's your job, so yeah, I don't like to
58:31
Speaker 2: hear it.
58:32
Speaker 4: If we were married, you would not be going more dangerously.
58:40
Speaker 2: But I guess you don't wear.
58:43
Speaker 3: A lot of conf The universal answer is you're fucking crazy.
58:52
Speaker 2: Well you warn about it, we'll get back on.
58:58
Speaker 5: Listen daily to the Corella Cast on your favorite dreaming
59:03
Speaker 5: but you die tomorrow.
59:09
Speaker 8: You're listening to the Corel Cast driving you home, driving crazy.
59:17
Speaker 2: From a completely different.
59:19
Speaker 6: Point of view yours, listen to the Corel Cast on
59:24
Speaker 6: your favorite streaming service.
59:27
Speaker 3: Right, So that's probably aside the corp